0:09

welcome to hello therapy , a podcast

0:11

to help you take charge of your mental health

0:13

through evidence-based psychological

0:16

tips and tools straight

0:18

from the therapy room , so that you

0:20

can live life better . What

0:29

helps your mental health ? My

0:31

next guest , sam Ferreira , asked

0:33

this question of her Instagram followers

0:35

and got some really interesting answers

0:37

. So in this episode , we

0:40

discuss how these nuggets of advice

0:42

can be turned into practical , actionable

0:45

tips for your mental health . Sam

0:47

is a psychologist based in Australia

0:49

with a notable career as an army

0:51

psychologist in the Australian Defence Force

0:53

. Sam provides brilliant educational

0:56

videos on mental health on her social

0:58

media and soon she is launching

1:00

a mental health app called Psych Insights

1:03

that will offer personal , personalized self-help

1:05

resources . Now in this episode

1:07

, we do touch on themes around mental health

1:09

crises and suicidal thoughts

1:11

and ideation . So if you

1:13

are struggling with this right now and

1:16

you think that hearing a conversation around

1:18

that won't be helpful for you , do

1:20

look after yourself and just come back to

1:22

the episode some other time . So

1:24

let's dive in . So

1:28

, sam , thank you so much for joining

1:30

me on the Hello Therapy podcast today

1:32

. Thank you for having me . Do

1:34

you want to say a little bit about who

1:36

you are and what you do ?

1:38

Yeah , of course . So I'm Sam . I'm

1:41

a psychologist based in Canberra , australia

1:43

, so very different time zone

1:45

to yourself , as we've just discussed and

1:48

I'm currently self-employed . But I've spent

1:50

most of my psychology career as an army

1:52

psychologist . So that was a very

1:54

diverse , interesting role where I got to

1:56

experience a lot of different types of psychology

1:59

. So I did a lot of clinical work with

2:01

clients and also a lot of organizational

2:03

work , so like suitability assessments and

2:05

things like that . And I've recently

2:08

discharged , as of a few months ago

2:10

, to take a bit of a leap of faith and do my

2:12

own thing . So I'm launching an

2:14

app in a few weeks which I'm really excited about

2:16

. It's all about personalized mental health

2:18

support , which I think will be really helpful

2:20

for people . I've been posting educational

2:23

content on social media and just kind of

2:25

taking a bit of a leap of faith and seeing

2:27

where that takes me .

2:28

Brilliant , yeah , and you have such a big following

2:30

on Instagram . Are you on TikTok as well

2:32

, or is it just Instagram ?

2:34

Mostly Instagram . I'm on TikTok very intermittently

2:37

and occasionally , but not really Instagram's kind

2:39

of my thing that I've prioritised .

2:41

So exciting that you're launching an

2:43

app , because I think it's really needed

2:45

, isn't it ? There's so many different

2:47

bits and pieces around self-help

2:49

and there's so much out there now , but

2:51

having it all condensed into one app

2:54

, I imagine that's going to be so helpful

2:56

.

2:56

Yeah , I hope so Everyone . There's a lot

2:58

of people that are very overwhelmed by all the self-help

3:01

resources . There's just so much out there . Some

3:03

of it's a little bit contradictory and people don't

3:05

really know where to start sometimes . So I

3:07

think having it personalized to your profile

3:09

and what you're about and what you want to work

3:12

on , I think that gives people a clear kind

3:14

of starting point as opposed to being overwhelmed by

3:16

the magnitude of resources out there .

3:18

Yeah , absolutely . And when does it launch

3:21

?

3:22

So in a few weeks . So the exact date is to

3:24

be confirmed because we're awaiting any

3:26

technical difficulties on the app store and things like that

3:28

, but in a few weeks it will be out

3:30

, so very exciting . It's been a year in the making

3:32

, so we'll see how that all goes .

3:34

Yeah , I bet it's been a lot of work

3:37

. Is it similar to the videos that you do

3:39

on social media or how

3:41

is it kind of set ?

3:43

up . So there's a lot of different resources like

3:45

there's videos , there's audios , there's interactive

3:47

activities , there's articles

3:50

, there's

3:55

podcasts and book recommendations . There's so much stuff and basically the user goes through

3:57

these screens at the start and gets a psychological profile that tracks their

3:59

like motivation , sleep , stress

4:01

, anxiety , depression , a bunch of different things

4:03

and then they get matched to resources

4:05

that match their profile . So

4:07

that's essentially how it worked . It's a little bit

4:09

complicated and it started as a little

4:12

thing and then just grew into this monstrous

4:14

complexity . It's been

4:16

a lot of work . It's mostly been me and one

4:18

tech guy doing this entire project , but

4:21

we finally come to the end of the process and we're really

4:23

proud of what we've come up with .

4:29

So it's been really cool , yeah , and a huge achievement , because you say that's that is so much work

4:31

and pulling everything together and just making

4:33

sure that people can get the

4:35

get the right support and kind of tailoring

4:37

it to each person who uses the

4:39

app . I think that's a great idea .

4:41

Yeah , yeah , thank you , and hoping to

4:43

make it user-friendly as possible . It's a little bit of a

4:45

complex idea , so that's kind of been the sticking

4:47

point now just making sure that people understand

4:49

where to go and it's easy to navigate . But hopefully

4:51

we've sorted that out . We've got friends and family

4:53

testing it now and they've all approved , so

4:56

that's a good sign .

5:19

So we'll see how it goes . Great . Well , we thought

5:21

today that we would take some of those

5:23

responses and discuss

5:26

around it and just sort of have

5:28

a think about what that piece of advice

5:30

is and maybe link it to theory

5:32

and practice and things like that . So

5:35

shall we dive in ? Yeah

5:37

, let's do it . Yeah , sounds great , Okay . So

5:39

some of the things that I pulled out . The first one

5:41

was don't believe everything

5:43

you think that

5:46

I pulled out .

