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1:10

Aloha and Namaste, everyone, and welcome to

1:13

Impolitic with John Heilman, my new podcast

1:15

on politics and culture for Odyssey and

1:17

Puck, where I am the

1:19

chief political columnist, cranking out a weekly

1:21

dispatch that shares its name in politic

1:23

with the show. The column

1:25

arrives via email every Sunday night if you

1:27

sign up. And if you haven't already, you

1:29

should get on that and subscribe right now

1:32

by going to Puck.news

1:34

slash Impolitic. That's

1:37

Puck.news slash I.M.P.

1:40

O.L.I. T.I.C. and

1:43

availing yourself of the 20 percent discount on

1:45

a Puck subscription just for listening

1:47

to this podcast. Some of you

1:49

may recall that I used to host a pod called Helen

1:51

Highwater, and this new show is just like that show. Only

1:54

we're dropping fresh episodes twice a week every

1:56

Tuesday and Friday instead of just once. Episodes.

2:00

where we roam the corridors of power and

2:02

influence in America, having bracing, no holds barred

2:04

conversations with the people who shape our culture.

2:06

In entertainment, business, tech, sports, media,

2:08

and of course, politics, our bread and butter

2:11

around here. And today we are really delivering

2:13

on that promise by sitting down with someone

2:15

who is smack dab in the eye of

2:18

the raging swirling hurricane that is the 2024

2:21

presidential election. That would be Jennifer

2:23

O'Malley Dillon, the chair of

2:26

Joe Biden's reelection campaign. Born

2:28

in Boston, educated at Tufts where she

2:30

majored in political science and way more

2:32

important was the captain of the softball

2:34

team. JOD got her start in presidential

2:36

politics on Al Gore's 2000 campaign where

2:39

she quickly built her reputation as a field

2:42

organizer par excellence, which she then proceeded to

2:44

parlay into a resume about as stellar as

2:46

they come in the world of democratic operatives.

2:49

Iowa field director for John Edwards in

2:51

2004 and Iowa state director for Edwards

2:53

in 2008, battleground state director for

2:55

Barack Obama in the 2008 general

2:57

election, and Obama deputy campaign manager

2:59

in 2012 chair of

3:02

the DNC unity reform commission after the 2016 election.

3:05

And finally in 2020 general election campaign

3:07

manager for Joe Biden, that victory

3:09

making her the first female campaign chief

3:11

ever to put a Democrat in the

3:13

oval office after three years

3:15

serving as deputy White House chief of

3:17

staff in January of this year, Jen moved

3:20

from Washington to Wilmington to take over

3:22

running the real act alongside Biden's longtime chief

3:24

strategist, Mike Donilon. Since then, JOD

3:26

has not done a single extended recorded

3:28

on the record interview with anyone. And

3:31

we are honored and delighted that she

3:33

chose to dive into the deep end

3:35

of the pool right here on in

3:37

politic and a deep dive is exactly

3:39

what our conversation was with the

3:41

first and who knows given Donald Trump's

3:43

inconsistency and unreliability, maybe the only presidential

3:46

debate of 2024, less than one week

3:48

away. Many Democrats are,

3:51

let's be honest about this, shitting

3:53

bricks over what's to come and not just

3:55

on the debate stage. The polls freak them

3:57

out. The battleground states freak them out. Every

4:00

viral video, some doctored, some legit,

4:03

in which Biden looks his

4:05

age, those really freak them

4:07

out. Democrats have concerns and

4:09

fears. They have the heebie-jeebies and the

4:11

Vapers. But most of all, they have

4:13

questions. Does team Biden have a real

4:16

plan to win this thing? What's the path to victory?

4:18

And is the candidate himself really and

4:20

truly, actually and factually, up for this

4:23

fight? Does Joe Biden still have what

4:25

it takes to win? Well, friends,

4:27

if you're among those asking those questions, asking

4:30

them over and over and over,

4:32

ad infinitum and ad nauseum, I

4:34

have some very good news for

4:36

you. I asked them all

4:38

to Jennifer O'Malley-Dillon, and she came armed

4:40

with answers. So settle in for this

4:42

very special episode of In Politic with John Heilman, coming at

4:45

you in 3, 2, 1. The

4:49

issue is the American people should speak. You

4:52

should go out and vote. You're

4:54

in voting now. Vote and let your

4:56

senators know how strong you feel. Let

4:59

vote now. Make sure you in

5:01

fact let people know. I'm

5:05

not going to answer the question because the question

5:07

is the question is the question is will

5:11

you shut up? Listen, who is on

5:13

your list? Joe? This is all right.

5:16

Gentlemen, I think this is so unpresidential.

