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baby chickens spent the night outside last night

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and welcome to happier in

1:00

Hollywood, the podcast about how

1:02

to be happier, healthier, saner,

1:04

more creative, more successful and

1:06

more productive and a backbiting,

1:09

superficial, chaotic, unpredictable, fundamentally insane

1:11

world. I'm Liz Kraft, a

1:13

TV writer and producer living in LA and

1:15

with me is my high school friend and

1:17

writing partner Sarah. That's me,

1:19

Sarah Fain. On this podcast, we talk

1:21

about being writers in Hollywood, how we

1:23

balance a career and friendship and how

1:25

to survive the war of attrition that

1:27

is life in Los Angeles. Today,

1:29

we're going to talk about the

1:31

power of encouragement. Then we have

1:33

a mail room question about how

1:35

to deal with the frustration of

1:37

being treated unfairly and a lunch

1:40

related work from home segment. We

1:42

also have a foot saving Hollywood

1:44

hack and Sarah has a wreck

1:46

that will make your roommates or

1:48

family come in your room to

1:50

ask what you're laughing at so

1:52

loudly. Sarah, before we dive

1:54

in, I'll mention that you are fighting a

1:56

cold. So if your voice sounds a little

1:58

hoarse today, that's it. That's why. Yes,

2:01

I feel a little foggy, so this episode

2:03

could be like the drunk history episode of

2:06

this podcast. I think

2:08

you will maintain your clarity of

2:10

thought. We'll

2:12

see. Okay, we're gonna start

2:14

off with from the treadmill desk of

2:16

where we discuss what's most pressing in

2:19

our work psyches, and this week, it's

2:21

taking the time to encourage someone. So,

2:23

Sarah, it is a tough time in

2:26

Hollywood. One might say it's always a

2:28

tough time when you're starting out in

2:30

Hollywood. It's not easy, but

2:32

recently, a friend of ours, Bill

2:34

Krebs, he's been on the podcast

2:36

before talking about the anxiety of

2:38

being a writer, a television writer,

2:41

he sent a text about how he

2:43

had encouraged Brooke, our former assistant turned

2:46

television writer, and we were so taken

2:48

with it and with our own stories

2:50

of having been encouraged that we wanted

2:53

to talk about it. Yeah, so Bill

2:55

texted to let us know he had

2:57

read Brooke, and he shared the feedback

2:59

that he gave her, which just, of

3:02

course, made our hearts sing. He said,

3:05

so I read your script. I like

3:07

your writing very much. I've actually never

3:09

read anything from you before. You totally

3:11

have a voice. You also have a

3:13

subtlety to your writing that is hard

3:15

to find. You don't overwrite. Your descriptions,

3:17

actions are concise and quick, and you

3:19

don't drown the reader in pipe. In

3:21

fact, you had very little expo, and

3:23

I totally knew the world without it,

3:25

which is the goal. You

3:28

are talented. You need to keep going.

3:30

He's just saying all the

3:33

wonderful things that you dream of

3:35

hearing from someone who

3:37

is a showrunner level writer. It

3:39

made me cry when we read that text.

3:42

Yes, because of course we know all this

3:44

about Brooke. We know how talented she is.

3:46

We've hired her on two shows, but we

3:48

love it when others not only

3:50

agree, but tell her,

3:53

because you need to hear

3:55

that. And of course Brooke was thrilled to

3:57

get these texts. And then Sarah,

3:59

he went on. on to say to her,

4:01

here's what you should feel really good about.

4:03

You earned your place on the fix in

4:05

Fantasy Island. Those are the shows

4:07

we hired Brooke on. You didn't just get hired

4:10

because of Liz and Sarah. I know

4:12

that 100 percent after reading

4:14

you, and so will everyone else.

4:17

How fantastic also of Bill

4:19

to take the time to

4:22

reach out to Brooke, and then to let

4:24

us know he reached out to Brooke. And

4:26

Sarah reminded us of like

4:28

a moment in our career, I know we've

4:31

talked about it, that made a huge difference.

