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2:04

. This is crazy that it's the first time that you have

2:11

been a guest on this podcast. Uh, Hustle Fluidchart.

2:14

And how long have we been working together on this show?

2:17

Dude, we started working together 2019.

2:20

So like five years. Yeah, it's

2:22

That's crazy. So long time in the making

2:25

dude, yeah, about time. So, I don't know why Matt and I never brought you on.

2:30

I know we talked about it. You did the shorts, like we had this whole separate podcast that You ran,

2:35

which you were the voice, you were the head, head honcho of that one.

2:38

The pod shorts, we called him, right? Yeah, it was like hustle and flow shorts.

2:42

And yeah, it was just like Small condensed down versions and stuff.

2:45

So yeah, that was fun and that was like You guys got me going

2:50

on that pretty quickly right after I started working with you.

2:53

So Yeah, cause I think Matt was doing a lot of the editing of

2:56

this show for a long I mean, he that's how we start we started.

2:59

He did that side of things, and I did more of like the connecting,

3:02

bringing people on, and that's how we divvied effort efforts up.

3:05

And then Yeah, you were the first one that we ever brought

3:08

in to help with editing. I think we might have had someone before, but never to

3:12

the level that you dedicated your time and attention to and,

3:17

you know, took us to video. I know it was a big piece and then, yeah, the shorts thing,

3:22

and then it turned into what more the, the other media that

3:25

we're starting to put out. Made it, made us feel like a real show, you know, but, Dude,

3:31

so the fact that you're on here, and like, we're working

3:34

together, it's changed over the years, we'll talk about that too.

3:37

Man, we've all learned a ton. Obviously Matt's not here now, but we still all collaborate.

3:42

And he'll be on the show, uh, very soon, if not already,

3:45

depending on the release schedule. So, um, you guys are kind of in charge of that, Jake.

3:50

So. Um, yeah, man.

3:53

I don't know. I want it. tomorrow Like, I could record it day in and day out.

3:58

Um, dude, it's just like, you have a cool background.

4:02

I want to, I want to talk about like, your journey into this role.

4:06

And like, how, how that all came to be.

4:08

But also like, what you've done for yourself.

4:10

Because, you're not just working on this show.

4:13

You're doing, you have a lot going on that I'm

4:15

probably not unaware of too. And you have, like, you've become a resource that I go to, but also

4:21

clients of mine, partners, people on this show go to you for perspective

4:26

of media, you know, equipment stuff.

4:29

I feel like that's the my, it's more of like the strategy too.

4:32

Like we've just collabed for so long and I don't know, like

4:36

tell me a little bit about Jacob Gooden first and like how the

4:39

hell you got into this crazy world

4:42

That's a good question Cause yeah, I, every, like every morning and

4:46

I, when I get to work, I'm like, how, how the hell did this happen?

4:51

Um, but yeah, like it really goes back to, I'm 27 now, but around

4:55

like 15, 16, I worked in a music studio in a recording studio

5:00

and that's what I wanted to do. And uh, and then also around that time I started listening

5:04

to podcasts, but podcast wasn't like what I wanted to do.

5:07

I just, I wanted to work with musicians and, uh,

5:10

went to college for that. Audio engineering was not the thing, so I switched to

5:14

a business degree with an emphasis in the music industry.

5:18

And, uh, yeah, and then I moved to Nashville.

5:22

And that industry is like fucking hard to break into so I was like,

5:26

I was like, Oh, shoot, I'm screwed. Um, and worked in restaurants and just like hated my life pretty

5:32

much just worked anything I could. And yeah, I worked in a barbecue restaurant and I had worked

5:37

in coffee and it was fun. And I look back on it and I'm like, there were tons of people.

5:40

enjoyable elements, uh, but it's not for me.

5:44

And I applaud anyone who works in the, you know, restaurant

5:46

industry, you know, kudos to you. Yeah.

5:49

And thank you. Um, you know, but, uh, yeah.

5:52

And then, so working there, I really, I

5:54

realized that I wanted out.

5:57

So I was like, okay, I gotta, I gotta figure out what I want to do.

6:00

And marketing kind of seemed like the thing. And so I found some free classes online.

6:06

Uh, through, it was called, uh, Gen M at the time, and now it's called,

6:11

it's been rebranded it's Acadium.

6:13

And basically it was like free marketing, classes, digital,

6:16

uh, Stuff content creation type things and then they have a

6:20

piece of it that you can become an intern and work for you It's

6:23

like 10 hours a week for three months or something like that for

6:26

free, but you get a certification And that can lead to jobs.

6:31

They've built it out a lot more now where they actually have some

6:33

more like degree like programs but it was at the time it was

6:38

really new or it felt new to me and So all of the people who had

6:42

reached out to me to ask like, oh, do you want to be my intern?

6:45

I was like, well I want a job after this.

6:48

So are you going to hire me or is it just like you want free work

6:53

and then I'm out kind of a thing. And your ops manager at the time, Shannon, she was the only

6:59

one who was like, well, there's maybe a job in it, but it was

7:02

very like loose kind of a thing. And I was like, okay, well.

7:06

And you guys were a podcast and I listened to podcasts. I was like, you know, I was just attracted to it.

7:11

And, uh, and yeah, so I, I posted on social media for you guys, I think

7:15

was like the first thing and then, yeah, started doing the shorts.

7:19

And then what really, I think set me apart to you guys was you had

7:23

an emergency with an edit that had gotten like screwed up and I

7:28

got a call at like, Eight in the morning or something like that.

7:31

And it was Shannon being like, can you fix this?

7:34

And I was like, uh, maybe sure.

7:36

So spent 15 minutes whipped up something really rough.

7:41

I hated it, but I was like, okay, whatever. It's something for them to post.

7:44

And then I have to go to work kind of a thing. So I sent it.

7:47

And then while I was at work, I got a call. Or I got a text that said, uh, you did great.

7:51

They're super impressed. And that was it.

7:54

And then, uh, shortly after that, you guys were like, Oh yeah, we

7:57

just want you to be our editor. I was like, Oh, okay, cool.

8:01

So that just all kind of spiraled.

8:03

And then, like you said, we started pushing video, you know,

8:06

anything that we wanted to work on, we just kind of were like,

8:09

you guys would hand it to me and say, Hey, we kind of think we

8:11

want to go down this rabbit hole. Like, can you research it a little bit and figure

8:15

out what we need to do? And, um, so that kind of just set me on the trajectory of like

8:20

podcasting, video, content creation, you know, being a resource for

8:25

people to come to, to kind of like, Ask those questions, right?

