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0:58

May have heard me reference the idea of

1:00

maniacs on a mission and how much that

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my favorite maniac. I'm one of my favorite

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With. Well over three hundred episodes. Your heroes

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our podcasts and. Looting edited transcript,

2:01

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2:03

keep learning a drink Losses. Africa

2:07

show the see if the Cel. All.

2:11

Opinions expressed by has has cats

2:13

are slowly their own opinions do

2:15

not reflect the opinions of positive.

2:17

This podcast is for informational purposes

2:19

only and should not be relied

2:21

upon as a basis for investment

2:24

decision clients. A pacifism play maintains

2:26

his innocence and the security's discussed

2:28

in this test. To learn more,

2:30

visit P S U N. Send.

2:38

Adam is the Chairman and Ceo of

2:40

Sand Our Companies and the executive chairman

2:42

and founder of Material Back. He's.

2:45

Got and entire ecosystem of businesses and

2:47

brands that has brought him into the

2:49

game of media materials and beyond. From.

2:51

Creating the beauty products subscription model, to

2:53

getting magazines in the hands of billionaires,

2:56

to transforming the design industry with overnight

2:58

access to samples. When Adam starts a

3:00

business, he writes his own rulebook: We.

3:02

Discuss the founding stories of his most

3:04

interesting companies, his obsession with targeting pain

3:07

points and is philosophies for when to

3:09

go all in and betting on himself.

3:11

Please enjoy this great discussion with Adam

3:13

Sandler. To

3:16

Adam, I'm really excited to introduce

3:18

the audience to one more interesting.

3:21

Business. Ecosystems yours that I've encountered in

3:23

a number of years and I thought of

3:25

fun would introduce why do you do is

3:28

to say at the start that you have

3:30

found a way to the gas. In.

3:32

A business, partially the business, but I think

3:34

most he was. He's not a good business

3:37

which is magazines so maybe you could describe.

3:40

A little bit about what you've built and how

3:42

you on it. Especially given that

3:44

they've done in such a unique way

3:46

in a place that I I, I

3:48

don't think a lot of Heat of

3:50

the Seas hearts were returned Seeking capital

3:52

controlling investors are seeking out he'd I'm

3:54

buying up all these magazines for You've

3:56

done an incredible job and I was

3:58

a lot heartier. Tirico. The men tend to

4:00

establish will get into but it had been inching

4:02

wedge to start the conversation because I have retired

4:04

and as you like it before, Athletic.

4:07

Thanks. I definitely have a little

4:09

units have. A look at Been

4:11

an entrepreneur my entire life in high school.

4:14

As an entrepreneur, the freshman in college big

4:16

I had two thousand employees and I was

4:18

an entrepreneur. It's a my blood. About

4:21

twenty two years ago when I started this

4:23

company. I have a lot

4:25

of media and I started in

4:27

the magazine business prior. I adore

4:29

cluster publishing companies. I had built

4:31

media companies. And. When I started

4:33

this company I sort of got this

4:35

lot of media. I'm going to build

4:37

a foundation in magazines. I loved magazines.

4:39

person's a kid, I would always buy

4:41

magazines, I would spice exhaust the new

4:43

stands and just dream of all kinds

4:45

of great things that are you discovered

4:48

things, wins, Popular Science or the architecture

4:50

magazines or Rob Report. in the early

4:52

days I remember as a kid on

4:54

seventh grade on the bus read Robber

4:56

Port like a crazy person and I

4:58

was fascinated by magazine slams one them

5:00

and I started the company and helped

5:02

build with. The not.com which is this

5:04

incredible media platform very much online and

5:06

item. I'm going to go back and

5:08

I'm going to build a company from

5:10

scratch and I've been sort of magazine

5:13

so I started and the beauty category

5:15

having no particular of finity personally for

5:17

it but I thought this was an

5:19

amazing category and very quickly as I

5:21

started to build the media business. We.

5:24

Started to inject a lot of

5:26

innovation in our second. So.

5:28

It looked like a magazine that

5:30

it was. in. Every magazine that

5:32

I started required I started to

5:34

inject a lot of creativity. Big

5:37

if I saw. This. Convergence I

5:39

sought. Media still very strong Indices:

5:41

Early two thousand Media was very

5:43

strong. Magazines were very very strong.

5:45

But you have is coming threat

5:47

of digital advertising. And

5:49

I never gave him. A

5:52

Say it like that. I never gave them to

5:54

a print company saying. My. God

5:56

Digital is here. Let's. Kill.

5:58

The magazines and so. The web

6:00

sites are nuts. Can have your salvation. I

6:03

always thought that we could build very

6:05

innovative business models into everything we did.

6:08

So we sort of beauty magazine in

6:10

two thousand and five. Very

6:12

successfully profitable on it's first edition. Very

6:14

proud of that. But a year into

6:17

that business as I'm scaling up. I'm.

6:19

Sitting with advertisers Interesting. out of your we

6:21

love what you're doing in the magazine business.

6:23

We love this magazines. Very unique. Ten

6:26

dollars on that it was publish or twenty

6:28

years later. I still own you Beauty. It's

6:30

amazing. Amazing business. The industry loved

6:32

the Maxine they love. The thinking was

6:34

very different from everything about this magazine.

6:36

Visually our sub duration strategy are nice

6:38

and strategy evans was different. But.

6:41

I would sit with manufacturers of product and

6:43

I would say tell me your problems, tell

6:45

me your pain points Mrs. What I do

6:47

this the theme Patrick in every single thing

6:50

that I do in any business like build

6:52

I love to start pinpoint to they always

6:54

say. Don't. Tell me the

6:56

pain points as you think they relate to

6:59

me a magazine publisher Tommy Pain points and

7:01

I'm sitting a meeting and I'll sex. And.

7:04

This beauty company big big company is

7:06

Adam. What We love the magazine. We

7:08

buy ads in it but if people

7:10

just try our product. They're. Gonna

7:12

love it. We have got this incredible product. Our

7:15

struggle as how do we get it under qualified

7:17

hands not hands. How do we get our sample

7:19

and a call for hims and I went back

7:21

with the team. I remember it was yesterday. we

7:23

sat in a room and I said guys that

7:26

got this idea. I love

7:28

recurring revenue. Businesses. My

7:30

best friend is the Ceo of one

7:32

of the largest alarm companies have been

7:34

so life in the alarm industry and

7:36

in college he would talk about the

7:38

recurring revenue dozens of alarms and I

7:41

learned a subject matter expert in the

7:43

alarm industry just as close as my

7:45

best friend building all these incredibly successful

7:47

companies. But I love this idea of

7:49

they're not selling alarms, they're providing a

7:51

recurring revenue service at incredibly high margins

7:53

by monitoring. slice of how we bring

7:55

that into Media: Has reprint revenue come

7:58

into Media and we started to. Really

8:00

Innovate and I invented like probably

8:02

were the first one. spent many

8:05

years to that. This beauty subscription

8:07

program we had is ten dollar

8:09

magazine. Readers. Of the back

8:11

in two thousand to a woman buying a

8:13

beauty magazine at ten dollars when the competitors

8:16

are three dollars we have is very incredible

8:18

is an. Incredible audience.

8:21

And. I said what would they pay if

8:23

they could try the newest cost products

8:25

will be son subscription. Why Strauss four

8:27

times a year? So we went to

8:29

the beauty companies and what I learned

8:31

was. The. Credibility of the magazine.

8:33

You'll hear this is a common thread

8:35

it in my career. the Credibility. That

8:38

the magazine gave me. Allowed.

8:40

Me to go to a giant beauty company and

8:42

say. I know it's going to sound

8:44

crazy, but I want you to take an eighteen

8:46

wheeler full, a full size products and bring it

8:49

to my warehouse. I'm not going to

8:51

pay for the products, but I'm going to guarantee that

8:53

I get it in the hands of women who are

8:55

willing to spend a few hundred dollars a year to

8:57

try. The. Product. Well. That

8:59

was at the time revolutionary. We were

9:01

the first ones we were unaware. We

9:04

are in Time Magazine in the Wall

9:06

Street Journal and we invented this beauty

9:08

subscription. This is which today there's Dell.

9:10

So many of them, the birch boxes

9:12

of a world that hasn't got a

9:14

lot of early credit done and on

9:16

if you got if see now doing

9:18

incredibly well scaling. But that model was

9:20

invented and it was a great example

9:22

and we still to this day have

9:25

that business and it's a very profitable

9:27

business worth. But we were suddenly seen

9:29

not. As a magazine we were suddenly seen

9:31

as an innovator in the beauty space and

9:33

at help the some more ads. So

9:35

that Fema carried out that as I

9:38

did build. The. Media

9:40

platforms. It. Allows us to

9:42

get into other kinds of businesses. Businesses

9:44

are. In many

9:46

cases, sexier. More interesting than

9:48

magazines. but the magazines. Gave

9:51

us the authority, To. Create

9:53

these kinds of do businesses and. I've.

