0:00

In this, the second part of our two-part series on primal fitness,

0:04

we welcome Brad Kearns, co-author of many of Mark Sisson's books,

0:09

including Primal Endurance, the host of the Be Rad podcast,

0:13

former professional triathlete and world champion endurance athlete,

0:17

and a guy who remains incredibly competitive in sports and fitness to this day,

0:22

defying the usual laws of aging.

0:24

Our conversation with Brad was awesome.

0:28

We really took a hard look at the fitness industry, where the opportunities are for change and why.

0:35

It's Brad's assertion, and we agree, that the fitness industry is due for a major renaissance.

0:41

In part it would serve us well to

0:44

stop thinking of fitness as a separate component

0:47

from health as in the often used phrased the

0:50

health and fitness industry fitness is health

0:54

when fitness is done right and care is taken to avoid overreaching overtraining

1:00

injury and burnout this is just a really great conversation with brad and we

1:05

do hope you'll enjoy it and maybe me start to reconsider how you view human

1:09

fitness for your clients. Once again, please welcome our guest, the always entertaining and thought-provoking Brad Kearns.

1:20

Hi, I'm Erin Power. And I'm Laura Rupsis. We're Certified Health Coaches,

1:24

and this is Health Coach Radio. This podcast is about the art, science, and business of health coaching.

1:31

We share our insider tips to help you become a better coach, and entrepreneur.

1:36

And we interview expert guests to discover how they've made it in this growing field.

1:41

It's time for health coaches to make an impact. It's time for Health Coach Radio.

1:47

All right. Today on Health Coach Radio, we have the fabulous Brad Kearns back. How are you, Brad?

1:54

Oh, my gosh. I'm fantastic. I'm so happy to connect with you guys and be back on Health Coach Radio.

2:01

So we have you on for a very special reason. Spoiler alert.

2:05

We're coming out with a very special course that you helped us write,

2:08

the Primal Fitness Coach Certification.

2:12

Huge news. And we handpicked you, actually, because you seem to be the perfect

2:17

fit to write this curriculum. Why don't you give our audience a little bit of

2:21

a background story on you and kind of why you're the perfect fit for this?

2:25

It is huge news because it's an absolutely huge course.

2:29

And we've been talking about it for so long and realizing that the foundation

2:35

of taking the health coach curriculum and learning all about primal living has

2:39

been well received over the past.

2:41

Well, geez, it's been what? How many years? Seven or eight years since this whole deal started.

2:47

But you know fitness is becoming

2:51

I think more and more popular especially

2:54

with quarantine people are doing it on their on their own

2:57

and now the gyms are back open and people are heading

3:00

back and I just see like an explosion or an awakening of

3:03

the importance of fitness in a general life for health vitality longevity and

3:08

it's really great to see because of course you know we've been in the fitness

3:11

game forever but it's been overlooked by people like my peers my old friends

3:17

Some people just don't work out. They just sit in a car. They go to the building.

3:21

They sit at the desk. They consume digital entertainment at night.

3:25

And now I see sort of a cultural trend in favor of realizing that we want to

3:31

get out there and move our bodies. And at the same time, that's the good news.

3:36

I'm also seeing these unfortunate trends prevail in the fitness scene,

3:42

which is this struggle and suffer approach as a sort of a foundation or an ethos

3:49

of how to get your body into good shape.

3:52

And it's glamorized and glorified by the, no offense, six pack females on the

3:57

magazine covers. Like, really? I refer you to Olympic runner Lauren Fleshman.

4:05

She has a blog article showing pictures of herself taken during the same week.

4:10

And one of them was on the runway, all greased up and with the perfect lighting

4:15

and her glistening six pack. And then another one was like a cameo while she was doing a workout.

4:20

And she's like, everyone has thigh cheese, even Olympic runners was her caption.

4:25

It was hilarious because she showed how you can manipulate what the person really

4:29

is like, just from that sensationalized image.

4:33

But we're marching down this path and we're luring in the average person.

4:39

Uh well-meaning uh health enthusiast

4:42

who tiptoes over to the gym hoping to

4:46

do themselves a solid and get their life on track and get

4:48

into the fitness realm and in many cases

4:51

they get they get toasted by uh the um the mentality and the programming and

4:58

i'm especially picking on the mainstream programming because the most popular

5:01

modes of fitness programming are by and large inherently overly stressful and

5:07

putting an enthusiast at risk of breakdown, burnout, illness, and injury.

5:11

And for those watching on video, you guys are both nodding your heads.

5:15

We all know this when we're inside the scene and living and breathing this every day.

5:18

But unfortunately, the average person is going in there, turning their life

5:23

over, putting it into the hands of perhaps it's a Peloton workout that they're

5:28

doing at home, or it's a trainer, or it's a group class with 27 other people.

5:33

And there's not enough attention, in my opinion, to that individualized,

5:38

sensible, baby steps approach to fitness where everything feels enjoyable.

5:44

You make little progress, you make small celebrations and small victories.

5:49

And you're never in that state of mind where you dread it, which is so common.

5:54

And then we have the attrition rates, which are validated to be extreme in things

6:00

like the group training programs, like where they get together,

6:03

and they train for six months to compete in a destination event,

6:08

a goal event, like a marathon. And boy, isn't that great, you went from the couch to the marathon in six months,

6:13

and then it's on your wall. And that's the last fitness objective you've done in the last five years,

6:18

because it just wasn't, it wasn't a good fit.

6:21

And that's not answering your, your tee up question, Laura.

6:24

So, um, that's just my, um, that's just, that's just on my mind right now as

6:28

we, as we get into how this course is so different. Uh, but for those who don't know me that are listening, um, I please direct

6:34

you to your previous shows where we talked at length about all kinds of fun

6:39

stuff in my background, but I'm a lifelong athlete.

6:41

I've been in the fitness scene for so long and I was formerly a professional triathlete.

6:46

Um, I had a great, experience in my youth of pursuing my dream for a career

6:53

and for my competitive aspirations.

6:55

And I raced on the pro circuit all over the world for nine years at my best. I was national champ.

7:00

I was ranked number three in the world. So I reached these really high levels as an athlete,

7:05

but I also got my ass kicked so many times and had such pain and suffering of

7:11

the psychological logical form as well as the physical form and had to learn the hard way.

7:17

That it's really important to emphasize the process.

7:21

It's to emphasize personal growth and development rather than being obsessed

7:25

and fixated on outcomes, because that's when you struggle.

7:29

That's when you make mistakes. And so when I was able to get into that center

7:33

of power where my motivation was completely pure,

7:36

and I love what I was doing every day, and I love to get on that bike seat and

7:41

go off and pedal into the mountains for five hours and come back with a smile

7:44

on my face and eat a nutritious meal and take a nap and then head over to the

7:49

swimming pool and have some more fun swimming back and forth laps.

7:52

When I was enjoying it to that level, that's when I was able to perform at my best.

7:57

And at those other times when I was caught up in the business aspects of being

8:02

an athlete, for example, and forcing the process of fitness to happen in a manner

8:07

that wasn't natural or sustainable,

8:10

that's when I struggled and And that's when I'd get tossed off the back of the

8:13

pack anyway, even though I was being all tough and serious and competitive and

8:18

driven and focused and all these things that we celebrate.

8:21

So I'm here for the rest of my, you know, my, my, my calling is to share with

8:25

other people that look, it doesn't have to be pain and suffering.

8:29

You don't have to grit your teeth or, you know, brave the minus 20 degree weather

8:34

in Canada to get out there and put in your mileage.

8:37

Otherwise you're going to get out of shape. And that's what I have fun doing

8:40

and love to connect with you guys on that level.

8:43

Even from the coaching space, we're talking about doing everything in that manner,

8:47

your dietary transformation and so forth. But I'm sure we'll redirect the conversation into the fitness and the specifics

8:53

of how this course that we've developed is different.

