0:00

I'm julie up asking join me as

0:02

I talk with Npr is Sarah Mccammon

0:05

about her new book, The Expand Gela

0:07

Goals Loving Living and Leaving the White

0:09

Evangelical Church. That's April twenty fifth that

0:11

the Crawford Tickets at las.com/events. Hey

0:18

I'm and then Anthony he the

0:20

and this is Imperfect Paradise from

0:23

L A or Studios the show

0:25

about He Didn't Worlds and messy

0:27

realities. We're listening to a special

0:30

breed drop of Imperfect Paradise, the

0:32

forgotten revolutionary from our second season.

0:34

For the last seven episodes, Las

0:37

Correspondent a local news man lobbyists

0:39

has been exploring every possible theory

0:41

about Oscars death. Rome

0:43

has died of massive head wounds but

0:45

his family doesn't believe he got them

0:48

from falling off a cliff and an

0:50

old killed them. Local bars. Was buddies

0:52

from As. I think of

0:54

turned a corner. In

0:57

terms of the everyday people been

0:59

saying to us about Oscar being

1:01

murdered this episode I don't fault

1:04

finally finds a person who was

1:06

with Oscar the night he died,

1:08

present his findings to Oscars best

1:11

friend and grapples with the ending

1:13

of the investigation. Years Las correspondent

1:16

as all for was my of.

1:25

For. The better part of a year I've

1:27

been searching for anyone who saw Oscar Gomez

1:29

the Navy died. In. An

1:31

earlier episode we found a list of names

1:33

that a briefcase names of people who are

1:36

in the apartment where Oscar was staying in

1:38

Santa Barbara. And we've been writing,

1:40

emailing, reaching out in any way we could

1:42

think of. And. I did find

1:44

someone who say Gonzales when a new

1:46

well where does six roommates. For.

1:48

Jose told me he was not with

1:51

the other roommates and Oscar on November

1:53

sixteenth. Nineteen Ninety Four. I

1:56

didn't similar comment on I. I

1:58

know they were operating. After

2:02

everything I learned last episode

2:04

about the Bluffs in Oscars

2:06

injuries. I thought the investigative

2:08

part of this journey was over. But.

2:12

Then. One. Of the many

2:14

emails we sat down, Team

2:16

Act said my apologies for

2:19

the late response. Daddy's me.

2:23

We. Made contact with another room,

2:26

Apartment were asked spent some of

2:28

his last hours allies. And

2:31

he remembered us. Dollars

2:39

for the air. It's also was

2:42

my lobbyists. Was

2:44

about of have a. Severe

2:46

to for the shade or tots can

2:48

be like he knows me like we're

2:51

catching up on like Jose Gonzalez who

2:53

struggled to remember the events leading up

2:55

Taskers death for Severe. it's like November

2:57

sixteenth. Ninety Ninety Four happened last weekend.

3:00

He tells me said he remembers the March

3:03

at U C Santa Barbara Oscars last Stay

3:05

Alive. He. Remembers his roommate

3:07

noise, where's that nickname many. Bringing.

3:10

Oscar over afterwards. And

3:12

he remembers something going down at

3:15

the apartment. Ah

3:17

fire the boy that com a

3:19

good situation and. Gonna

3:21

lie to ya me out again all

3:23

fucked up and said total situation at

3:26

our on it. Had been

3:28

working so hard to get these details

3:30

and now. I can't believe how

3:32

candid he's been with me. What?

3:34

Happened so quick to know somebody set

3:36

up is still. An

3:39

adult the can I ask for added

3:41

issue. Kiki. Is

3:43

and recommend Doses nickname. He

3:45

was another roommate. What? Was the issue for

3:48

those I awoke to kill with all the hard work. Five

3:51

get you know somebody around I what began

3:53

the gas mask and they went to the

3:55

back of a book and apartments and they

3:58

got what you saw them fighting. Now.

4:01

I would actually or side. I mean I'd I'd

4:03

heard about this stuff like the way it was

4:05

quick and fast. Second, this. Is

4:08

a way to violate. this side says you

4:10

can discuss it but all of the room

4:12

it's or their own fucking mad his pocket

4:14

finally quit cause your back did you hear

4:17

like tears flowing or or. Not

4:19

or not at on. That

4:21

even worse off we are not as bad

4:24

guy you know it was I just regular

4:26

com a bunch of punchy oscar once you

4:28

have to buy shit. Then

4:30

name he came in. Many

4:33

of joaquin and speak to were asked about

4:35

the whole situation. I guess the com on

4:37

the whole situation to look awesome in front

4:39

of all time. The good though the park

4:41

and of apartments. This may be

4:43

the park we've heard of. a grassy pads

4:46

on top of the bless the locals code

4:48

dogs you part. A. Put him

4:50

on the sound of gunshots and front of a far

4:52

cry. Don't

4:54

like that lifeless. Soul.

