0:02

This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening

0:04

to Here's the Thing from iHeart

0:07

Radio. My guest Today

0:09

is a photojournalist whose five

0:11

decades of work have truly

0:14

run the gamut, covering politics,

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sports, travel, music, and

0:18

entertainment. His wide ranging

0:21

career includes conflict

0:23

of journalism, celebrity portraiture,

0:25

and travel photography. It's

0:28

Brooklyn's Own Brian hammil

0:30

hammil rose to prominence as

0:33

the on set still photographer for movies

0:35

like Annie Hall, Raging Bull,

0:37

Manhattan, Tutsi, Bullets Over

0:39

Broadway, and You've Got Mail. The list

0:42

goes on and on. He has photographed

0:45

the most famous personalities of our

0:47

time, from Mohammad Ali to

0:49

Frank Sinatra and Barbara streisand

0:52

he's even captured some of the most

0:54

iconic images ever taken of John

0:57

Lennon and Yoko Ono, which were

0:59

compiled in to his recent book Dream

1:01

Lovers, John and Yoko in

1:03

New York City. Brian Hamil

1:06

is a lifelong New Yorker who

1:08

comes from an incredibly talented stock

1:11

He's the child of Irish immigrants,

1:13

one of seven. His brothers, Dennis

1:15

and the late Pete Hamil, both became

1:17

acclaimed columnists journalists,

1:19

authors, and screenwriters. Hamil

1:22

and I have been friends for decades. I

1:24

began our conversation by sharing

1:26

one of my favorite memories of

1:29

him. There's a

1:31

story I tell I want to take

1:33

a woman on a date, and I want to go to have dinner

1:35

with you. And you go, and I'll never forget this. You go,

1:37

what day of the week is the date? I go, what's

1:39

on a Monday? And you go, Monday, Monday,

1:42

Monday. You'll take her to this restaurant

1:45

I think maybe like Eel Tray mayor Lee or

1:47

some Italian place in the Vos. And then after

1:49

that, you said, go to Tayo Mina for dessert.

1:52

And I go, really, I mean, you were that specific.

1:54

I said, why you go?

1:55

Because God he comes there for coffee every Monday

1:57

night after Monday evening at like ten o'clock. And

2:00

my mouth fell open. So I take

2:02

the girl to the restaurant, We have dinner, then

2:05

we walk down the block, we go down Houston, we

2:07

go to Tayo Mina and we're sitting

2:09

there. It's us and another couple. Eventually,

2:12

I hit a Tayomna many times, but

2:14

you turned me onto it, and sure enough the

2:17

car pulls up, four guys get out,

2:19

they look around, they walk in, they

2:21

look around, they snap their fingers. The other

2:23

car pulls up. The guys get out,

2:25

you know, like but eventually twelve fourteen guys

2:28

get out with gotty and they come in there and sit down at

2:30

these tables and have coffee

2:32

and pastry.

2:33

You know.

2:33

And you were the one that said to me, I

2:36

know, I got it. Now.

2:38

You are, of course renowned,

2:42

legendary in one area.

2:44

But what I want to talk about first is your

2:46

family. And all

2:49

three are you and your two brothers? You

2:51

only have the two brothers, You had other brothers as well.

2:53

Well, there was six boys, one or seven

2:56

kids.

2:57

What kind of childhood did you have? What kind

2:59

of work did your dad do? What kind of a home

3:01

did you have? Were you going to become probably

3:04

the most famous still photographer in the

3:06

business. Then your brother goes

3:08

on to become a reporter for the Daily News,

3:10

big paper. And your brother, Pete is Pete. He's

3:12

this legendary novelist, this legendary writer.

3:15

What kind of household did you grow up in?

3:17

We were lower

3:19

middle class, no money,

3:22

seven kids, Parkslope,

3:24

Brooklyn, back when it was a

3:27

rough and tumble neighborhood. Now

3:29

it's a yupper Fid neighborhood. Yeah,

3:32

there were seven kids in two bedrooms.

3:34

We were poor, but we weren't

3:36

impoverished. We had We had a

3:38

richness because my mom

3:41

and dad. Even though my dad

3:43

was a drinker, my mother what do you do for a living?

3:45

He worked as an electrical wire

3:49

which put fixtures in lights.

3:51

Sure he was head of trade, Yeah, and it

3:53

was.

3:53

He was in Local three. I

3:55

didn't realize how poor I was until I

3:58

went away to college up in Rochester lri

4:00

T Rochester Institute of Technology

4:03

Grade School, and

4:05

I met people from all

4:08

over the country who had money and

4:12

we had a struggle. I had to work up there

4:14

in Rochester at a drug store,

4:16

at a you know, as a cashier just

4:19

to make the dough. And I had to take student

4:21

loans, of course.

