0:00

Today we're tackling a topic that many of us

0:02

might not think about until it's too late

0:04

the risk of flooding . It's

0:07

a common threat and it's important to talk

0:09

about not just the dangers , but also

0:11

the solutions . Have you ever considered

0:13

how you would protect your home from rising

0:15

waters ? Today we're going deep

0:17

into what it means to be prepared . We'll discuss

0:20

how taking action now can

0:22

save a lot of heartache and loss in the future

0:24

. My guest is Del Schwalls , a seasoned

0:27

flood plane management consultant from Florida

0:29

. In addition to years of expertise , Del

0:31

also has a very personal experience . His

0:33

family's home was heavily damaged by Hurricane

0:36

Michael . He's seen firsthand

0:38

what happens when a community is hit

0:40

hard and the tough rebuilding

0:42

that follows . He's here to share his insights

0:45

on why it's crucial to build homes that can withstand

0:48

floods . We'll explore the tough choices

0:50

homeowners face . Do you ignore the advice

0:52

and hope for the best , or do you take steps

0:54

to make your home safe ? Del's

0:57

story is about learning from the

0:59

past to build a better future

1:01

. He knows the importance of getting a community

1:03

on board with higher building standards that

1:06

can prevent such disasters from

1:08

happening again . I'm

1:10

George Siegal , and this is Home Owners

1:12

Be Aware the podcast that teaches

1:14

you everything you need to know

1:16

about being a homeowner . Del . Thank

1:19

you so much for joining me today .

1:21

Thanks , george , we'll be here .

1:23

What part of the country are you in as I'm speaking to you

1:25

?

1:26

I'm in sunny Orlando Florida .

1:28

Very nice , Alright , not too far from Tampa

1:30

Now . I met you when we were interviewing

1:33

you for the documentary film I'm making Built

1:35

to Last Buyer . Beware and I know

1:38

you're a floodplain manager , you're a floodplain expert

1:40

. When

1:42

people hear that they don't always understand

1:45

what that is , Tell us exactly

1:47

what a floodplain manager is .

1:50

Well , it's a thousand different

1:52

hats depending on who you're talking

1:55

to , but in general , we're looking

1:57

at ways to manage

1:59

the flood risk , so reducing

2:01

flood damage , looking

2:04

at how new things are built in

2:06

the flood risk area and

2:08

making sure they're built correctly . Managing

2:11

the natural functions of the floodplain , so

2:13

ensuring we're actually using

2:15

the floodplain for what it's designed

2:18

to be , which is flooded . It's not called

2:20

a dry plane , it's called a floodplain for a reason

2:22

, and so essentially

2:26

working through how human

2:30

interaction with

2:32

a natural floodplain happens

2:36

, and whether it be

2:38

building infrastructure or

2:41

just natural functions .

2:43

Yeah , people really need to understand how important that

2:45

is , and I thought , well , maybe we'd get a few good things

2:47

out of you . We could have turned this into the Dell movie , because

2:50

you had so many interesting things to say and

2:52

, in particular , about Mexico Beach

2:54

, because I made another documentary there after

2:57

Hurricane Michael in 2018 . And

2:59

I was so hopeful that they would

3:01

take that storm , use it as an

3:03

example and then really

3:05

do things better . But it hasn't

3:08

turned out that way . Tell people the way it's going

3:10

up there .

3:11

Well , it started that way and

3:14

I think there were some really good intentions

3:17

initially after the storms

3:19

. But hindsight

3:23

is 20-20 until you stop looking

3:25

at the past and

3:28

I think the memory

3:30

got short . And so , whereas right

3:32

after the storm the city

3:34

did look at building safer and

3:37

it wasn't abandoned ship , which a lot

3:39

of people would say would be the way

3:41

to go you have a 14-foot wave come

3:44

through part of your town . You

3:46

know it's definitely part of the conversation , but

3:49

it was looking at what's a higher

3:51

standard , a more resilient standard

3:54

to rebuild , and

3:56

they did for a while , and

3:58

then political pressure came in and it's

4:00

more expensive . That conversation came

4:03

in , of course , and eventually

4:05

the elected officials

4:07

step

4:10

back and lowered the standards

4:12

again , which is really

4:14

disheartening for somebody like me who

4:16

not only am I in this industry but

4:18

I have a vested stake in this community

4:20

because I have family and friends who either

4:23

have vacation houses there or

4:26

live their year-round . And

4:28

to see the short

4:30

memory go from building

4:32

higher to allowing somebody who

4:35

had a 14-foot wave come to their house to rebuild

4:37

six inches off the ground is

4:39

hard to stomach .

4:41

I can imagine and it's not like you're just some

4:43

guy sitting in Tallahassee who says this is

4:45

what you have to do . Like you said , you have

4:47

a vested interest in that community . Your

4:49

mom lives there . You

4:52

want that to succeed and

4:54

they had you as a resource which

4:56

I would think they would have wanted to take advantage

4:59

of , and it didn't sound like they took full advantage

5:01

of what could have been some incredibly good advice

5:03

.

