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Unlimited slows. The

1:04

point of an actor is to disappear

1:06

into a role. A great

1:08

performance by a famous actor is like

1:11

a magic eye illusion. You

1:13

look one way and it's Meryl Streep. You

1:16

squint a different way and you can barely

1:18

see Meryl at all. The

1:21

point of a movie star is to

1:23

never disappear. You see them

1:25

on the sides of buses. Movie

1:28

stars are supposed to be products. People

1:30

who you can never take your eyes off of.

1:33

Who you always want to spend more time with.

1:36

Sometimes actors can be movie stars

1:39

and movie stars actors. And

1:41

that's a neat trick. But often

1:44

you are one or the other. There

1:48

are sub-genres of movie stars also.

1:51

There are action movie stars. Bruce Willis,

1:53

Arnold Schwarzenegger. Who sure can be in

1:55

other movies but that's what they're known

1:57

for. Action movies. There

2:01

are comedy movie stars, Melissa

2:03

McCarthy, Leslie Jones. And

2:06

there are, of course, rom-com

2:08

stars. Sometimes they

2:10

even come in pairs. Tom

2:12

Hanks, Meg Ryan. Katherine Hepburn,

2:14

Spencer Tracy. Julia Roberts, Richard

2:17

Gere. When

2:19

casting How to Lose a Guy in

2:21

10 Days, the studios wanted two stars.

2:24

They weren't looking for actors to disappear

2:26

into the roles. They wanted people on

2:28

the poster who you would walk by

2:30

and say, oh, I like her. Gwyneth

2:35

Paltrow was attached to the project

2:37

early on, but scheduling happened. Then

2:40

a newly nominated for Best Supporting

2:42

Actress, Kate Hudson, signed on for

2:44

the movie. They needed

2:47

to find the perfect guy. A

2:50

guy with a big name who

2:52

wouldn't mind demeaning himself by being

2:54

in a rom-com and

2:56

who had great plummistry with Kate

2:58

Hudson. And that's

3:00

how we got our Texas boy in New York

3:03

City with a weird backstory,

3:05

Matthew McConaughey. Today

3:08

we are gonna be discussing stardom and

3:10

how it all plays out in rom-coms

3:13

with Russell Mase. You've

3:15

heard Russ's name in the credits before. He's

3:17

been a huge help to us this

3:19

entire season. Russell

3:22

is a professor in the School of

3:24

Journalism and Mass Media at the University

3:26

of Idaho. His work

3:28

focuses on celebrity culture, popular

3:31

cinema, masculinity studies, and disability

3:33

studies. He is the

3:35

author of several books on media

3:38

culture, including White Terror, the horror

3:40

film from Obama to team, Rebellious

3:45

Bodies, stardom citizenship, and

3:47

the New Body Politics, and

3:50

John Wayne's World, Transnational Masculinity

3:53

in the 50s. I'm

3:56

Vanessa Zoltan, and this is Hot n'

3:58

Bathered. Hi,

4:13

Russ. Thanks so much for talking to me

4:15

today. I am so excited to talk about this.

4:19

We have loved talking to you so much

4:21

that we just decided that you were a

4:23

consulting producer on this project. That is

4:26

how helpful you are. You are in our

4:28

credits. So thank you for all of

4:30

your help. And also, I'm so glad

4:32

that we actually are going to get to hear you on mic today.

4:34

Yeah, I'm really excited to talk about this. And

4:36

I've been so happy to help out and love

4:38

talking about movies and rom coms have a special

4:41

place in my heart. Okay, so

4:43

first, you write a lot

4:45

about stardom. And rom

4:47

coms, I think, are one of

4:49

the genres that most uses

4:51

stardom to great effect. And so I'm

4:53

wondering if you could just tell us

4:55

what you mean when you use that

4:58

term. What is a star? Yeah,

5:00

so a star is actually kind of a

5:02

really complicated term when we think about like

5:04

what that means, because it's

5:06

a constellation of different ideas we have.

5:08

When we think of stars, we think

5:10

about people, right? We think, Oh, okay,

5:12

I know who Will Smith is, I

5:14

know who Zendaya is, right? But really,

5:17

stars are these complicated media personas. They're

5:19

people that we feel like we know,

5:21

but we don't actually know that we

5:23

know a lot about their personal lives

5:25

and like who they're dating and how

5:27

many kids they have and where they

5:29

went to eat last night. But we don't

5:31

have a personal connection with them. And so

5:33

stars are these kind of things

5:36

that look like people but aren't actually

5:38

people, their ideas, their discourses, we sometimes

5:40

call them the text or talk about

5:42

the star text that they embody. And

5:45

so they work really, really well for

5:47

a number of purposes in our entertainment

5:50

media, because one, they're great

5:52

at marketing. That's primarily the reason why

5:54

stars exist is to get us to

5:56

buy stuff typically to buy movies, we

5:58

go see movies on the basis of performance.

6:00

performances and who's in it and do we like them, how

6:02

do we feel about them. But they're

6:04

also really great at helping us

6:06

process cultural ideas, ideas around what

6:08

it means to be a person, what it means

6:10

to be a man, what it means to be

6:12

a woman, what it means to be queer, what

6:15

it means to exist in this complicated world that

6:17

we live in. And so when

6:19

I say star, I mean, yeah, a

6:21

performer who resonates with our culture in

6:23

a particular way that helps us think

6:25

about our own identities. Yeah,

6:29

I have studied English, not film. And

6:31

one of the only literary theorists that

6:33

I think I at least a little

6:35

bit understood was Sussor, who talks about

6:38

like certain words as not just words

6:40

that convey meaning, but that are symbols.

6:43

And so like you say war and it

6:45

means one thing, but right, like it also

6:47

is a semiotic system for something

6:50

so much bigger. And I feel like that's what you're saying

6:52

about stars, right? Yeah, that's a great way

6:54

of thinking about stars. And I think that's

6:56

actually fundamental to the work of stars, right,

6:58

is that we say Matthew McConaughey or

7:00

Kate Hudson, who we'll talk about in a minute,

7:02

and we think we know what it means. We

7:04

can see them in our head. We kind of

7:06

have a sense of like who they are as

7:08

people, but it's actually opening up this whole world

7:10

of discourses about who were they dating in 1999?

7:14

Who were they married to now? You know, what

7:16

kind of awards have they won thinking about their

7:18

performances? But this also

7:21

opens up all these messy ideas

7:23

around ideology and culture. So one

7:25

of the great theorists of stardom

7:27

is a scholar named Richard Dyer.

