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Use Claws products as directed runs after use if in

1:00

contact with food service. Grammar

1:08

Girl here. It's Mignon Fogarty and

1:10

today I have an interview with

1:12

Eli Bernstein, author of the Dictionary

1:14

of Fine Distinctions, that looks at

1:16

words with close meanings like, what

1:18

is the actual difference between a

1:20

street, an avenue, and a drive,

1:23

stock, and broth, a maze,

1:25

and a labyrinth. His

1:27

work has been featured in The New Yorker,

1:29

McSweeney's, and more. Eli,

1:34

thank you so much for being here. Oh

1:37

my pleasure, thanks for having me. You

1:39

bet. So you know the thing that surprised

1:42

me most about your book as I was

1:44

reading it is that there was

1:46

so much in it that I didn't know. You know

1:48

I would think that a book about words, I

1:51

would know those things, but I didn't. So why

1:53

don't you give people sort of the

1:56

big picture of what the book is about and

1:58

what inspired you to write it? Sure.

2:01

Well, first let me say that makes two

2:03

of us in terms of distinctions I didn't

2:05

know before going in, which was what made

2:07

the project such a treat. It allowed me

2:09

to teach myself a lot. As

2:12

for why I wrote the book, well, first let me say

2:15

what the book is about. So it's

2:17

called Dictionary Find Distinctions. As

2:19

the title suggests, it's a collection of objects,

2:22

ideas, words, natural phenomena that are commonly confused

2:24

or that we didn't even know there was

2:27

a difference between it. There is a difference

2:29

between in the first place. So

2:31

nuance is subtle to use things like that.

2:34

As for how I came to write the

2:36

book, there's actually a backstory there, which is

2:38

that my girlfriend would often make fun of

2:41

me for not being able to tell the

2:43

difference between colors that are slightly different from

2:45

one another. So I would

2:47

often confuse maroon and

2:49

burgundy or fuchsia and magenta, lilac and

2:52

lavender and so on and so forth.

2:54

And I thought to spare myself future

2:56

embarrassment, I'd make a study of it.

3:00

And pretty quickly, I realized that colors

3:02

were just the tip of the iceberg

3:04

in terms of the kind of things

3:07

that I commonly confused or that I

3:09

didn't even realize there was a difference

3:11

between. And then I was off to the

3:13

races. Of course, the irony is

3:15

actually that the book is in black and

3:18

white. So those entries on color will have

3:20

to wait for a future edition. And

3:24

aside magenta is one of my favorite

3:26

stories. It comes from the Battle of

3:29

Magenta because the color was chemically

3:31

made around the time of this great battle. Yes,

3:35

in fact, so that was the one thorough

3:38

entry on color that I did write. So

3:40

I came across that in my own research,

3:42

but alas, it did not make it to

3:44

the final cut. Yeah, well, there's

3:46

so much. I mean, the book is meaty, you

3:48

know, there's a lot there. So, and

3:51

speaking of meaty, let's start with the food words. There

3:55

were a few that caught my eye about food

3:57

that I didn't know. So I grew up In

3:59

the World. The Annals I've been drinking coffee, you

4:02

know, Since. I was a child.

4:04

Maybe another child visit? A set of skills and

4:06

I always says get a latte like it's is

4:08

what I've always done. I'm a latte girl. Fit

4:10

the hate. What? What would be

4:12

different if I got a cappuccino or a

4:14

flat white? I mean as a satellite? It's

4:16

embarrassing, I don't know the difference.

4:19

Yeah well, I wouldn't blame yourself

4:21

because these things are kind of

4:23

slippery and with you constantly evolve

4:25

so it is hard to pin

4:27

down and even if you do

4:30

and it's it's going to change

4:32

ah with times and and actually

4:34

surprisingly be surprised readers that are

4:36

that's one of my longest entries.

