0:01

Cool Zone Media.

0:08

Hello everybody, and welcome to it could

0:10

happen here. This is Scharene and

0:13

I am so excited to be

0:15

joined by author and journalist

0:17

Sim Kern. Their latest

0:19

novel, The Free People's Village, is available

0:21

now, so go to your local bookstore and order

0:23

it and support a voice that I believe

0:26

we all need in our zeitgeist

0:28

right now. So welcome

0:30

Sim. Thank you so much for being.

0:31

Here, Thanks for having me.

0:33

For those of you who don't know, Sim has been

0:35

making videos recently about the genocide and

0:37

Gaza from a queer Jewish anti

0:39

Zionist perspective, and this is one

0:42

that I think a lot of people need to be exposed

0:44

to and to listen to. I mentioned

0:46

this to you before the recording, but a Jewish friend of mine

0:48

told me how much she connected with your

0:50

voice and how much she's learned from

0:52

you, and how your videos have

0:55

been helping her approach really awkward

0:57

and difficult conversations with her peers. So I

0:59

appreciate very much, Happy

1:01

to do whatever I can when you decided

1:03

to start making like the first video that got a lot of attention,

1:06

Like, were you seeing something that you wanted to like? Make

1:08

sure you correct in the zeitgeist, like what was your perspective

1:10

as a Jewish person.

1:12

Well, this is the first video that I made, was

1:14

encouraging people to read books by

1:16

Palestinian authors, just

1:19

to learn about the Palestinian

1:21

perspective which is so often censored

1:24

and not really allowed in our media,

1:27

and also which you really have to go seek out

1:29

in publishing. And this isn't

1:32

the first time I've done this, since I

1:34

think twenty seventeen

1:37

or something was the first time I created Read

1:39

for Palestine challenge on YouTube.

1:42

And just creating this Read for Palestine

1:45

Challenge was enough to get me put on the

1:47

Canary Mission website and like

1:50

outed as a anti

1:52

semi by this very Zionist website

1:55

that of course is a blocklist of

1:57

mostly students who organize

2:00

with like Students for Justice in Palestine and

2:02

really anyone who speaks out publicly against

2:06

Israeli apartheid. So

2:09

simply like encouraging people to read these books,

2:11

I think is really powerful and I know for

2:13

me, growing up Jewish

2:15

in the United States, I was just inundated

2:18

with a lot of Zionist

2:21

propaganda from my more conservative family.

2:23

My more liberal family would take the line

2:26

of like it's just very complicated.

2:28

Both sides hate each other. Who

2:31

can say who's right? And

2:33

it was only by reading Palestinian voices

2:35

that I really developed an anti Zionist

2:38

perspective.

2:39

That's awesome that you did the read for Palestine

2:42

challenge, but also like not surprising about the Canary

2:44

mission thing, unfortunately, but

2:46

I'm glad that that didn't stop you or discourage you

2:49

when you start to learn more about Palestine.

2:51

How did you approach conversations with your friends

2:54

and family?

2:55

Again, Like I guess initially

2:58

it's different talking to and family than it

3:01

is talking to the internet. Honestly, it's much easier,

3:03

I think sometimes to connect with the internet because it

3:05

is not that like personal connection.

3:08

I think I've made more headway and

3:11

had a much greater impact online

3:13

than I have with certain

3:15

friends and family members. But

3:18

you know, I do think that everyone having those conversations

3:20

putting your beliefs out there,

3:23

whether it's one on one in face to face conversations

3:26

or whether it is doing it online, where

3:28

like certainly your friends and family are going to see

3:31

the things that you're posting and

3:33

the things that you care about.

3:35

It has a great impact.

3:37

And like I've definitely noticed friends

3:39

of mine over time who maybe a

3:42

few intense bombing campaigns

3:44

ago, were very checked out on this

3:47

issue are now very active

3:50

and are and are speaking out themselves. And

3:53

so that's I guess that would be my message to

3:55

other like anti Zionist Jews

3:57

is even if the first time you're

4:00

putting stuff out there about Palestine it feels like no one's

4:02

listening. It feels like, you know, you're not making a difference

4:05

over time, you're planting the

4:07

seeds of like questioning the

4:10

Western media's you know,

4:13

pro Israeli perspective over time.

