0:02

I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening

0:04

to Here's the thing. Everybody.

0:07

Welcome Alec Baldwin and Spike Lake. I've

0:13

been trying to get Spike Lee on this program

0:16

for a long time. Finally

0:18

we made it happen in front of a live

0:20

audience at this year's t Rebeca Film

0:22

Festival. The

0:25

deal was we would each engage the other

0:27

in a discussion about one of our favorite

0:30

movies of all time. Just listing

0:32

Spike Lee's films should be enough

0:34

to establish his place as one

0:37

of the deans of American movie making.

0:39

Do the right thing. Malcolm X, Jungle

0:42

Fever, She's got to have it. They

0:44

defined what it means to be black in America

0:47

and help Spike smash through Hollywood's

0:49

racial glass ceiling. And he's

0:52

still at it with this year's festival

0:54

favorite Black Klansmen, in

0:56

which I make an appearance alongside

0:58

stars John David Washington and Adam

1:01

Driver. And now our conversation

1:04

at Spring Studios in New York as

1:06

part of the Rebeca Film Festival.

1:09

We didn't rehearse any of this. First

1:11

of all, let me just explain to you what a

1:13

pain in the acid is to get him on

1:15

the phone. It is so painful to

1:19

pull him and text him and text him

1:22

really sunny. He calls me back like six, mus what's

1:24

up? If

1:28

I see a number on my phone, I don't

1:30

know the number, I don't pick up and

1:34

he has four numbers, tell

1:37

me. I mean, what

1:39

I want to know first is because

1:42

I think this helps you know these kinds of origins

1:45

help us understand this kind of film

1:47

appreciation. What was movie

1:50

going in your life when you were young, when you were

1:52

a child, Tell us where you grew up,

1:54

what kind of household you grew up in, and what was

1:57

the whole TV movie dynamics

1:59

of your consumption of that kind of stuff when you

2:01

were a child. I even I never knew that you'd even

2:03

make a film growing up. I grew

2:05

up in the Republic of Brooklyn. We

2:09

were the first black family to move into Cobble

2:11

Hill, which is a predominantly

2:13

a town in American Navy because Copple

2:16

is right by the docks, and the

2:18

docks were Italian American, and

2:21

uh, we got called nig a couple

2:24

of times first week, But once my

2:27

friends sold them, weren't a hundred of other black

2:29

families moving in behind me. Then

2:31

we were just cool after that, so nothe after that. And

2:33

then we my mother decided

2:36

we gotta stop paying rents, so we bought a Brownston

2:39

on a Fourth Green for

2:41

forty five thousand dollars. They

2:45

go for four million. Now what year

2:48

was that? Sixty? My

2:50

father grew up in four Queen on St. Jame's Place in Fulton's.

2:52

Yeah, so I

2:55

remember you. Now you're

2:59

a pain in the ask then too, I

3:01

couldn't get you on the phone back at eight either.

3:07

You were in four Green and sixty eight

3:11

because white flight had happened by then,

3:14

and people will move to Long Island. But

3:21

what's the first movie you saw on the big screen? The

3:25

first movie I can remember my mother took

3:27

me to see really quick. My

3:29

father hated movies, but

3:32

he loves sports. I got my love of sports from

3:34

my father. My mother loves

3:37

movies, but my since my father hated movies, I

3:39

was my mother's movie date. The

3:42

first film I can remember my mother

3:44

took my late mother take me to. She took me for

3:46

Eastern Sunday Race musical, So

3:49

Bye Bye Birdie. And

3:53

here's the thing though, that film impacted

3:56

me so much I even know it The opening

3:58

credit sequence would do the right thing. Rosie

4:00

PRIs dancing. That came from

4:02

by by Bertie

4:04

and Margaret. That's where it came

4:06

from. And I must have I must

4:09

have been like seven eight years old, but it just

4:12

came out of nowhere? Did I mean, this

4:14

is a cliche, I guess, But did that do something

4:16

to you the first time you saw a movie on a big screen? Did

4:18

you sit there and go? Yeah?

4:21

But I didn't want them. It's not

4:23

like at that moment,

4:27

but it was not who who? Who makes a movie?

4:31

So growing up, I

4:33

wanted to play a second base for New York Mets,

4:35

but genetics conspired against that happening.

4:38

That's where I changed over to the Yankees. But

4:40

anyway, I

4:43

wanted to be a porn star, but you didn't have inspired

4:45

against that too,

4:50

So I and I grew up wanted to be a

4:53

filmmaker. But I remember my mother taking

4:56

me to see uh mean streets

4:58

when Bunny and Clyde came

5:00

out. I

5:03

said, can I go? She said, I'm not taking you.

