0:02

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman

0:04

podcast. I'm Bail of Jesse Thorne.

0:06

This week, cease and de-list. Abby

0:09

brings the case against her husband,

0:12

Tyler. Tyler loves to make top

0:14

five lists about anything and everything.

0:17

He especially loves quizzing strangers about

0:19

their top five lists. He says

0:22

he's just trying to get to

0:24

know people. Abby says

0:26

he's number one annoying with a

0:28

bullet. Who's right? Who's wrong?

0:30

Only one can decide. Please rise as

0:32

Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and

0:34

presents an obscure cultural reference. One, any

0:36

song by the mountain goats. Two, any

0:39

quote from Augustus and I, Claudius. Three,

0:41

the third man theme by Anton Carus.

0:43

Four, the rainbow connection is sung by

0:45

Tom Waits. Five, I

0:47

was thinking we could take care of it right here

0:49

in Brainerd. Bail of Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

0:52

Please, Abby and Tyler, please rise and raise your

0:54

right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth,

0:56

the whole truth and nothing but the truth so

0:59

help you God or whatever? I do. Yes.

1:02

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's

1:04

ruling despite the fact that he's not in my

1:07

top five cast members of the movie, Baby Mama?

1:10

Wow. Yes. There's a

1:12

lot of good Maura Tierney's in that. I

1:14

love Maura Tierney. She's my favorite. Jason

1:17

Manzoukis is in it. It's fair. Will

1:20

Forte. Okay, I got it. I know that

1:22

they're under the phone. Okay, Steve Martin is

1:24

in it. There's a lot of great people in

1:26

Baby Mama. You're great in Baby Mama. Amy

1:28

Poehler, you didn't even mention Amy Poehler. Is she in the

1:30

top five? Didn't even know. Amy Poehler's

1:32

out of the top five. Had to make room for

1:34

Manzoukis. Okay, Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

1:39

Can I even? Because I think I'm dead. I

1:42

mean, there's a lot of great people in

1:45

Baby Mama. You're great in Baby Mama. Many

1:47

times I've mentioned to you how great you

1:49

are in Baby Mama. It's true, you really

1:51

are. You're a lot. I'm not

1:53

even in the top 30 in that film. I know.

1:55

I know. I don't

1:57

even like my uterus. That's

1:59

a... That's an obscure cultural reference to Baby

2:02

Mama. But speaking of obscure cultural references,

2:04

Abby and Tyler, you may be seated for an immediate summary

2:06

judgment on one of your favors. Can

2:08

either of you name the piece of culture that I

2:10

did reference as I entered the

2:12

courtroom? Abby, what's

2:14

your guess? High fidelity.

2:17

Interesting. High fidelity. Film

2:19

or novel? The film. Oh, all

2:22

right. I'll

2:24

put that into the guest book by

2:27

writing it in the air with my left hand. As

2:30

you can see, if you're watching us on video right

2:32

now on YouTube or anywhere else where you see videos,

2:34

Tyler, what's your guess? My guess

2:36

is Colonel Gentlemen's list of things

2:38

not to do from season five,

2:40

episode nine of The Venture

2:43

Brothers. I really,

2:45

really love this guess. Hang

2:48

on. I'm going to go the

2:50

extra mile and pretend to write this one down

2:52

on paper. In general, I

2:54

love any Venture Brothers guest that cites

2:56

chapter and verse. Just

2:58

the idea that a Venture Brothers

3:00

fan doesn't just say Venture Brothers,

3:02

but... Wow. It's

3:05

on a list. What a couple

3:07

of guesses. What a couple of guesses.

3:09

All of them are wrong. Oh. I

3:12

mean, I got to give Tyler credit for

3:15

pandering to my great

3:17

love of The Venture Brothers. Great

3:20

show. Go Team Venture.

3:22

And I got to give Abby credit for making a very

3:25

reasonable guess, which is

3:27

high fidelity. The movie, and I was

3:30

inclined to make a quote from

3:32

high fidelity, the movie. I actually had a quote

3:35

lined up from high fidelity, the novel

3:37

that it's based on by Nick Hornby.

3:40

Did I do and say these things? Yes, I did. Are

3:43

there mitigating circumstances? Not really. And

3:46

before you judge, although you have probably already done

3:48

so, go ahead and write down the four worst

3:50

things you've done to a partner, even if, especially

3:52

if your partner doesn't know about them. Don't

3:54

dress things up or try to explain them.

3:56

Just write them down in a list in

3:58

the plainest language possible. finished? Okay,

4:01

so who's the a-hole now? That was what I

4:03

was gonna go with. From the novel

4:05

high fidelity. Of course, both the novel and

4:08

the film are based on a person who

4:10

obsessively makes top five lists of the top

4:12

five albums, top five songs about

4:14

XYZ or whatever it is. Anyway,

4:17

you're wrong though Abby, sorry. Because what

4:19

I was referencing was my rough

4:22

top five obscure cultural reference

4:24

categories over the

4:27

years. I've quoted many songs by

4:29

the mountain goats. I feel like

4:31

I've quoted for my Claudius. I don't know, I think about

4:33

it a lot. I've certainly talked about the third man a lot,

4:35

but I don't think I've ever quoted the theme. Maybe I've sung

4:37

it and maybe I'll sing it at the end

4:39

of this episode. We love to hear

4:41

sung Zither. Sing Zither, that's

4:43

what I say. Maybe I'll sing Zither in the

4:45

style of Tom Waits, another great obscure cultural reference

4:48

point and the fifth one or the first,

4:50

depending on how you're counting. I

4:52

was thinking we could take care of it right here

4:54

in Brainerd, which was a movie quote. That's what I

4:56

remember as being the first obscure

4:59

cultural reference way back when

5:01

it started at all.

5:03

That quote was from, it

5:05

was from Fargo. Now, who seeks justice in this

5:07

court? Is it you, Abby? It is. Abby,

5:10

you take issue with Tyler's top five lists,

5:12

correct? I do, yes. Yeah. And Tyler,

5:14

what kind of top fives are we talking about? What are

5:16

your what are your top five

5:18

top fives? So my top five

5:21

top fives, probably the one that really

5:23

broke Abby was when I referenced

5:26

my top like five to 10

5:29

booty coltales in the Midwest. Five

5:34

to ten. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes

5:37

and it gets worse and

5:39

worse as it goes, probably.

5:41

Then number two is probably

5:43

things in movies that should

5:46

not make me hungry, but in fact, make

5:48

me very hungry. So number one on that,

5:50

for example, is the T-Rex eating the goat

5:53

in both Jurassic Park and Jurassic World is

5:55

a delightful crunch at the end of

5:58

it's looking up. That's just as delightful. Another

6:00

one would be like, uh, Tempo

6:02

Po, uh, with the Yakuza seafood scene,

6:05

if you've seen that film. Not

6:07

only did I see Tempo Po, I worked it at the Coolidge

6:09

Corner movie theater I saw about 19 times. That

6:12

movie rules. What a great movie. I've seen

6:15

the movie all the way through at least

6:17

two or three times, and I saw the

6:19

beginning and end countless times. That scene makes

6:21

me also very hungry. Um, Jesse,

6:23

this one might be for you. Uh, Abby's a big

6:25

sports fan. So to bond on this, we were sitting,

6:27

it was almost like going to a sporting event with

6:29

my dad. I was like, oh, who do you think

6:31

the like most snuggly baseball player is? Because,

6:34

you know, when I'm a big baseball

6:36

fan but watching them, you're like, sometimes

6:39

you just like when they give them

6:41

hugs, they look like they're so safe and

6:43

comfortable. And so I started listing off top

6:46

five snuggly baseball players. Mm hmm. And

6:49

who are they? So

6:51

my number one is William Damas. Um,

6:53

for the Milwaukee Brewers, it's a little bit of a

6:56

favoritism, but he like gives big hugs.