4:38

you would think something a little

4:41

more substantial might get more are

4:43

a higher workout. But yeah, the

4:45

difference between a latte. A slob

4:47

white, a cappuccino, and a core

4:49

todos ended up taking a while

4:51

to really pinned down. And

4:54

in particular the difference between a flat

4:56

white and a cappuccino. Both of them

4:58

contain steam, tamil and espressos and both

5:00

of them are smaller than Lot Hayes

5:02

and bigger than Core Todos the Weekend

5:04

And a knock those two off their

5:06

the to extremes Montes of the Milky

5:09

Just or Todos in There are the

5:11

smallest, in the strongest and the answers

5:13

to the defeat a cappuccino on a

5:15

flight. Why is it really depends on

5:17

the location. Some coffee shops will treat

5:19

them as identical. some of them might

5:21

not even have one of the other,

5:23

but. Where's the difference does exist is

5:26

usually does that. The Cupertino is a

5:28

bit area that's about it so they

5:30

will. They will erase the milk a

5:32

little bit more it's and the result

5:34

is a state like your texture and

5:36

because you use a little bit less

5:39

milk. In an equivalent of

5:41

sized cities might be a bit stronger two outs.

5:43

It's amazing how long you have to speak to

5:45

get to the heart of it's ah but it

5:47

does get quite technical and it was. It was

5:50

fun actually it's one of the few and trees

5:52

where I did a little bit of sealed research

5:54

and by that I mean I spoke to you

5:56

know it doesn't or or more pieces as I

5:58

went about my day. How can

6:01

we make less than they did? You do

6:03

research, has the opportunity to you know, check

6:05

it out as many times Success? Absolutely. I

6:07

mean I I'm a big drink a coffee

6:10

drinker for just started to pigeons. So. Did

6:12

you have a new favorite after you did all

6:14

this research, did you switch your drinking or the

6:16

dude stick with what you would? While.

6:18

Ah of hopefully this is it does

6:20

get to discredit me, but I've heard

6:23

black coffee, so I usually drip drip

6:25

or filter coffee or americanos. so this

6:27

is more for my own curiosity saipan

6:29

than for my own drinking. although I

6:31

will adults as in the odd milk

6:33

drink and I would probably get a

6:36

flower. Of hangs and in

6:38

a subtle leads us to throw the

6:40

bigger picture question because I was wondering

6:42

what is your sort of general philosophy

6:44

is about these nuanced differences between words

6:46

because as you said it can vary

6:49

depending on location of where there somewhere

6:51

you felt like he ended up not

6:53

including them because the distinction wasn't as

6:55

strong as you thought are like what

6:57

what is it take to make the

6:59

cut for you to say in And

7:01

these things are different enough that I

7:04

want to include them in the blood.

7:07

Yeah, that's a good question. I would

7:09

say that the short answer as to

7:11

what merited inclusion is whether or not

7:13

interested me. So is it is ultimately

7:16

yeah I'm idiosyncratic west but readers will

7:18

find that be er difficulty level of

7:20

and we berries and of course it

7:22

will vary from person to person. So

7:24

what one person might find subtle others

7:26

might argue that for that fine of

7:29

a distinction. So to give an example

7:31

Ah, the difference between Great Britain and

7:33

the United Kingdom at the go on

7:35

trips would say that. Sonos bites

7:37

it visibly. many others around the world

7:39

either I kind of mix them up

7:41

or they don't even realize there is

7:43

a difference. And on the other extreme,

7:45

we have something like the difference between

7:47

a hermit and an anchor Rights which

7:50

I think most of us would agree

7:52

is a pretty subtle distinction. Many of

7:54

us don't even know if these terms

7:56

are, but but then if you are

7:58

speak to you know I'm medieval. The.

8:00

History Phd, they might they all that are.

