0:02

Hi and welcome to Housewives

0:04

of True Crime. Welcome. Welcome.

0:07

I am Tabitha. Give me

0:10

Dateline, White Wine, and I'll pick up

0:12

your kids in the carpool line. The

0:14

next day, right? Yeah, the next day.

0:16

Okay. And I am Gretchen. I

0:19

like White Wine, True Crime,

0:21

and In Bed by 9 because I have a lot of stuff to do in the

0:25

morning. We are

0:28

Housewives of True Crime.

0:30

Yes we are. Yes

0:34

we are. Okay,

0:36

welcome. Welcome.

0:38

Housewives of True Crime.

0:42

Up in here in

0:44

the month of love. Yes.

0:54

We are decked out

0:56

accordingly, Gretchen and her,

0:59

murder-ish. Yeah, my son was feeling a

1:01

little left out because my daughters have,

1:04

you know, plenty of heart gear. They're

1:06

covered for Valentine's Day and he wanted

1:08

a t-shirt so I did one of

1:10

them late night teemu purchases and it

1:12

came, I haven't showed it to him

1:14

yet. It's supposed to be a tie-dye

1:17

heart but it kind of just

1:19

looks like menstruation or

1:21

murder on a shirt. Oh

1:24

my God, that's so gross. So gross!

1:26

I cannot let the kid wear this but I'll

1:28

wear it. Sure.

1:30

For today. For today. For

1:33

today. Not in public. I

1:35

used to run her, I actually am

1:37

going to a Galentine's lunch for my

1:39

tennis team today and so I had

1:41

Valentine's on already and I

1:43

was like, girl, you got to find something.

1:46

She's like, I have a perfect day. She didn't like my black.

1:48

No, she didn't. And you didn't compliment me on my makeup.

1:51

I watched this cat eye tutorial

1:53

on TikTok and so I was waiting

1:55

for the opportunity. You know, you did

1:57

a really good job actually. Thank

1:59

you. See that so I don't

2:01

tell you I can do that because

2:04

of my eyelids. Whenever I tried out

2:06

put like the mascara it goes like

2:08

on all sorts of. Different.

2:10

Hangovers. Yeah, you got you.

2:13

Got sloppy eyes and so. You have your

2:15

little procedures and let me tell you can them

2:17

and I would love to be encouraging that you

2:19

could but. Sadly one of either.a little

2:21

bit of a droop to and that with

2:23

the part that was the trickiest. The.

2:26

Dial. The droop mean

2:29

that's called after forty. You know

2:31

what did we do before you

2:33

take? Talk to Torrijos. Ah I'm.

2:37

We didn't really wear makeup play, we didn't

2:39

know how did he thinks. yeah the kids

2:41

wear make up now and they put all

2:43

the sit on their face and they know

2:46

what to do. Ah and save me Now

2:48

we just in do that. By the way,

2:50

I am using the Five Crimes. Scrub,

2:54

On. My face now. Somebody.

2:56

Said that to me. They. said oh i you

2:58

it on my face. Dude. My

3:00

face has never been

3:02

so amazingly thought It's

3:04

it's like. If

3:07

you haven't tried that, please go to Five

3:09

Crimes and get the am smooth criminal. It's.

3:12

It's. It's a good. It's a jack

3:14

of all trades for everything. Also, I

3:16

wanted to say thank you to Melissa

3:18

or listeners sent me over a jersey

3:21

for cold tea. Or

3:23

The Superbowl. What's happened

3:25

yesterday? In terms of.

3:28

When. As airs but we have no

3:31

idea in actuality who won by.

3:33

Let's go Chief! right?

3:35

Yeah, For you, are you forty niner And.

3:38

Now I mean, I, I don't. you know? I

3:40

mean I really only like my team so I

3:42

want whatever is going to make everybody else happy.

3:45

Okay, so let's his bat right now. Have

3:48

any a new. You you wanted a sailor

3:50

going to make it to the Superbowl? Yeah, that's. What

3:52

I'm more excited allow? Yeah,

3:54

it is. An. I'm gonna

3:56

say that she's they're gonna win. And

3:59

you say the forty. are going to win. No,

4:01

I don't want to say that because I'm what

4:03

we got. Okay, fine. I

4:06

bet the same. Okay, fine.

4:08

We can both say the Chiefs are going to win. Yeah.

4:11

I only want to bet whether Taylor is coming or

4:13

not. Because I think I'm rooting for the Chiefs because

4:15

I think everybody is. You

4:17

think everybody is? I don't know. Except

4:19

my daughter Willow. She's really anti everything. All

4:22

of a sudden she's anti Taylor Swift. And

4:24

she wants the other team to win. Okay,

4:27

she must have had a friend say

4:30

that to her or something. Get in

4:32

her head. Get in her head. Okay, well, you got

4:34

to go along to get along. Let's get

4:36

along. Yeah. My

4:39

son is all also like, now

4:42

everybody just wants to jump on the

4:44

bandwagon because they're winning and I like

4:46

them forever. Well, if you really love

4:48

them, then yeah, that's

4:50

how I feel about Dolly Parton. But

4:53

let me tell you what true love

4:55

is. If you really love them, then

4:57

you're happy that the world is embracing

4:59

them too. Okay, right. I'll

5:02

tell you tell him that word to the wise.

5:04

Otherwise, you're gonna get real bitter. Okay, what's that

5:06

happen? Uh huh. Nope. Not at 10 years old.

5:08

You can only be bitter at like 4045.

5:11

Okay, I'm not even there yet. Oh,

5:14

fuck. I hate that you're younger than me. It's annoying.

5:17

Are you 45? I am

5:20

halfway to 90. Oh my

5:22

gosh. Hot damn. Hot damn.