5:20

We have ended this segment. We're going to move

5:22

on to the second segment. That was really a

5:24

productive segment, wasn't it? That

5:26

was 35 or 45 seconds

5:28

of what I call

5:31

a highlight or a low light, but a

5:33

memorable moment in the first Donald Trump-Joe Biden

5:35

debate in 2020. We're here with Jenna Valley-Dillon.

5:37

And Jen, thank you for coming. Don't

5:40

just nod. You're on audio here. You have

5:43

to say something. I'm

5:45

so happy to be here. Oh, good. That's perfect.

5:47

I was told reliably by one of

5:49

your minions, by one of your footmen,

5:52

that you wanted to know whether it was okay

5:54

to curse on this podcast.

5:56

And I want to answer that definitively.

5:59

Fuck yes. Please

6:01

fucking curse as much as you fucking like. If this

6:03

is a very explicit fucking podcast and if you don't

6:05

curse now, I'm gonna be really disappointed. But my mom

6:07

might be listening, you know. Well,

6:09

she would probably, she'd be like, she didn't curse. What

6:11

happened to my daughter? I

6:14

played the debate clip because

6:16

Biden telling Trump to shut up was

6:19

obviously memorable. But we have this debate,

6:21

it's coming up. That is

6:23

the kind of thing with that crosstalk that the

6:25

rules are meant to eliminate. How confident are you?

6:27

I wanna talk a little debate stuff before we

6:29

go to some larger things. But how confident are

6:31

you that the rules are gonna work, these new

6:33

rules that have been established? Well,

6:35

I mean, first of all, I'm confident that Joe

6:38

Biden's gonna stand on that stage and he is

6:40

gonna show what he showed in 2020. That

6:43

he is in this for all

6:45

the right reasons. He's focused on delivering for the American

6:47

people and him standing next to Donald Trump is the

6:50

best way to show that. Do I

6:52

think rules are going

6:54

to protect the American

6:56

people from whatever Donald Trump might say?

6:58

Of course not. But I do think

7:01

having this really be serious is what

7:03

the American people want. And I think

7:05

that Joe Biden every day is doing the

7:07

job of being president. This is a great

7:09

opportunity earlier in this cycle than ever before

7:12

for the two of them to stand together and for

7:15

him to talk about what he's done and what he's

7:17

fighting for. And not having an

7:19

audience, not having distractions, not having to worry

7:21

about COVID, I think all those things are

7:23

better for the American people and Joe Biden's

7:26

gonna have great debate. One

7:30

of the questions that I get asked a lot, and

7:33

I don't know the answer to, and I'm curious if you do, is

7:36

it, do you know what the

7:38

disposition of the moderators is in the course of

7:40

the negotiations? Have the moderators said, or as CNN

7:42

said, whether the moderators are

7:44

going to be inclined to fact check Donald

7:46

Trump in real time or whether their attitude

7:48

is that's the job of Joe Biden? Well,

7:52

I mean, look, I don't know the answer and

7:54

exactly how it's gonna go. At the same time,

7:56

I think that it's clear that

7:59

everyone I

14:00

want to ask you about the we're going to talk about

14:02

a bunch of things related to how you guys are going

14:04

to how you see the path to victory and talk about

14:06

states and stuff, but let's at the highest level. Let me

14:08

ask you about the state of the race. Fox

14:11

News poll comes out today has Biden at 50 Trump

14:13

at 48. The

14:17

morning consult most recent one the day before I

14:20

think had Biden at 44 Trump at

14:22

43. These are

14:24

both obviously within the margin of error as you and

14:26

I both know well within the margin of error. These

14:28

are statistical ties. But you know you look at Trump's

14:30

peak. Just look at the

14:32

polling averages. His peak was in January where

14:34

there was again according to our CP or

14:36

according to 538. You

14:38

had Trump showing it about four point lead.

14:41

Do you see a trend

14:44

line of Biden on the uptick

14:46

over the first six months of the year? Is that

14:48

something you see? The public polls are what

14:50

they are and the battleground states are different from the national

14:52

polls, etc, etc. But in the states you care

14:54

about on the battlefields that you're fighting

14:56

on, are you seeing an uptick and appreciable uptick? And

14:58

what can you say about that in

15:01

this span that we're talking about the last six

15:03

months? Yeah, I mean yes, the answer is yes.

15:05

But look, I think fundamentally everyone

15:07

in this country has to understand that this

15:10

is a very close election and it's going

15:12

to be close. And I get our folks

15:14

wish it weren't the case, but also every

15:16

other presidential in history has been close. Our

15:18

race in 2020, the 2016 race, the 2012

15:20

race was close. We

15:23

are a polarized nation in

15:25

many ways. And

15:28

we also have seen

15:30

significantly from when Trump

15:33

was convicted by a jury of

15:35

his peers of 34 counts, we

15:37

have seen a movement in

15:39

our direction and away from Trump. There's

15:42

also still lots of folks in this country

15:44

that yes, they know this election is happening.

