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1:17

And we are back with an all

1:19

new episode of Keep It. I

1:22

am zero time Grammy winner. I

1:24

am Addison the third. I

1:26

am Best New Artist 1987 winner, Louis Fertile. That's

1:30

a reference to my girl Jody Watley. Thought we'd start

1:32

there. No,

1:35

she's 87. 88 is Tracy Chapman.

1:37

Once upon a time I knew this really well. Well,

1:40

you know what? Tracy Chapman

1:42

was at the Grammys this

1:44

weekend. And I feel like she is

1:47

one of the people that we're

1:49

talking about the most. This is our Grammys

1:51

episode, by the way. So

1:53

we're going to be getting into the ceremony,

1:55

all the things that people were talking

1:57

about, including Miss Swift. Good

2:00

for the Grammys, I have to say, because it felt

2:02

like there were layers and layers of things that people

2:04

were discussing and unpacking, which doesn't always happen with the

2:06

Grammys. Yeah. So we're going to get right into the

2:09

Grammys first, but we

2:11

have a beautiful guest this

2:13

week. As in, how did this happen

2:15

to us? It's very shocking. I

2:18

think it kind of fits because

2:20

we will be talking about a

2:22

French goddess Celine Dion this week.

2:25

So it's only fitting that we

2:27

are joined by another icon of

2:30

the Patisseries, as it were,

2:32

Juliette Benoche. Yes.

2:36

Maybe the most glamorous chocolatier of all time,

2:38

I have to say. She's in the new

2:40

movie, The Taste of Things, which is an

2:42

exquisite viewing. In fact, I don't know that any

2:44

actress has been called exquisite more times than this person. I'm

2:46

sure she is downright sick of it. I think we get

2:48

into it too. But an

2:51

amazing Oscar winner. If you think of all

2:53

the movies she's done over the years, everything

2:55

from certified copy, unbearable lightness of being the

2:57

three colors trilogy. She's just a

2:59

staggering actress. If I had to put a

3:01

finger on what is so awesome about her,

3:03

it is the immediate sense of interiority when

3:05

she gets on the screen. The minute you

3:07

are looking at this woman, you are seeing

3:10

a thinking feeling person. You don't

3:12

have to be acquainted with whatever she's playing

3:14

in order to get it. And I'm so

3:16

psyched she joined us this week. And let's

3:18

just say she clocks us both. Quite. Yes.

3:24

Usually Lewis and I are the one surprising

3:26

a guest with, oh my God, you know

3:28

that film. Well, you know that fact about

3:30

me. But there are two points that I

3:32

feel like she said, I

3:35

don't know about that one. But well, she

3:37

reminded me of a press cycle about a

3:39

specific movie I was not aware of. And

3:42

you will get into it because I fucking love

3:44

the movie too. Yeah. Well, I mean, you weren't

3:47

reading Kahia's do cinema in middle school, which is

3:49

crazy. You would think that was like my actual

3:51

textbook. Thank you. But so

3:53

we have Juliette Benoist, obviously that's

3:56

coming up later in the episode.

3:58

But first. These

4:00

Grammys right first of all, I want to say

4:02

there was a lot of smart mouth thing out

4:04

there A lot, you know a lot of lip

4:06

if you will about people saying like oh

4:09

if you really enjoyed that Annie Lennox tribute

4:11

to Sinead O'Connor make sure to get your

4:13

prostate exam or whatever you need whatever making

4:15

fun of gays for being old I'm,

4:18

so sorry. This ceremony was a

4:20

huge win for Gen X right

4:22

in a row Tracy Chapman Annie

4:24

Lennox toasting Sinead O'Connor Joni Mitchell

4:26

is not Gen X but her music is

4:28

I think still a milestone for anybody You

4:31

know 35 and up they were

4:33

definitely the best parts of the ceremony and

4:35

I say this really appreciating the people who

4:37

came afterwards I enjoyed the opening to a

4:40

leap of performance Miley Cyrus gave a great

4:42

performance her speeches were even better But

4:44

if you came away from that ceremony not thinking

4:47

oh those legends deserve to be legends. I mean

4:49

open the schools Well, I would also

4:52

say and when we get into her particular

4:54

performance as well Miley Cyrus

4:56

is actually Maybe

4:58

the only performer who was

5:01

giving that Gen X Legend

5:03

quality. Yeah, she was giving

5:05

bh1's diva's live. She was

5:08

worrying about mackey dress like

5:10

she really stepped into her

5:12

Element with the whole look with the

5:15

performance with the sort of devil may

5:17

care attitude that she had when she

5:19

was Accepting her awards the

5:21

reverence that she was paying to Mariah

5:23

when she first went up her speech

5:26

about I don't really care

5:28

about this because I had a beautiful day prior

5:30

to this like that felt like A

5:33

star a classic star and it felt like

5:35

something we aren't really getting from current

5:39

People who are performing, you know, like do

5:41

it isn't really at that level yet because

5:43

let's start with do a leap She opened

5:45

up the show with Houdini and a preview

5:48

of training session her new single It

5:50

looks good. She was actually killing it

5:53

with some choreo. I love that. She gets

5:55

better each time we see her Right. I

5:57

love that. She is truly coming from that

5:59

school of I want to improve

6:01

each time. Because if you remember her

6:03

during Hotter Than Hell, when she was

6:06

playing in the London clubs, when you

6:08

and I first saw her palladium in

6:10

Los Angeles, Bigré was not giving. No.

6:13

The languidness has elevated to beautiful

6:16

langour, which is elevating now into

6:18

briskness in the choreography even. I

6:20

saw a hint of brisk. Chante,

6:23

she is staying when at first

6:25

she was a sachet. Right, right.

6:28

But I still want to say

6:30

that she opened up the show

6:32

and she is one of the lesser topics coming out

6:34

of Sunday. No. Well

6:36

also, tough ask given the amount of legends

6:38

that followed, but you're right. I think the

6:40

problem is it was a good performance, but

6:42

also standard, like something you would see maybe

6:44

at the VMAs or the Billboard

6:46

Music Awards or whatever. Whereas a lot of the

6:48

things that we're talking about at the Grammys were

6:51

elevated in a way where it could only happen on

6:53

the Grammy stage, which by the way is good for

6:55

the Grammys because I don't find any award ceremony easier

6:58

to trash. Just in

7:00

terms of like who has too many

7:02

awards, who's underrepresented. I'm a

7:04

little astounded that Taylor won album of the

7:06

year, even though when you look at

7:08

the sales and the year she's had given that she's

7:10

Times Person of the Year and she's the only entertainer

7:13

ever to have won that, it's incomparable how large she

7:15

is. So it kind of makes sense

7:17

ultimately, but at the same time, there is nobody

7:19

out there and there is no Swiftie in particular

7:21

who thinks that's her best album. None,

7:24

okay. Unless you're one

7:26

of the deranged ones who

7:28

are sending death threats to

7:30

people like our friend Jackson Rickett. He

7:34

loves Taylor Swift anyway. No,

7:36

he posted out that Midnight's was mid-

7:38

Oh, I see. And got

7:41

several dive faggot emails.

7:43

The next day. It's just so nice

7:45

to know that people care, getting a dive faggot every

7:47

once in a while. You know what, I missed that

7:50

era, okay. I used to get those

7:52

at Buzzfeed all the time. Oh, excuse me. The time

7:54

I said Lady Gaga didn't deserve a

7:56

Best Actress nomination for House of Gucci.

7:58

Oh, the dive faggot's- came fast and

8:00

they came furious. Joker,

8:03

Folly, Ado in my inbox. Getting

8:06

back to Dua, I think that Trainee

8:08

so should also is not giving me

8:10

memorable songs. No, well again, we

8:12

said that Houdini had fourth single energy, which is

8:14

tough because it's the first single, even though it's

8:16

catchy and grows on you in the way that

8:18

Dance the Night from Barbie did. I

8:21

wish we'd gotten more of that, actually. We

8:24

got a little snippet of Dance the Night

8:26

in between both of those songs, but I

8:28

would have rather heard that song, but I

8:31

guess she's saving that for the Oscars. Right,

8:34

we'll see what happens there. I wouldn't know. I'm

8:36

not behind the scenes. Why would I, Louis, know anything

8:38

about that moving on? I know

8:40

you got a lot of tea. Right. The

8:42

problem with Training Session also is, didn't she kind

8:44

of do this already? Like we had the like

8:46

workout video. Physical. Yes, slightly speedy

8:49

yoga is kind of her vibe, and

8:51

I think we're doing that again. This

8:53

is really giving emotions beside energy. Mm,

8:55

yes. Like it's all of

8:57

these songs. Lovely songs, yes. Of course, and honestly,

8:59

I think that the emotions besides a lot of

9:01

those were better than some of the songs on

9:03

Emotion, but I still feel like

9:06

every duos thing that we're hearing now

9:08

sounds like it could have been on

9:10

future nostalgia. Definitely, definitely. And again, it's

9:12

not like we're teeming with disco-fied music

9:14

at the moment, so I'm almost embracing

9:16

that we're getting these things that sound

9:18

just like they belong to earlier sessions,

9:20

but at the same time, repetitiveness

9:23

is repetitiveness. So I can only say

9:25

it's a B-plus, ultimately. And

9:27

there's this stagnancy that I feel

9:30

like is happening within pop

9:32

music in general, which is sort

9:35

of why there was this backlash

9:37

to Midnight's winning, you know?

9:39

Because Midnight's, if we just get into

9:41

the tailor of it all now, you know, Midnight's

9:44

is, I would put

9:46

it as like she's had 10 studio albums

9:48

so far. She

9:50

announced the 11th, the tortured poets

9:52

department, which is coming out. The

9:54

tortured album title, yes. I

9:59

dropped that as a... major college.

10:01

I said, you know what? I'm

10:03

good. Let's do theater. Also,

10:06

the cover isn't even given to the

10:08

Tortured Poets Department. Which poet? Is

10:10

that Sylvia Blass? Right, right, right. And

10:12

also, it's like maybe it's meant to be cheeky, but

10:14

at the same time, it just sounds... It's giving tumbler.

10:16

It's so middle school. The cover is also giving tumbler.

10:19

It's so high school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just we're

10:21

in our mid-30s now. Can we move into we're just

10:23

legitimate writers and stuff? I don't know. I did not

10:26

think it was a great Grammys for Taylor, even though

10:28

she won Album of the Year. No, the

10:30

title is giving... I can't

10:32

remember the exact title, but it's giving... I

10:35

came up with the idea for a play

10:37

festival that I wanted to do in college

10:39

once, and I remember telling my best friend

10:41

at the time, roommate, Luke, the title. And

10:43

he looked at me and he said,

10:46

no, I don't think so. And

10:49

that is what it's giving. If you tell

10:51

someone the Tortured Poets Department, it's

10:53

giving... Let's go back

10:55

to that drawing board. It's giving

10:57

college. She's giving college writer the

11:00

first thing that they're ever really

11:02

proud of putting out there. It's

11:04

a bit Baroque for her. She

11:06

always has these simple titles, right?

11:08

Everything is rare, or fearless, or

11:10

folklore. But I will say that

11:12

she did drop the song titles

11:14

and the album is featuring Post

11:16

Malone and it is featuring Florence

11:18

Welsh. And one of the producers

11:22

on the album is... Quincy

11:24

Jones? No, probably not. Who

11:28

is Belle, who's worked with Post Malone and it's

11:30

also done Afterglow by Taylor

11:32

Swift, Circles with Post Malone, My

11:34

Little actually

11:46

liked the album, to be

11:48

honest. It'll probably be better than Midnight's,

11:51

hopefully, because at least from the song

11:53

titles, it seems like this

11:55

is the breakup album. This is the

11:57

I'm dragging the hell out of him. See,

12:00

I saw titles like but Daddy I

12:02

Love Ham Ah, months I can fix

12:05

Ham Arms So Long London Is it

12:07

like says about ago and right? And

12:09

allegedly it may be a play on

12:11

the fact that Joe Allen, Her Acts

12:13

and Paul Mezcal and somebody else who's

12:16

name is the Stabbing Me right now

12:18

or and a texting group called The

12:20

Tortured Mans Club. So many a play

12:22

on that. And as you know, there

12:25

are no coincidences with words and numbers

12:27

and the world of Taylor Swift. Oh

12:29

don't tell. Me: how be that by

12:31

now it like I'd bet that so

12:33

uncool of Paul right right by the

12:35

i just watched a video of him

12:38

at a promotional video for all of

12:40

a strange. As for he and Andrew

12:42

Scott are playing a game together. I

12:44

actually had underestimated how fucking huge pile

12:46

mescal as intimidating mailer yes obviously studies

12:48

have you seen upset but share. That

12:51

right? Know the terrorists like hell. Yeah I

12:53

did. We get a lot of palm

12:55

as go concept online are as he

12:57

folds army Harris on Instagram ah the

12:59

Fisher if it is I've been a

13:01

one man Paul Mescal blogger and as

13:04

the only time you actually see videos

13:06

of him actually sour whatever say they

13:08

pop up on film updates is used

13:10

to come from Journeys is agreeable a

13:12

you see him sitting in a chair

13:14

like for his birthday and was giving

13:16

Tfg this assess assess, assess assess and

13:18

not in a Mark Rylance why. I.