8:02

Be afraid. so it is a little bit

8:04

subjective. Yeah. It's it's a

8:06

do tommy of with the as a difference

8:08

between Britain and the Uk. Does it change

8:10

with rak sectors I see like I knew

8:12

but now. I'm a little confused so

8:15

I'm I'm gonna betray my own ignorance

8:17

in these matters, but I don't think

8:19

so. No, I think these these distinctions

8:21

predated brags it and they live after

8:23

a south. The United Kingdom is a

8:26

political term. It's actually short for the

8:28

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern

8:30

Ireland's so it consists of England, Scotland,

8:32

Wales, and Northern Ireland's of those for

8:35

territories make up the country of the

8:37

United Kingdom or the you can be

8:39

A Great Britain on the other hand

8:41

is a geographical term referring. Just to

8:44

the land mass ah that includes only

8:46

three of those for country, so are

8:48

the three of us for territory. So

8:50

England, Scotland, and Wales are on the

8:52

physical landmass Great Britain for as Northern

8:54

Ireland of courses on me when mass

8:57

of Ireland. With. In itself are

8:59

composed of the Republic of Ireland to the

9:01

south which is a much larger parts and

9:03

Northern Ireland in the north which is pets

9:05

and Uk soaps the one of the geographical

9:08

term one of the political term. Is

9:11

there is there one that are

9:13

people who live there prefer that?

9:15

We. Uses when we referred. To. You know

9:17

Still I I will say sometimes in a

9:19

British English and Zip tie that people who

9:21

live in this and insight England, Great Britain,

9:23

The Uk it's like is there when that

9:25

I should be using That is. Better than

9:27

the others I think. Ah,

9:30

so I've I've been living in. The

9:32

Uk for just over a year now

9:35

and it seems to be the case

9:37

that the Uk would be be now

9:39

informed that most people sites and British

9:41

would be be as title form but

9:44

you yourself to be a Brits. ah

9:46

usually means actually but you're a

9:48

citizen of uk or a resident

9:50

of uk so it is also

9:52

include northern ireland so gets confusing

9:54

is one of those few entries

9:56

were i have a slightly like

9:58

the earth com conversation about this at

10:01

the back because you could just go on

10:03

and on. There's also the Crown Dependencies. There's

10:05

all these little islands, the Isle of Man

10:07

and Jersey and Guernsey and the

10:09

whole region kind of requires a flow

10:12

chart basically. Yeah, I saw

10:14

a map once that had squares around all these

10:17

different parts and they were all labeled differently. It's

10:19

amazing. Exactly.

10:24

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ashley.com. Ashley, for the love of home.

12:46

Well, let's get back to food for a minute. Stock

12:48

versus broth, I feel like I

12:50

should have known this. Yeah,

12:53

that's another one where I did not know at

12:55

all. I'm embarrassed to

12:57

say it took me a while to

12:59

get right. In fact, I have to

13:01

thank my copy editors for catching some

13:03

errors, going above and beyond

13:05

the call of duty and saying, I actually don't think that's

13:07

quite right. I myself had

13:10

to revisit that a couple of times. But

13:13

that just tells you how mad of a cook

13:15

I am. Copy editors are the

13:17

best. They always do. Honestly.

13:21

So do tell the difference between stock and

13:23

broth. So other people who might not know.

13:25

I might have to consult it myself. But I guess

13:28

the short answer is that

13:31

a stock is

13:33

primarily made from bones, whereas a broth

13:36

is primarily made from meat. Now,

13:39

one can have the other, but that tends to

13:41

be the essential difference. This is a

13:43

bit of a tangent, but one

13:45

of my favorite things that I learned in

13:47

the course of writing this book is

13:49

that it's often... The clue is often in

13:51

the etymology. It's in the name, right? So

13:54

stock, it's like stocky. It's like your bones,

13:56

right? Or, yeah,

13:58

like the stock of an object. I think

14:00

etymologically relates to the idea of someone's

14:02

bones or from. And

14:05

so stock is bone based and in order

14:07

to extract the flavors from the bones, you

14:09

have to simmer them for a really long

14:11

time. Whereas the broth, it's all on the

14:13

meat. You don't have to simmer it for

14:16

as long a time. But the result also

14:18

is that in the bones

14:20

and cartilage and joints, there is collagen,

14:23

which gives it a kind of

14:25

a gelatinous texture at certain temperatures.

