0:00

This is Alec Baldwin, and you're

0:02

listening to Hear's the thing. What

0:05

follows may make for difficult

0:07

listening. New York Attorney

0:09

General Eric Schneiderman sat

0:11

down with me last Thursday, days

0:14

before news broke in the New Yorker

0:16

magazine that four women have

0:18

accused him of physical violence.

0:21

Schneiderman came to his high

0:23

office thanks to the left women's

0:26

groups in particular, and in our talk

0:29

you'll hear him return multiple times

0:31

to his record in support of women's

0:33

rights. Looking back on our

0:36

preparations with his office, there

0:38

were signs maybe something was amiss.

0:41

His communications director requested

0:43

surprisingly to us that we not mention

0:46

the Harvey Weinstein case or

0:48

hashtag me to, or the

0:51

Attorney General's past relationships.

0:54

It is a complicated thing listening

0:57

to a man I respect and

0:59

who has in fact done much to support

1:02

progressive causes over his twenty

1:04

five years in public service. But

1:06

we thought it was important to post

1:08

this now so the public has

1:11

access to what turns out to be Eric

1:13

Schneiderman's last long form interview

1:16

as Attorney General. I want

1:18

to just read from among the top elements

1:21

in your bio, we roll marveling on

1:24

the production staff here. The only

1:26

child grew up in the Upper West Side, father was born

1:28

in tenements. Became big shot

1:30

corporate defense lawyer, chairman of

1:32

City Opera. You graduated

1:34

from Trinity and seventy three and Amerston seventy

1:37

seven. Studied abroad in Hong

1:39

Kong, double major in English and Asian studies.

1:42

Eventually you graduated from Harvard

1:44

Law School in eighty two. When it is here

1:47

that you were the deputy sheriff of Pittsfield, Massachusetts,

1:49

from nineteen seventy seven nineteen seventy nine,

1:52

is that a fact? It is?

1:54

I was a deputy sheriff in Berkshire

1:56

County. I dropped in and out

1:58

of school a lot. When I was seventeen, I graduated

2:00

from high school and it was a year before Roe

2:03

V. Wade. Instead of going to college, I went I got

2:05

a job in an abortion clinic in Washington, d C.

2:07

Abortion was legal in DC, illegal in

2:09

the whole Southeast United States. No one thought role

2:11

was coming, and so at seventeen

2:14

I was going out to National Airport meeting women

2:16

flying in from states where they couldn't. What

2:18

do you think motivated you to do that at that age?

2:20

Why you

2:22

know, I mean I was seventeen.

2:25

It wasn't really that carefully thought

2:27

through. I you know,

2:30

I had some sort of office job

2:32

initially, and it was really boring. And

2:34

what did your parents say, you're

2:36

their only child. I was just gone. I mean I left

2:39

Toma, never went back, and I just had adventures.

2:41

There were people setting up clinics because they believed Washington

2:43

would be the only outpost for decades,

2:45

that women would have to come there from Georgia

2:47

and South Carolina and Tennessee, um

2:50

because no one thought role was coming, so people were setting

2:52

up clinics. I thought it sounded really interesting

2:54

and the people who were

2:56

doing it were really amazing people,

2:59

and so, you know, I just

3:02

had never really occurred to me that it was as

3:06

controversial as I later learned it was.

3:08

And it had a big impact on me. I

3:10

mean, it was seeing women essentially

3:12

fleeing oppression in their states, coming

3:15

in secret, arguing with the doctors

3:17

that had to go home before this medical staff thought

3:19

they were ready because they snuck out on their

3:21

families, their employers a lot of the times, their

3:23

husbands they don't want them to find out. So it's

3:25

just an amazing But when

3:27

you when you add that, it only puts

3:29

a finer point on what I'm saying, which

3:31

is you have a very eclectic path to

3:34

running for your first office. You you, you when you, when

3:37

you, when you go, you study abroad in Hong

3:39

Kong. This was under Amherst. I took

3:41

a year outside of Hong Kong while

3:43

I was in college, so abortion

3:45

clinic, gopher semester, drop out

3:48

again, go back for a semester. Meet

3:51

Bob Thurman, who was my Tibetan Buddhism

3:54

professor, and he inspired me to study Chinese.

3:57

This gravitation towards

3:59

Asian studies was that something in your home or

4:02

not really, I mean I just was there

4:05

like a leaf in the wind here it was now was

4:08

it was a time of big

4:10

ideas. I mean, this is the era of the

4:12

Ana Vietnam War movement, the civil rights movement.

4:15

I was in demonstrations when I was fourteen,

4:17

fifteen years old then in Washington, and

4:19

there was just a sense of tremendous possibility.

4:22

It's a time it's hard to explain to

4:24

people now and what I feel from the young people rising

4:27

up today, this is the first time

4:29

I felt that level of energy since then, that

4:31

this is this reminds me of the late sixties and

4:33

early seventies what we're seeing now. And

4:35

look, it was also a time of you know, rebellion.