9:56

Always tried to run with

9:58

that thought. When I've been our

10:01

strategy and still has to this day. I'd.

10:03

Love to divide the conversation into first

10:05

how you build that distribution through a

10:07

media property belts are bought and then

10:09

the second part of our conversation get

10:11

deeper into the details, material back and

10:13

other businesses that you built on top

10:15

of that distribution. Just like the example

10:17

that you just gave the first, the

10:19

want to get to that what seems

10:21

like a very hard part which is

10:23

launching a new media property and be

10:25

innovative You said in are you get

10:27

the customers in circulation strategy The advertising

10:29

strategy. So how did you approach? You

10:31

could pick new beauty or. Pick any

10:33

other property that you want to when you're

10:35

approaching an opportunity. How do you know what

10:37

is not for Tuna? The what does that

10:40

mean to be innovative in your circulation strategy

10:42

and your pricing strategy or whatever else? Walk

10:44

us through maybe one or two of these

10:46

specific property examples just on the media site.

10:49

So. Get a little specific to magazines for a

10:51

minute. it'll help your i think understand or at

10:53

least don't give your light into how I thought

10:55

so. Back in two thousand and

10:57

even to this day. If. You think

11:00

about magazine subscriptions? tyranny Generic magazine that

11:02

you might subscriber media used to subscribe

11:04

to U C Twelve issues for twelve

11:06

dollars and by the you get a

11:08

job that. Why? Was it

11:11

so cheap? Why? Was publishers Clearinghouse

11:13

a thing? Why could you redeem

11:15

Frequent flyer miles back in the day

11:17

and incredible company? Michael logo. Snaps.

11:20

Why did you do that? Because publishers

11:22

got hooked on a drug. Called.

11:25

Circulation. So. What does that

11:27

mean? That means that a magazine says

11:29

we have five hundred thousand people that

11:31

love us so much they'll pay to

11:33

get a subscription. We have six hundred

11:35

Eight. A million people are paying Soak

11:37

There was an arms race created. By.

11:40

Getting. Mass. Eyeballs

11:42

to. Subscribe. Welsh.

11:44

A secret of magazine business. Again, it's old news

11:47

if you know the industry was. In

11:49

many cases, publishers use third parties that will

11:51

keep all the money and they give the

11:53

publisher a penny The publisher goes thank you

11:55

for the penny it's paid. We. Got

11:58

paid readers. And when you

12:00

look the demographics of these magazines you go.

12:02

You have a million readers breeding a high

12:04

and home magazine with an average household income

12:06

of eighty thousand dollars. That doesn't make sense

12:09

well there and arms race to get a

12:11

million readers. And what I saw in the

12:13

magazine business was. My. God,

12:15

that's a pretty flawed strategy Would I

12:18

want are the best readers? In

12:20

two thousand and five and was rewarded at

12:22

the best readers. That is

12:24

them painful rate for magazine

12:27

so. We went and we launched.

12:29

It is one of my magazines born. I launched

12:31

New Beauty. I said. I don't want

12:33

all the readers. And. I don't want

12:35

bulk bible. Also if it's a very

12:37

expensive losing proposition in my opinion would

12:39

I want is I want a woman

12:42

that walks into a new stem that

12:44

says i'm going to buy that really

12:46

stick Gorgeous beauty magazine that's ten dollars

12:48

and we literally abject was what's the

12:50

value of a ten dollar magazine by

12:52

are almost the cost of the your

12:54

subscription. And what I did as I

12:57

spent all of our money. Buying. Up

12:59

every slot on every newsstand that I

13:01

could. We would spend more money with

13:03

Barnes and Noble than any other publisher

13:05

because I said this is real estate

13:07

for me. I'll never make money selling

13:09

magazines, in fact a lose money. but

13:11

that's where I'm going to get the

13:13

best readers. What happens? The magazine gets

13:16

the best Reaper smaller. We never were

13:18

the biggest. But

13:20

somebody buys tend or magazine. Will.

13:22

Now engage in a different way. So

13:24

the circulation strategy was very different and

13:26

what I said was if I put

13:28

the quality into the paper, the design

13:30

and content, if I put it into

13:33

making sure it's and the best train

13:35

stations, the best airports everywhere I will

13:37

get the best readers And we did.

13:39

and to this day that strategies never

13:41

change. With almost everything we do, I

13:43

want the best readers. I don't want

13:45

the most readers. I own

13:47

company called Media Jet. It's sixteen

13:50

meg, seventeen years old. About

13:52

seventeen years ago I bought up all the

13:54

rights and private airports to put new stance.

13:57

Originally was just for my magazines. Why?

14:00

Because and you know, rest assured anyone

14:02

flying on a regular basis? Private Lily

14:04

And you know this. Is.

14:06

Just a different demographic. I'm ready

14:08

to charge them from my magazines.

14:11

It's funny. we were buying of really

14:13

big magazine and two thousand and ten

14:15

and was talking to the present of

14:17

the company were buying and from and

14:19

I told them about media jap jokes

14:21

chemically my secret weapon because you can't

14:24

imagine how many magazines and never forgot

14:26

that he said adam, that's stupid son

14:28

would stupid He said that public place

14:30

distribution on your audit agencies just tell

14:32

that to zero you're wasting money and

14:34

I said that is why. I'm

14:37

buying your magazine that said cents on the

14:39

dollar as a because I don't hear about

14:41

the audit. I want. Twenty.

14:43

Five thousand copies of months going, the

14:46

people getting onto on airplane burning. Ten

14:48

thousand an hour to fly. And.

14:51

That was the whole things. We were this country

14:53

and from day one so it looked like a

14:55

magazine. But. All the sudden

14:57

we got a recurring revenue business. here. we

15:00

got a data business. There were circulating are

15:02

magazines getting in the hands of the best

15:04

people so I was just outsider. The.

15:06

Came from the outside of the business. And

15:09

I just said. Were to do nothing

15:11

the way that magazine stoops and a lot

15:13

of times with these big magazines closes because

15:16

that a train the advertisers to buy eyeballs

15:18

by the pound. Not. The quality

15:20

and look at it you'll see now. There.

15:22

Are some magazines that have been

15:25

very successful. Monocles a great example.

15:27

Todd Relays I think a genius

15:29

of the stuff. He makes an

15:31

expensive, beautiful, cerebral magazine. The goes

15:33

to a really good size audience.

15:36

but finally and days highly educated,

15:38

that's the right demographic. But when

15:40

you got a generic magazine going

15:42

to two million eyeballs, It's.

15:45

A same thing is now buying

15:47

programmatic ads online like blinking banners

15:49

that are twenty six cents of

15:51

thousand on a generic site showing

15:53

you generic as they just don't

15:55

work. I relate the old circulation

15:57

models to that. And so the

15:59

magazines or think today. Have. Gotten

16:02

better at that and try to go after those

16:04

better audiences. but that's been. Our Foundation.

16:06

From. Day one of that allowed us to

16:09

come out of nowhere and become. Successful.

16:12

In a very tough, competitive market.

16:14

Can. You tell the origin story of media

16:16

chat and what it was like in the

16:19

early days to go by up that distribution.

16:21

What was the actual process of building what

16:23

you have today which epic anyone listings get

16:25

to agree? Cloud does seem incredibly valuable to

16:27

own the rak in all these places where

16:30

the highest and customers frequenting and picking up

16:32

you're saying naturally guy born and a lot

16:34

of copies go through their who cares how

16:36

it's measured every grid Seibel. Now that I'm

16:39

really curious to hear the story of how

16:41

you built it up and what the stages

16:43

of that were and. What lessons you learned

16:45

doing it. We. Had a biter

16:47

away him. And. It's still very expensive.

16:49

we locked and a really long term contracts

16:51

to be doing it so long but was

16:54

this amazing thing that happened We started at

16:56

No seven and he was thought they were

16:58

resistant they didn't have they wanted than it

17:00

was hand to hand combat to get a

17:02

app, the or even a great. And

17:05

then the crash happens. And.

17:07

Private aviation with a remember the president

17:10

was maligning people find privately. Well.

