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Welcome back to IdeaDrop

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. The show , the only show

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. Ideadrop is the only

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show . I can't do my , I can't

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see the only show .

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every other show , it just doesn't exist

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guys .

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IdeaDrop is the show that

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surfaces new business ideas and

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how to pull them off . Welcome

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to IdeaDrop , the pickleball

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episode . We have

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a surprise guest today that I'm

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excited about . But more

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than that , I want to make money in this industry

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. So hopefully we'll get into that space

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because I will get a lot more play time

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. I will get out of the house a lot more

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. I will be a healthier human if

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I can figure out how to make money in this industry

0:45

. So that's my selfish reason

0:47

why I'm here . Dustin , why are you here ?

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I'm so glad you asked I'm here because we started

0:52

this podcast about two years ago and

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here's the exciting thing about today . The very

0:57

last episode , right before we did this , I

1:00

made fun of pickleball really harshly . I

1:02

said pickleball is the sport for people who can't get girlfriends

1:05

and are complete nerds . And I didn't do that . I've

1:07

never I've got to say to our guest

1:09

I have never played pickleball once

1:11

in my life . And this is really exciting

1:14

for me because I hope that

1:16

I'm going to learn something and I

1:18

hope you can prove me wrong and that it's for cool people

1:20

and I can finally learn how to be cool like you .

1:22

That's why I'm here . You can pull up that

1:24

clip of Dustin saying that . That

1:27

would be awesome . Sorry

1:29

. So , Tito , you

1:32

, I'd like to introduce you to the audience

1:34

and we'll just dive right in . For

1:38

the non pickleball players in our audience

1:40

, it was very

1:43

hard to say he's the

1:45

CEO of a professional

1:47

predictive analytics rating

1:50

system that works universe

1:52

wide . But

1:54

anyways , CEO of dooper Tito

1:56

, is it Machado ?

1:58

Tito Machado , correct , correct .

2:01

Tito Machado . Thank you for joining us

2:03

. Tito , where are ?

2:03

you from . I am from the Canary

2:05

Islands , I am from Spain , grew up

2:08

in paradise and

2:10

when I was 18 , I moved to the US . So

2:13

it's been . You know , life happened here .

2:15

It's all downhill from there . Who's your soccer team ? Who's

2:18

your football team ?

2:19

I'm a massive Barcelona fan . Really

2:22

yeah we're not going through the best of times , but

2:25

, yeah , massive , a little bit of a fanatic too . I'm

2:27

, you know , not objective at all when it comes to

2:29

Barcelona .

2:30

Bro dude , this one time

2:32

in my 20s I got stranded in

2:34

Barcelona and I had no money in my bank

2:36

account and I stayed right next to the

2:38

Barcelona stadium Like literally I could

2:40

throw frisbee and hit it in this hostel

2:42

for like 10 bucks a night and it

2:44

was the coolest experience of my life , but

2:46

I couldn't afford to go into games , so it was awful at the

2:48

same time .

2:49

Yeah , I know I mean , but the stadium is great

2:51

. I think it was one of the biggest stadiums for forever

2:54

and it's a classic . We're actually remodeling

2:56

the stadium . Well , I say we like I'm

2:58

like on the board or something . But

3:00

Barcelona is remodeling the stadium and

3:03

, yeah , it's a temple . It's a temple . You know , wherever Messi

3:05

plays is a temple of sports , so yeah

3:08

, that's so

3:10

cool .

3:10

My son is now a Messi fan . He's

3:12

11 and he

3:14

goes to a dual immersion class . He's

3:17

growing up speaking Spanish , primarily in

3:19

school , and

3:21

he has become addicted to soccer

3:23

football . We're going to play a lot

3:25

. We got to do some drills .

3:27

Great .

3:28

Sam , if you're hearing this , I hope it's

3:30

after you got really good because I

3:32

spent so much time with you . I love you , buddy

3:35

.

3:35

Okay , I want to launch into a couple of questions here . Tito

3:37

, so you built this massive platform around

3:40

this sport that I make fun of , because it has this I

3:43

would describe it a cult following Like . People are

3:45

passionate about it . They are so passionate

3:47

about it . And can you give us , like

3:49

, the quick , quick version of like . How

3:52

did you guys get from inception idea to

3:54

now ? You're like the

3:56

big like . Are you the heavyweight

3:58

in the industry ? Is there ? Do you have big competition ?

4:01

Yeah , we have a couple of heavyweights on different frontiers

4:03

. We are the only one in the rating space , or

4:06

the big one in the rating space . But

4:09

yeah , you know it's been . You

4:12

know it's funny the way , the way . Cult , right

4:14

. I don't think I think we've passed from being a cult

4:16

to being a just a phenomenon , right

4:19

? I think ? You know people

4:21

always describe it as a niche , right ? The small

4:23

thing happening I mean when you have , when you

4:25

are the most played sport in America

4:27

, I think so has been a cult and it's a

4:29

. You know we are , we're up there , we have celebrities

4:31

playing . You know we have sports

4:34

owners . We have , you know , some of the people

4:36

are meeting and spending time with . I

4:39

actually played think about , with Agassi this weekend

4:41

. You know one of my idols growing

4:43

up , so

4:45

, so , so , so to be clear , that's Andre Agassi

4:48

he played this weekend with yeah

4:50

, and to be clear , that's the biggest star

4:52

, right Is he ?

4:53

is he the best of the ?

4:54

he's the Jordan of tennis .

4:57

Yeah , he was , he was , you know

4:59

, he was the

5:01

, the big , big name and also he changed

5:04

the game . He made it . He made it

5:06

in , you know , he brought fashion in . He was wearing George

5:08

and you know , and jeans in the court and

5:10

Amulet and and he was just

5:12

the cool kid of the of the nineties and

5:15

he brought this like new , new

5:18

persona to tennis , when tennis has been historically

5:20

this like all white

5:22

dress up classy sport . And

5:24

he was rock and roll . You know which was

5:26

fantastic . That's cool , yeah .

5:28

How'd you do when you played with him ? Did you do okay ? Did you score

5:30

at all or did you ? Did you kick his ass ?

5:32

I know I did score a couple of points , but

5:34

I have to say that I would you

5:36

know I would never . I would you know I

5:38

cannot be that Agassi , even if I wanted to . I

5:40

was . You know I don't get too fanboyish

5:43

, but I was shaky hands , sweaty

5:45

, and you know it wasn't . It wasn't

5:47

my best performance as a human being , but

5:50

hey , it was great .

5:53

This will be a good segue into the

5:55

rating system , but what ? What's

5:57

your rating in Dupre ?

6:00

So right now I'm a , I'm a four

6:02

nine , I'm usually a five O and

6:04

I'm totally gonna blame this on one of my best

6:06

buddies , nico Castro , and

6:09

I got pushed down totally because of him

6:12

. But

6:14

yeah , I'm around 4'9" , 5'0" . I

6:16

wish I got a little more time to play , but

6:19

you know , Cooper has been busy last couple

6:21

years .

6:22

Before we go , even there , can you just give me the quick

6:25

and dirty version ? I'm a guy who doesn't play pickleball

6:27

. You guys are a rating system . Do you just rank people

6:29

on how good they are ? How does it work ? Is it by point ? Is

6:31

it by match ? Is it who ? How

6:34

do you quantify this ? Help

6:36

me out here .

6:37

Yeah , yeah , listen , we are . You know

6:39

, we are the most accurate rating in the world

6:41

. We look at points , we look at games , we look at

6:43

how you're playing with . So we have a

6:45

you know , we've been looking at this from

6:48

the early stages and how to be able to measure

6:50

at doubles , at doubles type

6:52

of sport , which is different , right , because

6:54

your level is also dependable

6:57

on who you're playing with and who you're playing

6:59

against , and we're going to keep adding more

7:01

variants . We are key to understand the

7:03

sport . So even what side are you playing

7:05

? You know those kinds of things that are

7:07

going to be very cool in the future . But

7:10

you know what we do is , you know we , as I said

7:12

, you know we look at the games that you're playing

7:14

, we look at your performance , we look at how many

7:16

points you get if you win or lost , and

7:18

then you know we give you

7:20

a number between two and eight . That

7:22

is the representation of who you are in the

7:25

pickable world . So one

7:28

of the big things that is happening in this , or what's

7:30

happening in the sport , is that there was no clear

7:32

way of measuring people in a scale

7:34

or put them on the right group , so this will create

7:36

so much drama when you have a

7:38

massive group of people coming

7:41

into anything and you don't know how to classify

7:43

them and give them level based matches . That's

7:46

like the worst nightmare to an admin of a

7:48

club or a coach or anyone who is

7:50

in the space to be able to offer

7:53

fun and engaging or playing opportunities

7:55

, if that makes sense .

7:58

That makes perfect sense . I have a lot of questions

8:00

about how the algorithm , how

8:02

your algorithm , works . But before we get

8:04

there , can you roll back

8:07

in time ? When did you guys start ? And

8:09

then , how did you go from hey , we're starting

8:11

to now you are big , right , you would consider

8:13

yourself how many employees do you have ?

8:15

We have 43 employees right now .

8:18

Okay , you're big enough .

8:19

And they just closed around for

8:22

eight million . And is it your series

8:24

A ?

