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match limited by state law. Hello

0:20

hello, I'm Britney Loose and you're listening

0:22

to it's been a minute from Npr,

0:24

a show about what's going on and

0:27

culture and why it doesn't happen. By

0:29

accident. Every

0:38

now and again and age old

0:40

debate surfaces with in the Black

0:42

community which city lays the greatest

0:45

claim to being epicenter of Black

0:47

cultural life. Some say it's Atlanta

0:49

with it's legacy of civil Rights

0:52

organizing. The leadership of Atlanta

0:54

as be commended for the great

0:56

strides that we made in this

0:58

community or. Some say it's

1:00

the jewel of my home state,

1:03

Detroit, the birthplace of Motown. And

1:10

of course there are many others.

1:12

D C Houston, Memphis list goes

1:15

on. but today's guest looks at

1:17

it a different way. Chicago and

1:19

is. Can't get left out where

1:21

the heart air right gets to

1:23

be a body part though. we're

1:26

Hi, we're in the height of

1:28

the country. that's our Aeon Nettles

1:30

journalist professor and author of the

1:32

new book We are the culture

1:34

Black Chicago's influence on everything Will

1:37

think about Chicago. We think about

1:39

music, art throughout history. So

1:41

many of these things started

1:43

in, grew right here in

1:45

Chicago and. Today on

1:47

the show, we're focusing on Chicago

1:50

media and how it shapes the

1:52

way Black Americans see themselves. Are.

1:57

He on. We. are going to

1:59

get all up in your mind. I'm

2:02

ready. I'm ready. I don't know what it means, but

2:04

I'm still ready. I

2:06

like that attitude. I like that

2:09

attitude. All right. Okay. So

2:11

we're talking about black Chicago today. We're going

2:13

to be talking in our conversation specifically

2:16

about black journalism

2:18

and how it played a crucial role

2:20

in shaping both black Chicago and

2:22

black America. I mean, and it's been

2:24

like that for over a century and

2:26

Chicago has long

2:28

been a magnet for black journalists. I mean, we can take that

2:30

all the way back to Ida B. Wells

2:32

in the late 1800s, who

2:35

eventually found a home in Chicago. But

2:37

what many people might not recognize is

2:40

that the Chicago defender, you know, a

2:42

foundational black paper of record was

2:45

somewhat responsible for

2:47

the first wave of the great migration.

2:49

Can you lay that out for us?

2:51

Yeah, absolutely. The Pullman

2:54

porters who were oftentimes

2:56

formerly enslaved black men

2:59

who worked on the trains,

3:01

they would take copies of the paper

3:03

and they would distribute it on routes

3:05

down south. Not only

3:07

are there

3:10

editorials that are saying, listen, come

3:12

on up north, pack your bags,

3:14

move. There's also job ads. They're

3:16

telling you, hey, this is where

3:19

you can come to work. There

3:21

are places that tell you, hey,

3:23

this is where you could come

3:25

to live. This is where your

3:27

kids can go to school. So the defender

3:29

is not only telling you, come on up

3:32

here, but they're like, this is how you

3:34

can make it. You

3:36

say in your book that the newspaper

3:39

started talking about those things

3:41

in 1917, which of

3:43

course is like right at the beginning or right

3:45

before that first wave

3:47

of the great migration where black people

3:50

moving from down south to up north.