4:23

So when you're growing up and

4:25

it's tough you talk about describing, I

4:27

mean I had a similar situation in my

4:29

family. We had a two bedroom apartment and

4:31

by the time we left in nineteen sixty six sixty

4:34

seven, and we had six kids, we

4:37

had my older sister and

4:40

three boys on bunk beds. She

4:42

slept in the same room with us, so I'm

4:44

very familiar when you're living

4:47

arrangements, you know.

4:48

One bathroom.

4:49

I mean this insanity, but my

4:51

point is when did you first hold

4:54

a camera?

4:54

And people didn't have cameras back then they

4:56

were expensive.

4:57

I first held the camera in nineteen six

5:00

where who had a camera. It was a little

5:03

brownie camera that either my sister

5:05

got us, my sister Kathleen. But

5:07

I took pictures of my my homeboys,

5:10

all my friends hanging at them park benches.

5:13

And when I showed them to Pete, he said, hey,

5:15

is it good? You want to think about being

5:19

a photographer. And Pete was

5:21

an art director then for a Greek

5:23

magazine called Atlantis. You

5:26

know, because he was an artist, he had gone to Pratt.

5:29

That's where he met Redford. At Pratt, he

5:32

read for my buddies. So he

5:35

actually ended up buying my first

5:37

good camera, which was like one

5:39

hundred dollars camera called Miranda.

5:42

Then of course all the rich kids at RIT

5:44

had nikons. So eventually

5:47

I put together enough bread to get an icon.

5:50

And RIT was just a

5:52

great school.

5:53

Did you stay there and graduate from arit?

5:55

No? After two years I

5:58

couldn't afford the tuition for the third year

6:01

with none of us had. You know, I took the

6:03

student loans. So I said,

6:05

well, what I'll do is I'll take off for a

6:07

year and come back. But

6:09

in that year that I took off, I got

6:12

drafted and I had to win the army.

6:14

So I was in the army from sixty six to

6:16

sixty eight.

6:17

And where'd you go? Actually?

6:19

I ended up going to Fort

6:22

twelve Wall, Virginia, which

6:24

is right outside of DC. I

6:27

did volunteer to go to Vietnam

6:30

because I wanted to shoot photographs.

6:34

I said, let me cover the war, you know. But

6:37

my kid brother John, mayhe

6:39

rest in peace. He joined

6:42

the army when he was seventeen, became

6:45

a paratrooper one hundred and seventy third airborn,

6:48

and went to Vietnam. So when I

6:51

volunteered, because he joined before I

6:54

got drafted, I put in the

6:56

orders to transfer everything and

6:58

I went before the colonel in

7:01

the section I was in, and

7:03

he said, why do you want to go to Vietnam. I said, I'm a

7:05

photographer. I was in RI

7:07

two and blah blah blah. I gave him the whole spiel

7:10

and he said, do you have any relatives

7:12

there? I said, yeah, my kid brother's

7:14

there. He said, oh, okay,

7:17

well let us digest all that and

7:20

then we'll give you an answer. And

7:22

I got turned down with the colonel.

7:25

I did never ended up going to Vietnam.

7:27

And I thought later, gee, I wonder if it was

7:29

the guy I'm not going to say his name because

7:31

he might have kids and grandkids, who

7:34

was a civilian who ran the museum.

7:36

He was very attached to me. He liked

7:39

me, and he knew that

7:41

I did a good job because I went

7:43

to the Pentagon and I got pictures

7:46

from one hundred and seventy third ab on, thinking

7:48

I'd run into pictures of my kid brother, and

7:52

I designed an exhibit in

7:54

my brain was kind of an anti

7:56

war exhibit because they were very graphic,

8:00

and so that was up in the thing and it became

8:02

a popular exhibit in the museum

8:04

there.

8:05

At the Ford. Yeah.

8:06

Now, when you're doing this,

8:09

Dennis was working in the trade, like you're old man.

8:11

He didn't emerge as a writer to win.

8:14

Dennis started writing for

8:18

the Village Voice, and an

8:20

editor who read the Voice

8:23

liked his pieces.

8:24

News.

8:25

No, No, it was for the La Herald

8:27

Examiner in La you know, and

8:31

Dennis had to learn how to drive, to

8:34

be able to take the gig because they didn't have to drive.

8:36

How long was he out there?

8:38

He was out there for a few years, and then

8:40

the editor took over the Herald

8:42

in Boston. But I got a backtrack.

8:44

You know who Dennis's landlord

8:47

was at the time, in La Schwartzenegger

8:50

in La. Yeah. So later

8:52

on when I met Schwarzenegger, I said, hey, my

8:54

kid brother told me we were a good landlord. He

8:56

said, how does he know. I said,

8:59

well, he than the building that you own.

9:01

He said, what was his name? I said,

9:03

Dennis Hemmelt goes Dennis hammel Man.

9:06

Could that guy drink a lot of beer?

9:12

And what about Pete? When did he start his career?

