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You're listening to the Inside the Mix podcast

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with your host , Mark Matthews .

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Hello and welcome to the Inside the Mix podcast

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. I'm Mark Matthews , your host , musician

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, producer and mix and mastering engineer

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. You've come to the right place if you want to know

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more about your favorite synth music artists

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, music engineering and production , songwriting

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and the music industry . I've

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been writing , producing , mixing and mastering music for

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over 15 years and I want to share what

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I've learned with you . Hello

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, folks , and welcome to the Inside the

0:30

Mix podcast . If you are a new listener

0:32

, make sure you hit follow on your podcast

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Player of Choice and if you're watching this

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on YouTube , make sure you hit that subscribe

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button and that notification bell so you get notified

0:41

any time that a new episode

0:44

of the podcast drops . And to my returning

0:46

listeners , a big welcome back , as always

0:49

. I've made a purchase for the podcast

0:51

. I've invested in a Shure SM7B

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and this is the first time that I'm

0:56

using it on the podcast . I'm using it in this

0:58

intro not in the actual interview that

1:00

we're about to go into , but in this intro itself

1:02

and I'm still trying to work out whether or not

1:04

I want to use the built-in pre-app

1:06

on the actual microphone , because

1:09

it gives me I've got the option between 18

1:11

dB and 27 or 28 dB

1:13

, I think it is , or alternatively , at the moment

1:15

I've got it running just using the juice from

1:18

my interface , which seems to be more than enough

1:20

. I haven't quite worked out which way I want to do it yet

1:22

, but with my voice being quite loud

1:24

as it is , I'm finding that I'm not needing

1:27

a pre-app . So there

1:29

is one built into this microphone , but you can get

1:31

the version with a cloud lifter , for example . But

1:33

keep an eye out . I may release a video where I'm A-being

1:36

it who knows but at the moment really enjoying

1:38

it . It's very , very nice . It's a very nice microphone

1:40

. So in this episode of the podcast

1:42

, I am joined by Jen Fritz of Fritz

1:45

Media and the FM podcast

1:47

and we discuss digital music

1:49

marketing strategies for independent artists

1:51

and what that might look like in 2024

1:54

. We talk about navigating changing landscapes

1:57

and the ever-evolving world of digital music

1:59

marketing and some key trends or shifts

2:01

that Jen has observed in 2024

2:03

and what you , the independent artist

2:05

and producer , should be aware of . We talk about

2:07

social media strategies , algorithms , constantly

2:10

changing , what strategies that Jen recommends

2:12

for independent artists to maximize

2:14

their reach and engagement on platforms like

2:17

TikTok and Instagram . We discuss artists

2:19

in 2024 pulling back from

2:21

social media . We discuss the constant

2:23

dilemma are we artists or

2:25

are we content creators , or are we something

2:28

in between ? And then we discuss what long-term

2:30

music marketing strategies should

2:32

artists employ to build a sustainable

2:35

career in music , and how can artists

2:37

cultivate a loyal fan base

2:39

and monetize their music effectively

2:41

and efficiently in 2024?

2:43

. And then we wrap things up with Jen's one

2:45

key piece of advice for artists navigating

2:48

the evolving landscape of digital music

2:50

marketing . So that's enough waffle for me

2:52

, so let's dive into this episode with Jen Fritz

2:54

of Fritz Media and the FM podcast

2:56

. Hey folks , and in this episode

2:59

I'm very excited to welcome my

3:01

guest today , jen Fritz

3:03

of Fritz Media and

3:06

the FM podcast . Hi Jen , thanks

3:08

for joining me today , and how are you ?

3:10

Oh , hello , I'm doing . Great Thanks

3:12

for asking . As I was saying

3:14

off mic , I've got a little bit of a cold or

3:16

something , so my voice is a little raspier

3:19

than usual . So you know

3:21

, enjoy that .

3:22

Yeah , it's one of those ones . We

3:24

got lean closer into the microphone as well

3:26

, so you can fully extenuate the

3:29

raspiness of your voice

3:31

. No but no , thanks for joining me today . It's always nice to

3:33

have another podcast on the podcast

3:35

as well At least at all . I need to

3:37

do more of it .

3:38

Right .

3:39

Well , yeah , there , exactly , yes , yeah , we were discussing

3:41

that off air , weren't we about the difference in microphones

3:43

that people use and whatnot ? So yeah

3:46

, 100% . So a bit of . I'm just

3:48

going to read through your bio that I've got here . That's

3:50

been summarized so you got a deep

3:52

rooted passion for music , cultivated from

3:54

a diverse upbringing surrounded by Willie Nelson and

3:56

ABBA . That's quite a ABBA

3:58

is . My parents tried to drill ABBA into me

4:00

growing up . They still maintain that

4:02

ABBA is the major influence

4:05

on me and I'm into heavy metal and I don't

4:07

see them . They

4:09

still maintain it . So

4:11

your journey began in radio , progressing through various

4:14

roles and stations across Alberta and British Columbia

4:16

. Transitioning to Vancouver , you

4:18

embarked on a career in the music industry

4:21

, initially at network and New Music

4:23

West , before serving as VP of media relations

4:25

at Frontside Group , and in 2009

4:28

, jen ventured

4:30

into freelance publicity , collaborating

4:32

with esteemed clients such as the Vancouver 2010

4:34

Olympics and Sony Music Entertainment

4:36

, and this experience culminated

4:39

in the establishment of

4:41

your own music publicity

4:43

and digital marketing firm , fritz Media

4:46

, which is why I've got you on the

4:48

podcast today , because we're going to be talking about digital

4:50

music , music marketing . Put my teeth back

4:52

in for independent artists

4:54

and what that might look like in 2024

4:57

.

4:58

Yeah , exciting stuff . Yeah , I'm excited to be here

5:00

. Thanks so much for having me on .

5:02

No , it's my pleasure . It's my pleasure . So I think it'd be

5:04

quite cool to start with sort of navigating

5:06

the changing landscape . So

5:08

I think it might be good if you could sort of talk about the ever

5:11

evolving world of digital music marketing

5:13

. So what are some key trends or shifts I

5:16

know it's early in the year , but that you've observed

5:18

in 2024 , that independent artists

5:20

should be aware of ?

