0:02

Hi and welcome to Housewives

0:04

of True Crime. Welcome. Welcome.

0:07

I am Tabitha. Give me

0:10

Dateline, White Wine, and I'll pick up

0:12

your kids in the carpool line. The

0:14

next day, right? Yeah, the next day.

0:16

Okay. And I am Gretchen. I

0:19

like White Wine, True Crime,

0:21

and In Bed by 9 because I have a lot of stuff to do in the

0:25

morning. We are

0:28

Housewives of True Crime.

0:30

Yes we are! Yes

0:32

we are! Housewives of

0:34

True Crime. I'm a-gr-ing,

0:36

I'm a-gr-ing. Housewives of

0:39

True Crime. I'm

0:41

a-gr-ing, I'm a-gr-ing. Welcome.

0:45

Welcome. Housewives of

0:48

True Crime. Yeah.

0:51

How's he? What's

0:53

it? Oh, it is. It is. Beautiful.

0:58

Flowers are blooming. Love

1:01

is in the air. Is it? No,

1:04

you know what's in the air is um- Pollen.

1:07

The Saint Patrick's Day. Yeah, that

1:09

too. And um,

1:11

Easter are very close together. It's

1:14

causing me a little stress because I like

1:16

to decorate for both holidays. Oh, it's too

1:19

much. It's too much. They're

1:21

like within 13 days of each other.

1:24

I skipped decorating for Saint Patrick's and

1:26

just put out my Easter decor. Okay,

1:28

so listen, sometimes

1:31

you could just throw in a few

1:34

things that you can pull out, right?

1:36

Well, I go off, you know, I

1:38

have like a Saint Patrick's Day inflatable

1:40

for the yard. You wouldn't think

1:42

she's Irish. I'm one of those. Yeah,

1:46

I do have a confession because we've been

1:49

having a little exchange over her

1:51

use of the word hippie

1:53

and me. And

1:56

I think maybe I have some hippie

1:58

tendencies. Oh my God. You're

2:00

just realizing this after

2:02

40 something years. So

2:08

I have this like I have this

2:10

tree that is awful. It

2:12

has a lot of branches, but it's like very dead in

2:14

my front yard. And so I hung these little

2:16

like eggs all over it. And

2:19

then I got this cute little bunny that's like

2:21

meditating. And

2:23

it has like a butterfly like on its palm that lights

2:25

up like you know or things like that. Yeah. So

2:28

I was like, where can I put this? Well, I

2:30

hung it with fishing line in the tree like the

2:33

bunny is like levitating. And

2:40

I'm like, oh, I'm like, I'm like maybe

2:42

tabs, right? I'm

2:44

out there all the time and I'm always

2:46

looking for my neighbors to say like hey

2:48

nice decorations because I don't think there is

2:50

a single other house on

2:53

the street that has so much

2:55

as a like happy spring sign. Okay.

2:57

And they don't they don't say

2:59

anything. Oh, no, they like and then keep walking

3:01

not like oh so cute. No, I'm

3:03

not getting any no love

3:06

because the dead tree is the red flag

3:08

for me. It's like the dead tree and

3:11

the levitating bunny. They're like, what a weirdo.

3:13

Yes, and they're like, why

3:15

don't you clean that up? Like

3:18

take the tree out. I

3:20

mean, you know like whatever. I

3:23

got time for that on it. Or

3:27

we could just you know, hang

3:30

eggs on it and shoot it up and make it.

3:32

I do the same shit with my dead lawn. I

3:34

think if you cover it in inflatable that it just

3:36

makes the house looks better. So let's just keep them

3:38

up all year. Dead lawn. Seriously.

3:42

Oh gosh, that just gives me heart

3:44

palpitations right there. And thank you Wendy

3:46

for pushing me to go to

3:48

the doctor's. I will be doing that soon.

3:52

Oh my God, I need to go to the

3:54

doctor's. It's been a minute. Yeah,

3:56

so hard. I

3:58

just a friend of mine was just. Me yesterday

4:00

she went to the dentist for a little

4:02

cleaning and I'm like. Snap for you

4:04

guys! It's been a minute since I've been to

4:07

the dance as you were like where to find

4:09

time for that? I can find some it's I

4:11

would like. Older and great. That's very adulteress. She

4:13

said they told her she has a bunch. Of

4:15

decay. A cavities I guess

4:17

and it was really painful and soon get out

4:19

of there for two hours them like a grew

4:22

had a daffodil go to me a little crazy.

4:24

That validates me. I'm like Atlanta for know. The

4:28

out. Like a

4:30

bit Herzog go without elect really

4:32

white. I am. I

4:34

still found myself right now because

4:36

he know I hate exercise. I

4:38

hate it so much By I

4:40

am I am at the phase.

4:43

Where. It doesn't. Hurt.

4:46

Yeah and. You. Know

4:48

hats? Yes, I like the I like

4:50

the pain. No third, know there's a

4:52

difference. Like I get to the point

4:54

where I do like to squat and

4:56

then I can't like sit down on

4:59

the yellow. Let okay everybody night. I

5:01

always the toilet Emery's I don't like

5:03

sit on the toilet. The worst of

5:05

I'm in L. Before we talk about

5:07

crime though Cressy, I do want to

5:09

remind everybody that we do have a

5:11

patron or a bonus where you going

5:14

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5:16

we talk every single week on Thursday.

5:18

And if you listen on Apple than

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5:23

Clink club and subscribe their if not

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5:29

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5:34

on the bonus content so you can

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get as an it's a really great

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5:40

us. Also if you have not given

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Grow a little bit in our business just

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like you guys like to grow in your

5:52

own business. So that is the way that.

5:55

We. Can be successful. so we

5:57

appreciate every single one of you

5:59

and Thank you for all the new

6:01

Patreon subscribers. We see you and we are

6:04

very thankful. Thanks, thanks. So

6:06

let's go to, yeah, let's get to your

6:08

crime. Okay.

