0:02

Welcome to the History Extra podcast,

0:05

fascinating historical conversations

0:08

from BBC History Magazine

0:10

and BBC History Revealed. The

0:18

Luddites are best known for

0:20

smashing up industrial machinery. But

0:23

what did these 19th century activists

0:26

actually want from their destructive actions?

0:29

And why was their folkloric founder, Ned

0:31

Ludd, most memorably

0:33

depicted wearing a polka dot dress?

0:36

Speaking to Emily Briffitt, Professor

0:39

Katrina Navakas answers listener

0:41

questions on the years of civil unrest

0:44

that saw the rise and fall of

0:46

the Luddites, a movement made

0:48

up of textile workers whose livelihoods

0:51

were under threat from the innovations

0:53

of the Industrial Revolution.

0:56

Hi Katrina, thank you so much for joining

0:58

me today. Hi Emily, it's great to be

1:00

here. Who were the Luddites?

1:03

So historically the Luddites were

1:06

a movement of workers who

1:08

broke machinery during the Napoleonic

1:11

Wars, so from about 1811 to about 1816, and they

1:13

did so in the industrial regions of

1:18

England.

1:19

Where does the term Luddite

1:22

come from? What does it actually mean?

1:25

So this is a tale of mystery

1:27

and folklore, I think, where the term Ludd

1:29

comes from. So I think there's various

1:32

opinions, but people

1:34

try and pin it on a guy called Ned

1:36

Ludd, who existed

1:38

in the 1770s in Nottinghamshire,

1:41

and in that first wave of industrial

1:44

development in the Midlands, this

1:46

man, Ned Ludd, broke

1:49

some machinery in the stocking

1:51

industry.

1:51

So we think that perhaps

1:54

people remembered that in folklore

1:57

and oral telling,

1:59

and then they they continued to

2:01

use that word, lud, as

2:03

a symbol, as a mythical

2:05

figure for anyone who breaks machinery.

2:09

So his story was fictional.

2:11

He probably existed originally,

2:14

but he didn't lead a movement

2:16

in the 1770s. It only became a

2:19

movement known as the Luddites in 1811.

2:24

So can you just take us right

2:26

to the beginning where and when

2:29

exactly did it all start?

2:31

So it all started in

2:33

a village called Arnold, which is in Nottinghamshire.

2:37

And in March

2:40

1811, a group of about 60 men

2:43

that we know of broke some stocking

2:46

frames. So these are the new

2:48

machines that were designed to

2:51

knit stockings. So in

2:53

the 18th and 19th century, we

2:55

didn't really have socks. We had

2:58

stockings, and all people would wear

3:00

stockings. So it's actually a major industry

3:03

in the East Midlands. And about 60

3:06

stocking frames were broken in

3:08

March 1811, and that's

3:11

where the movement started. And

3:13

it spread from Nottinghamshire

3:15

across the East Midlands in the

3:17

early part of 1811. So

3:21

by November 1811, there

3:23

were quite violent outbreaks

3:26

against this new machinery. In

3:28

Bulwell in Nottinghamshire, there was a Luddite

3:30

who was shot by the military

3:32

for attempting to break

3:34

into the house of one of his

3:36

employees. So there's

3:39

a growing movement against machinery

3:42

in 1811, 1812 that starts to become this big

3:46

movement. What

3:48

is the historical context behind

3:51

this? What was the Luddite's primary

3:53

motivation? This is a question we've had from Neil

3:55

Eads on Facebook.

3:57

It's all about skill and protecting

3:59

the skill

3:59

of the worker. So these are

4:02

skilled artisans. They are

4:04

workers in the textile industry, so

4:07

not just in East Midlands, but also

4:09

in the industrial north, which also

4:12

is becoming the heart of the Industrial

4:14

Revolution. And these

4:17

are men who've developed

4:19

a skill over many years, have served apprenticeships,

4:22

learned a particular trade, and

4:25

are worried about the loss of their skills,

4:27

of their jobs,

4:29

as manufacturers are starting to

4:31

introduce new machinery that will

4:34

make things cheaper, make things quicker,

4:36

make things on a much larger scale.

4:39

So the Luddites are

4:41

demanding mainly

4:44

that their skilled jobs are retained,

4:47

that they're not replaced by

4:49

machinery, and that

4:52

their working conditions are respected.

4:55

They generally work in small

4:57

workshops, small

4:59

groups of quite closely

5:02

knit men, generally,

5:04

and they don't want to be

5:06

moved to big factories that are

5:08

operated by steam or

5:11

new working conditions that

5:14

will prevent them from determining

5:16

when they work and where they work. So

5:19

it's not just about the machinery

5:21

itself, it's about the whole way of life

5:24

of these

5:24

different communities. And

5:26

when we're talking about the Luddites, are we talking

5:28

about a single movement? So

5:30

the Luddites are really interesting because they

5:33

break out in three different regions.

5:35

So industrialisation in

5:37

Britain is regional, we have different

5:39

specialisms in different areas. So

5:42

one group is in the East Midlands,

5:44

the stocking knitters who

5:47

make the stockings for most

5:49

of England. There are woolen workers

5:52

in West Yorkshire,

5:53

and cotton workers in

5:56

South East Lancashire, North East Cheshire.