3:52

And it was so interesting to me

3:54

that the paper would print these headlines

3:57

like North bound, hear their

3:59

cry. Goodbye, Dixieland. I

4:01

mean, it was really telling black people

4:03

to a certain degree that They

4:06

could have a better life Away from

4:08

Jim Crow South if they moved up to

4:10

Chicago and at least a few black people

4:13

listen according to your book before

4:15

the Great Migration black people took up 2%

4:18

of Chicago's population and after

4:21

Black Chicagoans accounted for one third

4:23

of the population. That's a big shift. Yeah

4:26

My grandma when she moved up here in the

4:29

40s, she was still picking cotton before she moved

4:31

up here, right? So imagine

4:33

going from a Time

4:36

where you're like, well, this is the only

4:38

way that we know how to make money

4:40

to the opportunity To

4:42

do something new to try

4:44

something new that can feel

4:47

silent Just

4:49

thinking about how black Chicago may perhaps

4:51

not exist in the same way We're

4:53

not for the black press was so interesting to me that

4:56

also comes through in the way

4:58

the black press in Chicago Reported

5:00

on its own community like in

5:03

looking at some of the early

5:05

black Chicago newspapers like the defender

5:07

you really see the necessity of

5:09

having a Nationwide

5:11

journalistic voice that can go out

5:14

and report on Jim Crow America You

5:16

know the defender also offered critical

5:19

reporting on Chicago's race riot of

5:21

1919 first of all,

5:23

if you could lay out quickly what the race riot of 1919 was and why

5:25

was the defenders Reporting

5:30

so important. Yeah. Yeah

5:32

like What was happening

5:35

in other places during this red summer

5:37

of 1919? Chicago

5:40

also experienced Violence

5:44

it started when

5:46

a group of black kids

5:48

were swimming in

5:50

a Segregated

5:52

beach. Yeah, you said it

5:55

was like it was like an imaginary line

5:57

on this beach that was meant to separate

6:00

people and black people. Yeah. So

6:02

how do you hold the line in the water? Exactly. How

6:04

do you hold the line in the water, right? So it

6:07

was said that the kids

6:11

accidentally went over this

6:13

imaginary line into the

6:15

white side. What

6:17

we do know is that a young

6:20

black boy named Eugene was

6:23

hit in the head with

6:25

a rock and he drowned.

6:29

In first-hand accounts they said the

6:31

police really were not trying to

6:35

help the

6:37

black kids. It just

6:39

became this thing that turned

6:41

into days of unrest.

6:45

What were the differences between the reporting

6:47

that you saw coming out of the

6:49

defender during that time versus the reporting

6:52

in mainstream newspapers? You know,

6:54

if you go to the mainstream papers,

6:57

even the, I guess, quote-unquote

6:59

nicest articles will say, well,

7:01

you know what? Of course

7:03

the Negroes would get this

7:06

way because it's not their fault that we

7:08

have this Negro problem, right? It was kind

7:10

of this idea that black people's fault that

7:12

you're a problem to the society. And

7:15

those were the nicest articles

7:17

talking about it. Then

7:19

you go over to the defender and you

7:22

get to experience a lot of the

7:24

anger of how people were actually feeling

7:27

that week. But it just is always

7:29

a reminder that when in these times

7:31

of violence who's gonna

7:33

be our voice? And of course I know we

7:35

have people doing it today, but like the reminder

7:38

that we still need voices

7:41

and perspectives. I think

7:43

about, you know, us being, you

7:45

know, journalists reading that portion

7:47

of your book really illustrated

7:50

what our archives of that moment

7:52

could have looked like if

7:54

we didn't have a paper like

7:56

The Defender to be able to get those

7:58

perspectives across. I want to jump

8:01

forward a little bit in history. We can't talk

8:03

about black journalism, black media in Chicago without

8:06

talking about this organization. One

8:08

institution that really cemented Chicago's

8:10

role as a major hub

8:12

for black media in the middle of

8:14

the 20th century was Johnson Publishing Company,

8:16

which was started by John H. Johnson. At

8:18

the time I attended Howard University, our

8:21

school of communications was named after him. If

8:25

you don't recognize that name, right,

8:27

you would recognize the magazines under

8:30

it. We've got Jet, Ebony,

8:33

so many of the publications at Johnson

8:35

Publishing Company to find how

8:37

black Americans saw themselves and

8:39

also to a certain degree created

8:41

the record of black

8:44

culture. How crucial was

8:47

Chicago to the

8:49

founding of Johnson Publishing Company?

8:52

Yes, yes. And I think that

8:54

this is a place where I

8:56

truly do believe that location matters.

8:59

I also often think

9:01

about its connection to advertising.

9:04

If you're thinking about Vogue, for example,

9:06

you're like, well, it would have to

9:09

be based in New York where fashion

9:11

is, right? Well, in Chicago

9:13

is where you had all

9:16

these major black advertising companies.