8:28

How do I get started with this or how do I make a transition?

8:31

You know? You became useful very quickly to us.

8:34

I think that's the overarching thing that I'm hearing and

8:37

what I remember of those times. I mean, we're, they're like blurry days, honestly, to me now.

8:42

Because, like, things have changed so much.

8:44

But The fact is that you were immediately useful,

8:48

useful from day one. And yeah, in, in that time I do remember that, that emergency edit,

8:53

uh, because Matt was doing it and for whatever reason, either he

8:56

couldn't do it or something else happened, or maybe, maybe it was

9:00

another editor, but I don't think so either way, it, um, you stepped

9:04

in, we're like, trust him now.

9:06

Like totally trust him. Uh, we see what's possible.

9:10

So I think that was the hardest thing for us to get out of our own

9:13

way, you know, we were so used to doing it all ourselves, or, I don't

9:17

know, just like, obviously we had Shannon, so yeah, those were the

9:20

days, um, and Shannon's, Shannon's awesome, no longer, uh, is part of

9:24

the company, but she's, she's cool, and she was great, cause she got us

9:28

systemized in a way that we never were before, so that helped us start

9:31

to delegate, and like, bring you in, and bring help in, that, that,

9:35

It's like, our brains were too big for our hands, I guess, to, like,

9:39

we couldn't execute everything. So,

9:41

Yeah, I, I think it helps to that.

9:43

I had come because I wanted to work in the music industry.

9:47

What I wanted to do was manage bands.

9:49

And so I had done that in college and that's like,

9:53

you're working with creatives. Well, creatives are like, They're, you know, I know you just had Justin

9:58

Breen on and like the visionary thinking and like, it's like the

10:01

head in the clouds kind of syndrome where like, you're really good at

10:04

thinking about I want to do X, Y, Z, but then the implementation process

10:08

is like completely lost on you because you're just like, I don't

10:11

know where to even begin, right? Because there's just a million things going on in the head.

10:15

And so that's where I sit just skill wise.

10:18

That's where I've sat for a long time. And so I can look at something and kind of hone it in a little

10:22

bit more to be like, okay, well we can't do it all at once, but

10:24

like, let's start somewhere. Right. And, um, so I think that's what has made me useful, not only

10:30

to you guys, but other people as well as just that ability to

10:33

kind of go, okay, well, I think step one is let's do this, you

10:37

That's it. And, and that's where, I mean, I know that's a massive, uh, benefit.

10:42

Like, it's, we did that very well.

10:45

I know you, me, and Matt would, like, brainstorm once

10:48

a week or twice a week, or twice a month or something. Um, I don't know what a cadence, but That's where we realized,

10:53

oh dude, Jake has this different perspective and approach.

10:58

And I know you were learning a lot of the marketing stuff

11:00

from the, the, just the conversations alone, right?

11:03

Like the episodes you were editing. Absolutely.

11:06

I tell people every day, my job is I get paid to learn stuff.

11:09

And cause I listen, I work on shows, not only your show, but

11:11

like worked on dating shows and the tech industry and comedy and

11:16

like all these different aspects. And so I'm like, well, I get paid to learn shit all day long.

11:21

What better job is there than that? Right? Like,

11:24

It's true. I mean, that's, it's a pretty killer spot to be in, man.

11:28

And yeah, you're first to hear it. You're, you're hearing kind of the, the raw take of it as well.

11:33

I feel like podcast lends itself, but also you're, you're seeing

11:36

the unedited versions, which are probably even more fun.

11:39

a hundred percent. so without, we don't need to go into all the details because obviously,

11:43

you know, we worked with Matt, uh, you, you, me, Matt together.

11:46

There was this period of time where, you know, Matt and I did this crazy

11:49

little shift in our business, in our, in our podcast, which, uh, pros

11:55

and cons to that, we'll just say. You know, and the podcast, it shook a lot of things

11:58

up in terms of brand. I know we lost a lot of listeners.

12:02

Also, I know a lot of people stayed and got some new ones, too.

12:06

But you, during that period, what you, you kind of played around in

12:10

that, um, cause we did the whole pit for folks who don't know, uh,

12:14

this show, it was marketing business kind of pivoted to web three,

12:18

this whole Crypto gaming element.

12:21

I mean, this is just a lesson to be like, Ooh, okay too far guys

12:25

But you also kind of navigated in that space We won't go down that

12:29

track but like you picked up the video side really well like you

12:32

started doing the YouTube thing and Learning a bunch on that side with

12:37

some other folks in the industry yeah, no, it was huge because it was like switching from an

12:42

audio centric show that we did have a video component to it,

12:45

but it was like, YouTube was not. It was never like the big push.

12:50

It was kind of like, we kind of wanted it to be, but I think we

12:53

were just struggling to figure out what that looked like. And then, um, yeah, so to switch to, I worked, uh, for

12:59

web, some web three guys. So it was crypto and NFTs and all of the big, bad, naughty words that

13:04

a lot of people get turned off by. Um, but what I did for them was I was more of a producer.

13:10

They did live content. So it was a lot of live video and live audio.

13:14

And. Yeah, I really just like, I helped them develop their show

13:18

more and create segments in it, and then I was responsible for

13:22

post, once the show had ended, going in and clipping and adding

13:26

timestamps and really optimizing for YouTube to try to get

13:29

traffic after the fact, right? Because if anyone has ever livestreamed before, especially the

13:33

beginning, you understand that like, you don't get a lot of traction,

13:36

you don't get a lot of engagement. Um, it's, but sometimes you can get good viewership after

13:41

the fact, you just have to optimize the episode for it.

13:44

And so I did a lot of that. Playing in that space.

13:48

Um, I worked for a data company where we, it was all like, it

13:51

was the most boring data podcast of all time, but, um, but

13:55

learned a lot with them because they were LinkedIn forward.

13:57

So they were like doing live streaming on LinkedIn, which is a totally different beast than YouTube.

14:01

Right. And so I had my hands in these other things that I was like, well,

14:05

I'm not editing audio anymore, but I'm still doing something kind

14:09

of in the podcast E type space. And so again, learning new skills and just putting myself

14:14

in a room to be like, Okay, yeah, let's just figure it out.

14:17

You know, they want this, I'll make it happen kind of a thing.

14:20

And that got me pretty far.

14:22

I would say, Again, you're useful, man, like, and if there's a trait here for

14:27

anyone starting off, you know, or trying to break into the scene

14:30

anywhere, I mean, that's the biggest thing that I noticed with you, uh,

14:35

is just being useful in general and being useful to people who,

14:39

um, are gonna pay you, but also like you're useful to this whole

14:44

space because now it's like you're useful to a whole bunch of our

14:47

clients, partners, people, people. Obviously other people you're working with as well.

