0:00

Oh geez, Dad, not the car again.

0:02

Oh, happens all the time with old Betsy. Have

0:04

you checked out Carvana yet? They have thousands

0:07

of cars for under $20,000. But

0:09

do those thousands of cars have personality

0:11

like old Betsy? Betsy is held together by

0:13

tape. And there are raccoons living in the engine.

0:16

Psh, it's a family car. Uh, there are flames

0:18

on the hood. Ah, custom paint job. No,

0:20

Dad, the car's on fire.

0:22

How many cars did you say Carvana had? Visit

0:24

carvana.com to shop thousands of cars

0:26

for under $20,000. We'll drive you

0:28

happy at Carvana.

0:52

Irish

0:59

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forward slash Irish podcast. That's patreon.com

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forward slash Irish podcast. You'll find

1:29

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1:30

below.

1:36

Hello and welcome to the Irish History Podcast.

1:39

My name is Fionn Duar, and

1:42

this is The Road to War, episode

1:44

one of the Irish Civil War.

1:48

This series is exclusively available

1:50

for you, the supporters of the show. Thanks

1:54

so much for your support. It means an awful

1:56

lot to me and makes such a difference. I

1:58

hope you enjoy listening. to this series as much

2:01

as I did putting it together. It was a

2:03

really fascinating one to make. Now

2:06

while I'm going to get right into the topic of the

2:08

Civil War, I just want to explain how the

2:10

series will be structured because this is the

2:12

first episode. Each podcast

2:15

is based around a conversation with

2:17

Dr. Brian Hanley.

2:19

Brian is an assistant professor in 20th

2:21

century Irish history in Trinity College Dublin.

2:24

He is also a leading authority on the revolutionary

2:27

era and the Republican movement and

2:29

his perspectives on the Civil War are

2:32

a fresh take that challenge common

2:34

misconceptions that are taken as given.

2:37

Finally a word of thanks to Brian for

2:39

his time, to Kate Dornley for her

2:41

work on sound, to Stuart Redden

2:44

for his research and most importantly

2:47

to you

2:48

for your support which makes it possible

2:50

to create content like this.

2:52

Now to the podcast.

2:59

The Irish Civil War from June 1922 to

3:01

May 1923 remains one of the most important conflicts in

3:07

modern Irish history.

3:08

Yet it was surprisingly brief and

3:10

the death toll by European standards

3:13

of the time was very low. The

3:15

war lasted around 11 months, there were

3:17

very few large scale battles

3:19

and while experts differ on casualties

3:22

it's generally agreed that less than 2000 people

3:24

were killed. To offer something of a comparison

3:27

in Finland a country of a roughly similar

3:29

size around 30,000

3:31

people were killed in a civil war that lasted

3:34

about half the time.

3:36

However death tolls are a very limited

3:38

metric to understand the impact

3:40

of a war. In 2020

3:43

the historians Yunino Halpin and

3:45

Dáil Corón wrote in their book The

3:47

Dead of the Irish Revolution. Death

3:49

is not an accurate index of the

3:51

level of political turmoil or its impact

3:54

on a people and this is certainly

3:56

the case when it comes to the civil war.

3:58

It haunted Ireland and Irish history.

3:59

politics for generations, so

4:02

much so that journalists today

4:04

still write articles questioning if

4:07

civil war politics is being played out

4:09

in Ireland in the 21st century.

4:12

The bitterness that this war engendered

4:14

was evident from the gecko.

4:17

During the course of our conversation, Brian

4:19

recalled this story

4:21

that took place at the end of the conflict. That

4:23

might sound like a strange place to start

4:26

a series on the civil war,

4:28

but this account conveys the depth of bitterness

4:31

the war created and contextualises

4:33

what we're about to discuss. In

4:35

the winter of 1923, there was a major

4:38

hunger strike of Republican prisoners,

4:40

and this actually involved thousands of prisoners, of

4:42

course.

