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everyone john how many are welcome to hell and high water

0:49

my podcast with a recount about politics and culture

0:51

on the edge of armageddon for the biggest

0:53

my power reserve presiding

0:55

genius behind set of who tang clan and the producer

0:57

of our job the music and we are back here again

1:00

today as ever with the culprit her

1:02

on her watercress wednesday grace the always

1:04

by to see you and i wonder i've been thinking

1:06

about you a lot in the wake of last week's

1:08

one six committee hearing and prime time it's like

1:10

the end of season one we reached

1:12

it and i ask you as a

1:15

representative of your generation to the reasons

1:17

he is advised reason of siskel and

1:19

ebert we writer who they are sums up or thumbs

1:21

down as down as thumbs up or thumbs

1:23

down

1:24

they are and we're getting a big

1:26

sums up and i thought i would be sought

1:28

you're giving a big thumbs down as

1:31

my favorite news letter writer hunter

1:33

sad this one bravo

1:35

produce reality television

1:37

baby every day

1:39

it was riveting

1:41

they close it off i'm

1:43

sure about a high note they could

1:45

possibly it carried out

1:49

there's also i say they had shifted my

1:51

friend dampers goto who was working on the tv

1:53

side of that allah is my school i believe

1:55

made the josh holly thing happen i have a yet confirmed

1:57

that with damn down as a plea was behind that the

2:00

white prancing josh holloway is now one

2:02

of my favorite things in the world i'm really have a

2:04

big with big when are at war yes the

2:06

whole show ends with a cliffhanger and we're all kind of wondering

2:09

what the department justice america ireland

2:11

are gonna do are they gonna die donald trump another

2:13

cliffhanger is down trump gonna run again for

2:15

president release announced that he's running again for president

2:18

and to take us through all of that this

2:20

week we have my french ah the miracle

2:22

the last bureau chief for politico the host of way

2:24

too early on msnbc which grace

2:26

i now given some of your tendencies

2:28

propensities for staying out all night not

2:30

doing the wrong but like at like library in our

2:33

reading dusty at school gibbons

2:35

the decline of ball of roman empire ball that kind of stuff

2:37

you come home it's about five

2:39

am and you're just like i need some cable

2:41

news and some then you watch lemaire right absolutely

2:44

watch first thing that clicks on events

2:46

up the slack from lots of hours

2:48

in the library as turn on msnbc

2:51

and watch sanctum up sanctum all of that

2:53

this

2:54

the bay area a new book coming out

2:57

very very excited and she

2:59

does his new book coming out actually just coming out

3:01

today the book is called the big lie election

3:04

chaos political opportunism in the

3:06

state of american politics after twenty twenties

3:08

people don't tweet tweet campaign books and people

3:11

have done one six bucks this book isn't

3:13

really that it's really more both

3:15

backward looking him or forward looking backward looking

3:17

in that it's kind of a history of the idea

3:20

how the big why took root long before

3:22

the twenty two a campaign stop in traces back to twenty

3:24

sixteen and then spitting it

3:26

forward how after the insurrection

3:29

it's received american politics

3:31

and start the kind of says here's what

3:33

the big why is also done because of

3:35

all this kind of raising the stakes

3:37

on merrick garland decision at the

3:39

d o j that i was talking about second to go here's what he says

3:41

about this because he data we talked

3:43

about the stakes for these just a little bit inside reporting

3:46

from his work at the white house on what

3:48

the by demonstration is thinking they're very

3:50

close lift about it as he says but he is a hint

3:53

of what they really would like to see happen at

3:55

the dhl it's wasn't a that the wales

3:57

is so careful to avoid

3:59

the

4:02

no they believe trump did so repeatedly

4:05

as they feel like to say cannot do

4:07

the same that is are separate sacred

4:09

institution privately

4:13

yes that the resistance in the upper

4:15

surface of like world an actual how

4:19

the believe that donald trump is an existential

4:21

threat to the nation what he did on january

4:23

six those

4:25

the managers who some news

4:27

there boy not surprising and away but

4:29

i guess that's the kind of the question right now we

4:31

know these committee hearings were for history we had

4:34

to get to the bottom of what happened and lay it all out

4:36

for the sake of future generations and all that

4:38

but ask you grace are you one

4:40

of those people who thinks he a third no criminal charges

4:42

the come out of this thing it's all been all big fat fucking

4:45

wasted time

4:46

now i don't think it would be away

4:47

that good television has never waste of

4:49

time but

4:51

they expected and hope

4:53

for outcome that would you gotta

4:55

criminal indictment

4:56

for sure well that happen

4:58

i don't know at the in the past

5:00

six years or however long since donald

5:02

trump took office the good guys jumped

5:05

when very often thing

5:07

is part of

5:08

where such a job at and dark

5:10

and society right now so am

5:12

i spotting smell carlin's

5:14

of all people who's been very quiet

5:16

and very careful and the

5:18

happening but i would love to be proved wrong

5:21

you know what bad decisions go shape lot of things in

5:23

some of the realities of american politics we talked

5:25

about on the podcast with a mere to date everything

5:27

from joe biden zone decision about whether to run

5:30

again into a twenty four that he's facing the midterms

5:32

coming up gavin nuisance white house ambitions

5:35

that are increasingly evident in terms of how

5:37

behaving phrases like allows know

5:40

a guy that's not gavin nuisance

5:42

and whether you know rhonda santas would

5:45

have would have against donald trump would he be

5:47

sounds rubber would he get crushed by down from like a bible

5:49

a mere has views about that it's all

5:51

here it's all here on this podcast on also some

5:54

discussions of both the boston red sox and you to

5:56

and you might wonder how it's possible that

5:58

all those things can fit into one

5:59

just but if you really wondering that you're

6:02

probably not familiar enough with the

6:04

line

6:15

i would like to begin by addressing the

6:18

heinous attacks yesterday and

6:21

, those who broke the law law

6:23

will you you do not represent

6:26

our movement you do not represent do

6:28

country and if you broke the law

6:32

says law new i

6:34

already said you okay with this

6:36

election is now of congress

6:38

is certified the results are now ones

6:41

said elections are they just one st thomas'