7:29

And kind of the example that I use

7:31

when I talk to people about this, talk

7:33

to students about this is Marilyn Monroe as

7:36

the classic kind of iconic star who resonated

7:38

so broadly in the 1950s

7:40

and still today, because she was

7:42

able to take these contradictions around

7:44

femininity, that women should be at

7:46

once innocent and pure and naive

7:48

and a little bimboish, but

7:50

also very sexually experienced and have the

7:53

ability to express their own sexual desires.

7:55

And that's these classic double binds in

7:57

Western culture that we put on. women,

8:00

but we don't think about that double

8:02

bind when we think about Marilyn Monroe.

8:04

We just see those contradictions smoothed over

8:07

and it's just Monroe, right? And that's

8:09

why she resonates, why she's iconic, because

8:11

she's able to take those contradictions and

8:13

make them seem like they're not contradictions,

8:15

make us feel like, oh, that's just

8:17

what it is to be a woman.

8:21

Can you tell me a little

8:23

bit about the history of the star system

8:26

in Hollywood? Because I mean, I'm

8:28

definitely getting a sense, right? It's not by

8:30

accident. They're curated. And so

8:32

who was the first star? Yeah.

8:35

So the person that we talk

8:37

about as the first star is a

8:39

great story. So we'll take you back

8:42

in time to about 1909. The film

8:44

industry is still fledgling. None of the

8:46

major studios as we think of them

8:48

today are really what they are at

8:51

this moment. In fact, the radio system

8:53

at the time is really being dominated

8:55

by Thomas Edison, who runs this cabal

8:57

of patent holders who hold the patents

9:00

on the camera systems. And

9:02

he's very, very strict about enforcing those patents

9:04

to the point that a lot of film

9:07

historians, we tell these kind of anecdotes about

9:09

Edison sending goons around to like rough up

9:11

other people's camera crews because they weren't part

9:13

of the patent cabal. To be clear, so

9:15

there's like an Edison mafia. Absolutely.

9:18

Okay. Thomas Edison is a lot of things in

9:21

the history of film. He's a great innovator, but

9:23

also kind of the bad guy. So

9:26

he's very much trying to enforce this cabal.

9:28

His company is called Biograph. And

9:30

one of their top performers was

9:32

this woman named Florence Lawrence. But

9:35

nobody knew her name, because at the time,

9:37

they didn't put credits at the end of

9:39

films, they didn't say who the performers names

9:41

was, partly because many of the performers didn't

9:43

want to be associated with this fledgling film

9:45

industry, right? It was seen as not a

9:47

respectable career path. But the fans

9:49

wanted to know who these people were. And

9:52

so Florence Lawrence became famous first, just

9:54

as the Biograph girl, early fan magazine

9:56

started writing about the Biograph girl and

9:58

she's the Biograph girl. Biograph Girl has a new

10:00

film coming up. But then as her

10:03

contract was starting to expire with Biograph, she started

10:05

searching out for other companies that she could work

10:07

with. Biograph got wind of this and fired her.

10:09

This was a period in which the stars didn't

10:11

really have a lot of power in the industry.

10:14

So they were like, hey, no, I don't care

10:16

how famous you are, you're done. So

10:18

she starts looking for other work, and

10:20

she connects up with one of the

10:22

independent companies. So these are

10:25

the companies that are outside of Edison's cabal. They're

10:27

small, they're fledgling, they're trying to grow,

10:29

and they're trying to challenge the way

10:31

that films get made and trying to

10:33

challenge that business model. And so one

10:35

of these companies called Imp, the independent

10:37

motion picture company, they sign on Florence

10:39

Lawrence to work for Imp. This

10:42

was run by Carl LaMail, who

10:44

was an early film pioneer, and he

10:46

was also a great promoter of film.

10:49

And so he knew that signing Florence Lawrence

10:51

was just the start he needed to promote

10:53

that he had this person. And

10:55

so what he did was he planted

10:57

fake news stories across New York City

10:59

papers, claiming that the Biograph Girl was

11:02

killed by a streetcar in an accident

11:04

on the streets of New York City.