5:46

The first one was don't believe everything you think . Thoughts are just thoughts

5:48

. That's a big one that I emphasize on social media . I think a

5:50

crucial first step in managing distressing

5:53

thoughts is to acknowledge that thoughts are just thoughts

5:55

and they're not necessarily facts . Thoughts

5:57

can feel very real a lot of the time , but

5:59

that doesn't mean that they are real and

6:02

I think that the more that we buy into thoughts , the more

6:04

that they become like this and they just dominate

6:06

. You know our emotions , how we feel , how we respond

6:08

.

6:09

So acknowledging I'm having a thought that's not

6:11

necessarily a fact can help bring the thoughts

6:13

from here to here and just create some

6:15

space and some distance yeah

6:18

, and I , I mean , I pretty much talk about

6:20

this idea every day

6:22

with my , with my therapy clients

6:24

and it's a great idea from

6:27

acceptance and commitment , therapy , isn't it ? Or act

6:29

for short , this idea of how

6:31

we get so fused as you say

6:33

you were putting your hands up there to your face like we

6:35

get so caught up in

6:37

our thoughts , particularly distressing

6:40

, difficult , anxious

6:42

, negative thoughts . Those tend to be

6:45

the ones that we really do get what

6:47

we call fused with so that

6:49

we believe them 100%

6:52

and actually , when that happens

6:54

, we end up becoming so

6:57

kind of rigid in our thinking

6:59

that we get dictated to by these

7:01

thoughts , don't we ?

7:03

Yeah , absolutely yeah . A really good exercise

7:05

that I like is just to add I'm having the thought

7:07

before the thought itself . So if you're having

7:09

a thought like I'm a failure , just make that I'm

7:11

having the thought that I'm a failure , and

7:13

just little linguistic things like that can make a massive

7:15

difference to how you interpret the thought and just allow

7:17

you to take a step back and regain a sense of control

7:20

.

7:21

Absolutely . And , as you say , those

7:27

really simple strategies , tricks , tips can make a big difference , because that one there again

7:29

, that's something that I talk about a lot . What

7:32

it does is it just takes the

7:34

sting , it takes the power out of

7:36

the thought . So if you're having the thought I'm

7:38

useless , for example , then if

7:40

you say , instead

7:42

, I'm having the thought that

7:44

I'm useless , it doesn't quite

7:46

have the same kind of punch to it yeah

7:49

, and it's not necessarily like an objective truth .

7:51

It's , you know , a thought and it may be true

7:53

, it may not be true , but it just kind of takes the absolute

7:55

truth out of it .

7:56

Yeah yeah , and one

7:59

of my favorite exercises mindfulness

8:01

type exercises to do with clients that

8:03

I advise clients to try and practice

8:06

is leaves on a stream , and I know that you've

8:08

also talked about that in your videos , haven't

8:10

you ?

8:10

Yeah , that's one of my favorite ones . I love visualization

8:13

techniques . I'm a very visual person , so

8:15

I think that's really powerful to envision

8:17

putting on a leaf and watching it float down a

8:19

stream or as a cloud , you know , floating

8:21

through the sky or a car driving away . Just

8:23

actually seeing your thought , like physically

8:25

leaving you , can be very powerful .

8:28

Yeah , and something that I talk to my clients

8:30

about is if they've got a particularly

8:32

kind of sticky thought , is to

8:34

try and imagine writing it on

8:36

a helium balloon and then visualize

8:39

yourself letting go of the balloon , just watch

8:41

it float in the sky , because , as as you

8:43

say , visualizing your

8:45

thoughts can be really helpful

8:48

and helps you take that kind of step back

8:50

from it , doesn't it ?

8:51

yeah , absolutely . Yet another one , writing it

8:53

on a piece of paper and then throwing the piece of paper away

8:55

, like there's all these little things like that that I've

8:58

learned about an act and they're so powerful where you

9:00

can actually see a visual representation of your thought

9:02

actually leaving you .

9:03

So it's good stuff and even

9:05

just writing your thoughts down . I think that's why

9:07

journaling can be so powerful

9:09

. It's like the actually seeing your

9:12

thoughts on paper . I think when

9:14

you write on paper it's more powerful .

9:15

You can see that they are language

9:18

and therefore just words

9:20

and sentences yeah

9:22

, externalizing your thoughts is really powerful , even

9:24

speaking them out loud as well , and hearing it is

9:27

language . I think that's really powerful

9:29

. To take the chaos out of your mind and actually see

9:31

it as tangible words on a page that

9:34

can do a lot of good .

9:35

Yeah , so okay

9:37

. The next one , then , is

9:39

your diagnosis is

9:42

not your identity

9:44

, so what do you make of this one ?

9:46

I think diagnoses are a bit of a double-edged sword

9:49

in that I think on the one end , it can provide

9:51

a lot of clarity for people and explain their symptoms

9:53

and help with treatment and navigating things Like

9:56

, for example , I was diagnosed with ADHD last

9:58

year and that was actually really helpful to make sense

10:00

of what was going on for me helpful

10:04

to make sense of what was going on for me . But on the other side of things , I think it can really quickly

10:06

rule limiting beliefs such as I'm depressed so I'm never

10:08

going to achieve this , or I'm really anxious

10:10

so I'm never going to be a good public speaker , or whatever . It

10:12

might be that when we become too fused

10:15

to the diagnosis and it becomes our identity

10:17

, it can really keep us stuck where we don't think that we

10:19

can change . We're just kind of stuck in that pattern

10:21

.

10:33

And I come across this in my work , particularly when I'm working with

10:35

individuals who have diagnosis of depression or particularly bipolar disorder

10:37

. That seems to be quite a difficult diagnosis to be diagnosed with because there's

10:39

so much stigma and therefore

10:41

shame that can come along with it .

10:43

It's interesting that different conditions have can come along with it . It's interesting that different conditions have

10:45

different stigma associated with it , Like

10:47

with ADHD . It's actually interesting . People

10:49

are actually quite proud of their ADHD online

10:52

and kind of promoting it , as I'm really creative , like

10:54

look at me whereas some have a

10:56

lot of stigma associated with them . So it's really interesting

10:58

how they're all quite different .