5:04

Well , yeah , so I was a I

5:06

guess , a free resource initially . I

5:09

was a stakeholder

5:11

in the recovery process , helping

5:13

my parents navigate the recovery process

5:16

, a lot of friends and family . So

5:18

right after Hurricane Michael I

5:20

was part of the Mexico Beach Facebook

5:22

group and I just threw my name

5:24

out and said , hey , I'm in this industry , I'm

5:27

happy to help anybody go through the process and

5:29

explore things . And

5:32

then I was watching a lot of the conversations

5:35

. I was talking to some of the staff . I

5:37

actually had one of the city attorneys reach out

5:39

to me and asked me questions . A city

5:42

commissioner reached out to me and we had an

5:44

hour-long conversation about new

5:46

regulations and what to

5:48

do and how to implement that

5:52

. But I guess the more information

5:55

I shared , the

5:58

less popular some of that information

6:00

was . And

6:03

yeah , I

6:05

definitely was

6:08

not part of the full conversation .

6:10

By the end we'll say yeah

6:12

, because people might ask questions , but they already

6:14

have figured out what they want to hear back from you and

6:16

then if they don't like the answer

6:19

, it can be very frustrating for them . Now I had

6:21

never been to Mexico Beach until after

6:23

Michael , so I didn't see what it looked like in

6:25

its original stage . But I imagine

6:28

along the beach some houses were elevated

6:30

, some were not based on what washed

6:32

away . Now it looks like

6:34

everything close to the water is being elevated

6:37

. So where are they really falling apart

6:39

in this process and just not going

6:41

up high enough ?

6:43

Well , we've got a little bit of state

6:45

regulation that's overruling

6:48

, kind of what the city would do if they

6:50

had their preference . So

6:53

a lot of the homes that were

6:55

there before were built in

6:57

the 50s or 40s or even earlier , before

7:00

the flood maps were established , before

7:02

the flood regulations and before

7:04

some of the state close to erosion regulations

7:06

. So most of those houses

7:08

were slab on grade homes and the

7:11

elevated homes are going to be more of your modern , your

7:13

more recent development . But

7:15

you've got the coastal construction

7:17

control line , the CCCL

7:20

, which runs through about

7:22

. It's just seaword of Highway

7:25

98 , which runs down the middle of Mexico

7:27

Beach , and so anything seaword

7:29

of that has to be built up higher regardless

7:31

of the local regulations , and

7:34

so that

7:37

kind of overrides it . And so a lot of those you're seeing

7:39

that are built up higher since

7:41

the last year and a half are going

7:43

to be built because the state requires

7:46

it , cccl requires it , whereas

7:48

the city's regulations say if

7:51

you're in the hundred-year flood zone you only have

7:53

to be a foot and a half above FEMA's number

7:55

, and the state minimum is

7:57

a foot above . So it's only six inches

7:59

higher than the same

8:01

requirement in Orlando , which

8:04

is not going to have a way to come through it .

8:07

Now , and can you if you're on the

8:09

water side of the highway ? So

8:11

are you saying you're not allowed to go as

8:13

low as 18 inches off the street , or , if you're

8:16

right by the highway , it's okay to be that low

8:18

?

8:19

Well , the coastal construction line

8:21

runs a

8:23

long parallel to the

8:25

highway but it doesn't hit all the houses

8:28

. For example , it hits my parents'

8:30

house which is four houses from the ocean

8:32

, but it won't catch

8:34

some of the other neighbors . So

8:37

to answer the question , I

8:40

guess more directly , the state

8:43

says you have to be elevated , but

8:45

for the city regulations , some of those

8:47

homes that are just

8:50

next to Highway 98 , that

8:52

are four houses from the ocean , they

8:54

can be built

8:56

18 inches above the ground .

8:59

Wow , that would . That would be a very questionable

9:02

choice . I would think to to

9:04

do something like that . And another thing you said that was really interesting

9:06

and I think this can apply to people that live anywhere Is

9:09

when you understand the flood zone that you're in , in

9:11

the neighborhood that you're in , and some people go , yeah

9:14

, block over there in the flood

9:16

zone , but I'm not . That's

9:18

really a false sense of confidence on where

9:20

water is going to stop if all hell breaks

9:23

, lose and there's a massive flooding

9:25

event . So why are people so cavalier about those

9:27

?

9:28

Well , I think one of the things we do in the

9:30

floodplain management community , and especially

9:33

the communities themselves , is we

9:35

use the word flood zone to

9:37

mean floodplain , and they

9:40

are not the same word at all

9:42

. Flood zone is an area

9:44

that's been mapped by somebody to

9:46

quantify a certain risk , usually

9:49

related to Protecting

9:52

an investment of insurance

9:54

. So if I'm going to insure your property , you have

9:56

to at least do this minimal and

9:59

. But floods don't read maps

10:01

, and so the idea that

10:03

a arbitrary line on the we're not arbitrary

10:05

, it's based on data , is based on analysis . But

10:08

the idea that a line on the map drone

10:11

at the county level

10:13

of resolution is

10:16

going to inform a flood and and

10:19

it

10:21

doesn't quite pass the sniff test

10:23

. And Once you start talking

10:26

with somebody about this and the logic of

10:28

it , they usually recognize

10:30

oh well , of course , the

10:32

floods not gonna behave

10:34

like the map says . But

10:36

we forget that immediately when

10:38

we start actually doing things . We

10:41

honestly like the general Individual

10:44

who's either building a house choosing

10:47

whether they buy flood insurance or the community

10:49

regulating it . We behave as

10:51

if the floods going to stop at a line

10:53

because we drew it on a map .