4:16

Yeah, it's a really really good point. But

4:18

my friend also mentioned she would never have

4:20

been exposed to your voice if I didn't share

4:22

it or if people were not sharing it. So I think

4:25

people really underestimate the value

4:27

of social media sometimes or speaking

4:30

up on social media. They're just like, oh, people

4:33

are already talking about it or whatever. But everyone

4:36

has a community they can reach that no one else can reach.

4:38

So I think that's important to remember.

4:41

You made some points in some videos that you

4:43

made that I would love for you to not like regurgitate,

4:46

but maybe just like cover for people that haven't watched

4:48

your videos or are just unaware in general.

4:51

I think a really important point you

4:53

made was how suffering

4:56

is not monopolized or exclusive

4:59

or any word or better than other

5:01

people suffering if regardless of what identity

5:03

they are. Can you get into that a little bit.

5:06

Yeah, So I made a video that was actually

5:08

responding to a comment by someone saying

5:11

like, how dare you compare the

5:13

suffering of Palestinians

5:15

to the suffering of Jews? How dare you

5:17

compare genocides? That that's disgusting

5:19

and that cheapens the Holocaust?

5:22

And that was again I think responding

5:25

to a video or I was saying, like, read about

5:27

other genocides besides the Holocaust,

5:29

because I think it again, as a

5:31

Jewish American, I grew

5:33

up steeped in Holocaust literature. I

5:36

read every book I could about it. You know, I think a lot of

5:38

Jewish kids, by the time were adolescents.

5:40

We have like this PhD level knowledge

5:42

of the Holocaust. I think

5:45

that our peers who are non Jewish

5:47

maybe don't have quite as much exposure

5:49

and understanding of the Holocaust. But that is often the

5:51

only genocide that is taught in US schools,

5:55

And so there's a

5:57

narrative that the suffering

5:59

of the US in the persecution of Jews is uniquely

6:02

specific, and that it was

6:04

all about the religion. It's something about

6:06

Judaism itself is why.

6:08

We've been persecuted.

6:10

Well, I as an author, I'm currently I'm writing

6:12

a book on Jews in the seventeenth

6:14

century, and I've just done a ton of research on

6:16

medieval and early modern Jewish

6:18

history. And of course there was

6:21

religious hate, but it was motivated

6:23

by and I contended in this video

6:25

that all genocides are motivated by land

6:28

and wealth and power, and

6:30

the hate is manufactured by

6:33

people in power to justify

6:37

taking people's land and wealth and to

6:39

solidify their own power as

6:41

rulers.

6:42

And the Christian Church use this.

6:44

Against Jews in the medieval

6:46

and early modern period and in our

6:48

times. It's there's no

6:51

one religion that has a monopoly

6:53

on'm committing genocide, you know, there's

6:56

no one.

6:56

State and because really it's states.

6:59

That are that are committing genocide

7:02

that you know, it is not directed to one

7:04

people. So I've encouraged people to read books

7:06

about here in the United States, obviously

7:08

the genocide of the Native peoples,

7:12

the Congolese genocide. You know,

7:14

I just recommended a couple of different titles,

7:16

the Rwandan genocide for a more recent

7:19

example, and it

7:22

is I reject the framework that you can't make

7:24

comparisons between genocides. I think that keeps

7:26

us ignorant. I think that keeps us from being

7:28

in solidarity with one another and

7:31

understanding the mechanisms

7:34

of power and control and

7:36

wealth accumulation that underlie

7:38

all of these genocides. And I do believe what is

7:40

happening in Palestine right now is a

7:43

genocide being committed by

7:45

the Israeli state.

7:47

Yeah, and also really good

7:49

point about justifying it by

7:52

creating all of people in Palestine as barbarians

7:55

or terrorists or this just this rhetoric that becomes

7:57

really dangerous and harmful. As

8:00

we've seen, people can

8:02

die. A sixty year old can die from this rhetoric.

8:05

Right man, Yahoo just said this

8:07

is a struggle between children of light and

8:09

children of darkness.

8:10

Like that cannot rhetoric.

8:13

I cannot believe that tweet. And

8:15

I mean he deleted it, but I mean the Internet is forever.

8:18

I just can't believe that was that

8:21

is so normal for him to tweet,

8:23

just confidently at one

8:25

point, just to say that out Loud. I think that's absurd,

8:28

and also just like to see how Yoev Galant

8:30

has been saying like human animals or

8:33

referring to Palestinians in such a dehumanizing

8:36

way. You mentioned

8:38

something really important that I think I

8:40

appreciated about how maintaining

8:43

the dehumanization of the Palestinians is

8:45

vital to maintain the white supremacist,

8:48

imperialistic thing that is Israel.