6:45

set aside themselves with us and elections

6:47

over

6:59

are like to begin by addressing the heinous

7:01

attack yesterday yesterday

7:03

as our words

7:05

this is a hard work for him shuttle in there is

7:07

that because of it's a big it has multiple syllables

7:09

it it or because of the emotional

7:11

resonance their style trump at those outtakes

7:13

from his january seven speech there are played in

7:16

the finals primetime one six

7:18

committee hearings that's what that was but

7:20

yesterday's a hard day for him why is that why you think that was

7:23

when yesterday's january sex and that

7:25

becomes the legacy of your presidency is

7:27

there probably is a second meaning to it but

7:29

job you just play their i mean the hearing

7:31

last night and i know we're going to get into it was so compelling

7:34

some he was sonic chilling revelations but

7:36

i'd argue with you just play was the biggest

7:39

take away as it showed trump's

7:41

refusal to truly condemn

7:43

the riders the cap of it as those were his

7:46

people and he knew he would beat them again down

7:48

the road but secondly his

7:50

unwillingness to accept that he lost he would not

7:52

said the election is over he still hasn't

7:54

said the election is over to this day is not

7:56

conceded and that fuels

7:58

everything he's done it

7:59

it's way to and will be on

8:01

the you're one of the great from biologists near here

8:04

as much of anything i'll also friend take god

8:06

out of gonna pick do that show you do in the morning i know

8:08

that thing as it takes place is an hour they might

8:10

like to see once a day of yeah five

8:12

is a pm time for me neither am types

8:14

receipt of the the morning sometimes he wrote this book

8:17

the big lie election chaos political opportunism

8:19

in the state of america politics after twenty twenties

8:21

which were husband was i'm on today but as

8:23

a term biologists to someone who pays much attention

8:25

to him do you think in that moment these

8:28

all the things you didn't wanna say how

8:30

much of that you think is just

8:32

him he's got that got kind of cyril

8:35

instinct and he notes or stands at his power derives

8:37

from his connection to his people he has one

8:39

ever do anything that alienates them or could

8:41

separate him from them but how much do you think in

8:43

that moment on january seventy was thinking

8:46

i might run again and if i run again

8:49

it's gonna be driven by the notion that it was

8:51

stolen for me and so i can't ever say anything

8:53

that compromises that the first

8:55

isles of scilly sand glad to be your thanks for

8:57

having me on i think that in terms of

9:00

trump first was your first my strategy

9:02

would never ever will

9:04

the damn pieces of his base their

9:06

everything to him all his policies all was politics

9:08

aimed at that same thirty two

9:10

thirty three thirty five percent of

9:13

the electorate and that's what that moment

9:15

in the first gen actually debate he wouldn't condemn

9:17

the proud boys because he knew the the best

9:19

he we told them back and stand

9:21

by they were his people they voted

9:23

for him

9:24

that's what field his refusal to condemn

9:27

the people in charlottesville these were white

9:29

supremacist but he knew they were

9:31

his people so therefore he assign blame on

9:33

both sides of that class that

9:36

day that speech he gave her january seventh

9:39

from the white house was one he didn't want to gifts

9:41

but he was pushed into it because he was hearing

9:43

from his daughter ivanka trump's but

9:45

also his allies in certain

9:47

circles including committee laid out sean

9:50

hannity who tested the white house press secretary kerry

9:52

magnate correctly say at

9:54

that moment there was real momentum for the twenty

9:56

fifth amendment which could have removed him from office

9:58

have members are resigning

9:59

there was talk that they could indeed with

10:02

the vice president's help maybe pull

10:04

trump out of his job now parents put

10:06

a stop to that soon enough but

10:08

at that moment trump was concerned

10:11

that he might be forced out and his concern

10:13

about that just as it was about it acquitted

10:16

in his subsequent impeachment trial the took

10:18

place in february

10:19

if he had been divorced and he wouldn't be

10:21

able to run again so it's not that he was

10:23

in that moment committed to twice my fourth

10:25

but it was at least for people i've talked to ratify it

10:28

was at least on the radar was cheney and i believe

10:30

sherman thompson said that there's going to be mere hearings

10:32

now and that they feel like the dam is either broken

10:35

or just about to break and they're like i stop by

10:37

in this in this an end of a kind

10:40

trades the people who work on the television side of beer

10:42

and seen are talking about season two are really get

10:44

renewed for season two because that's to how they've seen

10:46

us to the great benefit the committee they took

10:48

the television the storytelling aspects of it

10:50

very seriously that curious

10:52

by you be if they were deprived do

10:55

you think that they paid it off there's a

10:57

lot of very strong stuff and hearing i'm not been critical

10:59

eye to get an incredible job every

11:01

other one of the hearings had a big news pop

11:03

or people will do it didn't feel

11:06

like i was true in this last one

11:08

and they were in primetime so

11:10

you could argue that they were trying to a summation of kinds

11:12

right arm pilots and i buy wonder how you compare

11:14

that during to the other six

11:16

the i did the tv and algeria it

11:18

did feel a little bit like a clip show that it was sort of greatest

11:21

hits because we've known for a while what

11:23

trump did that day there's been reporting

11:25

from my colleagues and myself as

11:28

well as accounts from republican

11:30

senators who gonna fold why has a the president

11:32

himself they knew the for those hundred eighty

11:34

seven minutes he was in that private dining room off

11:36

the oval office watching on television we been

11:38

talking about that for a while now had a

11:40

little extra impact that with her they a straight from

11:43

his own staffers who were saying yes

11:45

to present was watching television the one

11:47

new details that i picked up with simply be

11:49

accounts

11:50

the secret service agents surrounding

11:53

the vice president how alarms

11:55

a war for their safety of the safety

11:57

of their protect the that they were concerned

11:59

right riders

11:59

that few feet away that now i was packed

12:02

his life in danger but so was around

12:04

and they were even calling your colleagues said

12:07

pass on messages to their loved ones and case

12:09

they never saw them again flowers a chilling

12:11

detail but you're right there was no big reveal

12:14

that said it didn't have a sense of a season

12:16

finale were wrapped up

12:18

they would seen so far

12:20

there we will get a couple others it sounds like

12:22

probably tied to the release of the with work the committee's

12:24

gonna put out

12:25

this is about messaging and it really

12:27

felt like it was putting all one place their

12:30

case and they're hoping to do to that's

12:32

politically weekend all trump and polls suggest

12:34

has happened at least a little but also

12:37

presented to department justice and say a treasure

12:39

my girl and her young men our gets you for the

12:41

weeds or not service but it's

12:43

worth raising because it is to the news this week and and

12:45

art friend's brother just compromised on the warpath

12:47

about this i think rightly so the notion message

12:49

that he said that is outside forcefully and

12:51

i get on with him you know i me i find it amazing

12:54

because of the thing you just pointed to the summer the secret

12:56

service radio traffic and some things that and

12:58

in anonymised national security

13:01

official from inside the white house sad

13:03

about what was being said you realize those text messages

13:05

would have been like sleep ninety three text messages there will

13:07

be text messages from some service agents who

13:09

are texting their wives to say

13:12

i might not get out of this alive but

13:14

it opened the door is that cakes are you imagine

13:16

what it is that the secret service deleted

13:18

when they deleted all those text messages and there's

13:20

this compounding scandal because of the road

13:23

dhs it other things where do you think that goes

13:25

amid you think there's ever going to be accountability to the

13:27

service on this of i know people on

13:29

the left who had started when

13:32

i thought were semi paranoid conspiracy theories

13:34

about the military or law enforcement

13:36

or the service all being in trump's pocket and

13:38

that a memory came to an armed cool that the

13:40

a sleeper cells all over the place but this is

13:42

the causing a makes you go yeah

13:44

i don't know if i go that far but that's it's

13:47

pretty sinister immediately

13:49

take a pause we reported a colleagues

13:51

have done as well there's certainly some

13:54

pro trump sympathies in the secret service

13:56

and some of those agents still on duty

13:59

which has alarmed

13:59

i'm people close to president biden here no

14:02

one suggesting that they would ever do anything

14:04

but it's it's right so eyebrows but

14:06

their behavior around january six

14:08

it is inexcusable in the were cover up this one

14:10

that's the message you're in washington repeatedly

14:12

this week the timeline is clear there

14:15

is a phone data migration find

14:17

that sets the in a january those ages were repeatedly

14:20

want to preserve the records all

14:22

federal government voice actor preserve the records

14:24

it's the law even on a routine day

14:26

and nothing about january two thousand for says was

14:29

a regime day and they of course despite

14:31

even and days after i believe

14:34

the insurrection to rational investigator

14:36

said hate make sure you keep others text messages

14:38

yeah we're i will look at those it had

14:40

a player from that the day immigration

14:43

happened anyway at this point they do believe

14:45

of us you're gone forever they're still exhausting

14:47

our means are trying to find them they're not hopeful

14:50

i think they're very pressure here on

14:52

demonstration to hold the current dhs

14:55

accountable

14:56

that there were that's go on the actors reviews that

14:58

and commission's congress wants investigation

15:00

is possible few heads will roll on this

15:03

but we're probably never gonna get to know exactly

15:05

what we're in the streets which is much different