11:07

And so for a day, the papers run the story,

11:09

oh, this Biograph Girl, she's dead. And then he comes

11:11

out the next day and says, the rumors

11:13

are false. Those are just false rumors

11:15

planted by my rivals. The Biograph Girl

11:17

is alive. She's now signed with Imp,

11:20

and her name is Florence Lawrence. And

11:22

so this is the first time that we've named

11:25

a star. She gets a big

11:27

contract with Imp, and he recognizes the marketing

11:29

potential, that it's not just the movies that

11:31

people are going to see. They're going to

11:33

see the performers. They're going to see those

11:35

stars. And so Carl LaMail

11:37

and his Imp company expands greatly. They

11:39

eventually move to Southern California because it's

11:41

far away from Edison and has better

11:44

weather and more topography. And as his

11:46

company grows, he realizes he needs to

11:48

give it a better, bigger name, a

11:50

more expansive name. He's

11:52

interested in universal pictures. And so that's

11:54

the origin story of how stars in

11:56

the studios come together. So,

11:58

I mean, like what I know about. the film industry

12:01

can basically fit in my thumbnail, but

12:03

this is exciting to know because I

12:05

feel like we're going to

12:07

be on an upward trajectory where stars

12:09

have more and more power, right? Stars

12:11

are going to create United Artists with

12:13

Mary Pickford and Charlie Chaplin, and then

12:15

stars again are going to create First

12:17

Artists with Barbara Streisand and Sidney Portier,

12:20

and like now every star has their

12:22

own production company. And so it seems

12:24

as though if we think about film

12:26

history, it started

12:28

as like stars as assets that

12:30

were owned and then stars realizing,

12:33

no, we are our own assets,

12:35

and that means that like we

12:37

should own our own images. Yeah,

12:40

absolutely. So as the studio system grows in the

12:42

20s, 30s and 40s, stars were absolutely

12:45

seen as yeah, the assets is a good

12:47

way of putting it. They were very, very

12:49

tight contracts with the studios, typically for seven

12:51

years in which they had no autonomy and

12:53

control. And some stars tried to buck that

12:56

they would sue the studios occasionally and often

12:58

would lose or create their own

13:00

production companies to create some autonomy. As

13:02

the studio system starts to wane in the

13:05

late 40s and 50s and just doesn't have

13:07

the power it does anymore, yeah, then stars

13:09

start branching off, start creating their own

13:11

production companies so that they can exercise

13:14

that sense of autonomy over

13:16

which projects they pick. And actually, the industry

13:18

then becomes very much organized around talent agencies

13:20

more than studios, which big talent agency are

13:22

you signed with? Who's helping you craft your

13:24

persona and craft your career as you move

13:26

forward? And that gives the stars a little

13:29

bit more autonomy. But they still serve the

13:31

same essential role, which is that the studios

13:33

need the stars to promote their

13:35

films. And the stars need the studios to pay

13:37

their bills and get those jobs. Yeah, we see

13:39

this trajectory where the stars get more and more

13:42

freedom to try to craft their roles. But it's

13:44

still in kind of, you know, this

13:46

in this relationship with the studios and what the

13:48

studios want and need. Yeah, I often think

13:50

of something that I learned at some point, which

13:52

is that when you sign a

13:55

contract to work on a movie as

13:57

an actor, part of your job is to act in

13:59

that movie. But just as much a

14:01

part of your contract is the promotions

14:03

after the movie and that that is

14:05

actually part of the job of being an

14:07

actor is being a promoter. You know,

14:09

you think of someone as an actor as

14:12

like their time on stage or their time

14:14

on the set that actually part of the

14:16

job description of actor is this other part

14:18

which is performing stardom. Absolutely.

14:20

And sometimes the promotional aspect of being

14:22

a star takes up more time and

14:24

space and energy than the actual shoot

14:26

itself. And some stars as they get

14:28

more power can leverage that there's often

14:30

this tension. Some stars are very vocal

14:32

about how much they don't like the

14:34

promotion part of it. They just see

14:36

their job as acting and performing. But

14:39

especially rising stars know that that's absolutely part

14:41

of playing that game and getting that next

14:43

role is being a good team player on

14:45

the promotion side of things. Right.

14:49

And this makes total sense, right?

14:51

You've written about the relationship between

14:53

stardom and neoliberal citizenship. Can

14:55

you tell me a little bit about that? I feel like

14:57

we're we're circling on that. Yeah. So

15:00

that was a book that I wrote called

15:02

rebellious bodies, where I was very interested in

15:04

particularly our contemporary moment of stardom really thinking

15:06

about the mid 2000s onward,

15:09

where stars historically we've talked

15:11

about as being very normative in terms of

15:14

identity, that there are strict boundaries on who

15:16

we imagine as a star, particularly when it

15:18

was very tightly controlled by the studio system.

15:20

And even as stars gain more power, if

15:23

you were a woman and a star, you

15:25

had to look a particular way, you had

15:27

to act a particular way. If you're a

15:29

woman of color star, those parameters were so

15:32

narrow in terms of what was allowed for

15:34

your identity. And the same thing for men

15:36

as well, right, that there was body standards,

15:38

there was more variety and diversity in

15:41

how you could be a male star than

15:43

a female star. But there was all these

15:45

parameters on that. But we started seeing particularly

15:47

as the culture is shifted post civil rights

15:49

movement, more and more emphasis on diversity and

15:52

stardom and thinking about how can we make

15:54

room for stars who have different kinds of

15:56

bodies who inhabit different types of personas, and

15:58

then how that helps us think about

16:00

identity, who really belongs. So when I

16:03

say, when I talk about citizenship, I

16:05

think citizenship in the cultural sense, right?

16:07

Not who has rights necessarily, but who

16:09

culturally belongs, who is seen as being

16:11

part of kind of the mainstream central

16:13

part of our culture, which is of

16:15

course then tied to rights, especially when

16:17

you think about changes in rights for

16:19

the LGBTQ community. So I'm really

16:22

interested in that idea of how stars embody

16:24

that idea of like what it means to

16:26

be a part of the mainstream culture. And

16:28

that's constantly shifting and changing in neoliberal capitalism,

16:31

which is seeking to expand its markets and

16:33

have more people be brought into this idea

16:35

of the mainstream, but is also then brushing

16:38

up against our cultural boundaries of

16:40

what appropriate identity should be. Right.

16:44

Okay, let's talk about

16:47

our stars. First of

16:49

all, Matthew McConaughey. You have

16:52

things to say about a moment in time

16:55

that could be called the McConnathons. Can

16:57

you please tell me about Matthew McConaughey and

16:59

the McConnathons? So How to

17:01

Lose a Guy in 10 Days comes out

17:03

in about 2003. And it's near the early end of

17:06

this kind of

17:08

period of time and McConaughey's body of work

17:10

that is very much dominated by rom coms.

17:13

He doesn't do exclusively rom coms. There's a

17:15

few other films in there. But that's how

17:17

he really cements his status as a leading

17:19

man. Much of his work in the 90s,

17:21

he's part of an ensemble cast where there's

17:23

other stars that are helped carrying the promotional

17:26

work of the film. He, like a

17:28

lot of stars who do rom com work,

17:30

starts getting typecast through those different roles and

17:32

starts realizing this is what's coming his way,

17:34

which, you know, is not always bad for

17:37

many actors we have talked about is a

17:39

bad thing, but it also helps make them

17:41

very rich and very successful in their careers.

17:44

And so starting around 2009 2010, he actually

17:46

takes a little bit of a break

17:48

and stops taking a lot of roles, because

17:50

he's worried about this typecasting he wants to

17:53

be a serious actor, many of his early

17:55

roles in the 90s are very serious type

17:57

performances. Time to kill. Time to kill.

18:00

Absolutely contact with Jodie Foster.

18:02

Right. Where I remember someone famously

18:04

said he plays the girl in that movie. Absolutely.

18:06

He's the sensitive person trying to get

18:09

Jodie Foster to like open up emotionally,

18:11

right? But yeah, so he wants

18:13

to be serious. And so yeah, it's around that

18:15

time. Mud is 2012, but he

18:17

does a Bernie, that dark comedy with Ritigling

18:20

players. I love Bernie. Yeah, that's 2011. And

18:23

Magic Mike is also 2012, which

18:25

is a little bit of like a bridge kind

18:27

of a film. It's still People's

18:30

Sexiest Man Alive, Matthew McConaughey,

18:32

but in a more serious

18:34

like package around that, right?

18:36

And then Mud solidifies this, right? And I

18:38

think part of this is also, he's well

18:41

known as a Southern actor, right? He's got

18:43

that very great sexy kind

18:45

of like Texas-y draw, but

18:47

not too Texas-y. That's

18:50

very specific to him. And so

18:52

he takes on a lot of

18:54

roles like Mud, Dallas Buyers Club,

18:56

obviously True Detective and others that

18:58

really play into this kind of

19:00

gritty, Southern-y Gothic moment that allows

19:02

him to say, okay, I'm

19:04

not a rom-com actor anymore. I'm Matthew McConaughey,

19:06

I'm a serious actor. And yes, we

19:08

call it the McConussons as he's reinvented

19:10

his career. And has

19:13

he gone back and done a rom-com since?