5:58

So it's very regional.

5:59

Initially, these groups

6:02

attack machinery at different times. They're not

6:05

necessarily directly connected,

6:07

but they then start writing

6:10

to each other and reading about each other

6:12

in the newspapers. It starts

6:14

to coalesce around this

6:17

imaginary figure called General Ludd, and

6:20

they start to see themselves as a much bigger

6:22

movement than perhaps on the ground they

6:24

actually are. That's what's

6:27

unique and interesting about the Luddites, that

6:29

they've got

6:29

this character, General Ludd, who they

6:32

claim is their leader and unites

6:34

these different regions, different industries

6:37

together against the new machinery

6:39

that's been put in place by their

6:41

employers. But

6:43

if these movements were organised around

6:45

this General Ludd character, do we get

6:47

a sense of how it was

6:49

organised, who else was leading, and

6:52

who else was in charge?

6:54

It seems that the

6:56

movement was organised by

6:58

the

6:59

workshops and the groups

7:01

of men who'd been working with

7:03

each other for many years, who perhaps

7:06

served apprentices together. These are

7:08

men who know each other very well. We

7:11

start with small groups of men

7:13

who'd plan to break machinery

7:16

or at least plan to threaten their

7:18

employer against the

7:21

new plans to introduce the machinery. Then

7:24

it becomes community supported.

7:26

You get villages and

7:29

districts realising

7:31

the impacts that these changes would have

7:34

on the village or the community economy,

7:36

so they support these people as

7:38

well. We start

7:40

with perhaps a cell organisation

7:43

planning to

7:46

break into a factory.

7:49

But then it would be almost condoned

7:51

by the local community. They'd

7:53

support it. They'd keep those secrets alive.

7:56

They wouldn't tell the authorities

7:58

that this was going on. But

8:00

by the time of the big outbreaks,

8:03

we're talking about hundreds or thousands, even thousands

8:06

of people at these events where

8:08

they watch or at least help

8:11

these men break machinery

8:13

or set fire to factories.

8:15

When we're talking about community

8:18

support, George Haig on

8:21

Facebook has asked about, was

8:23

it overwhelming support? Or did some

8:25

people disagree? Some people

8:28

think this wasn't right. It's

8:30

certainly a contentious issue.

8:32

This is a period when Britain is industrialising,

8:36

the economy is changing. So obviously,

8:39

manufacturers and the

8:41

local authorities see the

8:43

Luddites as a threat, not just

8:45

to public order, but also to the economy.

8:48

They want the economy to industrialise

8:51

and modernise. Local communities,

8:54

we're talking about small villages who

8:57

mix farming with small-scale

8:59

weaving or a mixed economy

9:02

of textile and agriculture. They

9:05

feel a bit more threatened by these changes.

9:07

They don't want to have to move to

9:09

the cities to work in a big factory.

9:12

They're supporting their children

9:14

or their fathers in a

9:17

household economy. The textile

9:19

industries in the early 19th century

9:21

are very family-based. These are families

9:24

working at home or in small workshops.

9:27

They feel that perhaps there is a moral

9:29

obligation to support the Luddites. They

9:32

don't want their economy to be changed. But

9:35

certainly, there's a lot of opposition from

9:37

professionals and the manufacturers and the employers,

9:40

and especially the government and

9:42

the local authorities, against

9:45

these actions.

9:46

I'm sure we're going to come

9:48

back to the support and

9:50

the response to the action

9:53

of the Luddites a little bit later. But

9:55

first, I think we need to chart some of the

9:57

key events in the timeline. I need to talk about what...

9:59

actions the Ludders took. I

10:02

guess the best place to start with, you've mentioned

10:04

about breaking machinery. Was this all

10:07

they did or did they do more? ALICE

10:09

So the main point of Luddism

10:11

is to stop the machines. So their

10:13

biggest actions are physically breaking

10:15

the machines.

10:16

They notoriously have what's called

10:18

Enoch, which is a big hammer. It's

10:21

a big physical process to break

10:23

a machine. But they do also try and set fire

10:25

to these machines as well.

10:28

And they're very targeted. They won't attack

10:31

machines that have already been introduced that they're

10:33

happy with using. These are the new

10:36

stocking frames, the new power looms

10:39

operated by Steam, the

10:42

new shearing frames in the woolen

10:44

industry that are designed

10:46

to, again, take away skilled

10:49

labour. So they're

10:51

very targeted attacks on those. They

10:54

also set

10:56

fire to buildings. They

10:58

might try and set fire or throw

11:01

a brick through the manufacturer's window.