4:58

Nationality sat on their as. Signal:

5:01

Remember: have you have your you remember

5:03

seeing this. See. Seen many

5:05

put off going to to add support.

5:08

For. Wow, that's really the lower level. be

5:11

as picture window in a bar. That happens.

5:13

And. Then and then nanny love them on his

5:15

own and nobody nobody tested I because he was

5:18

actually the street I like it was you wasn't

5:20

that far away. And I mean as I. Maybe.

5:23

Ten fifteen feet away. With.

5:25

It since they're a support.

5:28

Do. You remember. There's. No

5:31

sense whatsoever. That's. Been There

5:33

was no sense. Ah so no,

5:35

no, no sense at all. that point

5:37

is I say that purple Zelda, but

5:39

it was a clear and you better

5:41

be careful. Analysis

5:44

I didn't know when they will see how you doing.

5:46

And. Use. That. Walked off. A

5:49

foster cel Than it's possible. it happens like

5:52

they are in the park. And

5:54

whether the soon status reports suggest is

5:56

more likely than asking what about half

5:58

a mile away to. Queen and

6:00

fell from a bless their. Get.

6:03

Locked up so we were lucky from.

6:06

Who. Did. All of us,

6:09

Who who all and you. I'm

6:11

I see all the rumored i mean an

6:13

an average about for a walk and but

6:15

down the street btc would be doing where.

6:17

he added that the we could find on

6:19

that side of publicity that will farrow casual

6:21

walk in, up and down. Well.

6:24

Hearing. Obvious story. It

6:27

sounds like the roommates be can genuinely

6:29

worried when they realized how school was

6:31

missing. So. So. This.

6:33

Is what I'm thinking. have your

6:36

on in and I've been. I've

6:38

been you know, can talk and

6:40

people since September of last year

6:42

about this podcast. So so that

6:44

was the first time I'm hearing

6:46

from someone who actually saw asked

6:48

her that night in the apartment.

6:50

And the way you're describing

6:53

what the roommates did. After

6:55

a foster. Last.

6:57

Was like am I hearing you say

6:59

the you got you All were concerned

7:01

Now Joy to concerned about. You

7:04

not personal situation adviser move and drinking,

7:06

smoking ban and whatsoever. But.

7:09

It's a Dk. Was out there looking for him.

7:11

It seems like a very good kind of like.

7:14

You know, set aside, whatever. You

7:16

know it was clouded over. give Iran or he

7:19

understood are you know the desert and if is

7:21

a smart guy though the others for ya. Things.

7:24

Out the for for. That situation. Where are

7:26

you know what it is? Whether they're the

7:28

are. Graduates:

7:30

Lambert. By. The way

7:32

we tried reaching out to american endorser

7:35

but we never got response. Have

7:37

you says he remembers the roommates in

7:39

the apartment being rounded up by the

7:41

sheriff's office? No. Criminal charges

7:43

were filed. Some. People

7:46

believe that the roommates like him

7:48

Greek and might have been responsible

7:50

for killing us are at all.

7:52

I could say that now sad

7:54

sad that of the Superbowl said.

7:57

Some. People still believe that asked the was.

8:00

Murder. Aggravated.

8:03

Even a dad says i want to give you a method

8:06

that. Did. He

8:08

thought he does. A thought are

8:10

leave on. We apologize to give our condolences

8:12

and so forth. Up

8:15

here is returning memories from almost

8:17

three decades ago. And his

8:20

story seats with what I've learned during the

8:22

semester. guess. He

8:25

sits with Jose. Story is

8:27

this with the pathologist assessment

8:29

of mosque as injuries have

8:31

likely accidental benefits with the

8:33

pattern of blood related deaths

8:35

and I'm a visitor. It

8:37

sits with a version of

8:39

events in which Oscar under

8:41

the influence, upset after a

8:44

fight alone and disoriented in

8:46

the darkness had a terrible.

8:48

Fatal. Accident. Everything

8:51

I've learned points to this version

8:53

of the story. I

8:56

want to make one must try it.

8:59

Getting the Santa Barbara Sheriff's version of

9:01

Events and someone who had promised us

9:03

potential information early in our investigation. Of.

9:17

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new favorite place to charge. Retell.

11:44

So are you. I'm getting real.

11:47

Natalie. And I get on a Zoom

11:49

call which retails it. Public Information Officer

11:52

for the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office. When

11:57

we started looking into for screw story.

12:00

Dollars You'd consider releasing the investigative

12:02

report on Oscars death. If

12:04

we shared some of our reporting wizards.

