0:00

This is Alec Baldwin and you were listening

0:02

to Here's the Thing. In

0:09

the past year, Laurie Metcalf

0:11

has appeared in a hit television

0:14

show, Roseanne was nominated

0:16

for an Oscar for her appearance in Ladybird

0:19

and won two Tony's one Last

0:21

Week and one the year before.

0:24

Joe Mantello, who directed her in Three

0:26

Tall Women, her current play, described

0:29

Metcalf as a monster in

0:31

the room.

0:40

She was still at Illinois State when

0:42

she met the actors with whom she

0:44

started one of the world's great theater companies,

0:47

but Steppenwolf was still just a group of

0:49

friends putting on plays in

0:51

a church. It took a

0:53

couple of years for her to abandon her

0:55

day job as a legal secretary

0:58

who could type a hundred and twenty words

1:00

a minute.

1:03

She's best known for her role as Jackie,

1:06

rose Anne's younger sister, but she has also

1:08

appeared in the norm show Getting

1:10

On the Big Bang Theory, to name

1:13

just a few. Lorie

1:15

Metcalf has been nominated for Emmy

1:17

Awards ten times, winning three.

1:20

But even after so many years on television

1:23

sets, it's the stage that Lorie

1:25

Metcalf calls home. I have

1:27

a phobia of the camera. UM.

1:29

A lot of people like to work with

1:32

the camera, and they understand it. Actors,

1:34

they know exactly how much

1:36

to give the camera, and they're the camera

1:39

is their friend. And to me,

1:41

it just becomes this thing in the

1:44

room that I have to pretend like

1:46

he isn't there yes factor in which

1:49

just makes me self conscious and I don't feel

1:51

as free as I do on a stage.

1:54

One of the joys of doing films is working

1:56

with great camera people, cinematographers

1:59

and their crew. And I've worked

2:01

with some of the greatest cinematographers in history,

2:04

you know, of of my generation, of my time.

2:07

But they would say to me, we're

2:09

going to do this, here's this shop, We're going to do

2:11

it in this lens, And very early

2:13

on I had this kind of silly

2:16

habit of saying to them, I really don't

2:18

care what lends you're on. It's not going to

2:20

affect what I'm going to do. The thing

2:22

I do, I'm gonna do it that way. Now if

2:24

it should I tone it down, should

2:26

I make it bigger, small, or whatever to

2:28

play to the camera. And I found myself

2:31

incapable of doing that. Do you feel the same way

2:33

yeah, but and maybe that's what the piece

2:35

that I'm missing. I've done such so

2:38

few films that I've never had

2:40

been able to develop that relationship

2:43

with a cinematographer. So maybe

2:45

that would be the missing piece that would put

2:47

me more at ease. You know that I knew

2:50

that somebody was watching out for it and

2:52

was giving me, you know, advice, too

2:54

big, too small, or I don't even know

2:56

what else it would be. But I just

2:58

feel pretty much that I can sort of gauge

3:02

what I'm doing on a stage

3:04

and in front of a camera. I can't tell at

3:06

all. If the director says,

3:08

well, we're moving on, or do you want one more?

3:11

I always say, oh, let's just move on,

3:13

because I don't know what we've got. I'm assuming

3:16

you know that you got it, And so I

3:19

have no clue. How did the experience of

3:21

shooting Ladybird come about? How

3:23

that they found you? Yeah? I think I

3:25

was on Scott Ruden's radar and the

3:27

producer and he suggested me

3:30

to Greta Gerwig, and Greta sent me the script

3:32

and I read it and really responded to the

3:34

material, and then she

3:36

and I had a quick phone conversation and

3:39

hit it off over the phone, and it was very

3:41

small independent movie, and so I thought,

3:43

oh, I haven't done a movie in about ten years,

3:45

so this will be a nice

3:47

little way to put my toe back in the water and see

3:49

how it is. Why hadn't you made a movie in ten years?

3:52

Nobody asked me, it's hard to

3:54

believe. It's true. Were you living

3:56

a life where you appeared unavailable? Were you traveling

3:58

and doing plays and out of town? I

4:01

have that part that's partly true. Yeah.

4:03

I had been doing a lot of theater, and

4:07

that's true. Yeah, pack my word for it. So

4:12

um, and then when it exploded,

4:15

when Ladybird exploded, I was

4:17

unprepared for I I had no idea

4:19

what that that publicity circus

4:22

train was that you have to get on, you

4:24

know, and ride for for for about

4:26

three months, to all the awards

4:28

seasons. I think I'm spoiled for life

4:31

working with her. She had done

4:34

all the heavy lifting on on the

4:36

script itself. So the script was

4:38

in such good shape that there were never those days

4:40

when you get on the set and everybody's looking at each

4:42

other saying this doesn't really work. Um,

4:45

what would you say here? You

4:47

know, there was never that scramble or that uncertainty.