8:57

We will. We certainly will. And now we can all take a deep breath. Okay.

9:01

We tap our parasympathetic nervous system state, which is another thing that

9:04

gets missed in the fitness industry as well a little bit.

9:07

But honestly, Brad, that was such a wickedly great just summary of the potential

9:15

two halves of the fitness culture.

9:19

We already know the struggle and suffer half of it, but no one's really been

9:22

talking about the sort of more supportive, longevity-inspired, true health.

9:27

Mark called it utilitarian fitness, which is sort of like a notch almost,

9:31

I don't know, above or below or lateral to functional.

9:34

It's just sort of this basic human stuff. But I love how you described it.

9:39

Everything feels enjoyable. You achieve small victories. You never dread it.

9:44

Attrition becomes a non-issue. And your motivation to move comes from a place of happiness and joy.

9:50

So I, you know, I just had, I onboarded a new client today who one of her many,

9:54

I guess, struggles with, with her body and with food and with her health is

9:58

that she feels like she has to do these punishing workouts seven days a week,

10:02

these punishing cardio sort of chronic cardio workouts.

10:05

And when I asked her, you know, why that felt important to her,

10:08

all of her answers around these workouts came from, from a place of fear.

10:13

There's fear, terrified of what happens if she lets go of this intense workout schedule.

10:18

My body's going to change. I won't be fit, you know, just fear, fear, fear, fear.

10:21

Her motivation to do the workouts was fear and just worry.

10:25

And so now you're flipping the script and saying, let's do it from a perspective

10:29

of pure motivation and joy and happiness,

10:31

which is such a paradigm shift, like an absolute paradigm shift,

10:35

but one that the industry is, I think, speaking as a 30-year fitness industry

10:39

vet, it's ripe for this renaissance for sure.

10:43

So anyways, that was just a Bravo sort of summary of where we're at and what

10:48

brought us here. So thank you for that. Yeah, thoughts on that? I think one thing to add on that is after spreading

10:59

this message for many years, I've noticed there's a lot of inherent questions.

11:07

Realization and understanding of it. It's not a radical new thing that we have

11:10

to beat into your head and convince you that Brad's message makes sense.

11:15

Everyone realizes this deep down. And so then I go in for the kill,

11:19

especially when I'm dealing with one-to-one client situation,

11:22

or when I have that opportunity to say, look,

11:25

you know this to be true, but you're still out there playing out,

11:31

let's say, your fears, your insecurities,

11:34

your obsessive compulsive behavior tendencies, And all these things tend to

11:38

continue to sprinkle into the mix.

11:40

So that's when the individual with the support of a great caring coach is compelled

11:46

to look in the mirror and ask yourself, why the heck are you doing this to your body?

11:51

Or why are you pursuing your fitness goals in general?

11:54

And stay connected to that purpose at all times, because it's easy to get the

11:58

ego brought into the mix where you forget about your highest ideals and your values. use.

12:04

And I laugh because I'm thinking of these questionnaires that I would give to my triathlete clients.

12:09

And they'd say, you know, what are your goals for the season?

12:12

What are your highest purpose in all, you know, I'd ask these big picture questions

12:15

and they'd be like, I want to be a role model to my children ages 10 and 12,

12:19

as I complete the Ironman and cross the finish line and they can cheer for me.

12:23

And I'm like, you kids 10 and 12, don't give a crap about what dad's doing for

12:27

16 hours out there all day long while they're getting dragged around to watch

12:32

Watch the bike finish and then the run start and then the run,

12:35

you know, they want to go get some cotton candy and some ice cream and play

12:38

some video games and go to the beach. So don't kid yourself that this is some, something beyond, um.

12:44

You know, the personal growth aspects.

12:47

And I think that part, and then on your day-to-day training decisions,

12:51

we have to put the ego aside if, if desired, or if we don't want to put the

12:57

ego aside and we want to just admit

12:59

that, hey, I need an outlet for my obsessive compulsive tendencies and my frustration

13:03

dealing with the workplace or the home. And so I'm just going to go blast another workout.

13:08

That's okay. I'm not going to judge that.

13:10

Anymore, right? It's okay. You do what you want to do with your life,

13:15

but just be really clear about your purpose so that you don't then complain

13:19

four months later that you have an overuse injury and you're so unlucky.

13:24

And now you're going to have to try some different shoes because there goes your feet again.

13:28

And that's about being honest and being kind of vulnerable with your contribution

13:36

as the individual to the quote unquote problem or whatever's not is completely satisfying.

13:42

Yeah. Well, I like that. That was good because a coach, a coach's job is to

13:47

help the client connect to values.

13:50

Like, why is this really important to you? And sometimes the client can,

13:54

they can kind of fake you out.

13:56

Like you gave the example of the role model and, and, you know,

14:00

we, we would come at this non-judgmentally. I want to role role model,

14:02

you know, health and fitness for my kids. Well, why is that important to you? Or like, what does that look like for them?

14:07

What type of behavior do you want to model for them?

14:09

Obsessive exercise or, or longevity or easy relationship with your body?

14:14

Like we can go deeper and actually, and that's in my mind, the most important

14:18

role of a coach is to truly connect to intrinsic.

14:22

Motivations and values because the fitness industry does hit it at kind of a

14:27

shallow angle and people, people know the right things to say to sound motivating,

14:30

but what is the real motivation so truly the fitness

14:33

industry has kind of been missing this kind of

14:36

has literally been missing this i think and i would say this with great respect

14:40

to all my personal trainer peers that we have spent time in the rep counting

14:43

role long enough um why why not have conversations with your clients about what's

14:51

truly important to them and what's what's really motivating them and

14:55

even this client that i onboarded today when i asked her what's motivating

14:58

you to do these seven workouts a day she realized like there's

15:01

nothing good there's it's only fear it's only fear and control

15:04

and that was a real aha for her nobody had asked her that in specifically with

15:08

respect to her her first workout addiction so this is uh this is the role of

15:14

the coach in fitness and we are certifying fitness coaches in this program um

15:22

what do you think of fitness coaches brad. I guess it's a new term because we typically have the trainer who's been,

15:32

you know, pictured as a rep counter.

15:36

That's sort of a criticism of, you know, a basic level trainer.

15:40

But there's so many wonderful people and people that have shaped my journey

15:44

as an athlete that go so far beyond just talking about the nuts and bolts.

15:49

I was just looking at an email newsletter from this guy, Dan Pfaff,

15:53

P-F-A-F-F. He's one of the greatest track and field coaches of all time.

15:57

He's coached many Olympic athletes, specialties in the jumps.

16:00

But if you read his sign up for his email newsletters, they're almost,

16:04

almost, almost none of the content relates to technique instruction and his areas of expertise.

16:13

I'm thinking of Kelly Starrett, too, prominent name in the fitness scene.

16:16

I did a long podcast with him, maybe close to two hours, and he almost didn't

16:22

cover his area of expertise.

16:24

He was more talking about plugging your mobile phone in the hallway instead

16:29

of the bedroom and hitting that point so hard.

16:32

And it's like, wait, are you going to talk about shoulder mobility?

16:34

No, because he's trying to look at this big picture and realize why people are

16:39

coming into overuse injuries in the fitness scene.

16:42

And it's because they're not giving themselves adequate rest as a small aside

16:45

example. And so I like pulling that perspective out.

16:49

And I think we did a good job in the course trying to go beyond.

16:54

I mean, if you're looking at the need to become competent in all manner of fitness

17:01

instruction and knowledge, you're going to get some great videos and commentary about deadlift form and

17:08

reps and proper design of a workout. out.