13:21

Will sit out so immediately When Taylor

13:23

Swift when her first Grammy of the

13:25

night, she went up to the podium

13:27

and started pumping this album. Drop the

13:29

album title and the girl and I

13:32

say something. I. Don't know that a

13:34

yes I am did a defendant because I do

13:36

think the Grammys are. Explicitly

13:38

commercial like. We're all here to say

13:40

go and buy the music you know

13:42

and and we exist and are Industry

13:45

is dying. Please help us. So I

13:47

kind of do like that she had

13:49

it prepared. I just wish. He

13:52

had been like a little funny or about it or

13:54

something so there's like the way to the way she

13:56

added it was like to see goes up there and

13:58

she's like this is my. The Team Grammys have

14:01

I ever brought up before that? I

14:03

like the number Thirteen. Stop pretending. These

14:05

are like in jokes for like four

14:07

fans or something. so the entire world

14:09

is drowning in these references to your

14:11

minutiae of your cell block from hostage

14:13

every other week after Huge Were always

14:15

try to solve these. reynolds. Was. List

14:17

said the say about announcing this

14:20

album title as this is why

14:22

the tide started turning against to

14:24

or. At the Grammys.

14:26

and if you like see how

14:29

to bad Grammys see one is

14:31

constantly sort of oblivious to. For

14:34

privilege as a white woman ah

14:36

and sort of oblivious to the

14:39

fact that people get a little

14:41

tired of Bob hurt capitalistic tendencies

14:43

and I feel like for a

14:45

night that was about celebrating people

14:48

like says he's out man on

14:50

Johnny Met saw you know and

14:52

I'm giving reverence to arm just

14:55

the music industry in general and

14:57

having these great nights for people

14:59

like Victoria Monet and Cocoa Joe

15:01

that you know like even put

15:04

Zs. Get out who I don't really care

15:06

for but you know this. this a night

15:08

where it feels not like the Billboard Awards

15:10

for the be and as where you would

15:12

announce something like that and I feel like

15:14

that's what she announced the last time that

15:16

see was because of us. He's done this

15:19

before right? right? Also is

15:21

not new at it, just felt commercial.

15:23

It felt crass. It didn't feel in

15:25

the spirit of the night. See now

15:27

Sit and I'm sure everyone else there

15:29

is like okay girl. i know

15:32

that is the grammys everyone is

15:34

watching it spicy as be one

15:36

pop star in the world who

15:38

says that neat the fucking grammy

15:40

stage to announce an album and

15:42

get more eyeballs on her seat

15:44

heard whisper it in a restaurant

15:47

every outlets in two minutes yeah

15:49

like we will all hear about

15:51

as you are owed the fact

15:53

that she just went up there

15:55

and is using this as a

15:57

moment to talk to her fans

15:59

about this, it's giving Nicki

16:01

Minaj. I

16:04

was just saying, it's giving Gail Weathers. It's giving

16:06

Bob the Book. It is Gail Weathers. I'll send

16:09

you a copy. But

16:11

it's giving Nicki Minaj, and I don't

16:14

mean in the deranged making fun of

16:16

a woman who was assaulted by her

16:18

romantic partner and then shot

16:20

by him and sending

16:23

your fans to damage

16:25

her mother's grave. This

16:29

week when we talked about the Nicki Minaj and Megan

16:31

shit, some people were like, maybe they're being a

16:33

little bit too light about this. I think that

16:35

Megan's being light about it too, and she got

16:37

number one on fucking Billboard. She doesn't give a

16:39

fuck. And Nicki has now retreated

16:41

to doing Instagram Lives of her tour rehearsals

16:44

trying to get people to come and see

16:46

this show. So... No.

16:50

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But

16:53

it's Nicki behavior, it's Sagittarius behavior, to be

16:55

honest, if I want to get to the

16:57

astrology of it. And I don't. But

17:00

this whole idea of I'm getting on stage

17:03

and I'm talking to my fans in code

17:05

is very... There's one way to thank your

17:08

fans. Miley said, thank you for my fans

17:10

because my fans have held me down and

17:12

that's more important to me than having a

17:14

Grammy. And because she got

17:16

her first Grammys that night. But

17:19

there's just something about you are the

17:21

most powerful pop star in the world

17:23

right now. You're the most

17:25

celebrity currently, to be honest. Movie,

17:28

music, anything. Sports. You've

17:31

already dominated sports. Maybe the most popular sports player

17:33

at the moment is your boyfriend. Yeah, right. And

17:36

you are more popular than him. You

17:38

know? And so the idea

17:40

that like, hi, here's my

17:42

new album. It's like, girl, we get it.

17:45

Like I'm gonna buy the album. Right, right.

17:47

Did you have to do this now? Like,

17:49

give us a speech. Give us a speech

17:51

that is funny. And when you

17:54

get to the Celine Dion of it all,

17:56

right, that is actually my main problem

17:59

with the Celine Dion. thing is that

18:01

first of all people being crazy on

18:03

both sides of the coin okay there

18:05

are a lot of heartfelt speeches for

18:08

people about how she disrespected Celine Dion

18:10

this white woman she wasn't raised well

18:12

etc I'm like okay girl I mean

18:14

she pays deference to people all the

18:17

time I don't think that it was

18:19

an intentional flight right

18:21

Celine Dion. She didn't want to

18:23

push Celine Dion off the stage.

18:25

Yeah okay if

18:28

she did do that though I mean it would be

18:30

terrible. Funny about. Given

18:33

how everyone's kind of walking on eggshells around Celine. She's

18:37

like I've never liked that bitch. That actually

18:40

would have been a gag. That would have

18:42

been a gag. You know my dream is

18:44

for Taylor to sabotage the extreme following she

18:46

has right just I hate these people and

18:49

now they're all they're gonna be pissed at

18:51

me now based on the decisions I make

18:53

and I think she should turn to violence

18:55

I think it makes that. You go to

18:57

like an old-school movie or something where they

19:00

would have a recording of someone backstage

19:02

that's how people used to lose elections

19:04

in movies back when we pretended that

19:07

we cared about elections and electing good

19:09

people right it'd be just a someone

19:12

turning on her mic and it blasting across

19:14

the whole Grammys yeah like I can't stand

19:16

those fucking Swifties they're gonna go by that

19:19

would be fucking funny but the

19:22

Celine Dion of it all is when you watch

19:24

this video and I was doing the play-by-play okay

19:26

okay I know my football okay unlike

19:31

last week when I named someone who is no longer

19:34

on the 49ers oh yeah and people said Ira what

19:36

do you know about football and I said absolutely nothing

19:38

okay no my own brother message me said so does

19:40

Ira not know that those people on the team I'm

19:42

like girl I don't know either don't even bring it

19:44

up um

19:48

but when you watch the video

19:50

you see her rushing up there she's

19:53

excited obviously and she wants to

19:55

get out there and do her speech

19:58

and that I think is in here

20:00

inherently the disconnect with Taylor

20:02

Swift and maybe that is a Bit

20:05

of awkwardness and insecurities on her part

20:07

that still pop up there when she's

20:09

in these settings Even though she's

20:11

been up there multiple times before and she'd already been up

20:14

there that night Her mind

20:16

just is sort of just one track

20:18

right with I'm up here. I have

20:20

to do the speech. I have to deliver it And

20:23

you know, like I'm gonna say what I'm

20:25

gonna say, etc No, but I actually engaged

20:27

fans like she's very like here I am

20:29

to read the children's book to the

20:31

children. Yes, right She

20:33

there's there's always there's I believe

20:36

that She loves to

20:38

lead the on obviously she was singing along to the

20:40

song. She knew the words When

20:43

Celine was her walkout music was happening,

20:46

but there's just something about it never

20:48

crossed her mind Immediately in

20:51

the way that it would cross a lot

20:53

of people's bodies like Celine Dion. Oh my

20:55

god And then she calls you up on

20:57

stage like for anybody else. I would be

20:59

like Shake it. I

21:01

would be like I'm meeting Celine Dion,

21:04

you know and she is

21:06

giving me and we're also like she's Come

21:08

back from like what we thought was near death,

21:10

you know, like that is a moment I

21:13

will say sympathetically when you win album of the year

21:15

all these people come up on stage like the producer

21:17

stuff So you have a lot of socializing to do

21:19

in that moment. You want to say hi to everybody

21:21

that said The figure

21:23

that Celine Dion cuts when she enters a room

21:25

and by the way, you don't know if she's

21:27

ever gonna enter a room again We don't know

21:30

what's that with her. What's happening with her life.

21:32

The updates are all kind of harrowing She seems

21:34

to be harrowed by it. There's like a stricken

21:36

kind of fearful look just about her anyway So

21:39

I do feel like top of mind in that situation when

21:41

Celine Dion is there and I don't know It's like seeing

21:43

Jack Nicholson or something, you know, I mean, it's like oh

21:45

my god I can't believe you're here. Yeah, and you're around

21:47

and you're part of this or whatever I

21:50

do feel like it's hard not to be like

21:52

how did you not give her like a little

21:54

bit of a moment right on stage? Then but

21:56

at the same time there's so much going on.

21:58

So I don't know that I can really pinning

22:00

on her one way or the other, but it

22:02

was questionable because she went right into the shtick

22:04

of what she does. You know what

22:06

I mean? So it was that what you

22:09

were watching was the one track mind thing.

22:11

And also she did make the attempt to

22:13

be like, I'm, I'm posting other artists. Like,

22:15

but what she did was drag Lana Del

22:17

Rey on stage and Lana Del Rey, her

22:19

eyes is like, you're making me a prop

22:21

right now. You know what I mean? Like

22:24

it was not joyful that entire moment. And

22:27

then the skipping Celine was like the insult

22:29

to injury. She's basically

22:31

bad at improv. Yeah, right.

22:34

And by the way, it's not improv. She does a lot of planning.

22:36

You know what I mean? Yeah. She's

22:39

very methodical. And I think that for

22:41

her, she's unable to be spur of

22:43

the moment. Yes, to be honest, you

22:45

know, even when she's being cool and

22:47

funny in like public in front of

22:49

cameras, it still feels very much like

22:52

she's planning it, you know, like you saw the

22:54

backstage stuff of her, like putting the Grammy on

22:57

Lucy Dacus's head of like, this

22:59

will be funny. This will be

23:01

a cool photo or like, Jack, you're being weird. Like come

23:03

over here. It's like, it's very much like, it'd be cool

23:05

and funny for me to get this photo to show that

23:09

like we're having a good time. So let's

23:11

do that. And I think that's where her

23:13

mind goes. Yeah, Lana not coming on stage

23:15

at first and then hiding there. That was

23:17

also throwing off because she's like Lana Del

23:19

Rey. She's hiding. I'm going to

23:21

do it like a dive roll off the

23:23

stage. She's like stop, drop and rolling outside

23:26

exit. Right. But

23:28

I think it's really just that's the combination

23:30

of not being able to improv because anybody

23:32

else, even the most disrespectful

23:34

people in the industry, like Nicki

23:36

Minaj, you know, someone

23:39

who's been like a psycho this past week

23:41

would get out the stage. And even if

23:44

you're not going to do a full like,

23:46

oh, I'm bowing like deference thing, like you

23:48

get up there and you are like. So

23:51

leave fucking Dionne flat for her. And

23:54

that's not even just, it's not even just like

23:56

a social norm to know. I feel like it's

23:58

an, it's an industry norm. They're not

24:00

just musicians, anybody. You know,

24:03

like if when an icon

24:05

comes out or something at the Oscars or something

24:07

and you win an award from them, sometimes people,

24:09

unless, if it's like one of your regular contemporaries,

24:11

sure, but you know, if like someone

24:14

older comes out and they're right there and

24:16

they're giving you something, you're like, oh my

24:18

God, like give it up for them. And

24:20

I think also a big thing is comparing

24:22

her to Miley, who did all of the

24:24

things we're describing, which is Mariah

24:26

Carey gives her the award. And by the way, Mariah Carey,

24:29

how do you not pronounce Miley Cyrus correctly?