4:50

Everything was crystal clear from from

4:52

day one, and Greta is just a natural

4:54

at it. She just she gives

4:56

the kind of notes that, um, click

4:58

with an actor and our do a bowl rather

5:01

than get in your head neck and mess you up,

5:04

and where you start second guessing, Well, I thought

5:06

I was doing the line that way, but they're

5:08

telling me to do it differently, So now what do I

5:10

do? And then you just shut down, You just

5:12

you just become paralyzed in

5:15

your head. Whether it's television what

5:17

you've done quite a bit of or film.

5:19

Had you worked with a woman director before, Yeah,

5:21

I have, Well

5:23

no, not in film because I just haven't done

5:26

that much a lot of female directors. And TV though,

5:28

yeah, and uh and theater yeah, um.

5:31

And the TV that I've done though has been limited

5:33

also because it's been sitcoms

5:35

mostly, um, you know, four

5:37

camera some women directors, but

5:40

just that it's just that style.

5:43

You know. I've done very little single

5:45

camera TV, so this four

5:47

camera sitcom style is also very

5:49

different, a different beast definitely

5:52

from theater and film,

5:55

and that was a huge learning curve for me. Also

5:57

stepping into Roseanne third

6:00

years ago again we did the pilot,

6:02

my god, but

6:05

when you when you do that, let's ease into that

6:10

and the the uh. But when

6:12

you work, is there a difference for you when you work with

6:14

a woman director or a man director. Honestly,

6:17

I think it just boils down to the person. And

6:19

with this person there was a feminine

6:21

vibe I will say with Greta, because

6:23

she's very maternal, and you felt

6:26

I think everybody in the cast and crew felt very

6:28

well protected. UM cherished,

6:32

UM listened to UM,

6:34

but but very

6:36

safe. And And I can

6:38

label that, you know, because she's a

6:40

woman, or I can just label it because it's Greta,

6:43

you know, just the person. You grew up in Illinois,

6:46

southern Illinois, and what'd your dad do? Controller

6:49

at Illinois State University. And she

6:52

was a librarian. And there were how many kids

6:55

in your family? Just three? How many

6:57

boys? How many girls? I'm the oldest, and

6:59

then us sister and her brothers. I

7:04

don't know. I UM

7:07

used to put on UM

7:10

records of musicals and

7:13

lip sync to them fly through

7:15

the air in the in the

7:17

in the backyard on a swing set, or

7:19

or just like lip syncing

7:22

UM to Gypsy

7:25

in the living room. Not even

7:27

for anybody to watch, just to do it. I

7:29

don't know, but I so that

7:31

was in me. But it wasn't

7:34

about performing it. It was sort

7:36

of about a feeling of interpreting

7:38

it, using their singing and

7:41

just mouthing it, but feeling like I

7:43

was interpreting it. Something about that clicked

7:45

with me. But then I was much

7:47

too practical to go into theater

7:50

in college. I

7:52

thought I'd never make a living at it. So um,

7:55

Illinois State University. German

8:00

the most practical of all because

8:05

German musical Germans.

8:07

Well, but I thought i'd be a translator,

8:09

you know. So there was something about language German.

8:13

No, I don't think so, not that I know of

8:16

a swing

8:19

set. She thinking German.

8:22

Well, we had a choice of two languages to

8:24

pick in high school. I picked that one and I liked

8:27

it. I ended up liking the language. There

8:29

are definite rules to it. It's very

8:32

rigid, and I like that. Yeah

8:35

it is. Yeah, And then fell

8:37

in with the group that

8:40

became Steppenwolf at Illinois

8:42

State. Yes, that's what happened.

8:44

Jeff Perry, Terry Kinney, John

8:46

Malkovich were going to

8:48

school there. Yeah, all

8:51

those people I didn't even know this. All of

8:53

them went to school down there. Jane,

8:56

Terry, well Joan. Joan

8:58

didn't go to school there. Harry, Jeff, Perry,

9:01

and Malkovich all went there. UM

9:04

Gary Sonice was up in Highland

9:07

Park. He didn't go to college, so he was like

9:09

our uh,

9:13

our wingman for for for being

9:15

up in Highland Park and scoring us

9:17

you know a place wheretorcycle where

9:19

we where we could do our

9:21

our sad little one ax. Joane

9:24

did come into the group later, she did not go to

9:27

UM Illinois State. Who

9:29

did you meet first? Uh, Terry

9:31

Kinney and then Jeff and then John

9:34

and you met them where you met him in a class, in an

9:36

acting class or on the street or um.

9:38

I was, does that group know they

9:41

want to become Steppenwolf? Yeah? I know, I

9:43

know. I was actually

9:46

um dabbling in theater, but I

9:48

was you know, my I was a German major, so

9:51

I wasn't going to go down in the theater room. I was Terry's

9:54

girlfriend, and so I got brought

9:57

into the mix as the girlfriend and then

9:59

and that that's how I got introduced to everybody.

10:02

And what do you do first? Did you all say

10:04

let's form a group? Of theater group, or we

10:07

said, let's form a theater group for the summer

10:10

for one summer, and

10:13

we um found a church basement who

10:15

charged us, you know, a dollar a month, and we built

10:18

some risers and put some shares in there and did

10:20

four one axe and uh, I

10:23

thought well that'll be it. But

10:25

then we thought, let's do another one, and

10:27

then another and another. So there was no plan.