9:15

Well, he was at Atlantis, the graphic

9:17

designer, and he wrote a

9:20

letter to the editor of the New

9:22

York Post back when it was a very left wing

9:24

paper, not how it is now.

9:27

And the guy called them

9:30

the editor James Wexel

9:32

was his name, and said, how would

9:34

you like to be a reporter? He said,

9:37

oh, I love it, because I said, because your

9:39

letter was fabulous. I don't

9:41

know what the content. I never saw the original

9:43

letter, but he went in they gave

9:45

him a tryout, and he had never

9:47

typed before, so he gave

9:50

him a one week or two week tryout, and

9:52

he did, you know, hunt and Peck to

9:55

write his news story. So he he

9:58

actually covered hard news story. But

10:00

he quickly caught

10:03

the eye of Paul Sand, who was the

10:05

famous editor in Pete's friend

10:08

and just a terrific guy and a good

10:10

writer himself. He

10:13

decided to think about having Pete

10:15

be a columnist, and he actually

10:18

and James Weschler was, you

10:20

know, with Dorothy Schiff, who

10:22

wonted the paper that time, was in the hierarchy.

10:25

Paul Sand was the day to day, day

10:28

side editor, and

10:31

he gave Peter tryout as a columnist, and

10:34

he became the youngest columnist of that paper.

10:36

He was twenty four and that's

10:38

where he started.

10:40

Now, for you, I

10:42

don't want to overemphasize

10:44

in this discussion because you're from such a famous

10:46

family, but I of course can't

10:49

be remiss and underemphasize what

10:52

you eventually become and how you wind

10:54

up working with the biggest people

10:57

in the business, the greatest film directors.

11:00

The beginnings of your role

11:02

in the movie industry, how does that start.

11:04

I was doing a lot of journalism,

11:07

you know, for different magazines,

11:09

you know, all the famous magazine

11:12

and working a lot, yeah, freelance. But

11:14

I you know, as

11:16

somebody said to me, Pete

11:18

wrote a film which didn't end

11:21

up being very good. It was directed by Frank

11:23

Perry about doc Holiday. So

11:26

Pete got me to do stills on

11:28

that movie, which was shot in al Maria,

11:31

Spain. And while I was there,

11:33

I met Jerry Herschel was the cameraman

11:35

and his son was the assistant, Alec,

11:38

and Alec said you should

11:40

get in the Union. So I

11:43

said, I'd love to get in the Union so

11:45

I could do both the journalism, because it's always

11:47

in my blood journalism. But I ended

11:50

up getting into the Union. But

11:52

I had to take a test first, and one

11:54

of the questions on the test,

11:57

after I feel out the application, was

12:00

how do you photograph a man with

12:02

a bald head? So I told about

12:04

it. This is so like

12:07

random, yeah, random, and it

12:09

depends on your taste. So I just

12:12

the answer. I put it, and you put a hat on him,

12:14

put a hat on.

12:15

His head, and they gave you a scholarship.

12:17

And the guy guy who the things said, that's

12:19

the funniest answer I've ever heard. That's

12:22

not what we meant. I said, well, it's

12:24

you know, it depends. You could shoot it with available light.

12:26

You can shoot it with a strob, you could shoot it by

12:28

a window, doesn't matter. You know.

12:31

It was the kind of lame thing to keep people

12:33

out of the Union. No, everybody gets into

12:35

the Union, right, which is a good.

12:37

Thing your career.

12:38

The movies you were did stills on because

12:41

I want to explain to people. When

12:43

I was younger, there was a still man

12:45

or woman on the set a lot. The

12:47

stills photography was

12:50

something where.

12:52

It was cast specific.

12:53

So let's say you're doing a movie and Hackman's only in for

12:55

two weeks, you get the still unit in there

12:57

to shoot the stills because he's only there for two weeks.

13:00

But there were stills.

13:00

Around a lot a lot

13:04

and some movies, the big movies when you had

13:06

the biggest stars. If you're doing something with Leo or

13:08

someone, then the stills are there every

13:10

day. It's worth it. I mean, you want great

13:12

still photography. And nowadays

13:15

I just did a film. I went to go finish this film

13:18

in Montana and we had stills

13:20

there for two days.

13:22

The one comes in for two days cast.

13:24

Specific stills for me were

13:26

always this thing where I only act for

13:28

one camera. There's the movie

13:30

camera. But I did this thing where I'd

13:32

almost look right into the camera

13:35

and position my body right toward the

13:37

movie camera. And when I would go off

13:39

into that reverie of going, oh Bob,

13:42

you gotta remember when my dad was alive and I go

13:44

and I play it right into the fucking camera. But

13:46

that's not lookdown the barrel of the lens. And

13:49

my point is is that if there was another camera, there

13:51

were still camera, I go nuts. I'd

13:53

say I take the first a d I'd say,

13:55

get them out of here.

