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1:45

Hi friends, this is Janet Parshall. Thanks so

1:47

much for choosing to spend the next hour with us.

1:50

Today's program is pre-recorded so

1:52

our phone lines are not open. But thanks so much

1:54

for being with us and enjoy the broadcast.

1:57

Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.

1:58

This time the conference was over. The president won

2:00

a pledge.

2:01

Americans worshiping government over God.

2:03

Extremely rare safety move by.

2:05

A mate 17 years. The Palestinians

2:07

and Israelis negotiated is

2:10

not.

2:12

Even.

2:25

Hi friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet

2:27

Parshall. Thank you so much for choosing to spend

2:29

the hour with us. I greatly

2:32

appreciate it. And if you ask me what

2:34

are my favorite kind of interviews? Having done this

2:36

for decades here in the shadow

2:38

of the nation's capital, people always expect me

2:40

to say some member of the cabinet or a president

2:43

or some senator or some

2:45

congressman, somebody you know that shows up on those Sunday

2:47

morning talk shows. And I've certainly had my fair share of

2:49

those conversations. And I'm very,

2:51

very appreciative of the opportunity to visit

2:53

with those individuals I truly am. I want to know about

2:55

their worldview. I want to know why they

2:57

think the way they do, and what their goals

3:00

are now that they've stepped into the role of

3:02

public servant. And they are fascinating

3:04

conversations. But those are

3:06

not my favorite conversations. Fascinating,

3:08

yes, but not my favorite. My favorite conversations

3:10

are always the ones where I

3:12

can just sit and listen to someone who will tell

3:14

me who they were, but

3:17

who they are now, because their life has been

3:19

completely and totally transformed,

3:21

not just temporally here on planet Earth, but

3:23

eternally. There's been a dramatic redirection.

3:26

They had an encounter with Jesus,

3:28

and we all must struggle with that question Who is

3:31

Jesus? Is he exactly who he said

3:33

he is or is? C.S. Lewis said, is he

3:35

a man who's a liar, a lunatic, or poached

3:37

eggs for a brain? We all

3:39

have to answer that question. You cannot ignore

3:42

the person of Jesus. So either he said

3:44

he is exactly who he is or you

3:46

ignore him. And some would say you do

3:48

so at your own peril. So what

3:50

happens when you're going about your life questioning

3:53

everything around you, and you suddenly discover

3:55

that not only do you not have the answers, your

3:57

heart is empty and the bottom drops out

3:59

of your life. Well, that's just a little sneak

4:01

peek of the conversation you're going to hear this hour. So

4:03

pull up a chair, make yourself comfortable, and come with

4:05

me on a journey as we discover exactly

4:08

who Adrian Lee Johnson is. She was

4:10

raised by a loving secular

4:12

parents in Santa Monica, California. She

4:14

got a master's in professional writing

4:16

from the University of Southern California. She

4:18

was the co-owner of and I hope I say this

4:20

correctly. Notably, that's a

4:22

writing business specializing in family legacy

4:25

documents and grant proposals. She got a $50

4:27

million grant for the National Boy

4:29

Scouts of America. By the way, that's

4:31

the largest donation in that organization's

4:34

100 year history. She went on to

4:36

become a trust and estate paralegal at a top

4:38

LA law firm. But then something happened

4:41

in her life, and she left all of that. And now

4:43

what she wanted to do is step into the marketplace

4:45

of ideas. She wanted to influence and occupy.

4:47

She wanted to with all the stuff

4:49

that's being bought and sold out in that marketplace.

4:51

She wanted to advance ideas that she felt

4:53

were true and right, and

4:55

compassionate and helpful for the people

4:57

around her. So she stepped into the role as chief

5:00

of staff at Prager University,

5:02

and she now sits at the right hand to the

5:04

CEO, and she helps oversee a whole bunch

5:06

of projects and a growing staff of nearly

5:09

100 employees. If

5:11

you've not seen the videos that Prager University

5:13

puts out, you're truly missing something.

5:15

They are wonderful. You know, when we

5:17

step into the marketplace of ideas, if I might

5:19

be so bold, particularly as followers of Jesus Christ,

5:22

I don't ever want to produce shabby goods.

5:24

I want to show the world that you can walk

5:26

and talk at the same time. As a follower of Jesus,

5:29

I want to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that faith

5:31

and reason are not mutually exclusive, and that science

5:33

and religion are not at war with one another. But that means

5:35

you better be on your A-game, because the world

5:37

is constantly going to put out there a game. But

5:39

in the end, they've got straw man

5:41

arguments. They're hollow, they fall under their

5:43

own weight. So what I love about PragerU

5:46

is that they cover a wide variety of topics,

5:48

but always they do it in a five

5:50

star capacity and these videos are terrific.

5:53

I point that out to you, particularly because you can

5:55

watch Adrian's video while she explains

5:57

why she is no longer an atheist.

5:59

Adrian, what an honor to meet you. You're

6:02

going to give me something. I can't give it back. It's an hour

6:04

of your time. I know you must have steam coming

6:06

out of your ears. All the things that you're doing

6:08

as you're sitting there as the chief of staff

6:10

at PragerU. So thank you for this

6:12

gift. I can't give it back, but I'm so looking

6:15

forward to getting to know you in a deeper fashion.

6:17

Tell me first what it was like growing up in Santa

6:19

Monica, California. What was life like as

6:21

a kid in your house?

6:22

Thank you so much for having me. And,

6:24

uh, that was a great introduction. I just

6:26

want to say, for all of that content that you mentioned,

6:29

and just thank you for all of your kind words. Anybody

6:31

and everybody can watch it totally for free@prageru.com.

6:36

Uh, regarding my my growing

6:38

up, uh, I grew up

6:40

raised by loving secular

6:42

parents in Santa Monica, California.