10:59

Yeah , and I think you can go through a bit

11:01

of a process , can't you , if you are

11:03

diagnosed with some kind of psychiatric

11:06

diagnosis . In that , I think there can be a

11:08

bit of shock in the beginning . Particularly

11:10

, I think , what I'm holding in mind , there is

11:13

individuals I've worked with with bipolar

11:15

and sort of coming to terms

11:17

with the fact that there is this

11:19

sort of label in their lives and what that then

11:21

means for them , and certainly

11:23

with ADHD , I think you do

11:25

go through a bit of a process there , don't you

11:28

? Because you may sort of know that you

11:30

have ADHD but maybe you didn't get

11:32

a formal diagnosis and

11:34

when you do , it can be a real relief

11:36

, but also , I think there's a bit of

11:38

reflection around . well , what does this mean

11:41

for me and for

11:43

my life ?

11:44

Yeah , definitely so

11:46

for me it was quite positive . But I can also see how it would go the wrong way , where

11:49

people are like I have ADHD , so I'm always going to

11:51

be disorganized , or , you know , I have

11:53

depression , so I'm always going to be like this , and

11:55

they don't see the potential for change , when they

11:57

just see that as part of their identity . So

11:59

I think it's a double edged sword . I think kind of

12:01

go both ways , depending on a lot of different factors

12:04

with that .

12:05

Yeah , and , as you say , being able

12:07

to hold whatever label

12:09

you have , whether that's a diagnosis

12:11

or label of useless , for

12:13

example , holding them lightly

12:15

rather than tightly

12:18

, and that , as one of your followers has

12:20

said , it's not your whole identity

12:22

, like it's part of your experience

12:25

as a human , but it's not the whole of

12:27

you . There are so many other

12:29

different parts and I often

12:31

sometimes get people to think about

12:33

it in terms of a pie chart . You know , draw out

12:36

the of , you know what makes

12:38

you you and okay , so the diagnosis

12:40

bit or the mental health problem that you're experiencing

12:42

might be a tiny slither of that

12:44

pie chart , but what about all the other

12:47

parts of it ? And that

12:49

again , a visual representation of actually

12:52

I'm . I'm much bigger than this , this

12:54

diagnosis , this identity that I have . Yeah , I think that's really powerful , like knowing that I'm much

12:56

bigger than this this diagnosis , this identity that I have .

12:57

Yeah , I think that's really powerful , like knowing that I'm more than my depression

12:59

, like that's . I have that condition , but

13:01

that's not who I am .

13:02

I think that's really powerful , okay , so

13:05

moving on , then you can't control

13:07

how other people feel

13:09

about you . What do you say to

13:11

that one ?

13:13

I think a lot of us live our lives trying

13:15

to please other people and to fit molds

13:17

and expectations that other people set for us

13:19

, and I think ultimately it's really

13:21

liberating just acknowledging that not everyone's

13:23

going to like you , you know . I

13:26

think you know we're all unique . I think it's just so

13:28

important to be yourself and try not to , you

13:30

know , change yourself , to please other people , because ultimately

13:32

you can't please everyone and

13:34

you can't control how they feel about you . So

13:37

I try to really emphasize that on social media . I'm a little bit quirky

13:39

, a little bit weird on my stories and I

13:42

embrace that . I think that's really important to

13:44

kind of be who you are .

13:46

It's so interesting that you say that , Sam , because

13:48

I wouldn't say you're quirky or weird on your

13:50

stories .

13:51

That's interesting .

13:52

I feel like there's a big dynamic between

13:54

my videos and how I am on stories um

13:57

, but maybe that's just in my head , maybe I'm making that

13:59

up oh , I think , I think you come across

14:01

um just really personable and

14:03

friendly and , you know , really wanting

14:05

to help people okay , well , that's

14:07

that's what I'm going for .

14:08

So that's , that's good . That's a big part of who I am , but

14:10

I see myself as a little bit quirky . Maybe some

14:13

stories that you haven't seen , or something like that , but

14:15

, um , yeah , a little bit of an

14:17

oddball , but a lovable oddball .

14:18

So , um , all good but

14:20

, as you say , it's interesting , isn't it like we all

14:22

hold certain narratives and stories

14:25

about ourselves , don't we and

14:27

our brains have evolved

14:29

to compare to

14:31

other people , like it's a way one , one

14:33

way that we've survived as a species . If we don't

14:36

know how we are doing in

14:38

relation to the group , then

14:41

that's very difficult , isn't it ?

14:43

Yeah , absolutely . And we have the negativity bias

14:45

as well . So we're always going to see ourselves as inferior

14:48

and always be quite harsh on ourselves . So

14:50

I think that magnifies everything . And we see

14:52

the highlight reels and stuff on social media . It's

14:54

not a very fair representation of people's

14:56

lives . So

15:03

the comparison trap is a hard one to to fall into . I think comparing yourself to your old

15:05

self and kind of running your own race is really important . But as soon as we get into the trap of comparing ourselves to others

15:07

, it can be a bit of a downhill battle sometimes

15:09

yeah , and I did an episode on

15:11

this um about you know , if you constantly

15:13

compare yourself to others , then try

15:15

these strategies .

15:16

That's episode three , if anyone's interested . But

15:19

we essentially yeah , we can't control

15:21

how we exist in the minds

15:24

of other people . So we can have an

15:26

idea about how other people see

15:28

us , but that might be completely different and I think

15:30

our conversation just there , that's interesting

15:32

your perception of how you come across

15:35

, like that really shows that , doesn't it ? and

15:37

I think I think being aware of

15:40

how much you compare yourself

15:42

to other people and whether

15:44

that is helpful or not because there is helpful

15:46

comparison isn't there where we're it can

15:48

sort of help us feel like we're doing okay in

15:50

life and and things like that . But when

15:52

it's unhelpful and you constantly

15:55

feel like you just don't match

15:57

up , you're not good enough compared to

15:59

others , like that's when it just doesn't

16:01

help you move forward in life .