10:29

It just evolved. When did it change?

10:32

Probably changed, I would say like about

10:35

five years later when we were able

10:37

to quit our day jobs and join equity

10:39

and then also move into the

10:41

city into a place

10:44

space you found. It became the step in Wolf

10:46

Theater. We found a space first that was in

10:48

a Jane Adams Hull house that we rented,

10:51

and then from there we moved it took

10:53

over from a group called St. Nicholas

10:55

Theater, took over their space,

10:58

and then by that time we had built up a

11:01

really good board and

11:04

with their backing, we were able to build

11:07

a place from scratch, from the ground

11:09

up, literally, which we're still in now. They're

11:12

still there now.

11:14

In New York, you hear about Stepping Wolf. I remember

11:17

when that takes off, you

11:19

know when in New York everybody was like they

11:21

talked about stepping bof like it was heroin. I

11:23

mean, like like the chicest thing. Well,

11:25

the first thing that happened was that Malkovich

11:28

and Gary Snee brought in um

11:31

True West. That was the first one. That was the

11:33

first one that traveled to New York. Yeah,

11:35

and then after that it was Balman

11:37

Gilead, and that one came in and ran

11:39

for like nine months and was everybody was

11:42

talking about it and it was such a cool

11:44

time to be in uh

11:46

in New York. That was eight three, I think.

11:48

And we had music in that show by

11:51

Springsteen, Ricky Lee Jones, and Tom

11:53

Waits. They all came to see

11:55

the show. You know. It was wild. Where

11:58

did you do Gilead off Broadway? Yeah?

12:00

At Circle Rep. It's it's gone now. But

12:02

the one downtown, Yeah, I did

12:05

to a kiss down there. Yeah, the one down on

12:07

Sheridan Square, Yes,

12:09

yes, exactly. Yeah, I sub let her apartment.

12:13

I remember that when you were you were in New York

12:16

and people couldn't stop talking about you

12:19

guys. It was just a different style.

12:21

It was different. It was well

12:24

they called it rock and roll theater, but

12:26

um, I think it was just a shared passion

12:29

that we had that made us

12:31

just light up on stage convention.

12:35

Yes, Yes, that's what I remember about

12:37

them. Yes and uh. And those plays

12:40

were perfect um

12:43

vehicles for that dark yes

12:45

some of them. And funny. Yeah.

12:48

It's kind of kind of the mix of like a Martin

12:50

McDonough, you know,

12:53

he's a bit a bit of step In Wolf and him.

12:55

Yeah, and theatrical, that's

12:57

what they were. They didn't back off. It wasn't trying

12:59

to be super realistic or supernatural.

13:02

Paul mcgilly had had some really strong

13:04

theatrical moments in it where lights

13:07

would go out and a spotlight would

13:09

hit a character and everybody's frozen, and you'd

13:11

hear the character say two lines

13:13

and then lights pop back up again and you're

13:16

in a diner and it would come to life

13:18

again. You know, what's a show that really

13:20

stands out that you did back then that you always remember

13:22

what's the performance you gave. If you

13:24

close your eyes, you can remember where

13:26

you were and when you're holding what you were wearing.

13:29

Yeah, I've got a number of them. I

13:31

think that was certainly one, and even before

13:33

then was a production

13:35

of Glass Menagerie that we did way back in

13:37

that little basement with uh Malkovich

13:40

was Tom and Terry Kinney was a gentleman

13:42

caller, and we had a local woman who was played Amanda,

13:46

and uh that was the

13:48

production that made we

13:50

were out in the suburbs, that made critics in

13:53

towns sit up and take notice of the

13:55

Stepping Wolf Company and they would start driving

13:58

up, you know, to see our shows. It

14:00

was it was, I don't know what

14:02

made it different. It was like, um,

14:07

John didn't try to hide

14:11

that Tom was gay

14:13

and desperately, you know, lonely and wanting

14:15

to meet somebody. And I didn't try

14:17

to hide that Laura was not

14:20

um mentally ill, you

14:23

know, and that there was no clearly no hope

14:25

at all. It wasn't. Sometimes it can be played

14:27

like a young pretty

14:29

girl who if she's fragile, fragile

14:32

and if yes, and if she if

14:34

she had a nice dress, yeah,

14:37

yeah, yeah, make the make the balls

14:39

or choice, you know, yeah, yes,

14:42

Now you were you were dating

14:45

Kenny, he was your boyfriend at the time. Does

14:48

that end in the middle of the

14:50

ascension of Uh, Well,

14:53

we were a very um insular

14:55

group and so there was a lot of mixing and matching,

14:58

right like in a rock

15:00

band like Flip with Mac. Yeah, we were

15:02

all sleeping with each other, yes, yeah, yeah,

15:06

yeah, so which made a lot of

15:08

also awkward in fighting and

15:10

you know like, well I can't, yeah,

15:13

I can't be in that play because you know, I've just

15:15

now broken up with him, so you know, I'm

15:17

gonna have to look somewhere else. But yeah,

15:19

I know, it was, it was. It was in

15:22

that sense. It was also a very theatrical time.