10:56

Couldn't people actually see that as an opportunity

10:59

? So if , if , if you're a block away

11:01

from the flood zone and you're

11:03

not marked as a as a as a higher risk

11:05

, you probably get flood insurance for less money , then

11:08

the people that are in that zone and

11:10

, and the bottom line is , anybody that

11:12

lives anywhere in those areas in fact anybody anywhere

11:14

Probably wants to have flood

11:16

insurance .

11:18

Well , under the previous FEMA

11:20

flood insurance rating system , in

11:23

or out of that flood zone would translate

11:26

to a cheaper flood insurance policy

11:28

. However , under the new system

11:30

, the analysis

11:32

ignores the flood zones . So

11:35

even FEMA has recognized

11:37

that the binary in

11:40

versus out Category

11:42

doesn't work for flooding

11:44

protection .

11:47

So the days of scoring a great deal are gone . So

11:49

, like all those people from Hurricane Harvey that were

11:52

near the dam but they weren't in a flood area , now

11:54

they would , in theory , have to pay a lot more to

11:56

have flood insurance there , or is that ? How does that

11:58

work ?

11:59

well , the Assessed

12:02

flood insurance premium is now

12:04

at the higher level , but

12:06

if you already had flood insurance at the lower

12:09

level , you're on a glide path to

12:11

get there , so that anybody

12:13

knew now is going to be paying more . Absolutely

12:16

so they still should .

12:18

They still should think about having it .

12:20

Well , absolutely . You know . It's like

12:22

my parents . My mom said they

12:24

weren't going to get flood insurance because they were in

12:26

the X zone , and I very

12:28

quickly Informed her they were

12:31

going to get flood insurance , and

12:33

then a 14 foot wave came through the house

12:35

, and so you . I've

12:37

had a lot of conversations with homeowners

12:39

on barrier islands . They

12:41

can see the ocean and they complain

12:44

that 900 a year in flood insurance is

12:46

just too expensive . And

12:49

it seems too expensive

12:51

when you're used to paying 500 a year

12:53

. But when you're on a barrier

12:56

island , the risk is in the

12:58

word it's a barrier to the

13:00

hurricanes . And

13:03

then you start talking about Somebody's

13:06

risk near the ocean versus somebody's

13:08

risk in the middle of Kansas

13:10

, 20 miles from a river

13:12

. Should you be paying

13:14

the same thing for flood insurance ? Probably

13:17

not .

13:19

I've just heard so many stories of people in other

13:21

parts of the country that , because

13:23

of construction in the area , the

13:26

town to the north of them

13:28

, things change , the dynamics

13:30

change and all of a sudden , water is now a problem

13:32

for them . And you really have

13:34

to be so aware , not just of your

13:36

situation but the entire situation around

13:39

you .

13:40

Yeah , so back in the 70s , when the

13:42

FEMA flood regulations first got established

13:45

, after Hurricane Donna really

13:47

triggered the need for a national flood insurance

13:49

program , the

13:51

idea of planning for the future

13:54

conditions is embedded

13:56

in the regulations . It's a federal requirement

13:58

. Nobody follows it

14:00

and FEMA doesn't enforce it . So

14:03

when we started this conversation , fema

14:05

said , yes , you have to look at the future . What's

14:08

the ultimate development going to be ? But

14:10

I guess it's hard to manage . It's

14:12

expensive , it's very administratively

14:14

challenging . So it got

14:16

thrown out the window very quickly

14:18

and there's not a lot of communities that actually enforce

14:21

that federal regulation and FEMA's

14:23

not requiring it most of the

14:25

time .

14:27

That seems kind of contrary to being proactive

14:29

about disasters . Isn't it

14:31

a lot cheaper to think about it on the front end

14:33

than to clean up on the back end ?

14:36

It is , and I'm definitely not trying to throw

14:38

FEMA under the bus . You know FEMA's a very small

14:40

word to describe a giant group of

14:42

people . At the end

14:44

of the day , you have limited resources and

14:46

where are we going to spend those resources ? But

14:49

yeah , it is much more cost effective

14:51

to prevent the damage than

14:54

repairing it later . Out

14:56

of all the analysis and the reports that

14:58

have looked at this , some say for every dollar

15:00

you spend preventing the damage

15:03

, you save six on recovering

15:05

. And even the most

15:07

low estimate say $1

15:10

saves four . And so it's extremely

15:13

beneficial financially to

15:16

keep the damage from happening .

15:19

And then we talked to another gentleman in Mexico Beach who

15:21

was we talked

15:23

to him out on the street looking up at all the houses that

15:25

are being elevated , but they're being made out of

15:27

wood , and

15:30

he thought they should all be built like the house we featured

15:32

in the last house , standing out

15:34

of some type of block reinforcement not

15:36

wood , and not just because of

15:39

of flooding but

15:41

because of wind . And he said when you're elevating

15:44

these wood structures now , the higher

15:46

you go , the stronger the wind is . So

15:48

he thought they might be more dangerous now that they're elevated

15:50

than they were at ground level .

