0:02

Hey folks, you're listening to Inherited,

0:05

a sound rich, solutions focused,

0:08

youth storytelling podcast about the climate

0:10

crisis. I'm Shaila Martos,

0:13

your season three host. In

0:15

episode four, Emma Shulman shared

0:18

the voices of three women working to

0:20

provide domestic abuse survivors with

0:23

resources and support after the 2021

0:26

Marshall Fire in Colorado.

0:29

If you haven't heard Emma's episode one day at a

0:31

time, go listen right now. Emma

0:35

and I actually worked together in the newsroom

0:37

at YRMedia, and we made some

0:39

time to chat about

0:41

her journey in news production so far,

0:44

how the story about SPAN came to be, and

0:47

her goals for the future. Here's

0:49

Emma Shulman.

0:55

My name is Emma Shulman. My pronouns

0:57

are she, her, and I am

0:59

a student at CU Boulder, and

1:02

then I'm also a journalist

1:04

in the newsroom. In the newsroom here at

1:06

YRMedia. Yeah. I've been working

1:09

with you for, what is it, almost a year now?

1:12

And I've seen you grow immensely,

1:14

Emma, since we started working together in the YRMedia

1:17

newsroom. So, can you tell me just

1:19

a bit about what you've been doing

1:22

in YR and how

1:24

this new venture into audio and podcasting

1:26

has challenged you?

1:28

Well, first and foremost, I think that all formats,

1:30

like writing and storytelling, are fun for me.

1:33

Like, I've never had a bad experience,

1:35

and I think if you are having one, then

1:37

something needs to change. But

1:40

I think probably it's been the transition

1:42

from thinking, okay, this is how people

1:44

are going to see this thing, you know, and this is

1:46

how people are going to hear this thing. But

1:48

I think that that's been kind of the challenge, but it's also

1:51

been fun just to think about how,

1:54

you know, you use the things, the two

1:56

things differently.

1:57

Yeah, because how people take in.

2:00

stories over audios

2:02

very different from when they read it. I

2:04

have other questions that are specifically about inherited,

2:07

but I'm wondering if you could just say a little bit

2:09

about your journey in YR.

2:11

Because when I met you, you were just

2:13

coming into the newsroom for the first time,

2:16

hadn't had something published online, and look

2:18

at you now.

2:19

Yeah. I think that, first

2:22

and foremost, not to continue to be like,

2:24

give YR more praise. I

2:26

talk to you about you guys all of the time, because

2:29

I think that, well, number one, you guys really

2:31

did help me, I think, in a lot of ways,

2:33

too. Just realize this

2:35

is your strengths, this is things that you can work

2:38

on. I didn't think, too, that

2:40

it was possible to

2:42

get paid this early on

2:44

as a journalist. So that's really

2:46

cool. Well, I'm

2:49

so glad to see you grow

2:51

into these new challenges

2:53

with podcasting. We

2:58

are talking in an early

3:00

space in your production. You've

3:02

done a lot of reporting, and

3:04

you're in your second draft of your script

3:07

right now, which is still early. I'm

3:10

wondering at this point in time, your

3:13

story has changed

3:15

a lot since what you originally thought.

3:18

What was your original pitch and how did it

3:20

change? I think when I originally

3:23

started, and I think we all do

3:25

this in a way, we have the idea

3:27

of how we visualize it in our head. We

3:30

do that thing of, okay, this is exactly

3:32

how it's going to go. Then we all know it's

3:34

not going to go exactly that way

3:36

deep down, even though we like to imagine

3:38

it as such. I think I

3:40

would say that it's probably

3:43

changed from, I

3:45

thought I was going to have six sources

3:47

for some reason, I had it obviously did

3:49

not happen. I think that was for the best, too. I think

3:51

it's better to follow along with fewer

3:54

people and get more in-depth coverage. Sometimes

3:56

best to hone in. Yeah, I think

3:58

that's how it's changed.

3:59

I've honed in a lot more too. I think

4:02

I knew that hearing it would be impactful,

4:05

but I didn't realize like,

4:07

oh, like this is what it was like for

4:09

all these people. Like it clicked.

4:11

Well, and I mean, it's such a, it's such a sensitive

4:14

topic and how natural disasters

4:16

affects domestic violence

4:18

survivors. That doesn't get a lot of attention in the

4:21

media. And you did a lot

4:23

of reporting and really built relationships

4:26

with the people inside its span.

4:30

I'm just wondering if you have any

4:32

advice for like other young folks that are kind of trying

4:34

to work on a story that is more sensitive,

4:37

that is about people who are at risk. What

4:39

kind of things did you learn that you may

4:42

take to your next story or that you

4:44

would suggest for another person?

