0:00

Funding for here and now any

0:02

time comes from Math Works creators

0:04

of Matt Lab and simulating software

0:07

accelerating the pace of engineering and

0:09

science. Learn more at Math works.com.

0:11

This. Message comes from Npr sponsor Capella

0:14

University. Capella programs teach skills relevant

0:16

to your career so you can

0:18

apply what you learn right away.

0:20

see how Capella can make a

0:22

difference in your life? I Capella.edu.

0:25

So. Great to have you with us

0:27

for here and now any time

0:29

where we share stories that matter

0:31

and stories that surprise so gone

0:33

ahead and subscribe, Follow and share.

0:36

Here. We go. Your he

0:38

is a convicted felon and it's just no

0:40

problem at all to have a convicted felon

0:42

as president. We know that his view at

0:45

the moment. So yeah, his rhetoric is rambling

0:47

on. Trump's stepped up attack

0:49

on the rule of law. What will

0:51

it mean? For the Department of Justice.

0:55

It is Monday. June third from

0:57

Npr Nw be you are

0:59

Boston. Welcome to here and

1:01

now any time I'm Shirley

1:03

Job. On

1:14

our show today. In makes history electing

1:16

it's first female President. We're going

1:18

to learn more about Claudia Shane

1:21

mom. She's the former Mayor of

1:23

Mexico City and she's a climate

1:26

scientist. And then a new summer

1:28

program to help feed children. It's

1:30

called Some Bucks. It gives qualifying

1:33

families a little grocery money during

1:35

the summer months when children aren't

1:37

getting school lunches. one hundred and

1:40

twenty dollars per child who is

1:42

eligible in the household still. Though.

1:45

About a dozen states are

1:47

refusing turning down the federal

1:49

dollars. For the program. coming

1:58

up first Former President

2:00

Donald Trump is now also

2:03

convicted felon Donald Trump. Many

2:06

call the guilty verdicts a victory for the

2:08

rule of law, showing no one is above

2:10

prosecution and showing the jury

2:12

system worked. But now,

2:14

U.S. House Speaker Mike Johnson is

2:17

calling New York prosecutors over to

2:19

Washington for a hearing to question them.

2:22

Also, going forward, new reports

2:24

show an effort to flood

2:26

the Justice Department with stalwart

2:28

conservatives to remake the DOJ

2:30

and the FBI if Trump

2:32

wins. Donald Ayer

2:35

served as Deputy Attorney General for George

2:37

H.W. Bush and worked in the

2:39

Reagan administration. He's been writing about the rule

2:41

of law, and he talks with Anthony Brooks.

2:44

Many of Trump's supporters are buying his

2:46

line, his claim, that this trial was

2:48

rigged. But in a piece in the

2:50

bulwark that you coauthored, you call the

2:52

verdict a triumph for the rule of

2:55

law. Can you explain that? Yeah,

2:58

bottom line is the trial is in

3:00

the public eye, every last detail, and

3:02

there was nothing rigged about it. You

3:04

can't find a thing in there that

3:06

amounts to somebody dictating the outcome or

3:08

anything else. And at the end of

3:11

the day, 12 jurors who were

3:13

picked by a very fair and

3:15

neutral process, in which

3:17

Trump's lawyers, just like the prosecutors,

3:19

haven't had a major role to

3:21

play in their election, they reached

3:23

the conclusion that Trump was guilty

3:26

beyond a reasonable doubt of

3:28

every single charge. People

3:31

who think about things are going to say, well, wait

3:33

a minute, how was this trial rigged? And

3:36

there's nothing you can find to say that

3:38

it was rigged. Well, let me jump in

3:40

there, because given all that, then, are you

3:42

surprised that so many in your party, so

3:45

many Republicans are echoing Trump's statements, calling the

3:47

case against him rigged and unfair? No.

3:50

I think people we're hearing from now

3:53

are sorry suck ups who

3:55

are seeking to curry favor. I think a

3:57

lot of them want to be vice president.

4:00

What also doesn't surprise me is the polling

4:02

that's come out that's limited and it's

4:04

immediate and you don't want to jump

4:06

to too many conclusions based on it.