5:22

I think you know you say that the ever-revolving

5:24

digital landscape , I mean and that's

5:26

really important because , like when I

5:28

started actually doing publicity , as

5:30

you said , like I started in radio , I

5:33

made the switch from radio to

5:36

, you know , the music industry

5:38

in about 2003

5:40

. And you know , if I even

5:42

think back to 2003 , and when I

5:44

started doing publicity and you know

5:46

I was doing radio promotion as well when I first

5:48

started what my job

5:50

was then and what my job is

5:52

now in 2024

5:55

are to completely different

5:57

jobs . If you just

5:59

think back to even , you know , even

6:02

10 years ago and think about

6:04

it , like there was

6:06

more music journalists

6:09

that I could pitch there

6:11

, you know there were music journalists

6:14

on newspapers , there were music , there were

6:16

more music blogs , there was more

6:18

places for me to get really

6:20

good editorial content for my

6:22

clients . Even 10 years

6:24

ago , social media wasn't the same as it is

6:26

now . It was different . And

6:30

then you know , when I started there was no social media

6:32

. So , essentially , as the

6:34

years progress , my job has become more

6:36

and more and more and more and

6:38

it's just like it feels like there's

6:41

one more thing to add to the plate , and

6:43

I really think that that's how artists feel

6:45

as well . It's just one

6:47

more thing to add to the list Like , it's like you

6:49

have to make the music , but on top

6:52

of that , you're expected to

6:54

also create all of this content online

6:56

, and I think that there's actually a really

6:58

big pushback about that right now , because

7:00

it's like what am I ? Am I creating

7:02

music or am I creating content , or am

7:05

I creating both ? And I think a lot of artists

7:07

kind of get stuck in the weeds on

7:09

that and kind of forget why they're making

7:11

music in the first place , right , like

7:13

they're too . They can get

7:15

wrapped up and , you know , trying to go viral on TikTok

7:18

or trying to make something happen on

7:20

Instagram , and you

7:23

know it has to start with good

7:25

music at the core , right

7:28

. So that should be your

7:30

focus first and foremost

7:32

. So , you know , going

7:35

back to your point of you know , what kind of trends

7:37

are we going to see this year ? I

7:40

, you know . I mean , I

7:42

think we're going to see more of a pullback

7:45

from artists on social media

7:47

. Personally , I think

7:49

a lot of artists are getting fed up with

7:51

it . You know , there are

7:54

those artists there's TikTok artists that specifically

7:56

make music and do it on TikTok

7:58

, and good , that's great , that's , that's the platform

8:01

for them . But I think that

8:03

you know I say this to our clients

8:05

you don't have to be there

8:07

. You can find a platform that works

8:10

for you , like , if your fans

8:12

are on Instagram , sit

8:14

on Instagram and make your content there and speak directly

8:17

to them . Don't worry about

8:19

you know , making what's

8:21

trending on TikTok , trying to hop on the trends

8:23

. You know all of that

8:25

because we all know how time consuming that is

8:27

. We know how long it takes to make that content

8:30

for something that may not get looked at by

8:32

anybody , to be honest , and

8:34

so you know

8:36

it's important to like

8:38

, focus your time to where you

8:40

think people are going to appreciate

8:43

it and see it . Yeah

8:45

, so that's like , that's just like

8:47

one trend .

8:48

I see I mean I could be wrong , you

8:51

know , but you know , I was going to say

8:53

that what you said there perfectly

8:55

resonates with me as an individual , to

8:57

be honest , because I'm an artist as well and

8:59

I release music as an artist

9:02

and producer and with the podcast . And it's interesting

9:04

you mentioned about pulling back from

9:06

social media , because I was quite heavy

9:09

on it last year in terms of promoting the podcast

9:11

mainly , and then I released an EP and

9:13

I was focusing on that for a set

9:15

period of time , but it got to the beginning

9:17

of the year and I was just I was quite drained

9:20

, to be honest , of social media and

9:22

I thought you know what , I'm going to take a step back

9:24

. I'm still going to put new podcast episodes

9:27

and promote the podcast episodes and whatnot , but

9:29

I'm just because it's like

9:31

you mentioned . I think at one point I had the mindset

9:34

of okay , I'm going to use this trending audio

9:36

because I want this , this particular reel

9:38

or TikTok video , to hopefully

9:40

maybe didn't but go viral

9:42

. But then I thought to myself well , is that

9:44

actually what I want it to do ? Is that the end

9:47

goal here ? Because then what do I do with all that virality

9:49

? I mean , like , am I then , like you

9:51

said , am I then a content creator rather

9:53

than a podcaster or an artist

9:55

, and I was stuck trying to figure out

9:57

what I was .

9:58

Yeah , I think that it's really important

10:01

as an artist when approaching

10:03

your social media , you know

10:05

strategy or plan to think about

10:07

. What do I want out of this ? Like

10:10

that's a really good starting point , because

10:13

you know a lot of artists don't know that

10:16

and you know , just like

10:18

step back and go . Okay , what

10:20

am I trying to do here ? Am I trying to get

10:22

more fans ? Am I trying to connect with my fans

10:25

? What do I want people

10:27

to know about me ? How much do I want to

10:29

share ? You know you can get a

10:31

long way with just being

10:34

an authentic person and

10:36

sharing a bit of yourself with

10:39

people , instead of trying

10:41

hard to do TikTok , trending

10:43

dances or whatever you're doing . The

10:47

thing with that and I see it all the time

10:49

speaking to TikTok is people

10:51

can see when you're in

10:54

authentic and people can see when you're trying

10:56

too hard . And I think that comes across more particularly

11:00

with Reels and with TikTok , with video content , because

11:02

people aren't used to being in

11:05

front of a camera . It's not like the thing that they like , that's

11:08

not what they got into the game for

11:11

. So it's , you know , and

11:13

that's a skill . It's a skill to be okay on camera , it's a skill to

11:15

do that

11:18

right . And I just I see a lot of

11:20

artists are like , oh well , my label told me to be on TikTok , so

11:23

I got to be on TikTok . I'm just trying so hard to do something and they're not

11:25

going to do something

11:27

and they're not quite sure what it is that

11:29

they're doing , right . So think

11:32

about it . Just think about what you're trying

11:34

to say , and you

11:36

know what's unique about you

11:38

aside from your music . Like , what's something

11:41

? Because everybody's got something . You

11:43

know what makes you you . What

11:46

do you think that would connect with

11:48

your audience ? You know

11:50

, do they want to maybe hear you talk

11:53

about ? Oh , I just thought of this idea of a new song

11:55

and you know you play a little bit of it on

11:57

reels . Is that something that's going to connect

11:59

? Or you know , or

12:02

hey , you know , oh my God , I just discovered this

12:04

new band . Like , if you're a music lover , I think

12:06

that that goes a long way . That kind of content I love

12:08

to hear from artists Like , oh

12:11

my God , have you heard of this band ? Check it out . Like

12:14

they're so cool . That

12:16

kind of stuff goes a long way too

12:18

. And you know , sometimes we don't think about those sort

12:21

of things because they seem too simple , but they're so

12:23

easy and it's such an easy connection

12:25

as well , right ?

12:48

Yeah , it's all great stuff and I totally go

12:50

with what you said there when you mentioned about

12:52

like knowing what you want to use

12:54

it for . And I had this conversation

12:56

with an artist called Sunglasses

12:59

Keel and it wasn't on the podcast episode but we discussed

13:01

it off air and he said to me because

13:03

he'd gone viral , basically with this yeah , I listened

13:05

to that episode . I did

13:07

you Fantastic , yeah . Yeah , it was really

13:09

really good . It was great to see a year later how

13:11

he'd got on . But he , off

13:14

air . He said to me all right , if I gave you a million followers

13:16

, what would you do with them ? Yeah , and I was like

13:18

you know what ? I don't actually

13:20

know what I'd do with them , like if I had

13:22

a million . Obviously I'm at that point where I'd be like

13:24

, well , I'm going to have to continue turning out this content that

13:27

they all like . But I was thinking to myself actually , is that

13:29

the end goal to have that ? Because

13:31

I think I'd rather have an audience that was actually

13:34

engaging with what I was doing versus this

13:36

huge audience . But I don't know , but it

13:38

really put me on the spot and I was kind of like , actually it

13:40

made me think what , what am I trying to get out of social

13:42

media ?

