0:00

If your house had a plumbing problem , are you confident

0:03

you could pick up the phone and get the right person

0:05

out to fix it ? If you're building

0:07

a house , do you have that same confidence

0:09

in the plumbing crew your builder is

0:11

using ? That raises the question are

0:14

there enough qualified plumbers out there that

0:16

we can count on at all ? My

0:18

guest today is Matt O'Rourke . He's been involved

0:20

in the plumbing , sewer and drain industry

0:22

for more than 25 years . He's

0:25

been involved in the plumbing , sewer and drain industry for more

0:27

than 25 years . He's

0:29

going to take us inside the walls of your home , giving us important information that can make

0:31

the difference between success and failure in

0:33

taking care of your plumbing issues . I'm

0:36

George Siegal , and this is Homeowners

0:38

Be Aware the podcast that teaches

0:40

you everything you need to know about

0:43

being a homeowner . Matt , thank you so much

0:45

for joining me today . Thank you . I appreciate

0:47

the invite . Now . Anybody

0:50

that's ever called a plumber knows

0:52

you can get a good person showing

0:54

up and you can get a bad person showing

0:56

up . How important is it to find

0:58

the right person to do the job ? That's

1:01

a great question .

1:02

And it's a tough one because you really don't know

1:04

who you're going to get , and plumbers can

1:06

range in different

1:08

levels of experience or skill level . I

1:11

think the most important

1:13

thing you can do is really communicate what your expectations

1:15

are , you know , is it water

1:18

conditioning , water filtration , is

1:20

it hot water ? So that way , the

1:23

business or service provider

1:25

you're calling can pair you with the

1:27

plumber that's the most experienced

1:30

in that , and compassion plays a big role

1:32

in it . If I'm passionate about water

1:34

heaters or water filtration or conditioning

1:36

, clearly I'm

1:38

going to be more experienced

1:41

and educated on that specific product

1:43

. And when you think about plumbing , it is

1:45

huge , right ? I mean , there's a lot

1:47

involved in plumbing , different from

1:50

faucets to toilets , to

1:56

drains , to boilers and water heaters . There's all kinds of different things

1:58

. So , yeah , I'd really try to be upfront and set expectations of what

2:00

you're looking for when you're hiring a plumber .

2:03

Yeah , I think when I've had the worst

2:05

experiences is when I've had some of those home warranties

2:07

where they have somebody

2:10

that they send out

2:12

and sometimes I've learned there's a reason that

2:14

person was available for taking less money

2:16

for that job and

2:18

that's frustrating . And then the other time is when

2:20

you're building a house , or even when you buy

2:22

a house , whoever the builder used

2:24

to do their plumbing , that can have a major

2:27

effect on how that job comes out .

2:28

Oh , absolutely . And new construction plumbers are

2:31

different from service plumbers . And then you brought

2:33

up home warranty , which is a whole different animal

2:35

because , like you

2:37

know I'm going to be honest they don't get

2:39

paid very much . Home

2:41

warranty companies want the problem fixed

2:43

is for the lowest cost possible

2:46

, which is not always the

2:48

best thing to do .

2:50

Yeah , low bid wins is never a good thing , I think

2:52

, when it comes to fixing stuff in your house .

2:54

It really isn't .

2:55

I had a friend who was a plumber one time and

2:57

I said how do you get away with charging

2:59

what you do per hour ? And he looked at me and

3:01

he goes it's the tools .

3:03

He has the right tools to fix things . Now I know it's a lot

3:06

more than that the tools in the

3:08

head . And again , be

3:11

honest , look at

3:14

the expectation of what you're trying . If you have a leaking

3:16

toilet and that's a fairly new toilet

3:18

you just need to fix . That's way different than

3:20

getting a new toilet , because

3:22

I don't like sending our customers

3:24

to Home Depot or Lowe's or any of the box stores

3:26

you know it doesn't matter which one and say , go pick

3:29

out what you like and I'll install it

3:31

, because there are a lot of options out

3:33

there with new technologies that for

3:35

some , what they have at those

3:37

box stores might not be what you really are looking

3:39

for and you need a plumber that can

3:42

kind of explain that and educate you on

3:44

all the different options that are out there

3:46

. It's like you would never buy a car for

3:48

one place , right ? You're not going to go to a box store

3:50

and buy a car . You're going to go and hope

3:52

that the salesperson actually tries to sell you

3:54

on your expectations , your family

3:56

, lifestyle , all of those things that play

3:59

into it .

4:00

Now having the wrong person and

4:02

what we've learned . Like we have an upstairs bathroom

4:05

where they didn't put the seal in right when they installed

4:07

the toilet , and when that happens on

4:09

the second floor , that water has to go someplace

4:11

and it ends up on the first floor you can have major problems

4:14

. How can a homeowner quality

4:16

control those kind of things ?