6:58

He's always celebrating. He has a beautiful

7:00

smile. I would have guessed that if

7:02

you went with a hometown favorite, it

7:04

would have been Rowdy Tellez, former Milwaukee

7:06

Brewers first baseman Rowdy Tellez. So

7:09

Rowdy Tellez is up there. He is actually

7:11

number two. Um, okay. Wait

7:17

a minute. Give me some of the top five

7:20

boutique hotels in the Midwest. Yeah. So the number

7:22

one for me is the Hueyne Hotel in Minneapolis,

7:24

St. Paul. I feel like you should be counting

7:26

down from five. Okay. Counting down

7:28

from five? I mean, I'm, yeah, I'm dinging you

7:30

for your technique anyway. Number five,

7:33

Hueyne Hotel. Number

7:35

four, the Charmont in La Crosse,

7:37

Wisconsin. Number three,

7:39

the Certainly Hotel in Des Moines. And

7:42

then this one, number four is a

7:44

really special one just for us is

7:46

Huey's Tackle Shop in Sturgeon Bay in

7:49

northern Wisconsin. That's a hotel? Well,

7:52

it's a tackle shop mixed with like a

7:54

motel. All right. But there's something,

7:56

you know, they were so excited to have people

7:58

there. But, you know, there's

8:00

also a special sign there that says there is

8:03

a fine, like a $250 fine

8:05

for cleaning your fish in there. And that's

8:07

just like something truly unique to, you know,

8:09

Northern Wisconsin. I should have that sign in

8:11

every hotel room, honestly. I think the surest

8:13

sign that you're in a good hotel is

8:15

when they're excited someone came. And

8:20

you are in the Midwest. In fact, we find you in

8:22

Milwaukee. Can

8:24

you name the top five places in Milwaukee

8:26

that I have been? The

8:28

buildings that I've been in in Milwaukee. Top

8:30

five. Pabst Theater. Yep, that's

8:32

one. That's definitely one. Let's

8:35

see. Fister Hotel. Fister Hotel is definitely one.

8:37

Haunted Fister Hotel. Have you been there?

8:40

I don't remember where I stayed. So let's say yes, let's do.

8:42

Okay. Honestly, I can only think of

8:44

four. The Milwaukee Art

8:46

Museum. No. Really?

8:49

Okay. Milwaukee Public Museum? No

8:51

museums. Public Market, though. Oh, Public

8:53

Market. I've been to the Public Market. That's three.

8:56

Four. Ballroom. Oh,

8:58

that's a good one. And five. Number,

9:01

which is actually number one with a laser

9:03

beam directly from James Bond's 1970s wristwatch.

9:07

Safe House. Oh. Oh. Nice.

9:12

You know what I'm talking about. The weird

9:14

dad Cold War bar. Yep. Yeah,

9:17

absolutely. Oh, this is

9:19

fun. Abby, are you married to Tyler? I

9:21

am. Yes. Can I marry

9:24

him? It might take some work off my hands. Yeah.

9:26

I mean, you're married a lot. Why are you annoyed by the top five? I

9:30

think they have a place, like

9:32

bonding with people who also like top five. Like, this

9:34

seems to have been really good for you

9:37

guys in your relationship. Yeah. Yeah, weird dudes.

9:40

Other weird dudes. I think it can

9:42

come off as a little, not aggressive,

9:45

but restraining if you're meeting someone new

9:47

who doesn't like ranking things

9:49

that they like. And this

9:51

has happened in your life, right? Tyler has... Yes.

9:55

Yes. I used it as

9:57

a tool for making connections with my

9:59

coworkers. friends that he hasn't

10:01

met before. How do they

10:03

react when he whips out the top fives? Some

10:06

people are on board with it, and I'm fine

10:08

with him continuing to make lists with

10:10

them. Some people are

10:13

unnerved by it, and it's

10:16

never gone terribly wrong. I just

10:18

think it can sometimes not

10:21

be the jumpstart to a friendship that he's like... What

10:23

do you do for a career? I'm an actuary. Oh,

10:25

really? And your co-workers are actuaries?

10:28

Most of them, yeah. I mean, because what you're

10:30

doing is you're analyzing risk, right? Yeah. But

10:33

in Tyler's conversation, I

10:35

could see how an actuary might be a little bit

10:37

flummoxed. Yes. The

10:40

worst example I can think

10:42

of was someone was talking to him

10:44

who doesn't really like video games, but she

10:46

had one that she enjoyed and was trying

10:48

to kind of bond over that. Mm-hmm. And

10:51

he asked something like... Top five

10:53

1990s dinosaur games. The

10:56

way you finished that sentence made me flashback immediately

10:58

to when Harry met Sally. It was like an

11:00

inter... one of those interstitials of the married couples

11:02

finishing each other's sentences. Oh. I

11:05

loved it. All right.

11:07

And what was her response? It

11:09

was a blank pause for a few

11:11

seconds, followed by, I don't understand the

11:13

question. So to be fair,

11:15

in this case, she was actively trying

11:17

to remember what video games

11:20

she was trying to play, and I was

11:22

trying to share with her, like, here's my top

11:24

five. Does this look... Do any of these ring

11:27

about? Do you have, like, some that you remember?

11:29

Uh, okay. You were using it more as a prompt

11:32

than as a quiz. How did

11:34

she... How did your coworker take it, though, Abby? She

11:37

was really confused and

11:39

didn't really want to continue the

11:42

video game talk anymore. And they're

11:44

friends now, but it took the introduction

11:46

of her now husband really liking Tyler for her

11:48

to kind of come around on the fact that

11:50

he's a good guy and can have normal conversations

11:52

with people. This is one of those moments where

11:54

you thought you were friends with someone the whole

11:56

time, and then you... Sorry. You Just... Learned

12:00

learned that happened at this moment.

12:02

It's death. She. Just decided

12:05

to be friends with you yesterday. Finally! How

12:07

long ago was it the you that the top

12:09

five. Nineties. Dinosaur video games came

12:11

up. When. Was this. Event:

12:15

Seven. Or eight years ago I I is

12:17

pretty soon after started full time here. You

12:19

thought you were pounds on their nine and

12:21

it took awhile. But. What

12:23

are your top? Five Ninety's a Dinosaur

12:26

games Tyler so trust has to be.

12:28

The truck series has to be up

12:30

there I'm I'm not arguing out at

12:32

armed and there are some Jurassic Park

12:34

games that are kind of modern that

12:36

have ridiculous way whether time like the

12:38

haven't seen the movie Jurassic Park yet

12:40

so it's sort of like he has

12:42

a description of what we're going to

12:44

make make a video game from it.

12:46

and so there's a slight weird games

12:48

were just collecting eggs for no reason

12:50

sir arm and then there's also like

12:52

the Discovery Channel. Com like make thought

12:54

dinosaur paths and then you get like a

12:56

false really model and back in the nineties

12:58

I was like mind blowing for me. So.

13:01

Far this sorry this is a long

13:03

time ago. sometimes I remember be felt

13:05

five. Or I get

13:07

this. is it. This top five

13:09

is not a top five. This

13:11

is that. This is a nerd

13:13

challenge. This is a name. Five

13:16

Nineties Dinosaur games. This is not

13:18

what are your five favorite dinosaur

13:20

games. By. The Way Yoshi

13:22

is a dinosaur and he's and

13:24

lots of good games. Abby.