15:46

Yes, they know that it's coming up, but

15:48

they're just not that engaged in it now.

15:50

And for those people, they're starting

15:52

to tune in a little bit more. We're doing a

15:55

lot on the campaign side to reach them. But

15:57

at the end of the day, all of these as

15:59

you well. no or snapshots in time. Do I think

16:02

that it's trending in our direction? Yes, I had someone

16:04

say to me earlier today, maybe Donald Trump is peaked.

16:06

You know, there's not a lot of room for growth for him

16:09

when you look at his coalition and how, you

16:11

know, he's even expressing to the folks that voted

16:14

for Nikki Haley and other Republicans, you know, that

16:16

he didn't need them. Well, we welcome them. And

16:18

we see a lot of opportunity to continue to

16:20

grow the people that are with Joe Biden by

16:23

doing the work of telling his story, what he's

16:25

about and what his vision is. And I don't

16:27

see that on Donald Trump's side. As

16:30

I think, you know, my my view

16:32

about polling is, is, you know, trend

16:34

lines matter in the individual poll doesn't

16:36

matter. And that this is a

16:38

margin of error race. It's going to be a margin

16:41

of error race on November 4. And

16:43

so it's going to be one on the margins,

16:45

one and lost on the margins. Right. Yeah. But

16:47

I think what's interesting to me to go back

16:49

to the previous thing is that if

16:51

the previous topic is that if you think about

16:53

that place when Trump had his largest lead in

16:55

the polling average, and you put it next to

16:57

what the her report, I would

16:59

say that was the peak of that to

17:02

this point of where Democrats were freaking out

17:04

about about the state of the race.

17:06

And, you know, we know,

17:09

Democrats, you know, I'll

17:11

say the best people get mad at

17:13

the bedwetters, you know, sometimes they're just

17:15

soaking the sheets and sometimes and sometimes

17:17

and sometimes it's just a sprinkle, you

17:20

know, early this year, soaking the sheets. Do

17:22

you sense I sense a little bit of

17:24

like the bedwetting is rising again right now,

17:26

even though the race is

17:29

again on the margins, but it seems like

17:31

there's this appreciable trend line in

17:33

Biden's favor. Do you agree with me that

17:35

there's a that there's an increase in the

17:37

bedwetting? And if so, why, given that Biden

17:39

seems to be doing better in the numbers?

17:43

Well, I'd answer that in two ways. First

17:45

to say thank God I'm out of the

17:48

child rearing stages of having to worry

17:51

so much about bedwetting. That's

17:53

really where I'd like to keep that

17:55

conversation. But I

17:58

will say I've not seen so many so many. bad

18:00

sense. Listen,

18:02

you've got to keep it real. Mama 3 over here.

18:06

You know, look, I think that people

18:08

understand the stakes or people understand the

18:11

stakes, and it is not abstract. And

18:14

so, of course, people are worried.

18:16

Of course, people look at Donald

18:18

Trump and they hear what he

18:20

says from his own

18:22

mouth, and they know it is actually going to be

18:24

worse than it was last time. And we're doing a

18:26

lot to try to continue

18:28

to tell that story. But I

18:31

get it, and I think people are worried. In

18:33

our communities, the people that are with Joe Biden,

18:35

they're going to be on the receiving end of

18:37

whatever terrible thing Donald Trump is dictator on day

18:39

one is going to do. And so, I take

18:42

that very seriously. All of us do. We have

18:44

a lot of work to continue to do to

18:46

make our case and to make sure that people

18:48

see themselves in this campaign and see themselves in

18:50

the path that we're moving forward. But

18:53

I also think, look, a lot of our

18:55

folks would love to believe that you have

18:57

someone who is convicted of 34 counts

19:00

by a jury of their peers, that

19:04

he wouldn't be running for president

19:06

and the race wouldn't be close. And

19:08

I get that feeling too. And so, you

19:10

know, at the end of the day, I

19:12

think our job as a campaign is to

19:14

channel that worry into action.

19:17

And that's really what we're building for. That

19:19

is a perfect place for us to pause, stretch our

19:21

legs and sell some soap flakes. You

19:23

are listening to Empolitik with John Heilman

19:25

and our guest today, Biden campaign chair

19:28

Jenna O'Malley-Dillon. And we will be right

19:30

back. The

19:50

Step Back 3. Music.