5:06

I went to see Buying Clyde. I had nightmares

5:09

for two weeks because I

5:11

mean, up to that point, there was never

5:13

violent shown like that, and that that shook

5:16

me for two weeks. There was groundbreaking the

5:18

pen. But the

5:21

reason why I chose On

5:24

the Ward from besides is one of the greatest

5:26

films ever, is because I became

5:28

very friendly with Bud Schilberg, the

5:31

great Great Bud Show. I

5:36

called him up. You

5:39

know, back then you called people

5:41

up. I called Stanley

5:44

Dining up, Colcazan

5:46

up. You get people on the phone. People don't

5:48

realize how much that happens in this business. And

5:51

you know, I was a young filmmaker, so you know. And

5:54

and in fact, I called

5:56

Billy Waller up. He said,

5:58

come on over. And I had

6:00

any time my go at people. I got my posters too, is

6:02

I got my postes, you know, just the

6:06

the sign but both

6:08

but But and I we worked on the script together,

6:10

and But lived to be ninety four

6:15

or five. But

6:17

when he was ninety we wrote a script

6:19

together called Save

6:21

It's Joe Lewis about this relationship between Joe

6:24

Louis and Max Schmellen and

6:27

his in In the last two years of life, he would

6:29

call me every week and say, Spike, did you get the

6:31

money yet? Did you get

6:33

the money yet? Because I had promised him that I was gonna make

6:35

this film before we passed. I'm gonna make

6:37

that promise happen. But we just couldn't

6:39

get together up. But it's amazing as an epic has

6:42

Hitler Gebels, fdr

6:45

on the Roosevelt, lenol Horn,

6:49

Joe Louis, Max Schmellon Sugar

6:51

Ray Robinson. I mean it's it's uh,

6:54

We're gonna get it done one day, you know now

6:57

when you when you talk about it

6:59

in the same is in my life where

7:01

I would watch movies and I thought that

7:03

movie stars were harvested

7:05

on another planet and they flew them down here

7:07

or something, you know. I I the idea that myself

7:11

or anybody like me could get into the movie business

7:13

was just absurd, you know, to me. And

7:15

when did that change for you? Meaning when did movie

7:18

making become a direction

7:20

that you wanted to set sailing? Oh? When I went

7:22

to college. I went to Morouse College in Atlanta,

7:24

Georgia, and my first two

7:26

years the house. My

7:29

first two years I was the

7:33

C plus

7:36

D minor student. What

7:39

was your major? I didn't have a major at

7:41

that point. And so before second

7:44

semest ended ended in my south ways

7:47

trying to go back to New York. But if

7:49

some of my advisor told me had to choose

7:51

the major when

7:53

I come back in the fall, And I said why

7:55

and my advisors said, because you have exhaust all

7:58

your electives. So

8:01

I came back to New York and it was a summer

8:04

ninth. There was an infamous summer nineteen seventy

8:06

seven. The

8:09

Yankees won the World Series. The first

8:11

summer disco heat was

8:14

horrible. Therefore you had the

8:16

blackout and

8:18

you had David Berkle. It's

8:21

on the stad so it's amazing. Many minutes later

8:24

I wrote the

8:26

Corona script with the Mike Criol

8:30

Victor Clochio called Summer

8:33

sam But anyway, New York

8:35

City was broke that summer. There's a famous

8:37

Daily News front page forward to New

8:39

York dropped dead. There

8:41

you go, you up

8:44

to that point. If you had your workers

8:46

permit, you get the job doing something. But

8:49

there were no jobs in New York City and

8:52

I and I didn't want to spend a whole summer playing

8:54

strata matic baseball on my stoop. So

8:58

at a still my friend

9:00

today, her name is if you had to Johnston, she was very

9:02

smart. She if you go to Stifers and you

9:04

had to be smart. The test

9:07

for New York City was Brooklyn Tech, Science

9:10

and Stuyverson. Brooklyn Tech

9:13

was it might down the block for me here science

9:17

and stops. She got in the I

9:19

mean she was smart. So one day

9:22

and I swear my mother's grave this

9:24

this was not a mistake. I

9:26

was sitting on my stoop nothing to do,

9:30

and the spirit told me, goes ce Vieta.

9:33

So I went to her house. She lived at University

9:36

Towers on on Waverley

9:39

No. Willoughby and uh will

9:41

it Willoughby and Ashland Cross

9:44

Street from l I U. So she's

9:46

studying. I mean she's studying the whole summer.

9:49

And so there's a box in the corner

9:51

of the room and I said,

9:54

what's that. She said, that's a Super eight camera. You

9:57

can have it. I said, was an other

9:59

box? She said, that's the

10:01

stupid that's the cartridge of the Super eight.

10:03

The goals into the thing, says you can have it. I'm

10:06

gonna be a doctor, so I don't need this. She

10:10

is a doctor. She went to Princeton

10:12

undergrad and with the Harvard Med School. So

10:16

that was not a mistake for

10:18

me to go. We at his house that day

10:21

so now it had

10:23

so now there's something to do. So I

10:25

spent the whole summer not

10:28

trying to be a filmmaker, but just shooting stuff.

10:30

So I shot The Blackout. It

10:32

was the first summer discos. Every weekend

10:35

there was a block party in DJs hook them their

10:37

turntables and

10:39

speakers to the thing and then, uh,

10:42

it was just a crazy summer. So I

10:44

came back to school in the fall

10:47

and declared my major. That's me a mask mun Case

10:49

is a major. Now more House didn't have that

10:51

major, so I so I took

10:54

master Cass across the street at Clark College.

10:57

So you had Spellman, Morehouse, Clark College,

10:59

Atlanta Versity, and Morris Brown,

11:01

these all black institutions really

11:03

in the same Mary in Atlanta. And

11:06

there's a teacher There's there's a professor his

11:08

name is Dr herbiker Berger, still

11:10

teaching there. And I told

11:12

him I had

11:14

this film I just shot from footage. I

11:16

don't know what to do with this, said, you make up feel with it. So

11:18

masthemd cases quickly with film,

11:20

TV, journalism

11:23

and broadcast, and

11:26

he said, make a documentary.

11:29

To make a documentary of the film. The film

11:32

end up being called last awesome Brooklyn. I

11:35

worked all semester on it, and

11:37

then many times when

11:39

he had he had the key to the film

11:41

lab, and twice

11:44

a week he would stay extra so

11:47

I could spent another four hours edited. And he wasn't

11:50

getting paid for it either extra. Why

11:52

do you think he did that he saw something

11:54

me. I didn't see it, right. What did he see

11:56

in you that you didn't see? I

12:02

don't know. I never asked him that

12:04

teaches are so important. I

12:06

mean, I think you're going to somebody giving you a

12:09

hand. Explain

12:14

that, by the way, because I mean, I don't want to just kiss

12:16

your butt here all day, all night long, but because that's very

12:18

easy to do. I mean, let listen, I'm gonna get I

12:20

don't wanna get emotional here. But like in this business,

12:23

there's just something. I mean, you look at people who are

12:25

talented, and you really it just it

12:27

humbles you, it quiets you.

