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Full terms at mintmobile.com. BBC

1:00

Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. In

1:29

this series, we've explored the lives

1:31

of such luminaries as Bruce Forsythe,

1:34

Antoni Gaudí and Emma, Queen of England.

1:36

But one of the joys of this

1:38

programme is that I get the opportunity

1:40

to find out about lesser-known lives, individuals

1:43

whose names you might not recognise,

1:46

but who did extraordinary things. And

1:49

today's subject is, for me, one of

1:51

those lives. Born Rachel

1:53

Workman in Massachusetts in

1:56

1884, she died Lady

1:58

Rachel MacRobert in Scotland. Auckland in

2:00

nineteen fifty four. Now

2:03

nominating Lady Mcroberts is the Ceo

2:05

of the Royal Academy of Engineering.

2:07

Doctor Item see them play out

2:09

in welcome. When did you find

2:11

out about the life as Lady

2:13

Mack Robert? how to do in?

2:15

Come to Her so to speak.

2:18

With certain things I encountered. Laden

2:20

Robot without realising say so many years

2:22

I would similar with what cool than

2:24

that robust award This is quite well

2:27

known and engineering and to migrate same

2:29

I probably need about the for of

2:31

decades before I realize that that Robert

2:33

research to lead him at Robot rather

2:36

than Us Mister Robot or Lord Mcroberts

2:38

as I. Had become you see because

2:40

the History of Engineering course va a

2:42

male dominated and say I hadn't encountered

2:45

many. Awards named after women.

2:47

And having discovered that this was

2:49

named after lead him a robot.

2:52

I then looks into her and

2:54

I thought my gosh, how have

2:56

I not known about this extraordinary

2:58

woman before? So see Will as

3:00

a scientist. She was a suffragette,

3:02

she was a couple breeder, see

3:05

was a visionary, and I think

3:07

that one of the most significant

3:09

things about her is she managed

3:11

to channel what was an utterly

3:13

devastating personal. Loss into something that

3:15

really delivers incredibly widespread benefits to the

3:18

Second World War. I want to ask

3:20

her about thousand and just a moment,

3:22

but just running through the things that

3:25

struck you about her apart from at

3:27

first sight. but she was actually a

3:29

woman. What struck to most what stands

3:32

out? See what? Why have you nominated

3:34

her? I think there's

3:36

something about Laden but Robot that appeals to

3:38

me publish. Personal level. I come

3:41

from a family with a

3:43

number of fiercely independent. Intrepid,

3:45

probably quite obstinate women. Some people may

3:47

say I am one of the myself,

3:49

and I think I definitely saw something

3:51

of a kindred spirit in her. And

3:54

in particular her response to the

3:56

loss of has three sons which

3:58

will took buttons. The more detail

4:00

but her. Her response to this

4:03

personal loss was quite. Extraordinary

4:05

in it's defiance in the

4:07

way see seized agency from

4:09

a situation. Yet should have

4:12

made her victim vs and I

4:14

think that really stood out from

4:16

a month have many achievement and

4:18

typical of a whole character models

4:20

that are still mask emblematic The

4:23

Spring and our expert Gordon Masterton

4:25

whose emeritus professor of Future Infrastructure

4:27

at the University of Edinburgh and

4:29

a trustee of the Muck Robert

4:31

Trust a Gordon welcome first what

4:34

is future infrastructure? Ah well I

4:36

guess it's anything that we would

4:38

probably recognize more as lose civil

4:40

Engineering. But the systems behind

4:42

our roads and railways, transportation

4:44

infrastructure, and the transition to

4:47

Net zero, all of the

4:49

changes that required and associated

4:51

with that know ladyman grub.

4:53

It was not. Really? Herself

4:55

an engineer what for you if

4:57

you had to pick out one

5:00

or two were have most notable

5:02

achievements. I think for Lady Rachel

5:05

she was a serial achiever and

5:07

everything that she to khan was

5:09

the first thing that I'm impressed

5:12

by. She studied geology at a

5:14

time when very few women did.