4:46

Sometimes your simpler questions are a lot better

4:49

than like, you're more like complex

4:51

questions because that's the thing too

4:53

is you'll get number one, we'll get more information kind

4:56

of people, but also number two, I think

4:58

people kind of just understand it easier

5:00

if that makes sense. Like people

5:03

are just like, okay, like maybe

5:05

like they have a thing that they really kind of want to talk about.

5:07

And that simple question gives them the space

5:09

to really like kind of flow more.

5:12

A lot of people have a lot of trouble representing

5:15

at risk communities in a very like

5:17

effective and equitable way.

5:19

How are you trying to do that

5:21

in your own story? How are you trying to make space

5:23

for these survivors? Like there's one

5:26

person that is a survivor, but they weren't in the martial fire

5:28

because they had left that relationship

5:31

before and it was in a different state.

5:33

We're more talking to people who are

5:35

working with survivors than we are the survivors themselves.

5:38

I think that they were willing to talk

5:40

where I think sometimes with domestic violence

5:42

survivors, you might not always be able to get

5:44

that for a variety of reasons. One

5:47

being that they really are putting

5:49

their life on the line by doing

5:50

that. One of the things we

5:52

know to be true about abusers is they're very,

5:54

very, very good at stalking and

5:57

because of that, that

5:58

puts a lot of those people. even if

6:00

you do a lot of work to try to protect them,

6:03

there is always the possibility that

6:05

they could find them through that. So

6:08

there's always a risk for them, but also number two, a

6:10

lot of the people who are working there just

6:12

saw the effects

6:15

of just the organization and also how

6:18

the organization was also affecting the survivors

6:21

and kind of almost that trickle down effect. Well,

6:24

and how did it feel for you

6:26

developing a relationship with the people at SPAN?

6:29

What was that like as a reporter? Honestly,

6:32

it was really, I don't know if this is

6:34

something I also thought I would get to do this

6:36

really on either. So it was really

6:38

special too. And I'm glad, I

6:41

hope they also

6:42

like developing a relationship with me as well,

6:44

which I know sounds very like, please like

6:47

me, but at the same time, it's

6:49

also, I don't know, it's just really great.

6:53

And it's been,

6:54

again, the situation that these people were

6:57

in was not fun, but for

6:59

me, it's also been a lot of fun. And I

7:01

don't know how else to say that, but

7:03

I hope it makes sense. Well,

7:05

I think that that's something that a lot

7:07

of younger journalists

7:09

face is that they wanna talk about

7:11

these really tough topics and

7:13

they wanna do it fairly and they want

7:15

to make everyone feel represented

7:17

well. At the same time, you're learning and

7:20

you're doing cool things,

7:22

right? So there's this

7:24

kind of like odd space in between where

7:27

you're learning and you're growing, but it's also,

7:30

you're growing in the production

7:32

of a story that is very, very heavy.

7:35

Were there any moments where

7:38

you were just like taken aback in particular

7:40

that really spoke to you or some of

7:42

your favorite experiences with the

7:45

story?

7:46

Oh gosh, probably when I was interviewing

7:48

Sinemi,

7:50

because she was, thankfully she did not

7:53

lose her home, but she almost did. It was like very,

7:55

very close and she evacuated. And

7:58

I was just talking to her and she's

7:59

Also, she's a psychotherapist.

8:02

So she's helping the client, so

8:04

their trauma while also dealing with it and all

8:06

this different stuff. And she's trying to get out.

8:09

And she's just like on the phone with these

8:11

people and just hearing her experience, so just seeing

8:13

like the array of like black smoke and just

8:15

realizing, oh crap, like I

8:17

gotta go. Like I think that that

8:20

was probably, that was really the experience

8:22

for me

8:23

of that, of just being really taken back.

8:26

Hey, I'm Johanna Wagstaff. And hi there, I'm

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If someone told you to jump off a cliff, would

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But there is something to be said about leaping

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I wanted to ask you why you...

9:59

You thought of fires

10:01

affecting domestic violence survivors

10:04

anyways. Honestly, Emma, that

10:07

came out of left field for me personally

10:09

reading your pitch going like, whoa,

10:11

this is something that we don't talk about enough.