13:57

I'll pose.

13:57

They can shoot the rehearsals later on

14:00

when they cut the camera, we'll pose and do it. But

14:03

I don't want that camera in my eye when

14:05

I'm shooting. I'm assuming

14:07

for you there were rhythms you had to learn,

14:10

and there's things you had to learn about

14:12

shooting because you shot the biggest

14:14

stars in movie history. What

14:16

was that like for you to learn how to do that properly?

14:19

Well, you have to be discreet, but

14:22

you have to get your work done. You

14:24

can't tell the studio later on when they

14:26

get see you infurious out

14:29

of stills. Hey, the guy was tough, you

14:31

know, the actor was a pain in the ass. That's

14:33

not an excuse. They just want to see end results.

14:37

For instance, when I worked on Raging Bull,

14:40

de Niro had an eyeline problem, but

14:43

he would always accommodate

14:45

me. He was so sweet about it. You know, he's

14:48

of course up there near the

14:50

top of my favorite actors, and

14:52

he's a good human being, great

14:54

guy. So he would always

14:56

accommodate me. And then sometimes

14:59

i'd get away were just grabbing stuff and

15:02

he didn't mind. But he would always not

15:04

make a big deal at it. He'd just do it with a

15:06

hand gesture like you

15:08

know, and then he'd say he'd

15:11

nother, I'll do it for you after him, which

15:14

do it for the cut. Yeah, And

15:17

the same thing with Chris Walking. Very sweet,

15:19

very nice. He was in any Hall and

15:22

you know, an eye issue, the eye line

15:24

thing, right, But it's so funny

15:27

when I work with the nero again years later

15:30

on Sleepers, the Barry

15:32

Levinson movie, I said,

15:34

Bob, let me know, if you know, just

15:36

do the same thing he did last time. He said, no, I don't

15:38

have that problem anymore. You

15:41

can just shoot away, and some

15:43

actors just let you shoot away, like Dustin Hoffman

15:46

and Jimmy Kahn. Never you

15:48

know, I worked with him and he's

15:50

a character. I loved him. And

15:53

you know, Nicholson was great.

15:56

No Eyeline without names

15:58

though, because I'm you when you

16:00

said that before, but not one of the name names. They

16:02

have children or grandchildren. I'm not out

16:05

to bury anybody either.

16:07

But that was the guy who brought in whiskey

16:10

and listen of Rainbow.

16:11

Yeah, I remember other actors without

16:13

naming names who that you that

16:16

you have some difficulty with the How do you win them over?

16:18

How do you get the job done? As you said, the

16:20

boss wants the pictures, what do you do?

16:23

I tell them, this is this is my this

16:26

is my job, right, this is how I make my

16:28

living. I got

16:30

I got a little rough with Sam Shephard on

16:32

what the Allen movie. He said, no

16:34

stills. I said, well, you'll do with it.

16:36

He says, no, no stills. First they shooting,

16:40

and I walked up

16:42

to him. At the end of the

16:44

day, I still kept trying

16:47

to grab stuff and I said, listen,

16:49

you know, I don't want to be forceful, but

16:51

this is what I do for a living. You know,

16:53

if you're not going to do it for me afterward, I can

16:56

understand you don't want me to shoot your in the

16:58

take. But you

17:00

know, he said, I don't want to have this

17:02

discussion. No stills. I

17:04

said, all right, they wouldn't go outside and

17:06

start with these, And he looked

17:09

at me, and there was a pa. You

17:11

know, they walked PA's walking back

17:13

and forth to the dressing room, and

17:15

he ran upstairs to the

17:17

producer and the Lime producer Bobby

17:19

Greenhot. Sweet man, Bobby, Yeah,

17:22

great guy, remember Bobby. And he told me the

17:24

Stell photographer just threatened me. And

17:27

Bobby Greenho goes, what do you mean? He goes,

17:30

well, he wanted to take me outside, and

17:32

he's a tall guy. Sam Sheppard. Pete

17:35

had written a New York magazine article

17:37

about him. So that night I called Pete and

17:39

I said, Pete, this guy gave me a hard

17:42

time. I think he's a prick. He

17:44

goes, no, he's probably just zero

17:46

intimidated by Woody or whatever, and

17:48

you know, you know, just calmed

17:51

down about it. I didn't even tell Pete that I threatened

17:53

the guy. But what are

17:56

you being? Woody? He said?

17:59

Greenhot told me what you did. I'm so happy

18:01

you did that. Later

18:06

on I ran into Sam

18:08

Shepard in the village and he

18:10

couldn't have been nicer and turned out to

18:12

be a nice guy, and we'd have coffee and a joint

18:15

in the village a lot together.

18:20

Photo journalist Brian Hammel. If

18:22

you enjoy conversations with brilliant

18:25

photographers, check out my episode

18:27

with Pete Souza, white House photographer

18:30

for both Ronald Reagan and Barack

18:32

Obama.