4:43

But during the course of that strike, I think,

4:45

was an IRA man named Bob DeCorsie

4:47

who was in jail with Ernie O'Malley, and

4:50

he remarked to him that he couldn't remember a thing about

4:52

the Tan War, not a damn thing. Now, this

4:54

is only

4:55

a couple of years, if that, after the

4:57

end of the

5:00

War of Independence. So I suppose it shows

5:02

you how the civil war ultimately

5:04

clouded the

5:06

memory of those involved in it

5:08

about earlier events and about past comradeships

5:11

and past struggles. But also then how it

5:13

poisoned, I think,

5:16

the four glorious years, if they were that, how

5:18

for many people they were poisoned by the outcome. And I suppose,

5:20

again, I suppose we forget that

5:23

a large chunk of those who take part

5:25

in the Easter Rising and take a part in the War of Independence

5:28

sat out to civil war where neutral didn't want

5:30

to take part in it. And that even for those who did

5:32

take part in it, I think it did cancel

5:34

out to a great degree any glory

5:37

that there might have been

5:38

in the fight for independence. Again, Frank Aiken

5:41

said early on in the civil war, you know, that

5:43

in his view, war against the

5:45

foreigner brought out all that was honourable in

5:47

a nation with civil war, all that was

5:50

mean, and base. And I

5:52

think there is a sense that it did poison what

5:55

had been this huge national movement in

5:57

pursuit of independence.

5:59

theories, the question myself and Brian

6:02

essentially set out to explain is what

6:04

exactly happened in Ireland between 1922

6:07

and 1923 that could have such

6:09

an impact and this takes us back

6:12

to the summer

6:13

of 1921.

6:15

By that point the War of Independence had raged

6:17

in Ireland for two years, then

6:19

finally a truce between Crown

6:22

forces and the IRA was hammered out and came

6:24

into effect in July 1921, this

6:27

led to months of negotiations between

6:29

the Republican movement and the British government.

6:32

These concluded when a treaty was signed

6:34

by the negotiating teams in London on

6:37

December 6th 1921. The

6:39

key issue however was whether this document

6:42

would be accepted by the broader Republican movement

6:44

in Ireland and this was where the road

6:46

to civil war began. When

6:49

this document, the Anglo-Irish Treaty was

6:51

published it immediately led to major

6:53

disagreements in Ireland, specifically

6:56

within the Republican movement.

6:58

Brian explains why this document was

7:00

so controversial.

7:02

The biggest question really is sovereignty

7:04

and the symbolism of the oath

7:07

and the membership of the British

7:10

Empire. The treaty is going to

7:12

allow 26 countries,

7:14

well the whole of Ireland if not

7:16

in Ireland agreed to this which of course they wouldn't have

7:18

done but the idea is the treaty will cover

7:20

the entire island and all of the 32 counties

7:23

will become a free state, an Irish

7:25

free state within the

7:27

British imperial family. So

7:29

there would be

7:30

a parliament in Dublin, there would be a great

7:32

deal of autonomy, far more than home

7:34

rule. Crucially the British

7:37

military would leave most of

7:39

the territory and

7:42

you would have maybe scope for changes

7:44

in taxation and so on in the longer run

7:47

but you would have the degree of autonomy that Canada,

7:49

Australia, New Zealand and so on

7:51

had within the empire.

7:54

Now within that there's

7:57

a great deal of room for our argument that

7:59

this is a good deal.

7:59

or a bad deal, but crucially for Republicans

8:02

this obviously was not an independent republic. And

8:04

they could point to the fact that within

8:07

the Dominions there was still an

8:09

oath to the British

8:11

king and that also then,

8:13

and this is pointed out, that there would still

8:15

be British naval bases, that there would still be clauses

8:18

within the treaty that allowed Britain to use

8:20

Ireland at the time of war, and there would have been an expectation

8:23

that the free state would have sided with Britain anyway.