19:53

And even

19:56

podcasts. Whatever

19:59

you love. Hear it right here

20:01

on tune in go to tune in calm

20:03

or download the tune in app to start

20:05

listening And we are

20:08

back with Jenna O'Malley Dylan and Jen before we

20:10

went to break you mentioned the former president's 34

20:13

felony convictions and that leads directly to where I

20:15

wanted to go you guys have a new ad

20:18

out this week That puts

20:20

those convictions front and center the

20:22

ad has gotten a lot of attention So let's listen

20:24

to it now in the courtroom. We see

20:26

Donald Trump for who he is He's

20:29

been convicted of 34 felonies

20:31

found liable for sexual assault

20:33

and he committed financial fraud

20:36

Meanwhile, Joe Biden's been working

20:38

lowering health care costs and

20:40

making big corporations pay their

20:42

fair share This

20:44

election is between a convicted criminal

20:47

who's only out for himself and

20:49

a president who's fighting for your family

20:52

I'm Joe Biden and I approve this message

20:55

Hearing that litany the convictions

20:58

the sexual assault the financial fraud

21:01

You know, I just can't help but think

21:03

of John Lovett's plan Mike Dukakis all those

21:05

years ago on SNL, you know He's like

21:07

I can't believe I'm losing this guy Only

21:11

now it's like today. It's I can't

21:13

believe this election is even close I

21:16

mean you would have thought the 34 felony convictions, you

21:18

know would be disqualifying at least in the America that

21:20

I grew up in But let's set that aside. It's

21:22

not apparently for a lot of people There's

21:25

a lot of debate about you guys have decided

21:27

to put this I know you're

21:29

not a comms person You're not the message maker

21:31

But but this is at the center There's a

21:33

big bad by important ad buy and you guys

21:35

have decided to go all in on on naming

21:37

and shaming Trump's a felon There's

21:40

a lot of debate about how much this matters. We all didn't

21:42

know. What do you get convicted? What do you not he's now

21:44

been convicted right in Then in the

21:46

data when you think about the voters that are out

21:48

there You guys know I was talking about 6% in

21:50

six states right of the persuadable

21:53

voters how much does

21:55

Trump being convicted and potentially

21:59

maybe more So like what happens with me

22:01

on more so but additionally the question of sentencing

22:03

how much does all that gonna weigh out in

22:05

the end? What's the political impact of it? Well,

22:09

look, I think it's quite significant but

22:12

it's not significant just because You

22:15

know, he's a bad guy like that's not the point of

22:17

this ad I mean and and obviously there's lots of different

22:19

directions we could have gone We went

22:22

very clearly in laying this out

22:24

and setting a contrast I my favorite line

22:26

of the whole thing is meanwhile Joe Biden's

22:28

been working as he has and

22:30

I think You

22:32

know fundamentally our job

22:34

is to ensure that people Know

22:37

that this happened and know why it matters

22:39

to them and I think that

22:41

we've seen in our in our research I think public

22:44

polling's also said this that this really permeated Across

22:47

and deep in this country and

22:50

that's hard to do right now I mean, that's

22:52

the biggest challenge in a lot of ways of

22:54

2024 Fragmented

22:56

media environment people are kind of

22:58

personalizing the incoming they take on

23:00

on any platform that they're on

23:03

The traditional tools are not

23:05

working as well to reach people And

23:07

the people also are looking

23:09

away from this race and I think that's

23:11

kind of fundamental. It's not amnesia It's not

23:14

like I forget although that is for some

23:16

cohorts people that were younger Maybe don't remember

23:18

when it was like in

23:20

the same visceral way that we remember it under

23:23

Trump but I really feel like this

23:26

this issue the fact that Donald Trump

23:28

is Convicted felon by

23:30

a jury of his peers when we looked

23:32

at research Independent voters moderate

23:35

voters low engaged low information

23:37

voters they all heard about

23:39

this and majority of them

23:41

said that that they would take that into

23:43

consideration when voting and At

23:46

the same time they did not believe that

23:48

the system was rigged So

23:50

that to me is significant It's

23:52

significant for us to continue to highlight but

23:54

but in contrast to what Joe Biden's been doing

23:57

I think that's why this ad so effective does

23:59

the sentence and

34:00

says we need them. But we are going

34:02

all out in Georgia, the same way we're

34:04

going all out in North Carolina. We are

34:06

psyched that the debate is in Atlanta, and

34:09

I think it's real. I mean, look, I

34:11

would say two cycles ago, Georgia wasn't

34:13

even a state that we ever tried.

34:15

I mean, I remember in 08 we tried to build

34:17

a campaign in there and it just wasn't there. So

34:20

I feel not only are we

34:22

strong, we have the people that led the

34:24

successful campaigns in Georgia helping lead our whole

34:26

national operation. And so I feel really good

34:28

about our path there. All right, we got

34:31

to take one more break to pay the bills around

34:33

here. And when we come back, we will play a

34:35

little of the maestro, John Stewart, raising an issue

34:37

that more than a few Democrats and big fans of

34:39

the president have raised with me, and

34:42

I'm sure with Jen, and we'll see what she has

34:44

to say about it, so stick around. We

34:55

all belong outside. We're drawn to nature.