13:26

I'm sorry about this way I am. I

13:28

just tested months ago. Steer the ship back

13:31

to you. I. Apologize, Why

13:33

think death he landed on one of my

13:35

concerns. Which is that it's you. It. prompt,

13:38

Someone unsuspecting li with a top five list

13:40

rak and get tough fight less you're gonna

13:42

get some random assortment of stuff they remember.

13:44

So. I think the premises is

13:47

skewed. Yeah, if I may, I

13:49

do feel like I've found a way to

13:51

volver to the point where it's nice to

13:53

rats. And more kind of. Natural.

13:56

ah it doesn't involve wine quite a bit

13:58

of wine and zone So this

14:00

involves kidnapping me and putting me in your

14:02

basement and feeding me a bunch of gin

14:05

and then demanding my top

14:07

five characters in Oddworld Abe's Odyssey.

14:13

You ever play Oddworld Abe's Odyssey? I have.

14:16

Yeah, of course. Abby,

14:18

you ever play Oddworld Abe's Odyssey? No

14:21

idea what you're talking about. No, I know. I'm sorry.

14:23

I really apologize for all of this. You're

14:29

listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm Bailiff

14:32

Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John

14:34

Hodgman podcast always brought to you by

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18:53

So does this happen at parties,

18:55

at mixers? What's the situation where

18:58

this happens, Abby? Yeah, it

19:00

would usually be at like a happy hour. And

19:02

why are you doing this, Tyler? You

19:05

know, so I came

19:07

to Milwaukee. We both went

19:09

to the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire and Abby graduated

19:11

a year ahead of me. And

19:14

so I followed her to Milwaukee. And by the time

19:16

she was here, she had all these like work friends.

19:19

And I was just starting to put this in

19:21

a nonprofit area. And so when we're going to

19:23

all these parties at her work, I

19:26

was just trying to find something that could

19:28

connect with people. And I'm kind of hard

19:30

to socialize with actuaries. Because

19:32

at that point in time, they're all they're talking

19:34

about is how many exams they've passed. So

19:37

and I don't know what the exams are. They're

19:39

all letters and numbers. So it's like

19:41

we passed Q on September 4. How

19:44

are you doing on ABT or something

19:46

along those lines? You're

19:48

aware you're sitting next to an actuary right now,

19:50

right? Yes, yes, sir. Yes. And

19:53

you're married to this person. Yes. Abby,

19:55

how do you feel about this actuary slander that's coming at

19:57

you? It hurts. I

20:03

he's not wrong, especially

20:05

early in our careers when so much of our

20:08

workday was focused on passing exams. That was kind of what

20:10

we talked about and that wasn't fair to him. But

20:12

we're all adults now with other

20:15

hobbies and pets and kids and other things

20:17

to talk about. So I don't know that

20:20

that is still a rationale that he can. Tyler, to be

20:22

generous to you, would it be fair to say that you

20:24

felt like a little bit of an outsider at

20:26

these group mingles, these work mingles? Yeah,

20:29

it would be. Yeah.

20:31

You're trying to make yourself comfortable

20:33

by bringing up topics that you're interested in and

20:36

understand. So usually how

20:38

it goes is I'm trying to look for

20:40

like a keyword or something like I don't

20:43

like doing lists unless I know

20:45

the people kind of well that

20:47

I'm interested in. I usually try to do

20:49

as much as possible. I don't know a

20:51

person's sort of lists that come up in

20:53

conversation. Or if someone is an actuary, what

20:56

are your top five surprisingly common causes of

20:58

death? That was actually

21:00

one of the first things I asked her when we

21:02

first started Dayne. She didn't think we were Dayne at

21:04

that point, but I did. So

21:08

yeah, that was one of the first things. So

21:10

you asked Abby on one of

21:12

your early dates from your point of view, top

21:15

five causes of death. Is that right?

21:18

Yeah, surprisingly common. Surprisingly common. All right,

21:20

Abby, let's hear it. More

21:23

than one person has been killed when

21:25

they got hit in the head by a tractor. Same

21:28

thing with turtles being hit

21:30

on the head by a tractor.

21:33

All right, I'm

21:35

going to say right now, Abby, the tractor was

21:37

a good lead off. Okay. You know

21:39

what I mean? Because I was like, it doesn't surprise me

21:41

that people are getting hit in the head with tractors, but

21:44

turtles, you really got me there. Maybe turtles is

21:46

the place to stop. Top two. Those

21:48

are the top two. And this didn't feel

21:50

like fun dating banter to you? Do

21:53

you know, it didn't. It

21:55

felt like I was being quizzed in one

21:57

of my classes. And

21:59

Tyler mentioned that you didn't think you were on a date

22:01

at all? Is this when you decided this is not a date? There

22:06

was a period where he thought if we met for lunch

22:08

at the cafeteria that counted as a date. And

22:10

I was informed later that we had actually been dating for

22:12

a while. Abby, does he continue

22:14

to ask you top fives? Yes. How

22:18

often does this come up? It's

22:20

really when he's bored and I'm not

22:22

bored and he would like me to stop doing what I

22:25

find engaging and do what he finds

22:27

engaging. What kinds of things do

22:29

you find engaging? Well, we go to a lot

22:31

of baseball games. Oh. And

22:33

I really enjoy that. And he enjoys it for

22:35

a little while, but then needs some other stimulation.

22:38

I enjoy the snacks. What's the top five baseball

22:40

snacks? So I

22:43

guess I don't know if we could talk. I don't drink,

22:45

but one of the things that's really nice at our stadium

22:47

is you can get a baseball bat full of beer. That

22:50

is really nice. It's a real bonding

22:52

moment. That's sweet. We

22:56

get giant German style

22:58

pretzels here. Cheese

23:00

curds, fried cheese curds, which is fantastic. We

23:03

also have a really good sort of like Milwaukee

23:06

style pizza place. So

23:08

like what's Milwaukee style pizza? So

23:11

it's basically like graham cracker crust,

23:13

a very paper thin crust. And

23:15

we put cheese all the way to the

23:18

edge where there's basically no like crust at

23:20

all. Not

23:23

actual graham cracker. No, no, no. Not

23:25

a sweet crust. Okay. Not like a

23:27

key lime pie. Let's ask

23:30

Tyler. Tyler, is it actually a key lime pie? Is

23:34

that a Milwaukee style pizza? No,

23:37

not quite. The graham cracker crust,

23:39

key lime pie filling, and then the cheese

23:41

goes right to the edge. It goes right

23:43

to the edge. Abby,

23:46

what baseball team are you watching over

23:48

there in the Milwaukee

23:50

Brewers? Of course. One

23:53

of the nicest logos in sports for sure. It's

23:55

an M and a B that take the form

23:57

of a baseball glove. That's a little visual puzzle.

23:59

Exactly. One of the top five sports

24:01

logos in the world, I would say. I did think

24:04

about that. Well,

24:06

we all know what the number one is, and I'll quiz you on it

24:08

later to see if you win. But

24:10

Abby doesn't enjoy when you do this,

24:12

Tyler, but you have provided some evidence

24:15

that suggests the people in your D&D group

24:17

really enjoy it. Correct. These

24:20

are people you play Dungeons and Dragons with,

24:22

right? Correct, yes. All right. And

24:24

we have some testimonials here. Austin,

24:27

aka Armit the

24:29

Half-Orc, says, people want to

24:31

know the best, not the blandest. Nothing

24:33

is truly known until it's documented and peer-reviewed,

24:36

and such lists allow for both. That's

24:39

some Half-Orc speak if I've ever heard one. Matt,

24:41

who plays Zierach, or Zierach, how do

24:43

you pronounce this character's name? He pronounces

24:45

it Czierach. Say it again.