5:25

Well, you are still looking

5:27

fine. Oh, and I'm gonna

5:29

keep looking fine because guess what? I'm on a

5:31

soberish journey. Oh, are you? Are

5:34

you doing ritual? Oh,

5:36

no. What is it? Um, recess.

5:38

Yes. Yes. I am enjoying the

5:41

recess cocktails. I have also been

5:43

upping all of my herbal supplements,

5:47

flirting with some THC situation. No,

5:49

I did not know that. Oh, yeah. Huh?

5:51

Turns out you can just order that shit

5:53

in the mail. You don't even

5:55

have to take your ass down to the green store. I

5:57

did hear that also. That's a little scary. It

6:00

is a little. Well,

6:03

so that is all

6:05

great. I feel great during the

6:07

day. I'm in a great mood. You know when I'm not

6:09

in a good mood? Tell me. At

6:11

night, when I start to get tired.

6:14

And in the morning? And in the morning. I

6:16

find myself saying things like, why are you talking?

6:19

Oh my God, girl. At least it's

6:21

your husband, not your kids. You can

6:24

always get on your kids. But

6:26

it's like, oh my God. I

6:28

don't know how to get past this hump. I mean, I

6:30

am a real bitch. Yeah, well, I'm sorry.

6:33

You need to do more TV. I don't

6:35

know if it's worth it. Today, after I

6:37

had a cup of coffee, I came downstairs

6:39

and said, sorry, I was

6:41

a little snappy. And he's like, and

6:43

you snapped at me yesterday too. I'm

6:47

sorry. I'm sorry. This

6:49

is really hard. Life

6:52

is hard. Hopefully you have a good

6:54

story of love and not heartbreak. I

6:57

do. Let me tell you. And

6:59

before you tell me, y'all, if

7:02

you want more of us, we

7:04

do have a Patreon and it's

7:06

also bonus content on Apple.

7:08

It's called Clink Clink Club. So you don't even

7:10

have to go to patreon.com/housewives of true crime. You

7:12

can just get it right on Apple subscription. And

7:16

we give you basically one

7:19

extra episode of crime a month.

7:22

And every single week we talk about

7:24

what's going on in the current

7:26

news and more. You can hear about

7:29

my soberish journey. You can. My

7:31

weight loss fails. You can hear. My children's

7:34

F up. And

7:36

you also get some crazy like

7:38

secrets of ours that we don't

7:40

tell everyone. We just tell you.

7:42

Current events. Yeah. Our

7:45

take on current events. Okay. So tell

7:47

me what's going on this week in the world of love.

7:54

This week's episode is a

7:56

listener suggestion from Jamie Breadstrand.

8:00

Jamie what's up? She's on the patreon

8:02

train good. So

8:04

congratulations. Yes. Congratulations, Jamie I

8:06

decided to do this case

8:09

because it's Valentine's week the

8:11

week of love and this one involves Forbidden

8:15

love. Oh, so it felt appropriate

8:20

Also spoiler alert it does not end well

8:24

And it's a little intense. So if you

8:26

are a new listener Know

8:29

that we usually Give your

8:31

ears something on the lighter side and if you're listening

8:33

with children Skip this

8:35

one. Okay. Okay, or

8:38

if you're listening with children, maybe skip all of them Okay,

8:44

okay, okay People

8:47

do tell me they listen children all the time. I Don't

8:51

let my children listen, but you do you boo I

8:53

do me. Okay. Yeah, wait. I said Okay,

8:56

this case crosses state lines,

8:58

but mostly it all goes

9:00

down in the Winston-Salem, North

9:03

Carolina back in

9:06

1985 where the following events still haunts

9:09

the community and those who knew the

9:11

ones personally involved But before

9:13

all the tragedy unfolded it was

9:15

all love for Susie Newsom

9:18

and Tom Lynch They

9:20

met in college at Wake Forest University

9:22

in Susie

9:26

was a real Southern belt. She

9:29

was a debutante and Came

9:31

from a prominent family full

9:33

of doctors lawyers judges and

9:36

even a state senator Wow,

9:39

it's like a Kennedy over there. That's right

9:42

up in Winston all about Susie

9:44

Also, did you know Winston Salem has

9:47

the oldest shell gas station?

9:50

I Didn't know no

9:53

It looked you know shell stations used to look like

9:55

shells No, but that's so

9:57

cute. I wish they did it is so cute

10:00

It's just like a museum. I wish they still

10:02

did too. I am fascinated by landmarks like that.

10:04

I would go

10:07

on a side trip just to

10:09

see that thing. It looks awesome.

10:11

Congratulations residents of Winston-Salem for

10:13

having that and preserving it. Great.

10:16

Real cute. Okay. Anyhow,

10:18

Susie embraced the hoity-toity-ness of

10:20

it all, you know? It

10:23

was the freaking 60s and Susie was the type

10:25

that preferred classical music to

10:28

popular rock and roll. She was like a

10:30

pearl collector, you know? She fancied herself

10:32

a real big deal. Yeah, no,

10:35

not my theme. No,

10:37

no, no. Well,

10:39

Tom just thought she was hot and

10:41

smart and she had a

10:43

nice sense of humor, he says. So

10:46

he tolerated the snooty vibe she put off.

10:48

Not that, you know, Tom was lowbrow. He

10:50

came from a good family as well. He

10:53

was a good student and

10:56

an aspiring dentist. So all

10:59

that was enough for these two to do

11:01

like you do if you follow a conventional

11:03

path, attend college, fall in

11:05

love, graduate, marriage, baby

11:08

carriage. Yeah. It was all

11:10

just lovely except there was a little hitch in there

11:12

getting up. Tom's mama,

11:14

Dolores, was not feeling Susie

11:17

and the feeling was mutual. Dolores

11:20

thought Susie was pretentious

11:22

and full of herself.

11:25

Which was probably true. Yeah.

