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You might know by Mankiewicz as a host

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on Turner Classic Movies. Now you can hear

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been in intimate conversation with some of the

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most influential filmmakers of our time. on the

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new podcast Talking Pictures from Tcm and Max.

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You. Get personal and honest conversations with the greats

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pictures isn't just about movies, it's about the

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about where you were, who you were with,

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and what you were feeling. This

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into talking pictures on max or wherever you

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get your podcasts. Hi there I'm. Lies that

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Powell O'brien and I'm a writer, a reader,

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and the wife of someone you may have

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heard at. And

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I'm here to tell you about the

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newest season of my podcast for Team

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Cocoa significant others. Each. Week

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we tell stories you may not know

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about a person. you probably do. Like.

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An addict, Arnold's whose wife Peggy

0:57

maybe the reason he almost succeeded

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in betraying his country. Look for

1:01

significant others Wherever you get your

1:04

podcasts, And

1:17

we are back for an all

1:19

new episode of Keep It I'm

1:22

Ira most of the third and

1:24

I'm noted independent spirit Louis for

1:26

tell her inspiration on them. Either

1:28

way I walked through life. I

1:32

think of myself as a dependent

1:34

spirit dependent on spirits, yeah, he

1:36

asked if I'd be kind of

1:39

either directly or it's around you.

1:42

I'm literally blinds spirit or actually, oh

1:44

that's nice A Tony for enter our

1:46

lands berry. In your name, I

1:50

would be Angela Lansbury a drive

1:52

spirit I see that for myself

1:54

you will enter a turban arrow

1:56

soon. I see that for you

1:58

get all right. Light A Fire

2:01

added this weekend! Did you see the

2:03

Ah Sag Awards? And What? Barbra Streisand

2:05

more for her lifetime achievement Saying. Yes,

2:08

Excuse me? You know what? She looks like? A

2:10

woman who sells you a mysterious lamp. That a

2:13

bizarre. That's what I thought she looks like. A

2:16

Sahara as? I don't know, that, sort of. I. Bet.

2:19

You take it home as what's

2:21

in his lap, right? right? Barbara

2:24

Eden Yes, Ah

2:26

well. we have a packed episode this

2:29

week. We're doing that into the beginning.

2:31

This we okay, you know just just

2:33

just letting people know what's coming up

2:35

in the episode our our that you

2:38

can turn it off. If.

2:40

You don't care? controversial move. All right. Let's

2:42

go. Are

2:44

we have got a lot of

2:46

news coming up as we've got

2:48

the Independent Spirit Awards happens. Ah

2:50

Joanie Villeneuve were says a D

2:53

V on how does. Have

2:58

you see that you tube videos As you

3:00

know I know they're taught I was dead

3:02

zones way they have my keys from I

3:04

gotta say plan We have doubts. Och

3:08

he had some interesting comments

3:11

about dialogue and films also.

3:14

City. As is out. And.

3:17

As you noted, the as too real

3:19

for the general population. That's my criticism

3:21

of that South Say Diaz was giving

3:23

a slice of reality that even Carrie

3:25

Bradshaw couldn't handle. Guess so this week

3:27

our guest is Deny Guerrero. From

3:30

The Walking Dead, The Ones

3:32

Who Lives Yes, I do.

3:35

Sequel series Precisely what a

3:37

Black Panther legend are unmistakable.

3:39

Presence and Black panther. And.

3:44

To. Lose his cigarette. And

3:47

person. Who gets to be talking about n why? Yeah, That's.

3:50

Right ah at I bought we take to

3:52

the streets in protest after this episode. Actually,

3:56

that was by the way, one

3:58

of my favorite jokes. At

4:00

I'm. The. Spirit Awards from

4:03

a Riot. The. She said something about

4:05

how people from emma you don't shut up about being

4:07

from and my yo and that is just. True,

4:09

I mean, as you'll know from the spot as if

4:11

you listen for even five seconds. Is.

4:13

A tricky game at this point.

4:16

Ah, Also, this week we are

4:18

going to get into the harrowing.

4:21

But. There's really only one way

4:23

to describe it. Harrowing Wendy Williams

4:25

documentary on like Time, Where is

4:28

Wendy Williams? And. Hopefully will get

4:30

into her. Infamous conversation with Whitney

4:32

Houston from about twenty some years ago. Tales

4:34

which is a thrilling lesson. If you haven't

4:36

put it on recently, you have the clutch

4:39

a table while you listen to that interview.

4:41

It's not comfortable for one second. Ah,

4:45

but before that, it's. Was.

4:47

Gonna go to news so i gotta

4:49

hit so. First. Of all. City.

4:52

As. Their. Outs.

4:55

And I. Said i don't mean the closets

4:57

their out also like that so I

4:59

stare out. sounds like it's a d

5:01

as comedy concert. Remember

5:04

the call that a comedy concert meters had a

5:06

person that was a human expression that people say.

5:09

To what? What's actually funny about

5:12

that is? I. Have

5:14

friends who do comedy concerts if

5:16

you go see Larry opens in

5:18

New York City. That's actually the

5:20

definition of a comedy concert. Look

5:22

the best. comedy being done and

5:24

they're saying it. So I guess

5:27

you would call it a meet

5:29

at concerts? Yes right. I read

5:31

Matt Rodgers comedy Concerts. I now

5:33

I like disparagingly calling him a

5:35

musical community. My ah my favorite

5:37

comedian I love when he gets

5:39

out of as of. But

5:42

this also implies that Say Diaz was

5:44

also singing songs that we have a

5:46

heard and boy do I believe that!

5:48

Ah my Goddess. Pluto

5:51

say came out like one of the animate he are

5:53

all three of I'm. A.

5:55

Comedy is comedy say the as seeds

5:57

of on the cutting room floor. Right

6:01

trying out material because the material that

6:03

made it to air again, too real

6:05

for the general population. How hackney that

6:08

was. Things about all I took over

6:10

from my living room to my whatever.

6:12

Oh come on. I.

6:15

Do find it interesting that C

6:17

As is now out. Of course

6:20

there were there with the rumors

6:22

before that Sarah Ramirez was acts

6:24

from the series because of their

6:27

stance on Palestine. And

6:29

people did point out that's. One.

6:31

Of the leads of the series,

6:34

Cynthia Nixon is you out in

6:36

the Streets Season I marches sees

6:38

very box office and way more

6:40

vocal that Thera Ramirez. Frankly. Yes,

6:43

Of course. And there were other

6:45

people trying to devil's advocate that

6:48

online by saying wealth Cynthia Nixon

6:50

as the lead of the south.

6:52

Of course he did say was

6:54

he was he said stupid.rice is

6:56

basically city as had reached their

6:59

natural conclusion, which I'm glad that.

7:01

Michael Patrick Kane realize, but it's

7:04

still. It's still silly

7:06

to me in how long C D as

7:08

last it because we get sick that the

7:10

original Sex In the City when Veranda broke

7:13

up with say D sort of the last

7:15

time we saw. That right? right?

7:17

right? right? No. The Ark that's a D

7:19

As.is longer than most characters would ever get

7:21

on the original Sex in the City. I

7:23

mean, this is basically like John Slattery character

7:25

getting to be on for three seasons and

7:27

or our something. You know, it's. Just.

7:30

Getting pissed on all over the

7:32

senators with his little pencil. Not.

7:36

Actually, that would have been a very

7:38

fine. Art. To have seen

7:40

by the way carry ruining this politicians

7:42

are political career manning that they love

7:45

water sports and that out a know

7:47

him getting revenge. Yeah yeah yeah yeah

7:49

because it didn't really mix with politics

7:51

a lot the original sell or like

7:53

New York New York's person in politics

7:56

which of course would make sense if

7:58

adopted more. Carrie Bradshaw life. Speaking

8:00

of at did you know in the original Sex

8:02

in the City? Candice. Bergen played.

8:05

An. Editor at Vogue right in the final

8:07

season? Scarce Did you know that Candice

8:09

Bergen real life daughter. Runs

8:12

vogue.com now. Oh.

8:15

So. Bizarre should not don't I did

8:17

an interview with her own mom talking

8:20

about the black and white ball from

8:22

ah Sued Company versus the Swans because

8:24

her mom went there and the had

8:26

rhyme from the article is candice Bergen

8:28

doesn't remember of the black or white

8:30

ball was fun which is amazing. To.

8:33

Have a row Average. The article

8:36

was fired get up because I

8:38

can't think of anything more vowed

8:40

then Candice Bergen daughter working there

8:42

and running both.com and also during

8:44

an interview with her mom of

8:46

ssssss yeah right, she does have

8:48

a bit of access They are

8:50

that you know blurs journalistic minds.

8:54

But you know what? I'm just glad sort of

8:56

was it was alive spotted well as both Godfather

8:58

tag please. Yeah, screw up everything else is. Dad

9:00

says no use. every week something gets shuttered and

9:03

you're like I think I knew people who work

9:05

there but then you think was at twenty sixteen

9:07

actually had they not been there for seven years

9:09

in a. And then

9:11

there's buys.com with the subject, which is

9:14

actually. Sit me

9:16

down a rabbit hole of

9:18

reading old vice.com. Articles

9:21

because let me tell you if you

9:23

work there there was a time it's

9:25

when he tends would you were written

9:27

during a vice.com article are probably what

9:29

out that was that was beautiful view

9:31

of are like to buy stocks Hobbes

9:34

guide to partying. Of right, because

9:36

it sort of blurred. It was like. In.

9:38

The like it Rolling Stones hard journalism mixed

9:40

with like the Village Voice right like it

9:43

wanted to be on the streets of New

9:45

York and then also have like a sign

9:47

of global. Scale.

9:50

Is are we do drugs Ah

9:52

Evan was doing ok. Here's the

9:55

parties were at it was it

9:57

was very much. A

9:59

raucous. I'm just using the

10:01

word rock is. I don't know. Well, we've had a lot

10:03

of fun, but now we have to get into the harrowing

10:06

part of the episode. When we get back, we'll

10:08

be discussing Wendy Williams, her

10:10

new documentary on Lifetime, her

10:13

run in with Whitney Houston, and

10:16

whether or not we're all still standing because of all these

10:18

things. And also this

10:20

week, Denis Villeneuve talked about how

10:22

he hates dialogue in films. And

10:25

well, you know, our chatty

10:27

Kathy Lewis has some things to say

10:29

about that. So we will also

10:31

get into that this week. We'll be right

10:34

back. Stop

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11:08

not authorized by any candidate or candidates

11:11

committee. Here

11:20

is Wendy Williams, a Lifetime docuseries about

11:23

the former talk show host dropped over

11:25

the weekend. Those of us

11:27

who were hoping for some tea on Wendy's

11:29

absence since her show was canceled and

11:32

said we're faced with a heartbreaking

11:34

reality of Wendy's cognitive and emotional

11:37

decline in the documentary that is

11:39

not only, as we

11:41

said, harrowing, but also

11:44

exploitative. Well, there's

11:46

a lot of questions going on here because, as

11:49

you said, it's clear she has advanced

11:51

dementia in certain ways. So Obviously

11:54

she can't agree to certain things. And In fact,

11:56

during a lot of this movie, she's talking about

11:58

what she thinks is her plan. Back

12:00

on television. Mom and behold, she is on our

12:02

televisions. Yeah are also

12:04

by the way to point out what

12:06

Wendy Williams has. A lot of articles

12:09

have let people know that it is

12:11

the same. Targeted. Disease

12:13

that Bruce Willis aphasia right so

12:15

soon see won't be as a

12:17

recognize faces at all. basically. But

12:20

part of the disease that she

12:23

has if it was it was

12:25

also a just had to figure

12:27

out whether or not it was

12:29

a natural decline when there was

12:31

a lot of sort of insinuation

12:33

that it is alcohol induced as

12:36

well. Many of her target of

12:38

issues add less us. Talk about

12:40

that First, the. Documentary

12:42

really leans in on.