15:53

Well , sometimes they can be and

15:55

there is a benefit to having

15:58

a little bit of movement

16:00

. You know it's like when you build a

16:02

bridge . You don't build a bridge to be rock

16:05

solid it needs to move with the wind

16:07

. That makes it safer , so the

16:10

building materials may have something like that . I'm not a structural

16:12

engineer so don't quote me on that , but

16:16

you know it's funny . With the last house

16:18

standing conversation at

16:20

the National Flood Conference for ASFPM

16:23

several years ago , that house

16:25

came up a lot right

16:28

after Hurricane Michael and some of those storms

16:30

and there was a really

16:33

big mixed emotion about it

16:35

because a lot of the design professionals

16:37

in the flood world were saying we

16:39

don't want to communicate the

16:43

idea of build a tank on the beach

16:45

and you're fine , especially

16:47

with sea level rise and climate change coming

16:49

about , because

16:52

you can build something that will withstand it . But

16:55

does it make sense to spend $9

16:59

per dollar you could have

17:01

to

17:03

build that tank or

17:05

would another option be warranted

17:08

?

17:09

Yeah , we did see some impressive construction

17:12

over in Panama City where they have the tie

17:14

downs from the foundation

17:17

to the first floor to the second floor . It's all connected

17:19

. It's all pretty tight . But I've had people

17:21

tell me , yeah , but if there's a category five hurricane , that's

17:23

not going to do as well as a

17:25

concrete block house would . But

17:28

a gentleman I interviewed in the

17:30

last house standing , hank Ovinck , talked

17:33

about how much can you bunker your community ? How

17:35

much can people , will people spend ? So

17:37

maybe they're doing it right . I guess we won't

17:39

know until the next disaster and

17:41

you never really want to find out that way , because then

17:44

it's too late .

17:45

Yeah , well , and it's the

17:47

idea of what's acceptable risk . We

17:51

looked at . You know , hurricane Michael came through Mexico

17:53

Beach with a 14 foot deep wave . Do

17:56

you build everything in Mexico Beach

17:58

14 feet off the ground ? Well

18:01

, that would protect you from a Michael . But

18:04

a mile and a half down the road there

18:07

wasn't even ocean on the ground in

18:09

some areas . So do

18:11

we want to protect from a Hurricane Michael 14 foot

18:13

wave , or is there a lower level

18:16

to protect , to knowing

18:18

that if a big one hits , we're

18:21

going to get damaged ? But we're going to accept that

18:23

risk . You know it's how

18:26

many . How many donuts do you eat

18:28

for your health ? Well , there's an acceptable

18:30

amount of risk for the enjoyment of that extra

18:32

donut . And so I think

18:34

that's part of the conversation is what is the acceptable

18:37

risk ? Because we can't protect everything .

18:39

Well , if I saw you stuff in your face with donuts

18:41

and I'm sitting right next to you and then I see you have a heart

18:44

attack and die , I might think twice about eating

18:46

donuts . Exactly yes

18:48

.

18:49

But in reality , you

18:52

know , I've got family . Well , I won't go down these

18:54

rabbit trails because they have , but

18:56

yeah , it's a very valid

18:58

statement .

19:01

So when you look at your mom's house as an example

19:03

, it was elevated , but it

19:05

got a lot of water inside . What was that like after

19:08

Michael ?

19:10

Well . So there were a couple

19:12

of perfect

19:14

storm conditions going on with her

19:16

house as well . So the house was built

19:19

at a higher standard because the original

19:21

person who built it wanted to , so

19:23

it's elevated . The bottom level was

19:25

breakway walls , so when the

19:27

waves came through , it pushed out the stairwell

19:30

walls without pushing the building

19:32

over , which is great . That's

19:34

what it's designed to do and

19:36

they had hurricane shutters which kept the wind

19:39

and the rain out . The problem

19:41

is is , once that bottom level got pushed out

19:43

, then the wind got in

19:45

, went up the stairwell and pushed the shutters

19:48

out from the inside , and

19:51

so then the rain driven water got in

19:53

from top to bottom , and

19:55

so , while the structure , the envelope , was still

19:57

standing about the end of it , the

20:00

whole thing had to be gutted , the

20:02

water sealant drywall pulled out

20:04

down to the rafters and

20:06

to the studs .

20:08

And how long , how many years did it take to get it back to normal

20:10

?

20:14

A year and a half , I think they

20:17

got the CO , I believe in

20:19

April of 2020

20:22

.

20:23

Okay now I was interviewing a gentleman the other day

20:25

. We were talking about that wood construction

20:28

that they do up in the panhandle and

20:30

he said his biggest concern is not necessarily the wind

20:32

worrying about it Like you say , you can't always plan for the

20:34

worst kind of disaster but because

20:37

it's there's so much wood when water

20:39

does get in . We have a huge termite problem

20:41

In the state of Florida and

20:43

you get that decay around windows and in parts

20:45

of the wall and then the structure is compromised

20:47

Because that wood

20:50

is now deteriorating and has been devoured

20:52

by termites . And he said that's actually a bigger risk

20:54

.

20:56

Yeah , it's , it's all part of

20:58

that , that conversation , because one

21:00

piece of damage opens it up to more , just

21:03

like the wind damage opened it up

21:05

to rain Water damage

21:07

. Well , now you got rotting woods , you have

21:09

mold and you have deteriorating

21:12

woods , so you have termites and and

21:14

, and , so it's definitely a combination there

21:17

. If you can stop

21:19

one , you can stop the other , and a lot of times

21:21

yeah , we're probably requires

21:23

a lot of maintenance .