24:47

Czierach. Czierach, okay. Who

24:50

is, what, a Polish paladin? Yeah,

24:52

I think kind of, pretty much. That's pretty...

24:55

That's right. Lists offer a point of

24:57

comparison to understand the relativity of a subject within

24:59

the list, exclamation point. Jake,

25:02

who plays Falk, Greenleaf, that's gotta

25:04

be an elf, right? That is

25:06

actually a fallborg? It's like

25:08

a cow man, basically. A fakeborg?

25:10

A fallborg? A fallborg. Okay.

25:13

Someone's gonna yell at me. Is

25:15

this Wisconsin-only rule? No. The

25:18

cow man? Nope, but they were all very,

25:20

very excited about it to show it off,

25:22

yeah. Wisconsin, of course, is the birthplace

25:24

of Dungeons and Dragons. Lake

25:27

Geneva, Wisconsin is where it was first played. Gary

25:29

Gygax's hometown, one of the top

25:31

five towns for inventing role-playing games.

25:33

So it sounds like in between

25:36

moves in your Dungeons

25:38

and Dragons group, you're all making top

25:40

five lists, is that right? Yeah, so

25:42

we have, there's different

25:44

types of lists that we make. So

25:47

they do sort of, if someone's late,

25:49

we do about 15 minutes of tier

25:51

lists. So for

25:53

example, I'm just gonna put one out there.

25:55

It starts with S as the top, S-A-B-C-D-F.

26:00

So just to clarify for listeners, you're talking about

26:02

tiers. T-I-E-R. Correct. Something

26:04

is top tier is S tier. Yes. This is

26:06

some, I think this is some

26:09

video game parlance that's made its way into

26:11

common language now, right? I believe it came

26:13

from like Japanese sort of style games, yes.

26:15

Right. And then A, B, C tier are

26:18

decreasing below S, right? So S is

26:20

the top tier. So S is like

26:22

Dictown. A is like

26:24

Venture Brothers. Whoa, wow. I

26:27

really like Dictown. Thank you. I

26:30

appreciate the plug. But

26:32

you know, I'm friends with those Venture Brothers. I do.

26:34

You all, you were really good in that as well.

26:36

I really like your card. Thank you. All

26:38

right. I think I've heard everything I need to. I'm going to make my decision.

26:42

And the category is animated shows. S

26:44

tier is Dictown. A is Venture

26:47

Brothers. B is what? B,

26:50

I would say could be like a

26:52

South Park, right? It's not for everyone.

26:55

And it can have, when you're looking back,

26:57

like I think Venture

27:00

Brothers has like a kind of timeless quality

27:02

to it. I think they don't do too

27:04

many references that like age out. But South

27:06

Park is very like their whole thing is

27:08

like very time to date, timely. Right, right.

27:11

And Dictown only makes references to my

27:13

weird only childhood, which I love. And

27:16

Abby, do I understand correctly that you led

27:18

Tyler to this Dungeons and Dragons group somehow?

27:21

Or encouraged him to play? Encouraged him. He

27:23

knew the people already. Right. You had heard

27:25

that there was a local Dungeons and Dragons

27:27

group where everyone liked making lists. It's

27:31

actually not local. They all live in different states.

27:34

So it's a nice way for them to keep in touch. And

27:37

I thought maybe he would channel his

27:39

list making there. And

27:41

that has not been the case. Abby, how

27:43

often when Tyler asks

27:46

for a top five, is

27:49

he asking for a top five

27:51

that anyone can participate in easily?

27:53

And how often is he asking

27:56

for what I would characterize as

27:58

a sort of nerd? challenge.

28:01

What are your top five nineties

28:03

dinosaur video games? Probably

28:05

a pretty even split because

28:08

Tyler is a big fan of nerd culture, like

28:10

video games and movies and obscure movies, things

28:12

like that. But he's also into cooking.

28:15

So he'll often ask people like, like

28:17

pizza from your neck of the woods is a pretty

28:19

common one. Or what do you

28:22

like to cook at home? So I think it's an even

28:24

mix. It's not just him

28:26

trying to reflect glory upon himself

28:29

for having these preloaded top five

28:31

lists. It's very rarely. He's

28:34

only doing that half the time. Apparently it's

28:36

an even mix. When

28:39

you're not around other people, uh, Tyler,

28:42

how often do you think about top five lists?

28:45

I don't often think about like Troy

28:48

or whatever most guys are apparently supposed to

28:50

be thinking of. I think of random

28:53

lists. That's my life. Half

28:55

the time or 75% of the time I

28:58

think of them quite a bit. I

29:00

think it's just sort of stemmed

29:03

from like, if I'm

29:05

not able to have like a conversation or keep

29:07

up with people in conversations, I try to listen.

29:09

But if it's sort of focused

29:11

in something that was really not meant for me, I'll

29:14

start thinking about things like that. And I'm also

29:16

thinking about it. Quietly to yourself. Yeah.

29:18

If there's an opening or if I know

29:20

like, for example, her friend's husband's really into

29:22

it too. If he's there and he's also

29:25

bored, I'll talk with him about it. Um,

29:28

so let me understand when you're in a

29:30

social function and people are talking about something

29:33

that you don't immediately relate to or understand,

29:36

you'll tune out and start thinking of top five

29:38

lists and then look for a chance to insert

29:40

them to the conversation. No, not, not quite like

29:42

that. More like, kind of,

29:44

that's kind of what you said. Yeah. Yeah.

29:46

If I could correct, I guess it's more

29:48

like gossip. Abby has like

29:50

a lot of work gospel at this

29:53

point. That's kind of replaced the sort

29:55

of tests. Tyler, be quiet.

29:57

Abby. Yeah. Give me, give me some of the

29:59

actuary. What's happening? Yeah,

30:03

what's the table tea? If I

30:05

promise you that we

30:08

will edit it out by

30:11

playing some music from Abe's Odyssey while

30:13

you're giving me one piece of gossip.

30:15

Okay. And we won't

30:17

release it, but I want

30:19

to hear one piece of good gossip so

30:21

I can evaluate how good this gossip is. Okay. Is

30:24

that reasonable? All right. Play some

30:26

music from Abe's Odyssey. I don't care if we have

30:28

the rights. Play it. Well.

30:39

Wait, why is it? No, no, we can't ask any questions.

30:42

We can't reveal anything. It's

30:45

just incredible, though. That was pretty good, right?

30:47

That one was. I

30:50

heard Jennifer Marmer gasp like a fish

30:52

out of water. I

30:54

gasped, too. Wow. I don't even

30:56

want to reveal the person's name. But let

30:58

me just say, if I were trying to come up with

31:00

the name of a character in a fictional story

31:03

who was an actuary, I couldn't have thought of a

31:05

better name than this person's name. This

31:07

is like the dumbest reason to get fired. Pretty

31:09

much actuary. You're not going to get fired. No

31:11

one will ever hear this goss. It's a good

31:13

goss, though. I don't know,

31:15

Tyler. Why don't you just get up in the goss?

31:18

That sounds fun. You know, it's

31:20

because I'm so... She does sometimes say,

31:22

like, you cannot tell anyone about this.

