0:00

The History Channel original podcast.

0:05

History this week, May

0:07

16th, 1920. I'm

0:10

Sally Helm. The

0:16

streets of Rome are crowded with

0:18

cars, as tens of thousands

0:21

of people make their way towards

0:23

St. Peter's Basilica. A

0:26

reporter observing the scene says you

0:28

can spot cardinals behind some of

0:30

the car windows decked out in their crimson

0:32

robes, plus the occasional Monsignor

0:35

in purple.

0:36

On foot,

0:39

all streaming in the same direction, there

0:41

are monks and nuns and

0:44

ordinary people. Some of Rome's children

0:46

have clambered up the colonies to try

0:48

and get a look. They're

0:51

all here to honor a person

0:53

who none of them has ever met,

0:56

because she lived 500 years ago.

1:00

A French teenager named

1:02

Joan of Arc. Joan's

1:05

feats in battle and her visions

1:07

of God are the stuff of

1:10

legend. And today, the

1:12

Catholic Church will give her its highest

1:15

honor. Joan will be

1:17

canonized, made a

1:20

saint.

1:22

The Basilica is illuminated by

1:24

thousands of bulbs and thousands

1:26

of candles. There are tapestries

1:29

and pictures of Joan, swaths

1:31

of regal crimson fabric, a

1:33

choir singing in Latin. Any

1:36

new saint would merit celebration. But

1:39

the devotion to Joan is

1:42

different, fervent, and passionate,

1:45

especially in France, where she

1:47

is still revered for her bravery. Pageants

1:51

will be held around the world today, children

1:54

dressed in medieval garb, reenacting

1:56

scenes from Joan's life.

1:58

While in the Basilica,

3:59

disagreements have become violent.

4:02

Jones is also living at a time of

4:05

a civil war in France. France

4:08

is as polarized then as

4:10

we are today. One group in

4:12

France supports Charles VII. He's

4:15

known as the Dauphin, which means he's

4:18

the son of the most recent French king.

4:21

Another group of Frenchmen opposes him.

4:24

They're led by the Duke of Burgundy and

4:26

known as the Burgundians. They've

4:28

allied themselves with

4:29

the English. So it's the

4:32

Burgundians and the English versus the

4:34

Dauphin and the French. They

4:37

cannot agree on anything.

4:39

Every time the Burgundians say, white, the

4:42

Dauphin side is black, okay?

4:44

And they are struggling for power

4:46

in the midst of this.

4:50

The Dauphin and his side are not

4:52

doing well. They haven't won a battle in a

4:54

while. He's lost territory

4:57

in northern France, and even worse,

4:59

the English have laid siege to an important

5:02

city on the Dauphin's frontline, the

5:04

city of Orléans.

5:06

Its inhabitants are slowly starving.

5:10

The Dauphin is about 100 miles away.

5:13

He could send an army to help

5:15

push the English out of Orléans, but

5:19

he's scared. Look, from the

5:21

ages of six to 10, he was someone

5:23

who the Burgundians tried to capture, tried

5:25

to kill him.

5:26

He wasn't protected. Paris

5:29

wasn't like you see in Emily and Paris. It

5:31

was a dangerous city. There's chaos

5:33

everywhere. They're fighting in

5:35

the streets. They're severed heads on pikes. So

5:38

he's very afraid.

5:42

Charles is losing his confidence.

5:45

Kings in the Middle Ages believed they ruled

5:47

by divine favor. But

5:50

now he's wondering, why would God

5:52

allow a king to be defeated over

5:55

and over again? Maybe

5:58

God has abandoned the world.

5:59

abandoned me. Maybe I've fallen

6:02

from his grace."

6:05

The Dauphin's supporters are losing

6:07

confidence, too. They

6:10

yearn for a miracle. And

6:13

around this time, there have been

6:15

some prophecies circulating.

6:18

Prophecies predicting a dramatic turn of events

6:21

that will restore the Dauphin to his strength,

6:23

push the English out of France, and deliver

6:26

the people from their strife. That's

6:29

why the prophets that say a virgin maid

6:31

will rise up to save them. And

6:34

that prophecy acted like a want-at.

6:37

Position for mystic open at the royal court.

6:39

Qualified candidates apply at your local church.

6:44

One perfect candidate lives

6:46

in a small village called Domremy,

6:49

a 16-year-old named Joan.

6:52

Jean in French. She calls herself Jean

6:54

Lapousel, or Joan the

6:57

Maid. For years

6:59

now, she has been having visions,

7:02

bright lights, and the voices of

7:04

saints. At first, the

7:06

voices tell her to live a quiet,

7:09

pious life. Then

7:11

they start to speak of more ambitious

7:14

things.