15:25

You know, the highs or highs and the lows

15:29

were all crazy. All we wanted

15:31

to do was hang out together, make each other

15:34

either laugh or cry. And

15:36

but we took the um the work

15:38

part very seriously and

15:41

that made us all better, you know, because we were having

15:43

to play parts we wouldn't be cast in anywhere

15:46

else because we were

15:48

all the same age, and

15:50

we couldn't find plays you know that would accommodate

15:53

that. So we'd have so I'd have

15:55

to be the mom in Malkovich's

15:58

Mom in True West, and then I'd have to be his

16:00

little niece in the

16:02

fifth of July to cover the gamuts.

16:04

Yes, So, so we ultimately

16:07

ended up stretching ourselves into areas

16:10

that we had no business going

16:12

into would you say that it kind of unravels

16:15

and everybody they

16:17

start to come apart because

16:20

stardom intervenes. Who's the first person

16:22

becomes a star And

16:24

what's the first thing he stars in? Oh? He We did

16:26

that movie with Sally

16:29

Field. He played a blind character.

16:31

He made chairs Places

16:34

in the Heart. That's that's the movie that took

16:36

him out of the mix for a while. And

16:38

believe me, I mean we were so naive and

16:40

so inbread and everything at that point. It

16:43

is like John had this offer

16:45

to go be in a movie and we all had a

16:47

big company meeting about it, deciding

16:50

whether or not to let him do John

16:53

had his out. Yes, yes,

16:56

did anyone vote not to let him leave? Probably?

16:58

I don't remember, you know, because we did our voting

17:01

like little kids. We would put our heads down

17:03

on the table and raise our raise our

17:05

hands. And whoever had to be artistic

17:08

director at that time, because that was a thankless,

17:10

worthless job nobody wanted that had

17:12

to count the votes. Yeah, so Jon

17:14

got to go do it. But

17:16

that's how how you know when he came back

17:18

and what happened? Well,

17:21

I think that that was before True West. I

17:24

think he made that movie before it. I'm not

17:26

sure the timeline of that, but we were

17:28

so because we started

17:30

out in a little suburb and because we

17:33

very slowly made our way into

17:35

the city, and because we were centered

17:37

around Chicago and not l A or New

17:40

York, people kind of left us alone

17:42

for a lot longer that because they would

17:44

have swooped in if we were on the coast and

17:47

just taken everybody or access. Yes

17:49

we were, yes, we were yes. So

17:52

so that helped us, um,

17:54

get some more traction as a group. They

17:57

left us alone for a longer time. But after

17:59

places in the heart that he become less and less

18:01

available, well we all

18:04

started to

18:07

yeah, yeah, well, um,

18:11

it was a big deal that we on

18:13

mass took bal mc gilead to New

18:16

York. That was a big learning

18:18

experience for us all. And and I

18:20

ended up making a movie Desperately

18:22

Seeking Susan because I was in town.

18:25

And but for me that

18:27

didn't spiral out into um,

18:29

you know, a lot more movie or a movie career

18:31

obviously, but um, we

18:33

were starting to very slowly as

18:35

a group but also individually

18:38

starting to get known and we became more

18:40

available because we were

18:42

adding people to the company, and

18:44

that made us more available to take

18:46

time off, go off and do a different project

18:49

and then return. But for a decade,

18:51

we all tried a lot to return

18:54

and and rejuvenate, you

18:56

know, get get, get our batteries charged

18:59

on that stage each again. Yes, it definitely

19:01

was home. Who else has come up

19:03

through the ranks of there in? Anybody

19:05

else I would know? And did that success

19:08

replicate itself with future generations of people?

19:11

Or you guys it and nobody

19:13

else you ever really became famous after that?

19:15

Um, boy, i'd have to do. You know

19:17

John Hill, he's a young actor

19:20

that you would recognize. He's um

19:22

taken off after having come into

19:24

the company. Sally Murphy,

19:27

um has done a lot of work here in New

19:30

York. She's gonna play right now called come

19:32

Admissions. I think i'd have

19:35

to look. You know, the list has gotten big. There's

19:37

like forty people in the company

19:39

now and uh it's tough

19:41

for us to get I haven't been back in five years.

19:43

You know, it's tough to go back and commit

19:46

to uh four or five months

19:49

out of a year. And because

19:51

we're on a subscription season, they

19:54

want to know like at least a year in advance.

19:57

When you can you know, rope off that time.

19:59

It's hard, right, I find segregating

20:02

that time and protecting that time to do a show,

20:05

it is very difficult. The last show I did was with you, when

20:07

we did the show in two thousand fifteen, when

20:10

you came to New York. What was your first show on Broadway?

20:12

On Broadway? Uh, it

20:14

was November written

20:17

by David Man, Yeah, with Nathan

20:19

Lane, directed by Joe Mantell and

20:22

um it was a small part and I

20:24

just wanted to um

20:26

be in the room with those people, those

20:29

specific it was the political one. Yeah,

20:31

yeah, which I would love

20:34

to revisit that now because

20:36

you know it's just this idiot sitting in

20:38

the set with the Oval office.