5:16

She attended meetings of the Geological

5:19

Society when women were not welcomed

5:21

see. Fought against the

5:23

trend and many fiercely independent

5:26

lady and was ultimately very

5:28

very successful in how she

5:30

approached her challenges and life.

5:32

I guess in many fields.

5:34

His he is speaking on

5:36

the B, B C, and

5:39

Nineteen Forty Two. Me: Women

5:41

have a vital part. The flown we always

5:43

have. And it available and

5:45

is the mother anything to. On.

5:48

The flower value on full of funny. I'm not

5:50

going to need of them to answer the call

5:52

but the smoke. And I read it.

5:54

They have. Prepare themselves for the service. A

5:56

plethora of. Flown. Know.

5:59

They have all gone. Two of them killed

6:01

in action. They did their duty and

6:03

I am proud of them. They

6:05

gave their lives for you and me and for

6:07

their country, for humanity. They

6:10

passed their facing spirit back to me to

6:12

sustain the heart they knew the day. I

6:15

gave my Roberts' reply with great honor to

6:17

carry on the place. He

6:19

told us that just for motto, glory

6:21

is the reward of valor. What

6:24

do you think of that voice? Had you heard it before? I

6:27

have heard that voice before and I think it's a voice

6:29

of its time. Quite interestingly, you don't

6:31

really hear that she's actually American originally,

6:34

nor do you hear particularly strong

6:36

Scottish influence. And I

6:38

think what strikes me more is less the sound

6:40

of her voice than how she's using her voice.

6:43

And I think this decision that she

6:45

took that became known as

6:48

McRoberts' reply, to respond

6:51

to having lost her third son, so

6:53

she was a single mother by then. She'd been

6:56

a single mother since she was 38 when

6:58

her sons were very young. Within a

7:00

very short space of time, she'd lost two sons in

7:04

the war, second world war, within about a

7:06

month of each other. And very soon after

7:08

that, she wrote this

7:10

letter to the Secretary of State for Air, I think, and

7:12

she accompanied it with a

7:15

cheque for £25,000 and said, I

7:17

would like you to buy a bomber that shall

7:19

be known as McRoberts' reply. And

7:22

it was her way of saying,

7:24

I am

7:26

not going to sit

7:28

here and just grieve. I'm

7:31

going to use my voice and my

7:33

resources to do something

7:35

positive in this most desperate

7:37

of situations. And that was really

7:40

something that then permeated a whole

7:43

series of activities over subsequent years. So

7:46

she understood that her experience as

7:48

a mother would resonate with other mothers, and

7:50

that was something that could be

7:52

used to great effect to mobilise effort

7:54

around the war. She

7:57

wrote many, many letters and speeches.

8:00

is often dedicated to other women

8:02

and other mothers, in which she

8:04

had this sense

8:06

of legitimacy and authenticity that she

8:08

really understood the sacrifices that people

8:11

were making. And this had

8:13

been her reply, what would their reply be? And

8:16

I think that it's actually

8:18

quite rare to see somebody who is

8:20

so effective at utilising

8:22

the voice that they have been

8:24

given through personal circumstances in that way.

8:27

And it may also have been a

8:29

natural reaction to grief and

8:31

coping with grief in

8:33

a way that was still being constructive. And

8:35

I like to think that was partly her

8:37

scientific training where the situation

8:40

had occurred, she'd lost all

8:42

three of her sons in the short space

8:44

of time. But those sons

8:46

had been dedicated, especially the last two in

8:49

combat, dedicated to a cause which was winning

8:51

the war. So naturally,

8:53

she wouldn't have wished those

8:55

losses to have been in vain. And

8:58

she applied herself to say, what could

9:00

I do to help what

9:03

the boys wanted to see happen? She was very

9:05

clear that this was not about revenge. So

9:08

she said, this action is a reflection

9:10

of our determination to carry on in

9:13

spite of loss. And I think that's

9:15

really important because it could be seen as sort of hitting out.

9:17

And what's fascinating is that the

9:20

response to her action to McRoberts

9:22

reply was incredible. She achieved a

9:24

degree of fame at that time.

