0:00

Well, let's be honest, it was the

0:02

debate from hell and it started a

0:04

five-alarm fire inside the Democratic Party. But

0:07

for now, Joe Biden is pushing ahead

0:09

and rejecting calls to step aside. I

0:11

have never been more curious about David

0:13

Plouffe's take on things than I am

0:15

right now, and he's coming up first.

0:18

Plus, we're getting our first look at brand

0:20

new poll numbers following the debate, and a

0:22

top pollster for the Biden-Harris campaign is going

0:24

to join me for an exclusive interview here

0:26

in studio. Also today, House

0:28

Speaker Emeritus Nancy Pelosi is standing by

0:30

the president and firing back at Donald

0:32

Trump. Nancy Pelosi will also be here

0:34

in just a few minutes. And

0:36

later, Trump's Supreme Court prepares to rule

0:38

on Trump's claim of presidential immunity. Better

0:41

late than never, I guess. All

0:43

for some thoughts about why the real damage has

0:46

already been done. OK,

0:57

let's start with the obvious. Joe

0:59

Biden had a very bad night on Thursday.

1:01

There is no one, not Democratic lawmakers, not

1:03

Biden campaign officials, not Joe Biden himself, who

1:05

would tell you that he had a good

1:08

night or they shouldn't tell you that. And

1:10

remember, the biggest concern about the president

1:13

from the moment this reelection campaign started

1:15

was about his age and his ability

1:17

to campaign effectively. The campaign

1:19

wanted to have a debate early, to shake up

1:21

the race and silence those concerns. Instead,

1:24

the president made them much louder. And

1:27

his performance, or lack thereof at

1:29

many moments, also completely overshadowed what

1:31

was a complete torrent of lies

1:33

from Donald Trump and some crazy

1:35

language. So no, not

1:38

a good night for the Biden campaign. And

1:40

what came next was a full-scale freakout

1:43

inside several factions of the Democratic Party.

1:46

My old boss, David Plouffe, who I'm going to

1:48

talk to in just a minute and who was

1:50

one of the smartest political minds in the country,

1:52

called it a Def Con 1 moment that night.

1:54

And he was right. It was. I mean, within

1:56

the first 10 minutes of that debate, the question was

1:58

being asked here and Capitol Hill

2:01

offices and group chats all over my

2:03

phone and editorial meetings across the country,

2:05

whether Joe Biden should carry on as

2:07

the Democratic nominee. And

2:09

our job is not to ignore those

2:11

questions because they are real,

2:13

they are valid, and they aren't going

2:15

away. Today, the president is at

2:17

Camp David with his family for a photo shoot.

2:20

The trip was pre-planned and announced a week ago

2:22

and honestly did not raise any alarm bells to

2:24

me. But its existence

2:26

has fueled a lot of

2:28

speculation about what they might discuss, given how close

2:30

his family and how important his family is to

2:33

him. And the speculation is not gonna stop anytime

2:35

soon. But right now, it's also

2:37

important to remember, there is no real indication that

2:39

Joe Biden plans to step aside. And

2:42

he and the campaign seem to be quite

2:44

invested in the fight to keep going. In

2:46

his first rally following the debate, we

2:48

saw a completely different, totally different Joe

2:50

Biden from the one we saw on

2:52

the debate stage the night before. I

2:55

know I'm not a young man. State

2:58

the obvious. Well, I know.

3:00

I don't walk as easy as I used to. I

3:08

don't

3:11

speak as smoothly as I used to. I

3:15

don't debate as well as I used to. But

3:18

I know what I do know. I

3:21

know how to tell the truth. I

3:24

know. I

3:30

know right from wrong. I

3:36

know how to do this job. I

3:39

know how to get things done. I

3:42

know like the millions of Americans know, when

3:45

you get knocked down, you get back up.

3:50

Look, one speech, one rally is not gonna

3:52

change the dynamics of the race. It's not going to

3:54

erase the debate performance from anyone's

3:56

memory from the night before. And it's

3:58

not going to make those questions about it. about Biden

4:00

stepping aside go away. But

4:03

that one speech and the power of that

4:05

speech, especially the end, does

4:07

give you a window into his thinking.