16:03

Yeah , definitely , I think , a lot of the people that we look

16:05

up to . Sometimes we're really inspired by them , but

16:07

sometimes it just makes us feel inferior . So

16:09

I think it's really important to just be mindful of how

16:12

you're comparing yourself to others , making

16:14

sure that you're surrounding yourself with positive influences

16:16

and I think running your race is really important

16:18

and working on self-improvement and becoming a better

16:20

version of yourself , as opposed to trying to match

16:22

someone else absolutely okay

16:25

.

16:25

So the next one was speak

16:27

to yourself as nicely as you would speak

16:29

to others . Change

16:31

your self-talk . This

16:33

is a huge topic , isn't it because for me

16:36

this , just , it's just self-compassion

16:38

, right ? So what are your thoughts on this one ?

16:41

yeah , I'm going to do a post on this , definitely

16:43

. But it's really interesting how we're so harsh

16:45

and unforgiving to ourself , yet if someone

16:47

else makes a very similar mistake , we're very supportive

16:50

and encouraging and forgiving . And

16:52

it comes back to that negativity , bias

16:54

and you know that sort of stuff as well . But I

16:57

think it's so important if we can treat our

16:59

like we treat other people , that will just make a

17:01

world of difference to how you feel and how you go

17:03

about things . I think it's changing

17:05

yourself . Talk is everything . I think that's so important

17:07

to be mindful of how you're talking to yourself . And

17:10

that's a really easy thing to just look at how you're

17:12

speaking to other people and then apply that advice to

17:14

yourself .

17:23

But it's hard to do , isn't it ? I think I tend to come across two types of people , which this

17:26

is a huge overgeneralization but generally speaking , you've got people that either don't really

17:28

have an awareness of how they talk to

17:30

themselves in the first place , or

17:32

you've got people that are quite self-critical

17:34

, and obviously in my work I work with highly self-critical

17:37

and obviously in my work I work with highly self-critical people . So I

17:39

talk about self-compassion all the time

17:41

. So that ability to you

17:43

know , be sensitive to your own

17:45

distress , to care

17:47

for yourself and for your well-being

17:49

, and to to be able to tolerate

17:52

your distress , to be able to sit with it that's

17:54

a big part of being self-compassionate

17:56

. To have sympathy for yourself , to feel moved to , to take able to sit with it that's a big part of being self-compassionate . To have sympathy for yourself , to feel

17:58

moved to to take action

18:00

to alleviate your , your distress

18:03

, and to be non-judgmental and

18:05

empathic and understand

18:07

and validate your own emotions and experiences

18:10

, like all of that is so

18:12

key , but it's hard

18:14

to do , isn't it ? We have blocks that

18:16

get in the way is a big part of my

18:19

therapy work , actually , it's sort of trying to work

18:21

out okay . So we've got this idea

18:23

that you can . You know , you just

18:25

need to be self-compassionate or you just need to talk

18:27

to yourself nicely . But

18:30

that's not easy to do . And why isn't

18:32

it easy ? Is it because you

18:34

feel like you don't deserve to be

18:36

nice or kind to yourself ? Or do

18:38

you feel like if you let go of

18:41

the inner critic or the self-criticism , that

18:43

that will somehow be detrimental

18:45

to you ? So there are a lot of people that are

18:48

self-critical because they feel that it pushes

18:50

them forward , it helps motivate them . Most

18:52

of the time that is just not helpful because

18:55

it creates so much suffering

18:57

, I think .

18:58

Yeah , absolutely yeah . Defense was very much like that as

19:00

well . Army is a very regimented , strict

19:02

environment and people used punishment

19:04

and being really regimented and strict

19:06

to try and be a motivator , but they

19:09

found that that doesn't really work . It's

19:11

just like if you're going to the gym because you hate

19:13

yourself and you hate your body . That's a very different thing

19:15

to wanting to improve yourself and wanting to

19:17

be healthy .

19:18

I think it really changes the source of motivation

19:20

for you and

19:22

you have also had a life as

19:24

a personal trainer as well , haven't you ?

19:26

I have . Yes , so I've done a few things in my

19:28

life .

19:29

I'm bringing that in because I was thinking there about

19:32

, like when you've been working with people and

19:34

they , if you have noticed that they're quite down

19:36

on themselves , like how have you

19:38

used self-compassion to sort of help

19:40

them motivate themselves ? Have you brought

19:42

that into your work as a personal trainer or not , really

19:45

, A little bit .

19:46

I like to kind of , I guess , walk the talk myself

19:48

. Like I like to normalize things , especially

19:50

on social media , like I'm very open

19:52

, that I've struggled with anxiety in the past

19:55

. I've struggled with anxiety in the past , I've struggled with ADHD and certain things

19:57

and I think people understanding that you know I'm

19:59

a psychologist and I struggle with things that normalizes

20:02

things and helps people to understand that what their

20:04

feelings okay , like them being hard on themselves

20:06

. It's just all humans are hard on themselves

20:08

, all humans go through things . And

20:10

as a personal trainer I like to kind of do the same thing

20:12

as well , where I would smash myself in the

20:14

gym and I would go through discomfort to kind of

20:16

show my clients that you know this is really

20:18

miserable , but I can do it and you can do it too

20:20

. So I try to kind of lead by example when it

20:22

comes to both of those sorts of things .

20:25

That's so true , isn't it ? And you know I am

20:28

not a perfect person and I do

20:30

struggle with self-criticism sometimes

20:32

and , yeah , it can really catch

20:35

me when I feel

20:37

like I've made some kind of mistake or

20:39

haven't done such a good job in

20:42

something and I do . Even

20:44

now , even through all the work that I do

20:46

and the therapy that I've had in my life , I

20:48

still have to check myself

20:50

and go okay , I'm really noticing

20:53

my inner critic is really loud

20:55

today . What can I do ? Do about

20:57

this ? You know , how can I support

20:59

myself ? That's the question that I say

21:02

a lot in my therapy room . It's ask

21:04

yourself that question how can I support

21:06

myself with this in this difficult moment

21:08

? How can I help ? What help do I

21:10

need and how can I get that ?

