0:01

Previously on Happy Face. I

0:03

got a phone call and this guy says,

0:06

I know where you're at. You're in the

0:08

kitchen and you're wearing this.

0:11

Keith states that he hired somewhat.

0:13

My mom had just said that her and my

0:15

dad were separating, which I did believe. I

0:18

wanted to keep like you guys baby

0:20

pictures and he chucked out

0:22

all up. He wasn't exactly a

0:25

faithful class. Oh absolutely

0:27

not tell me about your wedding day. They

0:29

were doing pictures of me and I guess

0:31

he was outside kissing the bridesmaids,

0:34

my best friend. After

0:36

the second murder the Happy Face, Keller says

0:39

he realized he liked what he was doing. This

0:42

triggered something to me. He said, it

0:44

was getting easy Ez.

0:47

The first year with Melissa had went

0:49

through two fires. Keith take

0:52

the vent. I had a

0:54

little toilet cover and it caught it

0:56

on fire, and the whole bathroom was a golf

0:59

van. Shortly after that, we

1:02

go camping and then I

1:04

heard a bear. He cleaned

1:06

fish in front of the cabin and he

1:09

was sleeping in the car. He started killing

1:11

in and he stopped in The

1:14

five years is not isolated the event. It was

1:16

an escalation. I think

1:19

he was groomed to be who he is and

1:22

the fight with

1:27

the sun don't shine?

1:31

Oh,

1:35

oh nice room.

1:46

One of the biggest questions you're faced with

1:49

when looking at the lives of serial killers

1:52

is where did it all begin? What

1:54

makes a person become a killer? Is

1:57

it something that's passed down through generations

2:00

or is there a single moment that can turn

2:02

someone from a normal human being with a job

2:05

and a family into a monster?

2:08

Our serial killers made or

2:10

are they born? I'm

2:13

Lauren Bright Pacheco, and this is

2:16

happy face. I

2:21

remember the first time I saw my

2:24

father in prison, and

2:26

the first thing he said to me was, Missy,

2:30

do you want to know why? And

2:32

at the time, I couldn't. I

2:36

couldn't handle the answer, and honestly,

2:39

I thought whatever he was going to tell me would

2:42

be just him trying to justify what

2:45

he's done or to minimize what

2:47

he's done, and so I didn't want

2:50

some pacifying answer, so

2:53

I said no. And

2:56

I've regretted that moment for

2:58

so many years now because as

3:01

I want to know why,

3:15

why about my father had an interest

3:17

in crime was because he wanted to become

3:19

a police officer in Canada. He wanted

3:22

to be a mountee and

3:24

he was declined from becoming that

3:26

because of an injury he sustained

3:29

in high school. What

3:31

he told me is that in gym class they

3:34

do this rope exercise where they climbed the

3:36

rope to the ceiling of the gym,

3:38

which is quite high.

3:41

They say now when

3:43

they interview killers, people

3:46

who have been perpetually in jail, they

3:48

have found that a large percentage of them

3:51

had damaged their front palo before

3:53

they were twenty two, changes their

3:55

whole personality. Um

3:58

Keith fell in high school. I

4:00

believe he was on

4:02

the very top of the rope and I let go. He

4:05

fell to the gym floor. He

4:11

sustained a head injury and broke his hip,

4:13

and this impacted his ability

4:16

to join the force. I

4:18

don't believe my dad ever got over that. It

4:21

was something that he carried

4:23

on in conversations, but there

4:25

was a sense of resentment that

4:28

he was now a long haul truck driver

4:31

when he could have had this other life that

4:33

was just

4:35

out of his grasp. M

4:46

But as Melissa's mom Rose told us,

4:49

she really thinks that Keith was conditioned

4:51

to be a killer, groomed to be

4:53

one by his own father Less, and

4:56

that's something we felt we had to explore

5:02

from I The Creation of a Serial

5:04

Killer by Jack Olsen, The

5:07

Jesperson children grew up in a rural atmosphere,

5:10

first in chili Wack, British Columbia, later

5:13

two fifty miles south in Salo, Washington,

5:16

an apple scented orchard community of ten

5:18

thousand. Keith's perpetually

5:21

mobile father built the family's chili Wack

5:23

home on land his ancestors homestead.