9:19

Geographically, Chicago was like

9:21

a really helpful place.

9:24

And thinking about visually

9:27

what Johnson Publishing Company

9:29

represented, like it really

9:32

did try to represent

9:34

modern blackness, right? The

9:38

description that you provided in the book about

9:41

one of the offices at Jet having

9:44

wall-to-wall leopard print carpeting, which is

9:46

my dream for myself. That's

9:48

my dream for me. But I was

9:50

like, oh, you do that in office? Exactly.

9:54

This is just their place of work. I

9:56

also wanna talk about just like the

9:58

hustle that Chicago people have. What

10:01

were some of the methods and strategies

10:04

that Johnny Johnson used in the early

10:06

days of Johnson Publishing Company to be

10:08

able to get his company on

10:11

the ground? Yes, that is really a

10:13

great question because if this is not

10:15

Chicago Hustle, I don't know what it

10:17

is. So the first thing is,

10:19

is that he used his

10:22

mom's furniture to get the

10:24

money. I

10:28

don't know if he convinced her or if he just did

10:30

it and just said, mom, I promise this will

10:32

pay off. Second

10:34

of all, he would have

10:36

his friends go around to

10:39

different newsstands and say, hey,

10:43

do you carry this? So his first publication

10:46

was something called Negro Digest and it

10:48

was kind of like this black version

10:52

of Reader's Digest. And so

10:55

he would have them go and say,

10:57

hey, do you carry Negro Digest? And

11:00

so the people at the newsstands are

11:02

like, no, I don't. Like, should I? Like people

11:04

keep coming up and saying, do I carry Negro

11:07

Digest? What is this Negro Digest? Let me get

11:09

you on the stand. He

11:11

also was working at

11:13

a insurance company and

11:15

he used their list to get his

11:17

subscribers up. I don't know

11:19

if that was legal. I don't know who to do that. I don't

11:22

know, but he hustled. It worked. So

11:24

he did all these things and

11:26

he made himself successful. And

11:29

his wife, Eunice, also did something

11:31

very similar much later, even after

11:33

they were already famous. They never

11:35

lost that hustle. So even Eunice

11:38

Johnson, she started this Ebony

11:40

fashion fair, like a show,

11:42

like a modeling show, just

11:44

a big fashion show. But

11:47

that actually led to what we

11:49

know as fashion fair makeup. Yes.

11:52

One of the first and biggest makeup lines for black

11:55

women. They launched it in 1973. Yeah. Yeah.

11:58

So Eunice noticed that. But the models

12:00

were mixing up their own shades.

12:03

So they would use eyeshadows and

12:05

other stuff to try to make

12:08

the makeup dark enough for them. So

12:10

they got to be chemists and models. That's

12:15

how she decided to make fashion fair and

12:17

cosmetics. And it

12:19

became one of the first black

12:21

lines to really be in these

12:23

major department stores. And we know,

12:25

looking back to the 70s, 80s, there

12:27

was no internet. So

12:31

it was really important to be in

12:33

a department store. To be able to

12:35

get that line into these really fancy

12:37

department stores was a really big deal.

12:40

I remember going with my

12:43

mom to our local department stores and we

12:45

would go to the makeup

12:47

counters and they would have the fashion fair.

12:50

And I remember seeing the pink compacts and

12:52

the pink twos that were thick. Now to

12:55

continue talking on the note of

12:57

black owned, that makes me think of

13:00

one particular very Chicago

13:02

black media figure. I

13:05

think you might be able to guess who I'm talking about.

13:07

I am now. I am now. I

13:09

am guessing that you are talking about the

13:12

Oprah Winfrey. The

13:14

Oprah Winfrey. Exactly.

13:17

Exactly. You know, we could go on

13:19

and on about all the things that people know about Oprah

13:22

the icon and about her show.

13:24

But I want to ask you about her decision to

13:26

set up her Harpo Studios in Chicago.

13:28

Why was that such a big deal? Yeah.