21:12

Yeah , it's great . It's been a big test for me on social media

21:14

as well , because , like , I'll post a video and I'll get

21:16

50 great comments and I'll get one bad one

21:18

, and you just fixate on the bad one . Yeah

21:20

, but I think it's really important to notice that

21:22

you're doing that and take a step back and say wait

21:25

, this was a good video . I got so much support

21:27

and I was really proud of the message that I put across

21:29

and not everyone's going to resonate with the advice that

21:32

I put forward and you know it's

21:34

we have . We're like magnets . We're drawn

21:37

to the criticism and in the bad .

21:38

But I think it's really important to take a step back and we

21:40

notice that we're doing that and I think what I

21:42

would say if someone is struggling with this

21:44

and they do want to try and change their

21:47

self-talk is again

21:49

kind of going back to that idea of like writing things

21:51

down and being able to notice

21:54

what your negative

21:56

or unhelpful self-talk is like

21:59

. So , um , maybe

22:01

you know , if you've had , if you're in a difficult moment

22:03

or you're feeling really bad about something

22:05

, you know , just just get out a piece of paper or

22:08

notes in your phone and just jot down what

22:10

is my mind saying and how am I feeling

22:13

, and through

22:15

that process and over practice and over time

22:17

, you'll be able to really hone

22:19

in on ah , there's my inner critic . And

22:21

maybe giving it a name and all just a label

22:24

as like your inner critic , can be helpful too

22:26

. Ah , there's my inner critic again .

22:28

Yeah , separating it , yeah , and it's helpful to make sense

22:31

of where it came from , because often it's like internalized

22:33

voices from our childhood , you know , like harsh

22:35

parents and critical teachers and things like

22:37

that , and actually identifying that can

22:39

help you to realize this isn't me , this

22:41

is a voice from someone else that I've internalized

22:43

.

22:44

Yeah , that's so helpful , isn't it , when you

22:46

can again , in a difficult

22:48

moment , kind of go oh no , these are

22:50

like ghosts from the past , like this is something

22:52

from my past that's coming in

22:55

and me buying into that right now

22:57

isn't going to help me move forward . It's not going to help

22:59

me be the person that I want to be . You know

23:01

, thinking about values .

23:03

Yeah , I love that . Like the key act question , is

23:05

this helpful ? No , and learn to let it

23:07

go . So I think that's a really important question , yeah

23:09

absolutely Okay .

23:11

So number five then don't

23:13

let others comments take control over you

23:16

. Then

23:20

don't let others comments take control over you . You have control over how you respond

23:22

and react , so what about ?

23:22

this one . So I guess , first and foremost , I would recommend

23:24

don't take criticism from someone that you wouldn't take

23:26

advice from . On social media , like

23:29

, we're bombarded with people that you

23:31

know not qualified psychologists that are criticizing

23:33

certain things . I think it's really important to be

23:36

mindful of who you're listening to , but if

23:38

you do kind of respect the person , looking

23:40

at things , I guess , more objectively

23:43

and trying not to take things so personally

23:45

, I think with criticism , if someone criticizes

23:47

something we've done , it's so easy to be like , oh my

23:49

gosh , I'm a failure and really take it on . You

23:51

know your sense of self , but I think it's really

23:53

important to see the constructive in that

23:55

. But yeah , overall I think , yeah , focusing

23:58

on what you can control is just so important

24:00

in life in general . It's the difference between worrying

24:02

and problem solving , essentially . So this

24:04

is just one of those examples where focusing

24:07

on what you can control is just so much more empowering

24:09

than worrying and going around in circles , absolutely

24:12

, and I think here I

24:14

want to just

24:16

differentiate between responding and reacting

24:19

, because for me , responding

24:22

is more thoughtful

24:24

and thought through , isn't it ?

24:25

It's I am choosing

24:28

how I respond in this situation

24:30

, whereas reacting is a much more

24:32

kind of impulsive thing , isn't it

24:34

? It's more based in emotions . I think so

24:36

. Again , in my therapy room

24:38

I talk about there is a difference between responding

24:41

and reacting , and actually if you can

24:43

pause , take a

24:45

breath , notice what's happening in

24:47

your mind and how you're feeling , then

24:49

you can choose how you

24:52

respond in that situation . So you're

24:54

not like a puppet on a string with the thoughts

24:56

that are saying you've got to go and do this , you've got to do this , or

24:58

the emotions are pulling you in a particular

25:00

direction . You can separate

25:03

from that so that you can choose

25:05

how you want to respond in terms of the

25:07

kind of person that you want to be .

25:09

Yeah , absolutely . I think the power of the pause is

25:11

such , even just a few seconds , to notice

25:14

what you're feeling and just experience the sensations

25:16

, as opposed to just emotion act , just

25:18

breaking that link , giving your thinking brain

25:20

, you know , time to come back online again . Just

25:23

pausing , yeah , taking a couple deep breaths can

25:25

make a massive difference between reacting

25:27

and responding , as you said .

25:28

So the pause is a very powerful

25:30

thing and that um classic

25:33

exercise or strategy

25:35

from russ harris , who is

25:38

an australian , um and he's

25:40

got loads of books on act um the pause

25:42

, breathe , notice and name . So that's my

25:44

go-to strategy where

25:46

you pause , you take a breath , you

25:49

name what's showing up for you , whether that's thoughts

25:51

or feelings , or thoughts and feelings , and

25:53

then you can . Then you can sort of respond much

25:56

in a much more values

25:58

guided way yeah , absolutely .