4:38

We were all we grew our hairs along. We were you

4:40

know, we were

4:42

not really that interested

4:45

in what our parents thought. We thought they were squares and

4:47

we were going to change the world. Your first job in law

4:49

enforcement is as a deputy sheriff in Pittsfield.

4:51

This is many years before you become the Attorney General of

4:53

the many years and what

4:55

was that experience life was it? Was it

4:58

kind of lighthearted and not that

5:00

serious or was being a sheriff in Pittsfield

5:02

that have some It was

5:05

dangers, not

5:08

much. I mean it was really you know, most

5:10

of the folks in the jail were low level

5:12

offenders, it was, but it was a huge lesson

5:15

for me in you know, how

5:17

the people at the bottom of the system

5:20

function because these were mostly poor,

5:22

uneducated people who were

5:24

in and out of the system. So

5:26

yeah, and rural poor because back

5:28

then there was we had moonshine runners in the jail

5:31

from South South Berkshire County And

5:34

was one guy who had been born in jail when his mother was doing

5:36

time, and he and his brother were there,

5:39

and so it was really it

5:41

was a great lesson for me to see how the system

5:43

operates for the poor and

5:45

the uneducated. And before going to a place like

5:47

Harvard Law School, I think it's good to have a little dose to

5:49

that. You know, your father, it

5:52

was a big lawyer, corporate lawyer, and

5:54

he defended a lot of corporations, whether

5:57

they do good or bad, to influence

5:59

the you have now. Yeah, But then you know,

6:01

time went on and I got

6:04

older and got you know, I got

6:06

more appreciation for the

6:08

older generation and what they had done. And

6:11

he had the sense to step out of

6:13

the shark lawyer scene

6:16

with still a lot of years to live. And the

6:18

last twenty years of his life are really the best because

6:20

he just did the public interests

6:22

work he wanted w n y c. And was

6:24

on the board of Nayral Opera.

6:27

And so for him to have, having

6:30

grown up the way he did, to live to see his son

6:32

become the Attorney General in New York State, it was

6:34

quite a leap in life. So when you ran for the state

6:36

Senate, uh,

6:39

that was your first race. And

6:41

I remember you reading or

6:43

you had described me when I first ran into you back

6:45

in those days, um, and you were in

6:47

office, that it was it was a strangely

6:51

Jerrymander district. Correct, Well,

6:53

it got stranger after I was elected after

6:57

one term in the Senate. Uh.

7:00

I think I was regarded as such a pain in the neck

7:02

that the leaders of the Senate redrew

7:05

me into a sixty per Latino

7:07

district anchored in Washington Heights, knowing

7:09

that I had studied Chinese and college not Spanish. So

7:12

I've learned how to speak Spanish and

7:14

had just a tremendously rich experience

7:17

with the do you do good at

7:20

Bloomber Bloomberg Spanish? I don't have.

7:22

I don't have. He Spanish is not bad. His

7:25

accent is challenging, but Mike does

7:27

be pretty good Spanish. Um.

7:29

But you know, I learned Dominican Spanish, and

7:31

I bonded with a lot of the people in that community. Started

7:33

going to the Dominican Republic. Had all sorts

7:35

of interesting collateral consequences.

7:38

I discovered this lost Jewish community

7:41

and found the archives of

7:43

it. We're sitting in some storeroom

7:46

down in the northern part of the Dominican

7:48

Republic. Because and I learned

7:50

this history that I had never known that. In seven

7:53

um at the Big Avian Conference when they were

7:55

talking about Jews trying to get out of Europe, the

7:57

one country that said we'll take all of the ones, all

8:00

the Jews can get here was the Dominican Republican. That

8:02

was a history that really had been lost.

8:04

So we raised the money to bring send

8:06

the archives from the Museum of Jewish Heritage

8:08

down there and had a great exhibition.

8:11

And then someone wrote a musical Cults

8:13

Suo, which is the name of the community, with half Jewish

8:16

kids and half Dominican kids performing. So a

8:18

lot of great experiences

8:21

in my due district and with that community

8:23

to this day. You know, I consider

8:25

myself at Dominicano Autotivo. You know, you're

8:28

a New Yorker who lived several different

8:30

places during the course of your college years,

8:32

but you're a New Yorker born and

8:34

bred, and I'm wondering what it was like for you to

8:36

go when you arrived at Albany

8:38

to go to work. Well, I had,

8:40

I had. After I got out of law school,

8:43

I I clerked, and then I went into private practice

8:45

and was an associate and a partner in and

8:47

a big law firm. So I had, you

8:51

know, I went up there with that experience,

8:53

and Albany was not a

8:55

place that ran by any normal rules of business,

8:57

and it was always rated

9:00

by the Brennan Center and other uh,

9:03

others who studied it in good government groups.

9:06

Uh, you know, terrible in terms of transparency,

9:08

terrible letters of democracy. Really, it

9:11

was a fundament issure. It was a fundamentally anti

9:13

democratic place when I first got there. It has,

9:16

it has improved quite a bit, but

9:18

it's still got a long way to go in my my view.

