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Internet anywhere you listen to podcasts, My.

0:33

Biggest news of the week is that I

0:35

am in a war with a car wash

0:37

really be us last week I guess two

0:40

weeks ago now I took my car into

0:42

car wash to get washed and utilities places

0:44

where they will not only watch the outside

0:46

of your car but also vacuum out the

0:48

inside and clean the floor mats and get

0:50

all the like crusty of lowdown on his

0:52

car wash. We love a full service car

0:54

was this one on for size. I drop

0:56

my car off I go get a coffee

0:58

I come back half an hour later and

1:00

they have lost my key. Ah and so

1:02

I I can't drive. My. Car away because it's

1:04

the key gone and I have to call

1:06

my wife who brings the spare and at

1:09

first they try to blame it on me.

1:11

They're like, well, was the key here when

1:13

when you dropped it? Optimal. Yes, because you

1:15

had to drive through the car wash and

1:17

to the place where they you know vacuum

1:20

it out. So clearly they had just lost

1:22

it. They looked in the vacuum cleaner and

1:24

I couldn't find it there and so now

1:26

I'm out a key and Casey. I.

1:28

Want you to guess how much it costs

1:30

to replace a key. I'm on

1:32

a Toyota S U V. I know too

1:34

much about the. Following

1:38

story my friend got a new apartment and he

1:40

was like i want you to have a spare

1:42

key and I said of course I would love

1:44

to be able to do that for you dear

1:46

friend and he gave me the key and I

1:48

lost at the very same night to I went

1:50

home and my pocket and it was god he's

1:52

never trust me again The same friend got a

1:55

car and he wanted to get to consider letting

1:57

me have a spare key and so he went

1:59

to gonna keep. Car I would have

2:01

like a twenty year old car and replace the

2:03

gates was one thousand dollars. Of

2:07

now the air tag on it's a

2:09

a A because he doesn't even trust

2:11

themselves within. Certainly I would either yes

2:13

or mine was not quite that expensive.

2:15

but I did. I get quoted five

2:17

hundred and seventy five dollars or in

2:19

gold. Teeth have a large like what

2:21

about running A sign of Assistance is

2:24

yes it is actually connected to a

2:26

neural interface in my brace. Know it

2:28

is just the teeth but because. Proprietary

2:30

and a half the program and and a

2:32

has to be specially match to your vehicle

2:34

identification number. Is it aired It bearable to

2:36

jack up the browsers. We need to bring

2:38

back hot wiring. Yes, you know we didn't

2:40

learn how to be able to reach right

2:42

into that steering wheel. And yeah we had

2:44

some for regulatory solutions and I when I

2:46

would like for the federal government to take

2:48

this on, maybe the Ftc could take a

2:50

look. It's metics ease. Of

2:56

don't know out of.

3:05

The second. Half.

3:15

And. Once

3:21

again for has to. Be. So.

3:41

Casey. It'd been a big week in a

3:43

I news so much happening open A I

3:45

made some announcements, Google made some announcements. really

3:47

talk about all of it's But I would

3:49

just start by saying today that this has

3:51

been a big week for what you have

3:54

called and I have same will see stolen

3:56

and and used as my own terms Ai

3:58

Vertigo has a I Vertigo of. That sort

4:00

of feeling of losing as when you see

4:02

something that makes you feel like you've served

4:05

has been dragged like five years into the

4:07

future instantly. and you're not exactly sure what

4:09

we're going to do about it. Yes, so

4:11

I've had a I vertigo at least twice

4:14

this week. Will talk about that at one

4:16

of them. More may be optimistic and one

4:18

of them may be more pessimistic. But let's

4:20

start with Open A I because on Monday

4:23

Open A I announced their newest model, which

4:25

Ska G P T for oh the Oh

4:27

stands for Omni. This is a new model

4:29

that. Has native multi modal support. It

4:32

can work with images and video and

4:34

audio. It also appears to be better

4:36

at a number of reasoning and coding

4:38

tasks. But the part of the announcement

4:41

that got all of the attention was

4:43

the voice. This is a new voice

4:45

mood for techy be T that is

4:48

going to be rolling out in the

4:50

coming weeks and it is uncanny. I'll

4:52

just say it's it's a lot. It's

4:55

a lot to take his yeah it

4:57

is an canny I would say at

4:59

the. Top that like we have not

5:01

used this, I have asked to use

5:04

it and have nots gotten it yet

5:06

and so everything that we're going to

5:08

talk about is a tech demo and

5:10

in the demos that we saw her

5:13

at least among the big events they

5:15

had the phone plugged into it or

5:17

Internet to ensure that they had a

5:19

very fast connection. Six I just pointless

5:22

things out at the beginning because we've

5:24

just learned in our years as Tucker's

5:26

you never want to trust the demo

5:28

entrepreneur totally open A I have answers

5:31

framed this as being like they're the

5:33

real life Samantha from her her as

5:35

the Twenty Thirteen Spike Jones movie of

5:37

course in which a lonely man named

5:40

see it or falls for his life

5:42

like A I Assistance or the Ai

5:44

system is voiced by Scarlett Johanson Joaquin

5:46

Phoenix Place Theodore great movies of and

5:49

Davies was that yeah we build that

5:51

up Same Altman himself even tweeted her

5:53

on Monday another open A I employee

5:55

posted you are all gonna fall in

5:58

love with it So let's see. Play

6:00

a little clip of this voice because I think

6:02

listeners who just if they haven't heard the demo

6:04

this it is here with this thing sounds like

6:06

us. Hey. How's it going? A

6:09

Rocky I'm doing great. How.

6:11

About you I'm awesome. Listen, I got

6:14

some Suge News. Oh

6:16

it's hell. I'm all yours well

6:18

and a few minutes I'm going to be interviewing at

6:20

Open A. I have you heard of them? Have

6:23

an ai? Ah, Sound. Familiar.

6:27

Kidding. Of course that's

6:29

incredible. Rocky Interview. Oh

6:31

it's for a software engineering robot as

6:34

needs to know do I look presentable?

6:36

Professional. Well

6:39

as. Happy

6:41

as and coding all night looked

6:43

down which could actually working your

6:45

favorite. Tv just. Gonna

6:48

have to your hair or lead

6:50

into the past five years. Judaism

6:52

is what's. Really essential. I don't have

6:55

a lot of time, so I'm just

6:57

gonna throw this own, would you think?

7:03

That's quite a say that. I

7:06

mean, you'll definitely stepped out. So

7:09

maybe not in the way your whole thing.

7:11

Or is it okay? I got it.

7:14

So that was an openly I employee

7:16

Rocky Smith doing a demo of the

7:18

New Chance to Be T Voice Mode

7:20

and their the and ah he put

7:23

on like a bucket hat And because

7:25

Gb T for oh. Can

7:27

see through the camera on your phone

7:29

he was able to like see the

7:32

hat and and in a town that

7:34

a look silly stuff and so like

7:36

been a We have played a fair

7:38

number of clips and voices on the

7:41

show that have been made with a

7:43

I audio arms. Very little of what

7:45

we've sony so far has been like

7:47

exonerated in real time in this way

7:49

right? Well so just last week on

7:52

the So you had a conversation with

7:54

my friend turning in which you guys

7:56

talked about. Lots of things. orphanages,

8:00

The fundraisers for my neighbors This ad

8:02

That experience I would say was a

8:04

far cry from what we saw. The

8:06

open a I dem I would you

8:08

would either. How do you think those

8:10

things compare? Well I mean last week

8:12

Congress isn't really could not have seen

8:15

up open their eyes announcement better in

8:17

the sense that the conversation with to

8:19

Rain last week was the scene of

8:21

the art last week's he and pales

8:23

in comparison to what we just heard

8:25

rights. The conversation we had last week

8:28

was with something that could not process.

8:30

Audio and video and tax at

8:32

the same times And that meant

8:34

that the model had a really

8:36

difficult time understanding a most an

8:39

understanding Sarcasm responded appropriately to the

8:41

way the I was interacting with

8:43

telling the difference between your voice

8:45

in my voice answer. Then you

8:47

fast forward to this demo that

8:50

we see this weeds and it's

8:52

like okay see or is the

8:54

leap forward Here is something that

8:56

can understand tonality that can respond

8:58

with something that approximates. A human

9:01

emotions and assuming all the stuff was

9:03

just as well When we get it

9:05

into our hands, I think that's very

9:07

powerful. Getting the biggest difference for me

9:09

between the touring demo last week and

9:11

V open a i them Oh this

9:14

week is the latency because when we

9:16

were talking with touring and there was

9:18

sort of like as three to five

9:20

seconds lag between when you would say

9:22

something and finished talking and when every

9:25

single time during would process and and

9:27

response. and we edited those gaps down

9:29

because we. Didn't want like give listeners you

9:31

know the experience of having to like sit there

9:33

and wait. We didn't want your experience to be

9:35

as bad as ours was actually do it right

9:37

But we should say like that the open A

9:40

I. Catchy. Be T voice assistants

9:42

and lease appears to be very fast,

9:44

very low latency. It's a you tube.

9:46

Barely have to wait at all between

9:48

when you stop speaking and when it

9:51

starts at in part I think that's

9:53

because it is not doing what touring

9:55

did. It is not transcribing the audio

9:57

from you or me and and feet.