21:24

Yesterday I interviewed the , the CEO

21:26

of the Tampa Housing Authority , and

21:28

it was really fascinating to see all the

21:30

new homes they're building For

21:32

people that are concrete . They're

21:34

only building concrete apartment complexes

21:36

, whereas a mile away from them

21:38

, for the rest of the population

21:41

, they're building wood Apartment

21:43

complexes . So it's like somebody has

21:45

it figured out and somebody's just ripe

21:47

for a disaster .

21:50

Yeah , well , and if

21:52

you were talking to , let's say , the average homeowner in

21:54

Mexico Beach , their first response

21:56

is gonna be well , we had concrete

21:58

block homes on Mexico Beach and those all got washed

22:01

away . Of course , they were slab on

22:03

grade with no rebar connecting

22:05

everything . And

22:07

so the anytime

22:10

the one size fits all kind of blanket

22:12

statement comes into into a conversation

22:14

about flood resiliency , it

22:17

very quickly communicates the wrong

22:19

message . You know , wood

22:21

versus concrete ? Well , there's some areas

22:23

where a Wood

22:25

structure might be that , but

22:28

the , the tie-down , the connection points

22:30

the foundation to

22:32

the piles , to the walls , to the roof

22:34

. Spreading out

22:36

that force of the hurricane

22:38

wind or even the flood waters

22:40

across the entire structure is

22:44

always Beneficial . And

22:46

then what is my construction Material

22:49

comes into play as part of that

22:51

conversation .

22:53

Did you get a chance to get out to Panama City and

22:55

see the house that tipped over in the tornado in

22:58

January ?

22:59

I did not there's a .

23:01

That's amazing . We went over there and got video

23:04

of that . I mean it says second

23:06

time it's happened to that house . There's a row of houses on

23:08

the beach there and with the same house tipped

23:10

over . That happened several

23:12

years ago and it was just that one house . Everything

23:15

else was fine , and Then

23:17

behind that , where that tornado hit , an

23:20

entire block of homes that

23:22

were apartments older buildings were

23:24

completely destroyed by

23:26

by a tornado . And I interviewed Roy Wright

23:28

, who's an expert

23:31

on resiliency and how to build things the right way Because

23:34

of the studies that they do with his organization

23:36

, and he said newer structures , structures that are built right

23:38

, wouldn't have that with your Regular

23:41

tornadoes , that there are things we have the technology

23:44

to build better , but

23:46

the older structures are going to be vulnerable and

23:48

then poor construction is always going to be vulnerable .

23:52

Yeah , and it's funny , I was

23:54

talking to a gentleman in Centabel who had

23:57

a house there , house from the 1800s

23:59

. His family's been in their family for you know , generations

24:01

and

24:06

during one of the hurricanes that house was literally picked up . It's a two-story house

24:08

. Wood

24:12

frame construction was picked up and moved I don't know two

24:14

or three houses down . The

24:17

entire thing was intact . It

24:19

was a very strongly built , you

24:21

know , a Very strongly

24:24

built . You know old

24:26

hardwood timber Construction

24:29

and so all they did was go in

24:31

and put Tim rolling timbers

24:33

under it and roll it back into place . And

24:35

Because that's what they did

24:37

back in the 1800s , because they knew the

24:40

waves are gonna come , but

24:42

nowadays a house like that would have been completely

24:44

, you know , destroyed

24:46

by the water .

24:48

Yeah . Dynamic that

24:51

is you boy . If you have a chance to look

24:53

that up or Google it in Panama City

24:55

, I mean , it's really unbelievable and it's even more stunning

24:57

to see it in person . It almost looks like

24:59

a set of toy houses and then

25:01

one is just knocked over , but

25:03

unfortunately that's somebody's life . That's there . That's

25:06

a lot of money it's gonna take to fix that and the fact that

25:08

it's happened twice . Good luck selling that house

25:10

now .

25:11

Yeah , well , I gave a presentation

25:14

on the Mexico Beach recovery at the Australian

25:16

floodplain conference this past year and One

25:19

of the examples I use is a homeowner

25:21

in Mexico Beach had

25:23

a four-story home , but

25:26

the picture I show you is a two-story

25:29

house , completely intact

25:31

. It's a blue house . We're

25:33

like well , what happened here ? And you don't realize

25:35

that those two stories that are on the ground

25:38

are story number three and

25:40

four of the

25:42

house that was Two

25:44

blocks away . It's a . During the

25:46

hurricane Michael it washed out the bottom

25:48

two and somehow Took

25:51

the third and fourth story and just floated it along

25:53

and set it down and the whole thing was intact . It

25:55

was just . It was the head , not the body

25:57

.

25:58

You know , I've always wondered why people choose some of the colors

26:00

that you do to paint their house . Maybe because it's easier to find

26:03

it once it blows away . You

26:07

know , we're chuckling about it , but it's so heartbreaking

26:09

when you see it

26:11

. It's like we used to go to Santa Belle Island every

26:13

year and it's just devastating what

26:15

happened there . They have such a long road to

26:18

recovery . It's just .