14:51

Um, go to you as that source of information and because you had the

14:55

experience now and it's like pretty dang wide but also specialized and

15:00

that's what I want to get into is like what So your role, I guess,

15:04

like, let's talk about like what you're doing right now, where

15:07

you're at with things, because you teach me stuff every single day.

15:11

You're, you're talking with some of the tool, uh, teams, like Descript,

15:16

for instance, how we, we edit all of our podcasts and produce it, or you

15:20

do mainly, um, is, you know, it's, you're, you're seeing what's coming.

15:25

You're actually giving feedback to them. So, Um, I guess talk about like what, what your typical role

15:32

looks like, because I want to say this because there's a lot of

15:35

people that are probably watching, listening that maybe have someone

15:38

on your team or maybe want someone on your team like you, like

15:42

a producer type that, or even editor, because they're maybe stuck

15:46

in it themselves or they don't know what to do, where to start.

15:50

Yeah, and we can talk about like, the levels of where we can, you

15:53

know, kind of how you can stair step into that, but, cause you

15:56

have a very unique skill set, and I think it's super valuable

15:59

for most business owners here. yeah, absolutely.

16:02

So I think that a lot of people, first of all, let's define

16:05

like editor and producer. Right. Because, um, I've had a couple of people recently who have

16:10

reached out and they're like, I need editing services. And I'm like, great.

16:13

And we jump on the phone and we have a conversation. And then I send them my, my costs and they go, whoa,

16:19

This is like way too much. And I'm like, well, what do you mean?

16:22

Like you're also, you're getting all this value out of it.

16:25

And they're like, well, I'm just looking for somebody that I could send them timestamps and they're just going to cut stuff out and

16:30

they're going to do whatever. And I'm like, Oh, well then we don't, we don't fit well together

16:33

because I'm like, My goal is not only to do that for you, but

16:37

it's also to look at your show as a whole and, and attempt to

16:41

try to make it better, right? There's going to be a period where I'm only going to edit and we're

16:44

going to, I'm going to be learning how you do your thing, but then

16:47

there's going to be a producer side. And that's where the, like I said, the producing kind of comes into

16:52

it, where it's like, we're looking at what's in the industry, what's

16:55

hitting really hard right now. And then how does your show, can we mimic it?

16:59

Can we. Copy pasta, some of it, right?

17:01

What can we do to like pull some of that, um, into your show,

17:06

you know, and so if someone's not open to that, then like,

17:10

for me, that's not, we're not going to work well together.

17:12

But for some people, for some editors, the, like, they're just

17:17

going to get a list of notes. Right. And, um, and that's the way that you work.

17:21

Right. And I think a lot of people at the beginning, um, who

17:24

are hiring an editor for the first time, that's how they're going to work is, is that.

17:27

They already know what they want to do because most likely they've been editing their stuff already and they have a

17:31

flow and, and all those things.

17:35

Then there are the people who don't know what they want. Right.

17:37

And they need somebody who has that visionary thinking to kind

17:39

of be like, okay, here's what we can kind of make out of this.

17:42

Right. And then in coaching you on like, well, let's try this, you know,

17:46

and see if it works and see if it resonates with your audience.

17:48

And sometimes it will go really well. And sometimes it'll be a complete and utter flop.

17:52

Uh, I think of like, yeah. Early on when I was on your, when I was working on your show, we redid

17:57

the intro music and we all loved it.

18:01

We thought it was fantastic and it still is a sick beat, um, to this

18:04

day, but it wasn't the beatboxing intro that everyone was used to.

18:07

And people were like, I want the beatboxing back.

18:09

Uh, and it made sense. It was fine. People were used to it, but it was just, we took a shot in the

18:14

dark for something that we were like, eh, this could be better.

18:18

Um, but the audience didn't like that. Right.

18:20

And so. But that was kind of a call that we had made together, right?

18:25

We were working together on. So, um,

18:28

Which has me thinking in my brain, because I'm like, it's a totally

18:31

different There's not really Because that was just a beat.

18:33

I just like beatboxed. It's like, I used to pump up my dog with that.

18:41

For some reason, she loved it. I'm like Why don't I have it on here anymore?

18:45

I'm like, I know it was Matt and I on there as the intro, but,

18:48

um, I'm like, I can apply it here still, just redo the words.

18:52

You know? It's got me thinking, dude.

18:55

Alright, go on. Sorry. so that's, I think, like I said, kind of creating that differential

19:00

between what is an editor and what is a producer is important because

19:05

sometimes people know what they're looking for and sometimes people don't know what they're looking for.

19:08

And that's again, where the producer role comes in.

19:11

Like I said, most of the people I work with, they're

19:13

looking for a producer. They're like beginning of their show.

19:15

They're looking for best practices, that kind of thing.

19:17

And, and I can't make all those decisions for you.

19:21

It's still your brand, but. Um, you know, and, and my pivot really came with like,

19:26

I worked with you guys. And at the beginning I was very much like, well, what

19:29

do you want done to this? Right. And then, and then it slowly evolved into like, Hey, I have

19:34

this idea, like, and me being kind of scared to like pitch it.

19:37

And then you guys went, yeah, go for it. You know?

19:39

And so it's made me be more vocal about let's check, let's change

19:43

this and that, um, to, to make the show better potentially.

19:47

Right. I think it's the best feedback when you do that.

19:50

And I suggest, uh, and I know it's tough at first because you don't

19:54

know, like, I What are they going to be receptive to or what am I,

19:57

but like, I think it's the best thing when anyone on the team does

20:01

that, you know, Brooke on the team or Katie, you know, we have them.

20:05

I totally like the fact that you're on the team, I trust you,

20:08

you know, and I feel like anyone listening, if you hire someone,

20:10

I hope you trust them as well. And you want to have that, that two way conversation and

20:15

open feedback because like everything's open to change.

20:19

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, if it's siloed and it's just being one one way

20:23

directed, then we can quickly become irrelevant, you know, if

20:28

we're just too much in our box. And that goes back to, know what you want when your hiring somebody.

20:34

If you really .. just want an editor who's gonna you're going to tell them every

20:37

change you want done and they're just going to implement that.

20:40

That's great. You know that and you can find somebody who does that because

20:43

there's a lot of people. There's a lot of editors who that is.

20:45

That is how they operate. They're like, tell me what to do, and I will make it happen.

20:49

Um, but if you need more than that, right, then

20:51

you need to include that. And I think that's where people get lost.