4:09

But USA Today had a poll last

4:11

week that said that one in 10

4:13

Republicans, as a result of

4:15

the verdict, is less likely to vote for

4:17

Trump. Well, that's enormously significant. I mean, of

4:19

course, we're going to have to see how

4:21

these polls play out. And as you

4:23

know, polls aren't predictive. But I want to talk

4:26

to you a little bit about the effect of

4:28

the kind of criticism that Trump

4:31

has steadily targeted the justice

4:33

system with. What does this do to

4:35

the American people's thinking about the justice

4:37

system? Yeah, well, it's

4:40

entirely unprecedented. It's

4:42

also entirely without any

4:45

factual support. And

4:48

it's potentially very

4:50

damaging. Are these

4:52

allegations going to result in

4:54

enough Americans believing that the trial

4:57

was a fraud, that

4:59

Trump is able to win the

5:01

election anyway? That's the big question.

5:03

I don't think so. There

5:05

are too many people who will

5:07

pay some attention and they'll realize

5:10

that the claim that the case was rigged

5:13

is just a blatant lie. Now, if

5:15

the people accepted what Trump

5:17

said, it'd be terrible because then it would

5:19

mean that a majority of the people do

5:21

not support the idea of an independent justice

5:24

system because they don't think it works. Which

5:26

I guess, I don't know, would it mean

5:28

that they'd be willing to accept a Soviet-style

5:31

system? You know, one of

5:33

the recent comparisons that's

5:35

been made between this trial

5:38

and others is it's trials with the

5:41

show trials in the Soviet Union under

5:43

Stalin. A bunch of

5:45

Republican politicians actually said that. Well,

5:47

that's just utter and complete nonsense.

5:50

Those were trials that had no process to

5:52

speak of at all. People

5:55

were tried, convicted, and taken out and

5:57

executed. And the idea that

5:59

there's any comparison... between what everybody

6:01

saw, who cared, in

6:04

New York City. There's just no

6:06

believability of that. I

6:09

want to go back though and just

6:11

talk a little bit with you about

6:13

how Trump's criticism post-conviction is consistent with

6:15

a lot of what he did as

6:17

president. I mean, when he was president,

6:19

he took a pretty activist approach toward

6:21

the country's legal and law enforcement

6:24

systems. And I'm thinking, for example, of how

6:26

he fired FBI Director James

6:28

Comey during an FBI process. FBI probe

6:30

into the Trump campaign. Trump claimed that

6:32

Comey wasn't doing a good job. So

6:35

to what extent do you see Trump's comments

6:37

about the justice system today as consistent

6:40

with actions that he's taken in

6:42

the past? I

6:45

think they're similar. I think they're worse as

6:47

time has passed, as the plot

6:49

has thickened for him. And as the

6:52

seriousness of his situation, his rhetoric

6:55

has ramped up and I think the threats

6:57

of what he would do, retribution

6:59

against his enemies and all these

7:01

various things. But it's

7:03

all, I'm afraid that what I think is

7:06

he's always wanted to be an

7:09

all powerful president. And he had

7:11

Bill Barr as attorney general who

7:13

helped him work toward that goal

7:15

until, for reasons at the end,

7:18

Bill Barr decided to get off the wagon. You're

7:21

certainly right that one can look back

7:23

at his administration and you can look

7:25

back at lots of things that the

7:27

attorney general, Bill Barr, did and say,

7:29

oh my God, that'll happen again. Well,

7:31

the answer is yeah, it probably will,

7:33

but it'll be worse. I think

7:35

if people read the blueprints for

7:37

the administration, they can find for

7:39

themselves what the

7:41

worries are. But it's a major

7:44

set of worries that are just

7:46

fundamentally at odds with our

7:48

basic system of fairness and justice

7:50

that we've all assumed was

7:52

a given for Americans. Well, it's

7:54

not a given. All right. Well, that's

7:56

Donald there. He served as deputy attorney general

7:58

in the George H.W. Bush administration and Mr.

8:01

Air, thank you so much for joining us today.

8:03

We appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Up

8:15

next, Mexico has a new president. We'll

8:18

hear more about Claudia Shanebaum's

8:20

overwhelming and historic victory. Stay

8:22

with us. Electricity.

