0:01

Hey listeners, I'm here today to tell you

0:03

about Laminata Media's newest limited podcast series,

0:05

Call Declined. This series takes you through

0:07

the journey of two exceptional women from

0:09

incarceration to freedom, ultimately leading to the

0:12

creation of the Returning Artists Guild, an

0:14

organization that uplifts the artwork of currently

0:16

and formerly incarcerated artists across the country.

0:19

Call Declined is out now wherever you get your

0:21

podcasts. Hi,

0:25

I'm Elise Myers. I'm a content creator and

0:27

comedian. You might know me from TikTok. Why

0:29

am I in your ears right now? Well, that's a great question.

0:31

I would love to tell you. I

0:34

have a new podcast called Funny Cause It's

0:36

True. On my show, I'll be interviewing comedians,

0:38

pop culture icons, and also just people I

0:40

find really funny. We'll be talking about the

0:43

awkward moments that keep you awake at night.

0:45

Cause if you don't laugh, you cry, right? Okay,

0:48

Funny Cause It's True, out now wherever you get

0:50

your podcasts. Lemonade.

1:02

I wrote out this blog post and I

1:04

was like, I've been drinking too much. And

1:08

I decided on Friday that I

1:10

quit and I don't drink anymore.

1:14

And I braced for impact.

1:16

I just thought, oh gosh, what are

1:18

these people going to say? For

1:22

many people, confessing that you've been drinking

1:25

too much takes a lot of

1:27

courage. Often this

1:29

kind of admission is celebrated by the

1:31

people who love you most. But

1:33

for Stephanie Wilder Taylor, this

1:36

represents a full 180 for

1:38

her life, her image, and

1:40

her career. And it

1:42

unlocks a whole new level of

1:45

attention that she never could have

1:47

imagined. My

1:49

phone started blowing up. I

1:51

started getting emails and phone calls

1:54

from talk shows and

1:56

from Dr. Phil in particular called

1:58

me. We're like,

2:00

oh, we heard that you quit drinking and

2:02

you want to come on the show and

2:04

talk about it. And the sippy cups mom.

2:07

And I was like, what? What

2:11

is going on? I mean, I was 10 days

2:14

sober at this point. It

2:28

is last day, the show about the moments that

2:31

changes. I'm your host,

2:33

Stephanie Whittleswax. Today,

2:36

the story of loving alcohol so

2:38

much that you make it a

2:40

core part of your identity. And

2:43

the moment you know, it's time

2:46

to leave it behind. Stephanie

2:53

Wilder Taylor is a writer, a

2:55

stand-up comedian, and a longtime podcast

2:57

host. And Stephanie, spelled

2:59

with an F, is also the

3:02

author of six books. From

3:04

one author and podcaster, Stephanie, with a

3:06

hyphenated last name to another, that is

3:08

a crazy, amazing amount of creative output.

3:11

Especially given that she did all of

3:13

that with three kids in tow. But

3:16

the mom thing was actually part of the brand.

