0:02

Hi and welcome to Housewives

0:04

of True Crime. Welcome. Welcome.

0:07

I am Tabitha. Give me

0:10

Dateline, White Wine, and I'll pick up

0:12

your kids in the carpool line. The

0:14

next day, right? Yeah, the next day.

0:16

Okay. And I am Gretchen. I

0:19

like White Wine, True Crime,

0:21

and In Bed by 9 because I have a lot of stuff to do in the

0:25

morning. We are

0:28

Housewives of True Crime.

0:30

Yes we are. Yes

0:33

we are. Welcome. Welcome.

0:36

Housewives of True Crime. Welcome.

0:39

Housewives of True Crime. Up

0:41

in here. How

0:43

are you right now? I'm

0:55

good. I'm happy. Okay. I

0:58

was going to say something mean, but I won't

1:00

say it. Good for you. Well,

1:04

that was kind of a dig at you because you still have the phone.

1:07

I know. You guys. If

1:09

you listened on Thursday to our

1:12

Patreon or bonus episodes, which you

1:14

should be doing, you can subscribe

1:16

on Apple real easily to our

1:19

Clink Clink Club or

1:21

go to patreon.com for slash

1:23

Housewives of True Crime. But you

1:25

would know that I thought I had a

1:28

sinus infection at that point. Then

1:31

the very next day I text

1:34

to Gretchen, I'm going to urgent care

1:36

and turns out I have the

1:39

mother effing blue. Yeah.

1:41

Well, at least not COVID. I

1:44

think I already had that. I know. I

1:46

mean, it never ends. It's like, no,

1:48

it should. I think I've like checked off

1:50

all the boxes. February

1:53

is going to be a good month. Listen, you're going

1:55

to be out of it soon because I believe that

1:57

six season is. from

2:00

Halloween to Super Bowl. That's

2:03

sixth season. Then everybody starts

2:05

getting going on the up. You just

2:07

watch and see. All right, all right.

2:09

Okay, so we have a couple pieces

2:11

of business real quick and then my

2:13

case is pretty long. So we won't

2:16

probably chat too much unless you have

2:18

a lot to tell me. But CrimeCon,

2:20

you guys, we are going to CrimeCon

2:22

2024 and it

2:24

is in Nashville, Tennessee. So

2:28

that's a real good time. Be there or

2:30

be square, people. And I found

2:32

the code. So all

2:34

of you that wanna go, please go to CrimeCon and

2:39

put our promo code in of Housewives.

2:42

That will give you 10% off the

2:44

purchase of your ticket and

2:47

it'll also give us some credit for

2:49

getting you there, which is nice. I mean, we don't

2:51

make any money off of it, but at least they

2:54

know that we're bringing people in. So that would be

2:56

awesome. And

2:58

we seriously can't wait to see you there.

3:01

We spend a lot of time with whoever wants to spend a

3:03

lot of time with us. And we will meet

3:05

you in the bar and

3:07

we will have a cocktail and we'll

3:09

have a chat and we'll see you

3:11

on Podcast Row and we'll support you

3:14

through all of the amazing speeches

3:16

that they have and things that they have there. It's

3:19

a really awesome thing to go

3:21

to. It's true. So there's that.

3:23

And then second piece of business,

3:25

I wanted to tell you about

3:27

a podcast that long, long,

3:30

long ago we talked about because they started around

3:32

the same time that we started and we still

3:34

are loving them. And so we think you will

3:36

love them too. It's called

3:39

Crime Salad, which is kind

3:41

of a funny name actually, but

3:43

they are a good group. It's Ashley

3:45

and Ricky, their husband and wife. So

3:48

different than us, Gretchie, but Probably

3:50

a little married. Cause It feels like we are a little

3:52

bit of a team. I feel like I talked to you

3:54

more than my husband. I know I was thinking the same

3:57

thing. I was like, wait, their husband and wife and they

3:59

probably fight like. Yeah, but he has

4:01

to sell. Any, they dive into

4:03

some of the darker corners than

4:05

we do, I'm but they do

4:08

tell a good story. Their ultimate

4:10

goal is preventing future tragedies. Which.

4:13

I mean. God. Bless them.

4:15

I wish that we all could

4:17

prevent future tragedies. Also, at my

4:19

local Walmart? dude. Somebody.

4:21

Just fucking came to this person's front

4:23

door like that. past the another passenger,

4:25

their driver's door right when they got

4:27

in in try to open it and

4:30

she had thankfully lock the door before

4:32

she got in. And. Was

4:34

like he's like open your door. She was like

4:36

no and drove away. As. A

4:38

dude. Smart. thinking.

4:41

Yes, My again what am I with went. On

4:43

a walk. Real. Quick on

4:46

the walk in makes are you lock your door

4:48

you know the i don't know if the tesla

4:50

lox automatically and I can't figure it out and

4:52

hum has figured I'll stay because I always get

4:54

kinda nervous of that because in my it other

4:56

cards have always been able to lock right away

4:58

but. The. Sun and Link

5:00

that a law is not lock I'm

5:03

not sure. Crime Salad Go there are

5:05

you can get anywhere. We listen to

5:07

Ice I'm they're telling a story this

5:09

week as a disappearance of a child.

5:11

so they do talk about kids unlike

5:14

us and a been around since two

5:16

thousand and nineteen like us. so you

5:18

like him to come out. He's

5:21

okay. And then ah, what's up

5:23

in you know the woods? well,

5:26

you know, Crime Conscious around the

5:28

corner and you know what else

5:30

is around the corner And a

5:32

school. It was the one hundred

5:34

days of school. I saw that

5:36

it's all these people wearing like

5:38

Dalmatian costumes for one hundred and

5:41

one days and law stats. Killer.

5:43

Yeah, they dress is all people.

5:45

Yeah, my kids' school and so

5:47

my. daughter of course spring's this on

5:49

made the morning of our much oh

5:51

gosh okay let's let's fashion something i'm

5:53

actually pretty dot on abroad but i'm

5:55

pretty good enough situations by how i

5:57

like line of us saw it She

6:00

had like kind of a Shaw thing like that

6:02

she could wear and then I tied a like

6:05

kerchief like around her head

6:07

and like a low bun you know. But then

6:09

she needed a t-shirt to wear underneath and you

6:11

know what she picked? What?

6:13

One of my many Dolly Parton

6:16

t-shirts because she said Dolly Parton. People

6:18

listen to Dolly Parton. Young

6:20

people listen to Taylor Swift. Okay she's

6:22

getting it. You told me you

6:24

wanted her on the Taylor Swift bandwagon so she's

6:26

jumped right on. Mm-hmm.

6:29

I'm like okay, touche

6:31

child. Totally. She also

6:33

had a kind of a bit of a

6:36

breakdown this week at Jujitsu.

6:39

And I'm like oh my god. She's been, girlfriend

6:42

needed like a little lesson in being

6:44

a good sport and

6:46

she's made so much progress you know because she

6:48

gets her little butt kicked all the time and she

6:50

has to you know be respectful bow say you know

6:53

thanks. Thanks for kicking my ass. But

6:55

all of a sudden she's just like crying after

6:58

she got slammed. And

7:00

I'm thinking you know what gives?

7:02

Anyways the Jujitsu teacher came over to me

7:04

and said oh she's fine. She

7:06

told me she just has gas. That's

7:08

embarrassing. Oh my god. So

7:13

she's like you know it really it happens it happens

7:15

to all of us. So she's

7:18

like maybe a little be no so I just ordered

7:20

some. Oh. No gas

7:22

before. You have to figure out what

7:24

she's having gas at. Maybe she's allergic to

7:26

milk or something. You

7:29

shouldn't just have gas. It's not it's not normal.

7:31

Just let you know. I think you should start

7:33

like 14 times a day or something. No I

7:35

do not. I

7:37

don't like zero. Okay and her shit smells

7:39

like roses to you guys. It does. Yeah.

7:43

Okay. Alright. Okay

7:45

should we get started? Yes let's do that.

7:49

Okay. Alright.