6:15

Okay, Tab, I got a little surprise for you. Oh,

6:17

you do? Happy fucking early birthday. Okay. I

6:20

mean, it's like, I'm not ready

6:22

to age myself yet to the next year.

6:26

I like it though. Like your birthday's on the

6:28

6th and I'm like the 19th and so

6:31

there's like a couple of days where like what we're only

6:33

like a year apart. It's

6:35

two, but right. How

6:37

old are you? Normally it's two, but

6:39

there's like a minute where you're only

6:41

one year. Oh my gosh. Right? Yeah.

6:45

Yeah. I like those days. By the way, it

6:48

is our anniversary month. Five

6:51

year anniversary. I'm still deciding when we get you. I

6:53

think I'm going to get you a cameo

6:55

from Gypsy Rose. I just

6:57

thought she was, I just thought, I

7:00

just heard she

7:02

is making, she has so many TikTok followers and

7:04

everything. She's making like $2 million a year. Stop

7:08

right now. What she really should do is

7:10

only fans. Tabasah, shame on

7:12

you. I'm just saying.

7:14

Just make it on. Not, no, I mean,

7:16

oh my God. I feel like you could

7:18

make so much money on only

7:21

fans. You like,

7:23

you could say, I don't think

7:25

$2 million is chump change. For your information.

7:27

It's not, but it's not going to last

7:29

forever. So I'm just saying, make it while

7:31

you can. Well,

7:34

I think, well, okay, you have a point

7:36

there. Maybe make more in your period

7:39

of your 15 minutes of fame.

7:41

Yeah. I just think if she can

7:43

make it on TikTok and cameo, then,

7:46

you know, exploit that. You

7:48

don't even have to take your clothes off for only fans.

7:51

I think you do. Dude,

7:53

I just, that's where they lose. You can't be

7:55

nude. You have to have clothes on. On

7:58

only fans? Yeah, that's what I just read. should

8:00

subscribe for

8:02

research purposes. Sure.

8:06

I'll put it on the company card. Yeah.

8:08

Okay. Let's see how naked they get. Okay.

8:11

We would, we do it. We do it

8:13

like we need to pick somebody that we

8:15

want to pick someone. We'll talk. Well, this

8:17

is what we'll be talking about on the,

8:19

on the, on the, oh, pay for it.

8:21

You know what? Hey guys,

8:24

we're subscribing today to

8:26

OnlyFans. And then we're going to

8:28

give you the whole deal. One

8:30

of us is going to subscribe and we're going to share

8:33

the password because we're cheap bitches like that. But

8:37

not supposed to share our secrets. Okay.

8:39

No one else does that. Yes.

8:42

So subscribe and listen

8:44

what we find out. Okay. Okay.

8:47

All right. So birth or the

8:49

early birthday. Back to the surprise.

8:51

Okay. I'm doing

8:53

a listener suggestion from Nikki

8:56

Kemp in. Oh my God.

8:58

She is going. She has a friend

9:00

of mine and

9:02

that is so funny because I saw her yesterday

9:05

and I said, I'm, I said,

9:07

oh, I'm recording tomorrow, which is today that we're

9:09

recording. It's not our normal day to record. And

9:12

I could just see her eyes light up and she

9:14

was like, Oh, what are you talking about? And I

9:16

was like, no, it's Gretchen's case. So I'm not sure.

9:18

And I could just see her wheels spinning. Like I

9:21

hope she's doing my case. Okay.

9:23

Well, yeah, this, okay. So

9:25

how this came to be so good,

9:27

because obviously she's not just a listener.

9:29

She's a personal friend of tabs is

9:32

that I was on the phone with

9:35

a Tabitha while she ran into

9:37

Nikki and she

9:39

told her that she had a suggestion and

9:41

Tab blew her off and I

9:43

was listening to it on the phone and I made

9:45

Tab tell her, you know, put it in

9:52

an email attention to me and she

9:55

did. And it was a really nice

9:57

email And it said things

9:59

like. Thanks for considering the case

10:01

and have to meet you when you

10:04

come to Texas and I'm gonna tell

10:06

you the key. You are going to

10:08

meet me when I come to Texas

10:10

and you're going to buy me a

10:12

giant cocktail? Arms Because this

10:14

isn't my normal case. it looks yeah,

10:17

it was extra. Of now.

10:20

Sell. At. All went down

10:23

in. Springfield, Missouri in

10:25

Nineteen Ninety Two. Springfield

10:28

seems like a nice place to live, you

10:30

can buy yourself a really nice home and

10:33

like the three hundred pounds while I. Still,

10:36

even today. We. Are today. I

10:38

don't know what else I can. Only

10:40

like fifty thousand? probably? Population

10:44

is around one hundred and seventy thousand,

10:46

and back in Nineteen Ninety Two, it

10:48

was around one hundred and fifty. Thousand

10:50

So it's it's. not exactly a small

10:52

town. So

10:55

on graduation night for the local.

10:58

Take up too. High

11:00

schoolers. There were plenty of parties

11:02

to go to. Take

11:04

a pill. That's. Really the name of

11:06

high school? A. Set

11:12

itself. I like take a dump. the. Justices

11:14

lesson ethic Bad: Okay, By

11:17

the way, Fun fact about the

11:20

to the pool high School. It

11:22

is where Brad Pitt graduated in

11:24

nineteen. States you and ten

11:26

years for for Kickapoo sounding

11:28

a little better now. That

11:30

phrase as soon. A little better. But

11:32

Nineteen Eighty Two graduation. And I was

11:34

too. And he graduated high school. Yeah.

11:38

Those guys the my Dad.

11:40

Yeah, okay. well on June

11:43

six. Nineteen. Ninety Two when

11:45

you were twelve. Like.

11:48

That mass okay, I'm

11:50

sorry. Fresh grad girls

11:52

set out to the

11:54

festivities. With their plan

11:56

been to end their night at a

11:58

motel in. branson which

12:01

is only about 45 minutes away

12:03

so that they could wake up and

12:05

go to the whitewater water park in

12:08

the morning. Remember Branson's the place in

12:10

Missouri that has all the fun stuff. It's

12:13

what we've talked about before. Yeah,

12:15

if I go to Missouri that's where I'm going.