17:11

But I think we try to sprinkle in that primal health coach oozing message of,

17:18

hey, let's, you know, let's remember why we're doing it here and fit these things

17:23

into overall daily lifestyle conveniently rather than, I think a lot of fitness programming,

17:29

they assume the participant is coming in with an Olympic athlete type lifestyle where they're saying,

17:36

you know, do this, do that, do do this, do that.

17:39

And it adds up to 27 minutes before you start your workout.

17:43

It's like, wait, my workout's supposed to be 27 minutes because I got to go

17:45

pick up the kids at nursery school. That part's kind of missing too.

17:49

It's interesting when I listen to people who have been in the industry for a

17:55

very long time and at the top of their game and truly identify as coaches and,

18:02

The podcasts I listen to, a lot of the things that I end up reading about is

18:06

all about all the other stuff. I mean, we interviewed John Berardi, right?

18:10

Who was like a nutrition PhD, exercise science PhD, kind of a guy who wrote

18:15

a book called, what's it called? Changemaker, I think, right? And it's all about sort of mindset and all of the other stuff.

18:21

The same thing with Kelly Starrett. So I think once a coach really feels as

18:26

though they've dialed in that side, they're an expert in that. And yeah, that's important and all this other stuff. But I think the longer

18:30

you're in this business, the more you realize how much more important all the

18:34

stuff that happens in your client's life outside of that hour that you have with them is.

18:39

And all the training certifications that are out there only cover that.

18:44

Right. So what we've developed here, what we've asked you to develop is,

18:48

you know, the expertise in this primal fitness in particular,

18:53

which we've really kind of coined as, you know, fitness for longevity,

18:57

for life, a lifestyle of fitness.

19:00

And then and from there, you're just sort of an expert. I think most of the

19:03

programs out there is their trainer programs.

19:06

Right. I mean, I coach at a CrossFit gym down the street here and I've got a

19:11

tank that says coach. coach when I'm there for an hour.

19:13

I'm not coaching. I'm instructing is what I'm doing.

19:17

Or perhaps I'm programming or what have you. But I'm not really coaching in that hour.

19:21

Coaching is what really happens outside of what's in the gym.

19:24

And so when you compile all the aspects of what's going to be the primal fitness

19:29

coach certification is the expertise in this sort of fitness for function and

19:33

longevity in life, but then coaching and business.

19:37

But we really needed to flesh out all the details of what that means, right?

19:42

Not just functional fitness. We talked about utilitarian fitness,

19:45

but also just fitness as a lifestyle is really what I think us and added a lot

19:52

of nuance in detail on how this all fits in.

19:55

So do you mind walking us through like the actual curriculum and the content that you wrote?

20:00

Did you say walking? Why? That is a wonderful term to use.

20:04

I think if we want to jump to some of the big takeaways. I think the.

20:13

The way that this programming differs or stands out is that first and foremost,

20:19

we reject that flawed mentality of struggle and suffer and do everything possible

20:26

to get away from anything that has even the slightest whiff of a chronic pattern

20:33

in your exercise program,

20:35

because that is truly a disaster.

20:38

I told you about my triathlon background, and this is, you know,

20:41

decades ago, And now it's really tragic to see there's a high prevalence of

20:47

long-term extreme endurance athletes coming up with heart problems in their later years.

20:52

And many of my peers have suffered extreme misfortune, like the great Steve

20:57

Larson, one of the greatest endurance athletes of all time in America.

21:00

He competed in the Giro d'Italia as a pro cyclist. He won the world in XTERRA triathlon.

21:06

He set the bike course record at Hawaii Ironman. and he dropped dead of a heart

21:09

attack at age 39 while doing a track workout in Bend, Oregon.

21:12

He left four kids, two businesses. He was a real go-getter.

21:16

He was still racing at the pro level at age 39 while running two businesses and raising four kids.

21:21

And this picture of fitness suffered a tragic health consequence. And it's not uncommon.

21:29

Everyone who suffers something thinks it is.

21:32

And I might get an email from a friend of a friend and they're like,

21:35

wow, it was a shock that I went into the cardiologist and they said,

21:39

dude, you need a pacemaker. It's like, it's not a shock anymore.

21:42

And we're now learning this there's great content like, um, on the Ted talk, uh.

21:48

Uh, run for your life, but not too far. And at a slow pace, that's Dr. James O'Keefe.

21:54

And he's a leading researcher in the extreme endurance exercise hypothesis.

22:00

The same thing is playing out in CrossFit.

22:03

And there's all those jokes about, um, you can see the body from across the

22:07

parking lot, and then you can see the scars up close or, you know,

22:11

those jokes like that, where the physique is incredible, but so many injuries and so much attrition.

22:16

So getting away from that and simplifying the objective of being fit or even

22:25

super fit in a minimal amount of time.

22:29

And a guy named Mark Sisson started talking about this in 2005, 2006.

22:34

And it's been nice to see people finally listen to where you can go and with

22:38

a strategic approach, coach, require very little time, devotion,

22:42

and get up to the highest standards for health, longevity, and even peak performance goals.

22:49

So when we start this course, we spend a lot of time out of the gate talking

22:53

about this concept of balancing fitness and health or doing fitness to support health goals.

22:59

Also plug to Dr. Phil Maffetone, who's a leader in the endurance scene for many

23:03

years, bestselling author, and his first book that really captivated me back

23:07

when I was in an extreme hard training, competitive athlete.

23:11

It was called in fitness and in health.

23:13

And he talked about how those are two different things. And that was like a

23:16

mind blower because if you're walking around with a six pack and the ability

23:20

to climb the mountain in 17 minutes, you think you're healthy, but not necessarily.

23:26

So that's our wonderful starting point there.

23:29

And then when you said walk us through it, the other big huge one for everyone is,

23:36

And I'm talking about the sedentary population as well as the extreme fitness

23:41

population, the super fit folks. We all share this incredible obligation to increase all forms of general everyday movement.

23:51

And especially those of us in the fitness category who seem to be packing some

23:57

hall passes in the pocket, giving us free reign to not only sit around for the

24:01

rest of the day because we slam that 6 a.m.

24:04

Spin class, but also to indulge in the celebratory foods of the athletic community.

24:10

And so the reason this is becoming so important, there's so much science behind

24:14

it. We've all seen those headlines sitting in the new smoking.

24:18

There's an actual scientific phenomenon called the active couch potato syndrome,

24:23

which is where those with a very sincere devotion to fitness.

24:28

So let's say they're working out for an hour a day at the gym,

24:31

seven days a week or whatever, hitting that punch card really nicely,

24:36

they nevertheless suffer from similar metabolic risk factors to those who are

24:42

sedentary because that seven hours a week,

24:44

when you transpose it into the 168 hours there in a week, I don't know how many

24:49

there are in Canada, but in America, there's 168 hours in a week.

24:53

That's a small little slice of the pie. So if you're on the subway and and sitting

24:58

at the desk and sitting on the couch for the rest of that time.

25:03

You are causing all kinds of, promoting all kinds of dysfunction and health consequences.

25:09

And for everyone to embrace this idea of just getting out and walking and realizing

25:14

that actually counts as an awesome workout and has so many cardiovascular fitness benefits,

25:21

it goes right in there with those grueling long bicycle rides and the glamorous

25:27

stuff that we tend to fixate on. And so that is chapter two. Maybe we will work our way all the way through the

25:33

course curriculum unless we get on too many awesome asides. But the first one's

25:37

talking about how fitness supports health and longevity.

25:40

And the second one is talking about how to just move more in daily life without

25:44

that pressure of needing to perform or needing to be in a competitive setting.

25:48

Because I know a lot of people are intimidated by walking, setting foot in the

25:52

gym or even hiring a trainer.

25:55

And so, you know, meet the trainer in the park and you guys are going to walk

25:59

two laps and that's going to be the beginning of a wonderful relationship where

26:03

maybe someday day down the road, we'll go over to the bench and do some dips,

26:07

but it doesn't have to be bells and whistles.