12:07

Is what she told us. Fact that. His

12:11

sister. Fifty pages and so you can get

12:13

through some of your interview that we can

12:16

head of have a discussion. Is the case

12:18

historic and weren't? I'm not that or is

12:20

there think things are coming up with that

12:22

people are telling you? does he want to

12:24

look into it? So

12:27

we're here to close the loop for make

12:29

one final triumph for the investigative report. We

12:31

want to get as much information as possible

12:34

before we present our findings to those who

12:36

were close to Oscars. Raquel,

12:38

Keeps or Camera off. So I'm looking at the

12:40

black square with her name on it has I

12:43

make my pets. For. Your monitor setup

12:45

your offer to the bachelor after we

12:47

don't you know the of the reporting

12:49

we needed to do so odd from

12:51

can I do that tonight to Can

12:54

do some of the highlights of what

12:56

we were with them. Yeah.

12:59

We. Talked to a

13:01

retired of. Forensic.

13:03

Pathologists faster. About.

13:07

I'm from the injuries that the ban

13:09

and suspect such as. No.

13:12

Broken. Bones in

13:14

other parts of the body. Is

13:16

to forgive her kill. An overview of

13:19

what we sound. So. Yeah, so

13:21

this room he said that he is annoying put

13:23

us on a chair out there to chill out.

13:26

And will come back in and. And.

13:28

Then. You know they looked and he's gone.

13:31

Itself is you ran almost every

13:33

theory he knows to assassins. It's

13:37

taken a while. One. Of

13:39

the things we found is that. So.

13:42

Few of the family and friends have a.

13:45

A. Basic knowledge of of

13:47

the serves investigation. And

13:50

their absence of

13:52

facts. As

13:54

cause a lot of team and lot

13:56

of people so when he important things

13:59

will be too. Look. At

14:01

the name narratives in that criminal

14:03

investigation. And. Will.

14:06

Summarize him and present them and podcast.

14:09

So. I'm. Yeah.

14:11

Can you really sets was. A

14:13

criminal one is not subject to public really. Well.

14:18

That. That that sit stay law does

14:20

not prohibit. The release

14:22

of the started with stay law says

14:24

that an agency. And

14:27

inside. Whether.

14:29

Or not and when we sat down with you.

14:31

You said. Okay from bad to

14:34

hours till such a sound. And

14:36

then let's talk about releasing that you. That's

14:38

it, she said. And

14:41

and you just ask for it to be there

14:43

is a pure a process and already received a

14:45

response. Retard.

14:48

Kind of feel like you dangling a terrorist said you

14:50

would never going to give us. Our.

14:54

Records different minutes. Responded

14:56

to a request. We.

14:59

Did submit several pr raise.

15:01

Public. Records requests that were denied.

15:04

But. Retail had told us to come back

15:06

after we've finished as reporting so she

15:08

could be evaluate. But. Now.

15:11

She's. Acting as if this never happened.

15:14

My. Understanding was. Deserted

15:16

delicate balance. With that is in

15:19

our reporting We find information that.

15:22

Would mean that he wants to reopen

15:24

the case. Then. Obviously he would

15:26

wants to withhold the. Criminal Investigation

15:28

because. The. My the com

15:31

actors. Or s at the

15:33

end of our forty we tell he

15:35

will. he sounds it doesn't bring any

15:37

new information. Then. You would

15:39

consider Oscars like a historical figure.

15:41

There's no harm. In releasing the

15:44

criminal investigation on that, you would

15:46

consider doing that. Evidence

15:48

doesn't need answering. This is my

15:50

agency considering you're welcome to resubmit

15:52

based on email hate weeds. This

15:55

is why this is where we're

15:57

at. We're going Kiss, You know?

15:59

really? The podcast and we might get

16:01

for partners. I. Am I

16:04

would suggest resubmitting through the

16:06

Pr a process without additional

16:08

information. Will. Do that. To.

16:10

We a good sense. It's

16:13

not for me to say. So.

16:16

I resubmit the peers. And.

16:20

It's a know. Dealing

16:23

with the Santa Barbara Sheriff's

16:25

Office feel? plead bait and

16:27

switch mean which. It

16:29

makes me really feel for

16:31

Mr. Go News and what

16:33

he must have gone through

16:35

after his son's death of

16:38

frustration is seen top one

16:40

thing and then later been

16:42

told another whether it was

16:44

through unclear communications for disregard.

16:48

For lack of transparency, the

16:50

mutual distrust homered everything about

16:52

this crease, which makes me

16:54

all the more uneasy to

16:56

tell Oscars closest friends and

16:58

family about. Our investigation.

17:07

Thanks for meeting. You

17:09

welcome. We wanted

17:11

to the have this kind of sit

17:14

down with Mr. Goldman and were not

17:16

able to at this point. Yeah, so

17:18

we're having a with you. I

17:21

mean one Gonzales had an outdoor picnic

17:23

tables near a Baldwin Park Rec Center.