11:29

Well, and in fairness, Susie

11:31

thought Dolores was annoying and

11:33

overbearing, which was probably true

11:36

too. She was also. Yeah.

11:39

So the tension between these two was

11:42

a thing. It was

11:44

fairy draining and did not get

11:46

better with time. The way

11:48

Tom and Susie saw it was

11:50

it wasn't going to get better

11:52

as long as they lived in

11:54

such close proximity. They

11:57

moved to Tom's home state of Kentucky after

11:59

the war. the wedding where Tom

12:01

attended dental school. Susie

12:03

and Tom welcomed a son in 1974

12:05

and another

12:07

in 1976. So as

12:09

soon as Tom was done with dental

12:12

school, he was invited to join

12:14

a practice in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

12:17

And Susie was happy to pack

12:19

up the boys and put some

12:21

distance between her and Tom's family.

12:24

I agree. Here's the thing about moving away.

12:26

It's like, you don't have to deal with them every

12:28

day, but when you do deal

12:30

with them, they fucking stay with you. Yeah,

12:32

it's like, it's extra. Yeah.

12:35

Okay. So Albuquerque was

12:37

a bit of a culture shock

12:40

for Miss Susie from the South,

12:42

right? I can definitely. Yeah, it's

12:47

more of a free spirited city vibe,

12:49

you know, where no one really gave

12:51

a shit about her prominent family

12:53

tree. Yeah. Albuquerque is a real,

12:56

is a happening. It's a hub

12:58

along the I-40

13:00

and embodies the whole, you

13:02

know, Southwest vibe everywhere you look in

13:05

the seventies. I feel like Albuquerque was

13:07

out blast. And just

13:09

outside the city, you can find

13:11

recreational areas for days, rivers and

13:14

mountains, hunting, hiking, fishing, you

13:16

know, basically you can find a way to

13:18

do anything there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You

13:20

can shop in every aisle of the

13:22

bath pro shop and find somewhere to use it

13:25

in close proximity. Okay. Yeah. So

13:27

Tom was stoked when

13:29

he wasn't fixing teeth, he was fixing to

13:31

be outside. He's that type. He'd get along

13:34

with my friend just fine. So Susie

13:36

though, she was not feeling Albuquerque. She

13:38

didn't care for the people, the

13:41

Southwest vibe, and certainly not

13:43

the recreational activities. You

13:45

know, I love Albuquerque and so

13:48

I don't get that, but recreation,

13:50

a lot camping, it's just not

13:52

for everyone. It's not everyone's jam and

13:54

I have learned and it took me a while. It's

13:57

best not to force it upon people. You Just leave those.

14:00

Been killed at home and okay. Are

14:03

you insinuating I'm of beds? gas?

14:05

Know. You never even make it. Eat every

14:07

make it up again girl Euro at a

14:09

time when camps By the way I am,

14:12

I am. I'm camp they

14:14

by camping see mean she would

14:16

stay at a pub in. This.

14:19

Thing it also camp in a swiss see

14:21

the cabin we did that thing and El

14:23

Capitan else will find you are good at

14:26

that time. good as campaign. I.

14:29

Did it my his hairline. I always

14:31

talking about you I know I did

14:33

it all growing up like real campaign

14:36

like in the tent type of seeing.

14:38

I think I just you know I

14:40

kept myself into. A hotel yourself

14:42

out of? Yeah, that's okay.

14:44

Fair to listen. I

14:47

will vacation in in other. Arenas

14:49

with your. Hotel

14:52

he style com felt the same

14:54

way as to leave the bad

14:56

skills at home. Okay, so he

14:58

just started going on adventures without

15:00

Sissy. That. The know.

15:03

I mean, I think maybe things would

15:05

have been different if Susie had found

15:07

herself a hobby like ceramics. Or

15:09

volunteering somewhere. But she didn't.

15:12

She. Just was real resentful of

15:14

Tom. And his outdoor zest for life.

15:17

And she to see home with an astute on at. Night

15:21

the a bad thing I have a friend like that by

15:23

the way. I'd like

15:25

to find something else to do. I know, right?

15:27

Six really got you. Yeah,

15:29

don't be bitter. Oh, speaking of

15:32

bitter, I read in the book

15:34

better Blood that according to the

15:36

neighbors when Tom was home they

15:38

knew it because Suzanne home would

15:40

argue loudly. And actually

15:42

it always sounded like Susie

15:44

just for reading Tom. Because

15:46

they said they heard everything and

15:49

it didn't sound much like Tom

15:51

Ever. Got a word in edgewise when

15:53

city when I was offered a. Marriage

15:56

is like doom than the beginning. Make

15:59

me some. good about mine, right? Why are you talking? Yeah.

16:01

Okay. So I imagine that's not real fun to come home

16:14

to for Tom, you know. So

16:17

I wouldn't blame him if he found

16:19

excuses to work a little late, which

16:22

was, you know, one of Susie's

16:24

complaints about him, the effect

16:26

that their whole new dynamic

16:28

had on Susie was she

16:31

grew more and more reclusive in the years

16:33

where her boys were young, and

16:36

she was across the country from her family

16:38

that she kind of idolized in North Carolina.

16:42

And, you know, actually thinking about it,

16:44

I suspect she might have legit been

16:46

clinically depressed, because the way her behavior

16:49

is described, it sounds like her lack

16:51

of desire to engage with the rest

16:53

of the world was really

16:56

debilitating for her. Undiagnosed

16:59

mental health issues can be very stressful.

17:02

So, you know, and it

17:04

really sounds like they grew apart. So it's

17:06

not surprising that the marriage between Susie and

17:08

Tom fell apart. And did it go to

17:10

the big D? It went to

17:12

the big D. And by the

17:15

way, the distance between Susie and

17:17

mother-in-law Dolores had not mended

17:19

the relationship. Dolores vented

17:21

to her friends about how

17:24

inhospitable her daughter-in-law was when

17:27

her and Tom's sister, Janie, came out for

17:29

a visit. She was horrified that Susie informed

17:31

them that she had found them a motel,

17:34

because they could not, would not be staying with

17:36

her. That takes some

17:38

balls, right? Okay.