26:09

It can just be those, those baby steps forward.

26:12

I love the idea of a fitness coach taking a walk with their client.

26:16

That's actually very cool. Yeah. Big bucks, big bucks in that.

26:21

But you know, just, this is just a personal anecdote when you were sharing that,

26:25

you know, the idea that walking is the foundational exercise.

26:28

I actually, I have articulated that walking is also strength training.

26:33

And my anecdote is that when gyms closed down, I just doubled down on walking.

26:37

When gyms opened back up, I got right back under the barbell and hadn't lost

26:40

strength just by walking, which actually seems counterintuitive,

26:44

but there's a lot of strength in, you know, this bipedal, this very unique bipedal

26:48

thing that we have going on. And, and it is the foundational human movement pattern and we get stronger when we do it.

26:56

Yeah, that's amazing that you didn't lose any strength.

26:59

And I've had several of those revelations in recent years where I haven't been in there in a long time.

27:07

And then I go in and do the workout that approximated what I could do when I

27:11

thought I was in top form. And so then you realize, geez, we don't need to be so consistent as we've been

27:18

told and pounded into our head. Yeah. Well, or it's like your grip on fitness, body composition,

27:24

et cetera, shouldn't be so tenuous, right?

27:27

Where if I go on vacation for a week and now I've, you know, right.

27:30

Like it's, it should, it should linger. It should be the kind of thing you can

27:34

drop into and out of because the human animal is, is a bad-ass and it,

27:38

you know, it shouldn't be this sort of very, very delicate balance between being in or out.

27:45

Yeah. The triathletes, we used to have of the saying it's better to be 10% under-trained

27:49

than 2% over-trained, uh, before a big race.

27:52

And when you think about like the hardest thing that an athlete is striving

27:58

for, like finishing an ultra marathon or finishing an Ironman or climbing that

28:01

mountain peak at the end of the summer that you've been training for diligently for weeks and weeks,

28:07

um, Maffetone made a good point on this where he said, you know,

28:10

the brain doesn't have to be trained to suffer.

28:16

Your brain will do just fine. And for example, to illustrate this concept,

28:20

if I come over there and put a gun to your head right now, we are going to run a marathon.

28:26

I don't care how much training you've missed or made in the last six months,

28:29

you're gonna finish because the brain knows how to suffer and go deep into the

28:33

well to overcome the doubting thoughts and get to the top of the mountain or get to the finish line.

28:42

Secondly, the anaerobic muscle fibers also do not need to be trained to suffer

28:48

or to endure because they are by definition explosive and they work without

28:53

oxygen to perform brief explosive movements.

28:56

Therefore, the template workout for whatever, fill in the blank,

29:01

that lasts for a long time and you're being asked to fire the explosive muscle

29:06

fibers over and over again is not really training more so than it is just break down.

29:12

And so this is where we're getting back to that primal. Hopefully a lot of listeners

29:16

are familiar with that primal blueprint fitness model of doing brief explosive

29:20

work, but it doesn't last that long.

29:23

You go hard and you go home rather than this chronic approach where you're doing

29:27

yet another set and yet another set and yet another set and being told to push

29:32

it for this last sprint on the bike. Our 10th one is going to be, you know, the end.

29:37

And maybe the The fourth one would have been a better ending for many of the people in there.

29:41

So you don't have to train the brain. You don't have to train the anaerobic system.

29:45

And how do you best train the aerobic system? You best train the aerobic system

29:50

at a very slow, comfortable pace, because that's what the aerobic system is, the fat burning.

29:56

And we know about the maximum aerobic function heart rate. That's the maximum

29:59

fat oxidation per minute, approximately 180 minus your age.

30:03

And those unfamiliar with what that pace feels like for almost everyone.

30:07

Is very, very, very comfortable. And back when I was a triathlete at,

30:12

you know, racing at the highest level, I would do a lot of workouts that were 20, 30,

30:17

40, or 50 beats below my maximum aerobic function heart rate,

30:22

which was 155 when I was younger. So I would go and pedal my bicycle on the flat ground at 105 heartbeat for a couple hours.

30:29

And that was a wonderful training session, just like walking would generate

30:33

a heart rate that would be hopefully a couple dozen beats below your maximum aerobic heart rate.

30:37

And so that is literally an excellent training session in so many ways.

30:42

And back to your point, Aaron, the aerobic muscle fibers nourish and oxygenate

30:47

the anaerobic muscle fibers so that the waste products can be removed and they

30:51

can function optimally. So by walking around, you are indeed honing that anaerobic power and that explosiveness

30:58

because you're giving your body the movement, the blood flowing, the oxygen delivery,

31:02

the lymphatic system working to keep you pure and flushed of toxins and so forth.

31:09

So that's why movement is so important. And that's why it indeed will contribute

31:13

to your badass goals of making the regional CrossFit games or whatever it is

31:20

that you think is unrelated to walking.

31:23

Right. Yeah. I mean, this should be the foundational piece for every client

31:27

that you're working with. It's almost as though they need to have homework of what they should be be doing

31:31

outside of working with you, which is finding ways to move more,

31:36

whether it's taking a walk in the morning or taking a walk at night or standing

31:40

more at your desk or taking breaks and walking around.

31:43

Maybe it's parking farther away in the parking lot and forcing yourself to just move more.

31:47

They're like just baseline movement is tremendous.

31:51

And then the next chapter in the course is about just proper human posture.

31:56

I see this in my group classes all the the time, I'm sure you do Aaron too,

31:59

of people that just don't move well, they don't stand right, they don't sit right.

32:05

I kind of should probably say that in air quotes, but you could just tell by

32:09

looking at them that their posture doesn't, it probably feels natural to them,

32:14

but it doesn't look healthy. Do you want to speak to that a little bit about what you mean by these natural sort of human...

32:21

Healthy postures? Well, I think the chapter you're talking about starts out

32:27

with the fundamentals of spinal health, spinal integrity.

32:32

And that's really important because it's pretty easy to get injured when you're

32:36

doing all manner of fitness endeavors, especially if you are a modern citizen

32:41

that spends a lot of time in a sitting position.

32:44

And so we actually go through some intense education

32:47

about how to stand sit lie down

32:50

bend over extend the body correctly

32:53

and there's been so many leaders in this

32:56

world so we're bringing in the greatest content from the the greatest uh leaders

33:01

like dr esther go clay and kelly starrett and so it's really um kind of streamlined

33:08

into this fitness educational course where we're we're picking and choosing

33:13

from people who have spent their life's work doing this. Katie Bowman, I should also mention Nutritious Movement.

33:18

And I just, I'm really happy with how the videos came out because there's a

33:24

lot of written content, but those of us who want to learn in different modalities,

33:28

you can watch these videos and I promise you it'll be life changing.

33:32

Like it was for me when I saw the first presentation of Esther Gokhale at PrimalCon in 2010.

33:38

And of course I was coordinating the event. So I was busy with with my clipboard and my cell phone.

33:43

And I'm like looking in on all these different presentations at the beautiful

33:46

beach park where we had it in Southern California. And this lady captivated me because she's getting everybody to sit in the chair properly.

33:55

Like who knows, you know, what are we doing over here?

33:58

They're just sitting in chairs and they're standing up and they're sitting in

34:00

chairs again and they're standing up. And then she's going around and checking and poking between your shoulder blades

34:04

and pushing on one inch below your belly button.

34:06

And I learned that day how to stand correctly for the first time.

34:13

And I never, not a day has gone by in 12 years where I haven't thought about

34:18

her tips and those checkpoints as I go through my daily life.

34:23

Because like a lot of modern male humans, especially I had that hunched over,

34:29

shoulders forward, neck compressed posture that we see.