12:17

Me too. Yeah. Well

12:20

these young ladies were named

12:22

Janelle, Susie, and Stacy. They

12:25

ended up at a party in Janelle's neighborhood

12:27

and when it was time to leave they

12:29

they changed the plan. They didn't feel like

12:32

driving to Branson that night and so the

12:34

new plan was to just crash at Janelle's

12:36

and head to the water park in the

12:39

morning. Well, when they

12:41

got to Janelle's house there wasn't much

12:43

room on account of all the relatives

12:45

that were staying with her because

12:47

they were in town for

12:49

graduation. Graduation, yeah. So Susie

12:52

and Stacy left and went

12:54

to Susie's house after they agreed to

12:56

pick up Janelle in the morning and

12:58

still go to the water park. Well,

13:01

morning came and went and Janelle didn't

13:03

hear from Susie and Stacy. She

13:06

tried calling Susie's house and no one

13:08

answered. She just

13:10

waited to hear from them. I mean

13:12

that's what you did back then. You didn't

13:15

have a cell phone. You just,

13:17

your ass waited. Yeah. And

13:20

when you got sick of waiting for someone

13:22

to call you like had to go knock

13:24

on their door. I,

13:27

times have changed. Now I rarely speak to

13:29

anyone on the phone besides you. I

13:32

know. I don't even think

13:34

kids know everybody's, each other's voices. Oh my

13:37

god. All other communication is via

13:39

text and I'm basically offended

13:41

if someone even tries to leave me

13:43

a voicemail. Like I cannot be bothered

13:45

to listen to your like voice like

13:48

text or email only. Okay. Okay. But

13:51

like I was saying it was Janelle had

13:55

1992 options. So when

13:57

she got sick of waiting by the phone, she

14:00

got her boyfriend to drive her over to

14:02

Susie's house. When they arrived,

14:04

she saw Susie's car, Stacy's car,

14:07

and Susie's mother Cheryl's

14:09

car. All three were in

14:11

the driveway. As they

14:13

walk up to the steps, they saw broken

14:16

glass from a broken porch light. They

14:19

knocked on the door and no one

14:21

answered, and so they just opened it

14:23

and went in thinking they just must

14:25

all be sleeping. Janelle's

14:27

boyfriend grabbed a broom and

14:30

cleaned up the broken glass while Janelle went

14:32

to wake up her friends. But

14:35

they weren't there. I mean, that's like

14:37

a nice sounding team to point out. They weren't there. They

14:40

were not there. And

14:42

who taught this boyfriend to clean up?

14:44

That is like- I had some good

14:46

parents, okay? That is good, okay? Kudos.

14:51

Yeah. So no one was

14:53

there, and she had no idea where they

14:55

could be. They had obviously made it there

14:57

because their cars were in the driveway. The

15:00

beds all looked slept in, and

15:03

in the bathroom was all their jewelry

15:06

and dirty towels from removing their

15:08

makeup. Another thing we had to do. There

15:11

was no face wipes. Remember

15:13

how rough we had it? You know,

15:15

you had to wash your face

15:18

with probably Noxema, okay?

15:22

And a washcloth. That's

15:24

true. Right now it's the magic eraser. You

15:27

don't even need Noxema anymore. Right?

15:31

It was a lot in 1992, okay? Also,

15:34

the girls' purses were there.

15:37

So Janelle is like really at a loss.

15:40

Yeah, this is weird. So what to do

15:42

about her missing friends. But she didn't think

15:44

anything bad could have happened to them. She

15:47

just didn't know where they were. And

15:49

she figured they will just catch up with

15:51

her at the Whitewater Water Park

15:53

at some point. So

15:56

she decided to leave for the water park,

15:58

but the phone rang before... she left

16:00

and she answered it because she thought,

16:02

well, maybe it was someone who knew where everybody

16:05

was. Yeah. She

16:07

was creeped out when the person on the other

16:10

end was some perv

16:12

talking nasty. Caught

16:14

up. Yeah. She

16:17

hung up. Hey, did you ever have that

16:19

happen to you? Yeah, I was just going

16:21

to say that. Remember that was

16:23

like that was a thing. Hers

16:26

did not airdrop

16:28

dick pics, kids.

16:31

They like did these

16:33

heavy breathing phone calls. Yes. I

16:35

did get I did want I

16:37

got one when I was babysitting at a house.

16:40

Creep me the F out man. Yeah,

16:43

it's creepy if you're alone. But I

16:45

mean it like it did happen periodically.

16:47

Yeah, right. Yeah.

16:50

So I mean, that's how Janelle felt like it was creeps.

16:52

But you know, she

16:54

didn't think much of it. She just went

16:57

to whitewater. Yeah, she's like,

17:00

so, yeah. Okay. So

17:02

while she's there, you know, slipping and

17:04

sliding with the boyfriend, because I'm thinking

17:07

the boyfriend, she's not going by herself. No,

17:10

yeah. So

17:12

Stacy's mother started wondering about where

17:14

her daughter was. She

17:17

called Janelle's house because the last

17:19

time she spoke with Stacy, she

17:21

had told her that they had changed their

17:23

plans about spending the night at the motel

17:25

in Branson, and that they would

17:28

all just sleep at Janelle's. Janelle's

17:31

mother told her that Stacy had

17:33

decided to sleep over at Susie's

17:35

house. And she

17:37

gave her the number. When she

17:39

couldn't reach her there either, she

17:42

was annoyed her daughter had not informed I

17:44

mean, these kids are annoying like this,

17:46

you know, had not informed her about

17:48

the change in plans and was now

17:50

unreachable. But

17:53

going and looking for her would have to wait

17:55

because she had a date with her other daughter

17:57

Lisa to go shopping for wedding dresses. Well,

18:02

by the time she was done with

18:04

that and she still hadn't heard from

18:06

Stacy, she went from being annoyed to

18:08

concerned. She

18:12

went to Whitewater and

18:14

found Janelle so she could get

18:17

Susie's address. Susie and

18:19

her mother had just moved into a new house

18:21

two months prior and so she wasn't familiar with

18:23

where they were living at the moment. With

18:26

the address in hand, she headed over to

18:28

the house and now with still no sign

18:30

of the

18:33

girls, she called and reported

18:35

her missing. When

18:38

word got out that the three

18:41

were missing, friends and family

18:44

gathered at Susie's house because

18:46

it's Susie, Stacy,

18:49

and Cheryl, Susie's mother.