4:10

He's a competitive guy. I mean, he knows he

4:12

bombed the debate, clearly. He still believes he

4:14

can do the job. He still believes the threat

4:16

that Donald Trump poses to the country is

4:18

existential, which it is, and he

4:20

still believes he can beat him. So

4:22

that's what Joe Biden thinks. And the

4:25

campaign and his closest supporters have been

4:27

circling the wagons around him over the

4:29

last several days. I'm

4:31

not going to sit here and tell you what to think. But

4:33

those of you out there who have hopes of

4:35

Joe Biden stepping aside so that there can be

4:37

a brokered convention should know that isn't

4:40

exactly an easy road either. You should know all

4:42

the factors there. First of all,

4:44

it would have a seismic impact on

4:46

the Democratic Party if the president stayed

4:48

neutral and didn't endorse his own vice

4:50

president. It would mean also a

4:53

couple thousand party insiders would be empowered

4:55

to make a choice on the nominee,

4:57

not the millions of Democratic primary voters

5:00

who already cast their ballots. And

5:02

it could mean positioning a talented,

5:04

and there are many Democrats, the

5:07

Democrats are very talented out there,

5:09

but largely untested candidate with potentially

5:11

low name identification into the national

5:13

spotlight as the one person responsible

5:15

for defeating Trump just over two

5:18

months from an election. You

5:20

may still prefer that option, but you should

5:22

know the candidate who was spit out of

5:24

that process may not be your choice either.

5:28

And it would all be very messy and potentially

5:30

very divisive. Now, right now

5:32

it still feels very unlikely because right

5:34

now, Joe Biden is standing by the

5:36

president, his most important person in his

5:38

life. Democratic leadership is standing by

5:40

him. Barack Obama is standing by him.

5:43

And we can discuss and debate all day long whether

5:45

that is the right thing. There are

5:47

reasonable and thoughtful arguments on both sides of

5:49

that question. And we will discuss them over

5:51

the course of this show and over the

5:53

next few weeks. But in the meantime,

5:56

Joe Biden and his campaign are pushing

5:58

ahead. They announced that they... They raised more than $33 million

6:01

between debate day and this morning. That's a

6:03

pretty sizable sum. More than three times

6:05

as many people applied to work on the campaign and the 24 hours

6:08

following the debate than apply on an average day.

6:11

But that's not to say the road ahead won't be

6:13

rocky. They know that. And the most

6:15

important conversations they're going to be having are going

6:17

to be happening behind closed doors. It's

6:20

not at all about what an editorial board

6:22

or a top donor says. The campaign, I

6:24

can tell you, could care less about that.

6:27

But they know that holding together the coalition of

6:29

voters, the voters, is what's important. It's not going

6:32

to be easy. There will

6:34

be ongoing discussions about the possibility of

6:36

an open convention, very distracting, important but

6:38

distracting, and about replacing Biden on the

6:40

ticket. They will have to deal with

6:43

those questions. They will need to

6:45

mobilize prominent supporters everywhere, especially the vice president

6:47

and all those Democratic governors who were potential

6:49

candidates in 2028. They

6:52

will need to announce significant endorsements if they have

6:54

them in their pocket. And they will

6:56

need to ensure that the Joe Biden we just

6:58

watched a clip of from North Carolina on Friday

7:00

is seen and heard across the country on a

7:02

consistent basis. They also can't let voters lose

7:04

sight of the fact that Biden was not the only guy on

7:06

that debate stage. And the guy

7:08

standing next to him spouted dangerous

7:10

lies and crazy conspiracies every chance

7:12

he got. We show you

7:14

some of President Biden's first rally after the debate. Let's

7:17

show you some of Trump's. We

7:20

want a landslide. And

7:22

remember this term too big to rig

7:24

the radical left Democrats rigged the presidential

7:27

election in 200. Think

7:29

of this. He had a news conference

7:31

today because Biden used his Biden

7:34

last night used his name in vain. All

7:36

they know is electric. They want electric army tanks.

7:39

They want electric planes. What

7:42

happens if the sun isn't shining while you're up

7:44

in the air? Right

7:47

now, you can't bet on

7:49

some white knight to stand between that

7:51

guy and the White House or some

7:53

easy, simple uniting process. Right

7:55

now, there's just Joe Biden and all

7:57

of you, the American people out there. That's

8:00

who there is. Joining me now is

8:02

my old boss, David Plouffe. He was the campaign

8:04

manager for Barack Obama in 2008 and

8:07

a senior advisor in the Obama White House. So

8:09

Plouffe, I've been talking to lots of people as

8:11

I'm sure you have been. I just

8:13

gave my rundown of my take on things. What did I

8:15

miss? What did I get wrong there? Don't

8:17

hold back. No,

8:20

it was a great rundown, Jen. I think, here's

8:23

the question. I think all signs point to Joe

8:25

Biden staying in this race and being a nominee.

8:28

And that's his right. And

8:31

really, obviously he's got family members and advisors, but

8:33

he's the only voice that matters. And

8:35

so if he does that, this is a

8:38

race that we were slightly behind heading into the

8:40

debate. We'll see where the race stands

8:42

as we process it in the days to come as we

8:44

get more data, but CBS News just had a poll today.