7:52

This week's episode is brought

7:55

to you Gretchen and

7:57

everybody else listening. Bye everyone. Literally

8:01

everyone has texted us, wrote

8:03

on our group, been

8:06

obsessed with this Netflix documentary. Oh

8:09

yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've known

8:12

that I was going to, you

8:14

were gonna talk about this and everyone has

8:16

been coming up to me saying, oh, I have to

8:18

talk to you about this. You're like, don't. And I'm

8:20

like, no, you can't. And they really pisses them off.

8:22

I have lost some friends this week. You're

8:25

like, talk about it. Talk to me next

8:27

week because I will know all about it.

8:29

But after this, I do think that you

8:31

should watch it. I will. It's

8:34

three episodes. It's very fast. I'm going

8:36

to. While I clean my house, because despite

8:38

being healthy tab, my house has never

8:41

been set out of order. I just

8:43

want to throw you that bone. I feel yeah. Part

8:45

of me is still mind

8:47

boggled to my core that

8:50

this happened. But another part

8:52

of me understands a little bit

8:54

of how it happened. Just an incy

8:56

pincey piece of me. And you'll know

8:58

once I talk about it. And

9:01

after watching this Netflix documentary, I

9:03

needed to know more. So

9:06

I read the entire

9:08

book front to back, Grudgy.

9:12

Actually I look into it. But. I

9:15

love how we read a lot. But

9:18

I love how it is

9:20

like braggadocious to be like, I

9:23

read a book. Well,

9:25

I listened. Yeah. With

9:27

your eyeballs though. You didn't with your eyeballs. This

9:29

is a listening situation. I

9:31

listened with my ears. Okay.

9:34

In the car. Cause I can't. Okay. No,

9:38

I read my kids book keeps the

9:40

lost city with my eyeballs to him every night.

9:42

But I didn't have this book is like 20 plus

9:45

hours or something. I didn't know.

9:47

I just listened to a 20 hour book for called

9:49

Bitter Blood. Yeah. I

9:52

know that that's a long book. Yeah.

9:55

For research purposes. Yeah. So this

9:57

book is so good and listening to it. It's

10:00

really good also. It's really just, it's

10:02

good. So if you have any desire

10:04

to learn more, it's

10:07

called victim F and it's

10:09

worth a read. I actually cried at

10:11

the end. Oh, and

10:13

I'm very emotional. That's moving. I know. I'm

10:16

not a crier, which my daughter said the

10:18

other day too. And I'm like, Oh, she's

10:20

like me, which is kind of sad because

10:22

I wish she was more emotional. Okay.

10:25

So this is the case of

10:28

Denise Huskins and Erin Quinn, which

10:30

was dubbed the gone girl case

10:32

previous to Netflix's new name that

10:34

they named it American nightmare. And

10:38

a nightmare is really what it was real

10:40

quick. Before I begin, I just want to

10:42

say for those of you that watch the

10:44

Netflix documentary, you will still get a lot

10:46

out of this episode. Um,

10:48

cause like I said, I did a lot more research. And

10:51

if you have not watched the episodes, then

10:54

just get ready to be seriously pissed as

10:57

you will. Grudgy that

10:59

nightmare started on the very early

11:01

morning of March 23rd, 2015 in

11:04

a small town called the lay ho

11:06

in Northern California. Are you familiar with

11:08

this tune? It sounds, this is a

11:10

familiar sounding name. It's close

11:13

to San Francisco. 30 minutes from Napa

11:15

has a little bit of, not like

11:17

a bad rap, but somewhat of a

11:19

bad rap. Um, the city itself filed

11:22

for bankruptcy in 2008. It had some

11:24

military, I think sort

11:26

of, I

11:30

can't really remember. Sorry. I didn't write this down, but

11:32

it had some sort of business that ended

11:34

up going out of business, which kind

11:37

of funded all of their city.

11:39

And then once everybody left, it was kind

11:41

of like left to not die,

11:44

but figure out how to make money

11:46

again, you know? Right. And I think

11:48

it kind of has, because it's a

11:51

less expensive place to live. If

11:53

you work in Silicon Valley, like

11:55

you can commute. Okay.

11:57

And if I'm wrong, don't come at me because

11:59

it's so Somebody did that recently about how I

12:01

should have done more research on the fucking city

12:03

and listen, I don't... I

12:06

tell it how... It's not like we're telling you that

12:08

you were an expert. I'm not an expert on your

12:10

city. I'm sorry, I will be more

12:12

of an expert on the case than the city that

12:15

the case comes out of. But

12:17

anyways, this is Vallejo. Also, the

12:19

Zodiac Killer took some of its

12:21

victims from Vallejo, which maybe is

12:23

why you have heard

12:25

of it. Maybe that is why it sounds

12:28

familiar. Yeah. The Zodiac Killer

12:30

was also in Venetia, which is up there. Yes.

12:33

Yeah. And my husband works

12:35

there often. And it really

12:37

freaks me out. Yeah. Yeah.

12:40

Yeah. Well, police were

12:42

not able to solve the cases

12:45

from Vallejo from the Zodiac Killer,

12:47

which does not surprise me because

12:49

police are more

12:51

talk than action, or at least

12:53

before these recent times. And

12:55

the city has over 100,000 people living there.

12:59

And like I said, probably a lot of commuters. At

13:03

approximately three o'clock in

13:05

the morning, a couple, Erin Quinn

13:07

and Denise Huskins, were woken up

13:10

by bright lights, lasers, and

13:12

a gun pointed in their face. Grogi

13:15

and not fully aware what was going

13:17

on, or if they were dreaming, they

13:19

heard a voice say, wake

13:21

up. This is a robbery. I'm not going to

13:23

hurt you. Wake up. This

13:26

is a robbery. I'm not going to hurt you. Then

13:30

the intruder, once they

13:32

did wake up and decided that this

13:34

was actually not a dream, this

13:37

intruder made them lie down on

13:39

their bed, face down. Both Denise

13:41

and Erin obeyed him, did

13:43

exactly what he said. He

13:46

laid out zip ties and

13:48

forced Denise to tie Erin's hand

13:50

and feet together. Both

13:53

Denise and Erin did

13:55

exactly what the intruder instructed without

13:57

hesitation or resistance. They were both frozen.

13:59

frozen in fear. And

14:02

we talk about this a lot, Crutchy,

14:04

about how that

14:07

is probably not the right thing to do. But

14:09

maybe sometimes it is the right thing to do.

14:11

I don't know. It's like when I was listening

14:13

to this, I was like, dude,

14:18

I feel like I would not be

14:20

frozen in fear. But I think people

14:22

have different reactions when something

14:25

this dramatic happens to you. Oh,

14:27

yeah. I mean, I don't think you know exactly

14:29

what you would do until you're in that situation.

14:32

I mean, we always say don't go to the

14:34

second location. But I mean, if they're in your

14:36

house, I don't think it's the wrong decision to

14:38

cooperate. I mean, to cooperate, you just want to,

14:41

say, take my shit and leave. I know. So

14:43

I think that's what they did. Also, they were

14:45

when they looked up, they see a gun pointed

14:48

in their face, and they see all these lasers

14:50

around their bedroom. So that's like,

14:52

what the fuck is happening here, right?

14:54

Yeah. They just hoped that it was

14:56

true that it was a robbery. They

14:58

wouldn't be hurt. They're like,

15:00

take all my shit and spare our lives. But

15:04

this robbery was not like any other robbery

15:06

that I have ever heard of in real

15:08

life. This is more like some f'ed up

15:10

movie plot. From

15:12

here, the intruder moved Denise and Aaron

15:15

into a closet, where he

15:17

would put blacked out swim goggles over

15:19

their eyes to prevent them from seeing

15:22

anything. He then put

15:24

headphones on them with pre recorded

15:26

messages. The messages

15:28

were like told

15:31

in a robotic tone, similar to how

15:33

the intruder was talking to them. The

15:36

intruder told them that they would

15:38

be taking a sedative. And if

15:40

they disobeyed taking this orally,

15:42

he would give it

15:44

to them intravenously against their

15:46

will. So of course, they were

15:49

like, okay, we'll take it. I mean,

15:51

we have to take it one way or another, right? So we'll

15:53

just drink it. While the

15:55

two were bound and lying in the closet, they

15:57

would hear what sounded like people talking Green.