26:19

It's really sad to see yeah

26:21

, and I think one of the problems

26:24

with the whole flood recovery industry

26:26

in general is it

26:28

it's such a sound

26:31

bite today that's gone tomorrow . If

26:34

you talk to people about Mexico Beach today

26:37

, they may say , oh yeah , that was that city

26:39

from years ago , I think . But yeah

26:41

, they're fine now because nobody's

26:43

really paying attention , just like Panama City or

26:46

Fort Myers Beach . Those areas

26:48

, once it's past the headlines

26:50

, we kind of forget about it . And the

26:54

practical application of that is

26:56

that we often forget to continue

26:58

to learn the lessons that nature

27:01

has already taught us , and

27:03

so we memory is short .

27:05

Yeah , when you hear the term and I've heard so

27:08

many people say this when

27:10

I've interviewed them or talked to the people in the community

27:12

Well , maybe this will serve as a wake-up

27:14

call . I kind of feel we should

27:16

already be awake . We have the technology

27:18

to know we can do it better . We can

27:20

all see video of what happened to kind of

27:22

relive it . Why do

27:24

we continue to make the same mistakes ?

27:27

Yeah , well , and I think that's a

27:29

universal truth and the wake-up call

27:31

. We see plenty of them , but it won't happen to

27:33

me . And then when it does happen

27:35

to you , it doesn't

27:38

always change behavior . You

27:40

know if . If you have a heart attack , do

27:42

you immediately go healthy . If you

27:44

have a lung cancer scare , do you immediately

27:47

stop smoking ? So

27:49

those kind of same connections . If

27:51

my neighbor flooded , does

27:54

that mean I'm gonna abandon any

27:56

area that could flood ?

27:59

Yes , yes and yes .

28:01

It should and it .

28:02

You know that what it Excuse me . What is

28:05

true is we only see what

28:07

the media covers . It's like we stayed

28:09

in a place and we were up there Fort

28:11

St Joe . I had never heard of that . I

28:14

didn't know they even existed when , because all

28:16

the focus was Mexico Beach . They were

28:18

wiped out pretty bad too , and

28:20

it's just . There's so many

28:22

areas that you never hear about

28:24

. But they're living a very

28:27

sad existence now or a

28:29

long road of recovery because they weren't properly

28:32

prepared .

28:34

Yeah , there's a lot of areas like that that

28:36

they don't make

28:38

the sizzle reel on

28:40

the weather channel or they're

28:43

one video versus all the others

28:45

and and so we overlook it . And

28:48

you know it's like

28:50

when you

28:52

know some of these smaller communities get hit with

28:55

with the hurricanes and the storm surges , they

28:57

just if they're not as well

28:59

known of a name or it doesn't grab

29:01

somebody in a sound bite , we kind

29:03

of overlook them . You know there's a county north

29:05

of Panama City that

29:09

has been fighting , flooding

29:11

, ever since Hurricane Michael and

29:14

the entire county has

29:17

had issues with . You know , before Michael , no

29:19

real , real big flooding problems and

29:22

every since then , because of the way the

29:24

storm Demolish

29:26

the tree inventory so there's less

29:28

trees , drinking groundwater

29:30

, so when it rains the water stays , and

29:33

even some things we don't understand . There

29:36

are Areas that used to be fields

29:38

that have been a lake every

29:40

since Michael and it goes down a little

29:42

bit and it comes back up . So you have people that have been

29:44

in these areas for generations

29:47

, never had any standing water and

29:49

now their entire yard

29:52

has been a lake for two and a half years . Well

29:55

, that's rough that and and they and

29:57

they cry out for help , and they raised their hands for

29:59

help , but nobody pays attention . Because

30:02

if I said the county , you'd say , well

30:04

, I've never even heard of that place .

30:07

Yeah , if it doesn't , if it doesn't get in

30:09

the spotlight , it's very hard to To

30:12

have it change . What is the what's

30:14

the takeaway here , then , for people ? When

30:17

you're trying to pick a place to live , you're

30:19

trying to make a good decision . How

30:21

can you best position yourself

30:23

to not become a flood victim ?

30:27

Well , wait , before I jump

30:29

into that , I do want to mention that County . I'm talking about Washington

30:31

County . I wasn't gonna mention their

30:33

name , but they , their name doesn't get mentioned enough

30:35

. So I will say that that community , that

30:38

County , has been hurting ever since Michael and

30:40

they need to be a little more focused on . But

30:43

as far as when you buy a home , being

30:47

informed and not

30:49

trusting somebody else to tell

30:51

you what you need to know . And this

30:54

came up in in Orlando when

30:56

Hurricane Irma came through , your

30:59

hurricane Ian came through , the whole

31:02

city was under water , basically at times . And

31:04

and everybody's running around in

31:06

Orlando thinking how is this possible ? How

31:08

is this possible ? I was talking to my friends

31:10

, parents , who were standing on their street and

31:13

the three lakes in the neighborhood

31:15

were all one giant lake . And

31:18

her mom said I cannot believe the waters

31:20

is high . And I said well

31:22

, the FEMA footmap show

31:24

this is where it's supposed to be or where it's going

31:27

to be . And she was so surprised

31:29

that there was a map showing this

31:31

level of inundation . And

31:34

so they've lived there for decades

31:37

. But the idea

31:39

that when we make a purchase , we're

31:42

trusting the person selling

31:44

us the property to

31:46

disclose all the risk , that

31:49

, first of all , is

31:52

a little naive , because there's a conflict

31:54

of interest in the person selling you

31:56

something and and them telling

31:59

you all the problems with that thing , because

32:01

there's a concern that's going to hurt the property value

32:04

, and

32:06

even relying on the realtor

32:08

who's helping us buy it . They

32:11

only have a certain level of expertise and

32:13

most realtors are not fluent in flood

32:16

, even in a state like

32:18

Florida , and so , as a homeowner

32:20

looking to buy something , you've

32:22

got to make sure you're

32:24

you're trusting , you're

32:27

not just relying on big brother to tell

32:29

you everything that you need

32:31

to know , and so really doing a lot of research

32:33

.