8:26

But overall it's this idea which again a

8:29

century on people find it strange that maybe

8:31

that the oath is so important, but the British regard

8:34

the oath as very important. I mean these are

8:38

parts of the treaty that the British system, they

8:40

are very clear that Ireland is not leaving

8:42

the British family of nations. They're making

8:45

concessions, but these are concessions to keep

8:47

Ireland within what they now

8:49

call a commonwealth and it's the first time that

8:51

term is used. So Irish Republicans

8:54

point out this is not an independent republic, it's not

8:56

sovereignty, it's not the independence we fought

8:58

for. Harry Boland makes the point that

9:00

this would be an acceptance

9:03

by Irish Republicans that Ireland was part

9:06

of the British family of nations and he said this is

9:08

something that no Irish nationalist has ever

9:10

accepted. Even the Home Rule

9:12

Movement would have always said Ireland

9:14

was conquered, it was taken against its will

9:16

historically, but

9:18

we're voluntarily joining that family

9:20

of nations now by accepting the treaty. So

9:23

a lot of these arguments can

9:25

be boiled down to the issue of republic independence

9:28

versus membership of the commonwealth

9:31

and it very much coalesces around this idea

9:34

of an oath. Now within that there

9:36

are arguments made about

9:38

the the north will obviously exclude itself

9:40

from this, so part of the island will be lost,

9:43

the British will maintain bases, you

9:45

know people make the argument as well that you know

9:48

what's all right for the Australians and New Zealanders

9:50

and Canadians is not all right for Ireland. Ireland

9:53

has a completely different history to Britain, we are not

9:55

again part of the

9:57

Anglo-Saxon story and so on.

9:59

So all these arguments are made and

10:02

probably the most obvious one is

10:04

that this is a betrayal of what we've been fighting

10:06

for. It is not what

10:08

we took up arms for in 1916. And

10:12

that goes back and forth

10:14

outside of the TDs

10:17

who are debating this.

10:18

Obviously, that argument is being played out within Sinn

10:21

Féin, within Cumannamáin and within the

10:23

IRA crucially as well.

10:25

The reasons why people took the stances

10:27

they did ranged from place to place

10:29

and person to person.

10:31

As Brian now explains, the majority

10:34

of IRA volunteers were opposed

10:36

to the terms of the treaty.

10:38

But the situation was not as clear-cut within

10:41

Sinn Féin and the broader Republican movement.

10:43

I think there's a whole myriad of factors

10:46

in why people make the decisions they do. And

10:48

there's a core of people

10:49

whose views can be summed up in the kind

10:52

of phrase, if it's good enough for Mick Collins, it's good

10:54

enough for me. Collins and

10:56

others like Richard Mulcahy and Owen

10:58

Oduffy and Sean McKeown and so on, very active

11:01

IRA leaders who support the treaty, do

11:03

bring a certain amount of people with them. And

11:06

their presence on the pro-treaty side is then used

11:08

to argue that these men couldn't be in favor

11:10

of something less. This is a

11:13

good deal because these men want it.

11:15

But at a local level, the IRA was very

11:18

unprepared for compromise. And

11:19

there hadn't really been an effort to

11:23

kind of

11:24

tell them that there might be a compromise. The

11:26

British had been clear from the start that all these

11:29

negotiations were about the

11:31

maintenance of Ireland within the

11:33

Empire. So that wasn't a secret. But

11:35

nevertheless, at a local level, the IRA

11:38

really seems to have seen the truce period as

11:40

a breathe in space and as

11:43

effectively a time to reorganize, recruit,

11:46

train,

11:47

rearm and prepare for

11:49

the next round of conflict. So

11:52

there's no, you know, for 75 percent,

11:55

maybe in theory of the IRA,

11:58

there's nothing less than a republic will do. But

12:00

that's very often again a decision

12:02

made by local officers and the men more

12:04

or less follow them. Now when I say 75% it

12:07

is in no way as clear as that at local

12:09

level because the divisions break

12:11

down

12:12

in a majority

12:14

against the treaty, but in every area

12:16

you'd have pro and anti-treaty sites. So in Tipper

12:18

area the majority might be anti-treaty but there's

12:21

still pro-treaty IRA

12:23

people. Whereas in Donegal the majority might be

12:25

pro-treaty but you will still have anti-treaty

12:28

IRA men there too. So within the IRA

12:30

you'll always find that there's people from every part of

12:32

the country taking opposing views. And again

12:34

within the six counties it's quite a complex

12:36

situation because a lot of the IRA there which

12:39

many people find surprising end up

12:41

either neutral or supporting

12:43

the treaty and a substantial number

12:45

of them actually end up fighting for it. But

12:49

the IRA as an organisation

12:51

overwhelmingly does say no to the treaty.