31:24

Yeah, but if it's... I'm

31:26

talking about in a social function when you're hanging

31:29

with the actuaries. I mean, I

31:32

sometimes do. Or simply ask questions about their

31:34

work and attempt to understand it. I

31:36

do. It's sort of one of those situations

31:38

where I'll say, like, oh, what's up with this person? And they'll be like,

31:40

oh, he's the... Like... You

31:43

better not reveal anything that gets that he fired

31:45

right now. Let's just call him the

31:47

custodian because that's not someone they ever talk about.

31:49

Tell you what, we'll play the music again. Go

31:52

ahead. All right. Can you say names,

31:54

then? Yeah, go for it. Yeah. And

32:16

then they'll continue on with the conversation kind of

32:18

thing. All right, we're out of

32:20

the music now. Your goss was

32:22

not as good as Abby's goss, sorry. It's not my

32:24

goss. I know, but maybe you should

32:26

make it your goss. You know what I mean? What

32:29

I heard in that redacted

32:32

bit of gossip was that Tyler

32:35

is trying to participate in the gossip,

32:37

and what he needs to understand

32:39

what's going on is being elided.

32:42

He's being poo-pooed. They're saying, I'll

32:44

talk about that with you later

32:46

right now. We're moving too fast

32:48

through this gossip sea, and he's

32:50

being left behind and is clinging

32:53

to a buoy. Yeah, Jesse's

32:55

right. I mean, we can't reveal

32:58

what Tyler said, Abby, but

33:00

he did end the story with him

33:02

asking a question and you saying to him, we'll

33:04

talk about that later. My question to

33:06

you is, do you talk about it later with him? Yeah,

33:09

well, yeah, I'll catch him up in the car right home. But

33:11

you don't work to include him in the

33:14

conversation as it occurs. Yeah,

33:16

in those kinds of examples, no,

33:19

I probably wouldn't stop the conversation and catch him up on

33:21

everything. Do you feel excluded,

33:24

Tyler? No, you know, because

33:26

I want to see my wife happy. What

33:29

are your top five moods of your wife? Whiskey

33:34

is my number one. It's not a mood.

33:36

Oh, it's a mood. Fair

33:38

enough. You're right. I take

33:40

it. I stand corrected. I rarely say

33:42

it, but you're right. Abby, do you think that Tyler needs an

33:45

in-person friend group? Wow,

33:47

probably. Does he have

33:49

one in Milwaukee? I mean, we know he's got

33:51

a Zoom D&D pulse. Not

33:53

a group. There are

33:55

individuals. And

33:58

there are often couple friends. the two of

34:00

us hanging out with two other people. That

34:03

one husband really likes him, right? Yes.

34:06

So the other husband makes lists quite a bit, and

34:08

he made a list of friends that

34:10

he enjoys playing video games with, and Tyler was

34:12

number one on the list. Oh, phew. I

34:16

thought the story was gonna go someplace else.

34:18

If I were to ban Tyler from doing

34:20

top fives at parties, how

34:22

would you suggest that he get to know people?

34:24

I mean, he can ask follow-up questions, like if

34:26

someone says, I played

34:28

the sport game, I really liked, he can

34:31

ask, what other types of board games

34:33

do you like? He just can't

34:35

initiate. Or I would prefer if it's just less structured.

34:38

When you originally submitted the dispute, you said that

34:40

this was a quote, cute way, end

34:43

quote for Tyler to bond

34:45

with people. First of all, you have to admit Tyler's

34:47

pretty cute. Yeah, he's pretty cute.

34:49

He's pretty cute. When does it get not

34:51

cute? Well, I think it's cute when he's doing it

34:53

with people who have already agreed to making lists with

34:57

him in the future. It's less cute

34:59

when he is surprised to someone who is

35:01

unprepared. Has anyone in your work group

35:03

or otherwise has been ambushed by one of Tyler's top

35:05

fives ever complained to you about it privately? You

35:08

don't have to say the name. No, they wouldn't

35:10

complain to me about it. It's more just like

35:12

in the moment, you can tell they weren't prepared

35:14

and don't really feel like engaging in this sort

35:16

of conversation. When he

35:19

goes into a top five with one of

35:21

your work colleagues, how do

35:23

you feel? Worried? Not

35:26

that it's gonna go poorly, but

35:29

that it's gonna be awkward and

35:32

no one's gonna really enjoy where it went and

35:34

Tyler's not gonna feel happy about it in the car

35:37

at home. How badly has it ever gone?

35:41

What's the worst case scenario? The worst

35:43

case was just the person who flat out said, I don't

35:45

understand the question and then didn't engage

35:47

any further. But

35:50

that's one data point. As

35:52

an actuary, you have to set

35:54

that aside as an outlier. It's

35:56

not statistically relevant, it seems to me. Sorry.

36:00

outlier in that she was so direct about it, but

36:02

there have been plenty of other occasions where people

36:04

have sort of gave him maybe one or two

36:06

and then mentally wandered off.

36:09

And this is more defining to you? No.

36:12

I just think it is hampering his

36:15

relationship building with them. And

36:18

you would like me to order that Tyler not

36:20

do top fives with you? Yes. How

36:23

often does it come up in your

36:25

lives? I would estimate once a month.

36:28

Tyler, if I were to rule in your favor, what would you

36:30

have me rule? You

36:32

know, I think it's important. I

36:34

agree with Abby with sort of like having it

36:36

be like a more natural thing and know that

36:39

people want to do sort of lists with me.

36:41

I can agree to that. I do. Abby

36:43

is kind of keeps cards

36:45

close to her chest sometimes about her day.

36:48

So I sometimes use these lists like if

36:50

we go on like a vacation, right? Like

36:53

to sort of get more out of her

36:55

because she's hard to read sometimes. So

36:58

I use these things to sort of like get

37:00

a quick way of getting some ideas

37:02

out of how something went or if

37:04

she enjoys something or learned something new

37:06

about her. So if you want to

37:08

know like how her day was, you

37:11

say, what are the

37:13

top five paranoid thrillers starring Robert Redford?

37:18

Or do you just ask her questions about her day?

37:21

I guess for the daily things, I'd ask more

37:23

about her day, but bigger. Yeah.

37:26

Yeah. OK. I see a point. Yeah. Ask her about

37:28

her day. Abby, do you

37:30

feel that Tyler wants more chat from you

37:32

than you feel comfortable giving? Like

37:35

is there an introvert, extrovert? Like some people like

37:37

more silence in a couple. You know what I

37:39

mean? Like and some people can't

37:41

stand silence. Yeah,

37:45

I think that's certainly an element

37:47

of it. What are the top five

37:49

ways that it affects your relationship? What

37:54

are your top five feelings about this? You've

37:57

probably picked up that I'm the quieter one here and

37:59

Tyler. take a story and run with it to the point

38:01

where most people would have

38:03

wanted to stop talking a while ago. And

38:09

when Tyler gets going on a topic in

38:12

mixed company, how do you feel? Good. I

38:14

think it's, you know, if he's talking about

38:16

something that he's really excited about, I

38:19

think people are pretty engaged by it. He's

38:21

very funny. He's a really charming person. I

38:23

agree with you. I would like

38:25

to marry him if anything happens

38:27

in either of our marriages. I'd

38:29

like him at the very least to give me a rowdy to

38:31

lead style hug. He's a little

38:34

short for that, but he could try. So

38:37

in the ideal ruling that you submitted, you

38:39

had two parts. One is that Tyler not

38:41

be allowed to do top fives with

38:43

your coworkers and that also he'd

38:46

not be allowed to do top fives with you. Is

38:49

one of those more important than the other? So

38:51

he's allowed to do top five lists with me. I

38:54

like hearing about his. Right. That's the price of marriage.