17:42

I don't think that a

17:45

motel is the most offensive

17:47

thing ever. But FYI,

17:49

I would not advise dropping

17:52

that bomb on your mother-in-law

17:55

upon arrival. Like

17:57

let your partner brief her. on

18:01

that before she gets there.

18:03

Yeah. Otherwise, she's not going to be

18:05

in an ideal mood. You know, it's not going to

18:07

like settle in, right? So

18:09

as it was in the fall of 1979, Susie's grandfather

18:11

passed away and she took the boys with

18:17

her to North Carolina and

18:20

decided she wasn't coming back to Albuquerque. Tom

18:23

says he wasn't exactly shocked by her

18:26

choice. Back in

18:28

Winston Salem, Susie was giving anyone

18:30

who would listen an earful about

18:32

what an asshole Tom

18:35

was. And that's why she had to

18:37

leave him, you know? But

18:39

it's actually pretty clear that Tom was not an asshole.

18:42

I think it's possible that part of her

18:44

mudslinging was like a pride thing. You

18:46

know, now being divorced from a dentist

18:49

in your early thirties, it's like hot.

18:52

But in North Carolina, in her family, in

18:54

1979. Yeah, it

18:57

was looked down on. I do think

18:59

it's hot. I mean, it's like

19:01

whatever. Nobody

19:04

is blinking an eye. It's like you got it

19:06

together. You know? Yeah.

19:11

After Susie had already left and

19:13

is in North Carolina, Tom started a

19:15

relationship with his dental assistant. Tommy,

19:18

boy. Well, it's fair

19:21

that she was gone. Was it all

19:23

right? I think they were grown apart for

19:25

a long time. Yeah, but you don't think

19:27

the dental assistant was

19:30

prior to her

19:32

going back to North Carolina? Well,

19:35

yeah, that's funny. I don't believe that

19:37

she was, but that's

19:40

what Susie told everybody. I

19:43

would too. Yeah.

19:48

When she learned about it, she told everyone that

19:50

he had begun cheating during the marriage. So

19:53

that is really like, oh, what a ass. Okay.

19:57

So Susie's family helped her get a powerful attorney

20:00

to represent her in the

20:02

divorce. And after Susie kept

20:04

the boys from seeing their

20:06

father for two

20:09

years. So he

20:13

until it was all settled, he just did

20:15

not see the boys. And then when he

20:17

finally did, they did, you know, like shake

20:19

out custody, he was awarded two weeks with

20:22

them in the summer and one week every

20:24

other Christmas. I

20:26

mean, they don't even know their dad at that

20:28

point. Right. That's awful. Yeah.

20:31

And so there is this period of time

20:33

where Susie, like she took the boys

20:35

with her for some kind of job

20:37

opportunity, like teaching English in Taiwan. She

20:40

was known to be impulsive like that. I mean,

20:43

I feel like now they would not let you take, you know,

20:45

without consent, like take your kids to another country.

20:48

I don't know, but it didn't pan out. And

20:50

so she came home. She

20:52

met a man at home and

20:54

became engaged to him. But

20:57

he broke it off with her because he

20:59

could not handle her obsession

21:01

with keeping the boys from

21:03

Tom. Yeah, that's very good. Her

21:06

obsession with Tom consumed her. And it

21:09

also involved her former mother-in-law,

21:11

especially after she learned Dolores

21:14

wanted to testify for

21:16

Tom to

21:18

increase visitation. The

21:21

toll it took on Susie drew concern

21:23

from her family. Even though

21:25

they believed that Tom like was the asshole

21:28

Susie was making him out to be, she

21:31

had become difficult to be

21:33

around. In addition to her

21:36

obsession with Tom, she was

21:38

irritable, restless, struggling to keep

21:40

it together. And on the

21:42

daily, you know, not hiding

21:45

it as like the proper Southern

21:48

thing should do, right? You know, like

21:51

suck it up, put on your

21:53

headband and floral dress and come home, drink too much

21:55

and cry on your pillow. And

21:58

you know, that's called being a lady. Well,

22:01

she wasn't feeling that. She

22:04

didn't have very

22:06

much energy to get out. And

22:09

when she did, she didn't put any effort

22:12

into dressing up for the occasion. She

22:14

turned into a hot mess express. She

22:16

sounds just like me. I

22:19

didn't want to say it, but. Yeah.

22:24

Okay, so that's not flying with

22:26

her family. Appearances matter. So

22:28

they sent her to see her uncle

22:30

who was a doctor to get

22:32

her all fixed up. Susie's

22:35

uncle, Dr. Clenor, had a reputation

22:37

in town where some loved him

22:39

and others not so much because

22:42

Dr. Clenor was real

22:44

into vitamin therapy. He

22:46

was a big fan of vitamin C. He

22:50

diagnosed, and spoiler, misdiagnosed

22:52

Susie with MS, multiple

22:55

sclerosis, and began her I

22:58

mean, she was depressed.

23:00

Yeah. Yeah, okay. I thought you

23:02

were gonna tell me, he gave her a lobotomy or

23:05

something. No, he began

23:07

her on a regimen of intravenous

23:09

vitamins. The injections

23:11

did give Susie energy, and

23:15

she began enthusiastically putting

23:17

herself together and

23:19

making regular appearances at

23:21

the doctor's office. But

23:24

it wasn't just the vitamin IVs that were working for her.

