0:00

Hi, it's Antonia Sirejido, the host

0:02

of Imperfect Paradise. Before we start

0:04

this episode, a quick note. This podcast

0:06

is listener supported, and right now

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we're in our fall membership drive. So head

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0:15

["Inperfect Paradise"]

0:19

You're listening to Imperfect Paradise from

0:22

Allea Studios. I'm your host, Antonia

0:24

Sirejido. This is the final

0:26

part of our four-part series, Nuri

0:28

and the Secret Tapes, an exclusive

0:30

look behind the scenes of the LACD Council

0:33

tape scandal. In the last episode,

0:35

we challenged Nuri Martinez on the

0:37

specific racist and demeaning comments she

0:40

made in the secret recording. One

0:43

of the things that did happen was this larger conversation

0:46

about how we talk about race

0:48

in our communities.

0:49

And in many ways, I think that part of it

0:52

is good, like that we try to have... I

0:54

wish I can dive more into that because

0:57

what this has caused for me is

0:59

I don't even know if I'm the right person to even have these

1:01

conversations anymore. In

1:03

this episode, we examine the ways that the LACD

1:06

Council has changed since the scandal a

1:08

year ago. We talked to LACD

1:10

Council members Yunesiz Hernandez and

1:12

Nithya Rahman about the limits of representational

1:15

politics. Time and time

1:17

again, we've seen reflections of

1:19

leaders who look like us, who are supposed

1:21

to represent us, making decisions

1:24

that totally throw our communities under the bus.

1:26

And

1:28

their vision for the future of progressive politics

1:31

in LA. That's coming up on

1:33

Imperfect Paradise from Alleah Studios.

1:48

It's been a year since the LACD Council tape

1:50

scandal, and in that time, a lot has

1:53

changed. There's an effort underway

1:55

to try to reform the redistricting process.

1:58

Nuri Martinez and Gil Cervillo gone from

2:00

the council, only Kevin de Deon

2:02

remains. And there are new city council

2:04

members who are trying to chart a new way forward

2:07

for the city, away from what they describe

2:09

as old-style identity politics,

2:11

and towards a new, progressive future.

2:14

LAist correspondent Frank Stoltz has been reporting

2:17

on all the ways the council has changed in the past

2:19

year. Hi Frank, thanks for

2:21

joining me. Hey, Antonia. So

2:24

obviously, former Council President Nuri Martinez

2:27

and Councilmember Gil Cedillo are out.

2:29

Who has replaced them, and what

2:31

are their politics? How do they differ from their predecessors?

2:34

Sure, let's take Gil Cedillo first.

2:36

So 32-year-old A. Nissi's

2:39

Hernandez replaced him, and

2:41

she was a community activist with the group

2:43

La Defensa, which fights to

2:45

reduce incarceration in LA County. Very

2:48

different resume from Cedillo, who was

2:50

a labor leader and a longtime state legislator

2:53

before getting on the council. Hernandez

2:56

is a self-described police and prison

2:58

abolitionist, who voted against

3:00

the latest city contract with the police

3:03

union, which will add about $400 million

3:05

to the LAPD's budget. Cedillo

3:07

never would have done that. He never would have voted against

3:10

that. In terms of Martinez,

3:12

35-year-old Imelda Padilla replaced

3:14

her, and she is actually a lot

3:17

like Martinez. Both were raised in the

3:19

eastern San Fernando Valley. Both

3:21

worked for a group called Pacoima Beautiful.

3:24

In fact, Martinez was Padilla's boss

3:27

there. That's interesting. Yeah, they're

3:29

even said to be friends, although Padilla

3:31

didn't talk much about that during the special election

3:33

campaign for obvious reasons. Padilla

3:36

has a lot of the same politics as

3:39

Nuri Martinez, and she's

3:41

only been on the council for a couple of months, so

3:43

we don't know much about her governing style

3:46

just yet. Right.

3:46

And what do you think it means that in

3:48

Nuri's old district, they elected someone who

3:51

is more of a moderate, similar

3:53

to Nuri in her politics?

3:54

Yeah, so there's a lot of dynamics

3:56

to any election, and this one was no

3:59

different. But I think... At the root of it was

4:01

Padilla presented herself as someone who

4:03

was more of a homegrown

4:06

candidate from the district than her opponent.

4:08

Somebody who understood the needs of this mostly working

4:11

class district. She still lives there with

4:13

her mother in the house they grew up in

4:16

and her father was a union laborer. Wow,

4:18

it's a very similar background, I feel like, to

4:20

Nuri's. And that resonated in the same

4:22

way that Nuri Martinez did with

4:24

residents. The tape scandal also

4:27

did not necessarily loom large in the election.