18:34

The most interesting part of my job

18:36

was that I saw him and all

18:38

these different compartments of his life. I

18:41

saw him as a dad. I saw how he behaved

18:43

with his children. I saw him when he was

18:45

on the basketball court. Most

18:47

competitive guy I've ever met in my life. The

18:50

general public doesn't see that, but I saw that

18:52

part of him. One rule that

18:54

everybody at the White House staff knew was

18:57

that six thirty or seven o'clock he was

18:59

in dinner with his family.

19:01

Full stop.

19:04

To hear more of my conversation with

19:06

Pete Souza, go to Hear's Thething

19:09

dot org. After the break,

19:11

Brian Hamill shares the backstory

19:14

of how some of the most memorable

19:16

images of John Lennon came to

19:18

be I'm

19:32

Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's

19:34

the thing. Brian Hamill is

19:37

known for his photos from some

19:39

of the most significant films in

19:41

history. In fact, one of his early

19:44

jobs on set led to the iconic

19:46

movie poster for Woody Allen's film

19:49

Manhattan. I wanted to know if

19:51

Hamill set out to take the one lucky

19:53

frame that became the poster or was

19:55

it just another behind the scenes shots.

19:58

No, it was where Gordon

20:00

Willis may rest in peace.

20:02

Phenomenal talent.

20:04

I worked with Gordy.

20:05

Yeah, phenomenal talent. He took a

20:07

long time to light it. But

20:09

once stuff is lit by

20:11

Gordon, it goes like clockwork. When

20:14

I saw how gorgeous it looked, I

20:17

had one of the grips, get me a ladder so I

20:19

could get up on the ladder and get a good conversation

20:23

that was close to Gordon's composition

20:26

and bingo. I

20:29

shot about eight or nine frames,

20:31

and Woody, who doesn't like

20:33

to do many takes, he said, let's

20:35

move on.

20:36

You know, I'm gonna tell two quick stories.

20:38

One time, I do Malice,

20:40

this very tepid thriller I did with Nicole Kidman

20:43

and Bill Pullman, and

20:45

Gordy was the DP, and

20:47

Harold Becker was the director, and

20:49

Harold who was like a Jewish gangster at

20:51

a book and with that accent of his and that voice of his.

20:54

Harold and GORDI are there and when they're standing

20:56

there together talking Gordon I think it

20:58

was day one and turns out and he goes.

21:00

When everybody is shut up.

21:02

He screams at the crew and

21:04

we all teach other like, wow, this is

21:07

not at all what I had in mind, you know what I mean? And

21:10

I realized I said I needed

21:12

to go the other way. I

21:14

needed to fight through the wall. So I go

21:16

up to Gordie the next day. I go, hey,

21:19

I mean, I see you're here at the crack of dawn and

21:21

you're on your feet getting everything set up.

21:22

I go, can I get you a cup of coffee? He goes, yeah,

21:26

sure, I'll take a cup of coffee. How do you

21:28

like it? And I'm like it with milk and two sugars

21:30

or whatever the fuck it was. I go get it.

21:32

And I brought him his coffee every morning that I worked,

21:35

and he could not have been nicer to me.

21:37

It's like something simple like that.

21:39

He could not have been nicer to me. Now,

21:42

all of Woody's movies, all of his

21:44

ouvra is just it saved my life.

21:47

It saved my because when I really needed to take my mind

21:49

off my problems, that's the only thing that worked,

21:51

like Gangbusters. Now, who was a

21:53

director who you're a photographer and

21:56

you have an eye and you talk about

21:58

composition and ladders and go and all this other

22:00

stuff. Who is a director who you

22:03

learned from? Did you learn from anybody when

22:05

you were watching them shoot films?

22:07

Oh? Sure?

22:08

Well, of course? Was that was

22:10

a masterclass for me in

22:12

film mate Michael Chapman. Michael

22:15

Chapman was you know, legendary

22:17

DP and he had been Gordie's operator.

22:20

Right the Raging Boat. Yeah, Chapman

22:22

was a DP.

22:23

What's it like for you to

22:26

be on a movie set

22:28

and you're shooting these people and do you

22:31

get like a real or not?

22:33

Now because you've done it forever and you you're and

22:36

I want to get to John Lenond in a minute, But was it

22:38

just like really like a high for you? Did you sit

22:40

there and go I can't believe I'm on the fucking set

22:42

of this movie while they're making this

22:44

and you could tell it's great.

22:45

Well, it's good, it's unfolding.

22:46

Yeah, on good movies. Yeah,

22:49

but you know, at the beginning of my career, I worked

22:51

on a half a dozen garbage

22:53

cam movies, right, even while

22:55

I was in the Union. You know, you got to work

22:57

your way up to get and I

23:00

actually the first really terrific movie

23:02

I worked on was Annie Hall. Actually

23:06

The Gambler was a good movie.