4:21

Are you really just at the mercy of whoever the builder chose ? Well , you

4:23

are at the mercy , and you're at the mercy of marketing

4:25

, right ? If a business

4:30

or a plumbing company does really good at marketing , the chances are you're going to probably

4:32

find them first and then you're going to call them without knowing who that person is

4:35

. I obviously

4:37

looking at reviews . Now you know

4:39

you don't want

4:41

somebody that has all five-star reviews , because that's probably

4:43

not real and we all have issues

4:46

, we all have mistakes and sometimes you just want to make

4:48

sure that the business or the plumbing company

4:50

you're hiring is going to stand behind the work

4:52

and take care of it no matter what happens . But

4:54

ultimately , don't

4:57

just abandon and let

4:59

them do whatever they want and not check up on

5:01

them when they're done . We take our

5:03

customers and I would recommend a homeowner

5:06

go there , flush it three times with

5:08

them . There , you know , have them show you what

5:10

they did . The

5:12

ones that are going to be really proud of their

5:14

work are going to want to take you and show you what

5:16

they did . If they're not doing

5:18

that or they're rushing , then red

5:21

flags kind of start to come

5:23

up . Right , you know , if I

5:25

like to say this to our plumbers educate

5:28

the homeowner as a homeowner

5:30

, if you don't clearly understand what

5:32

they did and what you paid for , that's

5:35

probably a good start to a sign

5:37

that something's not right you know

5:39

. We should be able to educate you so

5:41

you understand exactly what the problem was and

5:44

what we did to fix it and

5:46

ask for options .

5:47

You know , because there's always options . Yeah

5:49

, those five star reviews are always sketchy to me . If there's

5:52

, if there's too many of them , it just means you have a big family

5:54

and a lot of friends . I like the

5:56

two or three star , where the company actually goes

5:58

on there and says , well , what

6:01

can we do to make this right for you ? Or

6:03

they explain . Sometimes the customer is just

6:05

a total a-hole and they're the problem . But

6:07

you'll learn more from those .

6:09

A hundred percent . It tells a

6:11

story right . So the more you can tell a

6:13

story about the business you're hiring . And

6:16

again I think it goes back to

6:18

there are really good plumbing companies for

6:20

new construction type plumbing

6:22

. There are really good companies that

6:24

snake drains and get sewers open and excavating

6:27

. And there's really good companies for

6:29

water conditioning and water filtration . But

6:31

that doesn't mean the new construction

6:33

plumber is gonna be able to educate you on water

6:35

conditioning and water filtration or water

6:38

softeners . So you really wanna

6:40

find a plumber that you can trust that's

6:43

gonna be open and honest with you . When they say

6:45

you know what , that's not what

6:47

I'm an expert in . Let me find somebody who can

6:49

help you . And it might be going to a manufacturer

6:51

, it might be going to a

6:53

local wholesaler or plumbing supply

6:56

store and say , hey , who do

6:58

you know that has installed this or who

7:00

do you know that can help with that and get some

7:02

real world industry

7:05

guidance or suggestions

7:07

as far as that goes .

7:09

So the person who fixes a drain

7:11

or a clogged toilet is not necessarily

7:13

the person I want for my water softener or

7:15

the RO system . Yeah , most likely

7:18

, not .

7:18

Yeah , yeah , they might

7:20

be great at doing one thing , but

7:22

plumbing , again , it's a huge industry

7:24

. They might be great at doing one thing , but plumbing , again , it's a huge industry . And you

7:26

know we , we bring water in , we take water out

7:28

dirty water , heat water condition

7:37

and filter water . And I promise you I'm a master plumber . I've been doing this a long

7:39

time . I'd like to think I know quite a bit , but there's no question

7:41

, I'm not an expert in all of it .

7:43

Now , I think women can do anything men can

7:45

do . Why are there not more female plumbers ? It

7:47

seems like it's a male-dominated profession

7:51

.

7:51

So , believe it or not , that is changing . We

7:54

have five locations that now have female

7:56

plumbers and apprentices . You

7:59

know , I think the world's changing . You

8:03

know I came in the industry in the 90s and

8:06

I think when I grew up , it was

8:08

great-grandfather

8:11

, grandfather , dad , son

8:13

that's who's going to be in the trades , going

8:15

all the way back from the beginning of the

8:17

United States . Well then , I

8:20

think in the 80s it was college , college

8:22

, college , college , and then

8:24

technology came and I think that broke

8:26

right . So the education piece

8:29

kind of stepped in and people

8:31

, in a way , almost shamed young

8:33

people for going into the industry or the trades

8:35

. It was like , hey , why aren't you going

8:37

to college ? Hey , why don't you have a college degree ? I

8:41

think that hurt the trades for a long time . Um

8:47

, I think that hurt the trades for a long time . Um , well then , fast forward into , you know , covid and

8:49

people started really looking at the trades as , hey , this

8:51

is an essential industry

8:53

, right , people are still working . Or

8:55

look at college debt . You know , I've I've got

8:57

$150,000 of

9:00

college debt I got to pay off and I'm only making

9:02

50 , $60,000 a year coming

9:04

out of college with this degree that I

9:06

was told I had to get . And

9:08

you know now I think , going

9:11

to your question with you know

9:13

young women are looking

9:15

at hey wait . You know what

9:18

other opportunities are there besides

9:20

that college degree . And you

9:23

know , today , equipment

9:25

there's a lot . You know strength

9:27

. All of that is starting to become

9:29

a little bit easier with all the tools and and

9:32

especially equipment and

9:34

dollies and all that good

9:36

stuff . So , um , but yeah , I

9:38

think that's changing . I think you're going to see a change a lot

9:40

faster too .