26:00

I love Russ Harris . I've attended a lot of his workshops

26:02

and he makes things so simple and easy to understand

26:05

with his analogies and things like that . So , yeah

26:07

, what you described , that's really simple . That clients

26:09

can you know , even when they are in the midst

26:11

of an emotional tidal wave , they can just go through those

26:13

steps and calm themselves down . So that's

26:16

good stuff .

26:17

Yeah , and just naming what

26:19

you're going through is super helpful

26:21

, isn't it ? Even if it's just oh , here's

26:24

anxiety or here's panic , or

26:26

my mind is saying X

26:28

, y , z , you know , just having

26:30

that , doing that process of naming , it's

26:33

sort of it's an act of self-validation

26:36

, isn't it really ?

26:37

Yeah , definitely , and I think it helps you detach as

26:39

well . Like I'm not the emotion , I'm

26:42

having the emotion , and

26:44

I think it's really powerful to feel the feelings

26:46

as well . Like , if you're feeling angry , what does that feel

26:48

like ? Like , is it a tightness ? Is there

26:50

a heat ? Are your fists clenched ? Like actually

26:52

go through your body and just become curious

26:54

about all the sensations that you're feeling and

26:57

just sitting with the feeling , as opposed to trying to get

26:59

rid of it or acting on it . No-transcript

27:32

, a 90 second chemical reaction . And

27:34

if you experience the emotion for longer than that

27:36

, it's because your thoughts and actions are

27:38

adding fuel to the fire and keeping that emotion

27:40

going . So , for example

27:42

, if you're driving to work and someone cuts you

27:44

off in traffic , you might feel a

27:46

wave of anger , but you don't just allow that

27:48

to naturally dissipate . You think , oh my gosh , he's

27:50

so inconsiderate , what an idiot . I'm going to be late

27:53

for work now . And you just keep going with your thoughts

27:55

and actions that keep the anger going

27:57

, as opposed to just letting it naturally dissipate

27:59

.

27:59

Yeah , and so again we're coming

28:02

back to the idea of being able to

28:04

separate , to slow things

28:06

down so that you can just

28:08

let the emotion kind

28:11

of wash over you . Really , and I

28:13

talk a lot about I think you've talked about this in one

28:15

of your videos urge surfing , and being able

28:17

to I mean seeing emotions

28:19

as waves , I think again is a helpful

28:21

visualization in terms of it builds

28:24

and it builds and it builds . There's a peak where it feels

28:26

really tough if it's a difficult emotion , and

28:29

then it will always dissipate and it's sort of

28:31

how you manage

28:33

those waves when they come , isn't it ?

28:35

Yeah , and I think in the midst of an emotional

28:37

tidal wave , it feels like it's just going to last forever

28:40

and it's just a part of who we are . We have to deal with this

28:42

. But in but , in reality everything

28:44

it's just like a wave it goes up and it goes down

28:46

and if you can just sit with it and ride it out , it

28:48

will eventually dissipate . So I think that's really

28:50

reassuring to tell yourself when you're feeling those

28:52

really intense emotions .

28:54

Definitely so the next

28:56

one , then I really like this one . One

28:59

day at a time that it's okay

29:01

to take your time . Baby

29:03

steps are completely acceptable

29:05

during mental health crises . So

29:07

what do you make of this ?

29:09

one . I think slow and steady

29:11

wins the race when it comes to improving your mental

29:13

health . I think it's so important to just

29:15

take slow , consistent , manageable steps

29:17

, and consistency compounds like

29:19

just making a few changes and building

29:21

on that over time can lead to really big results

29:24

. I think a lot of us in psychology

29:27

and in fitness , whatever the realm is

29:29

we get in the habit of wanting results

29:31

now and taking these big strides forward

29:33

that aren't sustainable and we go through these fluctuations

29:35

as opposed to making really steady progress

29:37

. So I think , when it comes to mental health

29:39

in particular , I think it's important to

29:41

just focus on a few things and do them well

29:43

and just really slowly and gradually build

29:45

, as opposed to taking these big steps

29:47

which probably won't be sustainable .

29:49

I think , just picking up on what one of your

29:52

followers said there about a mental health crisis

29:54

. So I would define

29:57

a crisis . As you know , someone

29:59

who perhaps is having suicidal thoughts

30:01

, doesn't want to be here anymore , or is perhaps

30:03

having thoughts around harming other people

30:06

, is really experiencing , you

30:08

know , severe depression

30:10

or perhaps anxiety as well , doesn't

30:12

want to get out of bed , isn't looking

30:14

after themselves , self-neglecting . So

30:16

that's the kind of picture for me

30:19

in terms of what a mental health crisis means

30:21

. And whenever I'm working

30:24

with people who are in

30:26

that space , something that you'll hear

30:28

me say is either one

30:30

day at a time or one hour at

30:32

a time . It is so important to

30:34

try and just , yeah

30:37

, take it one step at a time

30:39

, but making tiny , tiny

30:42

changes . So if you're in the depths

30:44

of depression and it's really hard to

30:46

get out of bed , then just

30:48

spend I don't know 10 minutes . Just

30:50

spend 10 minutes out of bed on the first

30:52

day , next day , 15 minutes

30:54

and just gradually build it up . And certainly

30:57

when I'm working with people who are depressed , it's

30:59

sort of behaviour activation stuff

31:01

around . You know , let's really try and change

31:05

the behaviour first before we even start

31:07

thinking about the , the thoughts that are

31:09

are showing up before you and

31:11

and also sort of get you know if you're in a mental

31:13

health crisis . Getting support is

31:15

really really key as well . But yeah

31:17

, that one day at a time . It's so important , isn't

31:19

it ?

31:20

oh , definitely . I think that's the reason we become overwhelmed

31:23

, because we're looking too far ahead and we think of everything

31:25

that could possibly go wrong along the way . So that's

31:27

my best advice with anyone feeling overwhelmed

31:30

with anything just to take things one step

31:32

at a time and focus on that next step . And

31:34

I think in someone in a crisis situation , just

31:37

focusing on the small wins , as you said , getting

31:39

out of bed , you know , drinking a glass of water

31:41

, whatever it might be just really celebrating

31:43

those little victories , and it's kind of like a snowball

31:46

rolling down the hill , like there's going to be ups and downs

31:48

, but once you get a little bit of momentum , it

31:50

becomes a little bit easier to take that next step . You

31:52

can generate some momentum that way .