3:19

Stephanie was known for writing candidly

3:21

about motherhood and notably

3:23

how a drink or two or

3:25

three or the whole bottle can

3:27

take the edge off of all the hard,

3:30

monotonous, exhausting things that motherhood

3:32

demands. But behind

3:35

the hilarious, irreverent writing, Stephanie

3:37

was secretly wondering if her

3:39

drinking was normal. She

3:42

documents all of this in her new book,

3:44

Drunkish, a memoir of loving and

3:46

leaving alcohol. And although drinking

3:49

is literally front and center in

3:51

the story, that isn't where the

3:53

addiction plot line starts. I

3:57

gotta say that it goes all the way

3:59

back like My first experience feeling like

4:01

an addict was sugar. At

4:05

a really young age, I got

4:07

busted stealing my parents, I guess,

4:09

Halloween candy that was supposed to

4:11

be for the trick-or-treaters. Halloween

4:14

was a couple days away, and I climbed

4:17

up into our pantry

4:19

and stole some chocolate. And I

4:22

really have a visceral memory of just feeling

4:24

like I know this is bad, I know

4:27

this is wrong, I know I'm going to

4:29

get in trouble. If I get caught, I

4:31

have to have some

4:33

candy now. And

4:36

I ate the candy, and sure enough,

4:38

I was busted by my mom. A couple

4:40

days later, she went to go serve the,

4:43

you know, put it in the bowl for

4:45

the trick-or-treaters, and she was so mad. And

4:48

I just felt ashamed. And

4:50

you know, I think she told me that I was

4:52

selfish, and I was being a pig, and how could

4:55

you do that? And that's

4:57

like, that's my first feeling of addiction,

4:59

of my want

5:01

for the candy was stronger than

5:03

my fear of the consequences. Stephanie

5:06

grows up, this overwhelming feeling

5:09

sets the stage for other

5:11

vices. I already had

5:13

a compulsive nature. And

5:15

then at 14, I was a freshman in high

5:17

school, and I had this huge crush on a

5:19

guy who was a senior in high school. And

5:23

I pined for this guy. And

5:27

my friend was pining for that

5:29

guy's friend. They

5:31

bought beer. I

5:33

had never had beer before. I had

5:35

never kissed a boy. I had,

5:37

you know, lots of crushes. They

5:39

were never requited. And

5:41

I had a few beers, and I

5:44

faced my fear of kissing

5:46

a guy for the first time. And

5:48

I remember the feeling of just that

5:51

buzzy, warm, brave feeling

5:53

that alcohol gave me. And

5:55

I was like, oh, I

5:58

want to feel this again. And again

6:00

and again like I'm never going to

6:02

get tired of the ceiling. And then

6:04

also. We. Were bored. We

6:07

are teenagers. The. Town that

6:09

I lived in. that's what people mostly

6:11

dead was drink so it. Was

6:13

hard for me to see that my

6:15

drinking was any different than anybody elses

6:17

way back then. except that. From.

6:20

Probably the first made it a second

6:22

time I drank. I.

6:24

Was. Not. Having memories

6:26

of the night before, there was

6:29

the blackouts a or just just

6:31

body. But. I thought that everybody

6:33

felt like that as it will. This is

6:35

this must be what drinking does. I.

6:37

Mean that such a great description That and I

6:40

love it. You started with. That

6:42

same feeling of shame with the sugar.

6:44

It's like all the same shit. It's

6:46

like giving you something. It's giving you

6:49

some kind of that super power or

6:51

something. that's how thing. And there's that

6:53

close to that. But. You know,

6:56

It out ways that right there something wrong with

6:58

the fact that. What? You're doing to

7:00

feel better. That. Feels good.

7:03

Is. Bad. You know, somehow wrong,

7:05

like eating too much candy is

7:08

bad. Your bad yourself as you're

7:10

doing something wrong. So there's always

7:12

that ceiling. I

7:15

haven't really thought about this before, but it's

7:17

true. I think for anything that made me

7:19

feel good, I always knew I was doing

7:21

something wrong obviously would. When you're drinking at

7:23

fourteen, you're not supposed to be. I

7:25

mean it's not legal and if I was caught

7:28

by my parents, that would be wrong. but that

7:30

was that same feeling of just like why does

7:32

all the things I love? Why do they Were

7:34

they wrong? One. Stephanie

7:36

hits adulthood. She sets out on

7:39

a career as a stand up

7:41

comedian and Tv writer and ally.

7:43

And as a responsible and employed

7:45

adult it's Totally Sign for her

7:47

to drink. In. Fact: Drinking helps

7:49

with the work. It's how she comes

7:51

her nerves beforehand upset. It's how she

7:54

gets in the mood to have fun

7:56

with her funny friends. For.

7:58

Twenty something Stephanie getting a little

8:00

too drunk never caused any real

8:02

harm. My drinking

8:05

never got in the way of anything. It

8:07

was just a tool that I had that

8:09

I couldn't control. That's how

8:11

my drinking was. I never felt

8:13

like oh I am an alcoholic

8:16

or of addicted to alcohol. I

8:18

never felt that way. I so

8:20

like why can't I control the

8:22

staying that I like. To. Do

8:25

that I like to use that makes

8:27

me feel good wide. Sometimes when

8:29

I say I'm only going to have one drink

8:31

tonight or I'm only gonna have to. why do

8:33

I have a like what is what's wrong with

8:35

me It was always out what's wrong with me

8:37

Why do I do this. But.

8:39

It wasn't like oh, I need help.

8:42

Weights. Where. I saw alcoholism.