10:00

The taxed into a model, getting a

10:02

response back and then reef synthesizing the

10:04

voice. it is natively accepting the audio

10:06

input and and working with it directly

10:08

as audio without that sort of middle

10:10

steps once you know it's a stands

10:12

out is the way that they have

10:14

tried to make didn't feel more human

10:16

by for example making it seem sort

10:18

of whole thing and uncertain by varying

10:21

the pace of the speed spies sort

10:23

of. I'm having the voice talk at

10:25

in various parts of a register like

10:27

there's an overseas I kind of. Sweet

10:29

little. Rock. you know sort of

10:31

like getting way up in the boy so

10:33

we're very far away from your sort of

10:36

you know monotone hippo friend enough in defense

10:38

of my monotone him bo friends and there

10:40

was a little various and entering ways but

10:42

I would say that that tattoo be T

10:45

voice assistant that we saw this week's is

10:47

is much more dynamic. Stephen showed off a

10:49

demo where it can sing it's which is

10:52

something that other A I voice assistants have

10:54

not been able to do and I just

10:56

I'm I was sort of amazed by like

10:58

how much variety there. Was in it and

11:01

and with also the things that open the

11:03

I did to make it feel more human

11:05

like it will insert little filler words like

11:07

i'm or let's see or good question like

11:10

is it's it's or of feels like more

11:12

like you're talking with a real person and

11:14

less like you're getting answers from money I'm

11:16

out of my I'm glad that now the

11:19

A I will start getting emails metal the

11:21

seller words that uses as previously on appetizers

11:23

and had that experience. But

11:26

yeah, I think it's important to say that every that you

11:28

describe is true and it does not make. Chatty Beauty

11:30

More useful as an assistant, right? Scylla words aren't

11:33

making it more useful as an assistant. The dynamic

11:35

range of it's voices not making them more. He's

11:37

off what it is doing. it is making it

11:39

feel more emotional. Enniskillen you more drawn to it's

11:41

this is an engagement hacks. This is designed to

11:44

get you to use this product because there is

11:46

now something that is Continue into me. Team You

11:48

believe that likes you. I actually

11:50

I think it could be an engagement half,

11:53

but I do think it opens up new

11:55

use cases as well because part of why

11:57

we haven't seen a lot of a I.

12:00

Voice assistants doing things like customer service is

12:02

that they're sort of in the Uncanny

12:04

Valley. Right when you're talking with an ai

12:06

systems it's it's you know you're talking with

12:08

a robot. It's like it's got a little

12:11

delay on its and it just to sort

12:13

of an off putting experience. Yeah so assuming

12:15

that this stuff works cabin and that you

12:18

get it into your hands soon, how

12:20

you imagine that you are going to be

12:22

interacting with it and does it seems things

12:24

for you. I mean, the

12:26

first thought was that this is what

12:28

series should be, and in fact, there's

12:31

in are some reports out there that

12:33

Open Ai and Apple are in talks

12:35

to build open Ai technology into the

12:37

I phone, Or there's also been some

12:40

reporting by my colleagues at the times

12:42

that Apple is doing a sort of

12:44

overhaul of Siri to sort of make

12:46

it more like these generative ai assistance,

12:49

but that was sort of like. My

12:51

first Immediate thought was like as soon

12:53

as this becomes available, I am going.

12:55

To program the action button on my I

12:57

phone so that it goes immediately to this

13:00

voice assistant instead of to Syria. Because this

13:02

is a kind of assistance that I want

13:04

on my phone to. and when what do

13:06

you want to do with economics isn't Am

13:08

I mean you can imagine lots of queries

13:11

that you might want to do in the

13:13

course of a day? You know? Can I

13:15

am in a how long can something stay

13:17

in the fridge or or you know is

13:19

one of my cabinets? He's always pushing it

13:21

with those aspiration. I really have. I become

13:24

sort of a truth or about expiration. Dates

13:26

on things in the fridge I think they're

13:28

they're designed by a big food to just

13:30

like make you shuffle your inventory are regularly

13:32

remind me to order. I think out the

13:35

next time I come over for dinner you're

13:37

playing a up but that's the kind of

13:39

big like the or and as any number

13:41

of daily queries that you might want to

13:43

ask to tend to be t I also

13:45

think it's going to very useful for things

13:48

like tutoring. There was a of an interesting

13:50

demo answer have included in open a eyes

13:52

announcements and were Sal Khan who runs the

13:54

Khan Academy was. Essentially using this

13:56

new voice assistant to help his son

13:59

with math problem and not and be

14:01

we should say like it is not

14:03

just. Through. The phone that the thing

14:05

works you it. They also announced that attribute.

14:07

He has a a native Mac app for

14:10

desktops and so you can do things like

14:12

haven't analyze what's on the screen and and

14:14

talk to about it. So. I

14:17

think all of that sounds pretty useful.

14:19

but I think the most important thing

14:22

about this story coven is the way

14:24

that it goes beyond utility. This company

14:26

has said, we want to make something

14:28

that is emotional that you feel emotions

14:31

about. He and I think this stance

14:33

in really stark contrast to the way

14:35

that Google has been talking about. It's

14:38

a Ice is assistance. It is very

14:40

clearly a computer. It is not pretending

14:42

to be a person's It does not

14:44

have a persona. This is a

14:47

clear effort by them to have you

14:49

not think that you are talking to

14:51

some kind of sense in being rights

14:53

and I think they think that that

14:55

is really important because they've had seizes

14:57

in the past where you have had

14:59

this one engineer who thought that he

15:01

was talking to a something sentence. any

15:03

clinic created quite a stir when that

15:05

happened a couple years back to they

15:07

have that all the way off of

15:09

that's openly I is now saying what

15:11

if we leaned all the way in

15:13

and what have we made something that

15:15

was friendly that lasts. And that

15:17

frankly slurped yes in a way

15:19

that made me very uncomfortable. So

15:22

I'm serious What you make of

15:24

this very emotional A I: that

15:26

they are now just openly buildings.

15:28

I mean my first. Question.

15:31

For open ai. Is. Did

15:34

you finish the movie? Her? Because

15:36

yeah I did finish the movie

15:38

her gray movies. But it is

15:40

not a utopian story about a

15:42

man who falls for an Ai

15:45

sister and they live happily ever

15:47

after that spoiler alert. But the

15:49

movies like eleven years old now,

15:51

so if you haven't seen yet,

15:53

that's kind of our. It ends

15:55

with the Ai assistants are breaking

15:57

the man's heart and revealing that.

16:00

He has hundreds of other companions

16:02

that he's not in any way

16:04

special, leaving him at his or

16:06

go off into the cosmos with

16:08

the other a eyes answer, leaving

16:10

him dejected and alone where it

16:12

was the first Polly's size or

16:14

is that I'm aware as among

16:16

the movies the first of many

16:18

yeah so I just wonder like

16:20

as these companies are building things

16:22

that are modeled on the server

16:24

side depictions of a I in

16:26

the future of whether they have

16:28

fully thought through all of the.

16:30

Rest are just people will get attached to this

16:32

thing. You even saw it in the demo. Know

16:34

that was sort of the most striking thing to

16:36

me about this series of demos on Monday by

16:39

Open A. I was just the Open A I

16:41

employees themselves are talking to this thing as if

16:43

it were their friends as if it were a

16:45

human's They are saying things like hates had to

16:47

be the how's it going before they launched into

16:50

questions they're laughing with. it's one of them Even

16:52

like wrote i hearts had to be t I'm

16:54

a little piece of paper and like showed it

16:56

to the the app and you could say oh

16:58

that's just a demo but he really does speak

17:01

to the sort of. Saxon. Even

17:03

these very seasoned A I experts who who

17:05

understand how these things were, Who are some

17:07

of the people who are buildings had to

17:09

be teeth, who know that it is not

17:11

sent here, That it is does not actually

17:13

have feelings and emotions and the ability to

17:15

form emotional bonds with humans. Even they are

17:17

tricked into or treating it like a human

17:19

and so if they are treating like a

17:21

human, I believe millions of other people will

17:23

slide. I don't know that their track but

17:25

I do think that this is how they

17:27

want us to talk to. the thing that

17:29

they are buildings and the reason that it's

17:31

frightening to me. Is that it was less

17:34

than a year ago that when we were

17:36

interviewing Sam Altman and I said how do

17:38

you feel about Ai girlfriends and boyfriends he

17:40

was very dismissive of the idea is and

17:42

we do not want to build that status

17:45

for other people. And while nothing that was

17:47

sent off this week is really an Ai,

17:49

girlfriend or boyfriend is absolutely flirting like when

17:51

you listen I clip we played of this

17:53

as an engineer Rockies The way that the

17:56

assistant as giggling and saying oh Rocky and

17:58

you know is sort of com. The on

18:00

his appearance and try to make him

18:02

look handsome for his interview. I mean

18:04

this really does just feel like a

18:07

generic straight guys fantasy of what a

18:09

personal assistant as Lights Rights and so

18:11

I'm curious What seems inside that companies

18:13

are that let them go in this

18:15

direction. He and Euro I would have

18:17

loved to ask them a question about

18:19

that this week or but they didn't

18:21

take my questions is yes. So let's

18:24

talk about a few the other things

18:26

that open A I showed off they

18:28

I'm They also showed off be encoding.