16:01

They. Can also hear footsteps. Going.

16:04

Up and down the stairs,

16:06

hammering down stairs while their

16:08

footsteps going upstairs and drilling.

16:11

They. Were still conscious through all of this?

16:13

that really kind of woozy from whatever

16:15

crazy cocktail they were given. After

16:17

a long while Aaron was move

16:20

downstairs. I. Can imagine

16:22

like most California houses and like master for

16:24

when you call it now. Call.

16:26

It the. Primary. Primary

16:29

Bedroom get mad at the snow

16:31

in a as like the in

16:33

California lotta times that Primary Bedroom

16:35

is upstairs. When in. Texas.

16:38

It's answer. So he's moving

16:40

the primary bedroom downstairs. He's

16:42

questioned by one of the

16:44

answers. In actually the

16:47

only intruder that ever talked. The.

16:49

Only heard the voice of one guy. He

16:52

questionnaire in about it's finances told

16:54

him about this group and their

16:56

mission and they were going to

16:58

collect around some for his girlfriend.

17:01

however the name that he said

17:03

it was not Denise. In

17:05

this book I told you called that the math

17:08

they called. They. Called this

17:10

girlfriend. Jennifer. So although it's

17:12

not her real name, I will also

17:14

call her Jennifer. Jennifer was not the

17:16

current girlfriend. nice obviously, but it was

17:18

his ex fiance. An

17:21

inform them that Jennifer actually moved

17:23

out not long ago. And

17:26

the intruder as if both women

17:28

looked alike and Aaron said, well,

17:30

yeah, they both have long blonde

17:33

hair The intruder was concerned. Like.

17:36

This. may have been a problem he

17:38

said you know this mission was

17:40

for jennifer not for denise so

17:42

he didn't know what to do

17:44

that is a problem it hit

17:47

this it is a problem with

17:49

if you're on a mentor a

17:51

lot i sold sounds like such

17:53

as around percent right sell for

17:55

over an hour at the sky

17:57

it would basically toxin am them

18:00

death and harm if the two

18:02

did not comply. The sicko talks

18:04

about how the group

18:06

at the house was trained. They were

18:09

military trained and police trained and they

18:11

knew all the tactics. He told them

18:13

that they were wearing wetsuits so

18:16

that they did not get their DNA

18:18

anywhere. And if they had to get

18:21

away via waterway, they

18:23

could, which I guess there's this

18:25

like mayor island in Vallejo

18:29

and that's where Aaron's house was.

18:32

So it seems like they were acutely

18:34

aware of how to get

18:36

away with a robbery. Well,

18:39

why are you telling people how you're going to get

18:41

away with it? I don't

18:43

know. Although I think it was his way of putting control

18:45

over Aaron.

18:52

Right. Okay. I'm going to tell you that

18:54

I'm military trained, that there's

18:57

not going to be any DNA. Stupid. Right.

18:59

Then you're also telling them you have a

19:01

military background. Like all these things are like

19:04

incriminating. True. Very.

19:06

Yeah. Listen to more true crime. This is him. So

19:09

while Aaron was downstairs on the couch, the

19:11

intruder told him that he was going to

19:13

be watched for days. They set up cameras,

19:16

blocked off space in Aaron's house where he was allowed

19:18

to walk, installed tracking software

19:20

on his phone and gave him a

19:22

portable charger of their own and

19:26

a list of instructions. They told Aaron that

19:28

if he did not comply with their instructions

19:30

completely, they would kill Denise.

19:32

As Denise was lying halfway conscious in

19:35

the closet, she too was being told

19:37

on the headphones ways to comply. And

19:39

if she didn't, she would be killed.

19:42

The recordings, like I said, were prerecorded

19:45

and they talked about Aaron using his

19:47

name, but Denise, they

19:51

had it prerecorded as Jennifer.

19:55

So clearly these people knew

19:58

Aaron and Jennifer had looked together,

20:00

they knew both of them

20:03

and somehow have been

20:06

in their house before. They knew what

20:08

bank Aaron banked with as

20:10

well as Jennifer. So Aaron thinks that

20:12

they had definitely been in the house

20:15

before he had thought for months that

20:17

somebody was creeping on him, but also

20:19

thought that maybe he was just paranoid.

20:21

As he was waiting for them

20:23

to get through the stuff, he just kept thinking

20:25

about like that one time he saw a drone

20:27

outside in his backyard, when he was coming home.

20:30

I think

20:32

like all of a sudden these things are like clicking

20:34

in his head, right? Like, Oh, yeah, I thought something

20:37

was here. But when I got home, it was here.

20:40

And then you kind of just dismiss

20:42

that because you don't want to say

20:44

like, I'm freaking crazy. This is really

20:46

happening, right? Yeah. So Aaron

20:48

was told to call out sick the

20:50

next day from work. And then he

20:53

was, they left Denise's phone

20:55

for him to call out sick for her

20:57

as well, instead to call out

20:59

sick for an entire week for Denise. Denise

21:02

and Aaron actually worked together. They both

21:05

were physical therapists at Kaiser. Denise was

21:07

in residency because she had just got

21:09

her doctorate in physical therapy. And Aaron

21:11

was a full time employee. And actually

21:14

Jennifer, the ex worked there as well.

21:17

How do you call for a whole week? You got to say you have

21:20

strep COVID the flu

21:23

more than the flu a whole week. You don't

21:26

know you might be better in three days. I

21:28

will know. I'm your boss. I'm like, get your

21:30

ass into work. Well, it's 24 hours fever free.

21:33

And so I don't have a fever today. I'm supposed to

21:35

be going to YouTube tomorrow. So I'm hoping the

21:39

24 hour fever free is happening. I have no

21:41

medicine today. So I'm going to check it out.

21:43

You can go back to work. It's true. Yes,

21:45

I know. You're working right now. True.

21:48

Okay. We're

21:51

going to YouTube tomorrow. So I'm

21:53

hoping the 24 hour fever free is happening. I

21:55

have no medicine today. So I'm going to check

21:57

out you can go back to work. It's It's

22:00

true, yes, I know. You're working right now.

22:03

It's true. Okay, at

22:05

least I work by myself. So they told

22:08

him that they would be communicating with him

22:10

via text and email with the next steps

22:12

and he was to go to his bank,

22:14

withdraw some money for the kidnappers in the

22:16

morning, into increments. They would be tracking his

22:18

every move. They let

22:20

him know again and again, he better

22:23

comply or Denise would be dead. So

22:26

he was told if he went to

22:28

the police, Denise would also die. After

22:31

about two hours of all this torture, the

22:33

intruder picked up Denise, telling

22:36

her that he would be keeping her

22:38

for 48 hours while Erin did all

22:40

these tasks. And if both

22:42

followed all commands, she would

22:44

be set free. She was then placed in

22:46

the trunk of Erin's car with a comforter

22:48

from Erin's bed and a bag of her

22:50

clothes. Denise stayed

22:53

quiet and emotionless and

22:55

did as the intruder said. At

22:58

one point, the intruder stopped Erin's

23:01

car to yell at her about

23:03

screaming, which she wasn't, but

23:05

it ended up being like the

23:08

steering wheel of Erin's car made some funky

23:10

noise. Then he

23:13

stopped in a parking lot and

23:15

switched her into another

23:17

car and

23:20

left Erin's car in this parking lot. In

23:23

this car, they drove four hours. Denise

23:27

would pass out on the drive from

23:29

those sedatives that they gave to

23:31

both of them. Erin too passed

23:33

out shortly after they left, but

23:35

not until he was able to remove

23:37

the swim goggles. When

23:40

Erin woke up hours later,

23:42

he was still bound with

23:44

the zip ties, but he was

23:46

able to get them off. He

23:48

saw a camera that hung in his living

23:50

room that was making a real loud sound.

23:53

There was tape around his living room

23:55

also, which was the designated area where

23:57

he was allowed to go. the

24:00

cell phones. He did as

24:02

he as these guys told him. He called out

24:04

sick for both him and Denise, and then he

24:06

was so out of it he fell asleep again.