8:25

You'd maybe consider it , or something like that yeah

8:27

, not even yeah , I think it's more . Yeah

8:29

, you know we were . I'll tell the story a little bit and

8:32

I think this is gonna give us a

8:34

little more information of how it started and how

8:36

this happened . So Dupre was founded

8:39

by Steve Kuhn , who was

8:41

also the founder of Major League Pickable

8:43

. So back in

8:45

2020 , 2021

8:47

, this idea of creating a Major

8:50

League of Pickable , a team format

8:52

to be able to have the pros play

8:54

for money and really

8:57

create a product that was gonna

8:59

have a potential

9:01

to be on ESPN in

9:03

the future and create engaging

9:05

, create teams , create kind of this local feeling

9:08

that team sports have , instead of making

9:10

it a individual sport like tennis

9:12

. He

9:14

created this product with MOP and , on

9:16

the side , also created Dupre , which

9:19

was the rating system that needed to

9:21

exist to be able to create a pathway into

9:23

the pros so we could measure level

9:26

across different places . So

9:28

now we can start recruiting , knowing who is the next

9:30

, so teams can draft right , they really

9:32

. The MOP model is very similar to

9:34

the MBA , but now you're looking at 2014's

9:37

who do I draft ? Who is the next big star

9:39

? Who has charisma ? Who , all of

9:41

those things ? So they went hand in hand . My

9:44

journey started

9:46

. I have the most niche

9:48

background in the world . I've been working on sports rating

9:51

almost all my career , so I

9:53

come from the tennis space , and I used

9:55

to work for a company named UTR Universal

9:57

Tennis Rating .

9:58

You worked for UTR . Yes Wow

10:00

what'd you do at UTR ?

10:02

So I was in sales . We used to get there

10:04

yeah , I was in sales and then I was a

10:06

product manager in

10:09

the program manager in the adult league space

10:11

and making sure that every club in

10:13

the world was using their platform .

10:15

So sales is to the clubs , but

10:18

also to partners that would do revenue

10:20

splits or something . It's kind of like a . It's

10:22

a platform right , it's a brand . Yeah

10:25

, yeah , we were . It draws eyeballs .

10:26

Yeah , we had an event management platform that we

10:28

sold to clubs and

10:31

, yeah , I was working there . And

10:35

then tennis was an industry that I've always

10:37

lived in , loved

10:39

and then , through time I think I wanted to change

10:41

the tennis industry that had been all my life and

10:46

decided to move away from it . And

10:49

one time I was looking

10:52

for gigs , looking for what to do next , my

10:55

former boss contacted me about Pickable

10:57

that

11:00

I should check it out and check

11:02

a little bit with the phenomenon . I

11:05

flew down to a tournament and I

11:08

got to a Mad Max type

11:10

location in the middle of

11:12

Phoenix or Arizona , like

11:14

40 something courts , like

11:17

3000 people drinking

11:19

white clothes and having a party

11:21

and playing games , and for me it

11:23

was an instant like wow , this

11:26

is gonna explode . Like

11:28

it was the second I get to the venue , I

11:31

realized that this wasn't this , wasn't

11:33

this niche thing . I was thinking this

11:36

is the snowball in halfway

11:38

through the snowball process down

11:40

the hill and it just captured

11:42

me and I was like , okay

11:44

, I need to get into this industry .

11:48

Dustin , I need to explain to you what

11:51

got its hooks in me about Pickleball . So

11:53

I've played table tennis for I

11:56

mean , my whole life . I grew up playing with my dad

11:58

and then , when I was a salesman

12:01

in my early career , if

12:03

you were ahead on your quota you

12:05

could go into the back and play

12:07

ping pong right

12:09

Against other people who are ahead on quota . I

12:12

was ahead

12:14

always , so I pretty

12:16

much got to play table tennis in

12:18

our bracket system at that company

12:21

. We had like a competitive bracket

12:23

for five years . I

12:25

got to play every single workday

12:27

and so the number of hours

12:30

I've put in to table tennis

12:32

is extremely high . And

12:34

I got to the point where I was buying professional paddles

12:36

and I was trying to find people to play with in the

12:38

community and there is nothing , so

12:41

like it would be extremely

12:43

difficult for me to go find somebody that

12:45

would be at my level in

12:48

ping pong . All I could find

12:50

were semi pros who happened

12:52

to live in this city and they would crush me , or

12:55

people that are no fun to play with because they're

12:57

so much worse . I couldn't find

12:59

this , you know , intermediate advanced

13:01

competition at all , so I couldn't

13:03

grow . So I stopped playing table tennis . When

13:06

Pickleball came on the scene , I

13:09

tried it one time , thinking like I think

13:11

these skills are transferable . And

13:14

I showed up and I got my ass

13:16

absolutely kicked by a 75

13:18

year old couple and I could not

13:21

believe . Like it's

13:23

still , it's just a waffle ball and

13:25

a paddle . It's the same

13:27

in many ways , but the amount of

13:29

strategy positioning like

13:32

forethought intention that they had

13:34

and the lack of spin

13:36

and control that I had , like

13:38

it's not the same as ping

13:40

pong in the spin game

13:43

. So I thought I was going

13:45

to be fine and I kept

13:47

getting my ass kicked that week by

13:49

people older than my parents , 75

13:51

year olds , that's great , yeah . So

13:54

I mean I kept coming back because

13:56

I couldn't the competitive side

13:58

of me couldn't be that bad at Pickleball and

14:01

so I quickly got better and better and better . I

14:03

found better people to play and

14:05

the way I stumbled across Dupre I'm about

14:07

six months in Tito , so I'm not very deep

14:10

in I'm

14:12

playing with people who are about 4.5

14:14

level . I

14:17

started watching the PPA . I

14:20

understand the game probably

14:24

well enough now and my

14:26

goal is to play some tournaments this summer when

14:28

the weather is better . It's just been raining

14:30

like crazy . So I'd like to

14:32

be competitive at the 4.5 and then

14:34

climb to five by

14:37

the end of summer would be my goal , because

14:42

I have five kids , I work a desk job

14:44

, we do content , I've

14:46

got these different business interests . Everything

14:49

of my life is scattered

14:52

. I need something that's my own

14:54

, that is just my

14:57

time to be healthy , to

14:59

get outdoors . So Pickleball

15:03

is something that I can invest in for 40

15:05

years 50 years if I'm lucky

15:07

. Well , yeah , 50 years if I'm lucky

15:09

. The oldest person I've played with was

15:11

94 . Wow , and

15:14

he had a forehand

15:16

topspin shot deep

15:18

to my backhand like I couldn't believe

15:20

and before I

15:22

could dink , he kept

15:24

just punishing me . I was trying to be nice . I

15:26

didn't wanna pass him by with a

15:28

shot and make him move because I was afraid he

15:30

would fall and break his knee . But

15:33

anytime I would hit it to his

15:35

forehand , I would lose the point , and

15:38

it's what got me addicted . So there's

15:40

this social element to Pickleball

15:42

that I do not think will go back

15:44

in Pandora's box . It's been unleashed

15:47

, it's not going back .

15:51

Okay , I'm gonna

15:53

get on my small little soapbox here's

15:55

the problem with Pickleball and then you're gonna

15:57

help me solve this problem . I actually think it's not

15:59

a problem anymore . I originally thought I was

16:01

a fad and I've resigned

16:03

myself to the fact that it's long and here to stay . The

16:06

interesting thing about a Pickleball it's like you

16:08

know how you can tell if somebody's a vegan . They'll

16:11

tell you right . So you know how you can tell somebody's in

16:13

the Pickleball .

16:14

Oh , they'll tell you , man .

16:15

They're gonna freaking tell you . They're just gonna . It's

16:17

gonna be like on your radar . About

16:19

six months ago , I had an idea to pitch an app . It's

16:21

just a radar that can tell you if you're next to somebody who's

16:23

playing Pickleball which

16:25

is really , really terrible and it's ironic .

16:28

It's not an open door . It's just a feature in the

16:30

Dupre app that's gonna be released next fall .

16:32

I know , I know it's totally good . I

16:34

think I should probably give it a shot . I think I should

16:36

probably play it , because I do love Table Tennis . Really

16:38

I love it so much , man , yeah , oh my

16:40

gosh .

16:41

Then get past your ego and come play

16:43

for sure .

16:44

I'm so bad at sports , so I think

16:46

sports that's a great thing about about pickleball

16:49

.

