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Annie Sargent: This is Join Us in France, episode 498, quatre
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cent quatre-vingt-dix-huit. Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent, and Join Us in France is the podcast where we take
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a conversational journey through the beauty, culture, and flavors of France.
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Today, I bring you 'The Big Bootcamp 2024' episode with lots of
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bootcampers sharing their experiences.
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And this episode is going to run long because bootcampers have lots to say, and
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also, there are some news to be discussed.
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This podcast is supported by donors and listeners who buy my tours and services,
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including my Itinerary Consult Service, my GPS self-guided tours of Paris on the
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VoiceMap app, or take a day trip with me around the Southwest in my electric car.
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You can browse all of that at my boutique: joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
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Patreon supporters get new episodes as soon as they are ready, and ads free.
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If that sounds good to you, be like them, follow the link in the show notes.
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For the magazine part of the podcast after my chats with bootcampers, I'll discuss
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the snap election announced by Emmanuel Macron on Sunday night, when he learned
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that his party lost badly in the European elections to the Rassemblement National
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party which is led by Marine Le Pen.
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Bonjour, Ashley and Brian, and welcome to the show.
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Ashley Holm: Thank you Annie, good to be here. Annie Sargent: All right, Ashley, why don't you introduce yourself first?
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Ashley Holm: My name is Ashley Holm, and I am from Kansas, and I am a
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beginner in the French language. Annie Sargent: And this is not your first time in France though.
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Ashley Holm: This is not my first time. Annie Sargent: How many times would you say?
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Ashley Holm: I counted, and this is number eight. Annie Sargent: Wow.
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Wow. Okay, we have a definite francophile over here.
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How about you, Brian? Brian Tolleson: Another francophile. I am from Atlanta, Georgia.
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I'm Brian Tolleson, and I don't know, I stopped counting, over
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20, maybe over 30 times I think. Annie Sargent: So why did you decide to come to the bootcamp?
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Brian Tolleson: You know, I've adored the podcast, you and Elyse are like ... to me,
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and I just really wanted to see what it was like to check out Toulouse, because
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I've also never been in Toulouse, and I adore the city, I mean, it's sort of like
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a little Baby Paris, I love this city. Annie Sargent: Yeah, it's been very nice, so we've kind of
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lucked out on the weather. But it's still cooler than normal, and wetter than normal this
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May, but it's worked out, right? Ashley Holm: Yeah, to me it's been perfect.
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Annie Sargent: Yeah. So, was this your first time in Toulouse as well?
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Ashley Holm: It was my first time, but I've been so curious about
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Toulouse for the past few years when I've listened to the podcast and I
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thought, well, if everybody's like Elyse and Annie, I can't go wrong.
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Annie Sargent: Did you meet anybody who was not friendly?
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Ashley Holm: No. No, not Annie Sargent: yet. Ashley Holm: Perhaps you won't.
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It's pretty unusual. Most people here are not, you know, we're laid back.
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We're laid back. Alright, so, so far, what has been your favorite activity that
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we did on the, on this tour? We haven't, we're two days shy of the end, so who knows?
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You might prefer the others, but what do you think?
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I particularly loved our first big trip to Albi, and it had some
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beautiful gardens, it had a beautiful castle, some beautiful architecture
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around town, and a wonderful museum.
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It just had everything you could want in a small
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Annie Sargent: a village. Albi is surprising because it's small but has so much.
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I think it's a beautiful place. How about you, Brian?
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Brian Tolleson: I think it's sort of the mix between Albi, which was just
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fantastic, and then Sainte Cécile, which was just a beautiful church.
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But also yesterday, we were just in the countryside, and, you
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know, someone's herding sheep. Just, you know, right in front of you, I mean, it couldn't have been more
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picturesque and a more beautiful day.
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I love being outside and just being able to walk along this sort of
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country road and into the village is just, kind of spectacular.
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Annie Sargent: Yeah, so it's interesting because on this tour we're going
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to do some very touristy things, like Carcassonne is very touristy.
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But we're also taking you to places where most visitors don't come.
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And that was Saint-Bertrand-de-Comminges.
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We've done an episode about it, so people talk about it, obviously, but
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like you said, you know, there was sheep and cows and a sheepdog and
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people stopping in the middle of the street to chat and all of that stuff.
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Brian Tolleson: All of us with our little bird ID app on our phones.
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Because we heard so many birds, I mean, you know, in the packed tourist
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places, you don't hear the birds. Annie Sargent: Correct. Yeah, we got out of the bus in Saint-Bertrand-de-Comminges and birds.
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I saw you were using the Merlin app and I was doing the same thing.
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I'm like, oh, that's funny, we're both thinking the same thing.
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And Elyse was talking, but I don't think anybody heard what she had to
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say about Saint-Bertrand-de-Comminges because everybody was paying attention
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to either the birds or the sheep. Ha ha ha ha ha.
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So, but that's okay. They also gave us a booklet and stuff.
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Alright, so is there anything that happened that you're not so happy about?
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Things that you wish had been different perhaps? Brian Tolleson: I mean, it was sort of a personal choice for me.
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If I had a to do over again, I would not stay right in the
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city center where I'm staying. I'm been staying right in Place Wilson.
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I was like, oh, I want to be a two minute walk to the bus.
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I want to be a two minute walk to the class.
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But that's also a one minute walk from the bars you know, in the middle of the night.
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So it's a little noisy right where I'm staying.
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Yeah. So I know a couple of other people stayed, you know, a few blocks off of the main
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squares, and I'm on the main square. That would just be my recommendation, you know, if you find an AirBnB, just
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make sure it's not on a big place, because that's also where all of
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the bars are, people up till 3 in the morning drinking and, you know,
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carousing and keeping you awake. Annie Sargent: Yes, that would be a problem for me as well.
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Or if it's an AirBnB where they tell you that the windows face in the inside
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courtyard, that's completely different.
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But if your windows face towards the big plaza, then, ugh, yeah.
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How about you? Ashley Holm: Well, I wish I had come in earlier because a lot of the group
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had planned ahead of time to go on a bike ride down the Canal du Midi.
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And I think they had a really beautiful tour, and I wish I would have seen that.
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Annie Sargent: Yeah, yeah, so yes, this is another thing that you can do if you
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come to Toulouse, you probably won't come back a million times, is stay a few days.
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This is the sort of place where you can spend, I don't know, on your own, probably
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three, four days and find things to do.
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Brian Tolleson: That's what we, that's exactly what I did and I'm so glad I did
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it, cause I really felt grounded when the bootcamp actually started, because I
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already sort of had my footing on what, you know, I think it would be difficult
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to walk in, you know, step into the tour without having some grounding.
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And we had managed to go see the Cathar exhibit before, and I think
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that gave us some background. Because I didn't even know the whole human rights sort of, you know,
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exploitation of the people of the region, you know, labeling them Cathar.
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Like, just having that whole background really gave me a lot going into the tour.
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That's great. That's wonderful. Annie Sargent: Yeah, had you done other tours before, or was this your
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first time with a group like this? Let me ask Ashley first.
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Ashley Holm: I have only taken one other group tour, and it was
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because of OFAC regulations in Cuba.
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So this is not my preferred way to travel, but it was really wonderful.
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I think you're great tour guides. And I didn't mind riding around in the big bus.
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It got us to where we needed to go. Yeah.
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And I would do it again. Annie Sargent: Yeah. A bus is a really efficient way to go.
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You know, it's not ideal, but we don't usually spend that much time in the bus.
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Did you ever feel like, oh my God, I need to get out of this bus?
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Brian Tolleson: No, I never thought that. Yeah. And I just, I think because we all have an affinity for the podcast, we
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all sort of have some commonalities that made us go well together.
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I've never done a bootcamp before, ever, and I don't think I ever will.
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Because I don't, you know, I think there was a selection factor that happened,
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by us all having the same affinity for the same things in the podcast.
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Annie Sargent: Yeah, it's definitely a self-selecting kind of group.
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If you don't like the kind of cultural and historical and our style, I
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guess, then you're not going to come. You know, you're not going to keep listening to the podcast, and so...
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Have you made some friends on this tour? Ashley Holm: I have, yeah.
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I've met some people that I think I'll stay in touch with.
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Yeah. I'm really pleased about that.
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Annie Sargent: Are they mostly about your age? About your...?
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Ashley Holm: No. No, they're much, much older, but it's, it's fun.
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We have a lot of commonalities. Annie Sargent: How about you, Brian?
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Brian Tolleson: Oh, same, in fact, some people are meeting me here to go do something else.
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New friends. Annie Sargent: I think that's one of the things that I like the best
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is, you know, some of the people from the bootcamp last year reach
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out to me, ask me questions, ask me for some advice, and it's wonderful.
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And sometimes they're surprised that I remember them, so I'll tell you what,
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I'm not very good with faces, with names.
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Ashley actually, you told me off because I couldn't remember your
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name at one point, which is fair. Yeah, it worked.
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Yeah, but it worked. Now I'm not going to forget Ashley or Ryan.
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But even years later, if you tell me I was in the bootcamp, of
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course I'm going to remember you, like, you know, that's just...