34:33

I think commonly, I see it more in males than females. A lot of females have

34:38

excellent posture maybe because they've been reading all the modeling magazines their whole life.

34:42

Oh my gosh, those are all such judgmental, politically inappropriate comments.

34:46

But most dudes out there have horrible posture and a lot of it's driven by the

34:53

things we do in hunched over position.

34:56

Texting, driving, swimming. Yeah.

34:59

Cycling. So we're even, even though we're sporty, we're still building into

35:04

that hunched over posture, uh, bench, bench pressing with poor form.

35:08

So we spend a lot of time jumping chapters forward to like, look,

35:11

pinch your shoulder blades together when you bench press and keep them in that position.

35:14

Oh, let's see what your PR drops down to now when you do it correctly.

35:18

Isn't that great news rather than bad news? Uh, but those, those standing sitting

35:22

fundamentals, uh, for me have been life-changing.

35:25

And just as a quick takeaway, like when you're standing up straight,

35:28

you want your shoulders in line with your spine.

35:31

And one way to kind of checkpoint and get into this position is to rotate your palms outward.

35:37

So your palms are facing forward when you're standing up. And when you gently

35:41

rotate your palms, I'm not talking about pinching your shoulder blades in an exaggerated manner.

35:45

When it's time to take the picture, like you see a lot of people in the family portrait,

35:49

it's just gently rolling those shoulder blades back and down into their safe

35:55

and retracted position and pretty much preserving these fundamentals when you're

36:01

doing all manner of athletic activity.

36:03

So before we talk about how to improve your play at shortstop or on defense

36:09

and basketball, or when you're doing a deadlift, guess what?

36:13

They all have that same common denominator of a straight and elongated spine

36:18

and a, you know, protected trunk and core area.

36:23

And that was really fun to kind of set up the fitness experience with these

36:28

basics that apply when you're reaching for the can of beans on the shelf at the grocery store.

36:34

But of course, none of our clients or market would be doing that.

36:37

But the point is well taken. Health coach radio listeners have i got a treat

36:45

for you to get 72 hour free trial access to primal health coach institute and

36:51

a 50 off coupon code to the how to become a health coach virtual summit featuring

36:57

video interviews with over 30 industry experts visit primalhealthcoach.com forward slash hcr today.

37:06

Music.

37:12

It's interesting because i'm heading to a physical therapy appointment

37:15

after this call and and for the first session we

37:18

worked on setting my shoulder blades and i'd been doing it wrong uh

37:21

for my whole life so that was a little bit of a rude awakening um yeah i i have

37:27

this great trainer in los angeles jeff page and he talks about technical failure

37:30

so everything you're doing in his workout one-on-one is is going to technical

37:35

failure and i have such a competitive competitive mentality.

37:38

And so I'm going to do my 15, uh, 45 degree dumbbell raises.

37:43

And he goes, that's good at 11. I'm like, Hey, he goes, that's good. You're done.

37:47

I'm like, Oh wait, but I'm not tired yet. I can do more.

37:51

And for me, that's also a breakthrough to leave that competitive intensity in

37:56

the proper pocket and go to the,

38:00

uh, especially a strength training session where you're focused on technique

38:03

and doing it right and performing until technical failure and realizing,

38:07

okay, of course, I'm not tired yet.

38:11

But the point here is to execute everything with precise technique.

38:15

And especially jumping ahead, just first, a quick comment, like with running

38:19

and sprinting, which is my, you know, my passion right now.

38:22

There's so much to learn about technique on what seemingly is the most simple

38:26

and not technique oriented sport.

38:29

But we spend a lot of time on that and probably too much time because I insisted on it.

38:33

But you're going to learn all all the technique checkpoints for everything you

38:36

can imagine, even the most simple things that you think are, you know, done deal.

38:41

Yeah. So the next chapter is breathing.

38:45

So just so we're clear, we've come through fitness for health.

38:48

We've come through everyday movement, human posture and movement fundamentals.

38:51

Now we're onto breathing. This was so interesting to me is that the first, you know, four chapters of

38:56

this course, aren't even really about what we typically think of as exercise.

39:00

But we're putting this down in order of importance.

39:04

So give us the little speech on breathing. Why is this making it to the top

39:10

of the list on our chapters? Oh my gosh. I thought nothing of this for my whole life, especially as it relates

39:17

to fitness goals, because it

39:19

seems like we always have plenty of air to breathe when we're performing.

39:23

And then I saw Wim Hof become a sensation and he's doing his breathing stuff.

39:28

And I, I dabbled in that. I tried it a few times and it was fun to see that

39:32

I could hold my breath for longer and then just let it go.

39:35

And I went about my, my busy day and my busy life. Uh, but now what we see is

39:39

this, this amazing avalanche of information,

39:44

research, and explosion in popularity of intentional breathing for all manner

39:50

of fitness and life goals.

39:53

Of course, it's always been there as a centerpiece of yoga and meditation.

39:56

But now I think the average person on the street realizes that being intentional

40:01

about your breathing has all kinds of health benefits.

40:03

You talked about getting into parasympathetic at the start of the show,

40:07

Aaron, and it's like an instant way to access your physiology.

40:11

Dr. Huberman has talked about this on lengthy podcasts that if you're unfamiliar

40:16

with why breathing is so popular, what's the big deal, you can go get a lot of content.

40:20

One of my favorite books I recommend is called The Oxygen Advantage by Patrick McKeown.

40:25

And since we don't don't have an hour to talk about breathing.

40:30

His takeaway, his takeaway quip has been another life changer for me.

40:35

And he says, essentially what this is all about is to strive to breathe as minimally

40:42

as possible through your nose only at all times for the rest of your life.

40:50

And so this notion that we're supposed to take a deep breath when we're stressed

40:54

and take a deep breath, calm down, that's actually the opposite.

40:58

And when you can minimize your breathing, that's when you can access parasympathetic function.

41:04

And when you can get good at minimizing breathing during fitness activity,

41:09

this is a centerpiece of chemistry and biology, the Bohr effect, B-O-H-R.

41:14

So it's not like someone's new theory and try this at your next workout.

41:17

Out, this is what a science student will be nodding their head going,

41:20

oh yeah, the Bohr effect. And the Bohr effect implies that when you can breathe minimally and build up

41:29

more carbon dioxide, because you're not sucking in a ton of oxygen with this

41:32

heavy breathing that we're inclined to do,

41:34

especially when we're in sympathetic nervous system dominance,

41:37

when you can breathe minimally, you build up your tolerance for carbon dioxide in the bloodstream.

41:43

And when you build up your tolerance, when you have an increased tolerance for

41:47

carbon dioxide in the bloodstream, you deliver more oxygen to the working muscles

41:53

and tissues that need it. So the minimal, the more minimal you're breathing, the more oxygen delivery to muscles and tissues.

42:01

It seems kind of backwards, like when we're sucking in air and thinking that's

42:04

going to help us get more air to perform better.

42:07

It's actually, we need to breathe as much as we need to breathe so we don't pass out.

42:12

So when I provide that quote, breathe as minimally as possible through your

42:16

nose only at all times for the rest of your life, as minimally as possible during

42:20

my sprint workout, when I'm finished with the sprint, I'm sucking air like nobody's business.

42:25

I demonstrate on the videos how I finish a sprint.

42:29

I'm breathing, breathing, breathing like an athlete who just finished a sprint is breathing.

42:32

And then as quickly as I can, and I'm doing these hand gestures while the cameraman's

42:37

filming me as quickly as I can, I'm taking it down, down, down, down.

42:42

Then I draw my finger across my lips and I close my mouth and I lock down and

42:47

I start breathing aggressively through my nose, of course.

42:50

And then I take that down. I take that down. I take that down.

42:53

And then I'm back to minimal nose breathing 27 seconds after a high intensity sprint workout.

42:59

And it's been nice to see how the skill is building up over time by practicing it.