32:34

You ever play the game hot potato when you were growing up

32:36

, where you just that's that's what a lot of it seems

32:39

like owning houses around here is it's like , well

32:41

, I'll just toss it to the next person and make it their problem

32:43

. Somebody's got to put their foot down and say

32:45

this isn't safe .

32:47

Yeah , when that gets into the , the

32:49

flood disclosure laws . And

32:52

this is a huge battle because there is no

32:54

federal flood insurance requirement or

32:56

disclosure requirement or

32:58

, sorry , flood damage disclosure

33:01

or even a disclosure that

33:03

flood insurance is going to be required until you show

33:05

up to the closing and

33:07

that gets

33:09

implemented a lot at the local level or

33:12

some states have these rules , but

33:15

it's an issue because the realtor lobby , you

33:18

know , the folks selling properties , are

33:20

concerned that this is going to decrease

33:22

the value of the property . And

33:25

so as I have the conversation about flood disclosure

33:27

, I always go

33:29

. I always go towards why

33:32

Well , I don't want

33:34

to disclose it because then it's

33:36

going to decrease the property . That why ? Well

33:39

, because then people will know they have

33:41

to buy foot insurance . Okay

33:44

, so you don't want the person buying

33:46

it to know what they're buying . And it's

33:48

really hard for them

33:50

to backpedal away from that conversation

33:52

Because

33:55

the , at the end of the day , whether

33:57

it hurts property value , it reduces

33:59

the amount of sales . It always lands

34:01

on If

34:03

the person buying it new , they

34:07

pay less , they may not buy it . They

34:11

be informed and I stand

34:13

up at city commission meetings and when people push back they

34:15

, they will not

34:17

say that out loud , and so it quickly changes

34:19

the conversation . Well

34:22

, why can't ?

34:23

and I think we discussed this when I was

34:25

with you in person . Why

34:28

can't there be car facts reports for houses

34:30

that are really extensive ? Because if my car floods

34:32

and I go to try to dump it off on my neighbor , they can at least look

34:34

at that car facts report and they're going to know why

34:37

. Why isn't there that kind of registry ? That

34:40

should be an absolute no brainer .

34:44

Well it it should be . But

34:46

then you've got the the other side

34:48

that's pushing back against it , because Once

34:50

again , if you know , my house flooded . It's

34:52

going to be harder for me to sell it and also there's

34:55

a lot of well and we

34:57

should . But then there's the political pressure , but

35:03

there's also a lot of data needed

35:05

for that and there's a cost associated with it . And

35:10

really , george , one

35:13

thing I think we forget

35:15

is that we are

35:17

often over educated beyond what we take

35:19

action on anyway . I had somebody say

35:21

years ago you know , we're educated beyond our

35:23

own obedience . So

35:28

if I give you more data , if you're not using

35:30

the data you have now , why

35:32

would I expect you to use it if I give you more data ?

35:36

Well , I think with a house , I think with

35:38

a house it could stay with a little more , especially

35:40

the Zillow or one of those places Picked

35:42

it up . I mean , sure , I understand you want to sell houses

35:44

, but that doesn't mean it's a free-for-all

35:47

, that you should be able to say , well , let's just let these people

35:49

screw the next person . I mean that it's

35:52

got to stop somewhere . And I think every house

35:54

should have a permanent record . You know , if I

35:56

go shoot somebody , that's

35:58

going on my permanent record .

36:00

I think houses need that and I

36:02

100% agree and I wish we had that

36:05

for sure . It's finding the

36:07

political will to get it across the

36:09

finish line and to get it actually passed in the

36:11

legislation . And that's the bout

36:13

, that . That's the battle there , because you always

36:15

have somebody saying , well , you're hurting

36:17

, you're hurting my ability to sell it . And

36:20

of course it spins to the well , you don't

36:22

want somebody to know the risk . It's

36:25

that back-and-forth conversation . So I'm with you 100%

36:27

. I wish we had a house facts

36:29

that had a . History

36:32

.

36:33

I agree and not to go off on some rant , but I think anything

36:35

that relies on politicians getting something done

36:37

, we're completely screwed because

36:39

, as we learned , as we're learning

36:41

when we're talking making this film , the

36:43

lobbying efforts that go on up there , the

36:46

fact that almost everybody that when you read

36:48

stories about people that got into politics to

36:50

be Public servants and they end leaving the

36:52

office and they're so wealthy , I mean

36:54

somehow the system is not working really good

36:56

.