12:54

Within Common Amman again very quickly

12:56

a majority are against them. There's a pro-treaty

12:59

women's organisation founded as a result.

13:02

Within Sinn Féin, within the elite,

13:04

the TDs and so on it's a much closer

13:06

fight. Obviously the treaty is

13:08

accepted by five votes in the end there.

13:11

And that probably reflects again among the more civilian

13:14

political organisation a much greater willingness

13:16

to accept what's seen as a

13:18

decent compromise.

13:20

This issue of how the wider population reacted

13:23

is a complex and important part of the story

13:25

that I'll return to later in the episode. But

13:28

in terms of the actual outbreak of the Irish

13:30

Civil War it was tensions within the

13:33

republican movement that were key. And

13:35

these had been rising since the earliest days

13:37

of 1922. The treaty, controversial

13:40

as it was, had been ratified by the Doyle

13:43

on January 7th 1922. But

13:45

the debates had been bitter and personalised.

13:49

While advocates of the treaty led by Michael Collins

13:51

and Arthur Griffith set about establishing

13:53

a provisional government of the Irish Free State

13:55

until elections could be held the following

13:58

June, opponents of the treaty

13:59

led by Eamon de Valera, who had

14:02

resigned his position as President of Sinn

14:04

Féin, walked out in protest.

14:06

While

14:06

politicians were clearly now

14:09

bitterly divided, more important and

14:11

substantial opposition to the treaty

14:13

emerged from within the ranks of the IRA.

14:17

When it met in convention in Dublin in March 1922,

14:19

it rejected the terms

14:21

of the treaty. Furthermore, the convention

14:24

repudiated the IRA's allegiance

14:26

to the Free State Government. It was unclear

14:29

as to what would happen now.

14:31

Meanwhile, Michael Collins and

14:33

the pro-treaty leaders who had established

14:35

the Free State Government had raised

14:38

what was called the National Army

14:40

and military they could control and rely

14:43

on. By the end of March 1922,

14:46

Ireland effectively had two rival armies,

14:49

the National Army loyal to the government

14:51

of the Free State and the IRA.

14:54

Indeed, this would soon be obvious on the

14:56

streets of Dublin, when an armed IRA garrison

14:59

occupied the forecourt, a major

15:01

complex in the city centre, in what was

15:03

a challenge to the authority of the new

15:05

Free State leaders. While these tensions

15:07

would ultimately lead to the outbreak

15:10

of war, I want to pull back now

15:12

though and look at how the wider Irish

15:14

population was viewing these developments.

15:17

Irish society in 1922 was more complex than is often

15:21

portrayed and it can be surprising how

15:23

many Irish people in those months had

15:26

more pressing concerns than the treaty.

15:29

One of the features of the civil war

15:31

is that you imagine a society torn

15:34

in two with almost everybody

15:36

taking one side or the other and of course it's

15:38

a little bit more complicated than that

15:41

because the kind of overwhelming public

15:44

perception or view in the aftermath

15:46

of the signing of the treaty is that this is a good

15:48

thing and that it should be supported. So

15:51

the Catholic Church very quickly,

15:53

dozens of sermons

15:56

by priests and statements from bishops,

15:58

endorses the treaty. the kind

16:01

of chambers of commerce and the business organizations

16:04

and so on endorse the treaty. The

16:06

farmers organizations more

16:08

or less unanimously endorse the treaty.

16:11

And every newspaper

16:13

bar one, every local newspaper

16:15

and every national newspaper essentially

16:18

agrees that the treaty is either

16:20

a good deal or the best deal possible

16:23

or the best deal under the circumstances.