9:27

People wrote to her from right around the

9:29

world and I've uncovered some fantastic correspondence between

9:31

her and in particular women in the

9:34

Soviet Union. And I just

9:36

wanted to quote from one extraordinary letter that

9:39

I found, which if I can read it says,

9:42

we women doctors of a military hospital

9:44

from far off Leningrad greet you British

9:46

mother patriot who by your bravery has

9:48

set an example of courage to the

9:51

whole world. And brilliantly they sign off

9:53

Lady McRoberts. We grasp your hand. And

9:55

this was sent to 1942 by the

9:57

Soviet Embassy.

10:00

I think that speaks to the impact she made.

10:02

God, we've been talking about her voluminous

10:04

correspondence. You've brought something along. Yes, and

10:07

again, it's the message that Lady McRobert

10:09

had to the air crew of the

10:11

Sterling bomber that was the first gift

10:13

to the Air Force. And I like

10:16

this because she was addressing it to

10:18

the boys of the RAF. It

10:20

could also have been a message to what she

10:23

might have said to her own sons had they

10:25

still been alive. And she said

10:27

with the best of good luck, boys, always

10:30

and whenever and wherever you go, I

10:32

know you will strike hard, sharp, and

10:34

straight to the mark. That's the only

10:36

language the enemy understands. My

10:39

thoughts and thousands of other mothers are

10:41

with you. And we are truly grateful

10:43

to all concerned. Also thanks

10:45

to those of you who have the care

10:47

of my reply and prepare

10:49

her for her flights. May

10:51

the blows you strike bring us nearer victory.

10:54

God bless you all. Some times

10:56

are ahead of us. If any

10:59

of your loved ones have also given their lives, remember

11:01

they bared to make men free.

11:05

Your hearts will be sustained by their spirit

11:07

of sacrifice. Honor their memory

11:09

with all your energy and power exerted

11:11

to win the better world they died

11:13

for. Until then, fight

11:15

on through these dark days

11:18

we suffer. I mentioned right

11:20

at the beginning that she was born in

11:22

Massachusetts. Tell us a bit about her early

11:24

life, Gordon. Who are her parents? She was

11:26

born to very wealthy parents. Her

11:29

grandfather had been a governor of

11:31

Massachusetts. Her mother was

11:34

a significantly independent woman

11:36

in her own right. After she

11:38

married William Workman, who was a

11:40

surgeon, they left the

11:43

US and settled in

11:45

Dresden in Germany. And the reason

11:47

for that was they wanted to dedicate

11:49

their lives to mountaineering and

11:52

expeditions on bicycles. And they wrote about

11:54

it. And they wrote books about bicycling

11:56

to India from Europe. And

11:58

significant assents. of peaks

12:00

that she achieved as a very

12:03

distinguished early woman mountaineer. But

12:05

parenthood doesn't seem to have been their

12:07

thing. Two children, they had one

12:09

died very young, Rachel had a brother, but

12:12

they were dispatched to school at quite an

12:14

early age, boarding school. And prior

12:16

to that, they effectively had been raised

12:18

by nannies and nurses. So

12:20

I think that independence was inbred

12:23

in Rachel from a very, very

12:25

early age. She had to cope

12:27

in the absence of for long periods

12:30

of time, her parents won their

12:32

many expeditions. She'd been sent

12:34

as a girl to Cheltenham Ladies College.

12:37

We got in touch with them to see what records

12:39

they had. They said she

12:41

joined in September 1897, aged 13 and a

12:43

half, and left three years later. She was,

12:48

and I'm quoting, distinguished in

12:50

French, and later won a

12:52

school award from the Société

12:54

Nationale des Prophetures de Francaise

12:57

en Angla Terre. All they

12:59

seemed to be able to say about

13:01

her was that she was good at French. I

13:04

can imagine her not being

13:06

terribly interested in the official curriculum,

13:08

but rather being interested in what

13:10

she wanted to pursue, what she

13:12

thought was interesting. So, you

13:14

know, again, contextualized in expectations at the

13:17

time, I think it's fascinating that she

13:19

refused to give up her studies or

13:21

her work when she married. She seemed

13:23

to have very firm views on what

13:25

marriage would entail. In fact, I understand that

13:28

she sort of negotiated her husband down from

13:30

a full church wedding to a Quaker meeting

13:32

house as an appropriate venue. And

13:35

I think it's just typical of Lady MacRoberts' approach

13:37

to life and work, which is, if I'm interested

13:39

and I think it's a cause worth pursuing, I

13:41

shall pursue it. And it's surprising, and the report

13:43

from the school didn't mention science at all. No.