31:54

Yeah , and that's really important that point that

31:56

you made about celebrating

31:58

the wins , because , particularly

32:01

if you are depressed , you're going

32:03

to be thinking in a very negative way , generally

32:05

speaking , and therefore it's going to be very

32:07

difficult to recognise

32:09

the tiny wins or the small wins

32:12

. You know oh , I was out of bed for 10 minutes

32:14

today Like that's a massive win , that's a massive

32:16

achievement , and often in therapy

32:18

I see my role , as you

32:21

know , being the person that says that was

32:23

amazing , Brilliant , Keep

32:25

it going , brilliant , keep going with it and pointing

32:27

it out how well they're doing

32:29

, even though it feels like they used

32:32

to be in a full-time

32:34

job and now they can't get out of bed . There's that

32:36

very negative thinking that comes in and

32:38

if you can just go , well , okay , but

32:41

being out of bed for 10 minutes is a huge achievement

32:43

. Let's focus on the next goal

32:46

after that .

32:47

Yeah , absolutely . And I think it's really important

32:49

to normalize setbacks as well . Like

32:51

I've worked with a lot of clients and I've never seen completely

32:53

linear progress , like there's always ups and

32:55

downs . They're learning opportunities

32:57

. But I think we can get so

32:59

hard on ourself when we make a mistake and we slip

33:02

up and we feel like we're going backwards , and

33:09

I've done a video on this . It's called the what the hell ? Effect , where one small slip up leads

33:11

to just completely derailing everything . So I think it's really important to

33:13

normalize okay , I've made a mistake here , what can I learn

33:15

from that ? And then just to get back on track . Setbacks

33:18

will happen . Mental health progress is always

33:20

going to go a little bit up and down , but I think it's really important

33:23

to normalize that and and

33:25

learn from it and get back on track when you can yeah

33:27

, and I always find it interesting how I mean

33:29

there's so there's so many posts isn't there on social

33:32

media about the .

33:33

You know that the kind of graph of healing

33:35

isn't linear and there's always , there's always another graph

33:38

with like a messy line , um

33:40

, so you've seen that stuff

33:42

, right , right , like you know . You

33:44

know rationally , ok , yeah , healing isn't linear

33:47

and it's a process , but when you're in

33:49

it , there can be a lot of

33:51

impatience and obviously

33:53

you want to get better , you want to feel better

33:55

, you want to get back to your life . So

33:57

I think it can feel very frustrating

33:59

when you don't see the

34:02

progress that you were expecting , and

34:04

maybe your expectations were too high

34:06

in the first place .

34:08

Yeah , I think realistic expectations is

34:10

another really important thing . I think

34:12

people set the bar really high for

34:14

themselves and it's really hard to match their expectations

34:16

sometimes . So I think it's really important as

34:18

a psychologist just to kind of let them know

34:20

that mental health . It takes a long

34:23

time to work through all this sort of stuff and

34:25

just acknowledge that it's going to be a long

34:27

, difficult progress . There's going to be bumps in the road , but

34:29

that's how you get to the other side and how you work through

34:31

things .

34:32

Yeah , absolutely so . Our

34:35

last one , then again , I really

34:37

like this one . Very short and

34:39

sweet , you do you . So

34:42

what comes to ?

34:43

your mind when I say that . So

34:46

I've actually written down a quote for this one . I'm not sure who it's by , but it sums

34:48

up kind of my thoughts about it , which

34:51

is you should just be yourself . Not

34:53

because it will make you more likable it won't

34:55

but because it's only by being yourself that

34:57

you'll find people who like you for who you really

34:59

are rather than for someone who you're pretending

35:01

to be . So I think

35:03

, yeah , it's one of my favorites , and I can't

35:06

find out who it's by . It's an anonymous person , but

35:08

my respect to whoever wrote that

35:10

. But yeah , I think when

35:12

we're playing the role of someone else , it's

35:14

really easy for us to feel really lonely

35:16

and disconnected , even if we're surrounded by people

35:18

. I think that's why a lot of people go through their

35:21

life , yeah , just feeling this sense of

35:23

disconnection because they're being

35:25

who other people want them to be , as opposed to who

35:27

they really want to be . And I think

35:29

you only live once . I think it's really important

35:31

to do what you want to do and make the most

35:33

out of things . And it's not going to please

35:35

everyone , you're not going to get along with everyone , but I

35:38

think it's just so important and the friends that you do

35:40

make are going to be friends that like you

35:42

, for you , if you are yourself , as opposed to someone

35:44

that you're trying to be absolutely

35:47

and I think it can

35:49

be can be really challenging , can't

35:51

it to to sort of do you and be yourself

35:54

to the outside world , and

35:56

it can .

35:56

It can take a long time to get to

35:58

a place where you feel like you

36:01

are being your authentic self , and

36:03

maybe there's a bit of work that you need to do around . What

36:05

is my authentic self Like ? Who

36:08

does that look like ?

36:09

What does that person ?

36:10

do you know ?

36:12

Yeah , I think we often lose sight of that , like

36:14

we're so fixated on fitting in and

36:16

living up to other people's expectations and doing

36:18

what we think we should do , as opposed to what we want

36:20

to do and who we actually are . I think we

36:22

often lose sight of who we are and just

36:24

kind of follow the crowd , sort of thing . So I think it's

36:26

really important to do some work to figure

36:28

out who am I and to embrace yourself

36:30

. You know all your imperfections and your quirks . You know

36:33

that's what makes you you and I think that's really beautiful

36:35

.