8:44

I had friends that were alcoholics.

8:46

one in particular. As a that

8:49

friend of mine is an alcoholic,

8:51

you know. Here's a couple of

8:53

drinks and his whole personality changes.

8:55

Any slurring his words is sloppy.

8:57

He got arrested one time. You

9:00

know he does harder drugs when

9:02

he's drinking like that's. That's.

9:04

A problem. What? I

9:06

have is just a need to

9:08

control it better. That's how I

9:10

saw myself for really long time.

9:16

In my twenties I don't drink all

9:19

the time, I just didn't even think

9:21

about it. That's just what we did.

9:23

I will go out with my friends

9:25

and somebody had drive so would drive

9:28

and I would drink and then I

9:30

would drive home and one time. This.

9:33

Would be in my very early twenties.

9:35

I remember waking up in my apartment.

9:38

And. Having the thought of i don't

9:40

remember what happened last night and

9:42

I'm not sure my car is

9:44

gonna be parked in my parking

9:47

space and I got really scared.

9:50

And I sat up in bed and

9:52

I went to the blinds and I

9:54

had this moment of is my car's

9:56

not parked in a parking space. i

9:59

have no idea where it And I don't know

10:01

how I would even retrace my steps. And

10:04

then the car was there. And I was

10:06

like, ah, okay. I didn't

10:08

think about that. I wasn't like, I'm never drinking again.

10:10

I was like, oh, thank God my car's there. Life

10:14

can go on like normal. And

10:16

life does go on as normal. In

10:18

her 30s, Stephanie is living it up in

10:21

Santa Monica as a TV writer with her

10:23

boyfriend, John. And drinking

10:25

is a regular part of their nightly

10:27

routine. There was a store,

10:29

a supermarket right behind the back

10:31

of our apartment building. So sure,

10:34

we would order takeout late at night. We

10:36

would, you know, we'd sometimes eat dinner at

10:38

11. We both had jobs in TV.

10:41

And we stayed

10:43

up late. We watched TV. We drank our

10:45

wine. I felt like, oh, I

10:48

can drink as much as I want as long

10:50

as I get up in the morning, go to

10:52

work, which I did. I

10:55

felt that wine gave

10:58

me access to my

11:00

emotions to feel intimate

11:03

with my boyfriend to enjoy myself.

11:08

John was with Stephanie during many

11:10

of these drunken nights where maybe

11:12

she overdid it, like after

11:15

they had a night hanging out with friends. And

11:17

then the next thing I knew, I'm so drunk. I'm

11:21

sick. We're trying to leave. I'm puking

11:23

on the sidewalk. John

11:26

had to stop like ever. We couldn't

11:28

take the freeway home, which, you know,

11:30

in L.A., tacks on another like hour

11:32

to the trip because I

11:34

had to stop every so often and get out of

11:36

the car and puke, get back

11:39

to his apartment. I puke in the bathroom. I

11:41

miss the toilet. It's all over the mat. I

11:44

wake up in the morning. Of course I'm

11:46

full of shame. You know, like,

11:48

why? Why did that happen to me? Why

11:50

did I feel like it was just us

11:53

hanging out with one other couple? And

11:55

I just remember feeling just

11:57

humiliated and like, is this guy going to break up?

12:00

What me to a cute on his

12:02

behalf? Not. And did see how

12:04

did he contribute to that pattern of behavior

12:06

or not. I mean did he say hey,

12:08

you throw up on my bath mat or

12:10

was just like yeah, that was crazy and

12:12

then you moved on. He.

12:14

You know he was always. Like.

12:17

You're too hard on yourself yet or

12:19

your own harshest critic. It's okay. It

12:21

happens. You know you had so much

12:23

to drink? Okay, We. Weren't having

12:26

huge fights. I wasn't hurting anybody.

12:28

I wasn't. You know? Getting.

12:30

In fights with his friends. it was

12:32

all fun and then it wasn't. Than

12:35

I was. We used to call me luggage. See.