23:08

Jimmy.

23:10

Yeah.

23:10

Now do you stop at some point?

23:13

Is there a time where you just stop and you don't want to

23:15

be on sets anymore? Did like did it run its course?

23:17

And you were like, I think this is my last movie?

23:19

What happened?

23:20

Well, my career got kind

23:22

of fucked up when I got THROATCTS.

23:25

I had to take.

23:26

Off for a year, and you got that what

23:28

year.

23:29

I got the surgery done in two

23:31

thousand and then I had a gift

23:34

into two thousand and one with the radiation,

23:37

which is you know, do you.

23:38

Remember running to me on the street. Yes,

23:41

I'm cutting a film. Yeah, the only

23:43

film I ever made that I directed. I hated

23:45

every minute.

23:46

You looked at me.

23:47

I didn't know who you were. Forty mangan

23:49

Arrow was around the corner to go get lunch. I was

23:51

on four. I can't believe you your fucking memories.

23:54

Unbelieva.

23:54

I'm not forty third Street and down that block

23:56

between ninth and tenth was the editing house and

23:59

next door I go out and smoke a cigarette. I

24:01

get out of the ending room and go smoke a cigarette, and

24:03

then I and the firehouse was next door,

24:06

right, and you know, like

24:08

I don't know what percent, like eighty percent of the guys

24:10

in that unit were killed in nine to eleven that September.

24:13

Including Patty Brown.

24:15

I ran into you on the corner and you

24:17

said to me, alec I took a look at

24:19

you.

24:19

I didn't even know who you were.

24:21

My head was swollen, yeah, and.

24:23

Your and your and your face was was was

24:25

swollen and yeah, and you told

24:27

me what happened.

24:27

I couldn't believe it.

24:28

Yeah, stage four cancer.

24:31

And so all gone. You're good,

24:33

Oh yeah, I'm good now.

24:34

But that but that would you say that was the cause of interrupting

24:37

your well.

24:38

I put a hurt on my career for a

24:40

year and a half. But my two

24:43

North stars, Woody and Barry

24:45

Levinson, both hired

24:47

me right away, right, you know when I when

24:49

I was good enough to work, and

24:52

I did another ten or

24:54

fifteen movies after I healed

24:56

up.

24:57

What's the last movie you did?

24:59

Last movie I I did was It

25:02

Might Have Been with You with Michael Currente.

25:04

No.

25:05

In two thousand and six Do We Do

25:07

It was called Brooklyn Rules.

25:09

Brooklyn Rules with Freddie Prince Junior. Yeah.

25:12

Yeah, that's the last one I did with Karente. Before

25:14

that, I did Outside Providence that he

25:16

adapted from the Farrely

25:18

Brothers book. Right, yeah, And

25:20

Karrente he doesn't make movies anymore, and he's

25:23

no.

25:23

He just shot a pilot that

25:26

he sent to me in It's good. It's

25:29

good pilot wise guys

25:31

in Federal Hill, you know, and

25:34

that's that's his Uh, that's home

25:36

town, that mill, you know that,

25:39

And it's good. I hope it gets picked

25:41

up.

25:42

You know.

25:42

He's a nice guy. He's a determined guy.

25:44

Well when he when he focuses, he's a classic

25:46

example of a director who needed

25:48

a good producer so he could just focus on making the

25:50

movie.

25:51

Right.

25:51

Like when we made the movie Outside Providence.

25:54

He would literally walk up to me and I mean, who's funnier

25:56

than Karente was a very funny guy.

25:57

Yeah.

25:58

Now talk to me about Lenin.

26:02

You had a big exhibit, Well,

26:04

I have.

26:04

A book that came out. I had

26:06

an exhibit. The last exhibit I had of my

26:08

London pictures was in a terrific gallery

26:10

in Rheinberg, New York, the Betsy

26:13

Jacket Russo Gallery. But

26:16

my Lenden pictures have been displayed in

26:18

New Mexico at a terrific

26:21

gallery that only does black and white stuff

26:23

down there, and the Peter

26:26

Fretterman Gallery in Los

26:28

Angeles. But the last exhibit

26:30

I had of those photographs was

26:33

some of those photographs, not all the ones in

26:35

the book. He wrote the forward for the

26:37

book.

26:39

And how did that come about? How did the relationship

26:41

with Lenin come about?

26:42

I got an assignment from a Sunday

26:44

supplement in nineteen seventy

26:47

two. After I started working

26:49

on movies, I did concurrently

26:52

photo journalism, and

26:54

Pete had done a piece on him

26:57

years earlier when it was the Beatles.