19:15

Or once you, McConussons, can you

19:17

not go back? You

19:20

can go back. I'm trying to think of

19:22

other performance. But you don't want to. You

19:25

don't want to. And you have to establish

19:27

yourself pretty solidly to be

19:29

able to go back. Think about

19:31

Tom Hanks took a kind of

19:33

similar trajectory in the 90s

19:35

where he was like, okay, I'm a comedic

19:38

actor, but I am going

19:40

to be a serious actor. And then he wins back-to-back

19:42

Oscars in the early 90s. And he's

19:44

Tom Hanks, he's beloved, he's an icon. He

19:46

gets to a point in his career where

19:48

he can do a lot of stuff and he

19:50

can be like, yeah, I'll do, I'll team

19:52

up with Meg Ryan again and do You've Got Mail. That's

19:55

okay, I'm solid in my Tom Hanksiness that

19:58

I can do that. McConaughey,

20:00

I don't think I'd have

20:02

to look at his his over but I don't

20:04

think he's really gone back that direction Partly

20:07

because the the place he pivoted to was

20:09

a lot darker a lot grittier

20:12

Than rom-coms typically allow and so

20:14

his persona his text that he's

20:16

created since you know The round

20:18

2010 or so doesn't really vibe

20:20

with rom-coms anymore, right? It

20:22

is so funny the way that there's

20:25

cultural cache around these

20:27

dramas, right? Like mud

20:30

is a better movie than

20:33

how to lose a guy in 10 days But like I

20:35

mean I can even think just Tom

20:38

Cruise everybody was really excited when he did

20:40

collateral people were a lot less excited when

20:42

he did Jerry McGuire And I

20:44

feel like at the Oscars every year. There's this conversation

20:46

of like why not value movies

20:49

people actually like to see Like

20:51

if part of what you want to be as an

20:53

actor is famous and a celebrity Not

20:56

a lot of people saw mud But a

20:58

lot of people saw the wedding planner and

21:00

so why is an actor you like I

21:03

want to be in mud that Two

21:05

two hundred thousand people are gonna see instead of

21:07

the wedding planner that like 200 million people are

21:09

gonna see Yeah, and this

21:12

I think is a long history of Snobbery.

21:15

Yeah, we're thinking thinking about these ways

21:17

that like comedy and popularity and things

21:19

that are enjoyed by the masses are

21:21

necessarily denigrated culturally that they're

21:23

not taken seriously, they're not seen as

21:26

things for serious artists and it's part of

21:28

the ways in which we've also internalized

21:31

this idea particularly for male actors and

21:33

I think this plays out along gendered

21:35

lines that to be seen as a

21:39

Craftsman actor like a maybe a

21:41

method actor an actor who takes the

21:43

crap seriously You have to do roles

21:45

that are not going to be hyper

21:47

popular but that are going to be

21:49

critically acclaimed That might win

21:51

Oscars Something like Dallas Buyers Club, which wasn't a

21:53

failure by any stretch of the imagination But certainly

21:55

wasn't a mega hit and this I think goes

21:57

to a long history of the ways in which.

22:00

Method Acting it has become A.

22:02

This idea of the method has

22:04

become the way that we signal

22:06

masculine skill and per professionalism for

22:08

actors and you can't do that

22:10

and a rom com. Ah, but

22:12

it's also tied to just. Long.

22:15

Histories of you know, rom coms or women's

22:17

films and so we don't take them seriously

22:19

whereas action films which are equally as melodramatic

22:21

and floppy, we take a little bit more

22:24

seriously. And for as what makes sense that

22:26

Mcconaughey would hardly pivot by also partnering with

22:28

somebody like Chris Nolan through a film like

22:30

Interstellar which is that perfect. kind of like

22:33

we're gonna do a serious art film but

22:35

make it blockbuster. He rate and make it

22:37

as something a lot of people are going

22:39

to go and see which is that nice

22:42

that Nolan has can have occupied. So.

22:45

Who is Matthew Mcconaughey? In Two

22:48

Thousand and Three When he gets

22:50

hired. On the Sept. I'm

22:52

forty one years old,

22:54

so I remember when

22:56

Matthew Mcconaughey. Became.

22:58

A song. It was like overnight

23:00

he was in a movie with

23:02

Sandra Ball at it when the

23:04

John Grisham movies and then we

23:07

all were like oh he was

23:09

oxy been dazed and confused but

23:11

like overnight he was this like

23:13

beautiful southern citing for the good

23:15

of Samuel L Jackson. He like

23:17

came in like a hero. Yeah,

23:20

absolutely his. His trajectory is actually very

23:23

similar to what. What? It

23:25

would have been in the studio era if

23:27

the studios had choreographed at. He starts and

23:29

like our small indie film like Dazed and

23:31

Confused and Gets It gets a film credits

23:33

and then or works his way up through

23:35

these kind of like regional like again southern.

23:38

he does Lone Star at another ensemble cast.

23:40

I hadn't really breaks through with a time

23:42

to Kill again in a moment in which

23:44

he can in the marketing team doesn't have

23:46

to be. This is Matthew Mcconaughey film and

23:48

it was very much of this is Sandra

23:51

Bullock film. This is a Samuel Jackson so

23:53

even. Though they are both. Super. Minor

23:55

characters That yeah Matthew Mcconaughey film.

23:57

It's his film. As you look at the promotions, you

23:59

look at the the posts they can get up and

24:01

like equal Waiting for everybody says a typical strategy right

24:03

as you have a new star and you're trying to

24:05

figure out like a we like this guy. were trying

24:07

to figure out what to do with them, Put him

24:09

in something where he doesn't have to carry it is

24:11

the whole way. or even though his performance certainly carries

24:13

the film in a promotion, he doesn't have to carry

24:15

up. And so then he gets established as a couple

24:17

things. He they put him with Jodie Foster and contact

24:19

to. He's not the primary star in that movie either.

24:22

It's yeah and then he's with. They. They

24:24

start okay this is occur at career trajectory for

24:26

him. ah but then in two thousand what he

24:28

does wedding planner and that starts this string of

24:30

rom coms that he takes and word that's where

24:32

he becomes the lead rate, He becomes that the

24:35

asset that can be used to promote these films.