20:42

I need to go back and read that, or we need to do

20:44

it like as a benefit, you know, just do a

20:46

one reading a reading of it. It's wicked,

20:48

funny, um and more

20:51

timely now than ever. That was your first show

20:53

on Badway. Yeah. Did

20:55

you feel that Broadway was different? Yeah?

20:58

I did. I mean it's

21:00

you know, it's the same amount of work that you put

21:02

in, whether it's there or at Guildhall

21:05

or even a smaller space like for

21:07

fifties seats. You know, the work

21:09

is the same. You're still doing, you're putting

21:12

in and you want wanted

21:14

the best that it can be, and you never

21:16

give up working on it during the whole run.

21:19

But yeah, it's startling to walk

21:21

out on a set that big. And we

21:23

went from the rehearsal room to invited

21:26

dress and it was packed

21:29

with a thousand actors, you

21:31

know, And that was a friend. Yes,

21:34

that was quite a shock. That was

21:36

my first first time there. But I got

21:39

burned on a show called Brighton Beach

21:41

Memoirs that was supposed to

21:43

open up in REP with Broadway

21:45

Bound, and I've never done REP before,

21:48

so I thought, oh, this will be really interesting

21:50

and it's on Broadway so I can be in New York.

21:52

And it's uh, these two

21:55

plays go very really well together.

21:57

Neil Simon, it's the same family,

21:59

but a decade later and

22:02

uh, I don't think he ever yes, well

22:04

he wasn't in it, No, but I don't

22:06

think that that. Neil Simon never meant them

22:08

to be to to go together and REP.

22:10

But they just it was a natural. Everything

22:14

turned out wrong about it. They opened

22:16

up one and expected it to take off

22:18

and it didn't. And then the other one

22:20

we had fully rehearsed it, and we had the costumes,

22:22

we had everything, and it never even saw the

22:24

light of day. And the first one closed after

22:27

three weeks, and it was that was a

22:30

huge low. I had relocated,

22:34

not my family, but one of my kids out,

22:36

had them in school. This was a real

22:38

of the material. Yes, and I was trying and

22:41

and and I had signed off for

22:43

a year, thinking okay, well

22:45

these things are going to run for that long. And

22:48

and after three weeks, well a rehearsal

22:50

period, and then three weeks you know,

22:52

every we have a toast on stage. You

22:54

know, well this didn't work, sorry everybody.

22:56

By and then I was stuck

22:58

with this apartment in New York and my kid in

23:00

school, and I would just like walk take

23:03

him to school and then walk up and down the sidewalks,

23:05

thinking what the hell am I going to do? What am

23:07

I? It was really I

23:11

was stuck with no work for about a

23:13

month, and then for some reason,

23:15

um Ethan Hawk gave me a call

23:18

and said, well, there's no money here at

23:20

all, but you want to come down and do a lie

23:22

of the mind with us down at the Group

23:24

theater. So that was something to work

23:26

on, and that got me out of my head, you know.

23:30

Oh. I talked

23:32

to Lorie a couple of months ago, just

23:34

before the recent cancelation of Roseanne.

23:38

After it all happened, I called to get

23:40

her take on ABC's decision. Lorie

23:43

declined to comment. Coming

23:46

up, we talked about what it was like to gather

23:48

the team, cast and crew

23:50

together. Again, this

24:02

is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to.

24:04

Here's the thing. Although

24:07

Lori Metcalf's heart is in the theater,

24:10

she's always cautious about what roles

24:12

she chooses. I did a roll of

24:14

the dice last year Doll's

24:17

House Part two, and that went well.

24:19

It went well, yes,

24:22

but I didn't know, um it was a

24:24

roll of the dice because when Scott Rutten

24:27

sent me the script and I thought, this

24:29

is either going to be really

24:31

really funny and clever or really bad.

24:34

The nerve that takes name's

24:36

name your play a Doll's House Part two and

24:39

Lucas Naith. I knew of him as a writer, but

24:41

I didn't know him. And I knew of Sam

24:43

Gold as a director, but I hadn't worked with him,

24:45

and the play wasn't finished. Yeah,

24:47

I mean it was finished, but it was really

24:49

raw, and that we were going to do

24:52

workshops and so it's

24:54

it's it's scary to go out on

24:56

that limb and commit yourself to something that you

24:58

have no idea how it's going to turn out.

25:00

But it had got Rouden behind it, so I knew

25:03

that it would be take care of. When

25:05

you and I did the Miller together,

25:07

you've done it a couple of times before, and

25:10

one of them was in London. Correct. Was

25:12

it different for you there? You find the difference between performing

25:14

there and in the United States, Well, I

25:17

did because it was at the National,

25:20

So the National is so specific.