17:12

All of a sudden. Fps subs

17:14

really hurt. And we

17:16

got a call from an F B O A

17:18

group and I like we want more. New sets

17:21

are like well that's great but weekend for to

17:23

pay you set a crappy economy and your expenses

17:25

are oh. Don't worry about the

17:27

money. Our. Passengers lobby or magazines

17:29

because it was all my eggs. The

17:32

great story was we had a feel saying

17:34

when no one was flying they would have

17:37

their big customers who had Jeff they're going

17:39

a box of those magazines and seven to

17:41

me I'm in a cheap they want the

17:43

free magazines so the appeals started to see

17:46

that it was an amenity. It

17:48

was something that the passengers. Really

17:51

loved and that's helped us expand and

17:53

walk into these very long term exclusive

17:55

agreements. What we've had no place for.

17:58

Many, many, many years. Cause we

18:00

made a big investment into the fiscal

18:03

newsstands, the infrastructure, the distribution, and it

18:05

was never designed to be a

18:07

profit center for us. It was designed

18:09

to be another secret weapons. It was

18:12

designed. For. Me to say. What's.

18:14

The vibe those real okay. Had

18:17

ten dollar magazine buyer at Laguardia.

18:19

That's great but. Someone. About

18:21

spend eighty thousand dollars of jet fuel.

18:24

To. Go round trip Miami away.

18:26

Oh. That's a different reader. And

18:28

by the way, those people are not

18:30

cracking, Laptops are working on spreadsheets each

18:33

way. They're on aeroplanes and they take

18:35

our magazines and allowed us to cement

18:37

are ownership of those spots. and it's

18:39

a win win for everybody. What?

18:42

Is it variables that make a print

18:44

publication more attractive? I would suspect that

18:46

if you had a magazine that was

18:48

just all words, know, images, or certain

18:50

categories you couldn't care less about today

18:52

and you think are much more viable

18:54

as purely digital both. Talk about the

18:56

future of print and digital as a

18:58

spectrum working together. Sometimes what are the

19:00

variables that matter to you along that

19:02

spectrum The make something more or less

19:04

attractive at different plots. First.

19:06

You gotta talk about the content itself.

19:09

You're. Not going to get news from

19:11

magazine anymore. There's. A lot of things of

19:13

the max is don't make any more sense for. I.

19:16

Also think that. If

19:18

you're not going to put unbelievable

19:20

quality, Into not just the content

19:22

and the photography, but the paper and

19:24

the printing. If it doesn't feel luxurious,

19:26

why make it in print? In.

19:28

Ten years from now they will be print.

19:31

It's gonna be a lot less. It's gonna

19:33

be a lot fire and it's gonna be

19:35

beautiful Objects as they were, The coffee table

19:37

books, comedy awards have never been more popular.

19:39

We just acquired an incredible. Architecture

19:41

Coffee Table Book publisher and.

19:44

The. Sales have never been bigger for these

19:46

gorgeous beautiful art pieces. The go on

19:49

your coffee table I think print. Has

19:51

a place for that, but I think

19:53

print is part of an important ecosystem

19:55

that. Oblivion. Not print magazines

19:58

or the future and everything else is there.

20:00

It is an important part of an ecosystem

20:02

to build a company. In certain

20:04

areas where visuals matter. So

20:07

Lox magazine is something I started

20:09

in two thousand and five today.

20:12

It's an unbelievably massive business. There's

20:15

more advertising lox been the top two

20:17

or three artful magazines combine, but we

20:19

focus on quality. You wanna open a

20:21

two page spread and look at a

20:23

gorgeous house and read about Designer? That's

20:25

something that transports you like a book.

20:28

News Investment Information Know you want to

20:31

listen. You wanted to interact with video

20:33

with podcast you wanna be able to

20:35

have a get closer to the and

20:37

user they're so there's a place for

20:39

it. I think my. Skill

20:42

as been. What can you build on thought? When

20:44

I bought Interior Design Magazine which was in l

20:47

on the hundred years old. And

20:49

I bought that magazine coming out of the recession.

20:51

Against the advice of everyone I knew

20:53

in these sitting out of your literally

20:55

the words were you're catching a falling

20:57

knife Yes it's still tough because the

20:59

economy but I believe we can fix

21:01

it And we did and said amazing

21:03

centerpiece of our business to make. This.

21:07

Is when it really hit me

21:09

I acquired interior design again. The

21:11

bible. You. Vote for Fashion

21:14

Interior Design is Bob Forks

21:16

Commercial Interiors. So. Interior design

21:18

has this. Plus thing.

21:21

It's. Thirty five years old. And

21:23

I didn't even understand it well as

21:25

acquiring the whole business or all sitting

21:28

watching these screens was a Waldorf Astoria

21:30

Ballroom during December was beautiful place in

21:32

the world and were watching these documentaries

21:34

of their life's work as a big

21:36

deal with the in a housing for

21:38

and your design But I stood back

21:40

and I said this is. An

21:43

incredible amount of power we have.

21:45

That in many other instances as I

21:48

was building my media company led me

21:50

to think I think very differently. Than

21:53

I think most other media leaders

21:55

were doing at the time. I.

21:57

Remember us as to speak on a panel, the

22:00

really big media conference and I'll do a lot

22:02

of stuff. I'm always under the radar. And

22:05

I said to the gentleman who see of

22:07

time into the time I said look I'm

22:09

pretty contrary him to the digital stops. Not

22:11

as a digital advertising is not right but

22:13

as a magazine or know you're gonna kill

22:15

at Facebook Google yeah but as a producer

22:17

of Time Magazine and on of the you're

22:19

gonna dominate digital. Is. It going on.

22:22

I love it. You'll be the contrary on

22:24

the stage. I remember my message to the

22:26

people in the audience and every employee I

22:28

had and I would always say this was.

22:31

I don't believe that. A. Magazine.

22:34

Producer. Again, There

22:36

are certain out wire splatter believe

22:39

that a magazine producer themselves big

22:41

magazine business is going to be

22:43

able to replace the last dollars

22:45

in print and by the way

22:47

print very high margin. I

22:49

don't believe you're gonna have a place last dollars with.

22:52

Blinking. Banners and sake content and all

22:54

the other fun and games that everyone does.

22:57

I said in this was my thesis

22:59

for the business. And stores to

23:01

this day is. What can you

23:03

build on top? Of. Your

23:05

media business. There's

23:07

no media that gibbs your license

23:10

to do something much, much bigger.

23:12

I only gave this example. It's

23:14

juvenile example, but. If

23:17

as Vogue Magazine, Anna Wintour. Who

23:20

owns fashion and vote on such?

23:22

But. Of Anna Wintour would have sat down

23:25

with a team of engineers and she

23:27

said we're going to figure out how

23:29

to completely reengineer the work flow of

23:31

the fashion industry. And we're

23:33

going to create software to completely transform.

23:35

The fashion industry, I

23:37

think I can go and get it adopted. Snap.

23:40

Could you imagine someone like Anna Wintour walking

23:42

into the Ralph Lauren? Personally, Ralph I think

23:44

I have completely reimagine bashed by Might be

23:46

crazy. But. I want you

23:48

to try it. That's a

23:50

ten. The the conversation with someone like Ralph

23:53

weren't gonna go down to was people in

23:55

got a guy Amazon Listen Software Get ready

23:57

be as we're going to give her every

23:59

bit of tests versus to guide is in

24:01

a dorm room. Start off. The.

24:03

Not getting into the building, let alone gonna

24:05

see a reference. So a great example of

24:08

that everyone can understand of. Could

24:10

a magazine build something that has credibility

24:12

in it's industry well beyond and way

24:14

more valuable than the magazine? And that's

24:17

why I started to and going back

24:19

to the test tube which is the

24:21

beauty sampling business. That.

24:23

Was our first experience a year in.

24:26

There. Will be making more money even in the

24:28

magazine was super high margins. That thesis carried

24:30

me through where I kept saying to my

24:32

internal teams guys. What? Are the tools

24:35

and services we can build for our

24:37

industries? Don't think about what ads weekend.

24:39

So sure we gotta sell ads and

24:41

we still saw a heck of a

24:43

lot of ads across all my media.

24:46

Digital Video Prince it's a foundation for

24:48

us, but. When. I started to

24:50

think. Bigger. I

24:52

started to say I've got this. Incredibly

24:55

fortunate position of being are

24:58

trusted partner and the design

25:00

industry. And. That gave

25:02

me liberty to go talk to. Manufacturers.

25:06

And designers. Back. To the

25:08

same thing, I love to ask what are

25:10

your pain points but I had that license

25:12

am I also had capital I didn't have

25:14

to go and raise money. I was able

25:17

to fund all of the R and D

25:19

and all the proof of concept myself and

25:21

Mature Bank is a great example of that.

25:23

And you're like, really came as a byproduct

25:25

of let me really think, what can I

25:27

do that's. Game changing and I

25:30

couldn't have done. and I really really

25:32

could not have done it. Without.