4:33

Yes, we were submitted, and this is a

4:35

very long time ago, for the American version

4:37

of the show Queer as Folk, which was

4:40

being run by Richard Kramer, who's an amazing

4:42

writer. He worked

4:44

with Ed Zwick and Marshall Herskovitz

4:46

forever, and that's how we

4:48

knew him. So he was running this show,

4:51

and we sent a spec of once and

4:53

again. I think it was the first drama

4:55

spec we ever wrote, wasn't it, Liz? Yes,

4:57

it was. And so he read it for

4:59

that show, and we

5:01

were at a really, really

5:03

low point. Like we were like, are we ever

5:06

going to get hired? What are

5:08

we doing? Everything felt

5:10

really, really hard. And

5:13

I still remember I got home

5:15

to my little duplex

5:17

on Normandy, and

5:19

there was a message on my answering

5:21

machine at that point, and I

5:24

played it, and it was from

5:26

Richard Kramer, and he basically

5:28

said, you know, if I were

5:31

running once and again, I would have bought this script

5:33

and shot it. And he just

5:35

went on about how great he thought the script

5:37

was, and my knees buckled.

5:39

I was standing, and then my knees

5:42

buckled, and I was crying. Like

5:44

it was that powerful. Well, and

5:46

then, Sarah, you called me, and

5:49

you were sobbing, and I thought

5:51

something horrible had happened. I was

5:53

panicking. You could not get the

5:55

words out. And then once

5:57

you finally did, of course, then I was.

6:00

crying too, because we just

6:02

needed that word of encouragement

6:04

to go on. And then

6:06

Richard also was so

6:08

nice. He actually went to dinner with us and

6:11

gave us advice and encouragement. And we

6:13

didn't get a job on that show,

6:15

but it didn't matter. What

6:17

mattered is just being acknowledged that we

6:19

were on the right path. And

6:23

it kept us going. Yes. And he

6:25

was someone we had so much respect

6:27

for. And we know how much respect

6:30

Brooke has for Bill when it comes

6:32

from someone who really means so much

6:34

to you. It's just so huge. I

6:36

mean, it really does give you that

6:39

extra juice you need to keep from

6:41

running your way out of town. Yes.