15:07

panic agents worried about their safety

15:09

but also to describe the

15:12

situation rabbis present tense but also for spring

15:14

president trump who we know was for running

15:16

his own tail to try gets the capital

15:18

and then his agents course but also be able to provide

15:20

a cast of what president was doing when she got back

15:22

to the last year it defies logic

15:24

common sense and anything that you are i

15:27

know about politics from our combines

15:29

nine thousand years of doing this that the secret

15:31

service get rid of these text messages by accident

15:34

and that there wasn't someone somewhere who

15:36

was like their shit here we don't want people see

15:38

the service is a weird seeing and services

15:40

are sometimes the source of some dmz personal

15:42

weeks about bill clinton there's always been more of a conservative

15:45

as are generally has been law enforcement over the years

15:47

or more conservative bias and and is clear that some

15:49

of those agents at least are full on

15:51

mega so i want same i notice

15:53

a sound off from the hearing related to this

15:56

unnamed national security advisor inside the white house

15:58

describing

15:59

in

15:59

interview with the committee what the view

16:02

was his view and others in the white

16:04

house when they learned that trump wanted

16:06

to really go to the capital and lead the

16:08

people that is rally lead them up there become

16:11

part in some way of the insurrection and

16:13

i thought this was really striking because

16:15

of the language that this official used

16:17

and what it's potential political and

16:19

legal implications may be so it's take a listener

16:21

that be completely honest love

16:24

you all and says

16:56

the only about

16:58

able to the capital go at

17:00

it that was that look around specify

17:03

yes sufficient grad for alarm no question

17:05

about it and just to hear someone from inside the white

17:07

house using the word insurrection and coup in

17:10

striking here's my question you

17:12

said maybe the committee we've got more

17:14

hearing is there saga new desk at work but probably

17:16

the balkan their work is done the now

17:19

the the action goes to the department of justice and

17:21

one is merrick garland do their to statutes

17:23

that was union other site as potential things

17:25

that trump can be charged criminally what's the obstructive

17:28

congress charge and the seditious

17:30

conspiracy charge hearing someone

17:32

say from inside the white house say

17:35

that him wanting to march the capital suggested

17:37

to him that this was an anti democratic

17:40

the cool insurrection or whatever that's one

17:42

thing enter weissman big time former

17:45

federal lawyer was on tv last night saying

17:47

really powerful politically but not at

17:49

all legally meaningful that

17:51

what you need to get at

17:54

the question of the dishes conspiracy

17:56

is you have to be able to prove beyond reasonable

17:58

doubt the donald trump at every reason

18:00

to think that what he was doing would lead to violence and that

18:02

was try to actually been an active way provoke

18:05

violence in that way and that the secondhand

18:07

testimony of some guy in the white house again powerful

18:09

clip but not meaningful to the

18:11

question of can you charge him and

18:13

so my question to you chocolate is in

18:15

all the reporting you've done what do you

18:17

know in what do you think about

18:20

our fertile the ground is going to be for the d o

18:22

j if it goes in this direction in terms of finding

18:25

either by the listing of privilege and people

18:27

actually telling the world what trump was saying

18:29

that day

18:30

or

18:31

the further investigation that ties

18:33

him more directly to the proud boys to

18:35

the as keepers to the actual groups or committing

18:38

the pilots would you think and know about

18:41

that area of inquiry because that's at the core

18:43

of the biggest charged the can be brought against him oh

18:45

there's nothing dance half rebels

18:47

force

18:51

usually he wants that to be interview on

18:53

fox is that this case he relished

18:55

his people were actually asked fight

18:58

for him until capital ,

19:00

know know that

19:03

crap angeles may have weapons rather

19:17

than just as ,

19:20

as a different matter within your favorite original mark

19:22

rylance couple days ago asked about this

19:24

showed were passion and or more and

19:26

to the on this issue than as a force base chiding

19:29

eisner say looked just as

19:31

takes time we're worse slightest

19:34

oh slope slope no one

19:36

was above the above the city

19:42

you will know soon

19:44

enough

19:47

wondering why

19:59

prosecutor but it would be a

20:02

tricky political calculation what

20:04

would be the impact that even if you have stated

20:06

that no one is above the last movie the impact

20:08

of charges or united states

20:11

across an that same person

20:14

right now leading contender

20:16

to be the nominee of his party for the next

20:18

election to that last part

20:20

fourths also use trump's

20:22

desire to announce jealousy sooner

20:25

than anyone the republican party with one of the knew there

20:27

was are op ed this week or things

20:29

by richard bend the knee stages or the former

20:32

where's in the watergate committee was it's

20:34

basically been very respectful the car with and saying

20:36

you should be careful this careful this big deal

20:38

merrick but the clock is ticking

20:41

you have six months basically gotta get together

20:43

here and there are people in the world that i know we

20:46

know that recommend these to has lot of friends and the by demonstration

20:48

who thought that that op ed was basically

20:51

a cut out for if not your by

20:53

himself than a lot of senior white house people who

20:55

are as attitude is they're trying to send a message to garland

20:57

maybe not the know directly using

20:59

him as a megaphone but kind of that that reflects

21:02

the view is that your sense i'm first will i did

21:04

you think i sense although in a bind himself and second

21:06

ball that your sense that there is consensus

21:08

in the upper levels of the white house right

21:11

now that

21:12

the minimum the are just take this up

21:14

where we can be the grand jury and see if there's enough

21:16

their to get indictment the

21:18

, as is so careful to

21:20

avoid the appearance of airframes of artists

21:23

out there of did so he

21:25

did late as they feel like they

21:28

cannot do this is a separate secrets

21:30

to

21:34

privately yes that the resistance

21:36

an upper surface five world and

21:40

the believe that donald trump is an existential

21:42

threat to the nation would he do on january

21:44

six does deserve to

21:47

receive approval charge that they're well aware

21:49

of what that would ,

21:51

a strike twice as much

21:54

or trump still has trump still of people who really

21:56

like and it would be

21:58

perceived fairly or

22:04

the haven't i think that people

22:06

that i've talked to still think it's more

22:08

unlikely that not did all things

22:10

will happen in shortage of leads trump

22:13

will eventually be charged doors open

22:15

to it more today than it ever

22:17

has been because of the average german

22:19

video course but also people saw

22:21

that op ed also people really

22:24

saw garland comments this week which were

22:26

striking thompson internal and one

22:28

more saw to play from the hearing and that

22:30

was cheney who you always have to come back to cuss

22:32

out your when he may says without was cheney's

22:35

almost none of this as possible and a bunch

22:37

democrats they're already smart

22:39

whenever it a this didn't have wished any

22:41

primarily adam consider the a likely

22:43

i will have the kind of impact it has whatever that is

22:45

being would be much smaller here's was tenure this

22:47

a part of are closing remarks from

22:49

the into this hearing where she

22:52

puts a very fine point on things are like downtown

22:54

in are hearing tonight you saw an american

22:57

president

22:58

faced with a start an unmistakable

23:01

choice between right and wrong

23:04

there was no ambiguity know

23:06

nuance

23:07

donald trump made a purposeful choice

23:10

to violate his oath of office

23:13

you ignore the on

23:15

going violence against law enforcement

23:18

the threaten our constitutional order

23:21

there's no way to excuse that behavior

23:24

it was indefensible in

23:26

every american must consider

23:28

this

23:30

a president who is willing to make the

23:32

choices donald trump me

23:34

during the violence of january

23:36

six ever be trusted

23:38

with any position of authority

23:41

in our great nation again

23:43

the that is a big question she out as

23:45

he believes the answer that question is fucking

23:47

now and i would save many people agree

23:49

with arden all democrats in some

23:51

people were not argue or democrats but

23:54

you know as you right in this book

23:56

the why

23:57

like in chaos political opportunity elizabeth

24:00

that american politics after twenty twenty read discuss

24:02

the orange later you talked about the

24:04

censure of liz cheney and adam can

24:06

zinger by the republican party

24:09

dad and us i'll order that are a siberian

24:11

like february this year hype sleep right

24:13

so we can be in agreement that

24:15

these hearings had been different and better

24:17

and more effective than a lot of congressional

24:19

hearings are oh and that's all been kind of chopped up

24:21

over the course last month an app using

24:23

least cheney is it any better place

24:26

relative to the republican party

24:28

as the result of this or his

24:31

republican party still basically that they had

24:33

to do it again tomorrow there with censure her for being

24:35

against little troubling and calling a spade a spade

24:37

on this question as you move the needle or herself

24:40

in terms of relationship to

24:44

this , of tourists that same

24:46

february thirteenth

24:49

century they also

24:53

had a it's also january

24:55

six was

24:58

therefore how define what happened

25:03

and what is your answer seton

25:07

hall xena conversations we have

25:10

they wanted the

25:13

week to this point do not appear less deliberate

25:16

that he is still even if he's just replace

25:18

drop a little at it hurts amount of he's

25:21

so far along the favorite toy

25:24

any be more hopkins least willing to sit

25:27

are taking him on as

25:31

, right even if from where it's it's

25:34

says florida another who at least we'll consider

25:36

we'll or steps it