34:57

Whether it's the recorded sounds of the

34:59

ocean we doze off to, or the

35:01

succulents that adorn our homes, nature

35:03

makes all of our lives, well, better.

35:06

Despite all this, we often go about

35:08

our busy lives removed from it, but

35:11

the outdoors is closer than we realize. With

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AllTrails, you can discover trails nearby

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and explore confidently. With offline maps

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app today and make the most

35:22

of your summer with AllTrails. And

35:26

we're back with Biden campaign chair, Jen

35:28

O'Malley-Dillon, and I promised that we would play a

35:30

clip from The Daily Show. In fact, this clip

35:32

was from John Stewart's first episode when he came

35:35

back, climbed back in the chair a few months

35:37

ago, back in February. He's

35:39

here talking about how both Joe

35:42

Biden and Donald Trump have

35:44

to contend with being, you know, a

35:46

little bit long in the tooth. Here

35:49

it is. These two candidates, they

35:51

are both similarly challenged, and it is not

35:53

crazy to think that the oldest people in

35:55

the history of the country to ever

35:57

run for president might have some of these challenges. Now

36:00

Democrats will say that any criticism

36:02

like this, especially if Biden is

36:04

unfair, because you just

36:07

don't know Biden like they know Biden.

36:09

This is a man who is sharp, who is on

36:12

top of his game, who knows what's going on. He's

36:14

smart. He's on his game. I was

36:16

in almost every meeting with the

36:18

president and the president was

36:21

in front of and on top of it

36:23

all. Did

36:26

anyone film that? Because

36:41

if you're telling us behind the scenes, he is sharp

36:43

and full of energy and on top of it really

36:45

in control and leading, you should film that. That

36:49

would be good to show to people. So

36:52

when John did that riff as part of

36:54

his monologue on his first show back, it

36:56

pissed off a bunch of Democrats and

36:59

he obviously knew it would, but

37:01

it also resonated with a lot of people, Jen,

37:03

including some real hardcore

37:05

mega supporters of President Biden. And look,

37:07

I mean, you've already said that Biden's

37:10

age and fitness are a legit are a totally

37:12

legitimate issue for the campaign. What

37:15

I would say about that is

37:17

that I don't want to be

37:20

too cynical, but when I hear

37:22

Congressman so-and-so and cabinet secretary so-and-so

37:24

testing to Joe Biden's acuity and

37:26

command, I think, yeah, whatever.

37:29

You don't spend that much time with Joe Biden. I've been

37:31

in a meeting with him once. I was in the map

37:33

room with him for 25 minutes. It's

37:36

good you guys have the surrogates out there, but you

37:39

have spent as much time with Joe Biden over

37:41

the course of the last three plus years,

37:43

three and a half years, as any top dozen

37:45

people in Biden's orbit. You spent time with him

37:47

all over the world, in the White House, all

37:49

over the place. So for

37:51

the Democrats out there who desperately

37:53

want him to win, desperately

37:56

want to stop Donald Trump, you can't play

37:59

fill the room. I'm here on a podcast, but like

38:02

convince them, me, like

38:04

that what you've seen is like,

38:07

yeah, he's up for the

38:09

fight. He's up for the job. Don't

38:12

worry, folks. He's got this.

