0:00

The History Channel Original Podcast.

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History This Week.

0:09

Or actually, History

0:12

Tomorrow.

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On Saturday, May 6th, Charles

0:18

III, the former Prince of Wales

0:21

and the eldest son of Queen Elizabeth II, will

0:24

be crowned King of England. His

0:27

wife Camilla will be crowned Queen.

0:30

Now, Charles has technically been

0:32

King since Queen Elizabeth died in September,

0:35

but during Saturday's coronation, the

0:38

crown will physically be placed on

0:40

his head in a formal ceremony

0:42

that has been happening for centuries. This

0:45

event is just brimming

0:46

with history, from the venue and

0:48

the ritual to the fascinating

0:50

and sometimes strange traditions that

0:53

accompany the crowning of a king. So,

0:56

as history unfolds before our eyes,

0:59

we wanted to talk to an expert who could tell

1:01

us all about what to expect from this

1:03

coronation. The old and

1:05

the new, what it will look like and

1:08

feel like, and what the mood is like

1:10

in London as the United Kingdom gets ready

1:12

for an event it hasn't witnessed in

1:14

more than 70 years.

1:16

Katie Nicholl

1:18

is Vanity Fair's Royal Correspondent.

1:21

She's the author of The New Royals and

1:23

also co-host of the Vanity Fair podcast,

1:26

Dynasty.

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2:23

All right, Katie Nichol, welcome to History This Week. Thank

2:26

you very much for having me. It is indeed a historical

2:28

week. It truly, truly is. And in fact,

2:30

I was going to say, we are a history podcast,

2:33

but this moment, it almost, it feels

2:35

like history is just unfolding

2:37

in front of our eyes in the present

2:40

moment. And I know that in fact, your

2:42

writing and reporting are really focused on

2:45

the royal family as it exists today. In

2:47

fact, if I'm not mistaken, you're coming from a palace

2:49

briefing right now? Yes, I've just just

2:51

come out of a palace briefing where we've had more details

2:54

about the coronation and the ceremony, all

2:56

of which I'm afraid is embargoed, but you can read

2:58

about it in my report on Vanity Fair over

3:01

the coming days. But suffice

3:03

to say, I

3:04

think as you would expect of an occasion like this,

3:07

it has been planned in the most

3:09

meticulous detail. It's going

3:11

to be absolutely sensational.

3:13

I mean, there's a total of 10,000 troops,

3:16

both from the UK and overseas, who

3:18

are going to be involved in this coronation.

3:20

And that procession of military will

3:22

be one mile long. It took them two

3:24

runways to do a practice

3:27

of this. So I think even

3:29

compared to the

3:31

procession for the Queen's funeral, which is, I

3:33

think, probably most fresh in people's

3:35

mind, this is on an even greater

3:38

scale. So it is a truly historic

3:40

moment. And I think obviously

3:43

it'll be monarchists and royalists

3:45

who will tune in to watch it. But I do

3:47

think people will be interested in it

3:50

because I think it's just a rare moment. It's

3:52

something that most of us have never

3:54

seen or experienced in our lifetime. Yeah,

3:57

it's true that most people in...

3:59

England have not seen a coronation in

4:02

their lifetime. In fact, the most recent coronation

4:04

was of Charles' mother, Queen

4:06

Elizabeth II, and was way back in 1953. She

4:10

was 27 years old. And

4:12

let's talk about that context. What was her

4:14

coronation like?

4:15

Well, it was an incredible

4:18

moment for Britain. It was a few years after

4:20

the war, so you still had a very much

4:22

war-ravaged United Kingdom.

4:25

And it's hard to imagine

4:27

what Britain was like in those days. It was a very

4:29

different country with a very different

4:31

ideology. She was a young

4:33

queen. I think everyone fell in love with Queen Elizabeth

4:36

because she was so beautiful. She

4:38

was so young. She became

4:40

queen so early, far sooner than she

4:43

ever expected. And I think for

4:45

a

4:46

nation that had been so splintered

4:48

and fractured and damaged by war, this

4:50

moment of coming together, this sense

4:52

of community, of rallying behind

4:54

this beautiful new young queen,

4:57

the young mother of two, was an exciting

4:59

opportunity for most people. Many

5:02

rushed out to buy television sets for the occasion.