13:32

So she really kind of had a

13:34

lot of foresight because the area that

13:37

she opened her studios

13:39

and now it is

13:41

this booming area. Everybody

13:44

wants to be in the West Loop. It's

13:46

like one of my favorite places to go

13:48

out on Saturday nights. But at the time,

13:50

it was our meat packing district. So

13:53

not a lot was over

13:55

there. And so Oprah was

13:58

really able to kind of create this facility. that

14:00

worked for her. Right. By

14:03

the late 1990s, the Oprah Show had 20 million regular

14:06

viewers, $150 million in annual

14:08

revenue, and about 200 employees.

14:11

I mean, that's a big company to

14:13

be based in Chicago and making media

14:16

like that. We're discussing

14:18

this rich history of black

14:20

media and black journalism in Chicago, but

14:23

looking at the present, it's

14:25

looking a little shakier. Many of the

14:27

publications that you celebrate in your book

14:30

are shuttered or digital only these days.

14:32

I mean, and there's been something

14:34

of an exodus when it comes to

14:36

black Chicagoans. 85,000 black residents

14:38

left Chicago between 2010 and

14:41

2020. I mean, one reason could

14:43

be because, you know, lots of

14:45

affordable housing has been demolished or

14:48

converted. I don't know, where

14:50

does all of this leave black culture?

14:53

Yeah, well, I'm

14:56

still extremely helpful because I think that

14:58

now we just live in a different

15:01

and more digital world. So

15:03

the people, for example, who leave

15:05

Chicago, I don't think they ever

15:07

truly leave. And even the way

15:09

that I view the black

15:12

press, so many

15:14

of the places that I see

15:16

doing a lot of great work,

15:19

they have virtual newsrooms. So in Chicago,

15:21

we do have a place that

15:23

I love called the tribe and

15:25

they do a lot of so

15:27

much important local work

15:29

here. I see so

15:32

many extremely smart black

15:34

journalists like trying to

15:36

create a new black

15:39

press. And I think that that's

15:42

worth loving on and supporting and

15:44

like paying some dollars to and

15:48

because I think it's gonna look different.

15:50

I so sad that I'll never get

15:52

to see that wall-to-wall leopard print

15:55

carpet, you know, but

15:57

we just might have to start us up

15:59

our own. thing. It

16:01

put a little lever free carpet in there. Well

16:05

Ariane, thank you so much for joining

16:07

me today to talk about your book.

16:09

It was a joy to read. Thank you

16:11

so much. Thank you for having me. That

16:15

was Ariane Nettles. Her new book, We

16:17

Are the Culture, Black Chicago's Influence

16:19

on Everything, is out now. There

16:26

are a lot of issues on voters minds

16:28

right now. Six big ones

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16:32

Guns, reproductive rights, immigration,

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the debates on these issues, and what's

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at stake. You can listen to NPR's

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Consider This wherever you get your

16:49

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16:51

Money is all in on video games.

16:53

Not just because they're a fun hobby, video

16:56

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16:58

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17:00

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17:02

games that are really taking, I mean,

17:04

half a billion dollars to make. We're

17:06

taking a week long look at the

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video game industry. Listen to the Indicator

17:10

from Planet Money podcast on NPR. In

17:13

this country, more than two local newspapers

17:15

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17:18

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18:00

Hey, Brittany. Hey, Brittany.

18:02

Hey, Brittany. Hey,

18:04

Brittany, this is Rudy from Chicago, and

18:06

my favorite Met Gala theme is from

18:08

2019, which was camp notes on fashion.