24:31

What is happening there? She said Marie Serens

24:33

or something. It was, I was

24:35

at the dentist minutes ago, whatever came out of her mouth.

24:39

But Miley Cyrus goes up there and she's

24:41

thrilled and she is definitely

24:43

joking around and being funny is just a part

24:45

of who she is. Like she'll be funny no

24:47

matter what. We were describing this quality last week

24:49

with Nicki Minaj. Like Nicki Minaj will be going

24:51

to like the jail for war crimes and she

24:53

will be joking on the way there. That's how

24:55

it goes. Okay. Give

24:57

it one year. Give it one year. But

24:59

Miley Cyrus was so funny again and again

25:01

while being reverent. Like she had Mariah Carey

25:03

right there. So she's doing all

25:05

these things so we know it's possible. And then

25:08

in the second minute, we have Taylor Swift there

25:10

to compare that. I'm sorry. I'm

25:12

sorry. They got me on

25:14

Guantanamo, y'all. The original gag

25:16

city, Guantanamo. Obama

25:25

said he was going to close down gag city and

25:27

he never did. Another

25:29

campaign lie. Progress is broken. But

25:33

anyway, I thought people were doing too much with

25:36

the Taylor Swift of it all. But I do

25:38

want to lastly say that people were talking about

25:40

this backlash coming to her and which is, is

25:43

she doing this backlash because reputation Taylor's

25:45

version is coming out. I'm

25:47

like, I don't think she's that calculated. Oh,

25:50

I see. No, no, no, no. I

25:53

really think that this was a Unexpected.

25:56

Like, oh, people were driving her for this. And

25:58

I Think that she got that. Peter quickly

26:00

the pain was backstage. Like Olivia Pope

26:03

said, you get this photo was only

26:05

the Ah right now and you put

26:07

it out there said it worked My

26:10

gang busters because every city was in

26:12

the comments of every single person has

26:14

i'm was hot sauce with that boat

26:16

else they were dropping it Daylights nice

26:19

narratives they love each other of I

26:21

have had departed Associate of Pizza Rolls

26:23

Justice and Before They Burn Assess assess

26:26

assess and one less sympathetic notes Taylor

26:28

Swift recording. Reputation must

26:30

be annoying as fuck is came out like four

26:32

years ago and she sounds the same and it's

26:34

just gonna sound the same and him that? that's

26:36

a real challenge I think to reintroduce that album

26:39

that still sounds like a good come out and

26:41

twenty twenty four. Awesome was

26:43

my favorite album of are so I think that's

26:45

the one that really true lol evaded your found

26:47

them as you know that really is her art

26:49

pop in terms of. You. Either committed harder

26:51

or you'd you'd frank a little bit when

26:54

it came out. As you know, the choreography,

26:56

which I believe was done by Julia Stiles

26:58

in the film say the last dance on

27:00

your back a little better. Or

27:03

for prefer. Wow. Sailor.

27:06

I'm looking forward to the Tortured

27:08

Poets departments odd looking board. zoo reputation

27:11

salesperson is actually the ones he

27:13

was. Birds of a have been looking

27:15

forward to a sick and fearless

27:17

to. I don't really need. Taylor.

27:19

Swift her was version but I'm for will

27:21

get it but good luck. And. Don'ts

27:24

ssssss. Are at

27:27

a when we are back. To

27:29

distill some was more Grammy subtle. Vote

27:36

Save America Just got a facelift as

27:38

he's looking better than ever. A

27:41

time she went on Fox is the Swan. As

27:44

she came out looking great! What about the Poti

27:46

vs Miss Swann? They both had a talk on

27:48

early. Out Vice

27:50

President A Political Strategy Drop by his Syria

27:52

last week to talk about the strategy behind

27:54

the move and share her tips for finding

27:56

easy ways to get involved as we head

27:58

into this crucial. Election Year. Listen to

28:01

the interview out now in the hysteria feet.

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32:13

right, we're back with more Grammy's

32:15

chat and let's kick it off

32:17

with our returning Grammy's host Trevor

32:20

Noah who was looking good as

32:22

usual. And I will say

32:24

I liked his

32:27

Grammy stuff better this

32:29

year. It was a little bit funnier

32:32

and he wasn't haranguing

32:34

Beyonce the entire time. And

32:37

I also think that's why Beyonce showed up for like 10 minutes.

32:40

She showed up for Jay's speech and then

32:42

if you look at the tweets of people

32:44

who were there say that basically she did

32:46

a meet and greet like there was a

32:48

queue of celebrities waiting to get their Getty

32:50

photo with Beyonce. And then she was

32:52

like, let me get out of here. Right.

32:55

But Trevor this year without his havoc

32:57

because you remember last year there was

32:59

this whole if Beyonce wins she

33:02

will be tied with etc etc. And

33:05

it's like okay and he did that same thing with Taylor

33:07

at the beginning but he only did it once. He

33:10

was giving the carnival Barker from they shoot horses

33:12

don't think which is one of the grammar roles

33:14

in cinema history. Gig young scary guy read that

33:16

wiki sometime. They should Swifties dope.

33:18

What if we name the episode that? You need to not

33:21

do that. Okay. My

33:23

bunker today. Cut

33:28

that. They're definitely not going to cut that. They

33:30

won't be dead. But

33:33

Trevor Noah I thought was funny. I

33:36

will say this. It always surprises me the

33:38

tenor with which he hosts the Grammys because

33:41

it's so different from when he hosts The

33:43

Daily Show where his tone is very sardonic

33:45

and even keel. Whereas

33:47

when he's hosting the Grammys it is.

33:50

Wow. I am walking around

33:52

from table to table. I'm asking you about your

33:54

order. Where are you from. Here comes this person.

33:56

This person can't even sit down because I'm screaming

33:59

at them. interesting tactic for

34:01

a... it's like you don't

34:03

have to do that much. You know, we're already

34:05

overwhelmed by the environs of the room. I

34:09

don't know why... it feels like a nervous tick

34:11

or something. I'm not sure really why he picks

34:13

that literally decibel level to

34:15

address the crowd with. The jokes? I

34:18

thought some of them were okay. To me, it

34:21

still felt kind of first thought, like not really

34:23

super different than the Joe Coy thing,

34:25

because Joe Coy's approach was disastrous. I just feel

34:27

like he can do a little less. The

34:30

Grammys don't really lend

34:32

themselves to making

34:34

jokes about people the way that you do

34:37

the Oscars to the Globes, you know? Stan

34:39

culture runs the Grammys, yeah. Stan culture and

34:41

musicians are thinner skins, if you can

34:43

believe it. And actors, you

34:45

know, because actors are at least used to

34:48

that tradition. You know, you're lightly being roasted

34:50

or whatever. You can't roast an artist. What

34:52

are you going to be like? Well,

34:55

you don't have any Grammys, Katy Perry. We

34:58

start the show with that, yeah. First worth out,

35:01

I was out. But

35:05

moving on from Trevor, we already

35:07

talked about Dua Lipa, SZA,

35:09

another big moment of

35:11

the show and another

35:14

sort of disappointing moment, I guess,

35:16

her not winning album of the year or

35:18

such as the big year that she had.

35:20

Because if you're talking about someone who also

35:22

had a humongous year, SZA really

35:24

did. Yeah, right. Like,

35:26

SOS was everywhere. And

35:30

culturally, I'd say she's right

35:32

up there last year with Beyonce and Taylor

35:34

in terms of people are talking about this

35:36

album. But you know, I feel like it's

35:39

definitely more of a millennial Gen

35:41

Z vibe of

35:44

an album. And so, of course, the old

35:46

Grammy voters aren't

35:48

connecting with SOS as

35:51

an album. That's another problem

35:53

that, I mean, I guess we should address

35:55

too. The Grammy voters are not like the

35:57

Oscar voters. They're more akin to the... HFPA

36:01

as they used to be and that no

36:04

one knows who the fuck these people are.

36:06

Right. No, I mean, and again, it's like,

36:08

it definitely sways much older too. I mean,

36:10

unfortunately, the definitive moment is that they would

36:12

pick Harry's house as album of the year.

36:15

To me, that felt like, oh,

36:17

we've heard of Harry Styles. Yes,

36:19

we like that one song. Yes, of course,

36:21

we are going to vote for him.

36:23

We understand that as opposed to knowing

36:25

that the Beyonce Renaissance album was what

36:27

was on all of like anybody

36:30

with taste was caring about that album. That's

36:32

what they should have done. I still can't

36:34

get over that. They also seem bitter though.

36:37

They also seem like people who vote against

36:39

things because they want to put someone in

36:41

their place. As Jay-Z

36:43

basically all but articulated during that awesome

36:45

and very funny speech, where he says,

36:48

oh, when I get nervous, I tell

36:50

the truth. What a funny line. Because

36:52

now everybody else is nervous. Also,

36:55

the Renaissance film reminded me of it because we

36:57

usually hear him rapping, but it's so rare that

36:59

we hear Jay-Z talk anymore. I

37:02

always forget like his voice, his vocal

37:04

cadence, and just how like amusing

37:06

it is to hear him talk.

37:08

Right. Also, I really liked the

37:11

way he put it, the way he kind of slammed

37:13

the Grammys obliquely when he said, we want you to

37:15

get it right. We

37:18

know you don't have the critical faculties really to do

37:20

this, so we want to help you out. In a

37:23

way, good for him and good for Beyonce, that he

37:25

made that speech. But at the same time, it also

37:27

is so awkward for Beyonce. Yeah. Oh. It's like, I

37:29

don't want to stand there and watch her having to

37:31

hear that she's like, not rewarded enough or something. I

37:33

don't know. It feels like begging. It

37:37

feels like she's embarrassed by it. But I

37:39

will also say, Switchee's being mad about this,

37:41

as if he was dragging

37:43

Taylor. It's giving more Sagittarius

37:45

behavior of a hit dog, will

37:49

holler. Because there

37:52

are many people who want album of a year over

37:54

Beyonce. Right. And

37:56

there are many people nominated. And obviously, Taylor

37:58

and Beyonce are friends. So why would

38:00

he be dragging her? I saw that AMC

38:02

ad thing they did. Yes, they are definitely

38:05

knowing each other and aware of each other,

38:07

certainly. Man, it is just

38:09

staggering that there are only three black women

38:11

who've won Album of the Year, and it's

38:13

Natalie Cole, Whitney Houston. Again, that's an unavoidable

38:15

album. That was the Bodyguard soundtrack, biggest soundtrack

38:17

of all time, and the miseducation of Lauryn

38:19

Hill that nobody has wanted since then. Not

38:21

a Missy Elliott. I mean, it just speaks

38:24

for itself, is all I can say. It

38:26

speaks for itself. Right. So,

38:28

that had the full list

38:31

of people

38:33

who've been nominated since 1999 with Zero Wins for

38:38

Album of the Year, TLC in 2000,

38:41

a fan mail, beautiful

38:43

album, India Ari in 2002,

38:46

Missy Elliott in

38:48

2004, Alicia Keys in 2005. That

38:53

was kind of wild to me because that album is... That's

38:56

the diary of Alicia Keys, right? Yeah, with

38:58

no one on it and stuff. Yeah. That

39:00

album was unescapable. Mariah Carey,

39:03

2006, Beyoncé, 2010, 2015, 2017, and last year,

39:05

2023, Rihanna, 2012, Britney

39:14

Howard with the Alabama Shakes in 2016,

39:17

which is so interesting because that

39:19

is also the kind of album

39:21

that they'd give it to and

39:23

would feel weird almost like a John Batiste,

39:25

even though Britney Howard is so fucking amazing.

39:28

That would feel like one that's not within

39:30

the mainstream pop culture of a win. That

39:33

they would stick their neck out for because

39:35

it's like legitimate music. Right. But

39:37

that would have been an amazing win and a win for a

39:39

block woman. Janelle Monae in 2019 and this year, her 2019, 2022.

39:46

She's been nominated for three Album of the Year. This woman

39:48

is a minute old. She

39:51

lives at award shows. You know that. And

39:53

she just lived in an incubator where she was born. She

39:57

is the Phantom of the Opera. Okay.