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And I have people who've done tours with us years ago, back when we started,
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the very beginning with Elyse, where it was teeny tours with three people.
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And of course, when they reach out to me, I remember that, I'm like, of course.
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Yeah, that's how it works. Brian Tolleson: The group of people is I think what has made it most enjoyable.
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It is a bunch of people, like you said, who self-select in common
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interests and common perspectives, even though people have different
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things they're really passionate about. Annie Sargent: Right.
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And professionally, we have a little bit of everything.
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Like, Ashley, you're a lawyer, you're
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Brian Tolleson: A consultant in public health and social justice.
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Annie Sargent: There you go. There you go. So, very different people.
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We have some retired people. We don't have any musicians this year, I don't think.
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We'll test it, tomorrow, we will do some sing along in the bus.
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I have prepared a few songs. Ashley Holm: Bus karaoke is happening.
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Brian Tolleson: Horticulturist. Who's the horticulturist?
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Who? Wendy. Annie Sargent: Wendy, oh, very nice.
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Very nice. Yeah, I haven't had a chance to talk with everybody, and the reality is, at
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the end of the day, when we get home on the bus, my voice is usually shot,
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I'm like, oh, I've got to sit here and be quiet for a minute, because...
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it's hard for me to talk all day. It really is.
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I'm not used to this. I'm usually by myself in my office.
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So anything you want to tell everybody about the bootcamp, if people are
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considering doing it, what are some things, it's not good for, what reason?
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Brian Tolleson: I think some of the things that I was, you know, I thought,
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for the wine tasting, I don't drink, so I thought, oh, you know what,
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I'm going to feel pressure to go. But it's very casual.
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I mean, it's sort of like, I said, oh, you know what, I'm not going to go to
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the wine tasting, everybody's like, okay, we'll miss you and see you later.
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You can sort of dip in and dip out. It's not sort of overly structured, it's not, you know, you don't feel
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pressure to like, get on the bus and, I mean obviously, we have to meet the
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bus at the right time, but you know, if you're not going, you're not going.
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Annie Sargent: Oh yeah, oh yeah. This is a very important point as a matter of fact.
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We're all adults, so I'm not worried about, you know, I mean if I take 35
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people in the bus leaving, I make sure I have 35 people coming back, you know.
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But besides that, I'm really not worried about it.
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I mean, it's nice if you let me know so we don't wait for people who are never
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going to show up, but not a huge deal.
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So I think there is a lot of flexibility and a lot of, you
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know, yeah, we're all grown ups. We do what works for us.
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And some people have gotten sick, some people have taken
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time off, which is great. It's not a problem.
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Ashley Holm: And I think that we haven't been overly scheduled.
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It's been a very comfortable pace and a very comfortable amount
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of time together and apart.
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So I think it was planned very well that way.
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Annie Sargent: Wonderful. Yes, and this afternoon, we're going to have the olympic
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flame coming through Toulouse.
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Brian Tolleson: There are men with shotguns out there.
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Annie Sargent: There's a lot of security, yeah, a lot of security
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going on, obviously, I saw some police, right outside of the post office.
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Somebody had left a stack of cardboard boxes.
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And he was like, okay, somebody come and clear that, because we
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can't have stacks of anything, which, you know, it makes sense.
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All right, you guys, well, thank you so much for talking to me, I think we're
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going to move with the next group. They've all arrived.
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So, Merci beaucoup. We'll
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Brian Tolleson: you soon tomorrow, or perhaps later today.
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Merci. Annie Sargent: Bonjour Jay and Wendy, why don't you introduce
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yourselves a little bit. Ladies first. Wendy.
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Wendy: Wendy Gebb. I come from USA, New York City, and I love to travel.
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Annie Sargent: Wonderful. Wendy: Yes, and I really enjoy coming to France often.
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I've had relatives living here who are now all gone, but I still
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have some old friends in Paris.
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And we come often. Annie Sargent: So you've been to France what, 10 times?
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20 times? Have you counted? Wendy: More.
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Annie Sargent: More than that, okay. Yes. All All right.
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Wendy: Since I was 20, you know. Speaker 9: Wow.
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Wendy: A zillion times. Yes. Uncountable. Annie Sargent: Yes, that's wonderful.
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And Jay, you're the youngest person in this bootcamp.
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Jay: I think so, Speaker 7: yeah. Annie Sargent: Go ahead, introduce yourself.
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Jay: My name's Jay, and I come from California, from the Bay
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Area, south of San Francisco, and this is my second time in France.
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And I'm really enjoying it, and hopefully this is one of many more times I can come.
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Annie Sargent: That's wonderful. So, both of you, you are not taking the language classes.
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No. So, tell me about what that's like.
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Wendy: Well, for me, you know, I've been around a long time, and I know what my
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limitations in the French language are.
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You're just finding out, Jay. But, you know, I've gone about as far as I can go.
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I can get along. Annie Sargent: Every day things you can do.
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Yes, I can. Right. Wendy: But I really enjoy walking, this is such a beautiful city.
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And so interesting, and so different than anything I've ever seen.
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Is that right? So it makes it very interesting. Like yesterday, I always get lost and I know that these cities
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actually were planned so that when invaders came they would get lost.
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I'm an invader and I get lost every time.
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Oh dear. So yesterday I ended up trying to go to the Japanese Garden and I finally ran
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into the ramparts, which were magnificent.
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I didn't even take a picture because I was trying to get to
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the Japanese Garden, you know? So, it was sad, but at any rate, they were beautiful to see.
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Annie Sargent: So this was your first time in Toulouse, of all these many times in France.
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Wendy: I've been to the Toulouse airport several times.
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Annie Sargent: Oh, right, well, but the airport doesn't really count, does it?
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That's right, absolutely. And I had a mother in law who, at one point, we went to Vaison la Romaine.
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Yes, and stayed in a wonderful old, you know, sort of fallen
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down castle in the middle of town.
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And she always, she always was rebuilding a house somewhere in the countryside.
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Yeah, so we didn't stay with her because she must have been
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in the process of rebuilding. Right, right.
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And what about you, Jay? So this was your second time in Toulouse, right?
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Alright, so what brings you to Toulouse? Like, why do you like this area so much?
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Jay: Uh, the first time I came was a few years back, I was in
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college, and my senior year of high school, there wasn't enough students
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interested in coming to France.
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So, unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to come senior year.
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It would be two years later, in 2016, when my sister was in the high school
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French class, and through my sister, my old French teacher got in touch with me.
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She said, Hey, you're still considered by your age as a student, would you still
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be interested in coming to Toulouse and spending a week with a French family?
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And I said yes, I jumped on board.
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I spent one week here in Toulouse with the family.
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I loved it. It was always a small group of us going to different places.
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We ended up going to Carcassonne. So, I know we haven't gone yet, but I'm looking forward to that as well.
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Yes, of course. I purposely have not purchased things, to buy those things in
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Carcassonne when we get there. But I love Toulouse.
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It's a really walkable city. I like the buildings.
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For it to be a city, at least here, it doesn't feel suffocating
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compared to other cities. San Francisco and San Jose are the cities that are near me, and just driving
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by them, you see the tall buildings and you think, I'm going to get lost.
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But here I think if you get lost, it's a fun adventure, at least because
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everything might be more colorful, but I love how walkable everything is, the
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public transportation here is great. Yeah.
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Yeah, I love that. That's great. And I'm having a good time just walking around in the mornings taking pictures.
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A couple of days ago I walked towards the river, and on the way there I bumped
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into three different pastry shops.
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And I just told myself I have to come back and try from each of them at some point.
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And I just love how there's so much variety everywhere.
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Annie Sargent: Right. Wendy, one of the things I wanted to ask you about is you've taken a lot of these
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organized tours, and I knew that you, Jay, you would like to work in tourism as well.
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So, I would like to get your feedback about how this organized tour is
18:04
different from others you've taken. Could you talk a little bit about that?
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Wendy: Very. Well, I guess I was unprepared to be so free.
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But then, of course, I had three days that I had to go and figure out what
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to wear since I didn't get my bag. Annie Sargent: Oh, that's true.
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Yeah, you started out, yeah, your bag got lost.
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Wendy: This was a problem. Yeah. I think that actually I would have really appreciated some ideas like
18:31
where to go at night time, like just to hear music or singing.
18:34
You know, like something casual where you can have a glass of wine and...
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Yeah, ok... And I haven't run into anything like that.
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Annie Sargent: That is a good suggestion i haven't thought of that.
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Yes. Wendy: And I have some other ideas here too.
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Annie Sargent: Yes, you came prepared. That's good. Wendy: Okay.
18:50
In a way, I think there are a few too many people.
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Annie Sargent: You think it's too many people? Wendy: Yeah.
18:55
Because I think that, also if you're on a bus that's, you know, our bus
19:00
is gigantic, we could have a smaller bus, or we could have the same bus
19:04
and we could stick our feet out. Annie Sargent: That's true.
19:07
Wendy: When we go for two hours. That's another thing.
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Annie Sargent: Well, Elyse agrees with you. Elyse would prefer to make it a smaller group, but then we
19:17
would have to raise the price. And I guess that's possibly possible, but that's the reason why
19:24
I tend to go 40 max, and there's 37 of us on this tour this year.