25:39

half against

25:41

trump but i think the republican party

25:43

even if there are more voices

25:45

in there were which trump wouldn't

25:48

run again or the very least not

25:50

the was least they're

25:52

largely remained he still

25:54

powerhouse he still has to face he still

25:57

is most popular revolt it

25:59

still

26:00

his party even if obama comes where's

26:02

the party

26:06

certainly those as a few a heritage

26:08

mantle or hearing largely what

26:11

rally in his

26:14

faithful and as for cheney and least for

26:16

now polling shows she's you

26:18

get blown out a republican primary so

26:20

she is someone who perhaps about

26:22

her own twenty twenty four presidential

26:24

bid that's the rumor to as a different type of

26:26

republican least right now for vote on

26:28

her own seats in jeopardy and there's a real chances

26:31

are the worst , series

26:34

series to sure to whale

26:37

man i mean that know this is over

26:39

might be a good idea to grind out there i forget with the do

26:41

a primary has been like an amazing

26:44

thing you know this an amazing this for the right reason

26:46

i know smoky president states and so

26:48

if you're going to take this on for the right reasons which

26:50

is that you're trying to save the country and trying to get rid of donald

26:52

trump she's a political animal to secure

26:54

dad and she still thinks she has a future

26:57

this will matches it could be a go be a lobbyist if

26:59

she loses she was going to be trying to figure out a way to get

27:01

back into power is your view

27:03

that as you think about her that what she thinks is that

27:06

the only way for it to work for her

27:08

that if she can somehow get the republican party

27:11

to be like it used to be which is that you know

27:13

in her mind your dad's mine up a respectable

27:15

a democratic institutions this the

27:17

only path the only path back for her to have

27:19

power again is for the party

27:21

to somehow get broken trump to be purged

27:24

and then maybe you can rebuild it or do you think

27:26

she actually thinks there's some third pass or she

27:28

could go out and become like an independent or something because

27:30

she's gonna lot of love from lot of liberals which i think

27:32

if she thought that

27:35

while a liberal term for the jerry's

27:38

secure it is no love for the rest for

27:40

have voting record otherwise which was largely

27:42

supported donald trump's attitude and

27:44

who's trump to she's been smashed opponents

27:47

of just about anything the by ministration

27:49

their breasts are trying to do she's

27:52

a good level but it does seem to be a little more principal

27:54

sensors she does the li

27:59

that she needs her party to

28:02

go back to what used to be for her to have a refrigerator

28:04

so these ideas are intertwined i

28:06

think it's clear access to

28:09

books stress that yes

28:11

that is what suing her but she also knows

28:13

to pass to do george purged

28:16

from the party for her to have any real chance there

28:18

right now with that proprietor that proprietor

28:20

in august she's down

28:24

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28:29

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28:34

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com

29:28

welcome back to hell no one

29:32

or a good step back now and get a little more

29:34

into this great and magical

29:37

new book i pull up your again tourists

29:40

who come a long way but i'm here and now here you

29:42

are author of the big why watching chaos political

29:44

opportunism and the state american politics after twenty twenties

29:47

used to be just a humble daily news

29:49

tabloid scribe the next the you know you're

29:52

tapping amount for the associated press and all of

29:54

a sudden iraq big time big time limits

29:56

so here's our play it practice book

29:58

open you ever wonder where did this

30:00

big why thing start you've got it right there

30:02

the prologue you tell the story about being on

30:04

the campaign trail covering trump for this as a press

30:06

in twenty sixteen as you describe is a sleepy

30:09

august day in ohio

30:11

in columbus order to play donald trump

30:13

finding the first seeds of what would become the big

30:15

lie

30:17

we got almost fourteen

30:19

million votes

30:21

that more

30:22

that any body

30:24

the history of republican

30:26

primers and remember this i

30:28

had seventeen people i

30:30

didn't i wasn't running just two people and seventeen

30:34

hillary when i got a similar number to hillary clinton

30:36

as he had bernie has yet a hard time putting

30:38

money away and bernie

30:40

lovers feel of so upset

30:43

you know what he made a mistake

30:47

a made a deal sometimes his

30:49

he lost the last first was rigged

30:52

and i'm afraid the elections going to be rigged i have

30:54

to be honest

30:55

there was i know you lead with it in

30:57

your piece navy would you heard him say

30:59

i did you say holy fuck like with what it dot will

31:01

try to say guy was a thunderbolt

31:04

a it was it was a noon rally it

31:06

was reasonably , attended

31:08

the hardly a huge crowd monday

31:10

afternoon in columbus ohio ohio

31:14

a day not sure what this leave would leave

31:16

heard that really started reaching out to reaching

31:18

other as of wait a minute he

31:21

wait a that he had three

31:23

iowa caucus floated the idea

31:25

that the rnc it's had cruise or gang

31:27

up on the dallas poor sportsmanship

31:30

this was different this was his say that

31:32

different most sacred democratic say balance

31:35

the election was sacred we

31:39

had never been there was a

31:42

what it was the one he said was

31:44

the he bought upset when you're he afterwards

31:47

he mentioned as again on the plane private

31:49

plane for someone to complaints

31:52

later that on he repeated again

31:54

a rally later that night wars your

31:57

pizzas again some headaches and

32:00

you can do a lot of his rallies to you see how

32:02

he road test scripts he says it

32:04

uses these rallies to test that attacks also

32:06

comedian try out new material and

32:09

this one as you read my clip didn't really

32:11

generate much for reaction in ohio but

32:13

it eventually did work talked about it the

32:15

more he is this people and ,

32:18

it's allies were parity to have to fact

32:21

i uncovered old roger stone interview around

32:24

that time where he talks about how trump should just declare

32:26

victory even if he loses and basically

32:29

creating a playbook that he would use for years

32:31

later still need to say well we don't

32:33

win that

32:36

moment began to be lot does

32:39

a few months later in general election debates is

32:41

also where he said of against and also for

32:43

the first time said he wouldn't necessarily

32:45

can see now he won that election course but

32:48

the seeds of the plant

32:50

it's interesting right give you read the been live the great

32:52

thing about a lot of context few follow is like the birth

32:54

of an idea is like the birth of the worst

32:56

idea ever is really what this as i mean it's a trump

32:59

book but it's really about the story of the birth

33:01

of this idea this insidious

33:03

ultimately deeply poisonous

33:06

kind of idea that is still very much alive in

33:08

our politics and it goes back and walks you through the whole

33:10

evolution of it's we first blurted

33:12

this thing out it was right after republican convention what

33:15

if you remember that late july early august

33:18

he was like in the shudder at that point

33:20

there were story after story about how

33:22

lucky wasn't had i was always i was going to run him

33:24

over with the truck maggie haberman and you

33:27

with other people writing stories about how bad was

33:29

this is pre band the baron comes

33:31

in about a week after this rates that was

33:33

how desperate he was i think he birth this

33:35

idea of his desperation as much

33:37

anything else as you say like perks these ideas

33:40

up in then he comes back to them later it expands

33:42

of in the does various things everybody thought

33:44

of that moment even more than they didn't last couple weeks

33:46

the election is like she's gonna get

33:48

just steamrolled by hillary clinton but

33:50

then that little bit stuck and

33:52

he was arteries and yeah that's a base the right yeah

33:55

and part of it was the to praise excuse for

33:57

is that of a loss as he can read the pulse

33:59

again

33:59

yeah he was way down at that

34:02

moment things got worse before they got better a

34:04

man he rallied it's report himself into

34:06

the race a little bit and then of course was dealt a

34:08

blow from access hollywood and then

34:10

he started his counter offensive with that stuff

34:12

st louis which i was

34:15

in a couple hundred trump rallies

34:17

and so on that was still the

34:19

most stunning moment of that entire sweet

34:22

sixteen campaign and factors a photograph

34:24

me which likely not included in the book

34:26

of when they brought us in before

34:29

, second debate against st louis here's

34:31

your time of about no clues about bill clinton's

34:33

accuse yeah to the women over to this again recounted

34:35

in the boat would either brought it all birds or trump brought

34:37

out as oakland's female accusers from

34:39

his i prefer politics is checkered

34:42

past brought them all at a press conference

34:44

does about what ninety minutes before the debate

34:46

remembering it was neither that much when

34:48

he met specific and it was done as a surprise

34:51

say brought in the press school was i was

34:53

apart of at it until we're gonna see my

34:55

jaw dropped at me with my mouth

34:57

over with spent time but

35:00

that change the conversation

35:03

and the race stabilized of the next few weeks

35:05

than one call me again reviewing again

35:07

that was the first of my sister trump campaign

35:10

is there in there phosphorus some what is it

35:12

that made you decide to do the book i mean

35:14

i mean with you all the time he will talk about your career

35:16

in a minute he hosts to show at these ungodly

35:18

hour the morning you be had this big job at politico

35:21

you've got a kid your wife or top

35:23

all that what was that made you think a yeah reading

35:25

a book that's a good idea was i just like you said

35:27

no idea what you're getting into or the other two of you

35:29

have you figured out the cloning or like

35:31

space time continuum problem we have an extra day

35:33

in your week or something that i don't have i

35:36

, by data started about three such as

35:39

that it's force by share with share couple

35:42