4:29

There was talk of increasing trust

4:31

in government during the campaign, but

4:34

not a lot of Nuri bashing.

4:36

Did the tapes propel more progressive people

4:38

onto the council? And are you seeing

4:40

them enact more progressive policies now?

4:43

Yeah, I think it propelled more anti-incumbent

4:46

candidates onto the council. In some cases

4:48

that meant more progressive candidates challenging

4:50

incumbents. But overall, yeah, the

4:53

council has become more progressive.

4:55

You saw a split vote on the big

4:57

raises for LAPD officers

5:00

that I mentioned earlier, although it passed.

5:03

But there was a split vote with three progressive

5:05

members saying no, that doesn't usually happen

5:08

on LAPD contracts. I think

5:10

Mayor Karen Bass has played a role here

5:12

in calling for a more unified

5:15

council and in focusing less on

5:18

police involvement in addressing homelessness.

5:21

So I think Mayor Karen Bass is obviously

5:23

a progressive and that's influenced the

5:25

council.

5:26

You know, I think in a lot of ways, Kevin

5:28

De Leon expressed resentment of black

5:31

political power more forcefully

5:33

than anybody else on the tapes. He said

5:36

that comment about U-Here 25

5:39

blacks and they're shouting like they're 250. And

5:42

yet he's the only one who managed to stay in

5:44

office and he's running for reelection. How

5:47

do you explain that?

5:49

Stubbornness. I think he just

5:52

wasn't going to leave and

5:54

doesn't really in the end believe he did

5:57

anything, at least seriously

5:59

enough. wrong that he should resign.

6:02

You know, he's talked a lot about how

6:04

his constituents are forgiving

6:06

him. He's done a lot of food giveaways.

6:08

He's doing a lot of, you know, events

6:11

in the community where he's in contact

6:13

with a lot of constituents. You know,

6:15

and by his account, you know, a lot of them

6:17

have expressed forgiveness. And

6:20

so he's thinking he's going to

6:22

win reelection. I actually

6:23

think this is really interesting because obviously in the podcast,

6:25

one of the things I really wanted to get into was

6:28

what were Nuri's policies. Like obviously we heard

6:30

her say these very offensive demeaning

6:32

things on the tapes, but I wanted to understand

6:35

more of like what was her worldview.

6:37

And with Kevin, we asked him for

6:39

an interview. He ultimately didn't agree

6:41

to be interviewed by us. And I'm curious, like,

6:43

how do you understand Kevin's ideology?

6:46

Like what's his platform? What does he stand for?

6:48

Well, I think he says that he's

6:51

done things like created more housing

6:53

for unhoused people than

6:56

other candidates. He has Good Row in his district. He has Good

6:58

Row in his district. He's created, I think,

7:00

a couple of tiny homes projects.

7:03

He likes to talk about his record

7:06

in the state legislature as well. And

7:08

he had a pretty progressive

7:10

record there.

7:11

At one point, people were comparing Kevin

7:14

to Bernie Sanders when he was running against

7:16

Dianne Feinstein for U.S. Senator of California.

7:18

He was once loved by progressives.

7:22

Of course, you know, that's no longer

7:24

the case. A lot of allies have left

7:26

him. But he thinks that he has

7:28

a record that the constituents will appreciate.

7:33

Let's

7:33

talk about redistricting. One of the big

7:35

things that people took away is that redistricting

7:38

the way it was talked about on the tapes was this very like racialized,

7:41

zero-sum sort of process.

7:44

Are there any plans to reform redistricting? How is

7:46

the council looking forward on the issue of redistricting?

7:49

In the months after the tapes were released,

7:52

the council president, the new one,

7:54

Paul Krekorian, created an ad

7:57

hoc committee on governance reform.

8:00

And the idea is to create an independent

8:02

redistricting commission that would

8:04

draw council district boundaries

8:07

every 10 years based on the census.

8:10

And so it would take it out of the hands

8:13

of the city council. And that's what this whole meeting

8:15

was all about. This meeting that we

8:17

heard on the tapes was about redistricting

8:20

and drawing the lines in a way that would

8:23

help these folks maintain their own political

8:25

power.

8:26

I was so confused because there is an independent

8:28

redistricting commission. And I'm like, okay, so then what is

8:30

the deal here? And the answer is

8:32

that it actually isn't independent

8:35

because the council itself has to vote on the map.