9:41

Yeah , I think that , um , you know , people realize

9:43

they can pay off that college debt with one or two house calls

9:46

. No , I'm kidding

9:49

, I think that's such an important thing

9:51

and to have the right person

9:53

come out . And I find

9:55

, you know , looking on social

9:57

media groups , finding neighbors that

9:59

have used people , and

10:02

then when you call , it's

10:04

finding somebody that's , as you say

10:06

, sends the right person out , because the

10:09

wrong person can really set you back when they come

10:11

out and try to do a job , horribly

10:13

, and I want to be clear too

10:15

education

10:17

is very important .

10:19

It's just , how do we educate

10:21

the young people ? In any

10:23

career path we're , we're

10:25

all at the mercy of , you know , whatever university

10:27

you go to or whatever trade school you go to , or

10:29

whatever you know in our world the

10:32

plumber I decided to join to become

10:34

an apprentice , for I'm going to learn

10:36

from that person . Well , you

10:38

know , is that person , have they

10:41

been educated or

10:43

how did they come up in the industry ? Because , more

10:45

than likely , that's how they're going to train that young person

10:47

, right ? Well , you know

10:49

, there's a lot of math and science in plumbing

10:51

and there's a lot of problem solving . And

10:54

then we have to communicate with homeowners . You know

10:56

that alone can be very

10:58

tricky , right , I'm coming to you . I've never

11:00

met you before . I'm in your home . Most

11:02

times I'm in very personal spaces

11:05

of your home . You know bathrooms and basements

11:07

and you know , I've seen the hoarders

11:09

and I've seen the . You know all

11:11

the differences of people and

11:13

homeowners . Well , you know , you have

11:15

to have that relationship

11:17

and you got to do it rather quickly , right

11:19

. Build that trust and get you to like me so that

11:21

way I can communicate

11:24

appropriately , and so there's

11:26

a lot that goes into this stuff . So you

11:28

know , when you're hiring somebody for to

11:30

do work at your home , you're now

11:33

you're a . You know you're

11:35

an interviewer right , you're , you're now

11:37

a manager , you're hiring

11:39

people . And you got to approach

11:42

it like that too , because I think the more for

11:45

homeowners , the quicker you can establish

11:47

that comfort level between

11:49

you and the contractor , the plumber .

11:51

you're going to be able to get more of the truth and

11:54

really understand and be much more

11:56

comfortable and confident in their abilities had

12:04

in businesses that I've run a lot of times is finding good people , because

12:06

sometimes your business is only as good as the people that you

12:08

find . Is that a challenge for you guys

12:10

? Because I know that when

12:12

I see trades I live in Tampa , florida , and

12:14

some of the people that have come out here I'm going how are these people

12:16

in business ? They either are late for the

12:18

appointment , they show up and they give

12:22

you a bid based on what they saw when they drove

12:24

up , not necessarily what the job should cost . I

12:26

mean , there's so many things that can screw it up from

12:28

a business perspective . So how tough

12:30

is that ?

12:31

Yeah , it's

12:34

getting easier , believe it or not , because

12:36

again we're getting a different type of person that's

12:39

interested in the trades . So

12:41

, like in the past , you'd have a really good

12:43

trades person or mechanical aptitude

12:45

person , but they were horrible

12:48

at the soft skills or the punctuality

12:50

. I like to say plumbers , we

12:53

are fantastic at math and science . We

12:55

are all horrible at comprehension for the

12:57

most part . You know no one likes to read

12:59

. You know they probably didn't go down that road . But time management you

13:01

know they probably didn't go down that road , but

13:03

time management awful . You know

13:05

over-promise and under-deliver you hear that

13:08

a lot . When I started

13:10

the business I started realizing , you

13:12

know , my plumbing skills isn't what

13:14

I need to focus on . I need to focus on

13:16

dispatching , time

13:19

management , scheduling , marketing

13:22

. You know you start to shift

13:24

because what's the most

13:26

important to people ? You

13:34

know , a lot of times through the years the complaints weren't you did a horrible job plumbing

13:36

. You didn't show up and you're going to say , yeah , but show up . I took the whole day

13:38

off work . You know I waited

13:40

four hours for you . It took

13:42

a lot longer than I thought . All

13:45

of those things go into this . Those

13:49

reviews again tell you a story . They

13:53

charge me too much . I

13:56

like to say we're not going to be your Walmart purse

13:58

, we're not going to be your Louis Vuitton purse , but

14:00

you're really looking for a contractor that's going to be like

14:02

a coach purse Not too cheap

14:04

, not too expensive , but they're going to

14:06

show up when they say they're going to show up . They're going

14:08

to do what they say they're going to do and

14:10

I feel , okay , everything

14:13

was great , the price , eh

14:15

. But I don't have any other

14:17

complaints besides that . You know all

14:19

A's and maybe a C in price and I think

14:21

that's what you should really be looking for .

14:27

Now friends of mine , my wife included , feel they're going to get a different price if the woman of

14:29

the house is home versus the man of the house . They feel like they're

14:31

going to get taken advantage of . It's like with mechanics

14:33

, plumbers , electricians trades

14:36

. I'm sure you don't do

14:38

that , but does that go on in the industry ? You think

14:41

there's no ?