12:37

For your luggage By the end of

12:40

last nice of kind of like are

12:42

joke it was so he wasn't mad

12:44

at me. He. Just and

12:46

he told me later like looking back

12:48

he said he said i didn't think

12:50

that you were an alcoholic. I thought

12:53

that. You. Had a didn't have really

12:55

an off switch. Because he

12:57

had the same. Image of

12:59

what alcoholism is what true addiction

13:01

is like. You can't stop. You're

13:04

drinking all day years, swilling it

13:06

from a paper bag, your you

13:08

know, drinking mouthwash in the set,

13:10

your sneaking around like. He's

13:13

like my grandson two drinks but

13:15

when she's getting her wine report.

13:18

She. Loses track, And

13:21

the Agency nineteen. Seventy.

13:27

And John get married in two thousand and

13:29

four shortly. After she gets pregnant with

13:32

her first daughter and she still

13:34

very career motivated. She's. Writing

13:36

jokes and moving from tv show to

13:38

tv show. And

13:40

I remember thinking. I

13:43

just I love my job like I'm so

13:45

lucky that I get into this and you

13:47

don't get paid to Just like think of

13:50

funny things. This is the life and I

13:52

saw it. Once I have a baby I'm

13:54

a go right back to work on the

13:56

be one of those people who like you

13:59

know is cool. Really cool. Like not

14:01

an anxious parent like I'm gonna like think

14:03

the baby everywhere. Whatever. I don't know, I

14:05

wasn't I didn't think that far ahead. You

14:08

know, But the baby? A daycare? You know?

14:10

Whatever. Unfortunately,

14:13

New motherhood isn't as easy. Breezy

14:16

and Stephanie hopes. After

14:18

she gives birth, she's diagnosed with

14:20

post partum anxiety and since she

14:22

doesn't have a show, To work

14:24

on that's currently in production she. Stays

14:27

home to take care of the

14:29

baby while John continues to go

14:31

to work and managing both her

14:33

post partum symptoms and a newborn

14:36

all alone all day long is

14:38

a lot. I. Was

14:41

like home with this baby. And.

14:43

Where I used to go out

14:45

and spend time with people and

14:47

be creative and seal validation from

14:50

outside things. All of sudden I'm

14:52

just at home with this instance.

14:54

In my head. So

14:57

bored. A lot of my friends were

14:59

Tv writers or comedians and they did

15:01

not have kids. and you know, Try

15:04

getting your stand up. Comedian:

15:06

Sand to just go for a walk in the

15:08

park for your time together. When there used to

15:11

like going. Out for drinks, you know? I'm.

15:13

So. Tired of

15:15

looking for stuff to do, I signed

15:17

up for a mommy and me at

15:19

a local temple. And. I

15:22

was like oh these people they're

15:24

so boring. I don't really to

15:26

them. I don't I'm not a

15:28

mommy, you know? I

15:30

just pictured myself as being like. A

15:33

cool mom. Yeah, life's going on the

15:35

way it was before to spend it

15:38

when? so yes, huge change for me.

15:40

and also even if I could do

15:42

that, My. Daughter wouldn't

15:44

she was not as she

15:47

was also nights. Laid.

15:50

Back know cool baby. not a know which

15:52

way. the whole baby that a problem. And.

15:54

Then I became one of those mom's

15:56

that sites can't go to your barbeque

15:58

at four o'clock that. The top law

16:01

came and. You don't know how hard the

16:03

rest of my day will be. If. She

16:05

doesn't sleep at that time so then

16:07

I became isn't a little bit more

16:09

isolated. In her

16:12

mind what she means is

16:14

a community of mom's like

16:16

her cool mom's more specifically

16:18

who are honest about how

16:21

shitty parenting can be and

16:23

eventually she finds it. What

16:26

I found. Was. A good way

16:28

to kind of take the edge off and make

16:30

me feel connected. To. The world. Was.

16:33

Having some wine, And.

16:36

Reading. Blogs. And. Then

16:38

I started a blog. me and I

16:40

sound real connection. I was like oh

16:42

my gosh, thirds of there are other

16:44

women other moms out there having their

16:46

wine at the end of the day.

16:49

Griping. About how much harder this is

16:51

than any of us. Would. Admit.

16:53

Outloud, I don't have shop for

16:56

diapers. That's the high point of my

16:58

day. This is bullshit. I hate. This

17:00

is not my lays on and on

17:02

blogs. We're all complaining about it. We

17:04

are all like breastfeeding is or a

17:06

bow like this was me. I am.