8:38

So I think that's what the big difference is, right? So there was a commission

8:40

that was coming up with a map that was supposed to be independent.

8:43

And then the council would approve or disapprove it. So

8:45

it really wasn't fully independent because

8:47

no matter what, the council was going to weigh in on whether

8:50

they said yes

8:50

or no to the map, right? Yeah. And

8:53

this group didn't like the map that was being presented

8:55

by the so-called independent redistricting

8:57

commission. Right, so-called

8:58

because they eventually would have to vote

9:00

on it. Right. And the commission

9:02

is appointed by members of the council anyway.

9:04

Right. So how independent could it be if the members

9:07

themselves are like, I want this person to fight

9:09

for me in these meetings? Yeah. And

9:12

so the council is looking at having

9:14

a process where the city clerk

9:16

and the ethics commission pick a

9:19

commission that's independent that

9:21

operates totally separate from

9:23

the city council

9:26

and decides on what the boundaries

9:29

should be based on the stuff that it should

9:31

be based on, which is population size,

9:35

racial equity, et cetera.

9:37

What about this idea of expanding the city

9:39

council, including

9:40

more council members than just 15? And

9:42

this is easier to understand, right? Expanding

9:45

the number of council members. And

9:47

there are 15 council members. You

9:50

have 51 in New York. You have 50 in Chicago.

9:53

A lot of big cities have a much bigger city

9:55

council because it's a smaller city

9:57

council here. Each council member is

10:00

much more powerful than those council people.

10:02

But the idea of expanding it would be that

10:05

people would be representing fewer people

10:08

and therefore more responsive to their constituents.

10:11

And yeah, there have been proposals

10:14

for as many as 31, which

10:16

would more than double the size, obviously. That would

10:18

be a big change, yeah. A group of academics

10:20

have come up with a proposal to expand

10:23

it to 25 with four at-large

10:26

members. And so

10:29

that would be a big change. So that's

10:31

the other big reform that's being considered

10:34

by the city council. And of course, both of those

10:36

reforms would have to go before voters and

10:38

likely in November of 2024.

10:41

And voters have been asked in the past whether

10:43

they would want to expand the city council

10:45

and they voted no. Do you think it will be different

10:47

now? Yeah, I mean the argument is we

10:49

don't need more politicians. These

10:52

pesky politicians are the last

10:54

thing we need more of. So yeah, it's

10:56

failed in the past. There's a lot to be

10:58

worked out.

11:00

Can you talk about any other changes on the council that

11:02

have resulted from the tape scandal? Well,

11:04

so

11:04

the third item that's kind

11:06

of moved to the front burner in

11:08

addition to independent redistricting and

11:11

expansion of the council is ethics

11:13

reform. And that has to do with creating

11:16

a more independent ethics commission and

11:18

also to tighten up things

11:21

like lobbying rules. And this

11:23

has as much to do with the fact that

11:25

we've had the slew of council members

11:28

accused of corruption, three of them already

11:30

convicted of corruption, two more

11:33

who have been accused and are now

11:35

defending themselves. And so

11:38

if you tighten up these ethics rules around

11:40

lobbyists and developers and campaign contributions,

11:43

then you might be able to avoid that kind

11:45

of corruption.

11:47

Probably one

11:48

of the juiciest, most

11:50

thorny questions to get into, which

11:53

is

11:53

who leaked the tapes and why? Who leaked

11:55

the tapes and why? We

11:59

don't know. the who for sure.

12:02

But LA Magazine has reported quoting unnamed

12:04

sources that a union bookkeeper bugged

12:08

the office of the then head of the

12:10

LA County Federation of Labor, Ron Herrera,

12:13

because he thought Herrera was talking

12:16

bad about him to his wife,

12:19

who is Herrera's secretary, even

12:21

urging her to leave him.

12:24

Yeah. Did you follow that? Yeah. Should I say it again?

12:26

Okay. So it sounds like Ron Herrera,

12:29

who is the president of the LA County Federation,

12:31

had an executive assistant who was

12:34

married to another employee at the Fed. And that

12:36

employee, her husband, was bugging

12:39

Ron Herrera and trying to

12:42

get information about him that may or may not be

12:44

also pertained to his wife. Right.