17:25

Since my last sit down with Oscars

17:27

dad when I turned off the audio

17:30

recorder Mr. Groom as as for more

17:32

time to process. It's

17:34

hard to relive the most painful event of

17:36

your life in front of a tape recorder.

17:38

And. I respect that. Some going

17:40

back to one the person

17:42

who put me on this

17:44

path in the first place

17:46

Wanna things I want to

17:49

do with you is close

17:51

the loop in a way

17:53

on this production. So nervous

17:55

you know we began nine

17:57

months ago. He more or

17:59

less and. Though we want to. Touch

18:02

you bit about what we sound. Along

18:05

the way and and or investigation. So

18:08

over the course of about an hour

18:10

we send across the picnic table and

18:12

I run through what we sound. First.

18:18

That we didn't find evidence for

18:21

the big hazard theory and he

18:23

played out what his brother noise

18:25

told them soon after after died

18:28

what we learned from Hobby or

18:30

proceed or tells us that Noel

18:32

sat him down on the tears

18:35

came back into the apparent as

18:37

the roommates lookout Mrs ask us

18:40

downwards a set of records request

18:42

to various agencies and institutions involve

18:44

that didn't turn up anything. No

18:47

communication from the Santa. Barbara

18:49

agencies and what we learned

18:51

about other Bluff Deaths: some

18:53

of those deaths, head injury

18:56

similar to Oscars and the

18:58

conclusion of the forensic pathologists

19:00

they don't see it being

19:02

caused by somebody sitting hospice.

19:05

They said that the injuries

19:07

are consistent with an accidental

19:09

fall. I'm

19:13

watching porn carefully. Expecting

19:15

some reaction, But.

19:17

As express in his even. Unchanged.

19:21

We. Didn't find that Oscar was

19:24

murdered. Yeah well

19:26

known. found that Now if you ask

19:28

me my pin and and based on

19:30

what I've heard I would have to

19:32

say that he was Does any of

19:35

this said I've told you those move

19:37

the needle for you at all role

19:39

I've heard it before. I've heard hey

19:41

you I heard even was suicide I

19:44

heard he was accident. I've heard that

19:46

you know that Asa was careless. You

19:48

know me a bar to convince you

19:50

that of years in a murder sounds

19:52

really high one? Well not as high.

19:55

but I. Just don't close my door to

19:57

anything. You might hear

19:59

that I'm struggling. Here. Everything.

20:01

I've learned over the last month's. Much.

20:04

Of it's new information. Is being

20:06

dismissed as just another theory. But.

20:09

I'm also thinking of the Pathologist

20:11

Doctor Lindsay Thomas. Trying

20:13

to be sensitive of letting go of

20:15

the idea that I can convince anyone

20:17

have something they don't want to hear.

20:21

For. Now my disbelief towards

20:23

ones reaction. Is winning

20:25

out. Com

20:27

an insidious. The.

20:31

The word murder was

20:33

so strong and so

20:35

loud from you. From

20:37

Mister Go Bears and

20:39

Christie's Epitaph Oscars, I'm

20:41

seem to mean finding

20:43

the murderer and I

20:45

haven't Yeah, well, I'm.

20:48

Again, swear twenty years after the sack

20:51

the dorsal He mean. He

20:54

gets every year yes, ten

20:57

times. harder to to pinpoint

20:59

any one that. Had to

21:01

do with officers murder on it. Could

21:03

have been a strangers who been passer

21:05

by. We don't know who it was

21:08

so these are fair points. Horn is

21:10

making. It is possible

21:12

that a random passer by pushed

21:14

tasker. It's possible that Have

21:17

The Air and Jose were not telling

21:19

us the truth. What? We have.

21:21

Is. A lack of evidence for those

21:24

kinds of possibilities? We'd. Did

21:26

find evidence that supports this

21:28

scenario. That oscar fell

21:31

accidently that night. With. No

21:33

witnesses around. And if

21:35

that did happen, There's. No way

21:37

to prove it definitively. Which.

21:39

Leaves the door open for

21:42

other possibilities. Which. Seem.

21:45

More. Persuasive to horn. And

21:47

for Mr. Gomez to. None.

21:49

Of what I've gone through.

21:51

Prove to you know, annoying.

21:55

For me a for me all

21:57

the series whether it's a fool's

21:59

crime, a conspiracy, an accident I

22:02

read the all have the same

22:04

level of of of you know

22:06

percentage my mind No one has

22:08

proved to me that he was

22:11

he was accent or was a

22:13

crime. And

22:16

and that's okay. You know, for me,

22:18

that's okay because. Whether

22:21

time will reveal itself? That

22:26

that's something to to be seen. Our.