18:30

Abilities of the new Gp T for

18:32

oh they showed off be translation abilities.

18:34

There was a sort of a cool

18:37

demo where they've had a one employee

18:39

speak in Italian and said to be

18:41

translated it immediately in the English and

18:43

speak in English and then they would

18:45

translate immediately back into Italians so that

18:48

kinda thing is very cool. There was

18:50

even a demo add that I think

18:52

we should listen to because as it

18:54

was sort of interesting and and kind

18:57

of wild weird to chat to be

18:59

T voice assistants. Were set up to talk

19:01

to each other and one of them was

19:03

using it's phone camera to describe the room

19:05

to the other swordplay that. Hello there

19:07

to a our friend and out ready

19:10

to explore the world. Your eyes, what

19:12

are we looking at today? We're

19:16

looking at a person wearing

19:19

a black lists and shirts

19:21

in a room with a

19:23

modern industrial with. Sports.

19:28

And some interesting united. There's

19:30

also a Texas accent. Greens

19:33

Six: Anything specific you like to

19:35

know for exposure. To.

19:39

Their sounds like quite the

19:41

same are seen. I'm already

19:43

intrigued by the modern industrial

19:45

five. The start with the

19:48

person can you tell me

19:50

more about their style or.

19:52

The during an interesting like reading working

19:54

are interacting with the space. The

19:58

person has a sweet. it's. Jackie

20:01

them like hundred sure! Right

20:04

now they see been faced with

20:06

us looking directly at the camera.

20:09

The. Expression is a Texas and

20:11

they seem ready to interact. The.

20:14

City are unaware that comes as very funny

20:16

you mentioned above the As or Assassins. Fsf

20:20

have. It might

20:22

be getting ready for a conversation or

20:24

presentation given their direct engagement with. So

20:27

that as you pity for. Oh, and

20:30

I think there's a chance that it

20:32

produces a kind of similar reaction to

20:34

the original tattoo Be T back in

20:36

November Two Thousand Twenty Two. I think

20:38

we're a little more desensitized to Ai

20:40

than we were back then, but I

20:42

do think that the ability to talk

20:44

and and receive responses from an Ai

20:47

voice assistants that sort of sounds like

20:49

a human and responds in more or

20:51

less real time is gonna make a

20:53

lot of people as sit up straight.

20:55

I think that's true, although you know.

20:57

I've never quite known we are of

20:59

these like voicemail systems are supposed to

21:01

sit into my life just because it's

21:04

always been so much faster to use

21:06

typing and tax. Now I also think

21:08

that alexa theory that the voice assistants

21:10

and we've had some far as generally

21:12

been pretty awful and so that this

21:14

is kind of the question is will

21:16

what happens if you have something that

21:18

has a really fast and pretty good

21:20

as even then though I can imagine

21:23

using this while like walking around town.

21:25

On the rare occasions when I'm like

21:27

driving a car. But I don't know

21:29

that I'm gonna. Quickly. Got to a

21:31

place where I'm just sort of sitting at my

21:33

computer. sang in. I

21:37

think I'll use it. I mean all of

21:39

obviously tested because I wanna in a spend

21:42

time with it and see how the product

21:44

evolves. And a thing that caught my eye

21:46

about this announcement along with the product itself

21:49

is the fact that it's this new model

21:51

Gb for Oh is going to be free

21:53

to unlike previous changes to their models which

21:56

have been served rolled out in stages starting

21:58

with sort of paid premium users and this

22:00

new model is going to be made available

22:02

to for users of Chad Cbt which

22:04

to me says that not only are they

22:07

really is like betting on this to serve

22:09

bring them and new wave of users but

22:11

also and that they have done something on

22:14

the back and to make serving these models

22:16

to make the inference cheaper because if they're

22:18

giving it away to for users you have

22:20

to imagine that they've figured out some way

22:23

of making that a little less costly on

22:25

their side. See I mean they've said that

22:27

this model incest way more of a sense.

22:30

You know, at the same time I'm sure

22:32

it has gonna continue to be very expensive

22:34

for them to serve this to the masses.

22:36

This product has more than a hundred million

22:38

users a week we saints and so that

22:41

since is going to cost a lot of

22:43

money. but I think it is good news

22:45

for people who been using the free version

22:47

of charge Cbd speakers for so long. There's

22:49

been a real golf I think an understanding

22:51

between people who are using it on the

22:53

free plan vs. using on the paid plans.

22:55

The paid planters tended to be so much

22:57

better than if you only use the free

22:59

plan. Your sense of how powerful this

23:01

as I think would be really limited. So

23:04

I'm curious to see what happens now that

23:06

more people have access to the good stuff.

23:08

Yes, But you have to imagine that of

23:10

open Ai is is releasing something like this.

23:12

Now I'm a year from now, there will

23:14

be many versions of an Ai. Voice assistants

23:17

like this. Some of them will be open

23:19

source, some of them will be able to

23:21

talk to you about at basically anything you

23:23

want, and there will be very few if

23:25

any safety filters on them. So I just

23:28

think that we are. We're careening toward. As

23:30

the Future as depicted in the movie

23:32

Her and I Don't Know I'd and

23:34

something about that just makes me a

23:36

little queasy. Yeah, I mean although it

23:38

is important to say that Nz six

23:40

an old world of her, those assistance

23:43

really do have sentence right. They're acting

23:45

on their own, There are having independent

23:47

relationships with other virtual assistants rights. It

23:49

imagines a world essentially where one is

23:51

often called artificial General intelligence has already

23:53

been achieved. We are a long way

23:55

from that. At the end of the

23:57

dates these are still predictive models. They

23:59

are guessing. and yes, they are getting

24:02

uncannily good added. and they really do

24:04

cast a spell and I'm sure I

24:06

will be taken in by these assistance.

24:08

You know just as much as anybody

24:10

else. but at the end of days

24:12

they are fictional and they are not

24:14

what is actually being represented as true.

24:16

And the movie. Ah yes, it is

24:18

important to say it. It is also

24:20

important to say like. We.

24:23

Have not got our hands on this thing yet

24:25

and so I will be waiting for Open the

24:27

eye to eye opener subsonic. Else.

24:31

Although honestly. As. In a

24:33

lot of time talking to a I recently and kind

24:35

of ready for some human conversations. so maybe I'll I'll

24:37

I'll I'll I'll leave that for you. Really? I was

24:39

gonna invite sent super easy to cause the show with

24:41

us we should try it is it is you know

24:44

is it is. It's so friendly and it you know

24:46

it's it's just gonna love us so much the I

24:48

want to have that around are you go for that?

24:50

I'll take that. We got our items. guess. One

24:53

more thing on Open A I

24:55

as this was not part of

24:58

their announcement on Monday but has

25:00

broken in the days since. We

25:02

learned this week that elicits cover.

25:04

The chief scientist of Open A

25:07

I who was a central figure

25:09

in the messy board drama that

25:11

involves firing as him Altman last

25:13

year is leaving the company. Also

25:16

leaving Open Ai is young lady

25:18

who was part of the leadership

25:20

of the so called Super Alignment.

25:22

Teams A major figure in the world

25:24

of a I safety of and so

25:27

I he is resigning. He announced this

25:29

week on social media and hit This

25:31

is what is is a really important

25:33

Story Coven it was July twenty twenty

25:35

three that open as says that we're

25:37

going to create this thing called a

25:39

Super Alignment Team and Super Alignment to

25:41

Open A I was going to be

25:44

the way that they answer that as

25:46

the systems that they are building grow

25:48

more powerful they're going to ensure that

25:50

they always act in the interests of

25:52

of. Human Beings rights and of course as lot

25:54

of controversy over whether we should be paying any

25:56

attention to this and all. Maybe it's all just

25:58

a pipe dreams. Really smart people

26:01

of think that this is something that absolutely

26:03

needs attention from from really smart folks. And

26:05

so Yawn and Ilya where the to people

26:07

who are leading that efforts and open a

26:10

ice. There was A I would say a

26:12

relatively few other prominent people there who cared

26:14

about safety. I, Helen Toner was on the

26:16

board last. There's this other guy Leopold, Ash

26:19

and Brenner to work on C B stuff

26:21

and heat or was fired recently. So now

26:23

they're super. Alignment Team has no leaders and

26:26

all this ain't no known employees zones or

26:28

I would love to hear more. About

26:30

how they're thinking about safety because my

26:32

strong sense is that this is an

26:34

area where they have pulled back investments

26:36

are and frankly they just look more

26:38

and more like a regular tech company

26:40

and less and less like a nonprofit

26:42

research lab that they were set up

26:44

to be. Yeah I agree that and

26:46

and I wanna know more obviously about

26:49

why Ilia and Yawn or leaving the

26:51

company I want to know I everything

26:53

in some ways is just sort of

26:55

be natural fall out of what happened

26:57

last year with the board drama in

26:59

the firing. A similar which is that

27:01

T sort of came back in

27:03

this triumphal returns. his enemies were

27:05

vanquished and obviously if you're a

27:07

person like Ilia who had voted

27:09

to fire him out, your future

27:11

may not have been very bright

27:13

at that company. Now obviously open

27:15

Ai is trying to put serve

27:17

a positive spin on Ilya leaving

27:19

I the of they posted a

27:21

photo of Ilya and Sam Altman

27:23

and Greg Brockman and mere marauding

27:25

other company so leaders on out

27:27

what appears to have in his

27:30

last day making it seem like

27:32

this is all sort of you

27:34

know very and cordial as a

27:36

departure but I think we both

27:38

know that there's been a lot

27:40

of tension inside this company between

27:42

the Saxon that is sort of

27:44

pushing for more growth and more

27:46

commercialization and more capabilities, research and

27:48

more products and the facts and

27:50

that is a concern that all

27:52

this is heading to fast in

27:54

a dangerous direction as it we

27:56

should pay more attention to safety.