25:34

Bee Media and the people that worked

25:37

in those media companies and relationships that

25:39

they built with the biggest brands in

25:41

the world that had I Love and.

25:45

For. My media brands that would at least

25:47

listen to the and there were many many

25:49

meetings where I'd say look. This.

25:51

Is years away. But what? Us? And.

25:53

We start to hear designers

25:55

and Ceos of these design

25:57

companies the manufacturer bit tight.

26:00

Paint. And. What I Love

26:02

recently said: i'm out of my God. you built

26:04

that. That's change in St. Patrick.

26:06

How many times you talked about what

26:08

your podcast like? Marketplace Sweeney: Two sides

26:11

to really make that flywheel work? We

26:13

had both sides a pretty amazing level.

26:15

We have that trust so it was

26:17

amazing. I remember going into a meeting.

26:20

With. One of the largest architecture firms in the world.

26:23

And. I was walked in but one of

26:25

the board members and it was a big

26:27

group of people competing and he says you

26:29

but I know Adam is but you know

26:31

what he notes and he talked roller magazines

26:33

and things and I forgot as he said.

26:36

He's a friend of a fan. The

26:38

what Have I done for fifty years written

26:40

about them awarded them inducted into the Hall

26:42

of Fame. Steve, a friend of our son.

26:45

And. He's got this crazy idea she wants

26:47

you to help him refined and he's wrong.

26:49

Decision makers in the front and walking in.

26:52

With. This relationship and this

26:54

trust were murdered. I help

26:56

him. With. Us because he helps

26:58

us. And it was those moments that stuck

27:01

in my mind as these things that you

27:03

can't do as an outsider no matter how

27:05

brilliant you aren't much cash you have. It's.

27:08

Very far to do that in certain

27:10

industries and we are fortunate enough to

27:13

have worked really, really hard in the

27:15

media businesses and employ incredibly talented, brilliant

27:17

people that helped to build those brands

27:20

And that allowed me to the move

27:22

to the next big thing which is

27:24

okay, let's French change how the whole

27:27

industry runs and that led me to

27:29

invent a building and really scale material

27:31

that. Was. Tell that story now

27:33

just of but some perspective for those listening,

27:36

but I'm familiar with the business. It be

27:38

hard to imagine even if you took all

27:40

your design related magazines and maybe all the

27:42

ones in the world will, they would not

27:44

be valued collectively at two billion dollars. That's

27:47

the last number I saw for the valuation

27:49

for Material Banks to the business. Built on

27:51

top of this trust and distribution that he

27:53

just talked about is worse, probably a lot

27:56

more than the media properties themselves could ever

27:58

be. And such a great excuse. The tell

28:00

that business story and I guess go back

28:02

to the original problem to use your theme

28:04

that you encountered in the industry and how

28:07

Material Bank and how you solve that with

28:09

the business. the founding moment of it. Yeah

28:12

I started to do but I always

28:14

do every one that works me with

28:16

the some very familiar. I started to

28:18

ask about pain points and I started

28:20

to make sure. That. These weren't

28:22

marketing pinpoints. These weren't what do you think

28:24

I can solve? Real I said. Tell.

28:27

Me: what are your problems just in

28:29

general As a designer, tell me or

28:31

frustration points. As a

28:33

Ceo of a company that globally

28:35

makes carpet tommy your frustration points

28:37

would have started to see. Was.

28:41

This. Is a cowardly of

28:43

our industry. Was becoming a

28:45

real pain points of here is in essence

28:47

the problem. Is. So the designer

28:49

and a designer would say mock. A

28:51

building, A hotel. I've done

28:54

a spec. Eighty. Thousand square

28:56

feet of marble. For this incredible

28:58

hotel. And I'm going to

29:00

find just the right product. Well what a

29:02

designer does that? They spend months looking. They're.

29:05

Getting samples are doing all kinds of

29:07

things to make that decision and by

29:10

the way as they get further and

29:12

further and design process now the client

29:14

the owner is trying to get those

29:16

samples. Least. Decisions or me

29:18

with this physical samples. They

29:20

go in, you switch to a manufacturer

29:23

and you say something about paint. What's

29:25

most a ball. Marketing is harder than

29:27

ever. Google. The rates

29:29

are unimaginable. How expensive it it

29:31

is, it's getting harder to market.

29:34

Or refs can get into see designers like

29:36

they used to. just carter in general and

29:38

oh by the way. Twelve.

29:41

Percent of my revenue. Goes. To

29:43

sampling. All percent of revenue.

29:45

Yeah, sampling is not going anywhere. And by

29:47

the way, I don't care how good the

29:50

goggles and have to feed black gloves get.

29:52

Your not speaking eighty thousand feet of a

29:55

marble by going well looks good on the

29:57

goggles. Legal advice. You

29:59

max? Down from twenty Marvel's the

30:01

three. But. The physical review

30:04

of a sample to make a

30:06

buying decision is this a central.

30:08

Messy. Complex that. And.

30:11

I remember. Some. Of the work for

30:13

me at the time. Many years ago when I sort of

30:15

this crazy idea. How talk to

30:18

designers and see I posed everyone most of. What

30:21

if I could change the way

30:23

that whole process happens? Article tell

30:25

you a little side story. I.

30:27

Am obsessed with. Collecting.

30:31

Data points and knowledge my brain does

30:33

not turn off. I got all you

30:35

collect data points and I collect. Just.

30:37

Bits of information and knowledge. My.

30:40

Whole life and a cup is

30:42

curiosity for. Everything.

30:45

I'm immensely curious about everything

30:48

and. There. Was a company

30:50

called Micro Warehouse i think was

30:52

or by Felix dentist who passed

30:55

away on maximum. Brilliant English businessman

30:57

and islam and nineties and Micro

30:59

Warehouse. Company is ahead of

31:01

its time. I would get the catalogs. And

31:04

on the cover of The Cabling remember it like it

31:06

was yesterday. There was all with a headset on and

31:08

it said. Order. Anything from

31:10

our catalog by three am.

31:13

And you'll have to more. This is the

31:15

nineties. Amazon wasn't even a thing. And

31:17

I would only order from. Because

31:20

in the nineties I was wearing every had

31:22

those building my company and I would drive

31:24

home at midnight and working all day and

31:26

night ordering a laptop for some employee starting

31:29

the next day one and I call, I'm

31:31

talking to the operator military drive and giving

31:33

up my credit card over the phone and

31:35

I still have a question how the hell

31:37

are you getting the a laser printer, a

31:39

Crt monitor and computer tomorrow? she does. Oh

31:41

sir, that's really easy, just weird. Or at

31:44

the Dhl headquarters it's like I heard nothing

31:46

else rest the night. This the most brilliant

31:48

thing I've ever heard of my life. And

31:51

then why isn't every warehouse at the

31:53

Dhl headquarters by the way? Unopposed shopping

31:55

at three in the morning. I'm getting

31:57

whatever price a given because I wanted

31:59

to world. Probably Amazon trump this

32:01

and ran with this website. But.

32:04

Micro Warehouse. Why does this incredibly

32:06

visionary company that would get me

32:08

everything the next day? He lives

32:10

of the nineties. I'm driving my

32:12

car at midnight. Met. Never left

32:14

my head. It literally never left my

32:16

head. So fast forward and we're building

32:19

Material Bank and. I'm talking

32:21

to designers. And that's a

32:23

tablet sampling. Outs kind of pain.

32:26

We sometimes have a little closet, very messy and

32:28

disorganized for usually all go on a website or

32:30

thought of form and and a week I get

32:32

the sample or I'll call a rap and bring

32:34

it over to me in a few days or

32:36

whatever and I should have. To. Have resembles

32:39

do you get like a we get thousands? This

32:41

is our job. My. Son's pretty

32:43

unbelievably slow, inefficient, not even sustainable

32:45

in boxes. And I'm oh my

32:47

god. become more male or a

32:49

daughter. Mailrooms: never the hours of

32:52

keep boxes and bricks and glass

32:54

in his helmet boxes. It was

32:56

a mess. So. I got

32:58

a message your voucher and I would say. How

33:00

do you handle samples like well We got

33:02

a guys in our warehouse and were in

33:05

St. Louis so two o'clock we cut off

33:07

we should everything ground because we're not grossman

33:09

the Mayans he was a mess on both

33:11

sides, was just a lot of mess and

33:13

I was starting focus groups of designers like

33:15

see I Can a Question. If

33:17

there was a website that you can go

33:19

on. With. Every manufacturer you

33:21

care about. And all their

33:23

data was there. All the photos

33:26

were there and you could request

33:28

samples. For. Free as

33:30

a designer until midnight. And

33:33

then at ten thirty in the morning, this

33:35

beautiful i spent a year design is

33:37

tackling this beautiful package shows up at

33:39

ten thirty on your desk with every mature

33:41

of maybe manufacture. And be

33:43

really final, Believe you, I'm I don't. I think I

33:46

want to build this. There's. No way

33:48

and desires would say that would change

33:50

the hours that that would give me

33:52

back. The boxes That would save

33:55

the mess. You would save a limited of

33:57

what if I could turn that box I

33:59

sent you federal. Return Box Postage Qaeda whenever

34:01

you the want the samples to keep what you

34:03

want sent back so I can put it back

34:05

on the shop. So. Designers

34:07

were already I stopped. The focus groups is

34:09

like adam. You'll never do

34:11

it. We would never use anything else if

34:14

you could do that game over. but. Come

34:16

on, how are you going to get? these material has

34:18

an aggregate of all how you gonna do it. So

34:21

I went to. I. Won't say who what.