18:54

The place was a little messy and so

18:57

they took it upon themselves to clean it up

18:59

a bit, do the dishes. They

19:02

even repaired like a bent screen. They

19:06

also... This house that the

19:09

girls had been and had clearly been at

19:11

because the beds were slept in, they washed

19:13

their faces. But why are they cleaning it

19:15

up if something happened? That's

19:17

kind of weird. Well, I'm just

19:19

telling you that's what they're doing. If

19:22

no one's expecting anything, no one's thinking anything bad

19:24

happened, they didn't know that this wasn't like a

19:26

true crime podcast episode tab. They're

19:28

just thinking like, where did these girls often

19:30

go? What

19:33

about the rest of the family that was also to be

19:35

staying there? They're not there either? They

19:37

didn't stay at that house tab. They

19:40

went... Remember, they... Yes, yes.

19:42

They went to the girls. Two of the girls. Yes.

19:46

Yes. Okay. They also

19:48

played all the messages on the

19:50

answering machine and there was a pervy

19:53

one on the answering machine.

19:56

Mm-hmm. But they deleted it right away. Because

20:00

that's what you did. Right? Okay.

20:03

When officers arrived at the house, then

20:08

they treated it like a crime scene. You

20:11

know, as much as they could.

20:13

Because everything had wash everything and

20:15

fix shit and put your fingerprints

20:17

everywhere. And yes, yes, it

20:19

had been contaminated

20:22

by all the well meaning people at the

20:24

house, you know, but I mean, I, I

20:27

do sort of get it because it's like,

20:29

you're nervous, you want to be helpful. So

20:32

you're like, I'll just clean this stuff

20:34

up for them. Yeah, it's like having a

20:36

baby though, and they need their house cleaned.

20:39

I know that's true. That's true.

20:41

But anyways, live it. Okay, I get it. I get

20:43

it. Note to people in the future.

20:45

Okay, got it. Well,

20:50

what police did see when they arrived

20:52

for the missing person's report was they

20:54

noted that there wasn't

20:57

really any evidence of a struggle or

20:59

anything out of the ordinary at

21:01

the house besides the broken porch

21:03

light that they learned about and

21:06

one of the like blind

21:09

slats like being

21:11

bent like there was somebody looking out the window

21:13

and the bed screen.

21:17

There wasn't anything taken

21:19

and Cheryl's

21:23

in Cheryl's purse, I was like $900 in

21:26

deposits she needed to make for her

21:28

her hair salon. The

21:31

police were told that it was normal for Cheryl

21:34

to have large deposits like that

21:36

on hand. But what wasn't normal

21:39

was for Cheryl to have left

21:41

without her cigarette and lighter. They

21:45

were both left and friends of Cheryl say

21:47

like she was girlfriend with a real chain

21:49

smoker like she hardly went to the bathroom

21:51

without a ciggy. Within

21:55

24 hours, all

21:58

of these friends and family that had gathered gathered

22:00

to watch Susie and Stacy graduate

22:02

from high school, we're now all

22:04

putting up missing person fires.

22:08

Three women just gone.

22:12

Pretty unheard of and, you know, certainly

22:15

was in Springfield in 1990. And

22:19

so the community really spring into action.

22:21

The women were dubbed the

22:23

missing Springfield three, as

22:26

it was reported in the media. And

22:29

as is standard, the

22:31

people closest to the women were looked at

22:33

first as persons of interest. There

22:36

was not anyone in Stacy's life that

22:38

was alarming. She and

22:40

she wasn't even supposed to have ended up at

22:43

Susie's house that night. So she was likely not

22:45

the target. Cheryl

22:47

being a grown single mother

22:49

had some exes in her past,

22:52

of course, but she

22:54

didn't have any contentious relationships with

22:56

them. And no known enemies besides

22:58

the strained relationship she had with

23:00

her adult son Bart, who

23:03

was Susie's older brother by nine years.

23:07

Bart admittedly had a

23:09

drinking problem. And it

23:11

had played a role in the breakdown

23:13

of his relationship with his mother who

23:16

had grown intolerant of his binge

23:18

drinking. He had

23:20

only moved back to Springfield that year

23:22

after being in the Pacific Northwest for

23:24

quite a while. When

23:27

he came back to Springfield, he

23:30

had mended fences with his mom

23:32

and sister Susie. He

23:34

got an apartment and Susie moved in with him

23:36

for a while. Cheryl supported

23:38

the idea of her two children, you

23:40

know, living together and getting to know

23:42

each other at the time.

23:45

But then there was an incident. The

23:48

way Bart tells the story himself is

23:50

that Susie asked him to

23:53

turn his music down and he'd

23:56

been drinking. It was a

23:58

Friday and he refused. and

24:00

when she attempted to do it

24:02

herself, a ceramic clown broke that

24:05

they both loved, they had bond

24:07

together at the flea market. And

24:10

that made him more angry and

24:13

argument commenced and Susie left and

24:15

went back to living with her

24:17

mother and they hadn't spoken to

24:20

Bart since that happened. Cheryl

24:23

or Susie. In Bart's mind,

24:25

he thought that they would eventually of

24:27

course speak when you know,

24:29

other heads prevailed, but

24:31

sadly he would never get the chance. Bart

24:35

was contacted by the police

24:37

and questioned and he voluntarily

24:39

took a polygraph and was

24:41

cleared by investigators early on,

24:43

but not by public

24:45

opinion. What

24:47

it seems like happened to me is

24:50

that people were just desperate for an

24:52

answer. The

24:54

community does not want to live in

24:56

fear, thinking that three women can

24:59

just disappear right at

25:01

the hands of like a boogeyman. You know,

25:03

there must be a reason. So

25:07

the argument that Bart admitted

25:09

to with his little sister

25:11

got twisted into them calling

25:14

it a violent attack. And

25:18

Bart categorically denied never putting his

25:20

hand on his sister or his

25:22

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29:06

think the only thing worse than having

29:08

missing loved ones is being wrongfully suspected

29:11

of having something to do with it

29:13

at the same time. Totally.