13:43

It's , it's , it's a fair point . You'd rather have

13:45

people engage with your , your

13:47

podcast and , you know , be

13:50

interested in what you're saying and you

13:52

know , and be a part of that . Then , you

13:55

know , maybe , like it's , it's , it

13:58

just comes down to like we're all just trying to

14:00

create communities in in

14:02

different ways , right ? So you

14:04

know , do you want a community

14:06

of people that like what you're doing and want

14:09

to talk about , you know , music and production

14:11

with you ? Or do you want some people that

14:13

are going to talk about the next crazy

14:15

TikTok trend , you know

14:17

, or that's not the kind

14:19

of content you want to make , you know ? So , yeah

14:22

, that's . That's why it's good to ask that question

14:24

, because maybe , you know , if you are somebody that wants

14:26

that , if you just , you know , want to use

14:28

being an artist as a jumping off point to

14:31

get a million followers on

14:33

TikTok , that's fine too , you know , just

14:35

know what you're doing , going

14:37

into it , that's it

14:39

.

14:39

Yeah , yeah , I a question . A question

14:42

springs to mind . Actually it's kind of plain devil's advocate and it's

14:44

not on my list . But if you were to talk

14:46

because you mentioned there that you're an artist

14:48

and they , for example , were told by their record label

14:50

that you need to jump on

14:52

social media and start doing some trending stuff , what

14:54

if you had an artist that was sort of saying , actually

14:57

I don't want to be on social media ? And I

14:59

mean , if they were to say that and they

15:01

still want to have that push and that promotional aspect

15:03

of them Is there still . I

15:05

suppose it is still possible . But I mean , what would

15:07

your sort of pushback on that be if they said , actually I don't want to

15:09

be on social media ?

15:10

Well , I mean , I have had artists try

15:12

to say that to me and what I say

15:15

is you are an artist in

15:17

the year 2024

15:19

. This is part of the job . Now , I'm

15:22

sorry , you know , that's just

15:24

unfortunately how it is Nobody's

15:27

holding a gun to your head and making you do

15:29

this . But if you want to do

15:31

this and be an artist

15:33

and you know , make people

15:35

hear , like get people to hear your music

15:37

and get fans and this

15:40

is one of the steps that you have

15:42

to do and you know

15:44

we're lucky to have it

15:46

. I know a lot of people hate social media and I was just

15:48

talking about oh my God , I hope it like backs off

15:50

a bit , but think about it . It's

15:52

a completely free

15:54

and direct way to access fans

15:57

. Like , imagine

15:59

20 years ago , like

16:02

how that would have blown

16:04

people's minds to be able to have

16:06

that access to your

16:08

fan base or potential fans

16:10

. You can reach out directly , you

16:13

can create the narrative , you can show people

16:15

only what you want to show them and

16:18

you know I mean major

16:20

labels back in the day were spending millions

16:22

of dollars for that kind of access

16:25

. So you know , just think about

16:27

, like , how lucky you are to have that

16:29

. Yes , it sucks . I'm

16:31

sorry , but that's it . Like . This

16:33

is just . This is the game now . This is it

16:35

. You're choosing to be an artist . You

16:37

want to be in the music industry . This is

16:39

it . That's what you have to do . If

16:41

you don't do it , you're going to suffer the

16:43

consequences . The only people that can

16:45

stay off social media are Radiohead

16:49

. Do you know what I mean ? Like huge artists

16:51

but that's because they already have a

16:53

fan base . So you

16:56

know , and even they still have people posting

16:58

for them . It's just that you know Tom

17:00

York's not sitting there doing the posting

17:02

.

17:03

So well , to my knowledge maybe he is , but

17:07

yeah , exactly yeah

17:09

, when you got those legacy acts , like you say , they can get away

17:11

with it . And I was having this conversation with my girlfriend

17:14

the other day because I was I'm looking at redesigning

17:16

the podcast artwork , and she was pointing

17:18

out these , these different podcasts and

17:20

she pointed out like Joe Rogan , for example , and I was like , yeah

17:22

, but everybody knows who he is , he doesn't have to do

17:24

anything If I put my face on there

17:27

. No , no one's gonna be like I recognize somebody

17:29

might . But yeah , I was

17:31

just like , yeah , it's great when you've already got that

17:33

leverage . But yeah , as you mentioned , social media

17:35

is you do need to do it , don't you

17:37

? It's , it's , it's part of the course now . And it comes under

17:39

that idea what you mentioned earlier about having

17:41

you're juggling all these different things

17:44

. I often see these infographics on social

17:46

media where it's like you're an artist and

17:48

then there's like the what is it ? The pie

17:50

chart , and then you've got all these other segments

17:52

of everything you're having to do and then the artist bit

17:54

for the audience listening . I'm doing a very

17:56

small area of a pie chart with my hands

17:59

, which unfortunately , is the way

18:01

it is , but , as you mentioned earlier , you got to make that decision

18:03

? I guess , like are you a content creator or

18:06

are you an artist ? So , with regards

18:08

to pushing back on social media , how do you think that's

18:10

gonna look ? Do you mean is in the sense that people are going

18:12

to be using it less , or

18:15

is the content going to change ?

18:17

I mean , I think that a

18:20

little bit of both maybe . I think that

18:22

a lot of artists , particularly

18:25

artists that kind of , went all in with content

18:27

creation . I

18:30

think it's just it comes down to like who has

18:32

the time and how much like work , life

18:34

balance , right . So , yeah

18:37

, I think it's just more of maybe

18:39

I'll just I have an album

18:41

coming out or a single coming out , so I'm going to be

18:43

a lot more active during those times and

18:45

, you know , maybe when I'm

18:47

not , I'm still going to be posting , but

18:49

perhaps not as much , because that

18:52

is something you know that is important

18:54

to like . You have to like keep the

18:56

wheels greased . As I say , you have to keep

18:58

that algorithm liking you , because if you completely

19:00

stop , you know , take a couple months

19:02

off and you come back , nobody's going

19:05

to see your content because that algorithms

19:07

like hey , you were gone , sorry

19:09

man . You have to like , unfortunately

19:11

, like , most of the platforms

19:14

reward , you know

19:16

, consistent posting , like

19:18

consistent engagement as well

19:21

, like that's important too . It's not just the posting

19:23

. You have to engage

19:25

with other people's posts

19:29

and you know , likes commenting

19:31

. If somebody comments on yours , make

19:33

sure you comment back , like , and

19:36

you know that sounds like a lot to

19:38

some people , but you know you can just

19:40

like square out some time in the morning

19:42

to do that . Do you know what I mean ? You can just

19:45

schedule the stuff . Think about

19:47

, well , maybe I'm going to do two posts on

19:50

Facebook this week , and then , you know , three

19:53

posts on Instagram , and then maybe I'll do a few stories

19:56

, and just like it's good to just

19:58

kind of think about what your week

20:00

is going to look like and then , you know , have

20:02

some room for some spontaneity . It's always nice

20:04

to do that if you're out and about to

20:06

do a nice little story , you know , or I'm

20:09

in the studio and here's another . You

20:11

know those sorts of things . But

20:13

yeah , I think artists get

20:15

stuck on , you know , and I have

20:17

to post . What should I post ? I don't know what to post

20:19

, and it

20:21

just then they just don't post . You

20:24

know , like it just becomes like this , almost

20:26

like they freeze up , like they can't do

20:29

anything . But

20:31

yeah , I think , honestly , my

20:33

theory of the pulling back

20:35

, I think it just comes down to like the overall

20:37

feeling right now that we're all

20:39

feeling of we're all overworked and

20:43

we're I think the pandemic

20:45

kind of did that to us that , like you

20:48

know , I don't , maybe we don't have to like work as hard

20:50

. Maybe I should . I need more downtime , maybe I

20:52

should you know , take more walks in the forest

20:54

. You know , I think it just comes from that sort

20:56

of thing .