9:20

But it was what holds it back from really growing

9:22

in the right direction. I think that, you

9:25

know, I think that there has been

9:27

a a long term attachment

9:29

to the status quo. People resist change,

9:32

and I think this year's election presents an opportunity

9:35

for some really fundamental change. We've already

9:37

had the whole series of

9:40

senior senators, State senators announcing

9:42

they're going to retire. I think you're going to see new

9:44

leadership there in a lot of quite a few

9:46

new people elected, and I think that's going

9:48

to provide the impetus for change. When

9:51

I got there, it was remarkable

9:53

because the leaders controlled everything. I

9:56

mean, it was really this the majority leader of

9:58

the State Senate. UH controlled whether

10:01

you had a big suite of offices in the top floor

10:03

of the legislative office building or you were in a basement.

10:06

And what they

10:08

controlled at dictatorial control over

10:10

what bills come to the floor. So groups would

10:12

come up and say, will you support this bill, will you know,

10:15

check the boxes on our checklist for environmental

10:18

concerns or healthcare concerns or

10:20

gun control. And it didn't

10:22

really make that. I realized after a while, didn't make any

10:24

difference. I was debating bills, trying

10:26

to change people's minds, and then I realized after

10:28

a few months, no bill ever comes to the floor and loses

10:31

it was all It was all staged

10:33

in the back room. Yeah, it felt like, you know, I was

10:35

in one of those phony governments in the Eastern

10:37

European Block where you pretend you're the parliament,

10:40

but the polit bureau is making the decisions

10:42

behind the scenes. That's what all many was like when

10:44

I got there. The State Senate term is how long is it four

10:46

years? Two years? The State Senate term is two years,

10:48

and the Assembly term as two years too. I thought it was too sorry,

10:51

I thought it was two and four, uh not

10:53

two and six like the federal So it's a two year

10:55

term for the and you served how many terms? I

10:57

was there from night and then I ran we

11:00

got elected ninety so from

11:02

uh my last term, and

11:04

then I ran for a G. You were you were? You were in the state Senate

11:07

when you're refrag what's the political chess

11:09

board looked like them? When you're going to run for a G? Who

11:11

was a G and was leaving? And why Cuomo

11:13

was the a G? And he was leaving because of

11:16

the bizarre circumstances of

11:18

Elliot Spitzer becoming governor with overwhelming

11:21

popularity and not lasting very

11:23

long, and then David Patterson lasting

11:26

a little bit longer. But I had

11:28

certainly not expected the Attorney General's office

11:30

to be open in but it

11:32

opened up, and uh, well,

11:34

what did you say to yourself? Well, I

11:36

had I had a seat in the

11:38

Senate. The Democrats were in the majority

11:40

of that term and would end being in the Senate,

11:43

and the majority is a nice secure

11:45

gig. But I at that point I really

11:47

had. You know, I've been through everything

11:50

in the Senate. I'd run the Senate Campaign Committee. I've

11:52

been the floor leader for the Democrats, which was fun.

11:54

Because we never got the

11:57

bills till like an hour before session, so it was like

11:59

doing improv. Was just you know, debating bills

12:01

with while I was learning about the laws.

12:03

More so than any other bodies, legislative

12:06

bodies are very much about seniority and

12:08

about people developing relationships.

12:11

A system. It's a system. It is a system

12:13

and a lot and people get Uh.

12:16

Most people want to fit in in the environment

12:18

where you know they are at work.

12:20

And people wanted to fit in, and you

12:22

got a lot of I gotta When I was, I

12:25

said, come from you know, the private sector,

12:27

and I it was less patient

12:30

with the old ways than a lot of people. A

12:32

lot of folks said, no, you gotta try and get along. You gotta

12:35

gotta get along and settled down and that kind

12:37

of thing. And it just wasn't me. So uh,

12:40

I was ready to try something different and it was

12:42

given up a very nice safe

12:44

gig to take a shot at something. And

12:47

they were and my first campaign

12:49

was in retrospect, a terrific campaign.

12:51

And people, how does that process begin? Meaning

12:53

like who do you call on the phone? Who do you contact

12:56

and say I want to run for a g Well,

12:58

how do you launch that process you contact

13:00

who. There wasn't a very strong sense

13:02

of the state party managing

13:04

things at that point in history. There were a bunch

13:06

of people who stepped up to run open

13:09

seat, surprise, open seat, and it

13:11

was it was it was really a primary

13:13

and the primary was a good campaign. We had smart

13:16

lawyers. Uh we had lots

13:18

of debates. So not somebody you call because New

13:20

York State is so insular that way. Now there really

13:23

there really wasn't as a

13:25

boss at that point in time. Well, I would talk to people, and

13:27

you know, I had relationships with folks who influence

13:29

you to make that decision. Well, a lot of the different

13:32

progressive groups that I had worked with over

13:34

the years. UM I had been

13:36

on the board of Citizen Action in New York and

13:39

Citizen Action and there that whole

13:41

network constituency influence. Sure

13:43

and I had and I had strong relationships

13:46

with folks in the pro choice movement, LGBT

13:48

equality movement, and uh

13:51

I talked to people about the potential for the Attorney

13:53

General's office and what I could do. I had

13:56

done a lot of legal work.