34:23

One of the people used to work for me a

34:25

top guy and a separate this crazy idea. Again,

34:28

Other side note: I will never

34:30

build a business. Peter Digital. Never.

34:33

There too hard there too hard.

34:35

You wake up one morning and

34:38

your business has been taken over

34:40

by Microsoft, Amazon. Google Started kids.

34:42

I don't like pure digital businesses.

34:44

They're too hard to build. Your

34:46

failure rate is just astronomical. I

34:48

don't like. Pure. Digital This

34:51

I like things that are

34:53

messy and complicated because the

34:55

pain. To do what I

34:57

want You material bank is not the pain, the

34:59

average person or the average start up. whatever. Do.

35:02

So. I like that barrier. So. I

35:04

went to manufacturers and I said. I

35:07

walk into means like I'm jealous of google. Would.

35:09

Mean A Michael Google has the best add model in the

35:12

world. Schools at model was.

35:14

A will run your little link is many

35:16

times as you want, we want him in

35:18

charge you for it, but when someone clicks

35:20

which are due to. Greatest at

35:22

model ever, Amazon and Google speech other

35:25

different models but this google ad was

35:27

model. As a publisher I was bloody

35:29

jealous of. Source: Of how can I

35:31

build a model so I know the design of

35:33

I know the demand side will be there if

35:35

I could do it. hard to do but if

35:37

I could. but how do I create a bottle

35:39

that is. Compelling for

35:41

a manufacturer. And. It looks

35:44

that Google Adwords model and I thought well this

35:46

is so brilliant and I started to talk to

35:48

manufacturers like I got an idea. I'll

35:50

take every piece of material.

35:53

Every piece of data all do all the data work

35:55

myself. Don't lift a finger. I will literally. Build.

35:58

A normalize your data structure put on. The

36:00

website. no cost. Okay. every sample you

36:02

have. Bring an eighteen wheeler. back it

36:04

up to my building idol loaded into

36:07

my warehouse. No. Cost. I

36:10

want sex dollars every time I find

36:12

a designer that I've quantify that says

36:14

I Love that carpet I want the

36:16

carpet authentic, sit overnight, or put all

36:19

of that data. Right into

36:21

your Crm. See yourself another to do

36:23

anything but up having coffee and go

36:25

Who got my samples, who I follow

36:28

up with and I'll charge you transactional

36:30

of charge you cost per action. The

36:33

manufacturer too sanguine about know

36:35

sampling. Know warehouses? know nothing.

36:37

Know. Your. Civic put leads

36:39

into my Crm and I'll pick you

36:41

transaction like google. Done.

36:44

So we were able to build a bottle

36:46

that supply and demand sides of the marketplace.

36:48

We're very happy with. An

36:51

because of that media platform that

36:53

I spent the past twenty years

36:55

building I had access to customer

36:57

acquisition which is again done the

36:59

hardest thing in any business with

37:01

digital or spits your costs requisition

37:03

cause your lifetime value. Well I've

37:05

had this ability. To.

37:08

Enter the firm's. To this

37:10

day we are media company still

37:12

drives be awareness for material that

37:14

we're of the builders. Really really

37:17

innovative model but what I had

37:19

to do. And. Where that

37:21

story of micro warehouse comes in is.

37:24

Even our research showed a

37:26

seven o'clock class would be

37:28

so beyond expectations. Forget

37:31

it came over, They would love it. I

37:33

said i'm I see alone. I

37:35

said workers do midnight because. There's.

37:37

One place on the entire planet.

37:40

The. You could do that. It's Memphis, Tennessee because

37:42

a Fedex. There's no other place on planet

37:44

earth to do it. So I'd

37:47

have been amount as he'd ever been. Numbers

37:49

like we're gonna Memphis and Will Find. A

37:51

logistics provider cause we've never been and

37:54

logistics we go to Memphis we have

37:56

to big meetings. We knew effects and

37:58

we said a Fedex. We.

38:00

Will be. The. Number one

38:02

shipper of Priority overnight packages

38:04

at Memphis. Please.

38:07

Help us get there. And they

38:09

were amazing. Sex has been amazing. Partner:

38:11

they took a serious. They actually really

38:13

took a serious. And

38:15

I went to all these for Pokemon companies. And

38:18

we were last out of the room. These.

38:20

Companies in Memphis? What you want to have?

38:23

Twenty million pieces of material.

38:26

Five hundred thousand. Scuse.

38:29

You want to take a break and a piece

38:31

of glass rock? Put it in one package and

38:33

over nine that three in the morning. Literally

38:36

has left out of the ramp

38:38

like. We're. Not interested. You'll never

38:40

do it. We. Left Memphis going

38:42

like no one wants our business. So.

38:45

We do, We always do. We found

38:47

and eighty thousand foot doping. Those.

38:49

Is ramshackle building on? like organiser

38:52

gonna do this because the value

38:54

of mastering midnight cut off overnight

38:56

delivery to the country. Is.

38:58

A big value. And added want

39:01

some the cause I wanted. So.

39:03

We. Hooked up with a robotics

39:05

partner of Locusts Robotics from day one. They were

39:07

just starting out. We were just starting out. The.

39:10

Cel love what I doing and I

39:12

said i'm gonna build my business on

39:14

your backbone on Fedex backbone you gotta

39:17

help me And they did And we

39:19

spun up our first logistics operation and

39:21

in they have eighteen! We literally were

39:24

doing Midnight Club off of everything we

39:26

invented, the packaging, everything was done. Am

39:29

today. We're in a massive facility

39:31

handling gym that haves and the

39:33

volume events, hundreds of robots and

39:35

an amazing team of people but

39:37

you can order to night. At.

39:41

Eleven Fifty Eight. Eighty nine

39:43

pieces of material from twenty five

39:45

companies. And your have to

39:47

and thirty and our failure rate as

39:49

point o one the our team in

39:52

Memphis. Our. Chief What or six

39:54

officer Steve Smith is just incredible that

39:56

whereas doesn't fail and it's now be

39:58

com many years later now the utility

40:00

that the industry runs on because that's

40:02

where everyone goes to find materials when

40:04

they're looking to source of. And we've

40:06

got the it's A. They will probably

40:09

a third of a fortune. One thousand

40:11

companies that use a savant just architects

40:13

and designers. You've got some of the

40:15

biggest corporations the world, their teams. Sourcing.

40:18

Materials. And we connect the right to

40:20

the manufacturers. It's. An absolute

40:23

faith in credible, Business.

40:25

Story I love the knows me don't like

40:28

pure digital businesses and I love the notion

40:30

that it's all built on itself. The slowly

40:32

been learning these lessons of the next thing

40:34

is always built on the shoulders of everything

40:36

you've done before. So. Much of

40:39

it rests if you go back

40:41

to the beginning on delivering a

40:43

fantastic media product with great content

40:45

and high quality content in. It's

40:47

what did you learn about that

40:49

notion about what high quality content

40:51

means for a given audience and

40:53

how to find people that can

40:55

produce it reliably because in the

40:57

quest for more eyeballs like you

40:59

said, Games. That people would

41:01

play to have a higher quote unquote

41:03

circulation. I'm sure that quality suffered in

41:06

your. Efforts. Have always been about

41:08

the highest quality content to one of the

41:10

variables of content itself the you still adhere

41:12

to today. As you think about building you're

41:14

buying a new media property. Well.

41:16

It starts with having the best people. The.

41:18

People that are at the

41:20

foundation of our editorial products

41:22

have been here a really

41:25

long time there. honestly the

41:27

best in the industry and

41:29

because we don't play those

41:31

games of. Click. Bait

41:33

or any of our website.

