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Subscribe now and get three months

0:28

free. Offer details apply. Hello

0:39

and welcome to Hysteria. I'm Erin

0:41

Ryan. And I'm Alyssa Mastromonico. Hey

0:43

Alyssa, here's a fun fact. Okay. Not

0:46

a single state that has banned abortion

0:48

offers paid parental leave. Who'd have thunk

0:50

it? Us? I know. Wow. Wow.

0:52

Got to put on my thinking cap to figure out

0:54

why that might be. So

0:56

this episode Alyssa, as they say, runs the

0:58

gamut. It's the best of us. We

1:02

love running the gamut. We've got

1:04

shoes special for running the gamut.

1:07

We talk about a wild

1:09

court ruling out of Alabama that could

1:11

have nationwide implications for anybody who

1:13

wants to use IVF. So much. So

1:16

bad. Absolutely crazy. We

1:18

finally got to interview Representative Judy Chu. She's been

1:21

on our list for a long time. She's a

1:23

great advocate. She is a wonderful representation of Southern

1:25

California. And I live very close to her district

1:27

and I'm sad I don't live inside of her

1:30

district. I know. We talk a little bit about

1:32

the year of the dragon. Talk

1:34

a little about the year of the dragon. And

1:37

then Alyssa, we also

1:39

get into some kind of, I don't know,

1:42

girly stuff. Oh. We

1:44

talk about online shopping. We talk about

1:46

dating apps. There is, like we said,

1:49

the gamut. Yes, the gamut.

1:51

But the online shopping and dating apps

1:53

conversation, to be fair, is about how

1:55

technology very slowly is ruining everything. Is

1:58

ruining everything and so much more. sucks our will

2:00

to live as it tries to extract more

2:03

and more profit from people. Yeah, that sucks.

2:06

And we also, Alyssa, you had a

2:08

really fun interview this week. Fun interview

2:10

with June Diane Rayfield. We talk about

2:12

comedy, we talk about acting, we talk

2:14

about reality television. Amazing.

2:20

And welcome back. You're listening to Hysteria, the

2:23

podcast for people who would never vote for

2:25

Nikki Haley, but deeply appreciate her

2:27

lighted on fire era. I

2:31

love it. I am so here

2:33

for it. She is like, like

2:36

the thing is, she's got self

2:38

awareness. Like she knows this is

2:40

sort of a kamikaze mission, but

2:43

she is going fully scorched earth

2:45

before she spends every last dime

2:47

she has. Absolutely.

2:49

I, you know, again, would never

2:51

vote for her, but I almost feel like

2:54

she's on a Nicole Wallace trajectory. Yeah.

2:58

Like, you know, Nicole Wallace worked for

3:00

George W. Bush, somebody who I had

3:03

absolutely nothing in common with politically

3:05

and still have very little in

3:07

common with politically, but has become

3:09

this person who like, everyone's

3:11

like, yeah, Nicole Wallace. She's, anyway,

3:14

so yeah, Nikki Haley, you've got

3:16

a show on MSNBC in your

3:18

future. And maybe

3:21

a nice movie. And maybe

3:23

a nice movie. We'll see. I

3:26

just, I really, I really appreciate the fact that

3:28

she's like, I'm not afraid of this guy. I

3:30

don't care. And then the Trump team is like,

3:33

she's going to come around and I truly don't

3:35

think she's going to come around. No, no, I

3:37

think this is it. Yeah, I

3:39

did have, you know, we've talked about it on

3:41

this show, the Veep Stakes, which is a poor

3:44

memento I hate. But we talked a

3:46

little bit about Donald Trump and who he might choose to

3:48

be his vice president and versus

3:51

who he might lead to

3:53

believe could be his

3:55

vice president. And he'll like, he'll like

3:58

convince them that they might be a pick for him. him

4:00

that person will debase themselves fully trying

4:02

to suck up to him and then

4:04

not get picked. He's got

4:06

a whole bushel of them right now. I mean

4:08

at least Stefanik. He gave

4:11

a short- Stefanik, the Vape, I

4:13

mean Nome, they're all circling. The

4:15

Vape is on his list, he

4:17

gave a shortlist at a rally

4:19

this week and Stefanik was not

4:21

on it. And have we

4:23

not been saying from the beginning- She's not working

4:25

hard enough. It's not that she's not working hard

4:27

enough, it's that Donald Trump doesn't have any use

4:29

for women who don't look like they should be

4:32

contestants in a Miss Universe pageant. Good point. And

4:34

that's the reason that he misses out on so

4:36

much female potential, not that Elise Stefanik is someone

4:38

I'm dying to see on the vice presidential ticket.

4:40

I just think she's a lot smarter than some

4:43

of the other people that are on that list.

4:46

And Donald Trump is a misogynist and you

4:48

know, but you know, whatever. Play

4:51

stupid games, win stupid prizes Elise. Okay.

4:55

This is a story, the more I read about

4:57

it, the more I'm angry

4:59

but also confused. Yes.

5:02

Okay. So in the words of 30

5:05

Rocks, Dr. Leo Spicemin, medicine

5:08

is whatever you want it to be. Or

5:11

at least it is when you're

5:13

a judge or lawyer who knows fuck all

5:15

about the mechanics of human reproduction, but is

5:17

attempting to make laws governing human reproduction anyway.

5:21

In Alabama, the Supreme

5:23

Court of Alabama

5:25

ruled that frozen embryos are

5:27

children for the purposes of

5:30

criminal liability. So that means,

5:32

Alyssa, if I'm driving down

5:34

a road in Alabama and I see a car teetering

5:36

off a cliff and there is a two

5:39

year old in one seat and a tray

5:41

of frozen embryos in the other seat, I

5:43

am morally obligated to save the

5:45

tray of frozen embryos because

5:48

I have saved more children, right? Yes.

5:51

Yes, that is what they've done. Sorry

5:54

Braxton, you're going off the cliff. I

5:57

figured that is that. Yeah. I mean, look, it's

5:59

a. It's a ridiculous precedent.

6:04

It's a ridiculous argument. I'm going

6:06

to read a little quick and dirty write-up of

6:08

the case from the Washington Post because it sounds

6:10

silly as I'm explaining it and I'm only making

6:12

it slightly sillier than it actually is. The

6:16

Post writes, The Alabama case focused on

6:18

whether a patient who mistakenly dropped and

6:20

destroyed other couples' frozen embryos could be

6:23

held liable in a wrongful death lawsuit.

6:26

Pause. Why was another patient

6:29

of an IVF clinic in

6:31

the back carrying around trays

6:34

of other people's em- Why

6:37

are the patients back there? It makes no

6:39

sense. This is crazy. Did this

6:41

happen? Like, is this another, like, is

6:43

this another, like, web, like, homophobic webmaster

6:45

situation who's like, hypothetically an imaginary gay

6:47

person might ask me to design a

6:50

wedding website for them and the Supreme

6:52

Court was like, yes, yes. Hypothetically, you've

6:54

been hypothetically harmed and therefore we're going

6:56

to make a ruling based around that.

6:58

This doesn't sound like a real thing

7:00

that happened. This actually sounds to me,

7:03

Erin, like, if you were a lawyer,

7:05

you'd talk to the patient, you'd be

7:07

like, should we actually bring this

7:09

lawsuit because now we have to cop to

7:11

the fact that there was a patient where

7:14

they shouldn't be? There was a patient among,

7:16

amidst the embryos. It seems like a lot

7:18

of things were overlooked in an effort to

7:20

bring this case forward. Or, I

7:23

mean, I don't know. It's just, it doesn't, this

7:26

is like not connecting like many of the plot

7:29

elements of True Detective season four for me. You

7:32

had thoughts on that. Yeah. I'm

7:34

going to let it go and I'm going to move

7:36

forward into my life from a place of peace

7:38

because I've already got enough on my mind.

7:40

But okay, so going back to the Washington

7:42

Post write up, the court ruled that the

7:44

patient could be held liable. So

7:47

the patient that dropped the tray of frozen embryos

7:49

who were for some reason back

7:52

in the IKEA display area

7:54

of the embryo

7:56

clinic, the court

7:58

wrote that it had long held that

8:00

quote, unborn children are children. And that

8:02

was also true for frozen embryos, affording

8:05

the fertilized eggs, the same protection as

8:07

babies under the wrongful death of a

8:09

minor act. It applies

8:11

to all children born and unborn without limitation, the

8:13

court wrote. It is not the role of the

8:15

court to craft a new limitation based on our

8:18

own view of what is or

8:20

is not wise public policy. That is

8:22

especially true, whereas here the people of

8:24

this state have adopted a constitutional amendment

8:26

directly aimed at stopping courts from excluding

8:28

unborn life from legal protection. Fuckin'

8:31

Alabama. Fuckin' Alabama, man. Like,

8:34

oh my God. But it gets a little

8:36

wilder, doesn't it? Yes, it

8:39

gets a little wilder. In

8:42

a concurring opinion that echoed that view

8:44

but through criticism, Alabama Supreme Court Chief

8:46

Justice Tom Parker quoted the Bible as

8:49

he examined the quote, sanctity of unborn

8:51

life. Nothing creepier than a pro-life old

8:54

man holding that. Or quoting the

8:56

Bible in court. In a court

8:58

ruling, medicine is not what

9:00

you want it to be, Chief Justice

9:02

Tom Parker, you fuckin' creep. He

9:04

wrote, human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring

9:06

the wrath of holy God who views the destruction

9:08

of his image as an affront to himself. Okay,

9:11

first of all, God is not a man. The

9:14

idea of Christian God is just taking the

9:16

whole concept of woman, rewriting it, making it

9:18

slightly shittier and make less sense and being

9:20

like, no, it was a dude. No. Even

9:24

before birth, all human beings bear the image of

9:26

God and their lives cannot be destroyed without it

9:28

facing his glory. Dude, have

9:30

you heard of miscarriage? Have

9:32

you heard of the fact that about

9:35

up to half of fertilized eggs are

9:38

discarded by the female

9:40

body? Just, because she takes

9:42

a look, you know, the uterus takes

9:44

a look, it's like, this is never

9:46

gonna become a baby. Discards it. Spontaneous

9:48

abortion. Miscarriage. A third to

9:51

half of all IVF fertilized eggs,

9:54

embryos, are non-viable and

9:56

will never be viable. No amount

9:58

of science magic. abracadabra

10:01

gobbledygook that you write in

10:03

a goddamn court ruling can

10:06

undo that fact but do

10:09

you think Aaron that

10:11

ye judge justice

10:14

Tom Parker is who we should

10:16

bring gun control

10:18

legislation in files no

10:20

I'm just saying if if

10:23

lives cannot be destroyed without

10:26

a facing his glory riddle

10:29

me back yeah death

10:31

penalty what's going on guys

10:34

come on where we at

10:36

where everybody involved everybody involved

10:38

gun manufacturers everybody and

10:40

so these couples these three

10:42

couples who in again the

10:45

weirdest story of all time somehow had another

10:48

patient at the clinic drop their embryos and

10:50

destroy them these three couples that are

10:52

suing over the destruction of their embryos could

10:55

have actually endangered access to

10:58

IVF for every definitely in

11:00

the state and about of Alabama and

11:02

possibly people in the rest of the

11:04

country we've

11:06

kind of sort of touched on IVF here

11:08

but I think that a lot of people

11:11

who are making laws and

11:13

proclamations around IVF don't really

11:15

understand like how it works

11:18

hmm you you think people are swimming

11:21

in the deep end without a flotation

11:23

device Aaron I feel

11:25

like I just I wish

11:27

that I wish that there was some

11:29

kind of giant audacity vacuum where I

11:32

could suck up all the extra excess

11:34

audacity from people who don't know what they're

11:36

talking about trying to make laws around human reproduction

11:39

IVF is a really awful process I

11:41

haven't gone through it personally but I know

11:44

so many people who have me to it

11:46

is physically demanding it

11:48

is emotionally taxing it is

11:50

expensive it's expensive and in

11:52

a lot of cases it's

11:54

heartbreaking because IVF gives you

11:57

the advantage over like that and I'm

11:59

gonna in quotes natural conception

12:02

because it gives

12:04

you the chance to pre-screen embryos

12:06

for genetic abnormalities before they're implanted

12:09

into the uterus and thus theoretically

12:12

increase the chance that

12:14

the embryo will be like viable

12:17

will turn into a viable

12:19

child. But the problem with

12:22

that is that in order for the pregnancy

12:24

to hold a lot of times the pregnant

12:26

person needs to have a bunch of shots,

12:28

be in a bunch of hormones, and

12:30

sometimes it just doesn't work. So

12:32

it's failure rate is, when

12:38

I first read about the failure rate of IVF

12:40

I was kind of astonished because of how expensive

12:42

it is. You're basically

12:44

buying a chance. You're buying a

12:47

chance to have

12:49

a child and the

12:51

fact that there is a new

12:53

wave of anti-abortion laws that

12:55

are targeting parents that just want

12:57

to have a chance is

13:00

like so cruel. Well because Erin as

13:02

we've talked about this turns everything, it's

13:05

like America can't have nice things right.