12:45

Wendy. Has a drinking problems right? Yes and

12:47

like have been So be at a restaurant later

12:49

on with her family and they like it's still

12:51

like instinctively ask for a drink and then they

12:54

say to change into a coke or something. so

12:56

if it comes up again and again. Yeah,

12:59

and a particularly in some of

13:01

the last parts of the documentary

13:03

which is it's four episodes that

13:05

aired on Saturday and Sunday on

13:08

Lifetime. Ah, the bottles. party size

13:10

bottles been found in her bathroom,

13:12

Being found in her bad. Ah,

13:14

that was sort of the part

13:16

that they were leaning into with

13:19

she's drinking a lot. But first

13:21

of all, I just want to

13:23

talk about the fact that a

13:25

lot of people were saying this

13:27

documentary feals. Exploited what

13:30

did see consent to

13:32

on. His. Lifetime profiting

13:35

off of this in sort of

13:37

an evil way. and. I

13:40

want to say that I felt that way. In.

13:42

The first. Couple. Of

13:44

episodes of it the first two parts of

13:46

her two hours. The. Sunday

13:48

night episodes. I

13:51

don't know if I felt that it

13:53

was particularly. Exploitative of

13:55

her. I actually feel

13:58

like. The. Last. Half

14:00

of the documentary was the part

14:02

that we really needed to see

14:04

stuff so that the documentary starts

14:07

out with. They were planning to

14:09

document her podcast Combat, right? And.

14:12

Then it became very clear that this podcast was never

14:14

happening. And. I

14:18

couldn't even tell if it was her

14:20

manager and will get to him, not

14:22

if it was his incompetence or is

14:24

he really thought that this was how

14:26

businesses supposed to be done in regards

14:28

to the park? Ask? is this one

14:31

scene where cease being interviewed about when

14:33

this a podcast coming and know like

14:35

maybe says it a pilot Yeah like

14:37

let people know like what they're getting

14:39

and his responses strategy you don't think

14:41

that's gonna get I'll ruin the say

14:44

are you now if we give him

14:46

some of the sauce too early. Of

14:48

like what are you talking about else oh

14:50

it's Wendy Williams like he was. Just use

14:52

a good people a taste of what it's

14:55

going to be. The thing that they will

14:57

eventually by yachts. We also know what it's

14:59

going to be about. Yeah. Wendy. You

15:01

know that I don't think that she

15:03

was going to do a hard shift.

15:05

It's who suddenly hosting Red Scare? Yes!

15:07

Assist Assist Assist that suggests a real

15:10

sense from Wendy Williams. But.

15:13

The. Second half of it was really the

15:16

part where I think. You. Get

15:18

into. The conservative

15:20

set. That. She was placed under

15:22

are legally the New York courts. A

15:24

said sleep took power away from her

15:26

family. Her son Kevin used to have

15:29

power of attorney and that it was

15:31

decided that since he was spending too

15:33

much of her money he I was

15:35

in a eighty thousand dollars a year

15:37

apart. Mans ah be spending about a

15:39

hundred thousand dollars a year on rubric

15:42

eats. That's how much I spend a

15:44

month in New York So I've had

15:46

was not what deal it's A at

15:48

A by any of our I am

15:50

a. Muslim door

15:52

to sway prisoners That things. And.

15:55

Then. Power. Was

15:57

given to. This. Rand.

16:00

The woman. ah we. We

16:02

now know that Honeybees Summer

16:04

More Seats Advocacy Suda Lifetime

16:06

to try and get the

16:08

documentary to not be aired.

16:12

But this brings up I was watching

16:14

it with a friend and they were

16:16

asked me a lot about the comparisons

16:18

between this and Britney Spears and right

16:20

I mean that's immediately what would come

16:22

to mind for people or maybe that

16:24

Amanda Bynes and the difference here is

16:26

Britney was very specifically a same where

16:28

we learn that her father and certain

16:30

other family members were taking advantage of

16:32

her and this was harder. But as

16:34

the family for the most part. Seems.

16:37

Very loving. Seems. Like they're

16:39

very concerned for her. As it

16:41

would it really brought up they have even and experts

16:43

hundred and talks about on. Guardian. Says

16:45

and house the courts Now just like

16:48

not putting people under family carry more

16:50

on. I don't know how. Your.

16:52

Placed under a conservatorship or

16:54

guardianship. And then seen been

16:57

news that we would see about Windy

16:59

over the past year rising out the

17:01

Louis Baton store being just as wrong

17:03

and sort of been on instagram lie

17:05

been crazy right? right right snow. Also

17:07

the family at least to our eyes

17:09

as explicitly like we hope this errors

17:11

and people understand now what we've gone

17:13

through so at least there and it

17:15

doesn't feel about and like and they're

17:17

clearly very loving towards her and you

17:19

see these interactions with are that are

17:21

also a bit instructive. I'd hate to

17:23

say because we don't have a lot

17:25

of. You series that I've seen about dealing

17:27

with someone with a visa with advanced dementia?

17:29

Because let me be clear, it's. Narrative.

17:32

Features about the subject are bracing enough,

17:34

you know if you put on still

17:36

hours or a more you do. I

17:38

would say these are very respected movies

17:40

and also the least we watched movies

17:43

and history because they are so. Toss

17:46

you know like nobody's like oh it's Christmas

17:48

I'm at put on away from her. You

17:50

know it's like it's hard look at spin

17:52

up. And so watching

17:54

Mess, which documents a real person ember very

17:56

familiar with how she was before this all

17:58

began, so we're making. Paris and

18:00

between you know, the Nicotine

18:03

split. Compulsively articulate and funny

18:05

and bid see Wendy Williams

18:07

it compared to what's He

18:09

is now. This. Was

18:11

among the most harrowing things I've seen all

18:13

year. Like of the past year I will

18:15

remember watching it and not knowing it was

18:18

going to quote unquote go so hard. every

18:20

scene just her looking at the camera, not

18:22

looking like the same person see used to

18:24

be. In a way I think it's like

18:27

kind of an important back but not to

18:29

say it's not exploited M in certain ways,

18:31

but I just can't think of another thing

18:33

like at about a celebrity you know, Just.

18:37

As seats. The thing that really sort

18:39

of makes it instructive here is the

18:41

fact that we know. We.

18:43

Know when the Williams yeah you let

18:45

you talk about he used to be

18:48

party and bit see our at really

18:50

just great with one liners. and of

18:52

course there was always that bit of

18:54

her personality that was a little bit.

18:57

Off. Or out of bounds and road?

18:59

Yes yes yes visit be talking about

19:01

some vague of it. Also abruptly shift

19:03

is almost like she had a D

19:06

D jazz. Ah would see be just

19:08

talking about a topic of the. Five.

19:10

Different topics were sub a lot of her mouth

19:12

with in one minute. This.

19:15

Has turned that into a kind

19:17

of uncomfortable meanness. I think that

19:19

there was a lot. There are

19:21

a lot of scenes where. What?

19:24

Would sort of used to be

19:26

funny her commenting on how someone's

19:28

dress store you know, saying something

19:31

else about someone else. In

19:33

the media. Her commenting

19:36

just on anybody who came to the

19:38

house the woman doing her nails for

19:40

instance or and assists dad's it was

19:42

just me and and was a sort

19:44

of nasty and. You. Could

19:46

tell that see what didn't even know

19:48

that she was doing and know it's is.

19:51

I think that's kind of part of

19:53

what makes this disease so tough is

19:55

like it just brings your sort of

19:57

phobias and. You.

20:00

Mean predilections to the for like you

20:02

can't filter them and so you just

20:04

be com this person who is unable

20:06

to say anything that isn't. Rude

20:09

in certain cases In ops. No.

20:11

I do want to say that I'm also

20:14

grateful for the third part of this series.

20:16

the There's a Part Where Windy. Goes.

20:19

To L A without telling her

20:21

manager without selling the Family without

20:23

selling the. Legal Guardian at

20:26

goes with this publicists that

20:28

she's had around her saw

20:30

on who is essentially trying

20:32

to replace the manager. And.

20:36

She. Takes her to L A for

20:38

a meeting with Nbc Universal. We

20:40

don't get to see the meeting.

20:43

But. There is no way that meeting where

20:46

well now and the moment where Wendy's

20:48

is on the sidewalk look into Hollywood

20:50

Star Us as some of the dolls

20:52

pass by her don't like with the

20:54

we love You add as like they

20:56

were actually sub body parts of the

20:58

documentary. ah uncomfortably body parts he says

21:00

i have this beat it with Nbc

21:02

Universal at I think one of the

21:04

Dallas has boots. We

21:07

say that systems to this is that I'd rather than a

21:09

year and a half ago two years ago I set up

21:11

by I want to emphasize that as a boots. Other times.

21:13

I'm still part of the father has. Ah

21:17

but she's dressed in this

21:19

good see taught be sort

21:21

sorts fish that stock eggs.

21:24

Are. Lara Croft, hiking

21:26

through the an Arctic boots and talking

21:28

about how the Windy so is going

21:30

to be more sexy like this and

21:33

to get are not gonna be dressed

21:35

up glam and dresses and days that

21:37

the Wendy Williams so used to be

21:39

she's she's younger as he sexy and

21:42

ass as he talking about has is

21:44

painted going to Nbc Universal and and

21:46

How To See This Woman's Rising Windy

21:48

Around this point was the As Windy.

21:51

Do. You want to go to the Oscars? And.

21:54

Wendy's like What? If

21:56

like the awards show. It

21:59

was horrified. In I feel

22:01

like. Yes, Lifetime might

22:03

have been. There. Are parts

22:05

of this that are exploited if you could

22:07

say? But I also feel like at some

22:09

point the people making the so the people

22:11

who had worked with her on previous documentaries

22:13

are watching this. Unfolds,

22:15

And are documenting it because they want people

22:17

to see what's happening to her, right? right?

22:20

right? Also, I was very touched by certain

22:22

people. talking with Monday

22:24

like by China at the beginning ah tamper

22:26

settlement and of and I was like. Okay,

22:29

everybody needs a friend Like Latina, our

22:31

society I did not understand at this

22:33

moment was so soulful or it was

22:36

really lovely watching her lovingly deal with

22:38

a friend who obviously was not one

22:40

but see once was and I think

22:42

it also task into that windy that

22:45

we sort of didn't Now the windy

22:47

who are. She. Says that when

22:49

you use a big front of her as whiteside

22:51

are obviously cause you to her hot topics but

22:53

was he went on the south. Sea

22:56

had as a sweetness to her as she

22:58

said can I call you Eds right? You

23:00

feel like eggs were to me, not whiteside

23:02

Know when you're sitting in front of me

23:04

And as he says that they went out

23:06

for food after words and thus then would

23:08

continue to hang out. It reminded me of.

23:11

That veneer to sort of drops when

23:13

you're front of some people as you

23:15

remember, A few years ago when

23:17

I when I'm Wendy Williams cells as we're

23:20

doing that hot topic pat off as soon

23:22

as soon as the So wraps. Our

23:24

answers taking a picture and seat sort of

23:27

grabs my arm and she was like that

23:29

was so much fun. You're coming back. You.

23:31

Are great! And it's a silly before

23:34

cove it happens or the obviously I never

23:36

went back and then that decried now but

23:38

we started but just to see her like

23:40

our business and then right after that still

23:43

in that moment just saying it into my

23:45

ear. wow we're taking a photo in the

23:47

crowd is also them like that is the

23:49

woman that she really was and I think

23:52

that also explains why. For.

23:54

Such a polarizing figure. Who.