12:29

You know, this man is one of the greatest movie

12:32

makers of the last fifty or seventy

12:34

five years in this country. Thank you, Thank you, expands

12:36

one of the greatest filmmakers alive. Thank

12:39

you ever. And so when

12:41

you that mentorship thing to explain

12:43

to people, which even was news to me up until

12:46

recently. You don't guest teach, you're

12:48

on the faculty and you teach a course every

12:50

year for how many years? Now, going on teams

12:54

a tenured film professor, you're

12:57

gonna get a paid check. Man fantastic

13:00

he had paid now. But the thing

13:02

is that both

13:04

my children went to n y U, so

13:07

that tuition ain't no joke. But

13:12

my mother was a teacher, my

13:14

late mother, she taught at St. Ann's in

13:16

Brooken Heights on the legendary seven Balls.

13:20

None of my grandmother taught. My

13:23

grandmother's grandma was

13:25

a slave. Yes, she graduated

13:28

from Spellman. My mother, my mother

13:30

graduated from Spellman, My grandmother

13:32

graduated Spellman. My father and grand

13:34

grandfather and grandfather graduated

13:36

from Warhouse. My father's a freshman.

13:38

Dr Martha Came was a senior martincme

13:40

the third and our classmates the class seventy

13:43

nine. But my grandmother taught

13:45

art the fifty years in

13:48

Atlanta, George and fifty years she never

13:50

had one white student because of the

13:52

Jim Crow laws and in in South,

13:55

specifically in Atlanta and the

13:57

fifty years, white students missed on the ate.

14:00

Our teacher and my

14:02

mother, my grandmother fifty years saved

14:04

their social Security checks for grandchildren

14:07

education. So says that

14:09

was the first grandchild. She

14:12

put me through more house and n y U just

14:15

accumulation of the social

14:17

Security checks over fifty years.

14:21

M and she gave me the seed

14:23

money for my my thesis

14:26

film, Joe's Best Side Barbershop We Cut

14:28

Heads is one which wanted due to kemmy ward and

14:30

a little bit money for us. She's gonna have it the first film.

14:33

But but even more important than the money,

14:36

and we gotta go, we gotta talk about the films even

14:38

more important. And here's the thing

14:39

though, here's

14:42

what I say when I when I speak in public, I

14:44

always say this, parents kill

14:47

more dreams than anybody,

14:50

so specifically if those

14:52

dreams that their children have had

14:54

to do with the arts. So

14:58

I grew up in a very artistic families.

15:01

So when I said my tory, but I

15:03

wanted to be a filmmaker,

15:05

nobody said, get the funk out of you're crazy. No black

15:07

filmmakers. You know, Melvin was

15:09

not around anymore. I wasn't making films. Ozzie

15:12

Daves, Oscar Show Oscar Showmen dead for

15:14

many of me the years, but I only got encouragement.

15:17

And so often when

15:21

a child a young adult

15:23

tells their parents, you know what, what

15:25

are you gonna major in poetry,

15:28

ballet, dance, photography,

15:31

whatever it is, they're like, now

15:34

they're black. Parents goes like this, as

15:38

long as your monkey has as black living

15:41

in my house, where are my

15:43

clothes? Eat my food? We

15:48

we didn't. We didn't take out a second more of the

15:50

house. And I mean

15:52

they got some points, you know, in my house

15:54

that played out like this. I'm going to g W

15:57

to study political science. I go up

15:59

to New York. Long story, but I go

16:01

my audition for the acting program and I

16:03

get accepted, and I'm going to go to the n y

16:05

U Acting program. And I explained to my parents

16:07

how it's actually gonna cost less

16:11

for me to go to n y U, even though it's more expensive

16:13

school, because I requalified for all this

16:15

New York State based loans and scholarships,

16:18

you know, region scholarship, things that I've forfeited

16:20

when I went to Washington. So I call my family and

16:23

I say, I'm gonna leave GW. I'm not gonna

16:25

go to law school. I'm gonna go to n y U and study acting.

16:27

And my mother, I means, she screamed like

16:29

a heart, like like like Jamie Lee Curtis in a horror

16:32

movie. She was like. My mother was like, are you out

16:34

of your mind? Are you insane?

16:36

She's screaming, and I go, no, no, I go listen,

16:38

I go. It's gonna cost you, guys, let's money. And my father,

16:41

let's hear him out. Let's hear him out.

16:44

Hear him out, Director

16:48

Spike Lee. He also teaches

16:51

in the graduate film program at

16:53

n y U. And when we return, we'll

16:55

do some analysis on our chosen films.

16:58

A Place in the Sun and on the

17:00

Waterfront. I'm

17:10

Alec Baldwin and you're listening to

17:12

Here's the Thing now, more of

17:14

my conversation in front of a live audience

17:17

at the Tribeca Film Festival with director

17:20

Spike Lee. Your films

17:22

obviously deal with a lot of themes of racial

17:25

injustice and stuff forth and struggle. Are

17:27

themes that are in your own films? Are

17:30

they in Waterfront as well? Yeah?

17:32

Amazon Anderson Cooper.

17:35

When this whole thing was happening, Kaepernick and

17:39

I watched on a ward from Again for the million

17:41

times and the stuff

17:43

that Kaepernick was saying with the same stuff

17:46

did did. Marlon Brando was saying, I

17:49

want my rights. And

17:52

you can see the mob was

17:55

the inn at the owners, because you

17:57

have when you have the shape up, had

18:00

the things that guy was giving out. And

18:05

here here's a motherfucker here in

18:07

the scene to get under

18:09

work the guy, the steward, whatever he has

18:11

to give you, like a coin. And

18:14

so after Marlon Brando, TERRYM.