38:15

Yeah. I mean, first of all, I would

38:18

say the same arguments were made in

38:21

2020 in our campaign, you

38:23

know, questioning whether

38:25

or not the president was up for the job. And

38:27

the answer to that is to show the president and

38:29

to continue to do that. And I think that that's

38:31

going to be, you know, an ongoing point

38:34

of why we wanted the debate early

38:36

and why it's so important for people

38:39

to connect with them and see them out on the

38:41

stage. But from a personal

38:43

standpoint, you know, I was

38:45

in the White House for a couple

38:48

of years and I have three little

38:50

kids. I have 11 year old daughters

38:52

and a six year old son. My

38:54

girls are going into middle school. My son kind

38:56

of had a tougher year and we had to

38:58

change schools and he's doing great now. But

39:01

I moved to Delaware. So I go back and forth. But

39:04

I left my kids to go do this

39:06

campaign. And I'm honored to do that. I

39:08

love this campaign. I love the people on

39:10

this campaign. The American people should

39:12

see the staff and the leadership of this

39:15

campaign. They are the best and the brightest

39:17

and they're young and they're diverse and they

39:19

care and they are going to be the

39:21

people that save this world. I

39:24

did this because I know what's at stake. But

39:26

I did this because of Joe Biden and for no

39:28

other reason. And I have seen him up in

39:31

close and personal. And my family was willing for

39:33

me to go do this because of that. So

39:35

let me just give you one anecdote that always

39:37

comes back to me when I am

39:40

asked this question. So in

39:43

May of 22, we did a trip to Asia. As

39:45

you mentioned, one of the parts of my job when

39:47

I was at the White House was to travel all

39:49

over the world with the president, which was completely

39:52

bananas and amazing. And

39:55

we went to Japan and South Korea. I,

39:57

by the way, had to Google that. because

40:00

I couldn't fucking remember what countries we went to and

40:02

I am 47. So

40:04

it isn't just stage. That

40:07

being said, you know, we had this great

40:09

trip really focused on manufacturing, chips, so

40:11

on and so forth, obviously lots

40:14

of elements, but it's a brutal, brutal trip.

40:17

You're flying for 24 hours. You're

40:19

doing four or five days of meetings. You're

40:21

coming back and you know, you have a

40:23

great trip. You want to chill on the

40:26

ride back. Joe Biden works. That

40:29

is just who he has always been and

40:31

that's an important thing for people to understand.

40:33

Stuff that like runs me down, he is

40:35

still running circles around me and I don't

40:37

say that lightly. Anyway, we were flying home.

40:40

It was like the middle of the night

40:42

for our time and I was still

40:44

awake and I saw on the TV the

40:47

shooting in Yuvaldi that

40:49

was unfolding before our eyes and

40:52

because of my role and because I was one of the

40:54

few people that were awake just at that time, I was

40:57

the one that ended up connecting with the president about

40:59

that and he was still awake and he

41:01

was watching it himself. He had

41:04

already reached out to get a

41:06

hold of Governor Abbott with his

41:08

focus solely on offering anything in

41:10

his power. How can he get

41:12

our people there? How can we help? What else can we

41:15

do? We land. He continues to

41:17

work. We land. He walks

41:20

from Marine One into the Oval Office, sits

41:23

down and is telling the team what he

41:25

wants to say and that he'd been working

41:27

on some remarks while we were

41:29

headed back. Less than an

41:31

hour later, he walks into the Roosevelt Room

41:33

and he speaks to the American people in

41:35

a time when they needed to hear from

41:37

him and in a time that was reminiscent

41:40

of when Joe Biden, the candidate, had to

41:42

be the voice of president because Donald Trump

41:44

never was. Three or

41:46

four days later, he and Dr. Biden

41:48

go to Yuvaldi and they spend three

41:50

hours in a room with family members

41:52

who are grieving the most horrifying thing

41:54

you can ever imagine and

41:57

he did not leave until every single person,

41:59

no matter the age, no matter did they

42:01

need a hug, a conversation, he did not

42:03

leave that room until they

42:05

all felt seen and heard. That

42:08

is Joe Biden. But he didn't stop

42:10

then. I

42:12

think it was a month later he signed

42:14

into law a bipartisan bill on

42:16

gun reform for the first time in 30

42:18

years. Is it enough? No.

42:22

But that to me is the essence of Joe Biden.

42:24

This man who is a leader

42:26

who can run around this country

42:28

and hold alliances together, find ways

42:30

to build jobs in this country,

42:33

handle a situation, not care about

42:35

politics or partisanship, not care

42:37

about what a person on the other end of the

42:39

phone has said about him. First

42:42

answer, always, how do I help you? What can I

42:44

do? And then speaking to the American

42:46

people, standing up with empathy, being there for them and

42:48

then leading to get something done. That

42:51

is the guy who should lead this country. That

42:53

is the person and the reason I am doing

42:55

what I'm doing. That is the person I see

42:57

day in and day out. And that is who

43:00

we must have. We are here today not because

43:03

he's just the Democrat on the other side of Donald

43:05

Trump. It is because of Joe Biden. The stuff he

43:07

has done and his leadership is unique to him. And

43:09

that is the story we as a campaign have to

43:12

keep telling. So that's a great,

43:14

I mean, that's a, I'm not

43:16

being in any way glib in the space of what

43:18

I say this. It's a great story. I

43:20

mean, it's a great story. It's

43:22

an anecdote, as you said, and it's a compelling

43:24

anecdote, right? It's a

43:27

long anecdote in the sense that. It's

43:29

a podcast. No, no, no, no, no. But

43:31

I'm making the point about the way that voters.

43:33

Sure, yeah. Unfortunately absorb information. So this is a

43:35

challenge that you face, right? A story like that.