20:54

And then they have issues with hiring.

20:56

You know, their first person is also when it's your business,

20:59

it's really hard to let go of Yes.

21:01

I have that within my own business is like training new people to

21:03

do what I do is like, it's really hard for me because it's like,

21:07

but I'm just, I just do it, you know, it's just, I know it.

21:10

Um, and so it's like hard to let it go, you know, and then, well,

21:14

if it comes back and it's not, To my quality standards or whatever.

21:18

It's like, well, you know, like I could have just done it and

21:21

then it would have been right, you know, but so knowing what

21:23

you want can be really helpful. And one thing that I do, and I encourage a lot of

21:28

business owners to do is like. When I book, when I, uh, work with a new client, we always do

21:34

a test at the beginning and it's like, for me, it's one episode.

21:38

So I'm going to do one episode. You get a discounted rate.

21:41

You know, and at the end of it, if we, if one of us isn't

21:45

feeling it, we can just walk away. And it's all good.

21:47

There's no hard feelings. Um, you know, and if it goes really well, then, okay, do

21:51

you want to do a second test? Do you want, like, then we kind of negotiate.

21:55

Maybe then we do, the second test is like, hey, let's do six episodes.

21:59

You know, and so kind of keeping it in that window of

22:01

like, we're getting to know each other, and we're getting to like, work as a team, and figure out what that looks like.

22:06

You know, that can be really helpful as well for a lot of people.

22:09

That's kind of what Google is like. because you hire somebody, it doesn't, you know, you set

22:13

the, you can set the rules. Right. And a good editor will also know that they, they have limits

22:18

and they, you know, hopefully communicate those really well.

22:21

That was a thing I struggled with for the long time was

22:23

like, I just needed money.

22:25

So I would take anybody and everybody. It's like, now I can be choosy about like, I know who I work

22:30

well with and things like that. And so I can be picky, you know?

22:35

It's good, and you should. Yeah, it's tough. In the beginning, of course, be scrappy.

22:40

Uh, be, be useful still. You know, still have that same mindset.

22:44

I think that always carries over, no matter what phase.

22:47

But, yeah. Being choosier and knowing your, your lane.

22:51

Yeah, work with anybody and everybody because again, you never

22:54

know what you're going to learn and if you're in a bad, if you

22:57

end up in a bad working situation, you just leave, you know, and

23:01

that's easier said than done. But like, um, but you just do it, you know, just like

23:06

go get something else to do. It's fine. You know, you, you be okay.

23:09

And then take the lessons that you learned. And so you know, looking at your next potential client

23:14

who's coming in, Okay. Are we going to work well together?

23:17

Are these green flags waving in the air?

23:20

Are they red? What, you know, do I need to proceed with caution?

23:23

All those types of things you learn from your mistakes, right?

23:25

It's like, I've been doing this for five years. I still make mistakes on the regular and I got to suck up and own it.

23:32

But like, I've also learned enough that like we can't,

23:35

I can, I've avoided a lot of mistakes now at this point too.

23:38

So. Oh yeah. And you're right, because like, if it's not fitting for, and I

23:42

just actually recorded a solo on this, you have not heard it yet,

23:46

but it's like, check yourself. Make, like, do a little self audit, and it's like, are you feeling it?

23:51

Is it aligned with your goals, with whatever you're working on?

23:54

Even in the early days, like, Don't work with assholes, for one.

23:57

You know, but like, they're red flags. You know, uh, Dan Ryan, who is a good buddy of mine, likes to

24:03

say, red flags come in bunches. Like, they, they come in, they come together.

24:07

There's not just one of them, typically. But if there's two, ooh, shit, watch out.

24:10

You know, and, get out, because you're okay.

24:13

And it's about you. Like, you got one, YOLO.

24:16

You ain't got one life, as far as I know. So, uh, make it, um, Joe Polish, you know, I was just hanging

24:22

out at his Genius Network. He calls it easy, lucrative, and fun.

24:26

ELF. Like, create those types of experiences.

24:29

And it's easier said than done. And some people, like, laugh at that.

24:33

Kind of go, haha, yeah, make it easy, make it lucrative.

24:35

I'm like, no, I'll fucking do it. Like, there's nothing stopping you from doing that.

24:40

Because we have control, more than you think.

24:42

Yeah, a hundred percent it's yeah.

24:45

And it's a tough lesson to learn. It's tough, but it's what it is.

24:49

All right, so You define the editor producer thing and I think that's

24:54

super helpful because that is kind of an unknown I didn't know that

24:57

for a long time either but to have that elevated kind of producer

25:00

role is super helpful I'm kind of curious of because there's like

25:03

two things I I think would be good here is is kind of like what we've

25:08

learned in terms of stair stepping into content like we're having a

25:11

little pre conversation on this and And also You know, we'll get

25:15

into trends and tools and the stuff that we think are like the best

25:19

to kind of keep your eye on, maybe start using, experiment with, but

25:23

like, let's talk, let's, let's talk about maybe what we're doing right

25:28

now, but also talk about like, cause I, I think that we're due

25:32

for a shift in terms of focusing on what we can do really well.

25:36

Um, because it's easy to spread yourself and go everywhere

25:41

with the AI tools that we all have access to now.

25:45

Where it's like, you know, you got audio, you got video, you

25:47

could have all the clips, the shorts, you could be on social,

25:49

you could be on all these networks. And then it's like, where the fuck's my time?

25:53

You know, it's like, and then you look at your analytics, you're

25:55

like, um, what's working nothing or maybe one thing, you know,

26:00

it's like, how do we refine and really focus on the right stuff?

26:03

Hey I'm going to pause the episode really fast and shoutout

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26:30

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26:34

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27:37

so, you mentioned the stair stepping thing, which is what we were talking

27:39

about before, and I, I watched a video recently, um, I cannot

27:43

remember the guy's name, to save we'll find the reference I, yeah, I'm gonna find it, it'll be in the show notes, if not, just,

27:49

don't blame Joe, it was my fault, um, But I think it was one of the

27:53

guys who worked on, at Think Media, and he had, it was like a five

27:57

stage approach to content creation. And he was speaking specifically for video creators, but, like,

28:03

stage one was like, just record something and publish it.

28:06

Like, no editing, no, like, don't go fancy with it, just

28:09

like, you have to get something out in the world, right?

28:11

And then, there's stage two, which is like, You

28:14

start to refine it, right? You've worked that muscle a little bit.

28:16

You start to refine it. Maybe you're writing a script.