7:17

A lot of people in the village of Domremy know

7:19

about Joan and her visions, and it doesn't

7:21

phase them. It was a common thing because there

7:23

was no medication. Maybe a little town

7:26

had somebody who saw visions or

7:28

heard voices. And when Joan's

7:30

voices begin to urge her to take

7:32

up arms for the Dauphin, a

7:34

lot of people in her town think that

7:37

makes a lot of sense.

7:38

The people in Joan's immediate vicinity

7:40

are Dauphin supporters, but

7:43

Burgundians control the territory

7:45

all around her town. So

7:47

she and all her neighbors have felt

7:50

the horror of the war firsthand.

7:52

The Burgundians keep trying to take over that area,

7:55

and they keep stealing Joan's family's

7:58

cattle and attacking

7:59

the villages, and so she does

8:02

grow up with this war." And

8:04

then, the prophecy, which

8:07

could have been written about Joan

8:09

the Maid. She has

8:11

mystical visions, she says they come

8:13

from a heavenly source, and they're

8:16

telling her to support the Dauphin.

8:18

Perfect. So, Joan is

8:20

vetted and sent to the royal court.

8:23

The Dauphin is definitely not

8:26

expecting her. He's got no idea

8:28

where she came from. She just shows up. He

8:31

doesn't welcome Joan with open arms.

8:33

They don't automatically treat her

8:36

as heaven-sent. We

8:38

spoke about this moment with Charity Urbanski,

8:41

a medieval history professor at the University of Washington.

8:45

She said, the Dauphin is desperate.

8:49

Remember, it's important that he liberate

8:51

Orléans to have any chance

8:53

of winning this war and being officially

8:56

crowned king of France. And,

9:00

lo and behold, here comes this

9:02

woman, straight from the prophecy,

9:05

saying that she can save him.

9:08

But the Dauphin is also skeptical,

9:11

because when it comes to heaven-sent voices,

9:14

there is always a question. Is

9:16

this a good spirit? Is this a bad spirit?

9:18

How do you tell the difference? Is

9:20

this person holy or a heretic?

9:27

And so members of the defense court interrogate

9:30

Joan, trying to suss that out. And

9:32

she says, look, when I first started hearing

9:34

these voices, I had the same question.

9:37

What Joan does have to say about

9:39

her voices is that first,

9:42

the archangel Michael came to her.

9:44

She was 13, and it scared her. And

9:47

she says she was afraid that rather

9:50

than being the archangel Michael, he might, in fact,

9:52

be a temptation sent by the devil.

9:56

But Joan says the visions came with

9:59

signs. that convinced me of their

10:01

truth. And they've

10:03

given me a divine mission. Not

10:06

just to drive the English out of France, but also

10:08

to see Charles crowned.

10:11

Right answer. That

10:14

is exactly what the Dauphin wants to hear. But

10:17

not so fast. In order for

10:19

the prophecy to hold, Joan has

10:21

to be a virgin

10:23

made. The Dauphin

10:25

has to confirm it. She

10:28

has her physically examined

10:30

by matrons to make sure that she is

10:32

in fact a virgin as she claims because

10:34

a big part of Joan's claim to sanctity

10:37

is her chastity and virginity.

10:39

She passes the examination.

10:43

But there's one more thing that's giving the

10:45

Dauphin's advisors pause. It

10:48

has to do with the way Joan looks.

10:51

She's a young woman with short hair

10:53

who wears men's clothes.

10:56

Probably would have been a bit of a shock

10:59

for the people at court, right? Gender

11:01

roles were pretty

11:03

strictly dictated. Wearing

11:05

the clothing of the opposite gender was strictly

11:08

prohibited by canon law. It goes back to

11:10

a prohibition in

11:11

Deuteronomy 22.5, I believe

11:14

it is. Charity

11:16

Urbanski says Joan herself explains

11:19

this in very practical terms.

11:22

She's just traveled hundreds of miles

11:24

from home and protecting her virginity

11:27

was a top priority.

11:28

According to Joan, it protects her essentially

11:31

from sexual assault. Male

11:34

clothing was a lot harder to get off of

11:36

somebody, let's put it that way. There

11:38

were lots of ties and knots that had

11:40

to be done. Female clothing, you know, a skirt

11:43

could easily be lifted. Finally,

11:45

the examiners decide that

11:48

Joan is for real. She

11:50

seems to be very pious, very devoted.