16:49

Yeah , yeah , listen , I think . I think one of

16:51

the things that people are looking

16:54

at pickleball and almost making the wrong conception

16:56

is that for your perception of the

16:58

sport , is that they think that they

17:01

picture this like you

17:04

know , this picture , this many tennis thing

17:06

that all people are playing and it's

17:08

not hip and it's

17:10

community and you know , what happens in life

17:13

is that , hey , you start working at

17:15

that job , you start getting into

17:17

into , into everything that happens

17:19

in life and suddenly you know how we start

17:21

disappearing and it's tough to meet new people

17:23

and it's tough to to connect with

17:25

someone about something . Right , like , yeah , I feel

17:27

like as much as I , as

17:29

much as I am a social

17:31

human right and

17:34

I interact with more with people from

17:36

work than anyone else . Right , you know

17:38

you have to same conversation with over

17:40

and over again and we have , like like some

17:42

kind of goal , like now , at my age

17:44

I don't say my age like I'm 95

17:47

years old . But

17:50

my point is , like you know , my interests are very

17:52

, are very clear , who I am , and very clear

17:54

, and I have conversations . People

17:56

that I know have a very similar interest on

17:58

me . So now pickable comes into the

18:00

picture . In probably the most socially

18:03

separated we were being as a species

18:05

, it comes in and suddenly

18:07

you start going to a town meeting

18:09

people , having a social thing and you have an

18:11

objective . After work , you have a place

18:13

to be and a community to be with . And

18:16

they're not that many sports

18:18

where you just show up into a park , people

18:20

accept you . You jump into

18:23

a , into a court of six , six

18:25

courts . You start playing , you start rotating and

18:27

people from all ages out

18:29

of there . So you know it's

18:31

, it's just so accepting of

18:34

whoever you are , how a let it you

18:36

are . And and hey , you cannot

18:38

get that in . Pick up because I'll pick a basketball , pick

18:40

a basketball . You know you go under some

18:42

great athletes playing pick a basketball . If I , if I

18:44

haven't played basketball in my life , I'm not gonna go

18:46

and ruin their game because Because

18:48

you know it's just just , you know it's

18:50

just not cool . So , but impeccable

18:53

is the opposite . People see

18:55

you coming in the first day and they are like come

18:57

in one more To to the cult

18:59

like you described it . So you

19:02

know , for us , you know that happens live

19:04

. I think I'm finding the community

19:06

is important and then Getting

19:09

a little bit of that competitive spirit that

19:11

had disappeared . You know more almost all our lives

19:13

and feeling that nerves and you're playing and the

19:15

little thing on your stomach that doesn't

19:17

happen anymore . So it's , it's

19:19

, it's fantastic .

19:21

Bro , I can tell you used to working sales man . You

19:23

just sold me . I'm in like . I'm gonna buy one

19:25

tomorrow . Really quick , you just this right

19:28

before the podcast . Did you nail your pickleball

19:30

racket to the wall ? Do they actually

19:32

have holes there or did you just like take a racket

19:34

and just , freaking , throw nails through it ?

19:36

That's it . I don't know what you're talking about . That paddle has always

19:38

been there for my you

19:42

know , that's that came with the house .

19:44

You know , I think , yeah , we

19:46

, we had a we have a little male

19:48

.

19:49

I would go now and it's it's

19:51

not floating in the air and I was able to

19:53

yeah , I was able to put it so funny .

19:56

This is a good segue to the money in

19:58

pickleball . Yeah , first , tito

20:01

, do you agree

20:04

or disagree with the statement

20:06

? Pickleball is one of the

20:08

most under monetized opportunities

20:11

that exists right now .

20:14

And I . I agree

20:16

and disagree , right . I

20:19

agree that maybe the results are

20:21

not there , but the intention of

20:23

monetizing pickleball it's

20:26

like anything else I've ever seen

20:28

. So I think everyone

20:30

in the space is trying to figure out exactly

20:33

how to monetize . I mean , I get page on an idea

20:35

14 times a day constantly

20:37

different groups . So so I have

20:39

people from from software , from events , from

20:41

people from amazing backgrounds

20:43

I'm not talking about , you know , a random person

20:46

that comes into my calendar , but people from

20:48

but build amazing companies , just

20:50

constantly finding ideas and finding

20:52

what's . What is it to to get in here

20:54

? Is it the pro side ? This is the amateur side

20:57

, is it ? Is it the paddle , is it the retail

20:59

? But I've never seen so

21:01

many brands of anything pop . I mean , there is like

21:03

40 software . There is like there

21:06

is like a you know , I don't know how many paddles

21:08

are popping in right now hundreds of paddles

21:10

at this point shoes Facilities

21:13

. We have franchising facilities , yeah , top-goes

21:15

type of facilities . This is I

21:18

you know . Again , I've never seen anything

21:20

like this . So I think you know , I think

21:23

it's so early , I think we're gonna start seeing things

21:25

click and click and click and

21:27

something so and you know . Usually with these industries

21:29

you get a couple that click and then 50

21:32

that disappear and you never hear about them again . But

21:34

right , you know , there is a race to

21:36

make it click . But you're

21:39

right , no one has really Hated

21:41

yet .

21:42

Here's so . So I was looking

21:45

at some revenue numbers for the industry

21:47

and I was looking at the player Analytics

21:49

for the industry . So we we're past

21:52

30 million players . Unless this

21:54

, these are wrong unless these stats

21:56

are wrong , but I think it's widely

21:58

accepted now and it's credible that

22:00

we're past 30 million in the US

22:02

and the

22:05

US is only what ? 350

22:08

million people I mean we're almost , we're

22:10

probably about 10% of

22:12

every human in America

22:15

is playing pickleball at some point

22:17

throughout the month and year . That's

22:21

crazy . That's like

22:23

that's insane . Then you look

22:25

at the revenue

22:28

analytics which , granted

22:30

, are hard to capture . So there's

22:32

it's probably not accurate , but

22:35

they're embarrassingly low . I was doing like

22:37

napkin math . It was like four

22:39

dollars per player per year that we're

22:41

capitalizing and , and the

22:43

primary capture of that

22:45

revenue , I think , unless

22:48

you correct me , is paddle companies

22:50

, and this

22:53

is a lesson for Dustin and everybody who

22:55

doesn't play pickleball . This

22:58

was a pickleball paddle , this

23:01

is wood and

23:04

you could make this , you know , from

23:06

Home Depot or you could buy

23:08

it for $12 . There's

23:11

where we've come to now . We

23:13

went through these cycles

23:16

of paddle technology . We're now

23:18

at carbon fiber surfaces

23:20

and Hex . They're like

23:22

inside . Here would be a hex

23:24

shape for the architecture to make

23:26

a bigger sweet spot . They have

23:28

dumped so much R&D into how to manufacture

23:31

a pickleball .

23:32

This is like skiing . This is just like skiing . Yeah

23:34

, it was just two pieces of wood you strap on your foot , but

23:36

now it's like this huge technology quickly

23:38

they got yep angles .

23:40

And what you see . This shocked me when I first

23:42

went and played , because I have one table

23:44

tennis bat , so

23:47

it's professional rubber

23:49

on each side and you have to order

23:51

it custom and you kind of you

23:53

kind of get a brand you like and then

23:55

you like get some glue and you put it

23:57

on your blade they call it which is the paddle , and

24:01

you make your own custom table tennis

24:03

bat . And you , you

24:05

know for me like I wanted more power

24:08

on my forehand and more control on my backhand

24:11

for table tennis , but

24:14

I only have one . That's that nice

24:16

because I tested it and then I

24:18

found one . I would go to the pickleball

24:20

courts and people have full-on duffel

24:22

bags of like eight

24:25

or ten different paddles and

24:27

all their balls and you

24:29

look at like a serious , you know

24:31

, like intermediate player . They

24:33

could have eight paddles and each

24:35

paddle could be $200 a

24:38

paddle and so

24:40

the margin on that they're making these paddles

24:42

. Now you know you order them bulk from China

24:44

. You could get a , you know , a

24:46

500 piece minimum run or something

24:48

like that , and you could get them for 30

24:51

bucks a paddle , a really nice one , and

24:53

then brand it and all that stuff

24:55

, but then it

24:57

becomes like a marketing company . In order

25:00

to get traction in the paddle space , you

25:02

have to sell it for 150 , 200

25:04

, 250 bucks , and then you've got to start

25:07

paying licensing deals . You got to start paying pros , you

25:09

got to start paying YouTubers and tick

25:11

talkers and like it eats

25:13

up all your marketing , all your margin

25:15

, and then you have to have staff and quality assurance

25:18

. So I think we've

25:20

already hit like a

25:22

maturity level for paddles where

25:25

the technology I don't know how much

25:28

more we can go past it , but

25:31

we do know how much people are willing to pay

25:33

and not pay there's just

25:35

a sweet spot and and there are these

25:37

set margins . I don't think

25:39

anybody's going to invent a $500 paddle

25:41

that is suddenly going to take the

25:43

industry by storm . But you compare

25:46

this to anything else , Like

25:48

you said , skiing . People

25:50

will spend $10,000

25:53

skiing for a season . People

25:56

will , a lot of people will spend 1000

25:58

every every season . But

26:01

pickleball players are spending on average

26:03

$4 , like when you do all the math . Is that true ?

26:06

Cause I , so I've talked to . I have a coworker . She's

26:09

lovely , a little bit

26:11

older than me , and she spent a lot of money on it and

26:14

I'm surprised everybody have talked to who's in the pickleball . Generally , from what

26:16

I can tell , I

26:18

spend a lot of money on pickleball or beer . On what

26:20

paddles Is it

26:23

? Paddles and balls and balls .

26:24

But actually actually the

26:27

biggest . The companies who are doing the best in

26:29

the pickle space are actually the ones who have the balls

26:31

. The bigger they're making more money on balls

26:33

than than on than on paddles

26:35

. And so that's the ball . The

26:38

ball is the is the number one , is the number

26:40

one item that

26:42

makes sense . That makes money . Then paddles

26:44

, of course , and the margins are , are great and

26:48

yeah , I think I think , listen , I think we can

26:50

. I think , when you look at that the other big thing is and

26:52

when you look at the , that , the bucket of people , you

26:55

look at the 36 million number

26:57

, someone , some people , say 50 million . Some

26:59

people say say , say

27:01

it's 20 million . But whatever it is , you

27:03

know you have three buckets . You have the beginner right , the

27:05

player who comes the first time , who buys their , who

27:07

buys their .

27:08

Target paddles Yep .