8:51

Can you get into that a little bit?

8:53

Yeah, well, I think that was me

8:55

trying. That came out of me trying to understand

8:57

why there was such backlash when I, when

9:00

I first years ago started recommending people

9:03

read Palestinian books. Is because when

9:05

you read a book by a Palestinian author, it is

9:07

going to humanize the Palestinian

9:09

people for you, and

9:12

that is incredibly threatening. And

9:14

Palestinian authors face a ton of

9:17

discrimination within publishing.

9:18

I mean, look at.

9:20

What was it Earlier this week the

9:23

Frankfurt Book Festival polled

9:27

or canceled a ceremony for a

9:29

Palestinian author, Adania Shibley,

9:32

and then has made more time for

9:35

Israeli voices and Israeli

9:37

specific panels at that book

9:39

festival, and

9:41

simply because she's a Palestinian.

9:44

She writes books dealing with real, factual

9:47

Palestinian history, and

9:50

her books are critical of Israel. But

9:52

the silencing of Palestinian

9:55

voices is a global project.

9:57

It is across all media industries.

10:00

You see it in you know, traditional book

10:02

publishing as well as journalism.

10:05

Another an author friend of mine, hannein Ricott,

10:08

has had the hardest time she's been

10:10

on sub with her book, and she's been told by

10:12

multiple editors to change the main character

10:15

from a Palestinian character

10:18

to just a generic Arabic

10:20

character because being Palestinian

10:24

is seen as inherently too controversial

10:26

to publish.

10:27

Yeah, I read that.

10:29

That's just I mean, again, not completely

10:32

surprised, but just so shameful that

10:34

that is something that is still happening in

10:36

these modern times.

10:39

I think another thing to remember is a

10:42

lot of people get confused between the differences between

10:44

being non white and white in the scope

10:46

of like this world. I guess it

10:48

just seems so obvious that colorism

10:50

and racism both exist in today's

10:53

world. And I really liked what you mentioned about the difference

10:55

between colorism and racism. Can

10:57

you talk about that for a little bit.

10:59

Yeah, Yeah, So I was explaining that in

11:01

the Western media, Israelis are treated

11:04

as white and Palestinians

11:06

are treated as non white, and

11:08

it really is regardless of the color of your skin.

11:10

So a lot of people giving me pushback

11:12

on that common say, oh, but there's black and brown and

11:14

white israelis yes,

11:17

And in the racist apartheid state

11:19

that is Israel, people

11:22

of different skin tones are treated very differently.

11:24

Within Israel, there was force sterilization

11:27

of African Jews immigrating

11:29

to Israel. Well, when it comes to

11:31

the Western media, our view

11:33

of the conflict is not as nuanced

11:35

as recognizing those

11:38

differences. And so I was

11:40

explaining that colorism is discrimination

11:42

based on the color of your skin. Racism is

11:45

a racial construct us about social,

11:47

economic, and legal discrimination. And

11:50

while colorism is often used to

11:52

determine racism,

11:55

that's not always one hundred percent the case.

11:57

And in the case of Israel, when you're

11:59

talking abo the Western media looking at Israel, they

12:01

report on Israelis as

12:04

people, as people who are to be mourned,

12:07

as people are whose

12:10

deaths are important, as

12:12

people whose lives are valuable, And

12:14

they report on people in Gaza

12:17

Palestinians, as

12:19

you know, human shields is

12:21

the most sympathetic way we hear.

12:23

Them talked about.

12:25

Their deaths are not deemed important. They

12:27

are not humanized within the media. If

12:29

they're killed, they're either combatants or

12:32

they were a human shield, they were someone being used

12:34

by combatants, and their deaths are you

12:36

know, maybe the lip

12:38

services paid to those debts being regrettable,

12:41

but they're seen as necessary

12:44

and not not unconscionable

12:46

in the way that deaths in Israel are reported

12:49

on.

12:49

Yeah, I think you bring a really good point

12:52

about the media and

12:54

how important semantics are. I

12:56

think something that we've been seeing time and time

12:58

again is how deep

13:01

the dehumanization goes. Like Israelis

13:03

have been killed versus Palestinians have died.

13:06

The Gaza strip is being referred to. I've seen

13:08

it as an enclave. Oh my god,

13:11

you know, an enclave where terrorists

13:14

lurk.