24:09

He woke up at 11am, still groggy,

24:12

but now more with it, and

24:14

he saw an email from the kidnappers

24:16

with info on what to do about

24:18

getting the money. Not wanting to jeopardize

24:20

Denise's life, he responded to the kidnappers,

24:22

but when he didn't hear anything back

24:24

right away from them, he got really

24:26

nervous. So he decided

24:28

to call his brother who was in

24:30

the FBI. Oh,

24:33

that's convenient. It's very, yeah, you would

24:35

think it is convenient. And when I

24:37

get to more of the story, you're

24:39

going to be like, what the actual

24:41

F his brother told him, listen, dude,

24:44

you've got to call 911 because you

24:46

need more than me to figure this

24:48

out. You need like an army, right?

24:51

So he called 911,

24:53

like, very hesitantly. I don't

24:56

think that was a good idea. Do you

24:58

think his brother should have called 911? Yeah, I think

25:00

your brother sucks. The brother should have been like,

25:02

Oh, I'm going to use my FBI superpowers

25:04

and save you. I'm going to call 911.

25:06

You just do this to keep the situation

25:08

as safe as possible. I'm going to make

25:11

this happen. Yeah, I don't

25:13

know why his brother didn't call 911. I

25:15

know his brother was at work at the

25:18

time, because I think he had, I feel

25:20

like you can, you get a

25:22

pass if somebody in your family is being held hostage. Totally.

25:24

I know, right? He I know he had

25:27

to call his brother's wife or girlfriend in

25:29

the book, it tells you more to then

25:31

call the brother and be like, dude,

25:33

answer your brother's phone because he's

25:36

in distress. Like he needs some help.

25:38

Yeah. But anyways, he did call 911.

25:40

And I will play you the 911

25:42

call right here. Emergency.

25:47

Yeah, my girlfriend got kidnapped last

25:49

night. What do you mean she

25:51

got kidnapped? She's in her house.

25:55

And you get all off-site in the security.

26:01

What time did you get outside, sir? Morning.

26:05

What's your girlfriend's name? Lee.

26:07

What is your name? Aaron. Okay, I've got

26:10

the calling for service. We're getting officers on the

26:12

way. Okay, so

26:14

police show up right away and

26:17

they ask Aaron if he is

26:19

on drugs because this sounds like

26:22

weird. Yeah. He's

26:24

like, my girlfriend's been kidnapped and

26:26

they're like, are you on drugs? And

26:28

he replies, yes. Yeah, I am actually

26:31

on drugs because the kidnappers had drug

26:33

him. They initially asked him a few

26:35

questions. They unplugged the camera. They

26:38

looked at him like he was out of his mind.

26:41

They questioned a recycle pile that he had.

26:43

He had like a little recycle pile of

26:45

cans of beers and two glasses of

26:48

wine in the sink from the night before from him

26:50

and Denise. And he kind of told

26:52

them, that's my recycling. And yes, Denise and I

26:54

had some wine. They asked

26:56

him to then come down to the station

26:58

and he was excited to do so. I

27:00

mean, he was going to give

27:02

filet-ho-pede every detail that he could remember. Aaron

27:06

recounted his story about his girlfriend being

27:08

kidnapped after this

27:10

group of what he kind of

27:12

thought was like nerdy texts, the way that they

27:14

were like talking, you know, they came in

27:16

and what suits, they intimidated them with guns and

27:19

lasers and tasers, tied them

27:21

up with zip ties, blacked out their eyes

27:23

with swim goggles. They worked

27:25

on outfitting his house for hours

27:27

and his phone with technology. And

27:30

then they left taking Denise with them. They

27:33

asked him why he waited to call 911

27:36

for over six hours. And

27:39

to which he replied, and actually I think it

27:41

was more like 12 hours to which he replied

27:43

that he was scared that they were going

27:45

to do what they said they were

27:47

going to do to Denise that they were going to kill her. And

27:50

he also said it was also because I had

27:52

some crazy concoction that like totally made me out

27:54

of it. And

27:57

guess what the detectives thought

27:59

that he's full of shit. because

28:03

the story sounds

28:06

so far-fetched. Yeah,

28:09

like I was telling my husband the story and

28:12

he's like, he killed her. And

28:15

that's why a little part of me is like,

28:19

I can see how this happened because

28:21

it sounds so crazy.

28:24

Yeah, but I feel like things

28:26

that need to be taken into consideration are like,

28:30

does he have a record?

28:32

Like, does he have a record of

28:34

like, abusing drugs? Does he have mental

28:36

health issues that you know, like, is

28:38

he on something for that?

28:41

I mean, it sounds like he's physical therapist, like

28:43

he's holding down a good job. I mean,

28:45

that should like give him some credibility. This

28:48

is all true. This is all 100% true, but it

28:51

didn't. So these, these

28:55

police officers, they questioned him. They

28:57

questioned him first on if Denise

28:59

and him were on the rocks.

29:01

And Aaron told the truth. They

29:03

kind of were that very night. Denise

29:05

said, you should always tell the truth about

29:09

the status of your relationship because it will come out.

29:11

True. True. But you

29:14

should probably get a lawyer,

29:18

which is what he would tell you to

29:20

this day is that he needed

29:22

to get an attorney sooner. But that night

29:24

they did like Denise had come over to

29:26

his house because she

29:28

had found out that he still was communicating

29:31

with his ex Jennifer. And

29:33

she was like, a few, you know, like, if

29:35

you're going to move forward with me, it's going

29:37

to be me and you need to like let

29:39

her go. And this is what they had a

29:41

conversation about that very night. And

29:44

they had come to terms like, yes, Aaron

29:46

was like going to fully commit to Denise

29:48

and he was over his ex

29:51

Aaron also told the

29:54

police that his ex had an affair

29:56

with a police officer for

29:59

two years. while they were

30:01

together. And she also dated an

30:03

FBI agent at one point. He

30:06

told them that the two of them decided

30:08

to move forward. They went to bed super

30:10

happy. But none of that

30:12

obviously sat well with the investigators and they

30:15

made him take a polygraph test, which he

30:17

was also happy to do. But as soon

30:19

as he finished it, they told him he

30:21

failed. Were they lying? Yeah. Also,

30:24

I don't, I really don't get the like having an

30:26

affair with two years if you're not married and you

30:28

don't have kids. Yeah, why do

30:30

you have to care? Yeah, fuck, just leave. I

30:32

know. I think that's one of those like

30:35

tick a ticky, you know, you got

30:37

something wrong with you because you just

30:39

are hot for it being wrong. True.

30:43

Yeah. Or maybe the police officer

30:45

was married and he couldn't leave. So she's like,

30:47

I'm not leaving until you leave kind of thing.

30:49

I don't know. For the next 12 hours, basically,

30:54

they tore Aaron down telling him that

30:56

he killed Denise and he needed to

30:58

come clean. They tore him down

31:00

so much where he's like, fuck, did I have

31:02

like a psychotic episode and like, make

31:04

this shit up? You know, like, I think you can

31:06

be beaten down. But thankfully, like

31:09

he didn't, they wouldn't let him talk to

31:11

his brother who was there at the police

31:13

station or his mom. And they just kept

31:15

telling him that he was lying no matter

31:17

what he said, like, Hey, go

31:19

to my house. Check if

31:21

there's cameras up there. Check if they did all

31:24

this stuff. Check my phone. They

31:26

emailed me. I emailed them back.

31:28

Check that. Like check where

31:31

that IP address came from. Where did this

31:33

email come from? How could I have done

31:35

that? They didn't and they broke him

31:37

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31:39

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31:41

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35:07

as soon as he did that, of course, the

35:09

attorney comes in, sees that they have nothing to

35:11

detain him and they were like, if you don't

35:13

have anything, we're out of here. They

35:16

let him out. Shortly after

35:18

he was released, a

35:20

local paper was sent a proof

35:22

of life recording from Denise or

35:25

of Denise, not from Denise, but from the kidnappers,

35:27

but of Denise. It was

35:29

Denise's voice stating that she had been kidnapped, but

35:31

other than that, she was alive. And

35:35

then she states some facts about like something that

35:37

happened in the news that day so that they

35:39

knew it was like, yeah, girl. Her

35:42

voice was super monotone and emotionless. But

35:44

this was great news.