13:58

I had when uh I was back

14:01

in private practice. Sometimes like to say,

14:03

the money making face of my career ended when they

14:05

made me the pro bono partner of the law firm

14:07

and I started. I realized how much more I like

14:09

public interest work. So I've been the lawyer for

14:11

niperg Straphangers campaign I had done.

14:14

Uh, you know, I've been around

14:16

in this sort of network of progressive activists

14:19

and I had a basic support there. Yeah, and

14:21

and I got a lot of encouragement

14:23

and my colleagues and some of my colleagues

14:25

in the Senate stepped up and really were very

14:28

supportive, and that gave me the ability

14:30

to make connections in other parts of

14:32

the state. So it's uh. The

14:35

campaign was launched and it was wild.

14:37

But I must say, who was your competitor?

14:39

Uh, well, Kathleen Rice, who's now in Congress

14:42

with the district attorney in Nasa County at

14:44

the time, Richard Brodsky, an assembly member

14:46

run ran a couple

14:48

of good lawyers in private

14:50

practice, And compared to every

14:52

other campaign I've been in, it was

14:55

certainly the most stimulating and challenging.

14:57

The debates were great. People would remember say,

15:00

you know, and the last time we debated, you said

15:02

this about the Securities Fraud Act. And then

15:04

people would continue the conversations. So

15:06

it was terrific that I won. I won

15:08

the primary, and then the general election reverted

15:11

to more typical American politics,

15:13

which we didn't have much in the way of debates,

15:16

and the Republican Republican opponent

15:18

and who was the most Dan Donovan now congressman

15:21

sort of attorney general. Did you want to be compared

15:23

to your predecessors? Yeah, The New York City

15:25

Train General's Office is and has

15:27

been for years before I even got

15:29

there. You know, one of the most extraordinary

15:32

public law firms in the country, and really

15:34

going back to Louis Leftwitz and Bob Abrams

15:36

it it really emerged as a pre eminent

15:39

advocate for consumers, for

15:41

protecting the most vulnerable

15:43

among us, and an impressive

15:45

tradition up through Spitzer and Cuomo and and

15:47

you know, making law and showing leadership.

15:50

So I took over an office that

15:52

had a good tradition. And but what was someone

15:54

doing that you wanted that you didn't think they should be

15:56

doing it? What were they not doing they should be doing?

15:58

What were the sins of oe and comission?

16:01

How did you want to change the office? Well,

16:03

I mean, I having spent

16:06

more time than my predecessors in

16:08

private practice. I really wanted to

16:10

use the lessons I had from the

16:12

private sector. I wanted to have the best public

16:14

law firm in the country. I wanted to make sure that we had

16:18

we improved training, that we

16:20

tore down the silos between different bureaus

16:22

and established a really

16:26

productive, aggressive, but collegial atmosphere.

16:29

And it's just been an amazing experience building it up

16:32

because you know, this great

16:34

funny conversation with with Andrew, who's going

16:37

to become governor, and said, well, I'm not gonna take

16:40

everybody from here, because you know, I

16:42

Elliott brought all these prosecutors and thought prosecutors

16:45

could run everything. And then he got to Albany and realized there

16:47

was nobody there and a lot of the agency. So he

16:49

came back and took a lot more people. And

16:51

at first that was a problem because

16:53

we, you know, we had to staff up quickly. It's really

16:55

remarkable in the government the

16:57

United States. You get elected in November, then

17:00

you have six weeks including

17:02

Thanksgiving and Christmas, to hire all these

17:04

people you've never met, and then you entrust your career

17:06

to them. Former New York

17:09

Attorney General Eric Schneiderman. Coming

17:12

up, we talk about hashtag me too

17:15

and New York state politics. With

17:17

his resignation, new York loses

17:20

a Democratic Party leader. Schneiderman

17:23

understood before most members of his party

17:25

the importance of state politics

17:28

and its relationship to federal politics.

17:33

This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening

17:36

to Here's the thing now.

17:38

More from my conversation last

17:40

Thursday with former New York

17:42

Attorney General Eric Schneiderman.

17:45

Do you think that the friction

17:47

between Cuomo and do Blasio is

17:49

hurting either the state government or particularly

17:51

the city government. I don't know how

17:54

much it's it's hurting. I think that, you

17:56

know, I try to work with everybody,

17:59

and you know, I think it's more productive to try

18:01

and get along and find common ground, and

18:03

uh so, you know, I encourage

18:05

I encourage everyone to do that. You don't

18:08

think it's hurt in the city, you know

18:10

it, It maybe in some

18:12

let's put it. Let's put it this way. I think it would

18:14

probably be better for everyone to try

18:16

and work together and find whatever common ground

18:19

we can, because quite honestly, we're in a moment

18:21

of history where the biggest challenge

18:23

we face from the federal government and so

18:26

um, you know, it's a good time to be putting

18:29

aside other

18:31

more parochial issues. And

18:33

there are people banding together remarkably.