43:38

I'm happy you could sit here all day and tell stories

43:41

like that. I'm not, I'm not trying to shut you

43:43

down. I'm saying the challenge, and again, you're not

43:45

a comms person. That's not your job. It's

43:47

a challenge of a bright young man and

43:50

women who are tough, the women all tougher than

43:52

the men, by the way, as far as I

43:54

know, who do a great, who do

43:56

that, right? Try to put out fires. But the reality is,

43:59

you know, I go. on TikTok, not

44:01

often, but only to see what the

44:03

politics of it is. Man, it's brutal,

44:05

brutal, brutal environment for Joe Biden. I

44:08

go on, you know, type in

44:10

this, dude, every day there's some video

44:13

of Joe Biden is frozen. Here's Joe

44:15

Biden. Some of them are deceptively edited. You

44:17

guys have called that out. Some of them

44:19

will be by the end of this campaign

44:21

will be totally, not cheap fakes, but will

44:23

be deep fakes. But they make,

44:25

you know, in a world that especially among people are

44:27

not tuned into politics and don't pay attention and don't

44:30

have any real idea of how to figure out what's

44:32

true and what's not. Those things

44:34

make an instant impression where the

44:36

story you just told compelling,

44:39

you know, heartfelt, but not

44:42

the way that that doesn't hit with people the way

44:45

that that that that the way that we consume

44:47

modern media does. How do you deal with that

44:49

for the people who haven't made up their minds

44:51

already? That sliver we were talking about before. How

44:54

do you confront an atmosphere of cheap

44:56

fakes, deep fakes, misinformation, disinformation, and even

44:58

just legit things that are just short

45:01

and in that moment don't

45:03

look great for Joe Biden. How do you deal with that

45:05

as in the environment we're going to be facing in the

45:07

next few months? Yeah, I mean,

45:09

look, obviously, I think, look,

45:12

fundamentally, Donald Trump has nothing of

45:15

optimism and hope to sell. So he's going

45:17

to weaponize, you know, fake photos and maximize

45:19

that. And, you know, that sucks, but that's

45:22

the deal. And we have to take that

45:24

seriously. We got to call it out when

45:26

we can. We have to

45:28

also flood the zone with Joe

45:30

Biden. And there are for every

45:33

long winded story that I tell,

45:35

there are short moments and opportunities

45:38

to capture that. I think, you know, as

45:40

I said, in 2020, our job was to

45:42

show more of him, his voice, his leadership,

45:44

him speaking. We are doing that now, but

45:47

also to show him engaging with people. You

45:49

know, we had him sitting at a kitchen

45:51

table in North Carolina. You

45:53

know, we didn't do any big fanfare

45:55

with a father who had one hundred

45:58

and twenty five thousand. of student

46:00

debt relieved and his two sons that were there at

46:02

the table and one of the kids, you know, was

46:05

like doing sneaky TikTok and was like, oh

46:07

my God, the beast is in my driveway

46:10

and whatever. Like, so that's part of it.

46:12

But fundamentally, the only answer to this is

46:14

Joe Biden and to do more and more

46:17

of Joe Biden. So when people see those

46:19

fake things, we call them

46:21

out, they know, they believe, they understand

46:23

that that is actually being weaponized because

46:25

Donald Trump's got nothing else to say.

46:28

And then Joe Biden is leading and we have to do

46:30

more and more to tell that stories people are paying attention.

46:32

The one other thing I'd add, though, you

46:36

don't have to make up an

46:38

ad or a story or some

46:40

fake fucking photo to see exactly

46:43

what's in front of the American people with

46:45

what Donald Trump's saying. And we really see

46:48

as part of our campaign that we have

46:50

to do that too, because we are not

46:52

getting the coverage, as I said before, and

46:54

I think you've talked about before, you know,

46:56

Donald Trump is speaking for two hours at

46:59

these events. We are used, if you

47:01

go to any of our channels, you see a lot of

47:03

that too, because we think that is really important and we

47:05

don't have to make that up. And that fundamentally

47:07

is also part of this. In contrast, there is

47:09

one choice. It is Joe Biden and Donald Trump.

47:11

It is not an abstract. It is real. And

47:14

the two of them head to head, Joe Biden

47:16

will always come out on top. And the thing that

47:18

happened in Vegas that day that was even worse than the

47:20

shark story, that kind of little look at coverage was the

47:22

fact that no one leads with the

47:24

man just called the January 6th insurrectionist.

47:26

He called them, he calls them, Patriots

47:28

and. Patriots warriors.

47:30

They got set up. All

47:33

the rest of it. That should be the lead of every story always when

47:35

he does it, because he does all the time. Horrifying.