35:46

I mean, for Denise's parents who

35:48

at this point were being told that Aaron had

35:50

killed her and they're looking for

35:52

Denise's body, this is a dream come

35:54

true. Their daughter is alive. And for

35:56

Aaron, it should have cleared his name.

36:00

Right, but the Vallejo PD,

36:03

I mean they didn't care they

36:05

had to get the FBI involved now because

36:07

it was a kidnapping case and For

36:11

this Aaron's brother is like super relieved. He's

36:13

like, okay, you know now the FBI is

36:15

involved. This is going places Denise

36:17

is alive. This is crazy. But

36:19

you know We're gonna

36:21

we're gonna find her the Vallejo PD

36:24

Instead of trying to find an alive

36:26

person. They still sent their searchers to

36:28

search waterways for Denise's body which

36:32

is like Mind boggling

36:34

to me, you know, we're

36:36

gonna we're gonna find her the Vallejo

36:38

PD Instead of trying to

36:41

find an alive person. They still sent

36:43

their searchers to search waterways for Denise's

36:45

body Which is

36:47

like Mind-boggling to

36:49

me. Yeah And what

36:52

they were not searching was Aaron's phone

36:54

Aaron's emails Tracing the

36:56

recordings doing anything that

36:58

would actually lead to Denise. Actually

37:00

the police put Aaron's phone on

37:03

airplane mode Preventing

37:05

three traceable calls that came

37:08

in from the kidnappers To

37:10

be seen Aaron actually saw these after

37:12

the police had him come back to

37:15

the station To send

37:17

the kidnappers a message once they got that proof

37:19

of life. They were like, hey come back to

37:21

the station we want to talk to you again,

37:23

maybe you can send the kidnappers a message and

37:26

So he was like dude my phone's on airplane mode.

37:29

What the fuck? Once he

37:31

turned it off airplane mode those three calls

37:33

had come in Alright, so

37:35

for those 18 hours Aaron was getting

37:37

blasted by the police Denise was being

37:39

held captive with one of the intruders

37:42

This guy kept Denise pretty drugged which she

37:44

was thankful for as the terror she was

37:46

facing was pretty unfathomable I mean, can

37:48

you imagine like it is? crazy

37:51

to think that Somebody

37:54

would take you and you don't know what the heck's

37:56

going on Also, they kept those swim goggles On her

37:58

the entire time. So She had like. Could.

38:00

Not see anything. I

38:02

have. The. Whole time she thought like

38:04

this or that. The kidnapper

38:06

talk to her told her if she did

38:09

what she. What? He said that

38:11

her life it's be spared. So she did.

38:13

He kept a watchful eye on her most

38:15

said the time He did let her shower.

38:18

Ah, I'm. And. Go to the bathroom.

38:21

But. Other than being in the bathroom

38:23

and being able to do those things

38:26

like he was, he was watching her,

38:28

He talked about the organization that he

38:30

was in and that he was put

38:33

in charge of this mission for errands

38:35

acts and he might be in trouble

38:37

because he actually took her. At.

38:40

One point, he told her he must

38:42

have sex with her. Ah,

38:44

On video for collateral if the mission

38:46

sailed. okay, that's what you are. Take

38:48

a shower, Because

38:51

he was enough sex other. Yeah.

38:54

I would not be begging for a shower. First.

38:56

Of all, I feel like you're in the

38:58

shower than your real naked in phone or

39:00

of and it's already crazy like a.not working

39:03

for me. Also, I feel like it's a

39:05

good time to leave your dirty ass Dna

39:07

as much anger beyond everywhere. Yeah, Yeah.

39:11

She did have a shower like multiple. Times.

39:15

And. By yes, so he has

39:17

her shower and then he says he

39:20

needs to have sex with her on

39:22

video for collateral. Their mission failed and

39:24

In needed to look consensual and that

39:26

crestor I mean from the inside out.

39:28

As you know, she obviously nobody fucking

39:30

wants to do that, but she's gonna

39:32

do it because she's like. If

39:35

this is what I have to do to get outta

39:37

here, told me I'm leaving them forty hours. let's go.

39:39

You know she did it. And. Then despite

39:41

came back the very next day

39:43

and told her that his boss

39:45

didn't like the video. And

39:48

it needed to be more believable. He

39:51

told her that he was sorry that

39:53

he had to do this again, but.

39:56

He. Must do it In this time

39:58

he would tape. it but

40:00

without the goggles, he

40:02

would just put packing

40:04

tape over her eyes so that it looked

40:06

more believable. Like she just had her eyes

40:08

closed. And Denise obliged again,

40:11

giving like a

40:13

piece of her soul to this dirt bag. She

40:16

did exactly what he said in hopes

40:18

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40:20

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42:38

love that is super fun. It's like

42:40

the Emperor interior style. Awesome stuff.

42:42

I mean I love it too. Has

42:45

said I like the panelists and kind

42:47

of fargo they have it all.

42:49

The also has issued is hanging share

42:51

that I go for my daughter and

42:54

it was not expensive. It was

42:56

very reasonably priced so go to Home

42:58

thread. Com Forward/clean Leaks

43:00

rebooted Sat specific. You

43:03

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order on third. Love where you live.

43:12

At. Arizona State University. We made online

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education better, smarter and the Apostle last

43:16

so you can go first responding sealed.

43:19

I. Decided to pursue Madison once I

43:21

realized that as he did have

43:23

the online program for biological sciences,

43:25

they're still required to learn the

43:27

same curriculum years still being tested

43:29

on the same content that anyone

43:31

would be tested on in person.

43:33

That comprehensiveness of the program prepared

43:35

me so offer medical school. Skill.

43:38

As a three hundred progress and he has

43:40

your mind.a Us you.e D. And

43:43

then at the second I closed and the kidnapper told

43:45

the nice that he was going to let her go.

43:48

He said he would drive her nine hours

43:51

away to her home town of Huntington Beach.

43:54

Near. You Gretzky! You

43:56

know what is weird? What you meant

43:58

is. Where sherry? was

44:01

when she said she was kidnapped

44:03

and she was not. I

44:05

know what year was Sherry Papini

44:08

supposedly kidnapped? Like 2005, I think?

44:12

Yeah, it was before. This is 2015, I thought so too.

44:15

I think they thought this was more, and

44:17

remember we never knew if Sherry Papini until

44:19

recently was a hoax.

44:22

But I do think that Sherry

44:25

Papini did not help Denise. Yeah,

44:30

because it was such a weird thing. Yeah,

44:34

well it sounds like even though they suspected

44:36

Sherry Papini was full of shit from the

44:38

get, but at least they investigated. Yes, yes,

44:40

true. If they investigated just a little bit

44:42

of this case, they would have known that,

44:45

it was true. So

44:47

he didn't want to drive her back to

44:49

Vallejo because he knew that there was so

44:51

much police presence and that people knew. So

44:53

he would drive very, very, very early in

44:55

the morning, nine hours to

44:58

Huntington Beach. He let her

45:00

this time sit in the car without the

45:02

goggles but tape on her eyes and she

45:04

was hopeful. She was like, okay, let's do

45:06

this. I mean, she did think for a

45:08

second, like this guy could be taking me

45:10

to the middle of nowhere and like offing

45:12

me and I would have no idea. But

45:14

after nine hours, they came to a stop

45:17

where Denise was instructed to get out of

45:19

the car, stand until

45:21

she heard the car pull away

45:23

and then count to 10. At this time, she

45:26

was able to remove the tape from her eyes and

45:29

she saw he sat a bag of her

45:31

things next to her in the middle of

45:33

an alleyway next to her mom's house. Wow.

45:37

So she was alive and she was free. She

45:40

was broken, but she was free. So

45:42

she walked to her mom's house, but there's

45:44

no one there. So she found a stranger,

45:47

she called her dad, no answer, left a

45:49

message, then walked to her dad's house, which

45:52

was not far away. He lived in

45:54

an apartment complex. She

45:56

knocked on his door, but they're both

45:58

up north looking for her. You know, so a

46:01

neighbor came out of the apartment next tour

46:03

and said, Oh, your dad is looking for

46:05

your sister. He's up north. And she was

46:08

like, he's looking for me. Yeah.