27:00

He did a piece on the Beatles for the Saturday Evening

27:02

Post, and he had written some columns

27:05

defending him, because remember

27:07

that he went to that whole ordeal

27:10

where they were trying to, you know, not

27:12

let him stay in the yeah

27:14

and kick him out and everything, and Pete

27:17

defended him in a cluster of columns.

27:20

I think it was The Post at that time when

27:22

Pete was the columns for the Post. So

27:25

I said, he used to want in touch with Lennon and he said yeah.

27:27

I said, I just got an assignment from

27:30

this magazine, a Sunday supplement,

27:33

and he said, yeah, you should do it. I said,

27:35

well, how do I get in touch with him? He said, well,

27:37

I'll call him. So he called him

27:40

and the next day he

27:42

said, yeah, tell your brother to come by tomorrow.

27:44

He lived in the village at one oh five

27:46

Bank Street at this time, and

27:49

I had already shot the concert

27:52

at the Garden, which was in August

27:55

of seventy one. There

27:57

was a concert that John and Yoko did

27:59

that. It was a benefit

28:01

concert for Willowbrook with you

28:03

know heraldover I remember when

28:05

he was a champion of his

28:08

career. Yeah. Anyway,

28:10

I go over there and I decided,

28:12

hey, listen, you know I

28:15

meet to John Lennon. Let me take

28:17

all these photographs. And they were already

28:19

being distributed through the agency I

28:22

had that I worked on with

28:24

the land called photo reporters. So

28:27

I got some you know, silver gelatin

28:29

eight x tens made up and

28:32

I figured, at some point I'm going

28:34

to give it to John and Yoko, these prints, but

28:36

I'm not going to do it right away because I don't want to think

28:38

I was a brown nose. So I

28:40

ring the bell and I figured, you know, it's going to

28:42

be makeup pair of publicists and

28:45

all the bullshit that goes on when you're photograph

28:47

a star. And hear

28:50

the voice saying, yeah, come on up. The apartment

28:52

was a couple of flight the top floor, so

28:55

he answered the door himself and

28:57

he stuck at his turn and goes, hey, Brian, John

29:01

like, okay,

29:03

yeah, you can start. He goes, would you like a cupa?

29:07

And you know the Irish and he's

29:09

English with Irish roots.

29:12

He was offering me tea. But I was still a

29:14

little nervous, and I figured, you know, I'm

29:16

going to go and I'm going to see the you know, the

29:19

whole team you know that he's got behind

29:21

him, And I walked in through. I

29:23

declined the tee and

29:26

I walked into the room and the only

29:28

person there besides Jean was Joko,

29:32

and they gave me all the time in the world I

29:34

needed.

29:35

Why do you think he did that?

29:37

He was he was just a nice guy.

29:38

It was a solid guy, and maybe he craved

29:41

just normal exchanges with people in normal

29:43

right moments with people after having so much insanity,

29:45

and.

29:46

You know, I foughto left and now I

29:48

don't know, forty five minutes and then he

29:51

said you got enough, and I said,

29:53

I'd love to get you walk in the streets.

29:55

He said, yeah, let's do it. So

29:57

the two of us, the three of us, okay,

30:01

and we walked around the village and

30:04

people would stop him, but not like

30:06

you know Stosha New

30:09

Yorkers in the village, Andy John

30:11

that was blah blah blah. And he was

30:14

listened to all of them. He was a good listener. He

30:17

wasn't like he didn't, you know, try

30:19

to cut people short. The same with yoga.

30:22

She was exceedingly nice, and all

30:24

the bullshit about all the negativity about

30:26

her really bugs the shit at

30:28

of me to this day because she's a

30:30

nice person.

30:33

Brian Hammel, if you're enjoying

30:35

this conversation, tell a friend and

30:38

be sure to follow. Here's the thing on

30:40

the iHeartRadio, app, Spotify

30:42

or wherever you get your podcasts.

30:45

When we come back, Brian Hammel

30:47

shares his experience working in Northern

30:49

Ireland during the troubles.

31:06

I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening

31:08

to Here's the Thing. Photo

31:10

journalist Brian Hamill has been lucky

31:13

enough to be present for some remarkable

31:15

cultural moments, but he's also

31:17

been present to capture moments of strife

31:20

and conflict, the Troubles in

31:22

Ireland, the nineteen ninety four

31:25

Northridge earthquake, and sadly,

31:27

the assassination of Robert Kennedy in

31:29

Los Angeles in nineteen sixty

31:31

eight.

31:32

Pete was very friendly with Bobby

31:35

and I had met Bobby in the village and

31:37

who had a beer, and Pete

31:40

introduced me to him. So

31:42

Pete went to Ireland to work on his first

31:45

novel, and Pete

31:47

sent Timmeal letter saying you know you have

31:50

to run for president. Basically he

31:52

sent them from Ireland. Bobby wrote

31:54

him back a letter and said

31:57

I need you back here. And

31:59

Pete he had just finished his first

32:02

novel, which was called A Killing for

32:04

Christ, a thriller. So

32:07

he came back and then he said to me let's

32:10

go to La together. I had just gotten

32:12

out of the army. I should precede

32:14

this by saying, Martin Luther King got

32:17

assassinated fourth,

32:19

Yeah, April fourth, and I got out a

32:21

couple of days later. I'll

32:23

never forget the phone call. My

32:26

mother called me crying on the phone.