16:26

So the public perception, the kind

16:28

of public course would be that this is overwhelmingly

16:31

supported. And even though I mean there is

16:33

evidence later on when you do have an election

16:36

in June 22, the pro-treaty side win a

16:38

majority. But well

16:40

before the election it's stated

16:43

as fact that the majority support

16:45

the treaty even when there's no way of really measuring

16:48

that. Now I think at ground level

16:50

in

16:51

the picture is a bit more complex and

16:54

as was what had been happening that's very important is

16:56

that there had been a truce since July 1921. And

16:59

during that period then people had got

17:01

used to the idea that peace was here to stay and

17:04

therefore

17:05

the treaty is seen as perhaps,

17:09

you know, more or less ensuring that that

17:12

peace remains and therefore there's a kind of

17:14

a tacit acceptance of it. But

17:17

again at micro level I think there were

17:19

all kinds of opinions and then there's probably

17:22

a section of opinion that aren't that

17:24

concerned about it that aren't followed on it minutely.

17:27

But certainly the pillars

17:30

of society or what's later called the stake

17:32

in the country people certainly make it clear very quickly

17:34

that the treaty is a good deal.

17:36

One of the largest movements on the island

17:39

was that of organised labour. The

17:41

membership of Irish trade unions was in the

17:43

hundreds of thousands and they had played

17:45

an important role in the War of Independence.

17:49

Brian explains how they viewed the

17:51

growing tensions in Ireland. Firstly,

17:54

as you said, the labour movement is a very substantial

17:57

part of society and nearly a quarter

17:59

of the world.

17:59

million people are members of trade unions

18:02

and they've got a very vocal

18:04

kind of outlet in the Voice of Labour newspaper

18:06

and what that tends to say is that whatever

18:10

the Republicans decide,

18:12

it isn't going to be the Republic that we've desired.

18:15

So the Labour movement

18:17

has to be prepared to stand its own

18:20

candidates and act independently and

18:22

they base this on the fact that since the truce

18:25

period the Republican

18:28

movement had been taken a less

18:30

benign view of Labour activity.

18:32

So by December 1921 the IRA is

18:35

being used to break strikes and sometimes that's very

18:38

controversial and that's both wings

18:40

of what becomes the pro and anti-freaty side.

18:42

They're both involved in this in the Department

18:44

of Labour. The Ministry of Labour

18:47

is arguing for order

18:49

for an end to industrial strife and so on.

18:51

So there's a bit of a, the

18:53

Labour movement and the Republican movement are

18:55

increasingly at loggerheads. So I

18:57

suppose one way of expressing this is to say we're

19:00

taking an independent stance, we're not involved

19:02

directly in these talks anyway but we will

19:04

take part in an election if it happens. Now

19:08

there is an avoidance of saying then whether

19:10

they are actually pro or anti-treaty. They're implicitly

19:12

pro-treaty by very fact that they're going

19:15

to accept whatever

19:16

political arrangement comes out and

19:18

their way of around that to get around that

19:20

is to say but of course we're still going to fight for Labour's

19:22

interests. They do try to get involved

19:24

in peace talks during the spring of 1922 to

19:27

try and act as a go between the

19:30

new provisional government and the

19:32

anti-treaty side and also then there's a very

19:34

large general strike held in April 1922 which

19:38

expresses a very strong sense

19:41

that lots of workers don't want there to

19:43

be a

19:44

military conflict and I suppose again you know

19:47

some sections of the Labour movement particularly

19:49

the unskilled and so-called unskilled

19:51

workers and so on and Dublin elsewhere wouldn't

19:54

have been usually represented in the Republican movement

19:56

and maybe they feel you know slightly distant

19:58

from it and again it tends to be this

20:00

strike tends to be dismissed as a pro-treaty

20:02

strike. Well, if it was a pro-treaty strike, then the

20:05

pro-treaty side were able to mobilize the hell out of a lot of

20:07

workers, because it is a very, very big strike.

20:09

So I think it has to be seen as evidence

20:12

that labor is both a force, but also that it's not

20:14

directly involved in the pro-antitreaty

20:17

argument, but implicitly they're going

20:19

to accept whatever political arrangement. And it really

20:21

kind of reflects that right throughout the War of Independence

20:24

period, the leadership of the labor movement

20:26

always kind of hedged

20:27

their bets and stayed on

20:29

the side of

20:30

Sinn Féin and the Republicans, and are now staying

20:33

more or less on the side of the pro-treaty

20:35

leadership, but with

20:38

the proviso that they don't want

20:40

military conflict.