6:45

Uh, they were very attentive. I was

6:47

an only child, but we didn't

6:49

have a lot of structure. We didn't have

6:51

a lot of moral boundaries. There

6:54

really was no God in our home. There was

6:56

no formal religion.

6:58

Uh, I had been exposed to some things

7:01

like, you know, in our culture

7:03

and just in society, things like

7:05

the stories of Adam and Eve and Noah's

7:07

Ark and the parting of the Red sea.

7:10

And I just rejected it all entirely.

7:12

I thought that it was just made up fairy

7:15

tales, um, from a very, very

7:17

young age. I was, even

7:19

as a child, very

7:21

rational. I wanted everything

7:23

to be logical and to make sense.

7:26

In fact, when I was four years old,

7:28

I came to my father and I was

7:30

very earnest, and I said, dad,

7:32

I just want you to tell me the truth, okay?

7:35

Is Santa Claus real? And

7:38

he was so taken aback by my directness

7:41

that he just looked at me and said, no,

7:43

he isn't. And at the time, even as

7:46

a four year old, I was relieved because

7:48

in my mind, it didn't make sense. It didn't

7:50

logically make sense that one person could fly

7:52

all over the world in one night and

7:54

deliver all these presents. And so even

7:57

at a really young age, I wanted everything

7:59

to be rational and logical.

8:01

And I just didn't think that

8:03

religion or, you know, spirituality

8:05

of any kind was rational rationale.

8:08

So I just rejected it all.

8:10

You say in your own bio that you reach that

8:13

that decision, that there was nothing to do with

8:15

God, that the supernatural. You didn't buy into that

8:17

by the age of nine. Adrian,

8:20

I have to tell you that just early on into our conversation

8:22

here that tells me that God gave you a very

8:24

sharp mind. You were looking for answers,

8:26

and you were looking for the answers to the big

8:29

questions that God has placed in the

8:31

heart of every single one of us. I find

8:33

that absolutely fascinating. Were you

8:35

raised in a house where they're kind of pursuing

8:38

the bigger questions? Those deeper philosophical

8:40

conversations were commonplace, or is that

8:42

just germane to how you're hardwired?

8:44

I think it was a bit of both. I think

8:46

that I was raised by

8:49

a father who was very, very intellectual

8:51

and very cerebral. He had a PhD

8:54

in international relations. And

8:57

he, you know, he and I would have discussions

8:59

even going back to a young age.

9:02

He always talked to me like an adult,

9:04

even when I was a child. And

9:06

my mother was sort of new

9:08

age. Um, but I got a lot

9:11

of that, uh, those thinking about big

9:13

ideas and big questions from my dad.

9:15

Wow. Wow. That's so cool. Adrian

9:17

Johnson is with us. We're going to walk along with her on

9:20

her story, who she was, but more

9:22

importantly, who she is today. Call somebody.

9:24

These are the best kind of stories in the world. Because

9:26

if it can change Adrian, if it can change me,

9:28

it can change you back after this.

9:45

The Bible tells us to be on the alert, for the Lord

9:47

is coming again. That's why I've chosen. Are we living

9:49

in the end times? As this month's truth tool?

9:51

Get answers to questions like what are the

9:53

end times? What role does Israel play, and how

9:55

do I prepare? Ask for your copy of

9:57

Are We Living in the End Times? When you give a gift

10:00

of any amount to in the market, call 877

10:02

Janet 58. That's 877 Janet

10:04

58 or go to in the market with Janet

10:06

parshall.org. We

10:11

have the pleasure of spending the hour with Adrienne Johnson.

10:14

She currently is the chief of staff at

10:16

Prager University Prager U. And

10:18

I'm telling you, I'm going to say exactly what

10:20

Adrienne said. Excellent thought provoking materials,

10:22

particularly if you have someone whose worldview

10:25

isn't really concretized in those transcendent

10:27

ideas of right and wrong and good and

10:29

evil. And there are all kinds of people who tell

10:31

their stories there. And Adrian was one of those

10:34

people, and I found her. And I'm so glad that we

10:36

get to spend this time together. So again,

10:38

I'm extremely impressed, raised in this

10:40

thought provoking household and is a nine

10:42

year old, you're doing a lot of deep thinking about

10:44

a lot of things I have to ask you pursued,

10:47

um, when you decided to go to school, a

10:49

career in writing. Is there a reason for that?

10:51

And when you say professional writing for people

10:54

who don't understand, how does a professional

10:56

writing degree differ from just saying you got a degree

10:58

in writing.

10:59

At the University of Southern California,

11:01

where I got my master's degree in professional

11:03

writing, they it was sort of a specialized

11:06

degree. I guess it's similar

11:08

to sort of an, an MFA, a master's

11:10

in fine arts. But this master's

11:12

in professional writing had different focuses, so

11:15

you could focus in screenwriting and playwriting

11:17

fiction. And what I focused in

11:19

was nonfiction. I always wanted

11:21

to be a nonfiction

11:23

writer. In fact, at the time when I went to

11:26

grad school, my fantasy back

11:28

then was sort of to be the next Ann Coulter.

11:30

I wanted to be somebody who would write and

11:32

comment on society and

11:34

politics. Uh, that was always

11:36

my passion. Well, I shouldn't say always.

11:38

It became my passion when I was an undergrad

11:41

in college at the University

11:43

of California, Santa Barbara,

11:45

when I was a spiked

11:47

purple hair, tattoo covered,

11:50

tongue pierced, uh, young

11:52

woman. Um, but

11:54

I was very libertarian and

11:56

even conservative in my beliefs,

11:58

and I wanted to comment on society

12:01

and politics. That really became

12:03

my passion. And so I wanted

12:05

to pursue a career in writing because I

12:07

thought that was, you know, perhaps at the time, the best

12:09

way to do that.

12:11

So you had something to say, and you wanted

12:13

to learn how to say it the best way you could.