5:25

In nineteen o nine, moved the

5:27

house from the city to a pastoral area

5:29

outside of town. Cleared five acres

5:31

with a borrowed bulldozer, built a

5:33

barn with aloft for his children, and

5:36

a wooden bridge big enough for the family horses

5:38

to cross the little creek that rose from the springs

5:40

above the property line. Later,

5:43

he dammed the creek and built

5:45

a water wheel to trap chinook and silver

5:47

salmon as they swam up from the Vetter

5:49

River to spawn. If

5:57

you read Jack Olsen's biography of Key

6:00

the way in which he describes Keith's father

6:03

Less, it's very clear that

6:05

Less was a very resourceful, ingenious

6:09

man, the kind of guy who could build

6:11

a barn from scratch or create

6:14

a water wheel to catch fish for dinner.

6:17

But what also is clear is

6:20

that he could be a monster. We

6:24

decided that we didn't want to live

6:26

near your grandfather anymore. He

6:29

was horrible. I hated him.

6:31

Really m hm. Yeah.

6:33

He would without warning open

6:36

up the door to our house and he goes,

6:38

we just sleep with me, do you

6:40

to me? I had no idea

6:44

your father in law. Your

6:46

father in law hit on you. Yes, more

6:50

than once, like oh yeah, I would be

6:52

I'd be sitting right next to Keith and

6:55

he would come in. He'd pinch me,

6:57

and I was thinking, Keith, what are you doing? And then

6:59

I see his hand and they start giggling.

7:02

I don't know who. I was more angry with Keith

7:04

for not protecting me or

7:07

for less for doing it. So you

7:09

think Keith knew his father would make

7:11

passes at you, Well, he was right there

7:15

and they thought it was a joke. And

7:18

the only time I was saved is when

7:20

I was partnant with Melissa. Then I was

7:22

off the tables. Keith's

7:34

attitude towards marriage very

7:37

much mirrored the relationship

7:39

he saw unfold between his own father

7:41

and his mother, Gladys I

7:45

mean, I knew that last beat

7:47

the kids a lot. I

7:50

don't know if he beat Gladys

7:52

or not, but I know that

7:55

there was problems between Gladys

7:57

and Lass because when we were

7:59

for was married. He goes, I

8:01

have to go down to the house and they go okay.

8:04

So he went down to the house, came

8:07

back and he was really visibly upset.

8:09

I said, so, what went on? He goes, yeah, Mom

8:11

and dad got in a fight, and I guess Dad cut

8:14

every telephone wire in the house. It

8:17

was less a drinker. He was a heavy

8:19

alcoholic. One

8:39

of the few people that Keith opened up

8:41

to about his childhood was a true

8:44

crime author and psychologist

8:46

named al Carlyle. Melissa

8:49

met him almost completely by chance.

8:52

I was invited to go to crime con

8:55

and this gentleman approached the booth and

8:58

he said, hey, you know, I've I've

9:00

got this author who's working

9:02

on serial killers. And

9:04

he said, well, his name is al Carlysle and

9:08

he studied Ted Bundy and

9:10

he's working on a chapter of the serial killer named

9:12

Keith Hunter Jasperson. So when I

9:14

got that calm, I called him

9:16

immediately and I loved

9:19

his perspective. He had stories

9:21

that I've never even heard of before, about the

9:23

man I thought I knew. Unfortunately,

9:30

the night before we were supposed

9:33

to interview Al Carlyle, he passed

9:35

away in his sleep, and

9:38

it was heartbreaking. He was such a fascinating,

9:41

brilliant man. But we

9:43

were able to reach out to Stephen Booth, his

9:45

publisher, and also to

9:48

carry Ann Keller, who was his researcher

9:50

and writing assistant. Keith

9:53

felt that Al had a real mission to understand

9:55

by my behavior, so that was their common ground.