of large our friends jamaica everyday

35:44

and then from there but there book it

35:46

certainly was challenged right we also deserve

35:48

our express deadline or to

35:56

the race so it was a lot

35:58

of work as a strawberry intense but i

36:00

thought this through the had to be told i want to

36:02

write another trump the

36:04

, of this live his life which

36:06

everything about his career is based on lies some

36:09

of them are exaggerations harmless others

36:12

far more insidious lisa was always

36:14

been about about

36:16

years and

36:19

i sat helping society satanic

36:22

have hijacked

36:24

party and that some sort of meal with one figure

36:27

small in order to do it and

36:29

then jerry six

36:31

the natale jerry six book either jerry's if

36:33

the many ways the combination of it or thousand

36:35

of really interesting have ever did hosts

36:39

january six politics state legislatures

36:42

restrict access to the valid the valid challenged

36:44

by the administration and democrats and how

36:46

well as we're talking about right now a litmus test

36:49

republican candidates and the twice right to [unk] sh

36:51

well it is interesting because there are two

36:53

things that come to mind the one i know what a crash

36:55

schedule this is not just because i know you

36:57

like because here's the story little secret

36:59

to all of our listeners who don't know anything about the

37:02

book business how you know a book was

37:04

done on a crash basis is doesn't have

37:06

an index or not if the book doesn't have an index

37:08

it was about another crash basis if it does have an index

37:10

it wasn't because it turns out in the book business

37:12

that indexing a book it takes a long fucking time

37:15

and so if you're really trying to raise to get a book out and

37:17

you look at the book this book doesn't have an index i don't mind

37:19

it not having an index but that's how you know that the

37:21

person was really pushing their deadline i get

37:23

i think for good reason journalist who write books want

37:25

to like try to get everything in and to have the things beef

37:27

as fresh as possible and don't want to be on these ridiculous

37:30

oh yeah alter my book at and then they'll come out a year from

37:32

now schedule doesn't really work supposed to be recovering american

37:34

politics in this moment the second thing else is

37:37

this so we hadn't thought of before maybe

37:39

you even about it because the point

37:41

you just hate about he said trump a the true on lies

37:44

and this is really kind of the big lies the biggest life is

37:47

you go on promote this book are you going

37:49

to say that the book is title the

37:51

big why are you gonna say the book

37:53

is titled the big lie

37:55

eight that's a good question

37:58

i made the big lie about

37:59

is there is going to give it away the whole thing is you

38:02

could go with the big lie because it's

38:04

the biggest difference lies the most important most pernicious

38:07

by think most people say the big wife and i

38:09

ask it only because games has used to be i guess awesome sight

38:11

is it game change or as a game change

38:13

at people for as a different ways and there's some different

38:16

meeting so yeah to figure out before he started doing this

38:18

on live television next week the i guess the us will be

38:20

more on the lie but it's a good point and weibo

38:22

ponders but the consequences of this

38:24

are just so

38:25

great it is fundamentally changed

38:28

where we are trump is not off

38:30

stage and you're right the times of the book i mean

38:32

there are things in this book

38:34

may nine two months ago gastrulate

38:36

the hundred million worth the war in ukraine

38:39

is part of that the last chapter particular really

38:41

shows up from certain herself back

38:43

on the states and that's when all sides also

38:45

capella a life bridges to presidents

38:47

and as someone who's not covered his

38:50

cover his it's will adapt

38:52

dead trump ministration other biden once

38:54

see how both administration's or try

38:56

to grapple with grapple with i found

38:58

serve an irresistible topic even i

39:01

truly tough that right so

39:03

prolonged people who did know the

39:05

major for spirits on morning joe and in twenty seventeen

39:08

you were not a familiar face on television wisely

39:10

and then this thing happen when you were overcoming

39:13

trump covering him on a daily basis for the associated

39:15

press as a last correspondent and you went with trump's

39:18

helsinki in july twenty eighth

39:20

and us to question as the press numbers

39:22

i was the most notable question of that

39:24

press conference and got replayed on television

39:26

or around the world i i need to tell you you

39:28

a person who is a very hard working very dodgy

39:31

print reporters only became based

39:33

the people knew of because you were asking trump

39:35

is a very important question about sweet sixteen

39:37

election and he was a force to answer

39:39

it the way that made news

39:41

route president other hansen your

39:43

for i'm just now president

39:45

pruning denied having a the to do with the election

39:47

year for twenty six

39:49

every new episode finity has considered it

39:59

with a whole world watching help

40:02

her dream home

40:03

the now what happened it was his game and

40:05

would warn him for never do that

40:16

not russia

40:22

epic oppressors of the of the edge because he has a

40:24

prologue very ramble on about servers and

40:26

crazy shit for a law that really want a place

40:29

you knew that question was going to generate

40:31

news that's why you ask what

40:33

was a white to suddenly be like on every

40:35

fucking television i'll be i'll be there was a broadcast

40:37

television or tabletop is network in the world

40:40

that didn't have your question as

40:42

part of their package for weeks

40:44

thereafter idea like madonna of a sudden

40:47

yeah didn't go by just one names but you're

40:49

right the right started to do you do to me

40:51

you do to me juri always just be what meet louis

40:53

to actually that's true actually i do go by one if i

40:55

think a lot of your msnbc world's for me is when

40:57

earth's is had i done table there for

41:00

us he by side with a contributor but you're right

41:02

prior to my seventeen had not done much

41:04

as certainly that was the moment to change

41:06

my career in career lot of ways and i

41:08

knew going into that news conference

41:11

that it was question to ask him he'd gotten versions

41:14

of along the way but it was gonna have

41:16

was different meaning a difference importance

41:19

when he accurate standing next

41:22

this is the height of the muller investigation

41:24

we didn't know where that was going he had faces

41:26

questions of collusion and election interference

41:29

sixteen and the oh so many of

41:31

his for policy moves into benefit moscow

41:34

and this was this was had people really

41:36

wants you know what was going on he was behind

41:38

the scenes lot of campaign in order to be

41:40

positioned to get that questions to get onto

41:43

the ask him and then you write a new we make his

41:45

i had a feeling he would effort forth

41:48

expand your the exercise or this is

41:51

where he basically service line with whom am

41:53

not had refused to that's anything

41:56

and as a postscript you might recall i

41:58

then did ask questions

41:59

and i'll just note the when poop answers your question

42:02

he doesn't break eye contact with the little bit unnerving

42:05

but i asked him if

42:07

this is the other hot topic that was out there i estimate

42:09

here is dumb it had any compromise

42:12

on donald trump or his family and

42:14

put gave us like long would it answer as he often

42:16

does and what she just simply said like oh would be

42:18

difficult to get that kind of material on

42:20

every province american cops russia

42:22

the never actually gave it a mile she was too

42:24

busy to use against photographic

42:26

says you be memory to a promo imprint your

42:28

face on his brain to give a real

42:31

answer so that he did then send that information

42:33

to the kgb i would certainly

42:35

probably not a bunch of you in russia or nitric

42:38

the , a i would you know by if i were you

42:40

i would go back there now yeah you'll be tells me

42:42

not to that's here's my question

42:45

and this question and kind of question they'll be interesting because

42:48

vp reporters daily news reporter is

42:50

even a lot of print reporters don't

42:52

ever talk about the thing about to ask you in

42:54

a real way at least not in public and i

42:56

bread the big lie and you get some sense

42:59

of this from the book but it's not like you

43:01

really go there some kind of curious about

43:03

it yeah how

43:05

psycho dramatic relationships with all the reporters

43:08

who cover him you could write it's to butcher those

43:10

lazy with maggots and you could probably you fifty years

43:12

of therapy and it's it's not just her he's

43:14

got his favorites they were haven't flown a wax

43:16

and wane i'm like covered up into a sixteen

43:18

a kind of a regular way on the circus federalist ship

43:20

also and he's what me for a while

43:22

and hated me and still hates me how

43:25

me about your personal relationship with them what's the vibe

43:28

like between you guys what was it like before that question

43:30

was like africa's the what do we know about trump is

43:32

he does not like people getting their

43:34

faces known on his back you

43:36

know he hates it if you're in time magazine because

43:38

you work for him he also hates reporters

43:41

who he thinks of kind of like exploited

43:43

him in some way so i wondered what your relationship

43:45

was like pre helsinki and what it was like

43:47

post helsinki and then why it's like today so

43:50

first of all take all step back and say i covered

43:52

a little bit but little was just was general news reporter

43:55

near safe than york daily news and the book includes

43:57

actor how he wants to try to set me up on a date

44:00

the you have to read to get to the best that

44:02

storage spite

44:03

he was someone who you're right has a

44:05

real love hate relationship with the president he put

44:08

the media at the center of his campaign

44:10

his presidency like know beforehand

44:12

called us the enemies of the people but he also had

44:14

to boss where he needed us he was

44:17

drawn to us into the acid that coverage

44:19

and certainly his wish it would maggie is in itself

44:22

category but i fell into popping the next

44:24

year down where he actively

44:26

dislike the many ways but also try

44:28

to impress or tried to persuade