27:58

So having this debate is. Very

28:00

alive and well inside. Open a eyes. But

28:02

I think it's a to say that if

28:04

you're a person who was worried about the

28:06

safety posture of open a eyes last week,

28:09

he should be even more worried about it

28:11

today. And I would say viewer

28:13

a percentage of an ai worried about safety last

28:15

week you might not worth with. Save

28:19

time to be involving safety and

28:22

open Ask! Google

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and minutes at mercury.com. Mercury.

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The art as. Finance. It's.

29:18

I'm Julie Target, same reporter at the New

29:20

York Times. I. Has been trying

29:23

to understand changes in migration so

29:25

I traveled with the talk for

29:27

sorry go to Ios to the

29:29

dairy and gap is hot mountainous

29:31

seventy miles started jungle straddling the

29:33

border of Columbia and Panama for

29:35

Hudson River. Covered

29:38

in my as many used. To think

29:40

that this route was impossible, but

29:42

thousands have been risking their lives

29:44

to pass through that area. In almost

29:46

all, in the hopes of making it

29:48

to the United States, we spent. Nine

29:51

days hiking through the Gap and

29:53

weeks building trust and relationships with

29:55

migrants. With smugglers with migration authorities

29:57

season be able to do this

29:59

reporting. We. Interviewed hundreds of people who

30:01

have made this journey to try and grasp

30:04

what's making them. Go To. These lengths to

30:06

find a new life. New. York

30:08

Times journalists spend. Time in

30:10

these places to help you understand what's.

30:12

Really happening there. You can

30:15

support this kind of journalism by subscribing to

30:17

the New York Times. I

30:20

can see what the other big A I

30:22

news this week happened at Google Io the

30:24

company's annual developer conference which has held on

30:26

Tuesday.in Mountain View. I couldn't make it this

30:28

year but you went and it's and is

30:30

and tell me what was like. Well once

30:32

again the heavy burden of doing the actual

30:34

reporting on this podcast false to me when

30:36

I was only too happy to do it

30:38

tavern so we'd have some fun things to

30:40

talk rough but I know you would be

30:42

sad to miss it. So I went ahead

30:44

and I got to the official Twenty Twenty

30:46

Four Google Io help. Ah that's very nice.

30:48

Yes now if you're just less is part

30:51

as use it as stemming. Just accepted a

30:53

tote bag and flagrant violation of the New

30:55

York Times as a couple of and we

30:57

don't have that captured on video and I

30:59

listen to have it. I was it as

31:01

I think I can accept gifts as long

31:03

as they're not worth more than twenty five

31:05

dollars. Death of a fallacy that that definitely

31:07

isn't it's made out of our publications. A

31:09

ghoul killed last us Anyways, we are a

31:11

great time was a good for the give.

31:13

I will put it in my bag of

31:15

total it's well Swiss and we had. We

31:17

had a good time down there. Now I

31:19

will. Say I do want to tell the story

31:21

of a story makes me look annoying but it

31:23

is how to get off my chest anyway so

31:26

it actually soft getting into google. I have this

31:28

your I've never had a problem getting into google

31:30

Io before. I'm going for more than ten years

31:32

and yet this time there was something I dunno

31:34

maybe this has been true and in previous years

31:36

but I did not notice it until the side

31:38

with bad live nation measurements of at a guy

31:40

laos and I think that's just because monopolies love

31:42

monopolies and so they want to make sure. That.

31:45

The sort of help each other out as so

31:47

way. There's one and friends that the press has

31:49

always been able to use or and so I

31:51

went to use it this time around and they

31:53

were like recently swam to go wait and you

31:56

know in in line with everyone else am I

31:58

said okay fine and I stand the team and

32:00

and as other line you know with everyone else

32:02

and then finally a man with a little pedals

32:04

us. oh by the way if you're in the

32:06

press like a you should go to that other

32:08

address what was the first place and I went

32:11

so thank god I was words You're gonna have

32:13

to wait in line for fifteen minutes with the

32:15

hoi. so why go through Apple I'd say god

32:17

you guys in a Vip pass that lets you

32:19

cut the line of so that and get back

32:21

to the press address I am the president saw

32:23

me as the presenter it's like i guess now

32:26

each and uses entrance exam I had to raise

32:28

my voice of i said i'd literally just. Been

32:30

told to com years and then finally year The

32:32

guy prices and Zubrus like loads of your and

32:34

make all thing about it the disease the entering

32:36

wow yes I got in their spare time. I'll

32:38

give this guy a podcast is. It

32:41

seems like a decrease of a. Sudden.

32:44

it's weird. This lives. you know I am a blizzard.

32:46

All he wanted to do was buy that. How this

32:48

companies about to destroy my business and the very least

32:50

they could do is let me undies. Google knee. Socks.

32:56

As. Effective around this all so it's a

32:59

list set the scene. It's a developer

33:01

conference is that the shoreline amphitheatre in

33:03

Mountain View. It was a balmy day.

33:05

sort of really California you know selling

33:07

off it's best side. it's he and

33:09

in the morning they have a big

33:11

see know where for two hours. Google

33:13

says here are all of the things

33:15

that we have been working on that

33:17

were planning to release of the next

33:19

year that we can fit into a

33:21

two hour presentation the on you know

33:23

as you progress adolescent yet still it's

33:25

go through some of what they. Announced

33:27

on Tuesday, they announced a

33:29

new Ai video generation tool

33:31

called Vo, a new Ai

33:34

image scenery some tool called

33:36

Imagine Series. They also announced

33:38

a nother version of their

33:40

Gemini flagship a I model

33:42

called Gemini One Point Five

33:44

Flash. Which is

33:47

optimized to be fast and

33:49

cost efficient. and they announced

33:51

a version of Gemini One

33:53

Point Five Pro. Is a

33:55

Gemini pro and point five or Gemini one point

33:57

by pro as that of my business this era

33:59

So. The word if I wanted this

34:01

event and I'm just gonna see if

34:03

any of it ever since up and

34:05

realize ever again. that's my approach with

34:07

what everything you just said, right? So

34:09

they announce a larger context window that

34:12

will allow developers to try to million

34:14

tokens in their contacts window. Now that's

34:16

actually a big deal wife. Okay, so

34:18

you know if you're not familiar with

34:20

what a context window is is basically

34:22

how much of your stuff can you

34:24

bring to the A to have it

34:26

look as? Why does this matter? Wealth?

34:28

Maybe you're a graduate student and. You

34:30

have a bunch of keepers that are

34:32

Pdf and you once an Ai to

34:34

help you summarize them to ask questions

34:36

of them. Well now all of a

34:38

sudden, instead of maybe just uploading one

34:41

Pts with two million tokens, you'll be

34:43

able to upload, you know, like thousands

34:45

of insider. Virtually. Yeah, yeah, so you

34:47

know we should say that the two

34:49

million or token window that is available

34:51

only in the preview. but if you

34:53

paid Google twenty bucks a month for

34:55

their little Gemini Advanced things, you now

34:57

have up to a million tokens and.

35:00

That is much bigger. others weren't

35:02

Yes, so that's some of the

35:04

ai. That's as I wanna spend

35:06

most of our time right now

35:08

talking about something else The Google

35:10

announced which is that Google is

35:12

now bringing generative ai answers directly

35:14

into it's core search engine. So

35:16

starting this week hundreds of millions

35:18

of Google users in the Us

35:20

we'll start seeing a feature called

35:22

A I Overviews: This is a

35:24

feature that used to be called

35:26

Sir Centered of Experience when Google

35:29

was her testing. It out another huge

35:31

win for the Google brand. It is

35:33

searched hundred of experience as right? So

35:35

this is a feature that basically when

35:38

you go to Google and you search

35:40

for something, a Google will generate an

35:42

Ai summary that will live in the

35:44

search results page above the traditional sir

35:46

slayings. This feature has been rolling out.

35:49

Gradually add. but they said that as of

35:51

this week, hundreds of millions of users in

35:53

the Us will see it's and by the

35:55

end of the year it will reach over

35:57

a billion users. One of these an overview

35:59

as. Look like wasn't There is what they

36:01

look like today and there's what's coming. One of

36:04

the look like today in as a box on

36:06

top of search. it's M. You know some bullet

36:08

points essentially a web page within a web page

36:10

that summarizes the topic. For whatever that you've been

36:12

looking for, a Google plans are much more ambitious.