8:48

72% of Americans don't think he has the

8:50

mental capability to be president. You're not gonna

8:52

win the White House with those numbers. Now,

8:54

49% of the people don't think Trump

8:56

either, right? So if Biden

8:58

is to stay in this race, and I think he

9:00

is, and I have all the confidence in the world

9:02

in the campaign, General Malley, Dylan and others will run,

9:05

they could run the perfect campaign. It won't get

9:07

you to a win number of 270 electoral votes

9:09

unless that fitness number were to get better. So

9:12

the question is, what are you going to do?

9:15

He's gonna have to be much more aggressive with all

9:17

the risks that comes with that. A lot more interviews,

9:19

even in unfriendly places. I think anyway, do

9:21

the September 10th debate. If Trump does it,

9:23

maybe do more. That's the

9:26

big thing. I've learned it can be humbling

9:28

when you're part of the campaigns. Campaigns don't

9:30

change big things. They help you on the

9:32

margins. And there's two big things right

9:34

now. Well, there's three big things. Donald Trump

9:37

is a super weak candidate. Who can be

9:39

beat? People's view

9:41

of the economy is not what we'd like it

9:43

to be. It's improving a little bit. How do

9:45

you win that debate on the economy? Where Joe

9:47

Biden has some strength in terms of he cares

9:50

about people like me, working people. And

9:52

then this agent fitness question. So I think a

9:54

race that was already gonna be hard to win

9:56

has gotten harder. And we just all need to

9:58

embrace that. And I think. what you said

10:00

was so important. If you believe that Donald

10:03

Trump's election is an existential threat to the

10:05

country, and I think probably slightly more

10:07

than half the country believes that, then this is not

10:09

a race that you try to win, you have to

10:11

win it. And so as Joe Biden is thinking about

10:13

the way forward, in my humble

10:15

view, that has to be like, you can't

10:17

lose, you got to win. And

10:19

you got to be sure you're the right person to do

10:22

that. I think he's got a lot of strengths. I think

10:24

he's been a great president, but we have to understand where

10:26

the race is right now, which is we are behind. And

10:28

we can talk about all the presidents who had bad

10:30

first debates, and a bunch of them did. Reagan,

10:34

Obama, Bush were all ahead in their

10:36

elections. So we had to

10:38

that opportunity last Thursday night. Joe Biden

10:40

did not, he made a problem that's

10:43

close to existential worse. It doesn't mean

10:45

it can't be addressed. But

10:47

it's going to require great strategy,

10:49

great tactics. And there's risk on both sides.

10:52

As you said, there's a whole bunch of

10:54

downsides about a new process. There's downsides staying

10:56

where we are. Like we should just, as

10:59

you know, having worked in the White House,

11:01

generally every day is deciding between worse options.

11:04

That's kind of where we are. But I

11:06

think this is a race that can be

11:08

won, because Donald Trump showed again in the

11:10

debate and that awful rally afterwards, why

11:13

there's enough Americans out there that don't want to sign

11:15

up for another Donald Trump term. But

11:17

right now, we're not where we need

11:19

to be. So that's where I think where the focus

11:21

needs to be is how do we change a race

11:23

that we're now heading towards a loss to a win?

11:27

And it's very incumbent on the president. I mean, the

11:29

buck stops with the candidate, just to kind of double

11:31

down on what you just said. I want to ask

11:33

you, I mean, there's lots of risks and threats. I

11:35

do want to talk about the open

11:37

convention possibility, which again, is not there's no

11:39

indication Joe Biden's dropping out or not going

11:41

to run. But I think it's important for

11:43

people to understand who might support that might

11:46

still support that, even if they learn more

11:48

about it, what that would mean. Explain to

11:50

us kind of what factors should be considered

11:52

for those calling for a brokered convention. Like,

11:54

for example, my view is that if he

11:56

doesn't endorse the vice president of the

11:58

United States, that's seismic. So

14:00

you've got to think he can grow from here.