14:41

question it does . Look

14:44

. I mean there's two different ways to pay people . You have

14:46

commission and then you have hourly

14:48

. You know , and

14:50

it's tough , right , because a commission plumber

14:53

there's no question , I

14:56

feel the ethics start to come in

14:58

to some degree and then an hourly plumber

15:00

they might be looking to take more time

15:03

. Now what ? Try

15:09

to ask enough questions that you understand

15:11

, as a homeowner , what it is that

15:13

the plumber is going to be doing and how much

15:15

. For If you understand

15:17

what's going to be done and the reason why it

15:20

has to be done and how much it's going to be , know

15:23

that before that work starts so you can

15:25

approve it , and then you'll feel comfortable and confident

15:27

and don't listen to everybody else saying , oh , you overpaid

15:30

for this or my cousin could have done it for this

15:32

price , that much cheaper . As

15:34

a homeowner , if you know you have a plumbing

15:36

problem , you want it fixed , and you

15:38

set expectations and the work's

15:40

completed for an agreed upon price

15:42

, then that's a win

15:45

and I feel like that's

15:47

the best approach to take this because I promise

15:50

you a plumber can charge $50

15:52

an hour or $600 an

15:54

hour . It

15:56

really does come down to what

15:58

is . What are you having done at your home and are you

16:00

comfortable with the price you paid and you understand

16:02

what was done with that agreed upon

16:05

price .

16:06

I always love it when someone says my cousin can do it

16:08

. I've had that when I've gone out and bid for video

16:10

projects and somebody goes oh , you know , I

16:12

bid $10,000 for a job one time and the guy

16:14

goes well , my cousin said he could do it for a thousand

16:16

and I said you want

16:18

me to match that ? I go . No , I said , but would

16:20

you do me a favor and show me that video

16:22

when it's done ? I would love to see what that thousand

16:25

dollar video is like .

16:26

I mean , if you're looking for the lowest price , cause

16:35

, you know , for whatever reason

16:38

, then , just again , I would

16:40

say to the plumber as they come in hey look

16:42

, you know my budget's $200

16:44

. This is what I'd like to have done . Can you do

16:46

it or not ? And if

16:48

they say , nope , I'm at $600

16:50

and you can't find , you know

16:53

, I'm not saying don't negotiate

16:55

, because here's another thing too

16:57

. You know , if you're having a plumber

16:59

come to your house and do a small

17:01

little task , you know , let's just say

17:03

your bathroom sink is slow

17:06

draining , now that's probably a

17:08

pretty easy fix , right , it's

17:10

probably just , you know , a bunch of hair or gunk and

17:12

we can get that clean . And you're going to pay

17:15

a higher rate just because we

17:17

still made the trip out there . And you know

17:19

, a lot of companies might charge an hour minimum . But

17:22

if you say , hey , I want , here's a long

17:24

laundry list of things that I'd like to have done

17:26

or , you know , this faucet's leaking , this water

17:28

heater's not working , this drain's slow , I

17:31

promise you , the more you have done , it

17:33

starts to bring that rate down as

17:36

far as having . You know , now we have more

17:38

things to do and we could probably get a couple more

17:40

things done in the same amount of time as

17:42

it would take us to do something very simple . So

17:46

again , I would really caution homeowners

17:48

the more you can

17:50

save our time as plumbers

17:52

by saying , okay , here's what I got , here's our

17:55

budget . There's nothing

17:57

wrong with with kind of negotiating that Cause

17:59

plumbing isn't like hey

18:01

, here's a you know , a

18:03

pound of strawberries and it costs

18:05

$8 . You know it . it really

18:07

is it's

18:10

fair to be negotiating . You know to some degree

18:12

, but yeah , never

18:14

hurts to ask . You're comparing apples to apples . Did I come

18:17

to you on a Saturday on time

18:19

and show up and

18:21

you know professional

18:23

and I'm going to protect your property . I'm going to give

18:25

you a warranty , I'm going to stand behind my work . There's

18:28

value to that right .

18:29

Absolutely . Now where should I be buying my plumbing

18:32

products ? Should I be going to places like

18:34

Lowe's and Home Depot ? Should I go to a supply

18:36

store ? If I have to go get

18:38

something , what's the best course for me to

18:40

follow ?