11:03

They'll certainly start

11:06

pressure on the manufacturers by perhaps sending

11:08

an anonymous letter. So

11:10

we do actually have a lot of evidence about

11:13

the Luddites and what they wrote and what they

11:15

thought, because we have

11:18

copies of these letters in the Home Office

11:20

papers. Once the manufacturer has been

11:23

threatened by a pen

11:25

letter, then he'll perhaps send it on to

11:27

the Home Secretary to say, look, who's threatening

11:29

me? So there's lots of threatening

11:32

letters that say, if you don't take

11:34

down your machinery, then we'll come and attack

11:37

you. So it's not necessarily

11:40

spontaneous action. They're actually planning

11:42

a lot of these events. And I think

11:44

if a manufacturer would have taken

11:47

down his machinery, then they

11:49

wouldn't have attacked him just for the sake of

11:51

it.

11:59

very threatening. When I open the boxes

12:02

of them in the National Archives, you get these big

12:05

boxes of home office papers and

12:07

you get a chill down your spine when you're reading

12:09

this stuff. If you imagine exactly what a

12:11

threatening letter would be like, it is threatening

12:14

to kill these manufacturers,

12:16

or at least threatening harm on their

12:18

families if they don't take

12:20

down the machinery. So it's quite chilling

12:23

language. Some of them

12:25

are well-written. They might have been written

12:28

by an intermediary, someone

12:30

who knows how to write. Not all the working

12:32

men had good literacy at this time,

12:35

so some of them are phonetically spelled.

12:38

They certainly feel that they

12:41

want

12:41

to threaten

12:43

the employer. They're generally signed

12:46

by General Ludd, or Secretary

12:48

General Ludd, or even his

12:50

wife Betsy Ludd. So

12:53

this imaginary character filters

12:55

into their tactics.

12:58

That's why the authorities

13:00

and the manufacturers start thinking, oh,

13:02

maybe there is

13:03

this one leader, this

13:05

General Ludd, who is

13:07

ordering all these workers to send me

13:09

threatening letters, because that's the

13:12

signature at the bottom of the letters.

13:16

So as we've sort of

13:18

spoken about, it wasn't just about the

13:20

machinery, but it was also targeting the

13:23

people involved, their families

13:25

as well. Sarah

13:48

point

14:01

in wartime and in, I think, one of the most

14:03

serious crisis points in British history,

14:06

this period of 1811, 1812. No one really can foresee the end of the war

14:08

at this point. So

14:13

there is a bigger context to the

14:16

Luddite Rebellion, if you like, and

14:18

it's this changing economy.

14:21

Also, the reason why manufacturers

14:23

are introducing machinery

14:24

is not just to speed up their

14:27

production, but also they're reading

14:29

new economic theories. They're reading

14:31

Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations,

14:34

which says, you know, leave the prices to

14:36

the market. So you don't

14:39

want people trying to manipulate

14:41

food prices. You don't want people trying to manipulate

14:44

the price of wages. Leave

14:46

it all to the market. And that's the other

14:49

thing that the Luddites are concerned

14:51

about is this new laissez-faire

14:53

capitalism. It's

14:54

moving towards a sort of free trade

14:57

model under Adam Smith.

14:59

This is what the manufacturers

15:01

want to institute with the

15:03

new machinery. They want to make things cheaper

15:06

and quicker and more efficient. But

15:08

in doing that, the Luddites are arguing

15:11

that really creates

15:13

real problems for the working

15:15

people and their families. It pulls down wages

15:19

and worsens their working

15:21

conditions.

15:22

And this uncertainty leads to

15:25

people wanting to take perhaps more extreme

15:27

action. Certainly, yes. In times

15:30

of extreme economic

15:32

depression, people become desperate.

15:35

And if they can't bargain with their

15:38

employers, and also another context

15:40

is that trade unions are illegal at this

15:42

period. So the government

15:45

bans them in 1799 and 1800. They're concerned about the

15:47

growing power

15:53

of trade unions. So this

15:55

is one of the only tactics that working

15:58

people can take in a period they

16:00

can't

16:01

be part of a legal trade union.

16:04

So was this a revolutionary

16:07

moment?

16:08

The government certainly thought that the Luddites

16:11

were at the peak of a revolutionary moment.

16:13

They've already banned trade unions because

16:15

they're mistrustful of large

16:19

groups combining. They're seeing

16:21

these radical movements, reading Thomas

16:23

Paine, trying to emulate the French.

16:26

And the crisis point

16:28

actually happens on the 11th of May 1812. So

16:33

just after all these big attacks

16:35

in Lancashire and Yorkshire, Spencer

16:38

Percival, who's just become Prime Minister,

16:40

gets assassinated in the lobby of the House

16:42

of Commons. And it's immediately

16:44

blamed on a Luddite. And people

16:46

think, right, this is the Luddite attack

16:49

on the state. It wasn't a Luddite

16:51

who killed him. There's another story

16:54

that I'm sure you can find about why

16:56

he was assassinated. But certainly

16:58

the knee-jerk reaction is to believe that

17:01

it was a Luddite who killed the Prime Minister.

17:04

So I think that encapsulates

17:06

how the government saw the Luddite movement.

17:08

They certainly thought it was revolutionary. I

17:11

think the Luddites on the ground were

17:13

motivated by lots of different political

17:16

persuasions. They weren't necessarily

17:18

wanting to take over the state at

17:20

all. They just wanted the machines

17:22

out of the mills. But certainly there's

17:25

a revolutionary atmosphere that peaks

17:28

in that early 1812.