36:57

Yeah , well , I'm

36:59

on the board of directors for the Florida

37:01

floodplain managers association and

37:04

we're the Florida chapter . There's a national association

37:06

of state footplay managers and almost

37:09

every state has a state footplay manager

37:11

chapter , and so one

37:13

of our jobs is to educate the elected officials

37:16

and educate the , the folks in

37:18

Tallahassee , on legislation because

37:21

, like you said , the lobbyists they're

37:23

such a powerhouse and

37:25

such deep pockets , and

37:27

so one of the benefits of this organization with

37:30

FFMA , is that we can we

37:32

don't lobby , we educate and we're

37:34

trying to help the , the folks , push

37:37

in the laws , see the unden , unintended

37:39

consequences of that

37:42

legislation and how it affects their , their

37:44

citizens , which is tricky

37:46

.

37:47

I've met so many Really interesting

37:49

people that are floodplain managers , been to some

37:51

conferences and everything , and I think you guys do a great

37:53

job . How can we turn you into lobbyists

37:55

? Okay , let's get you guys

37:58

up there to start paying people off , because

38:00

you'll be doing it for us . You'll be on the

38:02

right side of it well

38:04

, and we're trying , and

38:06

the well .

38:07

The number one thing for lobbyists is funding

38:09

. You know , I mean , where

38:11

do you , how do you fund that kind of effort ? But

38:14

also , once you step

38:16

across into the lobbying realm , you

38:19

can lose credibility , because

38:21

if I'm pushing something for an

38:24

entity with an agenda

38:26

that's very different

38:28

than we're a nonprofit organization

38:30

Sharing education and

38:33

and we really do we we dance the line

38:35

of lobbying . Because , you know , with

38:37

our nonprofit status , we're not allowed to do

38:40

any lobbying and so we're

38:42

just trying to educate the elected officials

38:44

. But our

38:46

goal , my goal , would be for us to be

38:48

at the table . You

38:50

know we have a flood issue . Let's call

38:52

the floodplain management association and ask

38:54

their input , ask their questions , to

38:57

help drive that conversation .

38:59

Absolutely that . Everybody should be tapping into you guys

39:01

as a resource , and even people moving to a community

39:03

. They should call down to the , to the city

39:05

, and find out who the floodplain manager is and ask

39:07

them questions .

39:09

Yeah , that's . One of my favorite things is our executive

39:11

director will send us an email because I'm on

39:13

the board and say Random

39:15

, homeowner Suzy Smith just emailed

39:18

us and said I found you online , I'm

39:20

buying a property , I want

39:22

your input and it's

39:24

such a great feeling to see that we're . We're getting

39:27

out there , or the FEMA

39:29

will refer them to us . Occasionally We'll refer

39:31

developers and property owners to us , but

39:34

we're and we're a limited resource . There's

39:37

always so many people in an organization

39:39

so we can only do so much , but

39:41

we're trying .

39:42

I think it's because of me , because I'm telling everybody now

39:44

. So three or four more people know and

39:47

they're all gonna do

39:49

something . But hey , del , thank

39:51

you for the work that you do . Thanks for being in the film

39:53

. I appreciate you doing the podcast . How can people get

39:55

in touch with you or follow you

39:57

? Any social media or any good

39:59

way to get to reach out to you ?

40:01

Yeah , I'm a D Schwalls is my

40:03

LinkedIn , you can follow me there and

40:07

I think the best way go to

40:09

FL floods , to Florida

40:11

FL floods , and

40:14

that is the FFMA website and I'm on the

40:16

board of directors and

40:18

any resources you need . Are there any contact

40:20

? And we have 1100 members across the state of

40:22

Florida , most of

40:24

which are community officials , and

40:26

so if you want information about your

40:28

local community and the flood risk Odds

40:31

are , your local floodplain manager is part

40:33

of our organization . But

40:35

, yeah , definitely reach out and just get informed

40:38

. You cannot be Overly

40:40

informed when you're buying property

40:42

in Florida , because if you're in Florida

40:44

, you're in a floodplain Period

40:47

. If where it rains , it can

40:49

flood , if you can see the river

40:51

, if you can see the ocean , you can see the lake , you can

40:53

get wet .

40:55

Well , thank you for getting me nervous way before hurricane

40:57

season , but everybody needs to know this stuff . I mean , it's not

40:59

always fun to hear it , but it's important

41:02

to hear it .

41:04

Absolutely , and I think I

41:06

also mentioned Gilbert white

41:08

, who was kind of the father of floodplain management . He

41:12

had one of my favorite quotes by him . He said

41:15

Nature

41:18

doesn't cause disasters , nature

41:21

causes events . It's only a disaster when people get in

41:23

the way . And

41:26

I think with floodplain management that's a

41:28

really accurate statement . The floodplain is gonna flood and

41:32

if nobody's there to get damaged , we don't call it a

41:34

disaster , we call it an event . And

41:37

so , looking at the floodplain , recognizing it's supposed

41:40

to flood , and

41:43

how can we use that as part of our community

41:45

and let it do what it's supposed to do , rather than trying to Dry

41:47

out the floodplain ? All

41:50

right , hey , del great advice

41:53

.

41:53

Thank you so much . Appreciate your time . Thanks , george , enjoy

41:55

being with you .

41:55

If you have a story about your house , good or

41:57

bad . I'd like to hear from you .

42:02

There's a contact form in the show notes . Fill it out and send it my

42:04

way . You

42:07

might be a guest on an upcoming episode . Thanks

42:10

again for taking the time to listen today . I'll

42:13

see you next time .