5:05

Right, it was the first televised coronation. It

5:07

was the first televised coronation, absolutely.

5:09

And so

5:10

that in itself made it such an iconic

5:13

moment. You look back at those black and

5:15

white pictures, you look back at that footage

5:17

of the queen in the gold state

5:19

coach, and it was an incredible

5:21

moment. And of course, you have to wonder whether

5:24

this coronation is going to live up to

5:26

that momentous occasion

5:28

back in 1953. I think it will. I think

5:30

it's going to look different. I think it's going

5:32

to feel different. It will be different. But

5:35

that is the beauty of monarchy. It has to evolve.

5:37

It has to move on to stay contemporary

5:40

and to stay modern. And I think we'll see that reflected

5:42

in the service on the 6th of May.

5:45

I mean, living up to Elizabeth's reign

5:47

in general, it sort of, it seems like it's

5:50

a feeling of this moment because

5:52

she was queen for 70 years. She

5:54

was the longest reigning monarch in the history of the country. And

5:57

Charles, therefore, has been waiting so, so

5:59

long

5:59

And I guess I wonder, how do you

6:02

think that

6:03

is influencing the feeling around this moment for

6:05

him and for the country? In terms

6:08

of for Charles as King,

6:10

we've had some time now to get used to him as monarch.

6:13

We've had his first official Christmas

6:15

broadcast, which for many people is a strange

6:17

moment because we've always had the Queen in our living room talking

6:20

to us on

6:21

Christmas Day. But actually the transition

6:23

for me, I think, has felt quite seamless.

6:25

And I feel that Charles has very

6:28

much stepped up to that role

6:31

in a very effective way. So I

6:33

think there is a lot of goodwill

6:36

towards him. I think the

6:38

general mood in Britain, we're just beginning

6:40

to get excited about the coronation. It always takes us

6:42

a while to get warmed up. But as I walk through

6:44

the streets of London, I'm seeing flags, I'm seeing

6:46

bunting, I'm chatting to people who are organizing

6:49

street parties or just planning to come into

6:51

town and watch a part of it, to go and

6:53

watch the service on one of the big screens that's

6:55

going to be erected in Hyde Park. And

6:58

when you think back to 1953, the way that

7:00

people would clamor around, perhaps a

7:02

neighbour if they didn't have a television set themselves,

7:04

to witness this moment, we're going

7:06

to see something on a completely different

7:09

scale. I mean, this coronation has an emoji

7:11

all of its own. It's going to be streamed

7:14

and watched in so many different guises.

7:16

But I think, actually, most

7:18

people are going to want to watch it on the BBC,

7:21

on their TV, if they can't watch it in person.

7:24

And in that respect,

7:26

it's not going to be that different to 1953 at all. It's

7:29

a moment where people will be glued to their TV sets.

7:32

I'm really feeling as you're talking the sort of push-pull

7:35

of the future, the present,

7:37

the past, all kind of like, I don't know, battling it

7:39

out here. You say there's this new emoji for

7:42

the coronation, which of course is a first. There's

7:44

the televised aspect, which recalls

7:46

the 1953 coronation.

7:49

I guess, you know, in the mix

7:51

of all that sort of like, past, present, future,

7:53

I do want to just drill down for a moment

7:55

on Charles himself. Can you tell me, who

7:57

is this man who's at the centre of this whole

7:59

house?

7:59

Well, he was the longest-serving

8:02

Prince of Wales. He served as Prince

8:05

of Wales, the deputy you want, if you want,

8:07

the heir apparent for 64 years.