17:31

So can you chart for us some of the

17:34

most significant events in the

17:36

timeline of the Luddite movement?

17:39

So the start of Luddism

17:41

in Nottinghamshire is March 1811,

17:44

although it really kicks off in

17:46

November 1811. There's 70

17:49

stocking frames destroyed in Sutton

17:52

and Ashfield in November 1811. And

17:55

then it calms down again over Christmas

17:58

and picks up again in Yorkshire. So, the

18:01

East Midlands' Luddism declines

18:04

somewhat and really starts to amplify

18:07

in Yorkshire from January 1812.

18:11

But the high point of Luddism is

18:13

March-April 1811. This is a real crisis period

18:18

both in the war and in politics

18:20

and in the economy. So, there's

18:23

some big Luddite attacks

18:25

on the Wollan factories in the West Riding

18:28

of Yorkshire. So, Joseph Forster in

18:30

Hawbury in April is

18:32

attacked by about 300 Luddites.

18:35

And then

18:36

William Cartwright, who's a big

18:38

mill owner in Rawfolds in West

18:41

Yorkshire, he defends his mill.

18:43

The Luddites fail to attack it. And

18:46

then they try and assassinate him a week later.

18:48

They don't succeed, but two of the

18:50

Luddites are killed by the military at that

18:53

point. And then agitation

18:55

moves over the Pennines to

18:57

southeast Lancashire and northeast Cheshire.

19:00

There's two major attacks on Burton's

19:04

Power Loom steam cotton

19:06

mill in Middleton near Manchester

19:09

in April 21st, 22nd of April. And

19:13

those are notorious because it

19:16

seems from the records that government

19:18

spies seem to be involved in some

19:20

sort of like, as on provocateurs

19:22

trying to catch Luddites by

19:25

trying to provoke them to attack this mill.

19:27

And then the biggest attack is

19:30

in West Horton near Bolton

19:32

on the 24th of April. Again,

19:35

another cotton

19:36

Power Loom mill. And

19:38

then it peaks at the end of April

19:40

back in Yorkshire with a

19:43

Luddite attack on William Horsefall's

19:45

mill in Ottiewells on the

19:48

27th of April. Now, William Horsefall

19:51

had boasted that he was going to get the

19:53

magistrates to ride

19:56

up to their saddles in Luddite blood.

19:58

He was very opposed.

19:59

to the Luddites and what

20:02

they wanted. What happened on 28

20:04

April, he was coming back from Market

20:07

in Huddersfield to his

20:09

mill which is in the Moorland on Crossland

20:12

Moor, and he was shot and killed by

20:14

a group of Luddites. So that

20:17

seemed to mark the peak of the Luddite

20:19

violence, at least his assassination.

20:23

So you mentioned there the military,

20:26

you've mentioned all the spies. How

20:30

did the government react to these protests,

20:32

this rebellion at a local level? So

20:35

we've got to remember there's no police force at this

20:37

time. So to

20:40

enforce any sort of law and order, you've

20:43

got a system of magistrates

20:45

who were the main local government on

20:48

the ground, and they have recourse

20:50

to military, but they have to read

20:52

the riot arts, they've got to anticipate

20:55

disorder. So that's mainly how the

20:58

Luddites are suppressed. But

21:00

the government does send more military

21:03

reinforcements to the Midlands and the north.

21:05

It's estimated about 12,000

21:07

troops a cent,

21:09

which is a huge investment given that

21:11

we're fighting a peninsula war in

21:14

Spain and Portugal at the time. Britain needs

21:16

as many troops as we can fighting

21:18

the French, but actually we're fighting

21:21

a home enemy, if you like, of the

21:23

Luddites. So the magistrates

21:26

call on the military to suppress

21:29

these riots and attacks.

21:33

Some of the manufacturers arm their own

21:35

workers, so the Burton's

21:38

in Middleton, they arm about 50 of

21:40

their own workers when they anticipate that

21:42

the Luddites are going to come and attack

21:45

them. So there's a kind of pitched battle

21:47

between about 300 Luddites

21:49

at Middleton with about 50 of the workers

21:53

around the mill.

21:54

And again, this is where a lot of the casualties

21:57

happen, that people get shot, perhaps not

21:59

deliberate.

21:59

deliberately, but in the melee of

22:02

the disorder that happens. The

22:05

government takes Buddhism very

22:07

seriously. The

22:09

manufacturers press parliament to

22:11

pass legislation against it. The

22:14

government passes

22:16

a frame-breaking act in March 1812,

22:21

which makes it a capital offence

22:23

to break locking frames.

22:26

It only applies to that East Midlands region,

22:28

but certainly that seems to

22:31

suggest the sort of penalty that

22:33

Luddites are up against.