29:16

Totally. Yeah, it's kind

29:18

of like John Vanneer Ramsey's brother.

29:22

Yeah right. And

29:24

father and mother. I mean

29:26

that whole family has been

29:29

looked at and accused in the same thing with

29:31

like kind of like Madeline McCain. It's like the

29:34

word out. So

29:39

you know that's what

29:42

Bart was kind of up against from

29:44

at the time from the community in

29:47

Springfield. You know they're all like giving him

29:49

kind of like the side eye and it's so it's not

29:51

really surprising that he ended up moving back to the

29:53

Pacific Northwest not too long after

29:56

the disappearance. Well

29:59

there was another person in the room. of interest that was

30:01

close to Susie that

30:03

was investigated and cleared, but there

30:05

are some people out there who

30:07

don't believe that he and his

30:10

associates should have been. Susie had

30:12

an ex-boyfriend, Dustin, and him

30:14

and his two friends, Michael

30:17

and Joseph, were facing charges

30:19

for felony institutional vandalism and

30:22

theft. Susie had

30:24

been questioned by the police and

30:26

agreed to testify against them if

30:28

they went to trial. Her

30:31

testimony would have been, by the

30:33

way, that she didn't have any knowledge

30:35

of the theft until after it occurred. I

30:39

can imagine that it wouldn't take Susie

30:41

or any young lady with like a

30:43

single brain cell too

30:46

long to think

30:48

about cooperating with the police

30:50

and breaking up with a boyfriend

30:52

right after she learned about the

30:55

vandalism, you know, slash

30:57

theft because this shit is not

30:59

sexy at all. Guess what

31:02

they stole? Gold

31:05

fillings. Stop.

31:08

Yeah. They break. Let

31:11

me tell you. They broke

31:14

into a damn mausoleum at

31:17

the cemetery. What? They,

31:21

yeah. They were, is

31:23

this real? Yeah. They

31:25

were caught when some kids

31:27

found some discarded skulls in

31:30

a park. This is so disgusting.

31:32

Yeah. And police were able

31:35

to connect the dots to

31:38

the young men with the help of

31:40

a local pawn shop where they keep

31:42

records of who be pawning. And

31:45

that's where pawning gold

31:47

fillings. Yeah. That's where

31:50

Dustin, ex-boyfriend had received

31:52

$30 dollars

31:56

for the fillings. I

32:00

was thinking to myself when you were

32:03

telling me about the dentist earlier, if

32:05

there was any correlation to this

32:08

story, but I didn't

32:10

say it because I was like, there's no way there

32:15

is, but there truly is. Like,

32:19

yeah, they use porcelain now, so I'll take

32:21

a look. Thanks, sweet

32:24

Jesus. Nobody's going to

32:26

steal that. Right? Okay.

32:30

I mean, I don't know what to do

32:32

with it. It's like, it's so next level,

32:35

next level wrong and not even lucrative,

32:37

not even lucrative back in 1992. Okay.

32:41

I mean, seriously, 30 bucks. That's

32:43

a lot of trouble. Mine is low down

32:45

to the local beach

32:47

and take one of those metal

32:51

detectors. I think that

32:53

probably would be more lucrative. Yeah. I'm

32:56

thinking that too. So

33:01

that's disgusting. It's so

33:03

disgusting. That's why I'm telling you it shouldn't have taken

33:05

her more than a hot minute because you see a

33:07

lot of teenage girls who are not going to be

33:09

like, oh yeah, let me break up with them and

33:12

I'll testify against them. No problem.

33:15

Yeah. Like that's all it

33:17

takes. Tell me that my boyfriend broke into a mausoleum. I

33:20

mean, even me with my low self esteem in high school

33:22

would have been like, I'm out. So

33:24

gross. Okay.

33:31

So the three Dustin

33:33

and his two friends, um,

33:36

were also rumored to be

33:38

possibly into like some satanic

33:41

shit. Yeah. You think?

33:44

Yeah. That's gotta be something. I

33:46

think there's gotta be some sort of

33:48

voodoo Ouija board

33:51

shit going on. I don't know. Right.

33:53

Okay. So they

33:56

were all together the night

33:58

of the disappearance. So they were

34:00

each other's alibi, which

34:04

is why people probably still

34:06

look at them sideways to this day.

34:09

But they all passed polygraphs and,

34:12

like I said, were cleared by investigators.

34:16

There was a tip that came into police

34:19

about a green van in

34:21

the area and a resident

34:23

who thought she could

34:25

have seen Susie driving the

34:27

van and a nonvisible man

34:30

behind her telling her,

34:32

get out of here. There

34:35

were thousands of tips that came in

34:37

that didn't lead anywhere. But

34:40

for some reason, they found this one to be credible.

34:43

So the police actually bought a van that

34:45

looked like the one described by

34:47

the tipster and parked it

34:49

in front of the station with a sign

34:51

that said, like, have you seen

34:53

me? And a phone number

34:55

to call. Okay. But

34:59

the van tip never really

35:01

led anywhere. The

35:04

coverage of the missing Springfield 3 did

35:07

not die down partly because the

35:10

news show 48 hours was

35:14

filming in a nearby area. And

35:16

when they learned about the three

35:18

missing women, they packed up and

35:21

shadowed police in the week following

35:23

the investigation and then aired the

35:25

show nationally. I

35:28

tried really hard to

35:30

watch the original episode of 48 hours,

35:32

but I couldn't get a hold of it.