11:53

We can't find anything wrong with her. Give

11:56

her some men and send her to Orleone and

11:58

see what happens. Send

12:01

her to Orléans into the heart of

12:03

the Hundred Years' War with her

12:06

own detachment of troops. I

12:09

asked Nancy Goldstone about this.

12:11

It is amazing this moment because it's like

12:13

why would they think a 16-year-old

12:16

girl with no military experience, they

12:18

should bring her to war just because

12:20

she wants to come? Well, she's their messenger

12:22

from God. She's a representative from God.

12:25

And you know, she's kind of more the mascot

12:28

at that point.

12:29

They don't think she's going to fight, really. But

12:32

you know, the real problem with the French army

12:35

effort was that they were completely psyched out

12:37

by the English. They thought they were going

12:39

to lose, and they needed something to

12:41

change the momentum of the battle.

12:48

So on April 29, Joan

12:51

and her troops approach the city of

12:53

Orléans. The English

12:55

troops are besieging it.

12:58

They're camped around it in the countryside,

13:00

doing everything they can to keep supplies

13:03

out of the city. Now, Joan

13:05

wants to attack these English enemies

13:08

right away. But the soldiers convince her,

13:10

no, we're carrying all this

13:13

food and all these supplies. First,

13:16

we need to save the civilians

13:18

living here. People in Orléans

13:20

are starving. They've been eating frets.

13:23

They've been eating their dough. I mean, it's

13:25

a terrible situation.

13:27

One of the French commanders creates a diversion

13:29

while Joan and her troops ride toward

13:32

the city's eastern gate. She

13:34

finds it unprotected, so she

13:36

enters the city unopposed. She's

13:39

on a white horse carrying a banner

13:41

patterned with lilies and an image of Christ

13:44

flanked by angels. Her banner

13:46

is very religious, so this looks like

13:48

a crusade. How do the people of

13:51

Orléans react to her? Oh, I

13:53

love her. You can't say love her.

13:54

The people of Orléans

13:57

are stunned. They've

13:59

heard from her. prophecies about a savior in the form

14:02

of a virgin maid. And now, here

14:04

she is, bringing

14:07

the food they so desperately need.

14:10

They pour into the streets and reach out to

14:12

touch her as she passes. They

14:15

treat her like a vessel of God.

14:21

But the French commanders still

14:23

don't entirely trust Joan.

14:26

She is, after all, a teenager

14:28

who, up until recently, has been living a quiet

14:31

life in the French countryside.

14:33

And so when, on May 4th, one

14:35

of the French commanders decides that it's

14:38

now time to attack the English,

14:40

Joan is not informed.

14:43

Joan is asleep, doesn't even know.

14:45

They leave her at home, but she wakes up

14:48

and she realizes there's a battle going on, they didn't

14:50

tell her. So she gets her squire to put

14:52

on all her stuff, and she gets

14:54

on her horse. She's not a good rider, she's

14:57

just learned how to ride. And she's hanging

14:59

on there as fast as she can to get to the battle.

15:02

A medieval battlefield is a dangerous

15:04

place to be, with its multiple ways

15:06

to be maimed or killed. Pikes,

15:10

arrows, cannonballs, swords.

15:13

Joan rides alongside the other French

15:15

commanders and wades into the fight.

15:18

She doesn't use her sword, but she rallies

15:20

the troops with her bravery. And

15:22

by the end of the day, an English fort

15:25

outside the city has fallen to the

15:27

French. That's the first time the French

15:29

held the battlefield. They still have to fight more,

15:31

but they won that one. So

15:34

then they got a little confidence going, and then they have

15:36

all these other battles. Three days

15:38

later, the French attack another

15:40

nearby English fort. Joan

15:42

is once again cutting through the fray

15:45

when an arrow finds a seam in

15:47

her armor and strikes her on the shoulder,

15:50

near the neck.

15:51

She's actually wounded. She

15:54

gets off her horse, she cries,

15:56

she prays for like five

15:58

minutes, and then she gets right back on.

15:59

and goes to the front, and they all

16:02

fight for her. Wow. And it was

16:04

amazing. That's why it's such an amazing

16:06

story. Because all they really needed

16:08

was a little, you know,

16:10

just a little... And

16:12

they get it from Joan. After

16:15

a week and a few more battles, the

16:18

French have driven the English

16:20

from Orléans.

16:22

The Dauphin, 100 miles away, is

16:25

hearing about these astonishing victories

16:27

by letter. The messengers are coming so

16:29

fast that they don't have time to read one

16:32

before the next one comes and says, well, good

16:34

news. And then the next one, and then the next one.