24:37

and I mean I think he's great in that

24:39

medic he performs really wonderfully and rom coms which

24:41

is why why some of these films are are

24:44

really fun and. He's great at promoting

24:46

them right. He likes flirts with

24:48

every single person. His interviews Han

24:50

and said as clips are. Amazing.

24:53

Right leg: she's flirting with David

24:55

Letterman. Yeah, he's really charming on

24:57

the press circuit. He's great with interviewers. He's

24:59

great on T V performances of his. kind

25:01

of like tailor made for this and gets

25:03

in that trajectory. see and two thousand and

25:05

three when this comes along. and this is

25:07

kind of a path that he's going down

25:09

as I gave. You want to be a

25:11

leading man? It's a leading man and rom

25:13

coms, Which female actors right? it can be

25:15

in a rom coms, sometimes actions. Today it's

25:17

super heroes that right? And but that was

25:20

a very clear path to okay. you do

25:22

these big rom com movies and if they

25:24

do well, you'll get bigger and bigger payouts.

25:26

And then often times it's with that caveat

25:28

like then net you do enough of them,

25:30

you can then make your own path. And.

25:32

Yeah, and a part of this is a

25:34

little bit of typecasting, but he's also really

25:37

perfectly suited for a lot of these roles

25:39

because the rom com men and rom coms

25:41

are always trying to balance the set of

25:43

expectations. Rent that they're they're They're mans men

25:45

right side of they have this can a

25:47

masculine or about them. Sometimes they're bad boys

25:49

but we need to believe that they can

25:51

also be vulnerable and also be sensitive and

25:53

also open up for I'd silicon wedding planner.

25:55

He's like it's kind of are hard role

25:58

in that he's someone who's thinking about. Feeding

26:00

on his fiance, the whole movie. that hard

26:02

to pull off rate. She

30:00

had an iconic role as Penny Lane

30:02

and she needed something else like iconic

30:04

to solidify that cause you don't wanna

30:06

have this great breakout role and then

30:08

follow it with flops because then you're

30:10

careers stalls out. Some. Upon

30:13

a whole is the anchor of this

30:15

sounds and see, is that like he's

30:17

top billing? He's the reason it's gonna

30:20

succeed. Yeah, I say he's

30:22

he's that more marketable commodity in a

30:24

pin. the promotion of the films and

30:26

she's kind of like a rising Star

30:28

that they're couple and with it, but

30:30

it's helped solidify her stardom as well.

30:32

Written helps Can of get her to

30:34

the point where she could get top

30:36

billing. Ah, but obviously in their trajectory

30:38

is Mcconaughey has. like said, the rom

30:40

com thing pivoted and has now risen

30:42

to the ranks of can have a

30:44

lists high performing stars. Whereas Hudson has

30:46

more seats, she's had a moment in

30:48

the mid two thousand and has kind.

30:51

Of flatlined a little bit more in terms of

30:53

her career than he has for sure. All.

30:55

Her career and selling leggings has really

30:57

taken off. Cel. Yeah are and he's been

30:59

open. Read that she makes most of her

31:01

money and does poet her with her fashion

31:03

ventures, an axe sometimes or it like she's

31:05

die, she was in class and yen which

31:07

at with the money over there? Yes, Yeah,

31:10

absolutely. And it's brilliant because it says the

31:12

see someone who's willing it makes fun of herself

31:14

or more than impressed that perception that some people.

31:16

May have a higher absolutely. We always love

31:18

it when stars poke fun at themselves. We

31:20

we love stars. be also love to hate

31:22

stars and so we we. We really enjoy

31:24

it when stars are self deprecating about their

31:27

own start of about their on persona s.

31:29

L case of a for I let you go ras.

31:32

A star emerge as

31:34

in this Sounds Introducing

31:36

Katherine, Hi and. The.

31:39

Best friend and rom com the something

31:41

that is discussed all the lights. Kathryn

31:43

Hahn like this actually ended up having

31:46

her breakout role. Why is. So.

31:48

Special about Kathryn Hahn in this

31:50

movie that see actually Tuck the

31:52

Best Friend. And. Like became this

31:55

leading lady. Yeah, at Se

31:57

that's a it's been over a long trajectory

31:59

mean Catherine Hunting. Interesting, lenient leading lady in

32:01

that she's really carved out a space for

32:03

herself as what we think of as like

32:05

a character actor, a someone who is often

32:07

not necessarily the anchor of the film but

32:09

is gonna take on really central roles. I

32:12

am both film and Tv and I like

32:14

central supporting roles. and yeah, and she was

32:16

obviously like this is a great breakout role

32:18

for her and that it showcased a lot

32:20

of her her talents or eight and that

32:22

like she's she's funny and like her performance

32:24

of this kind of like over the top

32:26

leagues femininity that's trying to like. Grapple.

32:29

With the world, the scene where she pretends

32:31

to be the couple's counsellors. She's really great

32:34

and and that's I Love Kathryn Hahn. I

32:36

think she's amazing And almost everything she does

32:38

Bialik see the Best Friend in a rom

32:40

com is actually a really appropriate role for

32:42

her career trajectory because he played a lot

32:45

of those supporting supporting role throughout. a lot

32:47

of her friends that really really well at

32:49

them and before she started moving into really

32:51

more recently as he got a little older.

32:53

Some of these more can have a leading

32:56

roles but usually not in really big budget

32:58

stuff is not necessarily. Had like a really

33:00

big budgets. Yes, we think you can anchor

33:02

a film. That part of that is also

33:04

just the the landscape of stardom has changed

33:07

in the streaming era, and that's how we

33:09

become much more focus on intellectual property and

33:11

less on stars. And it's only the really

33:13

top tier of stars that are used to

33:16

really anchor film, which is why we have

33:18

so few stars who are under the age

33:20

of forty five. Who. Are like

33:22

really anchor stars today, right? See

33:25

anchored that. Disney. Marple

33:27

South. Well she started as a supporting character and

33:30

one division and is now moving into that one,

33:32

right? That's that's kind of the a pivot for

33:34

her and will see I go them eg. I

33:36

think she's awesome an amazing. This is a great

33:38

open like breakout role for her. So. Yeah

33:41

I like ending is consistent. Adding that her

33:43

and how much we love her. This.

33:46

Weekend. And every conversation talk about Kathryn

33:48

Hahn. She's the Best! well

33:51

ras thank you so much even better than

33:53

any authorities attacking that haven't han is ending

33:55

at a conversation to sing thank you for

33:58

being so supportive of this project and

34:00

we really didn't know what we were

34:02

doing because the whole point of this project is

34:04

what is film? And so you've just been holding

34:06

our hand through that with such grace and knowledge.