36:35

Yeah and I think what can

36:37

drive a lot of the insecurities

36:39

and and that kind of need to people

36:42

please and to and to not wear

36:44

what you want or be who you want , is

36:46

a sense of like , not feeling good enough or

36:48

having a not good enough story , like

36:50

we like to say in ACT and I've

36:53

got an episode on that , actually episode one . That's

36:55

my first episode on the not good enough narrative

36:57

and how to overcome it , so do go

36:59

check that out . So we've talked

37:01

about a lot today . I think we've done a really kind

37:03

of good job on the sort of breadth

37:05

of things , isn't it ? In terms of , like

37:08

, what can make mental

37:10

health good and the advice around

37:12

mental health . So what have you found

37:14

helpful in your life in terms of maintaining

37:16

good mental health ?

37:18

Yeah , so a lot of things , some that we've already

37:20

discussed . I think the first one is

37:23

as a former personal trainer , I'm very

37:25

big on the relationship between physical health and mental

37:27

health and I think prioritizing

37:29

sleep and good nutrition and regular

37:31

movement they're great for physical health

37:33

, but they can have they can work wonders for your mental

37:35

health and how you feel about yourself and how you function

37:38

as well . So big crossover there . I

37:40

think self-talk is hugely important

37:42

. I think , as we've kind of discussed , we can

37:44

be very critical towards ourself and that's

37:46

just how our minds kind of naturally go about

37:48

. I think it's about , you know , pushing pause , acknowledging

37:51

that , figuring out where it came from and

37:53

learning to let that go and to treat yourself as you

37:55

treat other people . And I think , finally

37:57

I did a story about this on Instagram today

38:00

the importance of doing hard things and challenging

38:02

yourself , and I actually use this podcast as

38:04

an example , saying that you know I was quite nervous

38:06

, but you know this is something that's an amazing

38:08

opportunity and I'm so grateful . And I

38:10

think growth only comes from challenging yourself

38:13

and pushing through that resistance . And I

38:15

think it's so important for limiting beliefs . We

38:17

form these beliefs like I can't do this , I'm not good

38:19

enough , and a really powerful

38:21

way to you know change these

38:23

limiting beliefs is to prove to yourself that you

38:25

can and to overcome these challenges . I

38:28

think getting evidence . So I really

38:30

support doing hard things and challenging yourself

38:32

in slow , manageable steps so you're not overwhelming

38:34

yourself . But yeah , I use this podcast as an

38:36

example of something that I was nervous about , but

38:38

it was pushing through the resistance and doing hard things

38:41

and trying to set a good example for the people that I'm

38:43

giving advice to .

38:44

Absolutely , and you're

38:46

so right , isn't it ? And

38:48

we don't grow if we don't

38:50

push ourselves , if we don't go outside

38:53

our comfort zones , if we always stay in

38:55

the comfort zone , then we

38:57

can't get evidence that , oh , actually

38:59

, we can do something else or we can do something better

39:01

or we can learn other

39:04

things . And I've had the same process

39:06

, actually , with this podcast . You know , when I started

39:09

, I hadn't

39:11

even really listened to podcasts before in

39:13

my life . So , you know , the idea

39:16

of doing a podcast just sort of came to me one

39:18

day and I thought , oh , that's a good idea . I didn't realize

39:20

how much work it would be , but it's

39:22

been a great experience . And , um

39:25

, you know , public speaking isn't my

39:27

favorite thing to do , but

39:29

it's been a great opportunity to

39:31

get used to kind of being more

39:34

visible , um , I suppose

39:36

on things like social media and things

39:38

. So , yeah , it's , it's so

39:40

important , isn't it ? And you can get a lot from

39:43

it when you , when you , go outside your

39:45

comfort zone , can't you ?

39:46

Absolutely yeah , and I've done a post on the stretch

39:48

zone . I think if we push ourselves too far

39:51

, it can derail and things might not

39:53

go as planned . But there's this sweet spot , which is the

39:55

stretch zone , where we're pushing ourselves a little bit , but

39:57

it's not too overwhelming . So I think it's really

39:59

important to kind of find that zone for yourself

40:01

, to push yourself and challenge yourself , whatever that looks

40:03

like for you , but just pursue meaningful goals

40:06

. I think you know anxiety

40:08

is a normal part of being human , but that can really

40:10

hold us back and make us avoid things that are really

40:12

meaningful for us . So I think it's really important

40:15

to push yourself because you know

40:17

there's risk involved but it could lead

40:19

to a really good outcome on the other side .

40:20

I love the idea of the stretch zone I'm

40:24

going to use that for myself .

40:25

Definitely not an original thing , I can't take credit for that

40:27

. But good term

40:29

, yeah , it's helpful .

40:31

Well , Sam , I really appreciate you

40:33

being in your stretch zone in this podcast

40:35

today . Thank you so much for

40:37

joining me .

40:38

Yeah , thank you so much for having me . As I said , I've been following

40:41

you for a long time and I really enjoy your content

40:43

and the messages that you provide , so thank you . I

40:45

was very honored to be asked to join

40:47

you , so thank you so much for having me and don't

40:49

forget that your app comes out soon

40:52

.

40:52

So to be determined , but I'm sure you'll let

40:54

everyone know once it's released yeah

40:57

, yeah , we'll do .

40:57

Yeah , starting promotion soon . But yeah , in a few

40:59

weeks time touch wood . Hopefully everything goes okay

41:01

, great , brilliant .

41:03

Thank you so much thank

41:06

you for listening to this episode of

41:08

hello therapy . If you found it helpful

41:10

, don't forget to subscribe , follow

41:13

and review . You can get

41:15

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41:17

joining our email list and

41:19

visiting the resources section of

41:21

our website at harleyclinicalcouk

41:25

. The Hello Therapy podcast

41:27

and the information provided by me , dr

41:29

Liz White , is solely intended

41:31

for information and educational

41:33

purposes and does not constitute

41:36

personalized advice . Please

41:38

do reach out to your GP or

41:40

a mental health professional if you

41:43

need support . Until next

41:45

time , take care of yourself .