12:15

But the Bible says, out of the overflow

12:17

of the heart, I love the translations that say, out of the

12:19

abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So

12:21

I want to get to what got you to the place where

12:23

it was spiked purple hair and tats. So

12:26

back up to age nine. You

12:28

had. And I love this. I quote this all the time. I

12:30

reference Blaise Pascal's The God Shaped Void.

12:32

You call it rightfully what he did, the

12:34

infinite abyss. There's that hole in the heart

12:37

that God puts there. You are plugging all

12:39

kinds of things in there. But as Pascal points

12:41

out, the only thing that fills it is that relationship

12:43

with God through Jesus Christ. So tell

12:45

me about that journey from nine to that

12:47

master's degree. What sort of things

12:49

were you trying on that you thought would fit?

12:52

Yeah, that's exactly right. I,

12:54

of course, did not realize this at the

12:56

time, but I had this hole in my

12:58

heart. I was trying to fill this void

13:00

with other things, mostly

13:03

with approval and affirmation

13:05

from other people. So I wanted to

13:08

be popular. I wanted to be cool.

13:10

I wanted to be one of the cool kids. I

13:12

started drinking and smoking

13:14

and doing drugs at a very young age.

13:16

At the age of 12, I started experimenting.

13:19

I started being sexual with boys because

13:22

that's what the cool kids did.

13:24

Um, and so I thought that's what I needed to do

13:26

to get that approval and that attention.

13:28

And, you know, it worked in

13:30

the interim. It worked momentarily

13:33

where I would, you know, feel good about myself,

13:35

but then it wouldn't last. And so then I'd have

13:37

to do more. And I did things.

13:39

Unfortunately, as a young child where,

13:42

you know, I was I was giving myself

13:44

away. I was not treating myself

13:46

as if I had value because

13:48

it was more important to please another person,

13:51

because I thought that it would get me what I wanted

13:53

and what I needed. Now, of course, none

13:55

of this was conscious at the

13:57

time. If you would pointed this out to me, I

14:00

probably would not have understood this or I

14:02

would have disagreed and said, you don't know what you're talking

14:04

about, but this is a pattern that

14:06

went on for many, many years all throughout

14:08

middle school, high school,

14:10

college. I basically went

14:12

from one long term relationship to

14:14

another. I was often not

14:16

faithful in my relationships. I

14:19

often was, you know, would cheat on my

14:21

boyfriends. And then when I wasn't

14:23

in a relationship, I was looking for one

14:25

night stands and hookups

14:27

and, you know, having a lot

14:29

of quote unquote fun, you know,

14:31

a lot of partying, a lot of fun.

14:34

And there were moments of, you know,

14:36

having a good time and enjoying

14:38

myself. But ultimately

14:40

it was actually very damaging. And

14:43

it and it and it hurt and it didn't actually

14:45

work. You know, it worked did momentarily

14:47

and then didn't last. And

14:49

then when I was sorry.

14:51

Go ahead.

14:52

No, no, please.

14:53

I was just going to continue on that when I

14:55

was about 22 and I was in grad

14:57

school, so that lasted all throughout college

14:59

that that, you know, trying to fill that

15:01

void in those ways. And then when

15:03

I got to college, um, you

15:05

know, and the the thing about this kind of

15:07

acting out behavior is

15:09

that it gets progressively worse. What

15:12

used to work doesn't work anymore.

15:14

So now you have to sort of up the ante,

15:16

right? You have to do even more to

15:18

get more of a high. and each

15:20

time the consequences are a little higher.

15:23

Now I'm starting to get older, you know,

15:25

you move out of mom and dad's living

15:27

under Mom and dad's roof, and now

15:29

you don't get to just come home at the end of the night.

15:31

It's like the the repercussions and

15:33

the consequences are more severe. So

15:35

now I'm 22. I'm

15:37

in grad school getting my master's in professional

15:40

writing at the University of Southern California,

15:42

and that is where I met my ex-husband,

15:45

who was also a writer. Um,

15:47

was incredibly brilliant.

15:49

And I thought that, you know, by us

15:51

being together and us getting married, that

15:53

that would be the thing that would

15:55

complete me and make me happy and

15:57

make me whole. Um, but

16:00

it was just another iteration of the same

16:02

pattern, which, again, did

16:04

not work because no person

16:07

can complete me or satisfy me or

16:09

make me whole. He certainly couldn't. And

16:11

I put him in a position, a totally

16:13

losing position. You know, where he was doomed

16:15

to fail. Because no one can

16:17

be my purpose and my identity and

16:19

my meaning. And so

16:21

it just continued to get progressively

16:24

worse until I

16:26

really hit, uh,

16:28

the depths of a deep, deep

16:30

depression.

16:31

That's a perfect place for us to stop. So let me

16:33

leave you there. Not in that deep, deep depression. But

16:35

I'll pick that story up at exactly

16:37

that point. And I just. You've said something

16:40

very important, and you're talking to people right now from

16:42

Guam to the Cayman Islands of all kinds of backgrounds

16:44

all across the country. And I want people to

16:46

understand that very often when you're searching

16:49

for significance, by the way, that's exactly how

16:51

God designed us. We are supposed

16:53

to seek him, and that's where our significance

16:55

will be found. Paul says it beautifully in him

16:57

we live and move and have our being. The Bible tells

16:59

us if we seek God with all our heart, we will find

17:02

him so that seeking for

17:04

significance isn't by accident, by the way, we're

17:06

hardwired so that that journey

17:08

will end up our finding, our significance

17:10

in him. But it makes sense, doesn't it, that

17:12

an unearthly level, an a mortal level that

17:14

we would look for that affirmation

17:16

and that significance in the

17:19

arms of someone who's going to make us feel good or tells

17:21

us that they love us, even if it's the wrong

17:23

choice, even if it's only temporary. So that

17:25

hunger in the human heart. I want

17:27

you to not look at that as a negative, but as a positive

17:29

back after this. We're

17:37

visiting with Adrienne Johnson, who knows

17:40

Prager University full well because she happens to

17:42

be the chief of staff there, by the way.