38:56

I do not want to be asked for

38:59

my top five lists. Ever. Yeah,

39:01

I think ever. If I were to ban

39:03

top five requests from you or your coworkers,

39:05

which would you pick? Which is more important

39:07

to you? Probably me, but

39:10

I feel like a jerk for

39:12

saying it. That's okay. I'm just, you know,

39:14

it's a, I mean, it's a false dichotomy.

39:17

I could, I could order both. I'm just trying to

39:19

get at the heart of what, where

39:21

you are most bothered by this top five. I would

39:23

say I'm more annoyed when I'm asked to provide my

39:25

top five list than I am worried

39:28

when he asks the coworker for theirs. Abby,

39:31

would you be willing to provide your

39:34

husband with information about

39:36

your feelings and experiences in

39:38

a non list format? I

39:40

think I could accommodate that. Yeah. Tyler, to

39:42

get a real world sense of how this works in

39:44

your relationship, before I go

39:47

into my chambers, would you please ask Abby

39:50

for a top five list of your choosing, perhaps

39:52

for the last time in your relationship? I'm

39:55

so curious what this is going to be. I

39:58

guess top five. things

40:00

our cats have done that have really

40:03

bugged you. Oh that's

40:06

why do I hate our cats? No

40:08

well I'll allow it.

40:13

It's a challenging one.

40:15

They've been keeping me up for

40:17

days now. Yeah. Is that the really the

40:19

one you want to ask Heather? The one

40:22

you feel safest asking? Safest one. Yeah.

40:25

What's the five things you love about my brother

40:27

the most? You

40:30

know what Abby? Don't answer. I'll be back

40:32

in a moment. I'm gonna go into my chambers and

40:34

think it over. I'll be back in all of my verdict. Please

40:37

rise as Judge John Hodgman exits

40:39

the courtroom. Tyler

40:43

how are you feeling about your chances? People

40:46

always say this on this podcast but I was

40:49

feeling really good and now I'm

40:51

a little bit nervous. What are the

40:53

top five reasons you're nervous? Number

40:56

one my family often debated at the

40:58

dinner table rather than talking about our

41:00

day so I have a fear

41:02

of sort of debate. The

41:05

next one is Abby is was like a

41:07

debate champion in high school and is very

41:10

good at it still so

41:12

I came in a little bit nervous about

41:14

that. The next one would

41:16

probably be Abby's very charming. Oftentimes

41:19

when people meet her who are my friends

41:21

are like oh you should

41:23

you should bring Abby around to hang out

41:25

which kind of feels weird sometimes. The

41:29

final one is I always kind of want what's what's

41:32

best for her so

41:35

or like what she wants so like if

41:37

I win and she

41:39

has to keep doing this stuff I'm worried

41:41

about the thought of her like having to

41:43

engage with me on things that she does

41:45

not like actively doing. Abby

41:47

how are you feeling about your chances? I am

41:49

also nervous. I feel like Tyler

41:51

and the judge hit it off more

41:54

than I expected. I'm also

41:56

worried I'm gonna get fired but that's

41:58

fine I'm sure it won't happen. Did

42:00

you have reason to believe previously

42:03

that the judge might like

42:05

lists? Like, for

42:07

example, they wrote a list

42:10

of 500 hobo names in

42:12

his first book. That had crossed my mind,

42:14

too. Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman

42:16

has to say about all this when we come back in just a

42:18

moment. I'm

42:22

Emily Fleming. And I'm Jordan Morris. We're real

42:24

comedy writers. And real friends.

42:27

And real cheapskates. We say,

42:29

why subscribe to expensive streaming

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services when you can stream

42:33

tons of insane movies online

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for free. Yeah, as

42:38

long as you're fine with 25 randomly

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42:43

our podcast, Free With Ads, we review

42:45

streaming movies from the darkest corner of

42:47

the Internet's bargain bin. From

42:49

the good to the weird to the

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holy, look at Van Dam's big ol'

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butt. Free With Ads, a

42:55

free podcast about free movies that's worth the

42:57

price of admission. Every Tuesday

43:00

on maximumfund.org or your favorite

43:02

pod spot. Hallelujah!

43:07

Hello! Welcome, everyone. Step right up.

43:10

We're going to heal you. We are

43:12

the healers, Ross and Carrie. Yes, yes. You

43:14

there. You look like you're upset. Come

43:16

up here. Yes, you are healed

43:18

because you've listened to our podcast. Yes. Have

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you been having trouble with demons? Are you

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We have the solution. It is to listen to Oh No,

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43:31

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claims. We show up so

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you don't have to. Find us on maximumfund.org.

43:38

We won't actually heal you. Judge

43:49

Hodgman, we're taking a break from the case. I

43:51

know that you're headed out on the JOCO cruise

43:53

soon. Yes, Jesse. I

43:55

am packing my steamer trunk as

43:58

we speak. Thank you. including

44:00

my Scrabble set and my

44:02

Yasi set and my Monopoly

44:04

deal set, because those are three

44:06

games that I enjoy playing. And

44:09

if you have not yet booked your cabin

44:11

on the Joko Cruise, go to jococruise.com, check

44:15

out with code HODGEMAN24. They

44:18

will alert me that this has happened.

44:21

And if you wish, I offer

44:23

my services as an opponent to you in

44:25

Scrabble or those other games in the Crow's

44:27

Nest on a night of your

44:29

choosing. And don't be intimidated. I

44:32

haven't played Scrabble meaningfully in years,

44:35

but I love playing the game and it would be fun to

44:37

play with you. And one way to make

44:39

sure that you have time to do that with me on the

44:41

cruise, go to jococruise.com, use

44:44

code HODGEMAN24. And even

44:46

if you're not interested in playing Scrabble with me,

44:49

there's going to be so much fun for you on this

44:51

cruise. Our friend Jean Grey is

44:53

going to be on the cruise. Our fellow

44:56

Max Funster, Janet Varney, is going to be

44:58

performing on the cruise. We

45:00

have so many talented musicians, comics,

45:04

writers. Go to jococruise.com

45:06

and see the lineup. It's really amazing. And

45:08

it's been years since I've been on the

45:11

cruise. I'm really excited to get back there

45:13

and see old friends and meet new ones.

45:16

Maybe some of you over at the Scrabble table up there at the

45:18

Crow's Nest at the top of the ship. That's

45:20

jococruise.com, code HODGEMAN24. Jesse

45:23

Thorn, what do you have got going on? Well,

45:25

I'm just keeping an eye on the Max Fun

45:27

Drive coming just around the corner in mid-March. Yeah.

45:31

I'll tell you, this has been

45:33

a year of watching a lot

45:35

of media ventures go out of

45:37

business, not just in the podcast

45:39

space, but across all of publishing.