18:37

Uh, some folks who might disagree on a lot of

18:39

things, but understand the level of threat we're under

18:41

to our constitutional structure and the rule

18:43

of law. And we have I'm

18:46

very proud of the work that we've

18:48

done assembling a coalition

18:50

to really form the core of the legal resistance to bad

18:53

public policies that spew

18:55

out of Washington. Once the update on the estate

18:57

on the writing off your state income taxes, what's the update

18:59

on Well, we've we've they've

19:01

passed some laws in all many to

19:03

create some workarounds. They will be challenged

19:06

and we'll we'll see where they

19:09

will be will or they'll be challenged by some

19:11

you know, taxpayer group or something, and I'll defend

19:14

defending them in court. Uh. Look, that's

19:16

the The tax bill was

19:19

a dagger in the

19:21

back of New York State and other

19:23

states, states and other states, and we

19:26

have to deal with it. Yeah. Look, it's it's

19:28

it's an important thing to understand the context

19:31

we're in. We're in a historical moment where

19:34

their efforts underway to undermine

19:37

a lot of the basic components

19:40

in my view of our constitutional structure,

19:43

and this is a test of our the

19:45

federalist constitutional fabric we have. State

19:48

and local governments have tremendous

19:50

power reserved to them under our

19:53

constitutional system. And this is a time

19:55

when you're seeing it's an ear of what I

19:57

call progressive federalism, where you're seeing states

20:00

eyes up. And in my view, the coalition

20:02

of state attorneys general that I'm

20:04

a part of is more of more

20:06

of an effective check on access

20:08

as the administration than the Democrats

20:11

in Congress. They try to do what they can, but they're in the minority.

20:13

I hope they'll be in the majority.

20:15

But over the last year and a half, my

20:18

office and other attorneys general's office is really emerged

20:21

as a bulwark of our

20:23

constitutional structure against bad

20:26

public policies that spew out of Washington like

20:28

to breede from some toxic volcano. Is

20:30

it time in your mind having lived in New York

20:32

and you're in New York, but you worked in Albany for the

20:34

state to give back control of the city to the

20:36

city. By and large, the city

20:39

runs itself. But it's important to understand, and

20:41

this is really important to understanding the Trump era for

20:43

everyone to get the basic unit

20:45

of the United States of America is and has

20:47

always been the state. The states created

20:49

the federal government, States create local governments.

20:52

Every state in the Union has

20:54

ultimate power over local governments

20:57

and that is something

20:59

that can of it has figured out a long time

21:01

ago and invested a tremendous

21:03

amount in taking over state governments.

21:05

As of the election, Republicans

21:08

control thirty four of the fifty governorships,

21:10

sixty nine and the nine nine state legislative

21:13

chambers, and that gave them

21:15

a huge advantage, which I think was

21:17

a factor that people do not paid

21:20

enough attention to in the

21:22

loss in the Trump Clinton election. States

21:25

control who votes. A dozen states passed

21:27

voter suppression laws between fourteen

21:29

that cost Hillary Clinton many more votes.

21:33

And I think that there were in a period now districting,

21:36

they control reapportionment, they and

21:39

so, and state

21:41

legislatures are the bench for Congress,

21:43

so it's there's a tremendous advantage there. Now, I feel

21:45

that there is a transformation going on in

21:48

among the electorate. People are getting more active and

21:50

people are focusing in more on state issues.

21:52

I mean, we had a special election in a swing state Senate

21:55

seat April four in Westchester,

21:58

and they had thousands of volunteers us to

22:00

run santy campaigns we never had. We didn't have hundreds

22:02

of volunteers, much less thousands of volunteers. So

22:04

I feel that we're in a time where there's

22:07

a political movement rising up. And this is

22:09

the first time since I was a kid. As I said that,

22:11

I felt the level of energy we had in the late

22:13

sixties and early seventies, and I think it's

22:15

a great thing for the country. But the fight is going

22:17

to really be much more at the state level.

22:20

Um that we will fight to control

22:22

Congress, but the real battle is taking

22:24

back state governments of the governor

22:26

has given this mayor of the autonomy that he wants,

22:29

not always, but but you know, if you look

22:31

at it, there really are not that many major

22:33

points of contention. I think it

22:35

gets it gets a lot of attention because

22:37

of the press. Sense is the sort of personal

22:40

animosity, But in terms of public policy,

22:43

people work together as

22:46

day to day people work together

22:48

a lot more than than

22:51

many things. Yeah, you,

22:53

in my lifetime, one

22:56

of the things that was always among

22:58

the headline grabbing activities

23:01

of the States Attorney Attorney General

23:03

was fighting organized crime, and

23:05

I'm wondering, is organized

23:08

crime pretty much dead in New York now? Is the

23:10

mafia gone? Well, no, there's

23:12

still organized crime, and we have an organized crime

23:14

task Force that works with mostly

23:16

with smaller jurisdictions where they don't have the resources

23:18

to deal with it. There are a lot of different

23:21

It's much more diffuse than it was. You don't have the

23:23

old style five families controlling

23:26

everything going on anymore. But you have a lot

23:28

of gangs and a lot

23:30

of multi ethnic gangs, different different

23:33

you know. The issues that we deal with now are things

23:35

like drug trafficking and gun trafficking.