17:44

And and I've got a link to her video

17:46

so that you can watch her tell her story of who

17:48

she was, not who she is today, but who she was.

17:51

And it's an absolutely fabulous story

17:53

and just reveals so much truth about

17:55

who we are as fallen mortals and

17:57

how desperately we need God, and how

17:59

he's not willing that any should perish. So

18:02

you try all of these relationships. That doesn't

18:04

work as well. You made the declaration at nine, Adrian,

18:06

that you said there is no God did

18:08

Did you dabble in any other worldviews

18:11

in that interim you talked about your mom and

18:13

New Age did, uh, did her

18:15

lifestyle have any influence on some of the choices

18:18

you made in this area?

18:20

Well, my mom was definitely new

18:22

Age, and she had a room in the house

18:24

that was full of stuff that I found really

18:26

fascinating, more because I think

18:28

it was my mom. Not so much because

18:31

of the significance of any of the things in

18:33

there. But, you know, she had a lot of crystals.

18:35

She had dreamcatchers, she

18:37

had rain sticks. Um, she

18:40

would go to a lot of different spiritual

18:42

centers. She tried a lot of

18:44

different things. She used to take

18:46

me starting when I was really young, like

18:48

four years old, to these free

18:51

form dance movement

18:53

events on, you know, Saturday

18:55

nights. She would take me with her, a bunch of people

18:57

rolling around in spandex on the floor,

19:00

and I just loved it. So, you know,

19:02

because she was my mom and she was fun

19:04

and all that stuff was really neat

19:06

to me when I was a kid. I

19:09

really enjoyed it, but it didn't have any spiritual

19:11

meaning to it. You know,

19:13

I was always an atheist

19:16

from a very, very young age. I

19:18

was always an atheist, and I even

19:20

was approached by someone when I was in

19:22

college. Um, I was at a coffee

19:24

shop in this, you know, nice man started

19:26

talking to me and I thought, oh, he was so pleasant

19:28

and sweet. And then about halfway

19:30

through the conversation, he mentioned Jesus,

19:33

and I don't remember exactly what he said,

19:35

but something about, you know, I just want you to know Jesus

19:37

loves you or something like that. And

19:39

at the time, I was very, very

19:41

put off by this. I felt very

19:43

tricked. I felt that it was a bait and switch.

19:46

I thought that it wasn't fair that he had been

19:48

so nice and then said to me, you

19:50

know, the reason I'm talking to you this way is because

19:52

of Jesus. Uh, I understand

19:54

now why, as an atheist, that

19:56

was so offensive to me.

19:58

You know, when you're in the dark and you're exposed to

20:00

the light, uh, it's very difficult

20:03

to be indifferent to

20:05

the truth and to the light.

20:08

Um, but at the time, I was, I was very

20:10

hostile. I was a very hostile atheist.

20:12

I was a very angry and cynical atheist.

20:15

I wasn't just a live and let

20:17

live atheist. Let's say that

20:19

looking.

20:19

Back now, when you categorize yourself

20:22

as not a passive, but an active atheist,

20:24

and there's a kind of, um, and I want

20:27

to use this word judiciously, but there's a

20:29

kind of a visceral response, whether it's external

20:31

or internalized, but there is nonetheless a kind

20:33

of measurable response there. Why do you think

20:35

that was? I mean, if you were so committed

20:37

to your belief that there is no God,

20:39

why would some, for example, let me flip

20:41

that around? As a Christian, if someone says to me, there is no God,

20:44

I'm not rattled by that, because I happen

20:46

to believe beyond the marrow of into

20:48

the marrow of my bones, and beyond a shadow of a doubt

20:50

that God is very much real. So I'm not.

20:52

It doesn't make me unstable

20:55

to hear somebody else's view. But if you had that kind

20:57

of a response, looking back, why do you think that was?

20:59

Well, that's a really great question. I mean,

21:01

I personally now as somebody

21:03

who who is a believer and

21:05

who does believe that Jesus is, you know,

21:07

the way, the truth and the life, uh,

21:10

it it makes sense

21:12

to me that there would be such offense

21:14

to it, um, because

21:17

truth comes back as true,

21:20

uh, you know, like it's impossible

21:22

to just be indifferent to

21:24

it. Uh, even though I may

21:26

have had my firm belief at the time,

21:29

uh, it was not founded

21:31

on truth. Uh, you know,

21:33

I thought that it was. I really

21:35

did believe in it. But now,

21:38

uh, to me, after the spiritual

21:40

transformation that I had, all of

21:42

that footing in atheism just completely

21:44

fell out from under me, so

21:46

the footing wasn't really there.

21:48

I thought it was at the time, but I don't

21:50

think it truly was.

21:52

Yeah, yeah, that's a great answer. So

21:54

let me go back to the fact, and you write so

21:56

beautifully on your website that you had a failed

21:58

marriage, you were immersed in self-loathing,

22:00

and you were experiencing what you called bottomless

22:03

despair. And before the break, you talked about

22:05

the fact that you really hit rock bottom.

22:07

You call it a clinical depression. Tell

22:09

me about that season of your life.

22:11

Oh, yeah. It was absolutely terrible.

22:14

I mean, I think looking back

22:16

on it, I basically had three

22:18

choices at the time. I

22:20

was so miserable. I fantasized

22:23

about killing myself all the time. I

22:25

just I was completely hopeless.

22:28

Um, and the thing that was so difficult

22:30

about it was that nothing externally

22:32

was wrong. You know, everything on the

22:34

outside actually looked quite wonderful.

22:37

I was, you know, in my mid

22:39

20s, I was married to somebody

22:41

who loved me, who was, you know,

22:43

intelligent and committed to me.