23:57

Would say a lot to meet a nasty things about people

23:59

in the media. There's also still so much love

24:01

for her. Yeah, right, right right. Will. Also, it's

24:03

like even though she would be incendiary from time

24:05

to time, see wouldn't say to me too much

24:08

that was. I mean, I can think of times

24:10

where I have been literally mad at once he

24:12

said. but for the most parts you want somebody

24:14

to be unfiltered about celebrities and the world they

24:16

live and you know it's like had just you're

24:19

waiting for somebody to say it for you. And

24:22

Boots brings us to the topic of her

24:24

conversation with Whitney Houston from twenty years ago,

24:26

which we must get into. Listening

24:29

to this back. The

24:31

same that that sticks out to me

24:34

most. Whitney. Houston, much as see

24:36

is digging at Wendy and kind of

24:38

poking at her and occasionally as angry

24:40

and is occasionally seemingly unhinged. There's really

24:42

nothing you can say to unseat Wendy

24:44

Williams because she sort of owns being

24:46

trashy our own be an hour of

24:48

mean. So at the end of the

24:50

day like Whitney Houston saying things like

24:53

you just run your mouth and said,

24:55

well, that's exactly what she does Correct,

24:57

You know it's like it's like. The

25:00

she has no defenses. Actually, that makes it better

25:02

for. And

25:04

there's also a part were.

25:08

Of when you could. So, Whitney's

25:10

join sparring with us taught Yes.

25:12

Because because Whitney Houston is extremely

25:14

witty. Yeah.

25:17

And. There's just a moment where you

25:19

will have that anymore. It's it's It's

25:21

really a celebrity, some spar with each

25:23

other anymore like that when he had

25:25

it on her. so. I

25:28

read this as a Rosso who

25:30

does it justified as well as

25:32

a bloodline of that project over

25:34

us. Aware of Bethenny Frankel on

25:36

her talk show ah was used

25:38

by i worked at the White

25:40

House. you bake cupcakes. ah, those

25:42

moments, but there aren't really people

25:44

who spar like that anymore. As

25:46

big as mostly because we've gotten

25:48

away from Radio. We've.

25:50

Gotten away from really interesting talk

25:52

shows to be honest, know say

25:55

to karaoke Yes! Even

25:57

have the town has been house Howard Stern once.

26:00

In what he is now, he's obviously still

26:02

a fabulous radio hosts, but it's there's not.

26:04

There's not a sense of really digging at

26:06

a guest on the shower, like being able

26:08

to say mean by like critical in a

26:10

way this reminds me be Independent Spirit Awards

26:13

this week and now I thought eighty Bryant

26:15

had an amazing jobs but the way in

26:17

which see said i feel like being a

26:19

real award show host right now I'm and

26:21

a make fun of the audience and then

26:24

she just said Natalie Portman you stupid bets

26:26

and then like side away from like split

26:28

The joke was she was supposed. To make

26:30

like a real roast joke about Natalie Portman, it

26:32

just came out on thanks offensive But it's the

26:35

same time as be like that's the tenor of

26:37

most celebrities in that position now. Likes: I'm gonna

26:39

play at being mean, but I'm not being mean

26:41

at all. In fact, it's pretty sex, you know,

26:44

whereas Wendy Williams would get up there and say

26:46

Natalie Portman here. my A Problems With: I ranked

26:48

from. Ah,

26:52

Abusers of Berwick Early of

26:55

a doctor every were seized,

26:57

flipping through magazines and. Of

27:00

the season ccs a photo of

27:02

zero at bad it's be I

27:05

presume they got first got back

27:07

together As you fight with this

27:09

graph your own problem with her.

27:12

So dump him immediately. See.

27:14

Jobs all about. That's a problem. at

27:18

users midst of with talking about celebrities

27:20

that way or the radio so was

27:23

on would call in or it's harsher

27:25

where they would even be some tension

27:27

to be had. A

27:29

deep the last. Ten.

27:32

Spilt talk show moment that we got. It

27:34

was last week and we didn't even get

27:36

to see the tense moment I'm of course

27:38

talking about. Telling. Roman on the

27:40

today. so oh yes, where she lost because

27:43

the dressing room wasn't big enough And who

27:45

did get the big dressing room? Zola? was

27:47

that Cars? Yeah it had a big one

27:49

which is. Why

27:52

she always of a seat of a

27:54

drive? Yes. Assisted assists, Rights compare notes

27:57

Cops She's always that got to. All

28:00

roads lead back to Zola. Yes, Right,

28:02

Right, Right! Split Zola was in the

28:05

dressing room that Kelly wanted to the

28:07

probably they offered her this broom closet.

28:09

saw a people Did Simon to say

28:12

that the rooms are notoriously very small.

28:14

Ah, Betsy. Franco even times

28:16

And this is what I mean

28:18

about the radio sort of vibe

28:20

Bessie Frankel is. We'd now just

28:22

mostly have celebrities like Bethany or

28:24

as a Banks are Nicky who

28:26

do the rats online and yeah

28:28

and jump out in as a

28:30

live streams yeah but there's no

28:32

interaction with other people. You. Know

28:35

is this sort of themselves is what

28:37

we have now, but. Rita.

28:39

Ora is the one who ended up with.

28:42

The room she came in last minute. And.

28:45

Ah, replace Kelly Romans on the

28:48

south, which you know what? If

28:51

you stay ready set every or as a

28:53

threat is see that like a starting line.

28:55

She's like slow joe imposition but it's a

28:57

dart out so well as that are. So

29:01

what else did point out? By the way, The.

29:04

Differences: Kelly Rowland lives in Los Angeles

29:06

and flying in with a team and

29:08

probably different wardrobes ages is more difficult

29:10

than Rita Ora. Being in New York

29:12

gets above I just running over already

29:14

addressed and most celebrities. you do the

29:16

today So if you're in New York

29:18

you're probably just getting dressed at home.

29:21

You're not doing other things with in

29:23

a wrestling room where you need it

29:25

is still a tighter. Yeah,

29:27

okay you don't really hear about them anymore. I have

29:29

a when you put like literally up the other we

29:31

can I was like or Dakota Johnson and Chris Martin

29:33

still together they are. You just never hear about The

29:36

two of them are to spell cast on the madam

29:38

leather that all right now. Well.

29:40

If you fall of on instagram you

29:42

see photos of her with tiger but

29:44

I will say the server of I'm

29:46

dating Tiger Woods he were getting married

29:49

sort of stopped after the wedding right?

29:51

right? just like in real life and

29:53

as got a good luck to them

29:56

like to them. It's.

30:00

I wanna talk about. Another

30:02

with the moreover that. Out.

30:04

Of it was the river do better with

30:06

she called the. Monitor.

30:09

At the singer, Monica hung up

30:11

on her yes, hello about her

30:13

to sit. There

30:16

is a fake i guess where these to

30:18

do were to try to call the celebrity

30:20

for but said it was somebody else oh

30:22

my god that is because it was windy

30:24

if they do it was ready call a

30:26

they would that take that call embroidered wouldn't

30:28

see claim to be like one nine hundred

30:30

flowers like what but expectancy of afraid to

30:32

exactly but others also bride carry hung up

30:34

on her words. She

30:36

would just mixes up with these people. see both are also

30:38

that's the other thing see. Clearly does love them

30:40

but then also was not and numbered

30:43

of them. That was the difference between

30:45

Wendy Williams and most like celebrity interviews.

30:49

Get this. There's still this sort of need for

30:51

a lot of people, But I mean, look at

30:53

us. Play. Rough somebody comes out as

30:55

out add six The first big other

30:57

routes that is the best thing anyone

30:59

has ever thought about made his with

31:01

spice about would be it's route Yeah

31:03

right as it was. Just keep a

31:05

go at it up. Ah assistance. Rare

31:08

that someone comes in and it's rare

31:10

that a celebrity by the way even

31:12

goes on an interview with someone who

31:14

they know that they have tension with,

31:16

right? And yeah by what they put

31:18

themselves in that position, you know. And

31:20

now that there's several channels now that

31:22

social media exists is a so. Much

31:24

easier for celebrities to control their own narrative.

31:26

That way you don't have to experience the

31:28

tents and of sitting down with Wendy Williams

31:30

are being on her radio show, etc. because

31:33

he does speak to the public yourself right

31:35

now. See Way of course is an exception

31:37

to this rule and See plays with tension

31:39

in the whole point you would get on

31:41

the so as tension is the gimmick. That

31:43

said I don't know what forms to going

31:46

to take. The next couple years we had

31:48

the way do the what would your Santos

31:50

thing but. I. Don't know what's happening for

31:52

her in the future, but I would also say

31:54

there was more censored in to Instagram lives. Yes,

31:56

right? right? right? Well as because there were the

31:58

comments from the people watch the ring and there

32:00

was the sense that this was a little bit

32:02

more dangerous. You know that sort sense of things

32:04

until dangerous to me are now right right, right?

32:07

He arguably even kind of one and a certain

32:09

way since you know he's among the worst public

32:11

said you may have ever had. and he came

32:13

out of it looking, you know, like a witty

32:15

build a bear, which is what he's always dressed

32:17

like. Which. Is also

32:19

what do you think about the fact that

32:21

have even been talking about Sword Santos and

32:23

Span now of your that was his last

32:25

gas up. Here's a platform and I'm on

32:27

and people can see that and funny but

32:29

even that he's not important enough to keep

32:31

going. So the point is Wendy

32:33

Williams but you stood for but you still

32:35

stands or to me. Important.

32:38

Honestly, she said Bourton Figure

32:40

Spear and I just hope

32:42

that this documentary, if anything,

32:44

comes out of it. Someone

32:47

in the family who actually cares about her.

32:50

Gets control over her

32:53

again and also. If

32:55

you just throw money at Wells Fargo, pull

32:58

it out Okay ssssss as the other bastards

33:00

of if Wells Fargo want to see can

33:02

say will Five or got my money Such

33:05

a flashy back dog undergrad at Loyola Adams

33:07

like you know what was part of the

33:09

fuck with my money to the music man

33:11

really set up unrealistic expectations as Applause Fargo

33:14

to me. Shirley

33:16

Jones. I blame help. The

33:19

Wells Fargo wagon let's talk

33:21

about as ssssss snacks we

33:23

have denied or era. Joining.

33:26

Us to talk about her return

33:28

to the Wasn't Dead universe in

33:30

the new spin off series, The

33:33

Ones Who Live. And. We're

33:35

also going to talk to her about theater,

33:37

etc. so. When.

33:51

You think of the messiest celebrities

33:54

views of all time. Who

33:56

comes to minds. Besides.

33:58

Me and Louis. Taylor

34:00

Swift, A Scooter Braun Purse Hope Members:

34:03

You Lohan. Or. Just about anyone

34:05

from any reality Tv franchise doesn't Tell

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is a podcast from Wonder. It's hosted

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Waist And when you may

34:59

have heard s. And I'm

35:01

here to tell you about the new

35:03

season of Need to Test. It seems

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as though significant others each week we

35:07

tell stories you may not know that

35:09

a person you probably do. Like

35:12

an addict, animals whose wife Peggy

35:14

maybe the reason he almost succeeded

35:16

in betraying his country look for

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significant others were for you. Get

35:21

your podcast. So

35:25

you're saying with Hilton honors I

35:27

can use points for three nights

35:29

stay anywhere anyway as fancy places

35:32

like The Canopy in Paris Hilton

35:34

on his baby for relaxing sanctuaries

35:36

make the Conrad and to lose

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Hilton honors baby. What about

35:41

the side? So Waldorf Astoria in the

35:43

Maltese and you. Can do this for

35:45

all seven thousand hotels and resorts when

35:47

you are points to can take you

35:49

anywhere it matters for used just say

35:51

this day. There

36:00

is a hero of the modern

36:02

era using definitely knows as in

36:04

the washing data for the Black

36:06

Panther. But lest we

36:08

forget, she's also a U N Women

36:11

Goodwill Ambassador and a Tony nominated playwright.

36:13

So truly she can do at all.

36:15

She's back on our screens in The

36:17

Walking Dead, The Ones Who Lives and

36:20

we are so thrilled to welcome to

36:22

keep it the in some terrible, denied

36:24

or era hello. Say.

36:28

I am fabulous! How are you deny? same

36:30

tier of state? Sen Dess and. Dead.

36:35

I. Still think of The Walking Dead as a

36:37

new show because it as you know state of

36:39

the are you would never watch the show and

36:41

think it belongs anywhere else in time but the

36:44

presents. The So it has now been on so

36:46

long you are like the Fraser Crane of zombie

36:48

characters. Just generations

36:50

of view on this show when you

36:52

began your journey with the so did

36:55

you ever think it would be this

36:57

long lasting this epic. Had.