24:00

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adds up. Her

26:40

first cousin Fritz worked

26:43

in his father's medical office and

26:45

he was working for Susie. Yup,

26:48

happy Valentine's Day. I am giving you

26:50

kissing cousins. Oh my God, I was

26:52

like please. Oh

26:55

they didn't love. And

26:58

they were first cousins? First

27:00

cousins. Oh man. Susie

27:03

had it so bad for

27:05

Fritz. Girlfriends started camping

27:08

with him. Tom

27:10

by the way was like you don't care. What the

27:12

fuck? You camp now? Really?

27:14

With your cousin? Yeah. What

27:18

was it about Fritz? Was Fritz like, I mean

27:21

he's on the Fritz but what the hell

27:23

was he like hot or? Well he presented

27:26

himself as a real manly

27:28

protector, rough, outdoorsy, you

27:31

know kind of thing. I

27:33

don't know. Susie did whatever Fritz

27:35

wanted to do and Fritz fancied

27:38

himself as survivalist. He

27:40

had the whole doomsday thing going on and

27:43

for Fritz that came with a lot of

27:45

guns and paranoia. Some

27:48

people thought that to be extra. Like

27:51

you know Fritz he's kind of a quack right? Was

27:53

like the rumblings but yeah Susie

27:56

thought it was extra hot and

27:58

when she obsessed to Fritz about

28:00

Tom, he thought that was hot too. They

28:03

had this mutual bond that was like,

28:05

it's us against the world, you know?

28:09

And, you know, it grew

28:11

their forbidden love. Problem was, Susie

28:14

was living with her parents, right?

28:18

And, you know, they shudder at people in

28:20

the streets talking about how Susie is looking

28:22

a little worse for wear since her divorce.

28:24

So, you know, something as

28:26

scandalous as cousin-fucking was like not accommodated

28:28

in that house. I

28:32

think they tried to ignore the

28:34

possibility for a while, but Fritz

28:37

kept showing up late night, and

28:40

it just became an undeniable

28:42

problem. And so Susie

28:44

moved out, and her

28:46

boys and her moved in with

28:48

Fritz. And when she did

28:50

move out, she was so angry with

28:52

her family, she vowed not to speak

28:54

to them ever again. She

28:56

was like, I don't need you, I have the boys

28:59

and Fritz, and he is going to protect us all

29:01

from the big bad world, okay? Aside

29:04

from his gun stockpile and access

29:06

to, you know, Vitamin Magic

29:08

via his dad's doctor's office, Fritz's

29:11

other attributes were he was

29:14

wrapping up medical school at none other

29:16

than Duke University, and

29:19

it was kind of a given he would be

29:21

taking over his dad's practice. Also,

29:24

he was a covert CIA

29:27

agent. He

29:29

was a very busy guy, but

29:31

still made time to spend with

29:34

Susie's boys and Susie

29:36

doing, you know, outdoor stuff. The

29:39

boys liked him. When the

29:41

boys went for one

29:43

of their summer visits with Tom,

29:46

he was confused by all of, why

29:48

all of a sudden, they were spending so much

29:50

time with Susie's cousin, the

29:53

boys were like, we get to shoot guns, you know,

29:55

he was like, that's

29:57

kind of wack, right? That doesn't sound like your mama. Okay.

30:03

And when the boys referred to

30:05

Fritz as Papa, I would

30:08

not be happy. You know, Tom

30:10

was pretty alarmed. Yeah. Right. Like

30:13

what is what's going on? Another

30:15

issue that was alarming to Tom was that

30:17

the boys didn't look well. They

30:20

had dark circles under their eyes and were

30:22

very thin. And

30:25

they told him that they had promised

30:27

to take all their vitamins while

30:29

they were out there for their visit. And they came with

30:31

a butt load of them. These children.

30:34

Yeah. These children. Right.

30:37

Well, Tom did like that because

30:39

he felt that the reason, you know, he's

30:41

pretty smart. He's a dentist, right? He could

30:43

tell the reason that the boys were not

30:45

thriving was because too many

30:48

vitamins can cause some of the

30:50

essentials to not be absorbed. And

30:53

that can be very dangerous for growing boys. So

30:55

he's real concerned. By

30:58

now, Tom was remarried to

31:00

Kathy, the dental assistant, and

31:03

they felt it was real detrimental to

31:05

get more custody of the boys. When

31:09

they filed for that, of course, Susie

31:11

did not take it well as she

31:13

was real spun out. But Tom

31:15

momentarily lost focus of his

31:17

custody woes because while the

31:19

boys were with him on

31:21

their summer visit, he

31:23

got a call that his mother Dolores

31:25

and sister Janie had been shot

31:28

and killed at Dolores's home. Both

31:31

women were shot in the head. Police

31:34

thought it looked like a planned assassination.

31:36

No one

31:39

suspected Susie and Fritz were involved.

31:41

Not even Tom thought Susie was

31:43

capable of something that evil. Well,

31:47

Susie did not extend that benefit of

31:49

the doubt back to Tom. She told

31:51

everyone that they had been shot because

31:53

Tom was involved with drug dealers and

31:56

that they must have done it so Tom

31:58

could pay up with his Inheritance.

32:01

Why? He I

32:03

wouldn't listen, even see parents burned

32:05

this. Is. What Suzy was

32:08

telling people? And. Been.

32:10

Out they knew there was no

32:12

way Tom was involved with any

32:15

drug dealers and thought it was

32:17

pretty awful for Suzy to be

32:19

seen such things as such a

32:21

tragic time. Although

32:24

they haven't communicated. With Tom

32:26

in years, they sent him

32:28

flowers. With. Their condolences.

32:31

Classy. Rent This! So

32:33

Thomas moved. And

32:35

he reached out to them and they all

32:37

started shouting over the next year or so

32:39

about what the app is up, with suzanne

32:42

friends and what is best for the boys.

32:45

Susie's. Father agreed to

32:47

testify for Tom against

32:49

his daughter at the

32:51

upcoming custody court case.