22:46

Uh, we started a business

22:48

together and it was doing quite well.

22:50

You know, there was really nothing

22:52

externally wrong in my life. And

22:54

yet I was miserable and just

22:56

wanted to kill myself. So I

22:59

think I had three choices. I think

23:01

I could have either gotten healthy, which

23:03

my ex-husband was begging

23:05

me to do. You know, please get

23:07

better. Please seek help. Go

23:09

go to therapy. You know, get medication,

23:12

like whatever you need to do. We'll go to couples counseling.

23:14

Like, you know, we wanted me to

23:16

get healthy. I had no interest in

23:18

getting healthy. I was not interested in getting

23:21

healthy. I only wanted to be a victim

23:23

and to complain about, you

23:25

know, how terrible everything was.

23:27

My second option was to actually kill

23:29

myself, which I thought about and fantasized

23:31

about constantly. And

23:33

my third option was to

23:36

act out and to basically

23:38

explode my life and

23:40

destroy everything that I had. And

23:42

that was the option that I selected.

23:44

So I began

23:47

an affair. I was unfaithful

23:49

in my marriage. I committed adultery,

23:51

um, this business that my ex-husband

23:53

and I had together was, you know, also

23:56

a victim of my blowing up my life,

23:59

uh, and my ex-husband,

24:01

uh, you know, he he really,

24:03

really loved me and wanted to stay with me,

24:05

but he said, I cannot let you do this to me,

24:08

and I'm leaving you. So

24:10

he had to go and be healthy. And then

24:12

I was left on my own in the

24:14

wreckage of what I had done,

24:16

and sort of woke up one day and

24:18

thought, uh, I've

24:20

made a terrible mistake. Well.

24:24

Adrian, you would have thought we scripted it to take a break.

24:26

At this point, I can't think of a more appropriate

24:28

place to stop and let people think about what you've

24:30

said thus far. You know, I think of the

24:32

saying that says even Joseph, when he was surrounded

24:34

in a pit, had nowhere to look but up.

24:37

That sounds like where we find you at when we return.

24:45

Friends, this is Janet Parshall, and I want to take a

24:47

moment to remind you that today's program is

24:49

prerecorded so our phone lines aren't open. But

24:51

I sure do appreciate your spending the hour with us.

24:53

And thanks so much and enjoy the rest of the program.

25:01

Are you the sort of person who likes to have the inside

25:03

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25:05

you become a partial partner, you're not only keeping this

25:07

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25:12

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Become a partial partner today by calling

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or go online to In the market

25:23

with Janet parshall.org.

25:27

We're spending the hour with Adrian Johnson.

25:29

Adrian got her Masters in Professional writing from

25:31

the University of Southern California. She

25:33

co-owned a business for a long time, a writing

25:36

business specializing in family legacy

25:38

documents and grant proposals. She went

25:40

on to become a paralegal in a major law firm

25:42

in LA, and then she

25:44

joined Prager U, where she became and

25:46

is now currently chief of staff. She

25:48

sits at the right hand of the CEO, and she oversees

25:51

a whole bunch of projects and a growing

25:53

staff. And I'm so thankful that Prager

25:55

U is doing so well out there, and her

25:57

video of her testimony is available for free

25:59

at the time at Prager U. So I want you to check it out,

26:01

but I want to Adrian, go right back to your story.

26:04

So everything is unraveling.

26:06

And you talked about the three choices that you had

26:08

and you chose to act out. That's so interesting because

26:10

I bet as people were listening, a lot of them would have said,

26:12

well, you were seriously

26:15

clinically depressed. I'm surprised that your option

26:17

wasn't suicide, but instead you

26:19

chose to act out. I want to linger here

26:21

because I think, again, this is revelatory of how

26:23

God has made you in a very special way.

26:25

So you're a deep thinker at the age of nine,

26:28

and if you're acting out, there's still spit and

26:30

vinegar in you there still fire in you. Even if

26:32

it was a destructive choice, there's

26:34

still this overwhelming desire to

26:36

keep going. So you talked about

26:38

acting out, you know, philosophy

26:41

101 ideas have consequences. Good ideas

26:43

have good consequences, bad ideas, bad consequences.

26:45

So what were some of the results of the choices

26:47

you made in this season of acting out?

26:50

Yeah, well, I basically just hit

26:52

rock bottom. I mean, uh, acting

26:54

out was at the time

26:56

the option that I chose, um, I

26:58

did not choose to get healthy and I did not

27:01

choose to end my life. Um,

27:03

but something had to change. I could

27:05

not stay in the state that I was in.

27:07

So when I acted out, I

27:10

basically just sort of went off the rails,

27:13

um, and was, you know, having

27:15

one night stands. I had an affair.

27:17

I was unfaithful in my marriage.

27:19

Um, the really crazy thing was then

27:22

after I completely blew up my

27:24

life and changed everything,

27:26

I changed where I lived. I changed

27:28

jobs because I threw away my own

27:31

business. Uh, and I thought

27:33

that that would make me happy. And again,

27:35

it didn't. It didn't last.

27:37

It didn't work. And then I got it in

27:39

my mind that I wanted back

27:42

exactly what I had just destroyed.

27:45

And that was a huge wake up

27:47

call. And I went, something is wrong with

27:49

me. I mean, I think I'm crazy. I

27:51

mean, this is this is the behavior

27:53

of an insane person. I just completely

27:55

destroyed my life that I had been,

27:57

you know, hating and crying about for

27:59

a year. And now I want it back.

28:02

Like, what is something is wrong with me?

28:04

I need help, I need help,

28:06

I give up, I don't know how to do this

28:08

life thing on my own. And so I basically

28:11

crawled on my hands and knees

28:13

to support groups for people

28:16

struggling with sex and love addiction.