14:02

And so a race that looks right now to

14:04

be Donald Trump's small, but you know, it reminds

14:06

me of 12, right? You know,

14:08

there were national polls that showed us tied

14:10

with Romney, some even down, but we knew

14:12

reliably. We had a small

14:14

advantage in the battleground states. That's

14:16

where the race is right now. Can Joe

14:19

Biden overcome that? I think he can, but

14:21

we should be honest about where we are,

14:23

which is without

14:25

more voters saying, actually, I think he's

14:28

up for this. We won't win. That's

14:30

my humble opinion. Yeah, I think

14:32

it's so important to be honest about where we

14:34

are and honest about the fact that there are

14:36

real discussions, important discussions that people are having out

14:39

there. And it's important for people to inform themselves

14:41

and no one understand all the past. David Plath,

14:43

thank you as always for helping me break all

14:45

of that down and help people, give people more

14:47

to digest. I really appreciate it. Coming

14:50

up, House Speaker Emeritus Nancy Pelosi joins me

14:52

live. I'm going to get her reaction to

14:54

the debate and all of the calls for

14:56

Joe Biden to step aside. Some thoughts about

14:58

the Supreme Court ahead of tomorrow's ruling on

15:00

Donald Trump's claim of presidential immunity. But first,

15:02

one of the big questions on everybody's minds.

15:05

What are the numbers saying after Thursday night's

15:07

debate? It's all about voters. That's what this

15:09

is all about. Biden campaign pollster Molly Murphy

15:11

is standing by for an exclusive interview and

15:14

she joins me next. This

15:23

weekend, the Biden campaign started hitting back at

15:25

its critics with a new memo on the

15:27

state of the race. The message in a

15:29

nutshell, don't panic, stop freaking out and take

15:32

a deep breath. Citing public polling

15:34

and analysis as well as internal focus

15:36

groups, it says that, quote, on every

15:38

metric that matters, data shows the debate

15:40

did nothing to change the American people's

15:42

perception. So right now, the overall

15:45

message from the campaign is, let's not be

15:47

so quick to judge how voters are digesting

15:49

this. President Biden himself echoed that sentiment at

15:52

a fundraising event this weekend. He said, quote,

15:54

I understand the concern about the debate, but

15:56

noted that voters had a different reaction than

15:58

the pundits. And

18:00

what we also see is on the most

18:03

consequential question that we ask voters, who are

18:05

you gonna vote for between Joe Biden and

18:07

Donald Trump? That is where you

18:09

continue to see voters saying they are supporting

18:11

the president. Let me ask you,

18:13

I mean, I know from doing lots of campaigns, there's daily

18:15

tracking numbers. There's all sorts of numbers floating around every campaign.

18:17

You put some of this in the memo, but

18:20

what are those daily tracking poll numbers overnight

18:22

saying over the last two days? Sure.

18:24

So I think that's a really important

18:27

question. What the media has focused

18:29

on and what a lot of the recent poll

18:31

numbers that have gotten picked up, focus on is, how

18:34

would you rate the president's debate performance? And the president

18:36

is the first to say, it was not his best

18:38

night. We see that in our polls. That is something

18:40

that we have seen. But what doesn't get

18:42

covered as much is, voters are capable

18:44

of taking in a lot when they watch that

18:47

debate. And what they also took out of the

18:49

debate is a majority of people who watched the

18:51

debate felt like the president talked about issues that

18:53

they cared about. They felt like

18:55

the president came across as someone who

18:57

cares about middle and working class Americans.

18:59

And when compared to Trump, he came

19:02

across as more presidential, more likable, more

19:04

truthful. All are really important contrasts that

19:06

we have been setting up throughout this

19:08

campaign. But the other part that is

19:10

important here is, Donald Trump did

19:12

not have a good debate night either.

19:14

Voters didn't like what they saw from him. You

19:18

also did dials. And dials are kind of when

19:20

you measure, and this is so interesting, I'm sure

19:22

every voter would love to be in a room

19:24

when dials are happening. What works

19:26

and what doesn't work. And sometimes there

19:28

are surprising moments. Absolutely. So what worked

19:30

for Biden, I mean, we know

19:33

a lot of what didn't work, which was kind of

19:35

his energy during the debate, his overall performance and his

19:37

inability to push back. Were there

19:39

moments that worked and what stuck out to

19:41

voters in terms of moments that were concerning

19:43

about what Trump said? Absolutely. So to explain

19:45

to your viewers a little bit about this,

19:47

we have swing voters, they were in the Midwest. They

19:50

sit in a room, they watch the debate. Each person

19:52

is given a dial, a literal dial. You can turn

19:54

it up as high as 100 if you love what

19:56

you are hearing. Turn it down as low as zero

19:58

if you hate what you hear. you are hearing.

20:00

And the biggest takeaway is every time

20:03

Donald Trump opened his mouth, those dials

20:05

dropped. They just absolutely plummeted. Voters did

20:07

not like- Who are these voters, just

20:09

so people understand? These are swing voters.