28:19

Maybe you're like doing minor editing, you know, but like very

28:23

minimal, you know, and, and then stage three was where you really

28:28

start to pivot into content creator level where you're like, I'm editing

28:31

my content, I'm creating thumbnails, I'm starting to hone in on maybe

28:35

one or two social media platforms, but you're taking it more seriously.

28:39

And you're. Not that you weren't taking it seriously before, but

28:42

you were just trying to get those muscles working, right?

28:44

And now you're taking it to like, now I'm going

28:46

to the next level, right? And so, that level 3 is that big, it's a big pivot.

28:52

And then level 4 and 5 kind of go hand in hand, but it's

28:55

the, it's the furthering. That where you're like AB testing thumbnails and you're like on

29:00

every platform known to man. And you're, you're kind of like doing the Gary Vaynerchuk approach.

29:04

Right. And then you're getting to like a Mr. Beast level where you're like, my videos are doing like 30

29:09

million views and I have a team of 30 people who work for

29:12

me and these amazing things. Right.

29:16

Most people think that they got to start around level three or four, right?

29:19

Where you're like, just are going, you know, you've got good thumbnails

29:22

and you've got good this and that and the other, it's like, no, you

29:24

just actually have to start with like making good content, making

29:28

something that's valuable to somebody, even if it's five people,

29:32

you know, and that's been like kind of a big shift in my head.

29:36

Um, Because I produce for a lot of people, but I suck

29:40

at making my own content. And that's just the reality of it.

29:43

And I'm going more and more that route where I'm like, okay, I

29:46

need to like make my own content. But because I make such polished stuff for other people.

29:51

Yeah, of course I can jump the line a little bit, but I, this week I

29:54

realized I'm like, nah, fuck that.

29:56

Honestly. Like, I just need to like post a video or I just need to like do

30:00

something, um, that's rough and tumbled, you know, it's because

30:04

I don't have Those muscles yet of like actually creating the content.

30:08

I have the muscles of editing the content. And so, you know, but once I get comfortable with the content

30:14

creation Porsche, then, you know, my editing can be leaps and bounds

30:18

of ahead of some other people. Um, things like that.

30:21

But yeah, I think it's just starting where you're at, you

30:24

know, and just, you deliver value.

30:27

You're going to find an audience. Um, that's, Whatever your topic is, there's riches in the niches.

30:32

We said that before we were recording, you know, and

30:36

finding your people is like, it's, it's hard, but it's

30:39

also like, not that hard, you It's not.

30:42

But you gotta start by putting stuff out there. And I know we both helped launch shows, we've consulted with people

30:49

in various stages, but it is a very common thing in the early

30:52

stages that almost people forget. Everybody wants, it's like, we need to be everywhere.

30:56

We need to be omnipresent, or whatever, like, just show up

31:00

everywhere in all the channels because that's what Gary says,

31:03

Gary Vee, or, um, I've said that sometimes, but at the

31:08

same time, Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

31:12

And um, you know, like for the longest time this podcast, Us

31:16

on Flowchart, was audio only. And obviously all podcasts was mainly audio only.

31:21

And we always struggled with long form video podcast stuff.

31:26

I mean, and honestly, most people do still to this day.

31:29

Even though YouTube's pushing things more and more, there's um, yeah,

31:34

there's ways to do it correctly that I'm still learning, we're still

31:37

learning, but At the same time, it's like, well, how about hone in

31:41

on the channel that's doing really well, like, double down, triple

31:43

down, even more, because that can grow, and I think, well, I'll just

31:48

talk about, like, my, myself, and I know why Matt and I, back in the

31:52

day, started to do it, but why, it's like, you get this bigger

31:55

reach, you know, and it's like, oh, then that looks attractive to you.

31:58

So, yeah. If we're maybe trying to attract bigger guests onto our podcast or

32:02

maybe um, maybe get sponsorship money or Further and try to get

32:07

more, uh, you know affiliate or product sales whatever conversion,

32:11

you know It was Alex from Mosey, he just posted a video recently

32:15

talking about, um, you know, he's another one that, you know, puts

32:19

it out there and is like, Hey, put content everywhere, make a shit ton of videos, put them on all the channels, you know, talk

32:24

about all walks of your life. Like he was talking about everything, not just business.

32:28

It'd be like his relationships and all that stuff too.

32:30

And he realized, Oh, well it's actually the videos that are on

32:34

YouTube, not the shorts and all these things that are converting.

32:37

The ones focused on. And, and actually like in line with what he is selling.

32:43

So, you know, he realized all that through his experiments for like

32:47

a year plus or whatever, cranking hundreds of pieces out a week,

32:52

you know, or whatever it was. And I think a lot of people put that as like, Oh,

32:56

that's the bar, like Gary V.

32:59

Alex or Mozy, they're so loud and they're everywhere and

33:02

they have a lot of awareness. But does that matter?

33:04

Like, is it getting you to the point of what you're actually looking for?

33:07

Like the what's the KPI that matters?

33:10

Is it leads, conversions? Are you going for the views?

33:12

You better be fucking good if you're gonna do that. You need like millions if you're going for that creator,

33:17

kinda, you know, style. Yeah, a hundred percent.

33:21

No, because yeah. Mm-Hmm? one thing I realized in the, in the time that we didn't work

33:25

together and I was working on that data analytics show that

33:28

was primarily on LinkedIn, they were crushing on LinkedIn.

33:31

They'd get thousands of views on these videos.

33:33

And I was like, what the hell? Like, it's the most boring state it's data stuff.

33:38

It's a hyper specific use case scenario.

33:42

The people who need that use case exist on LinkedIn.

33:45

And so they had figured that out and they were like

33:48

honing hard in on LinkedIn. I came in my dumb ass self and I go, we need to be everywhere.

33:55

We need to be on YouTube and we need to be over here.

33:58

And they were kind of thinking along those lines.

34:01

And that wasn't, I'm not going to say it was the worst idea ever.

34:04

We did some really cool stuff. We were able to like push some stuff on Tik TOK that did well.

34:08

We were able to like focus on YouTube to a degree

34:11

where it did reach a new audience and stuff like that.

34:14

But it was. It was interesting because it went from, they started to lose focus

34:21

of like LinkedIn being the primary. And it was like, don't bite the hand that feeds you.

34:25

Right. You know, and they're not necessarily making money

34:27

off of it, but they're getting thousands of views.

34:30

They're getting all these reshares. They're getting, they're doing well on this platform.

34:34

And then we just took it for granted. And we went and focused on something else.

34:38

That's again, what you're talking about is like, don't, don't, um,

34:43

Harm the thing that's like feeding you just to go pursue something

34:46

else because that's what you think you need to do And so I've been

34:50

telling more and more people that it's like when they get started.