13:07

We find a way through science to

13:09

help people who want to have kids

13:11

be able to have kids and

13:14

now in theory I have not

13:16

been through it but you and I have talked about it. If

13:19

you go through and you take your eggs

13:21

to be frozen you want to get as

13:23

many as you can. When you fertilize the

13:25

end as we've talked about they

13:27

survive better if they have

13:29

been fertilized. So if they're

13:31

embryos versus frozen eggs. Exactly

13:33

and so the

13:36

best outcome is that you have

13:38

a lot of eggs and you can

13:40

fertilize them and you have a lot of frozen embryos.

13:43

In this instance with this law that

13:45

is not a good thing because

13:47

in theory what happens then if

13:49

you choose to implant two embryos

13:52

hoping for one or two babies,

13:55

the rest of them, what

13:57

do you do? Do you have to under this new law

13:59

do you have to adopt them?

14:01

Do you have to pay to store

14:03

them? What are you expensive? Do you

14:05

have to pay to store them forever?

14:08

If there's a failure of power or

14:10

something, you assume that these places have

14:12

loads of backup generators, and

14:15

the embryos get destroyed, what is

14:17

that? Who is responsible?

14:19

Who gets charged under this law?

14:22

This is some dangerous whack-ass shit.

14:25

Dangerous whack-ass shit. And I think, let's go

14:27

a little further and think about who uses

14:29

IVF and why anti-choice

14:32

abortion, anti-abortion zealots would be so

14:35

comfortable targeting it. People who

14:37

use IVF tend to be the

14:40

LGBTQ community, first of all. If there

14:42

are two women

14:44

who want to have a child together, there's,

14:46

you know, that's one way to... single moms

14:48

by choice. People who want to go about

14:51

being moms on their own

14:53

without a man. Older

14:55

moms, people who put off parenthood

14:57

for one reason or another. And Alyssa,

15:01

this one I don't think they're doing on

15:03

purpose, but cancer patients. Cancer patients.

15:05

If you are... Yeah, in the state

15:08

of California, if you have cancer,

15:11

your insurance is actually required

15:13

to, like, cover the cost of IVF before

15:15

you start. Which is an incredible benefit. Which

15:17

is an incredible benefit. But that's the thing.

15:20

That's the thing that a lot of cancer

15:22

patients, before they start treatment, will have, like,

15:24

as many eggs harvested as possible, and then

15:26

if they're married or partnered, they'll have them

15:29

fertilized before they're frozen so that they have

15:31

a better chance of one day becoming... I

15:33

know two women for whom that was the

15:35

case. I do too. I know two women

15:38

who had to have eggs retrieved, embryos frozen,

15:40

and both of them are now mothers because

15:42

of IVF. Mine too. So this is who

15:44

those lost target. I mean, it's pretty obvious

15:47

that these people don't want women to wait

15:49

to have kids. They don't want

15:51

us to have lives before we have children.

15:54

They don't want LGBTQ people to have

15:56

children. They don't want women who are

15:58

successful and... who have

16:00

decided to go do parenthood alone to have

16:03

the option to have children this way and

16:06

yeah like let's speed up on the cancer patients

16:08

while we're at it because they do need to

16:10

be taken down a couple notches. Right. Because anybody

16:13

does. Because really is this what they want to

16:15

do? They want to someone

16:17

has cancer, they retrieve

16:19

their eggs, fertilize embryos,

16:22

they have one or two implanted, they

16:24

have some extras left over and they're

16:26

like dear cancer survivor now we're coming

16:28

for you again. Like

16:31

that is pathological. I thought

16:34

you fuckers were worried about

16:36

the birthright. Are you

16:38

worried about the birthright or not? They

16:40

are such chaos they don't know what

16:42

they're worried about. Except Christian.

16:45

They're they're they really want

16:47

to bring us back to a time that

16:49

no longer exists by force. Yep.

16:51

And it is and you know

16:53

IVF isn't something that's accessible to

16:56

a lot of people. I think

16:58

that's important to acknowledge but it

17:01

is still something that is becoming more

17:03

accessible as more insurance companies cover it

17:05

and as more workplaces and like there's

17:07

more programs to access IVF. It's

17:11

really ridiculous that they're defining a fertilized

17:14

embryo as the same thing as

17:16

a human child and you know

17:18

it'd be one thing if this was just like

17:21

an isolated wacky incident. I

17:23

mean it would be tragic for the

17:25

people of Alabama. Oh no. But it's

17:27

not an isolated wacky incident because this

17:29

has always been part of the playbook

17:32

post Roe v. Wade moving forward for

17:34

a specific fringe element of the anti-abortion

17:36

movement. And just after

17:39

Alabama Supreme Court made this

17:41

ruling a anti-abortion advocacy group

17:43

in Florida tried

17:45

to use the case

17:48

that the Alabama Supreme Court ruled on

17:50

in front of the Florida Supreme Court

17:52

arguing that an amendment to

17:55

the state constitution that would guarantee access

17:57

to abortion should not be allowed

18:00

to be on the ballot this fall in

18:03

Florida. Like, Erin. Yeah.

18:07

They tell on themselves over

18:09

and over and over again. And they're

18:11

added in Kansas. They

18:14

are added in Kansas. There's a new bill in Kansas

18:16

that's kind of been flying under the radar that

18:19

wants to allow pregnant people to start

18:21

accessing child support immediately after conception,

18:25

therefore putting fetal personhood into state law.

18:27

Okay. Right. Sneaky as fuck. Yeah. And

18:29

you know, they tried something like this

18:31

in Wisconsin. And, Alyssa, the night of

18:33

and the days after Ohio's issue one

18:36

passed, there were a lot of conservative

18:38

pundits who were like, oh, we got

18:40

to do something. We got to do

18:42

something to come out in favor of

18:44

parents. And their dumb ass suggestion was

18:47

that they offer child support payments to

18:49

pregnant people. Never once, never once, never,

18:51

never once have they been like, you

18:53

know what, why don't we

18:55

offer like extra child care subsidies? Why don't

18:57

we offer paid parental leave? Why don't we

19:00

know? What they

19:02

want to do is redefine

19:04

fetuses, blastocysts, embryos

19:07

as children for the purposes of obtaining

19:09

child support, which I actually, I support

19:14

pregnant people who can give them

19:16

child support, but not because those

19:18

are children, but because they have

19:20

additional medical needs. Correct. And this

19:22

is just their jiggery-pokery to be

19:24

like, see, people like

19:26

it. At first blush, if

19:29

you're not reading the fine print,

19:32

it sounds humane, right?

19:34

That you can access extra

19:36

benefits when you're pregnant. Right.

19:39

But that's not what they're doing. Right. They

19:41

should make it about the condition of the

19:43

mother, not the status of whether or not

19:45

the fetus is a human or not.

19:47

Like that's stupid and we see what you're doing

19:49

and don't fucking gaslight us. We know what you're

19:51

doing. You're not helping anybody. You're

19:54

hurting people. And this is eventually going

19:56

to lead to people, and it has

19:58

led to, people being arrested, investigated. and

20:00

even imprisoned for miscarriages. Which, another group

20:02

of people in addition to cancer patients

20:05

that need to be taken down a

20:07

few notches, women experiencing miscarriage. Trauma. They

20:09

are so high on their horse. They're

20:12

having such a great, no, it is

20:14

like one of the worst experiences that

20:16

a person can have in

20:18

their life. Even if it's not

20:21

a pregnancy that you even knew about,

20:23

experiencing miscarriage is horrible.

20:26

And under laws that define a fetus

20:28

or an embryo as a person, somebody

20:31

experiencing a routine miscarriage could find

20:33

themselves the subject of an investigation

20:35

into how culpable they were for

20:37

a miscarriage. Right, exactly. Women who

20:40

have miscarriages already fucking blame themselves.

20:42

And it is almost never

20:44

their fault. And now, given

20:46

all this, can someone who

20:48

wants to investigate a miscarriage

20:50

go back and demand

20:53

to know what you ate? Demand to

20:55

know if you exercised? It

20:57

is the most invasive and

21:00

disgusting move. When

21:04

we didn't think they could get lower, they can. We should

21:07

never sleep on it. No,

21:09

because these assholes will never stop. We never get

21:11

to stop. And it sucks, but that's just the

21:13

way things are. Okay,

21:16

Alyssa, there was a ProPublica piece this week.

21:18

I don't wanna spend too much time dwelling

21:20

on it, but there was a ProPublica piece

21:23

that everybody should read. And

21:25

it was about the on the

21:27

ground impact of an abortion ban.

21:30

ProPublica, which everybody should support. Yep, they're

21:32

not a paid advertiser, nor should they

21:34

be. They should spend their money on

21:37

journalism. ProPublica, keep doing what

21:39

you're doing. ProPublica spent a year

21:41

documenting the life of Mayron Hollis, a

21:43

Tennessee mother who wanted to terminate her

21:46

high-risk pregnancy. By the way, Alyssa, her

21:49

high-risk pregnancy was that the embryo

21:51

had implanted in scar tissue from

21:53

the C-section. And when that

21:55

happens, as

21:57

the embryo matures, run

22:00

the risk of your body exploding. Totally.

22:02

I couldn't. Erin, reading this, I started

22:04

reading it last night and I'm like,

22:07

I actually can't read this before bed.

22:09

Like this is so catastrophic.

22:13

And when I read it this morning, if

22:19

people are feeling apathetic

22:21

about 2024, you

22:24

have to read this article. It

22:26

is the reason that we

22:28

have to stay alert and

22:30

active. And what

22:34

happened to Myron was literally

22:37

among the cruelest of

22:40

situations that I could possibly

22:43

imagine. She has

22:45

this medical emergency.

22:49

She's about to die. The doctor's

22:51

telling her how quickly someone can

22:53

actually bleed out. She starts to

22:55

bleed out. Her husband slips on

22:57

the amount of blood that she

22:59

has bled out. And

23:03

she has a baby three months

23:05

early who then requires medical

23:08

care, of course, in the NICU, not

23:10

near their home. No one is helping

23:12

her. She couldn't get the abortion she

23:14

wanted. And her life

23:17

has been so horrifically and

23:19

severely impacted by the choice

23:24

the state denied her.

23:28

I really just think

23:30

everyone who listens to our podcast should

23:32

read the whole article because it is

23:35

why everybody has to get out and vote for Joe

23:37

Biden in the fall. I

23:41

think it's also, here's something I've been seeing

23:43

that's been kind of annoying. Donald

23:46

Trump favors the national abortion ban. Yeah, let's

23:48

get into it. A lot of abortions

23:51

that take place past 16 weeks,

23:54

which is the line that he's suggesting, which is fucking

23:56

arbitrary. If you talk to any healthcare providers, they're like,

23:58

it makes no sense. 16 is

24:00

a number he pulled out of his

24:02

lardy ass and like decided because voters

24:04

think it's okay that's what medicine is.