34:08

And thank you so much for coming on today,

34:10

but also for all of your work. I

34:13

have enjoyed every moment of it. This is

34:15

so fun. Love talking movies and stars

34:17

and rom coms and our culture. So happy

34:20

to help. So

34:40

as always, we are now going to get

34:42

the great Hannah Rehack on the phone. We

34:44

are going to be watching a scene and

34:46

we will simultaneously be wondering about

34:49

the star power of

34:52

Maddie pre-meconnaissance and

34:55

Kate in

34:58

this like

35:00

very cringe-worthy

35:03

scene. Hi

35:06

Hannah. Hi. Whoo. This

35:09

scene that we're talking about today, it's

35:12

a lot. It's definitely a lot.

35:14

Once again, my heart is racing because you're going to

35:16

ask me to summarize it. I am. Please do. Okay.

35:20

Okay. Ben is

35:22

having a guy's night flanked by friends of

35:24

his we don't really know and then his

35:26

like two best buds as well, who he

35:28

works with played by Adam Goldberg and Thomas

35:31

Lennon. And she's crashed

35:33

the party and he's crashed the party

35:35

to poker night. And we

35:37

pick up with him making the crazy signal,

35:39

like twisting his finger around his ear. Like

35:41

she's nuts to his buddies. She sees it.

35:43

She comes in, she calls him out on

35:45

it. She's like, I can't believe that would

35:49

insinuate that I'm nuts. She throws a plate

35:51

of food. His friends try to cover for

35:53

him. She's like, no, no, no, no, no. She shoved

35:55

the love print in his face. She runs to the

35:58

elevator. He chases her out. The.

36:00

Dog follows the ugliest dog in the world as a

36:03

student or the My God. I sit around

36:05

just sold you. Need. To

36:07

but for me, there's a fire there's There's actually no

36:09

line between ugly and cute Dog say they are one

36:11

in the same yeah from he is. it's. And.

36:14

He's. Like what's going on? what has happened

36:16

in their where's the cool. A. Sexy Andy I

36:19

know it's important would that part

36:21

of that he less the one

36:23

who wants to be a serious

36:25

journalist. Yeah the one who are who

36:27

wants a career in journalism like whereas see

36:29

all with that with the dollars like up

36:31

and down. And I honestly

36:33

don't remember what she said be that was

36:35

so consumed by last. Season's something like so

36:37

I guess we're done. I'm. Crazy.

36:39

So I guess yes, right? and is like

36:42

I guess so. That.

36:44

She goes an elevator, he picks up

36:46

the dog walk back in the apartment.

36:48

When she doesn't elevator she's looks so

36:50

relieved. We see what so relieved that

36:52

then she also does this Oh no

36:54

and my sad. Like. We have.

36:56

there's a different feel, a good as the ceiling

36:58

Southern India. And and yeah, he

37:00

does, his fans and. They try to convince

37:02

him to go back in is no no

37:04

no and then they they start imagining it.

37:07

you know great while years be working on

37:09

silly. Campaigns. From now

37:11

on including the hill a do seem

37:13

campaign they they throw that as like

37:15

a one liner of like the low

37:17

level women's products not diamonds but to

37:19

hygiene products and then he's like okay

37:21

fine and he runs out onto his

37:23

fire escapes and as sort of like

37:25

a mission Impossible style dance down all

37:28

the way the sidewalk just in time

37:30

for heard arrived he says less two

37:32

couples therapy she thinks about it. She

37:35

agrees. He thinks

37:37

they're like in a better place and she said

37:39

i love you better have to like you She

37:41

walks way absolutely baffled that he has chased after

37:43

her. And. He looks like

37:45

he kept leave yes yes for know if you. But.

37:48

That's it. Yeah, we find out it's for

37:50

more days. The only thing I have to

37:52

add is that I think the most crucial

37:54

line in the film is in this scene

37:56

and that is when she looks at him

37:58

and says. Seven. You had

38:00

enough. So insulting.

38:03

save. For more than I do

38:05

think it's a really important. Line.

38:07

Right like it's gluing us in

38:10

to the fact that cool and

38:12

eats he are not understand why

38:14

ban would be putting up. With.

38:17

A woman with feelings who matches

38:19

a person with address and with

38:21

so disappointing. As she's not wrong. She's

38:24

not wrong to doubt that it's. Insincere.

38:27

Right. affect us that stick that essential

38:29

flaws of our it's like. Her.

38:32

Internalized Misogyny is telling her like no

38:34

man would do this and then it's

38:36

like both. Actually not as internalized misogyny

38:38

is actually by the by the standards

38:40

of the reality of the movie. That's

38:42

true, No magic as unless they were

38:44

trying to still a diamond ad campaign.

38:46

Right because the other thing the his

38:48

friends say. They're. Like you're gonna

38:50

be doing damn ad campaigns rest of your life

38:52

and do you think set the duty as are

38:55

going to enjoy their new office right? So it's

38:57

like. His. Pride is on the

38:59

line and money is on the line and he

39:01

me as both of those things to the on

39:03

the line in order to put up with her.

39:06

Home isn't any. Be losing to the

39:08

Jesus Two women right? right? He can't

39:11

lose to women. Yeah, He views into women.

39:13

it's very grim. I mean we talked about

39:15

this last episode. I think that like there's

39:17

this really something. very very sad to me

39:19

that late. For. Her the game

39:21

he's playing is making her more of

39:23

an optimist. About Man

39:26

Yeah and like the game that

39:28

sees playing field consistent with his

39:30

relationship to women. Yeah.

39:33

In I think that uses Art out

39:35

Me or to Gilly Why I think

39:37

that line haven't you had enough is

39:39

so important because she's like I wouldn't

39:41

be as percent right like. I'm.

39:43

Imitating my friend Michelle and I would

39:45

never put up with my friend Michelle.

39:48

Because. What? And just get upstairs and

39:50

you might obviously throwing a plea is

39:52

really bad, although I couldn't tell upon

39:55

the slashing, is that supposed to be

39:57

a paper plate? But. c

39:59

d witness him calling her crazy

40:01

and then a group of men gaslighting

40:03

her about the fact that they just

40:05

called her crazy. I don't

40:07

know. Having a big reaction to that

40:10

and being like, screw all of you.