20:11

Swing voters, yes. Who are saying

20:13

they are either undecided or they may change

20:15

their mind in the election. They have not

20:17

locked in their vote choice. And so they're

20:19

watching this because they are trying to decide

20:21

this is a choice between two candidates. We

20:23

are watching them watch their choice. And when

20:25

they saw Donald Trump and when they heard

20:27

from Donald Trump, those dials dropped. They dropped

20:29

in particular when he talked about January

20:31

6th. They dropped when he talked about

20:34

Roe, which doesn't get as much post-game

20:36

follow-up, but he doubled down on being

20:38

proud of overturning Roe in that debate.

20:40

And the voters took notice of that.

20:42

And when he three times refused to

20:44

say he would accept the results of

20:47

the election unless he liked the results,

20:49

those were his absolute bottom-out moments. And

20:51

the president did land really good punches

20:54

on him. Some of the most standalone

20:56

statements that the viewers watching,

20:58

the people in our dials responded to

21:00

is, the only felon is sitting across from

21:02

me in this room. That was one of

21:04

the most standout lines of the discussion. The

21:07

morals of the alley cat people really picked

21:09

up on and jumped out. And anytime the

21:11

president was reminding voters of how untruthful and

21:14

how unable they will be to trust Donald

21:16

Trump served as that consistent reminder of the

21:18

contrast we're making in this race. No one

21:20

likes alley cats. So the

21:22

campaign put out a lot of memos. I totally

21:24

get this. I've written these memos before in my life.

21:27

I get why there's a push out publicly. One of

21:30

the things that was in one of the

21:32

campaign memos, it preemptively blames an overblown media

21:35

narrative for any negative shifts in the polls.

21:37

Now, I understand you're setting expectations that there

21:39

could be shifts in the polls. What I

21:41

didn't totally get was the reference to an

21:44

overblown media narrative because it seemed to be

21:46

kind of punching at the media. I don't

21:48

know what the value of that was. Sure.

21:50

I think the point in saying something like

21:53

that is we know that in modern campaigns,

21:55

singular moments do not spell the outcome of

21:57

any race, whether it's a debate, whether it

21:59

is. a scandal, whether

22:02

it is an individual hot mic moment,

22:04

any of those things, we love to

22:06

say and cover these like they are

22:08

going to fundamentally change the trajectory of

22:10

the race. They will potentially

22:12

bump the polls up or down in one direction

22:14

or another, and that may last a week or

22:16

two. We've seen that in past moments in this

22:18

campaign, and we will see it again. And so

22:20

I think the sentiment there was really just saying,

22:22

yes, we are going to see ups and we

22:25

are going to see downs, but the fundamental lesson

22:27

that we are taking out of this debate and

22:29

every other moment is this is a closely

22:31

divided country. This is going to be a nail

22:33

biter of an election. Every vote matters,

22:35

and we are going to go out there every day

22:37

showing voters that we have their best

22:39

interest at heart and that this president is going to fight for

22:41

them every day. Molly Murphy, thank you.

22:44

Everybody wants to see dials now, so thank

22:46

you for dialing that and for being here

22:48

with me this afternoon. I really appreciate it.

22:50

Coming up, the Supreme Court finally prepares to

22:53

rule on Donald Trump's claim of presidential immunity.

22:55

As the former president continues, he's full embrace

22:57

of January 6th, he did in the debate

22:59

too. And in just a

23:01

few minutes, House Speaker Emeritus Nancy Pelosi on President

23:04

Biden's path forward and her reaction to the way

23:06

Donald Trump attacked her in the first debate. We're

23:08

back after a quick break. Tomorrow

23:18

morning, right around 10 a.m., the

23:20

Supreme Court will finally, and I mean

23:22

finally, it's been months, release its ruling

23:25

on Donald Trump's presidential immunity claim and

23:27

whether he is shielded from prosecution for trying

23:29

to overturn the 2020 election. It

23:33

will be 123 days since the court decided

23:35

to take up the case and

23:37

almost six months since special counsel

23:39

Jack Smith requested that the court

23:41

fast track it. To ensure, of

23:43

course, that the American people got a trial and a

23:45

verdict on Trump's actions before they cast their votes in

23:47

2024. Very reasonable. Thanks

23:50

to the court's complete foot dragging, we

23:52

will not have that verdict before November.