24:07

Bullshit. A lot of abortions that take place

24:09

after 16 weeks take place

24:11

because of medical concerns or risks to

24:13

the health and life of a mother

24:16

or non-viability of the fetus or severe

24:18

issues that the fetus

24:20

would have after birth. I've

24:23

seen a lot of talk where that's like

24:25

yeah well you know Republican mistresses will still

24:27

be able to get their abortions if there's

24:29

a national ban. No, no. Right.

24:32

There's too many of them. That's the thing.

24:35

There's too many. Billionaire mistresses will be able

24:37

to get abortions. People who can

24:39

fly down to Mexico for a weekend who are

24:41

not in any kind of state of medical distress

24:43

because in a lot of cases if you're like

24:45

after 16 weeks and need an abortion you're not

24:47

going to be able to like hop on a

24:50

plane and go somewhere where it's legal. You

24:53

are not going to be able to

24:55

access abortion care if there is a

24:58

national ban. Unless you

25:00

are literally a billionaire's mistress.

25:02

I hate the discourse that's like yeah

25:05

well rich people are still going to

25:07

get them. No they're not. Rich

25:09

people in Texas aren't getting them. You're

25:12

not actually. And maybe a

25:14

few very lucky people

25:17

who are able and willing to take

25:19

huge risks will be able to get

25:21

them. But we can't

25:23

count on that. Your privilege won't protect you.

25:26

Your blue state residency won't protect you. If

25:29

your wealth won't protect you unless

25:31

it's like exceptional but even then your wealth

25:34

can't prevent you from having a medical emergency

25:36

that makes it impossible for you to travel

25:38

to a place where you can safely access

25:40

abortion care. Doctors are

25:42

not going to risk 99 years

25:45

imprisonment and six figure fines and

25:47

a loss of their medical license

25:50

to help a rich person. There is no way

25:52

that you can make it worth their while. There

25:54

is no way. Right. And this

25:57

is coming for you. As financially catastrophic as

25:59

it is. is for the

26:01

medical provider. Also,

26:03

what the ProPublica article took us

26:06

down the rabbit hole of is this

26:08

was a family that was largely living

26:10

paycheck to paycheck. They had some savings.

26:13

This decimated their savings, put

26:15

them $40,000 in credit card

26:17

debt, destroyed the credit rating

26:19

that they had worked so hard to build up,

26:23

and stressed their relationship to the

26:25

point that two people who were

26:27

both recovering from substance abuse fell

26:29

back into it. And every single

26:32

twist and turn of this story

26:34

was more stark

26:37

than the one before it. And cruelty

26:40

is the point, I guess, Erin. It's

26:43

really, really awful. And here's the thing. If

26:46

in the fall Joe Biden isn't reelected,

26:49

if we lose the Senate, which map

26:51

doesn't look good, we're optimistic. We're

26:53

optimistic. And I think the last couple cycles have

26:55

been a little bit disproportionately

26:58

doom and gloom about Democrats, especially 2018.

27:02

But I think if

27:05

we lose the White

27:07

House, like this is a realistic

27:09

thing that can be coming down

27:12

the pike. And we're going

27:14

to be having a lot of conversations, hetero men

27:16

who have sex with women. There

27:18

are going to be a lot of

27:21

women who are going to maybe expect

27:24

you to have a vasectomy. Permanent

27:26

birth control is going to

27:31

be something that more people are doing.

27:33

I don't understand what is the point

27:35

of this. Conservatives

27:40

complain about the birth rate and then

27:43

having children a fucking nightmare at every

27:45

step of the way. I don't

27:47

understand what do they think is going to

27:50

be the end result of this. Sit me down

27:52

and explain step by step how this leads

27:54

to a better future for this country, for

27:56

anybody, forcing people who are

27:58

on the margins already. to push

28:01

themselves into desperation out what what's

28:03

the point who

28:05

knows Aaron I guess

28:08

only that rich

28:11

white people procreate yeah but here's the thing we

28:13

are the least likely to not be able to

28:16

access abortion and I say we I'm not rich

28:18

I know I know I don't even own a

28:20

house but rich people

28:22

who are privileged and have access to

28:24

information education and access to resources and

28:26

nowhere to look and know who to

28:28

ask are the

28:31

ones who in Texas are still accessing abortion they're

28:33

still traveling out of state right they're still they're

28:35

still figuring out a way to get it done

28:37

you know who's not like teenagers teenagers

28:41

are not figuring out how to have is

28:43

that what you want to country you're trying

28:45

what they're trying to do is force this

28:48

sort of I hate it's

28:50

overdone handmade-tail references are overdone but I can't

28:52

not make that reference because it's you know

28:57

it's apt what they're trying to do

28:59

is is force the quote-unquote right people

29:01

to have children but what they're doing

29:03

is creating a population of people that

29:05

are more likely to need government services

29:08

while cutting government services without question it's

29:10

it's look galaxy

29:12

brain too early in the

29:15

morning to wrap my head around the

29:17

scope of their galaxy

29:19

brain I'm Alyssa what

29:21

talk about books let's

29:24

talk about books you want

29:26

to talk about some books

29:28

let's talk about books what's

29:30

going on with a book

29:32

for good in yeah girl

29:35

what's probably doing what you

29:37

doing Aaron the West Virginia

29:39

house just passed a bill

29:41

that would let people prosecute

29:43

schools museums and public libraries

29:45

for quote-unquote obscenity obscenity

29:48

how do they define obscenity

29:52

they know it when they see it Aaron they know it when

29:55

they see it so obscenity so like if

29:57

I were to pick up a book like

29:59

say the Bible There's a chapter in there about

30:01

how Lot's daughters got him drunk and raped him.

30:03

Is that a thing? Not that kind of a

30:05

thing. No, Aaron, that's the Bible, girl. That's not

30:08

infinity. Come on now. No. The

30:10

Lorax? Okay. The

30:13

giving tree? Wait,

30:17

does the Lorax fuck in that book? I didn't

30:19

think he fucked. No, but there

30:21

are subversive messages, Aaron. There are

30:24

subversive messages. Dendrophilia, he speaks through

30:26

the trees. That's code for he

30:28

fucks the trees. Obviously.

30:31

So currently those places are actually

30:34

exempt from being criminally liable for

30:36

obscenity, but Republicans sponsoring

30:38

the bill, they want to change

30:41

that, claiming that this will help

30:43

protect children from inappropriate materials. Again,

30:46

the giving tree. The giving

30:48

tree does have a huge cock though. I

30:51

don't remember it. I remember being a kid and

30:53

being like, look, the human body is beautiful, but

30:55

why does that tree have such a huge cock?

30:59

I mean, Aaron, like, look, they keep

31:01

saying that Virginia GOP, oh, they want

31:03

to ban books and woke reading materials

31:05

that they claim are bad for kids.

31:08

When in reality, the GOP is

31:10

just racist and homophobic. And I

31:12

just want to flag that under

31:14

the current state code for a

31:16

work to be considered obscene matter,

31:19

it must be lacking in literary,

31:21

scientific, artistic, or political value in

31:23

a whole. Okay. All

31:26

right. You know, I feel like

31:29

forward. I feel like out of

31:31

all the problems facing West Virginia, the kids are

31:33

reading too many books is not one of them.

31:36

I am going to agree with you on that one.

31:38

And I think that like, Aaron, this is just a

31:40

matter of them wanting to add as

31:43

much ambiguity. Let's call it

31:45

the equivalent of the abortion

31:48

and, you know, for the life of the mother

31:51

or in case of rape, which we all know

31:53

is a fake exception. They just

31:55

want to add more ambiguity, making it way

31:57

easier to scare the shit out of librarians

32:00

and make them so incredibly risk averse

32:02

that they're nervous saying one plus one

32:04

equals two. That's what they're trying to

32:06

do here. That's it. They've

32:09

got a limited time. Here's the thing. I

32:12

think Christian nationalists in this country have

32:14

a limited time before too many of

32:16

their voters die for them to ever

32:19

have power again. They're already a minority.

32:21

They're already using every dirty trick in

32:23

the book to cling to the power

32:25

that they have gotten in

32:27

a dirty way. There is a finite amount

32:29

of time whereas their most

32:33

ardent voters age and

32:35

die off, there's

32:37

no future for them. The only way for them

32:40

to have a future is for them to really

32:42

go for the brass ring right

32:44

now. I think that's what we're

32:46

seeing. We're seeing them attempt to make

32:48

it enshrined in constitutions

32:50

that embryos are children. We're seeing them

32:52

try to criminalize libraries. They're trying to

32:55

make it as hard as possible for

32:57

the next generation which is coming, coming

32:59

fast to undo the damage

33:01

that they've done. They're trying to do as much damage

33:03

as possible right now because they know their time is

33:05

limited. They don't have that much time left. I

33:08

know that's an optimistic, is it optimistic to be

33:10

like a lot of people?

33:13

I feel they're breeding

33:15

them. I know

33:17

that we've had some kind of

33:19

troubling stats about young men being

33:22

conservative about feminism but that doesn't

33:24

really translate to voting patterns. I

33:27

think that they know

33:29

that they just have a very limited time left where

33:32

it's even going to be feasible for them to grab

33:35

power and they're just trying to do

33:37

as much damage as possible right now. Well, conversely,

33:41

people with not much time left

33:43

do seem to have a lot

33:45

of time on their hands because

33:47

in addition to that, Aaron, they

33:49

have decided that we need a

33:51

whole new book

33:54

fair for schools. I don't know about

33:56

you. I grew up with the Scholastic Book

33:58

Fair. It was my favorite time of year. year.

34:01

If you were lucky, you eked out

34:04

10-15 bucks from your parents to be

34:06

able to go to the book fair.

34:09

Right. So there's a new book fair, is

34:11

it called the book unfair? Is it fair

34:13

too close to DEI? Oh,

34:15

don't you worry. It's called

34:17

Skytree Book Fairs. Sounds

34:19

benevolent, but it's not. The

34:23

company website says that they

34:25

formed Skytree Book Fairs as

34:27

a school choice alternative to

34:29

the sexually explicit content distributed

34:31

in scholastic book fairs.

34:34

Huh. Aaron, it feels

34:37

a bit like a money-making

34:39

opportunity piggybacking on laws

34:41

like the one they're trying to pass

34:43

in West Virginia, where they're like, oh,

34:46

we're going to scare the shit out

34:48

of school librarians and teachers about talking

34:50

about anything that we could frame as

34:53

dodgy or sexually explicit or woke or whatever

34:56

it is they want to do. But

34:58

now we're going to go make some

35:00

dalazala bills and have our own

35:02

book fair that sells the Bible. That

35:05

is, I'm

35:07

sorry, that's very, that's very stupid.

35:10

A conservative book, I don't understand.

35:13

I don't know. Are they going to have

35:15

like an alt? Remember Goosebumps books? I think maybe

35:17

they were like... They were, they were young for

35:19

me, but I remember when they came out. They're

35:21

going to have alt Goosebumps books that are supposed

35:23

to be scary, but in a conservative way, and

35:25

every single book is about a gay person being

35:28

nice to them. Imagine what

35:30

Skytree books would do to Nancy Drew. That

35:34

feminist bra burner. Nancy

35:37

Drew hears a swear. Oh

35:41

no. Nancy Drew walks past

35:43

the Satanic monument in the Iowa State

35:45

Capitol. What would they do when Ramona

35:48

Quimby was going through her tomboy phase?

35:50

I don't know, but do

35:52

you remember how people freaked out about the

35:54

film turning red because it alluded to the

35:56

existence of periods? Yikes. Periods.