43:04

This also minimizes the stress impact of the workout because you're turning

43:08

on that parasympathetic when you're minimizing your breathing.

43:11

And so it works at the office when you're trying not to get too stressed and

43:16

it works during fitness activities. And so there's going to be exercises provided, video instruction.

43:23

We do give a nod to some of the advanced breeding techniques that people are

43:28

hearing about, such as the amazing exploits of Wim Hof.

43:31

And the book called The Wedge by Scott Carney was really amazing.

43:36

Two books, The Wedge and What Doesn't Kill Us is the title of the other book. And he...

43:41

Week to perform these extreme feats of cold exposure and endurance through the

43:47

breathing techniques that are popularized by Wim Hof.

43:50

One of them was they took a group of 27 various levels of experience in mountaineering

43:57

and Wim Hof's group climbed Mount Kilimanjaro in just over 24 hours,

44:02

which destroyed the previous record for ascent because people have to acclimate.

44:06

It's It's 19,000 feet at the top, but by going through these breathing exercises,

44:10

uh, before, during, and during the hike, they just marched up the mountain.

44:14

Even average people like the author of the books, he's, he wasn't,

44:17

you know, he's, I mean, he's an everyday guy, pretty fit, uh,

44:20

but he broke through all, he transcended these previous, previously believed

44:24

fitness limitations specifically through breathing exercises.

44:28

So that's why it deserves a whole chapter in the course.

44:32

The whole chapter. And it differentiates the program. one of the things,

44:35

the many things that differentiates this course from so many that are out there.

44:40

Yeah. And if you want to skip it, if you're, if it bores you,

44:44

if the subject bores you, let me just say this, breathe as minimally as possible

44:50

through your nose only at all times for the rest of your life.

44:56

Yes. Love it. So then we get into exercise.

45:00

And so I think what we'll do is we'll, we'll just kind of cluster the movement

45:03

specific chapters and just kind of quickly hustle through them.

45:07

Um, so the, the, the first thing we start with, because we do get into strength

45:11

training, cardiovascular, respiratory endurance, um, you know,

45:16

resistance exercise, like dead lifting and squatting free weights.

45:18

We get into, you know, straight up training, but our first movement chapter

45:22

is our first movement chapters are in stretching mobility, flexibility,

45:27

balance, and injury prevention. So we start with that. We start with that. We didn't put that as an afterthought,

45:32

like, okay, after you crush yourself and then, you know, take care of yourself,

45:36

we put the recovery piece on the front burner.

45:39

So speak to that. I mean, you have spoken to that a little bit.

45:42

This is, this is in the spirit of extracting ourselves from the suffer and struggle.

45:47

But I think the thing I'm excited about with this course is that we are prioritizing,

45:52

recovery over, over crushing, like recovery comes first crushing,

45:58

you know, we don't really talk about crushing, but so maybe the word crushing

46:03

appears in the text a few times just for fun, just to keep people excited.

46:07

Uh, yeah. What's interesting. I'm thinking on that note, the way you just described that beautifully,

46:13

uh, let me give you a window into the lifestyle and the training habits of elite

46:18

athletes in every sport, the Olympians, the great sprinters.

46:23

I'm fascinated watching Elaine Thompson, the fastest female, probably of all time.

46:27

Heading into the world championships, which I'm going to attend,

46:31

the world track and field championships for the first time in America,

46:34

watching these amazing NBA basketball players, the cyclists that compete in the Tour de France.

46:41

And we have this romanticized notion that these These people are superhuman

46:45

machines, and they crush it every day in training.

46:49

But what's amazing is how they

46:52

universally perform well within their capabilities on a day-to-day basis.

46:58

So that term of crushing a workout, for them, it's just routine,

47:02

everyday, going to work, business as usual.

47:05

Maybe the best example, and I think we actually, I forget what chapter,

47:09

but I talk about Usain Bolt and Ilya Kipchoge.

47:13

Kipchoge is the greatest marathon runner of all times. One of the greatest,

47:17

maybe the greatest endurance athlete, uh, that's ever walked on earth.

47:20

And he's the guy who ran a one 59, uh, for the marathon run.

47:25

And Usain Bolt, of course, most people know that he's the greatest sprinter

47:28

of all time. Um, and Kipchoge's training is, it's a sensational,

47:33

uh, performance week in, week out.

47:37

He works very, very hard at high altitude.

47:40

His easy day is an 18 mile run at six minute pace at high altitude.

47:45

And so that'll bug your eyes out. If you have any reference to what,

47:49

what running fast means, however, um, that's a minute and a half slower than

47:54

his marathon world record pace. So he's literally jogging at six minute pace per mile that has no reference

48:01

to you or I or anyone else, a casual enthusiast.

48:04

But what it shows is that these workouts are very impressive and minimally stressful

48:11

to him and his buildup over years and decades and have the amazing genetic gifts,

48:16

which we should also realize those people on top,

48:19

they might be better at recovering than you, all other things being equal.

48:23

So don't try to model everything they're doing. And then on the Usain Bolt side, if you watch his beautiful biography on Netflix

48:31

and several books about him, he was universally characterized as quote unquote, lazy in training.

48:38

Um, a party guy who liked to go out to the clubs and have fun.

48:41

And he was always loosey goosey and goofy. You saw him with the camera on him

48:45

right before they get into the starting blocks for the Olympic final.

48:48

And he's doing all his gestures and his pot, you know, his posturing and all that.

48:52

And, um, that was his true personality coming to life where he was in an ideal

48:58

peak performance state because he wasn't all tightly wound and stuck on himself.

49:01

And when he was feeling lazy in training, we all have to sit back and take a

49:06

shallow breath and say, wait a second, this is the greatest sprinter of all time who peaked on demand like no other

49:13

athlete to win again and again in the Olympics and the world championships.

49:17

And so if he was feeling lazy or wanting to take some extra time in the off

49:22

season to go to the clubs and loosen up and hang out,

49:24

maybe he represents the highest level of sophistication of athletic training

49:29

rather than the, remember the old Rocky Rocky IV, where it was Rocky against Drago,

49:35

the Soviet creation where he was in the laboratory and everything was totally

49:40

idealized where every workout was measured and his blood was sampled.

49:43

It's like, no, no, no, that's a movie.

49:45

And here's the very best guy who likes to go to the beach and go to the clubs

49:49

and then break world records.

49:52

And so maybe we can all relax a little bit and realize that listening to those

49:56

voices, especially perhaps sometimes the lazy voice when we're We're talking

50:00

about a highly motivated population.

50:03

Maybe that's something to really honor and listen to and dial every dial back

50:08

one or two notches. And guess who's listening really closely to this?

50:12

Brad Kearns right now, because I still struggle today with my wonderful enthusiasm

50:17

and competitive intensity. I go out there, I do a workout. I know what I'm doing.

50:22

I know about the right timing and the right warmups and all that.

50:26

I feel great while I'm at it.

50:28

And then the next 48 to 72 hours, I get these awakenings like,

50:33

dude, you're in the 55 plus age division.

50:36

You're not in the Olympic, you're not in the Olympic talent pool.

50:40

What the hell was I thinking? And I get this message with tight calves,

50:44

my heels burning up again, my right glute is locked up again,

50:49

which is an indication that guess what?

50:51

I overdid it. I exceeded my capabilities.

50:54

And I made essentially what amounts to a mistake through this devoted,

50:59

awesome workout that I got smiley face into to my training log because I wasn't

51:04

properly and most intuitively accepting that I need to tone down that competitive

51:09

intensity at times. Yeah. I mean, I think like mobility, stretching, flexibility, and every course I've taken gets like a nod.

51:19

And oh, by the way, this is something Aaron mentioned, like it's like an afterthought.