22:37

Once Luddites are arrested, they are charged

22:39

with various offences

22:40

from breaking the peace

22:42

to riots, and

22:44

some are executed. Famously,

22:47

there's almost like a show trial of

22:49

Luddites at York Castle in

22:51

January 1813, where some

22:54

of the most notorious leaders are

22:56

put on trial. There's about 60

22:59

Luddites tried at that show

23:02

trial, and 14 are sentenced

23:04

to hanging. Others are transported

23:07

to Australia. So this is seen

23:09

as a serious offence and

23:11

something that is of

23:12

national significance.

23:15

Can we say that the enforcement

23:18

of the government acts really

23:21

worked at that local level?

23:24

I think it's the attitudes

23:26

of the magistrates that really puts

23:28

down the

23:30

disorder. This is, again,

23:33

desperate, people are starving, but they're

23:35

also committed to this cause.

23:38

So there is a real rift

23:40

between local government and working

23:43

communities who feel that perhaps the Luddites

23:46

are right, perhaps the government isn't

23:48

doing enough for their local economies.

23:51

And so there is a

23:53

real

23:54

sense of public order crisis

23:56

at this point. I do think it's almost a

23:58

revolutionary situation. situation in 1812. So

24:02

there's certainly a whole

24:05

panoply of negotiation

24:07

between magistrates and the

24:10

military and local manufacturers

24:12

and local people over what

24:14

should happen. But certainly

24:17

the legislation at the top

24:19

and these

24:19

big executions really clamp

24:21

down on the disorder and

24:24

when people realise the severity

24:26

of the offences.

24:28

Were the Luddites accused of any crimes

24:30

that they did not commit, whether by local

24:33

communities, local magistrates, or

24:35

perhaps by press or anything like that?

24:38

The Luddites are accused of all sorts of things

24:40

at a time when, again,

24:42

there's all sorts

24:44

of different types of protest and disorder.

24:47

So there were also food riots at this

24:49

period which precede a lot of these

24:51

attacks. So prices of food

24:54

are sky high, people are protesting

24:56

in marketplaces. And quite

24:58

often the Luddites would follow

25:01

on from these protests in the marketplaces

25:03

and perhaps march on from

25:05

a protest, a food riot, onto

25:08

the

25:09

house of a manufacturer or onto

25:11

the mill. So there's a

25:13

whole range of offences and charges

25:16

that Luddites and people

25:18

generally got

25:20

charged with. And it might be riots,

25:22

it might be breaking the peace, it might

25:25

be all sorts of different offences.

25:28

So it's not just a simple issue

25:30

of people getting charged

25:33

under the frame-breaking ads. There's

25:36

all these different offences and all these different ways

25:38

in which people got involved. So

25:40

certainly women got caught

25:43

up in the disturbances when they'd perhaps

25:45

just been rioting in the marketplace

25:48

over the price of food. But because

25:50

all these trials were happening about the Luddites,

25:53

they'd end up being involved with those

25:55

trials as well. So it's a

25:57

big crisis of public disorder

25:59

at this time.

25:59

Could you perhaps tell us a little

26:02

bit about some of these other similarly

26:04

minded groups at the time? So,

26:07

this is also the time when democratic

26:10

radicalism is starting. So, we've just

26:12

had the French Revolution from the

26:15

1790s. People are starting to read

26:17

Thomas Paine's Rights of Man, forming

26:20

their own societies, thinking

26:23

about this idea of democracy,

26:24

which has come over from both America

26:27

and France.

26:28

So, this is also a time of political

26:30

radicalism and something again

26:33

that concerns the government and the local

26:35

authorities who are not

26:37

that keen on working people having the vote

26:40

or any say in political representation.

26:43

So, there are local

26:45

groups across the industrial north, across

26:47

Britain as a whole, who are campaigning

26:50

for the vote. They're suppressed

26:53

and put down again by trials

26:55

in the 1790s. They are also

26:58

involved in the war effort, so

27:01

there's not as much agitation

27:03

up to 1812 for the vote. But

27:06

certainly that is in the background and that's

27:08

also what people are organising.

27:11

It's a big period of a new

27:13

type of popular politics being

27:15

developed, where ordinary people are starting

27:17

to think, oh, actually, we can organise in different

27:19

ways that we hadn't done before.

27:22

That's partly a result of these new ideas

27:25

coming from the revolutions. It's also

27:27

partly because we're becoming

27:30

more urbanised, more industrialised. There's more

27:32

people concentrated in urban

27:34

centres that can meet and organise

27:37

in different groups. So, there's all sorts

27:39

of agitation going on

27:41

around the context of this machine-breaking.