27:10

Go someplace and spends you

27:12

know nothing , or or borrows them or read some

27:14

at the club and goes

27:16

to a public park or a or a place where they have painted

27:20

lines in it . Right , Right . And then

27:22

we have which a lot of the 36

27:24

million are still on that or are coming

27:26

in through that , through that spend

27:28

right . Then we have . Then we have the

27:30

, the rec player who is starting

27:33

to get addicted to it , who is starting to

27:35

. You know , they buy their first paddle . That first paddle

27:37

last a little more , they're still starting to spend

27:39

a little more money , but still they're going to the park , they're still

27:41

not spending too much money . And

27:44

then you have what is what we call the rec

27:46

competitive player , which the rec competitive player

27:48

is not competitive . Don't don't

27:50

get me wrong . Competitive it doesn't mean that you are a

27:53

professional or or trying to be a professional , it

27:55

could be that it's willing

27:58

, that persona is willing to spend so

28:00

much money in the sport , right ? So

28:03

I think the key here is how , for all

28:05

of these industries and for everyone else is how do

28:07

you convert the beginner and the rec player

28:09

into the rec competitive

28:11

player to be able to To adopt ?

28:13

That's the part that needs to click here and

28:15

because some of the business

28:18

fundamentals that I wanted to like talk

28:20

about today . Like is

28:22

in between those two , because I

28:24

see the money chasing the pro scene , which

28:27

means they're chasing

28:29

views . That's what . That's what

28:31

really it . It means , right , you're

28:33

selling PR , you're selling eyeballs

28:35

, you're selling attention . Why

28:38

? So that those eyeballs will

28:40

buy paddles and balls , or , or

28:42

now , adidas . You know , or

28:44

you know , it's going to be shoes

28:46

, it's the basics duffel bags

28:48

. The

28:52

pro scene is only going to be watched

28:54

by the

28:57

upper intermediate and above . It's

28:59

not really going to be what ? Like ? My wife

29:01

is playing pickleball now every week . We play every

29:04

Sunday with some friends casually

29:06

and and I'm usually playing the

29:08

role of coach with that group and

29:11

and I go have fun because they're having

29:13

fun and my kids can play too , and we

29:16

spread out and we make a mess on the on the local

29:18

courts , but then

29:20

she's never

29:22

going to turn on pickleball . She'll laugh

29:24

at me if pro pickleball is in

29:26

the living room , but she will watch the Super

29:28

Bowl . So you're not going to get the

29:31

eyeballs of probably out of that 30 million . You're

29:33

probably not going to get the eyeballs of 25

29:36

of the million there's

29:38

. This 5 million person

29:40

is my guest . This is just a guest and

29:42

an example , but they are willing

29:44

to spend like . I wouldn't be surprised

29:46

if this year I find

29:49

a way to spend $2,000 on on

29:51

pickleball , for whatever

29:53

reason could be tournament entry fees , could

29:55

be paddles , could be balls . Maybe

29:58

I'll buy a pickleball ball machine . I

30:01

think there aren't enough good ones of those .

30:04

I mean my first pickleball paddle I've

30:07

got seven , I can just send

30:09

you one . Send me one . I don't want to try

30:11

it .

30:12

So our journey with paddles was like , okay , here's

30:14

$12 . And then

30:16

this is . I think this is my wife's

30:18

paddle . This is like 70 or 80 bucks .

30:20

Oh my gosh .

30:21

And then this one was like I

30:24

don't know if you know the brand Tito Pro light .

30:26

These guys were like , um , they were the big thing , yeah , yeah .

30:29

Yeah , I like this one . This is carbon fiber

30:31

surface . It's

30:34

a little thinner than I liked

30:36

. It was $110 . And then I

30:38

got a 6.0 once I started playing

30:42

with better people and this was I don't

30:44

remember what it was 180 maybe . And

30:46

now I'm looking at the Selkirk . You know what

30:48

is it ? The Lux Control Air . It's

30:50

all marketing . But like you

30:53

find your sweet spot on what you want

30:55

and then you pay for what you feel

30:57

good with and you stick with it

30:59

and they wear out too . So like

31:01

I think after a year or two you

31:03

probably got to buy another one if you're going to keep playing

31:06

seriously , because the grit wears off

31:08

. But

31:11

that's not how I . That's not where I see the

31:13

wave of opportunity here . I've been thinking

31:15

like I live

31:17

in Northern California . To my knowledge

31:19

, sacramento doesn't have a good big indoor

31:22

club . Now Phoenix

31:24

. I called my brother in Phoenix this morning . They

31:26

have tons of clubs

31:28

Indoor , like it's so hot

31:30

and arid and the culture of

31:33

Phoenix . They are very indoor

31:35

. Outdoor they have year

31:37

round swimming , they have indoor

31:40

everything . It

31:43

made sense there as a hot bed . But

31:45

in Sacramento , which isn't that

31:47

much smaller than Phoenix , it

31:51

needs this kind

31:53

of next evolution , I'm sure in the next two years it'll

31:55

pop up . It's not going to be me . You

31:57

know these clubs will pop up and

31:59

they will make a lot of money Is

32:02

that's where you're saying like , the biggest opportunity is like

32:04

starting clubs aimed at these

32:06

not professional , but they kind of want to hang out

32:08

with the professional people .

32:10

I would say it's like a solid

32:12

.

32:13

You know it's like batting a single

32:15

. I would say if you could start a club before

32:18

one is in a major city , you'll

32:20

get the membership quickly because it's a cult

32:22

following . And there's the people like me

32:24

who want to play with people a little bit better , more

32:27

consistently , and I need an

32:29

app like Dupre to help

32:31

me connect with community members that

32:34

are playing more around my level so that I

32:36

can maximize my time , because really the issue

32:38

is time . I want to

32:40

play socially , but I also don't

32:43

want to go spend like the only hours

32:45

I have this week playing

32:48

down , like I

32:50

want to learn and get better prepping

32:52

for tournaments , like so I need to play up

32:54

and so

32:56

there's help me out here I'm .

32:58

So hold on . I want to see what is the

33:00

business idea here . Are you saying like , let's go start

33:02

a club in a small to medium sized

33:04

town and that would be a really good opportunity to

33:06

capitalize on this giant

33:09

wave ?

33:11

If you're a player in a good business person in local

33:14

business , then it's very doable

33:16

if your city doesn't have one .

33:19

I think . Sorry , kendall , I think that's

33:22

great . I come from the facility management side . I was

33:24

somehow my career and they're more on the tennis

33:26

side . Right , I was a director

33:28

. I didn't own the facility , but

33:30

I was a director in a facility and I

33:33

worked with potentially 5,000

33:35

clubs , both on the tennis and

33:38

pickable side . One

33:40

of the big things that we don't have in the country right now

33:42

is we don't have real estate

33:45

. So now you're starting

33:47

to see this franchise as opening up . These

33:50

clubs are opening 37

33:52

, 40 facilities all over the country . There

33:54

is a little bit of a race , I think . Lifetime

33:57

fitness , for example

33:59

, they're the biggest provider of pickable

34:01

courts in the world .

34:05

How much is a membership to lifetime ?

34:07

I remember to lifetime . I think it's around for

34:10

pickable . I think they have a pickable specific , so I'm

34:12

not sure that number . But membership

34:14

is like over $200 a

34:16

month . They're a fitness center too , right .

34:18

Yeah , they're really nice fitness

34:20

.

34:21

So we're starting to see these facilities pop up

34:24

more and more . I know

34:26

in tennis would

34:28

happen . Just to give you a little bit of an example is that

34:30

in the 80s , tennis exploded

34:32

. Everyone wanted to play tennis , tennis , tennis

34:34

. So there was a bill through Congress to build

34:36

tennis courts nationwide . That's

34:38

why you go to every park in America and you see a

34:40

tennis court . I love it . It's my first

34:42

court Because it was federal funds . Yeah

34:45

, it was all public .

34:47

I was wondering how did this

34:50

happen ?

34:50

Yeah , so you see that in every park in America

34:53

you go , you're going to see tennis courts . Some of them have beautiful

34:55

tennis courts . So , and listen , I

34:57

don't know if that's going to happen with pickable

34:59

, but the opportunity that's happening is that now you

35:01

have clubs popping in that two

35:03

years weren't there , so we have

35:06

over 2,000 clubs on the platform already

35:08

. That's insane . We're

35:10

seeing this not only in the US , but we're seeing

35:12

this in China . China has a new club popping

35:14

every single week . Really

35:17

, yeah , the sport is exploding

35:19

in Asia , exploding to the next level .

35:21

That's awesome .

35:23

So what we're seeing with the sport

35:25

is , yes , the real state is going to get that . I

35:27

think , of course , like everything else , like when

35:30

it's new , we're seeing a little bit of a too

35:32

many popping up or too many ideas

35:34

, a bubble completely , and then the

35:36

key ones are going to , they're going to stay and

35:38

they're going to do their business and then

35:40

again we're going to understand , capitalizing

35:42

on the things that happen in

35:44

those facilities . So the real state

35:47

, what is a club ? I

35:49

think if you put it in , it's like everything . It's like

35:51

you put it in a right location , you're selling time

35:53

and space . People always think

35:56

they confuse them the format

35:58

of how to make this work . At the end of the day , it's

36:00

time and space . You need to wrap it and you are

36:04

. You want to make sure that it's convenient enough

36:06

, so people want to come . As

36:08

Kendall was saying , it's 5pm . I've

36:11

been working all day and now I have the kids at home

36:13

, so I need to go to the facility

36:15

, get my session in , have fun , try

36:18

to keep as much of the community . That

36:20

worries me , the fact that these private clubs are popping

36:22

in in the community setting . I

36:24

think that in the future , you

36:26

will end up playing

36:28

with your people that

36:31

you play with , with your group , because

36:33

it's not going to be . You're going to lose

36:35

on the open play because the club is going to want

36:37

to sell more space and time , more

36:40

space and time .