51:23

I love the fact that we put this first. It's almost as though you need to truly

51:27

be mobile and flexible to do any real movement well. You know,

51:31

and to do it safely and to get the benefit of the whole reason you're doing this in the first place.

51:37

And I do think there are far more trainers that are not well versed and how

51:41

to use a foam roller properly, how to properly stretch a hip flexor.

51:46

And I don't know how many people have come up to me and they're like,

51:49

I have this thing right here. And they're pointing to essentially like that groin area, those little tendons

51:53

that are between their legs. Most trainers don't know how to help people,

51:58

first of all, keep them from pulling it in the first place.

52:01

Right. And then then teaching them how to kind of, I guess, I guess,

52:07

nurture it a little bit after that workout and understanding what some of the

52:10

movements that they're putting people through, what these little muscles and tendons are going through and how to help them

52:16

from the standpoint of not only mobility before you start your workout,

52:18

but afterwards and in the days in between. queen.

52:21

So I just think it being a foundational chapter in the beginning to make sure

52:26

anyone taking this course understands the role it plays and how important it is, is super smart,

52:32

you know, rather than having people burn through it, because the rest of this

52:34

stuff, like, there's something in here for literally everybody,

52:39

you know, chapter six gets into cardio, fitness and endurance.

52:43

We get into substrate utilization and exercise intensities, aerobic function

52:49

and foundation, and the difference between that versus cardio,

52:53

monitoring your heart rate, all of this stuff is built in there.

52:56

We get into the benefits of high intensity exercise, because I know this is

53:01

high intensity exercise is a favorite of a lot of people, whether it's the F45s,

53:06

the CrossFit folks, the Orange Theory folks, that high intensity training.

53:11

And we talk about that and the benefit of it. I just think for many people, it's abused.

53:17

It's misused. Yeah, it's easy to overdo it. Tons of benefits and a higher risk factor too.

53:24

And just for a simple, memorable takeaway, if you just shorten everything and

53:30

turn all the dials down, you're going to get wonderful fitness stimulation with minimal risk.

53:34

I'm thinking of one of my heroes, the great high jumper, Mutaz Esabarshim of Qatar.

53:39

He's the number two high jumper of all time. He jumped 7'11 and three quarters,

53:44

which is the height of a typical ceiling in a typical home.

53:48

And he just had an interview as we're building up to the World Championships.

53:53

He won the gold medal last year in the Olympics, tied for the gold medal.

53:56

Wonderful story with the Italian Gianmarco Tambari.

53:59

But he said, right now, my main goal in training is to not get injured.

54:05

Oh, what a soundbite. I mean, he wasn't joking. It wasn't a throwaway line.

54:10

That's his number one goal. And his number two goal is to win the gold medal. His number two goal,

54:14

number three goal is to break the world record. Number four goal, whatever, whatever.

54:18

But like, just as you were reading down the chapters, Laura, it's like, guess what?

54:22

Hold on. Let me do a quick review here. I'm going to pull it up.

54:25

Doesn't matter if you're injured. This chapter, no, it doesn't matter if you're

54:29

injured. This chapter, no, it doesn't matter. This chapter, no. Oh, sprinting, no, it doesn't matter if you're injured.

54:34

So you can skip a whole bunch of crap here if you're injured,

54:37

or you can go through the course in the order that it's presented.

54:42

That was great. I was thinking that too, because I'm battling an injury right

54:46

now that came from doing stupid shit in the gym.

54:48

And it's like, now I can't do anything. I can't do anything because I was hot

54:53

dogging at one time for what I don't know.

54:56

I hope we got it on video for your sensational Instagram account.

55:00

I hope at least if you're going to get injured, go out swinging.

55:04

Yeah. Like the parkour guy, Dom tomato on Instagram.

55:06

You ever seen him? He jumps off the cement staircase and lands on a wall,

55:12

pushes off, does a backflip, you know, and like this crazy stuff and it's all

55:17

captured on video. But man, what a, what a price to pay.

55:20

The risk of getting a viral videos is pretty gnarly. Yeah. I'm not about that.

55:25

Yeah. So really good. So then we kind of close out the course with mindset,

55:28

peak performance, overreaching, overtraining, and burnout.

55:31

I'm addicted to the fact that we have a chapter on this.

55:34

And rest, recovery, sleep, and downtime. And that's kind of from a programming

55:40

perspective where the fitness, our fitness, primal fitness course kind of winds down.

55:46

I know you did speak to overreaching. You spoke to this suffer culture,

55:51

but maybe just as a sort of parting thought, what is overreaching versus overtraining?

55:57

Is there a difference between those two? There is. How would you describe the

56:00

difference between those two things? Yeah. I mean, I think that's a new term that someone came up with and it's appropriate

56:09

to distinguish a little bit, but I generally would love to avoid either of those, both of those.

56:16

And so overreaching is this temporary state of excess fight or flight stimulation,

56:22

where actually in many cases, you can feel awesome.

56:26

Them. And I went through this so many times in my athletic career where I would

56:30

get into these training cycles, as they call them, where we go to the mountains

56:35

at high altitude and slam it for six weeks.

56:38

And we feel great every day because of the fresh air and the competitive setting

56:42

and leaving your responsibilities and the logistics of your everyday life behind.

56:46

And you're at training camp and you're crushing it and you wake up the next

56:49

day and guess what? You're not sore. You're you're alert, you're energized early in the morning, and we go out and

56:55

do another one and the next day and the next day. And what happens when you push yourself to a high level of ask in your performance goals,

57:04

you start to stimulate the fight or flight response to keep up and the body

57:09

does a wonderful job allowing you to perform at your peak over and over until

57:16

it finally becomes exhausted. And I think you can draw an exact analogy physiologically to you had a family crisis and.

57:24

You're going to the hospital on vigil for 27 days in a row.

57:28

You're taking turns with the other loved ones and you're going to take the night

57:31

shift next time because the other person deserves a break.

57:35

And you wake up in the morning, your hands are a little shaky. You're not hungry.

57:41

Someone's forcing you to take an apple with you so you'll have something to

57:44

eat and you forget to eat it. And you're just going on fumes for hours and hours. How about going through

57:51

a painful breakup or a crisis with a child?

57:54

You know, these areas of life where we're just in crisis mode and we're burning fumes.

58:00

However, if you were to ask, are you tired? No, I'm not tired.

58:04

I don't need a nap. I'm going to stay here. I'm going to carry on.

58:07

I'm going to push through. And that's a crisis, but it's the same physiologically as an elevated training

58:14

binge or competitive binge or whatever you want to call it.

58:18

And it's so common and because it's pleasurable

58:21

enjoyable rather than a crisis at the hospital or breakup

58:24

or a tough time with kids um you're just going with the flow baby it's like

58:29

yeah i'm getting in better shape now i just rode 80 yesterday and today we did

58:32

67 and i felt great and i dropped everybody on the last climb and there are

58:36

warning signs of impending doom and that's what overreaching is all about um

58:41

and in doing the research for this section it's really

58:44

fascinating because it's very likely that every single world record in the endurance

58:49

sports, especially was set by someone in a state of overreaching in an unhealthy,

58:55

uh, hormonal state with, with excess fight or flight hormones bathing in their bloodstream.

59:01

Um, I call it the cortisol showerhead in the book, primal endurance,

59:04

where you're just spraying cortisol every day, going out there and knocking

59:08

out more impressive workouts. So, um, if you can kind of head things off at the pass and shut things down

59:15

because you intuitively realize that you're pushing beyond your previously known capabilities.

59:21

That's when you become a really smart and highly attuned athlete rather than

59:26

just a competitive beast who can go out there and call upon the fumes to get

59:35

stuff done that should never get done. Overtraining, you can go take the course and will tell you all about.

59:41

And I do have to say with great pride that I believe this chapter of this course,

59:47

has the most exhaustive and specific and precise set of symptoms for both overreaching

59:54

and overtraining that I've ever seen.