37:00

No idea I'm it's always nice you

37:02

know for me with asking is always kind

37:05

of unexpected like oh this come from

37:07

okay this is Crazy arm and it's disappointing

37:09

to sort of thing when I could never

37:11

have thought of the so as as

37:13

character on in his his ass and before

37:15

his his change denier and eyes as

37:17

like oh my god I. Love.

37:20

A disciplined doing. I love the show and get.

37:22

Of Horus Land. Watched it and I

37:24

came in season three years and caught

37:26

up to that. Really was in love

37:28

with the character on the page. on

37:30

to imagine that would go that far

37:33

as did not think that way to

37:35

the Los Angeles hello. To. The source

37:37

of heat. Switch. The longest

37:39

hello hello hello. I'm

37:41

I'm still alive. Another tests. Is

37:44

going on in my As database. Not

37:46

many people get to ask themselves that

37:48

question. wow what a rare moments of

37:51

them and guess is that was said

37:53

And then I have to ask you

37:55

know you exited the series after Andrew

37:57

exit as well but now you're. Characters

38:00

are reunited on The Walking Dead

38:02

The Ones Who Live At What's

38:04

It Like To. Sit.

38:07

As play a character and

38:09

then to. Rejoin.

38:12

Again, at were you prepared to

38:14

play Masonic and. See. The

38:16

thing that we have done was as

38:19

as an accident. He said he wanted.

38:21

To complete the narrative than a

38:23

different forums such as Character and

38:25

Down and wanted. To.

38:27

Pursue that with. Me so

38:30

let's no photos on.

38:32

The page and then when I left it

38:34

was a conceptual. Thing I was going to come

38:37

back and do we have both. Left and it's sort

38:39

of the. As. The her the

38:41

the.dot.ah to the store and

38:43

ask him sitting there but

38:45

not being and my character

38:47

ah finding proof that he

38:49

was still alive and done

38:51

seeking to to and not.

38:53

Else for synopsis says that that

38:56

does as she would as we

38:58

know she not that type of

39:01

person sees this is a sea

39:03

of mission through so especially to

39:05

send him since he definitely. Was.

39:08

Always employee the plan to consider

39:11

America. We. Have the form it took. In

39:13

the time it took as a whole

39:15

other story but the first. But

39:17

the plans for their for to can

39:20

accomplish what we will look at his

39:22

accomplice which is suppose you propose these

39:24

characters have this that of ethics laws

39:26

and they are. You know she's fine,

39:28

he's alive and we know he's still

39:30

alive. So we. Knew we knew ultimately we

39:32

have become a complete the narrative and some form

39:35

by stepping away for you note and as a

39:37

different reasons we did. Earn from

39:39

the Mother said I'm move. Ultimately

39:42

though, the characters with the weather

39:44

the sword would be returned to

39:46

assess. Now

39:50

you said when you started the so you

39:52

did much hard to do a overtime become

39:54

more interested in this honor or have you

39:56

stayed away from it generally speaking unless of

39:58

course are you know we'll innocent. You

40:01

know I am still has that had

40:03

no interest in the process of adding

40:06

that is seen as many nations is

40:08

more so Obama is t live alone

40:10

or with of existence of us will

40:13

to lose access amigos and that doors

40:15

lock and more time you know like

40:17

I did not much as yet very.

40:20

Hyperactive: Me: messy so I don't like

40:22

are. Ah, skill, but I

40:24

I don't mind. The.

40:26

Part of a stretch out of

40:29

the Saturn Awards the couple weeks

40:31

ago and. It. Is full of

40:33

of the people from all these owners and

40:35

is is quite a coup. bunch of folks

40:37

at but I still care and in hand

40:39

with them on that round but is not.

40:41

On the screen as is brought to love.

40:44

The work that integrates with the

40:46

codes and sausage. ah you know,

40:48

special makeup? Artist and for are

40:51

shown created. All that that amazing

40:53

poor and I did grow some

40:55

love. The the artistry

40:57

behind what he did. And.

41:00

The gore itself. And. How much

41:02

can be found? One has to be covered it. It's.

41:04

Dead or Alive on that show. Ah,

41:07

article You know I grew to love.

41:09

The artistry behind the horror and that may

41:11

be sort of them. Be T

41:13

like that is T was teams. In

41:15

terms of my experience of this, I'm

41:17

on the screen for A for that

41:19

one show, but everything else enough I'm

41:22

still. I'm still not into that, not

41:24

as are still. Are

41:28

worth one for your what to ask

41:30

you about I'm we know the you

41:32

are this amazing actress but you are

41:35

also. Are really fucking good

41:37

playwright and I've had the pleasure of

41:39

seeing some of your work from and

41:41

have also had the pleasure of seeing

41:44

you in jail. time has come and

41:46

gone on eyes or lesser job like

41:48

Guy Jobs or yes I saw that

41:50

production of Arab Leaders Are Broadway debut

41:53

As a sort of my Favorite Players

41:55

by August Wilson and Er want to

41:57

ask you about being a playwright? what.

42:00

This is you about the craft

42:02

and crafting your own characters and

42:04

then what freedom you feel then

42:06

stepping into other things and not

42:08

having to worry about any of

42:10

that. I

42:12

really, that's so funny. Saw that say the

42:14

so. Long ago. as amazing am

42:16

I Just saw I saw recently

42:19

and we're. Just reminiscing about it.

42:21

She's off of the my grad

42:23

school though we're there were little

42:25

and little bit of a little

42:27

family so it was a separate

42:29

casesa there. and the beliefs of

42:31

others and sense ah but yeah

42:33

even love me some muslims often

42:36

because of a couple times out

42:38

of the. Terms. Of insulin. A

42:40

letter flopped because there's something

42:42

so unapologetic about. His voice

42:44

not contaminated and never would

42:46

have could spot is. More

42:48

about the fact that he has such a

42:50

clear. Unapologetic boys from

42:52

the world that is illuminating

42:54

and sometimes one needs a

42:56

reminder and out of their own

42:59

unapologetically levels pounds and to

43:01

be such a powerful message

43:03

station about for. For. Myself

43:05

as a black rule the yeah I

43:07

thought about this for them since the

43:09

could not find any murders. That.

43:12

Told a story that one of the

43:14

pounds million as are feeding the mother

43:16

of and Molson all this about of

43:18

Hong Kong on toys and lot of

43:20

are born in the mid west bank

43:23

or my parents are here for diversity

43:25

in a matter of my father's have

43:27

a year and then to and babbel

43:29

mousepad this is all for grew up

43:31

there came back here for college and

43:33

the here since largely and was was

43:35

like i'm aware the story around you

43:37

know and I'm studying this call oh

43:39

cool father saw the low or little.

43:42

Less than a multidimensional.

43:44

The pluses: Observe

43:46

the potholes and. Really

43:49

come out and unacceptable.

43:51

So I just had started doing

43:53

it myself and down. but then

43:55

I found Brazilian. that considers a

43:57

joint often is when you see

43:59

people. That you know that often

44:01

Don't that lead role get a lead

44:03

role? This one I suspect our names

44:06

are Tamiami for my place because she

44:08

I'm with authentically of i called convert

44:10

to the. Lead in math and them

44:12

you know see that. she been acting

44:14

and really a very respected a theater

44:16

actor to New York hundred years but

44:19

she hadn't had a lead role till

44:21

you know So I'm. A

44:23

geek so she got the wrong. And converts and

44:25

that over what happened to black women you

44:27

know is that they don't at the helm

44:29

a narrative very often and what that from

44:31

have given me the most pleasure and the

44:33

most. Joy. Is to swim

44:35

black. Women the preferred in the

44:37

center of a murder and arm. And

44:39

v that the sadness be better for you.

44:43

And they're not. Be on the side, not

44:45

be supporting a smart you know the. To

44:47

be the helmer and were so

44:50

obviously capable of that. But it's

44:52

surprising how rarely happens and performance

44:54

as example of that probably. She

44:57

said that that you are the most joy. Well

44:59

he. He. Money to continue to

45:01

create. Is there's so many stories

45:03

I feel hadn't been told and don't

45:05

have told. On them and their

45:08

said when they love In my head

45:10

I I have to pursue them because.

45:13

I feel able bless many. Hours

45:15

and then black. Women like Me repeat and

45:17

younger. Also nominated for a Tony for Eclipse

45:19

we should mention and I wonder for you

45:21

but we brought about how general a sailor

45:24

who was just in this movie origin which

45:26

Iran I discussed ah on the podcast were

45:28

talking about just how awesome it is to

45:31

see somebody or a lead character whose whole

45:33

thing is on others. An emotional component to

45:35

the story is really just about somebody who's

45:37

intellectually curious and I was wondering what role

45:40

have you to seem wherever and plays movies

45:42

whenever that you think Oh thank God. That's.

45:45

Out there are other any I Rose performances

45:47

you've seen recently that speak to this need.

45:49

You have done like up roles that are

45:51

cool that you would that you yourself would

45:54

have liked to have written. perhaps. Oh

45:57

wow, I'm I'm Yes.

46:00

Brilliant example and of

46:02

course these astounding on.

46:04

Filmmaker. A the do and a so

46:07

brilliant that as well I'm and you know

46:09

since just in love with him that her

46:11

own. Arm.

46:14

Oh. God for the on the spot. With that.

46:17

Ah, Many

46:19

characters. I mean I'm sure it's rare that you

46:21

know a you know enough come around for you

46:24

to just raj. Yes,

46:27

Yes, and I just think of what

46:30

I've watched recently. as soon as in

46:32

in a bit of a have an

46:34

eating Robin mode am. Pacific you

46:36

know I would be. What is the blast?

46:38

Resound That vessels. Going to my mind

46:40

me since think. About

46:42

our other. Says thou the

46:45

rams. Were question? yeah. Now

46:47

I'm on honey. Herself I don't

46:50

see exists other than that of a five.

46:52

It's. Ah,

46:54

hopefully. You know her through the

46:56

years ago. I will be out of her that our

46:58

her of her. Her she has

47:00

an active operation fast as I

47:02

was. In

47:04

the. Black lungs on, but

47:07

the law has a dog

47:09

definitely doing. Lucky enough to

47:11

allow. For. Women too

47:13

small to be. Often.

47:16

Of us you know thing because you

47:18

think of in the viola down both

47:20

a beautiful example you know even. With

47:22

her show on. Com hundred

47:24

with murder and then and only recently

47:26

with woman thing. You know that that's

47:28

when referring to crack. Into New. Include

47:32

examples of how. Yeah.

47:34

Yeah, the show us and all of

47:36

our all of this, all of our

47:38

complexity. None of them out there and

47:41

let it be unapologetic and that a

47:43

commodity And how madame story was interesting

47:45

when blacks have a came out I

47:47

even when you're care to debut in

47:49

Washington if you like you spearheaded two

47:52

characters who were on my black woman.

47:54

We'd seat on C B before I

47:56

think ushered in this new john robbed

47:58

as being a pussy, black women play

48:00

characters. I guess I think of the

48:02

Woman King as something that is probably

48:05

beneficial to black Panthers. Are you seeing

48:07

more just for filling characters? In.

48:09

Television and film that you're being offered

48:11

on on more for on other women

48:13

that you work with him, consider peers

48:15

and friends and to be able to

48:17

get those roles as well having to

48:20

them. This

48:23

season second one was and does it come

48:25

out the more more it becomes. Like. Obviously

48:28

the city and that she didn't

48:30

want. And you see a single

48:32

thing Vocal Folds you know the

48:34

story is told. From about the south

48:36

of and and. He

48:38

must have. A

48:40

little bit warmer is insane. It's

48:42

insists. That of the same signed in all and.

48:44

I am my native tongue my parents

48:46

language center. Which I

48:49

wish. As for better say the word that

48:51

means as as simple as a word this

48:53

is of Canada Which means there's work to

48:55

be done and I'm like that. I see

48:57

when I hear us exercises the as it's

48:59

a funny about that you know that there's

49:01

still a lot. Of ground to cover. still

49:04

a lot. of things that I'm

49:06

no are still hard to get

49:08

the down and out there and

49:10

and of America africa said to

49:13

be have. Left. The store

49:15

and complex let it be profiting from

49:17

Santa Simple fast foods as an ally.