6:44

And one thing we were talking about, Sarah, is that,

6:47

yes, you can do this if you're at

6:49

a high level in whatever position you are,

6:51

you know, whatever career to a lower

6:53

level person coming up. But

6:56

you can also give this encouragement

6:58

if you are in an entry

7:00

level job, because there is somebody

7:02

else who would love to have

7:04

that entry level job wherever you

7:06

are. So you always are in

7:08

a position to give encouragement. And

7:11

I think it's good for the person

7:13

getting it, obviously, but it's also good

7:15

to give it because, again, we talk

7:17

about like whenever you're giving advice, whenever

7:19

you're an expert, it kind of cements

7:21

your own identity. So I

7:23

think it's good for both people. But

7:25

it really especially is just kind of

7:27

a gift to give somebody who's coming

7:30

up at whatever level. Yeah. And I

7:32

think often we don't do that because,

7:34

oh, I have to write an extra

7:36

email, I have to send an extra text. I'm in the

7:38

middle of all these things. It won't really matter. But

7:41

the point is, it really, really does. It

7:44

matters. It absolutely matters. I mean,

7:46

it can be the difference between

7:50

moving forward and not moving forward. So you

7:52

don't know what impact you're going to have

7:54

on somebody, just like a word can

7:56

really make the difference. Absolutely. A

8:00

happy subject today. Sarah, it's nice to talk

8:02

about something happy and positive. Especially when it

8:04

relates to Brooke, because we love her so

8:07

much. Coming up, we've got

8:09

a mailroom segment about how to deal

8:11

with a tough situation at work. But

8:13

first, this break. ["Ain't

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11:10

She said, I was to be

11:13

working on a gig that I was very

11:15

excited about for my next step. It's such

11:17

a long time coming. I've had such a

11:19

history of being screwed over by people in

11:22

productions that I thought this was that bit

11:24

of bad luck behind me with this exciting

11:26

booking. I was nothing but

11:29

communicative and tried to be accommodating,

11:31

but the communication between apartments has

11:33

proven itself again and again to

11:35

be atrocious. Because of this

11:37

lack of communication and no one getting

11:39

back to me and confirming schedule changes

11:41

when they knew about it, which was

11:43

literally weeks before I heard about it, the

11:46

flexible travel that I had booked for

11:48

this self-paid travel was too close to

11:51

be reasonable, and though this

11:53

fault was clearly on the production end and I

11:55

expressed some of my frustration, what I heard from

11:57

there and was, well, we can replace you if

11:59

you... I no longer want to come. And

12:02

my money was already tied up in

12:04

travel arrangements. The people I'm

12:06

working with would be great contacts to

12:09

have and aren't directly screwing me over,

12:11

but not exactly helping either. And I

12:13

don't want to feel the bitterness that

12:15

I do for having to foot the

12:17

excess bill for production as a whole

12:19

dropping the ball when it

12:21

is a big company and an expensive

12:23

production to boot and the whole situation

12:25

is totally unfair. Then she

12:27

says, I know not everything is fair, but

12:29

fairness is sometimes a trigger for me. And

12:31

this is really triggering me. How

12:34

do you let go of the anger

12:36

slash bitterness and make the most out

12:38

of things when it seems that the

12:40

hurt feelings want to stick around? All

12:44

right, Sarah, this is a situation I

12:46

think many people have been in. So

12:49

you have the chance for a job,

12:51

but it's gonna end up sort of

12:53

costing you a lot to

12:55

just do the job so you're not making

12:57

a lot. I would say we

12:59

don't necessarily have to put money out for travel,

13:01

but we do have to do a lot of

13:03

free work. So I can

13:05

relate very much to this question. Now

13:08

you had a thought of how she might

13:10

handle it. What I suggested

13:12

is that she just goes straight

13:14

to the line

13:16

producer. It turns out on this, there wasn't

13:19

a line producer, but whoever the head person

13:21

of the production is and

13:23

just very calmly say, this is what

13:25

happened. These are my travel receipts I'd

13:27

like to be reimbursed. Because

13:30

part of the frustration is feeling

13:32

powerless. And at least taking

13:35

that step, whether it works out or

13:37

not, you've done the primary

13:39

thing that you can do to solve

13:41

the problem. Yes, and I think what

13:43

you're saying is go to the line producer as

13:45

opposed to going to the head of the department

13:48

because the head of the department might not want

13:50

to go to the line producer because they don't

13:52

want to be the squeaky wheel. Whereas

13:55

the line producer probably isn't going

13:58

to be angry that you went here. or she

14:00

might say no, but they

14:02

likely won't be upset that you

14:04

went to them. Right, especially because

14:07

this is a very rational thing

14:09

to be upset about. And the

14:11

other thing is that it's not personal. So

14:14

many times in this business, we

14:16

have been screwed over in the

14:19

most ridiculous ways, and you do

14:21

get really frustrated because these are

14:23

massive companies with just unbelievable amounts

14:25

of money. And then

14:27

they're going to quibble about the $100 it

14:31

really can be maddening,

14:33

but knowing that it's not us,

14:36

knowing that it's happening all

14:38

across town and the world,

14:42

it really does help. Yes,

14:44

knowing it's not personal is

14:46

crucial. And we

14:48

absolutely agree that if you're going to

14:50

do the job, have a

14:52

good attitude because nothing is worse

14:54

than showing up and having a

14:57

bad attitude. That will

14:59

keep you from working again. That

15:01

can spread. People can say, oh,

15:03

so-and-so came and they just complained

15:06

and they were such a pain.

15:09

So if you're going to do it, even

15:11

if you're absolutely faking it 100%, have

15:15

a good attitude, appear at least to have

15:17

a good attitude. Yes, because also then she

15:19

will get out of this job what she

15:22

wanted to get out of it, which is

15:24

an advancement, a step

15:26

forward. I'm assuming anonymous

15:28

is a she, but it could also be a

15:30

he, but they will get what they hope to

15:32

get out of this job. If

15:34

they really just jump into it 100%

15:39

with a positive attitude, I totally agree. Just

15:41

also know you're not alone. This

15:44

kind of thing happens to everyone.

15:46

Everyone suffers these frustrations. It's not

15:49

just you. Good luck and

15:51

glad that you're doing the job. I

15:53

think that's the right call. All right,

15:55

Liz. We have now a

15:57

H I H W F A.

16:00

a happier in Hollywood work from

16:02

home segment about Zoom

16:04

lunches. Yes, so many

16:07

of us are still working from home,

16:09

if not full-time, at least part-time, and

16:11

it seems that will be the case

16:13

for, you know, ever at this point.

16:16

So one thing we have

16:18

joined is a

16:21

Zoom lunch group. So

16:23

we mentioned recently that we've joined

16:25

a career group, a group with

16:27

other female showrunners, and

16:30

once a month we have a

16:32

Zoom lunch group. So it's at

16:34

one o'clock, everybody just shows up

16:36

as they are on Zoom. You

16:38

can eat or not, and we

16:40

just talk, and it's about an hour,

16:43

and you share what's going on.