8:10

And so the man you saw as Prince of Wales

8:12

is the man we have as king. It's not like

8:14

he's had a personality transplant, just because he's become

8:16

king. The things that drove

8:18

him as Prince of Wales are the issues that he still

8:21

cares passionately about. He cares

8:23

deeply about the future of the

8:25

next generations and the generations to come. He

8:27

cares about the planet. He wants his

8:29

legacy

8:29

to be as the eco king, the

8:32

green king who did everything he possibly could

8:34

to preserve and conserve the planet. I

8:37

think he's a man who we've all grown to

8:39

respect far more over the years when

8:41

you consider the issues and the campaigns

8:43

that he was actively talking

8:45

about many years ago. He

8:48

was seen as a bit of a joke. People

8:50

didn't take him seriously. Things like environmental

8:53

sustainability that now look sort of prescient,

8:55

yeah. And now he's been proven to

8:57

be so right with so many things. But

8:59

you know, there was a time when he was

9:02

at the bottom of the polls. He wasn't popular.

9:04

And Camilla was reviled. I mean,

9:06

you think back 20, 25 years, it

9:09

was a very, very different picture for Charles,

9:11

a time when actually, you know, many people thought

9:14

he wouldn't make a great king.

9:16

Well, fast forward, you

9:18

know, 25 years, and here we have a

9:20

man who I think most people would agree

9:22

is better equipped, arguably

9:25

than any previous there, to take on this role

9:27

because of the love of printed ship

9:30

he's had.

9:31

One thing as you're speaking about all of that that

9:33

I'm thinking about is that, you know, whenever

9:35

you talk about the royal family, a long,

9:37

long history is sort of never far out of frame.

9:40

Of course, like, that's part of the point of the institution is

9:42

to refer back centuries.

9:44

And then with Charles, he has so much personal history that

9:47

he brings to this job too. I mean, of course,

9:49

as you're alluding to his marriage to Princess

9:51

Diana, the dissolution of that marriage and

9:53

her death, that was all a low point

9:56

for him in terms of his

9:58

public life. Now he has become

10:01

king. And a lot of time has passed even

10:03

since that moment, which feels like relatively recent

10:05

history. And it feels like he's having his

10:07

moment. I think this feels like Charles'

10:10

moment. You know, the job that he's waited

10:12

his entire life to do comes at a point

10:14

in his life when he's happy,

10:16

he's happily married, he's got the woman

10:18

he's always loved by his side. You know,

10:20

the late Queen expressed it. It was her wish that Camilla

10:23

became known as Queen Consort. Well, we now know that

10:25

she's going to be Queen Camilla.

10:27

But we haven't had a king and queen

10:29

since George VI and Queen Elizabeth. So

10:32

it's a new landscape for all of us. And,

10:34

you know, you made the point earlier about following

10:36

in the reign of Elizabeth. I mean, how can anyone

10:39

follow that great example of service,

10:42

duty and devotion to her subjects?

10:44

But I think

10:46

Charles is going to have a pretty good job at doing

10:48

that. And the point is, he's going to be doing

10:50

it his own way. And I think that's where we'll

10:52

see differences. Well,

10:54

let's talk about that in terms of the coronation

10:56

itself. So this ceremony

10:58

is going to be taking place at Westminster Abbey, which

11:01

has held every single coronation since 1066, which

11:04

was just an unimaginably long time ago. But

11:07

Charles, as you're alluding to again, he's

11:09

kind of talked about modernizing the monarchy.

11:12

He's very concerned about sustainability. He's

11:14

concerned about not being a drain on

11:16

the British taxpayer, especially

11:19

at a time when people are struggling economically

11:21

in the country.

11:22

So I guess what I'm wondering is sort of, how do you

11:24

think we can expect to see that in the coronation? What

11:26

do you think we'll see that will feel

11:29

old

11:30

and what will feel new?

11:32

Well, I think the Abbey will

11:34

feel old because that's been the

11:36

venue for coronations as

11:39

long as time goes by. Out of the structure

11:41

of the service, when you hear some of those hymns

11:43

and some of that very evocative music that's

11:45

so synonymous, adult the priest,

11:48

that is that sort of spine-tingling

11:51

piece of music that you absolutely

11:53

associate with the coronation, with

11:55

all things royal. So you're going to get

11:57

that sense of history,

11:59

that sense of...