12:47

The Federation has not commented. The

12:49

LAPD, which is investigating the

12:51

allegedly illegal recording, has not

12:54

commented either. But there's a twist

12:57

to all of this. Council member Kevin

12:59

De Leon and former council member

13:02

Gil Cedillo have sued

13:04

the union bookkeeper and his wife, alleging

13:07

invasion of privacy, negligence,

13:09

and the release of the tapes did permanent

13:12

harm to their reputations. That's their allegation.

13:15

Cedillo also names the Federation, which

13:17

declined to comment on the lawsuit. We've

13:19

been unable to reach the bookkeeper and his

13:21

wife yet. The lawsuits claim

13:24

that both of them, De Leon and

13:26

Cedillo, actually never made

13:28

a comment that was in the words of the lawsuits,

13:31

even remotely offensive. And remember, De Leon

13:34

has on other occasions apologized

13:37

for his comments. And it's true, Cedillo

13:40

was mostly silent in the conversation, but

13:42

nonetheless was a participant. I just think we have

13:44

to point that out, right? The lawsuit also

13:47

calls the whole thing a classic October

13:50

surprise. The tape was released

13:52

in early October, a month before the November

13:54

election. It's a little unclear why they call it an

13:56

October surprise since Cedillo already

13:59

had launched in the primary and De Leon had

14:01

already lost his bid for mayor in the primary.

14:04

But they hope to win damages from the Federation

14:06

and the bookkeeper and his wife who actually

14:09

no longer work at the Federation.

14:11

What do you think the legacy of this scandal is?

14:14

Well three, maybe four

14:16

people lost their careers. Former

14:18

Council President Nuri Martinez, former Council

14:21

Member Gil Cedillo, who says it's

14:23

been hard to get consulting work in the wake of all

14:25

this and the ex president of the LA County Federation

14:27

of Labor Ron Herrera. We'll

14:29

see what happens with De Leon who's

14:32

as we mentioned running for reelection.

14:34

He believes his constituents will have forgiven

14:37

him and so maybe he will live on.

14:39

Another takeaway is be careful what

14:42

you say in private meetings, right?

14:45

Well we're actually about to hear from a council

14:47

member who expresses that that

14:48

was one of her takeaways. Absolutely, I

14:50

believe it. But seriously the

14:52

scandal reminded us that while race

14:55

relations are pretty good given how diverse

14:57

the city is, there remains this level

14:59

of racial tension. Here was a group

15:01

of four powerful Latino leaders secretly

15:04

lamenting how black people who make

15:06

up 8% of the population hold three

15:08

of 15 council seats and

15:10

Latinos who make up half the city hold just

15:12

four council seats. And you

15:14

know we've talked about this a lot it makes sense

15:17

tensions rise during the redrawing

15:19

of council district boundaries and

15:21

this is really why it is so important to create

15:23

structures like an independent redistricting

15:26

commission to take the backroom

15:27

dealing out of the process. No

15:38

charges related to the secret recordings

15:40

have been filed and the Los Angeles Police Department

15:43

is continuing its investigation. After

15:46

a

15:46

break we hear from two of those progressive

15:49

leaning LACB council members about their

15:51

vision for the city. Like a lot

15:53

of my donors for example are

15:55

people who had never donated to political

15:57

campaigns

15:57

before. I was their first political donation.

16:00

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17:18

Welcome back to Imperfect Paradise. I'm

17:20

Antonia Sorejito. The progressive

17:23

shifts on the city council were already

17:25

starting to happen before the tape leaks scandal.

17:28

In 2020, Nithya Rahman, a Democratic socialist,

17:31

won a seat on the city council defeating a more

17:33

moderate incumbent.

17:35

I was definitely somebody who came

17:37

in from a new political consciousness

17:40

that I think is rising in Los

17:43

Angeles from a new generation. And

17:45

I'm not even necessarily talking about age when I

17:47

talk about that, but just a new generation of activated

17:50

people who want to engage

17:52

in local politics. And

17:54

those were the people who got involved with my race. Like a lot

17:56

of my donors, for example, were

17:58

people who had never done that.

17:59

I was their first political donation. People

18:02

who volunteered for my campaign had never

18:04

volunteered for any other politician before. And

18:09

these were just people who were activated post-Trump

18:12

and post-2016 and really wanted to get involved and

18:16

felt helpless in California because

18:18

we were definitely going to vote Democrat anyway and

18:21

thought to themselves, how can I do something

18:23

here now that makes me feel like I'm taking

18:26

action on the issues that I care about and

18:28

found an outlet.

18:30

Nithya and Nuri Martinez served on the council

18:32

together for nearly two years. I

18:35

asked Nithya how her policies compared

18:37

to Nuri's. I know that's a huge

18:39

question, but...