10:14

And it's something that is sitting right in front of us, but for

10:16

some reason we don't see. Okay,

10:18

so I had, so

10:20

my great-great-grandma Marion, basically

10:23

she did deal with a really heavy

10:25

domestic violence situation in our

10:27

house and seeing

10:29

how that I know has affected

10:31

other people and has affected

10:34

because so my mom

10:36

was really had a really close relationship

10:39

with her. And

10:41

he, I don't, of course, see past before

10:43

I really got to know her, but

10:46

I know how that affected

10:48

my mom. So I became passionate about

10:50

the issue of domestic violence because of,

10:52

in part because of my great-grandma and

10:55

then just other things that kind of happened throughout

10:57

life and stuff and also just the

11:00

rise of like me too and all that. And

11:02

then I think then

11:04

because of like all the different research and stuff

11:06

that I did over it, I also realized too, like,

11:09

okay, this is how this thing works with

11:11

climate change because I follow UN Women

11:13

on Instagram too. And I follow like all

11:16

like the organizations as

11:18

a good little journalist does.

11:20

And basically I think I realized

11:22

like, no, this is an issue that like, I

11:24

think I would really like to talk about as

11:27

an issue that affects so many people, including

11:29

like stated my great-grandma. Well,

11:31

and I think it was just like kind of

11:33

including the fires that were

11:35

happening in Colorado that

11:38

really narrows it down. And to narrow it down even

11:40

further, so not only is it domestic

11:42

abuse survivors that have been impacted by climate

11:45

change, but it's domestic abuse survivors

11:47

who have been impacted by the fires in Colorado

11:49

to

11:50

even deeper the

11:52

people who get resources at

11:54

this particular organization in Colorado

11:58

who are facing domestic abuse. abuse.

12:00

So I think that was just like a really

12:02

solid way to hone

12:05

in this huge

12:07

crappy thing.

12:10

And to do it in a way that you as a

12:12

brand new podcaster

12:13

could come in and do your best. And I'm

12:16

just like so proud of you for that. Right.

12:18

So the deeper you go into the more

12:21

particular, the more specific you can get, actually

12:24

more people can identify with it because

12:26

it is more human.

12:27

What do you think is a problem in

12:30

news coverage of people

12:32

experiencing domestic violence that

12:34

needs to be changed? Oh gosh,

12:36

there's so many. Well, for one,

12:39

I think you still see the headlines that

12:41

are still like kind of victim blaming

12:43

me in a lot of ways. I also

12:46

think that we don't like to think

12:48

that these issues affect

12:51

us, I think. But I think we like to stay

12:53

in our own little happy bubble, which

12:55

is fair. It's not realistic

12:58

to think that we should always be thinking about the things, especially

13:00

because it's depressing to always think about these things.

13:02

Right. I hope this would

13:04

go without saying, but don't ask victim

13:07

blaming questions. If you need

13:09

documentation of some kind, maybe just be really

13:12

sensitive about that and what that could

13:14

mean for that. That makes sense. And

13:17

how do you help yourself be more trauma

13:19

informed as a reporter?

13:21

Really by thinking, well, number one,

13:23

people aren't defined by this. No

13:26

person is just one experience.

13:29

Like you want to ask questions that

13:32

surround the person, not just on the specific

13:36

situation that has caused them pain, but

13:38

there are so many other things that are before that are

13:40

after that are in their lives. That is

13:43

like stuff you also need to focus on. Am I

13:45

am I on the right track here? Yeah. So

13:48

Emma, do you have any more advice you'd like to give

13:50

to young climate storytellers?

13:52

Don't give up on your story. I mean, things will always

13:55

get difficult to at times, but just

13:57

keep going. It's very cliche advice. That's

13:59

what I'd like to ask.

13:59

I would say. Thank you, Emma. The

14:02

most important question of any

14:04

journalist, that any journalist can ask any

14:06

source, I'm sure you know the answer. Yeah.

14:09

What is it? Anything else you'd like to add?

14:13

Is there anything else you'd like to add, Emma? Anything

14:15

else you'd like to say?

14:17

Not right now. This is a topic

14:19

I could spend all day on, so this is

14:21

probably a good place to end. All right. Well,

14:24

thank you so much, Emma. I really appreciate

14:26

having you here with me. And

14:28

it's been such a pleasure working with you throughout

14:31

this season of Inherited.

14:36

Thank you for joining us for this bonus episode.

14:39

Season three of Inherited continues Wednesdays

14:42

wherever you get your podcasts.

14:44

Next week, we travel to a future

14:46

world with Reese Wartmoor, where

14:49

our technology and our Earth's biology

14:51

work in tandem. Inherited

14:54

is brought to you by YR Media, a national

14:56

network of young journalists and artists creating

14:59

content for this generation. We're

15:01

distributed by Critical Frequency, a podcast

15:04

network founded by women journalists.

15:06

For more information about our show, team,

15:09

and storytellers, visit our website at

15:11

yr.media slash inherited.

15:14

See you next week.