36:40

You can solve that , I think , as a platform

36:43

provider with the rating system

36:45

, I think . So I have

36:50

empathy for you because you

36:53

have a really hard job , because you have a hard

36:55

business . The

36:58

way I explained it to Dustin

37:01

earlier before this call we were talking

37:03

, I was giving him some updates on my ideas . I

37:07

think that Dupre as a rating system

37:10

is absolutely necessary

37:12

to every player and

37:15

the community , but it's

37:18

the first thing to get blamed when

37:21

something isn't well

37:23

loved .

37:25

What do people say ? What's

37:28

your big complaint ?

37:29

Why don't you tell us what

37:31

do ? People complain about ? Yeah , consumer complaints .

37:32

So , listen , I think we

37:35

are a company that's two years old and I need

37:37

to free the hard to explore there . So

37:39

, first of all , data algorithms

37:41

and ratings take time

37:44

. They take data consumption

37:46

.

37:46

Yeah , and you don't have the data . It's all new . That's the hard

37:48

part .

37:49

We're adding this and also the evolution of the player

37:51

is impeccable because he's such a new sport . Camel

37:54

might start today as a 3-0

37:56

and he's an athletic guy who plays ping

37:58

pong and has racket sports and motor skills

38:01

. In a year he's a 4-5

38:03

competing at a very high level . Many

38:08

people do the argument and say

38:10

how can we get it a little faster ? I

38:12

think the big answer is play

38:15

more the rating . When we have someone with

38:17

enough data we can

38:19

talk about the curious . But he's insanely active

38:21

, like our all .

38:22

Some percentage of wins when we measure

38:24

those heads to heads is very

38:27

rare that that was a true

38:29

97% was the number I

38:31

saw on one of the Reddit forums , or something like

38:33

that .

38:34

So I think it depends

38:37

on what the match are , but we are looking at 78%

38:39

regularly when it comes

38:41

to 80% , something like that when

38:43

it comes to pro games , are

38:46

we ?

38:47

are we talking predicting win rate ? Are we talking literal

38:49

?

38:49

points within the win . Score , yeah , score

38:51

. That's amazing . To the score level that's awesome .

38:53

So literally you can say , hey , joe Schmoe

38:56

and Jane Doe over there are playing and

38:58

he's got a , he's a 4-8 , she's

39:00

a 3-0 , they're going to do a

39:02

7th point spread in here and here

39:04

and you can say that within a 70%

39:06

accuracy if you have enough data on the players .

39:08

So we're looking , we're looking , we're looking at . So when

39:10

we put the head to heads , we do the percentage chance win . That's

39:13

the way we put it right . But we are measuring

39:15

, we're measuring , we're measuring points

39:17

into the system

39:19

and what ? How close are we going to

39:21

get to that space

39:23

? So , yeah

39:25

, we are . Listen , we have a

39:27

and you know , we have a data

39:30

team that is world-class and

39:32

sometimes people think they know more from

39:35

people who are extremely educated

39:37

. And Scott Mendelssohn , who runs

39:40

our data team , right

39:42

, he's a genius . I mean , no , I don't

39:44

, I mean listen to his

39:46

podcast interviews . Yeah

39:48

, he's an actual genius . Not

39:51

only that massive guy

39:53

, like great guy , like freaking , like , who is

39:55

looking at this in an obsessive way . It comes from

39:57

the Goldman Sachs Citadel , some

39:59

of the biggest companies in the world looking at very

40:01

complex finance algorithms

40:04

, and this is the guy that we have working

40:06

in our pickable algorithm . So we are like community

40:08

is so lucky that this is the

40:11

guy looking at this . So there is

40:13

a lot of me misconception

40:15

, not understanding what comes

40:17

behind and and

40:19

and , honestly , a lot

40:21

of it it's not to be blamed on the population

40:23

, is to be blamed on us , because

40:26

we are learning how to communicate

40:28

this in an efficient way so

40:31

.

40:32

So the social aspect of this is your

40:34

is a huge challenge because you

40:37

have people

40:39

who want recreation , play

40:41

and that's their paradigm

40:44

of the sport and

40:46

most of these clubs

40:49

you know a lot of people don't know this if they haven't

40:51

played but most of these community

40:53

centers or free courts to go play

40:56

in , there's a paddle holding system

40:58

. You can show up as an individual , even

41:00

though it's a four player game , and you

41:02

put your paddle in a waiting queue

41:04

and people

41:06

rotate off . When they finish a game

41:08

they say courts open , the next four players

41:10

come on . So what happens

41:12

is you make friends on

41:14

the go . These aren't as big as tennis courts

41:16

. They're a lot smaller , they're like a quarter of the size . So

41:19

you you're right next to your

41:21

partners and your opponents . You can talk

41:24

casually while you play and

41:26

the wiffle ball moves slower than a tennis

41:28

ball or a ping pong ball . So you'll

41:31

be playing and making comments

41:33

and learning each other . Since a humor , it's very

41:35

social . So in comes

41:37

Dupur , or you know , weekend

41:40

tournaments or the people

41:42

who really are like I'm going

41:44

to buy another $200 paddle and I'm

41:47

going to get a ball machine and I'm going to drill

41:49

, I'm going to professional coach . What

41:51

happens is this click

41:53

, these , these people start creating

41:56

subgroups . They don't want to play with any other

41:58

people and the attitude

42:00

of the community is like oh , that's

42:02

the click , those guys . They're

42:05

not as nice as the rest of the community and

42:08

Dupur has this challenge where

42:11

the people who care

42:13

most about their rating are in

42:15

this click . That's less social

42:17

. But the people who

42:19

Dupur wants to serve

42:21

are in the broader audience

42:24

where the rating

42:26

system really would help them . It

42:28

would . It would help them understand

42:30

where they stand or how to get casual

42:33

friends . And I

42:35

I even wanted to ask you

42:37

, tito , like do you have intentions

42:40

to go towards ? Like communities

42:42

Like ? I'm in Facebook groups for pickle

42:44

, for pickleball , and I I've

42:46

had professional communities online before

42:49

. I've started them , I've participated

42:51

in them . I have entrepreneur groups and

42:53

I think that's community can be off court too

42:55

.

42:56

For sure . For sure . No , I think

42:58

community is the right answer . We just added

43:00

the the feeds I don't

43:02

know if you saw that on the app , so now you're able to

43:04

follow people check , you're able to post pictures , that's

43:07

perfect . You're able to comment on their

43:09

match results and have the community . So

43:12

you're , you're , you're completely right . I

43:14

think there is a little bit of a protectiveness of my rating

43:16

. Right , and how ? How do I ? How do

43:18

I stay here ? I was just groups

43:20

, this doesn't affect me and perception

43:23

, and I'm a four O and I when

43:25

I go to the park . I am a four O , you

43:27

know , and I think one one

43:29

of the things that we're trying to change is

43:31

for people to understand that the

43:34

more , the more matches that we put win or loss

43:36

is data that we're collecting to be able

43:38

to give you a better representation of

43:40

who you are in the pickleball space , so

43:42

you can get level based games

43:45

right . And I think it's not about . I

43:47

think our biggest challenge , kendall

43:50

, is like you were describing it this this

43:52

is Dupre is not about status , and

43:54

that's what . That's what we need to change . Dupre

43:57

is about finding meaningful

44:00

games and having fun

44:02

with the community and

44:04

and that's the message I wanted to translate , to

44:07

make sure that everyone sees that that , hey

44:09

, it doesn't matter if I had a bad day and I lost

44:11

, like that's not over time . When you have a

44:14

complex algorithm , that's all of this matches

44:16

in . You know , having one bad game

44:18

or one , two games , it's not going to , it's not going to

44:20

take you down or it's going to

44:22

do that .

44:23

Yeah , I want to pause you right there because you just said

44:25

something really interesting . Dupre is about

44:27

community or it's about

44:30

finding games that are interesting to you

44:32

, but when I go to your website

44:34

it says the

44:36

world's most accurate pickleball rating

44:39

, which is those douches that

44:41

I play with . They care about

44:43

that message . Yeah , and

44:45

. And so there is a brand , you

44:48

know challenge in front of you . For

44:51

how do I engage ? You know

44:53

my grandpa place he's . We're

44:55

a really young family . Everybody gets pregnant

44:57

and has babies at like 19 years old . So

45:00

he now has a great , great grandbaby

45:02

. But he mountain bikes

45:05

, he hikes and he plays pickleball those

45:08

are his any gardens and he's a farmer

45:10

and and . But he's 85

45:12

years old and he

45:17

could give a shit about his dooper . He

45:19

does not care , um

45:21

, but what he does

45:23

love is community

45:26

, both in his mountain biking groups and

45:28

his pickleball friends . He

45:30

, he has learned how to use a cell phone

45:33

to text in the last three years

45:35

because he wanted to play with his friends , so

45:38

he actually adopted like

45:40

using a cell phone and texting , because

45:42

the social aspect of pickleball and

45:45

mountain biking , um , how

45:49

does dooper face that challenge

45:51

? Cause , here you have an extremely accurate

45:55

, substantive product , but

45:58

the people who care about it most are

46:00

almost the people fighting the

46:03

, the social community

46:05

.