23:55

And this delay didn't just indefinitely pause

23:57

Trump facing any sort of accountability. also

24:00

allowed more time for Donald Trump and his

24:02

allies to spread their lies about what happened

24:04

that day. Because as we move closer

24:06

to November 5th of 2024 and further away from January 6th

24:11

of 2021, we have seen Trump and

24:13

the Republican Party repeatedly try to dilute

24:15

and rewrite we all saw for ourselves

24:18

that day. Trump, of course, has

24:20

fully embraced the January 6th attack and its

24:22

participants, to the point where it has now

24:24

become a centerpiece of his campaign. As

24:27

the New York Times writes, despite the nearly 1,000 guilty

24:30

pleas and convictions that have been secured

24:32

in criminal cases stemming from January 6th,

24:34

Trump has repeatedly described the rioters who

24:37

broke into the Capitol as hostages and

24:39

has started to open his campaign events

24:41

with a recording of riot defendants singing

24:44

the national anthem from their jail cells.

24:47

You can't make it up sometimes. Trump has,

24:49

of course, also floated pardons for every

24:51

January 6th rioter. And as

24:53

we saw on Thursday night, he continues to

24:56

blame everyone but himself for the attack he

24:58

incited. During the debate, he

25:00

absurdly claimed Nancy Pelosi was in some

25:02

way responsible. You see, Trump and

25:04

his allies will take whatever chance they can

25:06

to push their own narrative, no matter how

25:08

insane it is. And that's an insane one.

25:11

And on Friday, they got more fodder for their

25:13

spin when the Supreme Court released a

25:16

ruling that narrowed the obstruction charges that

25:18

many January 6th defendants face. The

25:20

case now goes back down to lower courts

25:22

for further proceedings on whether the Justice Department

25:25

could still prosecute those defendants under the new

25:27

interpretation of the law. So

25:30

it all remains to be seen what the full impact of

25:32

the ruling will be. But that, of course,

25:34

did not stop Donald Trump from thanking

25:36

the court that he stacked and by

25:38

claiming that the, quote, January 6th hostages

25:40

should be released immediately. The

25:43

Supreme Court ruled that Biden's Department

25:45

of Justice has wrongly

25:47

prosecuted hundreds of Americans for

25:50

peacefully protesting on January 6th.

25:54

They have been treated so

25:57

badly. So we're asking

25:59

based on the decision, they should

26:01

immediately be released immediately, the

26:03

J-6 hostages. Free

26:07

the J-6 hostages now. They should free

26:10

them now. They've been waiting for this

26:12

decision for a long time. They've

26:15

been waiting for a long time, and that

26:17

was a great answer.

26:20

I should note that the majority of

26:23

the J-6 defendants aren't just charged with

26:25

obstruction. Many like the man in

26:27

the case the Supreme Court ruled on are also

26:29

charged with assaulting police. As for

26:32

the court's important decision tomorrow, we will

26:34

all see how to—we'll wait and see and see how they

26:36

decide to rule. We don't know yet. They've

26:38

already allowed Donald Trump's delayed tactics to

26:40

work. And whether or not they decide

26:42

to continue to run cover for him,

26:44

it's important to remember that they have already

26:47

played their part. Coming up,

26:49

House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi herself is standing

26:51

by. We have so much to talk about,

26:53

and she joins me after a very quick

26:55

break. Don't go anywhere. Welcome

27:02

back. There are a few people who have

27:04

won more races, raised more money, knows more

27:06

about Democratic politics and voters than my next

27:08

guest. She also knows Joe Biden very well.

27:11

Joining me now is House Speaker Emerita Nancy

27:13

Pelosi. Speaker Pelosi, we're going to talk about

27:15

Joe Biden. You know him so well. He's

27:17

a nominee of the Democratic Party, and there's

27:19

a lot to talk about. But I do

27:22

want to start with something I don't think

27:24

has received enough attention, which is Donald Trump

27:26

and his performance in that debate, because there

27:28

were some alarming things he said during that

27:30

debate. As you were watching, what stuck

27:33

out to you as the moment where

27:35

you wish people it would be blasted

27:37

everywhere and people would watch it and

27:39

understand the threat he poses? Well,

27:44

how are you? Good to see you. Great to

27:46

see you. There's a competition for that moment. A

27:50

stiff competition for that moment, because

27:52

it was a constant manifesto again

27:54

of lies. As you may recall,

27:56

I tore up his speech at the State of the

27:58

Union because it was a— total manifesto of

28:01

lies, and that's what we saw the

28:03

other night, which must be rejected, as

28:05

well as his candidacy. Of course, one

28:07

that stood out was about January 6th.

28:10

This man would not send the National

28:12

Guard. The Republicans know that, because some

28:14

of them were in there when we

28:16

were asking for it, begging for it,

28:18

to the secretary of the Army, the

28:20

secretary of defense, and

28:23

the president, of course, is the ultimate commander-in-chief.