19:31
Yeah. Wendy: It's busy. And I think also it's really hard in such a short time to get to know 40 people.
19:38
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Wendy: You kind of think about them as they join, right?
19:42
Annie Sargent: Yes. But, one thing that we do that helps is that we have a WhatsApp
19:47
group ahead of time, well ahead of time, which I'm pretty sure you
19:50
haven't had on any previous tours. And so people can get to know each other, the people who
19:56
participate in the WhatsApp group. Wendy: That was good.
19:59
And I had a friend coming to spend a weekend with me and
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that was the WhatsApp weekend. Annie Sargent: Yeah, yeah.
20:05
So, really, that's one thing to keep in mind is the way this works
20:09
is people get to know each other ahead of time on the WhatsApp group.
20:13
We also did two Zoom meetings. I'm not sure if you were on one of those.
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Wendy: I made one, but I couldn't hear it because I was in Florida, you know.
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Annie Sargent: Ah, well... but, so we do try to get people to, you know, get somewhat acquainted with one
20:28
another before, but it's not perfect.
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And like you said, it is a big group. I do understand that.
20:34
Yeah. What do you think, Jay?
20:36
Jay: The group size does seem kind of large, that's what I thought at first.
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But, I don't know, maybe it's because I'm younger. I like the group size just because I get to know people from different places.
20:48
We get to talk more. Some have really great French, some are just learning.
20:54
Some have never been here, which is also great because I felt like I was one of
20:58
the people with the least experience here. And then I'm like, okay, I'm not the only one that's only been
21:02
here a couple times or someone that's here for their first time.
21:05
Annie Sargent: Did you make new friends? Jay: Yes, yes.
21:08
I work in tourism back on the weekends, and then I was talking to a couple of
21:13
the people in the bootcamp yesterday on our little excursion, and they have
21:18
plans to be in the San Francisco area, and now that they found out I work
21:22
in tourism on the weekends, they're like, oh, we should come check you out
21:25
sometime, and I told them let me know so I could be your tour guide, because I
21:28
don't actually do tours like this city.
21:30
I work at his at a historical landmark, so I'm always stuck there.
21:34
The Winchester Mystery House. Annie Sargent: Yes.
21:37
Yes. Jay: It's just a building that I tell the history, but this is nice because
21:41
it's city wide, it's little villages.
21:45
I like it. Annie Sargent: Yeah, we do a little bit of everything. Yeah.
21:47
Jay: And I also enjoy the little breaks we have in between to
21:50
go shop around, try the food. Yesterday, we ended up going to a little pastry shop.
21:55
We got some cookies, some coffee, and some bread.
21:58
It was just really nice. And just sitting down and seeing all the bread being made, it
22:02
gives you a different feel. You know it's freshly made, and you can taste the difference.
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Annie Sargent: Yeah, yeah. Wendy, we've done tours where you go, like you spend two nights in one city,
22:13
and then, like you'd spend perhaps two nights in Toulouse and then get
22:16
on a bus, and go all the way across France to some other part of France.
22:19
Wendy: It's only a taste. I mean, there are yes and no's to it.
22:23
Yes. You know? I mean, here there are so many nice little places to visit.
22:27
It kind of gives you a stream. But you're always packing your bag and going on to the next place.
22:33
Annie Sargent: Right, so that's the big disadvantage is pack your bag and go.
22:36
Wendy: And I'm definitely interested in staying in one spot and kind of
22:40
be a little more sedentary and going out and discovering for myself.
22:45
Annie Sargent: Yeah. I think some of the people who've come to the bootcamp before have said,
22:49
you know, it's nice because I have a few hours to myself each day, but I
22:53
know I'm going to meet with people...
22:56
Wendy: Later on. Annie Sargent: For part of the day. So it's not lonely.
22:59
Because sometimes when you travel by yourself, I mean, I enjoy going to Paris
23:03
by myself because I am writing a tour.
23:07
Wendy: Of course, you're busy. Annie Sargent: I'm busy. I am checking things out.
23:12
My husband is big into, what are we going to do today?
23:14
Like he wants one, two, three, four, five, you know.
23:17
When I'm writing a tour, I can't do that. I'm going to change my mind in the middle and go into
23:21
something I hadn't seen before. And so I love that spontaneity of traveling by myself.
23:28
But if you do that long enough, you get like lonely, you know,
23:32
you don't talk to anybody. We have kind of the best of both worlds here.
23:36
Has Toulouse been surprising as a city?
23:39
I want you to convince other people to come to Toulouse.
23:41
Wendy: Oh yes, I think it is surprising, because I never realized,
23:46
in Paris you think you have it all, but here this is really medieval.
23:50
So it's something that Paris is not.
23:52
It's much more advanced in that, I guess you'd say.
23:55
Jay: It's very welcoming, and going back to what we talked about
23:59
a few days ago, the best way to make a friend is to ask for help.
24:02
That unfortunately ended up happening to me, because the Airbnb that I was
24:06
staying at flooded two nights ago.
24:08
So, I had to reach out, the neighbor helped out as well because his place
24:13
underneath mine was also getting flooded. Annie Sargent: It flooded because of the rain?
24:16
Jay: No, it wasn't even raining that night. It was one in the morning, I heard water and I thought it was raining
24:21
and I thought I left the window open. I stepped out of the room into the living room, and then I just see the
24:26
living room coming down with water.
24:29
So, I ended up reaching out to the person for the Airbnb, their assistant,
24:34
and then the neighbor came and helped me because his place underneath
24:38
mine was also getting flooded. Turns out that the neighbor upstairs, we don't know where they were, they were
24:43
gone, but their door was unlocked, so we went in there, there was a dog in there,
24:48
and their shower had just gone crazy. So the shower head was on the floor throwing water everywhere,
24:54
and it eventually started leaking. Yeah.
24:56
So the power was out. It just needed to be turned off, but the owner wasn't, the
25:00
neighbor upstairs wasn't there. Wendy: In the meantime, it's a disaster.
25:03
Jay: Yes, so there's just water coming down everywhere from the light sockets,
25:08
like the light bulbs, everything, it's just dripping down them.
25:11
The power went out. The owner showed up within 10 minutes, which was great.
25:15
She was very helpful. She was very apologetic, even though it wasn't her fault.
25:19
I spent the night there and then the next morning she told
25:21
me, what time do I wake up? I told her nine. She showed up at nine and we ended up, she ended up moving everything
25:26
out into the patio to help it dry out.
25:29
She dried everything off. And then I booked a hotel for last night, and she didn't have to, but she helped
25:36
me carry some of my luggage to the hotel.
25:39
Annie Sargent: And of course, those two nights are going to get refunded, however many nights.
25:43
Yeah. Jay: But even that, she didn't have to show up in the morning
25:46
at nine o'clock to help with that. She didn't have to help me move my stuff to the hotel.
25:50
But she did. And she was very apologetic. I was also very apologetic, even though it wasn't either one of our faults.
25:55
Yes, but, like you said, if you want to talk to someone,
25:59
asking for help is the best way. Annie Sargent: That works every time in France, just, if you need help, ask for
26:06
Speaker: help. Jay: And I haven't had any negative experiences with
26:09
French people here in Toulouse. It's all been very positive.
26:12
I was in the park earlier and people were walking around with pamphlets
26:17
and I told them, I was like, oh, I speak a little bit of French.
26:19
And they're like, oh, English? And I was like, yes. And then we had a lovely conversation.
26:23
People here are a lot more willing to talk if you start the conversation.
26:26
Annie Sargent: Yeah, the feeling of the city is pretty busy and,
26:29
you know, there's people outside all the time, willing to talk.
26:33
Wendy: This is a busy city. I mean, it's amazing.
26:37
And it's a happy city. And they're just, people coming and going at every time of day and night.
26:42
Jay: And it's really easy to get comfortable in the city.
26:45
At this point, I kind of just like to wake up and wander around the city, see where
26:48
I'll end up, but take a different street.
26:51
But it's nice. Annie Sargent: That's wonderful. Thank you so much, you guys.
26:55
I'm so glad you talked to me, and we have two new people joining me, so
27:00
thank you, and we will talk to you soon.
27:02
Jay: Au revoir. Annie Sargent: Bonjour ladies.
27:05
Speaker 20: Bonjour, Annie. Kathleen: Bonjour, Annie.
27:08
Annie Sargent: Introduce yourselves, would you? Go ahead. Kathleen: Je m'appelle Kathleen Capriati.
27:12
Je suis de Pennsylvania. Oui. Et c'est tout.
27:15
Speaker 16: C'est tout. Annie Sargent: And she is a French teacher, which is why she
27:19
likes to do things in French. Now, the podcast is in English, so you'll have to continue in English, my friend.
27:23
Okay. How about you? Helena: Okay, so I'm Helena and I've got an Australian accent because I
27:29
lived in Australia for 40 years, but three years ago I moved back to England,
27:34
but I've been listening to Join us in France podcast since, oh for many years,
27:38
probably six or seven years, I think. I first heard it in Australia.