27:45

And while we're talking about similar groups,

27:48

Chris Rowe on Twitter has asked about if

27:50

there were any similar groups to the Luddites in

27:52

other countries. Machine-breaking happens

27:55

obviously where there's

27:58

new

27:59

industrial

27:59

development. Britain is unusual

28:02

in that, certainly in the Western world,

28:04

it industrialises first. So we

28:06

see similar groups happening a bit later

28:09

on the continent. The one I'm

28:11

quite interested in, particularly

28:13

in France, in the newly industrialising

28:16

areas in parts of France

28:19

in the 1820s, and we see

28:22

French historians have talked about a war of

28:24

the Demoiselles. And

28:27

one interesting thing about the Luddites,

28:29

which we haven't discussed yet, is actually

28:33

that they put on disguises and

28:35

symbolic clothing to hide

28:38

themselves. And we see that pattern

28:40

across different protests, including

28:43

the war of the Demoiselles in France,

28:45

who were protesting against the

28:48

forest laws and removal of their

28:50

rights, and also around

28:54

issues similar about wages

28:56

and work and

28:58

conditions. And what unites

29:00

them is that they've also got a mythical figure

29:02

who cross-stresses,

29:04

basically. So the only visual

29:07

image we have of General Ludd is a cartoon

29:09

that's produced during the disturbances

29:12

in 1812 of quite a big,

29:15

burly man, probably in

29:17

Lancashire, given that he's wearing cotton,

29:19

but he's wearing a cotton dress on

29:22

top of his normal clothing. And

29:24

it's kind of empire-lined, spotted, printed

29:27

dress, a bit Jane Austen

29:30

style. And it's a very arresting

29:32

visual image of quite a masculine-looking

29:35

man wearing women's clothing. And

29:38

there's all sorts of debate about why that

29:40

is, but it's actually fairly common in

29:42

any sort of customary

29:45

activity where you have the world

29:47

turned upside down, this carnival

29:50

aspect. So we see that across Europe as

29:52

well. We've seen it in English history,

29:55

particularly. It's almost like a disguise,

29:57

but it's almost like donning

29:59

a character. that isn't your real

30:01

self but is a protest character.

30:04

So one of, again, the interesting

30:07

things about the Luddites is that they're

30:09

not just like a trade union.

30:11

They've got this mythical, folklory,

30:15

customary aspect to them, which

30:17

is reflected in other movements, agricultural

30:21

movements like the Ribbon Men in

30:23

Ireland, who are, again, causing a

30:25

lot of agitation against their conditions

30:28

and against landlords in Ireland and

30:30

these demoiselle in France. So

30:32

there's a whole network, almost, of

30:35

these kind of customary figures who

30:37

are turning the world upside down,

30:39

as they call it.

30:41

I'm very intrigued by these

30:43

ideas of costumes. What

30:46

sort of thing are we talking about here?

30:48

So it's really traditional to wear ribbons

30:52

and rosettes and anything

30:54

that's symbolic. We only

30:56

really have it now in

30:58

the former Morris Dancers, that kind

31:01

of bells and smart

31:03

white shirts but also perhaps

31:05

masks and green men

31:08

and jacking the green where you dress

31:10

as a tree. All these kind of things

31:12

that perhaps seem a bit antiquated

31:15

to us now in the 21st century were

31:18

quite commonly used, particularly

31:20

in semi-rural, semi-agricultural

31:23

societies and communities at

31:25

festival times and carnival times.

31:28

But often they represented a carnival

31:32

where you overturned the rules of that

31:34

day. So for that day only, the

31:36

fool becomes the mayor and the mayor

31:38

becomes the fool. So protests

31:41

tend

31:42

to use that as a kind of

31:44

symbolic way of saying, look,

31:46

we're assuming authority now. These

31:49

are our rules, not yours. We don't

31:51

agree with what

31:53

you've done. We're asserting community

31:56

justice. We're showing that by wearing

31:59

a jacket with a hat. lots of ribbons on it, or we're

32:01

wearing a mask on our faces, or

32:03

even here's a man dressed as a woman and a woman

32:06

dressed as a man. And it's

32:08

a very traditional, customary

32:10

way of showing very

32:13

visually and also orally. There

32:15

would be songs, there'd be music

32:17

associated with this that would assert

32:20

that kind of community identity.

32:22

And we see that in the Luddites as well.

32:25

Did the Luddites have any particular

32:27

songs? We've got a whole songbook

32:29

of songs. So again, this is

32:32

the wonderful thing about what we think

32:34

may have been a

32:36

mythical movement. Actually, they left us

32:38

lots of evidence. So there

32:40

is a whole book of songs that historian

32:44

Kevin Bimfield collected, which

32:47

talk about the victories of General Ludd.

32:49

There's a lot of sing-along choruses.

32:51

I'm not going to sing them for you because my voice

32:54

is not good. But songs

32:56

are a really good way of ensuring solidarity.

32:59

They're also a really good way of memorialising

33:02

events. And in

33:04

an oral tradition, people

33:06

are much more likely to remember stories

33:08

through singing songs. So

33:11

this is how the message is also passed on.

33:13

In an era again, where

33:15

ballads are really common, you'll have ballad

33:18

singers and printed ballads

33:20

that you can buy and sing along to. So the

33:22

Luddites share in that culture.

33:25

They have many

33:27

songs about their exploits at Rawfolds

33:30

or in Nottinghamshire or just

33:32

this mythical figure of General Ludd.

33:36

They compare him with Robin

33:38

Hood. It's the obvious kind

33:41

of mythical figure that they're drawing from.

33:43

And again, we'll have songs about General

33:46

Ludd and Robin Hood asserting

33:48

again this community's sense

33:50

of justice against the wrongs

33:53

of the people who employ them or

33:55

their landlords.