35:35

Oh, you can't find it. Sometimes they do that. I

35:38

wonder why they take some off. Yeah. Yeah.

35:45

So for years, missing

35:47

pictures stayed up in store windows

35:50

and people had their

35:52

theories. But

35:55

the media attention to the case died down.

35:59

But the case wasn't completely cold

36:02

because leads were still coming in.

36:05

The first was called in by the

36:07

brother of a murder victim from 1978.

36:12

Sharon Zellers was a 19 year

36:15

old Disney World employee when

36:18

she was found lifeless in

36:20

a sewage drain. The

36:23

night she was found, Robert

36:25

Cox was treated in an emergency

36:27

room for a bad bite to

36:29

the tongue. He said

36:32

he did it to himself, but

36:35

the nurse that treated him noted that that

36:37

wasn't possible because of the direction of

36:39

the bite. She's probably like, the

36:42

teeth look like they're coming in

36:44

instead of out. Yeah, Robert

36:47

was staying in a motel a

36:49

couple hundred feet from where

36:51

Sharon was found. Oh. It

36:54

was 1978 and DNA was not a thing. And

37:00

he was questioned at the time, but

37:02

when they didn't have enough to hold

37:04

him, he was free and not

37:06

charged with her murder for eight years.

37:10

He was convicted for it

37:12

at that point and sentenced to death.

37:15

And then in 1990, that conviction was overturned based on

37:21

a court ruling that he was convicted

37:24

under only a suspicion of death. I

37:28

mean, sure would seem like that

37:30

suspicion was correct though, because he

37:32

went on to commit kidnapping

37:35

and assault in California in

37:37

1985, and

37:40

was also a suspect of at least

37:42

two more in Texas. Wow. Yeah.

37:47

So did not get rehabilitated in those,

37:50

what did you say, eight years? Yeah. Yeah.

37:53

So he was put back in

37:56

the clink for holding a

37:58

gun. to

38:00

a 12 year old during a robbery in

38:03

Texas in 1995. So

38:07

how does this relate to the missing

38:09

Springfield three? Well, because he

38:12

got let out when his conviction

38:14

was overturned in June 1992, he

38:17

was free as a bee in

38:19

his hometown, which was Springfield.

38:22

Yeah. The poor family

38:24

of- It seems like he could be the guy.

38:27

Yeah, he does seem like he could be the guy

38:29

and yeah, what

38:31

I think is pretty impressive

38:35

is that the poor family of Sharon Sellers

38:37

kept tabs on him. Cause

38:40

it wasn't like you could just type

38:42

somebody into a database, right? And

38:45

they're so mad that his conviction

38:47

got overturned. So they're like following

38:49

him around. And that's

38:51

crazy. I mean, there's been really following him

38:54

around. So when

38:56

Sharon Sellers family reported it to

38:58

the police that

39:01

they thought that Robert Cox could have

39:04

possibly be a suspect in the Springfield

39:06

three, he was questioned and he had

39:08

an alibi that was corroborated by his

39:11

then girlfriend who said that he was

39:13

home that night with her and

39:15

in the early morning hours, he

39:18

took her and her child to church. So

39:22

he wasn't further questioned after

39:25

that. But then when he

39:27

was re-arrested for the robbery in

39:29

Texas in 1995, they

39:31

decided to ask the

39:34

girlfriend again about Robert's

39:36

alibi. And she said,

39:38

you know, I don't really know

39:40

where he was that

39:43

night. And also

39:46

we never went to church. Oh no

39:48

way. Liar, liar, pants on fire

39:50

about church. I know. I'm

39:53

thinking, why didn't they try to verify

39:57

his church attendance? Yeah. I

40:00

mean, I feel like that's like not hard.

40:02

Like, well, did anybody see you there? Great.

40:06

Yeah, true. You know? Yeah, what

40:08

church? Yeah, I don't know why

40:10

they didn't do that more thoroughly back in 1992. I

40:12

mean, it doesn't... You give an offer. Yeah, yeah. It

40:14

doesn't seem like a hard box to check, but they

40:17

didn't. And also, you know, shame

40:19

on you, Robert, about lying about spending time in

40:21

the house of the Lord on top

40:24

of being a total shit person. A

40:27

piece of information that I found disturbing about

40:29

Robert is that his occupation during... Stop everything.

40:31

You mean not like... Well, everything, but this

40:33

should bug you. This bugs me. His

40:36

occupation during his time in

40:38

Springfield was working for the gas

40:41

company. Today

40:43

I want to talk about the hellscape that

40:45

is technical diagramming, right? Everybody's nodding their heads

40:47

right now. And there

40:49

is a potential solution that I want to

40:52

share. There was one name that several people

40:54

brought up. I did some digging and it's

40:56

kind of nuts how much this program Miro

40:58

has for developers. I have to share this.

41:00

It could potentially be a game changer for

41:02

you. So my favorite part about Miro is

41:05

that half the work is already done. Like

41:07

right now, typically we spend hours starting diagrams

41:09

from scratch, right? Gathering information. You get buy-in

41:11

from every team. You know, following

41:13

up, that's a lot of work to

41:15

do. But Miro has a full set

41:17

of integrations with the tools you're probably

41:19

already using. And they also offer open

41:22

APIs and SDKs for custom solutions for

41:24

all those niche diagramming use cases we

41:26

have to do, right? So the end

41:28

result is the same, but it doesn't

41:30

take forever. It's a massive, massive time

41:32

saver. I'm transforming basic flow charts and

41:34

network architectures and it all lives in

41:36

one place. So are

41:38

you using Miro? Have you used it? I

41:40

want to hear. I

41:43

feel that it is already pretty sketchy

41:46

that as a society, we

41:48

just tolerate the utility people randomly

41:50

in our business. You

41:53

know, whenever, when they want, yeah, when they

41:55

like come into like your side yard or

41:57

wherever your meter is. I don't think newer.