8:35

A big idea that's inspired countless

8:37

new ones. From powering the light

8:39

bulb to virtually powering our entire lives. 30

8:41

years ago, State Street launched the Spider

8:43

S&P 500 ETS. A

8:47

big idea that inspired the world to invest

8:49

differently and still does. What can you do

8:51

with that? Before investing, consider the funds,

8:53

investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses. Visit ssga.com for

8:55

a print practice containing this and other information. Read

8:57

it carefully before investing. Buy a subject to risk

8:59

similar to those of stocks. Only TS are subject

9:01

to risk, including possible loss of principal, else distributors

9:03

and distributors. Support for NPR

9:05

and the following message come from IXL

9:08

Learning. IXL Learning uses advanced algorithms to

9:10

give the right help to each kid,

9:12

no matter the age or personality. Get

9:14

an exclusive 20% off

9:17

IXL membership when you sign

9:19

up today at ixl.com/npr. This

9:23

message comes from NPR sponsor,

9:25

Viori. A new perspective on

9:27

performance apparel. Clothing designed with

9:29

premium fabrics, built to move

9:31

in, styled for life. For

9:33

20% off your first purchase,

9:35

go to viori.com/ NPR. Mexico

9:39

has elected its first female

9:41

president, Claudia Shambam, the

9:43

former mayor of Mexico City, and

9:46

a leftist, garnered an

9:48

overwhelming victory in Sunday's elections.

9:50

She represents the same political

9:52

party, Morena, as the current

9:54

president, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador.

9:57

Independent journalist Jared Olson has been on

9:59

the go. in Mexico covering

10:01

the election. He joins us

10:03

now from Morelia, the capital of the

10:06

Mexican state of Michoacán. Jared, welcome back.

10:09

Thanks so much for having me on. So

10:11

Jared, you're in an indigenous area there

10:13

in Michoacán. How is the news going

10:16

over where you are? Yeah,

10:19

so for the most part, voting yesterday

10:21

was carried out with the usual movement

10:23

and at times chaos, but without any

10:26

grave sort of interference in the voting

10:28

process. It's a mixed

10:30

bag. Many people are incredibly happy. You

10:32

know, this is one of the largest

10:35

vote turnouts in not just Mexican, but

10:37

Latin American history, right? And Cheyenne bomb

10:39

is one overwhelmingly, right? At

10:41

the local level, things get a little

10:43

bit complex, you know, in the indigenous

10:45

areas where we were reporting yesterday, we

10:48

ran into political operatives for her

10:50

marina party, who in indigenous

10:52

areas where the residents voted to not

10:54

vote in the elections because they actually

10:56

see all the political parties as more

10:58

or less one of the same, right?

11:00

This political operator was openly telling us

11:02

about how he was paying people and

11:05

ferrying them to a neighboring

11:07

district so that they could vote for her party.

11:09

So you still see many of the

11:11

local level sort of corruption going on

11:13

that's often defined Mexican politics for decades,

11:16

but nonetheless, there is still an overwhelming

11:19

air of elation, especially for women in Mexico.

11:21

I mean, this is a historic day. It

11:24

is historic and we'll get to that in a moment,

11:26

but just expand for us. You

11:28

mentioned indigenous people not wanting to vote.

11:30

I have to say it strikes me

11:33

that, you know, a leftist

11:35

party like morena would maybe consider

11:37

indigenous people part of their base.

11:41

Why were indigenous people not wanting to vote?

11:44

To be blunt, indigenous people have been some

11:46

of the most oppressed people in Mexican history

11:49

and even today they see

11:51

all political parties as complicit in

11:53

supporting both the criminal groups that

11:55

extort and that displaced them and

11:57

the extractive mega projects, the mining

11:59

projects. for example, that take

12:01

them out of their communities. So there's

12:03

a certain cynicism, and in this case, in

12:06

indigenous Burepacha village, they had voted before the

12:08

elections that they did not want to participate.