18:41

Yeah , I'm

18:43

not saying do not go to the retail box stores

18:45

, but they're very limited in the supplies

18:47

and I promise you what you find

18:49

in a retail box store is not

18:51

the same quality as what you will

18:53

find in a plumbing wholesale or

18:55

a plumbing store . A

18:57

good example is power tools . The

19:00

power tools that you buy at those stores

19:02

are not the same quality

19:04

and make than if you went to a

19:06

real tool store . They might look the same

19:09

but they might be made out

19:11

of the country . There's

19:14

a price point right , and there's

19:17

no question the higher the price , the

19:19

quality should be going up

19:21

. My

19:24

biggest recommendation would be to

19:26

find a manufacturer and go to their website

19:28

, plumbing especially

19:30

. There is just not enough space

19:33

on those shelves at those stores to

19:35

show you all the latest and greatest and the

19:37

new technologies coming out . And

19:39

then you're again . You're . You're limiting yourself

19:42

to a specific brand and

19:44

, for an example , navi and water heaters . Most

19:47

home motor probably will never , ever see that and

19:50

that is a very good

19:52

water heater and it's tankless , it's a limited

19:55

water heater and they are

19:57

awesome , but you're not going to find it at

19:59

one of the stores that most people

20:01

can walk into . So

20:03

I would do a lot of research . I think the

20:05

more research you do online and

20:07

you know whether it's Google , searching or

20:10

looking through trade magazines you

20:12

can . There's a lot of really neat things

20:14

out there that people just aren't aware of and again

20:16

you're at the mercy of that plumber coming to your

20:18

door . If that plumber doesn't know about

20:20

it , or educating themselves , or

20:23

they've been in this industry for 20 years and

20:25

they're still doing the same thing 20 years

20:27

ago as today , then you

20:29

got , you're going to . You're

20:31

going gonna get limited to what options you have

20:33

. Um so long

20:36

answer , but I would definitely

20:38

find your local wholesaler . Uh , walk

20:40

in there , they have

20:42

coffee and popcorn and pop

20:44

and you know , just start asking questions

20:46

, say hey , tell me the latest and greatest hang

20:49

on one second I gotta let my dog out this door , yeah

20:51

home shows are cool too . Oh , got it . What's

20:54

that ? Yeah , home shows

20:56

you know yes

20:58

you can . You

21:00

can get a lot of really cool information and

21:03

meet a lot of neat people there .

21:05

Yeah , my challenge has always been and it's

21:07

gotten a lot better in places like lowes and

21:09

home depots is finding help . Um

21:12

, and when you walk into some of those supply houses

21:14

there seem to be very knowledgeable

21:16

people that help you pretty quickly .

21:18

Oh , and they can refer you too .

21:21

Yeah , no , that's good .

21:23

Another thing you can do is go to your local municipality

21:25

and your building department . They

21:27

can't refer people to you

21:29

, but you can say , hey , can you give me a list of companies

21:31

that have pulled permits or

21:33

have done this type of work ? And

21:36

you get a pretty good beat on who

21:38

is a reputable or somebody you

21:40

can trust Now .

21:42

Most plumbing repairs , though , don't

21:44

need to be permitted , do

21:47

they ? I know people get in trouble

21:49

when they don't get permits for certain things , but it's not

21:51

like adding on an extension at your house . If somebody

21:53

is putting a new water heater in , that's not

21:55

. You don't need a permit for that .

21:57

Replacing water here you do , actually replacing

22:01

a toilet , you don't or a faucet or fixing

22:03

anything but

22:05

. But even outside of that , the

22:15

building departments are going to know who's doing things at least

22:17

the right way , because normally when people have complaints or people you

22:19

know maybe give a down payment or pay for a service

22:21

and then it's not , they

22:24

don't show back up or something

22:27

goes wrong . The first complaint is usually to the

22:29

local building department , so

22:31

you know if there's something shady going

22:34

on . They probably have an idea who

22:36

that person is .

22:37

Well , that's interesting , though you surprised

22:40

me with that . So if I replaced a , I have a tankless

22:42

water heater . Even a tankless water

22:44

heater would need to be permitted if they put a new one

22:46

, or is it just the big old hot water

22:48

heater ?

22:49

No , any water heater . Any

22:51

water heater replacement definitely has to be permitted

22:53

.

22:54

Interesting . That's good to know . I bet a lot of people

22:56

never would even think to ask that .

22:59

No , there's a lot of misconceptions

23:02

, right . Just because you pull

23:04

a permit for a water heater does not mean that inspector

23:06

is going to come into your house and say , oh , you got all

23:08

these other things wrong . That's not

23:11

the case . And then you're in Tampa , so in

23:13

Tampa your

23:15

electric water it's probably electric tankless

23:17

, right , I

23:20

think ?

23:20

it's . I think it runs on natural gas but

23:22

you know what this is my stupidity ? I don't know .

23:25

Yeah , in Florida there's gas isn't very

23:27

common , right , and you

23:29

know not to get too technical , but there's what we call

23:31

temperature rise , right ? So in the northern states

23:33

I'm up in Michigan Our groundwater

23:36

is about 45 degrees and we have to heat

23:38

it up to about 120 degrees to

23:40

get the hot water , so

23:44

that's an 80 degree temperature rise . So on a tankless your gallons per

23:46

minute drop . Well , in Florida your groundwater

23:48

is about 65 , 70 degrees , so

23:51

that gap is much smaller . The

23:54

delta you know the change in temperature , so

23:56

you can get away with electricity a lot more

23:59

. Electricity just doesn't work in

24:01

the northern states . But that's

24:03

a good . You know , you bring up a good point . You

24:07

don't know if you have a gas or electric water

24:09

heater , right . So

24:11

when you're calling for a plumber , you know

24:14

they start asking questions . It's going

24:16

to be harder for you to be able to figure out

24:18

. And that's where I think we really try to educate

24:20

homeowners , right . Because you

24:23

know if you go on vacation or you go on a cruise

24:25

and you're gone for a couple weeks , there

24:27

are things that you can do to prevent really

24:30

bad things from happening . But it also

24:32

will help you when you get a plumber that might not

24:34

know what they're talking about , or trying to oversell

24:37

you , or maybe

24:39

just something's not

24:41

right . It'll be

24:43

easier for a homeowner to understand hey

24:46

, wait , that doesn't seem right and start

24:48

asking questions and ultimately say , well , maybe

24:50

I'll get another opinion .

24:52

Yeah , I mean , I'm the first to admit . Although I do a podcast

24:54

called homeowners , be aware , I like to let the

24:57

experts you know tell

24:59

me what certain things you know . I

25:01

just found out recently our generator needed

25:04

oil if it ran for more than a couple

25:06

of days . They never told me that

25:08

. So there's so many things homeowners don't know

25:10

, and if you don't take the time to

25:12

find out that knowledge on your own , you don't find

25:14

out until it's an emergency and then

25:16

you need it . If my hot tankless water heater

25:18

broke today , I would not know the answer . Now my

25:20

guess is that it runs on natural gas . But

25:23

you're absolutely right , I have no idea

25:26

.