49:19

A deal of blackness You know that

49:21

of embark on a school. Was

49:24

too pushy and die and the Us open

49:26

about that but there has. There has been

49:29

work done and I'm I'm thankful to them

49:31

in any way, shape or form part of

49:33

that work. I'm. Writing A

49:35

we have a lot of work to do. Definitely.

49:38

Also from so last year you got

49:40

to play Richard the Third and Shakespeare

49:42

in the Park. Ah did Loomis African

49:44

Guy in London. So you saw that

49:46

on a farm I can undermine democracy

49:48

or higher. And as

49:50

is that I'm in my success a leading,

49:52

perhaps the epic stays role. Of.

49:54

All Time is that an experience that lingers on

49:56

you as it's something you ever expected to do.

50:00

No one I will. They went

50:02

out when of author uses called.

50:04

Me and so I just cracked up

50:06

glamour I just season try to give

50:08

me that would say so long time

50:11

other on our gotten position themselves a

50:13

lot of the so the other noted

50:15

that. Well as I'm concerned that the

50:18

does this is. That an athlete poor

50:20

home on the and I was terrified

50:22

and I just added give them an

50:24

answer for months and and Robert and

50:26

then are falling as though he now

50:28

have a far more. Oh

50:30

no, I was city for the

50:33

recently passed and there were some

50:35

references over that. Or

50:41

navigated. At the time and he did. But

50:45

don't see any so I don't

50:47

know. though I do have. Is

50:50

that the that? Looks

50:55

a lot of. The same

50:57

size as Adam without me. So you.

50:59

Know the I just. Had

51:03

a really. Seem to have

51:05

a half of those is burning

51:08

wood and on out of. I

51:10

remember him. He. Actually, Pretty.

51:15

Often must be really fun over a probably cannot get

51:17

any harder than that. I mean truly what else is

51:19

there out there unless you like performed by the entire

51:22

or as they are like right in or hours I

51:24

beg You know, It

51:27

was extremely hard at it was

51:29

so hot at Oliver and argue

51:31

that are you down by wonderful

51:33

a project is either a day,

51:35

eyes are your their lives. Down

51:44

the river a supply of running

51:46

up and down for two and

51:48

three hours like I can do.

51:50

this is the only look would

51:52

have been cool. But. Other off as an

51:54

added so you know is is all types of

51:56

things are going into it like this day including

51:58

it's a T V. that's great performances

52:01

and my director Robert O'Hara, whose

52:03

idea this was, he was like, he also

52:05

directed my first play ever, so we're old

52:07

songs. And he was like,

52:09

you know, we gotta do something about how much tonight's

52:12

sweating by the end of the first theme because she

52:14

ain't gonna like how this looks on camera, on television.

52:17

So yeah, it was, it was, it was work. I mean,

52:19

I think I, I don't know how many times

52:21

I dropped cause doing that role, but

52:24

at the same time, I always

52:26

wanted to do the

52:28

hardest thing, the action thing. And

52:31

he was like action plus all

52:33

the language you could ever want. And

52:36

I do love, I do love Shakespeare and

52:38

I've always, you know, had a affinity

52:40

for it to some extent. So I've

52:43

done Shakespeare the class before, loved that performance.

52:46

I mean, loved that experience. So she's the opposite.

52:48

She was a nun, a virtuous

52:50

nun, Isabella. So I think I've done

52:53

the whole gamut in two roles. But

52:55

yeah, I don't know. I just, I,

52:57

I love the people I met there.

52:59

One of the amazing actors I met,

53:02

Matt Jeffers, who you will meet on

53:04

the show, the ones who live.

53:06

Cause I just, I was working with him

53:08

and I was like, oh no, this he's

53:10

gotta, he's gotta come, he's gotta

53:12

come into the, into the walking days. I

53:14

mean, what the heck? And I

53:18

just told my two co-creators, Andy and Gimple, I said,

53:20

I have, we have the Nat, the Nat is a

53:22

character and Nat's hair gets very close to in the

53:24

show. And she looks for Rick. And

53:27

I was like, I think I found

53:29

him. And, and Gimple came inside the

53:32

show and agreed. So, you know, it

53:34

was, I made some really, there's some beautiful, wonderful

53:36

people I got to know and, and I'm very

53:38

thankful for that. What do you

53:40

love about theater the most that

53:42

aren't your works? Any playwrights that

53:45

you're really enjoying? Any

53:47

sort of stories that you enjoy watching

53:50

that are not the stories that you want to

53:52

tell, but stories that you're like, it

53:54

is nice to sit in a

53:56

theater with people and enjoy this

53:59

story communally. for a couple hours.

54:01

Oh, yeah. There's so many great playwrights.

54:04

I just was just celebrating my

54:06

dear sister, Jocelyn Beal.

54:09

Her play was just recently on Broadway. Jar Jar's

54:12

is so on. Yeah, yeah. I

54:15

love that play. Yeah,

54:17

yeah. And we were, you know, she's someone

54:19

I'm working, developing

54:22

works with, and someone I really

54:24

adore. And so to see her

54:26

work sort of fly like that. And you know,

54:29

that's sort of a story that really

54:31

gets me, because there were women

54:33

who are immigrant hairdressers

54:36

coming down from Harlem and

54:38

going into the theater and

54:40

seeing themselves in this great

54:42

white way, that's just literally

54:44

called, and

54:46

really being able to celebrate themselves and a

54:48

reflection of the narratives and the stories that

54:50

they carry. And that to me

54:53

is so powerful. And then of course going out for

54:55

such a massive audience at the same time as it

54:57

did. So I

54:59

was really thrilled by her, by this that

55:01

function for her. And you

55:03

know, I recently watched Fat Ham as well,

55:06

which I thought was fantastic. I

55:09

thought while we were shooting The Ones Who

55:11

Live, all kinds of our pre-list to

55:13

catch some theater here and there from shooting

55:15

outside and freezing piercely. So

55:19

that was another fantastic piece of work.

55:21

And another, and they did that thing that I love,

55:23

which is it played on a classic. It

55:26

took a classic and made it its own.

55:30

I love that because I grew up

55:32

in a very neo-colonial educational system in

55:34

post-colonial Zimbabwe. And so if you're going

55:36

to shovel this Western content down my

55:43

throat, I'm going to make it my own

55:46

and figure out my way. And

55:48

it might be quite irreverent

55:50

and so be it. And thank God

55:53

it does, because it should. And

55:56

so I love that type of way of

55:58

getting out of it. There's

56:01

so many, there's so many

56:03

great pre-enact right now, I don't think

56:06

I'm going to blank on it all, but it is,

56:08

there are some, you know, of course, as I

56:10

mentioned, you know, there's still

56:12

a lot of ways, of course,

56:14

and I love Lynn Nottage, the Nottage is like

56:16

a mentor of mine, and has

56:18

said words to me that have

56:20

caused me to just, she doesn't

56:22

even know what a one little sentence

56:25

she said did for me, you know what I mean,

56:27

she's just one of those, and with

56:29

such an astounding generous heart and spirit

56:31

and brilliance at the same time, everything

56:33

she writes is like, you know, you're just in

56:36

a masterclass, and I

56:38

just, I adore her. I definitely

56:40

recommend Dominique Morisot's new play Sunset

56:42

Baby. Oh, I love Dominique. Yes.

56:45

Yes, oh, yes, we just opened, yes. Oh,

56:49

fantastic, yes, yes, I love Dominique, I've been trying

56:51

to get her to go to Zimbabwe, I

56:54

have a nonprofit there where I take Americans

56:56

to teach, and we're just

56:58

figuring out the right time for it. But yeah, she's,

57:01

she's incredible. And I think she would be

57:03

amazing. Now of course, before we

57:05

let you go, Black Panther is of course not

57:08

live theater, but the way those movies are structured,

57:10

everybody gets such incredible acting moments that I feel

57:12

like on set, you must just get to be

57:15

face to face with people, you know,

57:17

giving their all giving like Broadway size

57:19

performances for the screen, you are of course,

57:22

incredibly arresting in these films. Do you have

57:24

any favorite onset moments watching other people act?

57:29

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

57:32

I came and watched a scene where

57:37

Latisha is basically

57:40

telling Bahu that

57:43

he is going to

57:46

fight with her war. And

57:50

I just, I mean, I loved

57:52

I was just I was just

57:54

floored. It was just so brilliant. And

57:57

you know, the story, You know, we do a lot of

57:59

things. The Shaping. Of. Those scenes and

58:01

there in front of the camera. On

58:03

the day you know. So I didn't

58:06

know what was about to come out

58:08

of her as she was being so

58:10

you know you didn't know what I'm

58:12

gonna come out and what he came

58:14

through with an house he nailed that

58:16

was so powerful they work of a

58:18

moment that winston you don't feed on

58:21

three but he cleared up to do

58:23

with like day. I like to see

58:25

this power. Coming out of this young.

58:27

Woman as in a way that is

58:29

very cool. Vincent's is full of V

58:31

or a lot. Further

58:35

than that of replace the not any so

58:37

he was filmed by the to the her

58:40

current and I was that Mrs. Clinton.

58:43

I just love the since I'm a hundred.

58:45

And one of them come to

58:48

love you know was really really

58:50

powerful. That's. One that slumped to

58:52

my mind. For

58:54

you so much for being here are very.

58:58

Odd. I could go out and I'm sure on

59:00

shore know I remember the scene so specifically to

59:02

so I'm like watching it as you're describing. Yeah,

59:06

thank you so much for being

59:08

your alma Got your system Fabulous

59:10

interviewee to Ah thanks for having

59:12

me that really fun preceding guys

59:14

coming up. Dialogue and movies good

59:16

or bad. Hi

59:38

There I'm my Pillow O'brien and

59:40

I'm a writer. And reader

59:42

and the wife or someone

59:44

you may have heard ass.

59:47

And I'm here to tell you about

59:49

the newest season of my podcast for

59:52

Team Photo significant others. Each week we

59:54

tell stories you may not know about

59:56

a person. You probably do. like

59:59

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over the weekend, Janit Vilnove, director of many

1:01:19

of our favorite movies of the past few

1:01:21

years, including Arrival, Sicario, Blade Runner 2049,

1:01:24

where I believe Jared Leto just showed up and

1:01:26

they filmed an entire movie around him being weird.

1:01:28

They're like, you want to dress in gold? Great.

1:01:30

Stick around. He said

1:01:32

this, Frankly, I hate dialogue. Dialogue is for

1:01:34

theater and television. I don't remember movies because

1:01:37

of a good line. I remember movies because

1:01:39

of a strong image. I'm not interested in

1:01:41

dialogue at all. Pure image and sound, that

1:01:43

is the power of cinema. But it is

1:01:45

something not obvious when you watch movies today.

1:01:48

Movies have been corrupted by television.

1:01:50

Okay, first of all, bitch, don't you ever put

1:01:52

television and theater in the same breath again. Television

1:01:55

is for entertainment. Theater is art. Movies

1:01:58

are art. together. I

1:02:01

have to say, I actually am sort of grateful

1:02:03

to hear this perspective because it's clarifying. Like when

1:02:05

you see people come out of the criterion closet

1:02:07

and they're talking about like old

1:02:10

autoristic movies, I feel like they're

1:02:12

routinely talking about images more than

1:02:14

they're ever talking about characters and

1:02:16

dialogue and stuff. And it's just

1:02:18

a school of thought that I

1:02:20

believe exists, you know, that movies

1:02:22

are about image and sound

1:02:24

and feeling enveloped. It

1:02:26

is just not really why I go

1:02:28

to the movies. I am truly dialogue

1:02:31

oriented. I am way more Mike Nichols

1:02:33

oriented than Stanley Kubrick oriented. And

1:02:37

I don't know. Do you concur with this perspective at

1:02:39

all? What do you think of this? It's

1:02:41

very interesting because I feel like as

1:02:44

a person who has written for television,

1:02:47

as a person who grew up on

1:02:49

American films the way that we did,

1:02:51

especially queer coded films, it's all about

1:02:53

snappy dialogue. It's all about people interacting.