35:59

Something that... happens. These

36:01

people are the most terrified babies

36:05

imaginable. But

36:07

here's the good news. Kids don't think school

36:09

is cool at all anymore. Yeah, no. So

36:11

I don't think that they're going to be

36:13

like, well, the school doesn't think scholastic book

36:16

fairs are cool. So I guess I better

36:18

listen to them because I always follow them.

36:20

I mean, if you and I were both

36:22

in middle school, wouldn't we just Google the

36:24

list of banned books and order them from

36:26

Amazon and then be the renegades by

36:28

our lockers being like, listen, I would have

36:31

started a club at the Lorax. I would

36:33

have I would have drawn like one letter

36:35

for each of the you know, I would have

36:37

come up with the name of the club, Bad

36:40

Readers Club or something. And then I would have

36:42

made a sign for it with one page of

36:44

spiral notebook paper per letter. And I would have

36:46

stuck it to the side of the school and

36:48

we would have met during recess and we probably

36:50

would have gotten in trouble. We probably would have

36:52

gotten in trouble. And I would have cried because

36:54

I never got in trouble. We I never got

36:56

in trouble. A little bit of trouble. But honestly,

36:58

you and I would have been such trouble together.

37:00

Nice. We would have we would have been starting

37:02

starting like intellectual positivity

37:04

club. It would have

37:06

been it would have been stupid. We would have been

37:08

it would have been like if Lisa Simpson was multiplied

37:10

by two and formed a street gang, that would have

37:12

been that would have been us. But

37:15

we would have thrived. We would

37:17

have absolutely thrived. We

37:19

have to take

37:21

a quick break

37:23

when we come

37:25

back and interview

37:27

with Congresswoman Judy

37:29

Chu. And welcome back.

37:31

You're listening to hysteria the podcast for people

37:33

who just know that the Year of the

37:36

Dragon is going to be their year. What

37:38

year were you born in? Alyssa? I was

37:40

the year of the pig. You know, I

37:42

tried looking it up online. I was like,

37:44

what years were

37:52

we but I couldn't tell you were on the cusp.

37:54

Yeah, I'm pig. You're a

37:57

pig generosity, generosity and

37:59

perhaps Too much generality. There is no

38:01

one the last year of the dragon than me. I

38:05

Don't know. I think you've got your own you've got your own power

38:08

Our guest today is a congresswoman from

38:11

Southern, California Representing the district

38:13

that covers Pasadena and the San Gabriel Valley

38:15

I could actually probably throw a frisbee from

38:17

my house and hit her district I

38:19

am so close to her district so so close

38:21

when she was elected to the position in 2009

38:24

She became the first Chinese American

38:26

woman in Congress Congresswoman Judy Chu.

38:28

Welcome to hysteria Thank

38:30

you for having me we are so

38:32

glad you're here how have this month's Lunar New Year

38:35

celebrations been for you well,

38:37

it was very joyous

38:39

but also very poignant

38:41

because it was the one-year anniversary of the

38:44

monarch park shooting so we had a lot of reflection

38:46

going on and yet,

38:49

it was so wonderful to see the crowds out there

38:51

because people were getting back

38:54

to what they should be doing which is

38:57

Being with each other and with the community

39:00

Mm-hmm. We were just in all Humber last weekend

39:02

celebrating and it was really there were so many

39:04

people out It was really cool to see what

39:07

does the year of the dragon bring? Can you

39:09

let our listeners know what it what it means

39:11

and why people sometimes get extra excited for years

39:13

of the dragon? Well,

39:15

the dragon represents power

39:18

strength and courage And

39:20

so I just hope that in

39:22

parts to everybody that they have

39:25

their own power Strength and courage to do

39:27

what they need to do to make this

39:29

world a better place Congresswoman

39:32

you mentioned the tragedy

39:35

almost exactly a year ago when the

39:37

shooting in Monterey Park killed 11 people

39:39

and injured 9 Right

39:42

in the middle of Lunar New

39:45

Year. Do you think that we

39:47

will ever get some reasonable gun

39:49

control in this country? Are you

39:51

optimistic? This is my fervent hope

39:54

Of course, I was very much for

39:58

measures that would improve gun

40:00

safety and reduced gun violence ever

40:02

since I got to Congress. But

40:05

the shootings in Monterey Park brought

40:07

it so close to home. This

40:11

shooter had a

40:13

high capacity magazine which he attached

40:15

to his semi-automatic pistols. And

40:18

so one thing is very, very clear. We

40:20

need a ban on assault weapons

40:22

and on high capacity magazines, which

40:24

is what allowed him to kill

40:26

11 people in

40:28

just a matter of minutes. But

40:32

we have that plus

40:34

so many other common sense things

40:36

that should be done. For instance,

40:39

truly universal background checks where we

40:41

close the loopholes. We

40:44

need to be able to close

40:47

the loopholes that allow the Charleston

40:49

killer to just get a gun

40:51

despite the fact that he shouldn't

40:53

have been qualified. But the three

40:55

days passed, there wasn't a background

40:57

check and so they just gave

40:59

the gun to him anyway. So

41:02

it's things like that that we can do

41:04

that will save lives and

41:06

that will move this country forward. We

41:09

clearly won't be able to get

41:11

something passed during this time period when the

41:13

House is controlled by

41:17

Republicans. They are so

41:19

much against any kind of gun safety measure.

41:21

In fact, they actually want to expand it.

41:24

They want to expand the access to

41:26

guns and have concealed

41:29

carry go across all states.

41:32

But I am confident that

41:34

once we are able to

41:36

get the House and

41:39

keep the Senate and keep the presidency,

41:41

that we will do what we

41:43

need to do. And that is make this a safer place

41:45

for all of us. We are just

41:48

sick and tired of this time

41:50

period where mass shootings are so

41:52

commonplace. They're almost happening every day.

41:55

Congresswoman last week, the mother

41:57

of Ethan Crumbly in Michigan.

42:00

was held accountable

42:02

for her son's

42:04

mass shooting. Do you think convictions

42:07

like that will help deter mass

42:10

shootings and do you think that they'll help

42:12

further push legislation? I do think

42:14

that she should

42:17

have been held responsible because she could

42:19

see that her son was deteriorating

42:21

and yet she participated in

42:24

obtaining a gun and

42:28

she has responsibility for

42:30

his actions as the

42:32

parent of a minor. So

42:34

yeah she should have looked

42:37

more carefully and known that

42:40

her actions would have terrible

42:42

terrible consequences. Congresswoman

42:46

you have been a longtime advocate

42:48

for reproductive rights. You've also got

42:50

a PhD in psychology which is

42:52

very cool. Trump just

42:54

endorsed a national abortion ban in some

42:56

states are trying to declare that frozen

42:58

embryos are the same thing as human

43:01

children. Can you make sense of why

43:03

the far right is so bent on

43:05

taking away bodily autonomy like overturning Roe

43:07

wasn't enough? Where are they going to stop?

43:11

So they are catering to their

43:13

base. There is a minority in

43:15

this country that is against

43:18

women making decisions over their own bodies.

43:20

They would like to take us back

43:22

to the Stone Age when your

43:24

body was not your own and in fact your

43:26

body is just a vessel for carrying babies. But

43:31

actually the majority of

43:33

Americans are for reproductive freedom

43:36

and that includes Republicans

43:39

and independents. All we

43:41

have to do is to look at

43:43

the states where abortion

43:45

bans were were blocked

43:49

or where abortion

43:51

rights were upheld and these are

43:53

really conservative states. In fact I

43:56

look at Kansas, I look at Ohio

43:58

but particularly I look at Kentucky, which

44:00

is one of the top 10 red

44:02

estates in the nation,

44:05

and yet they were able to block this

44:07

abortion ban. So

44:09

the Republicans speak

44:11

to their base, but

44:13

we always must remember that that

44:16

base is very small, loud,

44:18

but small, and that a

44:21

majority of Americans want

44:23

to make sure that women

44:25

have the ability to make decisions over the future

44:27

of their bodies. Yeah, the

44:29

base is small, but a lot of them seem to

44:32

be federal judges, don't they? You've

44:35

been working on the Women's Health Protection Act for

44:37

over a decade, which is now seen as a

44:39

comprehensive response to the overturn of Roe v. Wade.

44:42

How would this legislation safeguard reproductive rights,

44:44

and what needs to happen in order

44:47

for it to pass? So

44:49

the Women's Health Protection Act is something that I've

44:52

introduced since 2013, and it was because

44:55

we could see the day where

44:57

this would happen. We also saw

44:59

that states were chipping away at

45:01

Roe v. Wade by passing

45:04

laws that would erode the ability for

45:06

a woman to make those choices over

45:08

her own body, and

45:10

they were dictating the width of

45:13

clinic doors and saying that doctors

45:15

had to have admitting privileges at certain

45:18

hospitals when it was not necessary. So

45:21

the Women's Health Protection Act would

45:24

restore Roe v.

45:26

Wade as the law of

45:28

the land, and

45:30

it would prevent states from

45:32

chipping away at that freedom

45:36

by saying that states could not do such

45:38

things, pass such laws to take

45:41

away that freedom. And

45:43

I must tell you, this is

45:45

the most supported abortion

45:48

bill in the history of Congress. When

45:50

we were in control of the House, we did have

45:53

votes on it, and it

45:55

passed overwhelmingly with Democratic

45:58

votes. It passed out of the House. twice

46:01

and in fact is the most supported

46:04

pro-abortion bill in the history of Congress.

46:07

So all we need to do is keep the Senate and

46:09

keep the White House and flip the House and then we

46:11

got it. That is right. Well

46:14

there is another thing we need to do which

46:16

is to take away the

46:18

filibuster, at least for this.

46:20

Actually the

46:22

majority of senators are

46:26

for the Women's Health Protection Act but

46:28

the problem is this filibuster

46:30

which requires 60 votes.

46:32

So a super majority controls

46:35

the Senate. That means that

46:37

a minority has

46:40

outsized power to stop anything. So I

46:42

believe that it's time for the filibuster

46:44

to go. That's what stopped it the

46:47

last time. We have to remove it

46:50

for this vote in order to get it passed.

46:53

Congresswoman, we love the work you've been doing to

46:55

help the 48 million family caregivers

46:57

in this country especially with the

46:59

Connecting Caregivers to Medicare Act. Could

47:01

you tell us more about how

47:04

the legislation would help caregivers and

47:06

is it true that it is

47:08

bipartisan and bicameral? This

47:10

bill addresses

47:12

such a common-sense issue

47:15

that no wonder it

47:18

is bicameral and

47:20

also bipartisan. It

47:23

gives caregivers the ability to

47:25

have information on the persons

47:28

that they are caring for

47:31

if they are in Medicare. I

47:34

mean look how much responsibility caregivers

47:36

have. They have the

47:39

life of that elderly person

47:42

in their hands and

47:44

without easy access to their

47:47

information they are blocked from

47:50

properly being able to care for that

47:52

person. Now actually

47:55

caregivers have the ability to do

47:57

it now but most caregivers don't know about it.

48:00

So this bill would also mandate

48:02

that caregivers are

48:04

given the information, that everybody's given

48:06

the information, that there's a concerted

48:09

outreach effort to make sure that

48:11

caregivers sign up for this privilege. And

48:14

finally, let's go back to your local

48:16

work. How is the San Gabriel Valley

48:19

doing these days? And are there any

48:21

spots in STV or Pasadena that you

48:23

suggest LA-based folks check out?

48:26

Well, one thing I'm

48:28

very, very excited about is the San Gabriel

48:31

Mountains. And, you know, it was in

48:33

2014 when I was able to

48:37

get President Obama to declare the

48:39

San Gabriel Mountains a national monument.