41:35

So. When. You allow the

41:37

editorial teams really do with they

41:39

want without the constraints of a

41:42

lot of media companies today that

41:44

are just constraining them to produce

41:46

a certain kind of content for

41:48

mass eyeballs. That is in my

41:50

opinion, apsley the way to lose

41:52

as to do that. So I

41:54

try and find the best people

41:57

and give them a lot of

41:59

autonomy to. To allow them to

42:01

deal with they do the best and

42:03

they used to be that way. They

42:05

used to have these editors that world

42:07

exalted and it just powerful and that

42:09

does mouth anymore. Because a lot of

42:12

the media undiscussed cross all media has

42:14

changed. To. That mass eyeball.

42:16

They're not going to do tic

42:18

talks that I couldn't compete with

42:21

instruments it.first literally mindshare or podcast

42:23

as a category today, so you

42:25

better have extraordinary content. It's gotta

42:27

be special And that was my

42:29

attitude from the beginning. When.

42:31

I bought new beauty. I said how like

42:34

create a different kind of beauty magazine? There was a result

42:36

of beauty magazines after they're gone now, but there were a

42:38

bunch. How do I create something?

42:41

Really special. I did something unique with

42:43

new beauty. I. Went. Ahead

42:45

I built a Native Soil Advisory

42:47

team of some of the most

42:49

important best minds and beauty that

42:51

it's of beauty from nutrition all

42:53

the way to plastic surgery. And

42:56

we got these incredible people that

42:59

help us create guard rails for

43:01

the product. And to this

43:03

day I mean literally that chairman of

43:05

the A Patrol Advisory Board.robert Singer is

43:07

still the chairman from the day I

43:10

started that magazine. One of the most

43:12

important successful plastic surgeons now retired but

43:14

see guided us. We did note that

43:16

we're doing even our editors were early

43:18

so. We. Were able to be

43:20

guided to have as rural integrity to make

43:23

sure that our content was that it properly

43:25

really come you don't do that. Is

43:27

only two thousand and five. Nord was handing

43:29

over a lot of power to a board.

43:32

From. A privately held business but it'll almost

43:34

doubled. incredibly high value of of a little

43:36

product. The to this day as never waver

43:38

but I just never felt right to chase

43:41

when everyone else was chasing an hour to

43:43

look at some of the biggest digital media

43:45

companies that have blown up. Companies were five

43:47

billion dollars their the future of media and

43:49

they were gonna bankruptcy it would have thought.

43:51

So it's just a tricky, very tricky industry.

43:54

It's not an easy one. Maybe.

43:56

We could talk a little bit about

43:58

to build verse by decision in media

44:00

properties because you've done both. And so

44:02

obviously sometimes it's appropriate by a storied

44:04

hundred year old brand or property? Sometimes

44:06

you don't smoke from scratch. What are

44:08

the considerations that go into one versus

44:10

the other since you seem to be

44:12

willing to the best. Look.

44:15

I think if you can buy a

44:17

brand that's got a story or Heritage

44:19

reputation, it's always better. Odyssey depends on

44:21

the deal, depends on structured tons of

44:23

how well the brand it's receive. Sometimes

44:25

when the media business they killed the

44:27

brands and then you can buy them

44:30

in their not worth a lot is

44:32

or could it bastardized. but I think

44:34

is a lot a great media brands

44:36

that could potentially be bought and it's

44:38

something with Heritage. It's for licensing business

44:40

plans or resurrected all the time. And

44:42

read imagine There's something to be said.

44:44

For that history I like a

44:46

story when I bought injured design.

44:49

We. Were given the archives. Going.

44:51

Back almost a hundred years and I

44:53

love that to go back in there

44:55

and see what Where people talking about

44:58

nine years ago about office design or

45:00

home design work is one like the

45:02

archive of worth the brand everyone do.

45:04

So when you reintroduce at there is

45:07

a credibility and again you look at

45:09

what we did with worth some of

45:11

the most beautiful. Magazines.

45:13

With ever produced we did illustrations on

45:15

the covers. It was just absolutely gorgeous

45:18

and it really resonated with the industry.

45:20

if you can buy it on. A

45:22

big believer in buying. I.

45:25

Think Today buildings heart. So

45:27

I love to build brands and were

45:29

closely building new things but we're still

45:31

acquiring. We acquired a fifteen year old

45:34

Design web site called Design Don't I

45:36

bought that are few months ago were

45:38

about to buy two more digital platforms

45:40

in the design space took of a

45:42

that our ecosystem so a big believer

45:44

in buying. I'd love

45:46

to build. I'm a zero to one builder.

45:48

I love to invent. But. If

45:51

you do that on abram, it's got credibility. I think

45:53

it's even better. If. You were

45:55

teaching a class about building a

45:57

brand from scratch he media specifically.

46:00

Whoa. That syllabus look like what in your

46:02

experience have been the most important things to

46:04

nail to. Do. That you're the one

46:06

which is so hard boss. The.

46:08

Most important thing. Forget.

46:10

Brand forget designed for equality. Is.

46:13

What is your. Value. Proposition.

46:16

The. World doesn't need another or whatever.

46:18

so what are you doing that's unique

46:21

and special? I have never built me

46:23

to businesses and sometimes to our detriment

46:25

of never followed. Whatever way this coming

46:28

along Constable called great ideas or whether

46:30

to magazine or anything. I've got a

46:32

great idea for this and maybe even

46:35

the canvas there. But. What

46:37

is not viable business model again

46:39

because I fund. Everything

46:41

myself, There is no down

46:43

around for me. I spent all

46:45

her money doing dumb things. We got

46:47

a business so I try and find

46:49

businesses what makes sense to me and

46:52

I feel as an incredible. Value

46:54

proposition that I'm delivering to the user,

46:56

to the reader, to the customer. And

46:58

there's a business model attached. And if

47:00

a teacher media business today, that's where

47:02

you have to obsess. Where there are

47:04

a whole. And by the way, Really?

47:07

Hard to find polls today, but they're out

47:09

there on sitting on his few ideas I've

47:11

had. That. I. Want to

47:13

build. I'm so busy on other launches

47:15

right now but there are holes in

47:18

the market but you're gonna have a

47:20

real reason for being if you're just

47:22

being of me to the world doesn't

47:24

need it and now you gotta basically

47:26

outperform out operate an incumbent which made

47:28

you can do made you can't but

47:30

I've never wanted to be that guy

47:32

going were just like that one but

47:34

were cheaper and I were just like

47:37

that for different. I don't know. It's

47:39

not exciting for me. I think that

47:41

I would urge anyone in media, certainly, so

47:43

I have a love for it. What's different?

47:45

Where's are bright business model attached to it's

47:47

where's are in need. It's underserved, There's

47:50

a niche you can go into. Because.

47:52

There's a lot out there. I

47:54

mean today. Fighting for attention is

47:56

everyone's fighting for attention That we

47:58

literally live in a world. If.

48:00

You don't look at the old science fiction

48:02

movies of the guy walked down the street

48:05

and billboards, tottenham and things flashing and things

48:07

covering and stuff. the world we live in

48:09

today. our attention span, futile website and you're

48:11

like, what's the average time on site? Thirty

48:14

eight seconds. That's pretty good. But. You

48:16

know that? That's. Not great,

48:18

but in the world of web,

48:20

you're a minute. My god, you're

48:22

telling. Eleven minutes Tossed so. Where.

48:25

Do you find those really juicy needs where

48:27

there's an underserved are completely missed market and

48:29

how do you do differently? I had a

48:31

group they all three didn't win but they're

48:33

trying to by Time magazine and I sat

48:36

my race from to half a day with

48:38

though and I saw I wouldn't reenvisioned Time

48:40

magazine and. Was tough guy from

48:42

ideas but it's like toss, how do you

48:44

do that. You. Can but it's

48:46

tough but we're seeing i me look like

48:49

magazine was just bought. By. Kosher

48:51

and an amazing brand. Great.

48:53

Heritage. You. Could probably do

48:56

something incredible that. But it's gotta

48:58

be something special or jimmy get lost. So.

49:00

They're out of as opportunities and I love

49:03

those heritage branch personally. I'd love

49:05

to come back to the two step process

49:07

of problem identification in their bodies that you're

49:09

serving and then business model innovation and take

49:11

them one of the time. How have you

49:13

gotten better and all the times that you've

49:15

done this at getting to the core problems

49:18

because there must be more to it than

49:20

just you shops or and say tomorrow your

49:22

problem is. Maybe that does work but you

49:24

have the Henry Ford thing of it. One

49:26

faster Horses are some thanks. So what did

49:28

you gotten better at? In.