20:57

Yeah , I'm all four walks in the forest . I live in quite

20:59

a rural area , so I'm all four to that

21:02

. So it makes perfect sense to me . Yeah

21:04

, exactly , I love it . It's brilliant . I live in a very

21:06

leafy sort of rural area of England

21:08

.

21:08

It's very nice .

21:11

It is . It is . I'm quite blessed I went live . The

21:14

audience probably know because I mentioned it frequently

21:17

, but it's

21:19

interesting . You mentioned there about sort of the

21:21

releasing of

21:23

when you're posting , rather , and like

21:25

when you get into that spot of actually what am I going

21:27

to post today ? And I do . I think

21:30

I towards the end of last year and

21:32

I caught my I found myself in this trap of just

21:34

sort of like posting because I felt

21:36

I needed to post something and then I was thinking

21:38

, actually , is this worth me doing

21:40

? Is it is , am I getting anything out of this

21:42

? And it sort of leads . This is a question . Again

21:44

, I didn't have written down , but I've

21:46

got quality versus quantity here and I'm fairly

21:49

certain I know what the answer is going to be with regards to

21:51

that . But is there anything that's

21:53

going to work against you in terms of

21:55

the algorithm , apart from spamming

21:57

people in DMs ? I imagine that's probably

21:59

not going to do you any favor .

22:00

Well , I think , yeah , I think what you said is important

22:02

, like quality versus quantity . Like you

22:06

know , you don't always have to post and you

22:08

shouldn't ever post for the sake of posting

22:10

. Do you know what I mean ? Like you

22:13

know , yeah , it's good to be active and yeah , it's

22:15

good to , you know , grease up the algorithm

22:18

. But if you have nothing , you have nothing . You

22:20

know , and that's okay

22:22

too , just like , if

22:25

you're out of ideas , just like , okay , maybe

22:27

today's not the day to post , let's

22:29

try again tomorrow and see if we have anything

22:31

. Because , yeah , posting

22:33

for the sake of posting is no bueno

22:36

, we know that . And if you're

22:38

going to try stuff , places

22:41

like Instagram Stories or

22:43

Twitter if anyone's still on Twitter are

22:46

good places , like fast moving , you

22:48

know sort of platforms . Those are good places

22:51

to try things . You

22:53

know it's

22:55

. You know , don't try

22:58

something by posting on

23:00

your grid on Instagram or you

23:02

know TikTok is actually a good place to try

23:04

things too , you

23:06

know , just because

23:08

there's so much content and you can post so

23:10

much there and

23:13

so much of it is not going to take

23:16

off , but sometimes

23:18

it will and you don't know what that thing is

23:20

, you know ? And

23:22

yeah , like to the point where , like , I know

23:24

people that have , you know , had a great idea for a video

23:27

on TikTok and , you know , posted it and it just

23:29

didn't take off and they're like

23:31

, well , maybe it was a time or something , and then

23:33

so they just , you know , delete it and then try again later

23:35

and post again and then maybe it'll

23:37

work . Then , like , there's all of these

23:40

people trying to like game the

23:43

other .

23:43

Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah

23:45

. I was going to ask about that , actually about , like , the

23:48

time of Dave , because I've looked online and I

23:50

did this with YouTube shorts and I saw this article

23:52

that said , like the perfect time to post

23:54

a YouTube video is either 11 o'clock in the

23:56

morning or three o'clock in the afternoon and I was

23:58

thinking , actually , is that true ? Is

24:00

that ? Is that like ? If I do that like , is

24:02

that because then I had this conversation

24:04

I think it might have been with sunglasses , kid again

24:06

, he's like well , at the end of the day , if it's good content

24:09

or no . No , it wasn't him , it was someone . I think

24:11

it might have been Damian Keys . Actually I heard him say

24:13

who does the . I

24:15

can't remember the name of it now I'm going to do a disservice , but

24:18

anyway he said that like , no matter what

24:20

time of day you post it , if it's good content , it's going to

24:22

do well , rather than trying

24:24

to sort of gamify and post it at a specific

24:26

time .

24:27

I'm assuming that's the case , I agree with that

24:30

. The thing is is like , you

24:33

know , we've all had that thing where we thought that we

24:35

posted something amazing and then it just died

24:37

. And you worked really hard on it and

24:40

you know it's horrible , you

24:43

know , and then you post something just

24:45

like on the fly and it takes off

24:47

right , like so we

24:50

don't know the thing that's going to resonate

24:52

with our audience , we

24:54

just don't . It's like music , right , you

24:57

can think you have a hit song and it

25:00

just doesn't take off . And

25:03

maybe there's another song on your record

25:05

that you hadn't even thought about because you've been living

25:07

with these songs for so long and

25:09

your audience is like this

25:12

is the one , this is a song , this is a song I love

25:14

, and that becomes the song . Like we often

25:16

just don't know . I mean , if we all

25:19

knew how to make a hit song , I mean we all

25:21

be millionaires , right . So yeah

25:23

. So you

25:25

just kind of have to put it out

25:27

there and see

25:29

what happens , right , so ?

25:32

yeah , no , I agree with that , and

25:34

it's kind of funny because I remember the , the

25:36

, the . It was a YouTube short actually

25:38

, which was probably my most successful one of last year , and it

25:40

was nothing related to anything that I do

25:42

and it was just me throwing an axe at a board

25:45

and getting a bullseye and

25:47

it was like the most and it was literally like

25:49

six or seven seconds and I was thinking actually

25:51

, well , obviously resonates with a lot of people , whereas I

25:53

put together a podcast episode and do all these tutorials

25:56

stuff and it's going to get like 100 views

25:58

. But hey , hey , I do it because I love it . So

26:00

at the end of the day , I think that's another thing as well

26:02

, isn't it ? You've got to make sure that

26:05

you're actually enjoying the process , otherwise

26:08

then it becomes a little bit too old and with what you're

26:10

doing , this

26:12

brings up another point consistency

26:14

.