1:02:55

And I love theater as well, obviously.

1:02:58

But as

1:03:01

I've been dipping into film

1:03:04

more, obviously within college when I was

1:03:06

watching certain films or trying to educate

1:03:10

myself on certain foreign films more, there

1:03:13

is something to be said about the

1:03:16

fact that non-American films

1:03:18

do rely on images a

1:03:20

lot more. And I will

1:03:22

say that when I'm

1:03:24

thinking about film,

1:03:28

it is a lot of

1:03:30

the striking images that do

1:03:32

hit me first before the

1:03:34

dialogue. The dialogue is good. But when I

1:03:36

think about my favorite directors, like Almodovar,

1:03:40

for instance, it's all about

1:03:43

those bright colors, the images,

1:03:45

the costumes, you know, the

1:03:47

staging. And I mean,

1:03:49

just speaking of another Denis, Claire

1:03:52

Denis, a French director,

1:03:56

that is all about the image.

1:03:58

I mean, Beau Trevail, like barely have a picture. The any

1:04:00

dialogue get it right and stars at noon.

1:04:02

The dialogue is from Margaret clearly and xo

1:04:04

all when and so you'd rather not listen

1:04:06

to it any less assess assess. I had

1:04:08

a silly Margaret Hall going to win an

1:04:10

Oscar in the next like six or seven

1:04:12

years of bite your tongue I don't either

1:04:14

way doll her that maybe not I her

1:04:16

been offended or not. I haven't seen the

1:04:18

Yes, but it's is literally all of my

1:04:20

favorite movies. It's about the dialogue. Ultimately, like

1:04:22

All About he doesn't exist without the dialogue

1:04:24

even Rear Window a suspenseful movie which has

1:04:26

plenty of spectacle in a lot to look

1:04:28

at is about character dynamics before. It is

1:04:31

about being terrified. I think. I also wonder

1:04:33

if you're like a film scholar and a

1:04:35

filmmaker If sound in spectacle of those are

1:04:37

the kind of things you're more impressed with

1:04:39

yourself or it's event. Whereas I don't know

1:04:42

that there are many people who pride themselves

1:04:44

most on capturing i don't know, a conversation

1:04:46

or to somebody talking and a fascinating way.

1:04:48

Even though that's what I like most about

1:04:51

movies, you know I'm still recovering from Woody

1:04:53

Allen sucking I. That's like that's the most

1:04:55

of I prefer. You know, I

1:04:59

think there's also something. To be said

1:05:01

though about. People. Who do

1:05:03

both right again? Directed Vm? Did? You

1:05:05

would never say that a terrorist Xenon

1:05:07

film is not about the images in

1:05:09

it, right? but you also would never

1:05:11

see his films are about the dialogue

1:05:13

right? He is definitely equally obsessed with

1:05:16

both legs. He loves the snap enos

1:05:18

as he is clearly a snappy person.

1:05:20

In fact, he looks like he's going

1:05:22

to snap most honestly have, but then

1:05:24

also turtle yeah. But also, he's obsessed

1:05:26

with old movies and us contributing things

1:05:28

and then making things splash or than

1:05:30

they ever were before. You. Don't

1:05:32

like about Terrence, you know, refuses to be bored.

1:05:35

That's something I do appreciate about them. Suffer

1:05:38

paperweight set so that the appearance of

1:05:41

the wrong as long as it's gas.

1:05:43

Awesome. I. also did

1:05:45

a disservice to almodovar even there

1:05:47

because his dialogue is also snap

1:05:49

the holiday our body and that

1:05:51

concerned citizen of melodramas in telenovelas

1:05:53

and i just think that you

1:05:55

brought up all about eve and

1:05:57

that com specifically though from a

1:05:59

period where there was

1:06:02

more of a blur

1:06:04

between radio dramas, theater,

1:06:06

and film. People

1:06:08

were writing dialogue. There were

1:06:10

obviously beautiful, gorgeous images in,

1:06:14

probably more gorgeous images in Hitchcock than I

1:06:16

would say in All About Eve. I actually

1:06:18

don't really remember much of the visuals in

1:06:20

All About Eve, to be honest. Um,

1:06:23

I mean, I remember mo- scenes and moments and

1:06:25

you know, like visually stunning. I don't know

1:06:27

how visually stunning it is. Uh,

1:06:30

to me, but that's also

1:06:32

just coming from when films were black and

1:06:34

white as well. You

1:06:36

know, you're not taking in all of

1:06:38

those images. It's before tech, the color.

1:06:40

So it is about the dialogue. It

1:06:42

felt more theater based. And I feel

1:06:45

like as America started

1:06:47

moving towards tech

1:06:49

to color, there was color

1:06:51

and images and there's also

1:06:53

dialogue. But then you

1:06:56

had a whole school of people

1:06:58

like Godard, uh, or even, I

1:07:00

don't know how much dialogue is

1:07:02

really in most, the Bergman

1:07:04

films are about the images a lot of times

1:07:06

too, but they're also about a conversation too. So

1:07:08

I don't know. It is, it is

1:07:12

an interesting question that I feel like a lot of people

1:07:14

were having fun with online. Right.

1:07:16

Some people were like, well, you know what?

1:07:18

That's true. But then also there

1:07:20

are people who just prefer movies that have

1:07:22

dialogue in them. And there are some people

1:07:24

who really just only want that

1:07:27

visual spectacle. I

1:07:29

think also there's just a

1:07:31

difference in how people learn. Like some people,

1:07:33

I would consider myself more auditory. So the

1:07:35

way people speak is going to resonate with

1:07:37

me more. Whereas if you are entirely visual,

1:07:39

I don't know, maybe conversations fall on deaf

1:07:41

ears, though I have to say, it feels

1:07:43

crazy to me to say, you don't like

1:07:46

dialogue, but maybe it's with the, here I

1:07:48

am getting into just pop psychology, the

1:07:52

love languages thing, how some people are words of

1:07:54

affirmation. And then some people aren't that

1:07:56

they're something totally different. All I am is words

1:07:58

of affirmation. Please write. up home about

1:08:00

me. That's what I want. But

1:08:03

some people I guess don't respond to that. I think words

1:08:05

are just filling the air and not taking this

1:08:07

dynamic anywhere. I mean,

1:08:10

was the last time he

1:08:12

did dialogue anyway? Was it that talking

1:08:14

fish in Maelstrom? I

1:08:17

would say... Rival has some good dialogue

1:08:20

scenes. You would not hire Amy Adams

1:08:22

if you weren't... didn't care about dialogue.

1:08:24

That's all about the board, too. It's

1:08:27

all about the visualness of the aliens.

1:08:29

Oh, sure. No, no, no. It's an unmistakably awesome-looking movie.

1:08:32

I do not mean to take that away from a

1:08:34

rival. But if you don't like dialogue, does that mean

1:08:36

you kind of don't like actors? Like,

1:08:38

you think they could kind of be anybody? Like, in the

1:08:40

Hitchcock way, where you're like, well, they're cattle to me. I

1:08:45

honestly kind of feel that

1:08:47

way about him. Yeah. To

1:08:49

be honest, when you think about

1:08:52

Dune, when you think

1:08:54

about the way he talks about film, I

1:08:57

think it's all maybe a little bit sort of incidental

1:08:59

to him. The actors. Case in

1:09:02

point, I just saw Tenet

1:09:05

again yesterday. It

1:09:07

was rescreening for a week in IMAX

1:09:09

because the whole narrative around Tenet was

1:09:12

people didn't really get to enjoy it

1:09:14

while they were watching it at home

1:09:17

during COVID. And now you can really see it on

1:09:19

the big screen. And unfortunately,

1:09:22

that bitch was correct, because now

1:09:24

I do love Tenet so

1:09:26

much. But what you

1:09:29

hear, there was a conversation that Nolan had

1:09:32

with Dune after

1:09:34

a screening

1:09:36

at IMAX. And I watched it

1:09:39

on YouTube. And there are conversations

1:09:41

where he was, where Chris Nolan

1:09:43

was talking about working with the

1:09:45

actors versus where Dunev

1:09:48

Dondov was talking about working with

1:09:50

the film. There was

1:09:52

definitely an emphasis on the spectacle for

1:09:54

him, as opposed to working

1:09:56

with actors. Like, he talked about his storyboard

1:09:59

at the film. and writes

1:10:01

the script and then

1:10:03

based off of the new storyboard

1:10:06

for it, rewrites the script. So

1:10:08

it's really about getting these visual

1:10:11

images working, you know? And Nolan

1:10:13

talked about how the

1:10:16

scene where John David Washington is fighting himself,

1:10:18

right? They did that one first. They

1:10:21

did not use any reverse camera

1:10:24

work on that. So what happened

1:10:26

is John David Washington learned

1:10:28

that fight two different ways. He learned

1:10:30

it the regular way and then he learned

1:10:32

it the inverse way. If you know

1:10:34

Tenet, like it's about the inverse time

1:10:36

going backwards when you're, you know, I

1:10:39

get the movie now, but it took me a minute. I

1:10:42

was very stoned the first time I watched it. But

1:10:45

he learned that two different ways and it

1:10:47

was about him working with the actors. And

1:10:50

I don't know, I think from

1:10:52

him doing Oppenheimer as well. And

1:10:55

that very

1:10:57

serial killer note that he

1:10:59

left on Killian Murphy's script,

1:11:01

it was finally

1:11:04

a lead for you now. That

1:11:06

seems like something a mean

1:11:09

gay director would do. Like

1:11:11

Sherman Capote leads that to one of the swans or

1:11:13

something. But

1:11:18

even that, he is a person who

1:11:20

likes dialogue because there's so many quiet

1:11:23

moments in Oppenheimer. There's people

1:11:26

speaking, you know? And I

1:11:28

think that he is a well rounded

1:11:30

director where he loves to dialogue and

1:11:32

he also loves the visual spectacle of

1:11:34

a movie. But

1:11:37

yeah, I mean, that's a

1:11:39

harder one to really

1:11:42

sort of parse because obviously I

1:11:44

love dialogue and

1:11:46

there's certain films I love with dialogue, but there's also

1:11:48

some films where I just really love letting

1:11:52

the images wash over me. And I

1:11:54

do think at the end of

1:11:56

the day, film is

1:11:59

more about the visuals than

1:12:02

the dialogue. I mean, I think it's hard to be

1:12:04

empirical about it, but I think Oppenheimer is a good

1:12:06

example of, like, the middle of the movie when it's

1:12:09

about the bomb and the suspense waiting

1:12:11

for that moment to happen, you

1:12:13

know, the world-ending sort of mushroom-clouding

1:12:16

Oppenheimer's vision coming to be. And then the last

1:12:18

half of the movie, or the last act of

1:12:20

the movie, everybody sort of testifying,

1:12:22

that's when the movie to me becomes like a

1:12:24

play. Like, it's, you know, it's compelling in the

1:12:27

way something like 12 Angry Men might be, or,

1:12:29

you know, something from the 50s where it's on

1:12:31

stage and everybody gets a turn to talk,

1:12:33

and we're just, you know, as

1:12:35

the audience, we're being clued into all these

1:12:38

different perspectives, and, you know,

1:12:40

finally hearing from Emily Blunt, and finally

1:12:42

hearing the true intentions of Robert Downey

1:12:44

Jr., you know, these reveals that all

1:12:46

come through conversations. And I think that's

1:12:48

ultimately why I like,

1:12:50

I prefer dialogue in movies over spectacle, is because

1:12:53

it, just, it reveals something about the character itself,

1:12:55

which I find to be the most exciting part

1:12:57

of a movie. You know, like, ah, now I'm

1:12:59

learning what that person really is. That's

1:13:04

fair, but I would also say that a lot

1:13:06

of the colors or

1:13:08

a lot of costumes sort of

1:13:10

reveal who people are too. So, I don't

1:13:12

know, I think there's just a different school

1:13:15

of thought of people who love

1:13:17

one or the other, and I think more

1:13:20

often than not, a

1:13:22

French director just isn't gonna give a fuck about that. True,

1:13:25

I do have to say the Frenchness is coming into play

1:13:27

here, I think. And also,

1:13:29

you know, if you don't like dialogue that much, I

1:13:31

think maybe therapy is for you. I don't know. I

1:13:33

feel like maybe you could tap into something here that

1:13:35

will help you ultimately in your journey to be a

1:13:39

person. Actually, this may stem

1:13:41

from the fact that there's a

1:13:43

TV show that I still don't know if it's happening,

1:13:45

and maybe he decided that

1:13:47

he didn't want to do it anymore, but

1:13:50

Villeneuve was supposed to be directing an HBO series that

1:13:52

was announced in 2020 produced by

1:13:55

Jake Gyllenhaal being written by Jonathan

1:13:57

Nolan. This was announced in 2020.