23:38

We have done more work

23:40

on issues related to guns in the office has ever

23:42

done in the past. But yeah, they're still gang activity.

23:45

It's not like the old the old Godfather.

23:49

Yeah, and that that I understand.

23:51

I mean, an obvious subject to talk about in

23:53

a city like New York. But I was told there's

23:56

a kind of kind of an embargo on this for you about

23:58

talking about the me too. You've had for enough to talk about

24:00

that subject, correct. We have an investigation

24:03

into the Weinstein companies that are involved

24:05

with a variety

24:07

of matters related to that, so you

24:10

can't touch on that. I mean, look, the movement is extraordinary.

24:14

I think it's changing the conversation. It

24:16

is a part of what I see

24:18

is this moment of social

24:21

transformation and of the emergence

24:23

of a new political movement. But it's,

24:25

uh, you know, that's a whole other podcast.

24:28

Do you think that the an

24:31

noown's been by Cynthia Nixon that she's going to run?

24:33

I mean, many many people feel that a lot of women are

24:35

coming to the fork because this is at the time that

24:38

there's always been a relatively low

24:40

percentage of people running for office who are women.

24:42

I mean, comparatively speaking, it's it's it's improved over

24:44

the years, but people really feel that now as

24:47

a uniquely special time. I

24:50

mean, I know Cynthia, I've worked with

24:52

Cynthia. If you work in this business, you

24:54

worship Cynthia as one of the most talented actress

24:57

is alive. I mean, she really is this

24:59

phenomen the talented woman to such

25:01

integrity and honesty just as

25:04

an actress. I just have to say that she's just so remarkable.

25:06

But most people agree in

25:08

the Money Talks realm,

25:10

he's so loaded with money. Uh

25:13

does that alone? You know, this is a very quixotic

25:16

thing for her. Why do you think she would do that? I

25:19

don't know. I do think that we're

25:21

seeing a lot more new people running for office

25:24

than we have seen before. I think that it's on traditional

25:26

people, nontraditional people who haven't worked their

25:28

way up through the political system. I mean,

25:30

in some places we have some congressional

25:33

districts where we haven't. Honestly, it

25:35

seems like we have too many candidates Democrats

25:37

who all want to run from some extraordinary

25:40

backgrounds. But I think it's a part of

25:42

this change. I have look,

25:44

I worked for years to try and get people involved

25:47

in politics. When I was in the State Senate with

25:50

overwhelmingly democratic state Republicans still

25:52

held the majority, I tried to get major

25:54

national Democratic donors to help us out. No

25:56

one was interested in the state Senate, and

25:59

that has transfer formed since Trump got

26:01

elected. I feel that this was what it took

26:03

to get people awake off

26:05

the sidelines, energized the

26:08

proliferation of all these hundreds

26:10

of indivisible groups all over New York State. I meet

26:12

with them and other organizations, and

26:14

the all of this new infrastructure

26:17

that has risen up in the last year and a half is

26:19

phenomenal, and it is we are starting

26:22

to get to the point where we can actually compete with the Conservatives.

26:24

And there amazing

26:26

infrastructure they built over thirty years. They

26:28

invest first in infrastructure. They will make

26:31

sure the American political

26:33

infrastructure that Harry's Foundation, the American

26:35

no political infrastructure, that's right, the

26:38

American Enterprise Institute, Competitive Enterprise

26:40

Institute. They've created this great infrastructure. We

26:42

now see in a very different way because

26:44

it's much more decentralized. The

26:47

emergence of a political

26:49

infrastructure that can counterbalance that. And people

26:51

are interested in running for office, people

26:53

in supporting candidates for office again.

26:56

State Senate special election April. Democrats

27:00

didn't used to even show up for special elections. Thousands

27:03

of volunteers and and I wipe out

27:05

victory. So I think, who's the head

27:07

of the state party now, Well, the

27:09

governors are ahead of the state party. There were a chairman

27:11

of there's no persons, yes Byron Brown. The

27:13

micro buffalo is a chair of Judy

27:15

Hope. I worked with Judy Hope and she was running when she was when

27:18

she was the chair to get Chuck elected to get Hillo reelected,

27:20

and and look, it's it's a fascinating

27:23

time. And increasingly, you know, I'm

27:25

doing work for candidates from other states and helping

27:28

speaking at fundraisers in New York for candidates from

27:30

other states. A lot more interest in

27:32

state races than there ever was. We got terrific

27:34

people running for attorney general and states around

27:36

the country, and special initiative as

27:38

you just relating to what you just said, Um

27:41

of the Democratic Attorney General's Association to

27:43

recruit more women to run. So

27:46

I think that there is there's

27:48

a lot of energy out there, a lot of desire

27:51

to have non traditional candidates run for

27:53

office, and it's a good thing. I want to just do

27:55

a couple of quick ones and try to get a quick answer to these.