45:42

They say it's a time of contraction in

45:45

the biz of show. And

45:47

I can't emphasize enough how incredible it

45:49

is that Max Fun has been held

45:52

aloft by our membership. So

45:56

Max Fun Drive is a celebration of our

45:58

members, a celebration of becoming. becoming a member

46:00

of Maximum Fun. It's going to be a

46:02

really great time. We're going to have special

46:04

bonus episodes and stuff. I

46:06

know me and Jordan are going to do

46:09

a live show called The Cavalcade of Stars

46:11

that will be available streaming. Look,

46:14

I'm not saying Lisa Loeb is going to be there,

46:16

but I am saying I'm going to email Lisa Loeb

46:18

to ask if she'll be there. That's

46:21

my promise to you. I

46:23

will send an email to Lisa Loeb, my

46:26

number one crush from middle school, and

46:29

ask her if she will come. She might, because

46:31

she comes to stuff. She's

46:33

a cool lady. I've

46:35

said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm

46:37

also going to say it right now. We are

46:39

so grateful to all of you

46:41

members of Maximum Fun for your continued support over

46:44

the years. I cannot overstate how much it means

46:46

to me. Just please

46:48

circle your calendar. March

46:50

18 starts two weeks of the MaxFun

46:53

drive. This is the time of year

46:55

when we not only offer you some

46:57

of the wildest bonus

46:59

episodes and special guests and have all kinds

47:02

of fun crossovers and everything else, but it's

47:04

also the time of year when we ask

47:06

you to go ahead and become a member

47:08

if you're not one or to upgrade your

47:10

membership if you're able to. It all happens

47:12

at maximumfun.org. Join, but

47:14

just circle that URL and circle

47:17

March 18 and get ready to

47:19

join in the MaxFun drive. It's

47:22

Max and Fun and Drive. Come be

47:24

a part of it. Let's get back to the case. Please

47:28

rise as Judge John Haughtren reenters the

47:30

courtroom and presents his verdict. Normally,

47:33

I don't start a verdict with a question,

47:35

but I received some information right

47:37

before I went into my chambers, and then I

47:39

received some information through the paper-thin

47:41

walls of my chambers while you were talking

47:43

to Jesse Tyler. So I just wanted to

47:45

say, why did you want to ask Abby

47:48

top five reasons she loves

47:50

your brother? Why is that a complicated

47:52

question for you? They're both

47:55

very, they're the two people I consider

47:57

the most intelligent people. ever

48:00

met. And I respect them both

48:02

a lot, but they butt

48:04

heads like crazy sometimes. And

48:08

my brother lives out in California now. Are you

48:10

anxious that Abby and your brother don't get along

48:12

as well as you wish they would? Yes. Right.

48:15

And so you're asking the question, top five

48:18

things to maybe foster some reflection on her

48:20

part about what a good duty is or

48:22

something? I would like to know that

48:24

there's something there, you know, because it's kind

48:27

of almost the only family. So I

48:30

want to make sure that we can like maintain

48:32

that relationship to keep going and visiting

48:34

him throughout our lifetime. Okay,

48:37

that's something for you two to discuss between.

48:39

That's a heavy thing for you two to

48:41

discuss between each other. But I'm, I'm grateful

48:43

to you for being so open about

48:45

it. And I think that it helps me with

48:47

regard to my verdict. And now it's verdict time. The thing that

48:50

I heard from the papers

48:52

and walls of my non-existent chambers was

48:55

that you, you were feeling anxious

48:57

about this because you grew up and

48:59

at the dinner table, your family would

49:01

debate topics rather than simply

49:04

talk about their day. That's

49:07

exactly what you are doing now, right?

49:09

You know, the top fives are

49:12

an expression of enthusiasm on your part

49:14

and also of curiosity, but they are

49:16

framed in a very arbitrary

49:19

and remote, debaty way.

49:21

Like, rather than simply

49:23

say, what is your favorite kind of door?

49:25

Have you ever thought about it? Instead,

49:28

you might ask someone to name their top

49:30

five doors. And I think what Abby

49:33

is feeling is that there is an

49:35

implicit challenge in there. That

49:39

if you, if you ask for the

49:41

top five or you offer your top

49:43

five, there is an invitation to debate.

49:46

Or there is a worry that maybe

49:48

I'll say something and you'll go wrong.

49:50

There is in the top five an

49:52

implicit challenge that my taste is

49:54

perhaps more interesting than yours, or you're not going

49:56

to answer the right top five for me. And

49:59

I think that's it. that it puts

50:01

and keeps people at a distance. And

50:04

your family, if I were to guess, and

50:07

I probably am guessing correctly, like your

50:09

family's willingness to debate topics of

50:12

the dinner table rather than speak

50:14

plainly about their lives and their

50:17

feelings, that is keeping everybody

50:19

at a safe distance from their own emotions as

50:21

well to a certain degree. And

50:23

perhaps maybe you've inherited that a little bit and

50:25

you feel more comfortable talking with people about hypothetical

50:28

situations or lists of cultural references or whatever it

50:31

is, than simply saying like, I don't know what

50:33

an actuary does and I'm married to one. Can

50:35

you explain it to me? Or

50:38

whatever it might be, you know.

50:40

And I think that that's something that you

50:42

should think about. I think you

50:44

are a genuinely curious person. And for

50:46

someone who thinks in terms of lists

50:48

like me, it is a delight to

50:51

talk to you. This is a prompt that really,

50:53

really works for me in terms of sparking conversation.

50:56

But I think you've observed that this

50:58

is a prompt that sort

51:01

of chills conversation or makes

51:04

Abby feel like she's

51:07

being quizzed on something or

51:09

her actuary friends feel

51:11

confused. And

51:14

for that reason, while

51:16

I find you very, very

51:18

charming and fun, and my offer

51:20

of marriage stands, which is

51:23

really irresponsible. And

51:25

I would love to hang out with you in

51:27

Milwaukee and go to Safe House and play U-Kur

51:30

and twist or whatever else you get

51:32

up to in Milwaukee. Eat

51:35

cheese foods. Eat cheese foods and talk

51:37

about the top five Milwaukeeans

51:40

of all time or whatever. John

51:42

Gerda. Okay.

51:45

I would say that you

51:47

should develop a

51:51

way to express your curiosity in

51:53

a less ranked

51:55

way. And I think,

51:58

I mean, you pointed it out. Everyone's

52:00

kind of got a favorite pizza. Like

52:03

it's okay to simply say, instead of what

52:05

are your top five pizzas, like what's

52:08

the best pizza you ever had? Do

52:11

you remember a time? Now,

52:13

you can't just be out of the

52:15

clear blue here. You know what I mean? It can't

52:18

be like, oh hi, we were all talking about what's happening at the

52:21

state Capitol Day. What's your best

52:23

pizza? You know, it can't be that. I mean,

52:25

really the best conversation starter that I've ever heard

52:27

in my life is the one that

52:29

was prompted to me by my wonderful

52:32

and departed, unfortunately,

52:34

writing teacher Lee K. Abbott. What

52:36

did you do today? The truth is everyone wants to talk

52:39

about their work. Everyone wants to talk about what they did today.

52:42

And you'll get a lot further by asking questions

52:44

than demanding answers or

52:46

trying to steer the conversation to

52:49

90s dinosaur video games when honestly, you

52:51

didn't even have a good five list there.

52:54

You were really struggling when I asked you. Like

52:56

if you're going to ask that question, you better be you better

52:58

be locked and loaded with an incredible

53:00

list of video games featuring dinosaurs from the

53:02

90s. So I

53:04

am finding in favor of

53:07

Abby in this case. I'm not

53:09

Ben. You can't ask her top

53:11

fives anymore. Sorry. She

53:13

just doesn't like it. Just doesn't work. Understood.

53:16

And, you know, when the topic is serious,

53:18

says, is there a

53:20

way that you and my brother can find common ground

53:23

because I hope you guys really can care about each

53:25

other and get along. It's

53:27

best to ask that that way rather

53:30

than say, what's your top five reasons you love my

53:32

brother? Yeah. Yeah.