9:58

They each felt the other could provide

10:01

valuable information.

10:04

Once Al was up there interviewing

10:07

Keith, and Keith said

10:09

to Al, I could reach over

10:11

this table and snap your head before

10:13

the guard would even notice. I

10:16

don't because I don't want to lose my privileges.

10:20

He wasn't threatening Al. He was

10:22

just making a point about his size. Okay,

10:24

So that's how you have to understand how Keith

10:27

could talk. So it's like being in

10:29

a room with a loaded gun. Oh

10:31

yeah, for sure, definitely

10:34

you feel it. My

10:36

name is Stephen Booth. I

10:39

have been the publisher at Genius

10:41

Book Publishing since two thousand

10:43

eleven. Keith Jefferson was

10:46

in a situation where he had a very manipulative father.

10:48

The father, by the way, freaks me out. He

10:50

had a very manipulative father. He was required

10:53

to be obedient at all times,

10:55

he was given conflicting information about

10:58

what ethical standards were and how

11:01

to behave, and he

11:03

was isolated from his family, even by

11:05

his own siblings. What's

11:10

incredible, though, is that Al Carlisle's

11:12

family gave us the tapes of

11:15

his interviews with Jesperson in prison,

11:18

and you can hear the

11:21

intimate details and how

11:23

much Keith opened up to him. Brad

11:27

was a younger, bruceus

11:29

the oldest. When did they start

11:31

calling you? Igor? Was my junior

11:35

high I was in

11:37

eighth grade, and then Brad was in the seventh grade

11:41

and he wanted to be big with his

11:43

friends, so he started calling

11:45

me Igor because of the Monster movies. And

11:48

I figured I was his sidekick. Big

11:51

physically at the time and slow

11:54

slow physically. Well I

11:56

was. I was. I was big, and I was

11:59

not very well core ordinated intelligence.

12:03

I'm very intelligent, but I just didn't adapt

12:05

myself to it. Keith

12:12

was made to pay his own room and board when

12:14

the other kids were not made to do that, so he would

12:16

be an example to the other siblings.

12:19

And this was when he was twelve thirteen years

12:21

old, precisely. Yes, you

12:23

know, the father forced him to work. He got paid

12:26

a pittance. Most of that money went

12:28

back to ruin the board and whatever was left

12:30

over, the father basically took out of the bank account.

12:33

And whenever he got into trouble, everybody

12:36

pointed the finger at Keith.

12:38

His siblings did, his father, did, his friends

12:41

did? He was isolated, harboring

12:43

a lot of resentment, violent

12:46

rage like resentment towards

12:48

his father. And I mean, what was that story

12:51

about him? Uh, the boy when

12:53

he was about eight years old who kept blaming him

12:55

for things, and then Keith let

12:57

loose and tried to beat him to death. I

12:59

have a memory that kid. Yeah,

13:02

he was just he was. Every

13:04

time he he would

13:06

say, well Keith did this, and Keith did that,

13:08

and and I'd get the belt and I'd

13:10

get nailed and I'd get punished and

13:12

so forth. He sent back laugh ha ha

13:14

ha, this is funny. And one

13:17

day I caught him

13:19

off the back there when he was ready to scream Keith

13:21

that, and I was beating him down or to death. When

13:25

I was about eight years old, the time when

13:28

you were eating the kid, did

13:31

you feel you're in control? Did you just lose

13:33

it with his song? Just lost it? I

13:35

didn't. I didn't. I don't think they had anything

13:37

to do with control, and just had paybacks

13:40

a bit, you know, And I

13:42

just grabbed him and just started wailing him. Of course

13:44

I didn't know him to stop, and I was going to beat

13:46

him to death. He

13:52

was put in a position where he could

13:54

not win, and

13:57

he could not take his rage out on his father,

13:59

because father I had have dialed in. So he took

14:01

his rage out on the closest person to him,

14:03

who was embarrassing him.