33:57

Speaking about this, sharing

33:59

of stories. We've

34:01

had a question here from George Haig on

34:04

Facebook, he's asked about their portrayal in the

34:06

press. The press generally

34:08

are quite opposed to them. This

34:10

is a period again where most

34:13

of the press

34:13

is supportive of the

34:16

authorities

34:16

and the government. It's

34:18

very hard for distancing

34:21

voices to have their say. A lot

34:23

of radical press had been put down or

34:26

censored in the 1790s. There's

34:28

lots of legislation passed

34:30

by Pitt's government against radical

34:33

writings. The government doesn't want

34:35

people writing about

34:36

democracy. Obviously,

34:39

most of the newspaper press portrays

34:42

the Luddites as an unruly mob,

34:44

as threatening the economy, as

34:48

almost revolutionary in what they're

34:50

doing. You're not going to see

34:52

very favorable portrayals of the

34:55

Luddites in the newspaper press at

34:57

this time. Vicky

34:59

Marjorie on Twitter has asked whether Lord

35:01

Byron supported them and if so, why?

35:04

Famously, Lord Byron's maiden

35:07

speech in the House of Lords was

35:09

in February 1812 during the debates

35:12

on this framebreaking act that would make

35:15

framebreaking a capital offence.

35:18

He's a bit subtle in what he says. He's not

35:21

out and out pro Luddite, but he certainly

35:23

sympathises with the communities

35:25

that are affected. He

35:28

says that the conditions that

35:30

the Luddites were opposing

35:32

were the products of the circumstances

35:35

of the most

35:35

unparalleled distress. He seems

35:38

to

35:40

offer a sense of empathy

35:43

and sympathy towards certainly the conditions

35:46

that the West Riding Clothiers

35:48

are

35:48

and the East Midlands'

35:51

stocking frame knitters are under.

35:53

Later on, he does publish

35:57

poems about General Ludd and portrays

35:59

General Ludd. general Ludd almost, I mean, we now

36:01

have that phrase of by ironic hero,

36:03

this kind of heroic figure,

36:05

but I think at the time, he's obviously also

36:07

very careful at his status

36:10

in society. He doesn't want to be

36:12

seen as too pro-Luddite, but certainly

36:15

is

36:15

sympathetic towards them.

36:18

So if we come to the

36:20

end of the Luddite movement,

36:23

how long did the protests go on for?

36:26

When do we see an end? SCF

36:29

So the official end really is with those

36:32

show trials in the beginning of 1813.

36:35

York and Lancaster had already had

36:37

their trials, and

36:40

with dozens of Luddites executed

36:43

for the

36:44

offenses of riot and for

36:47

breaking machinery. So by

36:50

the time of 1812,

36:53

1813, things are starting to wind down because

36:56

of the military

36:56

suppression and

36:57

the trials. There is a

36:59

revival in 1816

37:02

after the end of the Napoleonic War. There's

37:05

more disturbances in Nottinghamshire,

37:08

which again are put down by the military

37:10

and by trials and executions.

37:13

But there's also different types of

37:15

machine breaking and disturbance,

37:18

which get classed as Luddism. So 1816

37:20

in East Anglia, there were

37:22

what called the Bread or Blood riots,

37:25

where people are shouting, bread or blood, that's

37:28

your choice. There's debate

37:30

over whether they can be classed as Luddite

37:32

because they don't necessarily call themselves

37:35

Luddite or unite under this

37:37

imaginary figure of general Ludd. But

37:39

there's certainly continued resistance

37:42

to new machinery well

37:44

into the Industrial Revolution

37:46

and the Agricultural Revolution. So

37:49

you can have an official end in 1813

37:53

or a longer tail-off a few years

37:55

after the war.

37:57

L to

38:00

the leaders of the movement

38:02

or those who are most strongly

38:04

visible. JG So the

38:07

leaders that the authorities identified,

38:09

and again it's very difficult to know if they were

38:11

actually the leaders, most of them

38:14

were unfortunately arrested

38:16

and tried and executed.

38:19

So there were 14

38:22

hanged at York, there were 8 hanged at

38:24

Lancaster, there were several hanged

38:26

at Nottingham Castle, and several

38:29

others are transported to Australia,

38:31

we're into that era now where we're

38:33

moving away from execution which is why

38:35

it's interesting that the government decided

38:38

to execute so many people because

38:40

there's a big shift towards transportation

38:42

as the main punishment. But

38:45

also by the end of the war the

38:48

economy's changing and

38:50

people are moving on,

38:51

moving into new

38:53

employment. So we

38:56

see that legacy of the Luddites kind of dissipate

38:58

somewhat after the executions and after the

39:01

trials.

39:01

JG What about

39:03

those people who had been perhaps affected

39:06

by the actions of the Luddites? How were

39:08

their livelihoods affected in the long run?

39:11

JG So

39:11

it cost a lot of money to set up a machine,

39:14

particularly if it's steam powered.