12:11

Also, Jared, I know that where

12:13

you were covering the election in

12:15

rural areas, that very close to

12:17

where you were, one of the

12:20

main candidates was assassinated hours before

12:22

voting. We've heard

12:24

other candidates have been assassinated, hundreds of

12:26

candidates have dropped out. Could

12:28

that threat of violence affect the races

12:31

on the local level? I

12:33

think it does, and I think that's unfortunately

12:35

one of the continuities with the previous style

12:38

of politics here that's going to continue into

12:40

the future. You could sense the

12:42

fear at the place where less than

12:44

a block away, this candidate for the

12:46

local government was murdered hours before the

12:48

electoral cycle began, and where

12:50

the voters were now being watched over by

12:53

municipal police with assault weapons as they went

12:55

to cast their vote. So

12:57

this sort of quotidian violence and

12:59

killings and intimidations in the electoral

13:02

process unfortunately seems to be

13:04

something that will continue. So

13:06

let's talk about Shembam. She's been

13:08

popular for a while. Tell us

13:10

about her appeal. She

13:13

doesn't have the same, I would

13:16

say, cult of personality as Andres

13:18

Manuel Lopez Obrador or Amlo, right?

13:21

She is popular simply because

13:23

she is a very well-educated woman,

13:26

a former climate scientist, and the fact that

13:28

she became the mayor of Mexico City and

13:31

is now the president, that is one of

13:33

the main appeals. What

13:35

remains unclear is to what degree

13:37

her policies may change or shift

13:39

in the legacy of Amlo. And

13:42

a lot of that was aimed at lifting

13:44

people out of poverty, and people

13:46

obviously came out and voted

13:48

for more of that, but

13:51

then there's also the levels of

13:54

violence and killings. And Shembam has

13:56

a real track record as mayor

13:58

of Mexico City of bringing down

14:00

violence and killings, will she be able to

14:02

scale that up, do you think? It

14:06

is true that homicides went down in Mexico

14:08

City, but at the same time, and this

14:10

happens throughout much of Latin America, enforced disappearances

14:12

went up at the exact same time. She

14:16

does not appear poised to challenge

14:18

the growing power of the military

14:20

who AMLO has institutionalized in Mexican

14:22

politics. And the military

14:24

here is probably the most powerful

14:26

state institution protecting organized crime. So

14:29

finally, Jared, Claudia Shembam, first woman

14:32

to lead Mexico. It's something that

14:34

hasn't even happened in this country.

14:36

How big a deal is that?

14:39

It's enormous. And by no means would

14:41

I want to deny the massive elation

14:43

that millions of women feel in Mexico

14:45

right now, especially in light

14:47

of the frightening and

14:49

continuing prevalence of femicide, gender-based

14:52

violence, which unfortunately continues to

14:54

define life for many people

14:56

here in Mexico, right? What

14:59

remains unclear and one of the challenges

15:01

for Shembam will be moving into

15:03

that problem and structurally changing the forces

15:05

that allow so much femicide to take

15:07

place in the first place, because those

15:10

are structural forces. The fact that the

15:12

police will not investigate in many cases,

15:14

femicide cases. So she's got many challenges

15:16

ahead of her. Jared

15:18

Olson, independent reporter joining us

15:21

from Morelia, which is the capital of

15:23

the Mexican state of Michoacán. Jared, thank

15:25

you so much. Thanks

15:28

so much for having me on. Coming

15:35

up, a little extra lunch money for families

15:37

during the summer. That's the idea behind

15:40

a new federal program. But

15:42

some states are turning away the cash. Find

15:45

out why in a moment. Stay with us.

16:02

This message comes from NPR sponsor, MIDI

16:05

Health. Women in midlife face

16:07

a healthcare desert, but MIDI is here

16:09

to fill the gap, offering expert care

16:11

for para-menopause and menopause covered by insurance.

16:13

Hot flashes, insomnia, brain fog, weight gain

16:16

and moodiness don't have to be accepted

16:18

as just another part of aging. MIDI

16:21

clinicians understand how these symptoms can connect

16:23

to menopause and prescribe a wide range

16:25

of solutions. Book your visit today at

16:28

joinmidi.com. This message comes

16:30

from NPR sponsor, Progressive

16:32

Insurance, where drivers who switch could save

16:35

hundreds on car insurance. Get your quote

16:37

at progressive.com today. Progressive

16:39

Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. This

16:45

message comes from NPR sponsor, Progressive Insurance, where drivers who save

16:47

by switching save nearly $750 on average. Get

16:50

your quote at progressive.com and see if you could save. Progressive

16:54

Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National

16:57

average 12 month savings of $744 by new

16:59

customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between

17:03

June 2022 and May 2023. Potential

17:06

savings will vary. This election

17:08

season you can expect to hear a lot

17:10

of news, some of it meaningful, much of it not. Give

17:14

the Up First podcast 15 minutes, sometimes

17:16

a little less, and we'll help you sort it out.