40:01

No, yeah. All the people that we

40:03

thought lived at the Grammys before, Alison Krauss, John Legend, they

40:05

have been kicked out in favor of her. Cardi

40:08

B 2019, Lizzo 2020 and 2023, Janae Iko 2021, JosjeKatt 2022, Mary

40:11

J. Blige 2023 and

40:18

then of course SZA this year. All right. Well,

40:21

they've got their work cut out for them question mark. I

40:24

mean, like, it seems very crazy to me. What

40:26

did you think of SZA's performance? Really

40:29

good. I could say it's sort of

40:31

mid tier in the ceremony, but again, she's up against

40:34

icons coming back that you kind of

40:36

thought you'd never see again. So when

40:38

Tracy Chapman took the mic and sang

40:40

Fast Car with Luke Holmes,

40:42

whose version I think is really good. I

40:44

enjoyed listening to it. And

40:46

we of course praised him for the fact that he kept

40:48

the pronouns in the song. I work in the market as

40:51

a checkout girl, one of the great lyrics of all time.

40:53

Just something I want to say. I know I'm working at the market as a checkout

40:55

girl. I mean, you just want to say it. I

40:58

kind of worried at first that it would be a little

41:00

bit too slow a performance. But you know

41:03

what the magic of Tracy Chapman is? The

41:05

minute she starts singing, you lean in to

41:07

hear the song. And I want to bring

41:09

this up as like a reminder to other

41:11

people, like American Idol and the world of

41:13

Belters has like kind of like transformed our

41:15

brains into believing I'm supposed to grip my

41:17

seat and lean back when I'm listening to

41:19

a vocalist. It was so nice to hear

41:21

somebody who you could tell that come from

41:23

this sounds like I'm being derogatory.

41:26

Coffee house culture of like there's like a

41:28

voice that like fills a room in just

41:30

a way. You know, again, it's the Dionne

41:32

Warwicks, the people where it's like I'm listening

41:34

to the story in their voice and I'm

41:36

being warmed to it. That was

41:39

so refreshing and just something we do

41:41

not have anymore. Yeah, you could hear

41:43

the men falls in

41:45

their voice. Yes, precisely. Like Dionne

41:47

Warwick. Who by

41:49

the way was at the Grammys. Yes. Yes.

41:52

Well, hold on her cigarettes. Excuse me. I'm

41:54

lying. That picture. Do

41:56

you know the way to Commerce Casino? But

42:01

Tracy Chapman, what a

42:03

beautiful performance. And I'm glad that this performance

42:05

happened. She was so full of life too.

42:08

She loved that the people were responding to

42:10

her. The smile on her face? She has

42:12

that shy Berkeley professor vibe where it's like,

42:14

I'll go back into my white ivory tower

42:16

momentarily, but for now I'll show you that

42:18

I still got the PhD in musicology skills.

42:21

Luke Combs won me over

42:23

with this grin that he had on his

42:25

face. I can't believe I'm singing alongside her.

42:28

And I think that that is exactly what

42:30

the Grammys should do more of.

42:33

And I mean, the Grammys couldn't technically couldn't

42:35

really even engineer this because Luke did it

42:37

himself by doing the cover of it. But

42:40

the way that it introduced

42:42

Tracy Chapman to a younger

42:44

audience and you have like her

42:47

bass car was like number one on iTunes now.

42:49

And I think other people are starting to listen to

42:52

other music of hers. That subtitle album is

42:54

just phenomenal. That's the one that was nominated

42:57

for album of the year, right? She won

42:59

Best New Artist in the 80s. Yeah, she

43:01

won Best New Artist. I love the video

43:03

for the title song from Telling Stories 2

43:05

that was directed by her bread. There's a

43:08

lot of great, the acapella song

43:10

off her debut, Behind the Wall. That's a

43:12

great song. Yeah. And

43:14

it also did wonders for Luke Combs too because you

43:17

have an older audience and not

43:19

even just an older audience, maybe

43:21

like even a non-country listener audience

43:23

who was introduced to him. And

43:26

now I'm like, I love his voice. I love

43:28

this deference that he paid to her. And now

43:30

I feel like I'm going to listen to some

43:32

Luke Combs. And speaking of deference, of course you

43:34

had Joni Mitchell and I don't mean to defame

43:36

Brandi Carlisle who is wonderful, great vocalist, great writer.

43:39

When I see her with Joni Mitchell, my immediate thought

43:41

is like Richard Simmons and whoever that woman is who

43:43

minds the gate. I'm just like, I'm concerned and I

43:45

don't know the full story. Okay. And

43:48

it is so deferential to Joni Mitchell. Joni

43:50

Mitchell performs. She's 80 now. Of

43:53

course she performed both sides now. I have

43:55

no idea why I thought she would perform

43:57

anything but when that performance started, I was

43:59

worried. that girl the

44:01

chair the chair spinning around I

44:04

was like are we at the

44:06

Tony's yeah also is this murder by death like

44:08

what is this but when she started I was

44:10

like oh is she kind of in control of

44:12

this moment is it gonna be too slow because

44:15

it's like already a pretty slow song if she's

44:17

even taking it down a notch that was another

44:19

performance where I was just like wow you are

44:21

really like wheeled into her vibe and her control

44:24

and her sense of authority which has not wavered

44:26

at all it was really cool to see that

44:28

also I really hope people if you want to

44:30

get into the versatility of Joni Mitchell my recommendation

44:33

is starting with any album this

44:35

is somebody who would attack a genre and you

44:37

would think it didn't belong to her at all

44:39

and suddenly she's like in the 80s with wild

44:41

things run fast a rock singer or she was

44:43

a jazz artist in the mid 70s unfortunately

44:46

the Don Juan's reckless daughter blackface photos have

44:48

emerged and they are all over the web

44:50

again that is a concern of mine that's

44:52

also one of her worst albums 1977 but

44:54

I mean Court and Spark Blue, Ladies of

44:56

the King and these are all unbelievable albums

44:58

so I hope people really investigate them. I

45:01

love those blackface photos. She really

45:03

picked a character. I

45:06

will also say that another person who you

45:09

can hear the men's thoughts okay she's one

45:11

of the original sig fluencers. I think Joni

45:13

Mitchell is the only artist in history where

45:15

if you give me without

45:17

any music just her voice I can tell you

45:19

what year it is based on how smoky her

45:22

voice is like oh you went down an octave

45:24

that's got to be help me from Court and

45:26

Spark or whatever people's parties from Court and Spark.

45:28

I don't believe that her albums are on Spotify

45:31

but they are on Apple Music

45:33

so um Turbulent

45:35

Indigo that's

45:38

one that I was revisiting this week

45:40

because that's in the 90s she had

45:42

a Grammy run aside the Grammys decided

45:44

they hadn't awarded her enough I think

45:46

and they gave her a couple awards

45:48

for that and that has a song

45:50

called Sex Kills on it she goes pretty

45:52

hard yeah yeah Sex Kills

45:54

is a great fucking song and the cover is

45:57

like of a painting of her it's very

45:59

bango And she did the painting. She often

46:01

painted all of her album covers, yes. Yeah,

46:04

giving you triple threat. Yeah,

46:06

quite. Every once in a while she'll give an

46:08

interview where she's like, I'm more of a painter than a musician. Now,

46:10

in that regard, shut up. What the fuck is that? Where's

46:17

the Whitney exhibit? Yeah, right, right, right.

46:19

And then I feel like there was

46:21

one other legend. Oh, Annie Lennox. When

46:24

Annie Lennox appeared and sang that tribute

46:26

to Sinead O'Connor during the evening, perfect

46:28

pairing. Whoever produced the hell out of

46:30

that, I said Annie Lennox proves

46:32

that Fierce and Vulnerable go together. And her first

46:34

album Diva, which of course has Wyatt walking a

46:37

broken glass on it, remains an all-timer

46:39

for me. Definitely in my top, I'll say 15. I

46:42

mean, speaking of Tracy Chapman and Luke

46:44

Combs, remember when Annie reached across the

46:46

aisle years ago with Your Love, Whitney

46:48

Kimanaj? Oh, yes, of course.

46:51

Right. Also, there's a

46:53

performance I can't find online anymore where she did

46:55

a tribute to Stevie Wonder and she sang My

46:57

Sharia More. Woof, that performance is a 10. Please

47:00

go and find that. I

47:02

love Annie Lennox. And also, shout out to Annie

47:04

Lennox being the only person in this entire awards

47:07

season to call for a ceasefire on stage. It

47:09

was really shocking to hear. The

47:11

only person. Yeah, I mean, it's shocking to hear because I hadn't

47:13

heard it. There's no contemporary. She

47:16

is the only one. And

47:18

of course, you do that during a

47:20

Sinead tribute. Right. Certainly, certainly. Obviously, we

47:23

love her. What about Stevie? Stevie,

47:25

first of all, is always going to give you a little

47:27

bit of funny, too, because he likes to sit there and

47:29

rip a little bit. If you watch the We Are the

47:32

World documentary, The Greatest Night and Pop, which just came

47:34

out on Netflix, you get some

47:36

of this, too. He did a tribute to Tony

47:38

Bennett during the In Memoriam. I will say this.

47:40

If you're going to do a

47:42

tribute to Tony Bennett or like do a duet with him,

47:44

with old footage of him, why not use

47:46

footage of him in his prime? It

47:49

was like a later Tony Bennett performance. You

47:51

know what? Gaga has all that footage. Yeah.

47:54

She's like she has like the Prince Vault of just

47:56

Tony Bennett living. She wasn't able to be there, so

47:58

no one else is allowed to touch. Right.

48:01

Honestly, wouldn't it have been wacky to see

48:04

Gaga just perched on the piano with Stevie

48:06

Wonder singing a Tony Bennett song? Oh my

48:08

God. That would have been amazing. Where is

48:10

she? Girl, she's in the

48:13

studio, allegedly recording new

48:15

music, but I really just think

48:17

it's ADR for Folie-I-Duh Joker 2,

48:20

or at least music that's in it. That's

48:23

exactly the correct answer. Where is she?

48:25

In character. That's where she is.

48:28

But yeah, that wasn't my favorite Stevie performance, but

48:30

I mean Stevie is always going to give it to

48:32

you. I've seen Stevie at the

48:34

Forum, I've seen him at the Ball, Stevie

48:36

is always great. I'm glad that

48:39

I've gotten to see Stevie perform in

48:41

my lifetime, doing songs in

48:43

the Key of Life actually. Oh really? I'm

48:45

obsessed with an 80's song of his called Go Home right

48:47

now. So if you go and listen to that-I think he

48:49

performed it on SNL in the 80's too. Oh,

48:52

I'll go do that now. Okay. So

48:55

Stevie was leaving the studio, but he's actually in the community.

48:59

Okay, what else did we get in terms of performances? Speaking

49:02

of legends, honoring legends,

49:04

Fantasia Barrino honored Tina

49:07

Turner. And I have

49:09

thoughts. Okay. Obviously Fantasia

49:11

sang down. And

49:13

it was fun seeing her, you know,

49:15

doing a step. It was

49:17

obviously littlier than anything we saw in The Color

49:19

Purple. Yes. And I think

49:21

that thing she does, like what she does

49:24

on stage is a little bit more akin

49:26

to Tina Turner than most other people who'd

49:28

been up for this gig. So actually that

49:30

was pretty clever that she got the gig.

49:32

Yeah. But I'm tired of hearing Proud

49:35

Mary. Right. It's

49:37

so the Dolly Partnification of these

49:39

people where it's like, you

49:41

would think Tina Turner had two songs. That's

49:44

what you would think based on what the Grammys and what all these

49:46

award shows do. Of course, Proud

49:48

Mary is a good song, but it's also like a cover.

49:50

It's like not actually her signature thing either. You know, you

49:52

could say the same thing about respect and Aretha Franklin. I

49:54

know. But anyway, it's also

49:56

from her era with Ike too. So how

49:58

about something after that? Edit typical male come

50:01

on from from the album break every rule.

50:03

Where's that? It's giving Prince when he died

50:05

and we always had to hear her windows

50:07

cry You know It was giving wood when

50:09

Madonna did that tribute and we were like

50:11

damn couldn't see a song that was in

50:13

her range Yeah, and actually like fun and

50:16

upbeat and for this when you

50:18

talk about the popularity of Tina songs, too

50:20

even in terms of the Grammys Proud

50:22

Mary isn't even the highest like yeah was

50:25

what's love got to do with right if

50:27

we're doing with her highest one or typical

50:29

male or Fantasia

50:31

would have murdered the best absolutely which

50:33

I feel like has gotten a new

50:35

sort of lease thanks to it being

50:38

Heavily featured in Schitt's Creek, right, you know,

50:40

like younger audiences know that or we

50:43

don't need another hero like a full medley Any

50:45

of those. Yeah, that would have been nice Yeah,

50:48

give us something give us educate the people even

50:50

a little bit, but it was nice to see

50:52

her dancing within the crowd It's always fun when

50:54

someone interacts with the crowd and her little shimmy

50:56

with Do a leaf that was

50:58

a good moment for Dua Lipa She rose to

51:00

that moment and she's like and

51:02

shimmying is of course like what she's the Yale

51:04

at right? Like she can do that well and

51:07

she did that with Fantasia I

51:09

also want to say that I love once

51:11

again Beyonce being the celebrity celebrity that Fantasia

51:14

when she Posted on

51:16

Instagram the next day. She said I didn't

51:19

even see you there Beyonce. I was in the

51:21

moment. Uh-huh Thank you so much

51:23

queen And smiling

51:25

at me and I would love to grace

51:27

the stage with you or record a song

51:29

with you Put

51:32

it out there also, of course Beyonce has given

51:34

this Tina Turner tribute before so

51:37

You might automatically think of her for this gig.