14:04

People will really be thinking about the monarchy and

14:06

what it means and what it is in this moment

14:08

of coronation and perhaps thinking

14:10

back to the last coronation in 1953. I'm curious,

14:14

what do you think the monarchy means in

14:16

England today and how has that

14:18

meaning changed since the last time we

14:21

did this? Well, I mean, the monarchy has

14:23

had to evolve and the Queen, while

14:25

she kept so many of

14:27

the traditions of her parents

14:30

and generations before her, also

14:33

knew that the secret to the success of monarchy

14:35

was evolution. She did it in a very

14:37

considered and careful way. I

14:39

don't think Charles has

14:42

that benefit of time on his side.

14:44

I think he's going to have to make an impact more

14:47

quickly. Everything about

14:49

his reign is different. The

14:51

fact that he's not going to be on the throne for so long, the

14:53

fact that Britain is such a different place

14:56

to when it was back in the 50s. But

14:59

again, I do feel positive about the future

15:02

of monarchy. I mean, I think when you consider that

15:04

the King himself has seen two prime

15:06

ministers, you look at the flux

15:08

of the British political system,

15:11

the scandals and the parties and everything

15:13

else that sort of creates endless headlines

15:15

in terms of the political world. At

15:17

the heart of our unwritten

15:20

constitution, at the heart of Britain,

15:22

is the monarchy. And it does

15:24

represent stability. It does represent

15:27

that sense of constancy. I think

15:29

when you look back to a few years ago, when

15:31

we were in the midst of that global pandemic,

15:33

I certainly remember being so

15:36

assured by the Queen, by

15:38

hearing her voice, by hearing her telling us as

15:40

a nation that everything would be okay

15:42

and that we would meet again. And it was as if hearing

15:45

the Queen saying that

15:46

made us all believe that everything was going to be okay.

15:48

And I think, particularly now and

15:51

in the fast paced modern, modern

15:53

world that we live in, there is

15:54

something very special about the ceremony

15:57

and the pomp and the pageantry that

15:59

come with the royal family.

15:59

And of course they are an endless source

16:02

of fascination. Indeed. And

16:04

I think the sort of continuity

16:06

that you're speaking about, I think people will feel that this weekend.

16:09

Like a coronation moment like this, a ceremonial

16:11

moment, it's all about that, about referring

16:13

to these long centuries of history. It

16:15

is. And you have to think about what the alternative

16:18

is as well. Well, an elected head of state, that

16:20

is the alternative. But,

16:22

you know, that would be a very different road

16:24

for Britain to go down. And I think most

16:26

people would feel that they've lost

16:28

a sense of British identity if

16:31

they were to lose the royals. I mean, certainly the polls

16:33

that have been commissioned in recent days suggest

16:35

that

16:36

not only has Charles' popularity

16:38

surged since he became king, but

16:41

support for the monarchy is above 50%.

16:44

I think the last figure was about 64%

16:47

in favour of keeping the monarchy. And

16:49

that's a pretty good stat.

16:51

Katie Nicholl, your book is The

16:53

New Royals. Your podcast for Vanity

16:55

Fair is called Dynasty.

16:58

And I'm sure you're going to be covering the coronation, right? Are

17:00

you going? I will be there. I will

17:02

be covering it for Vanity Fair. I

17:04

will be covering it for NVC The

17:06

Today Show. We've got a wonderful spot

17:08

looking right onto the abbey. And I've

17:11

never covered a coronation. I have done royal

17:13

births, royal marriages,

17:15

jubilees, sadly,

17:17

two royal funerals, never

17:19

a coronation. So I'm

17:21

very, very excited. I'm excited to watch

17:23

it. I'm excited to have this wonderful ringside

17:26

seat to history in the making.

17:29

Well, thank you so much for talking us through it today. It

17:31

was great to have you on the show. It was lovely to join

17:33

you and thank you very much for having me.

17:38

Thanks for listening to History This

17:40

Week. If you're looking for more royal

17:43

history, check out some of our other episodes on

17:45

Oliver Cromwell, The Abdication

17:47

of King Edward VIII and Henry

17:50

VIII, and on

17:51

Anne Boleyn. For more moments

17:53

throughout history that are also worth watching, check

17:55

your local TV listings to find out what's on

17:58

the History Channel today.

17:59

If you want to get in touch, please shoot us an

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editor is Jim O'Grady, and this episode's

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This Week is also produced by Julia Press,

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