17:19

What's going on around the world and at home. Three stories, 15 minutes,

17:21

Up First every day. Listen

17:24

to the news. Up First every day.

17:27

Listen every morning wherever you get your podcasts. One

17:31

of the states known as a

17:33

top agriculture producer in the nation

17:35

is also facing an increasing amount

17:37

of childhood hunger. In

17:39

Nebraska, almost one in five kids were

17:41

estimated to be food insecure in 2022.

17:45

That's up from just one in 10 the

17:47

year prior. The data is collected

17:50

by the nonprofit group Feeding America.

17:53

This spike in hungry children can be

17:55

attributed in part to a winding down

17:57

of pandemic relief programs that helped families.

18:00

families access healthy food. Yet

18:02

child hunger is something that the

18:04

federal government provides funds to help

18:06

mitigate, but this year, 14 Republican-led

18:09

states have rejected federal

18:11

money, largely due

18:13

to anti-welfare sentiment. Nebraska

18:16

is accepting federal money, and advocates

18:18

hope a new program there will

18:20

help offset some of the additional

18:22

food costs facing families. Megan

18:25

Harmon is a community organizer

18:27

for Food and Nutrition Access

18:29

with Nebraska Apple Seed, a

18:31

nonprofit that fought for Nebraska's participation

18:33

in the U.S. Department of Agriculture's

18:36

Summer Electronic Benefit Transfer Program for

18:38

Low Income Kids. Megan, welcome to

18:40

Here and Now. Thank

18:42

you. I'm glad to be here. I'd love

18:44

you to tell me about families there

18:47

in Nebraska. What

18:49

are you hearing about the challenges they're facing

18:51

when it comes to hunger? How bad is

18:53

the situation right now? Yeah,

18:56

I think we're seeing a significant

18:58

rise in the cost of groceries,

19:00

and a lot of families' wages

19:02

are not keeping pace with those

19:04

rising costs. I hear a

19:06

lot about how summers are some of the

19:08

hardest times of year for families when it

19:10

comes to their food budgets. I

19:12

would also say that the school meals program,

19:14

the school breakfast and school lunches that are

19:17

available during the school year, are one

19:20

of the most transformative interventions for

19:23

childhood hunger in our nation.

19:26

When we're looking at the summer

19:28

months and seeing kids who are

19:30

no longer able to access those

19:32

resources in a state like Nebraska

19:34

have very low participation

19:36

in the summer food service program,

19:38

which provides meal sites during the

19:41

summer to help cover that gap.