34:52

It's like just Let's pick two areas that you want to be on, right?

34:56

If it's an audio only show, then we're gonna just

34:58

like, audio only, okay? So what's that secondary niche that we need to hit for you?

35:03

Like, where's that secondary platform? Is it Instagram? Is it YouTube?

35:07

I like, it could be kind of hard to kind of determine what

35:11

it is, but it's like, okay, let's run some experiments.

35:13

Let's see what, where your people are.

35:15

Um, you know, I have a use case right now where I work on a

35:18

show that is, is a, um, It's kind of a therapy show, um, it's

35:23

called Seven on Sundays, and they talk to a lot of people.

35:27

women and men who have been like sexually abused or been

35:31

in traumatic environments. And so it's kind of a therapy session and it's

35:34

anonymous and stuff. So videos out on that one, because, um, you know, sometimes

35:40

we have to do voice changes on people and stuff like that.

35:42

And we use, um, you know, they, they fake names and all this stuff.

35:45

So, but we're like, where else can we put this besides

35:49

just an audio platform? Okay. Well, is it.

35:51

Instagram. Is it, you know, and then how, how do we do that?

35:55

Right? It's like audio grams don't work for everybody. But in this case, maybe audio grams, we're doing, you know,

36:01

audio over some B roll footage that we created from AI, you

36:04

know, so we're testing that out to see what that looks like.

36:09

I don't know if it's gonna work yet. It's a test, right?

36:11

And but we were like strategic, you know, when we sit down and

36:15

brainstorm about it We're like, what is the one platform that we

36:17

think this would actually resonate? It's probably Instagram It's not gonna be LinkedIn, you know, you

36:22

can't we can easily get that one out But you know, so honing that

36:27

in and then yeah, like you said not feeling like I gotta be everywhere.

36:29

That's It's a it's a time suck You

36:34

It really is. And I think you're absolutely right.

36:37

I like the fact that Okay, if you're creating content, I

36:41

still think that video, like the way that we're recording

36:43

right now is using Riverside to record our audio and video.

36:47

Now, does that mean our video needs to be the forward facing

36:51

thing that we know that, like, we gotta deck this suckier out

36:55

and make it look like a Mr. B's video or Alex's?

36:58

No, hell no. And the audio is the core.

37:01

It's, it's the, it's the core of everything.

37:03

And, um, And I don't think that's ever going to change

37:06

on this show, at least on this specific show, because

37:10

It's where the foundation is. It's established. Uh, but at the same time, it doesn't say You know, uh, well back to,

37:17

I was getting ahead of myself. It's like find the core thing.

37:20

So if it's YouTube, that's cool You know, like there's a lot of

37:23

great benefits to having a show on YouTube It's got the platform, that

37:26

whole bit that can help you spread, algorithm Um, and And I think a

37:31

social platform, which YouTube is a social platform, but yeah, like

37:36

something like you said, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, X, could be that

37:41

too, because I know that helped Matt really push out his YouTube channel,

37:45

is that he fed it through X.

37:48

Because that audience, the AI audience, tech audience,

37:51

is on X, or Twitter. You know, LinkedIn, I know a lot of folks are starting to find

37:55

us more on LinkedIn and we're seeing traffic come that way.

37:59

Instagram for us? Eh, like that's probably one that I'm going to suggest that we end

38:05

up dropping unless we can automate, which we'll talk about, like a

38:09

tool like Opus or something that I can just like, you know what,

38:12

we're making the clips anyway. F it, push it out there.

38:15

You can schedule that out. No one has to manage it.

38:18

Like, I think it's just like, don't distract our resources.

38:22

But even that is probably not totally necessary either.

38:25

Um, but yeah, like, I, I think doing the tests are smart to

38:30

figure out like what's your core, but then what are the platforms

38:33

I can help kind of introduce you to more people, you know, that,

38:36

that has that social element that can kind of spread the word.

38:41

The other key thing there is like, don't bite off

38:43

more than you can chew. I was, I was having a talk with my wife this morning because

38:48

about if we're going to make YouTube videos or we're going

38:51

to do whatever for our personal brands, what, what is the time

38:55

that we can commit to this, right? Is it one video a week?

38:58

Is it one video a month? Is it one video every six months?

39:01

Like, One every six months is not a good idea, but, but one

39:06

a week, that's pretty doable for a lot of people, twice a

39:09

month, that's pretty doable for a lot of people, you know?

39:12

And so finding whatever that level of like commitment that you

39:15

can, uh, you can do is awesome because as soon as you start to

39:18

see returns on that investment.

39:21

Then it will inspire you to do more of it.

39:23

Right. And so you go from, I'm doing one video a week to, Oh, now I'm

39:27

doing two videos a week to, Oh, now I'm paying the bills to now

39:30

I'm doing three videos a week. And then, you know, maybe it stops at that, but then, and maybe

39:35

then I'm focusing on Instagram or I'm focusing on vertical

39:38

video or, you know, whatever. You make the pivots and the changes as you go.

39:43

And that's, what's cool about content creation is like, we never know what's going to hit.

39:46

So like. You just gotta try shit, you know, it's like people want a formula

39:50

of like the get rich quick thing.

39:53

It's like Everybody does. No It's it's about it's about finding your people, you know

39:59

who will buy your product or buy the products that

40:01

you promote, you know, um

40:04

two, two notes I want to, I wanna say to, to kinda put a bow in.

40:08

Everything we're doing is like, for one, and, and you know,

40:11

maybe we do a little rapid on the trends and tools is, uh, make it

40:16

your own and have fun with it. That's something that you and I have been talking about a lot.

40:21

Again, ELF, like the whole easy, lucrative, and fun.

40:24

That applies here as well. Like, there's this tweet that I, I shared with you

40:27

by, uh, from Greg Eisenberg. And he has a podcast that's now called, what is it, Startup?

40:33

Ah, Startup something. Uh, he just changed the name.

40:36

Point is, like, he, he has redefined his own, he changed

40:40

it to the Startup Ideas Podcast.

40:43

And it was something else before. A hundred episodes in, he basically got bored with his show and like

40:48

renamed it and changed the way that he talks on the podcast.

40:52

He doesn't compare himself to interviewers like Tim

40:54

Ferriss and Lex Friedman is what he was saying here.

40:57

And um, essentially made it his own.

40:59

He made it goofy. He made it fun. He started giving out awards to the startup company.

41:03

Like, you know, just kind of creating his own thing with it.