16:36

It was, they couldn't even believe it. The

16:38

court, they'd lost for so long. And

16:41

here, all of a sudden, they're just winning, and winning,

16:43

and winning. It was fabulous.

16:45

The French commanders are all behind

16:47

Joan now. In fact,

16:50

they want her to lead them right

16:52

on to their next big battle. The military

16:54

men said, we should go to Paris right

16:56

now and take that city too.

16:59

And she didn't let them do that. She said,

17:01

no, our next job is to get the King crowned

17:03

at Reims. She says, that

17:06

is the next part of the divine

17:08

plan. Here's Charity Urbanski.

17:11

Part of Joan's mission, the mission that she

17:13

claimed to have, was not just to drive the English

17:15

out of France, but also to see

17:18

Charles crowned, to lead

17:20

the Dauphin into the traditional site of

17:22

the coronation of

17:23

French kings, which was really important

17:25

ideologically. It's the place where all

17:28

the French kings have been anointed with

17:30

holy oil to begin their reigns.

17:33

Joan says the coronation has to

17:35

be there. And after all, the

17:37

Dauphin's whole mission is to

17:40

be seen by everyone as the

17:42

legitimate King of France. So

17:44

it was incredibly important that they

17:47

made it all the way to Reims, which, keep in mind, was

17:49

deep in the heart of English territory.

17:52

It's a risky move. It might

17:54

end in disaster. But

17:56

Joan is convincing. And

17:58

so the Dauphin...

17:59

and his troops fight their way

18:02

to the Cathedral of Ras. On

18:04

July 17th, he is

18:06

crowned, with Joan standing

18:09

beside him.

18:10

Noble King,

18:12

she says, God's will is

18:15

done. And she begins

18:17

to cry.

18:20

Getting him crowned was a

18:22

massive political coup,

18:24

right? And to have Joan by the Dauphin

18:27

side at that moment proves

18:30

the veracity of her divine mission. Four

18:33

months ago, almost no one had heard

18:35

of this 17-year-old maid from

18:37

an obscure rural village.

18:40

Now, she's an honored guest

18:42

at the King's coronation. The

18:44

newly crowned Charles grants Joan's request

18:47

that her hometown of Domra Mi be

18:49

exempt from paying taxes, an

18:52

arrangement that will hold until the French Revolution

18:54

360 years later.

18:57

He even bestows the status of nobility

19:00

on her and her family. The

19:03

King is grateful for all

19:05

she's done, but he's also getting

19:07

jealous. Charles is quite happy

19:09

to have Joan revive

19:11

the morale of the French troops.

19:13

He's not entirely happy

19:16

to have someone sharing the spotlight

19:18

with him. You know, the French really do

19:20

see Joan as a savior, and honestly,

19:23

that kind of competes with Charles's

19:26

status as king. So,

19:28

I think the rift

19:30

between the Dauphin, or now Charles

19:33

VII and Joan, seems to start happening fairly

19:35

quickly after the coronation.

19:39

Joan is now ready to take

19:42

Paris, recapture it from the English.

19:45

But Nancy Goldstone says Charles

19:47

has a different vision. He doesn't want

19:50

to fight. He prefers to negotiate

19:52

if he could. So, he

19:55

stalls and stalls

19:57

some more. When the King finds

19:59

When the enemy orders an attack on Paris, it's

20:02

too late. The English have dug

20:04

in. They're able to repel

20:06

the French forces. Joan's

20:08

presence at that battle means

20:11

nothing. They lost. They lost badly

20:14

there. Joan and her troops retreat

20:17

to a town further north, only

20:19

to find it under siege. Ever

20:22

courageous, Joan rides out

20:25

to attack the Burgundian forces.

20:27

And while she was out there, she

20:29

got pulled down by her cape,

20:32

walk her horse, and captured. And

20:34

so was she then expecting to be rescued?

20:37

That's what should have happened. But

20:40

what did happen is quite

20:42

different. And much, much

20:45

worse for Joan.

20:57

May 1430.

20:59

The maiden Joan of Arc has been captured

21:02

by enemy forces, by the

21:05

Burgundians.

21:06

And if she had just been any old person,

21:09

that would have been it for her. It wasn't

21:11

normal to negotiate for the release of

21:13

regular soldiers. Professor Charity

21:16

Urbanski. Generally, however, if

21:18

somebody of great military

21:21

importance had been captured,

21:23

it would have been normal for

21:26

the king to negotiate a ransom

21:28

for their release. Joan

21:30

has been of the utmost military

21:33

importance to the French army. She

21:35

has also been declared a member of the nobility.

21:38

And she is a potent symbol

21:41

to the people of France. You might expect

21:43

that Charles would have tried to negotiate for

21:45

her, but we don't have any evidence that he

21:47

did.