27:42
Wow. Yeah. I'm a great fan. Annie Sargent: So this is something that's different with you because you haven't
27:47
been listening to the podcast, have you? Kathleen: That's correct, Annie.
27:50
I have listened to one or two, but I haven't listened to them regularly and
27:55
now I have every intention to start. Annie Sargent: So how did you make it to the bootcamp?
28:00
Kathleen: I made it to the bootcamp through another person
28:03
who had recommended the podcast.
28:05
That's why I listened to one or two. And then she brought up the fact that there was the bootcamp
28:09
and did I want to do it? And I gave it like one night of thought, and that was right around the end of
28:15
the last year, and I'm like, this sounds like a great idea for the new year.
28:18
Annie Sargent: Oh, good! I'm glad you came. Kathleen: Thank you very much.
28:22
Annie Sargent: So, how have you liked your experience?
28:24
How is Toulouse? How are the language classes?
28:27
You're both taking language classes?
28:29
Helena: It surpassed my expectations. I mean, I've been to France a few times, but actually not down to Toulouse,
28:35
mostly the Northwest and to Paris.
28:38
As soon as I heard about the bootcamp last year, I listened to the
28:40
podcast on the bootcamp, I thought, I really want to be part of that.
28:44
So I signed up almost immediately, that you released places, and it
28:47
has surpassed my expectations. I think because of the flexibility, because of the range of activities,
28:53
and then having the classes as an adjunct has just worked out really well.
28:56
Right. Toulouse itself, is wonderful.
28:58
Annie Sargent: So, you feel the language class has been a good experience for you?
29:02
Helena: Yes, and those I was quite apprehensive about because I've
29:05
been part of language classes where they're either pitched too
29:08
low or they're pitched too high. And we had a particularly good teacher, Carole.
29:13
And there's quite a diversity in the class, diversity in the backgrounds
29:16
of the people, and also probably, to a certain extent, in the levels of comfort
29:21
with French, particularly spoken French. And she was very good at meeting the needs of each person, engaging
29:27
everyone, and ensuring that no one was either left out, or put in a
29:31
situation where it was beyond them. Right. I thoroughly recommend those classes.
29:36
Annie Sargent: That's good. And how about you, because as a French teacher, I mean, you
29:39
know, you're used to this. Kathleen: I had no idea what to expect.
29:42
I figured I'd be put into the advanced classes, and originally I wasn't.
29:47
And so all I did on the first day was that it was mentioned in French,
29:51
though, that I wasn't sure if I was in the correct niveau, the right level.
29:56
And they immediately took me by the arm, brought me to a woman, and then
29:59
they put me in C1, which is C1, and it's one of the advanced classes.
30:04
I couldn't be happier, practically giddy every day when I get there, and
30:09
if you're thinking of doing this and you already speak French, I think it's
30:12
good to know what the classes are like.
30:15
So the teacher was younger than me, all the other students were younger too,
30:20
but not super young, they were mature, they were from all different countries.
30:24
It was so interesting. So the common language was French.
30:28
And I'd say, it was very open, so I almost wonder if I brought that
30:35
feel to the class because it seemed a little quiet before I came.
30:39
And then when the teacher would say something, I would ask a
30:42
question or I would comment, and then everybody sort of just started
30:45
to, really it was a lot of fun. Our theme this week was literature, which was great, and we read a couple
30:52
excerpts about the authors, and then a little, just a page of their
30:56
writing, and then we contrasted two.
30:59
And today, I actually went on a field trip to a bookstore.
31:04
So, that was part of our level class, and it was great.
31:08
And I did, even though I would say I'm advanced and I'm really glad they had
31:12
something for my level, I learned stuff.
31:15
I learned a lot. Of course, yeah. Yeah. I did.
31:17
And I was, I knew that, I was humble enough to know that.
31:20
Annie Sargent: And you got to practice the French you already know, because
31:24
if you don't speak it, it gets rusty.
31:27
Right, right. Kathleen: Because I'm a retired teacher.
31:29
Annie Sargent: You're a retired teacher, alright. I didn't realize that.
31:32
I haven't taught in several years. Yeah. and it's good to learn new stuff and talk about new topics and all of that.
31:37
It was really fun. How have you liked the activities with the bootcamp?
31:41
Helena: Absolutely superb. And again, that range of activities.
31:45
One thing I love about the bootcamp is that there's a choice.
31:48
No one's forced into going on an activity.
31:50
And there is such a variety of them.
31:53
If you're going to ask the question, what was your favorite or what was your least
31:56
favorite, I honestly couldn't distinguish.
31:58
Each time I've said, AH!, this is the best thing we've done so far.
32:02
And then there's another one. And I know we've got a visit to Carcassonne and then the ancient paintings
32:09
tomorrow, which I'm looking forward to, as an Australian, to look at in relation
32:13
to the indigenous paintings in Australia, because they go back 40-50000 years.
32:19
Yeah, so it will be. I think the fact that we've had these places which have been moments
32:24
of just connection with the ancient culture around here, in the churches,
32:29
the importance of the Cathar, of so many pilgrims, I had no idea.
32:34
And this is awful because I've walked the Camino, I had no idea
32:37
Toulouse was so significant as a step of one of the ways on the Camino.
32:41
Well there's so many routes. You can't walk them all, you know, you pick one.
32:43
This is actually a very significant one.
32:45
Yeah. And then for me too, again as an Australian, I really encourage Europeans
32:51
and Australians to come on the bootcamp. I was living in a wine area in South Australia, and the visit to the
32:58
vineyard, the organic vineyard the other day was absolutely wonderful.
33:03
Annie Sargent: Yeah, so this is Canto Perlic.
33:05
Yes. A Gaillac wine. Lovely person.
33:08
I mean honestly, Passion that they have and the vision that they have for their product, the
33:13
fact that they, and they recognize this is a difficult process, but step by step.
33:19
And, you know, it gets better every year. Very, very hardworking and the absolutely beautiful generosity
33:25
and welcome that was given to us. Several people said, Oh, I just want to stay here longer because
33:30
it was pleasant, you know. Helena: I think one of our members has signed up for picking
33:33
grapes later on in the year.
33:36
There you go! Annie Sargent: Did you like the wine? The winery?
33:39
Kathleen: I loved it. Especially because the owner, I guess you used the term expat.
33:43
So she was American and she moved here young and she's
33:46
lived here all those years. So, yeah, the winery was so peaceful, and it was the window into the private
33:55
lives of people that live in the country here near Toulouse, which you
33:59
wouldn't get on any other kind of tour.
34:01
I mean, we were literally invited into their home.
34:05
And not only to taste the wines and the delicious cheeses, but to see
34:09
their children and to see their dog running around and to go into their
34:12
barns or, and look at all the cask and, you know, the barrels, et cetera.
34:17
So, yeah, that was an opportunity that is very hard to find.
34:21
Annie Sargent: Well, you know, a lot of wine tours, the situation is like this.
34:25
Look at me, I'm very cool because I've inherited this gorgeous property.
34:30
And let me, you know, let me show you around for an hour.
34:34
This is very different. This is a family affair.
34:37
You get to see the couple that runs the winery.
34:40
Their one daughter was there the whole time, the second one came back from school.
34:43
We got to meet their dog. They had a couple of helpers.
34:46
You know, it's not a show off kind of winery.
34:50
It's real. And most wineries in France are very small, and they're that sort of winery.
34:56
And so that's, I was delighted when I met her, because I thought,
35:00
you know, this woman, she got it.
35:02
And her husband is just as nice. Helena: And the fact they spoke about, they had both come out of the health
35:06
services, I think he was a doctor, she was working in the health services, and
35:09
then had made that decision 20 years ago. This is what we have a passion for, let's do it.
35:15
And I think there's probably a lot of your listeners who would have gone
35:18
through similar patterns in their life, thinking, do I, don't I, and look at the
35:23
result here, with a lot of hard work.
35:26
Annie Sargent: Yes, it is a lot of work. It is a lot of work.
35:28
And they have a lot of energy and, but they are outstanding.
35:32
And that's the one thing that I enjoy about organizing the bootcamp is
35:36
that I try to do a mix of activities.
35:39
So we're going to Carcassonne, very touristy, but we also went
35:43
to Saint Bertrand de Comminges, not nearly as touristy.
35:47
We also do the winery with a, you know, small, organic, family-owned winery.
35:52
Because it's the variety of experiences that makes it special.
35:58
Have you met some interesting people in the bus or on the tours that
36:01
you, have you made new friends? Helena: Enormously.
36:03
So there's a small bunch of us Europeans and so we, you know, started
36:08
joking and spending time together. But actually, we just formed really close friendships and the discussions
36:15
we've had have been wonderful. Really wonderful group of people.
36:19
And I kept asking myself, Why is everyone so good?
36:22
And I think it's because they're all francophiles, yeah, and just
36:26
that certain openness to different cultures, to a different way of being.
36:30
Annie Sargent: Well, and there's a certain self-selection, because most of the
36:33
people who came to the bootcamp have been listening to the podcast for a long time.
36:37
If they don't like our style, and they don't like, you know, they wouldn't come.