19:44

A program like summer EBT

19:46

becomes especially key to covering

19:48

that difference. And

19:51

EBT of course is the Electronic

19:53

Benefit Transfer Program. State

19:55

officials there in Nebraska expect that it'll

19:57

serve around $175,000. thousand

20:00

students while school is out for the summer. Tell us how

20:02

it works. Yeah,

20:05

so families will receive a summer

20:08

EBT card in the mail for

20:11

their school-aged children. This

20:13

card will have a hundred and twenty dollars

20:15

on it per child who is eligible in

20:17

the household. Families might

20:19

qualify because their kids are enrolled in

20:21

free or reduced price lunch at school. Their

20:24

family is already receiving SNAP benefits,

20:26

Medicaid or a few other

20:29

qualifying benefits programs or

20:32

a family can go through an application process

20:34

if they're at a school that already provides

20:36

free meals to all students. And

20:39

you know, I want to ask you about

20:41

what it was that you and other organizers

20:44

had to do to convince your elected officials,

20:47

particularly Nebraska's government, to reverse course

20:49

and accept this federal money because

20:51

as we mentioned, 14 Republican-led

20:53

states chose to opt out of

20:55

the summer EBT. Nebraska's

20:57

government was skeptical but changed his

20:59

mind after hearing stories from

21:02

high school students who are hungry. Can

21:05

you speak more about how you

21:07

and other organizers, what was

21:09

it that you did to help change the governor's

21:11

mind? Yeah, of

21:13

course. So we worked very

21:15

closely with a variety of community

21:17

members across the state to raise

21:20

awareness in the media and to

21:22

launch a petition that ultimately garnered

21:24

over 6,500 signatures

21:27

and gave really broad representation

21:29

from different Nebraska communities. So

21:31

when we saw the governor ultimately reverse his

21:34

decision, I think to me it really was

21:36

a testament to the broad

21:38

amount of community support that showed up

21:41

over and over again throughout this process

21:43

to reassert that this was

21:45

a need. And you know,

21:47

it's not just your state as

21:49

we mentioned, there are others where

21:51

Republican governors or leaders

21:53

in those states that seeing this

21:56

as a handout, in some

21:58

places there are technical challenges. the

22:00

program's implementation, but it really

22:02

seems a little bit like,

22:04

especially today as prices

22:06

are so high, do you

22:09

think this anti-welfare sentiment,

22:12

especially in an election year,

22:15

is going to carry water?

22:17

Because I would imagine hungry

22:20

children, that's not a partisan issue.

22:22

There will be as many hungry children and

22:24

families that might vote Republican as there are

22:26

in families that might vote Democrat. Yeah,

22:29

to me, it really comes down to

22:31

it's not a handout to give people

22:33

basic needs. Food is a basic need,

22:35

and feeding kids is such a common

22:37

sense thing. So our state

22:40

taking that on and recognizing that that's

22:42

an important thing to do is hopefully

22:45

something that other governors

22:48

across the nation will recognize as

22:50

an important thing to

22:52

do and a step that

22:54

they should be taking regardless of

22:56

partisan politics. Megan

22:59

Harmon is a community organizer for Food

23:01

and Nutrition Access with the nonprofit Nebraska

23:03

Purple Seed. Megan, thank you so

23:05

much. Thank you. Our

23:13

show comes to you thanks to the team

23:15

behind Here and Now from NPR

23:17

and WBUR Boston. Our

23:19

stories today are produced by Jill Ryan, Ashley

23:22

Locke and Gabrielle Healy. Our

23:24

editors are Todd Munt, V.K.

23:26

Alla Rodriguez, Michael Scotto and

23:28

Kat Welsh. Technical directors are

23:31

Mike Mosqueto and Caleb Green. Mike

23:33

Mosqueto, Max Liebman and Chris Bentley created

23:35

the theme music. Our digital

23:37

producers are Allison Hagan and Grace Griffin.

23:40

The executive producer of Here and Now

23:42

is Carleen Watson. I'm Shirley

23:45

Jihad. Thank you for being with us.

23:47

Be sure to subscribe and we'll see you

23:49

tomorrow. This

24:00

message comes from NPR sponsor,

24:02

Leesa. Good sleep should come

24:04

naturally, and with the new

24:06

Natural Hybrid mattress, it can.

24:08

A collaboration between Leesa and

24:10

West Elm, the Natural Hybrid

24:12

is expertly crafted from natural

24:14

latex, natural wool, and certified

24:17

safe foams to elevate your

24:19

sleep sanctuary and support a

24:21

greener tomorrow. Plus, every purchase

24:23

helps fuel Leesa's work with

24:25

shelters and those in need.

24:27

Visit leesa.com to learn more.

24:29

That's LEESA.None com. This

24:31

message comes from NPR sponsor Rosetta

24:33

Stone, an expert in language learning for 30

24:36

years. Right now,

24:38

NPR listeners can get Rosetta Stone's

24:40

lifetime membership to 25 different languages

24:42

for 50% off. Learn

24:45

more at rosettastone.com. In

24:50

this country, some truths aren't

24:52

self-evident. In NPR's Black

24:55

Stories, Black Truths, a collection of

24:57

stories as wide-ranging and real as

24:59

the people who tell them, we

25:02

celebrate the Black experience for

25:04

all its soul and richness. Search

25:07

NPR Black Stories, Black Truths

25:09

wherever you get podcasts.