14:07

You know, I'm sure taught him a less So even

14:09

by the age of eight, it was a

14:11

lot of anger. Yeah, there was anger there.

14:14

Anger, Yeah, you're doing me wrong.

14:17

It was like, yeah, I was you doing

14:19

me wrong? I was just I was gonna. I was bounding

14:21

and termined to get even from

14:33

I. The Creation of a Serial Killer

14:36

by Jack Olsen. Sometimes

14:39

the Jesperson males proud the creek banks

14:41

for muskrats. I'd yank one

14:43

out of the water by its tail and throw it

14:45

up on the bank. Then Dad

14:48

or one of my brothers would club it to death. We

14:51

also killed gophers, hundreds of

14:53

them. They were a farm pest, and nobody

14:55

missed him. Dad

14:57

has films of us boys blood splattered

14:59

from killing gophers and other varmints. It

15:02

was our form of recreation. After

15:05

we grew up and got married, Dad liked to

15:07

show the film to our wives. He

15:09

would joke watch my natural

15:11

born killers as they dispense of their victims.

15:15

You don't want to run into them in a dark alley.

15:35

Based on their jail health interview. What

15:37

did I'll make of my dad's

15:39

childhood? He was fascinated

15:43

by his passivity, you know, Keith's passivity

15:46

as a child. This uh economist

15:48

behavior of a shy and passive child

15:51

who becomes fully the opposite as

15:53

an adult was very

15:55

interesting to him.

15:57

He understood how Keith is

16:00

bitter about the control his father had over him.

16:03

He knew he wasn't able to stand up to his father's

16:05

dominance. But Keith accepted

16:07

it, you know, as his lot

16:09

in life, and

16:13

he kind of liked it because well,

16:15

he did full trapped by his father. He

16:18

was afraid of his father, but he also had a strong desire

16:20

to have his dad love him.

16:23

I feared my grandfather, like

16:26

even though he never hit me. I

16:28

was terrified at my grandfather being angry

16:31

with me because I don't know what he would do, like

16:34

maybe even know about the motorcycle story.

16:36

I do. I do. So

16:41

he has this motorcycle

16:44

Keith that he saved

16:46

up money for a brand new motorcycle.

16:48

Okay, it's not a piece of junk like from

16:50

Cobble Together Junkyard. I

16:53

had bought in a seven fifty

16:55

hanted motorcycle. It was a

16:58

brand new gold and Mattel

17:00

out orange, you know, like a bright orange

17:02

colored, a beautiful bike. And

17:06

it came hunting season and I

17:08

was working for Dad at the time, and

17:10

Brad and I wanted to go hunting over on the coast by

17:12

Clamba. Of course we need a four world drive

17:15

and I was going to use the company pickup. Well, I

17:17

said, Dad, can I use the company pick him? He says, shirty

17:21

but one stipulation

17:23

and I knew it was coming, and he he said, you leave

17:25

me your motorcycle out and so I could go on

17:27

a motorcycle ride with that. And I said no, because

17:30

you're gonna get drunk and you're gonna get on it. You're

17:32

gonna erect the bike. Oh, I probably

17:34

ain't gonna drink, and I said, no false

17:38

promises. You know, well, in order

17:40

for me to get the pickup, I had to give him the bike.

17:52

So I get to pick up, and I load up and hunting

17:54

supplies and we take off over the climb and we

17:56

have a hell of nice time all weekend long cut.

18:00

In the morning on Monday morning, I go back to the

18:02

dump truck in the backyard. We have a swimming

18:04

pool to dig that day. And

18:06

I walked through the back door and said, where the hell's

18:08

Dad at? We got the swimming pool the dig over

18:10

here, and Mom said, oh, you

18:13

don't know. He says he wrecked the motorcycle.