28:18

That was my sort

28:20

of last ditch effort and the last

28:22

place I could. I mean, where, you know, what

28:24

else could I do? So I was

28:26

incredibly bitter and

28:29

I was incredibly ashamed

28:32

that this was my life. I was now approaching

28:34

30. I was, you know, on

28:37

about to get divorced and

28:40

living alone and going

28:42

to these groups for people struggling with sex

28:44

and love addiction. And I thought, this is not

28:47

the life that I had planned.

28:49

You know, I was always this real go getter.

28:51

I, you know, wanted, you know, had

28:53

dreams and aspirations. Um,

28:56

and then that all went out the window when I hit

28:58

my clinical depression, and nothing meant

29:00

anything. You know, no amount of success

29:02

would have made me happy or given

29:04

me meaning. Um, but

29:07

I was just completely at

29:09

the end. I was completely at the end. And

29:11

I went into these groups, and I really,

29:13

I don't even just believe they

29:15

saved my life. I know that they saved my

29:17

life. Um, but I went into

29:19

these groups and and the people there

29:21

said to me, you have to get some

29:23

kind of spiritual practice. You have to

29:25

have some kind of higher power.

29:27

I don't care what it is. You can try

29:29

all different kinds of stuff. You can try New

29:32

Age stuff, you know, Buddhist

29:34

stuff, you Jewish stuff. You can go to

29:36

church, you can go to temple, you

29:38

know, whatever. Just do yoga, do

29:40

anything and whatever feels good, do more

29:42

of that. Uh, now, saying this to

29:44

an atheist was extremely

29:47

uncomfortable. I didn't want to do

29:49

any of this. I didn't want to pray.

29:51

I didn't want to dabble in anything.

29:54

But I was in such a

29:56

desperate, hurting place

29:58

that I was willing to do whatever I

30:00

was told. So at

30:02

first I couldn't even pray out loud. I

30:04

mean, I was so embarrassed, even when

30:06

I was alone in my room or in my car,

30:08

I couldn't do it because I just felt so

30:11

silly, you know, talking out

30:13

loud to a god that didn't exist.

30:15

Uh, but when I started praying out

30:17

loud, it began by saying something like,

30:20

this is stupid and I'm all

30:22

alone and there's no one here, and I'm only

30:24

doing this because I was told to.

30:26

And that's how my prayer life began, was

30:28

with prayers like that. Just a

30:30

real, pure,

30:32

honest cry for help.

30:34

Totally. Where I was at, you know.

30:37

So how do you end up

30:39

in that crying out to what you think? Well,

30:42

I'll take the words

30:44

of a Christian writer, a great apologist who

30:46

said, the God who is not there, so you're in

30:48

your mind. This is like talking to Santa Claus. Going

30:50

back to what you said when we started our conversation.

30:52

So you're talking to a god, right? And

30:55

that's why I thought it was so interesting that you asked about Santa Claus,

30:57

because I think in your heart you were really saying, daddy, tell

30:59

me if God is real. And being a

31:01

philosopher, he probably would have had

31:03

to say no at the same time too. And

31:05

and he would have said, good, I'm affirming this now.

31:08

You're broken. You're crushed. Your words. You

31:10

talk about crushed bones. This is exactly where

31:12

you were in life. And you're calling out to a

31:14

god that you don't believe in and you're

31:16

fully convinced is not there.

31:18

But that's not where the story ends. How does

31:20

God become real to you?

31:21

Well, slowly, bit by bit.

31:24

I kept doing what I was told because

31:26

I was just so desperate that

31:28

I just kept putting one foot in front of the

31:30

other. And for the first time in my life,

31:32

after many, many, many years of

31:34

engaging in unhealthy behavior,

31:37

I was I was not engaging

31:39

in unhealthy behavior. I was not, you know, drinking

31:41

or smoking or doing drugs or having

31:44

sex or anything. I was just

31:46

alone, getting healthy

31:48

for the first time. I did not yet

31:50

believe in God, but I was sort of acting

31:52

as if, you know, you tell me to meditate,

31:54

I meditate, you tell me to do yoga, I do

31:57

yoga, you tell me to go to church, I go to church.

31:59

You tell me to go to, uh, you know,

32:01

uh, synagogue. I go to synagogue. I'll try

32:03

anything you want me to do. Buddhist chanting. I

32:06

kept especially being in Los Angeles,

32:09

uh, you know, sort of land of the New

32:11

age. There were so many opportunities to do

32:13

things like Kundalini yoga

32:15

and Sufi healings and Buddhist chanting,

32:18

and I tried all of it. You know, I just I

32:20

just kept saying yes and just kept putting one

32:22

foot in front of the other, kept taking the

32:24

next indicated action. And

32:26

even though it seemed silly in the beginning,

32:29

there was something to this God

32:31

thing. It was having a positive

32:33

effect on me. I was still in a great

32:35

deal of pain. This seeking

32:37

period lasted many, many months,

32:40

but I could tell

32:42

there was something working

32:44

here. This was better and

32:47

different than what I had done

32:49

in the past. I knew the old way wasn't

32:51

going to work again. You know, I couldn't.

32:53

I couldn't find another person

32:55

to complete me and make me whole. I had tried

32:58

that and I had failed many, many

33:00

times. So there

33:02

was something to this God thing and I just

33:04

kept doing it. I was sort of on a I

33:06

became a spiritual seeker for an entire

33:08

year. I was really on this spiritual

33:11

journey. By the end of that year,

33:13

I was in a very open place

33:15

where I didn't only want to be a

33:17

spiritual seeker, I wanted

33:19

to be a spiritual finder. I

33:21

wanted to find it. I wanted to

33:23

find the truth, I wanted, I

33:25

wanted more God. Now please

33:28

understand that was an entire year

33:30

long process that did not happen overnight.