36:42
They just wouldn't come. And so it eliminates a lot of people who just wouldn't fit in, in the group.
36:48
And, I mean, we do have a wide variety of personalities and ages.
36:54
Have you met some new people as well? Kathleen: Yes, absolutely.
36:57
And what I would say is that even if you're someone who's been to France
37:01
many, many, many times, because this focuses on the Southwest and
37:06
Toulouse, and you know, we've gone in the area all around, it's very
37:10
unique to visit this region of France.
37:13
And that's what's been good for me. And there are some places on this agenda that I've been to before.
37:18
But there were also many that I haven't been to.
37:20
Annie Sargent: Do you think we're doing too much, too little? Do you have too much time to yourself?
37:24
No, no, no. Because it's flexible, I mean, anyone can turn around at any time and say,
37:29
Look, I'm tired, I'm not going on this particular event or whatever.
37:33
No, no, definitely. And the fact that this time around we actually got a free afternoon.
37:38
Yeah. But people are choosing to go and do things anyway.
37:40
That's right. And I just want to add to something you were saying, going to the places,
37:44
something that's really enhanced it is the fact that Elyse is with us.
37:47
And so often she can open stuff out as you do, and open stuff out in
37:52
a way that you don't get in books.
37:55
You don't get listening to the audio guides, whatever.
37:58
It's been terrific. She's wonderful.
38:00
Kathleen: I mean, you learn so much. You don't feel like this is just fun.
38:03
It's so fun, and it fills your heart, and it fills your eyes,
38:07
and it's just so satisfying. But you learn so much, and you just make these little notes in your heart
38:13
and in your mind of, what do I want to follow up on when I get home?
38:16
Because, I now want to research so much more.
38:20
Annie Sargent: It fills you up with a desire to learn more, I guess.
38:24
Because Elyse has a wonderful way of explaining things.
38:29
I really couldn't do what she does, not in the Southwest.
38:32
Helena: You both both bring different gifts and that's why it's so successful.
38:36
Annie Sargent: Right, for me, I need to write a tour, I need to be in Paris, write
38:39
a tour, select everything, be calm and collected, and write my VoiceMap tours.
38:46
She is more of a performer, and someone who knows vast amounts as well.
38:53
It's not just a performance, but she really puts on a wonderful tour.
38:57
Kathleen: Yeah, she's great. Helena: And you're both very good at actually spotting if someone's feeling
39:03
a little bit, you know, out or something like that, I think that's another
39:08
thing that works well on the tour that no one's being smothered, but there's
39:12
a sense of everyone's cared about. Your well being is cared about.
39:15
Annie Sargent: I do care that everybody has a good time.
39:17
I mean, honestly, that's always my biggest fear, is somebody going to get hurt?
39:20
We haven't had anybody get hurt. We haven't had anybody get lost.
39:24
Really, it's so far so good. Knock on wood.
39:28
We hope that it continues. But I want to bring up something that happened to you
39:33
before the bootcamp started. You guys rented a car to go somewhere, and they talked you into an electric car, and
39:40
it didn't go great, and I have been saying on the podcast, please don't rent an
39:44
electric car if you are not used to this.
39:47
But I would like you to talk about it. Kathleen: Well, that's a good thing to tell people, because when we arrived
39:53
at the Toulouse airport, and of course at that point you're really tired
39:56
because you've had an overnight flight. And we worked with Enterprise.
40:01
The only car they had there at that time was an electric car.
40:05
So they kind of pushed it. Easy, easy, easy.
40:09
The battery has enough charge for you to ride to Lourdes, which is where we
40:12
went, and to get back, and no worries, no problems, just turn it on and go.
40:18
So we did. I was not the driver, I was the navigator.
40:21
First of all, it's a whole new car, different buttons, different everything.
40:25
So, it was an adjustment for sure, but then the roads were great.
40:29
You had told my driver, who was another bootcamper, so we were just two Americans
40:35
driving around in France, that the roads, the route was easy and it was.
40:40
But then on the way back, we kept looking at the amount of charge that was in the
40:45
battery and determined that we better get some electric, whatever it's called.
40:53
That was a bit of a problem because we didn't know how to do it, basically.
40:57
It can be faster, or it can be slower, and it took a while.
41:01
Again, you're usually kind of tired, especially at the
41:04
very beginning of the trip. We eventually succeeded, it got done, but I would, we would have been much happier
41:10
with it filling up with a tank of gas.
41:12
Annie Sargent: Yes, yes. So this is really important.
41:14
If you drive electric at home and you're used to all the different level, level
41:18
one, level two, level three charging, you understand this, you understand
41:22
that sometimes you need a card to start the charge, blah, blah, blah.
41:25
All of this is stuff you get to know when you drive an electric
41:28
car, but when you don't, it throws too much new stuff at you.
41:31
So please don't rent an electric car. I would've walked off.
41:34
And I recommend that you just say, Enterprise, I'm sorry I'm not taking
41:37
this car, I'm looking somewhere else.
41:40
Because it is just throwing too much newness at you.
41:44
For the time being, perhaps in another five years, more people
41:48
will have been, you know, will be familiar, but in 2024, please don't.
41:53
Kathleen: Yeah, good advice. Annie Sargent: Any advice you have for future bootcampers that didn't come up?
41:59
Helena: For future bootcampers? Yes, yes. One thing I did think, I'm not sure if that's the same question that you're
42:03
asking is, we actually still have free time on the bootcamp, which is fantastic.
42:09
So between classes or if people aren't doing classes.
42:12
I think, I did a fair amount of looking at what else was in Toulouse
42:16
that we weren't going to see. Yeah. So I made a point of going to the art museum, to Fondation Bomberg, certain
42:22
walks, and then this afternoon, Musée de la Résistance et de la Déportation.
42:27
And it might be an idea just to produce a list of other things you could be doing
42:33
in Toulouse but that we won't be doing. Annie Sargent: You know, Wendy also mentioned something like that, like
42:38
she would have liked to know about live music, concerts going on that week.
42:42
It didn't even occur to me. Helena: I think the live music and the concerts is probably quite
42:46
difficult because you've got to know the program and hand that over.
42:49
But more in terms of the places, like the art gallery, like a number
42:54
of the churches, for example, like by accident I discovered
42:57
Église Saint-Jérôme this morning. Annie Sargent: It doesn't look like a church from the outside.
43:01
Helena: Yeah, there's loads everywhere, but it's quite nice just to wander
43:03
in and yeah, just the atmosphere. Annie Sargent: It's a great church for concerts, that one.
43:07
Helena: And the Museum of the Resistance and the déportation is absolutely amazing.
43:11
Yeah. So, but that's just an idea because we're all capable of doing our own thing.
43:15
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Annie Sargent: Wonderful. Thank you so much ladies, for talking to me, and lovely
43:20
meeting you at the bootcamp. Helena: Thank you, and I really encourage anyone to come on
43:24
the bootcamp, yeah, yeah. Annie Sargent: Merci.
43:27
Au revoir. Kathleen: De rien, merci. Annie Sargent: Bienvenue, ladies.
43:32
Thank you for talking to me. We have three people now in this group.
43:35
Why don't you introduce yourselves? Let's start with you.
43:38
Susan: So my name is Susan Temple. I'm from Alabama and I'm a nurse.
43:42
Annie Sargent: You are a nurse. Okay, let me turn you up.
43:44
Susan Temple, you speak softly.
43:47
Julie Weiss: She does. Annie Sargent: How about you? Julie Weiss: I'm Julie Weiss.
43:50
I'm from Massachusetts. Annie Sargent: You're from Massachusetts.
43:53
And what sort of work did you do? Julie Weiss: I work in agriculture.
43:57
Annie Sargent: Oh, great. Fantastic. You grow things.
43:59
We like that. How about you? Cheryl Stewart: My name is Cheryl Stewart and I am retired now.
44:04
I was a technology project manager and I'm also from Massachusetts.
44:08
Annie Sargent: So, what was your favorite thing to do with the bootcamp?
44:13
Is there, do you have a favorite or was it all like, oh, I don't
44:16
know it's, what do you think? Susan: For me, it was visiting all of the older buildings, the older
44:23
churches, and learning about them.
44:25
Learning about the history of Toulouse was fascinating.
44:28
I've never been here before. Yeah, so being able to see this and experience it, live it.
44:34
Fantastic. Annie Sargent: So you hadn't been to Toulouse, but have
44:36
you visited France a bunch? Susan: Yes, I've been to Paris multiple times.
44:39
I've been to Alsace, I've been to Normandy, I've been to Brittany,
44:42
I've been to Aix-en-Provence, I've been down to Nice.
44:45
This is my first time in the southwest of France.
44:48
Annie Sargent: So you are definitely a francophile. Susan: Definitely a francophile.
44:51
But I'm not fluent in French. So that was an added benefit, was being able to come to the school.
44:56
Annie Sargent: All right, so you are taking the classes. How do you like that?
45:00
Is that working out well? Susan: I loved it.
45:02
I loved it. I did, I hate to admit it, I did Duolingo for many years.
45:07
Yeah. And so I can read a lot of French.