53:35

I mean, I knew what you're going for. You were put on the

53:37

spot and you felt it right. I put you on the spot and

53:40

you don't want to put people putting people on the spot

53:42

is no fun for them. That really revealed

53:44

a lot for me. Great. So

53:47

I hope you won't take this too personally when I

53:49

grab a big dabble over here and I say I

53:51

find an Abby's favor. Take it

53:53

easy on the top fives. Make it only a top one

53:55

at best. This is the sound of a gavel. That is

53:58

Zenmon Hills tonight. Judge

54:04

John Hodgman rules, that is all. Please

54:06

rise as Judge John Hodgman exits

54:08

the courtroom. Tyler, you sound

54:11

chastened. Yeah, it's, it's

54:14

going to be hard. It's something I think I

54:17

wasn't prepared to do entirely cut

54:19

it off like that, but I

54:21

can live with making Abby's Day a little more

54:23

easy with less quizzing

54:26

on lists for sure. What

54:28

are your top five Chris Rock movies? Oh,

54:30

I don't know if I have any Chris Rock movies

54:32

are my top five. Top five,

54:35

which is a Chris Rock movie. It's called

54:38

Top Five. This case

54:40

is about a guy who

54:43

insists on making others give their

54:45

top five lists. And he's not

54:47

even familiar with the movie Top

54:49

Five. I'm sorry. Abby,

54:51

how are you feeling? Good. Yeah,

54:55

I know that's great. Very happy.

54:57

I think this will help Tyler's

55:01

real non-combative personality shine and he'll

55:03

make a lot more friends that way. Top

55:06

five MCs dead or alive. And

55:09

how about this top five grocery stores

55:11

in the midwest? No, we're doing top

55:13

five MCs dead or alive. The subject

55:15

of the top five lists in the

55:17

Chris Rock movie, Top Five. Oh,

55:20

you lost me. I don't have any.

55:22

Wow. Abby Tyler, thanks for

55:24

joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank

55:27

you. Thanks. Been great. Another

55:31

Judge John Hodgman cases in the books

55:33

in just a moment. We'll have swift

55:35

justice, but first our thanks to Redditor

55:38

Bobopolis5000 for naming

55:40

this week's episode cease

55:42

and de-list join the

55:44

conversation about. I

55:47

would not hide by that robot companion. Bobopolis5000.

55:51

Bobopolis5000 play Huey Lewis

55:53

and the news sports.

55:57

Join the conversation, suggest names for

55:59

episodes. out other

56:01

people's suggestions at

56:04

maximumfun.reddit.com. Evidence and

56:06

photos from our

56:08

program are posted on Instagram

56:10

at Judge John Hodgman. We're

56:13

also on TikTok and YouTube now

56:15

at Judge John Hodgman Pod. And

56:17

when we say we're on YouTube,

56:19

full episodes of the program, if

56:21

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56:23

you can do it on YouTube

56:26

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56:28

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56:30

go follow us. We wear our

56:32

outfits. We do

56:34

little dances for your entertainment. See, look, we're

56:37

doing a little dance. Bob Opple is 5,000.

56:42

If you're only listening, you didn't get to see it. Go

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subscribe to the YouTube channel. Thank

56:46

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56:48

Podcasts for the five-star rating. They say this about

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56:52

they also have an insightful perspective on

56:54

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56:59

I look forward to listening every

57:01

week. Thank you, 627. If

57:04

you're listening to us on Apple Podcasts,

57:07

do rate and review the program. It

57:09

helps us climb up those charts and

57:11

find new listeners. Judge John

57:13

Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorn

57:16

and John Hodgman, this episode engineered

57:18

by Dusty Weiss at

57:20

Podcamp Media in Milwaukee,

57:22

Wisconsin. Great studio, great engineer.

57:25

Thank you. Great city. Indeed.

57:28

The podcast is edited by A.J.

57:30

McKeon. Our video editor is Daniel

57:32

Spear. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

57:35

Did you know this, John? At the

57:38

ballpark in Milwaukee. Yeah. They

57:40

have a mascot race. Yeah.

57:43

But the mascots are all different types

57:45

of sausages. Yeah. That

57:47

you can get at the ballpark

57:50

in Milwaukee. Did you notice

57:52

that none of those sausages were

57:54

cited as top ballpark snacks? Whoa.

57:57

Blew me away. Interesting. Blew me away.

58:00

away. I thought we didn't leave it.

58:03

Not even one of the running mascot

58:05

sausages was listed, huh? Like, I didn't

58:08

expect to hear chorizo, but I figured at the

58:10

very least I would hear brats. Polish or bratwurst.

58:12

Yeah, unbelievable. Really surprising to me. I look forward

58:14

to going to... I'd love to go to a

58:16

baseball. People say that's one of the best places

58:18

to go to the baseball game in the country.

58:21

Let's go do a show in Milwaukee and then

58:23

we'll go to a baseball game, here's

58:26

swift justice where we answer small

58:28

disputes with quick judgment. Giles

58:31

asks, are pandas actually

58:33

just people wearing costumes? I

58:35

say yes, based on the

58:37

attached photo. My

58:40

wife and most others disagree. You

58:43

know, every now and then I'm like, should I look at

58:45

these swift justice questions before they come up so I can

58:47

prepare something? And this is

58:49

the time where I remember, no, it's better

58:52

to be surprised by a picture

58:54

of pandas. What are they playing, dominoes

58:56

or mahjong or what? Yeah,

58:58

it looks like... I mean, it's basically... They're

59:00

sitting around a table. It's a photograph of

59:02

dogs playing poker, only it's

59:05

a real photograph and it's real pandas

59:07

or possibly just people wearing costumes. I'm

59:11

gonna look, I'm gonna go with Giles on this

59:13

one. Just like all birds

59:15

are robot surveillance cameras and

59:17

are not real. All pandas are people and humans. Prove

59:20

me wrong. Speaking of

59:23

Bobopolis 5000, we need

59:25

your robot cases, we need your droid cases,

59:27

we need your science fiction cases. Actually, take

59:29

it back. Droids are part of

59:31

the Star Wars franchise, which is a

59:33

fantasy franchise. But we did speculative fiction.

59:35

I'm just trying to honor my own

59:37

settled law on the New York Times

59:39

Magazine. They got me a lot of

59:41

letters, but okay. Any kind

59:43

of science fiction, speculative fiction,

59:46

indeed any kind of fantasy.

59:49

Did someone in your life want to watch

59:51

the movie Serenity without having seen Firefly at

59:53

all? Wow. Did the Jetsons stop

59:55

being sci-fi when they crossed over with the

59:57

Flintstones? Time travel, I think that has to

59:59

be. Well, I don't know. Do you

1:00:01

have a sneaking suspicion that your friend might be

1:00:03

an android, but you don't have the right kind

1:00:05

of test to prove it? Submit your cases about

1:00:08

sci-fi to maximumfun.org/JJHO. And by

1:00:10

sci-fi, I mean SF or

1:00:12

science fiction. We don't say

1:00:14

sci-fi. maximumfun.org/JJHO. And of course,

1:00:17

we're eager to hear about

1:00:19

all your disputes, not just

1:00:21

ones about SF.

1:00:24

I'm eager to hear your ones about SF in addition

1:00:26

to your ones about SF, because

1:00:29

I'll settle them. It

1:00:32

doesn't matter the subject. No case too

1:00:34

big, too small. maximumfun.org/JJHO. And we'll talk

1:00:36

to you next time on the Judge

1:00:38

John Hodgman podcast. Maximum

1:00:43

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