33:33

I very gradually transformed

33:35

from an atheist to an

33:37

agnostic. You know, at first I

33:39

believed there was some kind of higher

33:42

power life force that

33:44

connects all of us. But the

33:46

thinking that this God would have some

33:48

kind of intelligence was

33:50

way too much for me to take on at the time.

33:52

I could accept a life force at one

33:55

point, but I couldn't accept an intelligent

33:57

creator. But you

33:59

know, step by step by step, I

34:01

kept getting closer and closer

34:03

and closer to God. And then at

34:05

the end of the year of this

34:07

spiritual journey, a friend

34:10

of mine invited me to see a play

34:12

of The Screwtape Letters by C.S.

34:14

Lewis. I had never heard of it. I

34:16

didn't know what it was. But I

34:18

love my friend and I love theater. So I

34:20

said yes, I'd be happy to join you. And

34:22

so we went and saw this play, and I walk

34:25

in and I open up the program and I go, let's

34:27

see, what is this about? What am I going to watch? And

34:29

the characters are God and

34:31

the devil. And I suddenly went,

34:33

what is this? What is this play I'm

34:35

about to watch? Uh, and when

34:37

I saw that play of The Screwtape Letters

34:39

with Max McLean put on

34:42

by fellowship for the Performing Arts,

34:44

that was the turning

34:46

point in my life that completely

34:49

blew me away, completely rocked

34:51

my worldview and sparked

34:53

that thing in me that had

34:56

me had to at least

34:58

consider Christianity

35:00

as an option, which for a former

35:02

atheist is the most ridiculous

35:04

thing to consider. But that play

35:07

was the thing that did it.

35:08

Well, let me just pause for a minute and just say, this

35:10

is why I love my friend Max McLane so much, and

35:12

it's exactly why he does what he does

35:15

through the fellowship of the Performing Arts. He

35:17

knows that he will draw an audience of people just exactly

35:19

like you, Adrian. People who love theater, people

35:21

who are going to hear a story, the power of

35:23

story, to be able to introduce

35:26

us to who God is and who His Son is as well.

35:28

And Screwtape is just wonderful because of this

35:30

great dialogue back and forth between Screwtape

35:32

and his protege, and whether or not hell is

35:34

real and whether or not God is real. What a wonderful,

35:37

wonderful place for someone who is, in your words,

35:39

spiritually open. So when we come back,

35:41

that spark got lit. That moment

35:44

of, aha, there's something here.

35:46

How does that become personal to you

35:48

in the person of Jesus Christ? I want to find

35:50

that out when we come back, by the way, not

35:53

just the video, but I want you to know that Adrian

35:55

has penned. You can tell she's a beautiful communicator.

35:57

She's put it all together in a book

35:59

called Rejoicing Crushed Bones

36:01

how a chain smoking, tobacco covered,

36:04

sexually promiscuous, suicidally

36:06

depressed, atheist Jew was

36:08

transformed by Jesus. Just

36:10

love that. That's why these are my favorite kind

36:12

of stories back after this. We're

36:29

talking with Adrian Johnson, who

36:32

is chief of staff at PragerU, and I'm

36:34

just riveted in the story of her conversion.

36:36

Adrian, when you were talking, particularly as we both

36:38

referenced Max McLean and The Screwtape

36:40

Letters, the performance he did through the fellowship

36:43

of the Performing Arts. He also

36:45

did the Most Reluctant Convert, the

36:47

story of Lewis coming to Faith as well, and

36:49

Lewis himself. And I was thinking about C.S.

36:51

Lewis during the entire course of our conversation

36:54

together. Lewis said that he was brought

36:56

into Christianity like a prodigal, and I'm quoting

36:58

Lewis kicking, struggling, resentful

37:00

and darting in his eyes in every

37:02

direction for a chance to escape

37:05

that. I kept thinking of that when you were

37:07

talking, and in the end, when he finally himself

37:09

goes from atheist to believer, calls

37:11

himself initially the most reluctant

37:13

convert, Max turns that into a play. He

37:15

also turned into a movie. If you haven't seen the movie,

37:18

please do it. It is absolutely outstanding.

37:20

So Adrian, it's the play. Kind

37:22

of the lights go on, the shades get lifted.

37:24

there. Sunshine coming in through the front door.

37:26

But it's it still has to be made

37:29

personalized for you in your own life. Tell me about

37:31

that.

37:31

Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, God

37:34

had to prove himself to me intellectually.

37:37

You know, some people have a very spiritual

37:39

experience. Some people have what you might call

37:42

a white light road to Damascus

37:44

moment. That was not the case for me.

37:46

I was a cynical

37:48

atheist who believed in logic

37:50

and reason my entire life, and

37:52

so God had to prove himself to me intellectually.

37:55

And that is exactly what he did through

37:57

things like C.S. Lewis,

37:59

which completely changed my life. The Screwtape

38:01

Letters, reading Mere Christianity

38:04

I love C.S. Lewis, and I identify

38:06

with him so much as a former atheist, and

38:08

I too was a very, very reluctant convert.

38:11

Also kicking and screaming, you know, please

38:13

God, anything but this. I will

38:15

be a Buddhist. I will be a Jew. I

38:17

will be a I will be a Sufi.

38:19

I mean, I'll do anything,

38:21

just not Jesus,

38:23

please. Uh, but

38:25

in this time, after I saw

38:27

that play, I actually reached out

38:30

to fellowship for the Performing Arts to let

38:32

them know that they are actually fulfilling

38:34

their mission through people like

38:36

me. You you know, people who are seeking

38:38

and then get exposed to a Christian idea

38:41

through this Christian worldview. And,

38:43

uh, and it's affecting them. And so

38:45

God kept putting people in my path.

38:48

Uh, Max became sort of a spiritual

38:50

mentor of mine. And then God

38:53

kept saying, go talk to this

38:55

person, go have coffee with this person.

38:57

And I just kept reading

38:59

and learning and talking.