45:09
Yeah. I understood a lot of things when I read it or when people talk,
45:15
but I wanted to make sure it was coming out of my mouth right.
45:18
Yeah. And so this was a great segway.
45:22
Annie Sargent: Yes, doing Duolingo is great at teaching you to pick A, B, or C.
45:27
Beyond that you need more. How about you?
45:31
Julie Weiss: I think my favorite thing had to be the wine and cheese tasting
45:34
and visiting the winery for me with my agriculture, learning about how they're
45:39
doing it and you know, the organic and what they've done, and speaking with
45:43
the vintner herself was really cool.
45:46
Annie Sargent: Yes. Julie Weiss: And the cheeses she picked were incredible and the wine
45:49
was awesome and it was fascinating to learn, you know, they have 20 varietals,
45:53
and they, you know, age them uniquely, and then they put them together.
45:59
So, that was really, really interesting. And just such a beautiful spot.
46:03
I'm glad you picked something like that instead of some big,
46:05
huge, you know, very commercial.
46:09
Annie Sargent: Right, right. Most wineries in France are very much like Canto Perlic,
46:14
but that one has a lot of heart. Because it's a family run operation, and you get to talk to the people,
46:21
and they didn't just inherit this, they are making it, building it,
46:26
and that's a very different feeling. Julie Weiss: Absolutely.
46:28
Annie Sargent: Oh, I'm glad that you like that.
46:30
That's great. Cheryl Stewart: Well, since this is my first time in Toulouse, and
46:34
in the southwest of France, it's really hard for me to tell you which
46:39
thing I like the most, because I liked all of it probably equally.
46:43
I've been to France many times. I was a French major, and I lived in Nice, and I've traveled elsewhere,
46:50
but never to the southwest, ever.
46:52
So this was just such a delight to be able to explore the area, and all the
46:58
excursions we did, I loved all of them.
47:01
And I loved going back to school as well. I really, I liked the whole package.
47:06
Yeah, I really enjoyed going back to school. It made me feel young again.
47:09
It made me feel happy. It was a good confidence booster in being able to go into all the shops
47:16
and go around and speak French and not be, you know, self-conscious.
47:21
Annie Sargent: So, did you feel like there's, it was a good balance, enough
47:24
to do but not overwhelming, perhaps?
47:27
Susan: Yes, absolutely. I thought it was very well put together, having class in the morning, and off and
47:34
running in the afternoon to see things. Annie Sargent: Yeah, did you skip anything because you were unwell, or too tired?
47:40
Susan: No, I was going to hit every bit of it.
47:43
Annie Sargent: Some people skipped stuff because they weren't feeling right, you
47:45
know, which is fair as well, but I think, yeah, you three were at most things.
47:51
Yeah, everything. Julie Weiss: We got here a couple days early.
47:54
We got here on Thursday morning, which was really nice because we
47:58
got a little bit of lay of the land. We did Elyse's Toulouse walking tour, which was awesome.
48:04
Yeah. We took two afternoons, or an afternoon and a morning to do that, so we kind
48:09
of got a little lay of the land. I think it would have been hard to get here Friday and start right in on
48:14
Saturday, and I wish I had a couple days at the end because now I know
48:19
all the cool stuff and I want to go back, but I'm not going to have time.
48:22
But the pace of what you set up and all the different things, I
48:25
wouldn't have skipped anything. I'm happy to do it all.
48:30
Cheryl Stewart: Yeah, I agree. Totally agree. I thought that the variety of things that we did was fabulous, and I liked
48:38
having a little bit of time to myself, but I think that, as Julie just said,
48:42
the fact that we got here two days early gave us that opportunity to get the lay
48:47
of the land, to walk around a little bit, and then I was like, okay, I want
48:52
to see as much as we can see, and you gave us that opportunity to do that.
48:55
Right. Annie Sargent: So most people who go on a tour, they're going to go, you know,
48:58
two nights in Toulouse, two nights in Bordeaux, three nights in Loire Valley.
49:03
Here it's more of a, you stick around the area, you sleep in the same bed
49:08
every night, and you get to branch out, but without going too far, you know.
49:15
It's a style of a tour that's pretty hard to sell.
49:19
If I didn't have the podcast, I couldn't sell this. Because most people are used to, you know, and they go on a Rick
49:24
Steves tour, but it's going to be a tour of, you know, I don't know...
49:29
Julie Weiss: Six different towns. Annie Sargent: Six towns. You go all over the place.
49:32
And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think I would love to hear if you, have you done other tours?
49:40
What was it like? Susan: So I've done four different Viking river cruises.
49:44
Yes. Many of them in Europe. I've done different activities, like I did the Camino a couple of weeks ago.
49:53
I've done Cotswolds Walk in England, years ago.
49:57
I mean, I've done a lot of different things.
49:59
Those kind of experiences are great if you just want an introduction to an area.
50:06
Your kind of experience gets more than that.
50:10
To me, it introduces, when I do the, you know, the earlier kind, the Viking
50:14
river cruises and that, I've always said, it's to give you a taste of an area.
50:17
Yeah. Then you go back. And spend more time.
50:20
You figure out what it is you like and then you go back.
50:23
So, this is not my last time in Toulouse, I'll be back.
50:26
And I'll bring my family. Julie Weiss: It is amazing though that with short bus rides, you know,
50:31
two hours max, we got to see so many things using Toulouse as a base.
50:38
There really is a lot to see in this area.
50:42
And to have Elyse say, how many times did she say, this is the biggest
50:48
church, the widest, the tallest, the longest, you know, and all of those
50:53
are within a stone's throw of Toulouse.
50:56
Is pretty amazing. It's a great home base because you've got such variety of things to see
51:02
from here, which is pretty cool. Annie Sargent: Yes, that's why, you know, I'm tempted to do this year after year
51:09
in Toulouse because, well, first of all, we know the area, it's easy for me to
51:14
pick up a phone and say, you know, I am a local, I live here, I was born here,
51:19
but also there is a lot here, like every time, you know, cause when we meet and
51:24
discuss what we're going to include, believe it or not, we have to rule out a
51:28
lot of things, you know, because we just don't have, we only have so many days.
51:32
Cheryl Stewart: Yeah, and I think Toulouse itself has such rich history
51:36
and I thought that was so fascinating to hear about, you know, the city being
51:41
founded by the Romans and the history of the kings and just right here in this
51:46
capitol plaza, you don't even have to go very far to be enthralled in history.
51:52
I mean, that was fabulous, the day that we spent there.
51:54
Annie Sargent: Did you find good accommodations?
51:57
Did you like your choices? Julie Weiss: Yeah.
52:00
We did. We ended up rooming together.
52:04
We're in a two bedroom, two of us, are in a two bedroom apartment at Clément Adler.
52:11
And that just worked out fabulous for us.
52:13
And we didn't even know each other before this trip, and it worked out really great,
52:17
and now I have a really good friend, and it's just been, it's been wonderful.
52:21
And I feel like we've met enough other people that are wonderful
52:25
that I would want to continue to be in touch with over time.
52:29
Annie Sargent: Yeah. And did you participate in the Zooms?
52:32
I know you did. You two did. Were you in the zooms as well?
52:34
Susan: Was in one of the Zoom, so I was on the, I was on the
52:37
Camino the last zoom, sorry. Annie Sargent: Ah, yes, well, yes, you were busy.
52:42
You were doing something great as well.
52:44
I have cousins who today, they completed their, I think it's
52:49
their second stretch of the Camino.
52:52
So these are locals, they live in Nîmes but they do, every fall
52:57
they make a section of the Camino.
53:00
And they just finished. She was pretty happy because I think she was getting tired.
53:05
It's hard. Julie Weiss: Friday afternoon we did a nice, a really long bike ride four and a
53:10
half hours out into the foothills, or not foothills, but out into the countryside.
53:15
Yeah. So that took up an afternoon, but like, I'm not going to
53:17
make it to the how the machine.
53:20
the machines. And Halle de la Machine. And, there's like a couple other churches in Toulouse, I might have
53:25
wanted to go into but didn't have time.
53:28
We had a list going and we're trying to knock it off this
53:30
afternoon as much as we can. Annie Sargent: I think what I need to do is, for the next bootcamp, write
53:35
up a booklet about Toulouse that lists activities, favorite bars...
53:41
Julie Weiss: Favorite restaurants. And then you can have a list for people.
53:45
Not that we've had a bad meal, I can't say.
53:48
Right. Right. Cheryl Stewart: But there were some that stood out more than others.
53:52
Exactly, exactly. It always does.
53:54
That's how it works. And it's also a personal choice, I mean, you know.
53:59
So, would you recommend the bootcamp to specific types of people?
54:04
People who like to travel alone.
54:06
People travel in groups. Who is this good for?
54:09
Julie Weiss: I think everybody. I think there were some people who were alone, who you know, made friends, and
54:15
have kind of now traveled in a pack. Or there are some other people who came alone who have kind of been a little,
54:22
you know, stuck more to themselves, you know, don't necessarily go out
54:25
to eat with everyone, or whatever.
54:27
But there's also been some families and they've seemed like they've done, you
54:31
know, and be really having fun together, so I think if you came with a partner it
54:36
would be fun too, but it's been a great opportunity to meet a bunch of new people.