18:16

Lloyd testifies against

18:19

Lee J. Cobb Friendly, Johnny

18:21

Friendly, he says,

18:24

fucking, I'm going back to work. So

18:27

he's standing there and

18:29

they're giving out a coin to everybody,

18:32

and then there's nobody there and

18:34

there's some rummy, some bump who's

18:37

has his hands over the

18:40

fire and they put

18:42

in and so I'm saying, the

18:45

NFL, these motherfucker's hired motherfucking

18:47

quarterbacks who are horrible. So

18:50

what they did the term Lloyd, they're doing the Kaepernick.

18:54

They were I don't want to say the guy's name.

18:56

The guy had retired Chicago

18:58

Bears quarterback, Go ahead

19:01

say his name. They

19:05

took him my retirement, gave him a ten million

19:07

dollar contract. He was horrible. Kaepernick

19:11

still can't get a job so

19:14

it was amazing. I mean,

19:16

but Schilberg was a visionary.

19:19

And when I saw what they were doing

19:22

that Terry malloy, it was the same thing, and that was

19:24

doing the Kaepernick. I

19:26

think that there's a lot

19:28

of legend and lore about that film.

19:30

And you know these stories of everybody's

19:33

heard a million times about Brandon

19:35

doesn't do the off camera for Snicker

19:38

and all that crap, and you know, all that stuff which is not that important

19:41

is the movie about Kazan's

19:44

Mia Colpa for you know, ratting it. I'm

19:47

glad what I've done to you, John Friendly, I'm gonna

19:49

keep on doing it, he says, you know you

19:51

know that that no apologies for that. But

19:53

for me, it's like, you know, Brandon

19:56

was someone who was did you know Brandon?

19:58

Yeah, I met Branda time I was gonna

20:00

do I was in this

20:02

wheel of my life where c

20:05

you know, CBS was gonna pay people

20:07

big money to do these m ow's, the old m

20:09

o W we're gonna do. We did. I did street

20:11

Car on Broadway, which we wound up doing on

20:14

a for TV. No no, no, no,

20:16

no that, but we do we do a

20:18

street car and brought we do on TV. But that was a waste

20:20

of time. But they paid everybody a lot of money. But

20:22

like, why do it for TV when it's in the in the movie,

20:25

his movie? And so I go see him because they want to do

20:27

Canton a hut tin roof and they want him to play Big

20:29

Daddy, but they're not going to insure him. Long story

20:32

short, as I go to his house, there's a true story. I

20:34

go to his house up on Mulholland

20:36

and I go there to beg him to do Canton,

20:38

notts and roof if they will ultimately

20:40

insure him, which they wouldn't, And I mean,

20:42

I'll do my my my tepid

20:45

Brando impersonation. But I said, uh,

20:47

I said, uh, you

20:49

know, I you know, one thing led to another.

20:51

I had lunch with her for four hours, and I

20:53

said, uh, uh you know, I did street

20:55

Car on Broadway. Uh. You know, like it was like six

20:58

or seven years before I heard

21:00

about that from some friends of mine that you did

21:02

that. I heard you

21:04

were very good or not yes, And

21:07

I heard you were very funny. And

21:09

I wish I had done more

21:11

of that because it's a very funny part and

21:14

the character of Fanley is very funny

21:16

and I wish I had found more of the humor myself.

21:19

And there's a pause, and I went, but it

21:21

worked out pretty well for you just to say it. Woun't you say?

21:23

I mean, I mean, I

21:26

mean it went okay. Don't you think for how

21:28

it went over, you know, in the for the public, and

21:31

uh, but it's uh, I met

21:33

him just that one time, and uh, but what you

21:36

see, he's interesting to me because there's

21:38

a couple of guys. I mean, I'm gonna talk briefly

21:41

about it from the actor's standpoint, which which

21:43

I can't help. But you know, but Gina was obviously

21:45

a big beacon for me. And there's those moments. There's

21:48

always a moment, uh, you know,

21:50

John Mandolfice in the hospital and Serpico

21:53

has got the bullet hole in his face and John

21:56

Mandow puts the gold shield on him and he doesn't

21:58

want the gold helped to become a detective,

22:01

and finally he gets it in Macino, just

22:03

he erupts into this moment, this momentary

22:06

sob this gasp of agony

22:08

for just a moment of his

22:10

suffering, and I just thought to myself, this is why

22:12

I want al maybe want to be an actor as much

22:15

as anybody, as much as anybody, but Gina

22:17

was the one that maybe one

22:20

when he was one of them, you know, Yeah, dog Day Surprico

22:23

was one of my favorites. But and Brando

22:25

to Brando of course gets into

22:28

that zone where he doesn't

22:30

care. You know, he's a prodigy and he puts all

22:32

the pieces together when he's twenty four years old. Brando

22:34

did a streetcar and brobery when it was twenty four. I did

22:36

it when I was thirty four.

22:39

He I never met him. You never

22:41

did call me up two o'clock in the morning and

22:47

uh, I'm not gonna do imitational.

22:50

But he wanted me to do a film a

22:52

Native Americans. And

22:56

I've never heard from after that. Well

22:59

he yeah, yeah, and then I found lady. He would

23:01

call people late, but Tidy got

23:04

my number and I unbelieve it was him at first.

23:06

But my favorite line he said to me was I sit

23:08

in his house and I'm terrified with him. I'm terrified,

23:11

terrified. I meet people who are my peers, you

23:14

know, and my generation of actors, and I

23:16

admire some of them incredibly, but

23:18

it's different when you meet Kirk Douglas or Gregory

23:20

Peck and some of these guys I met. I mean, I was like, I literally

23:23

pissed my pants when I met Gregory Peck and

23:25

uh like almost literally and uh

23:28

um. And then I'll never forget. I'm in Brando's

23:30

house and he said to me, he says, he says, you

23:32

know, you and I are like two dogs

23:36

that are sniffing each other. He

23:41

said, you're sniffing me

23:44

and I'm sniffing you. And he

23:46

said, and oh god, oh god,

23:48

I hate that. I hate that. He said,

23:50

So you say whatever you want to say, and

23:53

I'll say whatever I want to say. I mean, just really, he

23:55

just didn't want anybody to play him.