47:38

All right. So this

47:41

is my last question. And this

47:43

is a question where I'm going to ask you for help

47:45

again. I can ask

47:47

this question all the time and I

47:49

have an answer for it. And I have an, and I, you

47:52

know, I believe Joe Biden is the nominee today. They have

47:54

the presumptive nominees, the president, obviously also, but he's going to

47:56

be the nominee all the way through to election day. I

47:59

got asked by Democrats. all the time. You know,

48:04

how do you know? Maybe he'll decide he's not

48:06

up to it. Maybe there will be

48:08

some, there'll be an open, somehow he'll be a challenge

48:10

at the convention. And I try to explain why

48:13

they should, whether they like it or not,

48:15

they should get used to the notion that Joe

48:18

Biden is their nominee. When people

48:20

ask you this question, you know, when people, is

48:22

there any chance that Biden will

48:24

either step aside or will be replaced? What

48:27

do you say to them and try to

48:29

convince them that the answer is no, and

48:32

that that's a good thing? Well,

48:34

the first thing I will say is that Joe

48:36

Biden is going to win, period.

48:40

And I'm not saying that because I wish it to be

48:42

so. I'm saying that because I know it

48:44

will be so by who he is as a leader and

48:47

what we are building as a campaign to amplify

48:49

that. I also know

48:51

that he is the only person

48:53

who has beaten Donald Trump. And

48:56

we are here with the kind of administration

48:58

and rebound of this country, the economic numbers.

49:00

We have a long way to go. Prices

49:02

are too high. But Joe

49:04

Biden is going to fight for you. He's going to be

49:06

the only person that will fight for you versus Donald

49:08

Trump. And it is unique to his leadership and who

49:10

he is. Joe Biden is the

49:13

only answer to defeat Donald Trump before and

49:15

today. And he is going to show,

49:18

as he has every single time, that

49:20

he is the best leader for this country,

49:22

that he can do this job because he's

49:24

done it every day. And we're going to

49:26

create opportunities and moments for people to see

49:28

that clearly. It's okay for people to be

49:30

worried because we understand the stakes.

49:33

But now is the time to be clear

49:35

about the choice. There is just one choice.

49:38

It is Joe Biden or Donald Trump.

49:40

And anyone that does anything but vote

49:42

for Joe Biden is supporting Donald Trump.

49:45

Okay. I said that that was my last question,

49:47

but I actually have one more, but it's a

49:50

quickie. I promise. Here it

49:52

is. Can you say what

49:54

the campaign's message is in three sentences or

49:56

less? Sure.

49:58

I mean, look at the end of the day. Joe

50:00

Biden is fighting

50:03

for the American people and Donald Trump

50:05

is only in it for himself. Joe

50:07

Biden is lowering costs, he's protecting us

50:10

and our freedoms and he is focused

50:12

on protecting democracy. He is creating opportunity

50:14

for people in this country and

50:17

there is a lot more work to do and his vision for

50:19

2024 is one

50:22

that's going to help the American people and build on

50:24

what he's been doing in the last

50:26

2020. In contrast to Donald Trump who is only

50:28

out for himself and out for people

50:30

like him who is not going to let anything stand in

50:32

the way of taking care of himself. I know that was

50:35

longer, you've already stipulated. That was more than three

50:37

sentences but I will say this you know so

50:39

Democrats say they don't have a message that's a

50:41

message I heard a message there. And you've

50:43

already stipulated several times I'm not a comms person

50:45

thank you very much so you know. But you're

50:48

a accomplished,

50:50

accomplished, compelling and you're in

50:52

charge. We

50:55

got a few profanities out of her. Thank you for taking the

50:57

time and and I you

50:59

know I

51:01

think people just need to relax. Yeah we're

51:04

gonna win. I don't mean relax I mean the stakes

51:06

are high no one should relax. It's the urgent,

51:08

we're in a national emergency here but on some

51:10

level the bed weddings a bit much. Can

51:12

I just say one thing to that since I know we're

51:14

done but we

51:17

are gonna win but it's it is

51:19

because the people of this country take

51:21

action and take action now for every

51:23

single person that is worried

51:26

and bedwetting go do

51:28

something about it get a yard sign

51:30

go on Facebook and say you support

51:32

Joe Biden go do your own fucking

51:35

tiktoks. That is what we

51:37

need now we need people to take whatever

51:39

worry they have for what's happening in this country

51:41

and do something about it and we don't need

51:43

to be told exactly how show that

51:46

you understand what the stakes are and that you

51:48

want to be a part of building this country

51:50

for all of us moving forward and be vocal

51:52

about it now we're not waiting to the fall

51:54

the work is now the voices of the American

51:57

people need to be heard now this debate is

51:59

going to help. and put that into clarity that

52:01

there is one choice. And every single person that's

52:03

a bedwetting, hates to use that phrase, thanks for

52:05

putting that back in my head, so I just

52:07

said it. But take

52:09

action, do something. You have power, take

52:12

it. She

52:14

just stuck the landing right there. She just stuck the

52:16

landing. Mine is the bedwink. She just stuck the landing.

52:19

Mine's the bedwink. Um, thank you. Thank you. In

52:28

Politic with John Heilman is a Puck podcast in partnership

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52:46

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