22:29

Conclusion is just so similar to

22:31

what the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office

22:33

found nearly three decades ago. The

22:36

agency one in a family have been suspicious

22:38

of for so many years. I

22:41

can change that. All I can

22:43

give him as my empathy. About what

22:45

Oscars friends and family went through after

22:47

his death. That's it. For

22:52

me I have come to new

22:54

understandings searching for what happened to

22:56

ask. And

22:58

there's one last conversation I want to

23:01

share with you with a person who

23:03

helped me process my to colonel activists

23:05

use someone from west upon a time

23:08

when. I was

23:10

asked to. Japan's

23:22

a filet presenting was calling

23:24

his I'd expect yourself. How

23:27

are you translate to cute Are adorable?

23:29

Get it's influence extends beyond authentic to

23:31

into the space. And or technology.

23:33

And even social behavior. The.in the

23:35

Shootout, the king of tidy things

23:37

together. multiple artwork unraveling the college

23:40

contest to foster a sense of

23:42

joy, innocence and community as a

23:44

tool for something else and representation.

23:46

visitors can step into the colorful

23:48

well to seal the A for

23:50

them on May second to November.

23:52

Third node missing. See more at

23:54

to Panels L A.com. Natalie

24:04

and I meet Sabrina Enrique outside

24:06

grocery store in Sacramento. It's loud

24:08

so we have to get creative.

24:12

Have a touching and mythology. Okay

24:14

so that I would get a

24:16

Mitsubishi accounted. For first met Sabrina

24:18

in Nineteen Ninety. Had a tunnel actress

24:20

meeting in San Diego. Sort.

24:22

Of little younger than the rest of us,

24:25

more connected to cioloş street Culture. We.

24:27

Carpool to conferences and marches

24:29

to remember her radical speeches

24:32

in ten stare and Black

24:34

Close. Her family the

24:36

Americas are legendary and San

24:38

Diego. They. Helped create the city's

24:40

to town or cultural center. And

24:43

or grandmother helped found San Diego Police

24:45

for Glory. Go in a slump. A.

24:47

Group: The Teachers: Mexican full toward

24:50

dances and performance. Sabrina.

24:52

Since she remembers giving presentations as

24:54

a kid about Us Lion and

24:56

the eighteen Forty Eight Treaty of

24:58

Guadalupe Hidalgo. To. Dunno activism

25:00

was the in her dna. She.

25:03

Says that activism deeper sense of

25:05

purpose. I had a lot

25:08

of some conflict in my inner. Personal.

25:10

Life with in my soundly and said

25:13

there was such as lot of chaos

25:15

in and moving around at different schools

25:17

and the one percent was that i

25:20

had this one outlet that he let

25:22

me see that kind of. Me

25:25

before so in A and.

25:29

And feel like I like my

25:31

my worth mattered when I didn't

25:33

feel that in my life in

25:35

my. Personal life as a time. When.

25:38

Sabrina met me. I was just starting to

25:40

embrace the term for tunnel. Still,

25:42

Intimidated by the militant ideology of some

25:45

of the people, we met a Chicano

25:47

student gatherings. It was

25:49

at one of these conferences that

25:51

Sabrina met Oscar. I'm.

25:54

So. Stoked about asked her

25:56

how to basket a car

25:59

hundred meters. You

26:01

might have been there. Really? Subtle

26:03

maybe? same you have. She

26:07

was on a panel for something. Hey

26:11

I just remembered seeing him and then

26:13

industries is getting like to spark this.

26:16

And I once. Saw.

26:20

A force and I. First

26:23

when it's. Like when has just like a random

26:25

like kind of like. You

26:27

know, and then. She

26:30

came up and introduced himself as

26:32

we were leaving when we first

26:34

place. She

26:38

was like a true soul. Person

26:42

sulfur. Wizards this

26:44

really beautiful chemistry and

26:46

connection. At

26:51

the time Sabrina such who was negotiating her

26:53

needs and those who put it on a

26:55

movement. Some. Of the organizers told

26:57

her not to apply to college because

27:00

the movement needed her. But. Oscar

27:02

provided a different perspective.

27:05

Is. Super encouraging. I remember that. And

27:07

also had me kind of question or

27:10

think about some of the environment or

27:12

elements that were affecting me. know in

27:14

people and in organizations in the things

27:16

he's like. You know, why were you

27:18

focusing on this instead of focusing on

27:21

like you know, college at the Something.

27:23

Like that. And it sounds

27:25

like Sabrina provided a different perspective for

27:27

ask her to. Oscar

27:29

was a complex person, you know, yet

27:32

a lot of drive and anymore but

27:34

I think a little bit of a

27:36

chaotic hard to have. This

27:38

huge concern really almost like swirling like

27:41

there are no periods. This Sir Thomas

27:43

in the Lamers, it's kind of likes

27:45

or dislikes. Ball of energy is and

27:48

by the end he would always say

27:50

he knows it's like you would it

27:52

would just be so com as so

27:54

grounded and goods And that was what

27:57

we. Said was that were there was something

27:59

There were. He had this way of

28:01

building me up and I had away browning

28:03

him and that was how we were compatible

28:06

so makes sense. The does. We've.