48:42

It was a tremendous step forward because

48:44

the San Gabriel Mountains are so

48:46

beautiful and people go up

48:49

there to hike, to fish, to

48:53

camp, but to have picnics and

48:55

to just experience fresh air. But

48:58

the San Gabriel Mountains were in

49:01

bad need of resources. And so

49:03

that's why we got

49:06

President Obama to declare it a national monument.

49:09

So that was great. However, it

49:12

turns out that he declared 3

49:15

fourths of it a

49:17

monument. So 300,000 acres were declared the monument, but

49:21

the western region of the

49:23

mountains was not. And so

49:25

now we have a campaign to get

49:27

President Biden to declare the remaining

49:29

100,000 acres a national monument. And

49:35

we believe that'll be a big boost

49:37

to getting the resources that those

49:39

mountains need. So clearly that is

49:41

something that I would recommend people

49:43

go check out the San Gabriel

49:45

Mountains. There are so many beautiful

49:47

things to see up there. They're

49:50

absolutely gorgeous. If you're in LA, you can skip

49:52

the Walk of Fame, head to the mountains. I

49:54

think they're much better anyway. I'm

49:56

so happy to. Thank you so much

49:58

for joining us. a lot of fun

50:01

and happy new year. Thank

50:03

you so much. Hey,

50:18

this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy. Live

50:20

and uncensored, catch me talking with my friends

50:23

about my latest obsessions, relationship issues, and bodily

50:25

ailments. With that kind of drama that seems

50:27

to follow me, you never know what's going

50:29

to happen. You can listen to Jeff

50:31

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you're so lucky. It's almost planting

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season. It's almost time for me to... Well,

51:11

I'm shaped like a basketball that is inflating

51:14

slowly and I'm going to continue to inflate

51:16

slowly over planting season. I get it. You're

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51:24

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Okay. Some low effort, high

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yield plants that I'm not going to have

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to baby. What's top on your list? Well,

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honestly, herbs, even though you do have to baby

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those a little bit. I just need to have

51:38

those around. Herbs, lettuces, greens,

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kales, they grow really well in my

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garden for whatever reason. Is that any

51:46

fruit? Really? Oh, no fruit.

51:48

No. That's for farmers, markets,

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Oh I'm also doing peppers I'm

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52:50

make a habanero jelly. I tried it and it

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didn't quite gel last time but I think I

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Aaron do you know what I hate about my

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but Jovi has been

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I am in the not having

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upside of the downsides of

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pregnancy. It's like the one good thing.

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It's like I'm not having my period

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HISTERIA. Everybody

56:13

has heard that dating apps are bad now. This

56:15

is funny. This is, I mean, it's not funny

56:18

because I feel bad for people that are trying

56:20

to meet somebody right now. It seems like it's,

56:23

it seems like technology did what technology

56:25

does, which was take something that sort

56:27

of worked, break it, and

56:29

invent a worse version of the thing

56:31

that they broke. So now we're

56:33

stuck with like a left-bid version of what

56:36

already existed. Dating

56:38

apps. Cupid had

56:40

a bad Valentine's Day this year because on

56:43

his special day, six dating app

56:45

users filed a class action lawsuit

56:48

accusing Match Group, which owns

56:50

Tinder, Hinge, etc. I

56:53

didn't realize there was like big dating. I didn't

56:55

either. I didn't realize there was like a monopoly-ish.

56:58

Yeah, that's crazy. It's like Comcast. Abusing

57:02

predatory business models to intentionally

57:04

employ psychologically manipulative features to ensure

57:07

users remain on the app perpetually

57:09

as a paying subscriber. The

57:11

suit also accuses Match of violating its

57:13

consumer protection laws. And

57:16

then the lawsuit said it uses

57:19

addictive game-like features which lock

57:21

users into a perpetual pay-to-play

57:23

loop that prioritizes corporate profits

57:25

over its marketing promises and

57:27

customer's relationship goals. That

57:30

sounds right. That sounds right. I'm going to

57:32

say I met my husband on a dating app, but it was in the

57:34

year of our Lord 2018. And

57:37

I think things have gone downhill since. You know,

57:39

I had one experience with a dating app, match.com.

57:45

It was not positive. I

57:47

do believe I wasn't using it right and

57:49

probably could have used some of these boosters

57:51

they're talking about. Right. Right. Because I got

57:54

I did it with a friend. And

57:56

this is the year of our Lord 2005. Maybe.

58:01

That's when they first came out. That was when people were

58:03

telling you... It was the beta. It was like the beta.

58:05

Right. It was like the beta. But

58:07

back then there was this thing where you put your

58:09

profile up and you would get a wink if someone

58:11

thought you were cute. And

58:13

I checked in with my girlfriend and I was like,

58:16

Anita, what am I going to do? She

58:19

called me and she's like, how many winks did you get? And I

58:21

was like, what? I was like, oh, it looks

58:23

like I got one. And she went silent. And I was like,

58:25

wow, how many did you get? She's like 25. And

58:28

that was the day I went to the bathroom and cried in the

58:30

United States Senate. And I came back

58:32

and my boss was like, oh, are you

58:34

kidding? I was like, this is not what

58:36

I needed on the heels of a traumatic

58:38

breakup. And my boss came

58:40

back. I come back the next

58:43

morning and there's a card on my chair from

58:45

the man who was known as the 101st Senator. This

58:49

is not a man going out and buying cards, but

58:52

he bought me a card with a cat winking and

58:54

he just wrote inside, the only wink you need. Oh,

58:58

that's kind of sweet. It was

59:00

totally sweet. But I feel like

59:02

I am someone who if I

59:04

were 10 years or 15

59:06

years younger and was on the apps in

59:08

a very formative stage of my life, I'd

59:10

100% be boosting my profile and

59:12

using these bells and whistles that they're

59:14

selling an ancillary ad on. Exactly.

59:17

Well, it didn't used to be that way. Like

59:19

when I only had like a couple periods of

59:21

my life when I was on apps. And I

59:23

remember one was like a short period of time

59:25

in 2013 and then again in like 2018. And

59:33

I noticed a huge drop in

59:35

what you actually got in 2018.

59:39

There were these you could pay to like get a

59:41

boost in and that you could also pay to be

59:43

like a super user, a super swipe. And like, are

59:45

there all these things that were very gamified? But

59:48

they also it kind of fits

59:50

into the whole like in shitification thing. Like

59:53

something starts and it's kind of usable and you're like,

59:55

okay, I kind of like this. And it gets worse

59:57

and worse and worse as they try to skim and

59:59

scrape. more profits from people. And I've

1:00:01

seen a lot of consternation on social media from

1:00:04

people who are trying to meet somebody somebody

1:00:07

nice on dating apps

1:00:09

and they're finding like on hinge that they

1:00:11

have to pay extra money for

1:00:13

anybody to even see them and it's

1:00:16

just Also, I've heard

1:00:18

that there are so many men more men

1:00:20

than women on dating apps because so many

1:00:22

women have left dating apps Because men are

1:00:24

so awful. Right? Um that there are entire

1:00:29

There there's a kind of shadow operation

1:00:31

on some dating apps where it's

1:00:33

basically like troll farm employees Pretend

1:00:36

to be women on the

1:00:38

dating apps to keep the men that are

1:00:40

using the dating apps disproportionate number of men,

1:00:42

right? They keep them they think

1:00:45

that there's more women than there actually are

1:00:47

but you bonkers Yeah, dudes, you

1:00:49

might be chatting with like, you

1:00:51

know, 30 year old guy in the Philippines

1:00:53

who you know When he's when he's not

1:00:55

doing this he's leaving reviews on Amazon products,

1:00:58

you know like it's It's

1:01:00

it's like you can't you can't trust the

1:01:02

reality. No, I mean that makes so much

1:01:04

sense But it never would have occurred to

1:01:06

me that that's a thing I know

1:01:09

that's I think we're living in

1:01:11

an age where people are slowly

1:01:13

realizing how much of our reality

1:01:16

Exists online. Mm-hmm. And on top of

1:01:18

that how easy it is to manipulate

1:01:20

that reality Yeah, and it's it's a

1:01:22

little bit unmooring to be like Oh

1:01:25

shit How much of what I think is

1:01:27

real is actually something that was paid to

1:01:30

be manipulated by bots by fake accounts pretending

1:01:32

to be Women who are flirting with me,

1:01:35

you know, it's it's very it's very

1:01:37

strange and I Really

1:01:39

hope that there's like another answer for dating

1:01:42

apps There's something better that comes

1:01:44

along because I think people who sincerely

1:01:47

want companionship should have yeah way to

1:01:49

find it and If

1:01:52

you want to be by yourself be by yourself, but

1:01:54

if you want companionship, why doesn't technology actually helping you

1:01:56

find it, right? Stupid what's the point of technology? We

1:01:58

can't use it to learn like become

1:02:01

physically closer in ways that make us better.

1:02:03

I don't understand. I agree. I

1:02:06

guess the point is to make money, isn't it? Bummer.

1:02:09

Yeah. Capitalism, huh? Capitalism, I

1:02:11

know, right? 2024, year of layoffs.

1:02:14

Oh, speaking of capitalism. Ooh,

1:02:16

okay. I love and hate this

1:02:18

story. I felt urgently like we needed to talk

1:02:21

about it when I saw this. And

1:02:23

it was a couple weeks ago and then I forgot about it and then I

1:02:25

thought about it again and I was like, oh no. This

1:02:28

is just kind of interesting, right?

1:02:31

So I feel like

1:02:34

when I was younger, you would

1:02:36

go, there

1:02:38

was a thing where you would go

1:02:41

to a store and you'd buy something and then

1:02:43

you'd wear it and then you take

1:02:45

it back. That is, by the

1:02:47

way, that's the lawful good version of the thing. There's

1:02:49

also the thing where you steal it from the store

1:02:52

and then return it. And then try to return it. To

1:02:54

me, that is, I mean, you are a brave bitch. If

1:02:56

you're engaging in that. No, I

1:02:58

don't mean you. I don't mean you. You and

1:03:01

I are both, look, we're badasses. We're also very

1:03:03

honest and legal. I

1:03:05

cannot tell a lie. That was not something

1:03:08

I was doing, but. I knew somebody who

1:03:10

had one of those ink tag removers. No.

1:03:14

So she got a feel close. Yes,

1:03:16

she bought one from some bootleg

1:03:18

place. And so she would remove the ink tag,

1:03:20

wear the clothes, put it back on and then return

1:03:23

it. Because it had an ink tag, the store would

1:03:25

be like, okay. And like give her money. Fuck,

1:03:29

I know. That is crazy. And obviously,

1:03:32

never. But now people

1:03:35

are cracking down, Erin. Shopaholics

1:03:37

everywhere are in for a rude

1:03:39

awakening because the high of returning

1:03:41

that expensive jacket you just wanted

1:03:44

to try on to get your

1:03:46

money back is about to end.

1:03:49

Online retailers who have built in

1:03:51

free returns into their business are

1:03:53

beginning to rethink their strategy and

1:03:56

implementing lifetime shopping bans to supporters

1:03:58

they decide have returned. returned too

1:04:01

much. Now I was curious about this,

1:04:03

but then there was an example given,

1:04:06

which is one

1:04:08

woman, Nora, an attorney who

1:04:11

found out she was banned from ASOS in 2021

1:04:14

and I think was confused. However, she had made

1:04:16

172 purchases and had returned 99%. That was

1:04:22

going to trigger some shit because you know she

1:04:24

had like an account. She wasn't doing it from

1:04:26

different email addresses. She was an ASOS premium subscriber,

1:04:28

whatever their likes, the extra thing is where you

1:04:30

get free shipping. So they do make it really

1:04:33

easy. Free shipping and free returns is like part

1:04:35

of the program. So you pay like a little

1:04:37

bit, I don't know, it's like 1999. I don't

1:04:39

know. I haven't shopped at ASOS in a long

1:04:41

time. But for the,

1:04:43

over the course of the year. It's like Amazon Prime. Exactly.