20:41

There was also opposition to the treaty on

20:44

the far left of Irish politics, as

20:46

Brian now explained. On the far

20:48

left, there's a more explicit critique of the

20:50

treaty as a capitalist deal,

20:52

as an imperialist deal, as essentially

20:55

a section of the Republican movement

20:57

making their peace with imperialism. And

21:00

that's the view put forward by the Communist Party

21:03

and by a few others, people like Roddy Congley

21:05

and so on.

21:06

And again, their analysis

21:09

is very interesting because it certainly

21:11

influenced by the common term. But

21:13

what they're saying is that, yes, this is an imperialist

21:15

deal, it has to be opposed. They

21:19

ultimately believe the IRA should

21:21

fight against the treaty. But at the same

21:23

time, they are honest enough to

21:25

acknowledge that actually, and I think in one of the

21:28

issues of their newspaper, which is called the Workers

21:30

Republic, they say that the great mass

21:32

of ordinary Irish people, including many of

21:34

the workers and landless peasants, are

21:37

ambivalent about this whole question, that actually they're

21:39

not really, it isn't the

21:42

biggest issue for them. And I suppose that's reflected

21:44

in the elections in June 22, when Labour

21:46

does very well. And in a lot

21:48

of places that had seen fairly intense class

21:51

conflict, you've got a lot of union organizers

21:54

who are Labour candidates elected. And that would

21:56

reflect, I suppose,

21:58

workers wanting something different.

21:59

rather than simply the pro or anti-treaty

22:02

side. So

22:03

even though those on the left who are

22:06

very anti-treaty kind of do realise

22:08

that actually they've got to

22:10

kind of convince people

22:12

why they should be anti-treaty. It's not taken

22:14

as a given even by many

22:16

workers. So far, we have

22:18

been discussing events taking place in the Irish

22:20

Free State, which did not include

22:22

obviously the six Northeastern counties

22:24

of Ireland, which compromised Northern

22:27

Ireland.

22:28

Now, Brian explains how the build

22:30

up to the Irish Civil War impacted

22:33

and played out in these six counties.

22:35

Given the recent conflict in the North, people

22:38

often assume that partition and

22:40

the status of Northern Ireland was a key issue. However,

22:42

reactions there in 1922, as

22:45

Brian now will explain, surprises many

22:47

today. The

22:48

political point about the treaty and what it says

22:50

about partition and also then,

22:52

the facts on the ground, there'd been no

22:54

truce in Northern Ireland. Belfast

22:56

had

22:57

seen even more intense violence during

22:59

the truce period. So the IRA had had

23:01

no breathing space and they'd been fighting all the

23:03

time. And there's very vicious conflict

23:05

along the new border as well into 1922.

23:09

And a lot of the units involved in that fighting

23:11

in Monaghan and in Donegal and so on

23:14

were

23:15

pro-treaty in their majority, led by people

23:17

like Ona Duffy and Joe Sweeney. In

23:19

Belfast is a great, again, among

23:22

the IRA leadership, they're very close

23:24

to people like Mulcahy, particularly again

23:26

to Collins and Odufi. Odufi goes to Belfast

23:29

as a truce liaison officer. So

23:31

a lot of the people they know are pro-treaty. And

23:33

the pro-treaty, I mean, there's a lot

23:35

of smoke and mirrors here because you're

23:37

dealing with the IRB as

23:39

well and other secretive organizations. But Collins

23:42

and Odufi in other words, and others tend to give

23:44

the Northern IRA the impression that

23:47

whatever happens with the treaty, they're not going to be

23:49

abandoned. And during the spring of 1922, there

23:52

is ultimately an abort of offensive

23:54

against the Northern Ireland State in which the pro-

23:56

and anti-treaty side cooperate and in which

23:59

weapons are supported.