28:25

And he would not send it. So for

28:27

him to go on TV and lie about

28:29

that, the instigator of an insurrection

28:31

against the Congress of the United

28:33

States, against the Constitution of the

28:35

United States, against the capital of

28:38

the United States, and just

28:40

pass it off. So that was

28:42

tough. But in terms of what it

28:44

means at the kitchen table for America's

28:46

working families, for him to talk about

28:48

Roe v. Wade the way he did,

28:50

either he doesn't know what he's talking

28:52

about or he's totally lying or both.

28:55

So it's a terrible

28:57

combination. So when people

28:59

look at that, OK, it was not

29:01

a good night. Let's face that in

29:03

terms of performance for Joe Biden. He's

29:05

so much better than that. But

29:08

what it means to people in their

29:10

lives, he answered questions about policy. How

29:12

can you have a legitimate

29:15

debate when somebody is totally lying,

29:17

you have to completely dispel their

29:20

falsehoods? But in any case, three

29:23

things I would say. A

29:25

woman's right to choose, he lied about

29:27

that. This is very

29:29

important to women. It's a freedom

29:31

issue. It's an economic issue. It's

29:34

a kitchen table issue. It's a

29:36

personal issue. In terms of jobs,

29:38

Joe Biden, 15 million new jobs.

29:40

The other guy, the worst job

29:43

performance since Herbert Hoover. And

29:45

he's saying, oh, he did this and he did

29:48

that. In terms of COVID, it

29:50

was terrible. His denial and

29:52

his delay on

29:55

COVID killed people. What

29:58

he did on January 6th. protection

34:00

and the rest, and what it means to people.

34:02

And you have to have the money to get

34:04

it done. And Joe

34:06

Biden has—he raised $14 million

34:09

after that poor performance

34:12

in the debate. But

34:15

let me just say this. One of the

34:17

things that did happen is people have said

34:19

to me, we're going to give so much

34:22

more money now to you for the House

34:24

Democrats, because watching—I hate

34:27

to use his name. What's his name? I hate

34:29

so much on TV. We know

34:31

we must win the House, as

34:33

at the same time we elect the president

34:35

and we elect a Democratic

34:37

Senate. So

34:39

let's be calm. Let's be prayerful.

34:42

It's a Sunday morning. Let's

34:44

be clear in

34:46

terms of evaluating what the

34:48

possibilities are and the rest.

34:51

But let us recognize that Joe Biden has

34:53

been a great president of the United States

34:55

and what he is putting forth for the

34:58

future. It's not about the past. Nobody

35:00

votes for you because you deserve it. They

35:02

want to know what you're going to do next. And

35:05

what he has next to do

35:07

is to continue his agenda for

35:09

the people, putting people over politics.

35:12

And that means more for

35:15

women in the workplace, family

35:17

and medical leave, child tax

35:19

credit, affordable child tax, affordable

35:21

child care, so that

35:23

many more women can participate. In

35:25

all of the bills

35:28

that he passed, whether it's to

35:30

protect our veterans, imagine that this

35:33

guy was trying to lay claim

35:35

to doing more for veterans. We

35:37

did hundreds of billions of dollars

35:40

to help veterans who

35:42

were victims of burn pits. And

35:44

then denying that he said what he said

35:46

about the veterans. Just think

35:48

of what he said about John McCain,

35:51

a national hero, a

35:53

prisoner of war, just

35:56

such a super patriot. And this

35:59

guy was downgrading

36:01

him because he was captured.

36:04

This is—there's something wrong there, and

36:06

there's something doubly wrong by the

36:08

Republicans who wrapped their arms around

36:10

that, because money rules on the

36:12

Republican side,

36:15

whether it's the fossil fuel industry,

36:17

whether it's the gun industry, whether

36:19

it's the pharmaceutical industry. That's what

36:21

rules them. We're there for the

36:23

people. We're going to keep talking about

36:25

this. We have this even a very quick break, but we're going

36:27

to keep talking about this in the path forward right after that.

36:38

We're back with House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi. So

36:40

I have one more question for you. We've been

36:42

talking on this show just about all the different

36:44

paths, just to help people understand. Congressman

36:46

Jim Clyburn said, quote, recently, I'm a Biden-Harris person,

36:48

so I'm not getting away from that. I'm for

36:51

Biden-Harris. I'm going to be for Biden if Harris

36:53

ain't there. I'm going to be for Harris if

36:55

Biden ain't there. I just want to be very

36:57

clear here. There's no indication Joe Biden is not

37:00

going to be the nominee. But

37:02

are you in the same place as Clyburn, your

37:04

colleague? Well,

37:08

I'm in my own place, and that place

37:10

is I support the Biden-Harris ticket.