42:00

houses are really built like that, but I

42:02

mean, you know, older ones are, right? So

42:06

I think since we all have

42:08

to tolerate that, the least the utility

42:10

companies could do is maybe a background

42:12

check on these people that have access

42:14

to people's residences. Okay.

42:20

So after being convicted of

42:23

kidnapping, like Robert was,

42:25

it should be a hard

42:27

no for a new hire for, you know, the

42:29

gas company. Right. Okay.

42:32

So Springfield investigators made

42:35

three trips to Texas to talk

42:37

to Robert after he was arrested

42:39

there. Robert

42:42

pretty much gave them the runaround. He

42:44

would insinuate he knew things, but was

42:46

not like forthcoming with them. And

42:50

the feeling was pretty much like, this

42:52

guy may have been involved, but he's

42:54

never going to tell us. And

42:57

he keeps stringing us along as long

42:59

as, and he'll keep doing it as long as we

43:01

let him because he enjoys the attention. And

43:04

you know, he's locked up anyways. A

43:09

year after the last time he

43:11

was questioned by the police,

43:13

Robert gave an interview to a

43:15

Springfield reporter and he

43:18

did not exactly incriminate himself, but

43:20

he did say that he knew

43:22

for a fact the women

43:24

were dead and buried near Springfield,

43:27

but he would not speak any more

43:29

about it until his mother died. Oh,

43:32

so he did it. Robert

43:35

is 64 today and today,

43:40

because he's still today. I

43:44

feel that it is already pretty sketchy

43:46

that as a society, we

43:48

just tolerate the utility people randomly

43:51

in our business. You

43:53

know, whenever, when they want, yeah, when they,

43:56

they like come into like your side yard or

43:58

wherever your meter is. I don't think. newer

44:00

houses are really like built like that, but I

44:02

mean, you know, older ones are right. So

44:06

I think since we all have

44:08

to tolerate that, the least the utility

44:10

companies could do is maybe a background

44:12

check on these people that have access

44:15

to people's residences. Okay.

44:20

So after being convicted of

44:23

kidnapping, like Robert was,

44:25

it should be a hard

44:27

no for a new hire for, you know,

44:29

the gas company. Right. Okay.

44:32

So Springfield investigators made

44:35

three trips to Texas to talk

44:37

to Robert after he was arrested

44:39

there. Robert

44:42

pretty much gave them the runaround. He

44:44

would insinuate he knew things, but was

44:46

not like forthcoming with them. And

44:50

the feeling was pretty much like, this

44:52

guy may have been involved, but he's

44:54

never going to tell us. And

44:57

he keeps stringing us along as long

44:59

as, and he'll keep doing it as long as we

45:01

let him because he enjoys the attention. And

45:05

you know, he's locked up anyways. A

45:09

year after the last time he

45:11

was questioned by the police,

45:13

Robert gave an interview to a

45:15

Springfield reporter and he

45:18

did not exactly incriminate himself, but

45:20

he did say that he knew

45:22

for a fact the women were

45:25

dead and buried near Springfield, but

45:27

he would not speak any more

45:29

about it until his mother died.

45:32

Oh, so he did it. Robert

45:35

is 64 today and a day. Mm

45:40

hmm. Cause he's still in,

45:42

no, I was just like, I was

45:45

sitting here today. Okay. I

45:47

was like, wait, it's his birthday today. Um,

45:50

okay. How old is mother?

45:53

I'm pretty sure she's no longer with us. Okay.

45:56

And he hasn't, he hasn't come out. I

45:59

am not holding. out much hope that he's going

46:01

to be spilling any more details

46:03

because he is serving a

46:06

life sentence with the possibility

46:08

of parole on March

46:10

29, 2025. Oh,

46:13

two years. So I don't

46:15

imagine he wants to jeopardize his chances

46:18

of getting paroled. No, he's not going

46:20

to. Let's

46:22

all pray that he doesn't get it regardless though.

46:25

So maybe he really definitely shouldn't.

46:27

He's a scary, scary guy. I

46:30

think he won't because they know

46:33

he's got this

46:35

kind of lingering in the back. And he's

46:37

in Texas. I feel like they always in

46:39

Texas. Yeah. I feel like they keep

46:41

you locked up in Texas. Yeah, except if you're

46:43

that girl that helps murder her boyfriend's

46:46

parents and you get well,

46:49

I mean, okay, I let me say that

46:51

again. I think they keep you locked up

46:53

in Texas. If

46:55

you're not attractive, a pretty

46:58

white girl. Yeah. Yeah.

47:01

Yeah. Okay. So since

47:04

that interview, he's been

47:06

tightlipped with the

47:09

media with, you know, requests to

47:11

speak to him about the missing women. There

47:14

is another incarcerated person of

47:16

interest in this case, a

47:18

man named Gerald Carnahan,

47:23

raped, killed and left Jackie

47:25

Johns body in a lake

47:27

in Springfield in 1985. He

47:30

was suspected at the time, but

47:32

it wasn't until 25 years later

47:35

with DNA evidence that he

47:37

was convicted for the crime.

47:40

Wow. Which he's

47:42

serving a life sentence for. And

47:45

surprise, there's one more convicted

47:47

rapist that is serving a

47:50

life sentence. Stephen

47:52

Eugene Garrison, that

47:54

is still a person of interest as well. This

47:57

man is said to have remained a person

47:59

of interest. interest because he had knowledge

48:01

of the case, not commonly known. But

48:05

there's a gag order on that. And

48:07

so, you know, unfortunately, I can't tell

48:10

you what it is. I don't know. Yeah.

48:12

Oh my gosh. And how would he

48:14

know? I don't know. So basically, it's

48:16

been 32 years and

48:19

there's no answers. I

48:22

watched an interview with Stacy's mother

48:24

who still does every interview she

48:26

can in hopes of bringing her

48:28

daughter home. She

48:31

says she can hardly believe that she's

48:33

been gone longer than she had her now.