21:48

Instead, the Burgundians

21:51

sell Joan to the English. She's

21:54

made to stand trial before an

21:57

English-backed church tribunal.

23:58

dedicated

24:01

to her mission and sure of herself.

24:03

If they push her on a question that she doesn't

24:06

want to answer, she tells them, next,

24:08

I'm not answering that, move on.

24:11

Joan is desperate to escape.

24:14

One day, she jumps

24:16

from the tower where she's been imprisoned. She

24:19

survives the fall but is knocked unconscious

24:22

and locked up again. Her

24:24

inquisitors try to use that act to discredit

24:26

her too. They say, were

24:29

you trying to commit the sin of taking

24:31

your own life? And she says, essentially,

24:34

as a prisoner, of course I'm going to try

24:36

to escape. In May

24:38

of 1431, a year

24:40

after her capture, Joan is brought

24:43

before a court to hear her formal

24:45

charges. Ultimately, like

24:47

this list of 70 initial

24:50

charges are winnowed down to 12 that

24:52

they feel like they've gotten to stick.

24:55

At this point, Joan is tired.

24:58

She's been sick. She's kind of coming

25:00

to this low point and one day they

25:02

basically take her out to see the scaffold they've

25:05

erected for her. And they say, essentially,

25:07

you

25:07

know, we found you guilty on these charges. If

25:10

you abjure your heresy, we will welcome

25:12

you back into the church. But if

25:15

you do not, we're going to execute

25:17

you as a condemned heretic.

25:19

In her weakened state, before

25:22

the scaffold meant to kill her, Joan

25:25

complies. Here's Nancy Coles-Jones.

25:28

They get her to sign a confession. She

25:30

doesn't know what it says. Right, she can't

25:32

read. And she signs it with the X.

25:35

They take that as being the

25:37

retraction.

25:39

They put her in a dress. A dress.

25:41

Because one of the charges had to do

25:44

with her heretical clothes.

25:46

She repented, put on the dress, and they said, oh,

25:49

not so fast. You got to go back. And they

25:51

chain her up again and they stick

25:53

her with the same awful guards in the castle.

25:57

There are a few different stories about

25:59

what happens next.

27:56

until,

28:01

in 1920, she is finally

28:03

canonized and becomes St. Joan.

28:08

Joan the maid, when she lived, was

28:10

a walking paradox— at

28:13

times fiery and impulsive,

28:15

at others calm and composed,

28:18

mystical yet pragmatic.

28:21

An illiterate country girl who

28:23

led thousands of loyal troops

28:25

and essentially crowned a king.

28:28

Charity Urbanski says this

28:31

complicated Joan is a window

28:33

on her time. She is

28:35

a really interesting case

28:38

study in some of the contradictions

28:41

of the Middle Ages, right? She

28:44

arises at a time when

28:46

there are very strict gender expectations

28:49

for women, when a French

28:52

peasant girl wouldn't have been expected to

28:54

do any of these things.

28:56

And yet she's able to, so I think

28:59

she helps us understand the society

29:01

more deeply, rather than just seeing

29:03

it as this completely hierarchical and

29:06

sexist society. Yes,

29:08

all of those things are true. And

29:10

yet we have Joan.

29:20

So

29:26

worth watching? Check your local TV listings

29:28

to find out what's on the History channel today.

29:31

If you want to get in touch, please shoot us an email

29:34

at our email address, historythisweekathistory.com,

29:37

or you can leave us a voicemail, 212-351-0410. We

29:43

really love to hear from you. Special

29:46

thanks today to our guests, Nancy Goldstone,

29:49

author of The Maid and the Queen, the

29:51

secret history of Joan of Arc, and

29:54

Charity Urbanski, Associate

29:56

History Professor at the University of Washington.

30:00

on Joan's story, we recommend Helen

30:02

Caster's book, Joan of Arc, A

30:04

History. This episode was

30:06

produced by Julia Press. It

30:08

was story edited by Jim O'Grady and sound

30:10

designed by Dan Rizzotto. History

30:13

this week is also produced by Corinne Wallace,

30:15

Chloe Weiner, and me, Sally Helm. Our

30:18

associate producers are Hazel May and

30:20

Emma Fredericks. Our senior producer

30:22

is Ben Dixitine. Our supervising producer

30:24

is Mckami Lynn, and our executive producer

30:27

is Jesse Katz. Don't forget to

30:29

subscribe,

30:29

rate, and review History this week wherever

30:32

you get your podcasts, and we will see

30:34

you next week.