13:47

Yes. As

14:00

member the family three able to go to

14:02

secondary school and so is this. I grew

14:04

up was just a very clear understanding of

14:06

the value, education and the fact that I

14:08

had opportunities of people didn't so he didn't

14:10

think it was so much that I. Was

14:12

incredibly hard working, but I certainly knew

14:14

that I didn't want to waste the

14:17

opportunities. I had higher to and

14:19

mentioned her wedding into a

14:21

Quaker meeting house. Tell us

14:23

about the husband Gordon and

14:25

she got be Mcroberts surnames

14:27

from somebody presumably who was

14:29

Yes, indeed, that was Alexander.

14:32

Like Robert and they met

14:34

on a voyage from India

14:36

back to the Uk and

14:38

Alexander was returning from his

14:40

business because he had become

14:42

managing director and owner of

14:44

substantial mills Villain Mills and

14:46

Neck. Poor and utter Pradesh and

14:49

it's lost his wife about four

14:51

years before. I first encountered Rachel

14:53

on that voyage home but the

14:55

struck up a relationship. big age

14:57

difference so her a change the

14:59

front of the years and I

15:01

should reach home was twenty four

15:03

twenty five when she meant Alexander

15:05

on that voids he was fifty

15:07

five he might sink not made

15:10

of been as a father figure

15:12

that she probably didn't have an

15:14

the her early life at all

15:16

of can separate. That necessarily to

15:18

the air but may have been

15:20

a feature of humor. Someone to

15:22

that was kindly and the that

15:24

she got on well with can

15:26

resist. Dropped off a romantic relationships

15:28

and great He was very well

15:30

off exactly by that time and

15:32

he he was knighted in the

15:34

end he was a few years

15:36

i can just a few years

15:38

after he met her rachel and.

15:41

Soon. Before they were married but

15:43

she refused to attend the ceremony

15:46

was that are funny because he'd

15:48

is expressed the view that see

15:50

would buy was a nice to

15:53

know man even the king. What

15:56

do you think? Hostile tune in her refusal to

15:58

get to the bus to be. Stream.

16:01

For yes, I mean I can only think she was trying to

16:04

lay on a mosque. As though the sort of why

16:06

she would be and them i think she was

16:08

a person. Of. Principles And I think

16:10

her principles. took precedence

16:12

over. Custom and Expectations If you

16:15

read some of the things he said of

16:17

Outs are the treatment of girls and. Women

16:19

strong stuff. There's a brilliant crate

16:21

that sort of talks about what.

16:23

Girls have to bear in the wickedness of men

16:26

in general. The. Wickedness of Med Insurance

16:28

have become think I like Ice

16:30

speaks to assess the feeling about

16:32

her own experience isis about with

16:34

and she said listen and defense

16:37

actually of the militant suffragettes yes

16:39

I guess it was justifying of

16:41

their accents and she was a

16:43

true and that active suffragette know

16:45

she's militants, buses and their supporters

16:47

So he was very active in

16:50

trying to promote the message that

16:52

the influence of women with grace

16:54

and far reaching and. Encouraging.

16:56

Women and men to not time that to make

16:58

the most of that And she says knees and

17:01

find that in the way she lived her life.