59:57

And it required compiling data from the great leaders and articles and studies.

1:00:01

And it is a definite highlight of the course. And if you can kind of commit

1:00:06

all that stuff to memory, and we have different categories.

1:00:09

So we have like these digestive symptoms, we have cognitive symptoms,

1:00:12

we have mood, behavior, emotional symptoms, and of course the physical symptoms.

1:00:16

You can't lift as much weight when you're at the gym. Duh, you're overtrained.

1:00:20

But there's so many nuances that are important to understand.

1:00:23

And it's a beautiful experience to go through that. And there's really no turning

1:00:27

back because once you understand, especially what overreaching is all about,

1:00:31

and that's why I mentioned the family crisis, we can all nod our head and go,

1:00:34

yeah, I recall, I recall. Yeah, I didn't sleep much. I was sleeping five hours a night and I got up every

1:00:39

morning, bright, bushy-tailed as a bunny to go and suffer, suffer again.

1:00:43

Again and um boy to get through life we're going to be facing those kind of

1:00:46

things but please don't do it with your fitness programming otherwise boy um

1:00:51

you know you're missing out yeah well and i see it all the time in my gym and

1:00:55

it's people that have like you know what coach laura i've plateaued.

1:00:58

I can't i can't lift anymore you know what should i be doing how should i be

1:01:03

training to get stronger i'm like take three days off you need to rest the benefit

1:01:09

of any training comes in the recovery recovery process.

1:01:12

And if we don't actively coach people through how to recover properly,

1:01:17

then all the training we're going to give you around endurance training or aerobic

1:01:21

training, all the training we're going to give you around resistance training,

1:01:24

because that's in there, all the education we're going to give you around sprinting and jumping,

1:01:28

all that stuff is useless if the body doesn't have the ability to recover and

1:01:32

come back stronger, faster, better. So this needs to all be interwoven. And I think that's what you've done a phenomenal job with in here.

1:01:41

We've taught the person taking this course, you're teaching them how to be a

1:01:45

great trainer and how to use these different modalities, these different types

1:01:48

of exercise to achieve the ultimate goal that the client might be looking for,

1:01:52

which is going to be different from person to person. But you've interwoven this with all the other little aspects of their lifestyle

1:01:58

and the ability for their body to actually gain what it needs to gain from the actual activity.

1:02:05

It's a big missing link in a lot of the other programs out there.

1:02:08

And I think people taking this are going to find themselves pretty well-rounded.

1:02:13

Well said. And I'm thinking of that athlete, which is so common,

1:02:17

so familiar, that mindset, that personality that doesn't want to back off.

1:02:21

And the secret here is we're not telling you to go sit on the couch and eat Ben and Jerry's.

1:02:26

The secret is to just, if you turn those dials down and formulate this ability

1:02:31

to go into the gym and do a 70% session, or for me, it's going to the track.

1:02:36

When I get to the track, when I get to the facility of the rubber track that

1:02:41

goes around in a circle, I am lit up because I don't go there very frequently.

1:02:45

And when I go there, I'm going to get work done and it's time to rock the,

1:02:48

the heavy metal tunes or the, you know, the, the, the major M&Ms coming out

1:02:54

to play because this is time to get down to business.

1:02:57

And I finally realized I need to get to that track and have a 70% day.

1:03:01

And that will, that's what will support my development of those days where it

1:03:05

is time to open up the throttle a little bit more.

1:03:08

And when you throw out these numbers without the context, like,

1:03:11

yeah, 70%, I lift at 70% of my one rep max, or I do 200 meter repeats at 70% of my best time.

1:03:20

It's ridiculously slow to the extent that any competitive type is gonna have

1:03:24

to go, what, are you serious? You want me to do bicep curls with 10 pounds? What, excuse me, what for?

1:03:30

And compare yourself right there in that quick example to the greatest athletes

1:03:36

on the planet who are going to watch in the Olympics and in the pros,

1:03:39

they are doing exactly that.

1:03:41

They are performing well below their maximum capability.

1:03:44

However, it looks way more impressive than you doing bicep curls with 10 pounds.

1:03:49

It's just exact, exact same context and training approach.

1:03:53

Yeah. I love that. The analogy of the athletes is really just interesting and incredible.

1:03:59

And I don't know, Brad, I think you've, you've really knocked it out of the

1:04:02

park with this curriculum and we really appreciate you running us through it

1:04:05

with, uh, you know, your unique flair and dynamism. You guys bring it out.

1:04:11

You bring out the best in me. We rock it every time. If the stories in the context, I think are what help

1:04:17

bring it alive, particularly if people listening are trainers or people who

1:04:21

have been in the fitness realm, they know what we're talking about because they've

1:04:25

seen it themselves. And, um, So, you know, I think what you've built here is something fantastic for someone

1:04:31

who wants to enter the fitness world. I think it's fantastic for people that are already there and want to just take

1:04:38

a course that's developed from a different point of view, you know?

1:04:44

But I also see it as people that work with high level athletes that need to

1:04:50

teach these athletes just how to move for the sake of moving rather than always

1:04:54

training for their sport. And that I think gets missing when we see people that have been competitive for decades.

1:05:02

Oh my gosh, look at all the injuries in the major sports.

1:05:06

They've never been trained because they're too much of a superstar from day one.

1:05:10

They were thrown right into the swimming pool to swim laps. They can't run three

1:05:15

miles without their knees aching, but who cares?

1:05:17

I mean, so yeah, it extends across all levels from novice to elite.

1:05:22

Yeah, I love it. It's cool. And we're going to teach people how to coach.

1:05:25

So it's the emergence of the fitness coach.

1:05:28

We are sticking our flag in the ground.

1:05:32

We're doing it. And we really appreciate, Brad, you developing this curriculum

1:05:35

for us and for sharing your wisdom with us on this chat.

1:05:40

What a great show. I'm excited to participate in the program now that it's done.

1:05:43

I'm going to go back as a student and learn everything.

1:05:46

Oh my gosh, it's going to be fun. And don't forget chapter 15,

1:05:49

how to get that body down to your ideal body composition. It's such a prominent goal.

1:05:55

I remember one podcast guest I had, William Shufeld, who's a six-pack wielding

1:06:02

fitness machine himself. He's on the cover of our book, Carnivore Cooking for Cool Dudes.

1:06:07

And he said, you know, everybody tries to downplay like, well,

1:06:12

I want to, you know, I want to feel good and be energetic because people want to look hot.

1:06:16

That's just, you know, everyone kind of, you know, tries to gloss over that.

1:06:22

But we tried to address it in the last chapter to say, look,

1:06:24

if you're doing everything right and you want to drop that final 5,

1:06:28

10, 15, 20 pounds of excess body fat, let's give you a proper strategy here

1:06:32

and just hit this thing head on rather than trying to dance around it.

1:06:36

We know you're itching for you're at the community center itching

1:06:39

for a workout i'm assuming so we will a very low

1:06:42

level turning those dials down yes don't be don't be shy put those put those

1:06:49

plates on the lowest pin and check your ego at the door yeah that's right cool

1:06:54

thank you so much brad this was great we will uh we look forward to training

1:06:58

some primal fitness coaches which is under your tutelage. Awesome. Thanks for listening. This podcast was brought to you by Primal Health Coach Institute.

1:07:08

To learn more about how to become a successful health coach,

1:07:10

get in touch with us by visiting primalhealthcoach.com forward slash call.

1:07:15

Or if you're already a successful health coach, practitioner,

1:07:18

influencer, or thought leader with a thriving business and an interesting story,

1:07:22

we'd love to hear from you. Connect with us at hello at primalhealthcoach.com and let us know why we need

1:07:28

to interview you for Health Coach Radio. Thanks for listening.