14:28

So broth, or sorry, stock is in addition to

14:30

being a good flavoring agent, it's also a good

14:32

thickening agent and that is not the case with

14:34

stock. Oh, sorry, it's not the case

14:36

with broth. These

14:39

are fine distinctions. Even I continue

14:41

to get muddled. So

14:43

that's great to know that. I'll keep that in mind next

14:45

time I see a recipe. And

14:47

here's one that, well, hors d'oeuvres and

14:49

canapes, first of all, I can never

14:52

spell hors d'oeuvres. I always have

14:54

to look that up. Again, I

14:56

didn't realize there was a difference. Yes.

14:59

And that's one of those examples where one is

15:01

more a subcategory of the other. So a canapé

15:03

is a type of hors d'oeuvre. An hors d'oeuvre

15:05

might be any sort of one bite

15:07

or one or two bite dishes, but a

15:09

canapé is specifically an hors d'oeuvre served on

15:11

a cracker or piece of bread. So if

15:13

you go to a cocktail party or soiree

15:15

of some kind, I don't know the

15:17

last time I've been

15:21

to one of those, but you may

15:23

be served canapés or other types

15:25

of hors d'oeuvres. So another example that I

15:27

actually list in the definition is crudité, which

15:29

is, I don't know why they're all French,

15:31

but crudité are raw

15:33

vegetables. So arguably the

15:36

least appetizing of the type

15:38

of hors d'oeuvre. Right. Yeah.

15:41

And I was surprised there was a special name just for hors d'oeuvres served on

15:43

crackers or bread. Very specific. That's

15:45

right. And another fun

15:47

part of the book was the references

15:49

that made me think of pop culture

15:51

things. I ended up going

15:54

to YouTube and looking up videos

15:56

of things like for you

15:58

have, you know, maybe it doesn't seem that exciting.

16:00

I think, but spear javelin, lance, and

16:02

pike. But one of my favorite lines

16:04

from a movie is in a knight's

16:06

tale where the main characters are

16:10

sort of bantering and then the woman walks

16:13

off and the man is frustrated and then

16:15

she's talking about boys with their sticks, because

16:18

he's doing jousting, and then his friend goes,

16:20

it's called a lance. Yeah,

16:24

exactly. So

16:26

what is the difference between a lance and a

16:28

pike and a spear? Yeah,

16:31

that's a great line and a good

16:33

example, because it is a lance in

16:35

that movie. So if you're jousting, as

16:38

the knights would do in the

16:40

medieval times, you would be doing so with

16:42

a lance. So a lance was a type of spear, if

16:45

we're gonna use spear as the umbrella term, you

16:48

would use on horseback. And in

16:50

fact, if you were jousting, as

16:52

opposed to actually using a lance in

16:54

battle, it would often be

16:56

a blunt tipped lance and

16:59

or a hollow lance to

17:01

protect your opponent because it

17:04

wasn't actually a fight to the death, it was a

17:06

sport, right? So in the cases

17:08

of, in the knight's tale, for instance,

17:10

it was all a man, I mean, people could

17:12

still get hurt, but it would be a safer

17:14

version of a lance. But in battle, lances were

17:16

sharp and they were not

17:18

hollow. So they were very dangerous indeed. But

17:21

that's a lance, a spear would be one

17:23

for holding in a

17:26

one-on-one count combat or in

17:28

army formation, military formation, a

17:30

javelin, perhaps more people will know is for

17:33

throwing. And then a pike is

17:35

a really, really long spear essentially.

17:38

And often the value of

17:40

pikes would actually be in numbers. So it's

17:42

not, it wouldn't as much be for one-on-one

17:44

combat, but essentially a whole bunch of soldiers

17:46

would group together, they would hold up their

17:48

pike, so they would almost form a giant

17:50

porcupine. And that would be a really good

17:52

kind of collective defense and offense. Wild,

17:55

oh, I didn't know that, that's amazing. Yeah,

17:57

yeah. And in fact, the.