18:41

Yeah, that is a huge question. It's

18:43

like broadest stroke. Where were the differences? There

18:46

were a lot of areas where we overlapped

18:48

significantly. But there are issues

18:50

on which, the ways in which

18:54

I think about how the city uses its powers

18:56

are really, really different from the way

18:58

that Nuri thought the city should be using its

19:00

power. One of the starkest

19:03

differences was on the issue of homelessness.

19:07

Nuri supported a policy that would make it

19:09

illegal to camp within 500 feet of daycares, schools

19:11

and parks. Nithya

19:14

voted against it. Ban

19:16

camping all you want. Ban homelessness

19:18

all you want. But unless you address the fact

19:21

that these people don't have homes, they are still going

19:23

to be on our city streets. And so I was like, why are

19:25

we wasting our time talking about

19:27

expanding these restrictions on camping

19:30

when we haven't talked about the

19:32

most important thing, which is how are we going to find

19:34

these beds and how are we going to find them

19:36

tomorrow?

19:38

We've talked to some folks who are close to Nuri

19:40

who sort of hypothesized

19:42

or told us that they think that she felt

19:44

like she was a progressive, she hasn't

19:47

changed her ideology, but actually the left

19:49

in Los Angeles has moved away from

19:51

her position. So it's not that she's

19:52

changed, but the world around her has changed.

19:55

What do you think about that?

19:57

Part of what's exciting

19:57

about for me, about being here,

19:59

in this role right now is that

20:03

not all the questions about what it

20:05

means to be progressive

20:08

at the city level have been answered. There

20:11

are a lot of people who think of themselves as progressives who

20:13

have literally the opposite views from each

20:15

other on whether you should have more

20:18

apartment buildings being built in Los Angeles

20:20

or not. And some of the people

20:22

who would describe themselves as, you know,

20:25

very, very left leaning, even calling

20:28

themselves socialists, would feel

20:30

very differently that you shouldn't be building new housing,

20:32

that all you should be doing is protecting people

20:34

in their current housing and blocking

20:37

all new buildings from coming into neighborhoods because

20:39

it leads to gentrification and it kicks people out

20:41

of their neighbor, you know. And so the idea that

20:44

somebody is progressive and that the

20:47

meaning of progressivism changed around

20:49

them, we haven't figured it all out

20:51

yet. Those are still open questions.

20:54

Do you think that this incident has shaped

20:57

the way you think about politics? The

21:00

tapes themselves? Yeah, and just how everything

21:02

sort of unfolded. There was like

21:04

a lesson to be learned.

21:07

Always watch

21:09

what you're saying. Really?

21:12

Have people become more paranoid since it? No, I don't

21:14

know. I think for sure I have

21:16

definitely

21:18

taken more care in my private

21:21

individual conversations that I'm having with other people.

21:24

Not because I think I'm going to be taped, but

21:26

just because I think I have a recognition

21:29

of what it means to have

21:31

private conversations, go

21:33

back to other people, and

21:36

saw the pain

21:37

that that wrought

21:39

on the city. And I'm just a little bit more

21:42

cautious about it.

21:44

I thought Nifia's lesson learned was going to be something

21:46

about policy, but really for her it

21:48

was a personal lesson about how to behave

21:51

as an elected official and the complex

21:53

relationship between politicians and their constituents.

21:56

I see our role in counsel overall, particularly

21:58

during a time when we're talking about the time like this, where

22:01

the city is struggling so much,

22:04

and where we have these issues that

22:06

are at the forefront of people's minds in

22:09

LA that give rise

22:11

to so much frustration and anger. And we

22:14

get all that anger here in this council

22:17

office, we get it in emails, we get it in phone calls.

22:19

I see my role as just trying

22:21

to solve the problems,

22:24

but also to generate

22:27

patience to generate faith in government, to

22:29

deescalate that anger, and

22:32

to bring people into our shared

22:34

process of trying to address these issues

22:37

as opposed to living in conflict

22:39

with the public. Like I don't want to be in that situation

22:42

anymore.

22:42

How do you feel that negativity has

22:44

impacted you, or could impact

22:46

a city council member?

22:48

We're yelled at. We get

22:50

terrible emails sent to us. Our

22:53

staff has yelled at. There's so much

22:55

negativity and frustration that comes our way.

22:57

And I feel for people when they're reaching out

22:59

to us, I'm frustrated too.