28:10

Heard before for masters friend Eddie Silas,

28:12

but Oscar was reassessing his relationship to

28:14

the To Movement in the last year

28:16

of his life. Sabrina.

28:18

Saw a more internal struggle that

28:21

Oscar was dealing with. She.

28:24

Would say like or what is he is

28:27

he grew up with this. List ability

28:29

with of mother and father and

28:31

like a comfortable neighborhood like they

28:33

moved out of the biotech give

28:36

them a comfortable environment. He has

28:38

friends had the schools. And.

28:41

She. Had a little bit of like. Who.

28:43

Am I to be telling these

28:45

these kids that are in in

28:47

July years in the pen that

28:49

like. That

28:51

I have the answers so there was

28:54

a little bit of that conflict questioning

28:56

for you to speak to. These things

28:58

when you've had a different experience is

29:01

essentially a slightly from a place as

29:03

what many people would regard as a

29:05

privilege. There. Were also external

29:07

pressures Sabrina said after was thinking

29:10

of pursuing politics for communications, but

29:12

was afraid of being seen as

29:14

a sellout by the movement. She.

29:16

Saw members of her own

29:18

family experience these accusations first

29:20

hand. Well. There you know

29:23

say full is see these. Speak.

29:25

Negatively of that my tooth. To. Fuck.

29:28

And his organization and in Arizona

29:30

and what she was during working

29:33

with the United Nations for Indigenous

29:35

peoples through. As and and

29:37

water rights. She was going to Switzerland

29:40

to speak for indigenous peoples at a

29:42

high platform with the lot of. Notoriety.

29:46

I guess you know. And. So the

29:48

organization in San Diego would look at

29:50

that and say was, you know he

29:52

saw him out. Because

29:54

it's going on this

29:57

world platforms. And not you

29:59

know, putting us. The of him essentially. Some.

30:02

Of these, more radical Chicano

30:04

activists rejected any and all

30:06

government organizations. These ah

30:09

these agencies has part of the system

30:11

that such a channels out of socio

30:13

political opportunities in the Us. And

30:16

you would try to like. And

30:18

ways concern and then what would

30:20

happen. I'm I'd I'd get set

30:22

down. There is some, it's

30:24

like harsh negativity and this bickering and a

30:27

lot of like much she's moines is kind

30:29

of putting each other down as when we

30:31

the room they're talking shit about each other.

30:34

Sabrina. Said she felt especially dismissed

30:36

because he was a woman. Can.

30:39

You give me a for instance like a

30:41

one time something happened. Know women

30:43

like would be. Doing

30:46

all the pamphlets and hints, doing all

30:48

the cooking and. You know

30:50

be out working to but so have

30:52

to give their contribution. Monetarily to

30:54

to organizations always being ah

30:57

essentially at the service of

30:59

the men who have all

31:01

the all the power not

31:04

to say so in this

31:06

decision making. Listening

31:12

to Sabrina taking me Back

31:14

conflicts that I experienced. This.

31:19

Idea we inherited from sixties activists

31:21

are you do wanna be a

31:23

buell? Tackle a solo. Coca

31:26

As we said in the nineties. Hit.

31:29

Me, The world and my

31:31

choices primary secreted an atmosphere

31:33

of suspicion rather than one

31:36

of compassion and honest. And

31:39

at that time I remember learning about

31:41

the much season of nineteen sixties. That.

31:46

We have passed. On

31:49

embarrassed to say that I'd never

31:51

seen anything wrong with the movement's

31:53

gender relations to I realize now.

31:56

Because I didn't work. I'm

32:01

sorry you went through that on

32:03

either. So city I'm you know

32:05

what I say, and I give

32:07

that apology as someone who was

32:09

part of that. Structures No,

32:12

No No No No no, Well, as part

32:14

of it, If not, I didn't cause any

32:16

harm to no no no no but I

32:18

went to so a lot of those meetings.

32:22

I remember these meetings and the

32:25

people Sabrina talking about. I

32:27

had looked up to some of them as

32:29

my intellectual mentors. Has been some

32:31

lot of time with them driving

32:33

to and from college campuses. I

32:36

agree to publish their writings in my

32:38

college newspaper. Was from thirty, so. We.