18:00

I think one of their

18:03

purposes was actually to defend against

18:05

landfaring cavalry. And I also learned

18:07

along the way that the pike eventually evolved

18:09

into the bayonet. So at one point in

18:12

the, I want to say the 18th century, they were fighting

18:14

with pikes and guns, but the guns at the time were

18:16

somewhat rudimentary. And eventually the guns got better and they said,

18:19

well, we don't need the pikes. Let's just put it on

18:21

the end of the gun. Oh,

18:23

amazing. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's

18:25

great. So the next

18:27

one, you had shotgun

18:30

house versus

18:32

railroad department. And I think I had only ever

18:34

heard that in a Talking Heads

18:36

song. So you may find yourself in a

18:38

shotgun shack in the middle of, you know,

18:41

and so I went and watched that video

18:43

too. Thank you for that. But the difference,

18:45

so what is the difference between a shotgun

18:47

house and a railroad house? Yeah,

18:50

so a shotgun house or a shotgun shack,

18:52

as it is also called, is

18:55

a home,

18:58

usually a single story home where

19:00

one room is directly behind the next with no

19:02

hallway running adjacent. So the idea is if you

19:04

want to get to the far end of the

19:06

house, you have to go through every single other

19:08

room to get there. Not

19:11

necessarily a bad thing if you're

19:13

a small group of people, but if you're a

19:15

big family, it could be hard because that allows

19:17

for very little privacy. And

19:19

a railroad apartment is essentially the same thing, but

19:21

it is in an apartment

19:24

building. And again, not the

19:26

worst thing if you're a small number of people, but

19:29

if you're one family or multiple families, as was the

19:31

case in the kind of era

19:33

of tenement housing in New York

19:35

City, say these were very cramped

19:37

and unpleasant spaces. So

19:39

this is an example actually where

19:41

it's two different things that have

19:44

kind of architectural features that overlap.

19:46

But the shotgun house was more

19:48

popular in the south, predominantly in

19:50

New Orleans, but beyond

19:52

there, too, whereas the railroad apartment is

19:54

kind of archetypal of New

19:57

York City, Chicago and other big cities.

20:00

And then and the other one that

20:03

sir took me back to my childhood

20:05

was an slow meal and slow maazel.

20:07

a ago I went much the intro

20:09

to Laverne and Shirley where they sing

20:12

that song with slow meals the muzzle

20:14

and I always wondered let let that

20:16

man. Is. It was the rest

20:18

ha ha. Some supper incorporated result but. Ah

20:20

yes I do tell the difference between

20:23

slow meal and slim ago. Sure,

20:25

it's of assurances are both

20:27

Jewish words arm and a

20:29

short answer is these are

20:31

two different kinds of losers

20:33

Saw Ah, I always appreciate

20:35

the ability to be nuanced

20:37

than subtle in this area,

20:39

but basically a slow meal

20:42

is a bumbling fools. So

20:44

someone who's quite loudly clumsy,

20:46

arm, or scheming doesn't matter,

20:48

be physical, Necessarily bad specific

20:50

kind of loud and overt

20:52

about. Their incompetence. So

20:54

a classic example might be a

20:56

Creamer from Seinfeld. That character read

20:58

these kind of always scheming and

21:00

getting into trouble or as well

21:02

as making all kinds of physical

21:04

pratfalls. I'm was a slum awful

21:06

is someone who ah is kind

21:08

of a born loser or always

21:11

gets the short end of the

21:13

stack and literally it it is

21:15

translate from Judas too bad Lox

21:17

ah slim muscles south again you

21:19

could maybe see the George from

21:21

Seinfeld would be a good example.

21:23

Of a slum assholes on because he ah

21:25

bad things happen to him. I mean he

21:27

is also bumbling so you could argue well

21:30

they're both a bit about that's he's probably

21:32

more the slum awful think you're right so

21:34

that things are happening to him and and

21:36

spit be the easiest way that to remember.

21:38

The difference is that assume your this is

21:41

a classic either show but a slum yields

21:43

is someone who spills their soup and a

21:45

slum. Also if someone on to whom sue

21:47

business. Ssssss given.