32:54

Mean. That must have been a difficult

32:56

conclusion to come to, but I think

32:58

testifying would have been in the best

33:00

interests. For the boys. That Susie's

33:03

dad, Bob never got the chance

33:05

because Bob along with Susie's mother.

33:08

And grandmother a beloved woman named

33:10

Howdy were all sides and killed

33:12

in Had his home a week

33:14

before Bob was set to have

33:16

his day in court. Oh.

33:19

My God As yes. Okay,

33:21

it's a lot. Snow lives triple

33:24

homicides, brunette a regular say in

33:26

Winston Salem. North

33:28

Carolina. so. This was

33:30

terrifying to the community. When police

33:33

notified cities brother, he and for

33:35

them or you know, like well

33:37

that sucks You know What About

33:39

a year ago my former brother

33:42

in law's family members were also

33:44

similarly shot and killed. He asked.

33:47

When police learned that and along with

33:49

the custody battle, they thought it was

33:51

more than a week it ain't and

33:54

they should just go see what. Suzanne.

33:56

Fred's has been up to. Turn

33:59

says. he knew right away. They

34:02

were up to no good. When he learned

34:04

about his former in-laws murders, he didn't

34:06

waste any time notifying the police that

34:09

Susie and Fritz have got to be connected to this.

34:12

The first time police attempted to question

34:14

Susie, she told them that she was

34:17

busy with dinner plans, but

34:20

she did later sit down with

34:22

them and they noted she wasn't exactly

34:24

distraught over the recent violent deaths

34:26

of three close family members. They

34:29

also sat down with Fritz who produced

34:31

an alibi for the night the Newsom's

34:33

had been killed. He said he was

34:36

camping, of course, with

34:38

his buddy and he gave

34:40

them his buddy's name and

34:42

he still had the receipt from the campsite. Of

34:46

course, Susie corroborated

34:48

that he

34:50

was camping. Yeah, Fritz was out camping that

34:52

night and, you know, she said she was

34:55

just at home. So

34:57

Fritz actually really

34:59

did have a buddy that

35:01

he went camping with named Ann

35:04

Perkins. This poor guy was a

35:06

21 year old sucka

35:09

just like Susie. Ann

35:11

was charmed by Fritz and believed

35:14

everything Fritz told him, which

35:16

was that he's almost a

35:18

doctor, right? So close and

35:21

a CIA agent that

35:24

worked covert operations. If

35:27

Ian was ever interested in getting his foot

35:30

in the door with the likes of the

35:32

CIA, he could help him out

35:35

and, you know, kill people.

35:38

Well, all he would actually need

35:40

to be doing was drive him

35:42

and he would be compensated at home.

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catch was you know

37:13

you can't tell anybody. Well

37:15

there was a possibility that he might be

37:18

questioned by the local police. Yeah

37:20

at some point and if that

37:22

happens he could not tell them

37:24

anything about the you know business

37:26

with the CIA because Fritz was

37:28

under such deep cover. He

37:32

told them everything will be fine. Just

37:35

stick with the whole we were

37:37

just camping that night and

37:39

that's all you know. Right?

37:42

Right. If on the off chance

37:44

you get questioned. Right. Well

37:47

of course Ian was questioned and

37:50

that's when he was told for the

37:52

first time that night

37:54

that Fritz told him his mission

37:57

was to drive him and then

38:00

drop him off and come back while

38:02

he interrogated communists

38:05

from Central America who were stealing weapons

38:07

from the US arsenals and selling them

38:09

to buy drugs to sell at a

38:11

profit. He says when he learned that

38:14

was the mission, you know, he didn't

38:16

know anything about anybody getting

38:18

killed. He felt obligated. He

38:20

was like, okay. It appealed to his

38:23

patriotism. Yes. Okay. Okay,

38:26

so he learns about this and in-laws everything

38:28

he's he is in is shook when

38:31

he learned what he had actually driven

38:34

Fritz to do was kill family members

38:36

and slash

38:38

in-laws. Okay, which

38:41

is so weird because they're both right.

38:43

They're like in-laws of in-laws. They're like kind

38:46

of like well because they are his family

38:48

members and his in-laws. Gross.

38:52

Okay, so and

38:56

then he had a you know he had

38:58

reason to do it because they had he

39:00

had all this beef with them because they

39:02

wanted to get you know custody away from

39:04

him and Susie or whatever you know it's

39:06

good. Yeah and then he's learning

39:08

that by the way Susie is his first cousin

39:10

lover. He's like mind-blown.

39:14

Okay, okay, so upon

39:16

all this new information, Ian broke

39:18

down and told them everything he knew

39:21

and agreed to wear a wire while

39:24

he conversed about the tragic night

39:26

with Fritz. Police

39:28

wanted more to link Fritz

39:31

to the crime scene than just

39:33

Ian's confession about driving Fritz because

39:35

he hadn't actually seen anything you know and

39:38

not staying at the campsite all night. They

39:42

also wanted more solid evidence

39:44

so they have Ian wear a

39:46

wire and nervous young Ian had

39:49

to do it three times. He

39:52

kept like messing up. It's

39:55

like man the prices right? Just say 9.50.

40:00

I guess he kept asking he'd ask

40:02

the questions and then he'd answer Fritz's

40:04

question before they he Oh my god. Yeah,

40:06

it's like, oh, it's a nerve is the

40:09

nerve. Yeah Yeah

40:12

So the most that they

40:15

got out of Fritz when in was

40:17

wearing a wire was that he didn't

40:19

interrogate drug dealers that night He assassinated

40:21

them. Oh Okay.

40:24

Okay, but he's not saying it's like, you

40:26

know these other people it's not in-laws. Yeah.