49:30

This part of the problem Identification of knowing who

49:32

to talk to, how to talk to them, what

49:35

sorts of questions ask them, I

49:37

ask a lot of questions and because

49:39

like I so, I'm constantly as a

49:41

human collecting data points on everything and

49:43

because I'm so naturally curious I take

49:46

it as a challenge to find the

49:48

problem. I don't get the answers, I

49:50

never talk to you want me to

49:52

a problem the him he answers but

49:54

it's really the weighty. I have this

49:57

iterative process of. Absorbing. The

49:59

and really. Thinking about it

50:01

and I parallel pass. The.

50:03

Thinking what the business model and I

50:06

literally was on his do this by

50:08

hand Osu, my notebook and I will

50:10

fill twenty pages of can mass manual

50:12

math. thinking. Through the business

50:14

model, everything at once. The only I

50:17

can explain it as. I

50:19

do everything at one time. I envision.

50:21

The. Solution. The business model,

50:24

The economics, the work, the field. I

50:26

do everything at one time and that

50:28

is something. It's a gift for my

50:30

parents. I guess that's when I brain works by

50:32

the. That's. Why I love and.

50:35

It's something I've done my whole life. Because.

50:37

Of the other day when you start your own business. I.

50:40

Was a salesman. Article soviets I needed

50:43

a really great pets and I would talk

50:45

about what the ad could do for you

50:47

or how can we designed yeah deliver the

50:49

solution So bizarre always been ingrained in me

50:52

as a media guy. He would have built

50:54

mature by going closer start a monthly fee

50:56

for the listing and horrible model eliminate the

50:58

business would be a tiny pm a business

51:00

today so. I. Think a lot of

51:03

pride in. Be. Engineering of the

51:05

solution and refining of the solution got to up

51:07

with the answer. Literally when I can have a

51:09

betrayal my old figure out Vollmer I know I

51:11

considered out if other people could figure it out.

51:13

I know I could figure it out and let

51:16

that bother me. Whereas a lot of the companies

51:18

may have said where's your logistics team and how

51:20

do you build them. If. I've gotten

51:22

a viable way to generate a lot

51:24

of business. I. Can sort of golem

51:26

of anything. Is. The same set

51:29

of principles, The way that you

51:31

have great relationships with advertisers. Are

51:33

you training your team's to ask the question

51:35

of not just send the ad you want

51:38

to post but instead of what are your

51:40

problems helpless engineer the best advertisement that's gonna

51:42

get the solution that you want. What?

51:44

Have you learned about the keys to good relationships

51:46

with advertisers? It's how we

51:48

run. Our most important

51:50

relationships I'm sure we saw

51:52

and but our most important

51:54

relationships are. Solutions to

51:57

their problems are major teams do

51:59

that. Interior Design rolled out of

52:01

the program. The see others

52:03

are all born. She rolled up

52:05

this new program called Max and

52:08

it's an entirely new Solutions turnkey,

52:10

really comprehensive solution to companies problems

52:12

at many levels. Every one of

52:14

our brains does that. We've. Always

52:16

had to do that to keep out of

52:19

our competition. but it's the same thinking. Before

52:21

I had anything else with media I would sit

52:23

meetings going. What? Are your business problem? So

52:25

our legal we have a problem getting arrested. Architecture

52:28

Firms a literally will not take our call because

52:30

they love our competitors and they hate us. Okay.

52:33

Let's. Figure out how to use the

52:35

tools that we have to accomplish a

52:37

solution not just put out would you

52:39

like and we've always had that Dna.

52:41

I've just taken that Dna further now

52:43

to other industries and a lot of

52:46

our expansion into new businesses from our

52:48

media platforms are all from that. What?

52:51

Did you learn about buying? Well so in the

52:53

deal that you've done. Especially when

52:55

or use the were distressed in some cases

52:57

some of these legacy brands. Hundred years heritage

52:59

but a bad current business as you're looking

53:01

to buy it and I was here in

53:04

come in and change. That's what did you

53:06

learned about the bidding process had a price

53:08

these things where they tend to price considerations

53:10

in Amman A in the space that says

53:13

different than I'm sure than flying a software

53:15

business works or something. Yeah. Spoke

53:17

because I use my own capital and

53:19

something bank debt on things we need

53:22

it but because I don't have private

53:24

equity in the business or we don't

53:26

raise capital army reserves couple from its

53:28

are like the that was it When

53:30

I buy things are typically value buyers

53:32

of distress product. We're not a roll

53:35

up buying incredibly high performing assets and

53:37

trying to roll the but I think

53:39

that's really hoping to differ Media so

53:41

we tend to buy things that we

53:43

look at and zip under our cost

53:45

rock shirts with our team and our

53:48

ability. I. Believe this to

53:50

become a creative pretty quickly. We tend to

53:52

look for those kinds of deals to they

53:54

were not buying as much. It's

53:56

just not a core part of my strategy. I

53:59

prefer. I wanted something really

54:01

special at injured as a magazine was

54:03

the idea that this was even available

54:05

was shocking. But it was the time.

54:08

There was no buyers, no buyers for

54:10

this asset. Chance of a lifetime. He.

54:12

Would be a little start up business

54:15

buying both. Pretty amazing those options.com around

54:17

a lot. In a lot of times

54:19

the media this is to beaten up.

54:21

It's too hard. In really good frothy

54:23

times I did old and really bad

54:26

times. When the world's ending I buy.

54:29

What? Else would you say is important

54:31

or surprising about prince the physical

54:33

thing itself. But. You've learned is

54:35

important about running a good print publication or

54:37

something or something to print on lox. The

54:40

digital doesn't just like anything we haven't mentioned

54:42

are sad about the importance of prep. Battery.

54:45

Here's the most important thing. Here's the thing

54:47

that I believe and more now than I

54:49

ever had. I

54:51

like boating were like said at my desk. I

54:54

give myself time to look at one of the body

54:56

magazines I like. I'm not

54:58

distracted. And and captured.

55:00

There's no blinking things with messages

55:02

on.something on talktalk, the nothing blaring

55:05

and in the moment. And it's

55:07

getting my undivided attention. And that's

55:09

a luxury now. I'm. More.

55:12

Curatorial. Than ever of what I will do that

55:14

with. I picked up a business magazine of

55:16

a damn. I couldn't wait to get

55:19

through it. The paper was horrible. The advertorials

55:21

everything about it was terrible. There was some

55:23

on the cover. want to read about Sam

55:25

Thousand and I could? Way to but.drop in

55:27

the trash. Other magazines. If

55:30

it's as a place on my

55:32

desk or at home I think

55:34

that's where print signs. It's hard

55:36

to capture the imagination using the

55:38

right mix of content. Already decided

55:40

to write niche. But. If

55:43

you're into these things, if you're

55:45

into home design and you're really

55:47

driving about your next home, you

55:49

want that peace and quiet. You

55:51

don't want the blinking banners. You

55:53

don't want things popping up gears.

55:55

The best example. Go on

55:58

and read an article from it. Miller

56:00

News site. On. Your mobile phone.

56:03

You. Want to throw your phone across?

56:05

Think there's trick banners? things pop ups

56:07

euro with the article stops. So much

56:09

garbage. And the reason there's so much

56:12

garbage is that media company desperately desperately

56:14

need you to miss. Click on a

56:16

stupid banner to get the two pennies

56:19

and that is a recipe for disaster.

56:21

And I kids are you more times

56:23

than not. I will follow

56:26

linked to an article and I will abandon

56:28

the article because as twelve pop ups on

56:30

his take this as and it's unbelievably irritating.

56:32

So. In my time is more valuable

56:34

that so. I. Think that's where print

56:37

comes in, but it's part of an

56:39

ecosystem. It has to be in my

56:41

opinion, part of. And there's a time

56:43

for that print when you can do

56:45

assuming on a podcast. Why thing? A

56:47

lot Podcast so much. I think whether

56:49

so popular is it's you're giving yourself

56:51

that time There podcast. Listen to an

56:53

hour. An hour and fifteen minutes of

56:55

my life and I focused on one

56:57

thing that is deep. Deep. Deep

57:00

value. You. Can compare that to

57:02

bouncing on a website or flipping a social

57:04

media? Think so. I think print know back

57:06

into that. I think when you build that

57:08

ecosystem we're at, it is a component of.

57:11

That's. Where of the one plus one is five and

57:13

I think it's a necessary evil. When

57:16

you are. Designing the business

57:18

model itself behind the distribution. Have you

57:20

ever done it where you have the

57:22

equivalent of the material bank in mind

57:25

and then built Or bought? The.