23:58

He hated that, you know, I mean, and it was, it was. It was

24:00

an amazing day. I have a day I spent

24:02

with him now. Um

24:04

So in Waterfront. One of the other

24:06

things I love about this film is that is that you

24:09

know, Kazan, having directed in the theater,

24:11

he knew that you had to set

24:14

the table with every detail in

24:16

terms of the acting in their performances. That there was one

24:18

week link in the chain. I'm talking

24:20

about Fred Gwynn

24:23

when I later wanted to play Herman Munster with a small

24:25

role Lee

24:27

J. Cobb and one of his greatest roles. One

24:29

of the great great great actors in

24:31

history, Lee J. Cobb, Steiger, great great

24:34

actor Maori

24:37

s her FIRSTRMORI sat of course. I mean the

24:39

the acting is superlative

24:41

from one end to the other. In that cast. It's

24:43

it's mind blowing. It's and and uh two

24:46

ton Tony Galento. You know it

24:48

was Bud that got all those

24:51

Xbox Boxers in the film because he knew

24:53

them. Yeah, I mean, just the acting

24:55

is breathtaking. But also what I what I

24:57

love is that. Uh.

25:00

Also what I love is it it so nothing

25:04

on the screen really in terms of set

25:06

design, in terms of costume

25:10

it's it literally is the closest I've

25:12

ever seen to a motion picture

25:14

that behaves like radio, where

25:16

you only focused on the ideas. You're

25:19

not thrown by a lot of pizzazz and a

25:21

lot of shots and a lot of it's so

25:23

straight ahead and so honest. You as a

25:25

filmmaker when you first saw the

25:27

film, what did you think of it as a movie? How you put

25:29

together a movie? I loved it, and I

25:32

gotta give love the Lennon Bernstein score amazing

25:37

and for me it is one. I know, we gotta get to your

25:41

your selection. But what it has for

25:45

one of the most amazing endings

25:48

of the movie with the score, and

25:51

they brought in James Wang Han the greats

25:53

and photographer to be in the roller skates. Boris

25:56

Kaufman was the cinematographer. But you see

25:58

they brought in James wang How I didn't know that

26:00

he did that shot. Wow, that's amazing. Brando's

26:02

peel v as he's walking towards

26:05

the guy and you see everybody

26:07

goes and stumbles in. Everybody

26:10

goes in behind him and

26:12

they see the gate clothes and you see, uh

26:16

yeah, called Maldon and you recently

26:18

walk out. I mean that that

26:21

and a

26:24

lot of great lines in that movie that

26:27

uh

26:27

um. I

26:30

still quote Brando whenever

26:32

my wife would say to me. You

26:34

know, she'd said

26:36

to me, you know, when are you gonna take me to dinner or whatever?

26:39

The line buzz And you know, Brando's got the line in the

26:41

in the bar with the gun and

26:43

he says, it's none of your business. You

26:48

have to say that line of people like that will not work

26:50

in the Lee household. Let me tell you that it's

26:54

none of your business,

26:57

one of your your own business,

27:00

Lewis Lee. Uh. Now,

27:04

now another person in this film who I thought

27:06

was that I really was taken by

27:09

was the art director. You know what I do work

27:11

I do on TCM and things like that where I get into

27:13

these details. Richard

27:16

Day, who did the art direction on this film,

27:18

was nominated. I think I don't have the statistics

27:21

in front of me. He was nominated for like nine Academy

27:23

Awards and won many

27:25

Academy Awards for for a career that spanned

27:28

from Dark Angel and Dodsworth

27:31

and dead End in the thirties and

27:33

to how Green was My Value?

27:38

And then it goes onto street Car and

27:40

Waterfront in in the in the in the fifties, and

27:42

this guy one oscars over

27:44

the arc of like a two

27:46

decades and uh.