25:26

Well , and then , based on you telling me you have a generator

25:29

, now I'm pretty confident it's on

25:31

natural gas , right ?

25:33

Yeah , so there's certain things we assume , but there's still

25:35

so many things we don't know as homeowners . Exactly right

25:37

, and you're very trustworthy .

25:38

Obviously You're calling in an expert and you're

25:40

assuming that he's an expert , or she's an expert

25:42

and they might be fantastic

25:45

at snaking grains or , you

25:47

know , doing water filtration again

25:49

, but they might have never worked on a

25:51

tankless water heater doing

25:54

water filtration again , but they might have never worked

25:56

on a tankless water heater .

26:00

Yeah , I'll tell you , when we went to get a generator , the spread of price was $20,000

26:02

from one company to another . That's a dramatic difference . So

26:04

somebody was trying to rip us off and

26:08

that's always a disappointment . So although I rely on other

26:10

people , I don't trust very many people . How

26:13

many estimates should I get on a job ? Normally

26:15

Depends on the job .

26:17

It depends on the how you like that person who's

26:19

coming to sell you the job . You know , truly

26:22

here's . You know

26:24

, let's take your tankless water heater for

26:26

an example . You know , if that stops working

26:28

and you call a plumber that

26:31

doesn't know that manufacturer of water heater

26:33

that you have installed , instead of

26:35

repairing it , they're going to give you a price

26:37

to replace it . And that

26:39

could be a matter of spending a couple

26:41

hundred bucks versus a few thousand dollars

26:43

. Right , and again

26:46

, going back to that , you know I would

26:49

highly recommend you , a homeowner

26:51

, going to the manufacturer's website

26:53

. So if you've got a water heater and let's say your tankless

26:56

is a Renai or a Navion or

26:58

a Bosch , go to the manufacturer

27:00

and then just do enough browsing

27:04

so you feel a little bit more comfortable and confident

27:06

in what you're talking about . Then when

27:08

that person comes out to give you a price or

27:10

a bid , again go . That

27:14

number should correlate with

27:16

what they're doing , and if

27:19

it doesn't make sense to you , then your

27:22

intuition needs to kick in and be like something's

27:24

not right here . You know it doesn't make sense

27:26

, it's not rocket

27:28

science . I promise you guys this . I mean

27:31

plumbing . Is you got clean water

27:33

coming in ? You got dirty water coming out

27:35

and then you've got some components in the

27:37

middle that heat it up and , you know

27:39

, maybe filter it a little bit more , but

27:41

outside of that there's

27:44

really not much more . So if someone's trying to oversell

27:46

you or the proposal is very

27:48

limited or not written , you know , I like

27:50

to say if it's not written , it's not real . And

27:53

I also like to see options Right , like to see

27:55

options right . So when you're looking at proposals

27:57

or how many bids to get you

28:07

know I wouldn't spend a ton of time , because it's not fair to the contractor and it's not

28:09

fair to yourself either . That's why I like to say be open and honest

28:12

. You know what is your budget . I would rather come

28:14

in and help you

28:16

get the project done within your budget

28:18

versus you trying to make

28:20

me guess where I need to be to get the work

28:22

. You know , if you like them

28:25

and trust them , you can work with them , because

28:27

they're going to be coming in and out of your house .

28:29

Yeah , that's always the game . Who says the price

28:31

first ? Now I asked you to come

28:33

up with something funny or interesting about yourself , and I thought

28:36

it was really interesting that you're deathly

28:38

afraid of heights and small spaces . Now I can

28:40

see how you could avoid heights as a plumber , but

28:42

I don't know how you could avoid small spaces .

28:44

How challenging is that , Ben it's

28:46

tunnel vision , right , don't look around you

28:48

and just stay focused , right . It's

28:51

a funny , quick , funny story . After college

28:53

I knew I was in nursing school and

28:56

then I ended in business . But I'm like this

28:59

isn't for me . And back then trading spaces

29:01

was coming around and on TV

29:03

. So I'm like , oh , the , the trades is something

29:05

you know , or a home improvement . I think I'd be interested

29:07

. Well , my first go at it

29:09

was a roofing apprenticeship and

29:11

I showed up there the first day . I

29:13

I I didn't get on the roof , george . I

29:16

looked up there . I'm like , yeah , there's no way I'm

29:18

getting on this roof . So I

29:21

just happened to fall into plumbing and

29:24

you know plumbers go very deep into the ground and I'm like I have

29:27

no fear of going , you know , 35

29:29

feet underground to get to the sewers

29:31

and drains , but to this day

29:33

you get me up higher than six

29:35

feet . I'm shaking , I just do not feel

29:37

comfortable and of course you have to overcome that

29:40

because we have to get on roofs . But I

29:43

did my apprenticeship in downtown detroit back

29:45

before detroit really was making its um

29:48

revitalization and

29:50

I would go into this crawl space and it

29:52

was underneath a gymnasium floor in a high

29:54

school and it was a friday afternoon , probably around

29:56

four o'clock , and there was all kinds

29:58

of bad stuff down there you know the bugs and

30:00

all that and it was dark . So I'm just walked crawling

30:03

through and I'm down there working

30:05

. About an hour goes by and

30:07

I hear these steps and

30:09

I'm like what in the world is going on ? I

30:12

turn around , it's this you know

30:14

older gentleman and he's like

30:16

what are you doing down here ? I'm like I'm fixing . He's like what are you doing