44:31

them of his argument ice i lost track of them

44:33

are times when have a gaggle either order for swans

44:35

or at the white house where there were times where thought

44:38

he was just gaming suspicions at me

44:40

to talk to me try to convince me of a point

44:42

he was making a mess because i do think

44:44

it was i know there was real anger

44:46

after to figure shoot out and

44:49

press secretary sarah sanders that i

44:51

was allowed to ask a question that days

44:53

and why would you wanna talk before ask

44:55

a question the system when he ,

44:57

called his sleeve bag and threw me out of

44:59

a campaign event yell out of surprise

45:01

challenging him when i put in the school sprays

45:04

when they be reported by the few in

45:06

there and at a time he threw me out of the that because

45:08

he did like the question i asked him if he can jump

45:10

on that pants from pants dinner

45:13

shortly thereafter as to covering that's she

45:15

now

45:16

the he resented the moment

45:19

that also understood that

45:22

i was there for who at least his estimation of wish

45:24

that mattered in some of that because of

45:26

my regular presence on yeah

45:28

which we know is a show that he watches

45:31

religiously hate watches and

45:33

i think that that's hate watches and

45:35

seeing me on there were days that not made

45:37

him some so the find it in his

45:40

browser for

45:44

our twenties , paying

45:46

nearly every day since we're

45:48

mills

45:52

whatever of wisconsin poll

45:55

showed that he was do federer their the

45:57

major median and he's doing

45:59

just on the totality of a right so

46:02

as we've noted it's not a

46:04

campaign book it's not as an insurrection

46:06

book it's really is a story about

46:08

have an idea and up a bad idea

46:10

of produces idea poisonous idea and

46:12

insidious idea and genesis and they the

46:14

various forms of took it and how it played itself out

46:16

right you know in twenty twenty

46:19

you recording the book the doesn't your view

46:21

of chris wallace where he recapitulates the same

46:23

thing it's another debates days to respond to a sixteen

46:25

which is that he's not your is going accept the results the election

46:27

kobe heads and there's all the mail and boating and

46:29

trump's from the spring on as basically saying

46:32

it's rigs gonna be reg their got democrats

46:34

going to steal a you know when he gets the point where is basically

46:36

saying there are two possible outcomes this election

46:38

what is i when of the other stolen we sure

46:41

he'd making this argument over months

46:43

and you lay it all out he's building it building

46:45

it building at right over the course of

46:47

the twenty twenty election and you an ira television

46:50

and the up bang the drum about this this is what's gonna

46:52

happen guys and we weren't alone is

46:54

not like it wasn't covered right we all

46:56

bang the drum and scream

46:58

for the mountain tops and then we

47:01

got to election day and i

47:03

fully prepared for something like this to happen then

47:06

on election night soundtrack comes on the white house

47:08

and we're all bucking shocked when he does

47:10

this curtis

47:12

this is a fraud the

47:14

american public this is

47:16

an embarrassment to our country

47:20

we were getting ready to win this

47:22

election falsely we

47:24

did when the so the

47:31

logo mouse usual intensity

47:36

for the good of this nation this nation this very big

47:38

moment

47:39

this is a major fraud and our nation

47:42

we want

47:44

law to be used in a proper manner

47:47

the will be going to the us

47:49

supreme court

47:51

we want wall

47:52

loading to stop we don't

47:54

want them to find any ballard said

47:57

four o'clock in the morning and air them

48:02

i'm i'm really big show by that i

48:04

watched the wives and i was like oh my god

48:07

my question was though did we sales

48:11

how could it be that he was doing this thing in

48:13

plain sight and we all side and we all

48:15

talked about it and yet when it happened

48:17

everything that happened from that point forward although

48:20

in january sex the president

48:22

ignore this the things that we said about

48:24

the ways we covered it had no impact

48:26

on his prodigious what that unfolded

48:28

back things ended up being worse but you could ever imagine

48:31

what's the lesson of that years running

48:33

again maybe we have to deal with this again what

48:35

do we take for mass the i think about the salons

48:37

because trump has this it was in plain sight

48:40

and , right the didn't go unnoticed we all talked

48:42

about this and yes

48:45

yes did not change it's trajectory whatsoever

48:47

as a on some degree tough

48:49

was such cluster and he would talk about

48:51

silly things and then it wouldn't happen and

48:54

was always a sense a bad

48:56

as it was you know acquitted

48:59

of worse ya he never quite those there

49:01

but he's more barks and bite

49:04

so maybe there was bite so in the media

49:06

that yeah he ran rate for a while but

49:08

eventually he would go quietly but

49:11

your he would go and he with as your to

49:13

the dorms because as much as he

49:15

pushed into five norms the worse still some

49:17

boundaries of the presidency that

49:19

he did the snacks force respect

49:22

thread his tenure a get this

49:24

when he didn't he crossed the line and

49:26

i think we were

49:31

lord of the of of let , happen

49:33

and there's a famous lisa disclosed

49:35

why why rouge pretty a

49:37

few days after days calmer

49:40

i'm paraphrasing a successful what's

49:42

the harm what's the harm in

49:44

letting him brand rate for while we know is not a good

49:46

loser easier titled the file

49:48

to legal challenges but eventually

49:51

he'll stop to go stop marla go who also

49:53

fatally wounded hard

49:55

because the white house of so hollowed out he

49:57

was surrounded owns by

49:59

the great

50:01

he believes is a lie

50:04

or , party allowed to have

50:06

space to breathe and faster so

50:08

the conservative media and the line i

50:12

in the book without have some are hobbies

50:14

lawmakers was on hold for christmas break

50:16

he backed washed like slide

50:19

use a all my constituents

50:21

are talking about it and even

50:24

that really the drugs game

50:26

or six percent if the last page

50:28

the book of the big why the mirrors

50:31

that was new book the big lie like a cast political

50:34

opportunism and the save american politics after twenty

50:36

twenty i just will say so very

50:38

chilling republican party a lot of such be hijacked

50:40

by trump tethering itself to him to facilitate

50:42

agenda was turning a blind eye to is tom old

50:44

and wise stone just twelve months time

50:47

party leaders have gone from condemning the capital

50:49

tax and trump himself to downplaying

50:51

it it pilot you coming to terms with it it was

50:53

now part of their public employees core belief

50:55

the actions and lies that led to the insurrection

50:57

and the balance itself were acceptable the

51:00

big why was who they

51:03

we're

51:04

if that's true showing thing

51:06

i i agree with it is the conclusion

51:08

to that not the , party

51:11

is no longer legitimate political party america america

51:13

they stay within a be hard to come up with another

51:15

conclusions now political parties

51:18

are price of opportunism in the wind

51:20

changes maybe they don't other

51:22

way down shops against us

51:28

the right out that is either

51:30

for pressure back as you based on what you just ask me

51:33

how do we as a media cover

51:36

a top twenty sport him if

51:39

, still has not conceded twist

51:41

twist he is still spouting the

51:43

big lie is most not all that most

51:45

of the republican party goes along

51:47

goes how do we cover and we deem him

51:50

at insurrectionist presidential candidates to

51:52

we take any of his speeches lies

51:54

how do we put in the appropriate

51:56

context knowing that personal

51:58

taste prize advice

51:59

from republicans hey you're at me for it or guy

52:02

how do we do with i mean like it's a very big question

52:04

by will say this am i'm not backing away

52:06

from cancer and i'm just saying it's very big question is a lot

52:08

of permutations of this different kinds of user is a

52:10

sensor and had to think about different ways but i will tell

52:12

you that the arguments that we used to have

52:15

for the people used i did have them but others did

52:17

about like is it ok for the or times use the

52:19

word line at pages i can places as ago

52:21

such as a queen's ridiculous

52:23

argument that we had actually was a real thing

52:25

in the last five years people talked about oh

52:28

my god the time zone always you know

52:30

it's like it's guys i think that the

52:32

answer has to be and this

52:34

the application of my question about the party of a degree

52:37

of hines to contextualize

52:39

asian that was going to seem

52:42

by the old standards is going to seem outrageous

52:44

that would seem utterly biased but the reality

52:46

is as you say this is the the republican

52:49

party as and donald trump try to stage a

52:51

coup i don't think there's any doubt about

52:53

it the facts are they are you can't

52:55

let a person who attempted to stage a byword

52:57

to the same powers you can't

53:00

treat that person ever again as normal the

53:02

details exactly what that means for this

53:04

organization or that are as the people would ago spewed

53:07

out to figure that out we could talk about that for an hour but

53:09

i do know that if any semblance of normalcy

53:11

comes back to the cupboard were were acting like

53:14

he's just a new trade policy let's cover that

53:17

without being like young scattered young scattered stage

53:19

a coup

53:20

that's bad that's not acceptable i think and

53:22

i think the media release could have to take this very seriously

53:24

go for because our propensity is gonna

53:26

be to go back and just slide back

53:29

into the comfortable bathwater i'm trying to treat trump like

53:31

is envious yeah ,

53:33

were expecting

53:35

to be relations failed some of those tests

53:46

the able to alter anything betty coverage

53:48

better the context of their how remember part

53:51

, the team of these people with work resists

53:54

described is lyla bursaries

53:57

that was that big deal to so i think we

53:59

met the moment

53:59

twenty know it's but

54:02

twenty four will be retired

54:06

or i will take one more quick break and will be

54:08

back with more of jonathan were

54:10

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and we're back with john when we're