23:02

Like that's why I ran for this office. Like I

23:04

wasn't a politician before. Like I share

23:07

their frustration. I share their impatience

23:09

for change in Los Angeles. But if

23:12

you are like me and you are a person

23:14

who came into this work with

23:16

a lot of empathy and openheartedness,

23:20

being in this particular role can leave

23:22

you very, very wounded. And

23:25

so I think to protect yourself, sometimes

23:28

you have to build some calluses and

23:30

move forward. I haven't done

23:32

a very good job of that so far. And you

23:35

know, I cry a lot. You

23:37

know, you have to find a way to be stronger through

23:39

this for sure. To find

23:41

a way to like move through this without

23:43

letting that anger cripple you or prevent

23:46

you from being able to move through your

23:48

day or be loving to your kids

23:51

or to your partner. It's

23:54

very tough. It's very tough.

23:57

It's very real.

24:03

When we come back, we'll talk to someone with

24:05

a very different vision from Nury of

24:08

what the future of Latino politics looks

24:10

like in L.A. Because

24:12

time and time again, we've seen reflections

24:15

of leaders who look like us,

24:17

who are supposed to represent us, making

24:19

decisions that totally throw our communities under

24:22

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Thanks so much.

26:27

You're listening to Imperfect Paradise, Nuri

26:29

and the Secret Tapes. I'm Antonia Cerejiza.

26:32

At the time the Secret Tapes were recorded, in the

26:34

fall of 2021, Eunice Hernandez

26:37

was challenging Gil Cedillo for his seat

26:39

on the LA City Council. And on the

26:41

tapes they mention Eunice, although they can't

26:43

pronounce or remember her name. This

26:46

is union leader Ron Herrera, followed by

26:48

council members Kevin De Leon and Nuri Martinez.

26:59

She's not running on her own, Ron says.

27:01

At the time, Eunice was backed by several

27:03

progressive groups. The Democratic Socialists

27:06

of America endorsed her. Nuri calls

27:08

her a kid.

27:20

The comments that they made about you specifically,

27:23

like they, you know, acknowledge that you're like a Latina

27:25

candidate, but they were somewhat dismissive. They're like, we

27:27

don't know her, basically. How did that make you feel?

27:30

And did you have that feeling before you

27:32

heard the tape? Did it surprise you?

27:34

Did it confirm anything for you?

27:36

I mean, they were not people

27:38

that I prioritized having in my life, so I

27:41

didn't have a relationship with many of them, even

27:43

though one of them was the representative

27:45

of a district that I've lived in my entire life, and

27:48

that I eventually was running against, right, at the time.

27:50

And so it doesn't surprise me. They

27:53

don't know me, and they were not people that I was trying

27:55

to build with. I was in community, building coalitions,

27:58

building tables, building places... where

28:00

people can get together to build their power to

28:02

advocate, to convince different levels of bureaucracy.

28:04

That's where I was at. And so I

28:07

wasn't surprised. I wasn't hurt

28:09

by it. Again, it was more like, yeah,

28:11

you didn't know me, so you didn't know what the power is

28:14

that we had behind us.

28:15

After the secretly recorded conversation

28:17

took place, Municis went

28:19

on to defeat Gill in the primary and then

28:21

win the general election. She took

28:23

office in December of 2022, and she defines

28:26

herself as very different from Gill,

28:28

Nuri, and Cuban.

28:30

I grew up in Highland Park. I've lived there my whole life.

28:33

My dad does terrazzo work, like kind

28:35

of like the flooring that you see in the Hollywood Boulevard, that

28:38

kind of flooring. And then my mom works at the LA

28:40

Convention Center.

28:42

When Municis was growing up, she experienced

28:44

personally a lot of the issues that are

28:46

now dividing the city council and the Democratic

28:49

Party. I've had a lot of friends criminalized,

28:51

had problematic substance

28:52

use, now experiencing homelessness were evicted

28:54

from their homes there. I graduated in

28:56

the 2008 recession. During

28:58

the recession, we had to rent rooms in our home to be

29:00

able to pay the mortgage that brought in intimate

29:03

partner violence. And we called

29:05

law enforcement for help, 911, and they didn't even

29:07

get out of their cars in that moment. And

29:09

so those different experiences are really what drove

29:11

me to say, oh, maybe I could be the police officer

29:14

that would have helped me in that moment.

29:16

Municis studied criminal justice in college,

29:19

and that's when she started thinking more critically

29:21

about the justice system.