54:41
Annie Sargent: Right, right. Yeah, and we had a few, we had five or six return bootcampers who did
54:48
this last year, they did it again this year because they had a good
54:51
time, they wanted to do it again. They brought family members, all of them, because they wanted the
54:55
rest of the family to see this. Which is really, I mean, to me it means a lot, because it means it was successful.
55:02
Julie Weiss: That was indicative of how good it was going to be to us,
55:06
to me signing up, because if somebody wants to go again just a year later,
55:10
it must have been really awesome. You know?
55:13
Because there's so many trips you can do and so many places you can go.
55:18
But I could see Toulouse being in my future.
55:21
Annie Sargent: Did you like the feel of the city? Julie Weiss: Oh, totally.
55:24
It's a nice, small, manageable city.
55:28
Other than taking the bus from the airport, we haven't
55:31
done anything but walk. And we've seen, you know, we walked down to the Resistance Museum this afternoon.
55:38
It's totally manageable on foot, which is really nice.
55:41
Annie Sargent: There's a good vibe to the city. Speaker 35: Yeah, good energy.
55:45
Annie Sargent: I mean, if it's rainy and cold, fewer people are
55:48
out in the streets, and we've had some rain, but it's been okay.
55:51
Julie Weiss: Yeah, it's certainly better than what the forecast looked like.
55:54
It was going to be last week when we were packing.
55:56
Yes. It looked like it was going to kind of rain every single day.
55:59
But it hasn't. Annie Sargent: So it rains a little bit in the night or first thing in
56:02
the morning, and then we're okay most of the day, so, it's been fine.
56:06
But it's cooler than normal. I never thought I'd be wearing this shirt, you know...
56:10
Julie Weiss: But that's okay when you're walking around the city.
56:13
Yes. Yeah, you just dress for it.
56:16
Cheryl Stewart: We listened to what you said and we brought layers so we
56:19
could peel them off as we needed to.
56:22
But, no, I think the city is just a fun city and it's really walkable and
56:28
lots of things to look at, tons of shops, tons of boulangerie, and then
56:33
little restaurant-café type places.
56:36
It's just, whatever you feel like doing, I feel like there's something here for you.
56:40
If you feel like going to a museum or hanging out at the garden,
56:44
there's gardens and museums for you. If you feel like just walking around and window shopping, there's that.
56:50
Annie Sargent: Yes, yes. Did you do some shopping as well?
56:53
Cheryl Stewart: A little bit, but not a lot. Julie Weiss: I could stay another month and that would really get
56:58
me in trouble with shopping. I didn't do any clothes shopping, you know, but a lot of souvenirs
57:03
for gifts for friends and family.
57:06
Annie Sargent: Well, we have a couple of wonderful days coming up, so stay tuned, we'll have more.
57:09
Cheryl Stewart: Looking forward to it. Annie Sargent: Tomorrow's going to be a long day, though, because, you
57:13
know, we leave earlier than normal. We'll probably come back a little later than usual, but
57:18
then Saturday we'll take it easy.
57:22
All right. Well, thank you so much ladies for talking to me, and thank you for coming to the
57:26
bootcamp, it was lovely meeting you. Cheryl Stewart: Thanks, same here.
57:29
Au revoir. And thank you for everything.
57:31
Au revoir. Annie Sargent: Again, I want to thank my patrons for giving
57:41
back and supporting the show. Patreon supporters get new episodes as soon as they are ready and ads
57:47
free for as little as $2 a month.
57:51
If that sounds good to you, be like them, follow the link in the show notes.
57:55
And patrons get other exclusive rewards for doing that, you can
57:59
see them at patreon.com/JoinUs.
58:08
And a shout out this week to new patrons, Andrea Publow and Carol Crawford.
58:13
And to all my current patrons, it's wonderful to have you on board in the
58:17
community of travel enthusiasts and francophiles who keep this podcast going.
58:23
And to support Elyse, go to patreon.com/ElysArt.
58:31
If you've been a patron for a year or more and you're going to Paris, message
58:35
me within Patreon and I'll give you a free code of one of my VoiceMap tours.
58:40
This is also good for people who just joined, but select yearly support.
58:45
So hey, if you join as a yearly patron at the $5 level, you get two
58:49
months off, plus free tour code.
58:52
It's a good deal. Somebody left this review of my tour this week, this was about
58:57
my food tour around Les Halles. 'Great tour today.
59:00
Thank you. Yum'. Yes, on the food tour, I take you to some delicious places.
59:07
And unlike a regular food tour where you pay quite a lot just to be with a group,
59:12
in this food tour, you listen to me, I take you to all these places where you
59:16
can buy your own and have a little bit more substance, let's put it this way.
59:22
And don't forget, podcast listeners get a big discount for buying
59:26
these tours from my website.
59:28
Alright, what's happening in French politics this week?
59:32
We had a bit of a bombshell, didn't we?
59:35
Here's my take on that. This week has demonstrated that French people are totally capable
59:41
of falling for the siren song of populism, and politicians who tout
59:46
easy answers to complex questions.
59:49
That is not new. The Rassemblement National, or RN, has been gaining ground
59:55
steadily for the last 20 years.
59:57
France is not the only country where this is happening, in Europe, or
1:00:02
in the US, perhaps in other places where I don't follow the politics.
1:00:06
Will it have a big impact on your trip if you are visiting France on election day?
1:00:11
No. Elections in France are a quiet affair.
1:00:15
Elections take place on Sundays, usually at the elementary school,
1:00:20
or some other public building. Most polling places open at 8 AM and close at 8 PM.
1:00:27
Nothing unusual will happen because there's an election, other than
1:00:31
lots of people will go to the school building to vote that day.
1:00:35
I don't anticipate any commotion or disturbances of any sort.
1:00:41
Do not change your plans because of this political problem,
1:00:45
which I hope will get solved. Will this have a negative impact on the Olympics?
1:00:51
Well, hopefully not. Emmanuel Macron has said that, no, it won't.
1:00:55
So I trust him. The Minister of the Interior is in charge of security during the Olympics.
1:01:03
They've done a ton of work to get to the point where they are today.
1:01:08
He's likely to stay in place until after the Olympics.
1:01:12
I mean, there are no guarantees, but I don't think it's going to change anything.
1:01:17
The Minister of Sports, at this point, you know, I mean, they're cutting ribbons at
1:01:21
this point, it's all ready, ready, to go.
1:01:24
So, safety is the biggie, and I don't think anybody will take that
1:01:30
lightly, no matter who gets elected.
1:01:32
I think. I hope. For the parliamentarian elections coming up, we'll vote on Sunday,
1:01:38
June 30th, and Sunday, July 7th.
1:01:41
This is a two-round election, as per usual in France.
1:01:47
Normally, it takes place every five years.
1:01:50
And typically, it takes place a month after we vote for president because
1:01:55
with a new presidential term comes a new parliament, and then the new
1:01:59
parliament elects our new Senate.
1:02:03
This is totally different from what you have in the US of course.
1:02:07
Why are we having these elections now in the middle of Macron's term?
1:02:12
He's in place until 2027. There was no need to do any of this until 2027.
1:02:19
Per the French Constitution, French presidents can call for a
1:02:23
new election of the parliament. Typically, they do it if they feel that they cannot work with
1:02:29
the parliament that is in place.
1:02:31
That is something that Chirac did, for example.
1:02:35
Served him well. He lost. But this is not what is happening this time, because after making
1:02:42
alliances in 2022, Macron's party has a slim majority in the parliament.
1:02:50
He could have left this parliament run its course until 2027, but he decided not to.
1:02:57
Why? Well, there was a European election last Sunday, in which Macron's party
1:03:02
lost badly, and where the Rassemblement National, the RN, won by a bigger
1:03:09
margin than anyone anticipated.
1:03:12
These were elections for the European Parliament, where extreme right parties
1:03:17
always do well, because French people don't think that the European Parliament
1:03:22
matters very much, so this is their time to "scare" national politicians by
1:03:29
voting for the extreme right candidates.
1:03:32
This time, Macron called their bluff.
1:03:36
' You want the fascists in power? Let's see how you vote in the national elections in three weeks.'
1:03:44
It sounds like an insane gamble, but he's counting on something that's happened
1:03:49
in all elections where the extreme right got to the second round in France.
1:03:54
Enough of the people who vote for the RN on the first round vote for the
1:04:00
other candidate on the second round.
1:04:02
It's a way to express frustration without actually electing a nut job.
1:04:08
The danger with this is that it's become normal to have an extreme right candidate
1:04:13
wingnut, make it to the second round.
1:04:17
It normalizes their presence. And that's what Marine Le Pen is counting on.
1:04:22
After these European elections, the next time we were supposed to vote would have
1:04:27
been the presidential elections in 2027.
1:04:30
And if you extrapolate how much she's improved her standing in
1:04:34
subsequent elections, she would be the clear winner in 2027.
1:04:40
Macron did not see a way to stop that progression other
1:04:45
than by shocking the system.
1:04:47
And that's why he called for early elections.