54:57

here or high water

55:00

when a book comes out

55:02

all these people have his club or to waste a market

55:04

bucks right to multimedia age and and

55:06

people have different ways going about it's were mere

55:08

has come up with an incredible thing to market

55:10

the big why i want to play it right now

55:13

incredible that you came up with this i was so

55:15

so impressed

55:16

i'm jumping around the living room of

55:18

ten cedar wood roads sand

55:21

glad to see ago from the ramones leave

55:23

home

55:31

nineteen seventy eight the ,

55:33

of my eighteenth birthday these

55:35

songs these and yet

55:37

they express complexity is way more

55:39

relevant to my license

55:46

three and a half weeks to me is

55:48

album thanks only twenty nine minutes

55:51

so that was of course not actually

55:54

john mariners bano you

55:56

to an alleged ah that list there's some whole

55:58

history of years later

55:59

about were like you list of our bones and linda

56:02

cedar wood around you know i don't annoy the

56:04

about that sides of you but maybe there's a store

56:06

their to tell my years on the north side a doubling

56:09

down am i played it because

56:11

veneers issues you to head and i ask

56:13

you as well as your my time since

56:15

i don't want out of helicopters that i can do this kind of my

56:17

promo your new talking like i was the

56:19

has this is like ray rights and how much you look

56:21

for to that book coming out the books called surrender forty

56:23

songs one stories coming on nov they

56:26

plan to kennedy center honors barely also run

56:28

the same time in december just announced yesterday

56:30

very saw that as to the anti tobacco

56:32

to get i

56:36

, it was does he know that they did this thing with you

56:38

too because of you thought about all that but never to be something

56:40

new i mean i know is a rockstar i'd have

56:42

we isn't everything but like it's this animated

56:44

video on you tube like what's the most

56:46

innovative and you're going to do to solve the big lie for

56:48

real i'm also gonna i'm also an

56:51

arena stadium tour and twenty twenty three

56:53

much like the voice from the ban i will say outrageously

56:55

said for

56:57

that one eyed you were able sample

56:59

does it does seem like they're movie into more reflective

57:01

stage of their career will see what's

57:04

the music video produced by i'm hopefully got

57:06

wanted to mark killer else yeah me

57:08

too man and you know hey you know everyone's

57:10

the was also pops up it's kind of brilliant

57:12

and i hope to that's the case with these guys to

57:15

you know that we tackled by your career a second ago

57:17

and it's want to raise in a little bit more here it's you said

57:19

that the helsinki things change some things for you became

57:22

part of the morning joe gang it is a deep way in

57:25

that twenty nineteen cut it has in the tweet

57:27

way cycling and all the sudden actually you know you're not

57:29

just on that show which is that i mean abuses

57:32

to seven to seven i still can't believe

57:34

i get up even two days or weeks to do it's it's

57:36

brutal then you somehow

57:38

accept the notion that they are going to go to this other

57:40

show that starts at five am a

57:43

did you ever imagine that you'd end up basically be

57:45

a television personality and be you're

57:47

the top receivers value i to go to work everyday basis

57:50

for i showed him out of five am when

57:52

you put his l a c rethink some things i

57:54

know i certainly never anticipated that

57:56

are you know what i love report i love to write

57:59

as evidenced by the

57:59

work and because of the had i'm

58:02

brass the fool who

58:04

didn't give up his day job when he went to do tv

58:07

certain group of a p the politico but i'm

58:10

the up to four five violence a week

58:12

for them dtv it's early

58:14

but it's it's a purchase

58:16

, your dvr for the want to get up to

58:18

good chef and as i did more

58:20

more tv when seventeen eighteen nineteen so

58:22

on i found that i would like that and

58:24

have to this to suggest hosting wanted

58:27

to get better at it's point

58:30

i'd like been able to do that as well as

58:32

it's really the morning joe get has my forever

58:35

gratitude forever the opportunity

58:36

well i

58:38

jog you have an open invitation a time he wanted

58:40

to my five am whoop which the back after

58:43

the show you can sleep below that to zoom

58:45

it's find yourself a studio will take johnson

58:48

the retard this reduction some a on his bike attorneys

58:50

out i to her that was addresses are there was aired

58:52

i would love it i some point i'll come on the shot the oh

58:54

wait you released his for me which really bad

58:56

spell come on i promise i'm like never been

58:59

on with you've never been obvious of our for the

59:01

cats are dead wood or yellow brick that's nine oh come

59:03

on their fears only gets just a couple questions if you're

59:05

about to board

59:07

and it's cove it's i mean what assuming

59:09

the guy is gonna be fine you

59:12

know he was going to get it eventually there's a lot of reflective

59:14

thumb sucking about obviously was a transform nothing

59:16

that went to a election they took great care but eventually

59:18

was going to get it it's nobody's fault is gonna be fine

59:21

but here's the thing this thing happened

59:23

a couple of weeks ago like july twelve he's coming out of

59:25

some white house picnic and he gets confronted

59:27

by some reporters about the

59:29

fact that there's a bunch of the democratic party who don't want to run

59:31

for reelection salary play that mr president

59:34

what's your message the democrats you don't want you to run

59:36

again

59:37

they they want me to write it suits are sitting

59:40

out a false hope ,

59:42

he was also the polls

59:45

show that ninety to pursue them consumer

59:47

was opened was majority of democrats

59:49

they don't way to run again and know when and know four

59:51

and ninety two percent set of ideas

59:54

of those

59:55

you covering out on a regular basis you guys

59:58

obviously contrasts with trump

59:59

i only

1:00:01

if ever you get i don't you see this is like joe

1:00:03

biden it's crazy to be that he's like

1:00:05

one of the polls one of the post dude i've read

1:00:07

the polls the polls are not great

1:00:10

like when you don't why you on a rope line the

1:00:12

tower people would have a polls the polls

1:00:14

are not good for joe biden i know

1:00:16

he doesn't have a discipline but what do you what do you think

1:00:18

the mindset is there right now around

1:00:21

this question around how biden

1:00:23

is is thinking about the choices

1:00:25

ahead i'm gonna leave that open i think

1:00:27

right now he thinks is right for reelection world's gonna change

1:00:29

is going to be us our image or missouri how do you

1:00:31

think that he and his advisors are

1:00:33

thinking about it because it is a deafening

1:00:36

thing now the democratic party of like the

1:00:38

chance wonder about loving the law democratic

1:00:41

any , the answer that ends with jack spectacular

1:00:45

you know you've asked the right questions did you get a jackass

1:00:47

and the response of but you're right this you're

1:00:50

right first slippery slope cove it's mild

1:00:52

symptoms they believe is defined white

1:00:54

house's undertone of moscow business a it's

1:00:56

inevitable he's gonna get it

1:01:02

iris scan worry you'll

1:01:04

be say we're reasonably that but

1:01:06

, does underscore first of all as a see

1:01:08

a white house party yesterday what

1:01:11

next one more low

1:01:13

right now

1:01:14

for destruction the somewhat really that

1:01:16

it had to real success on the for participate

1:01:19

in , for was occupied credit

1:01:21

for the ladies rallied the west and and

1:01:25

the federal budget of us have right

1:01:27

now they're hurting and this is

1:01:29

one more obstacle in terms with

1:01:31

future years future steady drumbeat

1:01:33

of last two or three months and

1:01:36

i think there's a crisis amongst that

1:01:41

will be forever grateful for job

1:01:43

i'm meeting knowledge

1:01:45

we're not sure you're right man to beat trump is

1:01:48

the historic not the face of

1:01:50

the party going forward and a look

1:01:52

at his poll numbers which are admittedly

1:01:54

that his future though i

1:01:56

think is and you're right by us aid for

1:01:58

probably privately say would you all things

1:02:01

one does too once again and no one's expect

1:02:03

a decision at off as a player toy

1:02:05

train greed midterms clear joe

1:02:07

biden no not no for me speed decisions

1:02:09

in there some other practises stretched

1:02:12

, says may have a dream enter

1:02:14

in the summer and fall when it really might hinder

1:02:16

the ability to value field he doesn't

1:02:18

run run think the biggest fish has his

1:02:20

future seem so intertwined with that

1:02:23

of donald trump's or and that is what i

1:02:25

talked to the say no paths the made the

1:02:27

first place them at the say about

1:02:29

this about ,

1:02:31

talk

1:02:43

your partner says well you know

1:02:45

that would be if he were to win against he

1:02:47

finishes second term in the agents

1:02:49

are closer nineteen and eighty was as

1:02:52

or a tough thing and i gotta say now i

1:02:54

saw some very close to buy them is very close by

1:02:56

the who said you know ah yeah

1:02:58

says he is true but nobody

1:03:00

was have was conversation with him that

1:03:02

even if they did you know what he say that's

1:03:04

always ever done is in your whole life has been running

1:03:07

for office rights as how you keep score on

1:03:09

his career and as soon as somebody goes woman says

1:03:11

listen i'm at present whether it's in this with your health

1:03:13