26:14

I think consistency is very important

26:17

, especially for us as podcasters

26:19

. That's the thing that kills

26:22

a lot of podcasts , right , people

26:24

? You know there's so many podcasts

26:26

sitting on all of the platforms

26:28

that maybe get up to like five episodes

26:30

and then just die , and

26:33

that's because it's hard to do

26:35

a podcast News Flash , everybody and

26:37

it's time consuming . And

26:40

but , if you like , even honestly

26:42

, the podcast that we

26:44

do for its media , the FM podcast , I

26:48

started out doing a weekly episode and

26:51

now I have background in radio . I

26:53

know how to produce audio

26:55

at an audio . I am somebody that

26:57

was coming into it like not your typical , let's

26:59

start a podcast . You know , I actually had some

27:01

skills . It helps

27:04

them a lot , yeah , and even I was like , oh

27:06

my God , like

27:08

I do not have the capacity

27:10

to do my job and also

27:12

, you know , edit , write and

27:15

produce this podcast every

27:17

week . So I ended up doing we did

27:19

20 episodes of that first season

27:21

and I was like we're doing seasons , I cannot

27:23

do this every week . So now I just yeah

27:26

, we just broke it down , I'll take a couple

27:28

months off , or sometimes longer , and then I'll

27:30

come back with another season and do 10

27:32

episodes and that just kind of works

27:35

better .

27:37

I often say that to people . With regards to the podcast

27:39

, and like when I started it out , I was

27:41

very much of the mindset of like I'll get to start a podcast

27:43

and having a background as you mentioned there like

27:46

I've got a background in audio so I knew how to edit

27:48

and all that sort of stuff , and I mean I can edit a podcast

27:51

now like this one we're doing today . I could probably edit it

27:53

in about 10 , 15 minutes and

27:55

get it up and done . But

27:58

that's 128 episodes

28:00

in now . Being able to do that

28:02

. It's taken its time . But yeah , there's so

28:04

much that goes into it that I didn't realize . And I

28:06

started out doing it four nightly and

28:08

then I moved to weekly and

28:10

now I've sort of got it in a nice rhythm

28:12

. But I'm having to play the game

28:15

of where you sort of batching

28:17

content and making sure I've

28:19

got three weeks in the bank in case something comes

28:21

up and stuff . But yeah , 100%

28:24

and , as you mentioned there , with podcasting

28:26

as well , it is consistency , just with anything

28:28

.

28:28

It is and it pays off . You've got to love it to

28:30

do it , but it does pay off . And the thing with , like

28:32

what you're saying you know you're creating this

28:35

YouTube content and

28:37

you have this podcast . That stuff

28:39

is always there for people to find . So

28:42

, like with my podcast , even

28:44

when I'm not producing

28:47

new episodes , I still

28:49

have listeners because that back

28:52

catalog is there , so there's always

28:54

people finding

28:56

it and discovering it , like music . Music's always there

28:59

. It's always there for you to find and discover

29:01

, right . So , and you never know when someone's

29:03

gonna find it . So , yeah

29:05

, that consistency does pay off in that way

29:07

and it's good

29:10

to think about it , like not

29:12

be like well , I

29:15

didn't get a lot of people listening

29:17

to this last one

29:19

and whatever , and when I

29:21

started I was doing that . Now , like I look

29:23

at it and people

29:26

just go in and listen and we have so

29:28

, like just it's incredible to me that

29:31

somebody will discover it in some

29:33

way and then listen all

29:35

the way through to every episode and

29:39

I don't know . I think

29:41

that's great . I think that that's where

29:43

consistency , that's where you win with consistency

29:45

.

29:46

Yeah , 100% . And like you

29:48

mentioned then just now , with podcasts

29:50

in particular , when you said you get to the five

29:52

episodes , you've got that like podcast graveyard

29:54

that you can see on in

29:56

various places . I mean , I'm not , I'm not , I'm

30:00

not throwing shade on podcasters here , but

30:03

you've got like podcasts where they get to five

30:05

episodes . And then I think there was

30:07

a big statistic a large number

30:09

rather of podcasts that don't

30:11

get past the 10th episode . Purely for that reason

30:13

, if you get hung up on the listeners and I see

30:15

this in groups on social

30:17

media where you'll see a post and it says my

30:20

podcast only , I've done 10 , 20

30:22

episodes and I've only had 100 downloads

30:24

and you say , well , I mean you are right

30:26

at the beginning . Now you need to come back

30:28

in sort of like 100 episodes time

30:30

and then see where you're at . But yeah , and I

30:33

think it's important that you say , not just with podcasting

30:35

but with anything , I think with music as well is not to get

30:37

too disheartened by numbers and

30:40

metrics .

30:41

No , especially in this day and age like

30:43

where we see older

30:45

music being rediscovered

30:47

, like on

30:50

TikTok . You know what I mean . Like

30:52

there's a band here from Vancouver

30:54

, mother Mother , who TikTok

30:56

just loved an old like a 10

30:58

year old song of theirs and it blew

31:00

up and cut to

31:03

like a year after that happening

31:05

. They're on a European tour opening

31:07

up for Imagine Dragons . Like you

31:09

don't know what's

31:12

gonna happen , but you made that

31:14

music and you have it on the platforms and

31:16

you know a group of people found it and

31:19

were like this is amazing , let's do

31:21

some stuff with this on TikTok and

31:25

that can just happen . But it's

31:27

important to be ready for

31:29

that when it happens , because you know there's

31:32

another side of that story where Mother

31:34

Mother could have been not even prepared

31:36

, but they are a band

31:38

that have been , you know , consistently performing

31:41

live and are a killer , like one of

31:43

the best live acts here in

31:45

Canada . So when the call came they

31:48

were ready to go .

31:51

Yeah .

31:52

I can imagine .

31:53

It's really interesting that you mentioned that , because

31:55

this is a conversation I had with someone the other week and

31:58

it was a case of I

32:00

was like well , what's your number ? One bit of advice that

32:02

you would give to yourself way back when

32:04

that classic question , and it was be

32:07

ready for when that call comes . You don't know when

32:09

and it may never , but you need

32:11

to be ready if a label

32:13

turns round because you suddenly blow up and they say

32:15

we need XYZ , or you

32:17

have a song or a snippet that goes

32:19

viral , and then somebody reaches out to you and says actually , have

32:22

you got a folder

32:24

of beats that I can go through because I really like your stuff

32:26

? You need to be ready for that . You don't

32:28

kind of want to be just thinking , oh

32:31

. I think that comes down to where you

32:33

need to take what you're doing seriously , I guess , isn't it

32:35

? If you're gonna do it , you need to be serious about it .

32:37

That's really true , and I mean that

32:41

happens too with artists like I have friends

32:44

that are music supervisors and

32:46

that world works very quickly

32:48

and so if they need a song , they need it right away

32:51

. And if they go to an indie artist and are

32:53

like , can you get me the song

32:55

, blah blah , blah , blah , and that person doesn't have

32:57

the right sorted out , that person doesn't even

32:59

have the metadata on

33:01

the song , they're gonna very quickly

33:04

move on to the next thing

33:06

. If you do not have your shit together

33:08

and if you are not treating this like a

33:10

business , you are very quickly

33:13

gonna lose opportunities . Yeah

33:15

, so be prepared is so

33:18

, so important

33:20

. It's true , and there's

33:22

like a lot of artists right now I mean I know this

33:25

is something that happened during

33:27

the height of the pandemic is that a lot of the major labels

33:30

were signing TikTok artists

33:32

, like artists that were specifically

33:34

had their music was

33:36

blowing up on TikTok , they were

33:39

getting it out there . And

33:41

now we have artists that

33:43

are from social

33:46

media platforms being

33:48

signed to majors , performing at

33:50

huge festivals with absolutely

33:53

zero experience

33:55

in live performance . You

33:58

can't just go on a stage and perform . My friends Now

34:02

, like back in the day we

34:05

had a system where you

34:07

worked hard to get to that point

34:09

. By the time you got to the point that you were signed

34:11

, you had put in the miles

34:14

, you had put in the work and

34:16

you were ready . And

34:18

now it's just like you can blow up so

34:20

quickly that you have these artists that are just

34:23

ill prepared for it

34:25

. And I think that's why

34:27

a lot of people are maybe

34:29

dismayed about the state of music

34:31

too , because they're just like it's not real

34:33

, it's not authentic or

34:35

whatever people like to complain about

34:37

. There's plenty of great new artists

34:40

out there . I obviously don't feel that way , but

34:42

some people may say that .