40:29

Yeah He never copped to that They

40:32

found the gun shop where Fritz

40:34

had bought and sold something like

40:36

over a hundred guns that year

40:38

alone So

40:42

They were surveilling him with caution because

40:44

they assume, you know, he's got like

40:46

an art loaded. Yeah. Okay. Okay Now

40:49

I'm gonna backtrack for just a second. So

40:51

in the year between the murders of Tom's

40:53

family and Susie's

40:56

Fritz father the doctor

40:59

Passed away from a heart attack Okay,

41:02

so this led everybody to say

41:04

hey, when are you gonna, you

41:06

know be an official? MD

41:09

Fritz and He

41:11

said it was coming But

41:13

he had excuses why you

41:15

know Duke University didn't have their

41:18

shit together and hadn't filed the paperwork right

41:22

but turns out even Before

41:24

daddy died and people were like when are

41:26

you gonna become a doctor? um People

41:31

had called Fritz's father and informed

41:35

him that his son was not a

41:37

medical student and

41:39

he refused to Believe

41:41

it. Yeah, it turns out

41:44

Fritz never even graduated college And

41:47

of course, he never attended like a day of medical school

41:50

Right. It's not really that crazy. The

41:52

sky's like totally crazy himself. Yeah. Yeah

41:57

So the police have

41:59

now put together that Fritz is

42:02

a master manipulator whose lies are like

42:04

a house of cards crashing down around

42:06

him. That is a very dangerous scenario,

42:08

you know, when someone like that is

42:11

backed into a corner because you

42:13

already know there are no bounds

42:15

that will stop them from protecting their lies.

42:19

Which is why the

42:21

Winston-Salem police have received

42:23

criticism over the years for the following

42:26

events. They didn't attempt to

42:29

arrest Fritz until while

42:31

surveilling him, they saw

42:33

him loading up his vehicle with what

42:35

appeared to be and

42:37

was in fact many many

42:40

guns in addition to him,

42:43

Susie, and the

42:45

boys. He just put

42:47

everything into the Chevy Blazer that

42:49

he owned. And so

42:51

the assumption of course was, look

42:54

he's packing up, he's taking all of them with him,

42:56

he's he's gonna make a run for it.

42:58

You know, you got to get him now. Yeah,

43:01

so the criticism comes from the point of view that they

43:03

should have done it sooner because

43:05

they had enough on him already, or

43:07

at least waited until the boys

43:10

weren't with him. But

43:12

sadly the boys were with

43:14

him and Susie when the officers attempted to

43:16

pull Fritz over resulting in a chase. They

43:20

had initially tried blocking him in

43:22

at an intersection and Fritz,

43:25

you know, hung out the window and fired at

43:28

the officers with the machine done. Yeah,

43:32

the chase continued for around 30

43:34

minutes when Fritz all of the

43:36

sudden just stopped the vehicle. Officers

43:39

did not have much time to think about lies.

43:43

Which is why the

43:45

Winston-Salem police have received

43:47

criticism over the years for the following

43:50

events. They didn't attempt to

43:53

arrest Fritz until while

43:55

surveilling him, they saw him loading up

43:57

his vehicle with what appeared to be

43:59

a to be and

44:01

was in fact many, many

44:04

guns in addition to him, Susie,

44:06

and the boys. He

44:10

just put everything into the Chevy Blazer

44:13

that he owned. And

44:15

so the assumption of course was, look,

44:18

he's packing up, he's taking all of them with him,

44:20

he's going to make a run for it. You know, we got

44:22

to get him now. Yeah.

44:25

Yeah. So the criticism comes from the point

44:27

of view that they should have done it sooner because

44:29

they had enough on him already,

44:31

or at least waited until the

44:33

boys weren't with him. But

44:36

sadly the boys were with

44:38

him and Susie when the officers attempted to

44:40

pull Fritz over, resulting in a chase. They

44:44

had initially tried blocking him in

44:47

at an intersection and Fritz, you

44:50

know, hung out the window and fired at

44:52

the officers with the machine gun. Oh

44:54

my God, what a nut. Yeah. And

44:57

that continued for around 30 minutes when

44:59

Fritz all of the sudden just stopped

45:01

the vehicle. Officers

45:03

did not have much time to think about

45:05

how at this point they could

45:08

negotiate a surrender and get everyone out of

45:10

the vehicle safely because right before

45:12

their eyes, the Blazer blew

45:14

up in a fiery explosion.

45:19

Fritz had placed a bomb under Susie's

45:21

seat. And

45:24

so the senseless

45:26

killings ended in a senseless

45:28

murder suicide scene. Holy shit. That

45:31

guy is a nut. Susie

45:35

had no idea. No.

45:37

Right? Oh no, she knew. She

45:39

knew. Yes. Let me tell

45:42

you. Sadly,

45:45

some very shocking news came

45:48

out after the medical examiner's

45:50

report was released. It

45:52

wasn't the explosion that killed the boys.

45:55

They Both had lethal doses of cyanide

45:58

in their system and had. Then

46:00

shot to death. There was gunshot

46:02

residue. On Susie's hands and

46:04

so ah, signs point to

46:07

her been the one that

46:09

took the lives of her

46:11

own children. see the turned

46:13

psycho. I mean Swiss kind

46:15

of psycho all sick all

46:18

along. That fritz I think

46:20

just said elsewhere he oh

46:22

jack said in to it

46:24

yes. Sir Thomas said

46:26

that he knew she did it. Because.

46:29

Dance. Because. She

46:31

would rather kill them. That. In

46:33

have let her have. Let.

46:36

Him for yeah boys, Yeah. I.

46:39

Mean say we see that off center

46:41

on the time by now people that hate

46:43

their acts more. Than. They love their kids. Oh.

46:46

My god, it's an art.

46:48

Such a tragic story, man.

46:51

Yeah. So. The

46:54

tom also says you know they killed

46:56

him that day to it's just taken

46:58

him longer to die for Said. He

47:01

is still alive now and retired

47:04

from his dental practice and he

47:06

every his Switzer other Central assistant.