1:04:51
In France, whoever has the majority in parliament gets to decide who
1:04:55
the prime minister is, and then the prime minister forms a government.
1:05:00
Marine Le Pen has already chosen her right hand man, Jordan Bardella, to get the
1:05:06
job, should her party win the election.
1:05:09
He's a popular guy despite the fact that he only has a high school
1:05:13
diploma, and dropped out of college. He started a geography degree but decided that was too hard.
1:05:19
He worked for his father's business for a short time, but that was too hard.
1:05:23
And as luck would have it, he courted Marine Le Pen's niece, which is
1:05:27
when he climbed up in the ranks of her party, and he's been getting
1:05:32
paid by the party ever since.
1:05:35
Macron is betting on a few things.
1:05:38
Number one, that people will rally to him because they don't want to see
1:05:43
the RN take the prime minister job.
1:05:46
I don't think that's going to happen, because he's really, really unpopular
1:05:52
for reasons I'll go into in a minute.
1:05:54
Number two, that the French left will not unite, just like they haven't been
1:05:59
able to unite in the last ten years.
1:06:02
It appears, and if that had happened, then you'd be left with a choice between
1:06:08
Marine Le Pen's party and Macron.
1:06:10
But it appears that the left is uniting indeed, and they will
1:06:17
present one candidate per district.
1:06:21
That's all you need to do. Just, if you can agree on one candidate per district on the first round,
1:06:27
then you have a way better chance to make it to the second round.
1:06:31
Number three, he was betting that if Bardella becomes prime minister, he
1:06:36
will do such a terrible job that people will realize it and will not elect
1:06:40
Marine Le Pen for president in 2027.
1:06:44
I am certain that Bardella would be a horrible prime minister, but I would not
1:06:49
bet on his voters changing their minds rather than sticking to their guns.
1:06:55
That's probably because I see how American elections are going.
1:06:58
Personally, I have voted for Macron's party since 2017, every election.
1:07:04
I would like his party to make it to the second round of the coming
1:07:08
election, but I doubt they will.
1:07:11
My guess is candidates from the left wing coalition, they are calling
1:07:15
themselves Front Populaire, Popular Front, which is a historical callback
1:07:22
to right after the second World War.
1:07:25
I think so, I think that Front Populaire will make it to the second round because
1:07:31
there are a lot of people who are left wing at heart, but there were so many left
1:07:37
wing parties that they just couldn't pick one, you know, they never won anything,
1:07:42
they fractured their vote too much. And also, of course, Marine Le Pen's party will definitely have a
1:07:48
candidate on the second round, in almost every district in France.
1:07:52
Perhaps a few big cities won't, but I mean, yeah, most places.
1:07:56
There is no chance in hell I would vote for the RN, not ever.
1:08:03
So I will vote for whoever is left standing against them in
1:08:07
my own district on July 7th.
1:08:09
Even if I don't like that person, or their party, or what they are
1:08:12
campaigning on, I don't care at this point, just want to stop those fascists.
1:08:20
So, perhaps it'll work, perhaps it won't.
1:08:23
It's really, really hard to tell. Now, let me tell you why Macron is so unpopular.
1:08:27
He raised retirement age by two years, unemployment benefits are getting
1:08:34
reduced as we speak, speed limits, and higher taxes on diesel fuel, that was
1:08:39
the gilets jaunes a few years back.
1:08:42
There was such an intense dislike of that, that they had to dial
1:08:46
it back for the most part. Farmers do not want to change their practices and they do not
1:08:52
accept that the way they grow things has more negative impact on
1:08:57
the environment than it needs to. And also taxes on farmers' diesel were about to go up, nobody wants the price
1:09:04
of diesel to change very much, you know. Inflation is very real in France and it's hitting people, especially people
1:09:11
on low salaries, very, very badly.
1:09:14
Higher interest rates for business, startups, for buying a house, for
1:09:19
buying a car, for anything is, you know, interest rates are terrible.
1:09:24
Perhaps they'll start coming down now, but we're not there yet.
1:09:27
There are major difficulties for housing, especially for
1:09:31
low income people and students. There is the feeling that rich people evade taxes and are
1:09:37
not paying their fair share. It's a fact that healthcare providers are not paid well in France, and we
1:09:44
don't have enough of them, with an aging population, that's a problem.
1:09:48
Teachers are not well paid in France, and it's getting harder
1:09:52
and harder to recruit them. That is a job I would never do, so blessings on teachers everywhere.
1:09:59
Parents feel that their kids are not safe in school.
1:10:02
We've had several specific instances of kids getting beaten to death by peers
1:10:09
over the last few months, over really silly issues, and they haven't found
1:10:14
a way to make that stop so far, and of course that hits people in the heart.
1:10:19
The Justice Department keeps fumbling cases that they should be winning.
1:10:23
There's a guy who escaped from jail just a month ago.
1:10:25
He killed two prison guards in the process.
1:10:27
He is still on the loose. They found nine cell phones in his cell, because somehow, they haven't found a way
1:10:35
to scramble cell signals in prisons, or prevent drones from flying over prisons
1:10:40
and dropping whatever the inmates want. This is so maddening, I don't even know what to say, you know?
1:10:45
Then there's also the fact that there are a lot of EU regulations, as well
1:10:49
as French judges that protect migrants.
1:10:51
Perhaps migrants should be protected, you know, I don't really have an opinion, one
1:10:55
way or the other on that, it's certainly very sad to see what's happening.
1:10:59
But Macron's government, they're not doing a good job convincing
1:11:03
people that these people need help, and they probably should.
1:11:06
There are a lot of single issue voters in France, just like there are in the US.
1:11:11
There are people who say, I don't want to be forced to drive an electric car.
1:11:14
I don't want to pay more for medications.
1:11:16
Anytime they raise the price of, you know, we have great, great
1:11:20
coverage of medications in France. We hardly pay anything for them, but you increase the price by a euro
1:11:26
and oh, it's the end of the world. People say I'm against EU regulations on cheese, on milk, on tomatoes, whatever.
1:11:31
They all have their button thing. The global economy creates too much competition for regular people who
1:11:37
don't really have the ability to go into higher education, because let's
1:11:41
face it, these days, if you don't have a lot of knowledge and a very good
1:11:46
degree, you're going to be stuck in jobs that don't pay very much, okay?
1:11:52
That's just how it is. There are a lot of people also who say, we need to try something new.
1:11:56
Traditional parties, they just bicker between themselves, they get nothing done.
1:12:00
And I don't think the RN will do any better, but okay.
1:12:05
There's not enough investigation on, because we have a lot of
1:12:09
towns and whole areas that have had RN mayors for a long time.
1:12:15
Do these cities have the perfect life that they were promised?
1:12:20
No, they don't. No, they don't. But you don't hear about that very much in the French press,
1:12:26
and we need to hear more of that. People don't want to be told that they don't understand history or are stupid.
1:12:33
Yeah, I don't want to hear that either. And climate change is making a lot of people really, really nervous,
1:12:40
and we see that because many of them get fixated on one thing that
1:12:46
they think is the magic bullet. So they say, Oh, if we'd all just stop flying, if we'd all stop eating
1:12:52
meat, or if we'd all go around on a bicycle, that would fix the world.
1:12:57
Well, it's not. We need to do a little bit of everything.
1:13:00
But this year the temperatures are a little cooler, it's
1:13:02
been rainier, so perhaps...
1:13:06
we know it'll spike again, obviously.
1:13:09
And it's also a fact that things are going in the right direction when it comes to
1:13:13
reducing our emissions in France, but you wouldn't know it by listening to the news.
1:13:18
So these are some of the reasons why Macron is extremely unpopular, people have
1:13:24
a visceral reaction to him, the same way.
1:13:28
You know, it's like the love-hate relationship, they loved him when
1:13:31
they first saw him, and now they hate him for the same reasons.
1:13:35
And it's really, really hard to get people who get a nasty reaction to him,
1:13:41
to consider the things that he's done that are going in the right direction.
1:13:45
Anyway. So I'm going to end this the same way I started it.
1:13:48
French people are not immune to stupid political siren songs from populists,
1:13:53
and the one country that seems to be getting away from this is Spain.
1:13:56
Spain, they had Franco for 40 years, of course, so they know exactly
1:14:00
what this means, but, uh, yeah. Normally, I try to stay away from politics, but this week I really couldn't.
1:14:05
My thanks to podcast editors Anne and Cristian Cotovan
1:14:08
who produced the transcripts. Next week on the podcast, an episode about adventures and misadventures in
1:14:16
the City of Light, with Paula Barnes.
1:14:20
That was interesting. That was a really, really fun conversation.
1:14:23
I think you will like it. And remember, patrons get an ad-free version of this episode
1:14:29
for as little as $2 a month. Click on the link in the show notes of this episode to be like them.
1:14:35
Thank you so much for listening and I hope you join me next time so we
1:14:39
can look around France together. Au revoir.
1:14:43
The Join Us in France travel podcast is written, hosted, and
1:14:46
produced by Annie Sargent and Copyright 2024 by AddictedToFrance.
1:14:52
It is released under a Creative Commons, attribution, non-commercial,
1:14:57
no derivatives license.
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