34:44

It's that classic , isn't it ? You got to cut your teeth on the live

34:46

circuit , being in a band , as I was many

34:48

moons ago , and we were playing to

34:51

the sort of sound engineer sound

34:53

guy in his dill in a venue

34:55

. You got to cut your teeth doing that and that way

34:57

, when you do get to that position whereby you

34:59

can play these , you've got that experience

35:01

and you've also got

35:03

quite thick skin at that point as well . Oh yeah , having

35:06

done those shows . But yeah

35:08

, I think you can get like somebody

35:10

who's got that one song and then they hit the stage

35:12

and then like no one knows , any of their other

35:14

catalog or the rest of

35:16

their catalog doesn't hold up against that one

35:19

song . That's done really well .

35:20

So yeah , I think I can see how

35:22

you can become quite dis Disillusioned

35:25

maybe with the music industry , but I think there's

35:27

there's parts of it that are good as

35:29

well , I guess well , I mean , yeah , it's

35:31

just we're in a we're in a weird state right

35:33

now , right like we have this

35:35

one side of the industry that's still trying

35:37

to do it , like it's a brick-and-mortar system

35:39

like the olden times , and

35:42

then we have this other side , that is the tech

35:44

industry , and that's

35:46

the problem . The problem is is

35:49

, I think we all know that the music

35:51

industry just Waited

35:53

too long to accept the fact that it was

35:55

going to become the

35:59

tech like a more tech base that you

36:01

know , like when Napster happened , they

36:04

just dropped the ball . They tried to make

36:06

things go the same way that they

36:08

were for too long , and

36:10

now we have artists making zero

36:12

money and that's what happened . So , yeah

36:16

, I it's . I

36:18

think that that , honestly , is the For

36:21

me , with my artists and my clients . The

36:23

biggest problem I find Pardon

36:26

me is lack of

36:28

Lack

36:30

of education about the music industry , as well as lack

36:32

of digital literacy , and

36:35

you know that comes into play

36:38

a lot , especially with social media

36:40

, especially with digital

36:43

marketing , like , if you're doing ads Yourself

36:47

, if you don't know how to do

36:49

that , that can be overwhelming . It's

36:51

really hard , but what

36:54

I always say is you know , again , you're

36:56

lucky because you

36:58

have the entire Internet at

37:00

your fingertips and there's

37:02

so many resources to figure it out and

37:04

you know . So what I do , if I don't

37:06

know how to do something , is , you know , google

37:09

it or go to YouTube , or even tiktok

37:11

has lots of music education on

37:14

it as well . So if

37:16

you're like , oh my god , I don't know how to do my

37:18

Instagram ads , how

37:21

do I set up YouTube ads ? Ah , you

37:23

can really quickly figure out how to do it , you

37:26

know yeah , most certainly

37:29

.

37:29

Like you say , everything's at your fingertips , simply

37:31

with YouTube , I mean , you can find pretty much all there , anything

37:34

you want , yeah , yeah , 100% it's all there . Digital

37:37

literacy is really interesting because I was

37:39

once upon a time a teacher and I was . I

37:41

used to teach computer science and music and

37:43

Digital literacy was huge

37:45

and I was a huge , massive advocate of that , specifically

37:48

over here in the UK and obviously it's big

37:50

everywhere . But and I couldn't

37:52

stress enough how important it was for

37:54

people to have digital literacy and

37:56

this was pre-pandemic and then the

37:58

pandemic here , and then I was like my

38:01

case in point right now , like people need

38:03

to know , like and that sort

38:05

of Expedited

38:07

the process of people becoming digit , digitally

38:10

literate , but it's still the case

38:12

. Now I find I don't know , maybe it's , maybe

38:14

it's individuals like to bury their head in the

38:16

sand and thing . Actually , I don't want to know there

38:18

is a lot of that .

38:19

There's a lot of that too , but I mean , I

38:21

have it like every

38:24

day with my clients . I have it , you

38:26

know , I have to know

38:28

it because of the job I have . So

38:30

I am constantly educating myself so

38:32

that I can be good at my job . That's

38:35

, that's what I do and I think

38:37

that artists need to think about it that

38:39

way as well . Again

38:42

, it's 2024 . I'm

38:44

sorry , I apologize for all of this stuff

38:46

that you have to do , but this is the world you live in . Yeah

38:49

, it would have been better if it was the 80s and

38:52

you could sit back , but that's

38:54

not . That's not how it is . And

38:56

Again , there's

38:58

, there's , there's so many resources and

39:02

actually , you know , that's the biggest reason that we

39:05

started the FM podcast . Like I started

39:07

it , you know , mostly for you

39:10

know it's great marketing for

39:12

my business , fritz

39:14

media . So it kind of started for that . It

39:16

was kind of an extension . A good way to market

39:18

the business and then to is education , because

39:22

I just was like I need to have

39:24

a place where I can point artists

39:26

to like you know not to do that here . Great , I

39:29

got a great episode on that and

39:31

you know there's lots

39:33

of great podcasts out there that Will

39:36

teach you as well , like you have one . There's

39:38

the new business , new music business one with Ari Hurst , and it's

39:42

really good to I listen to that

39:44

. I learned a lot on on

39:47

on that one too , and there's like tons

39:49

of others . So

39:52

, yeah you , it's

39:54

just , it is a head and a cent thing , I

39:57

think too , because they're just like , oh my

39:59

god , I don't want to learn how to do this or I don't

40:01

, I don't understand how to do Instagram or like .

40:05

It's just and I'm just like I'm sorry

40:07

, but you have to , so

40:10

if not , maybe go sell insurance , because I , you know

40:12

, I , this is the job I

40:18

think maybe some of it also comes down to , and I , I'm Hold

40:22

my hands up to this I watch videos at 1.5

40:24

speed , 1.75 , and I want everything immediate . I want the

40:26

answer now and I think there's an element maybe

40:29

of with particular job I'm

40:32

not gonna do any shade on generations and stuff

40:34

, but like , if it doesn't happen right away , then I don't want to know sort of

40:36

thing . Like

40:40

I want that immediate return on my investment , whereas

40:43

, like we were saying earlier to consistency , just

40:45

keep doing what you're doing . Eventually , yeah , it

40:50

will pay off .