21:52

A What Litter some of your favorite entries from

21:54

the by. i

21:56

think i would have to say my favorite

21:58

is the difference between a me and a

22:00

labyrinth. And I think that's

22:03

because I used to love mazes as

22:05

a kid. I'm sure like so

22:07

many kids, like, you know, I thought they were so

22:09

cool. I had my little books of puzzles and I

22:12

love solving them, my little books of mazes. And

22:14

then to learn so late in life that there's

22:17

something called the labyrinth that's something

22:19

else. And I had no

22:21

idea my whole life that there was this other thing,

22:24

they're called labyrinths and

22:26

it's got its own long

22:28

history. And just, I suppose for

22:30

readers and listeners, I should expect

22:33

viewers and listeners that I should explain

22:35

the difference. So a maze is,

22:37

as most people know, a puzzle that

22:39

consists of many paths or to use

22:42

the technical term, it is multi-cursal. And

22:45

it consists of many paths and dead ends.

22:47

And the goal is to find your way

22:49

out or to the center, but ultimately it's

22:51

a puzzle, right? That the kind of is

22:54

meant to disorient you and you have to figure your way out.

22:57

A labyrinth on the other hand, now

23:00

the term to muddy things

23:02

a bit can actually refer to

23:04

a maze sometimes, but more strictly

23:06

speaking, refers to this second category.

23:08

So a labyrinth is uni-cursal or

23:10

single path and contains

23:12

no dead ends, but rather is

23:15

winding or circuitous and

23:17

leads toward a center. So

23:19

you cannot

23:21

get lost in one. It

23:24

is just one long winding path.

23:26

And whereas the function of a maze

23:28

is to amuse and

23:30

challenge and confuse, the purpose

23:33

of a labyrinth is actually

23:36

nowadays, it's actually a therapeutic value, the

23:39

idea of kind of the

23:41

repetitive motion of walking in a spiral

23:43

like formation can kind of relax you.

23:45

But it's actually got a long history

23:47

in religion and spirituality as a kind

23:49

of, I

23:52

think it performs similar things in those areas too.

23:54

It's kind of got this calming

23:57

and contemplative effect. I've

24:00

never been a labyrinth, have you? Actually,

24:03

have, There's a there's one in Toronto in

24:05

in Hyde Park and it's just a pattern

24:07

on a floor and you'll actually see them.

24:10

But now that I was the classic example,

24:12

now that I've learned the difference, I see

24:14

them everywhere. Acts as designs on walls or

24:16

as art. Or if you go to a

24:19

park, you might see one. Certain cathedral floors

24:21

have them. But yes,

24:23

it's just the kind of design basically

24:25

and you can walk along. It's almost

24:28

like a complex form of hopscotch are

24:30

some things and ah, Didn't

24:32

another aspect of why I find it

24:34

interesting is you know, Again, Met

24:37

Many people will be familiar with the myth

24:39

of the Labyrinth from into Greek mythology. Were

24:42

thesis has to go into the labyrinth

24:44

to kill the Minotaur. Now there's actually

24:46

I have a kind of nice academic

24:48

debate about whether or not be ancient

24:50

Greek labyrinth was in fact a labyrinth

24:53

or whether or not it was amazed.

24:55

And the reason that makes it complicated

24:57

is that are hard to decide is

24:59

that courting to build nests Ccs uses

25:01

a length of thread a ton of

25:04

be the length of thread behind him

25:06

as he weaves his way towards the

25:08

center to kill both. The Minotaur specific

25:10

just. it's amazed because. Why would he need

25:12

the. The. String and less if

25:15

it to find his way out

25:17

by. from all the coins from

25:19

the Ancient Greek and Roman period

25:22

that depicts the labyrinth. Depicted.

25:24

As elaborate which to say. it's not as

25:26

a maze, but as a universal pattern. So.

25:30

But then why does he me the

25:32

strength maybe? Was dark Americans as needed.