1:04:45

You get free shipping and free returns

1:04:48

and it's like super easy. They make

1:04:50

it really easy. So like why even

1:04:52

have the program if you can't use

1:04:54

the program, they should just say, but anyway, also,

1:04:56

so this was in the cut and we'll link it

1:04:58

in show notes. But some of the people who got

1:05:02

lifetime bans, I'm kind

1:05:04

of like, oh, that person shouldn't have been banned.

1:05:06

You know, like arbitrary, because like, what's

1:05:08

the threshold? Do you know what I mean? If you're going

1:05:11

to do a lifetime ban, you have to be like, if

1:05:13

you return more than it should be, I

1:05:16

like a real step system. It should be

1:05:18

like if you return more than 30% of

1:05:21

what you buy, you are no longer able to

1:05:23

participate in the free shipping or something. You need

1:05:25

a warning sign. Do you know what I mean?

1:05:27

You have 30 days where you don't get the

1:05:30

free shipping anymore. Here's a, here's something that's like

1:05:32

kind of disturbing to me. So like,

1:05:34

you know, my body is just going

1:05:36

absolutely bonkers right now because I'm, because I'm pregnant.

1:05:38

I have no idea how it's going to be

1:05:40

shaped when I'm all done. I don't know what,

1:05:42

what, what type of clothes I'm going to wear.

1:05:45

Like after, after I had my first baby,

1:05:47

I wasn't like, I

1:05:50

lost my pregnancy weight, but my shape was weird for like

1:05:52

a year and I didn't know what brands look good on

1:05:54

me and what sizes look good on me. So if I

1:05:56

was going to order clothes, first of all, I don't want

1:05:58

to go to stores. Who

1:06:00

wants to go to a store? First of all,

1:06:02

there aren't really that many stores anymore. And everything

1:06:05

at the stores are low quality and been tried

1:06:07

on a ton. And

1:06:09

that's not really something that I really want to

1:06:11

do because the store shopping experience isn't what it

1:06:13

used to be. And

1:06:16

I don't know what size I wear. So I

1:06:18

would order things in three different sizes, being like,

1:06:20

I think it might be here. Or I would

1:06:22

order something from a new brand and not know

1:06:25

how the brand fit me. And

1:06:28

if I do that now, am I going to

1:06:30

get banned? Maybe I should only do that from

1:06:32

stores where I'm like, I would actually be okay

1:06:35

if I got banned from this store. I mean,

1:06:37

I do think, though, your example is like,

1:06:39

if a store saw that you

1:06:41

ordered three sizes and returned two

1:06:44

or returned all three, they'd be

1:06:46

like, oh, it didn't fit. I feel like there's,

1:06:49

again, they need to make it clear. But

1:06:51

I feel like if you're buying

1:06:54

an expensive jacket and it mysteriously

1:06:56

is returned 21 days later, I

1:06:58

don't know. Maybe that's a flag. I don't

1:07:00

know. Hmm. Yeah,

1:07:02

I've never done that, though. I've never like bought

1:07:04

anything fancy and then worn it

1:07:06

a bunch and returned it. There's a couple there

1:07:09

are a couple people who got lifetime bands who

1:07:11

are like stylists. And I didn't realize

1:07:13

this, but like stylists. Oh, yeah. They

1:07:15

buy things, do photo shoots at them and then return them.

1:07:18

Oh, right. Yeah. Isn't

1:07:21

that in that case? Isn't

1:07:24

that what rent the runway is for? Yeah.

1:07:27

Yeah. I don't know. I

1:07:30

just I feel as though, you know,

1:07:32

talk about in shitification. Yeah. Stores

1:07:35

closed down because it was

1:07:37

expensive to have that much inventory in stock. And

1:07:40

so people were driven to shop online. Online

1:07:42

it kind of like was a cycle that

1:07:44

fed itself. Right. Like there are fewer

1:07:46

stores of fewer people shop and some more people shop online and

1:07:49

some more stores close and some more people shop online. But

1:07:52

now we're getting to a point where like the appeal

1:07:54

of shopping online, which is that you can like try

1:07:56

things on in the privacy of your home, return things

1:07:58

that don't fit. And you know. no

1:08:00

harm, no foul, now we're

1:08:02

gonna be stuck in a future where everything is

1:08:04

like a little worse than it was before. It's

1:08:06

like the dating app. It's like, okay, so now

1:08:08

I- That's really sort of the theme of this

1:08:10

week's episode. Everything's getting worse. certification. No,

1:08:13

but like, the thing is

1:08:15

there's gonna be something new that comes

1:08:17

in, or we have to believe that

1:08:19

there'll be something new that comes in

1:08:21

that is marginally an improvement over the

1:08:23

way things currently are. We

1:08:25

just don't know what that thing is yet. So

1:08:27

if you're out there and you're inventing things- We

1:08:30

invent something better. I

1:08:34

mean, I don't know. If online shopping

1:08:36

goes away, I'm just not gonna wear

1:08:38

clothes anymore. Or I'm just gonna

1:08:40

wear what I have. Just gonna wear what

1:08:43

I have until I'm wearing like rags held

1:08:45

together with safety pins. This seven

1:08:48

year old tissue tee has been doing

1:08:50

all right. All

1:08:53

right, we're gonna take a quick break

1:08:55

when we come back an interview between

1:08:57

Alyssa and- She and

1:09:00

Diane Rayfield. Ooh, what are

1:09:02

you guys gonna talk about? It's a little sassy. We

1:09:04

talk about acting, we talk about comedy, we talk about

1:09:06

sister wives. Ooh, can't wait. So

1:09:08

stick around. Hysteria

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where you want to be. Hey

1:10:56

this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy live

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and uncensored catch me talking with my friends

1:11:00

about my latest obsessions relationship issues and bodily

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ailments. With that kind of drama that seems

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1:11:39

This week's guest is a comedian, author,

1:11:41

actress, my favorite sister on Grace and

1:11:43

Frankie, host of one of my favorite

1:11:45

podcasts The Deep Dive. She's got a

1:11:48

new movie coming out called Scrambled and

1:11:50

will be on tour in February with

1:11:52

her show How Did This

1:11:54

Get Made. It's June Diane Raphael.

1:11:57

Hi. Welcome.

1:12:00

Welcome. What a lovely introduction. Thank

1:12:02

you. Welcome to hysteria.

1:12:05

You're a polymath. I am exhausted

1:12:07

by your intro. You

1:12:09

know, I am... Gosh,

1:12:11

I'm so... Well, thank you.

1:12:13

I'm really sad right now. I'm so

1:12:16

happy to be here. Why? Because

1:12:19

I have... And I hate when people

1:12:21

talk about being sick, but I have

1:12:23

a sore throat. And it started yesterday and here it

1:12:25

is today. Wait. But I was like, you know what?

1:12:28

I really wanted to be here, but I'm

1:12:31

just going to name that... I

1:12:33

have a sore throat, you know? There's nothing...

1:12:35

There's no way around it. But here I

1:12:37

am, and again, mentally quite fine. Well,

1:12:40

here's the thing. So I know an absurd amount

1:12:42

about you because you're one of my favorites. Oh,

1:12:44

God bless you. So can we...

1:12:47

I love an origin story. How...

1:12:50

Can we tell listeners how you got

1:12:52

into comedy? When did you

1:12:54

know you were funny? Oh,

1:12:56

God. Oh,

1:12:59

well, I

1:13:01

don't know that I'm funny, but I...

1:13:04

What's the feeling? Well, no, but here's

1:13:06

what I do know that I had.

1:13:08

I grew up in

1:13:10

an Irish family,

1:13:13

Catholic family. Although that's a

1:13:15

whole other origin story about what I just recently found

1:13:17

out, which is that... That's a

1:13:19

whole 23andMe story, but that

1:13:22

was our identity. And so

1:13:24

there was a lot of... There

1:13:26

was a premium put on storytelling and

1:13:28

being able to make our parents laugh

1:13:30

and being able to make each other

1:13:33

laugh. Now, I didn't know that

1:13:35

that was a career.

1:13:37

I don't know. I just knew that that

1:13:39

was... My

1:13:43

mom and our kitchen table would have

1:13:45

us crying, laughing.

1:13:48

I had stories about what happened at

1:13:51

her school that day and just... And

1:13:53

my dad... This is why...

1:13:55

I grew up in such an egalitarian sort

1:13:57

of world, in Barbie world. where

1:14:01

my mom would make my dad laugh so hard,

1:14:04

he'd be doubled over. And so then

1:14:06

when I got into the real world, and was

1:14:08

like, oh, every improv team is, I'm the only

1:14:10

woman on. It was so

1:14:12

shocking because it was like, I grew

1:14:14

up and thought, oh, girls are funny,

1:14:17

and we make men laugh. And

1:14:21

we're also the top 10 of our class.

1:14:24

And our soccer team in high school

1:14:27

is state champion. It

1:14:29

was actually quite shocking for me to enter

1:14:31

into the world. I

1:14:35

felt very much so like Barbie. But

1:14:38

yeah, so I think my family

1:14:40

definitely put a premium on making each other

1:14:42

laugh. And then I

1:14:45

just always found women to be

1:14:47

very funny. My

1:14:50

girlfriends growing up, you know. I

1:14:52

just like, it was just

1:14:54

baked into the DNA of my life. So

1:14:59

it wasn't a realization much as just like,

1:15:01

oh, that's how you

1:15:03

relate. And, but

1:15:05

then when I got to college and started studying

1:15:07

acting, I knew I wanted to be an actor.

1:15:09

And I met Casey

1:15:12

Wilson, one of my dearest friends in a clown

1:15:14

class, you know, with red noses. And

1:15:17

we, she made me laugh so hard. She's

1:15:22

so funny. She's so goddamn funny.

1:15:25

And so, I then, when we

1:15:27

started like, working

1:15:29

together after NYU, and

1:15:31

honestly, the only reason we did that was because

1:15:35

I was like, how do we get an agent?

1:15:37

And maybe if we do scenes and like

1:15:40

make a showcase, they'll come and see it. But

1:15:43

what we found was, and

1:15:45

Casey was much further along in like the comedy

1:15:47

world, in terms of she was already taking classes

1:15:49

at the Upper Citizens for Gay Shoes, are you

1:15:52

pursuing improv? I was always like,

1:15:54

my goal and dream is to be in

1:15:56

Three Sisters Off-Broadway. That's all I can, that's as

1:15:58

far as I can see. And

1:16:00

so I really credit her

1:16:02

to kind of pushing me and taking

1:16:06

me with her in many ways. And

1:16:08

so she was the

1:16:10

one who really introduced me to UCB and she

1:16:12

was the one who was like, she had her

1:16:15

eye on SNL, sketch comedy, like that whole track.

1:16:18

And I was just like, I

1:16:20

thought it was fun, but it took me

1:16:22

a little while longer to get into it

1:16:24

or realize how actually, how much

1:16:26

agency it gave us over our careers and

1:16:28

what we started writing together, what a powerful

1:16:31

thing it was. But ultimately,

1:16:33

you know,

1:16:35

just found people who found other

1:16:37

people who I thought were really funny and

1:16:40

tried to work with them. So

1:16:42

here's the thing. One of the first

1:16:44

projects, big projects you two did together

1:16:46

was doing the screenplay for Bride

1:16:49

Wars. Right? That's right. Okay.

1:16:51

Which I, because I was excited to interview

1:16:53

you, I rewatched it last night before bed.

1:16:55

Oh, God bless you. Oh, my

1:16:57

God. You were the mean regifter. I was

1:16:59

crying. So here's the thing, though. There are

1:17:02

so few. I watched it and I

1:17:04

was like, Jesus Christ. Like I remember seeing it in

1:17:06

the movie theater. It came out right when I

1:17:08

had gotten to the White House. And we

1:17:10

would do anything to just, we

1:17:13

loved going to the movies because it was just the

1:17:15

two hours of peace that we would get. And

1:17:18

so I watched it and there are

1:17:20

just so few movies like that now.