40:50

That's a hundred percent true , and I I get

40:53

that a lot , particularly when artists hire us to do publicity

40:55

. To

40:58

use your pie chart analogy , again , if

41:01

you're hiring a publicist , that's one piece of the pie in selling

41:03

your music like . It's not

41:06

like you hire a publicist and everything happens . That's

41:11

just one small thing to help with

41:13

the marketing of your music . There's like a million other things that you're doing . There's like

41:15

a million other things that

41:17

have to go along with that and you know , if you had a record

41:19

label , they would do those things for you . But

41:22

if you don't , that means you have to do them

41:24

and you know a lot of that is

41:26

gonna fall by the wayside

41:28

because you're just not gonna be able to do

41:30

it . But you know , most artists

41:32

can't afford to hire a publicist

41:34

, so that's usually like the first thing that they'll

41:37

do . They'll they'll hire a publicist and then they'll

41:39

be like We'll run an incredible

41:41

campaign for them and then they'll be like

41:43

well , nothing

41:45

happened , like what ? Like

41:47

what you know I

41:49

have , like it did . You know ? They just

41:51

I don't know what they thought would happen , but it certainly

41:54

was not gonna be the thing

41:56

like maybe they thought they would get like

41:58

way more Instagram

42:00

followers or , you know , more

42:03

Spotify listens than they actually

42:05

did . And the

42:07

thing with publicity is publicity is like

42:10

Me getting

42:12

people to listen to your music and write about

42:14

it , or me getting people to listen to your music and add

42:16

it to To their playlist , or you

42:19

know , it's like I'm

42:21

helping get the word out there about

42:23

you . It it's

42:25

not a one-to-one thing and it

42:27

and it never has been like if

42:29

If you were on

42:31

Jimmy Kimmel and did a live performance I

42:35

Mean now is Different

42:38

, but even back in the day , that didn't on

42:40

hundred percent necessarily agree that

42:42

you were suddenly gonna sell millions of

42:44

albums . It's like that one thing

42:46

doesn't all of a sudden Do

42:49

something for you and a lot

42:51

of younger artists get stuck in that

42:53

. They're like , but I paying

42:56

you money , like where's my superstar ? Them , how

42:58

come ? And

43:00

, and I'm like , listen , we have

43:02

this incredible campaign . I introduced

43:04

your music to a lot of different people . They

43:06

wrote wonderful things about

43:08

it on their blog or you

43:11

know , newspaper , where . Wherever

43:13

they , they did this and that's

43:15

great , that's fantastic . Uh

43:18

, you know , down the road that

43:20

may get you more fans , but it

43:23

doesn't like . It's like , it's hard . You

43:27

know what I mean . Like it it's

43:29

hard . It's all part of the process , you

43:32

know , and it doesn't come right

43:35

away . I mean it can for some people for

43:37

sure , but you know it's

43:39

a long slog . So again

43:42

we come back to the question why are you doing this ? Because

43:44

if it's to be famous

43:47

, well , you

43:50

know that's . It's

43:53

not gonna work out for you . Yeah

43:56

but if you just want to get your , music out there if

43:58

you are creating like most artists

44:00

I I Work with , they

44:03

just have something to say and

44:05

they want to get it out there , and

44:07

so that's what they're doing . So you start there , you

44:10

create your art , you put it out there and

44:13

then you know you hire

44:15

someone like me . I do my best to make

44:17

sure people listen to it and you know , you

44:20

know , write nice things about it or tell

44:22

other people about it , do

44:24

interviews with you all

44:26

of those lovely sorts of things

44:28

to and all of that helps , right , all of that

44:30

helps to get it out there and to

44:33

get other people to discover you , because

44:36

that's getting harder and harder , right , musical

44:38

discovery . I'll ask you a question how

44:41

do you find new music ?

44:44

I find a new music . At the moment

44:46

, I would say I go on Spotify and

44:49

then I late

44:51

. I've been using the Spotify DJ

44:53

filter filter feature

44:55

, which curates what it thinks

44:57

I want to listen to , based on my previous

44:59

. So he's using artificial intelligence , basically . So

45:02

I've been using that and there's that

45:04

and then its recommendations from friends

45:06

. So it's a mixture of the two

45:08

, but I would say it's heavily in favor of Of

45:11

artificial intelligence on Spotify

45:13

.

45:13

Yeah , I think a lot of people find it that

45:16

way . Yeah , for me it's Honestly

45:20

like TV shows or movies

45:22

like I shazam all the time . I'm always shazamming

45:24

. I'm like , oh my god , what's

45:27

that song ? And it's like

45:29

a song I never heard from like ten years ago , but

45:31

it's so good .

45:33

She jams an interesting one . I don't know if

45:35

it's as prevalent over here , because

45:37

I look at my Apple podcast stats

45:39

and I see every now and again I get shazammed and I

45:41

was like , and I keep questioning myself . I'm

45:43

like , does shamsham still exist ? Obviously it

45:45

does . Maybe I'm just way

45:48

out of touch with shazam , but yeah

45:50

, I suppose I . I used to find

45:52

a lot of music via TV and film , but

45:54

I would say select . I think it's because I spend more

45:56

time now in the studio and when I'm

45:58

doing admin bits and pieces . I've just got Spotify

46:01

on and then I'll do what is it release

46:03

, latest releases or whatever it's called , and

46:05

I have that come through as well and I find a lot that

46:08

way . Um , youtube's quite good as well

46:10

. I find when YouTube creates a mix for

46:12

you based on what you've been listening to previously

46:14

, and I often find that I go down a rabbit

46:16

hole of sort of older music

46:19

on YouTube versus Spotify it's

46:22

modern . I say modern , not modern

46:24

, but new music , yeah , whereas on YouTube it

46:26

was into me old , because

46:28

I like metal , rock and classic rock and

46:30

stuff , and it'll bring up a lot of that , but

46:33

no , it's interesting . You mentioned Shazam . Yeah , shazam .

46:35

Yeah , that's it . And also I listen to a lot of like

46:37

podcasts , like music podcasts

46:39

. You know there's

46:42

a NPR , the American

46:45

Public Radio Station has a new Music Friday podcast

46:47

that comes out every Friday and I listen to

46:49

it religiously every Friday because it's just like

46:51

here's some of the albums

46:53

that are out this week and it just kind of

46:56

keeps me a little current . So I , because

46:58

you know there's so much that sometimes

47:00

I'm just like who's this now ?

47:03

Like yeah

47:05

, I know what you mean . I know what you mean . I do that

47:07

with Radio One over here , just so I know

47:09

. I mean , for the most

47:11

part , what they play on Radio One I'm not

47:14

a massive fan of , but I like to know what

47:16

the current music trends are and

47:18

where the music industry is going in terms of what people are

47:20

listening to . And occasionally I hear something

47:22

I'm like I really like that and then

47:24

I go and research it and a lot

47:26

of the time I'll write maybe write a song

47:28

in that sort of format .

47:30

But I like Radio Six . I think that's

47:32

a good one . I don't know if I've

47:34

listened to have I listened to Radio Six ?

47:35

I've got Radio Six , Radio Four . What

47:38

do they say in Radio Six ?

47:39

Radio Six is like more like alternativey

47:41

sort of .

47:44

Okay .

47:44

I think that's what it is .