18:15

He's in the hospital. And

18:23

I guess Keith was an architect trip or something. What

18:26

happened when he came back. Well, then Keith

18:28

had to run the businesses. He had to

18:30

do everything. He was the sole provider for two

18:33

families, his dad and mine

18:35

ours. And

18:38

so I call up the company that the people

18:40

that were going to the swimming pool told Hi, I wouldn't

18:42

be there with my dad's in the hospital, and I have to go take

18:44

care of business. So

18:47

I go to Sainting Hospital and there,

18:49

his dad up there on the floor and he's

18:52

they operated on Rupert's planing and his face

18:54

is all bandaged up, kind of nose

18:56

and donner off. He

19:00

hit bob wire and

19:02

I cut up his intestines. He had a big

19:04

scar and he had a big scar in his face.

19:07

I get up there and he's like looking at me, and I

19:09

said, well, what happened? Dad? It's you gotta

19:12

you gotta get back to that motorcycle. You gotta

19:14

you gotta take care of all the evidence. You gotta

19:16

take care of it. I said, what what do you

19:18

mean to take curses? Go get rid

19:20

of that. So you've been drinking, he said,

19:23

just take care of it away. You said, we don't want that

19:25

insurance company knowing that I was ride and

19:27

drunk right, keep

19:30

drink? No, no, it's absolutely

19:32

no alcohol. He was the only

19:34

one out of all my aunts and uncles that didn't drink at

19:36

all. I said, And

19:39

you didn't drink either. You and dad didn't

19:41

drink at all and are growing up. No,

19:43

because my father was an alcoholic too,

19:45

And so you either choose it or you don't. And I

19:47

chose not to, and that's your dad

19:50

chose not to drink either. But

19:52

I get up to my dad and I sapped the hospital

19:54

and my mom's there and I said, well, Dad, I got rid of

19:57

all that. And he said, good good, good goodness.

19:59

Now why would you anything on my Morgan my motorcycle,

20:01

says I wasn't drinking on your motorcycle.

20:05

Yes, your wordes says, prove it. You

20:09

can't prove it. So you got rid of all the evidence

20:11

you can't prove ship. I'll

20:14

give you my

20:19

lega for your water. I'll

20:21

lave you drunk up whoa.

20:29

And that's basically how it all ends up. Everything

20:31

is I was covering up everything. I

20:35

say. I was like eighteen at that time. Yeah.

20:48

Less Basically sit made Keith go hide

20:51

the evidence so that he could get insurance money

20:53

that it didn't know. He wouldn't

20:55

surprise me because LUs was very

20:58

famous for that. His

21:00

business ethics of that was that the boss

21:03

was always right and the employees

21:06

were always wrong. The

21:09

heat, yes it did, and I'm just getting to that.

21:12

His His idea was that if

21:14

there's any problems that occurred on the job,

21:17

that I would get shipped

21:19

on and he would get the glory of

21:22

saying I'm sorry or whatever. Like that, I'll

21:24

it will never happen, you know which, I'll just make sure

21:26

my son never does and stuff again. So I was like

21:28

the blue an idiot, you know, doing all that.

21:31

And I kind of laughed one day because my

21:34

dad was on the back when he was digging next

21:36

to his house and he put the bucket

21:38

right through the side of the house. He has no depth perception.

21:41

That was one of his problems. He

21:44

stuck the buckets to the side of the house and the people

21:46

in the house and they were looking out and they saw him running

21:48

the bacco right and uh,

21:50

they come running out of the corner. But by

21:53

the time they got around to who the backle was,

21:55

he'd already stopped machine and he had

21:57

gotten me on that and they're looking

21:59

at him and the man and I said I

22:02

did it, and they

22:04

were like, why do you put up with that? I said,

22:06

that's the way it is. I am the

22:09

ship on less.