27:49

And of course Leonard Bernstein score, which

27:52

uh, you know, the New

27:54

York Philharmonic has a program that I'm the co producer

27:57

I called the Art of the Score, which we played

27:59

the music. I have to picture, particularly

28:02

films that have classical repertoire, with Kubrick

28:04

being the uh, the ultimate example

28:06

of that, and showing films like you went to Science say

28:09

again, went the Bronx very exactly exactly

28:11

Kubrick, you know two thousand and one,

28:13

which we're showing again for the second time next

28:15

year, Barry Linded and so forth. But we've

28:18

also played films where to have they just have lush,

28:21

non classical score. Although

28:23

burn Steins part of that world, and

28:25

we showed Waterfront and and the Philharmonic played

28:27

Waterfront In said though he didn't like

28:30

the way he wrote more music

28:32

than was put in. Yeah,

28:35

so he wasn't happy with the way

28:37

now turn out. Can

28:40

we talk about Shelley Winters. You Go, You

28:42

Go is

28:45

amazing in

28:48

a place in the sun, and when

28:50

I saw her role, automatically

28:53

automatically thought about her and Night of

28:55

the Hunter. It's

28:57

almost like the same, this

29:00

magic woman

29:02

that just can't get it right and with the wrong guy,

29:04

and she

29:07

got murdered. In both films. Here's

29:10

Cliff gleaming with his beauty and she's gleaming

29:12

with her beauty. But the acting of Shelley Winters,

29:14

her performance is unbelievable in

29:16

this movie. She's incredible, But there are very

29:18

few people. You can't shoot

29:21

two people this close. And the famous

29:23

kissing scene between Montgomery Clift

29:25

and Elizabeth Taylor. You can't shoot two

29:27

people that close and hold

29:29

the camera that close for too long unless

29:31

you have two perfect

29:33

looking people. And in this

29:35

film you have the you have the most beautiful

29:38

man, or one of them that ever lived in the history of the

29:40

movies, and the most beautiful woman. I mean, it's

29:42

it's like a cinematic like

29:44

a confection, you know. I mean, in terms of

29:46

the delight you feel from watching

29:48

these people. The scene when they meet and

29:50

he's shooting pool at the party and she walks

29:53

in. I mean, there's there's there's so much

29:55

for the eye. There's so much beauty in

29:57

this film and just flat out

30:00

uti between these two people. And

30:02

then beyond that is this horrible drama

30:04

of what happens to to him and to Shelley

30:07

Winter. There's no spoiler alert here, but

30:10

it's this film. The first time

30:12

I ever saw this film, I remember he's

30:15

on a television I think. I mean a lot of these films

30:17

I saw on TV because when I was a kid, Channel

30:19

nine, right there you go. I

30:22

mean, people, I always say the same tired thing

30:24

all the time about this, but you know, no HBO, no VS,

30:26

VCRs. When I was a kid, it

30:29

was Channel eleven, Channel five, and Channel

30:32

uh nine would make licensing agreements

30:34

with a studio. Probably i'd of a cycle. Do you remember,

30:41

Okay, I'm gonna come out a million dollar movie

30:44

with the theme from Gone with the Wind. So

30:46

I see this movie on TV and I remember, like, it's

30:49

not even about sexuality, I don't think, but just kind

30:51

of sitting there with my mouth up and going, oh

30:53

my god. You know, I

30:55

think I'd probably kill Shelley Winters for Elizabeth

30:58

Taylor too. And that's

31:01

not a hard choice, but

31:05

that but that movie doesn't mean you hear you've got the

31:07

guy though they both played that. I mean, Elizabeth

31:09

Taylor was a breathtaking actress, and

31:11

and and and Clift was it was it was a brilliant actor.

31:14

And then you see the juxtaposition between

31:18

Sheldon win Is, you know, a lower lower class

31:20

and you know that feels really about classism.

31:23

Even though Montgomery is

31:26

Eastman, he's like not

31:29

really part of the real family, so he's

31:32

trying to get up the ladder.

31:34

Two, I have to take advantage of you

31:36

being here for this kind of thing. Now, what do you do

31:39

when you direct the film? Because

31:41

they always say that the directors then

31:44

and now. It's always been the same

31:46

that they cast. Well, you

31:48

try your best to get who you want for the role.

31:51

You have a dream cast, and you try

31:53

to get them in terms of their availability, and there there

31:56

there there their desire to be in the film, and can

31:58

you afford them, and so all those things come together,

32:00

which I want you to speak about for people to understand

32:02

what an extraordinarily difficult thing

32:05

that is to do. I meaning, you're you're

32:07

gonna make a film, Spike Lee is gonna

32:09

make a film, and you're gonna have anybody in your

32:11

films. People are begging to work with you, and

32:14

sometimes you don't get who you want in

32:16

the film. True. Well, since

32:19

we are here at the Tribeca

32:22

Film Festival, the

32:25

role of sal I

32:28

offered to Mr de Niro, You

32:30

want to do it, that son of a bitch.

32:33

No, I think it's Daniel.

32:37

You got nominated, and

32:40

I think that, which

32:42

I mean, I love Bob and I wanted

32:44

my film, but de

32:47

Nirol might have tilted.

32:49

It was meant to be asemble piece do

32:53

the right thing. You mean you had two

32:55

taro, I

32:59

mean every was in it, but no one's

33:01

really Richard Edson

33:04

the Great Ruby, d Ozzy Davis.

33:07

You no but Sam

33:09

Sam Samuel Jackson and he was

33:11

saying back then, and Carlo Jean

33:13

Casposito, Rosie

33:15

Perez. That's her first film is

33:18

Martin Lawrences first film, Robin Harris first

33:20

film, The Late Robin Harris. So

33:23

it's been my experience things

33:27

happen for the most part the way it should be, because

33:29

that's not the only time where I wanted someone

33:33

and I didn't get them and it turned

33:35

out for the best

33:37

because I got somebody who

33:39

just fits better. So and it also like its

33:42

like a sports team, you know. I

33:45

mean one year the Lakers head like by

33:48

all stars starting, they were terrible because

33:51

it was no there's no chemistry and everybody's

33:53

gonna be starting. Everybody can't

33:55

be like it just needs

33:57

to come together. It's interesting

34:00

because you hear that across the board.

34:02

You have an ensemble of people and if you change

34:04

one little thing, it would upset the

34:07

now. Now without naming names, because one

34:09

of my goals into you know, embarrassing anybody. But

34:12

when you make films as a as a director,

34:14

and your films are dramas,

34:16

they're they're they're they're acting, is at

34:18

the four. You don't do action films

34:20

and space movies and all this other crap. I'm

34:23

sorry, I didn't mean that. Um

34:25

Um,

34:28

what I meant was, uh, because

34:33

we love space movie, let's face.

34:36

But when you're directing, what is

34:38

directing performance for you? Now? Because

34:40

like, you bring these people in, and you bring people

34:42

who are going to play the role, and you you assume

34:45

they're pretty good to go. But what happens when it's

34:47

not working? How involved are you involved?

34:49

And like walking up to people, take them aside and go, hey

34:51

man, this is what I need in the

34:53

scene. Yeah, but you can't have to be done

34:56

you know, in a whisper if

34:59

you do that, I felt you're

35:01

gonna lose actor, even if you take him

35:03

aside and do it. Know what I'm saying, It has to be done

35:06

private exactly. I agree with you. Oh no, it should

35:08

be private, you know. So

35:11

you really here's the thing, don't you

35:14

try to head that stuff off in rehearsal.