41:07

And, uh, it honestly got my creative juices flowing, that's

41:11

what it says it did for him. And actually, what do you know, the metrics go up too, because

41:16

you're having more fun, it shows on the podcast, and you're not

41:19

following some script or what you think you should be doing.

41:23

Like, you're making it your own. So you connect with your audience, you're putting yourself out there,

41:27

um, the guy's like recording on a laptop, in a, A pretty crappy

41:31

mic, I think, and like, looks like a goofball half the time it

41:34

looks like, but he's having fun! You know, it's like, so you don't need this crazy studio

41:39

setup that you see a lot of people, the creators doing with

41:41

like, lit backgrounds and all this fun thing, like It's cool.

41:45

I've caught in my head and stopped me from producing content

41:48

because of all that shit too. It's like No need just just literally can walk

41:52

outside with your iPhone. Maybe make it decent audio And you can probably create a pretty

41:57

good show just walking around your backyard or down the street

42:00

You know if you really wanted to and probably catch attention.

42:03

100 i mean like I'm in my living room, dining room, like, there's

42:08

a TV right there, there's a It's real that I didn't pick up, it's like very real, um, and I don't know

42:14

if you can see it, but there's like garbage over there, you know, it's like, I just kind of said fuck it this morning,

42:18

you know, it, yeah, exactly, how disrespectful, um, yeah,

42:23

The one time I give you on this show, and then

42:25

my gosh, yeah, never coming back again, um, But yeah,

42:29

to your point, it's like, start with what you've got. Um, was it Chris Kermit says, who's always like, start messy.

42:35

Is that, is that who? Start ugly.

42:37

That's what it is. Yeah. Start ugly and clean it up as you go.

42:40

You know, and very much to your point is like,

42:44

and cause you never know.

42:46

You never, it's, it's people resonate with people.

42:49

They, you know, the average person is not sitting there watching

42:53

a video going like, Oh my god, there's an empty Starbucks cup,

42:56

like, sitting in the background. Like, pfft, who cares, you know?

43:00

you saw what's on my desk right now, you would be like, Damn,

43:02

that Joe's a messy son of a But, you also

43:05

look at Einstein's desk when he died, and it was thick

43:07

of shit all over the place. Not compared.

43:12

But yeah, and, and yeah, people resonate with people and they can

43:15

forgive like the flubs, right? The ums, the ifs, the uh, I, you know, there's double takes in here.

43:21

Um, there's going to be stuff that I cut out of here and it

43:23

will be obvious that I cut it out. Um, that's on me.

43:27

Um, yeah, and that's the hardest part about editing yourself.

43:30

So I'm like, ah, fuck. was gonna say, you might have your wife help you out with this one.

43:35

Yeah, yeah, I'm going to make her do the first draft because, uh, yeah.

43:39

But. How you doing, Maddie? But, uh, yeah.

43:42

And to your point, like, like the tools are easy.

43:45

Pick up your phone. You don't need a microphone, you know, as you, yeah.

43:49

Pick up, I had Continuity camera, right?

43:52

On the continuity camera from your iPhone. Like, yeah.

43:55

Like I, that's the easiest piece.

43:57

I always just tell people, like, you can just start with your phone.

43:59

You gotta, most people have a laptop computer.

44:02

They can, you know, write a blog, you know, whatever

44:04

you need to make content. It's like. It's right there in front of you, you know, um, just do it.

44:10

You do not need to go buy 400 camera, 600

44:14

cameras are more than 400. What am I talking about?

44:16

But like, you don't need to go spend a bunch of money to

44:19

make some really cool stuff. Those tools help once you've already.

44:24

muscle. You're in the pattern. Right. And then it's like, Oh, okay.

44:28

Yeah. Me going and buying these wireless mics to hook to my phone

44:31

would make life so much easier. Okay, great.

44:33

Then you go do that. Right. Um, buying a podcasting mic, you know, this is like

44:38

the easiest investment I say for a lot of people.

44:41

It's like, it's expensive, but I'm like, go buy them.

44:44

If you want to be a guest on podcasts, you know, start with

44:47

your just basic headphones. That's fine.

44:50

But then, you know, once you got six, six episodes into it or

44:53

whatever, go buy a microphone. It's, it's pretty cheap.

44:56

Most people can save up to grab one. You know what's funny, is um, I'm surprised you didn't notice this,

45:03

or maybe it just sounds really good. I am not using my good microphone.

45:07

I just realized that. Cause I, I tried to mute myself and I, cause I

45:11

coughed, but it came through. I was like, how did that come through?

45:14

I'm like, I'm using my freaking laptop microphone right now.

45:17

So, I don't know how many times that's happened because I hear

45:22

myself coming through the board. Um, We're rolling with it.

45:26

Yeah. See, pros over here, guys.

45:29

easy pivot, easy pivot into the tools right here.

45:33

We use Descript for all our editing. Descript has this amazing feature.

45:36

It's called studio sound. Most likely all of Joe's audio is going to be run

45:40

through studio sound. It's going to sound like it actually came out of his pod.

45:43

Mike, it didn't came from his crappy laptop speakers.

45:46

It's all good though. We're going to make it, we're going to make it roll,

45:50

you know, make it work. So. man, that's great.

45:52

I was just like, you so Well, to be honest, I did, I did a podcast interview last week.

45:59

I got on the call, nothing worked. I had spent hours the day before, like prepping everything for myself.

46:04

None of my shit worked when I got on the call.

46:06

It was like, my mic was muted and I couldn't figure

46:09

out how to unmute it. And like all that stuff, stuff happens, people.

46:12

It's all good. Like you just, just roll with the punches.

46:15

It's all good. You know? and now I'm taking away.

46:17

Oh no, the microphone's actually just for my own ears.

46:20

. Actually, I'm the only one that can Ah, geez.

46:23

Yeah, if you're watching not video, it is just crazy.

46:26

All right. Yeah. Moving on. I'm embarrassed. . It

46:30

But see, but you guys will hear, you'll hear the difference.

46:32

Maybe I'll leave, maybe I'll leave a segment in this, in this portion.

46:36

How about this? I'll leave a segment of Joe without the studio sound.

46:39

You guys can hear how god awful his audio is going

46:41

Check, It can't be that bad. I haven't complained about it.

46:44

Um, and then, uh, and then we'll, we'll hear what studio sounded.

46:48

You guys can, you know, comment below.

46:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please let us know what you think, man.

46:54

Alright, so hit us with the, um, So yeah, Descript, Main Tool,

46:58

obviously, Video, Audio, there's so many options, but keep it

47:01

simple at the end of the day. Um, What are some of these other tools like with AI that,

47:07

like, Descript, honestly, like, you are pretty tight

47:09

with their company, and they're coming out with a ton of stuff.