16:46

You can ask each other questions,

16:49

and it's just a really nice way

16:51

to connect. We talked about before

16:53

how there was a Zoom meeting that I didn't want

16:55

to go to, and then you

16:58

were like, no, you should go, and I did,

17:00

and I'm so glad that I did. Because

17:03

part of the thing about working from home

17:05

is it does get very isolating, but it

17:07

doesn't have to be so isolating. And just

17:09

doing this once a month has

17:12

been so lovely, and I really

17:14

feel more connected to our industry,

17:18

to other women showrunners. It's

17:21

just a really good thing to do, and it

17:23

doesn't have to be business. That's the other thing

17:25

we were talking about. It doesn't have to be

17:27

a business lunch. Yes, for instance, you and I

17:30

have our friend Todd, who's been on the podcast,

17:32

a friend of ours from high school, and

17:34

we were saying, we should do this with

17:36

Todd. Have a once a month Zoom lunch

17:38

together and just chat and catch up, because

17:41

that connection is so great, and

17:43

yet it's so easy to go

17:45

months and months without having it.

17:47

Yes, and I had lunch with Todd

17:50

in human form, in person a few

17:52

weeks ago, and we talked for two

17:54

hours, just like blah, blah, blah, blah,

17:56

blah, because of course we have

17:58

so much history and so much to talk about. And

18:00

it would be nice if we could do

18:02

that more often, which we can't do

18:04

in person. We live all over different.

18:07

I'm an Ohio Uranus, you know, he's

18:09

in Glendale. We're probably not gonna have

18:11

lunch in person that often, but we

18:14

can totally do it on Zoom. Yes,

18:16

and the other thing I wanna point

18:18

out, Sarah, is that with this group

18:20

of showrunners, we actually met

18:22

for drinks the other night, some of

18:24

us. So the virtual

18:26

meeting led to an actual

18:29

in-person meeting. And,

18:31

you know, seeing people more in person and

18:33

building bonds and socializing is something that I'm

18:35

always trying to focus on and do more

18:38

of. So I love that

18:40

the virtual led to the actual in-person

18:42

bonding. So whatever industry or whatever group

18:44

you feel like you wanna connect with

18:46

more, just have a Zoom lunch. Yeah,

18:49

and set it up as a regular

18:51

thing. I think that's a key to

18:53

any group. It's always good to have

18:55

it set as like once a month,

18:58

and then if it gets canceled, it

19:00

gets canceled, but it's more likely to

19:02

happen if it's on the calendar.

19:05

Absolutely. Okay, coming up,

19:07

we have a Hollywood hack that

19:09

could save your sensitive feet, but

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20:01

Back pocket four, Doncic. The

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TuneIn app to start listening. Okay,

20:22

Sarah, we are back with this week's Hollywood

20:24

hack. This is a hack that comes from

20:26

a gift I got from

20:29

Gretchen, my sister, co-host of Happier with

20:31

Gretchen Rubin. In my Christmas stocking this

20:33

year, she gave me

20:35

something called Foot Pedals

20:38

Blister Prevention Anti-Friction Stick.

20:40

How's that for a

20:42

name of a product?

20:45

It's like a little travel

20:48

deodorant size stick to

20:50

prevent blisters. What you do is you

20:52

rub it on your feet in

20:55

areas where you think you might get a blister

20:57

before you put on your shoes so that they

20:59

slide, they don't chafe against

21:01

the shoe. And

21:04

I was sort of dubious as to whether this

21:06

would actually work, but I have

21:08

a pair of shoes, I have these gold sandals

21:10

that I love. I debated between getting

21:12

an eight and eight and a half. I got the

21:14

eight and I have come to regret it because I

21:17

always get blisters when I wear the

21:19

shoes. So the other day I

21:21

put this on and Sarah, the shoes

21:23

were completely comfortable. That's incredible. I am

21:26

always afraid of wearing shoes that are

21:28

even just like the tiniest bit too

21:30

small. Again, it is just

21:32

the tiniest bit, but this made it

21:34

so that my foot just was smooth

21:37

against the sides of the shoes. And

21:40

I used it again this weekend,

21:42

again, it worked. So I am

21:44

such a convert to

21:46

this Foot Pedals Blistic, and

21:49

it's $12, $15, something like that, very affordable, much

21:54

easier than trying to put band-aids on your toes

21:56

and on the sides of your feet, which is

21:59

what I love. that I often do to

22:01

try to prevent blisters. And I

22:03

feel like it never really works. This

22:06

worked for me much better than doing that.