51:39

But of course she has done Proud Mary once

51:42

in a couple times She

51:44

was in her best Carnival Barker look.

51:46

Yeah, right Just the

51:48

still the white hair. She's going

51:50

full country now Which really does make

51:53

me and everyone else obviously think that act

51:55

two is gonna be country themed And

51:57

by the way, there better be an act to Yeah,

52:00

it better not be this shit that she always does

52:03

where I feel like she is definitely the kind of

52:05

person who when she's not feeling something, she just grabs

52:07

it. Right, no, I think she could have

52:09

shunted a lot of this away who has no, I have no

52:11

idea what happened. But she's dressing so

52:13

country lately that I feel like she

52:15

is teasing it to us, you know?

52:17

And not in an insane way because

52:19

you know what I also found out,

52:21

so what you were saying that for

52:23

a minute, Taylor's website

52:26

was down and if you

52:28

had looked in the source code for

52:30

it, it revealed like

52:33

the album. Who

52:36

was doing that? Also, yeah, meaning

52:38

what? Okay, that's really

52:40

baffling. And two, it's time

52:42

for everybody to get employed. It's time to stop. We're

52:45

looking at website source codes, okay? We

52:47

grew up on Swordfish. Sorry,

52:49

Halle Berry, it's exacted, okay? Let

52:52

alone this. Not

52:55

one of Jake Gyllenhaal's best. Speaking of

52:57

Jake Gyllenhaal, I saw Roadhouse. Oh, I

52:59

forgot that came out. It's coming out,

53:02

but he's hot in it, it's great.

53:05

I really enjoyed it. It's not campy like the

53:07

original one, but it's sexy and it's good and

53:10

I DMed Jake Gyllenhaal yesterday and I said, come on,

53:12

keep it. And he will not

53:14

respond, I'm sure. Interesting, yeah. Good

53:17

technique, the only technique we have,

53:19

right? Well, he also goes

53:21

to the theater a lot in New York. Next time I

53:23

see him at a show, he will be getting attacked.

53:25

Oh, you're just running up to him? Like Sean Wilkes'

53:27

booth style, okay, yeah. Watch

53:31

out, Jake. Also,

53:33

Maggie Gyllenhaal, come on, keep it. Fucking lost

53:36

daughter. We'll get into her some other time.

53:39

Now we're like Jay-Z. Do

53:43

better, Gyllenhaal's. By the

53:45

way, when you were talking about people

53:47

giving you coffee shop vocals, not doing

53:49

that sort of American Idol belting, what

53:52

an amazing performance from Billy Eilish.

53:54

Oh, you know what, I stand

53:56

corrected. Somebody you do lean forward to here. I

53:58

will say. I'm always

54:00

kind of like, I subscribe to

54:02

her and I think she's a

54:05

rad celebrity. Seems very cool and

54:07

nobody appreciates other musicians more. The

54:10

vibe in the songs, I

54:12

wonder if it's like a little bit like jazz,

54:14

like I'm just not hearing all the intricacies of

54:16

it. To me, her thing gets a little repetitive,

54:18

but I do like the song. I don't love

54:20

the song, I like the song. I like the

54:22

song quite a bit. I'm glad that you at

54:24

least like it and even if you don't love

54:26

it, I think a lot of the anti what

54:28

was I made for online is being a little

54:30

performative. But I will say that what

54:33

I like about this song is it

54:35

was giving pop more. She

54:39

was showing, oh I can still sing, girls. I

54:42

got those vocals. She was putting Renee

54:44

Rap on notice. She said, alright girl, I

54:47

got those vocals too. But

54:49

I'm waiting for her to lean in full

54:51

into that vibe and give us

54:53

a pop album. That

54:56

will be amazing because she can fucking do it.

54:58

She is a great singer. She's

55:01

a great singer and Finneas is a great fucking

55:03

producer. Yeah. No, I call

55:05

them the ASMR painters, the brother sister duo. Love

55:08

to sleep. Yes.

55:13

I mean that moment was really

55:15

just amazing to me and

55:17

I think she just always kills an award

55:19

show performance to be honest. And apparently what

55:21

she was wearing that green and pink ensemble

55:23

was a throwback to the 1964 and

55:26

1985. I'm not making this up.

55:28

Poodle Parade Barbie. My second time

55:30

using Exquisite this episode. Yes, I'd rather

55:32

it. I

55:36

just want to see Billy. I was walking

55:38

a poodle now. Oh sure. Let's

55:41

do that for an album cover or something.

55:43

Also nobody kills a photoshoot like her. She

55:45

always makes interesting choices. Some

55:48

other performances. Travis Scott, very

55:50

satanic. That was also very, there

55:53

was no vibe there and right

55:55

after the entire Joni, incredibly

55:58

overwhelming moment. That

56:01

performance, I felt like I needed an

56:03

instruction manual. Like, so, okay, we're throwing

56:05

chairs and moving right along.

56:07

No idea what's happening there. Yeah. Olivia

56:10

Rodrigo, who we love, this was

56:12

fine. Vampire, good song. Actually, a

56:14

song that continues to grow on me. It is a

56:16

really fun song. She

56:19

only went medium octane with the, like,

56:21

Carrie bloodshed, and I think we needed

56:23

a full Suspiria thing, you know. Yeah.

56:27

That would have actually killed. Yeah. And

56:29

it's very, like, okay, you're bleeding. Are you okay?

56:31

Yeah. You need a band-aid. Are

56:34

you okay? Burna Boy, I love

56:36

Burna Boy's look, but I don't know, and I know

56:38

it's Burna Boy's, I actually really like Burna Boy, but

56:40

I feel like it's a sort of vibe to just

56:42

sort of, like, be

56:45

what we got on stage, but damn, could

56:47

we have gotten a single Give It Up

56:49

for Brandi Norwood? Like, I didn't even know

56:51

that was her at first. Also, she came

56:53

right out, and Carmen Sandiego was alive and

56:56

well. She is not in Dara's

56:58

salon today. She is not

57:00

in P. King. She is here on stage. Brandi

57:03

sounded fabulous. Also, Brandi is

57:05

just somebody you can safely call underrated. She

57:07

has had several fabulous albums over the years.

57:09

She had one, like, four years ago that

57:11

we talked about on the show, but of

57:14

course, Afrodisiac is fabulous. Of course,

57:16

The Boy Is Mine is one of the great

57:18

radio singles. I always argue the rare song where

57:20

the verses are even catchier than the chorus. Yeah.

57:23

And he was underwhelming, I mean, in the performance,

57:26

but I do love 21 Savage. His

57:29

new album, American Dream, is kind of all I've been

57:31

listening to all week. And

57:33

his joint album with Drake,

57:36

her loss was maybe the best thing that

57:38

Drake has done in recent years, aside

57:40

from slinging his dick around on

57:42

that private jet today. Wait, what?

57:45

I missed this. Oh, there's leaked videos

57:47

on Twitter. Oh, no. It's a

57:50

good dick. Okay, well... He probably

57:52

leaked it himself, girl. After

57:55

his video of work playing at a concert, and

57:57

he'll say, no, I don't see... that song anymore.

57:59

Y'all can sing it yourself and everyone's dragging him

58:01

or being like, okay, why are you being shady

58:03

to Rihanna right now? He was probably like, let's

58:06

get the public back on my side. Oh, I

58:08

see. And he's like, I have a

58:10

secret weapon. Yeah. My

58:12

Yankee candle. Okay. Well, I

58:14

guess his maple candle. He's Canadian. His

58:17

Mountie candle. We're going to go ahead and

58:19

move this along. The

58:21

last performance of the night was Billy Joel

58:23

and I didn't care. He,

58:25

I mean, I will say this about

58:28

Billy Joel. When he walks into a room, I mean,

58:30

it's like the Empire State Building is there. I saw

58:32

him perform in 2019 and it's like you're, nothing

58:35

can be more an institution in American

58:37

music than Billy Joel. So it's cool

58:39

that he and he's very like appreciative

58:41

of musicians. Like his vibe is great.

58:44

Yeah. The song, I mean, of course

58:46

I'm tepid about it. Yeah. It

58:49

was a great song. I mean, Fred Wexler,

58:51

the man who kept showing up on screen,

58:53

who produced it with him.

58:55

Hot as hell. Good looking man.

58:57

So thank you for introducing me to him. He

59:00

also produced Kanye's Wolves. So I mean, he

59:03

escaped from hell to be able

59:05

to work with Billy Joel. So congrats to that.

59:07

I was just like,

59:10

we're closing out the show with this girl. We're

59:12

Twyla Tharpa. Speaking of moving

59:14

on. Like, can we get some dancing?

59:16

Yeah. Yeah. Can we get some dancing?

59:18

Something like it's, it's just always

59:20

interesting to me when the show ends on

59:23

that, on those moments, like a legacy moment like that,

59:25

you would just rather get something upbeat. Right.

59:27

When I think of the Grammys ending, I think

59:29

of like Dave Grohl working with six other legends

59:32

on the stage and they're all like banging

59:34

guitars out. Like you go out on a high

59:36

note, like you're holding your ears. Mm

59:39

hmm. We also got a commercial for U2 and the sphere.

59:42

And I really got to see that show.

59:44

Yes. Also, by the way, it's not the

59:46

sphere, it's sphere, which is such a strange

59:48

marketing choice. The sphere sounds way better. Yeah.

59:51

Okay. I'm going to keep calling it the sphere. It

59:54

does feel like they're a little bit trapped there. A

59:56

la Twilight Zone episode stuck in a snow globe. Ultimately.

1:00:01

the categories and the wins, who

1:00:03

really cares? You know, it's about

1:00:05

the fun speeches. And, you know, I will

1:00:08

say that Victoria Monet winning for

1:00:10

Best New Artist was fucking rad.

1:00:12

Yes. I loved her speech.

1:00:14

A little long, but she was funny multiple

1:00:17

times, which saved it. She was. Yeah. And

1:00:19

a good story about how, you know, she's

1:00:22

been, she's 34, you know, and how like she's

1:00:24

been working in this industry since like 2009 or

1:00:26

whatever, and

1:00:28

has been grinding and working for other people

1:00:31

as she had this binder that was collecting

1:00:33

dust at some other place. And her

1:00:36

manager was like, I'm going to go and work with you.

1:00:38

That's that reminds me of, who was it? Who

1:00:42

was it? Katy Perry's documentary. I think

1:00:44

it was Katy Perry's documentary. Was it

1:00:46

like her, a woman who was working

1:00:48

with her was talking about how she

1:00:50

had stolen like a binder

1:00:52

or something out of the record

1:00:55

label and ran with it to go and work

1:00:57

with her. Oh, well, we

1:00:59

love crimes when they're necessary. Sure. Yeah.

1:01:02

Otherwise, I don't know, Flowers was

1:01:05

a big one or other than I, I'm

1:01:07

actually kind of surprised that it didn't win

1:01:09

more at the end. But the thing about

1:01:11

the Grammys we can wrap up on is

1:01:13

that a lot of the awards do

1:01:16

not happen on camera. Yeah. And

1:01:19

it's like, I would have loved to see

1:01:21

Fred again and Kylie Minogue on stage. Right.

1:01:24

And it was a thrill that Kylie Minogue won.

1:01:26

I mean, could anything be more Demir and Australian?

1:01:28

Winning your second Grammy in a career like that.

1:01:30

It feels very polite that she would only win

1:01:32

two Grammys. Padaam, Padaam takes

1:01:34

me instantly back to like Fire Island in

1:01:37

this past summer. It's not

1:01:39

my favorite song of hers, but it's just so

1:01:41

nice that she had that kind of like pitch

1:01:43

moment in front of everybody where we all

1:01:46

got to reevaluate that she is so consistent

1:01:48

as a pop star. And when

1:01:50

I saw her in Vegas a couple of

1:01:52

weeks ago, she sounds better than ever. I

1:01:54

mean, it sounds so obvious. She's like Harley

1:01:56

Rae Jepsen, the people that know her know

1:01:58

all of her songs. them all truly equally.