29:22

I learned that there's definition, vocabulary,

29:25

data

29:25

to these types of situations,

29:27

that they were systemic, that they were

29:30

just happening in my friends and my neighborhood and my loved ones. Like

29:32

this was everywhere. And I would not be able to

29:34

change

29:35

by myself. I wouldn't be able to change the system from inside.

29:37

So she gave up on the idea of being a police

29:40

officer and became a criminal justice

29:42

reform advocate.

29:43

I've done work in trying to stop jail expansion

29:45

at the LA County level, working with

29:47

them to advance alternatives to incarceration,

29:50

alternate crisis response, because it's

29:53

those things that prevent our loved ones from getting

29:55

sucked into this system of emergency room,

29:58

homelessness, jails. and not

30:00

in the cycle. So that's

30:02

kind of my trajectory. And I decided

30:04

to try to fight.

30:07

—Unicis decided to run for City Council

30:09

during the pandemic because she felt like the Council

30:11

was not proposing radical enough solutions

30:14

to big systemic problems. And

30:16

they weren't looking out for the most marginalized.

30:19

—We talk about, you know, the stories of underdogs, right?

30:22

I'm for the underdog that's under the underdog

30:25

that's under the underdog. That's

30:27

who I'm fighting for, because it's those communities who have been

30:29

most left behind. It's those communities,

30:32

like Black trans women, who are at the end

30:34

of a lot of horrible policies. You

30:37

look at all the different systems, and it's them

30:39

who are the most impacted. So for

30:41

me, it's who are the people who have most been

30:43

left behind, who have been forgotten, who

30:45

have been erased. And so my ideology

30:48

is like fighting for the most vulnerable

30:50

communities without throwing

30:52

any other communities under the bus.

30:55

—Unicis is in her early 30s, and

30:57

by the time she got involved in politics, the

30:59

era of firsts for Latinos in California

31:02

politics was over. There was a

31:04

Latino U.S. Senator, a Latina City

31:06

Council president. There'd been a Latino mayor

31:08

and speaker of the California State Senate. Unicis

31:11

felt less concerned about simply getting

31:13

more Latinos into elected office. Do

31:16

you think that people of a certain

31:18

community better represent people from that community?

31:21

Like, do Latinos better represent Latinos?

31:24

Or would

31:25

a Black City Council member better represent a

31:27

Black community?

31:31

—I think identity politics in that way can constrain

31:33

us from meeting the needs of our district and the people who

31:35

live there. And so I think

31:38

there can, yes, be a lot of benefits, but also

31:41

it's like, does your representative meet

31:43

your needs? Do they meet your values

31:45

of that district? Because

31:48

time and time again, we've seen reflections

31:50

of leaders who look like us, who

31:53

are supposed to represent us, making

31:55

decisions that totally throw our communities under

31:57

the bus.

31:59

—At least Papi and I are.

31:59

population is just under 50%

32:02

Latino. But when Nuri Martinez was on

32:04

the city council, the council was barely

32:06

over a quarter Latino. This was a big

32:08

concern for Nuri and the others on the secret tapes.

32:11

I asked Unisys if she felt the same way.

32:14

I think it's some immature analysis. Like

32:16

we talk about representation, but I

32:18

would love to see trans people, gender

32:21

nonconforming

32:21

people on the council. We

32:24

need more experiences, people who

32:26

share our values. That's what is important.

32:28

Like,

32:28

does the person that you're voting for care

32:31

about the same things

32:31

you do?

32:32

And if they do not, then

32:35

why would you vote for them? So

32:37

I think voters in our communities need

32:39

to think about this a little bit deeper when they

32:41

vote for someone that not just that it looks like them

32:44

and that we talk like them, but

32:46

that we actually want to help them and value

32:48

them.

32:50

Did you see Nuri as an inspiration

32:52

prior to the tapes being released?

32:55

The times that I found most challenging to watch the

32:58

city council meetings was

33:00

oftentimes when she would say things that

33:02

I'd landed hurtful on me around our immigrant

33:04

communities or people impacted

33:06

by the criminal justice system or

33:08

saying some folks were hardworking and others were not

33:10

like that's a lens that decodomizes

33:13

and makes one group deserving while it makes

33:15

another group undeserving. This criminal

33:17

justice system is very racist and

33:19

it impacts everybody. Hardworking, not everybody,

33:22

doesn't matter. And I think her

33:24

ideology is reflective of like, we

33:27

need to fight for the hardworking folks. And

33:29

I'm with you on that. But that doesn't mean that

33:31

we can't fight for everybody else too.