17:03

And. That I think he would have

17:06

my favorite phrases ever is that

17:08

he was described as being charmingly

17:10

volcanic, which I think that's very

17:12

maybe a new life go from

17:14

be disarming. Legal Cannabis Sicilian. We

17:17

heard earlier about how she excelled

17:19

in languages, but dumb as we've

17:21

said, it was science, but she

17:23

pursued specifically geometry. What's known about

17:25

this time? Gordon and why? Geologists

17:27

up a lot less Twos Geology

17:30

buster To and initially to the

17:32

Royal Holloway School and. then spent

17:34

a year at the university of

17:37

edinburgh studying geology there and then

17:39

completed or studies as one of

17:41

the alley female attendees at imperial

17:44

college the role school of mines

17:46

within imperial and then graduated finally

17:48

sat of final exams very close

17:51

to the times that she married

17:53

alexander so she was studying all

17:55

the time preparing for this lucky

17:58

waiting at the creek Meeting

18:00

House in York and then

18:02

off to their final exams in

18:04

geology which she passed with second-class

18:06

honours but after qualifying

18:09

in geology she carried on

18:11

with her interest there by now she

18:13

was married but she went on field

18:15

trips she studied she took specimens she

18:17

wrote papers on geological specimens

18:20

that she'd gathered in Scotland and the

18:22

borders and also in Sweden. And

18:24

can I also just add then that she didn't

18:26

I suppose distinguish herself to an exceptional degree as

18:28

a scientist but if you look at

18:31

her she was really a polymath. She had very

18:33

broad interests and perhaps also

18:35

the difficulty of achieving those highest heights

18:38

as a woman at the time may have influenced the

18:40

extent to which she pursued one of her interests over

18:42

another. Yes and she was

18:44

the first to do so many

18:46

things when she attended her first

18:48

mining lecture at the Royal Society

18:50

of Mines she was the first

18:52

woman ever to attend a mining

18:54

lecture although there's something about them

18:56

attempting to eject her

18:58

what was this Gordon? Well in

19:01

1913 this was before the geological

19:03

society had agreed to admit women.

19:05

1913 she turned up at the

19:08

doors to attend the annual general

19:10

meeting and there was an

19:12

attempt to refuse her admission but

19:15

she stood her ground and said well that's the

19:17

fault of the society not me and

19:19

I've always attended the annual meetings and you're

19:21

not going to stop me and waved him

19:24

a side and walked in and

19:26

it wasn't until six years later that the

19:28

Geological Society finally did relent

19:30

and allow women to become

19:33

members and she was one of the first

19:35

eight to be admitted. And you have to

19:37

admire people like Lady MacRobert

19:39

for laying the foundation for what is

19:42

now the norm in terms

19:44

of at least the expectations of equality

19:46

of opportunity. There's obviously work to do

19:48

in many respects but someone like Lady

19:51

MacRobert showed amazing courage and put

19:53

some personal risk capital on the line

19:56

in order to say this is

19:59

wrong and I Repositories it and

20:01

I think it is. This is one

20:03

of the many reasons I admire. This

20:05

is what she said about the Royal

20:07

Geological Society out a gun on going

20:09

to ask a I tune if you

20:12

would read this and attempt was made

20:14

to eject me. The secretary rust. Up

20:16

and said I was not a salad so I explain

20:18

this was. Through no fault of mine but

20:20

the societies and ways to messiah marched in,

20:22

they need. Not trying to texted me because

20:24

I'm a woman, I've always gone to the

20:27

annual meetings and intend to do so is

20:29

in London. I

20:31

would like to see in the

20:33

face of the first and he

20:35

was telling her daughter in fact

20:37

that points assist assist. Wonderful stuff

20:40

Theater and I read that your

20:42

masters was in biochemistry said also

20:44

a scientist to these prejudices still

20:46

exist to do feel some center

20:48

feeling with. Her as a scientist

20:50

trailblazer refusing to leave and a

20:52

Gm well I suppose in the

20:54

by science is where I recently

20:56

studied kinda balances much further advance

20:58

cynicism engineering where I spent most

21:01

my professional life soon engineering. We

21:03

still have a profession that is

21:05

unfortunately only sixteen and a half

21:07

percent women in the Uk despite

21:09

many years of efforts to to

21:12

a t crates him who balance

21:14

profession and I think that. There.