47:12

So, that seems like the good, like, foundational tool that

47:16

Absolutely. If you're going to edit, record, you want to do podcast

47:19

interviews, um, vertical video, like Descript is really easy.

47:24

What makes it amazing is it's like editing a Word document,

47:27

which most people know how to do. A lot of people get intimidated by like timeline,

47:32

um, style of video editing. So Descript makes it really easy.

47:35

June 4th, they're rolling out a huge redo of like everything.

47:39

Um, so depending on when this episode comes out, most likely after

47:42

June 4th, it's going to be June 4th. All of that will be accessible.

47:46

They have a ton of AI functionality. So like they have chat, GBT basically built into that thing.

47:52

You can ask for titles, you can ask for summaries, you

47:54

can ask it to find clips. Um, you can reformat everything you want.

47:58

Vertical video, horizontal video. You want a square video, whatever you want, you know, if audio only.

48:06

It's an insane tool, like, go check it out if you're thinking

48:09

about doing any level of editing. They also own Squadcast, which, we're using Riverside, but it's

48:14

basically the same as Riverside. Um, it's basically, um, An amped up version of Zoom, um, so to speak.

48:21

And, uh, it's great. If you have, um, if you have a podcast and you have an editor

48:25

and you record with Zoom, do them a favor and, uh, get

48:28

Riverside or get Squadcast. Um, they will thank you very, very much.

48:32

Um, that's my little plug there. And then, like, yeah, I mean, tool wise, like,

48:37

ChatGPT's freaking fantastic.

48:39

We talk about cast magic all the time. We use that. daily.

48:43

Um, I'm sure you are too. Uh, basically AI tools to help us like take already existing

48:48

pieces of content like this and make written versions of it, find

48:52

clips out of it, like do titles, summaries, all that kind of stuff.

48:57

Amazing tool there. For me personally, one that I use on the, on the regular at this

49:02

point, Fathom, um, I don't know if it's a dot IO or dot AI, but.

49:06

I'll find it Fathom AI basically is a plug in for Zoom calls, so when I'm doing

49:11

coaching, um, things like that with people, uh, I have that going.

49:16

It's basically an automated, it's a, it's another person who comes

49:19

into your Zoom call with you. It's your note taker.

49:22

And after the fact, It breaks it all down and makes a summary.

49:25

It does checklists. It does all kinds of things. You can plug it directly into chat, GPT or clot or whatever you

49:30

like and have it pull more stuff out there, but it's fantastic

49:33

because I can assign people to do things and then I can send them

49:37

an email with a followup that says, Hey, here's your to do list.

49:40

And also like, here's my to do list. Like that way we can keep each other accountable.

49:44

Um, fathom. video.

49:47

That video. Okay. Yeah.

49:49

That and that video, that's like in my daily rotation, but yeah, the

49:52

script and that are like my two, just like big time go to, you know,

49:58

and then your phone, like, right. You just, the video, there's a ton of tools out there.

50:04

You know, if you want to go really deep on tools, like

50:06

reach out to me, like if you're looking for something specific,

50:09

I'm happy to chat with people. But, uh, yeah.

50:12

you nailed it, man, and the only other thing I would, I would

50:14

add in there is to, uh, this is what I presented the other day,

50:18

is like, capture your thoughts and organize them, there's

50:21

tools to do that, the oasis. com, I believe it is, that's the app I use, and it's on

50:27

the app store, uh, the oasis. com, yeah, is I think there's a free trial.

50:32

There's some minor paid upgrades, but the fact is you just

50:35

capture your thoughts wherever you're at, in your phone.

50:38

That's how I like to plan my solo episodes, or even drum

50:41

up ideas for a guest episode. So it's just a, it's a great way to get everything out of your

50:46

brain into some kind of format that you can create content from.

50:50

Yeah, 100%. You, you inspired me to do more of that.

50:53

I use Otter, but, um, I need to

50:56

try the Oasis. I haven't, but Otter was just, I already had an

50:59

account. So I was like, easy peasy. Um,

51:01

otter, similar idea, and then you just throw that into,

51:04

yeah, ChatGPT or whatever, for And

51:07

if you're like me and you juggle, or like Joe, and you juggle like a billion things a day, sometimes

51:11

just like speaking it into existence, it just gets it out of your brain.

51:15

And then you're like, okay, now I can focus. I like that.

51:17

Speak into existence. Well, I'm happy we did that here, and, um, Yeah, tech, tech gremlins,

51:25

or at least, uh, I don't know what the hell happened on the microphone

51:27

side of me, but it's great. I'm stoked we did this, Jacob, and we're gonna do more.

51:32

I have ideas on how we can, uh, We'll talk offline, but I want

51:37

to make it more fun and engaging these interviews and also make them

51:40

more shareable, you know, because I like the riffing and like these

51:43

kind of episodes where, you know, things that we're working on and

51:46

then talking about what we're learning, what we're not liking so

51:50

much, maybe things we're shifting has always been helpful for people.

51:54

I know that. So, um, let's

51:56

keep it It's real, right?

51:58

It's like, it's problem solving in real time to some degree and

52:02

then also like, you know, as an audience member, if you want to

52:07

hear something different, like let us know because, you know, or their

52:10

specific topic, we always shout out the, like the, um, the one

52:13

thing, right hustle and flow chart. com slash one thing like go there, let us know what you want to hear

52:19

kind of thing, you know, reach out to us, you know, we want to know how

52:23

to make this show better for you. Yep.

52:26

Always, man. So, thank you.

52:28

And, yeah, definitely reach out to Jacob.

52:30

Uh, we'll put a, I don't know, something in the show

52:33

notes or something, yeah, for them to contact you.

52:35

I'm the Jacob Gooden on all platforms, so it's that easy.

52:39

You can also just shoot an email to thejacobgooden at gmail.

52:42

com. Whatever works best for you.

52:45

You know, and that's, that's, that's the best way to keep up

52:48

to time with what I'm doing. And like, I have my own show coming out soon.

52:51

So I be on the lookout.

52:53

It's been a while, so, yeah, I'm stoked.

52:56

And, don't hesitate to reach out to Jacob.

52:58

He is the man. Obviously, you've heard it here, so.

53:01

We'll keep the fun going. Jacob appreciates you so much, man.

53:04

Um, yeah, we'll keep having fun together.

53:07

So catch you for having me. Five years in the making.

53:10

Five years in the making. Let's go. We made it happen.