1:14:00

but haven't

1:14:02

heard anything about it since. So

1:14:04

maybe he tried his hand at

1:14:06

television and said, fuck

1:14:09

this. I would actually love it if

1:14:11

that were the case. Because I, you know, when I watch

1:14:13

something like the SAG Awards and the TV actors are just

1:14:15

mingling with the movie actors, I get uncomfortable. I mean, I

1:14:17

truly think they should have different catering. I'm sorry. Sandra

1:14:20

Fuller has to be around like modern family alums.

1:14:22

Does that sound right to you? I don't think

1:14:24

so. Well, you know, Sandra, who

1:14:27

is gonna be only murders in the

1:14:29

building probably at this point. I'm gonna leave the studio.

1:14:31

I mean to not. I mean to not be here.

1:14:34

I guess if Merrill's there, it makes it okay. By the

1:14:36

way, Merrill and Martin Short,

1:14:39

should we talk about that? I'm sorry. So

1:14:41

they lied to us. They're clearly dating or

1:14:43

something. Hmm. Well,

1:14:47

I feel like that's beautiful for them. It sure

1:14:50

is. It's arguably the most beautiful thing I've seen.

1:14:54

Let us in on it. We're watching it. You're

1:14:57

beloved. I think

1:14:59

I should catch up on only murders and then maybe I'll be

1:15:01

more invested in that relationship. Oh, okay. But I mean, it's just

1:15:03

like her, her

1:15:05

slyness, by the way, at the SAG Awards this weekend,

1:15:07

she did like a physical bit where she pretended to

1:15:09

bump into the mic and she said she forgot her

1:15:12

glasses. Girl, that was some comedian del Arte shit. I

1:15:14

believed that. She did me good. All

1:15:17

the double wears brought over union.

1:15:19

Right. Yes. And they

1:15:21

came in with like her glasses and her bag. That was fucking

1:15:23

awesome. She really did go to Yale. You've

1:15:25

got me thinking now about the divide between

1:15:27

film and TV. Who

1:15:30

are people who have not done TV yet?

1:15:33

Who truly like I am. Wait, no

1:15:35

she didn't, this is America. Limited series, does that count? I guess it

1:15:38

does. Yeah, cause she

1:15:40

also did Mildred Pierce. No. That

1:15:42

was Kate Winslet. Yeah, that was Winslet. The Kate's.

1:15:44

Right. Honestly, that's

1:15:46

the same bitch, okay? You

1:15:50

cannot, that is some Hannah Montana shit

1:15:52

going on. I'm sorry. And

1:15:55

they both started Woody Allen movies way too late. Yes.

1:15:59

Yes. I will. Robert

1:16:01

Downey Jr. did Daniel tell him as he oh

1:16:03

yeah yeah, Daniel Day Lewis while he's I do

1:16:05

anything right now and he's like I assume painting

1:16:07

or something. Is super

1:16:09

I walking around New York? Ah. In.

1:16:13

It's Nz outfits, right? His eyes

1:16:15

do exactly. probably looking amazing at

1:16:17

sixty seven or whatever. But.

1:16:20

As six it's you may be one of the

1:16:22

last. Holdouts. Of

1:16:24

people who just have not done television and

1:16:26

in Merrill's done it now Julia Roberts has

1:16:28

done it. Might know it's upsetting. I'd I

1:16:31

believe in his by for case and this

1:16:33

is where I believe in a Binaries This

1:16:35

right here has it's out on C V

1:16:38

yes mouth didn't or started and Cv Oh

1:16:40

yeah Denzel is a pretty good answer Now

1:16:42

yeah. Yeah. But because as you

1:16:44

like, maybe didn't sell and Clooney. I'd

1:16:47

be like these are people who started

1:16:49

in television. And then since the

1:16:52

transition to movies have not gone back right

1:16:54

right right now I can't I'm out. Tom.

1:16:58

Of course time press yes which is crazy

1:17:00

because you would think he would have been.

1:17:02

We have movie live illicit goods every your

1:17:04

Tv shows that there's plenty of things he

1:17:06

would be a fit for on television especially

1:17:08

in this age of the spending Tons and

1:17:10

tons of money on a streaming. Serious, but.

1:17:13

Yeah. Wow. I feel like the Mission

1:17:16

Impossible movies are basically a the twenty

1:17:18

seventh season running tv show at this

1:17:20

point. Yeah, no kidding, exactly. Are

1:17:25

I would we are back. And

1:17:33

we're back with our favorite segment of the

1:17:35

episode and and would be remiss to save

1:17:37

that. We. Are producer tell

1:17:39

the story break Leonardo Dicaprio? Ah yeah.

1:17:42

Since Growing Pains has not been back

1:17:44

on television series produced a lot of

1:17:46

things but. He's. Like keep me

1:17:48

up a small screen He's i don't watch me on

1:17:51

your phone bets D C and Marty are like says

1:17:53

bumping on that. marty

1:17:56

thou has done cv girl he threw

1:17:58

vinyl at us and i still

1:18:00

injured. And remember

1:18:02

Boardwalk Empire? Right, which might still be

1:18:04

on. There's no telling and it's rude

1:18:06

to ask. Never has there

1:18:09

more been a show where people were continuously telling

1:18:11

you about its importance while it was on the

1:18:13

air and now since it's gone off the air,

1:18:15

I haven't heard a single person talk

1:18:17

about Boardwalk Empire. And by the way, where is

1:18:19

Paz de la Huerta? Honest question and I believe

1:18:22

we should be concerned. For our safety. What

1:18:27

is your Keep It this week? Oh, right. The show.

1:18:30

My Keep It is involving an

1:18:32

album I'm listening to obsessively again. I

1:18:34

bought it when it came out. It's

1:18:36

now 20 years old. I

1:18:38

said I didn't really care for Confessions having

1:18:41

a 20th anniversary Renaissance

1:18:44

and the internet was upset. You know what? Good

1:18:46

for them. They should have spoken up. I'm glad.

1:18:48

But I'm talking about... You treated that? Yeah. I

1:18:50

did not know. I said it on the podcast

1:18:52

here after

1:18:54

Usher Super Bowl. But I have

1:18:57

been listening to Gwen Stefani's Love Angel Music

1:18:59

Baby. And all

1:19:01

things considered, a pretty perfect pop album except

1:19:04

for what I'm going to say my Keep

1:19:06

It To, Keep It To Long Way To

1:19:08

Go with Andre 3000, the final track

1:19:11

on the album. I can't

1:19:13

think of another album like this.

1:19:15

Maybe Future Nostalgia by Dua Lipa.

1:19:17

Where up until the last track,

1:19:19

it is flawless. It is an

1:19:22

artistic vision that is very narrowed

1:19:24

in. Gwen Stefani had this very

1:19:26

candy coated designer aesthetic that was

1:19:28

both winking and gleefully

1:19:31

legitimately stupid. She went for

1:19:33

it. And the pop hooks were

1:19:35

popping. I mean like What You Waiting For

1:19:37

is produced by Nellie Hooper who did all

1:19:39

of Bjork's singles from the early 90s like

1:19:42

Human Behavior and It's So So Quiet and

1:19:44

did Bedtime Story by Madonna. You

1:19:46

Had Cool which has a wonderful video. You Had

1:19:49

Hollaback Girl which is of course one of the

1:19:51

great radio songs of all time. And a Fun

1:19:54

rejoinder to: Courtney Love Allegedly, who wouldn't

1:19:56

stop making fun of Gwen Stefani at

1:19:58

one point.? You

1:20:00

get through the album in there. so many what

1:20:02

lovely songs. The real thing as a great ah

1:20:04

non single Serious is a great non single. Then.

1:20:07

She makes an attempt at racial healing which

1:20:10

I'm just gonna say she is not capable

1:20:12

of achieving on long way. To go with

1:20:14

andre three thousand were. See.

1:20:16

Says when snow hits the asphalt

1:20:18

cold looks bad.com Is that supposed

1:20:20

to be written like something from

1:20:23

a Harlem renaissance? Because see as

1:20:25

don't feel as familiar with the

1:20:27

works of most of years. I

1:20:29

don't know where are those were

1:20:31

a. Cold

1:20:34

books and bad taught com. Or

1:20:37

first of all that is a direct

1:20:39

live from county call on Aug. As

1:20:41

I've a clearly I'm unfamiliar Spencer I'm

1:20:43

going to college and a couple years

1:20:45

a specific. For

1:20:49

like weeds out as you know

1:20:52

and Brooks writing com on it's

1:20:54

that saw. A.

1:20:56

Going back twenty years when this

1:20:58

album first came out when I

1:21:00

first got my little hands on

1:21:02

him be ah yes nice. Most.

1:21:06

I've. Ever dated. Two baths

1:21:08

hard and. Recoiling?

1:21:11

Yeah, true at going. What the

1:21:13

fuck? It sounds weird because it

1:21:15

came out around the time of

1:21:18

the. Police's album just saw

1:21:20

it Easy and I'll just be

1:21:22

thousand how to follow that. I'm

1:21:24

with her Com Millionaire right as

1:21:26

one of my favorite songs, but.

1:21:29

Is. They are talking about.

1:21:32

Capitalism and eat out. be a rich

1:21:35

bitch and so in that suits your

1:21:37

friends, etc. Other things that are rich

1:21:39

people, celebrities think about all the time,

1:21:42

right? you know? Ah, If

1:21:44

I want a millionaire was just a

1:21:46

lobby that kind of I'd add I

1:21:49

six it. That song is probably more

1:21:51

suited to. Grins.

1:21:53

a body of and andre yes

1:21:55

yeah we're at maybe khalis at

1:21:57

odds are two thousand to the

1:21:59

dot better version of Long Way to

1:22:01

Go, but I also think that that song

1:22:03

really should not exist. I love

1:22:05

the beat. It's the definition of

1:22:07

I like the beat, but it

1:22:10

is one of the most embarrassing pop songs that

1:22:12

I've ever had to listen to. It's like saying

1:22:14

you like the bread on a sandwich. I mean,

1:22:16

put anything else on it though. Please, please.

1:22:19

No, it reminds... And then The Girls Will

1:22:21

Be Girls or Boys Will Be Boys, the

1:22:23

final song of... in the future nostalgia sort

1:22:25

of has a similar, like an attempt at

1:22:27

saying something that just feels a little stunted

1:22:30

and a little not thought out. But,

1:22:33

no, but otherwise, man, I really do love

1:22:35

Love Angel Music Baby. And actually The Sweet

1:22:37

Escape too, though I can't think of another

1:22:39

sophomore album that sounds more like the songs

1:22:41

that didn't get into the previous album. Like literally

1:22:44

one at a time, the songs are not as

1:22:46

good as what's on Love Angel Music Baby. You

1:22:49

coming for Yummy? Yummy is

1:22:52

maybe the best thing. I love Early Winter also. Yeah,

1:22:55

also... Gwen has good balladeer energy. That's something she

1:22:57

and Madonna have in common where they strike

1:22:59

the image of just, you know, a bubblegum

1:23:02

pop star. But actually there's balladeer angst that

1:23:04

makes them a little bit deeper than the

1:23:06

average person you hear on the radio. Let

1:23:09

Us Not Forget Fluorescent. Love that. Another song

1:23:12

that sounds like a Madonna song. Yeah. My

1:23:14

friend played fluorescent at a

1:23:17

party. Like my friend

1:23:19

who was DJ played fluorescent a few weeks

1:23:21

ago. And I was

1:23:23

for a second, it took me a second

1:23:26

to register that that was that song and

1:23:28

Awful Sweet Escape because it was such a

1:23:30

throwback. And there were people coming up to

1:23:32

him asking, who

1:23:35

is this? Or is this a new Gwen Sephardi

1:23:37

song? And we were like, Sweet Escape, baby. Yeah.