in the party or anything else you probably need to step aside

1:03:16

his answer is gonna be hey everybody

1:03:18

the room every gather round how many people here have

1:03:20

run against donald trump before no

1:03:22

he does enhance happy if i'm

1:03:25

the only one half interesting how it has where

1:03:27

i get some once how many times i've beaten him once rebuilding

1:03:30

the country run against him he beat him know so

1:03:32

shut the fuck up i'm in which is there's

1:03:35

an answer to that of course but they ego

1:03:37

of a politician whose watches win loss record

1:03:39

says i saved the country i beat

1:03:41

him when illegal in couldn't when nobody else could

1:03:44

and you're going to tell me now i should step down i should not run

1:03:46

against them

1:03:47

go fuck yourself which i think is going to be his

1:03:49

instinct even feel it

1:03:51

could not agree more about i think he's gonna be

1:03:53

would have would have hard time resisting

1:03:55

that that rematch and i think

1:03:57

that that the states will be that much

1:03:59

because of what

1:04:02

first party drop redistribution because

1:04:04

of what trump didn't wait way how he changed

1:04:06

our paths completely filled with i'll have to

1:04:09

think about it differently if he were

1:04:11

to run again with no guardrails

1:04:13

possibly him winning again and

1:04:15

he be able to save more or less look at all

1:04:17

i didn't twenty twenty including january six

1:04:20

added a price i've treasured again

1:04:22

that which is it i'm very new place

1:04:25

as a country and i think this democrats

1:04:27

said steaks who be impossibly

1:04:29

high that actually would live up to the i love lucy

1:04:32

works

1:04:33

don't have wins reelection in twenty

1:04:35

twenty four they will put the country a tiny place

1:04:37

also put me into when you place have been a place

1:04:39

outside the country armstead i'm i'm

1:04:42

i'm night i want to be jailed study be audited

1:04:44

are to be jailed and only be killed and those the only

1:04:46

free options if trump gets reluctance here's

1:04:48

my last pieces out because this is the sound that

1:04:50

in our in the political world like the

1:04:53

leading indicator gives a sense of the winded

1:04:55

weather here's gavin newsom

1:04:57

who made that and put on television on

1:04:59

fox news over the july fourth week packing

1:05:03

rhonda santos moved i got worse

1:05:05

i just for our politics or else say that it's

1:05:07

independent states what's talk about what's

1:05:09

going on in american freedom

1:05:12

center attack in your state a republican

1:05:14

leaders they're banning books make

1:05:16

it harder to vote restricting speech

1:05:18

in classrooms even criminalizing women

1:05:20

and doctors i urge all of

1:05:22

you live in florida to join the fight for

1:05:25

join us in california but we still believe

1:05:27

in freedom freedom of speech freedom

1:05:29

to choose freedom from hate in the freedom

1:05:32

to love don't let them take your

1:05:34

freedom though i ask you will

1:05:37

mirror but the santas tax biden

1:05:39

almost every week now he takes the coated money

1:05:41

and gives it to be onto something else he attacks one inflation

1:05:43

the attack them last weekend immigrations he's

1:05:45

running as biden in some way already knew

1:05:48

, is that running against against expertly

1:05:50

really gets to santas santas gavin

1:05:53

newsom get ready to primary job primary scavengers

1:05:56

mr getting his address so

1:05:58

by does

1:05:59

there were a b c and where he would take him on

1:06:02

it drives her primary that's still a tough ask

1:06:06

even if it's a democratic president who would

1:06:08

be a jew who might have

1:06:10

poor poll numbers still the white house says well i

1:06:13

ain't got time turn that around and they do and there's

1:06:15

and real scenario where even the midterms go

1:06:17

badly for democrats well they did for bill clinton

1:06:19

and barack obama to they both got re-elected so

1:06:21

that so that messaging weary of the white house

1:06:24

but newsome there is representing something

1:06:27

to a , willing to take

1:06:29

the fight to the of that

1:06:31

is what other pets with that

1:06:34

he is not giving voice to

1:06:36

the our anger of their frustration about

1:06:38

losing existential the

1:06:41

, fate

1:06:44

to the weight

1:06:48

biden would argue with my hands are tied against

1:06:51

such job and

1:06:53

what you are not

1:06:57

there were not democrats right now see just

1:06:59

want to feel the to should matter their plate

1:07:01

options are geared endless was a look it's sexualization

1:07:04

of so far on

1:07:08

, it right out right out

1:07:11

feel like

1:07:13

they're not gymnasts the white house and someone like

1:07:15

the new somewhere up another stop

1:07:17

it or whatever like him trying

1:07:20

to tap into some

1:07:21

we have one minute left the here's the lighting rounds

1:07:23

and really lighting run again just answer the questions really

1:07:25

quickly or i will trump runner not yes

1:07:28

, the santas run in that case we run

1:07:30

against trump know know if

1:07:33

they were to run against each other using from would be to satisfy

1:07:35

our side has said other traffic

1:07:38

is less of a certain kind of others on

1:07:41

can i remade now that he's running the not actually

1:07:43

ultimately be on the ballot by the time that we actually for

1:07:45

primers i'm that's a real possibility

1:07:47

that he said wait abandons

1:07:49

to run yep no no but high

1:07:51

probability not certain eating in the and by

1:07:53

runs again or not than

1:07:56

who the most likely democratic nominee it's

1:07:58

ah joe biden and twenty three

1:08:01

i mean

1:08:03

this is where i live will hatch somebody the vice president

1:08:06

goes a lot of advantages field

1:08:08

certainly would not clear for her it

1:08:10

would be a window therefore it gavin newsom like air

1:08:13

i'll tell you man very hard for a

1:08:15

white man to be a historic

1:08:18

moment primary ,

1:08:20

gallagher who ya doctor would you say like our harris

1:08:22

army or which is a by get eviscerated me ask you

1:08:24

do with wacko to win the game nominations you

1:08:27

have a huge head start on that even

1:08:29

with all of her supposed to weaknesses that the beltway

1:08:31

crowd think she has has agree

1:08:33

wholeheartedly that so purple numbers

1:08:35

are as bad as japan's right now that she in this scenario

1:08:38

will be more formidable than most democrats one

1:08:40

athena odds that the red sox make

1:08:42

the playoffs

1:08:44

oh under fifty percent the did they're not very

1:08:46

good the sure i'm more concerned they lock

1:08:48

up overseas everest in the long term they might

1:08:50

sneak in as a lot harder not go anywhere they do

1:08:53

i prick fortune go back to that

1:08:55

guy who played before favorite you tucson

1:08:58

abby where the streets of their name is nervous my

1:09:01

, of favorites is so long as

1:09:04

as i were the streets of money for degree

1:09:06

when they play it live my past life

1:09:08

come on

1:09:12

i was there and i were to the concert after september

1:09:14

eleventh yeah they have shown october

1:09:17

as was on one and yeah it

1:09:19

was in front of never ever make our very first

1:09:21

responders on stage and a half years and know

1:09:24

flags on their toes credible said

1:09:26

josh which is best album therefore read

1:09:28

your argument to deviate from you don't

1:09:30

think is better at the you know what i'm under

1:09:32

they began yeah i know it's from

1:09:34

a strong i'm and it's my last question

1:09:37

of who's your favorite of the morning joe

1:09:39

hosts

1:09:41

mark

1:09:43

good the i'll be is officially house much

1:09:45

i was really loud that galloway i'm not sure yet troubles

1:09:48

after the same i i know he the stars are love

1:09:50

all the time she doesn't need to

1:09:52

be out and official house to be a spiritual

1:09:54

host and he's in the onset rhyme television

1:09:57

and baseball and suman hall of fame

1:10:00

the great big winner that's right you know when you're not

1:10:02

you're there's a day like , was

1:10:04

not today his presence was still felt he is inhuman

1:10:06

hall of famer he's a human first ballot

1:10:08

hall of famer and younger less about

1:10:10

yourself everybody's gonna go out and buy this

1:10:12

book cured my i know i you gotta go but

1:10:15

the orange okay i've my where my favorite

1:10:17

colors i love orange or got no problem with a big lie

1:10:19

flexing tales for optimism in the state of america

1:10:21

autographed weight when it's it is this orange

1:10:23

cover in some ways in front of an oblique

1:10:25

reference donald trump's agent or

1:10:27

nice nice instance there's not

1:10:30

is it i swear it's not i swear it's not

1:10:32

and i was actually that the to do with it does the publisher

1:10:34

just thought about the i just thought it would pop

1:10:36

on the bookshelves and the aren't in with

1:10:39

the black and white as they get really stressed

1:10:41

or with pops and i'll tell you i'm gonna be a huge

1:10:44

seller for halloween wage on wage my

1:10:46

friends and the author of this great evoke job

1:10:48

wonder how much anybody oh

1:10:51

and hot water is podcast from the recount thanks again to

1:10:53

jonathan a mere for being with us and remember to pick

1:10:55

up johnson's great new book at the big why

1:10:58

election chaos political opportunism in the state

1:11:00

of american politics after twenty twenty if

1:11:02

you've liked this podcast please please subscribe

1:11:05

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1:11:13

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1:11:20

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b one and only sorry