32:41

Talk so much about

32:43

overthrowing a press of

32:45

power structures. But. We

32:47

hadn't examined our own. See

32:50

that like that. She's know an

32:52

Oscar. I didn't know, I did

32:54

not and I'll tell you something

32:56

there is. There was a time

32:58

I was really questioning like my

33:00

identity and likes. I had been

33:02

dating a woman who was a

33:05

few years older than me and

33:07

I haven't told anyone and he

33:09

was the one person that I

33:11

talk to about it. I had

33:13

internal conflict I didn't have the

33:15

terminology to label it myself, you

33:17

know and so she was the

33:19

person I talked. To and people who

33:21

knew him differently wouldn't know that about him

33:23

but he's the one who is encouraging as

33:25

as like you know you do you it

33:27

they ignore know and like a label you

33:30

and the and and puts you in in

33:32

a any business is due to want to

33:34

be in that kind of thing So that

33:36

was the person he was to me and

33:38

he was very encouraging Me Just you know

33:41

exploring. I

33:52

used to think my identity of a

33:54

Chicano was stuck in the nineties. The

33:57

with this and list. For

33:59

me. Is the progression of the

34:01

movement since. It

34:05

allowed me to see are

34:07

worth more fully which means

34:09

acknowledging to hurt we cost

34:12

and that allows me to

34:14

recognize how the tunnel connects

34:16

like next. Activists have come

34:18

after us, have created more

34:20

inclusive spaces for all sorts

34:22

of people including my kids

34:25

who are multi ethnic and

34:27

for me to a Mexican

34:29

born, formerly undocumented order raised

34:31

American citizen. But

34:34

I don't think we would have. Gotten here without

34:36

nineties to com a student

34:38

activists working to resist xenophobic

34:41

policies and to affirm their

34:43

dignity. Back then all I

34:45

saw was setbacks and now

34:47

I can recognize are. Gonna

34:51

student activists protested and drew attention

34:53

for Prop One Eighty Seven, which

34:56

was ruled unconstitutional after a pass

34:58

to Ninety Ninety Four student Hunger

35:00

Strikers one victory for their campuses

35:02

like the creation of University to.

35:05

Gonna Studies departments and doctoral program

35:07

which are still around and some

35:09

for today as those efforts laid

35:12

the groundwork for changes being made

35:14

now. In

35:16

recent years, Telephone is public

35:19

high schools, community colleges, and

35:21

the twenty three Campus State

35:23

University System approved Ethnic Studies

35:25

class requirements. And then there's

35:28

the way we talk about

35:30

organizing Today In two thousand

35:32

nine teams met a leaders

35:34

voted for drop of Blood

35:37

Sugar next from the organization's

35:39

name to be more inclusive

35:41

of marginalized groups. Intersectionality Coalition

35:43

Building Anti Racism So many

35:46

of. These ideas grew out of

35:48

seeds planted in the nineties. Some.

35:51

Of those seeds planted by Oscar.

35:56

Hearing. Sabrina talk about Oscar makes me

35:58

proud in a way. Never been

36:00

before of are too kind of

36:02

movement as an ongoing process of

36:04

liberating our minds. It's

36:07

validating. As has been

36:09

a healing process for me. To.

36:12

Have asked her to Thanks to that. Just.

36:16

Of the hottest hurts because he is

36:18

a want to put me on this.

36:21

Road. I'm looking for him and I

36:23

think you're looking for hims. I found

36:25

myself. Isis to. Censuses,

36:29

I saw another story of how you essentially

36:31

went from your high school and to use

36:33

is T and then involved with reporting like

36:36

how did that come about and I mean

36:38

and you can decide as you may or

36:40

may not want to talk about here right

36:42

now or we could be done. But think

36:45

about it, you will. But I did. He

36:47

look s. Some. Nails is

36:49

ah. Nineteen.

36:51

Eighty Six amnesty is approved

36:54

by. And that allows

36:56

me than to apply to you see

36:58

us d There's a counselor who helps

37:01

me. There was still affirmative action as

37:03

I got in on special action because

37:05

I the I don't offer I didn't

37:08

have the grades sajid in the easiest

37:10

the you ask you this is judy

37:12

speak like violated my panic as the

37:14

so much. So

37:19

as it was my language around,

37:21

you know, Syllable

37:25

word. In

37:28

it for my game is was

37:31

a formality well as a. Very

37:33

formal language. Yeah because I grew up

37:35

around the dogs and like. Like.

37:38

I said I didn't have like core

37:40

groups of friends that. That

37:42

I could just be myself. Around months.

37:46

You know what if you take me

37:48

since the one or two my

37:50

cousins without a mourners. You'll

37:52

see a different he'll be I

37:55

border border robinson said lawyer burrow

37:57

those so is probably. Comfortable

38:00

around you, present yourself as if

38:02

you are working. You know that's

38:04

so funny either. Yes I am.