22:13

I told him this is the way what you're gonna say in

22:15

court. And

22:18

Keith did in order for them to

22:20

win a court case for the mobile part or

22:23

absolutely did it. Seems

22:25

like he wasn't the most honest man.

22:27

No, No, he wasn't. He

22:31

swindled people. I called him

22:33

a swindler, and he had a really

22:35

good lawyer. My

22:38

understanding is

22:41

that, how

22:43

do I say this? Left to his own devices, Keith

22:45

would have been a pretty happy

22:47

kid. He described his childhood as

22:50

being fairly happy, and

22:52

um, he would have probably not harvard

22:54

as much rage. He probably would

22:57

have been somebody who got along

22:59

with people. But from

23:01

al to me, from Keith to telling me

23:04

his childhood was more a matter of

23:07

he was the target. He was the scapegoat,

23:10

for lack of a better word, of

23:13

everybody's need to

23:16

avoid less his rage or

23:19

manipulation or whatever it is. He had

23:21

nobody backing him up, and he didn't

23:23

even know how to back himself up, so all he could do

23:26

was absorbed all this negative energy

23:29

about everything that was going on. Three

23:46

there's an interview with your dad

23:49

about your grandfather

23:51

made him go visit a friend of your

23:54

grandfather's who was dying, and

23:56

your dad was really resentful because he had to

23:58

go sit and make conversation him with this dying

24:00

man, because your grandfather said

24:02

nobody should have to die alone, and

24:06

your dad was talking to the guy before

24:08

he realized he had already passed away. I

24:10

had no idea about this. Dad

24:19

still treated me like the run of the litter, Daddy's

24:21

little helper. He dragged

24:23

me to a nursing home to visit one of his hunting

24:26

buddies. He said, my

24:28

friends, Smitty is not doing too good with his lung

24:30

cancer. Keith, I'm going out in the

24:32

hall talk to him. Son. Nobody

24:35

likes to die alone. I'm

24:39

sitting there listening to the rattily breathing,

24:42

watching his life drain out. After

24:45

a while, Smitty goes limp. I'm

24:48

holding his hand for ten or fifteen minutes

24:50

before I realize he's dead. On

24:54

our way home, he said, Keith,

24:57

someday you'll thank me for putting you through this.

25:01

I never feared a dead person after that. When

25:04

I was killing, I talked to my

25:06

victims as if they were still alive. It

25:10

was something to thank Dad for. My

25:17

Dad was really good about telling

25:19

his story, his narrative, and he

25:22

he beat everybody to the punch, and

25:24

it would just when

25:26

his story came forward, people always

25:29

judged everybody else's tail

25:31

against what he had to say.

25:34

My dad had ownership, like the truth was

25:36

his. He owned the truth and

25:39

it was not debatable. His

25:41

air of certainty definitely

25:44

played a part in other people believing

25:46

in him, and why probably his his

25:49

victims believed in him

25:51

and trusted him over their own voices.

25:54

He exuded confidence and certainty

25:57

and and whatever he

25:59

said was true and you can rely upon it,

26:01

and and you could trust it. But

26:05

not really. May

26:17

I ask a question, Yes, why

26:20

is it that when Rose left Keith

26:23

and took the kids she went over to Lesser's

26:25

house? What do

26:27

you mean? The story

26:29

that I got was when she left and untied

26:32

the house, the first place

26:34

she went was Less's house. That is

26:36

a direct quote from the history that I

26:38

was reading this morning, and I can share that with you if you

26:40

need me to. From

26:43

from Keith. Yeah,

26:46

that's that's that's the story that I got.

26:48

It could I could be wrong, but that's the story

26:50

that that Al got. That's interesting that he would say

26:52

that I was there. That didn't

26:54

happen. I was there the day that they left.