46:10

Makes me so sad, man. Yeah. Okay.

46:14

So then she brought her inside and she called

46:16

911 and the Huntington police rushed like straight over.

46:19

As soon as the police got there, she

46:22

recounted her 48 hours, except for two

46:24

details. They

46:27

asked her if she was sexually assaulted and she

46:29

said no. The kidnapper told

46:31

her that if he, if she knew she was

46:33

going to talk to the police and he said,

46:36

if you tell them one or

46:38

two or either of these two things, then

46:40

I will come back and I will hurt your family

46:42

and I will hurt you. And

46:45

he said, if you tell them that you were

46:47

sexually assaulted or that I was in the military.

46:50

And so she didn't initially say it.

46:53

And I can also understand why dude,

46:55

these people are so mindful. Yeah. Yes.

46:58

Yes. Huntington beach police, of course,

47:00

called Vallejo PD right away. And

47:04

when everybody should be like so joyous and happy,

47:06

Denise could feel

47:08

something immediately was off. The

47:11

police were not treating her as a

47:13

victim and she could

47:15

feel it right away. Her

47:18

like extended family had come over. One of

47:20

them was an attorney or a new attorney

47:23

and like her cousin and her aunt and

47:26

she could just tell the way that they were

47:28

questioning her after they talked to the Vallejo PD

47:30

that something wasn't right.

47:32

They initially said, Hey, we have an

47:34

FBI plane that you can get on

47:36

to take you back

47:38

up to Vallejo and

47:41

her cousin was like, we're

47:44

going to find an attorney and we're going to talk

47:46

to somebody first before we just throw ourselves

47:49

in, in this, you know? And

47:52

that was smart. Yeah. So once

47:55

she got up to Vallejo, she was

47:57

questioned by FBI up there. and

48:00

to police and they basically told her

48:02

that whoever confessed

48:05

first between her

48:07

and Erin, they would give immunity.

48:09

They didn't believe her. They thought

48:11

that she faked her own kidnapping.

48:14

Then, Cretchy, the same day

48:17

that she was released, the same

48:19

day they're questioning her, this Vallejo

48:21

PD decides to put out a press

48:24

conference hosted

48:26

by Lieutenant Kenny Park of

48:28

Vallejo PD. And

48:31

this is what he said, Mr.

48:34

Quinn and Ms. Huskins have plundered

48:36

valuable resources away from our community

48:38

and taken the focus away from

48:40

the true victims of our community

48:42

while instilling fear among our

48:44

community members. So if anything, it is

48:47

Mr. Quinn and Ms. Huskins that owes

48:49

this community an apology. He was adamant

48:52

that it was all a hoax. And

48:54

guess what? The media ran with it.

48:56

This would be the beginning of hell

48:58

that these two would ruin your life.

49:02

They did ruin their life. Both

49:05

Denise and Erin would be broken down so

49:07

hard before they were even able to see

49:09

each other because basically what they told him

49:11

that told them that they were going to

49:14

charge them for creating this crazy hoax. And

49:17

they couldn't see each other until after

49:20

the trial. Like if they were charged with

49:22

this, they would not

49:24

be able to speak to each other or see each

49:26

other until their trials were

49:28

over. And if they were found guilty,

49:30

they'd never be able to see each other. So they

49:34

were forced to

49:36

become suspects far before they were even

49:38

really victims. And

49:40

quite honestly, the Vallejo PD never

49:43

did look into if

49:45

they were actually real victims. They

49:47

never did any research. They made

49:50

up their mind when Erin called

49:52

911 that it wasn't real. They interrogated

49:55

both of them again for hours.

49:58

But this time they both had lawyers. which

50:00

were real expensive, unfortunately,

50:03

but they both needed they both

50:05

needed lawyers. And they both

50:07

were not lying. It didn't

50:09

matter how much truth these

50:12

two were telling to the

50:14

public, Aaron and Denise were hoaxers. Then

50:17

the Daily Chronicle was sent

50:19

another email from the

50:21

kidnappers. It was a 19 page

50:24

manifesto describing in detail what

50:26

happened with the request

50:29

of them apologizing for blaming

50:31

the victims. But

50:35

that didn't even make the police budge.

50:37

Denise and Aaron would endure months and

50:39

months of scrutiny. The media and the

50:42

police dubbed Denise as the Gone Girl.

50:44

That's why I was telling you that

50:47

was what it was called at first. And

50:49

do you remember that movie? I do. It

50:52

was like it's been a long time.

50:54

It was about a woman that faked

50:56

her own kidnapping. And she like, it

50:59

was I can't remember it too much either.

51:01

But her, her husband was cheating on her.

51:03

So then she faked her own kidnapping

51:05

to get back at him. Yeah, that's

51:07

mean. Even

51:11

if he is a cheater cheater pumpkin eater. I

51:14

know. It's kind of a good, a

51:17

good plot of a good plot

51:19

for a movie. Yeah. No, the

51:22

real way to handle that is

51:24

hide your assets. Start

51:26

plotting. Yeah.

51:28

Kidnapping is money, not your person. Yeah.

51:30

You're a fraudster. Okay. Police, like I

51:32

said, never focused on any of the

51:35

facts. They were solely focused on burning

51:37

Aaron and Denise. And allegedly one of

51:39

the detectives, detective mustard is his name,

51:42

which makes me think of Colonel mustard

51:44

every time I say it. He was

51:46

reportedly being said, burn that bitch

51:48

about Denise the day that she came back.

51:50

That they would try to do sad fact

51:52

of the matter is what they

51:55

said really did happen. Denise

51:57

would be eaten alive by the media.

52:00

online threads and even strangers on Facebook.

52:02

I mean, we've talked about it before,

52:04

like even last episode that

52:06

I did about how Facebook is

52:08

so crazy. Well, listen, people went

52:11

freaking nuts creating boards and just

52:14

being like, you know, like

52:17

psychos on Facebook, they would

52:19

write her strangers put on

52:21

Facebook to her like private messages

52:23

about how she was to go to hell,

52:26

calling her a cunt, telling her she

52:29

was the worst thing on the

52:31

face of the earth. And in her book,

52:33

she recounts like all these Facebook messages, like

52:36

verbatim. And I mean, I just like,

52:38

this is why I cried because it's

52:40

so incredibly sad that these two went

52:43

through this, this

52:45

crazy 48 hours of

52:48

being held hostage and

52:50

raped. She wouldn't even call

52:52

it rape for a while. Finally,

52:54

Erin's like, he fucking raped you. She

52:57

was like, yeah, he did.

52:59

Like, you know, like, yeah, they just,

53:01

this guy, mine fucked them, like, so

53:03

bad. And he probably knew how to

53:05

do it because he was in the

53:07

military, you know? Yeah. So

53:11

as time passed, you know, media

53:14

kind of trickle, they try to get their life

53:16

back in order. And reading their book

53:18

also kind of gave me a perspective of

53:20

like what victims really go through. They had

53:23

night terrors, they woke up at 3am. Like

53:25

every night, they still say they do. They

53:27

also had the fear of going to jail.