25:23

Um. I loved the vibe that there's

25:25

these three theaters, the big, medium

25:28

and the small one, and they all feed into

25:30

this communal lobby and there's

25:32

a great restaurant there and everybody's having

25:34

drinks before their show and then the and

25:36

then the whole place just sort of uh

25:39

evaporate. Everybody goes into their

25:41

certain theater that they're seeing and

25:43

uh and then regroups at intermission and

25:45

then back again. It's got a real

25:48

flow to it that way. So I felt it

25:50

was cool to be a part of that specific

25:52

building. British cast and

25:55

mixed them with an American cast for when you did the Miller

25:57

over there it was mostly British. Yeah,

25:59

I difference in the way that they act rehearse.

26:03

Do they have a different approach? Would

26:06

you say it's the opposite of the stepping wolf approach.

26:10

I wouldn't call it rock and roll. Um.

26:13

Well yeah, quartet, yes

26:16

exactly. I like to be um

26:19

really uh um

26:22

theatrical if I can find moments

26:25

like where the characters theatrical, Yes, exactly.

26:28

When we built yes,

26:30

we built in some ourselves,

26:33

you know, where there's a shove, things

26:35

that aren't expected, those are theatrical

26:37

if they're not expected, I guess yeah.

26:40

Yeah. When we did all my sons, remember

26:42

we had Chris choke

26:44

me. Yeah, he would choke me. Yeah,

26:46

and we all thought, well, wowhoa, I don't

26:48

know if we should do that. I loved it.

26:51

I do too, because sometimes the trap when you're

26:53

working on a classic that

26:56

that is you feel like you have to treat

26:58

it with kid gloves. You know, you feel like you should wouldn't

27:00

make those big um

27:02

choices, that you should be more

27:05

reverential towards the material, but

27:07

that keeps it from being alive and

27:10

seeming contemporary. I

27:12

always wanted to sneak a camera on stage

27:14

with me for the very last

27:17

moments of our play because I had the

27:19

best ringside seat available to watch

27:21

your last monologue. I

27:23

wish I had done it because I'd like to have a

27:25

record of it, But of course I never did. But I

27:29

loved watching that every night. Right. It's

27:32

a great ending. It's a great

27:34

ending. You know. Now you did a play,

27:37

You did another play right after that. You

27:39

left that show to go do the

27:42

Stephen King. Oh

27:45

yes, And I asked your advice on that. Do you remember?

27:48

Well? But when you do plays with people who

27:50

this is your doing misery, misery

27:53

with Bruce Willis, who hadn't done a play in how long, like

27:55

thirty, He

27:58

hadn't been on stage in forty years.

28:00

He like, turn to you like a life preserver and say

28:03

to help me leading on

28:05

your baby. Was there some of that? Well?

28:07

We were codependent on each other because it

28:09

was basically two people. There

28:12

was a sheriff that showed up, but I shot

28:14

him dead, you know, towards the end

28:16

he no, he's not no. So

28:18

it was just the two of us and we,

28:20

you know, we relied on each other very

28:23

much, and Bruce worked his ass.