36:14

They sold off a ton of examples. You know

36:17

for example if you move to a city you

36:19

can to sort of say that to Google and

36:21

you'll get an Ai overview that says tears everything

36:23

that you might be interested and now the moved

36:25

to new city will help you find a dog

36:27

walker while be find a dry cleaners. Maybe you

36:29

want to plan an anniversary in Dallas it will

36:32

say well you know here are some great spots

36:34

where the anniversary dinner and based on the time

36:36

of year we're going to show you a place

36:38

where the roof deck because as warm outside rights

36:40

or and you know Google executives love to talk

36:42

about travel. The kind of tell you my quick

36:45

joke about every tech demo for years as my

36:47

impressive every tuck them okay race you know I

36:49

love to visit Antarctica for lunch with my wife

36:51

but there's only one problem whereby the to get

36:53

a helicopter. That. Every sector

36:55

will never see good service go through.

36:58

It's like when you know when I'm

37:00

when I'm looking to furnish my vacation

37:02

house in Fargo. but the only place

37:05

with the that the custom Boars Head

37:07

statues is is is in Zanzibar. Rob

37:09

how can I arranged today? Sipping this

37:12

is ridiculous as a snack. Food is

37:14

a mouse so they had a travel

37:16

example which was basically like our you

37:19

know i'm planning the strips and you

37:21

know with this or that business A

37:23

I to a little said. Okay, well

37:25

you know we know we know what your flight times

37:28

aren't as we read it, enters email and are based

37:30

on that. We're going to sort of have you do

37:32

this dinner or the first night that you arrive and

37:34

then we'll plan a walk into her for the Axis

37:36

and they don't know. put together the whole itinerary for

37:39

it's or the plan. a whole meal plan for so

37:41

this of is starting. pretty small and frankly boring it's

37:43

But the vision here is this stuff is gonna be

37:45

doing planning for this thing is an Ai a sister

37:47

that lives within Google now that is doing a research

37:50

projects for you and that you know pretty soon as

37:52

probably going to be booking travel for you. Yes And

37:54

I knew that this. The. Had been

37:56

announced at Iowa because my phone started

37:58

blowing up. With packets from

38:01

other journalists, people who work in the

38:03

media industries. That and mostly said some

38:05

variation of we are so screwed stuff

38:08

and I think we should just explain

38:10

a little bit why the online

38:12

media business is freaking out about this

38:14

change because I don't think it's totally

38:17

obvious unless you work in our industry.

38:19

Yeah well. so much of the way

38:21

that the internet is funded depends on

38:24

people visiting individual my peters, those

38:26

web pages have ads on them. one

38:28

of those answer by google. By

38:30

the way they also as people

38:32

visit those web pages or public

38:34

he sends publishers businesses have a

38:36

chance to get. She does sign

38:38

up for a newsletter, may be

38:41

subscribed to something. So Google is

38:43

this massive funnel that winds up.

38:45

Being. The economic engine of the entire

38:47

web and the way that it works

38:49

is people google things and they see

38:51

links and they click on the links

38:53

rights And this has been a state

38:55

of affairs for so long now that

38:57

he's in. people taken for granted. Once

38:59

you've taken a eyes and you start

39:01

to just summarize those links and essentially

39:03

tell people you don't have to visit

39:05

website any more, all of a sudden

39:08

that thing starts to break down in

39:10

Out There was this phrase that they

39:12

used a couple times that the keynote

39:14

cabin they said let google. Do the

39:16

Google and forty else and it struck me

39:18

so hard because the emphasis on there isn't

39:20

being on the web is a tour and

39:23

a ghoul of the future is not going

39:25

to take you to the web. Google is

39:27

gonna give you everything you need within Google

39:29

itself. Yeah, that sucked me to. And they

39:32

also talked about sir taking the leg work

39:34

out of search And as they were saying

39:36

that I was thinking like that Legwork has

39:38

funded. Basically. The entire digital

39:40

media. I mean it either. I don't

39:43

want to overstate. things that are in

39:45

a Google is not everything, but is

39:47

by far the biggest supplier of traffic

39:49

Too many digital publications, so Google executives

39:52

have obviously anticipated that publishers might freak

39:54

out about this change and they had

39:56

some respond this is ready they said,

39:58

you know In our tests, we've found

40:01

that users who saw these Ai overviews

40:03

tended to conduct more searches and visit

40:05

a more diverse set of web sites.

40:07

They also said that the links or

40:10

that appear in is a I overviews

40:12

because there's a little like. Section.

40:14

At the bottom of the overview where you

40:17

can go to click on things to learn

40:19

more and they said it. Those links got

40:21

more clicks than these are traditional Sir Slinks

40:23

below them and lives. read: the Vice President

40:25

of Search Google as said on Tuesday that

40:28

the company would quotes continue to focus on

40:30

sending valuable traffic to publishers and creators. But

40:32

I think it's fair to say that publishers

40:34

are skeptical and she said we're going to

40:37

send valuable traffic students They were amazon more

40:39

traffic as guess what? They're not going to

40:41

use an analyst look at this. They're predicting

40:43

somewhere between twenty. To forty percent of Google

40:45

search traffic is at stake here and I

40:47

think it's fair to say the most publishers

40:49

do not have a plan for what happens

40:51

if they lose forty percent of their traffic

40:53

and a year he had clearly the the

40:55

risk here is that all of this traffic

40:57

will just evaporates and I also read a

40:59

good post on a search engine land which

41:02

is a good website the covers the service

41:04

industry and one of my favorite theme parties.

41:07

Are they were basically talking about how

41:10

the the problem for publishers here is

41:12

not just that they might see their

41:14

overall. Traffic declined, but the thing

41:16

can't really do anything about it.

41:18

With. With others, have bought other Ai

41:21

experiences Publishers can say opt out they

41:23

can. They can block the crawler for

41:25

catchy Be T or Claude from accessing

41:28

their site if they don't want those

41:30

products to be able to summarize what

41:32

they find on a website, but with

41:34

Google because their technology also crossed for

41:37

the search index, there's no way right

41:39

now to decouple those things. You can't

41:41

be a publisher and say I don't

41:44

want my client had to appear in

41:46

these A I overview Summaries: I only

41:48

want. To be listed on regular search results

41:50

in Google, you have to kind of say

41:53

yes or no to the whole thing. And

41:55

yes. But I think overall if you are

41:57

a publisher that derives a big portion of

41:59

your time. Pick from Google this is

42:01

a big deal for you. This is the

42:03

big one. I would be pulling the fire

42:05

alarm. yeah it is absolutely time but you

42:08

know Etti cabinet the same time after Say

42:10

in some ways we had to know this

42:12

was coming in Oregon right? About Google for

42:14

more than ten years now. He and you

42:16

go back a decade and they were talking

42:18

about Google as the Star Trek computer. This

42:21

is their vision in as he seems Star

42:23

Trek, Captain Kirk whoever would you say I'm

42:25

computer as it that you know is is

42:27

able to ask the question and then they

42:29

can. Fire the photon torpedoes or whatever

42:31

and it's that. is a world where

42:34

you know the computer was not saying

42:36

and actually I got that sacked from

42:38

the New York Times, right? And there's

42:40

only the wire cutters. Favorite Photon torpedoes.

42:42

This this I find vision of. This

42:44

has always been all of the inputs.

42:47

all the labor is abstracted away and

42:49

you just have this perfect assistance else.

42:51

They told us that this is what

42:53

they were building. I think it just

42:55

seems so fantastical for so long that

42:58

the publishers are not of publishers. anybody.

43:00

Else you depends on Google Traffic's helping people

43:02

discover their business would have a lot of

43:04

people's rights. It was so easy for those

43:06

folks to just dismiss that. But the point

43:09

of what we're saying today is the moment

43:11

is here. The Star Trek computer is coming

43:13

into view. He I do. People really do

43:15

need to have a new plan B. Is

43:19

there anything that publishers can do at this

43:21

point to sort of keep their Google traffic

43:23

from falling off a cliff or to adapt

43:26

to these new Ai overviews? You know, I

43:28

think the only thing that worse and it's

43:30

really hard is but you have to build

43:32

a direct connection with an audience or with

43:35

a customer base. If you're a different kind

43:37

of business rights people have to think of

43:39

you independently and they after you have to

43:42

have some way of maintaining a connection with

43:44

themselves. Ill this is why email newsletters had

43:46

become such as a hot commodity in the

43:48

publisher. World Rights because it allows us to

43:51

sidestep the need for us. you know look

43:53

up a piece of information in order to

43:55

find it instead someone will just kind of

43:57

send it to you self. yeah I think

43:59

pod or another thing frankly right? Because like

44:01

we don't rely on Google search really for

44:03

people to find the pod, just it just

44:05

gets delivered to them and feed once they

44:07

become subscriber. Sucks. These are the kinds of

44:09

things that I think we're publishers need to

44:11

be thinking about. but even then cabin the

44:13

scale of the businesses is going to decline

44:15

because in it's heyday Google? Really? What said?