13:14

So yeah, the words used to describe

13:17

the city of Gaza, the words used to

13:19

describe people as

13:21

combatants, the words like,

13:24

you know, Palestinians die

13:26

in a clash when that clash

13:29

was racist Jewish

13:31

settlers with machine guns coming

13:33

after them, you know. So yeah,

13:37

yeah, Patay does a lot of work.

13:40

It does, it does. I mean We've seen it just recently

13:42

with the hospital bombing. How

13:44

the New York Times changed their headline like

13:46

three times from strike

13:49

and then to blast. I

13:52

believe was what they landed on blast, which

13:55

I just find honestly comical

13:57

when I really think about it too hard.

13:59

Yeah, Elizabeth War came out and condemned

14:01

clasts.

14:03

Like that is just so just

14:05

the passive voice is so dangerous because

14:07

it it really off usecates

14:10

the truth, which is that

14:12

Palestine people are dying of genocide.

14:14

Even calling it a war or a

14:16

conflict does not do what's happening

14:19

justice because it still implies there

14:21

are two equal sides that are fighting

14:23

against each other versus an occupier

14:26

and oppressor versus the occupied the

14:28

oppressed. So I think semantics

14:30

are so important for us to keep in mind even when we're

14:32

talking about it with our peers, to

14:35

make sure that we talk about in the correct way,

14:37

because I feel like it unconsciously

14:40

becomes ingrained in us, even if

14:42

we don't realize it when we keep talking about certain

14:44

things the

14:47

way the media wants us to talk about them as a

14:49

conflict or as a clash or whatever

14:51

it is.

14:52

And something else that I've really tuned

14:55

into is really being careful not

14:57

to pit this as a struggle between muscles

15:00

and Jews. Any framing like that is

15:03

both Islamophobic and anti Semitic

15:05

and incredibly inaccurate. This

15:07

is about an ethno state, a

15:09

nation state and apartheid state, which

15:11

is Israel targeting it

15:14

is captive population, and

15:18

it is and there are Palestinians who

15:20

are of all different faiths who

15:22

are discriminated against because

15:24

they are Palestinians within occupied

15:27

Palestine. So like,

15:30

for example, it just came to my attention

15:33

that there are some in the I'm a book

15:35

talker, my book

15:37

talk channels in books to gram is

15:40

mostly what I do is just, you know, share

15:42

about books for folks to read, and share.

15:44

About the books I'm working on.

15:47

And some of my fellow book

15:49

talkers have been recommending people

15:51

read books by both Palestinian

15:54

and Jewish authors so

15:57

they can show both sides. A

15:59

Palestinian author, Hannahmushabak, just wrote a great

16:01

letter to sort of call in our community and explain

16:04

this is a this is very anti semitic

16:07

to conflate Judaism with

16:10

Israel.

16:11

The policies of Israel.

16:12

You know, yesterday we saw five hundred Jewish

16:15

activists get arrested in the Capitol

16:17

building here in DC in

16:19

protests and demanding an immediate ceasefire

16:21

in Gaza. So there are many, many anti Zionist

16:24

Jews. Judaism and Zionism

16:27

are not the same thing, but conflating

16:29

them gives Israel more power

16:32

and gives it a

16:34

stronger moral foothold to say,

16:36

oh, we're representing all Jews, not just

16:38

this state. So

16:41

that's something also to be really careful

16:43

about, is to not pit

16:46

this as a Muslim versus

16:48

Jewish fight, because it's not.

16:51

It's about Israel, the state

16:53

versus Palestinian people.

16:56

Yeah, that's vital to remember.

16:59

Let's take our first break right here, and we will beat

17:01

right back and

17:13

we are back. You were just talking about

17:16

how this is just one percent

17:18

not a religious issue, and I think talking about

17:20

semantics again. I framing

17:23

it as a religious issue is another way for

17:25

people to stop talking about it, to be

17:27

too afraid to get

17:29

into this complicated, ancient battle

17:32

of all times, archaic thing that we can't

17:34

even get into because we can't understand

17:36

it. I think the Zionist narrative

17:38

wants us to believe it's about religion.

17:40

So people can ignore what's actually

17:42

going on and be too

17:44

scared to speak out. It's

17:46

like time and time again. Something that I want to

17:49

remind people is that it's not Muslim versus Jewish,

17:51

which is what it gets framed by most of the time.