18:14

I remember being very pink. This was

18:16

years before Barbie Corp, but I just

18:18

remember Lady Gaga's many

18:21

layers and luxury

18:23

fashion is often seen as ridiculous

18:26

and exaggerated. So why not

18:28

lean into it? Thanks. Hey,

18:31

Rudy. Thank you so much for calling in

18:33

with this memory of yours. For those

18:35

of you who don't know, the first

18:37

Monday in May is closing in quickly,

18:39

which means that the Met Gala is

18:41

right around the corner. So we'll

18:43

see how people stick to this

18:45

year's theme, which is Sleeping Beauty's

18:48

reawakening fashion. And the official dress code

18:50

is the Garden of Time,

18:52

whatever that means. As far as favorite

18:54

themes, I have a toss

18:56

up. My top two favorites were

18:59

2015 China through Looking Glass, which

19:01

showed like China's influence on Western

19:03

fashion and was absolutely amazing. It

19:05

featured one of the best Rihanna looks

19:07

of all time when she

19:10

wore that long yellow cape

19:12

that draped all the way down the

19:15

Met Gala. They're absolutely perfect.

19:17

And also, I really loved the

19:19

2012 Met Gala theme. Oh,

19:22

Schiaparelli and Prada and Possible Conversations.

19:24

They were two of my favorite

19:26

designers of all time period. Having

19:29

their work shown together in the

19:31

actual exhibit that year was incredible.

19:34

So I was really into both of

19:36

those. But you know what,

19:38

Rudy? I also feel you on camp. That

19:40

was a good year. My favorite

19:43

look was actually Casey

19:45

Moss Graves. Casey Moss

19:47

Graves that year dressed up as Barbie.

19:49

When she rode up to the pink

19:51

carpet that year for Met Gala, she

19:54

rode up in a convertible, like

19:57

waving her arm kind of robotic.

20:00

and cocking her head to the side

20:02

the way that Barbie would. It was

20:04

epic and so so so cool. Funnily

20:07

enough, I know that a lot of people follow the Met Gala

20:09

now but I have been following

20:11

the Met Gala before they used to

20:13

post the photos like on every single

20:16

blog and every single magazine or every

20:18

single newspaper. I would have to sit

20:20

there on the no longer functioning style.com

20:22

the day after the Met Gala just

20:25

clicking over and over again

20:27

trying to see the different

20:30

outfits and who stayed on theme.

20:33

Oh my gosh waiting for those photos to

20:35

load not feeling like I had anybody to

20:37

talk to but like a couple of my

20:39

friends who really cared about what people were wearing

20:41

to Met Gala. It was

20:44

fun it felt like you're kind of in like a

20:46

little secret club of fashion nerds. I know

20:48

there's some people that like to lament

20:50

how the Met Gala has become this

20:52

huge spectacle that now everybody has opinions

20:55

on but I don't know I think

20:57

it's kind of fun. I think it's

20:59

nice that people are finding a way

21:01

to appreciate the craftsmanship and the vision

21:03

that goes into so many of the

21:05

beautiful clothes that we often see on

21:08

red carpets or in museums or on

21:10

catwalks. To me the more

21:12

people understand the level of skill that

21:14

goes into this work perhaps

21:16

the more they'll begin to understand just how

21:19

much skill you even need to have to

21:21

make a t-shirt or a pair of sweatpants. So

21:24

Rudy thank you so much for calling in with

21:26

this memory and to the rest of you I

21:28

cannot wait to see your Met Gala

21:31

judgments on the timeline.

21:34

Now if you want to be heard on

21:36

an upcoming Hey Britney I have a question

21:38

for you. Now Mother's Day is

21:40

coming up and I know some of y'all

21:42

are out there scrambling trying to figure out

21:44

what to do for your mamas so I

21:47

wonder do any of y'all have

21:49

ideas on how to celebrate Mother's

21:51

Day. Let's activate the hive mind.

21:53

Also I love to hear your

21:55

favorite Mother's Day memory. Send us

21:57

a voice memo at hiBAM at

21:59

any This

22:07

episode of Its Bit A Minute was produced

22:09

by Alexis Williams, Corey Antonio

22:11

Rose. This episode was

22:13

edited by Jessica Plojak. Engineering support

22:16

came from Gilly Moon, our

22:18

executive producer is Verilyne Williams,

22:21

our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini.

22:24

Alright, that's all for this episode of Its Bit

22:26

A Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany

22:28

Luce. Talk soon! If

22:36

you've never donated to the NPR network before,

22:38

that's okay. Public radio is available

22:41

to everyone for free. But

22:43

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Every time you drive your car, have a

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