57:27

Magazine or the media property to serve

57:29

that and saying or is it always

57:31

the other way around. Know so

57:34

the new. Baby that I'm

57:36

incubating which is another technology and

57:38

logistics business having nothing's you design

57:40

a very much technology and logistics

57:42

a much bigger industry Candidly be

57:44

the the Mb the seats. We're

57:46

actually doing the reversed. Were advancing

57:49

the one of one. Business.

57:51

It's never been built before

57:53

and we're taking a media

57:55

property. And completely pivoting

57:57

the media property to. No.

58:00

Of Tale right into the editorial content

58:02

that will help support this and have

58:04

a strawberry ecosystem. Soaps for the very

58:06

first time we're doing at the opposite.

58:08

We're starting with our business thesis. We're

58:10

building out this technology companies and ah,

58:12

public media but we're building on fire.

58:14

Platform has got. Massive user

58:17

base and. Tangential. Users

58:19

do We think we'll dig this particular

58:21

content Fighting? It's important. I think go

58:23

back to that ecosystem of having this

58:25

multi disciplinary committee ecosystem to help build

58:28

those still you creator businesses. That to

58:30

your point three with a hundred x

58:32

the media or more. but they worked

58:34

together. I just think media guys just

58:37

not done enough of this. Mostly on

58:39

great assets and they're so big media

58:41

other you get the sort of guys

58:43

thinking of start off and they're both

58:45

pretty far apart. You. Mentioned

58:48

earlier. Sometimes people build a single business and

58:50

all their wealth is tied up in one

58:52

thing in the work and one thing forever

58:54

you've done. Some be very interesting which is

58:56

real out described as Billie Ecosystem at Toward

58:58

You've used a few times where everything's built

59:00

on the last set of things. They're all

59:02

sort of intertwined. they're like a cross compounding

59:04

a fact that happens. and this is a

59:06

very cool way of building that's appropriate for

59:08

some entrepreneurs. What advice would you give the

59:10

people that wanna do that sort of thing

59:12

and maybe another way of ask you would

59:15

be what have you done wrong. And.

59:17

Corrected and learn from. To.

59:19

Nurture an ecosystem of businesses and brands

59:21

vs just building the one company that

59:23

so many people tell. Yeah.

59:26

I've always been. A builder

59:28

versus a flipper. And I don't mean

59:31

flipping in a bad way. There's

59:33

a lot of founders going coming to build. I'm.

59:35

Gonna raise capital I'm going to accept and

59:37

I'll go on and eighty the next thing.

59:39

I've always taken a long term approach to

59:41

every single thing I do in my life.

59:43

I have never built a business going. Okay,

59:46

When I started it gives my

59:48

exit plan and we have accidents.

59:50

Some businesses and I have done

59:52

really well in those exits but

59:54

for the most part I've always

59:56

liked to build unfold and see

59:59

what I can build on top

1:00:01

and I think advice is. Starting

1:00:03

with building a business that is really

1:00:05

strong and it's got a good model

1:00:08

with good economics. Biggest one speeds the

1:00:10

other. So if you could build something,

1:00:12

the cash flows and use their cash

1:00:14

to build the next thing. That to

1:00:16

me as a Badger, you're not selling.

1:00:18

If you're not flipping out of it,

1:00:20

you're using the cash flow to build

1:00:22

the next thing. And I've done that

1:00:24

my whole life. And. By the

1:00:26

way that it's on has been really really

1:00:28

hard. You start to use bank debt economies

1:00:31

change. It's easy to look at certain things

1:00:33

we've done and going My god, it's billions

1:00:35

dollars of value created. but. When.

1:00:37

You're on your own when you don't

1:00:39

have partners, when you don't have investors,

1:00:42

when you don't have a board, It's

1:00:44

unbelievably liberty and free. And that's how

1:00:46

I'm wired. But you're also one guy.

1:00:49

And when things turn and change

1:00:51

something else I'm because it's gonna

1:00:53

fix it. So very careful to

1:00:55

bit old businesses that allow you

1:00:57

to build the next, the next,

1:00:59

the next and Material Bank was.

1:01:02

Unique. I knew that

1:01:04

I had the potential. Something very, very

1:01:06

big. Ab responded a lot of

1:01:09

it the first few years of a lot

1:01:11

of capital myself but I made that decision.

1:01:13

I said this is a business that. Is.

1:01:15

Gonna be bigger. Than.

1:01:18

Just another piece of might ecosystem.

1:01:20

As if I don't raise capital,

1:01:23

I run the risk of. Not.

1:01:26

Scaling it's fast enough milk. but bank

1:01:28

today is scaled massive operations and Europe

1:01:30

we've got a partnership and Japan were

1:01:32

looking another big countries. It is a

1:01:34

global business today. I. Raise

1:01:37

Capital made that decision to

1:01:39

bring in outside investors, but.

1:01:42

I. Was always in control and to this

1:01:44

day to control the board and to control

1:01:46

the company because I took all those early

1:01:48

risks so I wasn't raising seed capital and

1:01:50

then raising a series A And then by

1:01:53

the time you're on your see, you've lost

1:01:55

control the board and we were lucky enough

1:01:57

to find them. I brought in an incredible

1:01:59

Cel. Credible Background:

1:02:01

amazing person. Is now

1:02:04

the Ceo and I will to executive chairman

1:02:06

which again frees me up to build the

1:02:08

next thing So. He. Got to

1:02:10

start by making sure that those foundational

1:02:13

businesses are good. That. Can help you

1:02:15

grow. up there. Was a point where was A

1:02:17

So he came up mistakes. One of

1:02:19

the mistakes I made early on was

1:02:21

I didn't build and of leadership in

1:02:24

the company so I was doing everything

1:02:26

on every breath. I've addressed my team

1:02:28

and the times like the most proud.

1:02:31

If you're Acidity Adam, what do you

1:02:33

the most proud? It's actually what I

1:02:35

build. something. That. I turned over

1:02:37

to a leader. And. They

1:02:39

continue. To be successful

1:02:42

and bro without me because

1:02:44

I. Truly. Believe in that.

1:02:46

No ego and all, but I just have

1:02:48

the mentality that I will figure it out.

1:02:50

I don't care what the hell happens, I

1:02:52

will figure out how to make it successful.

1:02:55

I watch one hundred Hours week. If I

1:02:57

have do I will build that I will

1:02:59

make it successful. Sort through sheer force of

1:03:01

nature I thought I could do it. But.

1:03:04

That's not sustainable so what can I could build

1:03:06

something and handed to someone and I can come

1:03:08

in for a quarterly beating and I leave impressed

1:03:11

going. I got there killing it was his business.

1:03:13

That to me is what I feel most successful

1:03:15

in. I'm most proud is it's living beyond me

1:03:17

so I can to build the next thing because

1:03:19

I love that zero to one. Have.

1:03:22

You can only receive one magazine in print the

1:03:24

rest of your life's not counting ones that you

1:03:26

own mode to pack. I. Mean it's

1:03:28

hard to be give harnessed. Although.

1:03:30

If it was the only thing I could look at

1:03:32

I think the diversity of monocle I would have to

1:03:35

say would be an interesting ones are it's hard to

1:03:37

get through an issue there's so much gone to the

1:03:39

next but economist or monocle I think or to a

1:03:41

really good ones that are hard to beat. Adam

1:03:44

your stories One a more interesting business stores I've

1:03:46

come across in a long time. I really appreciate

1:03:48

you sharing it with us today as get Roman

1:03:51

I interviewed the same traditional closing question: what is

1:03:53

the kindest thing that anyone's ever done for you.

1:03:55

And. Ear and asses and have not gotten

1:03:58

this question before. Try point of. One

1:04:00

thing I can tell you I have

1:04:02

incredible parents that have always given the

1:04:04

incredible advice and support through all of

1:04:06

my endeavors and I think that this

1:04:08

constant support good times bad times when

1:04:11

I tried to to my two girls

1:04:13

it's give me the underlying ability to

1:04:15

do what I do. I used to

1:04:17

job back in the early days like

1:04:19

was source of happens. Bills Go of

1:04:21

is under the my parents and on

1:04:23

the back of my seats but I

1:04:26

think my parents were always. Incredibly

1:04:28

supportive. Of success and failure

1:04:31

And it's something it's always stuck with

1:04:33

me, and something that is hardwired into

1:04:35

meeting with my two kids and my

1:04:37

wife. It's. A foundational building block that

1:04:39

I think is essential in life and I

1:04:41

was lucky enough to get it and I

1:04:43

think I'll give that to those. Was simple

1:04:46

and beautiful place to close out again. Thanks

1:04:48

to mature times nurtured. Thank you so much.

1:04:52

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