48:35

She has not

48:37

had her declared legally dead

48:39

like Susie and Cheryl have

48:41

been because she still can't bring

48:43

herself to accept that. I

48:46

understand. Yeah. A

48:49

woman named Kathy Baird who lived

48:51

in Springfield at the time of

48:53

the disappearance and later moved back

48:57

is a reporter now and began

48:59

investigating the story. So this

49:03

lady Kathy is pretty controversial. She's

49:06

done some real thorough digging though.

49:08

And she's also enlisted

49:10

the help of some psychics. Okay.

49:14

Which led her to the north

49:17

corner of the hospital parking garage

49:19

where she thinks the bodies are

49:21

buried. She had some kind

49:23

of engineer

49:26

go out there with ground

49:28

penetrating gear. Yeah. He said

49:30

he found three anomalies that

49:32

resembled graves. She

49:35

has offered to pay for

49:37

the temporary demolition of the parking

49:39

lot and the hospital agreed to

49:41

let her but the police won't

49:44

allow it. No way. They

49:46

say the reason is because the

49:48

timeline does not add up to

49:50

them that someone would have had

49:52

to held onto the bodies for

49:54

months and moved them to an

49:56

active construction site in a busy

49:58

area. So they

50:02

don't want to feed into psychic tips. I

50:05

mean, I get their point, but

50:07

I also say let them dig. I

50:11

don't know. I feel like let

50:13

them be wrong. You know,

50:15

but you've got this other guy that's like says

50:18

that they're on the, oh my God,

50:20

there's so many, but there's just, I

50:22

mean, it's just like, what is under there?

50:24

And it's just a parking lot. Oh,

50:27

those parking lots are huge and they take a

50:29

long time to build. I

50:32

mean, but what

50:34

if they're wrong? I don't know.

50:37

I don't know. Anyways, it's tough.

50:41

Okay, so there's

50:44

a real outpouring of people who want that

50:46

dug up. So maybe they will change their mind in the

50:48

future. I mean, I hope so. At

50:52

least I do. Okay. In

50:54

fairness to them though, this

50:57

woman, Kathy, does

51:00

not exactly come across as like firing

51:02

on all cylinders. She

51:04

gave an interview to Crime

51:07

Watch Online and in it

51:09

she's like, I know what happened and

51:11

I'm not going to tell you. Okay.

51:16

And the producers are like, really?

51:19

Then they come in from like

51:21

off camera. They're like,

51:24

yeah, that's what they said. They're like, then why

51:26

are you doing this interview if you don't want to talk to us? Yeah,

51:30

I did feel sorry for her, like kind of

51:32

in that moment, but I was like, girl, why

51:34

did you agree to do this interview? Because

51:37

she looks like she could cry. And

51:41

she said, you know, you don't understand.

51:43

I live here. Oh,

51:46

I do understand that. But then don't do that.

51:48

I do understand that. But like, girl, why do

51:50

you need to interview? She like freaked out right?

51:52

Like at the, you know, like, maybe

51:55

she freaked out right when it was

51:58

happening. Like she got there. and then, you

52:01

know, she got camera shy. I think people would get

52:03

that way. Yeah. So,

52:09

okay. What the F? You

52:11

know, this case is still a

52:14

ongoing investigation, you know, technically, but

52:16

it's pretty much cold.

52:20

Yeah. Yeah. And

52:24

so let me tell you, speaking of

52:26

cold, Nikki, I would like a frosty cold

52:29

margarita with tahine on the

52:31

rim in Texas because cold cases are so

52:34

infuriating and not my favorite. Especially

52:37

like, I don't mind doing a cold

52:39

case if I have like a real

52:41

hunch who done it. Yeah.

52:44

You know, but in this

52:46

case, you don't know. I don't know.

52:48

Yeah. Okay. Right.

52:51

It's Springfield. The so-called one

52:53

of those. Yeah. It's one

52:55

of those. This safe all

52:57

American city seemed

52:59

to have a whole bunch of kidnapping,

53:01

rapey murderer types residing there in 1992

53:07

on top of grave robbing.

53:10

You know, it's not sounding

53:13

like a very nice place except

53:16

the house went to high school. Brad Pitt went

53:18

to high school there. Yeah. And the prices are

53:21

house prices are decent. Yeah. Okay.

53:24

Another redeeming thing about Springfield is

53:26

their claim to fame is being

53:29

the birthplace of route 66. Okay.

53:32

There, there is this really cool

53:34

old Sinclair gas station there with like the,

53:36

you know, the whole old like, I know.

53:38

I love that. Yeah. I do love a

53:42

gas station. So

53:47

they have that going for them and hopefully a lot

53:49

more, you know, crime-free stuff.

53:52

Gosh. This case

53:54

is still so

53:56

infamous that the

53:58

current owner of

54:00

the house on Del Mar Street, where

54:03

they disappeared from, says

54:06

he sees people doing

54:08

the slow drive up and down

54:11

past his house on the regular. Yeah,

54:14

I'm sure. Trying to figure it

54:16

out. And also the likes

54:19

of crime junkies, I don't know if you've

54:21

heard of them, and

54:24

other real big deal true

54:26

crime people have

54:28

covered the missing Springfield

54:30

three. And so he notices

54:33

that when it gets attention like that, he

54:35

gets a lot more looky-loos. Yeah,

54:39

I can imagine so. Wow,

54:43

okay. By

54:45

the way, you're looking real tan

54:48

upon your face, girl. Thank you.

54:51

Yeah. Well,

54:55

I have been using the panty drops

54:57

from five crimes, Luminous

55:01

Lust. It looks really good. Also,

55:06

seeking of Nikki. So Nikki

55:08

has a daughter that has

55:10

been using the Luminous Lust

55:13

drops also. And she's like, I can't

55:15

use anything else because they are

55:17

my favorite thing ever. And so

55:19

I just got in the mail

55:21

her order. And

55:25

then Nikki was complaining

55:27

about losing her

55:29

hair as we all do as we

55:31

age. And so,

55:34

except for me, my hair is so thick

55:36

right now. Oh my gosh. So I got her

55:38

the scalp serum from

55:40

five crimes. And, you know,