39:01

And the more I did, the more

39:03

it was like truth was

39:06

just ringing inside of

39:08

my being like a bell, you know, like

39:10

I was being covered and washed in

39:12

water. It was just it felt

39:14

so real and true to

39:16

me, like this truth that I had been longing

39:19

for my entire life and

39:21

had been trying to fill with other

39:23

things. And for the first time

39:25

I was actually finding it.

39:27

You know, I wasn't just spiritually

39:30

seeking, I was spiritually finding.

39:32

I was finding the answer. And so

39:34

in that time, I actually found a church

39:37

in Los Angeles. Um,

39:39

I actually found a community

39:41

group, a home group, a Bible study where

39:44

I made some really wonderful friendships.

39:47

Uh, and I actually made amends

39:49

to my ex-husband in this time.

39:52

Uh, I met with him in person

39:54

after not having any communication

39:56

for two years, and

39:58

I took responsibility and ownership

40:00

for all of the harm and the damage

40:02

that I had caused him. Uh,

40:04

and that was sort of a

40:06

very necessary chapter

40:09

of my life that had to come to a close.

40:11

Um, and then once that happened,

40:14

I was able to move on. And

40:16

then in my church and in my new

40:18

Bible study group, I had a friend

40:20

who, in fact was praying

40:22

at the very minute that I

40:24

was making my amends to my ex-husband,

40:27

and he was saying, Lord, whatever

40:29

you decide to do, I

40:31

trust you. But I really like this girl.

40:34

And then, uh, God brought

40:36

us together my My my new husband

40:38

and I, we we met at church. He's also

40:40

a Christian, you know, obviously

40:42

like me. But he also had a

40:45

very, uh, dark

40:47

and difficult past. And

40:49

God worked on us individually

40:51

and healed us. And then when the time

40:53

was ready, he brought us together.

40:56

Um, I was baptized in the church.

40:58

And then about a year later,

41:01

was it a year later? About a year or two later,

41:03

my husband and I were married. And

41:06

miracle of miracles, we

41:09

saved ourselves until our wedding

41:11

night, which, as somebody

41:13

who was a former sex and love

41:15

addict who went from one

41:17

night stand to one night stand, this

41:19

is, you know, if that's not a miracle,

41:22

that was only because of God.

41:24

I don't know what is.

41:26

Wow. Oh, I cannot tell you how many times I've

41:28

gotten tears in my eyes listening to you this hour.

41:31

Adrian, there are people listening who think that they've

41:33

just stumbled on this conversation. I love it when people

41:35

think that because I don't think God is a God of coincidences,

41:38

but like you, they are kicking and

41:40

struggling and darting their eyes in every

41:42

direction for a chance to escape that

41:44

that infinite abyss in their life

41:47

has not been filled, and they want to try

41:49

anything and anyone but Jesus.

41:51

What would you say to them?

41:52

I would just say it's never too

41:54

late. You know, I really know what it's

41:56

like to be in the pit of despair. And at

41:58

the time I thought, well, that's it.

42:01

You know, I ruined my chance. I ruined my

42:03

chance at happiness. I'm too old now.

42:05

I'll never have what I want. I'll never be

42:07

a mom. I'll never get married.

42:09

I'll never have all of these things in life that

42:12

I think I want. Um. and

42:15

for me, I just know from my

42:17

personal experience that, you

42:19

know, God, God

42:22

is a gift of desperation.

42:24

And it is okay to come

42:26

to him completely broken, completely

42:29

desperate, and just say

42:31

help. Um, I learned

42:34

when I was in these groups something. I

42:36

mean, I learned so many amazing things. One of

42:38

the things that really stuck with me is that

42:40

there are only two prayers that you really

42:42

need help and thank

42:45

you. And really, if you just

42:47

call out to God to help,

42:49

you know he does not promise to to

42:52

change your situation. He doesn't promise

42:54

to make things better, but he does

42:56

promise to never leave us or forsake

42:59

us. And he will get down in

43:01

the trenches with us. He won't

43:03

necessarily pull us out of the trenches,

43:05

but he will get in the trenches with

43:07

us and he will go through the pain with

43:09

us. And if you just call on him

43:11

for help, he is

43:14

there. He's there right now. He's there.

43:16

If you whisper to him, if you cry to him,

43:18

if you curse and kick and scream

43:21

and fight, he is there. And

43:23

so I would just encourage anyone,

43:25

you know, like, why not? Why

43:27

not try it? All you have to lose is your pride.

43:30

I know for me that was really hard

43:32

letting go of that pride. That was probably

43:34

the biggest obstacle to it. But when

43:36

I did and I said yes to him,

43:38

it completely freed me and it completely

43:41

changed my life. Wow.

43:43

Oh, Adrian, you just

43:45

beautifully gave that absolute

43:48

answer to that person who's got

43:50

that infinite abyss. You also just beautifully

43:52

underscored why, of all the people I have the privilege

43:54

of talking to, stories like yours are the ones

43:56

that matter most. Those stories of transformation,

43:59

no matter how far we've fallen, no matter how

44:01

dark the pit we're in, that he

44:03

stands there, ready to throw out that lifeline

44:06

and to rescue us. I was thinking also

44:08

in your life's a beautiful testimony to this, how

44:10

he always can bring beauty out of

44:12

ashes. And he's done that so

44:14

over and over again in your life. What a

44:16

joy. I hope I get the chance to shake your

44:18

hand and hug you this side of glory, but

44:20

I'm looking forward to spending eternity with you because

44:22

of what Christ has done for both of us. Thank

44:25

you Adrian. What a wonderful conversation.

44:27

Think about what she had to say and if you haven't

44:29

answered the question of who is Jesus?

44:31

Maybe this conversation is going to cause you to

44:33

think just a little dip deeper.

44:36

Thank you friends. We'll see you next time.