1:17:22

Like where are the female

1:17:24

buddy rom-coms? Listen. Can

1:17:26

we get them back? Yeah,

1:17:29

we can, actually. It's so hard. I

1:17:31

don't really know how to answer that

1:17:33

because like the film and TV industry

1:17:35

is in such a state right now.

1:17:37

I don't know where it's all gonna

1:17:39

like net out. Yeah, I

1:17:41

really don't. But yes, we

1:17:44

can. Yes, there's an interest

1:17:46

in it. And

1:17:48

I think that they're,

1:17:50

you know, actually, I will just plug Scrambled,

1:17:53

which I have such a small part in the fact that I

1:17:55

mean that. I watched it. I really

1:17:57

liked that movie. And

1:18:00

I feel like they're, I'm so proud

1:18:03

of Leah McKendrick because she's star of

1:18:05

it, writer director. And

1:18:07

she got a theatrical release. And that's so

1:18:09

rare. And that's so hard. And

1:18:11

they're such an appetite. And

1:18:16

you know, it's funny, like women go

1:18:18

to the movies and we

1:18:20

want to see our stories. I

1:18:22

remember when Casey and I were writing Bride Wars and

1:18:24

being told by the studios, not

1:18:27

the studio that we wrote Bride Wars for, but

1:18:29

just at that point when we were writing and

1:18:31

rewriting features, a lot of rewrites on features

1:18:33

that were at different studios and we'll come in

1:18:35

and punch it up or whatever. And

1:18:40

the mindset then, which

1:18:43

shook me to my core and still does,

1:18:46

was that when they're

1:18:48

creating and investing, you know, $50 million,

1:18:51

$30 million, whatever, into a movie, and

1:18:54

they're looking at the audience who's going to go see

1:18:56

it and make their money back, women

1:18:58

will watch movies about women,

1:19:01

but they'll also watch movies about men and

1:19:04

they'll also follow male stories. But the

1:19:06

opposite isn't true. And

1:19:09

that scares

1:19:11

me. And

1:19:14

that was so, I'll never forget it

1:19:16

when I heard that. Like a woman won't, they

1:19:18

won't follow women's stories. Not interested in

1:19:20

the narratives, not interested in

1:19:22

like learning about humanity. And

1:19:26

I think there's still real remnants of

1:19:28

that, which is considered a niche market.

1:19:34

It's not great. And now I think that's changing and

1:19:36

I'm actually an optimist at heart. I do think that's

1:19:38

changing. I think Barbie showed that.

1:19:41

I think for a lot of reasons that's changing.

1:19:43

I think generationally it's absolutely

1:19:45

going to change. I have

1:19:47

two sons who watched Barbie

1:19:49

and are obsessed with it.

1:19:52

Obsessed. That's amazing. Yeah, I

1:19:55

really think that that's going to be

1:19:57

a remnant at some point, but I

1:19:59

just think there yet. Not

1:20:01

there yet. Not there yet. But

1:20:04

comedy shows, let's

1:20:06

talk about this for a second,

1:20:08

so many listeners. TV and you have

1:20:10

occupied some great space over the

1:20:12

past couple years. So many

1:20:14

listeners will know you from playing Brianna

1:20:17

Hansen on Grace and Frankie. So there's

1:20:19

like a through line in a lot

1:20:21

of your characters but I am curious,

1:20:23

what about the character of Brianna made

1:20:25

you scream yes? Well,

1:20:29

oh gosh, so I just had

1:20:31

my first child when I auditioned for

1:20:33

that role. It was one of the

1:20:35

first times I left the house. I

1:20:37

mean, and that's not an exaggeration because I wasn't auditioning

1:20:39

for anything but my agent wrote me and was like,

1:20:41

this is special, will you go in for it? And I

1:20:43

was like, absolutely. And I

1:20:46

think sometimes to tell tell sign when you as

1:20:48

an actor, at least for me, when you can

1:20:51

memorize the lines very quickly, like it's not

1:20:54

a jump, it's not a leap. And

1:20:56

I worked on the scene for not

1:20:58

a long time. And I just was

1:21:00

like, oh, I know her so well.

1:21:02

And that was

1:21:05

it. It was that was it.

1:21:07

Wow. So I went in,

1:21:09

I did the scene, I came out and then

1:21:12

I got the call very soon after and

1:21:14

it was like it was like that where

1:21:16

it just was it was

1:21:18

easy. And you

1:21:21

know, the thing that I love about Brianna and a lot

1:21:23

of people I think when they meet me are like,

1:21:25

oh my god, you're nothing like her. And I'm and

1:21:28

I'm not but I have access to

1:21:30

her, you know, and not

1:21:33

to get too actory. But but

1:21:35

there's that thing of like, oh, one

1:21:38

of the coolest things about being

1:21:40

an actor is that you get

1:21:42

real compassion for people. And you're

1:21:44

like, oh, everybody's capable of everything

1:21:46

the best and the worst. Right.

1:21:49

So you know, you really

1:21:51

get a lot. Well, a lot of your characters

1:21:53

are a little bit that way. It's like, I

1:21:55

want to say they're like morally ambiguous, but it's

1:21:58

not they're more like very honest. Yes,

1:22:00

and what I so appreciate

1:22:02

about Brown is I was stepping into

1:22:04

such a wild time in my own

1:22:07

life and also working with

1:22:09

such icons and people I respected so

1:22:11

much that I was able

1:22:14

to wear like her confidence even

1:22:16

if I didn't have it myself.

1:22:18

And so it was such

1:22:20

a gift to, you know, and I... God,

1:22:25

I just I love women who are

1:22:27

wrong in the head. I

1:22:33

love... I really

1:22:35

do. I love like demented

1:22:38

women and I love women who

1:22:40

are bold

1:22:42

and step out. I think that we

1:22:46

still have such rigid ideas

1:22:48

about how women should behave,

1:22:51

you know, and how they should sort of calibrate

1:22:53

in the world. And

1:22:56

so it is when I get to

1:22:58

play someone who's... And

1:23:00

I've been really lucky because those are the roles I'm

1:23:02

drawn to. I mean, for a while in my career,

1:23:04

I was getting offered like the role of the

1:23:08

wife on sitcoms who's like, oh my

1:23:10

God, I used to call

1:23:12

her like Casey Neist to call that role the

1:23:14

comedy killer. Who would come

1:23:17

in and be like, guys, don't

1:23:19

be so crazy. Like my husband,

1:23:21

like, don't act like that. Like

1:23:23

you're being really nuts. And it

1:23:25

was just, I wanted

1:23:27

to be nuts. You know, I wanted the jokes.

1:23:29

I wanted to be wrong. And

1:23:32

I wanted the jokes. I wanted to

1:23:34

do the comedy. So

1:23:37

that was really important to

1:23:39

me. And I'm so glad I

1:23:41

sidestepped that because I think it's a real

1:23:43

trap. Yeah,

1:23:46

so I do gravitate for

1:23:48

sure to women

1:23:50

who are stepping outside of

1:23:53

those parameters, the

1:23:57

social kind of cultural parameters that...

1:24:00

we are placed in and then sometimes

1:24:02

we uphold and all of it.

1:24:04

I find it to be really

1:24:06

fun and I learn

1:24:09

a lot from it about myself and yeah

1:24:12

I'm just I'm drawn to those

1:24:14

ladies. Speaking of

1:24:16

ladies, you have worked

1:24:18

with Jane Fonda, Lily Tomlin,

1:24:21

you worked alongside Julie Louis-Dreyfus in

1:24:23

Veepe, my favorite horny painter. Julie

1:24:27

Louis has a podcast that I love called

1:24:29

Wiser Than Me. It's

1:24:32

so good and I have learned so much

1:24:34

from it and I found it to be

1:24:36

very powerful and I am curious if from

1:24:40

them, what have you learned?

1:24:42

What have you taken away

1:24:44

from your experiences with them?

1:24:49

Well first of all I think the

1:24:51

most powerful thing for me to walk

1:24:53

away with is the idea that women,

1:25:01

we can reframe what it means to get

1:25:03

older. We

1:25:06

can create a story that's

1:25:09

I mean I think the culture would like love

1:25:11

us to believe that we just

1:25:14

will continue to lose from here on out. Lose

1:25:17

income, lose power, lose

1:25:19

our sexuality, lose you know our

1:25:22

currency in the world. And

1:25:26

what I've really learned and what I

1:25:29

think is so it's what to

1:25:31

me was so incredible about Grace and Frankie

1:25:33

which is it proposes that we might actually

1:25:35

have more. We might have more to say, we might have more

1:25:39

to do. We might have more

1:25:41

investment in the world and wanting to

1:25:43

leave it better than we found it.

1:25:46

We might you know

1:25:48

create structures that are

1:25:51

different, family structures that are

1:25:53

different. I mean Golden Girls was my

1:25:55

favorite show growing up so this is actually not

1:25:57

such a... here,

1:26:00

from Golden Girls to Grace and Frankie. But

1:26:02

I really

1:26:04

do think that that

1:26:07

has been really important to me

1:26:09

and I'm excited

1:26:12

about it. I'm excited to risk

1:26:14

more as they do, as Jane

1:26:16

and Lily and Julia do, to

1:26:19

be more vulnerable, to be

1:26:22

more committed. Jane is something

1:26:25

else and

1:26:30

what I admire the most about her, I actually saw

1:26:32

this in my own mom too during her life, which

1:26:34

was the

1:26:36

commitment to learning

1:26:42

and spending

1:26:46

herself, spending

1:26:49

her privilege, which my god she does,

1:26:51

but the commitment to learning and to

1:26:54

offering. And it's not a stopping, it's

1:27:01

not a

1:27:03

retirement, it's a

1:27:07

double downing of herself.

1:27:10

And that's

1:27:14

been a really, she's been such a strong role

1:27:16

model for me for that reason. And

1:27:18

also she doesn't suffer fools. And it's

1:27:20

really, it's been important for me to

1:27:23

be around her to see how she

1:27:25

navigates the world because

1:27:27

she's been the

1:27:30

object of sexual desire and

1:27:32

so much hate still

1:27:34

is. And how

1:27:37

she kind of finds her center and all

1:27:40

that is really beautiful to me. And

1:27:44

I'm just so, I feel

1:27:46

so incredibly grateful to have these

1:27:50

incredible, and also as artists.

1:27:54

I do

1:27:57

find that as I get older, and certainly this is

1:27:59

true of them, But we

1:28:01

have more to say. We

1:28:04

have more to kind of share. And

1:28:06

we have access to more. And

1:28:10

I find sort of the kind

1:28:13

of the female artist to

1:28:15

be a really interesting, I don't

1:28:18

know, to be an interesting character. And

1:28:21

they've reframed it for me. Sometimes

1:28:23

I think that actresses get such a bad

1:28:26

rap for being selfish and

1:28:28

vain and all this stuff. And listen,

1:28:30

there's something that's not a part of

1:28:32

it. But when I've worked with Lily

1:28:35

and Jane, all

1:28:37

they're interested in

1:28:40

is telling the truth and sharing and

1:28:42

risking. And

1:28:45

it's very, very powerful to

1:28:48

say. And

1:28:51

that's, in my own work, I feel like

1:28:54

I've had glimpses of what that feels like. But I

1:28:57

am not there. And I want

1:28:59

to. But I'm so happy to

1:29:01

have them because they get me

1:29:03

closer to it. And I've seen

1:29:05

a standard of performance that

1:29:07

I will never forget

1:29:10

and is now like, it's

1:29:12

my standard, even though I don't always make it there.