23:59

applied

24:01

by Collins and others to the Northern IRA. So

24:03

there would be some personal loyalty

24:06

towards Collins, possibly also

24:08

harder to evaluate, but

24:11

a feeling that maybe some of the anti-treaty I'ds are a bit

24:13

abstract in the way they talk about the crown

24:15

and the oath and dominion status, where

24:18

this is clearly a question of partition and

24:20

the pro-treaty I'd seem to have at least

24:22

a more clear idea that yes, we're against

24:24

that. And in the treaty, there's going to be

24:26

a boundary commission established which will look at

24:29

the parameters of Northern Ireland and

24:31

people in Fermana and Tyrone and Derry City

24:33

and South Dermot kind of expect

24:35

the boundary commission will say, you logically

24:37

should be part of this new Irish

24:39

Free State. So people do kind of

24:41

think that partition mightn't last that

24:44

long. So it's not clearly for

24:46

them a war over partition. And

24:48

that's why a lot of people drop out disillusioned

24:51

and some are neutral, but also then

24:53

you've got a significant number who do end up in

24:55

free state uniform. And that is very

24:57

confusing at the time. And it does cause,

25:00

you know, some of the anti-treaty

25:01

I'ds are particularly bitter about it. And

25:03

they do kind of resent the Nordners to

25:05

some extent for a couple of decades afterwards.

25:08

Despite efforts to diffuse the situation,

25:11

tensions continue to rise between

25:13

the Free State National Army and the IRA

25:15

through the spring and early summer of 1922. A

25:18

gun battle broke out in Kilkenny in early May

25:21

when IRA volunteers opposed to

25:23

the treaty occupied Kilkenny Castle. Meanwhile,

25:26

in Dublin, a large Republican garrison

25:29

took over the four course complex on

25:31

the keys in the city. It's

25:33

worth stating at this point, opponents

25:36

to the treaty were by no means unified

25:38

in their assessment of how to proceed.

25:40

Even within the IRA, there were considerable

25:43

disagreements

25:44

about strategy with many arguing

25:46

a civil war should be avoided at all

25:48

costs. It was still hoped

25:50

that some form of compromise could be reached.

25:53

Ultimately, there was never a public referendum

25:56

to measure public mood on the treaty.

25:58

But the first general...

25:59

election of the Irish Free State took place

26:02

on June 4th, 1922.

26:04

This did offer the public a chance to vote

26:06

for candidates who reflected their

26:08

views on the Anglo-Irish Treaty. But

26:11

the outcome of this election was not as decisive

26:13

as you might expect. Brighton now explains

26:16

how there were several factors at play when

26:18

people went to the polls in Ireland in June

26:22

It's a complicated election because Republicans

26:25

firstly would have argued that the entire debate

26:27

has taken place under the threat

26:30

of a return to war with Britain if

26:32

the anti-treaty side wins. So therefore,

26:35

Liam Mello's argued it's

26:38

during the treaty debates, it's not the will

26:40

of the people, it's the fear of the people. Secondly,

26:43

the Republican movement of Sinn Féin had

26:46

tried to present a united face.

26:49

Essentially Collins and de Valera had

26:52

agreed that the same candidates

26:54

would be returned, that Sinn

26:56

Féin candidates would go forward no matter what their

26:59

views on the treaty were. And they'd

27:01

all come back essentially. And that

27:03

was a way of maintaining

27:05

the unity of the movement. Now,

27:07

there are critics of that who say, well, you weren't given the

27:09

electorate any

27:10

choice in the matter than if you're just telling them to elect the

27:12

same people. So in this election, they do

27:14

have alternatives. They have Labour. They have

27:16

the farmers, a good few of whom are ex-unionists,

27:19

obviously represent larger farming constituency.

27:21

You've got a whole host of independents too,

27:24

many of them ex-home rulers.

27:27

And all of them do pretty well given

27:29

the circumstances of the elections. Another complicating

27:31

factor is, yes, all men over 21

27:34

have the vote, but it's an old register.

27:37

It's a 1918 register. So there would have been

27:39

people, men who'd come of age

27:41

since then who can't vote. And it's

27:43

still

27:44

women over the age of 30. The

27:46

age hadn't been lowered yet. And that's a

27:48

bone of contention as well, because some of the anti-treaty,

27:51

I'd argue that the pro-treaty

27:53

side doesn't want younger men and younger

27:55

women to vote because they might be more liable

27:57

to vote against the treaty. On

28:00

the eve of the election, Michael Collins repudiates

28:02

the deal and says, vote for candidates

28:04

who reflect your view on the treaty, essentially.