21:16

Are many women in engineering he would

21:18

recognize aspects of once? I would like

21:21

to think that this sort of most

21:23

egregious forms of discrimination that they didn't

21:25

robotic space all fall behind us. but

21:28

I don't think we can be complacent

21:30

about the extent to which people from

21:32

different underrepresented groups. Still, face

21:34

inequality and has opportunity or treat

21:37

mental that accent which I feel

21:39

welcome unable to contribute. her husband

21:41

died suddenly have a heart attack and

21:43

nineteen twenty two how did you cope

21:45

after that him either of you for

21:47

that was a time when them the

21:49

boys were raised between five and ten

21:51

at that time so of courses or

21:53

time to first of all look after

21:55

the boys and make sure that they

21:57

had a schooling and an upbringing and

21:59

absence of a father and

22:02

she still however kept involved

22:04

with the companies that Alexander had founded,

22:06

one of the co-founders of the British

22:09

India Corporation by then and she

22:11

became a director. She relied on

22:14

those in India that were managing

22:16

the businesses. She didn't particularly enjoy

22:18

travelling to India so she managed

22:21

at arm's length and then

22:23

did that for about 10-11 years. So

22:25

we can add business to

22:27

her achievement. The

22:30

breadth of achievement of course, so many different domains

22:32

as a woman at that time

22:34

is extraordinary. And cattle raising because

22:37

one of her sons was a bit poorly and

22:39

she wanted better milk for him. Exactly.