1:29:16

It's very cool. That's very

1:29:18

cool. I mean. No, I'm

1:29:20

serious. That is like, I mean, to

1:29:22

just be around. I think that

1:29:24

there is something incredibly special about

1:29:26

being around people who are special. And you

1:29:29

know it at the time. And you're able

1:29:31

to not let the moment pass you by.

1:29:33

You can kind of just like soak

1:29:36

it all in. Yeah. Now

1:29:39

we're going to go like super lowbrow now, though. Are you

1:29:41

ready? I've been ready. And by the

1:29:43

way, I'm not about to call your podcast

1:29:45

lowbrow. No, it is. No.

1:29:49

So the deep dive with Jessica St.

1:29:51

Claire, another Veep alum, the peccarino queen.

1:29:54

You should know that when I cannot sleep, which

1:29:56

is always because I'm perimenopausal, all I do is

1:29:58

watch Veep. So I know. way too much. But

1:30:02

do I remember, your podcast runs

1:30:04

the gamut, do I remember

1:30:06

you guys talking about sister wives? Of course.

1:30:09

Okay, great. So here's my question.

1:30:11

I'm obsessed. I've watched every episode.

1:30:14

Who's your fav? My

1:30:16

favorite wife, Janelle. Yeah, Janelle, right? We

1:30:18

would be friends with Janelle. A thousand

1:30:20

for I feel I am, but a

1:30:22

thousand. I do too. Janelle is everything.

1:30:25

She's everything. She's everything to me.

1:30:28

Do you know we call, we call Robin

1:30:31

Sobyn because she's always so Robin, Robin, Robin,

1:30:33

Robin, Robin. And it's so hard because I

1:30:35

actually did spend some time defending Robin and

1:30:37

now I'm like, no, in this

1:30:39

last season, especially like sister wives talk back,

1:30:42

there is no way you can defend her.

1:30:44

There's just no way. And Janelle

1:30:48

though, is a very

1:30:50

special person. Janelle

1:30:52

is a feminist

1:30:55

hero to me. Icons,

1:30:57

feminist icons, truly. And

1:31:00

Janelle, like what I love

1:31:02

about her and for those who don't

1:31:04

know, you know, Janelle was married to

1:31:07

a man named Cody is the second

1:31:09

wife. Who's the worst. And

1:31:11

there were two other

1:31:13

wives after she entered the picture, but

1:31:16

Janelle had a gaggle of children. And what

1:31:18

I love about her is how honest she

1:31:20

is about really, I mean, I guess there

1:31:23

was a religious component, but she has hacked

1:31:25

the system. Most women are

1:31:27

like how, you know, the

1:31:29

infrastructure of, of working and

1:31:31

pursuing your career and having children just

1:31:33

doesn't work with no federal, you

1:31:35

know, the government's not going to subsidize it. And it

1:31:38

is true. It doesn't work, but Janelle figured

1:31:41

it out. She got it all done. She

1:31:43

got it all done. She had another wife, third

1:31:46

wife, Christine, of course, took care

1:31:48

of the children during the day. And then they

1:31:50

were true partners. True. I've

1:31:52

never seen a structure, the re-envisioning

1:31:54

and that's like, courage people to

1:31:56

watch it. Cause it sounds so

1:31:58

oppressive. The circumstances, But what

1:32:02

I so love about it is

1:32:04

it's actually like a radical Reenvisioning

1:32:07

of how we might do things

1:32:09

in a communal setting. That's what

1:32:11

I think it is the blueprint

1:32:13

for the female continent Right.

1:32:16

Like we all have to fuck Cody Brown. No,

1:32:19

please. No, I know Trade-off

1:32:22

so there are some adjustments I would make

1:32:25

but there are It's

1:32:27

a system that god damn it. It

1:32:29

worked for Janelle She

1:32:31

is just watching her now and she's

1:32:34

got like her new hair. You know

1:32:36

what I mean? I find she's driving

1:32:38

She's beautiful Old-timey like me

1:32:40

and her kids love her. She she is she's

1:32:43

a dame that is she's Dame Janelle Thank

1:32:48

you. I had I have to tell you there

1:32:50

was no way I couldn't ask you about this

1:32:52

because she is my I Will

1:32:55

rewatch like her best episodes because I just

1:32:57

think that she I like root for her

1:32:59

I'm like girl. You've got to leave him.

1:33:01

No, you can't go back to him No,

1:33:04

there's nothing he can do when he took

1:33:06

her out in the fancy sports car to

1:33:08

the restaurant where he's like I

1:33:11

got us a reservation. What's the

1:33:13

one place you'd want to go and it's like

1:33:15

Cody sure fucking wife What are you what sort

1:33:17

of accolades are you asking for here? And

1:33:20

she was just like, okay, I didn't want to hold

1:33:22

his hand though Oh

1:33:24

my god, well someone said to me and I don't know

1:33:27

if this is season 17 right now or 16 I

1:33:29

can't remember. It's 18. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, you're

1:33:31

welcome. Someone said to me about season

1:33:34

17 because this is for those who don't

1:33:36

know when everything fucking fell apart, but someone said

1:33:38

like we we season

1:33:41

1 through 16 walked so season And

1:33:48

And it's like so true like we've

1:33:50

literally invested in watching paint dry on

1:33:53

a wall watching this show and

1:33:55

now We're getting the payoff

1:33:58

Thrilling Thrilling it's thrilling

1:34:01

like so thrilling. I've got my

1:34:03

sister into it and she

1:34:05

watches it and we will FaceTime to break it

1:34:07

down after we see it It

1:34:10

is so good. I mean she

1:34:12

will text me. Tell me when you've watched I

1:34:14

have so much to say Well

1:34:16

also like this season when Janelle I'm

1:34:19

sure you remember the scene when Janelle was in

1:34:21

that tiny apartment boy Do I want her to

1:34:23

settle down in a house? But when Jenelle? Oh,

1:34:25

she needs a proper environment And

1:34:28

Cody and her got into a fight and she

1:34:30

said you get the fuck back here And

1:34:33

he's like I have nothing to say to you. I

1:34:35

mean he is It

1:34:38

was the greatest television escalation I've

1:34:40

ever seen and you know

1:34:42

right again for people haven't seen it

1:34:45

We've never heard these people curse

1:34:47

in six ever 16

1:34:51

everything has been going to the

1:34:53

grocery store Stocking up

1:34:56

the like fallout shelter food pantry

1:34:59

That's it. They are doomsday preppers. Yeah, that's

1:35:02

it To

1:35:05

uncover what's been underneath it

1:35:07

before we go, you know

1:35:09

on this podcast We love to

1:35:12

talk politics and you co-wrote the

1:35:14

very positively reviewed book on Amazon

1:35:16

blurbed by Hillary Clinton Called

1:35:18

represent the women's guide to running for office

1:35:21

and changing the world with Kate Black who

1:35:23

is formerly Emily's list So

1:35:25

right now, I mean look the world's a bit of

1:35:27

a dumpster fire But who are the women

1:35:29

in office that you look at and you're like, yes

1:35:31

more, please Well, you know, there's so many people like

1:35:33

I feel like the federal government gets so much

1:35:35

airtime And so like there are people of

1:35:38

course I could talk about but I and

1:35:40

this is a big part

1:35:42

of the book Which is like all of

1:35:44

the other seats that

1:35:46

are available and that one might, you

1:35:48

know consider and I will say that there are some

1:35:52

Council members city council members in

1:35:54

Los Angeles and I'm really excited

1:35:58

Nithin Raman Mises

1:36:00

Hernandez, that are real

1:36:02

progressive voices that I'm, and

1:36:06

I love, and Nithya's up for

1:36:08

reelection right now, I would have loved to

1:36:10

have not only they ran their campaigns, but

1:36:12

what they've been up to and how steady

1:36:14

they've been. And

1:36:17

they're changing what the city council looks

1:36:20

like in Los Angeles. And again, you

1:36:22

know, we have a city

1:36:25

strong council, weak mayor system, and

1:36:27

the power that is here in

1:36:29

Los Angeles, and the power that these seats

1:36:31

hold is so huge. And

1:36:33

then of course, it's like, well, Los Angeles

1:36:36

is a model city for the rest of

1:36:38

the country. And so what happens here is

1:36:40

going to impact other places. So to me,

1:36:42

those are some of the women I've been

1:36:44

most excited about, and because I see how

1:36:48

they've been doing it, and I

1:36:50

see how committed they are to

1:36:52

their progressive ideals and holding onto

1:36:54

them and working still

1:36:56

within a really difficult system.

1:37:00

And I'm just feeling really proud to have

1:37:02

supported them and continue to do so. June,

1:37:04

thank you. Thank you.

1:37:06

Thank you for coming on

1:37:08

Hysteria, listeners. You can find

1:37:10

June's podcast, The Deep Dive, wherever you get

1:37:13

your pods and tickets for her show, How

1:37:15

Did This Get Made, are on sale now.

1:37:24

All right, and that is just about all the time

1:37:26

we have. But before we go, we have some announcements

1:37:28

for the class. It's all hands on

1:37:30

deck this election year. We're even putting kids to

1:37:32

work, not in the terrifying way that some Republicans

1:37:34

who miss Victorian England want to put kids to

1:37:37

work. We're like in my home state,

1:37:39

Wisconsin, where 14 year olds can

1:37:41

now see. But

1:37:43

in a fun way with merch, pick up

1:37:46

brand new, I can't vote, but you can

1:37:48

onesies and toddler tees for all the kids

1:37:50

in your life. There's

1:37:52

no better reminder of what's at stake than a

1:37:54

baby who might not be able to vote when

1:37:56

they turn 18 because our country elected a lunatic

1:37:58

obsessed with ketchup and fascism. Shop all

1:38:01

the crooked kids merch including read me

1:38:03

a band book onesies and bros for

1:38:05

row onesies right now at the crooked

1:38:07

store Head to crooked comm slash store

1:38:09

to shop. We also have

1:38:11

a listener shout out. You all know

1:38:13

we love you so much We think

1:38:15

you are the best listeners of any

1:38:17

podcast ever. You're smarter. You're nicer. You're

1:38:20

cooler You let us know when something's on your

1:38:22

mind. You're just the best and

1:38:24

so we wanted to shout out one of

1:38:26

our listeners We got an email that says

1:38:28

longtime listener writing to thank you for having

1:38:30

representative Anna Eskimani on the pod She was

1:38:32

on a few weeks ago. She's a representative

1:38:34

from Florida. She's a glimmer of

1:38:36

hope from our otherwise typically bleak legislature We need

1:38:39

all the help we can get in Florida So

1:38:41

thank you for drawing attention to the ballot initiative

1:38:43

That would be such an important step in the

1:38:45

right direction after years of Republican overreach and malevolence

1:38:48

side note check out st Pete it rules

1:38:50

were beautiful artsy blue city that DeSantis

1:38:52

can't stand all because we hated him

1:38:54

first Thanks for all you do

1:38:56

love and appreciate you both. I've never been to st. Pete

1:38:59

and I ain't neither but I check noted

1:39:01

noted Alright,

1:39:03

that's all the time we have. Thank you to

1:39:05

June Diane Ray feel and Congresswoman Judy Chu and

1:39:07

Alyssa Thank you for being my ride or die

1:39:10

ever Listeners if you

1:39:12

want to get in touch hysteria at crooked comm

1:39:14

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1:39:16

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1:39:35

production Caroline Reston is our

1:39:38

senior producer our executive producer is me

1:39:40

Aaron Ryan and Alyssa master Monaco is

1:39:42

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1:39:45

is our associate producer the

1:39:47

show is engineered and edited by Jordan Cantor

1:39:49

We get audio support from Kyle Seglen

1:39:52

and Charlotte Landis our video producers

1:39:54

are Rachel Gajewski and Megan pastel

1:39:56

And thank you to Julia Beach

1:39:58

a what ookolate a DA Hill

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