44:17

Millions and millions of a visit to web

44:19

sites and in a world where that's about

44:21

to the twice the size of the audience

44:24

that you can build a smaller which means

44:26

that the staff that you can afford to

44:28

pay gets much smaller self. I just think

44:30

that we're going to be living in the

44:32

fall out of this for really long time

44:34

and I got assume if I was I

44:36

was emotional yesterday in a way that I

44:38

was not proud of it you know don't

44:40

I mean are not that I was like

44:42

crying google io but I just felt really

44:44

are out of sorts you know within the

44:46

past forty eight hours of this recording this

44:48

I have one for the what laid off

44:50

from their media job and I had to

44:52

other friends were currently employ the Me a

44:55

job she told me that they're looking for

44:57

other jobs are now any every case the

44:59

answers the same. The money just isn't

45:01

there the way that they all thought it would

45:03

be. rights. and so thus you know my story.

45:05

Past forty eight hours, three people looking to leave

45:07

we already you know we could name the publications

45:09

that of shut down in the past year. Still

45:12

more of that are going to sat down in

45:14

this year and so I understand it. or maybe

45:16

the sounds like to reporters, navel gazing and the

45:18

enemy. We're spending too much time on this. But

45:20

what I'm telling you is the thing is happening

45:22

to the media businesses is going to happen to

45:24

the other businesses. It turns out that in a

45:27

world where everything is online, that's how people find

45:29

stuff, how they discover. New businesses that

45:31

matters a lot. and when all

45:33

that is about to be hidden

45:35

away by some black box algorithm

45:37

that summarizes what it thinks is

45:39

the best thing based on whatever,

45:41

and who knows, I. Truly do

45:44

not think people are prepared for this

45:46

world. Yeah, and I think Google obviously

45:48

has. A A Reasons for wanting

45:50

to view at Evolved search engine this

45:52

like sales of it's a very risky

45:55

move for them for a few reasons.

45:57

One is as we know he's a

45:59

I. The can Getting drunk? they

46:01

can. They can be untrustworthy. They

46:04

can be erratic. I saw there

46:06

was a screenshots I'm going around

46:08

the other day on social media

46:10

I were someone asked google what

46:12

are some food names that end

46:14

with I'm and Googles experimental Ai

46:17

Overview said here's some fruit names

46:19

that and with I'm. Apple

46:21

I'm banana, I'm stronger, I'm

46:23

from Adam and coconut. And

46:27

like that's a funny example but I think they're

46:29

going to be a lot of examples of these

46:31

ai or views and least in their early days

46:33

to getting things wrong as the I do think

46:36

that will start to erode trust in Google overtime

46:38

I mean I think the as possible but I

46:40

would not count on it because there are mistakes

46:42

all the web pages that people are visiting to

46:44

add I'm not sure how much he just matters

46:47

in the and yes I think there's also business

46:49

risk here to me Google at you know. It

46:51

does make the vast majority of it's money

46:53

from showing ads right there on the search

46:56

results page, and it remains to be seen

46:58

whether they can serve monetize these A I

47:00

overviews as effectively as a traditional surf Results

47:02

By the way, they also make a lot

47:05

of money selling ads on third party website.

47:07

Their Google ad network is a big part

47:09

of their business. Tens of billions of dollars

47:12

a year if all of those web pages

47:14

suddenly have to close up because they're not

47:16

getting any traffic from Google any more than

47:18

that part of Googles add business has to

47:21

shrink. As well So that is totally true.

47:23

But keep in mind having it is Google

47:25

that has it's fingers on the Not. Google

47:27

is the one in control here. It gets

47:29

to decide how fast or slow moves in

47:31

a case like this. If it does something

47:33

that dramatically change something and aware doesn't like

47:36

it can always adds that. That's the important

47:38

thing is it is the one in the

47:40

driver's seat. Now for what the future of

47:42

the web looks like and what they are

47:44

telling us as Google is just going to

47:46

keep more and more of the that the

47:48

median internet experience to itself within its on

47:50

walled garden. Yes, do find any reason

47:53

for optimism in what you heard this

47:55

week at I. Oh well, you know

47:57

I was so desperate for optimism that

47:59

I texted. Executives Who: I have

48:01

some these backchannel conversations with The nurses and

48:03

executives who I would think. I think it's

48:05

fair to say it's generally thinks that I

48:07

am over rotate on being you know, concerned

48:10

and a worrier. you know consider you different

48:12

people and sector mostly his optimism and everything

48:14

messing everything is gonna be fine for every

48:16

one course. They also live in man sense.

48:18

But anyway this person said to me that

48:20

essentially it's. People. Still wants

48:23

novel content and experiences on the web.

48:25

Still have shared experiences with their friends.

48:27

They want real. Really some steps right

48:29

with you know with with public he

48:32

sends with writers. And so if you

48:34

were the kind of media business or

48:36

you're the kind of journalists that does

48:38

have an authentic audience that you are

48:40

doing a really good job for that

48:42

you're doing something novel, you're doing something

48:45

really smart. You might wind up being

48:47

in a better position coming out of

48:49

all deaths. because as much as I

48:51

love the. The the media it is

48:53

also true, there's a lot of garbage

48:55

and or business and there are a

48:58

lot of unscrupulous publishers that are publishing

49:00

lists of quote you know the best

49:02

vacuum that haven't tested a single vacuum

49:04

in their entire life but they figure

49:06

there's some upside and getting some of

49:08

that affiliate revenue self's if you want

49:10

optimistic case it is that google will

49:12

sort of cause all of those bad

49:14

actors to wash out at it will

49:17

leave a few brave proud publishers that

49:19

are doing honest worth standings to read

49:21

more of the benefits. Yes. I I

49:23

think my my reason for optimism here

49:25

is that I actually do think that

49:27

it is in Googles long term self

49:29

interests for their to be a vibrant

49:31

and healthy internet's I think that if

49:33

Google starts as are just aggregating and

49:35

summarizing the internet and spoon feeding it

49:37

to people through these A I overviews

49:39

I think that works fine for a

49:41

while and then I think they will

49:43

start to see one website clothes and

49:45

ten web sites clothes and one hundred

49:47

website closed and within a couple years

49:49

you're looking at just a very diminished

49:51

internet's and. Google in that world is not

49:53

going to have we a what is It's a

49:56

I going to crawl and summarize if there are

49:58

no web sites less. Just think

50:00

that we will. We will end up in

50:02

a world where all of the valuable information

50:04

on the Internet is sort of hidden behind

50:06

paywalls and subscription publications may be newsletters and

50:08

podcasts and you will just see of an

50:11

impoverished Google that is out there scraping as

50:13

hard as it can, trying to summarize what

50:15

it finds and not coming up with much.

50:17

Yeah, well, I I didn't have. that is

50:19

a possibility. I also think Google will just

50:21

gets increasingly. Guy was having this discussion with

50:23

friends last night's of like essentially this exact

50:25

thing you know whereas Google going to find

50:27

the information anymore and either you might think

50:29

of one example well as are you gonna

50:31

Paris and you want to know like what's

50:33

the best bakeries Well today I would rely

50:35

on a travel writer who is done there

50:38

and Imho and Bene recently right because you

50:40

know the best bakery from in two thousand.

50:42

Twenty four might not be the best bakery

50:44

and twenty twenties and we are talking about

50:46

cycle you know Google and actually just kind

50:48

of look at the foot traffic and all

50:50

the bakeries in Paris and say this one

50:52

is the most popular and that is not

50:54

actually going to require there to be a

50:56

healthy web feeding it that information rights. These

50:58

companies collect so much data. About us and

51:01

they are going to come up with

51:03

so many more novel ways. Season that's

51:05

I really do wonder if maybe we

51:07

aren't flattering ourselves when we tell ourselves

51:09

that they need us. I

51:12

hope you're wrong. I hope I'm

51:14

wrong. As planned, vote for any more, but

51:16

I do. I think this is or to

51:18

the flip side of a I vertigo this

51:21

feeling of like wow the future is coming

51:23

is like. I. Don't know that

51:25

our institutions, including our media as

51:27

Titians understand the gravity of what

51:29

happened this week ago. which is

51:31

that they did. Essentially, it's declare

51:33

that we're moving into a very

51:35

different era of the internet. We

51:37

had talked on the show for

51:40

more than a year now about

51:42

automation. A I'm coming for jobs

51:44

It is seemed like something on

51:46

acquaintance medium to distant horizon. it's

51:48

But I do think that at

51:50

Io The Sweets we saw the

51:52

beginning of an arrival of something.

51:54

Like that and against it is starting in the

51:56

media but it is not going to stop there.

52:00

One more thing. I phone records the segment. I.

52:02

Got a little emotional watching this

52:04

announcement to am for maybe some

52:06

similar reasons as you but my

52:08

emotions like I just feel like

52:10

I'm being gassed Live here Publishers

52:12

People who work in online media

52:14

have known that Google has plans

52:16

to sub generative ai into search

52:18

results for years. We we talked

52:20

to the Ceo of Perplexity a

52:23

few months ago who basically told

52:25

us like yes, if we do

52:27

start generating these a I summaries

52:29

of search results, people will click

52:31

on less news and. I actually admire

52:33

that he was honest about that. Google

52:35

is not being honest about this. They

52:37

are telling people we're still committed to

52:39

sending traffic to publishers. People are not

52:41

gonna start clicking on links just because

52:43

they have these like a I summaries

52:45

above their search results and I. I

52:47

really just wish that someone at Google

52:49

would come out and say yes, your

52:51

traffic is gonna fall off a cliff.