30:18

down here ? I'm like I'm fixing the steam line and what are you doing

30:20

down here ? He's like well , I'm the inspector , I was

30:22

just calling to see what you guys were doing and

30:25

like you crawled all the way back here on a

30:27

Friday afternoon . It

30:29

was pretty crazy . But yeah , it's

30:32

, it's it's

30:34

. It's interesting because I've been in some of the coolest

30:36

places . I've

30:42

been in some of the coolest places . I've been in the attic of a cathedral Blessed

30:44

Sacrament Cathedral in Detroit and churches . Yesterday I was actually in Boston . I

30:46

was on the 40th floor of the Ritz-Carlton , overlooking

30:49

Charles River and Harvard and

30:51

Cambridge , I mean really cool , but

31:00

yeah , there's times where I don't know how I do what I do because you just have to suck it up and get it done .

31:01

It's there's times where I I don't know how I do what I do , Cause you just have to suck it up and get it done

31:03

, Right . Yeah , and I know a lot of people that make jokes about Detroit , but I lived there for three years

31:05

and thought it was great . I mean , there's the people that are

31:07

great . It's . It's there's parts

31:09

of the city , but there are a lot

31:11

of great parts .

31:23

I love it and it is come a long ways . I don't know when you lived here , but it's pretty neat to see

31:25

a lot of young people moving down there and the buildings are cool All of our sports stadiums .

31:27

Detroit's got a great restaurant scene and nightlife . It's really cool place , yep . The only complaint

31:29

I have is the weather too damn cold in the winter

31:31

and I do not like cold weather . We're at

31:33

19 degrees right now . Yeah , that's

31:35

crazy . I mean . I remember days . I

31:38

was a weatherman there and so my job

31:40

was to be outside when the weather was bad

31:42

. Telling you not to go outside , I

31:45

was miserable .

31:47

Well , I get to come to Tampa . My daughter

31:49

was accepted to the University of South Florida , so

31:52

we're going to be touring there Friday Fantastic

31:54

.

31:55

Yeah , my daughter went there and it's a great

31:57

school Good Fantastic . Yeah , my daughter went there and

31:59

it's a great school Good deal . Yeah , she's really going to love it here

32:01

. It's a great place to live . So

32:03

final piece of advice for people if

32:07

you have a problem and you need to

32:09

call a plumber , give

32:11

me your best advice .

32:14

I know we've talked about it , but let's wrap it up with that , I would . Brand

32:16

image does mean a lot . You know . I think plumbers

32:19

a lot like Dennis , when you find a plumber , usually

32:21

you're going to keep that plumber . So ask around

32:24

. Obviously your

32:26

own network is probably the best place

32:28

to start and read reviews . And again

32:31

, I like the three

32:33

. You know , maybe not so much the two , depending

32:35

on what it is , but the three and four stars

32:37

. I put a little bit more weight in

32:39

those . And be careful too , because reviews

32:42

, people are all

32:44

kinds of sorts of different

32:46

right , so what might be important

32:48

to you might not be

32:50

quite the same . So even

32:53

when you're on that phone call , I would ask those questions

32:55

what type of products do

32:57

you install ? What manufacturers do you work with

32:59

? Where do you buy your parts ? I

33:02

would try to stay away from the plumbers that go to the Home

33:04

Depot and Lowe's all the time . The ones

33:06

that say they actually work in the plumbing

33:09

industry are going to be the experts . The

33:12

ones that go to Home Depot buy all their parts

33:14

. I promise you those aren't

33:16

what your expert plumbers

33:18

. They're not going to Home Depot and

33:20

Lowe's to buy their product

33:22

.

33:22

Okay , last question , and I have to ask this because I see it

33:24

all the time when we're walking our dogs in the neighborhood

33:26

, we see trades that are out at the street

33:29

. The guys are all smoking and

33:31

then they go in to do their job

33:33

. And I'm thinking , when somebody walks

33:35

into my house as a non-smoker and they've

33:37

been smoking out by the curb , that drives me

33:39

crazy . What do you , what do you guys do about that ?

33:42

That's well , that's

33:44

the difference between a new construction plumber and

33:46

a service plumber . Quite honestly , you

33:49

know your service plumbers . They're

33:52

not going to probably be standing out in

33:54

the street smoking , okay . So again

33:58

, you can't just use the word plumber and expect

34:00

that you're going to get a plumber . That's

34:02

where you really got treated is

34:05

like an interview . You know what are the

34:07

experts in . If you're putting an addition

34:09

on your house , then yeah , you're

34:11

going to get the plumbers that are probably smoking and

34:13

they're going to be great at it , but it's

34:15

not the same as what I I

34:18

like to use the word retail . Most

34:20

homeowners , if they're coming to your house , you're looking for

34:22

a retail plumber , a plumber that

34:25

is going to come in , educate you , give

34:27

you options and know what

34:29

products put in your home . If you're building

34:31

a new house , you do not want

34:33

a retail plumber , you want a construction

34:36

plumber , and those are probably the plumbers are

34:38

going to be smoking and standing out at the trucks and

34:40

you know they're not going to have the wrap trucks

34:42

or the logos . But you also don't want to pay

34:44

retail rates to do that type of plumbing

34:46

work . So just know that there's

34:48

a difference and you probably got . I'll

34:51

try to sum this up in three ways You've

34:53

got your drain cleaners , you've

34:55

got your retail plumbers that do service

34:57

work in finished plumbing and then

34:59

you've got your construction plumbers . Know

35:04

that there's those three differences and

35:06

then ask those questions because that'll

35:08

help you understand the pricing and

35:10

what you're going to get when you call one .