26:57

That would make sense that my dad was shared that's

27:00

story to shame my

27:02

mother and put her into that frame

27:04

of light. Oh. I actually remember play by

27:06

play, a minute by minute of that day that they separated,

27:08

And there was not one single time that we went over

27:11

to my grandparents house. A matter of fact, they were

27:13

gone and there was not anything that we cleaned

27:15

down in that property because we left

27:17

in the four Topaz, which

27:19

is just a little family sedan. We

27:21

didn't take a single item from the house

27:24

other than the clothes that we needed for like

27:26

a couple of days. Wow.

27:29

So that is not the story that I got

27:31

from al from Keith. Yeah, so

27:34

that's interesting that he came up with this,

27:37

this new story, a new spin. So

27:40

I happened. Well, I'm glad I asked, because

27:43

honestly, I I I bought

27:45

the stories that Keith gave out,

27:48

you know, I mean, seem reasonable. She

27:50

left, she took everything, whether she went over to the father's

27:52

house. Some of this is fantasy.

27:54

Some of this is making Keith feel better about

27:56

himself. So how truthful

27:58

was he without Now

28:02

it's all right to lie, it's all right too to

28:05

be conniving and so forth.

28:07

You can. You can do that because you're an a dog.

28:09

You know you can do that. But when you're

28:11

a kid, you can't lie to your parents, you know, because

28:18

you know he called, you know you would call on us,

28:20

and I remember you comforting me after one particular

28:22

phone call where. Um, we were living

28:25

on a street over here,

28:27

and um, he called and said

28:31

he was suicidal because of having

28:33

paid child support. And then he because

28:36

it was such a burden for him.

28:38

And it made me upset because I felt

28:41

blamed. He's blaming me for having pay child

28:43

support. But then it went another step further. He

28:45

said, um, you know I drove

28:47

past the prison today, the organ State prison.

28:49

I just like chewed my horn and

28:52

said I'll be there soon, as

28:54

we said in the call. But I remember crying

28:57

and going to my room and

28:59

you came after me. You're like, what's wrong, Wissa?

29:02

And I said, you know, Dodd said he's going to kill

29:04

himself. And you got so mad,

29:07

You got so bad you stormed

29:09

out of my room. You called him back up, and

29:11

you said, you you

29:14

still have a pitch. I've

29:17

heard you like. That was the first time I ever saw you mad.

29:19

You're like, because I really felt the

29:21

whole time he was playing on us. You

29:24

know, I got pitch child support, so

29:26

you I separated in and

29:28

then he how did you find out?

29:32

Didn't you receive a letter from him? I received

29:34

a letter maybe a week before

29:36

he got arrested. And in

29:38

this letter it said rose

29:41

Um, what I did is

29:43

bigger than all. J. Simpson. He

29:46

said, I'll probably be in hell forever.

29:50

Keith, and

29:53

I thought you were so full of crap.

29:56

I mean, like, what this is supposed

29:58

to mean? Right? Shreded? A piece is through

30:00

in the trash directly to you. It

30:02

was directly to me. And I didn't say anything about us

30:04

kids. It just was like I

30:06

did something bigger than O. J.

30:09

Simpson. Gentle,

30:19

don't you know God? A

30:21

man? Gentle,

30:29

don't know GODM

30:36

I like that A good

30:38

poet. God? That's song?

30:42

Right? Is so? God

30:44

sits back? Gents,

30:47

O payple, Oh

30:50

we was, Oh

30:58

Happy Faces. A production of how Stuff for X.

31:00

Executive producers or Melissa Moore, Lauren

31:03

Bright, Pacheco, mangesh Ha Ticketur

31:05

and Will Pearson. Supervising

31:07

producer is Noel Brown. Music

31:09

by Claire Campbell, Page Campbell and Hope

31:12

for a Golden Summer. Story

31:14

editor is Matt Riddle. Audio editing

31:16

by Chandler Mays and Noel Brown. Assistant

31:19

editor is Taylor Chacogne. Special

31:21

thanks to Phil Stanford, the publishers of the

31:23

Oregonian Newspaper, and the Carlisle

31:26

Family.