53:30

Like, yeah, they, you know, if

53:32

they made their mind up that they wanted to

53:34

like, take them to jail

53:36

and be wrongfully convicted, that was definitely like, in

53:39

the back of their mind always. Also

53:41

that these guys were still at large. They

53:44

went to the police, they told them she eventually

53:46

did tell them that she was raped. She

53:48

eventually did do all that, you know, all the

53:51

testing and stuff to be raped, which, by

53:53

the way, they also were like, yeah, you don't

53:56

have signs of being raped. Well, she's like, he

53:58

wore a condom. She told them that. He

54:00

said that he was no more a condom and he

54:02

did and just because you don't

54:04

like Have bruising

54:06

and cuts and shit like Doesn't

54:09

mean that somebody didn't sexually assault you you

54:12

know Denise went through

54:14

a ton of anxiety and depression. She

54:16

went to therapy. She lost some friends

54:19

She was constantly looking over her shoulder. She

54:21

couldn't go back to work for a long

54:23

time But these two they stuck

54:25

it out together being with one another I think

54:27

really kind of helped them get through the nightmare

54:31

They knew that Vallejo PD were gonna

54:33

do nothing about their case. So They

54:36

were like we got to move we

54:38

can't we can't love you. I'd be terrified

54:40

to stay there Yeah at one point the

54:42

kidnapper actually told Denise that he didn't like

54:45

what he was doing And he

54:47

didn't like being part of this organization any

54:49

longer and regretted what he was doing and

54:51

he had remorse for it So I

54:54

think partly in the back of her mind She

54:56

was hoping you know that he didn't strike

54:58

again or wouldn't come after her but

55:02

like we know crunchy creeps be creeps

55:04

and Just months

55:06

later another home invasion would occur

55:09

This one was about an hour south

55:11

of Vallejo on a city called Dublin

55:14

Familiar with that city. No only the

55:16

Irish one. I know okay,

55:18

so this man entered a home

55:20

and Surprised a couple in the

55:22

middle of the night as and then

55:25

as he was tying the wife up with

55:27

zip ties The husband

55:29

lunged at the intruder The

55:31

intruder then hit the husband with like

55:34

a flashlight and fled But

55:37

this time he left a cell phone behind

55:40

When the Dublin PD were called they

55:42

were able to find this guy pretty

55:44

quickly They traced the phone

55:46

back to its owner who was a woman

55:49

who said oh, it's actually my adult son's

55:51

phone and They said

55:53

oh, you know, where is your adult son? And she

55:55

said, oh, you know, he stays at my Lake Tahoe

55:58

house and And he

56:00

actually did tell me that he lost his phone

56:02

yesterday. They said, great,

56:04

where's the address? We're going to bring it

56:06

to him. And

56:08

they acted real swiftly. And

56:12

they went to the Tahoe house and they

56:14

surprised this perpetrator. And

56:17

they're real smart, you know, don't tell the lady

56:19

that he's in trouble. Just go

56:21

get him. And when

56:23

they got there, they were greeted

56:25

by a former Marine, Harvard law

56:28

educated, former attorney named

56:30

Matthew Mueller. There was one officer

56:32

put on the case who according

56:34

to the ABC News 7 was

56:36

just days away from being a

56:38

detective. And her name was Misty

56:40

Caruso. Officer Caruso

56:42

was one of the

56:44

people in charge of the search and seizure

56:46

of evidence in this Lake Tahoe house. This

56:49

is what they seized. Tasers,

56:52

lasers, laptop, cell phones,

56:54

ski masks, makeshift

56:57

water guns to look like real

56:59

guns with these laser pointers

57:01

attached to these like water guns. They

57:04

found a blow up doll wrapped in wire.

57:07

They found tape recordings of white

57:10

noise and whispers. And

57:12

she also found blacked out

57:14

swim goggles. One

57:17

with a long blonde hair attached to

57:19

it. And

57:21

this is when it hit officer Caruso

57:24

that this wasn't his first rodeo.

57:27

There were no blonde victims in the Dublin

57:29

incident and love a

57:32

lady detective dude, me too, because

57:34

this fucking mustard dude and all

57:36

those guys in Vallejo, they didn't

57:38

give a shit, right? But

57:41

this woman was like, this guy's a

57:43

creep and I'm going to get him.

57:45

And she fricking did dude. She knew

57:47

that it wasn't his first rodeo. There's

57:49

too much stuff all over this guy's

57:51

house that screams like

57:54

you're a bad guy. Yeah. The car

57:56

that they also found Matthew driving

57:58

was stolen. vehicle. It was

58:00

a white Ford Mustang, which

58:03

is actually what Denise thought he was driving. She

58:05

said she could see like a little bit of

58:08

white out of the goggle. And when she was

58:10

getting in the car, she said the way

58:12

that she sounded in the

58:14

trunk was like, she

58:16

said she described it as a

58:18

sports car, maybe a Mustang. That's

58:20

what she said. And this car

58:22

had actually been stolen from

58:25

in the car. She said the way that she

58:28

it sounded in the trunk was like,

58:31

she said she described it as

58:33

a sports car, maybe a Mustang.

58:35

That's what she said. And this

58:37

car had actually been stolen from

58:40

Merritt Island where they lived right around

58:42

the time of this abduction. So had

58:44

they even looked into white Mustang,

58:47

put it in

58:49

their database, they would have seen that it was like

58:51

a stolen vehicle, right? I mean, all

58:53

these things, there's so many things. Carisou

58:55

had some work to do to figure

58:57

out if Matthew's crime had other crimes,

59:00

because obviously Dublin is an hour away

59:02

from Vallejo. And

59:04

it's been months since the incident. But

59:07

sure enough, when she put in his name,

59:09

a few other incidents around the Bay

59:11

Area came up, one in Mountain View

59:13

and one in Palo Alto for possible

59:16

home invasions and threatening

59:18

rape to victims. When she questioned

59:20

the car owner also, he said,

59:23

you know, there was a gone girl

59:26

case when my car

59:28

was taken. And Carisou

59:31

remember this gone girl hoaxer

59:33

and looked it up. And

59:35

this evidence kept piling up right like

59:37

the car, the blonde hair,

59:39

the hoaxer had blonde hair.

59:41

And then she looked up the GPS from

59:44

the car and all the coordinates from

59:46

the parking lot of Aaron's car

59:48

to Tahoe to Huntington Beach all

59:50

was on the car's GPS. They

59:54

also found Aaron's laptop in

59:57

his possession crew so called the Vallejo

59:59

PD. and

1:00:02

she got no answer and

1:00:05

she called again and again and again

1:00:07

until finally somebody returned her call. And

1:00:12

listen, I don't usually like talking bad about

1:00:14

law enforcement. I'm typically for the law, but

1:00:17

dude, when bad cops are bad cops, like

1:00:21

it doesn't matter what the profession is.

1:00:23

There's bad, there's a bad apple in

1:00:25

every bunch. Yeah. But sometimes

1:00:27

also bad apples are

1:00:29

covered, covered up by good apples, right?

1:00:31

Because especially in law enforcement, I think

1:00:34

it's really hard to be

1:00:36

a good apple. And actually like, I won't get

1:00:38

into it, but even in Vallejo, there's a guy

1:00:40

that got, I think let

1:00:43

go after many years because he

1:00:45

was a good apple and kind of went

1:00:47

against these bad apples. It's a lot

1:00:49

of corruption in that Vallejo PD department.

1:00:51

Yeah. But they eventually answered Cruz's call

1:00:53

and directed her to the FBI and

1:00:55

the case was taken over from there.

1:00:57

There were statements issued to the media

1:00:59

to discuss the arrest of Mueller and

1:01:01

they reached out to Denise and they

1:01:03

asked her if she would like to

1:01:05

be named in this statement.

1:01:09

And she said, yes, like put

1:01:11

my name in the paper. Like I

1:01:13

am the one and you guys all

1:01:15

fucked up. This really happened. This is

1:01:17

the guy because it's sexual assault case.

1:01:19

Mostly they don't, you know, they

1:01:21

don't put their names in there, but she was like, no,

1:01:24

put my name in these assholes still

1:01:26

didn't put her name in the power.

1:01:28

Oh my gosh. They called her victim

1:01:30

F which is what her books called.

1:01:32

So she says even to this day and probably not

1:01:34

anymore because of the Netflix documentary, but she said in

1:01:36

her book, which came out, I think in 2020 or

1:01:38

2021, if you looked up her

1:01:41

name, she's like for a job or whatever. If

1:01:43

anybody looks up my name, it's like I'm the

1:01:45

gone girl. I'm the girl that

1:01:48

hoax this stuff instead of I'm

1:01:50

the victim of Matthew Mueller. Yeah.

1:01:53

Matthew Mueller was charged in

1:01:56

federal court with kidnapping and

1:01:58

ransom for Denise's kidnapping.

1:02:01

And he got 40 years.