35:12

Now , what about the guy you see advertising on

35:14

TV or on the billboards , or the ones that are

35:16

spending a lot of money marketing ? Do

35:18

they tend to cost more ?

35:21

Absolutely Right Cost of doing business . Now

35:23

, with that being said , they also have

35:25

a little bit more

35:27

to

35:29

lose , right , because they're named out there

35:31

, you know who they are , and so you're going

35:33

to get a better job . They're going to be a little bit more

35:36

money . Hopefully , they're still fair , right

35:39

. Those are great ones to have

35:41

in your phone , though , because when you need

35:43

them at nights and weekends , that's

35:45

who's going to answer their phone .

35:47

Yeah , that's when things always seem to break on a Saturday

35:50

or late at night when it's like , okay , that's going to cost

35:52

me more .

35:53

Oh and

35:55

look , we want people to try

35:57

to do things on their own that they can , and we'll even say

35:59

hey , look , this is something that you can do if you

36:01

want to watch . Just don't do it on a Sunday

36:03

morning .

36:05

And then is DIY risky . I know I keep throwing questions

36:07

at you , but I know that changed a lot of

36:09

things where people try things that maybe they shouldn't

36:12

. I don't think people should mess around with electrical

36:14

unless they know what they're doing , but plumbing can be

36:16

a little safer unless you strip

36:18

something when you're taking it off or you do

36:21

something .

36:27

Think ahead , youtube is awesome . I mean YouTube has changed the way we do plumbing . I mean you can ? I like

36:29

to tell people read instructions . The only difference

36:31

with plumbers reading instructions , we can actually follow

36:33

them Right , so we understand

36:36

what they're saying . But , you

36:38

know if you're going to do something , um

36:40

, think three , four or five steps

36:42

ahead , you know . Do you have your towels

36:44

ready ? Do you have your buckets ready ? Do you know where

36:47

to shut the water off or the gas off If you're

36:49

going to ? If you're going to , you know , try to replace

36:51

that toilet on your own . Know where to shut the

36:53

water off first , so in case something

36:55

does go haywire , you have that

36:57

. Maybe you know who your plumber

37:00

is , or you've already got the ? Hey , I'm going to give

37:02

this a shot , but I'm going

37:04

to have that plumber on speed

37:06

dial , just in case . You

37:09

can really do a lot nowadays , george

37:11

. I think the manufacturers have done a fantastic

37:14

job with putting content out there to

37:16

help people do it on their own . Quite

37:19

honestly , a lot of the products aren't that

37:21

hard to install , unless you're getting into the tankless

37:24

and the bidet seats and

37:26

all of that . Really

37:29

, I'm telling you , if there's anything , there's a lot more out

37:31

there that people know . That

37:33

would really make your life a lot nicer . You

37:36

know as far as bidet seats and tankless water

37:38

heaters and kudos to you for having that but

37:42

yeah , just know where your water shutoffs are

37:44

. Try to understand

37:46

what could go wrong . So that way you're

37:48

a little bit prepared for it . If it does . You

37:52

know , I think my biggest advice is know

37:54

your plumbing . You know , go underneath your sinks , turn

37:57

the valves on and off . You

37:59

know the old saying if it's not broke

38:02

, don't fix it . That can lead to a lot more

38:04

problems than going there . And actually

38:06

, you know turning the water on and off

38:08

periodically and testing things

38:10

if you don't use it . You know , if you got

38:12

that big jacuzzi tub and you

38:14

don't use it ever , you know , run the water there

38:17

every every month . Um , and take

38:19

tours of your home and go in the basements

38:21

once in a while . Uh , test

38:23

it all out , cause the more you do that , the longer that

38:25

stuff's going to last .

38:27

Yeah , that's great advice . And then you know it's like with a pool

38:29

heater you don't heat your pool for six months . You'd

38:31

go to use it and it's not working . Those

38:34

things can't just sit around and not get used .

38:36

No , they freeze up . You know

38:38

, they actually literally lock

38:40

up , so especially in Detroit . Yeah

38:43

, exactly right .

38:45

Yeah , hey

38:47

, matt , thank you so much for coming on today . Great

38:49

advice People can reach

38:51

you . You're going to give me , you gave me some social networking

38:53

links that people can get in touch with you .

38:56

Absolutely Yep and I appreciate the invite

38:58

.

39:03

And this is really cool . If you have a story about your house , good or bad , I'd like to hear from you . There's

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a contact form in the show notes . Fill it out and send it my way and you might

39:07

be a guest on an upcoming episode

39:09

. Also , check out the link in the show

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notes to the trailer for my new

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documentary film , built to Last Buyer

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Beware , that's coming out this summer

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. Thanks for taking the time to listen today

39:20

. I'll see you next time .