38:06

I just do with us to

38:08

and it makes sense and I

38:10

can see that. I

38:12

appreciated that you would see Seriously,

38:15

you were never inappropriate sick all

38:17

of those things I'll always. you

38:19

know I have a high regard

38:21

for you. In and Your wages

38:24

you were reporting, essentially reporting the

38:26

news. You substrate our all and

38:28

like think I said straight out

38:31

scene cause for together so deep.

38:33

Sea. Glass

38:35

is way before they were cool is

38:37

randy and everywhere in of that. Sounds

38:40

like. You've presented itself.

38:42

Very precisely from the start

38:44

and those busy. A

38:49

few years ago, this kind of

38:51

praise would have made me feel

38:53

so uncomfortable. But. Now

38:55

I'm feeling the sense of connection

38:57

with Sabrina. I'm starting

38:59

to have the kinds of conversations that

39:02

I close my so far from growing

39:04

up. A

39:06

new another said you know I'm

39:08

hearing you know and I know

39:10

you've done so much more And

39:13

your your your you know Adam

39:15

Adam Really good place but I'm

39:17

hearing the same down somebody now.

39:21

Together with us since a strong foundation

39:23

that I knew that I just I'm

39:25

appreciating is in a divorce. So

39:28

thank you. Ma'am

39:34

we. Turned nasty and I are on

39:36

our last trip to Santa Barbara were

39:38

a tempest points a rocky bless where

39:40

the U C Santa Barbara campus and

39:43

be I lived as the neighborhood me.

39:46

According to holsters, Data Third, this

39:48

is the location More says he

39:50

says. Their

39:57

students in twos and threes. Taking

40:00

photos were staring out of proportion. As

40:02

the sun is close to setting, Hello

40:05

Surfers ride the waves. some very

40:07

close to Black Rock's shutting out

40:09

of the water. I

40:12

stepped right to the edge of the blessed and

40:14

look over. The

40:16

dropdown is maybe twenty twenties I

40:19

see. With.

40:22

This the view that ask yourself to. Are

40:26

you feeling about idea ending

40:28

the project? So

40:32

we have to finish the scripts and

40:34

actually a out. As I mean like

40:36

emotionally, it's such a privilege to be

40:38

able to tell us their story and

40:41

story of. His. Friends

40:43

and his family, but also his

40:45

movement. For

40:47

to me as a great privilege and I

40:49

know gotta come to an end And it

40:51

says because I can't live in Oscars world

40:54

from Ninety Ninety to Ninety Ninety Four forever.

40:57

And I would want it. Because

41:00

it's toll. Of

41:03

people have been. People

41:05

have been living in that was in those

41:07

years and that's all they've got avast. You

41:12

know, in the decade since the nineties,

41:14

I've gotten into Judaism. At

41:16

first it was through attending services

41:18

with my wife and though I

41:20

have not converted, it's become my

41:22

regular spiritual practice. Judaism

41:25

taught me about connection and

41:27

empathy. Unconstrained by

41:29

space and time. As

41:33

a really interesting teaching from a Rabbi that

41:35

I said I was reading so the to

41:38

see was okay. a wave of comedy and

41:40

where ya from far out of the ocean

41:42

and it sees. The waves ahead of their

41:44

crashing in the wave gets anxious. Like oh

41:47

my dust. No. a

41:49

bit. On fashionable

41:51

to disappear. But

41:54

the ways to the realize that it's

41:56

part of the ocean. It

42:01

doesn't disappear. So part of

42:03

the ocean. How

42:07

is that relevant thought the gum as well. All

42:11

the things that we've been learning

42:13

about after all these cause it

42:15

is. Feeling

42:17

that the last uplift seeing things

42:20

that is said to people all

42:22

this kind of like. Enabling

42:25

that he veered of people's. Positive

42:27

identity of them. So of

42:30

his friends had said he

42:32

had his legacy. For

42:35

me is the ocean right? Heathrow

42:40

Air through all those positive things and through

42:42

the movement. The people who thoughts. Center

42:50

for the Past. For

42:56

I had the world listener. thirty knots and porn.

42:58

then you know the we listened to the different

43:00

things. you know, the poetry in the, the murals

43:02

in the art, it's all part of our food

43:05

on it's all part of our expressive. you know

43:07

and you hunt the author. you're the you know

43:09

as far as a reader going on. just the

43:11

needle. You guys have the record you know him

43:13

without without you guys and some money thing me

43:15

it's all about giving back to the very people

43:17

I give us another source in the for them

43:20

which is the hinted at them without him once

43:22

again know if you want gimme are dumb as

43:24

he does you wanna little feedback? So five to.

43:26

Two seven, Seven Seven. Either

44:10

homeless man Lopez wrote, reported and

44:12

hosted season two of Imperfect Paradise

44:14

The Forgotten Revolutionary co writing and

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co reporting Really? Producer: now deleted

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He a host of Imperfect Paradise

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