17:54

But speaking of Zionism and

17:56

how it's not equated to the Jewish religion

17:58

at all. If anything, Zionism is anti

18:01

Semitic in and of itself.

18:03

I believe that wholeheartedly.

18:05

I believe Zionism makes all do so much

18:07

more unsafe.

18:08

Yeah, it's it's also rooted in

18:10

a lot of anti Semitism. Even the way it

18:13

was even the way the state of Israel was created

18:15

was Europeans being like, hey, Jews, can

18:17

you go here? It wasn't this gift

18:20

to the Jewish people. It was also about

18:22

to be in Africa, which I find fascinating. And

18:24

also I think people always forget the majority

18:26

of Zionists in the United States

18:28

are Evangelical Christians. That

18:30

is one percent accurate. That's why

18:32

they support Zionism, and it's because

18:35

they want all the Jews to go to Israel for

18:38

the rapture to happen. It is the most like

18:40

comic book idea I've ever heard,

18:43

and everyone just goes along with it. Yeah,

18:46

that brings me to another thing he brought up in your videos

18:48

about needing a homeland.

18:51

I think what you discussed

18:53

is really important because because

18:55

of this narrative that a lot of Zionists teach to

18:57

Jewish people about how they're constantly being perted,

19:00

I think people are led to believe that

19:03

Israel is their safe haven, Like

19:05

if all us fails, I have Israel

19:07

to go back to that as my home, even like American

19:10

Jews that have no connection to Israel. Really, why,

19:12

in your opinion, do the

19:15

Jewish people not necessarily need a

19:17

homeland? Right?

19:19

Well, I made that video speaking to like

19:22

other leftists. I was addressing other leftists.

19:25

So I think if you agree with me on the premise

19:27

that everyone should have

19:30

a safe place to live and

19:32

everyone should have equal rights, which

19:34

I think are two pretty pretty basic tenets

19:37

of being a leftist, then

19:40

you just can't have anybody

19:43

having a theocratic ethno state, which

19:45

is what Israel is de fact

19:47

I mean they say they're not, but that is how they

19:50

act.

19:50

And how that is how that country is run.

19:54

And so you know a

19:56

lot of people misinterpreted that videos, as

19:59

you know, try kind of try to argue with me, saying,

20:01

but there's other theocratic ethno states.

20:04

But I'm saying, yeah, if you're a leftist, you should think

20:06

that's bad everywhere, because a theocratic

20:08

ethno state is an inherently fascist

20:10

construct. It's inherently saying one

20:13

religion and or one ethnicity,

20:15

in the case of the way Israel

20:17

interprets Judaism, these

20:20

people are more valuable and

20:22

are more citizens here and have more

20:25

rights here than everybody else. And

20:28

that is just incompatible with

20:31

leftist values, I think. And so the

20:33

point of that video is nobody should have a

20:36

theocratic ethno state. And this is a line that

20:38

I've heard even some leftist

20:40

Jews saying, well, oh, we you know, this

20:43

is a complicated issue because Jews need a

20:45

homeland. Well, I'm sorry, our world

20:47

is just two heterogenous, too diverse.

20:51

You know, migrations have been going on

20:53

for tens of thousands of years all over the place.

20:55

There's no one plot of land on Earth

20:57

anymore that you can carve out and say, Okay,

21:00

just this one type of people

21:03

are going to get to live.

21:05

Here and be citizens here and have rights here.

21:08

Now I'm an anarchist personally,

21:10

so I when I say no theocratic

21:12

ethno states, I'm also like in a bigger

21:15

picture way saying like no states

21:17

would be the ideal for

21:19

me. But certainly

21:22

theocratic ethno states are

21:24

even worse within that framework compared

21:27

to like liberal democracies

21:30

or something. So yeah,

21:34

that was a video that was like intended

21:36

to be an in group conversation, and

21:40

then it got a million views

21:42

and got because my following

21:44

has like really exploded over the last week.

21:46

So I wasn't expecting it to go so far.

21:49

And so for people who idealize

21:53

ethno states, like Japan or

21:55

Sweden, they were really having

21:57

a hard time with me with me saying that, and

21:59

think it was really anti semitic for me to

22:01

say, Oh, I don't think Jews should have theocratic

22:04

ethno state, but no, I think nobody

22:06

should have a theocratic ethno

22:08

state.