47:09

Know. I Okay, so

47:11

he. This is what

47:13

I'm pretty sure about. Based. On web

47:15

flu. same as a means for not like

47:18

one hundred percent, but pretty good. Like Ninety

47:20

Nine. He remarried

47:22

again after cathy. That

47:24

didn't work. Samurai take out them are? you

47:26

know it doesn't Always when you jump right

47:28

into another marissa like rebounds right? Okay, and

47:31

he's like anything. Probably. Have

47:33

better than Susie and the Enemy Be Didn't have

47:35

that much in common. But

47:38

his current wife has

47:41

grandchildren. So.

47:44

I'm thinking that you know?

47:47

Port. Hopefully poor time. You

47:50

know it, his heart shield a

47:52

little bit. You know by enjoying

47:54

his kind of like steps grandchildren.

47:57

Near. As

47:59

for. But yeah, no, I don't I don't

48:01

believe he went on to have more kids, but I'm

48:03

not 100 on that. Okay as for Ian Despite

48:08

his cooperation Remember the 21 year

48:10

old, you know, he was charged

48:12

for his role in the murders.

48:14

No way He

48:16

had to serve four months in prison.

48:18

I sort of get how it happened

48:20

because I mean,

48:22

it's Fritz

48:25

Susie the boys Tom's mom

48:27

and sister and then Fritz it

48:30

or Susie's, you know parents and grandmother. I

48:32

mean it's so many Murders

48:35

it's so hard to wrap your

48:37

head around that they and they

48:39

need someone to be accountable Yeah,

48:42

I mean it is but this poor guy

48:44

had no freaking idea I

48:46

mean he believed that this guy was CIA

48:48

agent like I know and And

48:52

He didn't do any he he did

48:55

not do anything like he wasn't like

48:57

pulling the trigger or you know Some

49:00

people were really like how? How

49:03

come not now? Yeah Yeah,

49:06

you're 21. I think you get

49:08

listen. I think there's a lot of 21 year

49:10

old guys. Yeah I mean

49:13

we dated a lot of them I

49:16

feel like I was more street smart than

49:18

that But I feel like a ton of

49:20

people would be like, oh my god, that

49:22

is so cool I want to have a

49:24

CIA also. Yeah. Yeah, and there was

49:26

no way you can check it out online See

49:28

if that guy's really telling the truth, right? And

49:32

also it's also kind of hard to believe that

49:34

somebody would go to such great lengths to lie

49:37

lie about that Yeah, totally. I think you

49:39

don't think somebody lies about that Yeah,

49:42

he wasn't the only person, you know that Fritz

49:44

had fooled he fooled a lot of people.

49:46

Yeah. Yeah, but four months Okay, fine. I

49:48

mean, okay not even a year. So

49:50

Ian was in the National Guard and He

49:54

was able to complete his service when he

49:56

was released. I read

49:59

an interview interview with him where they

50:01

said he said that they could have kicked him

50:03

out, but they didn't. And that is

50:05

not lost on him. And

50:07

went on to graduate college. And

50:09

in the article I found in the Greensboro Times

50:11

that came out in 2015 on the 30th anniversary

50:13

of the crimes,

50:15

Ian said, it is not easy to live

50:18

with the fact that I helped Fritz

50:20

kill three people. It seems like

50:22

a lifetime ago, but the universe gave me a

50:24

chance. And I've done my best to be worthy

50:26

of that chance. I

50:29

love that. I did too. Yeah. I

50:31

mean, he took this horrible thing that happened

50:33

and is like making the rest of

50:35

his life proud, right? Yeah. So

50:38

he has been married since 2001 and

50:41

has two sons. At one point he was

50:43

seeking a pardon so him and his wife

50:45

could adopt, but I don't think he was

50:47

given it. I think he deserves it. Yeah,

50:50

I did too. What do you think? I think that's what pardons

50:52

are for. Yeah, I think so also. Come on.

50:54

This guy is like doing good

50:56

in the world. Yeah. Yeah.

50:59

And you know, clearly the officers

51:01

knew that he'd been fooled. Yeah.

51:04

Come on. He deserves it for

51:06

sure. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

51:08

Well, thank you for that love story gone.

51:10

Yeah. You're welcome. Little twisty, journey.

51:13

Awful. I

51:15

told you, I warned. What year

51:17

did the explosion happen? 86.

51:20

86. Okay. Or

51:23

maybe 85. So the boys were 10 or

51:28

something. Yeah, maybe eight. How

51:30

sad. What an awful, awful story. Okay.

51:34

Well, if you want more stories, like I

51:36

said, go to patreon.com/out. So I have the

51:38

true crime. If you want really great

51:40

skin, you can go to five crimes. We

51:42

have the best stuff. Don't know if it

51:45

was this time or one of the

51:47

five times before this time that we tried

51:49

to record this episode. Um, but I was

51:51

saying that the smooth criminal on five crimes

51:54

is really amazing. It's making

51:56

my skin. So I put it on my face now.

51:58

You should. try

52:00

it too. And we have

52:02

merch and we are going

52:04

to CrimeCon you guys. So

52:06

please join us in Nashville,

52:08

Tennessee. Go to CrimeCon

52:10

and get your tickets now. Use our

52:12

code HOUSEWIVES and

52:14

you'll get 10% off your ticket and we will be

52:17

there. We will hang out with you. We

52:20

will be in the bar.

52:22

We will be on... I already got my boots.

52:24

I got a new boot. And

52:27

I just made a cowboy hat last

52:29

night at a birthday party and it is

52:32

so damn cute. I'm going to wear

52:34

it to Nashville. Can't

52:37

wait. So be

52:39

there or be square and

52:41

until Thursday for

52:43

Patreon or bonus episode or next

52:46

Monday. We'll see you then. Clink,

52:48

clink, clink,