46:06

Yeah , yeah , I , I , I . That's

46:08

a great question . I think , listen , I

46:10

think many of these companies like dooper

46:13

and similar things in

46:15

any other sport , they're a little

46:17

bit of like a bottom

46:19

down , like a pyramid right , and they start on

46:21

the top and we , and that's how they start getting a name

46:23

and now the pros are using it . So the , the

46:25

wannabe pros wanna wanna wanna

46:28

be part of that circle and then the people

46:30

in that community wanna wanna be there

46:32

. But I think , kendall , I think the most

46:34

important part and and the key target

46:37

for dooper is empowering

46:39

, empowering the , empowering the ambassador

46:42

in the community , empowering the person who

46:44

has the team reach up or

46:46

the WhatsApp group or the meetup or

46:48

the Facebook group Right If we're able to make

46:51

that person's life easier .

46:53

It was for them Exactly .

46:56

Those are the ones who move the needle right and we

46:58

all know that in any sport that we have any

47:00

community gaming , whatever you're at , you

47:03

know there is a group admin , there is a person

47:05

who is willing to to put the things

47:07

and put the work and no one else is . And

47:10

, and you know , our objective

47:12

this next couple of years is learn from that persona

47:14

, bring them in . We have a new ambassador program

47:16

, we have a new well , we , you know

47:18

, we wanna learn from . What can we do

47:21

for that person , because we call

47:23

them the champions . If we

47:25

, if we get the champion and we give them

47:27

what they deserve for everything that we do for our

47:29

sport , the champion will bring the

47:31

community with him .

47:33

That's so cool . Can

47:35

I ? Can I ask you a bunch of really quick questions and

47:37

just answer them as fast as you can ? I just wanna

47:39

, I just wanna , like I just wanna , ask

47:41

you a few kinds of curious . Okay , number one you

47:44

guys have the most data on pickleball , is that correct

47:46

?

47:47

Yes , okay .

47:48

What region of the world has the best pickleball players

47:50

?

47:52

Florida , florida .

47:53

No , for real . Yeah , how's California

47:56

on the ranking ?

47:57

It's , it's , it's taking a third .

48:00

You're lying to me . You're just trying to be polite . That's very

48:02

kind of you , no , no , it's , it's Southern .

48:03

Southern Cali so it's a make up for

48:05

for , for for pickleball yeah .

48:08

Okay , okay , that's awesome . Um , okay , uh

48:10

it within the context of business . You guys started

48:12

at a really really good time . If you're starting a business

48:14

, do you think it's better to have product market fit or

48:17

a really good team that can deliver well ?

48:22

a really good team . Oh , that's a good

48:25

answer .

48:25

Product market fit Really .

48:26

Yeah , Cause I can hire a better team

48:29

. But a really good team

48:31

can't change a shitty industry .

48:34

Listen , I think Kendall , I mean , listen

48:36

, I think Kendall is , you know I'm , I'm a very

48:38

, I'm a very my

48:40

people team persona and

48:43

you know I , I , you know that's the way I've

48:45

operated all my life . I think I think , listen , I

48:47

think in this case , where a clear example of market fit right

48:49

, we were at the right time , right Moment

48:51

. We hit it . It's undeniable . If

48:54

you asked me about dooper , I cannot , you know

48:56

I cannot . But at the same time

48:58

, I do believe that a , a

49:01

, a magical team together , willing

49:03

to grind and put the hours , is is a sauce

49:05

, is execution and how you get it

49:07

done Right . So , yes , it's

49:10

about , it's about being on the right time , right

49:12

place and and right market . I have a hundred percent

49:14

agree . But also , right now

49:16

, I'm willing to go 20 hours a day because

49:19

you know , I look around and I have another , another

49:21

person right next to me who we're looking and dreaming

49:23

together , right , and I think , like you

49:25

know , I think you know maybe a little bit , I'm a little bit of an emotion

49:28

, some passionate guy when it comes to the things , but

49:31

you know I would , I would give the life for my team and

49:34

I think that's what we're going to succeed because we're

49:36

all in a mission together .

49:37

I love that those things only happen

49:39

a few times in life when you have this league

49:41

of people that you are like you are like yeah

49:44

, no .

49:45

I would say that this is only the thing , that that

49:48

it only clicks with a certain

49:50

people once in a lifetime and you feel

49:52

, you look around , you feel what is the energy

49:54

and , yes , we were in the right place . But

49:57

also I'm I'm fighting this battle

49:59

with the right people around me and

50:01

and that's special , that's special . So hopefully I'm right

50:03

and all my , all my emotional

50:06

persona can can tell a good

50:08

story about this in the future .

50:10

You know it's funny . I don't know if you're right or wrong , but I sure

50:12

believe you . I mean , that's awesome , that sounds great

50:14

. You just maybe want to work for Dupre , which is really

50:17

cool . Okay , real quick . What

50:19

within Dupre ? What's the customer that you want to get

50:21

that you're not getting right now , and how are you trying

50:23

to get that customer ?

50:25

Yeah , I think the beginner . The beginner is the

50:27

, is the customer . That doesn't care

50:29

, it doesn't . There is no rating . You know

50:31

why will have a rating ? If I just want to go with

50:34

my three buddies on a Saturday to hip all

50:36

around and have that , I think . I think

50:38

one of the things I want to , I want to

50:40

, we want to create this is , you

50:43

know , have a , be the start of the

50:45

journey right and make sure that

50:47

you know , hey , get on , dupre

50:49

, take that , take the fear away and

50:51

, and you know , offer

50:54

solutions for them so again they can find

50:56

people finding people to play is the most

50:58

important thing , and to be able to keep playing

51:00

.

51:02

Um , on the on the beginner

51:04

journey , I see a huge

51:06

opportunity for

51:09

your

51:11

initial rating , whatever that onboard

51:13

to your first rating looks

51:15

like . Let's say it takes one

51:17

day and seven matches or whatever

51:19

it is , and then you can have a beginner

51:22

score that is somewhat

51:25

trustworthy . If

51:27

I got a map to

51:29

what things people at my level work

51:31

on in

51:34

my experience , then I

51:36

could self-learn without

51:39

my pesky husband . This

51:41

is my wife . My wife doesn't want to be told

51:43

you've got to make your third shot

51:45

drop . Now that you've

51:48

done that , make sure you drop it to their backhand

51:50

. Now that you've done that , maybe

51:53

put some topspin on it . There

51:55

are these changes that

51:57

happen from the beginner to intermediate

51:59

to intermediate , advanced to advanced , but

52:04

only some personalities

52:07

are so proactive they'll go find

52:09

it online , but

52:11

everybody bends to

52:13

social pressure . If

52:17

I could text my friends I

52:20

have 10 newbie friends

52:23

that I play with and

52:25

I'm their coach , even though I'm not a coach If

52:28

I could text them like

52:30

a duper recommendation

52:32

for the level that they're playing at , it's

52:36

very viral for you and

52:39

it's very helpful

52:41

for them because they can go self-explore

52:43

. What did that

52:45

even mean ? What does third shot drop even mean ? Yeah

52:48

, instead of being embarrassed tomorrow when they

52:50

go out there and they're partner that they've never met before . It

52:53

says let's just try to drop it , not drive it . There's

52:56

little phrases

52:59

that people don't know . But they

53:01

need a guide . But they're not at the

53:03

level yet where they're willing to go pay a coach

53:05

or go invest heavily . They

53:07

just need a guide .

53:09

Hey , I love the idea , trust

53:12

me . Well

53:14

, that's something that will bring up to

53:16

the team . I think the guide concept

53:18

. You just give us a little

53:20

gold here because you're right . I

53:23

think this is an adult sport

53:25

right now . It's getting younger and younger , but

53:28

no one wants to be at anything

53:30

you do . You want to fit in it's

53:33

a human behavior . You

53:35

don't want to feel like . I went to Jiu Jitsu

53:37

for a couple of months and

53:39

in the first couple of weeks at Jiu Jitsu I

53:42

was embarrassed like there's a 14-year-old

53:44

kid who is kicking my butt in front of everyone every

53:46

time I come and I don't know what

53:48

I'm doing . So

53:51

you're right . I mean , if we're able to be a

53:53

bridge between the beginner

53:55

, take the fear away and offer

53:58

opportunities to nerd

54:00

out from the beginning , right , and

54:03

go there and be like , hey , you know what ? I think I'm going to

54:05

be a banger , right , great . Like

54:07

you know , that's a person

54:09

that you want to adopt and you can develop and

54:12

grow into the community . But , yeah

54:14

, I think those are the answers to

54:16

those questions . As a young company , those are the things

54:18

that we are looking at , evaluating on the

54:20

whiteboard daily , because

54:22

we think that , hey , we're able to get the right answers

54:25

, the right products , the right things . You know , with the

54:27

market adoption that we have right now , we're

54:30

sitting in one of the most exciting companies ever

54:32

.

54:32

Yeah , OK , I have just

54:34

a couple more questions for you . I know we're like getting

54:37

close on time here . This a

54:39

few more . One is very business-related . Tito

54:42

, you're in an extremely fast-growing company and

54:45

so far you've been extremely successful . How

54:47

do you choose who to hire ? Like

54:50

what do you do ? Do you

54:52

have a process for that Like ? Do you have , like a ? This

54:54

is how I choose , this is the person I do and this is

54:56

the person I don't .