22:09

That's a really good point to make. It's I

22:11

mean, it goes back to the idea of Jewish

22:14

suffering being more valuable

22:16

in some way than other suffering. I think it continues

22:19

this hierarchy of sorts

22:21

and everything you described about people

22:23

not being treated the same and not having enough

22:26

rights. That's all apartheid. I think people forget

22:28

like Israel is committing the definition

22:31

of apartheid and has been against the Palestinian

22:33

people, and I find it

22:35

weird that. I mean, Amy Schumer posted

22:39

this crazy video proving in her words

22:41

that it's not an apartheid state actually

22:43

and how people have all the rights in the world when

22:46

in reality it's shameful.

22:50

Yeah, it's like the UN, Amnesty, International,

22:52

Human Rights Watch are all saying this

22:54

is an apartheid state. But

22:57

okay, Amy Schumer, Yeah, it's

23:00

it's not actually that complicated.

23:02

It's really not. I've been really appreciating Amanda

23:04

Seals. She did like a reaction video

23:06

to what Amy Schumer posted and

23:09

laid out all the racist reasons

23:11

why actually apartheid is

23:14

what you would call that. I

23:26

think something that has bothered me within

23:29

the both sides thing

23:32

is this is not a term that I hear

23:34

often anymore. But like the progressive except

23:36

Palestine, I think that

23:39

idea has been really damaging

23:41

because it makes it seem like you can still

23:43

be so liberal and progressive

23:46

and still not really recognize that Palestinians

23:49

are being genocided for

23:51

almost a century.

23:53

Yeah, and this is just so frustrating

23:55

because again, what you're seeing in

23:57

Palestine, it's so stark, the violence

23:59

is so obvious, and

24:03

it's so egregious. And there's all these social

24:05

justice you know, organizations

24:07

and accounts that I followed.

24:09

There's like queer

24:11

Jewish.

24:11

Liberation accounts who have said nothing

24:14

about Palestine. There's

24:17

also non jew its, just queer you know,

24:19

all sorts of queer liberation queer

24:21

activists out there, which is like a

24:23

whole other network that I'm tapped in into,

24:26

and many of them are staying silent on

24:28

this genocide. And it's like we are

24:31

all fighting the same evils,

24:33

the same type of oppression, and if

24:35

you want people to stand with you when

24:38

your rights are being taken away, you got to stand

24:40

with everybody else.

24:41

That's the only way.

24:42

Intersectionality is the only way that we can overcome

24:45

these enormous forces of

24:47

oppression in the world. So, yeah,

24:49

it's it's been very frustrating to see

24:51

just how many you know, anti

24:54

racist organizations, queer

24:56

liberation organizations are

24:59

just staying completely silent on Palestine.

25:02

Yeah.

25:02

I have been really frustrated about that as well,

25:05

because it encourages this sort

25:07

of selective outrage that

25:09

is reserved for certain kind

25:11

of people that are deemed as human versus the people

25:14

that are not. I really believe

25:16

one of the most powerful voices in the fight

25:18

for Palatine liberation are Jewish anti

25:21

Zionists because they can

25:23

speak to what people

25:25

deem is the source of that problem from

25:28

a different place. But I

25:30

hope you realize

25:32

how important your voice is just in

25:35

general, especially now. And

25:37

yeah, I just really thank you for what you've been

25:39

doing, because it's kind of scary too. I'm sure

25:42

to suddenly have a big platform

25:44

and have all these people analyzing

25:46

everything you're saying and trying to find little

25:48

holes in your arguments.

25:51

But I appreciate that you're not backing down.

25:54

Yeah.

25:55

I went from six thousand to one hundred eighty

25:57

thousand followers on Instagram

26:00

in like a week.

26:01

I didn't realize that you started a six thousand. I

26:03

was wondering about that. That is a crazy jump.

26:05

Yeah, it happened really really fast.

26:07

And on TikTok too, I had I had fifty

26:10

thousand on TikTok just from my book

26:12

talk author talk account, which I've

26:14

been you know, growing over the course of two years,

26:17

and then it went.

26:17

Now it's like at one.

26:18

Hundred and fifty thousand, so like tripled on TikTok.

26:22

But yeah, it's definitely made me more

26:25

careful about what I say.

26:28

Like again, I had that one video that was sort of

26:30

like an in group comment to leftists

26:32

because I'm used to being on like the leftist

26:35

side of TikTok, and then realized, like, oh crap,

26:37

like everything I say is going to

26:39

go out to like absolutely every single kind

26:41

of audience, So I need to like really think about

26:44

the context of what I say and.