1:02:00

And then she performs them and she sounds better than

1:02:02

she does on the record. Okay, I gotta see

1:02:04

that too then. And Mariah Carey announced

1:02:06

a new Vegas thing too. Yes,

1:02:09

which I think I would go and see. I wonder

1:02:11

if it would be different than the number one thing

1:02:14

she did or whatever, like what her strategy would be.

1:02:16

She's somebody who's very interested in bringing

1:02:18

underrated things out of her catalog, I think.

1:02:20

So I feel like I hope she makes

1:02:22

interesting choices here. When

1:02:24

I saw her holiday show in

1:02:27

New York at Madison Square Garden, there was

1:02:29

a segment where she did a

1:02:31

bunch of songs, throwback ones,

1:02:33

and some of the emancipation ones that

1:02:35

she picked and EMC squared

1:02:37

ones she picked too were unexpected. So she does

1:02:39

love to throw out fun things for the fans.

1:02:42

Yeah, right. Well, of course she like wrote all

1:02:44

of them too. So if I had an ego

1:02:46

and I were Mariah Carey, I'd say, well, I

1:02:48

wrote all this shit too. You better understand that.

1:02:53

Last comment too. Miley

1:02:55

Cyrus, such a fucking star. I

1:02:57

loved her moment when she said,

1:03:00

don't act like

1:03:02

y'all don't know the words to this song. The

1:03:04

amount of comments she stuck into the song as

1:03:06

she performed it, she was having such a fucking

1:03:08

blast up there. The comment about, I didn't forget

1:03:11

anybody, but I did forget my underwear. I mean,

1:03:13

just like, come on. Well, you know that was

1:03:15

shade. To? Her

1:03:17

father. Oh, I see. I see. Yes. Yes.

1:03:19

Yes. There's been, you know, like a split

1:03:21

between the mom and the dad. Like, I

1:03:23

forget the whole drama of it, but she

1:03:25

named everyone except for Noah

1:03:28

and her dad.

1:03:30

And then said, I don't think I forgot anybody.

1:03:33

Love that. Except my underwear, and

1:03:35

then walked off stage. And also, by

1:03:37

the way, shout out to the fact that she

1:03:39

looked exactly like Jane Fonda in five different eras

1:03:42

of her career on that day. It was Barbarella.

1:03:44

It was China. Coming home. Coming home. It's accepting

1:03:46

the Oscar for her father, Henry. It's L'Oreal campaign

1:03:48

from the 2010s. It really was a retrospective of

1:03:50

the greatness of Jane Fonda. Let's get her out

1:03:53

of movie again. Yeah. Let's get Miley

1:03:55

out of movie again. How about the two of them? Yeah. Yeah.

1:04:00

projects unless they were quality. Crazy.

1:04:03

So let's get them together. Yeah.

1:04:06

They are sort of giving like

1:04:08

the Kiki Palmer and Angela Bassett.

1:04:10

Yeah. They're both sort of, you know

1:04:13

what? Ding ding. Big

1:04:15

business with all four of them. Remake.

1:04:19

Nothing wrong with big business. That needs to

1:04:21

be taught to the teens. You want to

1:04:23

see Lily Tomlin and Bette Miller not only

1:04:25

playing twins but wearing wild

1:04:27

shoulder pads welcome to heaven. Yeah.

1:04:31

Mothers and daughters mash up. Also

1:04:35

were you not afraid of what might fall out

1:04:37

of Miley Cyrus' purse where she opened it on

1:04:39

stage and was dangling? Oh yeah. Because you know

1:04:41

she's a rowdy girl. I was

1:04:44

like girl what's up in there? Just

1:04:47

bottles of fireball fall out. And

1:04:51

last comment about the Grammys. We talked

1:04:53

about Celine Dion and Taylor but Celine

1:04:55

Dion looks fucking amazing. Law Roach came

1:04:58

out of quote unquote retirement. I feel

1:05:00

like Law Roach has worked so much

1:05:02

for someone who's allegedly retired. He's

1:05:04

Cher. He's

1:05:06

always doing a comeback tour but she looked

1:05:08

great. The bomb? Oh please. Nothing

1:05:11

wrong with a bomb. Margot Tenenbaum. That was

1:05:13

looking sharp as in like ow

1:05:15

I hurt myself. But

1:05:19

let's segue from that French royalty

1:05:21

into Juliette Vanoche. We

1:05:23

will be right back to

1:05:25

talk to this living icon. This

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wherever you get your podcasts. You

1:09:23

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1:09:25

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1:09:27

be without me. Your

1:09:30

takeaway is incorrect, but I'm going to

1:09:32

allow you it right now. We

1:09:41

are honored to have this guest

1:09:43

here today. She is a renowned

1:09:45

actress the world over, who's worked

1:09:47

with the legendary auteurs like Jean-Luc

1:09:49

Godard, Andre Teixin, Claire

1:09:51

Denis, Olivier Asais,

1:09:53

and Christophe Kieuslowski, among

1:09:56

others. American audiences know

1:09:58

her from her classic films like Shelf a

1:10:00

lot and the English patient affectionately

1:10:03

known as La Benoche in her home

1:10:05

country of France. We're so lucky she

1:10:07

is back on our screens in the

1:10:09

incredible vulnerable new film, The

1:10:11

Taste of Things. Please welcome to Keep

1:10:13

It, the magnificent Juliette

1:10:16

Benoche. What a

1:10:18

presentation. This

1:10:21

movie is exquisite. This is the only word

1:10:23

to describe this movie, but I could not

1:10:25

believe watching all the intricate camera

1:10:28

choreography in this movie, all the amazing

1:10:30

glimpses of the food, all the amazing acting

1:10:33

that you only had a day of rehearsal

1:10:35

before actually shooting this movie. And then I thought,

1:10:38

is that something you actually prefer going into a

1:10:40

movie with no rehearsal? Yes, but

1:10:42

before that we had some videos

1:10:44

where we could see how the

1:10:47

cook, you know, how the chef

1:10:49

was preparing everything. So

1:10:51

memory wise, we had it in, well, I had

1:10:53

it in me. And

1:10:56

after that, it was just a matter

1:10:58

of organizing and who was

1:11:00

doing what. And we had

1:11:02

the right hand of the

1:11:04

chef who was there to

1:11:06

help us, you know, direct whether, you

1:11:09

know, the some of the

1:11:11

gestures were not right. And

1:11:13

we have to also follow

1:11:15

the rhythm that the camera

1:11:18

was, you know, looking at things and

1:11:20

traveling as well, because it was mostly

1:11:22

like a big brush, you know, going

1:11:24

around. And so we had to,

1:11:28

to organize it the day

1:11:30

before shooting how, who

1:11:33

was doing what and the pace of

1:11:35

it all. I don't think

1:11:37

I've seen such intricate cooking and food

1:11:39

displayed like this on screen, maybe said

1:11:42

something like Babette's Feast, which also showed

1:11:44

the making of a French dinner. I

1:11:46

just want to know, what

1:11:48

is your relationship with French food? Like,

1:11:51

was this, were you coming in watching

1:11:53

these videos being like, I absolutely have

1:11:55

no idea how food is prepared this

1:11:57

way? Or were you familiar with it?

1:12:00

just over the years of

1:12:02

living in France. Well, as

1:12:04

a mother, I've been cooking and, you

1:12:07

know, in France, we cook because

1:12:09

it's part of our way

1:12:11

of living. And I'm

1:12:14

not intimidated in front of veggies

1:12:17

and stuff, you know, and

1:12:19

a stove. I just put my hands

1:12:21

into it, and it's part of what

1:12:23

it is. And as actors,

1:12:25

you know, you've got to throw yourself into it.

1:12:28

And in cooking, you do something before

1:12:30

and you do something after, and, you

1:12:32

know, there's a chronology you've got to

1:12:34

respect. And that makes at the end

1:12:36

of it, you know, a whole kind

1:12:39

of amazing dish because you know what

1:12:43

comes after what, you know, it's

1:12:45

really about that cooking, exquisite cooking. That's,

1:12:47

you know, how I took it anyway.

1:12:50

And I had a wonderful person telling

1:12:52

me, no, do it more than like

1:12:54

this or like that. And that's easy.

1:12:56

You're just following the steps of the

1:12:59

person who's helping you. I would

1:13:01

cook like that every day for sure, because it

1:13:03

would take too much time. And

1:13:06

I love cooking. I love eating, but

1:13:08

I'm not passionate enough to spend as

1:13:10

much time. One of my favorite things

1:13:12

about this movie is just watching you react to the food you're

1:13:14

eating. And how much of that

1:13:16

is your genuine reaction? And how much of

1:13:19

that is you having to add something that

1:13:21

you're not experiencing as you taste the food?

1:13:23

You know, it blends together as an

1:13:25

actor, you don't know what, you know,

1:13:27

you're being real and truthful to the

1:13:29

moment. And what's in you,

1:13:32

you know, the story. But I

1:13:34

think if I remember well, because of

1:13:36

course, I forgot almost everything. But if

1:13:39

I remember well, I did genuinely react

1:13:41

to what I was feeling because the

1:13:43

food was amazing. And

1:13:46

whom the director really wanted us to

1:13:48

have the experience of exquisite cuisine. So

1:13:51

that was the challenge of the first

1:13:53

ad, and the director and

1:13:55

everybody and the right hand of the chef

1:13:57

to prepare it just in time. so

1:14:00

it was coming at the right temperature. And

1:14:03

also good food, you know,

1:14:05

you eat it just after it's been

1:14:07

cooked. You don't wait for hours, you

1:14:09

know, before eating it, if you see

1:14:11

what I'm saying. I recently

1:14:13

had the chance to see you again

1:14:15

on a big screen. Friday

1:14:17

in New York, they were re-showing your

1:14:20

film, Let the Sunshine In by Claire

1:14:22

Demi. And I just

1:14:24

wanted to ask you a

1:14:26

bit about what it's like

1:14:28

working with, particularly French directors,

1:14:30

what sort of sensibility you

1:14:32

think that happens on set

1:14:34

or in the direction of

1:14:36

it that's different from American

1:14:38

productions. I think the expectations are

1:14:41

probably a little different, I would

1:14:43

say, because maybe in

1:14:45

America, in the US, there's

1:14:47

a sense of the results,

1:14:49

you know, of having

1:14:52

success and making money. It still

1:14:54

exists in, I would say, in

1:14:56

Europe and in France, but it's

1:14:58

not the expectation, I think. The

1:15:00

quality of things counts more in

1:15:02

a way to start with, because

1:15:06

I think that's the way we are trained in

1:15:08

our minds, something like that. I

1:15:11

don't think when Claire Demi is working,

1:15:15

she's thinking, is it going to have success?

1:15:17

She doesn't care. And

1:15:19

me as an actress, I feel the same. I'm

1:15:22

more into the moment, in the present moment, to

1:15:25

try and find a truthful way of telling

1:15:28

the story, which is

1:15:30

true as well, of course, in America. But

1:15:32

I think there's behind it,

1:15:34

there's the need of money,

1:15:38

probably because you don't have the

1:15:41

help we have in France, money-wise,

1:15:44

with productions. You

1:15:46

know, there's a whole

1:15:48

system that cinema is being supported

1:15:50

by the government. There's money for

1:15:52

few films a year. To

1:15:56

get going. So

1:15:58

there's some help. And

1:16:01

I think because in America you don't have

1:16:03

help. If your film doesn't make any money,

1:16:05

you cannot do another film. As

1:16:07

in France, we don't have that because if

1:16:10

there's quality in the film, you

1:16:12

will be helped. Yeah, I mean,

1:16:14

I even think of three colors, which

1:16:16

you start in the three colors blue,

1:16:18

being specifically a commission for

1:16:21

France and about what France stands for.

1:16:23

And I feel like that is just

1:16:25

so different from what we would expect

1:16:28

a film to be made for in

1:16:30

America. I don't know if it was a commission.

1:16:33

Maybe I don't understand that term,

1:16:35

but it was just the producer,

1:16:37

Maren Karmitz, who wanted to have

1:16:40

working with Kieszewski and

1:16:43

he wrote three scripts and it happened.

1:16:45

But it was the idea of Kieszewski.

1:16:47

It was not sort of an idea

1:16:49

to put France into well on it.