25:34

Kind of a handrails. so it's kind

25:36

of an open debate and kind of

25:38

our of an unsolved mysteries. Very

25:40

cool or hip the last one. I want

25:42

to talk about from the but. His arms at this

25:44

the one that blew my mind and also

25:47

I think will be so useful in the

25:49

future if I were in a when I

25:51

visit new cities is the difference between a

25:53

street and avenue A dry as a place

25:56

a court a it and and now I

25:58

see like when a. The An

26:00

address. Now I'm going to know

26:03

more about the the place that

26:05

is at that address because their

26:07

differences. Between these words. Absolutely

26:10

it's It's a great example of how

26:12

the really are no two words that

26:14

are exactly the same that every word

26:16

contain is a little packet of information

26:18

stat that contains all the subtleties and

26:20

that was a fun one to kind

26:23

of learn more about as well as

26:25

like you. I did notice either going

26:27

and by streets are urban. Roads.

26:30

Are usually rural, although they

26:32

can be of that tends

26:34

to be the umbrella terms.

26:36

Boulevards are wide. Often.

26:38

Have a median down the middle. an

26:41

avid use our kind of be tricky

26:43

one so avenues are kind of. Switch.

26:45

Hitters they comes to could be like

26:48

streets or they can be like ah

26:50

boulevards depending on the city ups but

26:52

I think the of the bookies and

26:54

often is that it isn't It is

26:56

an upgraded street so whether it's a

26:58

great it because it's wide like a

27:00

boulevard are because it's ends in a

27:03

nice view or at a park or

27:05

or whatever but by certain cities like

27:07

New York for instance and I can

27:09

remember some the others I lot of

27:11

the book. Honestly memphis streets and avenues

27:13

run perpendicular. Chicago Thank

27:15

you. Yes, our streets in Avenues run

27:17

perpendicular to one another, which is interesting.

27:19

says all the streets go one way,

27:21

it's and then. Turned. A corner

27:24

and all be avenues, go the other so

27:26

they're They're kind of like the the x

27:28

street gabi what you need them to be.

27:31

Yeah. It's amazing I never knew to

27:33

abandoned us cities I've never noticed that there

27:35

aren't as go on my in the streets

27:37

go the other but now I'll now amazing

27:40

so helped so useful or it's the dictionary

27:42

of find a sense that the for we

27:44

go I also money here it's you do

27:46

you put I'm spelling bees and I would

27:49

love to hear about that. That's right,

27:52

sure just so we are

27:54

my love of language has

27:56

other forms but i'm for

27:58

about six sir seven years now

28:00

I've been running Spelling Bee

28:02

as a monthly bar event. There

28:04

was obviously a big hiatus with

28:06

COVID and in the wake of

28:08

that and the move to the UK I'm kind of just

28:11

getting the ball rolling again. But

28:13

yes it is a monthly Spelling Bee event

28:15

called Spelling Bay and I'm

28:18

trying to kind of bring the

28:20

classic kids Spelling Bee to the

28:22

adult world so that people at

28:24

bars can come up to the

28:26

mic and let her rip. And yes I kind

28:28

of devised it as an alternative to trivia

28:32

which is also really fun. But Spelling,

28:35

something about spelling really brings

28:37

out the nerves in people and it makes for

28:39

great, it's a great spectator sport. True.

28:43

Wonderful. Well again the book is

28:45

the Dictionary of Fine Distinctions. Eli

28:47

tell people where they can find

28:49

you. Absolutely. So

28:52

my website is eliburnscene.com and that's

28:54

BurnsceneBU which is a less common

28:56

spelling. I'm on Twitter and Instagram

28:59

and you can find my book

29:02

online at most major retailers so Amazon, Barnes

29:04

and Noble, you name it as well as

29:06

in bookstores. Yeah the Dictionary

29:08

of Fine Distinctions. You will love it.

29:10

So thank you Eli. Thank you so

29:13

much for being here today. Thank

29:15

you Mignon. I

29:20

hope you all enjoyed my conversation with

29:23

Eli Bernstein. I'll be back Tuesday with

29:25

a regular episode. We found the origin

29:27

of the phrase a whim-wham for a

29:30

muck-it. And then check your

29:32

feed again Thursday for our next

29:34

installment of Grammar Girl Conversations when

29:36

I'll be talking with Erin Brenner

29:38

about her new book The Chicago

29:40

Guide for Freelance Editors. We'll be

29:42

dropping all kinds of productivity tips

29:44

for people who work with words.

29:46

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