39:16

So the immediate financial impact

39:19

of Luddism

39:19

on individual

39:21

manufacturers was fairly severe,

39:24

but

39:25

this is a period when industrialisation

39:28

really takes off and manufacturing

39:31

both in

39:32

the textile industry and more generally is

39:35

booming

39:36

from the end of the Napoleonic wars. So

39:39

the ultimate impact of Luddism on the

39:41

economy was very little. Manufacturers

39:43

decided to industrialise and

39:46

mechanise anyway and

39:48

with newer technology happening.

39:51

We've got to remember that Luddism wasn't a national

39:54

movement. They only targeted

39:57

very specific manufacturers

39:59

in particular.

39:59

areas. So as

40:02

a whole, Luddism didn't have that

40:04

much of an economic effect. It

40:06

might have had an effect on that particular

40:09

manufacturer, but essentially

40:11

it wasn't

40:12

as catastrophic perhaps as they'd

40:15

anticipated. S- Was there any support

40:18

offered for those people who had

40:20

been affected on an individual

40:22

level? A- They would have had their machines

40:24

insured. There's quite a substantial industrial

40:26

insurance system

40:29

going on, so they would have insured them with Sun

40:31

or one of the other big insurance companies.

40:33

So I'm sure that they got some of their money

40:35

back. S-

40:36

Agro-Biodeverse on Twitter

40:38

has asked about what were the long-term

40:41

effects of the Luddite movement on the labour

40:43

movement and technological development?

40:46

A-

40:46

The long-term effects of legacy

40:48

and Luddism, I think

40:51

they did instill a sense of actually

40:53

working people have skills that can't

40:55

be replaced by machinery. There

40:58

are later movements that follow Luddism

41:00

that look back to the movement and

41:02

think about what their

41:05

principles were. So the next

41:08

wave of agitation against machinery

41:11

after 1816, 1817 happened in the early 1830s in

41:16

the agricultural sector. So the agricultural

41:18

sector was mechanising as well,

41:21

and the swing riots of

41:24

the early 1830s happened

41:27

across most of England. We associate

41:30

the swing riots with southern arable

41:32

England, where machines are replacing

41:35

manual labour in harvests

41:36

and gathering the crops.

41:39

But in fact, we have records of swing

41:41

incidents across the country,

41:43

where people are looking back at the Luddites

41:46

and thinking actually they had a point

41:48

about machines taking people's

41:50

labour in an agricultural

41:52

setting. So that's the

41:54

next big wave of agitation

41:57

around people's working conditions and

41:59

machines.

41:59

And where else

42:02

can we perhaps see this Luddite

42:04

legacy? There's certainly a

42:08

movement that's been growing, I guess, over

42:10

the last 20, 30 years about

42:12

craft and slow

42:15

ways of

42:16

doing things. So I think as

42:19

our own technology rapidly

42:22

seems to take over our working lives, I think

42:25

there is a slow reaction to that. A

42:27

lot of

42:28

companies and small businesses are emphasizing,

42:31

oh, this is handmade or this is crafted. And

42:33

I think that has a kind of long link

42:36

that we can make

42:37

between the Luddites and their

42:39

artisan ways of doing things at

42:42

their own pace and their own time in

42:44

their own conditions to perhaps this movement

42:46

against automation, against

42:49

AI, against computers

42:52

basically determining how our working conditions

42:54

are set. And so I think there

42:56

is that element of Luddism

42:58

that has that longer legacy

43:00

today with people thinking about skill, people

43:03

thinking about

43:04

craft and craftism

43:07

and slow food and slow-made

43:09

things.

43:10

That answers a question from Denise Davidson

43:13

on Twitter. And as a last question

43:15

for you, this is from Susie1340 on Twitter.

43:20

Can we say there are perhaps

43:22

still Luddites today or movements

43:24

that follow their

43:27

motivations at least? There

43:29

are neo-Luddites,

43:31

people who actually take on that general

43:33

Ludd imaginary leader.

43:37

They tend to be quite fringe movements

43:39

who were opposed to a lot of technology

43:42

and technological changes. There have been neo-Luddites,

43:45

for example, a few years ago who opposed genetically

43:48

modified food, for example. So

43:51

the Ludd tends to still

43:53

attract different groups from various

43:56

political persuasions and different causes.

43:59

But more generally, I think there

44:02

is a sense of people

44:05

thinking about

44:06

skill and working conditions with,

44:09

again, environmental protests probably have

44:13

a link to the Luddites as well. We're thinking about

44:15

what's the impact that machines have

44:17

on our environment and changing

44:20

people's large-scale farming,

44:23

again, seems to threaten people's

44:26

livelihoods as well. So there's

44:28

certainly a lot of threads that

44:30

people can pull from the original

44:33

Luddite threads that they were making on

44:35

their stocking frames today.

44:42

That was Katrina Navacas, Professor

44:44

of History at the University of Hertfordshire.

44:47

You can hear some of the songs that Katrina discussed

44:49

in this episode by heading over to

44:52

BBC Sounds and searching

44:54

for the Luddite Lament.

45:01

Thanks for listening to the History Extra

45:03

podcast. This podcast

45:05

was produced by Brittany Colley.