33:34

Do you think that she can come back to public

33:36

service ever?

33:37

I believe that we shouldn't throw people away. And

33:39

I believe if there is appropriate accountability and

33:42

a recognition of that harm right to whoever

33:45

needs to be a part of that, I think she should

33:47

be able to come back so that there could be

33:49

learning from this. Nuri was the only

33:51

one that took accountability.

33:53

You feel like the others haven't?

33:55

Not an ounce of it. And

33:57

that's disappointing too because, you know,

33:59

I feel like

33:59

especially Latina women, especially the older

34:02

Latina daughters, we're always at the forefront

34:04

of having to take care of everything. I don't know

34:06

where Neri stands in her line of siblings, but

34:10

I feel like another moment of a

34:12

woman Latina having to step up and clean up a

34:14

mess. That's how it's all about, too. Yeah.

34:17

And it's like, you can't say that it

34:19

was them and not me, and just put your

34:21

hands up. If you

34:23

were sitting at that table and you didn't

34:25

say anything, you participated,

34:28

you participated. I think accountability, it's

34:30

one of the things that's most irked me about it, that

34:33

obviously, the president of the Labor Federation

34:35

had the own accountability process, but

34:37

here in the political space, she

34:39

was the only one that

34:41

stepped up. So that's annoying.

34:43

A reminder here that Kevin declined to talk to us

34:46

for the story, as did Ron Herrera and

34:48

Gil Cedillo.

34:54

Council Member Hernandez, thank you so much

34:55

for joining me. Thank you so much for having

34:57

me. I really appreciate y'all.

35:09

When I started my career 10 years ago

35:11

at NPR's Latino USA, President

35:13

Obama was in office. And

35:15

there was a popular idea at the time that if

35:18

only more people from marginalized communities

35:20

were in positions of power, we'd have a more equitable

35:23

and just society. And

35:25

since then, I've seen a turn in how people think

35:27

about this issue, because what we've seen is

35:29

that marginalized communities are just as capable

35:32

as any other community of using their

35:34

power to discriminate against others. The

35:37

big lesson for me in Nuri's story and

35:39

the story of these tapes is that

35:42

as Latinos become a more powerful

35:44

voice in our politics here in the U.S.,

35:47

we have to think beyond representation and think

35:49

about what our values really are and

35:51

how we want to use our power.

35:55

Thank you.

36:08

Next week on Imperfect Paradise, People

36:10

vs. Karen, the story of one woman's

36:12

quest to hold the person who falsely accused

36:14

her of a crime accountable.

36:17

I think Katie thought that

36:19

she could just pick on somebody

36:22

or make

36:22

up a story about people because

36:24

she didn't like what they look like. Am

36:27

I shocked? No. Will

36:29

we stand for it?

36:31

Hell no. So,

36:33

today I stand in front

36:34

of everybody in a fight to

36:37

prosecute Katie.

36:39

I definitely felt the

36:42

heebie-jeebies. I didn't feel good, but I thought

36:44

I was judging a book by its cover. As

36:47

a mom, I just think I

36:48

felt, initially I felt that fear

36:50

of like, you know, how do

36:53

I keep my kids safe? And

36:55

the first question was, why this doesn't sound

36:57

right.

36:59

It just didn't seem real.

37:01

That's coming up on Imperfect Paradise.

37:04

Listen to new episodes of the podcast every

37:06

Wednesday or tune in on Sunday nights at 7

37:09

p.m. on LAS 89.3 or LAS.com.

37:15

This episode of Imperfect Paradise was

37:17

written and reported by me, Antonia Sidiqi.

37:20

Katherine Mailhouse is the executive producer

37:22

of the show and Shana Naomi Crockmull

37:25

is our vice president of podcast. Emily

37:27

Yarin is the senior producer. Our story

37:29

editor is Meg Kramer. Minju

37:32

Park is our producer. She also scored

37:34

our series. James Campbell is

37:36

our production coordinator. Ali Bianco

37:38

and Rebecca Kass are our interns. Our

37:41

editorial team also includes Tony Marcano,

37:43

Frank Stoltz, Megan Garvey, and Caitlin

37:46

Muller. Backtracking by Caitlin

37:48

Antonios.

37:49

Mixing and theme music

37:50

by East Scott Kelly.

37:52

Music by Jay Valle, Xmanana,

37:54

and Joseph Quinones at Secondhand Sounds.

37:57

This podcast is powered by listeners like

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you.

37:59

Support the show by donating now at laist.com.

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