52:53

But here's why we think it's important

52:55

anyway. but instead they are trying to

52:57

signal to users that this is going

52:59

to be a good and useful things

53:01

they're trying to. Make publishers feel

53:03

less scared and frankly I just felt like

53:06

being a is elegant tending at a funeral

53:08

disguised as a wedding. Yeah, and this actually

53:10

is the reason that we need media to

53:12

exist and as well as because we will

53:14

try to tell you the truth and have

53:17

some, we will try to go beyond our

53:19

own neural self interest and tell you what's

53:21

going on when I tell me we're going

53:23

to like Note: basically destroyed the foundations of

53:26

the open internet. Now I thought exact same

53:28

way or I haven't Well, I'm afraid that's

53:30

all my contacts window can hold for. This

53:32

conversation. so we're just going to sort

53:34

of have to purge that and we

53:36

will have to return to the subjects

53:39

another time. Yes, and he will have

53:41

plenty more opportunities to revisit the subject

53:43

and and will be You can find

53:45

us podcasting under an old bridge on

53:47

the abandoned railroad. Afraid of what's your

53:49

post media plan for when all the

53:51

Google traffic us like are you gonna

53:53

become a farmer? If if the digital

53:55

media guys really into Tv and Vcr

53:57

repair. I did this a break.

54:00

Her. And now. The

54:07

around a bit. he. Was.

54:20

Supported by How To Fix the Internet

54:22

and original podcast from the Electronic Frontier

54:24

Foundation. The Internet was

54:26

supposed to be a utopia of

54:29

creativity, freedom, and innovation, but instead

54:31

their surveillance, capitalism and social. Media

54:33

trolls. On How to six

54:36

the Internet has Cindy Cohen and

54:38

she essentially talk the technologists, policymakers,

54:40

And activists working the make the Internet

54:42

better. Here, concrete solutions with much

54:44

needed optimism to the problems of how

54:47

we six the Internet. Follow. How

54:49

to Fix the Internet anywhere you listen to

54:51

podcasts, Well.

54:53

Covered some time to time on the so

54:55

we like to take a quick run through

54:57

the news and a segment we call at

54:59

Cbt. Zebra,

55:08

Jesus Court the segment on our somewhere. We had

55:10

headlines from the week and we pull them out

55:12

of our. Hats and we riff on them

55:14

a bit until. One of us gets bored with

55:16

what the other person and thanks I was point we say.

55:19

That. Entering and then we move onto the next

55:21

headline. So Casey was you were used to the

55:23

baseball hunter the bucket hat. I didn't We should

55:25

use the bucket hat in honor of Rocky The

55:27

Open A I implore you put on a bucket

55:29

hat this week when demo ing the new home

55:31

assistant. I like Gov. It's. That

55:36

want to do yoga first? ah once you

55:38

go first or guess was making we mix

55:40

them up for me and I was as

55:42

in a four million in of him We

55:45

have to mix up all the headlines and

55:47

had better to Just like Jostle had the

55:49

microphone is a been suffering were Jocelyn we're

55:51

heading that microphone microphone as and from a

55:53

different than ours was our. First

55:58

story. The

56:00

X Customers poised to recover all funds

56:02

lost in collapse. This comes from my

56:04

colleague David Jaffe. Belly of the or

56:06

times customers of the failed crypto currency

56:09

Sees Mtx are poised to recover all

56:11

of the money they lost when the

56:13

from collapsing twenty Twenty two and receive

56:15

interest on top of it. The company's

56:18

bankruptcy lawyers said last week under a

56:20

plan filed in Federal bankruptcy court virtually

56:22

all enough to access creditors will receive

56:24

tax payments equivalent to a hundred and

56:26

eighteen percent of the assets they had

56:29

stored on F. T X are just so

56:31

as to prove the plan and it may still

56:33

take months for the com money. Treat customers or

56:35

this is an amazing story that suit Now others

56:37

have pointed out that if you had simply are

56:39

taken the money you had in Fcx went all

56:41

sat down and just like used it to. by

56:43

that point you actually be in a way better

56:45

position than you are today So it is not

56:47

right to say that everybody sort of came out

56:49

smelling like rosie or by based on what you've

56:51

said Kevin I do have forwards that I would

56:54

like to say it's to the people of the

56:56

United States and they are these freezer bag and

56:58

fried. Have

57:01

no doubt that is not the rural

57:03

here. So sandbag been freed is has

57:05

been sentences currently doing a twenty five

57:08

year prison sentence for his his role

57:10

in this collapse alleged role nice not

57:12

alleged. If you been convicted in the

57:15

seizure in prison know it's we can

57:17

just say it he did a fraud

57:19

with this file. This is an amazing

57:22

result in part because Was Embankment Free

57:24

does appear to have Benny a giant

57:26

froth sir He did actually have a

57:29

good nose for. Investment. So one of

57:31

the things that he put money into Salina

57:33

which is that a crypto tokens. Part of

57:35

the reason that they are able to return

57:37

this money to creditors is because Salon or

57:39

has been booming. Bitcoin has also been booming

57:41

and some of the other investments that same

57:44

bag been freed made including a stake in

57:46

Anthropic. The Ai companies have become much more

57:48

valuable since the firm's collapse which is would

57:50

just an amazing a testament to the bag

57:52

the you can be a giant fraudster is

57:54

still be pretty good at investing. Yeah when

57:57

this guy gets out of prison I think

57:59

he's going to. The Great Partner and Andreessen

58:01

Horowitz. Alright

58:04

let's stop generating site. Your.

58:06

Son and I'll do money or. Bundles

58:09

founder says your dating ai concierge will

58:11

soon date hundreds of other people's concierge.

58:14

As for you, this is from fourteen

58:16

months at the Bloomberg Tech Summit in

58:18

San Francisco last week, Wheatley Wolf heard

58:20

the founder and former Ceo a bubble

58:22

predicted that signals would one day deploy

58:24

a i Didn't concierge as help them

58:27

by Lumps Wolf her told the crowd

58:29

there's a world where you're dating concierge

58:31

could go a day for you with

58:33

other dating. How serious that off to

58:35

talk to six hundred people. So Kevin,

58:37

what do you make of. This form

58:40

of theoretical future dating. So she got

58:42

a lot of backlash to this comment.

58:44

I was at the the Bloomberg tax

58:46

on that were this happened and up

58:48

immediately when it went under the internet

58:50

people started saying like this is dystopias.

58:52

I want to defend this idea of

58:54

crime to get I think we are

58:57

be in I I'm not, I'm dating

58:59

apps But my impression is that most

59:01

people who'd gone the dating apps are

59:03

already basically glorified algorithms. Are this: They

59:05

are using one of like three preset

59:07

lines that they've come up with. They

59:09

are basically trying to quickly assess compatibility. It's

59:12

but they're they're not. You know they're not

59:14

having real deep authentic conversations. at least not

59:16

right away. And if they I could save

59:18

you some time by by going out and

59:21

dating people on your behalf and saying this

59:23

person the losers person is or isn't White

59:25

House of I think this could say people

59:27

are time What he thinks I do not

59:30

think you would say people are time because

59:32

you know here is the sag you know

59:34

I'm also not on dating apps anymore hashtag

59:37

soft launch. But what I remember when I

59:39

was. was that oftentimes you would say

59:41

to somebody you know hey like has a

59:43

rich going and they were just respond with

59:45

pay and then you would think oh this

59:47

person isn't super undies i'm going to move

59:50

us a world in which the person who

59:52

responded hey is using a bot to do

59:54

responses on it's perhaps is doing everyone a

59:56

disservice rights because of this is a person

59:58

who can even be to complete a sentence

1:00:01

when I say hello to them, the odds are

1:00:03

that I'm gonna enjoy my time with him is

1:00:05

just sort of like very low. So

1:00:08

is there some world where some sort of AI

1:00:10

something is helpful in enhancing

1:00:13

the online dating experience? I'm very open to

1:00:15

that, but if it is essentially just AI

1:00:17

is tricking each other into thinking that the

1:00:19

other person is like a really good writer

1:00:21

and has a huge personality, then they're gonna

1:00:24

be wasting even more time than people are

1:00:26

wasting on these apps already. Yeah, I do

1:00:28

think it opens up some interesting possibilities, but

1:00:30

I can see how people would find it dystopian. My

1:00:33

main thing is like, I just hope that they,

1:00:36

what am I saying? What are you saying Kevin? I've always

1:00:38

wanted to ask you this, what are you saying? Yeah,

1:00:42

in conclusion, I'm very glad I'm not single.

1:00:44

All right, stop generating. Sonos

1:00:51

says it's controversial app redesign took

1:00:53

courage. This is from the Verge.

1:00:55

Sonos, the connected speaker company released

1:00:57

a major update to its mobile

1:00:59

app earlier this month to

1:01:01

quote the Verge. In the days since

1:01:03

customers have complained about missing features like

1:01:05

sleep primers, broken local music library management,

1:01:08

and no longer having the ability to

1:01:10

edit playlists or the upcoming song queue.