1:16:52

Oh. On set as though at

1:16:54

all, it was just three stories. And

1:16:59

yeah, and Kieszewski wanted to work in

1:17:01

France. And I remember when we

1:17:03

were working, he just wanted to do just one

1:17:05

take for each shot. I was

1:17:07

asking to do another take because I

1:17:09

wanted to explore it and also I

1:17:12

wanted to make it better. And

1:17:16

I had to bargain with him every

1:17:18

single time because he was ready to

1:17:20

do another take when there was a

1:17:22

technical problem. And

1:17:25

I asked him, why don't you want to

1:17:27

do another take? I don't understand. He said,

1:17:29

well, because in Poland, I

1:17:31

only did one take because film

1:17:33

is expensive. You don't do a second

1:17:36

take. And also in the editing room,

1:17:38

it's easier because you have only

1:17:40

one choice. I said, but you're

1:17:42

in France. You can do

1:17:45

many takes. And

1:17:47

so we laughed about it as

1:17:49

you are laughing now in

1:17:51

order to, you know. But

1:17:54

I had to spider-load it. I have to bring

1:17:56

up the fact that in this movie, the taste

1:17:58

of things, your main co-star. is your

1:18:01

ex-partner, Benoit Magamel, and

1:18:03

you have a child together. And

1:18:05

I didn't realize until I saw the screening in

1:18:07

your Q&A afterwards last week that you had sort

1:18:09

of spoken over the past couple of decades, but

1:18:11

not really. I cannot think of another

1:18:14

situation where actors have reunited in that

1:18:16

way on the silver screen. Like none

1:18:18

are coming to mind. What was that

1:18:21

filming experience like? Was it at all, I don't know,

1:18:23

healing? I don't know what the word for that would

1:18:25

be. I really took

1:18:27

it as a gift because we

1:18:29

could express emotions through

1:18:31

someone else's words, and

1:18:33

it felt wonderful to not

1:18:36

being stuck in not

1:18:38

seeing each other, not speaking to each

1:18:40

other, to be able to go into

1:18:42

a movement of expressing through

1:18:45

a medium, the art of

1:18:47

cinema, and

1:18:51

being able to be next to him

1:18:54

and tell a story, a beautiful

1:18:56

story. And on a certain level,

1:18:58

it was healing, but it was mostly healing

1:19:01

for our daughter. And that

1:19:03

was for me very important to make

1:19:05

it happen. But it's life giving this

1:19:07

gift to us, you know, it's beyond

1:19:09

expectation, it's beyond... I never thought I

1:19:11

was going to work with Benoit again,

1:19:14

so it was a great

1:19:16

present. And you've

1:19:18

had the gift of so many brilliant

1:19:21

co-stars that you've acted opposite of

1:19:23

so many brilliant directors. What would

1:19:25

you say have been some of

1:19:27

the best acting gifts that you've

1:19:29

learned or picked up in your

1:19:31

time from your first film to

1:19:33

where you are now? Like has

1:19:35

your process changed? Has it stayed

1:19:37

the same through each film?

1:19:39

Or do you just sort of switch it up

1:19:42

depending on what kind of project it is?

1:19:45

Well, you asked so many questions in one section.

1:19:48

And it would take a little more time

1:19:50

than what we have, you know,

1:19:53

to answer that. And I would have

1:19:55

to think about it. I have to

1:19:57

say I never prepare the same way.

1:20:00

Because it's

1:20:02

my way to deal with it because

1:20:04

it keeps it alive and I don't

1:20:06

anticipate in knowing how I'm going to

1:20:08

prepare. My needs

1:20:11

are coming real to me just

1:20:13

when, okay, I'm going to be

1:20:15

shooting whether it's two weeks or whether it's three

1:20:17

months or whether it's a year. So

1:20:20

depending on the time I have

1:20:22

before shooting, on this one

1:20:24

I didn't prepare. Well,

1:20:27

for two reasons, because I knew Benoit

1:20:30

and we've been cooking together before in

1:20:32

our lives. And also

1:20:35

I did some period films before, so

1:20:37

it was not like a new thing.

1:20:40

And also cooking, I've been cooking

1:20:43

my whole life. So

1:20:45

it felt like I've got to go into

1:20:47

it, you know, thinking that it was going

1:20:49

to happen. And I think for this film

1:20:51

what I chose to do is to retrieve,

1:20:54

to go away in a

1:20:56

way to let

1:20:58

things happen by themselves. Confronting

1:21:02

Benoit, confronting the making

1:21:04

of food, confronting

1:21:06

whom's expectations. And

1:21:09

so for me it was more like letting

1:21:11

it open, letting it be, let it be

1:21:13

what it is without

1:21:16

being willful or

1:21:18

thinking too much or,

1:21:21

you know, I wanted to be

1:21:23

alive and it's so magical, if

1:21:25

I may say, if it makes any

1:21:27

sense to you. Also because

1:21:30

before starting this film I was preparing

1:21:32

Chanel, that is the TV show

1:21:34

I did afterwards and it was

1:21:36

a lot of work for me to do because our

1:21:38

energy is very specific and

1:21:41

also had a lot of books to read because

1:21:44

so many books have been written on our lives.

1:21:46

And I was starting to shoot the TV show

1:21:49

for seven months, a month before.

1:21:52

So I just finished The Taste of Things

1:21:54

and then a month after I was studying

1:21:56

the Chanel TV show and I was

1:21:58

like such. such

1:22:00

a difficult thing to do for me.

1:22:04

Then I thought, okay, it's

1:22:07

almost the same period of time, but it's

1:22:09

totally different. It's a different take

1:22:11

on everything. You know, the

1:22:14

Eugenie I'm playing in the case of

1:22:16

things, there's a serenity that goes with

1:22:18

it, yet there's death

1:22:20

that goes with it, there's this

1:22:22

long lasting relationship. So

1:22:25

the layers are very kind

1:22:27

of peaceful in a way, even

1:22:30

though death is coming. But

1:22:32

then the need of giving life, the

1:22:34

need of excellency of what she does,

1:22:36

which is cooking, becomes stronger

1:22:38

in a way. So it

1:22:41

was not simple, but it was

1:22:43

clear in my mind. So I just

1:22:45

wanted to let it happen in

1:22:48

the jump of not knowing, which I love

1:22:50

as actors, because it always should

1:22:52

be like that, that you don't know what's gonna

1:22:55

happen. As Chanel, it

1:22:57

was a long train trip,

1:23:01

the seven month shooting, and having

1:23:03

the script that they were coming

1:23:06

one after the other. So I'd never

1:23:08

really been on this kind of roller

1:23:10

coaster of shooting. I was

1:23:12

just rewatching Clouds of Sills, Maria, which people

1:23:14

haven't seen it is with Juliette Binoche and

1:23:17

Kristen Stewart and Chloe Grace Moretz. And that's one

1:23:20

of the few movies I've ever seen where I

1:23:22

kind of got the sense, and this may be

1:23:24

artificial, that I was getting a glimpse inside the

1:23:26

mind of what it's like to be an actor.

1:23:29

And watching that back, was there anything vulnerable

1:23:31

about playing an actress? Because you're the kind

1:23:33

of person we want to play an actress

1:23:36

because there's such depth there, we just wanna

1:23:38

understand it. Right, but I

1:23:40

was playing an actress who had an

1:23:42

ego issue. Yeah. Yeah.

1:23:44

Yeah. Yeah,

1:23:47

it was quite

1:23:49

pride. There was a pride to deal

1:23:52

with. And so

1:23:54

that was fun. It made it

1:23:56

a little more twist of a

1:23:58

comedy feeling, which was... you

1:24:00

know, that we didn't discuss that with Olivia,

1:24:02

but I thought was the

1:24:04

ego is so expanded in

1:24:06

a way, you know, the

1:24:08

narcissism can be really in

1:24:11

a, in a very dangerous

1:24:13

space, if I may

1:24:15

say. So it was fun

1:24:17

just to encounter this

1:24:20

big questions with the

1:24:22

age coming. And,

1:24:24

you know, the assistant coming to her life

1:24:26

and, and being a mirror to her own

1:24:28

life. So it was fun to play. It

1:24:30

was fun to be also working

1:24:32

with Kristen and Chloe very much. I

1:24:35

would have to say one of my

1:24:37

favorite roles of yours. I just finally

1:24:40

saw a film rendezvous, but it's such

1:24:42

a wild character and film too.

1:24:44

And I was just revisiting some of

1:24:46

your earlier work too. Like the characters

1:24:48

that you were playing, how do you

1:24:51

feel looking back at these roles now?

1:24:53

Is that something that you feel like

1:24:55

you would still like to experiment with

1:24:57

or are you happy that some of

1:24:59

those wilder roles was in your past

1:25:01

and you're happy to leave them there?

1:25:04

Wow. That was like 40 years ago.

1:25:07

And it was

1:25:10

my first chance, you know, and I, I

1:25:12

just jump into it where, first of all,

1:25:14

because Andre de Chiner at the time was

1:25:17

like the director and

1:25:19

he was working with young actors and

1:25:21

revealing a lot of young actors. And

1:25:24

so I jumped into

1:25:26

it at the same time. It was rough because

1:25:28

there were a lot of new scenes, you know,

1:25:31

and but when I saw the film again,

1:25:33

not at that long time ago, it was

1:25:36

rough. There was something that was

1:25:38

not mature yet, of course, because I

1:25:40

was so young, but I wish I

1:25:42

could replay that. So

1:25:47

you would replay. No, I wouldn't. It's

1:25:49

done. I wouldn't go back. Okay.

1:25:52

So you're like your clouds of

1:25:54

Sils Maria character. Like you don't,

1:25:57

you wouldn't want to replay a

1:25:59

role. or do something at a stage

1:26:01

show that you've done before? No,

1:26:04

because first of all, the

1:26:06

years of the 20s, in my

1:26:08

life, have been the most difficult ones. And

1:26:11

so you don't want to go back to learning

1:26:14

what it feels like to

1:26:17

be abandoned, or what it feels

1:26:19

like to feel jealousy, or what

1:26:21

it feels like. Not that you

1:26:23

don't feel that afterwards, but the

1:26:25

first times are bigger than afterwards.

1:26:28

So the separations, or falling in

1:26:30

love, and feeling betrayed, and all

1:26:33

that stuff, it's so hard.

1:26:35

And you've got to learn the lessons. You've got

1:26:37

to learn what it feels like

1:26:40

in order to change and change your values

1:26:42

in a way. And

1:26:45

so acting-wise, it's the same. It's

1:26:47

your learning. I've

1:26:50

been miserable on damage. I've been miserable.

1:26:52

The Zaman du Pournette Lovers on the

1:26:54

Bridge was very rough to do. Those

1:26:57

years have been trying to

1:26:59

survive, trying to evolve. And

1:27:04

I lied, and seeing the

1:27:06

consequences of lying, and all

1:27:08

this stuff to learning by playing the

1:27:10

piano of all the notes as a

1:27:13

human being. And so when

1:27:15

you come out

1:27:17

of this a little bit, it feels

1:27:19

so freeing. And so no

1:27:21

way I'm going back to that

1:27:24

glue of emotions. You

1:27:28

just brought up damage, which is literally my

1:27:31

favorite erotic thriller of all time. I think

1:27:33

the acting is amazing. But as people can't

1:27:35

see you right now, you just reacted with

1:27:37

what looks like horror to me. No,

1:27:41

it was rough. Why? You

1:27:43

went through the film, but you didn't read

1:27:45

my interviews at the time. Oh,

1:27:48

god. Well,

1:27:51

it was hard to play with Jeremy Irons, but

1:27:54

I've said that many times. Probably

1:27:56

too many times. And I want to turn the

1:27:58

page now. already turned, you

1:28:00

know, because we spoke with Jamie, but

1:28:04

probably I was horrible to him, you know,

1:28:06

on the other way around. I don't know,

1:28:08

but to me it was very hard to

1:28:10

work with him. And Louis

1:28:12

Madd, who was the director of the

1:28:14

film, was very oblivious to what was

1:28:16

going on. And so he

1:28:20

was going to take his shoes

1:28:22

and have his shoes. And so I

1:28:24

was just disappointed, but I couldn't blame

1:28:26

him. But I felt very much

1:28:28

by myself. Now, Rupert

1:28:32

Graves, the actor who's playing my son

1:28:35

of Jamie, was just wonderful to work

1:28:37

with. And thank God he was around

1:28:39

and we could, you know,

1:28:41

laugh and enjoy the work. Not

1:28:45

that many times I've been

1:28:47

through that kind of a nightmare. So,

1:28:49

but it's true that

1:28:52

sometimes it happens then you've got to

1:28:54

learn how to still

1:28:56

be on the work and still,

1:28:59

you know, carry on and love

1:29:02

doing what you're doing. Because

1:29:05

it's an interesting situation being

1:29:07

an actor. Because you've got

1:29:09

to use your being, you've got to use

1:29:11

your ego, you've got to use everything you

1:29:14

have possibly as a human being.