37:12

I think they have a

37:15

very successful presidency and

37:17

vice presidency and have

37:19

more to get done. And

37:21

hopefully, if we can get rid of the filibuster

37:24

and pass

37:26

bills with 51 votes instead of 60, we

37:28

can accomplish much more as we

37:30

go forward. Does that

37:32

mean, though, that you'd support Harris

37:35

if Biden didn't—if Biden wasn't on the ticket, he'd support

37:37

Harris? Yeah, but you know what? Biden is going to

37:40

be—I'm saying to you that

37:43

I support the Biden-Harris

37:45

ticket. I'm not abandoning

37:48

Joe Biden right now for

37:50

any speculation. Biden-Harris,

37:52

both of them. I'm

37:55

enthusiastically supporting them, as are

37:57

many of our grassroots. people.

38:00

So while the intelligentsia

38:02

may have some analysis of

38:05

what people are thinking, what we're

38:07

hearing that people are thinking is they

38:09

support the ticket and I support the

38:11

ticket. Voters are most important. Let me ask you

38:14

about the Supreme Court. Let me just go back to... Yeah,

38:18

okay. I want to just

38:20

ask you about the Supreme Court because

38:22

there is a very important ruling that's

38:24

coming down tomorrow morning regarding presidential immunity.

38:26

They've waited for six months. They delayed,

38:28

delayed, delayed, making it so that the

38:30

American public will not see a hearing,

38:32

will not see a verdict on its

38:35

very important case. What is

38:37

your reaction to all of this? What are

38:39

you watching for? What should people understand about

38:41

the delay and what we're looking ahead to

38:43

tomorrow? Well,

38:46

thank you for that question. If

38:49

the court tomorrow says that

38:53

the former president is above the

38:55

law, they will have done a

38:57

grave disservice to justice

38:59

in our country. Let

39:02

us hope that they have some, some,

39:05

show us some allegiance to their

39:08

oath of office to support and

39:10

defend the Constitution of the United

39:12

States. And that just

39:15

because you're president doesn't mean you're

39:17

immune from prosecution if you break

39:19

the law. So that will

39:21

be a big test for the court tomorrow to

39:24

see if they honor their

39:26

oath of office. They've

39:29

given us a lot to doubt

39:31

them lately. And by the delay,

39:33

by the, yeah, by, by delaying

39:35

as they have, they have undermined

39:38

justice in our country, in my view.

39:41

No question. Could not agree with them more. And

39:43

let's just go back to January 6. Let's

39:45

go back to January 6 because this is

39:47

one of the charges against the president. The

39:50

president goes on TV and says,

39:52

I planned my own assassination. No,

39:54

I didn't. He did. They're

39:57

going to hang the, the, um, they're going to hang the,

40:00

um, the, um, the, um, going to hang the vice president

40:02

of the United States, and they're going to put a bullet

40:04

in my F-word head.

40:07

And he will not send the National

40:09

Guard. People were injured over 100—law enforcement,

40:13

people were injured. Some people died

40:15

because of him. And people died

40:17

again because of his delay and

40:20

denial about COVID. This is a

40:22

totally irresponsible person. And

40:24

again, this Supreme Court—Supreme Court

40:27

would say that a person

40:29

is above the law, and

40:32

they've waited months to

40:35

come to a conclusion about it. It's

40:38

going to be a very important day

40:40

for America. Absolutely. No better way to—

40:42

And again, as you know, I'm always

40:44

quoting the National—yeah, I'm always quoting the

40:46

national anthem. Proof through the night

40:48

that our flag is still there. We

40:51

have to prove through this night that

40:53

our flag is still there with liberty

40:55

and justice for all as we celebrate

40:57

the Fourth of July. Perfect

40:59

way to end, House Speaker and Mayor Nancy Pelosi.

41:01

I always enjoy talking to you. Love your passion,

41:04

everything you've ever done. My pleasure. Thank you so

41:06

much. Up next, a personal invitation from me to

41:08

you. We're back after a quick break. I'm

41:13

always so grateful to all of you who spend

41:15

part of your Sundays and Mondays with us. And

41:18

soon, if you want it,

41:20

you're going to get a chance to

41:22

join our conversation in person. On Saturday,

41:24

September 7th, you can join me and

41:26

several of my colleagues in Brooklyn, New

41:28

York for our first MSNBC Live event.

41:30

It's called MSNBC Live Democracy 2024. You've

41:33

got to hear what we think about the

41:36

election, and we'll get the chance to hear

41:38

from you. You can buy tickets for the

41:40

event at msnbc.com/democracy2024. I look forward to

41:43

seeing you there.