1:02:03

He was also charged for that other

1:02:05

attempted kidnapping. And I think he got

1:02:07

10 years to run concurrently. And another

1:02:10

thing that this book recalls is like

1:02:12

how Denise had to get up on

1:02:14

the stand and like re like recount

1:02:16

all of the horrible details of her

1:02:18

sexual assault. And because

1:02:20

they had videos of what

1:02:24

she went through, they can play those makes me

1:02:26

want to throw up. Isn't

1:02:28

that so disturbing? It's so

1:02:31

awful. She also

1:02:33

got to speak to Matthew

1:02:35

himself. And she was really

1:02:38

strong and really forceful. And

1:02:41

she told him, you know, that

1:02:44

she thought he was a coward and a

1:02:46

monster. And that when she had to pretend

1:02:48

to enjoy sex with him, she

1:02:50

wants him to know that she was thinking

1:02:53

of Aaron the whole time. And that's the

1:02:55

only way she got through it. I mean,

1:02:57

I think she's a real hero, man. Yeah,

1:02:59

you know, he was not charged for what

1:03:02

he did to Aaron, he did get charged

1:03:04

in Solano County with kidnapping for

1:03:07

ransom to count the forcibly forcible

1:03:09

rape robbery burglary and false imprisonment,

1:03:11

which he pled not guilty for

1:03:13

the other stuff he pled guilty

1:03:15

for this one, he pled not

1:03:17

guilty. And he decided to

1:03:19

defend himself. Remember, I told you he

1:03:21

was an attorney. But since then, he

1:03:23

has been deemed incompetent to stand

1:03:26

trial for his mental

1:03:28

disabilities, which he did

1:03:31

tell people that I think

1:03:33

he he told a reporter one

1:03:35

time that he had, I think,

1:03:37

bipolar, and a couple other things.

1:03:41

And it was super severe. He

1:03:43

said that he's unable

1:03:45

to control

1:03:47

himself with his disability, which I think

1:03:50

is probably true. Like, yeah,

1:03:53

but you should probably get help for that

1:03:55

before you go rape people and drug them

1:03:57

and imprison them in their own home. Matthew

1:04:01

also was the only one ever

1:04:03

charged with this kidnapping. And

1:04:06

Aaron and Denise are adamant that there are

1:04:08

others out there that were

1:04:11

with him. They're like, in their book, they're

1:04:13

like, there is no way we heard people.

1:04:17

We know that there is somebody else

1:04:19

out there. And

1:04:24

they're, I mean, they're like fully adamant

1:04:26

that it wasn't just one person that did

1:04:28

it. I don't know. In

1:04:31

their book, they do not talk very highly

1:04:33

of Jennifer. And

1:04:35

they make some inferences to her

1:04:37

boyfriend who was in law enforcement,

1:04:41

which I got the feeling like where she questioned and she

1:04:43

was like, well, I don't know, she could have faked it.

1:04:46

She was my man. She

1:04:49

will remember she had a law enforcement

1:04:51

boyfriend that she had an affair with

1:04:53

for two years. Yeah, it's

1:04:56

she did not. Yes, they did question her. And

1:04:59

you know what they did? They got her security. They

1:05:03

got her security because they were like, Oh, it was

1:05:05

supposed to be for you, which seems really weird because

1:05:07

if they thought it was a hoax the whole time,

1:05:09

why would they get them? Why

1:05:11

would they get her security? Yeah, you

1:05:14

know what I thought where I thought this was going was

1:05:16

that I thought you were going to tell me it was

1:05:18

her who did the

1:05:20

whole kidnapping thing. Yeah, it wasn't. It was

1:05:22

this guy, but in a case like that

1:05:24

one time. Yes. There is

1:05:26

some like there are questions where you're

1:05:29

like, why

1:05:31

were the cops so one minded?

1:05:33

Like they only had like

1:05:35

they were like tunnel visioned, right?

1:05:39

She also did not speak

1:05:41

very highly of Aaron

1:05:43

or Denise, but then she got I

1:05:45

don't know. There's some things where I'm like, was

1:05:49

there someone in law

1:05:51

enforcement that could

1:05:53

have worked with Matthew Mueller? I don't know.

1:05:55

I mean, it's so far. I

1:05:58

don't know. You know what it sounds like to me. Well,

1:06:00

I picture it being like kind of,

1:06:02

I mean, since these guys are kind

1:06:05

of like misogynistic,

1:06:09

it sounds to me like there's like one super

1:06:12

cool detective guy

1:06:14

that everybody like no one wants to rub

1:06:16

the wrong way. And so if

1:06:18

he's saying it's going this way, they all kind

1:06:20

of do that. And then even when evidence is presented

1:06:22

to them, to the contrary,

1:06:24

they all go along

1:06:26

with it because it would be the worst

1:06:28

thing in the world to admit that they are

1:06:31

wrong because they're so kind of egotistical.

1:06:33

And yeah, this is kind of like

1:06:35

followers. Yes, this guy mustard was 100%

1:06:37

like that. And

1:06:40

he even got an award in 2015

1:06:42

after this, which is like, dude, you

1:06:44

didn't even do your fricking job should

1:06:46

have got award for doing your job.

1:06:49

Well, Dr. Ben Brown got voted best

1:06:51

plastic surgeon or whatever. Yeah, I'm

1:06:54

like awards are not

1:06:56

everything. It's true. Yeah, something's

1:06:58

not adding up with the

1:07:01

people I listen to another podcast with these

1:07:03

two on and an FBI agent. And

1:07:07

I think he said to that he he

1:07:09

believes there's somebody else with Mueller at the

1:07:11

time, I don't know if he was able

1:07:13

to pay somebody to just be there or

1:07:15

make some sounds or say like,

1:07:18

Hey, come help me with hanging

1:07:21

things up after he has them like

1:07:23

put in a closet, you know, so

1:07:26

so they're not actually in the in

1:07:29

the kidnapping portion, but they're in

1:07:32

a portion of the portion, he did

1:07:34

order door dash or I don't think

1:07:36

there was door dash in time, but

1:07:38

like ordered some food delivery service in

1:07:41

Tahoe. And so he

1:07:43

did have somebody come to the door. There's

1:07:45

a lot of information in the book

1:07:47

if you want to know more of

1:07:49

like everything that happened. Also, the two

1:07:51

they did sue the police department for

1:07:54

defamation, which I'm happy

1:07:56

they did they were awarded $2.5 million, which I don't. think

1:08:00

it's enough. Not enough. Yeah, not enough.

1:08:02

Because those attorneys, I'm sure were so much

1:08:06

money. I know that they were

1:08:08

bare minimum 10. Bare minimum 10. And I would

1:08:10

I think 20 is

1:08:15

better. Me too. Yeah,

1:08:18

I definitely think they should have

1:08:20

gotten more. But I will

1:08:22

tell you that it is a true

1:08:24

love story because these two got married.

1:08:28

They now have two beautiful children.

1:08:30

They invited Misty Caruso, the

1:08:32

detective that figured out their

1:08:34

case to their wedding. I

1:08:37

mean, it's just I

1:08:40

love that. It's a really magical story

1:08:42

at the end. Their book

1:08:44

is beautifully written. It's told by

1:08:46

her and him. And it

1:08:49

tells you at the same time, like what Aaron

1:08:51

is going through and what Denise is going through.

1:08:53

It goes through more of like

1:08:55

the police corruption and

1:08:57

some theories and then

1:08:59

how they really, really made it through.

1:09:02

And also tell you the FBI that was talking

1:09:04

to them told them that they did the right

1:09:06

thing in this case, like,

1:09:10

and she also talks about how she just

1:09:12

kind of knew that he had it in

1:09:14

him. There was a part of this, this

1:09:16

guy that didn't

1:09:18

really want to be doing

1:09:20

this, I think like he wanted

1:09:22

to enough to like the fact that he did it.

1:09:25

Right. But she,

1:09:27

I think knew that if she didn't fight

1:09:29

back with him, that he would most likely

1:09:31

let her go because he

1:09:33

kind of felt a report. We

1:09:35

survived. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. So

1:09:39

I think there is that point. And maybe

1:09:41

it's like, you've

1:09:43

got, I mean, obviously the other

1:09:45

guy fought back and he ran away. Right.

1:09:48

So the guy, but he is no.