40:12

I'm taking my plant and

40:14

leaving. Like this is actually a

40:16

very reasonable response. And

40:19

so for her to be like, God,

40:22

it's so weird that you want to make this

40:24

work, rather than like,

40:26

why aren't you on your hands and he's

40:28

apologizing for calling me crazy. It's

40:31

also like his version of

40:33

like talking that through. And I

40:35

want to say, for the record, like I

40:37

know this is a comedy and and I'm mostly interested

40:40

in that part of it. But when I think about

40:42

why I don't like this movie or what's what rubs

40:44

me the wrong way, it's like, because if I were

40:46

to take it seriously, what ultimately happens is instead of

40:48

like racing after her to the elevator to be like,

40:50

I was like so rude

40:52

of me to call you crazy. I'm feeling like so overwhelmed

40:54

by your behavior. I shouldn't

40:57

have been like talking behind your back when

40:59

you're in the room, you know, whatever the

41:02

thing is. Yeah. And instead, it's like he's

41:04

trying to win her back through this really

41:07

problematic, insulting condescension that I definitely

41:09

have experienced in relationships with them

41:11

of being like placating

41:14

and trying to get over the moment and smooth

41:16

things over to then probably go

41:18

back into the other room and be like, they

41:21

just be crazy. Great God, I said the

41:23

right thing to her. Like there's there's

41:25

an answer like that whole kind of

41:27

losing game that heterosexual relationships put women

41:29

in that make men feel like there's

41:32

a right answer, quote unquote, and that

41:34

like they have to get it right. And then and

41:37

then you'll forgive them. And then, you know, everything

41:39

will be fine. And it's like, it's not that.

41:41

And that's actually a really like condescending way

41:43

to move through a relationship. I'm getting so I'm

41:45

like, I want to like flip a paper plate.

41:47

I'm going to go to it thinking about it.

41:50

But I'm like, that's how he's approaching conflict.

41:52

And I think the way he's approaching conflict

41:54

is super, super gendered. And that's almost the

41:57

part that Leaves the worst taste

41:59

in my mouth. right?

42:01

Because years you are supposed to think

42:03

that she is the crazy one in

42:05

this scene. To use the language of

42:07

the found riotous, you're not axis of

42:09

us to judge him in this scene.

42:12

Faith. In fact, we're supposed

42:14

to think oh wow, Indian man,

42:17

elevators like time bombs this not

42:19

gonna get to do this guy.

42:25

I didn't notice a good thing

42:27

I notice as he does a

42:29

lot of the same where she's

42:31

shows off his arms a lot

42:33

He's like constantly lifting his arms

42:35

about his spear he is in

42:37

order to show me his arms

42:39

n is as he is wearing

42:41

this t shirt that is like

42:43

obviously tailored to within an inch

42:45

of it's life to be lame

42:47

varied take over his abs and

42:49

like perfectly and stover his arms.

42:52

And looked like it's from Old Navy

42:54

and like he just put it on

42:56

and then yeah, I love your point

42:59

as a ham. Doing

43:01

this sort of like stunt man level

43:03

thing. words clearly him the whole way

43:05

going down that fire escape map. Mcconaughey

43:08

did his own stunts and how to

43:10

lose a guy and a. Specific

43:12

part is if it's a.

43:14

Spotlight. He did Ray and

43:16

like this is yeah, I'm just

43:18

saying that he doesn't It's just

43:21

counting on his charm to distract

43:23

us. From. How

43:26

heinous that says. And he. And.

43:28

It I mean it largely works

43:30

for me upon I guess how

43:32

the spirit of affects. Months.

43:34

Ago when. You. Came.

43:37

To even as and he said what do you think about

43:39

it to the movie and I said i don't think he

43:41

should do it and the new lovingly were like well guess

43:44

what to see Days later he decided we are doing. It

43:46

singular your invoice our Css if.

43:49

You. Put your your are you it was that

43:51

you like but it has every say if they

43:54

has all the components of a romantic comedy in

43:56

a way that are clear and obvious and we

43:58

can like dig into them and. That the

44:00

great okay foundation for the rest of

44:02

the season and and this seem. Particularly.

44:05

Matthew Mcconaughey going down the. Fire.

44:08

Escape. Makes

44:10

me think of that because

44:12

that is such a classic

44:14

part of a rom com,

44:16

which is the typically it's

44:19

the male lead doing something

44:21

somewhat physically strenuous that shows

44:23

urgency and physical prowess. And.

44:26

And not to spoil movies you will

44:28

talk about but like everything but sending

44:30

the hit about you and like he's

44:32

ledger doing his song and dance on

44:35

the bleachers right like that that that

44:37

is actually part of smell showmanship. Even

44:39

though she doesn't see it, he's actually

44:41

not really performing his masculinity for her.

44:44

In this film is mostly. For

44:46

for me, it for us. And. We get to

44:48

be like that's really sexy, like. That's

44:50

really cool. The way you move and the way that you're

44:52

pretty embodied. Yes, And even

44:54

Billie Crystal when Harry Met Sally like

44:57

we get sorts of him running to

44:59

her. Gray late, even

45:01

the Lakers. even that he will be.

45:05

A uses I don't fucking asses when

45:07

Harry Met Sally is like a very

45:09

says the gall movie right? right? Like

45:12

rates as a lot of sought some

45:14

others you have them he said very

45:16

on action sequences be and where he's

45:18

like dodging traffic and running through the

45:21

streets of New York in order to

45:23

get to her. Yeah and we're going

45:25

to see it again. he's gonna go

45:28

off on a motorcycle for her but

45:30

I think say that this like. Men:

45:33

Running After Women. Saying.

45:36

And like having to like says athlete

45:38

jump over things in order to get

45:40

to her. Is

45:42

absolutely one of the components. the other

45:45

things and he has and i like

45:47

not obvious way is a make over.

45:49

it seemed of has a reverse make

45:52

over but it does have like so

45:54

much closing speakers and he has to

45:56

switch her style in order to be

45:59

like annoying looking. And

46:01

so you get these two

46:03

different looks, right? It's

46:05

very like pretty woman, the

46:07

pre-rich man look and the

46:09

post-rich man look or the

46:12

famous 27 dresses montage, right?

46:14

Just re-watch not a rom-com but

46:16

Devil Wears Product, right? Like movies

46:19

geared toward women like have a

46:21

section at one point where you're

46:23

kind of flipping through a fashion

46:25

magazine. And I love that.

46:27

And this movie has that. It

46:29

feels like you're flipping through a fashion magazine.