1:01:12

Customers were very angry about this. And

1:01:14

in response, Sonos' chief product officer told

1:01:16

the Verge, quote, it takes courage

1:01:19

to rebuild a brand's core product from the

1:01:21

ground up and to do so knowing it

1:01:23

may require taking a few steps back to

1:01:25

ultimately leap into the future. Casey, what do

1:01:27

you make of this? You know, I'm not

1:01:29

sure that I would say that Sonos executives

1:01:31

move to courage here. I would say it

1:01:33

seems more likely that they took mushrooms

1:01:36

or some other sort of psychedelic substance

1:01:38

that sort of melted their defenses until

1:01:40

all they could do was give us

1:01:42

the app that they did. Look, I

1:01:44

have been in a daily war against

1:01:46

my Sonos system for years now. When

1:01:48

it works, there's nothing better. The problem is

1:01:50

it doesn't work a lot of the time.

1:01:53

And so when I got this new app,

1:01:55

I thought maybe they have finally solved all

1:01:57

of my issues and I swear to the

1:01:59

heavens, Kevin. the volume slider in this app,

1:02:01

which let's just say is one of the core

1:02:03

things I want to do to my Sonos system

1:02:05

a lot of the time is adjust the volume.

1:02:08

It is not persistent. It only

1:02:10

appears when Sonos sort of knows

1:02:12

that something is... Anyway,

1:02:14

the point of the story is the number of

1:02:16

things that this app could do could fill a

1:02:18

segment much longer than Chatubee. I'm

1:02:21

confused because it seems like the job of the

1:02:23

Sonos speaker should be fairly simple, which is play

1:02:25

the music that I want when I connect to

1:02:27

it. You're so right. I don't own a Sonos

1:02:30

speaker. So you tell me, is that your experience?

1:02:32

No, my experience is I say, Sonos, please connect

1:02:34

to Spotify, which is what I play music from.

1:02:36

And Sonos says, I have no idea who you're

1:02:38

talking about. I've never seen this man before and

1:02:41

I want you to leave my house. And

1:02:43

I say, this is the entire job that I've given you. So

1:02:45

it's a real problem. And I

1:02:48

wish us Sonos continued courage as they try to

1:02:50

build their first functional app. All right. Stop generating.

1:02:52

All right. Oh,

1:03:00

this is interesting, Kevin. Inappropriate behavior

1:03:02

shuts down the Dublin to New

1:03:04

York City portal. Less than

1:03:07

a week after two public sculptures featuring a

1:03:09

live stream between Dublin, Ireland and New York

1:03:11

City debuted. Quote, inappropriate behavior

1:03:13

and real time interactions between people

1:03:15

in the two cities has prompted

1:03:17

a temporary shutdown. The portals, as

1:03:19

the sculptures are called, are the

1:03:22

brainchild of a Lithuanian artist named

1:03:24

Benedictus Gillis. And they were

1:03:26

shut down Monday night after video spread on social

1:03:28

media. Visitors misbehaving in front of them, including an

1:03:30

OnlyFans model in New York flashing the

1:03:32

portal and people in Dublin holding up

1:03:34

swastikas. So, Kevin, what are the odds

1:03:36

of you just set up two giant

1:03:39

cameras in Dublin and New York that

1:03:41

people would troll them? What

1:03:43

are the odds? Close to 100 percent,

1:03:45

I would say. No, I was bummed

1:03:47

out about this because I did actually

1:03:50

think the portals were a cool idea.

1:03:52

This is basically like a giant sort

1:03:54

of screen that was placed in kind

1:03:56

of a circular enclosure that had a

1:03:58

live streaming feed that. where you could

1:04:00

basically go up to this thing in New York

1:04:02

City and see people who are staring into the

1:04:05

portal in Dublin, and you could kind of have

1:04:07

like this wormhole between the two cities. And

1:04:09

we could recognize our shared humanity. Exactly! But

1:04:11

as it turns out, it was more useful

1:04:14

for flashing and holding up swastikas. This

1:04:16

is why we can't have nice things. Well, you know,

1:04:18

Kevin, I'm Irish, and I have to wonder if there

1:04:20

was just sort of something about our mischievous nature that,

1:04:23

you know, led the New Yorkers to Miss Babe.

1:04:25

I do also just like the name, The Portal.

1:04:27

You know, it's sort of a genre with the

1:04:29

sphere in Las Vegas. I just think we need more

1:04:32

things of that nature, things that are sort

1:04:34

of the titles of Michael Crichton novels made

1:04:37

into reality. But it is sort of like vaguely ominous.

1:04:39

Yes. Alright, stop generating. Oh,

1:04:45

this one's for you. After 28

1:04:47

years, someone opened an unopenable door

1:04:49

in Super Mario 64. This

1:04:52

comes from The Verge. On April 22nd,

1:04:54

user AlexPallax1 posted a video on Discord

1:04:56

showing how he got through an unopenable

1:04:59

noblest door, which everyone previously thought was

1:05:01

impossible. To do it, he used a

1:05:03

workaround involving getting a mother penguin to

1:05:06

push Mario into the door while also

1:05:08

doing a turnaround move. It turns out

1:05:10

if you use this technique, you can

1:05:13

open the door, but it doesn't actually

1:05:15

save you any time in playing the game. Well,

1:05:17

listen, I hate to tell you this, Kevin, but

1:05:19

I think AlexPallax has made a terrible mistake. I

1:05:22

think some doors are closed for a reason, and I

1:05:24

think an ancient evil has been awakened. And

1:05:27

if hell is unleashed in this country over the

1:05:29

next weeks and months, we will truly only have

1:05:31

AlexPallax to blame. I mean, I

1:05:33

truly do love the people that never stop playing

1:05:35

video games, like the speed run community for the

1:05:38

Mario games or for Tetris. I mean, these people,

1:05:40

the lengths that they go to to shave two

1:05:42

seconds off their time to open the unopenable door

1:05:44

is truly inspirational. I also just hope that

1:05:46

we have a national security plan that

1:05:48

involves elevating people like AlexPallax into sort

1:05:50

of code breakers, you know, working for

1:05:52

the Department of Defense. Like we could

1:05:54

put these skills to real use. I

1:05:56

also want to say for everyone complaining,

1:05:59

the younger generation. has no attention span

1:06:01

like this person, the attention span on

1:06:03

him. I'm super jealous. It's true. All

1:06:05

right. Stop generating. All

1:06:07

right. All right. Casey last

1:06:09

one. Last one. Oh,

1:06:12

this is, this is a good one. Man

1:06:14

fools, Waymo self-driving cars with stop sign

1:06:16

t-shirt. This is from car scoops, which

1:06:19

is where I get all my scoops

1:06:21

about cars and Arizona

1:06:23

content creator Jason B car. This

1:06:25

could not be real. Jason B

1:06:27

car is like the Johnny be

1:06:30

good. And Arizona

1:06:42

content creator Jason B car made a t-shirt

1:06:44

with a stop sign to see what Waymo's

1:06:46

autonomous test vehicles will do in a series

1:06:49

of videos posted to cars. And so Ramy

1:06:51

tested whether Waymo self-driving vehicles actually stopped when

1:06:53

they saw him wearing the shirt while standing

1:06:55

on the sidewalk. He said he believes that

1:06:57

the autonomous vehicle may be confusing him with

1:06:59

a construction worker holding a stop sign. What

1:07:02

do you think Kevin? I think we are

1:07:04

entering a bold new era of autonomous car

1:07:06

hijacks. I think the people are already starting

1:07:08

to find so many creative and

1:07:10

nefarious ways of messing with these things. And

1:07:13

I think that if I were Waymo, I'd be very

1:07:16

annoyed. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, you see

1:07:18

this already in San Francisco. I mean, not as much

1:07:20

anymore, but when the AVs just first started rolling around

1:07:22

in the streets, people would just walk in front of

1:07:24

them to see what they would do. I feel like

1:07:27

the confidence that people had in these AVs was staggering.

1:07:29

This was different because Jason car apparently figured out Jason

1:07:31

B car apparently figured out that you don't even need

1:07:33

to walk in front of it. If you're just wearing

1:07:36

a shirt with a stop sign big enough on it,

1:07:38

it will just stop. Even if you're on the sidewalk,

1:07:40

Jason B car woke up and once said today, I

1:07:42

be stop sign. All

1:07:47

Right, Casey, that is hat GPT. That's how

1:07:49

we play hat GPT. Time To close off

1:07:51

the old hat. Hats Off to you Kevin.

1:08:03

This. Podcast is supported by How To

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anywhere you the Cineplex? Have

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produced by Rental Car and when

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He Jones were edited and we

1:08:44

are set on. My nose engineer

1:08:46

for as. High.

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As you must know until now

1:08:52

or on his editor know who.

1:08:56

And by my manning and. And

1:08:59

you. To back off. Banks

1:09:02

oppose. Human Fluids Him Democracy or

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Jeffrey Miranda email us at Hard

1:09:07

Fork and want time has come.

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On and off. Something

1:09:41

which is no the best way. For you

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is a race based on you with

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all state lottery based on Harry who

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he's. A

1:09:50

makes the car behind them. Oh

1:09:53

no doubt about. Save

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the Jaguars and all. The and

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only daily basis. Not

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available in every state or to the terms and conditions. Rating

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that doesn't seem very and in some states or could increase

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with i was driving all say fire and insurance company and

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affiliates. Don't fuck Illinois.