28:07

And as a result, the pro-treaty,

28:10

I do win a majority. They

28:12

certainly out pull the anti-treaty

28:15

side, a number of whom, including fairly prominent

28:17

people, lose their seats. But

28:20

the Labour gets over 20% of the vote. It

28:22

gets a slightly higher vote in

28:25

numerical terms than the anti-treaty side does.

28:27

You also have a substantial vote for farmers,

28:29

substantial vote for independents. Now, taken altogether,

28:32

Labour, farmers, independents, and pro-treaty

28:34

Sinn Fein, who are all

28:37

open to sitting in

28:38

the new parliament. That means there's a very

28:41

large majority for the treaty. But there's a substantial

28:43

minority of over 20% of the electorate anyway

28:45

against it. The election isn't as

28:48

clear a democratic signifier

28:50

as it might be if it took

28:53

place with a full register and under

28:55

different circumstances. A further point that

28:57

complicates matters was the comparatively high

28:59

numbers of people who didn't vote.

29:01

Given this was the first chance people had

29:03

to voice their views on the treaty, you might expect

29:06

a huge turnout. But as Brian explains,

29:08

there was a considerable minority who didn't

29:11

for various reasons.

29:12

In the June 22 election, there

29:15

is a significant, you know, abstention

29:17

rate for people who don't vote at all. Again, I suppose if

29:19

we imagine this is the biggest issue of the

29:21

day and that this is the issue that could

29:24

send society to civil war, you

29:26

still get maybe 30% of the electorate as

29:28

it stood who didn't bother to vote. So, I mean,

29:31

I think it might have seemed abstract

29:33

to some of the poorest people. Then you would also

29:35

have a section of Irish unionists who

29:39

probably are so disgusted by the whole idea

29:42

of leaving the United Kingdom that they're not

29:44

going to

29:44

take a very strong stand

29:46

in an electoral contest, certainly, and maybe,

29:49

and you also have maybe former

29:51

home rulers and so on who are, you know, alienated

29:53

by the whole thing. Although there's reasons for all

29:55

those people to support the treaty and ultimately,

29:58

I think most of those type of people do.

29:59

even if only reluctantly.

30:02

But yeah, I mean I think again the evidence

30:04

of the Labour vote

30:06

would suggest that a section of people

30:08

who don't feel the treaty is really the most important

30:10

issue might be attracted to their

30:13

standard again. Independents also do

30:15

well and some of them are former Home Rulers,

30:17

people like Alfie Byrne. Alfie Byrne gets a huge

30:19

vote in what's now Dublin Central.

30:22

He comes second and Lawrence O'Neill, who'd

30:24

been a former Home Ruler as well, I

30:26

think gets tops the poll and then

30:28

the two Sinn Féin candidates from pro and anti-treaty

30:30

side come in third and fourth. So you know

30:32

in a central Dublin constituency you

30:34

actually have

30:36

a much bigger vote for independence than you have

30:38

for Republicans. I suppose that again reflects

30:40

the diversity and also the fact that

30:42

once the truce was declared in July 1921

30:45

that kind of unity that you'd seen around this issue,

30:47

the movement does begin to fracture

30:50

even before there's any kind of formal

30:52

treaty. Ultimately the results

30:54

of that election did not diffuse the rapidly

30:57

rising tensions in Irish society. A

30:59

few weeks after the poll the government of

31:01

the Free State would take a fateful

31:04

step and attack the IRA garrison which

31:06

had been occupying the four courts in Dublin

31:08

since the previous April.

31:10

This would be the first chapter in

31:13

the Irish Civil War and that story

31:15

is covered in part two of this series.

31:18

Get part two and the rest of the Irish

31:20

Civil War series today by becoming

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31:25

You can do that really easily at patreon.com

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31:31

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31:33

slash Irish podcast. Until

31:35

next time, slán.