35:18

You can't be on the on the day

35:20

while you're shooting hundred of people, you

35:22

know, crew members, and you're discussing the character

35:24

and the ark all that stuff. That stuff has to be worked

35:26

out in rehearsal. But sometimes

35:31

whether I'm having a bad dare actor having a bad

35:33

day, things that happen. You're just trying to go through it, but

35:39

and make sure that at the end we're done

35:41

that we talked. So you gotta

35:44

get you gotta work that shipped out so it's squashed,

35:48

done with and you could continue in good

35:50

spirits. I'm reminded of my dear,

35:52

dear friend who passed away, Marvin Worth. You

35:54

know, Marvin Bruduce Malcolm X. Give

35:57

me an example. Maybe he's one producers

36:00

who actually contribute to help you make the movie you

36:02

want to make. Marvin

36:06

bought the rights to

36:09

the autobiography of

36:11

Malcolm X, as told by Alex Haley.

36:15

I mean really

36:18

really many years ago, and he's

36:20

been trying to make it. Set

36:22

lamed a whole bunch of people. One time, Richard

36:24

Pryor supposed to play him,

36:27

and he

36:30

said, he sent me letters saying

36:34

you want to be involved as film, So I never I never

36:36

got the letters. So then

36:39

I was reading the papers that

36:42

Denzel Washington was gonna play Malcolm

36:45

X. He had already done the play a Broadway When Chickens

36:47

Come When Chickens Come Home, The roost and

36:50

the director was gonna be Norman Jewison,

36:55

and I said to myself self, hold

36:58

the funk up. Yeah, and

37:02

Norman great

37:04

director in the Heat and the Night. I

37:06

mean he's done many, many fine films. And

37:13

I just began to talk about a little bit and then

37:15

Marven Worth called me, says, Spike, stop

37:17

talking. Let's

37:20

have you and Norman sit

37:22

down, and

37:24

so we

37:26

we met. I mean, this is not a new story,

37:29

it's old. And uh,

37:33

Norman want to note why I want to do it?

37:36

And I told him and he gracefully

37:38

said, okay. He didn't have to do

37:41

that. He had the gig. He

37:43

was a director, he was the one the Marvel

37:45

Worth chose and also Warner Brothers.

37:49

So I've always

37:51

had the respect for Mr Jewison

37:53

because he could have said,

37:55

fuck you, Spike, I don't care who

37:58

you are. I'm directing this feel. But

38:00

there are producers and this is I guess what my

38:02

question is, because a lot of people that that's an

38:04

intangible for a lot of people. What producers do beyond,

38:07

as they say, bringing a vital element to the table,

38:09

the script, the star, the money from the studio.

38:11

They've got the juice with the studio, what have you. But

38:14

there are producers who have actually have they've helped you make

38:16

your films. If they've they've contributed to man,

38:19

there's no way pout. I've been involved. I was directed

38:22

Malcolm X without the late great Marvin

38:24

Worth. I went to a screening. Marvin

38:27

invited me to a screening, uh

38:30

at the Academy in uh,

38:32

not the DJ but the Academy, you know, one of the

38:34

great great screening rooms in all of Los Angeles,

38:36

which is saying a lot. And then we

38:39

went to that screening of Malcolm X

38:41

there and uh, I gotta say,

38:43

it's one of your greatest films. That's a great, great film,

38:45

Malcolm X. You had

38:47

a great job. All that goes to Mr

38:49

Denzel Washington. I know

38:51

we're talking all the films. I have to just say this real quick

38:53

because tomorrow let's see Denzel

38:56

Washington. Dad the opening of Life

38:58

coming coming four three

39:00

curtain call. It's

39:03

like a nine right, ye,

39:06

not that long. But people

39:09

ask me all the time, you know, we uh,

39:12

Denzel more better Malcolm

39:15

X. He got game inside man.

39:17

So it's been a minute. But Denzel

39:20

people asked me about his performance. He

39:24

prepared a year before. He

39:26

told his agent, don't give me any more work,

39:30

learned to praying Arabic, speaking Arabic,

39:33

learning to read the Koran, cut

39:35

out pork, cut out alcohol,

39:38

because he

39:41

under Denzel understands that just

39:45

sounded like somebody or

39:49

looking like that's just surface and

39:52

he and he knew that if he did

39:54

the job need to be done,

39:57

that Malcolm's spirit will

40:00

come into him. I put my hand

40:02

on a stack of Bibles. There was a scene.

40:05

All the speeches in the film were Malcolm's

40:07

words, and there was one

40:10

speech. I mean, he was

40:12

killing it and I'm looking at him. I got the mom

40:14

to him looking at Ernest right here, my great

40:17

cinematograher, Ernest Dickinson. So I

40:19

see that, to see him looking

40:21

at the sides. And the scene

40:23

is about the end. Some

40:25

great called cut and he keeps going, we're

40:28

shooting film, and he went off another two

40:31

minutes and finally

40:33

Ernest a Spike. We ran out. So

40:36

I woke up to Denzel. He's almost like

40:38

in a daze. I

40:40

said, d what was that? So

40:44

what are you doing? He said, Spike, I don't know. I

40:47

can't tell you what I just said. That

40:50

ship can't happen if you don't prepare for it. He

40:53

worked a year and

40:56

and and asked anybody was on the set

40:58

that day? We thought we saw Malcolm

41:00

Front. Do you know? You know what I love about that film? Also,

41:03

it's tough sometimes if you play if

41:05

the film calls for an actress,

41:08

a woman to play that

41:10

role of the wife of

41:12

the the you know, it's a supporting

41:14

role. And uh,

41:17

what I love was I thought, if Angela La

41:19

Bassett was my wife, nothing

41:21

I couldn't do either, you know, and brought

41:24

it. She was so wanted. Angela

41:27

Bassett is such a great actress and she's

41:29

so wonderful on that film. So I understand

41:31

that we're gonna take some questions.