54:58

Listen , I think it really depends on . It depends

55:00

on

55:03

the wrong that we're bringing

55:05

and it also depends on

55:07

the stage of the company , right ? I think it's

55:09

a whole different process of hiring . You know , months

55:11

to one , months to six months , one year . I

55:14

think at the start of level , you

55:16

want people that are bothered into the passion , right

55:19

? I think any startup . It requires

55:21

a certain level of commitment and engagement

55:23

and wanting an ownership

55:25

that sometimes , when you go

55:27

into the next level and companies operationalize

55:29

right , that happens for every

55:32

. That's where you want to get right , where

55:34

people want to come and be a nine

55:36

to five . I think that

55:38

happens at some point . The thing we as a startup

55:41

, you need the opposite mentality . You

55:43

need to have the people that you need

55:45

to tell them hey , close your laptop

55:47

, go to bed , like we can

55:49

keep this passion up tomorrow . So

55:52

I'm looking at this stage , I'm

55:54

looking for journey people , people who are willing

55:57

to jump on this ship with

55:59

me and I can trust

56:01

, I can believe in them and , honestly

56:05

, we can be happy together . Because

56:07

you spent all of your life working

56:10

, you spent all 90% of my

56:12

day doing this . I need to wake up in

56:14

the morning and be with someone that I'm enjoying

56:16

the journey with and not having a lot of time

56:18

, so yeah , that's cool .

56:21

Okay , I love that answer . I only ask

56:23

that because every single book I read about entrepreneurs

56:25

they say like that's legitimately one of the hardest

56:27

things you can do is choose the right people to hire , especially

56:30

when you're building a company , and so far you've been successful

56:32

about that and that's fantastic . I love that . What

56:34

was the oh , if I wanted to start a business

56:37

and pick a bull right now ? Is there an area that you

56:39

think is slightly under tapped , like you could probably

56:41

go in that direction and there's room

56:43

for growth ? Do you have any insight , any input

56:46

on that ?

56:47

You know it's funny . I got this question hey

56:49

, I've been getting this question quite a bit , oh

56:51

yeah and

56:55

I think the coaching space is a space that is

56:57

under tapped . I think there is not that many coaches

56:59

. I think that no one

57:02

is really going out there and

57:05

offering the stitching moment , which I think is gonna

57:07

be big in the future . And I think in the

57:09

tech space we're seeing , we're seeing a lot

57:11

of different ideas and pop-ups coming up

57:13

. Some great companies retail

57:15

the same thing , but I think the most

57:17

important part in the future is that

57:19

engagement with the consumers

57:21

, or coaching , or

57:26

helping and advising

57:28

these new facilities , how to

57:30

engage with the community , some kind of consulting

57:32

. I think those are important . I think we have a lot of real

57:35

estate minded people who are opening

57:37

big facilities , but

57:40

now you need to make sure that you're building a community

57:42

side of the facility . So wherever

57:44

those things more on

57:46

the human and consumer side is where I will

57:49

bet . In every other

57:51

room I'm just seeing so

57:53

much . I'm just seeing almost like . I

57:57

feel like this is one of those industries where people are just sitting at

57:59

home with a piece of paper and like let's

58:02

put ideas together . So I've met some of the most creative

58:04

people trying to get something impeccable

58:07

. So stuff to say .

58:09

That's cool . That's cool man . I

58:11

could ask you a thousand more questions , but I think those are the big ones

58:13

. I wanted to ask you you got anything

58:15

?

58:16

I wanted to give you a second to

58:18

talk about the roadmap

58:21

, because I know that your product is

58:23

constantly

58:26

evolving . You even went backwards

58:28

in some of your algorithm

58:31

over the summer and the fall

58:33

this year in order to

58:35

give a better end user experience

58:37

. Even though you had the analytics to

58:39

be accurate , you started seeing that

58:42

the accuracy was actually combating

58:45

adoption

58:48

because people assumed , like

58:50

what the heck , I can go play and

58:52

win and my rating could go down

58:54

because they didn't realize they

58:57

weren't educated that , while the points that

58:59

you gave up were

59:02

actually hurting your rating in that game

59:04

, just under education . But

59:06

you can't possibly educate every single

59:08

user of your app or

59:11

you don't have a very growth-oriented

59:14

platform . It has to be intuitive

59:17

. So , as a CEO

59:19

and the lead visionary , obviously

59:22

it's your responsibility to be out

59:24

ahead of what your developers and what your team

59:27

executes on . So

59:30

, from your perspective , what are

59:32

the big few points over

59:34

the next 12 months , 18

59:36

months , that you guys are gonna execute

59:38

and roll out ?

59:39

Yeah , I think the number one is

59:42

transparency . I

59:44

think you just said the great points . I

59:47

think we had a very complex algorithm , but

59:50

we lack that understanding of the community

59:53

. We can explain however

59:56

we want how the algorithm

59:58

works and the dynamic the algorithm

1:00:00

is , and

1:00:04

we can do Q&As and we can do all of that . You

1:00:06

can expect that everyone who's their busy life

1:00:08

is gonna sit down and listen to a pickable

1:00:10

rating Q&A and listen from

1:00:12

A to B and get a conclusion . And

1:00:14

I get it . That's not their job . Their

1:00:16

job is to have fun and interact with the community

1:00:18

. So what we did is we wanted to step

1:00:21

back , simplify things and

1:00:23

evolve with the evolution

1:00:26

of our transparency tools . So

1:00:29

we can be complex

1:00:31

, but if we're able to show

1:00:33

you what that complexity means

1:00:35

, offering a complex black hole

1:00:38

, it's

1:00:41

not gonna resonate with the consumer . But

1:00:43

if I'm able to check pretty

1:00:45

much expectation , what's

1:00:47

the score supposed to be Now ?

1:00:49

we're changing this .

1:00:51

So now Kendall and I go and play

1:00:53

. We look at Dooper and he says hey , kendall

1:00:56

is supposed to be me 11 , 6

1:00:58

, 11 , 6 .

1:00:59

So now I know Other way around . You're the 5.0

1:01:01

player . If I'm playing at 4.4 , it's

1:01:04

gonna say you're gonna win 11 , 4

1:01:06

. You know .

1:01:07

Okay , that's cool . It adds so many dynamics of

1:01:09

like . Now there's mental pressure going into

1:01:11

the game which changes it in good

1:01:14

and bad ways .

1:01:14

I'm sure no , in good ways for me

1:01:17

as somebody who wants to grow , so , like , one

1:01:20

of the hard things with rec play is

1:01:23

I , you know

1:01:25

, like on Sundays I play down with

1:01:27

my casual friends who are just learning , but

1:01:30

then when I have my own time I wanna

1:01:32

go play with people who are better than me so I

1:01:34

can get really serious and I

1:01:36

can force myself to grow . But

1:01:39

if I don't have a way to know , is

1:01:42

that guy just bad or is he having

1:01:44

an off day or is

1:01:46

he playing down to me ? So he's

1:01:48

being lazy . So this shot that I think I'm

1:01:50

getting away with isn't gonna

1:01:52

actually be effective . That keeps happening

1:01:54

to me because Table Tennis has

1:01:56

, like let's just say , lots of slice , lots

1:01:59

of slice , and it

1:02:02

gets punished . In pickleball , slice has

1:02:04

a tendency to pop up

1:02:06

the ball just a little bit too high

1:02:08

and get crushed at the kitchen line , and

1:02:11

when I played three , five players , I

1:02:13

could put backspin on all day . They had no

1:02:15

idea what to do . When I

1:02:17

played 4.0 players , some of them knew

1:02:19

what to do , but now that I'm playing 4.5

1:02:21

players , they all know what to do with slice

1:02:23

, and so I'm getting punished

1:02:26

because I shouldn't hit that , drop that shot

1:02:28

. I should rely on topspin . But

1:02:30

I wouldn't know that unless

1:02:32

somebody told me and so

1:02:34

Dupur could have helped me you're saying

1:02:36

go into the app . I

1:02:39

could have said oh , here's your expectations , you're probably

1:02:41

gonna lose to this person and

1:02:43

they could see that you're probably gonna win

1:02:45

this score to this score . So they could

1:02:47

take it more seriously , because if

1:02:49

there's an upset , it doesn't help

1:02:52

them , it helps me .

1:02:53

Completely , completely . And you know you can

1:02:55

handicap as well this whole thing of like . And

1:02:58

, kendall , you know I think it's great

1:03:00

Some of the things

1:03:02

you said about hey , I wanna play app right

1:03:04

Because I wanna get better right . But what

1:03:06

if I told you that playing down you can also get better

1:03:08

right ? What if I tell you that , hey , just go and beat the

1:03:11

expectation right . Go and play with someone

1:03:13

like . The score is supposed to be 11.5 , 11.5

1:03:15

, in the future . Why not overperform

1:03:17

?

1:03:17

11.2, . Yeah , why not be in 11.2

1:03:20

?