28:27

Yes, he had a wonderful time. Yeah,

28:29

thank god. I was worried because you know,

28:31

I didn't know if

28:33

your co lead is having a

28:35

bad time, you know, it's everybody's

28:38

miserable. But Bruce would show

28:40

up, you know, like an hour and a half early before the

28:42

shows. Of course, he had to get into a bunch of body

28:45

makeup because he'd been, you know, um

28:47

in an accident and he's got

28:50

his head's all banged up, and he's got scar

28:52

cuts and scars all over his legs. So

28:55

he was always the first one there. He was. Oh, he

28:57

all. We would do you know, like a seven

29:00

eight hour rehearsal day, and then he would go home

29:02

with uh the dialect coach and

29:05

drill lines over and over

29:07

and over again. He really really cared

29:09

about it, and U audiences

29:12

ate it up, you know. They It

29:14

was a different crowd than I've ever performed

29:17

for because it was a lot of first time theater

29:19

goers. Because they wanted to see

29:21

Bruce. They want to see an action hero on stage,

29:23

and and if they had to go, if they had

29:26

to go to theater to see him live, then

29:28

they went to the theater. So these were people

29:30

that hadn't been before

29:33

let alone on Broadway, and and and

29:35

the play itself,

29:39

you know, it stemmed from the book, and then it went

29:41

through the movie version, and now they're trying

29:43

to do it as a play. So it was this odd

29:47

journey. Yeah, and it ended

29:49

up being half this, half that, not

29:51

not any part of that though, and it

29:54

was just was its own animal. So

29:56

we tried to uh will

29:59

free Stephen Freer's son. We

30:03

tried to make

30:05

it also as funny as it

30:07

could be, because there was a lot of odd ball

30:09

humor in it, and audience

30:12

has got to kick out of that. But I it was

30:14

kind of a learning curve for me to wrap my head around

30:16

the fact that, you know, if the

30:18

script never was perfect, if

30:21

we were never perfect in

30:23

it, the audience was still having a

30:25

ball and and feeling like they were getting

30:27

their money's worth. I

30:30

always forget all the names of yeah,

30:33

really think yeah,

30:36

oh yeah. Oh. And and it sold well,

30:39

he sold the tickets. When

30:41

you think about plays, think

30:44

about a moment. And I'm sure there's

30:46

many of them, but try to think about a moment

30:48

of you on stage with someone or

30:50

another group of people, and in terms of

30:52

what acting means to you, well,

30:56

it was one that you just never can get out of here. And he thought,

30:58

this is it, this is what it's about out This

31:00

is what I got into this for. I don't

31:02

know. I'm not going to say a specific thing,

31:05

but it's the feeling of

31:07

being in such control

31:10

that you know that you've got a moment coming

31:13

up and it's like a big softball,

31:16

this big coming at you and you've got

31:18

to back this big and you're gonna hit

31:20

it out of the park. There's no doubt

31:22

about it. It's coming and boom

31:25

you get to do it, and you hear the immediate

31:27

reaction from the from the audience,

31:30

whether it's a laugh or whether it's a sob

31:32

whatever it is, or whether

31:34

it's a you can hear a pin drop. And

31:37

it's that control, I think.

31:40

And you've done your homework and you know exactly

31:42

what you're doing in that moment, and and

31:45

you know it's going to be a surprise to them,

31:47

and you know you'd like to be in the

31:49

audience with this thing coming up. And I

31:53

love that moment. I always tell people

31:55

when you when you when you see a play

31:58

that I've ever been in, I ruined play

32:00

people with me as I'll lean over and I go. I

32:03

didn't do it that way. I

32:06

had this thing I used to do with this bottle. I

32:08

mean I didn't. I didn't do it that way at all. You

32:11

gotta do another play. Haven't one up in the I got one

32:13

open right now. You're running in three

32:15

tall women, three tall women. You're doing three tall women

32:17

the Alby play, which I love. And it's you and

32:20

Glenda Jackson, I

32:22

know, I know, and Allison

32:24

Pill directed by Joe Mantello. How's

32:28

that been? It was a crazy hard rehearsal period.

32:30

I don't know what well. I've never done Alby,

32:32

so for some reason it was very I found it very

32:34

slippery. And again it's that trap.

32:37

I started falling into that trap of treating

32:39

a classic with kid

32:41

gloves, and so I had to take those gloves

32:44

off and just sort of um, play just

32:46

why why? Why? Why was it different? In terms of

32:48

my guesses And this is very lazy guess as

32:51

it all be. His characters are very waspy

32:53

and very cautious, and then and they're

32:55

not and then as volatile. That's

32:57

a part of it, yes, yeah, but

33:00

where where it's up and running now? And it

33:03

was a play that. Um, the audience

33:05

taught us a lot when

33:08

we finally got an audience in there. They

33:10

really were the missing piece of the puzzle of this

33:12

play. And now, um,

33:14

it's it's been very well received and

33:18

goes through June. You're never gonna get

33:21

up to give up doing the theater. I not the theater.

33:23

No, I could give up the other two, but

33:25

not the theater. The rush

33:28

is so visceral when you're when

33:30

you have those moments and

33:32

when you build it, you rehearse, you

33:34

live it, you live it, you live it. And I'm the kind of actor

33:37

where I'm fantastic four weeks after we

33:39

open, you come see the show after I'm

33:41

not ready by the time I rehearsal. I

33:43

think that's normal. I I feel

33:46

that I feel that I'm not either. I feel

33:48

like I got to get a few weeks after opening

33:50

under my belt. So so I appreciate

33:52

a long ish run. Now,

33:55

um, So, once upon a time you

33:57

did a TV show, and you

33:59

did this TV show, and I mean the

34:01

Norm McDonald show. That

34:04

that was a great show. I love him, by

34:07

the way, Yes, you

34:09

did the show with Roseanne bar and that

34:12

ran for how many seasons? Nine? You ran

34:14

for nine seasons. Now, that's

34:16

old school sitcommun If nobody you're

34:20

like, if you get five,

34:22

especially at the old

34:25

schedule, Yes, how would you describe

34:28

that experience? And you're much younger then, and

34:30

the show is a big phenomenon then and

34:32

then you come back. What

34:34

was it like when you did the show the first time? The first

34:36

time, well, the first time job,

34:39

I didn't know what if it was going to succeed

34:42

or not. I got offered this pilot. I

34:44

knew Roseanne is a stand up I

34:46

knew John Goodman had done a lot of theater, but

34:48

we all didn't know each other. There's three

34:51

kids on it, you know, and the

34:53

writers didn't necessarily know

34:55

how to write for each character.

34:57

And that was the combination

35:00

of us doing some initial

35:02

shows and the writers watching

35:05

what our strengths were created

35:08

those characters. They saw the strengths,

35:10

they started writing towards the strengths.

35:13

Someone pointed that out to me about Will and

35:15

Grace when I went on that show. They said, you know, in

35:18

the first season, if you watched uh footage,

35:21

if you watch old episodes of the first season,

35:24

none of them are really hitting those notes that they hit

35:26

later. They're finding those that

35:28

first year, they're stretching

35:30

and trying to find out what they want to do in terms of the crazy.