22:08

I always travel with blister band-aids because

22:10

I know I'm going to get blisters

22:13

and then I'm prepared to deal with

22:15

it after, but how amazing to just

22:17

not get them in the first place.

22:19

Yes, so I really recommend trying this,

22:21

very affordable and very effective. And I

22:23

feel like in summer, when you're wearing

22:25

sandals that you maybe haven't worn for

22:27

a long time, the thing between your

22:30

toes, straps, there's a lot

22:32

of possibility for blisters in the

22:34

summer. Okay, Liz, every

22:37

week we do a recommendation,

22:39

something we like, it

22:41

could be a podcast, a movie, a

22:43

TV show, or just something we've decided

22:45

we're super passionate about. And this week,

22:47

it's a comedy special on Amazon Prime.

22:50

Tig Notaro's Hello Again. Okay,

22:53

I am stealing this wreck from you because

22:55

you told me about this. And

22:57

then I was watching it in my

23:00

room one night and I was laughing

23:02

so hard that halfway through, Violet

23:05

came in my room and she was like,

23:07

what is going on in here? Like, what

23:09

are you doing? What are you watching? Right?

23:12

And so I was like, oh, I'm watching this

23:14

comedy special. She sat down, she made me rewind

23:16

the whole thing. So I've seen the first half

23:18

twice and we watched it

23:20

together, which totally appropriate for

23:22

people of all ages. It

23:24

was so funny. We

23:26

were both just rolling. You know, I

23:29

recommend things to you all the time

23:31

and sometimes you watch them or read

23:33

them and sometimes you don't, but there

23:35

are occasions where I say to you,

23:37

I want you to watch this or

23:39

read this now. One that comes to

23:41

mind is Twilight. I

23:43

had an advanced copy of Twilight and

23:46

I made you go home and read it

23:48

that night. I was like, do not come

23:50

back to this office until you

23:52

have started reading Twilight. And

23:55

that's how the Tignatara was saying. I was

23:57

like, you need to watch this. Like you

23:59

go. I'm telling you, so I

24:01

was very gratified then when you texted me how much you

24:04

loved it. Well, here's what you said that

24:06

made me go, okay, I have to do this right now.

24:08

You said you were silent laughing. Yes.

24:11

Like that laugh where you can't even get

24:13

sound out. I was just sitting in the

24:15

office, silent laughing, and I'm not a big

24:17

laugher in general. So

24:20

the fact that I was sitting there by

24:22

myself, silent laughing, said something. Tignataro

24:25

is just one of the

24:27

most appealing people on

24:30

the planet, and she's so funny. She really

24:32

is. And I have to say her first

24:35

special, I don't remember the name of it,

24:37

but her first special, also

24:40

just unbelievably funny and really

24:42

moving and powerful and just

24:44

incredible. I'm a big Tignataro

24:46

fan. Yeah, so hello again

24:48

on Amazon Prime. You will

24:51

enjoy it. And

24:53

that is it for this episode of

24:55

Happier in Hollywood. We love hearing from

24:58

you. Email us or send us a

25:00

voice memo to happierinhollywood@gmail.com. Thanks

25:02

for listening, and please follow us if

25:05

you haven't already. Thanks to our executive

25:07

producer, Chuck Reed, and thanks to everyone

25:09

at Sancola Sound. You can follow them

25:11

on Instagram, at Sancola Sound. Thank you

25:14

to everyone at Odyssey. And as always,

25:16

thank you to Gretchen Rubin. Happier in

25:18

Hollywood is part of the Onward Project.

25:20

Listen to the other Onward Project podcasts,

25:22

Happier with Gretchen Rubin and Side Hustle

25:24

School. Get in touch, I'm on Instagram

25:27

and threads, at Liz Craft and Sarah

25:29

is at S. Fane. We also have

25:31

a Facebook group. Search for Happier in

25:33

Hollywood on Facebook to join the conversation.

25:35

Until next week, I'm Sarah Fane. And

25:38

I'm Liz Craft. Thanks for joining us.

25:40

It's a fun job. And we enjoy it.

25:56

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25:59

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