1:03:20

Because that's all . That information at

1:03:22

some point is

1:03:24

going to be as valuable as

1:03:26

any other information . You know . You're showing

1:03:28

us that maybe we , you know you

1:03:31

are better and stronger than

1:03:33

we thought , so all of those data points

1:03:35

are key right , that's good and

1:03:37

that's the place that we're going to in the future

1:03:40

. right now , you know , we kept , I think , the other thing that

1:03:42

the winning and losing right Now

1:03:44

we still have winning and losing right

1:03:46

, we still keep that , kept that on the algo because that's something

1:03:49

that the way we're seeing

1:03:51

the community , this movement , wasn't

1:03:53

understood . It wasn't comprehended right , if I

1:03:55

win a tournament , how is there a chance that

1:03:58

my rating is going to go down ? That's unfair . I

1:04:00

don't like that . That . You're punishing me for winning , right

1:04:02

. So we kept those factors at risk and

1:04:04

I did with the community but we added the points

1:04:06

spread in between to make sure that

1:04:08

, hey , you go up and down based

1:04:10

on winning and losing . That's a factor and people

1:04:12

should , you should get credit for winning , but

1:04:15

the points in between are going to matter

1:04:17

in the way you go up and down . That's

1:04:20

good , that's so tough .

1:04:21

It holds me accountable .

1:04:24

Oh yeah , it's got to be so tough , though , because somebody in

1:04:26

Florida is going to have a wildly

1:04:28

different point system than somebody in South Dakota

1:04:30

. I'm sure Just winning

1:04:33

and losing and all that stuff . Tito , I

1:04:35

have one suggestion for your

1:04:37

business , and this is for free . This

1:04:39

is from me to you , my friend . The only

1:04:41

thing I wish the app had was a bedding

1:04:44

surface , so right before I go into my match , I

1:04:46

can just put money on the match , and

1:04:48

this is really easy for you to monetize . It's

1:04:50

so stupid easy for you to monetize

1:04:52

. It's also probably very illegal . So you're going

1:04:54

to have to move your business outside

1:04:57

of a like a the Cayman Islands

1:04:59

. Yeah , cayman Islands are pretty good . Actually , you're

1:05:01

going to have to move the Cayman Islands , but that's okay . I

1:05:04

think you'll enjoy it . And yeah

1:05:06

, man , you're going to make millions and I'm so

1:05:08

happy I can do that for you .

1:05:10

No , that's not great . We

1:05:13

actually have a little bit

1:05:15

. You know we are exclusive . We haven't made

1:05:17

the announcement yet . We made that small announcement and

1:05:19

I got a couple of months ago . But we know we have a a

1:05:21

partnership with a company named Lucra who does spreads

1:05:23

between between players and odds , and

1:05:26

you can find lines between friends , so

1:05:28

something . So I think that we're going

1:05:30

to have something coming out where bets between

1:05:32

friends in the future . You

1:05:34

can yes , you can have spreads and odds with between friends

1:05:37

and you know I get a couple . So so

1:05:39

something that's good . So that's that's

1:05:41

coming . We're going to bring more social tools , more

1:05:43

engagement tools . We are and

1:05:46

and you know something for the community

1:05:48

as well . I just want to , you know , I think you know this

1:05:50

is an app for you , for the player , for the people

1:05:52

. So we're always opening to suggestions

1:05:54

, we're always opening to hey , what shall we build

1:05:56

? I think you know we

1:05:58

don't have all of the answers and I think this is an evolving

1:06:01

industry . So you

1:06:03

know we are , we're going to go back to the community

1:06:05

and listen more and get

1:06:07

more of that feedback , because you know we want

1:06:09

to . We want people to copy , go to do brand , have

1:06:11

fun with it .

1:06:12

Are you guys going to do fantasy football

1:06:14

style you know , draft in the future

1:06:17

with the pro scene ?

1:06:18

No , as not as much as I said . You

1:06:20

know , I think that the pros are . You know we love

1:06:23

the pros . We are . We were born out of MLP

1:06:25

and we were , and we are looking for partners

1:06:27

with the pro tours right now and , and

1:06:30

you know we , we , you know we

1:06:32

, we were . Official rating of PPA

1:06:34

and . Ppa and MLP .

1:06:36

Congrats on that , by the way .

1:06:37

Yeah , so , so , yeah , so . So

1:06:41

I think , um , I think the

1:06:43

, the , the future

1:06:45

here for us is , I think that's more for them

1:06:47

, right , that's some for them to nurture

1:06:49

and grow . I think for us , I think it's . It's

1:06:52

you know , how can we make sure that Kendall has the best

1:06:54

experience possible when he goes to the local

1:06:56

club ? I think that's you know . We , we

1:06:58

have some great analytics and both , but we're

1:07:01

really concerned about the 34

1:07:04

million players , and actually

1:07:06

no , 34.9 million

1:07:08

players . But the 1% , the 1% of this

1:07:11

, the 1%

1:07:13

of this , um , uh , you know , at the high level , I think

1:07:15

you know there's , there's a lot of groups

1:07:17

, or the main group right

1:07:19

now PPA , mlp who are looking into

1:07:22

how to do a great job and they're going to do a great job

1:07:24

. And now people love the drama and love what's going on

1:07:26

, but you know they're really working hard to get things

1:07:28

going over there and you

1:07:30

know , I think they'll be , they're going to be very well taken care of

1:07:32

. We are , we are more for , for , for

1:07:34

us .

1:07:35

That's awesome , that's so cool . Thank

1:07:38

you , tito . This is fun . Um

1:07:40

, congrats on the raise . You know , I think

1:07:42

if people didn't catch it earlier , there

1:07:44

was eight million bucks put in from Andre

1:07:47

Agassi and some , some venture partners

1:07:49

. Um , it's

1:07:52

going to give you guys the , the

1:07:54

juice to get to that next level on

1:07:56

the product and that's exciting for me as a player

1:07:59

, um , but I'm also excited

1:08:01

for the industry . So for me , dupre

1:08:04

is one of those um kingpins

1:08:07

that's likely going to hold together the industry

1:08:10

in the future as it rapidly goes

1:08:12

through this iteration of of losers

1:08:14

and witters . Um , I

1:08:16

don't know if we're going to still be playing with Vulcan

1:08:18

balls , you know , next year , or

1:08:21

if we're going to go back to X 40s , or if

1:08:23

Selkirk is going to take the cake who knows ? But

1:08:26

, um , I know that brands

1:08:28

are always going to come and go , but

1:08:30

if you guys have infrastructure , you

1:08:32

guys will be very sticky with

1:08:34

all the club partnerships , all that stuff

1:08:36

. So , no matter where it goes , chances

1:08:39

are 10 years from now , you're still going to be a big

1:08:41

name and the Michelin star of pickleball . So

1:08:44

I appreciate your time . Hopefully we caught

1:08:46

you in the early days before you

1:08:48

know we couldn't get , we couldn't get you

1:08:50

on the show .

1:08:51

So I couldn't afford it .

1:08:53

That's right . That's right . No , no , pleasure

1:08:55

guys . It's been , it's been amazing , it's been a lot of fun

1:08:57

and you know I can uh

1:08:59

, such a such a , such a fun industry

1:09:02

in the business and sports side

1:09:04

, you know , this explosion . I don't think we get too many

1:09:06

, too many of these things happening , you know

1:09:08

, and and it's , it's , it's amazing

1:09:11

to be here and and

1:09:13

hey , I'm always here

1:09:15

to chat , so so let me know .

1:09:17

Last question , as the CEO

1:09:19

of dooper what paddle do you

1:09:21

play with at the five O level ? Yeah

1:09:24

, you know hey who pays you

1:09:26

to say this ? No do

1:09:29

you actually use ?

1:09:31

So , listen , I think

1:09:33

you know we partnered up at dooper with

1:09:35

amazing brands . You know I love all

1:09:37

of them . We're working on some things with

1:09:39

with Gamma , with Yola , with so many different

1:09:42

paddles , but I do have to say that I , my

1:09:44

favorite paddle of by far is

1:09:47

ace , ace , the ace paid

1:09:49

. I am an absolute fan

1:09:51

. I love it . I love the color , I love this lake

1:09:53

. I actually you know why I want to make it a little bit

1:09:55

of a of a reveal

1:09:57

here , like , like , like I'm signing up for a college

1:09:59

, but

1:10:04

but yeah , no , I love the ace paid . I think

1:10:06

it's better , but I'm a very tennis player

1:10:09

type pickable player , big swing

1:10:11

, big thing has power . And

1:10:13

and you know I

1:10:15

, you know I cannot get enough . I , I

1:10:17

actually have been playing with the same paddle . I

1:10:20

just get a new one every single time , for

1:10:23

the last , for the last year .

1:10:25

That's awesome . Well , thank you , Tito

1:10:27

, I appreciate it . Thank you guys .

1:10:29

Thank you Awesome .

1:10:31

Hey , if you liked today's episode of idea

1:10:33

, drop on pickleball

1:10:35

. You can find Tito

1:10:38

, our guest , online at

1:10:40

Tito . No

1:10:43

, where do we find you , tito ?

1:10:45

Tito's vodkacom . It's just , it's vodka , titocom

1:10:48

. I'll see you time Enjoy .

1:10:51

I am . I am on Instagram and

1:10:54

LinkedIn . That's it , yes .

1:10:56

What's your handle on ? What's your handle ?

1:10:58

So my Instagram is Tito Titom

1:11:01

Dot seven

1:11:03

and a little complex

1:11:06

, but that's my Instagram .

1:11:07

Perfect Titom Dot seven

1:11:10

. Thank you for spending time with us today

1:11:12

. Andre Agassi , if you

1:11:14

can hear us , I want to know

1:11:16

what paddle you're using . See

1:11:18

you guys .

1:11:19

Thank you .