26:47

That it Yeah, it's a it's a lot.

26:50

It's a lot.

26:51

Yeah, I'm I mean, it sounds really overwhelming

26:53

and even navigating it well

26:56

and I don't know, I really appreciate

26:58

you. Before we wrap this up, I

27:00

would love for you to talk about your work

27:02

a little bit, maybe your book where people

27:04

can find it, where they can support you in

27:06

your work. The platform is all yours.

27:10

Yeah.

27:10

So I actually had a book come out about a month

27:12

ago called The Free People's Village, and

27:14

it is relevant to this topic. It's a

27:17

very leftist book. It's about a punk

27:19

band organizing to save their

27:21

warehouse from demolition to

27:23

make room for a new electromatic magnetic

27:26

hyperway in an alternate timeline

27:28

where al Gore won the two thousand election and

27:32

declared a war on climate change instead

27:34

of a war on terror. But it's a book

27:36

that's really critical of neoliberal politics.

27:39

So this solar punk utopia that's been

27:41

created this world has really only

27:43

impacted wealthy white neighborhoods while

27:45

leaving everybody else behind. So it's

27:47

a book about centering racial justice

27:50

within climate organizing. And

27:52

the final scene of the book actually takes place

27:54

at a Free Palestine protest,

27:57

and so that's definitely like a present

28:00

throughout the book, and based

28:02

on experiences I've had organizing with

28:05

the incredible Students

28:07

for Justice in Palestine and Palestini

28:09

youth movement organizers that we have here

28:12

in Houston.

28:13

So for people who.

28:14

Are listeners of this podcast,

28:16

I do think they would enjoy the Free People's

28:19

Village. And you can get

28:21

it. The best place to get it is always

28:23

your local indie bookstore. Of course,

28:26

you can also support your local indie bookstore

28:28

by shopping at bookshop dot org, which

28:31

allows you all the convenience of ordering online,

28:34

but you get to pick your favorite indie bookstore

28:36

to benefit. And then of course you

28:38

can get it also from all of the big corporate

28:42

retailers, and it's available

28:45

in hardcover and ebook and audiobook.

28:48

And you can find me online at sim Kern

28:51

on TikTok and if

28:54

you search simcar it's at sim Bookstagram's

28:56

badly on

28:58

Instagram, but if you just search sim Kernel, I'll

29:01

pop up on Instagram.

29:02

And that is s I N K

29:05

E r N.

29:06

For people that don't know, Yes,

29:09

just.

29:09

To leave us with something that we can take

29:11

away from this, do you have any advice for

29:14

people that are trying to open up these discussions

29:16

with their peers and how should they approach them?

29:19

And I don't know.

29:21

I think these conversations

29:24

are essential to humanizing

29:26

Palestinians. Again, so do you have any advice

29:28

before we sign off?

29:31

You know, same advice which was the first piece I

29:33

gave, which was just.

29:33

To read a lot and learn.

29:35

A lot and seek out those Palestinian voices.

29:37

Also Jewish Voice for Peace.

29:40

If you go to.

29:40

Their JVP dot org website, they have a ton

29:43

of like great tools and

29:45

kits for learning how to talk

29:47

about Palestine. And

29:49

so I would say, you know, always be learning

29:52

and reading if you feel

29:55

like you don't have the language yet to have these conversations.

29:57

Like you said, it's really.

29:59

Powerful to repost things

30:02

by commentators

30:04

that you respect, journalists on the

30:06

ground in Gaza right now who are doing amazing,

30:09

courageous work. Just letting people

30:11

know what is happening and putting something out

30:13

that disrupts an imperialist

30:16

narrative can be really really powerful.

30:19

Thank you for saying all of

30:21

that, because it's really needed. And

30:24

I will put in the description all the info

30:26

to where you can follow sim and their

30:28

work, and maybe I can put some recommendations

30:30

for Palestinian books as well. And

30:34

yeah, that's the episode.

30:36

Thank you so much for being here.

30:38

Thanks for having me Free Palestine.

30:45

It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

30:48

For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit

30:50

our website cool zonemedia dot com or

30:52

check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

30:54

or wherever you listen to podcasts. You

30:57

can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated

30:59

monthly, cool zone Meedia dot com,

31:01

slash sources. Thanks for listening