1:23:40

So much of her first two albums have endured

1:23:42

in a beautiful way.

1:23:44

And I hope we get just

1:23:47

the good ones when she

1:23:49

does Coachella. Yeah, right. I do not

1:23:52

want any of that Blake Shelton shit.

1:23:54

This is an unholy union. Did

1:23:56

I already bring up recently that she was

1:23:58

inaugurated into the Orange County Hall of Fame,

1:24:01

which feels like one of the shadiest accolades

1:24:03

a person can receive. Her and Vicky Gunville's

1:24:05

room. Oh

1:24:08

no, not that Kennedy Center honors. Last

1:24:12

thing about LAMB,

1:24:14

that song is also such

1:24:16

whiplash for their really fun

1:24:19

song that they have on the album,

1:24:21

Bubble Pop Electric. Oh yes, oh yes,

1:24:23

right. A very silly song

1:24:25

where it's sort of, it's like a 50s

1:24:28

make out in our car

1:24:30

vibe except just deliriously naughty.

1:24:34

Johnny, get out of here. Yes,

1:24:37

characters. Yes, characters. Yeah.

1:24:42

This is 2024. And

1:24:44

2004 was a big year for

1:24:47

pop music and especially for us

1:24:50

with leaving high school and

1:24:52

going into college. So I don't

1:24:54

know. I feel like every 20th anniversary this

1:24:57

year is going to hit. Okay. Ashley

1:24:59

Simpson, we speak your name. Come out

1:25:01

of hiding. Autobiography? Yeah, right. The Shadow,

1:25:03

she will be belting that one. I

1:25:05

think she announced that she's going to

1:25:07

be doing something, tours

1:25:10

or at least a couple shows in

1:25:12

New York or LA to celebrate Autobiography's

1:25:15

20th anniversary. I

1:25:17

recently saw her perform at, well,

1:25:21

perform is generous. I saw her

1:25:24

get into the booth with

1:25:26

Ty Sutherland who was playing a couple

1:25:30

of her songs, Pieces

1:25:32

of Me and Lala

1:25:34

at the Christian Seriano after party

1:25:36

during Fashion Week. She hopped up,

1:25:39

did not remember those words to Lala. Unfortunately,

1:25:41

she was handing that

1:25:43

mic around. But

1:25:46

Pieces of Me, she knew perfectly. She

1:25:48

has not hit TikTok. Which is

1:25:50

when Gen Z turned to me and said, just

1:25:52

in the audience, it said, who

1:25:54

is this? Unacceptable. And

1:25:56

does this mean we're due for Akira Diaguardi Renaissance?

1:25:59

My fingers are crossed. Honey, it's

1:26:01

time. Where are you? I want to know

1:26:03

where you are. Well,

1:26:05

Katy Perry is leaving Idol. So...

1:26:08

Oh, there's a slot open. Oh,

1:26:10

please return... Is Kara coming back?

1:26:12

The Kara-Sot? A war-torn Kara Diaguardi

1:26:15

coming back to American Idol. Ira,

1:26:17

what is your keep it this

1:26:19

week? My keep it this week

1:26:21

goes to a cinematic

1:26:24

train wreck, as I call it.

1:26:28

Mea Copa, the

1:26:31

new Tyler Perry film, which aired on Netflix. And

1:26:33

you went for that? You went ahead and watched

1:26:35

it? Which is a controversial thing to do

1:26:37

with a Tyler Perry film these days. Okay,

1:26:40

first of all, when a Tyler Perry film hits,

1:26:42

it hits, okay? I thought I

1:26:44

was going to get acrimony. I thought I

1:26:46

was going to get Temptation, Confessions of a

1:26:48

Marriage Counselor. Those are two

1:26:50

very bad movies which are very fun to watch, okay?

1:26:52

I did not think I was going to get anything

1:26:54

of the level of I can do Battle by Myself,

1:26:57

because that one seems

1:26:59

to at least have an emotional hook.

1:27:02

It's a story about Taraji P.

1:27:04

Henson as a single mother struggling

1:27:07

to make it in the music industry. But

1:27:11

this is in his

1:27:13

new vein of Lifetime-esque

1:27:16

thrillers, just with hot

1:27:18

people in them. This stars

1:27:20

Kelly Rowland, who is absolutely

1:27:24

gorgeous. Oh, she is so

1:27:26

gorgeous. One

1:27:28

of our hottest celebrities, they're

1:27:31

routinely in photos with Beyoncé.

1:27:34

Kelly Rowland is the person who my eyes go to. Take

1:27:37

that. I hope Beyoncé takes

1:27:39

that. Yeah. Beyoncé

1:27:42

is hanging out with TikTokers trying to sell that

1:27:44

hair. If

1:27:47

you have 50 followers, you met Beyoncé this week.

1:27:50

Right, yes. But

1:27:53

I will say that Kelly is also

1:27:55

a very good actress, I feel like.

1:27:58

I just wish that she was inside.

1:28:00

something better than this.

1:28:02

I would also say the same for

1:28:04

Trevante Rhodes, who is also a gorgeous

1:28:06

man, was very captivating in Moonlight, is

1:28:09

very beautiful to look at in this film. Unfortunately,

1:28:12

it's garbage.

1:28:14

And more than garbage, because garbage

1:28:16

could be fun, it's boring as

1:28:19

hell. Now that is a word I

1:28:21

do not associate with Tyler Perry, so I do not know

1:28:23

how that happened. And

1:28:26

this gets me to Tyler Perry's

1:28:28

recent comments about how AI

1:28:30

is going to

1:28:33

be awful and ruin the industry.

1:28:35

That interview is extremely confusing. It's

1:28:38

extremely confusing because he talked about how he had

1:28:41

used AI himself. Right. And he's like, oh, I

1:28:43

was gonna buy $800 million

1:28:45

worth of land to expand my studio so I

1:28:47

could film all the time, but I'm not gonna

1:28:49

do that anymore because AI is gonna change everything.

1:28:51

We have to do everything in our power to

1:28:54

stop it, except I also am not paying money

1:28:56

to do the thing that would help stop it.

1:29:00

Also it sounds like your films are already being

1:29:02

written by AI. Right.

1:29:04

AI is doing a really good job with you,

1:29:06

unfortunately. Need I

1:29:08

remind you that everything is written,

1:29:10

produced by, directed by Tyler Perry,

1:29:12

lighting by Tyler Perry, hair by

1:29:15

Tyler Perry, bad wigs. Woven

1:29:17

by Tyler Perry. There

1:29:21

is no, he doesn't

1:29:23

have real crews. He doesn't have

1:29:25

writers that he likes to pay,

1:29:28

lest we forget his whole beef

1:29:30

with the WGA from

1:29:32

before. So I don't

1:29:35

know. It seems like

1:29:37

Tyler Perry worried about

1:29:39

AI is noble, I

1:29:41

guess, but he's such a

1:29:43

fucking lunatic. Right. I'm

1:29:45

sorry. You hate AI, but you've used AI. You're

1:29:47

making these bad movies. You don't want to pay

1:29:50

crews. What

1:29:53

are we even doing here? The end. It's

1:29:55

so unfortunate too, because I know like, I

1:29:57

know my mom probably loved it. Well,

1:30:00

someone probably did. I mean, like, he's gonna keep making

1:30:02

them, obviously. The internet told me this week that when

1:30:05

he tries calling Aretha Franklin, Aretha Franklin makes

1:30:07

him do the Medea voice on the phone,

1:30:09

which is a good way of reminding you

1:30:11

who you are when you're talking to Aretha

1:30:13

Franklin. Do your hippie

1:30:15

little voice. Okay, that's

1:30:17

enough. She's... Bye now. She

1:30:20

said, get it right. Yes. You

1:30:23

won't be zooming her. I have been spitting that song

1:30:26

nonstop for a past month, by the way. Get it

1:30:28

right? Yeah. I'm

1:30:30

very obsessed with Aretha Franklin's jump

1:30:32

from the original sparkle soundtrack. And

1:30:36

now we're going to jump? But anyway, this is

1:30:38

just peak Tyler Perry, sounding the alarm about AI

1:30:40

when you're admitting that you've used it in two

1:30:42

of your films already. Right. He's

1:30:44

very, like, outside of bounds of the conversation

1:30:46

we're trying to have, yes. He

1:30:50

is... He

1:30:53

is who he is, you know? Pretty

1:30:55

good and gone, girl, I have to say. Give

1:30:58

back to acting, baby. Right. And being, like,

1:31:01

seventh build. Mm-hmm.

1:31:03

Yeah. That ad, he was also

1:31:05

one of the only good parts

1:31:07

about that Netflix movie,

1:31:09

the one where he was in it

1:31:11

with Cate Blanchett. Don't look up,

1:31:13

yes. A movie we tried to give a Best Picture nomination

1:31:16

to, and then we did, and then

1:31:18

society got a little worse. Yeah.

1:31:20

You know, it's the white American fiction.

1:31:23

Yeah. There we are. Ding, ding, ding.

1:31:26

Wow. That was really something Leonardo DiCaprio was

1:31:28

passionate about. Hmm. Makes you think. Well,

1:31:32

he does love the environment. Right.

1:31:35

I assume they sent him a big script that had just a

1:31:37

piece of masking tape on it and in

1:31:39

pen, the environment written on it. And then he's like,

1:31:42

oh, I'm interested. And then he picked it up and

1:31:44

read it. Like, remember that

1:31:46

whole period where all we used to get

1:31:48

from news stories about Leonardo DiCaprio was about

1:31:50

how he cared about the planet and about

1:31:53

how he was getting solar paneling in his

1:31:55

L.A. mansion. No, I

1:31:57

told you once upon a time, I wrote a prize for him. Billy

1:32:00

on the street which was a signed bag of

1:32:02

the environment by Leonardo DiCaprio. Actually,

1:32:06

maybe that's why he dates such young women.

1:32:08

Right. You think it's like

1:32:10

a recycling thing. He's caring about the future. A

1:32:12

recycling thing. No, he believes the children are our

1:32:14

future, Lewin. No,

1:32:18

I see. I see. Yeah. Teach

1:32:21

them well and let them lead the way. He's

1:32:23

actually building a team of

1:32:25

planeteers. I see. Talk about

1:32:28

somebody who needs a Wendy Williams interview. Leonardo DiCaprio.

1:32:30

That is exactly what we are missing from the

1:32:32

2000s and 2010s. Alright,

1:32:39

that's our episode this week. Thank you

1:32:41

to the amazing Deny Garrera. I mean,

1:32:43

somebody who's on a TV show that

1:32:45

long, also a Tony Award-nominated playwright. Who

1:32:48

has done it like her? Who has? Let

1:32:52

me tell you, Tyler Perry. Oh,

1:32:54

damn it. Fuck. I didn't even think of

1:32:56

him. Yeah. She'll never be

1:32:58

him. She'll never be

1:33:00

Grandma. Unfortunately. She

1:33:03

can do actually really well. I'll buy her stuff. I'll

1:33:05

put that back. Yes. Alright,

1:33:08

we'll see you next week. Don't forget to follow Crooked

1:33:12

Media on Instagram, Twitter,

1:33:16

and texting. You

1:33:20

can also subscribe to keep it on YouTube for

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1:33:25

exclusive content. If

1:33:27

you're as opinionated as we are, consider

1:33:29

dropping us a review. Bye.

1:34:01

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