35:33

That's what it took. And so going back

35:35

to it literally thirty years

35:37

later, I mean from the first preview

35:40

from them, from the first pilot, it

35:42

was thirty years ago. From when it went off

35:44

the air was twenty years ago. So

35:46

going back to it, and we half of the

35:49

writing crew was the same, and

35:51

with some new people thrown in. So great

35:54

people, but like Norm had been on the

35:56

show and uh, and so they knew

35:58

those voices. Well, everybody

36:01

knew him. What am I saying? Even the new

36:03

writers knew those voices. And

36:05

so that was like riding a bike again.

36:08

So everybody came back, Yeah, everybody.

36:10

Everybody was happy to come back. Was a young woman's

36:12

name wol played the daughter who was on the talk show when I was forgetting

36:15

her name, Sarah Gilbert. She came back. Oh, she

36:17

initiated the whole thing. She

36:20

she had John on her show at

36:22

the talk and they did a little sketch,

36:25

like a twenty second sketch of them.

36:27

They recreated the couch with the afghan

36:30

and it was Darlene and John, and Darlene

36:32

was trying to come out to him and he just wanted

36:34

to watch baseball on TV or something like that, and

36:37

the and the audiences thought it was funny.

36:39

And then they asked John on the show

36:42

afterwards, would you ever do a reunion show?

36:44

And he said, of course I would. And then Sarah

36:46

took the ball and ran with it, called

36:49

Everybody, and it turned in from a

36:51

reunion show into a little nine episode

36:53

arc. Obviously

36:56

people who have made a big deal, which to

36:59

me, it's kind mystifying to me about

37:01

Rosanne Bars politics and

37:04

that she's a big Trumpian and

37:06

that her characters a Trumpian on the show.

37:09

When you're doing the show, I would imagine

37:11

I get the impression none of that comes up on the

37:13

set of the show. Everybody just having a good

37:15

time. Yeah, let's just get the work done, let's keep the funny

37:18

going. Exactly doesn't bring it

37:20

up, and they had to address

37:22

it, you know, how can you not in the pilot,

37:24

this new pilot, and I thought they did it

37:26

really well because, um, I

37:29

mean, we don't talk about names, but

37:31

we talk about there's a rift in the family because

37:33

of how how we all voted. The sisters haven't

37:35

talked to each other for a year, which is

37:37

something that's really going on, you know,

37:39

across the country. That's that's

37:42

uh, totally legit and

37:44

honest, I think to explore

37:46

and and then and then

37:49

what they it was the same as what they all used

37:51

to do with all of the stories. They

37:53

would take a big issue and then shrink

37:56

it down to the family. So

37:58

the rift becomes what is it between

38:00

these two sisters set

38:02

aside from the election that causes

38:05

them to, you know, to dysfunction like that.

38:08

So when you come back and you have the same group

38:11

of people, and everybody's older, and I mean

38:13

significantly older. It was many years ago you did

38:15

the show. You mentioned the writers. What

38:17

about the directors? I mean, did you get some of the directors

38:19

you had? We have some of the same directors.

38:22

Yeah. And the coolest thing is

38:25

that I thought I would sit on the side watching

38:27

a scene like between Sarah

38:30

Gilbert and her kid now

38:32

who's on the show, do

38:35

a scene in the on

38:37

the kitchen set, which is

38:39

a set that Sarah really did

38:42

grow up on and now she's

38:44

parenting her kids on that same

38:46

set, and Rosanne is in the scene

38:48

watching her parents, you know, and

38:50

being very judgmental about it. It's the kind

38:52

of history between characters

38:55

that you can't buy. You can cast

38:57

people together as a family, and they did

38:59

thirty years ago, but because we spent

39:01

that decade together, we really did become one.

39:04

And now as we revisit it,

39:06

there's these built in layers because

39:09

we're back in the same house and we've

39:11

had all that time

39:13

together. So it's I

39:15

think it's weirdly deeper the

39:17

second time around. And the

39:19

way that Roseanne had always set up that show

39:22

is that, um it was the

39:24

writing she wanted, a kind

39:27

of writing that was able to support

39:30

heavy issues for a

39:32

sitcom, for a multi cam sitcom,

39:34

I don't think of I don't know of any other one that

39:36

could go to the places that she did,

39:40

you know, and bring in a darkness sometimes

39:42

and really address things and not

39:44

have it be really jarring for the audience.

39:47

You know. She just that that

39:49

was set up perfectly, I think, so that

39:52

she could address issues that she wanted to

39:54

as as seasons went by,

39:57

until, of course, Rosanne was can

40:00

at the end of May. In

40:03

an interview, Lori

40:05

said Roseanne should do a play quote.

40:08

I'd like to watch her do something dramatic like

40:11

Tennessee Williams or Edward Alby. She'd

40:13

be brilliant unquote, while

40:17

we stay tuned for that. Lorie Metcalf herself

40:20

can be seen in Albi's Three Tall Women

40:22

on Broadway until June.

40:27

This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening

40:29

to Here's the Thing.