47:46

I don't think I've ever listened . I didn't even know that this

47:48

is going to sound really bad . I didn't even know there was a Radio Six

47:50

.

47:50

I thought it went as far as Radio Five

47:52

which was live sport . Yeah , it's , bbc sounds

47:54

. It's . Yeah , oh

47:59

right , bbc sounds . Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah

48:01

.

48:01

Yeah , okay , yeah .

48:03

There's always like , like I discover , like I discover

48:05

, because to me it's like again , we're

48:07

probably getting I know it's more of a global

48:10

industry but it's like obviously

48:12

you're going to get different stuff than you're going

48:14

to hear , different things than we might hear , right

48:16

? So it's kind of always been that way

48:18

. I like to know what's going on in the UK .

48:23

So it's interesting , the music industry over here

48:25

. I'm always intrigued by the

48:27

radio stations . I , admittedly , I'll hold

48:29

my hands in the air and say I don't listen to any American

48:31

radio stations . Maybe I should , but I'm always

48:33

intrigued in terms

48:36

of how they work and I'm maybe going to do a bit of research

48:38

. So , if you can recommend any , or Canadian

48:40

ones , rather any Canadian radio stations

48:42

that are worth listening to to keep my ear

48:44

to the ground of what's going on , yeah , I don't listen

48:46

to a lot of commercial

48:48

radio for one , and

48:52

I'm like a podcast geek , so

48:54

I honestly it's

48:58

music or podcasts when I'm listening

49:01

to anything .

49:02

Well , I listen to radio when I'm in my car . That's

49:05

the one time I'll actually listen to

49:07

like an actual radio station

49:09

and I'll just like surf , all of like

49:11

the top 40 in rock stations

49:13

to see what's happening . And

49:16

you know , sometimes I'll be like what the hell's that

49:18

? I don't even know what that is

49:20

.

49:21

I used to do that when I had a DAB radio in my

49:23

car . But I've got this old car now and then it's

49:26

so shit . The radio is

49:28

basically just AM , an

49:30

FM radio . So I've basically

49:33

got the local radio station or I've got like

49:35

radio one or

49:37

something like that , which I guess in a way kind

49:39

of makes me listen to more . If I didn't have

49:41

that then I'd be listening to something totally different

49:43

. But like I think when I'm out and about walking

49:45

or I'm at the gym it's podcast .

49:46

Yeah , same .

49:47

When I'm in the studio working , it's music

49:49

from Spotify , so that's that's kind of what

49:52

the way I balance it . And then in the car , like

49:54

you , I listen to commercial radio , so maybe that's

49:56

a podcast or thing .

49:57

Yeah , maybe that must be

49:59

it , yeah .

50:00

Yeah , I got another interview with another podcast later

50:02

this week , so I'll ask the question in terms of that's

50:04

a really good one actually , what they listen to . It's quite

50:07

interesting , jen , I realize we're approaching

50:09

50 minutes now and I think it'd be

50:11

a good opportunity maybe if you could just talk

50:13

a bit about what you do for its media and

50:15

then maybe where our audience can find

50:17

you .

50:18

Well , we do

50:20

mostly publicity campaigns

50:23

for artists . What

50:26

that means is , if you have a new single

50:28

or a new album coming

50:30

out and you're looking for someone to help

50:32

you promote it , you

50:35

would contact us . We have lots of great different

50:37

campaigns . Our most popular

50:39

ones are single campaigns . At the moment , just because

50:41

you know , we're living in a single

50:43

based sort of economy

50:45

with the music industry , I think right now there's

50:49

people that are less interested in albums

50:51

. I hope that that does change . But

50:54

, yeah , I would say in

50:56

the last couple of years I've noticed that most of our we

51:00

have more people coming that are more interested in doing

51:02

single release . Specifically

51:04

, if we do album campaigns

51:06

, you know , like we do either three month

51:09

or six month , we can do a longer

51:11

one , but if we do like a three month , you can

51:14

release two singles , you know , leading up

51:16

to the album release

51:18

and we help you promote the singles as well

51:20

as the album . And

51:22

you know , depending on your campaign

51:25

, we're probably mostly going

51:27

to be pitching to online

51:29

outlets , music

51:32

blogs , as well as Spotify

51:35

user generated playlists not

51:37

the editorial , but the

51:39

Spotify user generated playlists , because every little

51:41

bit helps . I believe we

51:44

are a Canadian publicity music

51:46

publicity company , but we do

51:48

have a global reach , and I think

51:50

that you'll find that most publicity

51:52

companies do this now , because there's only so many

51:55

places I can pitch , you

51:58

know . But I can also pitch

52:00

places in the UK , I can also pitch places

52:02

in the US where I think that they might

52:04

be interested in

52:06

an artist's music . So

52:09

, yeah , that's

52:11

basically it . If you're looking to get more

52:13

people to listen to your music , that's

52:16

what we do . We're just , we

52:19

want people to know about you and

52:21

we want them to write nice things about

52:23

you , and then what happens is you can share those nice

52:25

things on your social media

52:28

and say , oh my God

52:30

, look at what this blog said about me . They

52:32

said I'm amazing because that's all part of

52:34

it , and you know

52:36

, when you have an active campaign going , that's

52:39

continuous content coming your way

52:41

that you can share on your socials

52:43

as well . The artist gets shy about that too

52:46

. It's so weird . They're just like I don't want to

52:48

share another thing and it's like well

52:50

, you know , you don't have to share

52:53

everything , but let people know stuff's

52:55

happening .

52:57

Yeah , celebrate your success .

52:59

Yeah , oh yeah , I was gonna . I'll

53:01

just end it . We're at

53:03

fritzmediaca . If

53:05

you want to find us and

53:08

if you want to listen to our podcast , it's

53:10

thefmpodcastcom .

53:12

Lovely stuff . I'll put links to both of those

53:14

in the episode description so folks do

53:16

go and check out the Brilliant Podcast and

53:18

also , if you are releasing a single and

53:20

you want that help , make sure you go and

53:23

check out fritzmedia . I highly recommend

53:25

Jen . It's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you today

53:27

. It's been great to talk social

53:30

media and sort of music marketing . It's

53:32

the first one of the year , so and I always find it really

53:34

interesting . It's really really interesting to

53:37

see where what I'm seeing is

53:40

the same as what sort of someone who's a professional

53:42

and working day to day in that industry is seeing

53:44

something similar , which is kind of good

53:46

for me because it makes me think actually , maybe I'm onto something

53:49

on the right track yeah , you feel better .

53:50

You're like oh , maybe I do know .

53:52

Yeah exactly , yeah , yeah

53:54

, exactly that , exactly . I really like

53:56

what you said about pulling back from social media , because I

53:58

found myself doing it , and the fact that you've mentioned it now

54:00

makes me think . Actually , I'm not the only one

54:02

?

54:02

Oh , you're not . Let me tell you , you

54:04

are not the only one .

54:06

Yeah , fantastic stuff

54:08

. Well , I will leave you now because I appreciate it . It's

54:10

early in the day where you are , so you can enjoy

54:12

the rest of your day and I'm going to go and

54:14

have some dinner . So it's been absolutely

54:17

great chatting with you and I will catch up with you

54:19

soon .