41:34

You know, what's up? Spoke? My

41:37

name is Chris, I'm from Virginia, and

41:39

I just wanted to ask you what

41:41

do you think of Black Panther? My

41:43

brother, I've

41:48

seen it four times

41:50

me too. I

41:53

look at the world now differently before

41:55

Black Panther and at the Black Panther that

41:58

that should change everything, especially

42:00

for people of color. Now, wait a second,

42:03

I mean I think in these times, in these modern

42:05

times where we're trying to all be more sensitive and more

42:07

inclusive, don't you want to know what I thought

42:09

a black panther? I

42:13

mean, do

42:15

you want to ask me? Go ahead,

42:22

I was actually gonna ask you about Infinity Wars

42:24

and yeah,

42:26

my brother, you

42:29

bought the catsups. You know it was the down. We're

42:32

give us the next question. Next question, can

42:37

you tell us a little bit about your new movie,

42:40

The Black Clansman and what that's based

42:42

on. The Black Clans was based

42:44

on the book my Man Hair is

42:46

in It. Ron

42:50

Stalwarf was the first after

42:52

American policeman in Carrell

42:55

Springs. He ended up

42:57

infiltrating the clan reading

43:00

the paper, and the clan put

43:02

it at in paper when we need

43:04

new members. So ron

43:08

Stalward thinks as a joke, you

43:11

know it's a Google. So she calls up and

43:14

thinking as a joke, he

43:17

leaves. They don't pick up as a voicemails.

43:19

He leaves his real name and

43:22

phone number, and

43:24

the clan calls back and

43:27

said, we want you to come down for inter of you. So

43:30

since he's an African American, he

43:33

can't really show up for

43:35

the inter of you, so he has to

43:37

sin, my

43:39

man, is that a Boston Red Sox hat? There? Thank

43:44

you? Row

43:46

seven twelve, Row

43:49

seven that

43:52

be oh boy, So he

43:54

has to get a

43:56

white police officer to play him.

43:59

That's Adam dry Her And

44:01

so we're in official

44:04

competition that can and

44:06

it opens August tenth, so check

44:09

it out. And who plays the lead? The

44:12

lead is played by John David

44:14

Washington, Denzel's eldest son.

44:16

Denzel's son. You might

44:19

have seen him in Ballers. We

44:21

have time for one more, one more um

44:23

in the scope of all of your projects, what is

44:26

the work that has been most transformative

44:29

and what is the legacy that you hope to leave. She

44:32

was actually looking at you. She

44:35

pretended it was for both of us, but she was looking

44:37

right at you when she said that it's okay,

44:40

It's okay. I would say I

44:44

did a documentary called Full

44:47

Little Girls, which

44:49

is about the bombing of the nine three

44:52

Birmingham Church, the sixth Street Baptist Church,

44:54

and Broma, Obama. Full of girls were killed. Jago

44:58

who were in the and FBI knew

45:01

who did it a week after. One

45:03

of the guy's name was Donna Mine Bob.

45:06

His nickname was Dna night Bob. And

45:09

for many years the case was

45:12

cold and

45:16

before the film opened at the film form,

45:18

Karen Cooper and

45:21

a couple of days before the open the FBI

45:23

called me and they

45:25

said, want to see the film.

45:29

The day after the film opened, they

45:32

reopened that case. After

45:34

many, many years, they

45:37

went to trial. It was Motherfucker's

45:39

died in prison. True

45:48

story. They

45:50

they killed, murder those full little

45:52

girls and just

45:54

went about their lives, you

45:57

know, and they died in I

46:00

think I don't know how many wanted to, but they

46:04

died in prison. Well,

46:08

I mean, this is gonna sound corny and sound stupid.

46:12

When I was on my phone by the way a moment ago, trying to look up

46:14

something about him, and my wife, who's here, texted

46:16

me and said, put your phone down. She

46:20

literally texted me, she wrote, enough

46:23

with the phone. My

46:26

legacy is not really that much about Honestly,

46:29

I don't really think about the work I do that much. It

46:31

comes and goes. It's sand castles, you

46:33

know, I mean, the ocean comes. It's the moment

46:35

you have with people. I'm doing The

46:37

Edge with Tony Hopkins, and

46:39

he and I would have lunch together and we would

46:42

do dueling Richard Burton impersonations

46:44

together over lunch. And I'll never forget

46:46

that to the day I die, and I wanted

46:48

to work with him, and he called me recently I had me comeing to a

46:50

movie with him, and it was it was really, I mean

46:52

it was. We did one day I shot this little thing.

46:54

I won't give it away, but what a great honor

46:56

it was to get good. I

46:59

did a movie with Ed Norton. Ed directed this wonderful

47:01

movie mother Lis Brooklyn. I'm in this crowd with people

47:04

I worship, you know, uh Cherry Jones

47:06

and Connavali and uh

47:08

Willem to poe him on the set with him

47:11

going oh man, this is what it's all about. You know. To me, it's

47:13

who you work with. I got to do a Good Shepherd

47:15

with Bob Denier would walk up to

47:17

me and uh Matt Damon and

47:20

he would talk to me, and literally, after

47:22

like thirty seconds, I would I mean, I couldn't hear

47:24

him. I went deaf. Oh the movie starts

47:26

screening it in my head and he talked

47:28

to me, give me the direction. I look at my go. I'm sorry because

47:30

you repeat that. I wasn't listening to a word you said. Just now,

47:34

Hey, look at me go. You're very good, Alec, very

47:38

good to be with those people,

47:40

to be with them, And with that in mind, would you

47:42

all please join me in thanking our guests.

47:45

One of the greatest movie makers in history.

47:47

Thank you, thank you,

47:50

thank you. Spike

48:00

Lee's Black Klansmen will be in theaters

48:03

August tenth.

48:05

I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening

48:07

to Here's the Thing, M