27:57

Is there anything you think can be done? Is is there something

27:59

you guys are working on now that can affect the homeless issue

28:02

here in the city, Because you do well public

28:04

policy that way, don't you. We do because

28:06

we have a Tenant

28:08

Protection Task Force and one of the things we

28:11

are working on, and this is in conjunction with both the city

28:13

and state agency all working together to

28:15

try and ensure that housing is supposed

28:17

to be affordable, rent regulated is

28:20

maintained and that there there are

28:22

not unscrupulous landlords trying

28:24

to gain the system force people out of their homes so

28:26

they can take take apartments

28:28

out of rent regulated status.

28:30

So preserving affordable housing is an ongoing

28:33

struggle because the upside is so huge,

28:36

the difference now between a

28:38

rent regulated apartment and if you can get it out

28:40

into the free market. It creates a

28:42

strong incentive for an unscrupulous landlord

28:44

to do that. But I think you can see a lot of

28:47

different federal and state actors, including

28:49

our office, engaged in the project.

28:51

One of the challenges we face now like is that

28:54

with the federal government in

28:56

the hands of people who are

28:58

committed to a very radical

29:01

form of conservatism, you're not going to see

29:03

big housing programs or big transportation

29:05

programs coming out of the federal

29:07

government. So the challenge again falls

29:10

to those of us at the state level more and more

29:12

to fill that gap. We say

29:14

in my office often that our three tasks

29:17

in the Trump era are to fill in where

29:19

the federal government falls back if they won't enforce

29:21

not sitting around waiting for Jeff Sessions to start enforcing

29:23

civil rights laws, we enforce civil rights

29:26

right, we fill in where they fall back.

29:28

We fight back when the federal

29:30

government is attacking the people we represent, whether it's

29:32

sanctuary cities or withdrawing protections

29:35

from LGBT students, failure to enforce

29:37

environmental laws, and tided efforts

29:39

by Pruitt and a company to dial back environmentalism.

29:42

We sued them. The Times did the story in

29:44

December, marking my one legal action

29:47

against the administration, and

29:49

we're way past that by now. And we are joined

29:51

by other attorneys general,

29:53

lawyers for local governments, public interest lawyers,

29:56

lawyal firms doing pro bona work. Law schools

29:59

are sending us their students. The legal resistance

30:01

that is developed over last

30:03

year and a half is something I'm very proud of. What

30:05

what with that? The third one you were saying and

30:07

the third the third one fill in fight

30:10

back, and the third one is we have to show the way to

30:12

move ahead. We can't just be against

30:14

something and smart progressive

30:16

governance is going to be modeled at the state

30:19

level, So models for reforming

30:21

the criminal justice system are going to happen at the state

30:23

Level's mass incarceration an issue for you,

30:26

It's a huge issue. For me, since I

30:28

worked in the prison between college and law school,

30:30

I've been and I watched. Uh.

30:33

You know, let's go from a country with maybe

30:35

three or four hundred thousand people in jails

30:37

and prisons all over the America to have two

30:39

point five million a decade or so ago.

30:42

And now the tide is

30:44

turning very dramatically, and in

30:46

New York we are bringing our prison population

30:48

down while the crime rate goes down. That's

30:51

the future. This is a failed act, is

30:54

a failed national experiment in mass incarceration.

30:56

It doesn't make us safer, and I

30:59

think that people are waking up to that. Most

31:01

Americans think there are too many people in prison. Now. Whatever

31:04

the Conservatives push on this issue,

31:06

I think they're losing that war. Three quick

31:08

bullet points. One is now that I have the

31:10

Attorney General of the State of New York here explained.

31:12

Does Trump have a pardon power over people convicted

31:15

of state crimes and state courts? Uh?

31:17

No, the president can pardon for

31:20

federal offenses. Uh. You

31:22

can't pardon for state crimes. But because

31:24

New York has a the

31:27

most restrictive double

31:29

jeopardy statute in the country, that means that

31:32

if someone gets to the eve

31:34

of trial and the President pardons them. Under

31:36

New York's statute, we would not be able

31:38

to go after them for a state. We

31:42

have proposed to uh modify

31:44

the double jeopardy statute has been modified quite

31:46

a few times in the past to enable

31:48

us to pursue people who we don't want

31:50

to interfere with the regular presidential

31:53

clemency importance that come usually

31:55

after someone has served a lot of time in prison. But

31:57

were we are concerned that we should change the statu

32:00

you to prevent essentially preemptive partons,

32:02

partons where someone doesn't ever serve

32:04

a day in jail. So it doesn't serve a day in

32:06

jail, but it gets often because

32:08

of the way that our statute operates.

32:11

It functionally gives Trump the ability to

32:13

block state prosecutions as well as federal

32:15

prosecutions, and that's something that we're out to change.