1:29:16

And yet you've got to give yourself in

1:29:19

a place that has no ego. You've

1:29:22

got to give your soul. That

1:29:25

really makes me think of Miranda Richardson speech in

1:29:27

that movie a lot differently, though. When she's like

1:29:29

excoriating him, I'm like, Oh, okay, maybe that comes

1:29:31

from a genuine place. Who knows? Okay. No,

1:29:34

you've got to give your soul. You've got

1:29:37

to give your, your, your being, your body,

1:29:39

you know, when it needs to be given.

1:29:41

But yet being cautious that it doesn't been

1:29:44

taken in a place that it would

1:29:46

be not for the film. You

1:29:49

really needed to have the sense you into

1:29:51

use your intuition so strongly, because you

1:29:53

need to be respected, but you've

1:29:55

got to give yourself entirely that's

1:29:57

that's that's the equilibrium that is

1:30:00

difficult to find. On the opposite end

1:30:02

of that spectrum, then, is there any

1:30:04

scene partner that you would say that

1:30:06

you've worked with, or do you feel

1:30:09

like that is truly

1:30:11

one of the best working relationships you've been

1:30:13

able to have on a film? Like you

1:30:15

remember it very fondly. I would

1:30:17

say, apart from two actors

1:30:20

who were very

1:30:22

difficult to work with, and I named

1:30:24

one, most of the time I really enjoyed

1:30:26

working with the actors and actresses up

1:30:29

in, you know, bump into in films.

1:30:32

I've been, it's been

1:30:35

mostly the love of sharing because

1:30:37

it's really about that. You

1:30:40

know, throwing yourself into the moment of

1:30:42

sharing, even though you're playing

1:30:44

conflicts and all. It's the trust

1:30:46

you've got to give each other and the

1:30:49

love you've got to share because it's

1:30:51

all about, you know, giving

1:30:53

to the world, giving to the audience,

1:30:56

giving to a hint

1:30:58

of awareness, of evolution,

1:31:00

of giving emotions so

1:31:02

people can feel linking

1:31:05

different layers of yourself so people

1:31:07

can take this in their lives,

1:31:09

in their soul, in their heads,

1:31:12

in their, you know, hearts. It's

1:31:14

really why you're doing it? Because

1:31:17

if it's only egoistical

1:31:19

reasons, it doesn't

1:31:21

go far. It's not worth it. We

1:31:24

were nominated for a Tony for

1:31:26

one of my favorite plays, Betrayal

1:31:28

by Harold Pincer. What is your

1:31:31

relationship like to acting when you

1:31:33

are performing for people every night

1:31:35

on stage as opposed to just

1:31:38

doing it on a film set? You know,

1:31:40

what's great about acting is good luck.

1:31:43

It's like wine, you know, it needs,

1:31:45

in my opinion, years are helping you

1:31:47

to go deeper and deeper. And

1:31:50

when you hear Glenn Gould,

1:31:52

you know, playing Bach at

1:31:54

the beginning of his life and towards the

1:31:57

end, it's really, he would play the same

1:31:59

things, but... And

1:32:01

it really tells you how much

1:32:03

of maturity you need. And I think for

1:32:06

theater, it's even stronger in

1:32:08

that way. Because it's not only

1:32:10

you giving to the

1:32:12

audience, you receiving from the audience.

1:32:15

And the dialogue that is happening

1:32:17

in silence somehow is

1:32:19

really the moment. Because I

1:32:21

think in the present, inside

1:32:24

of the present, and theater is

1:32:26

about present, being present

1:32:28

at the same moment together.

1:32:31

There's a transmission of something

1:32:34

magical. But that's

1:32:36

within the silence. So it's

1:32:39

not only the acting, performing

1:32:41

and showing off what he wants

1:32:43

to do and what he wants to

1:32:45

show. For me, theater is not that.

1:32:47

It's about something

1:32:50

that's going to happen together. And

1:32:52

it's within the silence of,

1:32:56

okay, we listen to something different. And

1:32:58

I think the audience is creating the

1:33:01

show as well, if you know

1:33:03

what I'm saying. In the cinema,

1:33:05

you cannot have that. Because you can

1:33:07

have that with the DP, with the

1:33:09

crew, with the director. Because

1:33:13

it's happening in that moment, and

1:33:15

it's being filmed. In the

1:33:17

theater, it's the present time. It's a

1:33:20

different deal. And

1:33:22

so there's something that

1:33:24

is so intoxicating because

1:33:26

of that co-creation of that, you

1:33:29

know, together in that present

1:33:31

time. And I think acting

1:33:33

is really the art of present. Or

1:33:35

any art should be the art of

1:33:38

present. What does it mean to be really

1:33:41

present in the moment? That's for me,

1:33:43

that's the real question. Before we sign

1:33:45

off, I just want to say, you winning an

1:33:47

Oscar does not begin to scratch the surface of

1:33:49

your talent. But your speech you gave, where you

1:33:51

acknowledged Lauren Bacall, who at that time was considered

1:33:53

a front-runner to win, I thought was just one

1:33:56

of the classiest moments ever at the Oscars. And

1:33:58

it's like, it's cool to watch that. speech

1:34:00

back. And by the way, if people haven't

1:34:02

watched the English patient recently, I mean, it's

1:34:04

just a scintillating performance. So congrats on that

1:34:06

whole era of your life. Oh, that's kind.

1:34:09

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I

1:34:11

was going to give it to her because also

1:34:14

you thinking back, you know, those

1:34:16

actresses or actors who have been working

1:34:18

the whole life, you

1:34:20

want to give a special price to

1:34:23

them, you know, and because I couldn't

1:34:25

see her. She didn't raise her arm.

1:34:28

So I thought, okay, then I'll keep

1:34:30

it. You

1:34:34

know, that's what I was thinking in me.

1:34:36

I was thinking, okay, then I'll keep it

1:34:38

then. But at

1:34:41

the end, she came to me and she said, well, you

1:34:43

stole my price. And

1:34:48

I said to her, you didn't want it. Thank

1:34:53

you so much for being here. It's always just

1:34:55

a pleasure to watch you on the screen. But

1:34:58

it was a pleasure talking to you today. Yeah,

1:35:00

I'm happy to. Thank you very much for having

1:35:02

me. And the taste of

1:35:04

things is out this weekend. So make sure

1:35:06

you go and see it when we're back.

1:35:09

Keep it. Okay,

1:35:18

we are back with our favorite segment of

1:35:20

the episode. Keep it. Lewis, what's yours? Okay.

1:35:22

So as I brought up earlier, there's this

1:35:25

new Netflix documentary called The Greatest

1:35:27

Night and Pop, which is about how Lionel

1:35:29

Richie, Michael Jackson, Quincy Jones put together We

1:35:31

Are the World, which as a song, I'll

1:35:33

say it's in the A minus B plus

1:35:35

range. You do have to like gulp a

1:35:37

little bit while singing some of these lyrics,

1:35:39

but it is an incredibly catchy song. And

1:35:41

it's of course, in the tradition of, you

1:35:43

know, Band-Aid Do They Know It's Christmas.

1:35:45

Talk about another song where if you look at the

1:35:48

lyrics, you're like, oops, embarrassing. Oops, we

1:35:50

need to not be talking about people

1:35:52

in Africa this way. Moving on. Do they

1:35:55

know it's Christmas? Yeah. Right.

1:35:58

It's a crazy song.

1:36:01

crazy. But anyway, like a lot of

1:36:03

these documentaries that are coming out on streaming

1:36:05

recently, you know, the Bee Gees documentary, the

1:36:07

one on Donna Summer, etc. It

1:36:09

is just toasting these people. Like you're

1:36:11

it's not really critical. You're not getting the sense

1:36:13

of like this is going to be winning Oscar

1:36:16

or anything like that. That

1:36:18

said, it is so much fun to watch this

1:36:21

come together. People agree to the concert,

1:36:23

they're going there after the AMA. So

1:36:25

there's this trickling of people from one

1:36:27

ceremony to another. You watch this like

1:36:29

time is going by and people are

1:36:31

getting restless and they order chicken and

1:36:33

waffles for everybody to eat. So

1:36:35

there's a lot of fun, fun, like anecdotes about

1:36:38

being there. And by the way, Lionel Richie, who

1:36:40

I guess has just been 51 his entire life

1:36:42

and remains 51. It's crazy to

1:36:44

see him just standing there being the same sounding

1:36:46

the same the richness of his voice is not

1:36:48

he looks so good at the grabby. Yes, he

1:36:51

looked amazing. That

1:36:53

said, watching this documentary, they did not address

1:36:55

a number of things that I'm

1:36:57

that I find problematic. And those three things

1:36:59

are number one, you're telling me you got

1:37:01

Bruce Springsteen to do a talking head for

1:37:03

this documentary and you couldn't find Kim Karnes.

1:37:06

Where is she? Where is Kim Karnes? It's

1:37:09

been a million years since we've seen this

1:37:11

woman, the Grammy winner for Betty Davis eyes,

1:37:13

former new Christy minstrel with Kenny Rogers, also

1:37:15

part of we are the world. Where was

1:37:18

he to no explanation for the

1:37:20

fact that Dan Aykroyd is just in the background of

1:37:22

we have the world. We just don't know why he's

1:37:24

there. They don't bring it up. I guess it's awkward

1:37:26

for everybody. I have no idea. But of course, this

1:37:28

was 1984 1985, where he's

1:37:31

like one of the biggest stars in the world. But

1:37:33

speak to that moment. I want to know

1:37:35

why he's there. And lastly, they have all

1:37:37

this awesome footage of Michael preparing for we

1:37:39

are the world and like doing a couple

1:37:41

of takes and talking to the

1:37:43

engineers. It's really cool and shocking to see and

1:37:45

of course, he's in an Imperial thriller mode. So

1:37:47

he looks like the very picture of the biggest

1:37:50

celebrity of all time. And you're

1:37:52

not going to address that Latoya is in the

1:37:54

room. How did this happen? You got to explain

1:37:56

how Latoya got there and also what she contributed

1:37:58

to the record because I'm not really hearing it

1:38:01

on the record. You know what I'm saying? Does

1:38:03

she have a talking head? No, she's not there.

1:38:06

Mmm, you know what? She's

1:38:08

still in Mr. Trump's office. Yeah. Trying

1:38:11

to win the apprentice. Right. Looking

1:38:14

like Cas for the ghost. Yes, right. What

1:38:16

an amazing season of television. Jeannie

1:38:18

called her Cas for the ghost.

1:38:21

Oh my God. Also, I will say

1:38:23

the one moment of self-critical reflection that

1:38:25

occurs in the movie is Sheila E

1:38:28

does an interview and she talks about how they

1:38:30

got her in the studio and then she

1:38:32

felt like they were using her to get to Prince who

1:38:35

of course never shows up. But I just

1:38:37

want to say about Sheila E. Not that she needs

1:38:39

this encouragement from me or anybody. Mm-hmm. At

1:38:41

the AMA's right beforehand, she gives a performance

1:38:43

that is so legendarily electrifying. Please look up

1:38:45

this performance. What? I mean, there is no

1:38:48

second one of Sheila E. I know I

1:38:50

give that compliment all the time. The drumming,

1:38:52

the stage presence, the stage where, the, she's

1:38:55

a virtuosa. There's a reason Prince was obsessed

1:38:58

with her. There's a reason. Mm-hmm. There's a

1:39:00

reason Bruce Springsteen named his band after her.

1:39:04

And the Sheila E. band. That's right. Yeah. They

1:39:08

lived on her street. Where

1:39:10

Sheila's boy. That's

1:39:14

really all I have to say. I found it really entertaining. 90 Minutes

1:39:18

gets you acquainted with the fact that when We Are The

1:39:20

World premiered, it was on every radio station

1:39:22

in the world at the same time. So you would turn

1:39:24

it on and then turn to another radio station. And you

1:39:26

know, it's like World of the Worlds or something. It took

1:39:28

over. So we have not had a moment like that since.

1:39:31

Total monoculture. But did they have

1:39:33

the radio in Africa? They

1:39:36

brought their first radio. Do

1:39:39

they know We Are The World is playing in

1:39:41

Africa? That would be a great follow-up single. Do

1:39:43

they know We Are The World is playing? Okay.

1:39:47

I have, I actually have two

1:39:50

keep-its to be honest. One's a short one. One

1:39:52

is a Barry Lewis coded. Okay. So

1:39:55

I just discovered connections on

1:39:57