46:32

And there are like sight gags

46:34

with her outfit. Like when

46:36

you realize in this scene that her purse

46:39

matches her dress, you're like, oh my God,

46:41

right? Like, yeah,

46:43

I'm looking forward to hearing you talk more about

46:45

that throughout the rest of the season in the

46:47

sense that I think montages

46:50

are really interesting site of

46:52

like transformation. Like that is

46:54

what they are. And like what is so

46:56

attractive to a woman audience

46:59

about the promise of transformation in

47:02

relation to the change

47:04

in their relationships or the change in their status

47:07

in their career or whatever it is. Like

47:09

what is driving this desire to feel like

47:11

you can be different versus

47:14

like if we compare it to not it's like

47:16

a binary, but compare it to the

47:18

physical action of the man in the

47:20

movie that we're getting, we're going to

47:22

get promised. Like what is the

47:24

promise of that to a male viewer or to a

47:26

woman viewer as well to be like, it's the promise

47:29

of you being chased or somebody

47:31

being able to protect you being like physically strong

47:33

and able to protect you. Yeah. Yeah.

47:37

And elegant. I'll say Matthew McConaughey, very elegant.

47:39

Yeah. I couldn't stop

47:41

thinking about the hair person

47:44

who perfectly placed his curls

47:46

before that kitchen

47:49

scene. I was like, oh

47:51

my God, someone came and like wrapped it

47:53

around their finger and perfectly placed it on

47:55

his forehead. And I

47:57

just really loved thinking about that.

48:00

this viewing. I was like, he's

48:02

a product that they've put together for me,

48:04

right? They've packaged up this product for me

48:06

and they're like, here you go. It's like,

48:09

you will find this attractive. And I,

48:11

the only thing that I wish this

48:13

movie had for us to talk about

48:15

this season is a

48:17

male product that I wanted

48:20

to purchase, like I found

48:22

attractive. There's something about McConaughey

48:24

that like, it just doesn't

48:27

work on me. And most of these

48:29

male products do. I'm like chanting Tatum

48:31

step up. Yes. Right. Like usually I'm

48:34

just like, yes, I love these products

48:36

and I'll eat them with butter. But

48:38

McConaughey, man, he's

48:41

sleazy. I just can't

48:43

get on board with a man who I'm

48:45

fairly confident I would walk by, he'd pinch

48:47

my butt. And if I told him it

48:49

bothered me, he would tell me to chill

48:51

out. Yeah. I mean, he

48:53

is a larger than life actor at this point,

48:55

like his personhood as a

48:57

real celebrity. I'll say

49:00

it, not real person, but a

49:02

celebrity is definitely, it definitely informs

49:04

the way we read him. Now

49:06

we know he has like a tequila

49:08

brand or whatever it is and

49:10

is like the Lincoln car. Like,

49:13

like we know what products are like, what like

49:15

echelon he's sort of representing. And we know that

49:17

he's a Republican and we know that like we

49:20

know, we know so much about it. I know

49:22

that I think like the smartness is like, you're

49:24

like, yeah, I can't like forget

49:26

it because it's like so stripping off of

49:28

on it. Yeah, that said, I can

49:30

forget it and I do every

49:33

time he lifts his arm and shows you his

49:35

delts. I'm just like, yeah, I'm like, pick me

49:38

up. I

49:40

bet you could carry me down that fire. I bet

49:42

you could carry me. I

49:44

can't help myself. I need help. Oh, yes,

49:46

we contain multitude. Hannah,

49:54

thank you so much.

49:57

A pleasure is always.

49:59

Thanks. You've

50:05

been listening to Hot N' Bothered. We are

50:07

a small show so we really do need

50:09

your support to run. If you can, please

50:11

consider supporting us on Patreon at patreon.com/Hot N'

50:14

Bothered ROM Pod. If you love

50:16

the show, please leave us a review on Apple

50:18

Podcast. Tell me I'm just like

50:20

Kate Hudson. I can't hear it enough. We

50:22

are not sorry. Production, our executive

50:24

producers are Caitlin Hofmeister and me,

50:26

Venez Soltan. A huge thank you!

50:29

This week to our

50:31

consulting producer and

50:33

special guest this week, Russell May. And

50:36

if you want to hear him analyze a

50:38

scene with me, you can hear that on

50:41

our Patreon. We are edited and produced by

50:43

Ariana Nettelman and we are distributed by

50:45

8pass. Thanks as always to

50:47

our soulmate level patrons. Gretchen

50:49

Sneegass, whose window we would hold a

50:51

boombox outside of. Molly Rely, who we

50:54

would chase through an airport to declare

50:56

our love to. Sookie Boo, who we

50:58

would wait for hours on the top

51:00

of the Empire State Building for. Elizabeth

51:03

Schweisenberg, whose heart we would play

51:05

a game of one-on-one basketball for.

51:07

And Claudia Hammerman, who we would

51:09

give the whole door to float

51:12

on, even if there was room for

51:14

both of us. And to our team, Julia

51:16

Argy, Nicky Zoltan, AJ Yeramas, Hannah

51:18

Rehack, Martha Dachwilson, Courtney Brown, Natalie

51:21

Folkerts, Phaedias Reyes, and Stephanie

51:23

Paulsow. Thanks everyone. We'll talk to you

51:25

later. And

51:32

sorry as always. Returning

51:35

my brain rotten. My mom listened to

51:37

it. She was like, I just worry that she's

51:40

convincing you it's a good movie and it's

51:42

not. Mom

51:47

deserves better than a drugstore card. This

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at moonpig.com. Welcome

52:17

to another round of drawing board

52:19

or Miro board. Today we talk

52:21

brainstorms with UX designer Brian. Let's

52:24

go. First question. You thought you'd

52:26

see everyone's idea in the team

52:28

brainstorm but you've got a grand

52:30

total of one. Drawing board

52:32

or Miro board? Drawing board right because

52:34

in Miro the team can add ideas

52:36

now or later and with privacy mode

52:38

we can keep them anonymous until they're

52:40

good to share. Correct. Next. You

52:42

need the best way to explain your idea

52:44

but all you have is a few sticky

52:47

notes. Drawing board or Miro board? Drawing board

52:49

because you know in Miro I could record

52:51

videos, add text, images, links and digital sticky

52:53

notes of course, present my thoughts the way

52:55

I want. Right again. Now you're

52:58

looking for a past idea you thought

53:00

was just genius. Only you could find,

53:02

oh there it is. Drawing board or

53:04

Miro. All our finished and unfinished work

53:06

lives in one place. And

53:08

he's won. Join over 60 million people

53:10

getting ideas noticed in Miro brainstorms. Get

53:12

your first three boards for free at miro.com.

53:15

That's M-I-R-O dot com.