32:17

So we've got legislation in the Assembly and

32:19

the Senate, we've got sponsors, and we're

32:21

moving aggressively to try and get that

32:24

past the session. You've got a myriad

32:26

of responsibility. You've got such a complex job.

32:29

What are there ever time that material comes across your

32:31

desk, A case and issue something that

32:33

really moves you, that really is important

32:36

to you. And I called it the moment where you turn to your

32:38

office, close the door and you like sit

32:40

there with a file and to start reading

32:42

and reading and just immerse yourself in something

32:44

is deeply personal to you. What

32:47

would be an example of that, you would site, Oh

32:50

yeah, what issue? There are cases that

32:52

that come our way that where

32:55

the facts are really devastating.

32:58

And you know, look some of these UH

33:01

cases that we take on and my capacity as

33:03

a special prosecutor when UH un

33:06

armed civilians die in contact with

33:08

police officers. A lot of these cases are

33:10

tragedies. Whether the cops did

33:12

anything wrong or not. There are people who didn't

33:15

it didn't deserve to die. And

33:18

and most of the circumstances reflect

33:21

poverty, often drug

33:24

and alcohol abuse. Just again reminding me

33:26

of my days back in the jail. But there

33:28

are a lot of people living in really tragic

33:30

circumstances. Cases that relate to

33:33

UH children UH move

33:35

me deeply when we get cases where you

33:37

have UH child

33:40

abuse, we have trafficking cases. I

33:42

have to say that the our our inquiry

33:45

into what happened at the Weinstein companies was

33:47

like taking a taking

33:49

a swim in a sewer, and we still

33:52

that's still an ongoing matter. So there are cases

33:54

that get to me personally and affect me. I

33:56

think the the nice thing about

33:59

this work is very

34:01

often we have a lot of creative lawyers

34:03

working for me and incredibly proud of our team.

34:06

We can think of ways to address issues that

34:08

sometimes allude to others. We try and

34:10

be as creative as possible. That means

34:13

sometimes like we take on cases that are

34:15

hard to win. But I'm

34:17

not someone who is a prosecutor looks

34:19

to have a batting average. We're willing

34:21

to try some things that are that are harder in order

34:23

to do justice. But we're the oversight board

34:25

or whatever it is. The oversight group here in New

34:28

York with the police Department announced that they want to try

34:30

to have more transparency

34:32

and hass been this back and forth with them. Uh,

34:35

what influence does the State Attorney

34:38

General operation have on the

34:40

Police Department of the City of New York. There's is no

34:43

way you can affect that the

34:45

city agents get in there with everything

34:48

that in terms of contracts and everything

34:50

has worked out to a fairly well with the police in terms

34:52

of what they're what they're expected

34:54

to do and not do in terms of transparency. Yeah,

34:56

I mean that's not really something that's in our wheelhouse.

34:59

We have to leave that to the city. Yeah, we do,

35:01

and we work with the NYPD

35:03

a lot. We deal with them

35:06

in our Organized Crime Task Force and others. We're working

35:08

with them on gun issues and other

35:10

things. And it's and as as law

35:12

enforcement agencies go in the United States, it's an incredible

35:15

agency. But you know, they're always struggles

35:17

about, uh, the need for

35:19

transparency. And I think

35:21

we've made a lot of tremendous progress. I'm keeping in mind

35:24

we cut stops in first by in

35:27

New York City and crime continues to go down.

35:29

I mean this is this is the safest big

35:32

city in America. And that reflects a lot of good work

35:34

by a lot of people for many years. I'm told

35:36

that there's steam coming out of the ears of your

35:38

staff, your chief of staff here. But I'm assuming

35:40

that in order for you to move elsewhere to the

35:42

next place, to have your public

35:45

service destiny, something has

35:47

to happen to somebody else. There's

35:50

only three statewide jobs and make sense for

35:52

you, Is it's safe to say that? And no,

35:54

look, I think people happy to stay where you are for

35:56

the time being. Yeah, I mean, I'm running for re election now

35:58

and after that spect to run a

36:01

great campaign, moving around the state and helping

36:03

down ballot races. And then look,

36:06

I'm I'm very much committed to continuing

36:08

to build and lead the legal resistance to what's

36:10

going on in Washington. I'm very

36:12

inspired to be a state actor in the seri of progressive

36:16

and for the next couple of years and then, uh,

36:18

we'll see what happens. I'm I want

36:21

to get us through this four years of

36:23

Trump and Pence and then uh, and

36:25

then at that point, I'm really playing

36:27

with house money. We've got to get through this period

36:30

of national trauma and I can play a

36:32

role. It's beyond anything I ever would

36:35

have expected, and h I'm pleased

36:37

to be doing it. We will never

36:39

know what kind of impact Eric Schneiderman

36:41

could have had on the elections.

36:45

His resignation from his post as

36:47

New York Attorney General is effective as

36:50

of five pm today, Tuesday

36:53

May eight. This is Alec

36:55

Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's

36:57

the thing