32:29

So anyway, we got out to La

32:32

Pete and I and we

32:34

ended up at the Ambassador Hotel. We

32:36

were up in the room, the hotel room

32:39

before he went down to give that speech, the

32:41

victory speech, you know. Anyway,

32:44

he was supposed to go out the back

32:47

of the ballroom, and

32:49

then Pete was up on the

32:51

stage near Bobby right here,

32:53

and I was shooting this way

32:55

in the crowd, shooting up, and

32:58

Pete said, he gestured for me

33:01

come around the curtain, and

33:04

I made my way up there and said like that,

33:06

were going out this way through

33:09

the kitchen. But anyway,

33:11

I walked right by Sirhan. I

33:14

was from here too, I don't know, thirty

33:17

feet beyond where

33:19

he actually got murdered, maybe twenty five

33:21

feet because I wanted

33:24

to have the candidate come to me

33:26

so I could photograph him coming at

33:28

me, you know, in the kitchen. So I was all

33:30

set and then boom boom, boom boom,

33:33

and my heart sank. I went holy shit,

33:36

and I could hear somebody screaming,

33:38

no Jack Ruby's, no, Jack Ruby's.

33:41

I don't know who that ever was. But Pete

33:44

was right there. It was next to Rosie

33:47

Greer, and I was you know, he

33:49

saw the whole thing go down and luckily, you know,

33:51

five people got shot.

33:52

Well interesting how divided the

33:55

family was about Sirhans parole.

33:57

Yes, you know, Bobby Kennedy Junior said

33:59

he's sat with him and said, this guy didn't kill my dad,

34:03

thanks, and other members of the family were,

34:05

you know, vehement about him not getting any parole.

34:08

I mean, I have a lot of opinions about that

34:10

because I'm kind of a conspiracy not about both assassinations.

34:13

And when people talk about the angle that Sir

34:15

Haan was at compared to where the gun

34:17

was shot into his masty, there's

34:20

a lot of questions here.

34:21

Yeah, Bobby Jr. Is

34:23

very answer that.

34:24

Yeah, yeah, completely.

34:26

Now one last question, which is you

34:28

shot. I mean, I don't like this blanket

34:30

term. It's a little tedious to me, but you shot the troubles

34:33

over in Ireland. You were over in the caase of photography

34:35

or were you an assignment for for that.

34:37

The New York Times magazine? When

34:39

was that nineteen seventy two, Right,

34:41

that's a bloody sign.

34:42

This was a very busy time for you.

34:44

Oh yeah, seventies

34:47

were it was that from my career?

34:49

Yeah, and what

34:51

did you see over there? Well?

34:53

I was lucky because my parents are from Belfast,

34:55

so I haired kind of a hook with the IRA. Honestly,

35:00

people hit no coment. Yeah, right,

35:03

And I got introduced to Martin

35:05

McGinnis, who sort of put

35:07

me under his wing. And you told about

35:10

the guy with balls, you

35:12

know, the Brits, and he said they're

35:15

gonna be shooting at us. He told me. I said, yeah,

35:17

I'm down. So they did.

35:19

They shot at us. And if

35:21

you look at the.

35:22

You wanted to go to Vietnam, here was your chance.

35:24

Yeah, shot it. And

35:26

actually Pete came over because

35:28

he was doing a piece for

35:31

New York Magazine. So some of the

35:33

photographs were also in the New

35:35

York Magazine with Pete's piece. But Gail

35:37

she who wrote the piece where I did the

35:40

photos for the New York Times magazine.

35:42

But Martin McGinnis, what the Sterling

35:45

guy. He was. He was the head

35:47

of the provos and he was young. He

35:49

was like twenty two something. He was

35:51

younger than I was. I think I was twenty twenty

35:54

four or twenty five when I was there. But

35:56

you know, when you're that young, you feel like you're

35:59

immortal, you know.

36:04

Photo journalist Brian hammil You

36:07

can see some of Brian's work in

36:09

person at the Betsy Hakarusso

36:11

Gallery in Rhinebeck, New York. On

36:13

October ninth, his photos

36:16

of John Lennon will be on display

36:18

in honor of what would have been the musician's

36:20

eighty third birthday. This

36:23

episode was recorded at CDM

36:25

Studios in New York City.

36:27

We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach

36:29

MacNeice, and Maureen Hobin. Our

36:32

engineer is Frank Imperial. Our

36:34

social media manager is Danielle

36:36

Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's

36:38

the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.