22:42

And it was Frisians that she initially

22:44

heard of Frisian cows and they

22:47

worked up in Aberdeenshire and

22:49

Ireland. Later she advanced

22:51

on to Highland cattle and

22:54

also Aberdeen Angus and won

22:56

competitions and results at the Highland

22:59

shows every year for

23:01

a significant period of time. She was

23:03

a champion breeder. Aberdeen Angus features highly

23:05

in her speeches may I say. I

23:09

am no expert on that topic but clearly

23:11

she felt very passionate about that. She wasn't

23:13

a gentleman farmer in that sense. She

23:16

was very proud of her milk yield

23:18

I understand and the improvement she managed

23:20

to achieve. Very hands on with everything

23:22

she took on. We heard earlier that

23:24

following the tragic death of her three

23:26

sons, Lady MacRobert paid for

23:28

a plane to be commissioned and named

23:31

in their memory. The MacRoberts

23:33

reply. Was that a one off Gordon? No

23:35

it wasn't. That was the first. She wrote

23:37

a cheque for £25,000 to buy the sterling

23:42

bomber a year later or so. She

23:44

did it again but this time to

23:46

pay for four hawker hurricanes. And

23:49

they were to be named after her three sons and

23:52

the lady. The final

23:54

MacRoberts reply plane apparently had its

23:56

last flight in 2018. Well,

24:00

that's right, yes. The name carried

24:03

on onto buccaneers and tornadoes. Whilst

24:05

there is no McRobert reply in

24:07

the RAF right now, there is

24:09

a McRobert fighter and it's a

24:11

typhoon attached to six

24:13

squadron in Lossymouth. She was known

24:15

at the time as the fairy godmother of the RAF and

24:19

I think it must have been very unusual that

24:21

there was an RAF fly past as she was

24:23

laid to rest for civilian. That must be a

24:25

very rare event. She never remarried. Did

24:28

she have any close friendships in

24:30

her later life? She did strike

24:32

up a friendship with William Hoon

24:35

who was a very renowned operatic

24:37

singer and popular singer. He

24:39

came along to Alistair's coming of age party when

24:42

he was 21 and they later

24:46

became a state manager. They obviously got along

24:48

rather well. How did she

24:51

spend the last years of her life,

24:53

Gordon? What did she do? She was

24:55

only 70 when she died so she

24:57

wasn't advanced in years so she was

25:00

just as active as ever leading up

25:02

to 1954 when she died. Very active

25:04

in post-war politics from the fringing, observing

25:07

and criticising and looking after the estate

25:09

at Tarlin and setting up the McRobert

25:11

trust. I also find it

25:13

so interesting looking at how she responded

25:15

post-war because of course so much of what

25:18

we talk about is to do with the build-up

25:20

to this terrible experience she had of losing her

25:22

three sons and having been a single mother prior

25:24

to that. But actually what's

25:26

quite interesting in her letters and her speeches

25:29

is her disappointment with I

25:31

think how things progressed after the war

25:33

at least initially. And so

25:35

I suspect as a woman she

25:37

maybe hoped that the war would mark

25:40

a greater turning point for the role that

25:42

women would then play in society. She's

25:44

quite critical of the government and she complains

25:47

about party politics and says that she's

25:50

very disappointed with the amount of red tape and

25:52

she wishes that there was more to be done

25:54

to enable free entered price of flourish and

25:57

there's a particularly enjoyable exchange well for

25:59

me. my perspective, where

26:02

she had been invited to record

26:04

a speech by the BBC to be

26:06

broadcast on Remembrance Day in 1946. And

26:09

this is then censored by the BBC. And

26:12

she is very upset about this. But

26:15

then, even worse, the BBC go

26:17

on to broadcast a censored version

26:19

without her permission. And

26:21

there's a wonderful piece of writing here

26:24

that says, broadcast as mutilated by the

26:26

BBC London without permission. And in her

26:28

subsequent speeches, there's a very strong theme

26:30

about her displeasure at this and what

26:32

sort of society we live in that,

26:34

you know, that this is allowed to

26:36

happen. But I actually I think what

26:38

underpinned all that was the feeling of

26:40

we've worked so hard to achieve this victory

26:45

must bring us more than it has brought

26:47

us so far. And she believed

26:49

very strongly in the spirit of

26:52

unselfish cooperation in teamwork and

26:54

unity. She spoke very passionately

26:56

about, you know, the dangers of

26:58

jealousy, she was a promoter of a strong

27:00

work ethic. And I think it was really

27:02

just that sense of frustration. All

27:05

the effort that had gone into all the sacrifices

27:07

has been made. We deserve better. I

27:10

said at the beginning that she was a

27:13

lesser known life. I've learned

27:15

so much about her. And I'm still unsure,

27:17

though, whether it's what she did that impresses

27:19

me the most or who she was. Certainly,

27:22

it must have helped that she had money

27:24

behind her. But what's that when you

27:26

lose your husband and all three of your children?

27:29

As I've mentioned, there's the MacRobert

27:31

Trust about which you've both been

27:34

speaking the award. Her home

27:36

in Scotland is open to the public

27:38

as well as to former service people.

27:40

An opera was written about her and

27:42

MacRoberts reply. An AI version

27:44

of her has been developed. So

27:47

to both of you, has her

27:49

life had a lasting impact beyond her

27:51

years on the planet? Gordon?

27:54

Yes, very much. I'd like to think that the

27:57

MacRobert Trust is one of the key legacies of...

27:59

But also increasingly her

28:02

achievements through her life and her

28:04

character. I gave a talk to

28:06

Edinburgh Science Festival just a few weeks ago

28:09

introducing the AI talking

28:11

Lady MacRobert and

28:13

young women were coming up to me and said,

28:15

who would have thought she was such a badass?

28:18

It's a terrific story and we should make

28:20

more of it. It's badass fare, do you

28:22

think? Absolutely. I think she might have approved

28:25

of that, actually. I think

28:27

that her legacy is profound

28:30

and what we need to do is to

28:32

retrace our steps back to her. So in

28:34

a way, many of us have benefited from

28:36

it without knowing the role that she played.

28:39

So I'm hoping that whether it's

28:41

by producing an AI version of Lady MacRobert

28:43

that's sort of fun and engaging will remind

28:45

people about her story or whether it's through

28:47

this fantastic program that other people will be

28:50

introduced to her extraordinary achievements. I

28:52

believe that it isn't just what she achieved,

28:54

but it's how she achieved it. Who

28:57

she was, yes, Matthew, but how she

28:59

went about tackling the problems

29:01

that she saw in the world around her. And ultimately, I

29:03

think of her as a visionary

29:05

and highly progressive leader. My

29:08

thanks to Hayatu and Siloam for

29:10

choosing the life of Lady Rachel

29:12

MacRobert and to Gordon Masterton for

29:14

being our expert. Goodbye. Hey,

29:20

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29:22

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29:45

you don't download that, well, that's not

29:47

just a true crime, my friend. That's

29:49

criminal.