17:09

And it was fun! And then I got

17:11

a book deal for my first book which

17:13

was sippy Cups are Not for Shard Ne

17:15

and I was like. Now is

17:17

where I can be myself. I

17:20

can raid, I can. Have

17:22

a book deal. And. All

17:25

of my edgy thoughts.

17:28

Had somewhere to go. And then

17:30

that book up published. And

17:32

I sound. Real connection either.

17:35

People hated the book and were like

17:37

you're a terrible mom and you sound

17:39

like an alcoholic which I was like,

17:41

whatever, you don't you don't get it.

17:44

Or. People were like oh my God

17:46

this you speak to me. You're in my

17:48

head having all the things I'm thinking. Thank

17:50

you for writing this book. You know this.

17:53

Early before there were a bunch of bad

17:55

mommy bucks islam. Spray. surface

17:57

yes yes you are really on a kind

18:00

edge here. Yeah, so I feel like

18:02

it kind of reinforced this

18:05

thing in me that was like, yeah, you're

18:07

not doing something wrong. You're

18:09

doing something right. And a lot of other people

18:12

are doing it right along with you. But

18:16

even so, even

18:18

though I was drinking safely from my,

18:21

you know, living room, watching TV,

18:24

hanging out, taking good care of my kid,

18:26

I still had the

18:28

nagging thing of like, I do drink too

18:31

much though. And what were you

18:33

drinking? Like what was the... I

18:35

wasn't drinking that much. It was more like

18:37

the need for it. You know, plus at

18:40

that point, I was

18:42

taking Xanax, which I was prescribed for

18:45

my postpartum anxiety, but I

18:47

was mixing it. You know, I never told when

18:50

I was prescribed Xanax, I wouldn't say, also, you

18:52

should know I drink three glasses of wine every

18:54

night. So, you

18:57

know, they don't need to know that.

18:59

Like that's just the thing I need. I also

19:02

need the Xanax, but I also need to drink,

19:04

but they don't need to know about each other.

19:07

And it's none of their business, you know, I'm fine. And

19:11

so I'm on Zoloft, I'm taking

19:13

Xanax and drinking wine every night. This

19:24

show is sponsored by BetterHelp. A common misconception

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help.com/Last Day. Tell

20:20

me about your mom's kitchen. I'm

20:25

Michele Norris. The kitchen is

20:28

usually the heartbeat of our homes.

20:30

It's the place where we're nourished

20:32

physically and spiritually. It's where the

20:34

people we love most chased away

20:36

life's furies with skillets and spatulas.

20:40

Every week I'm serving up a new

20:42

episode of this Audible original podcast called

20:44

Your Mama's Kitchen. They're available anywhere

20:47

you listen. We are back.

20:53

We are back. So every

20:55

night as a new mom, Stephanie unwinds

20:57

with Xanax and wine. And

21:01

although she's found her people in

21:03

the mommy blogging ecosystem who also

21:05

like to drink, she

21:07

still can't quell that nagging voice inside

21:09

her head that tells her maybe

21:12

it's too much. And

21:14

then one Halloween when her daughter

21:16

is one, she drinks so

21:18

much that she can't remember what

21:20

part of the night the next day. I

21:24

had this incident where I went trick or

21:26

treating with some other parents

21:28

and I got drunk the

21:31

next day. My husband was like, wow, you

21:33

really bonded with our friend's

21:35

mom, like the grandma of the little

21:37

kids. Apparently I made

21:40

her my best friend and, you know, we were

21:42

like going to keep in touch. I

21:44

had no memory of it at all. I

21:47

felt really ashamed, like the grandma of the

21:49

little kids. Apparently I

21:51

made her my best friend and, you know,

21:53

we were like going to keep in touch. I

21:56

had no memory of it at all. I

21:58

felt really ashamed. That like

22:00

wow. Okay so this. Behavior.

22:03

From my twenties. You

22:06

know, And thirty's. Is

22:08

still like I don't know if I thought it

22:10

would just go away when I had a baby,

22:12

or I was gonna drink responsibly, or I'm just

22:15

having a few glasses of wine at night. And

22:17

and then here I was again. Like.

22:19

Oh God. I can control this and now

22:21

I'm acting in this way And what if

22:23

I did that? What is? My.

22:26

Daughter was older. And

22:28

I was like shrunk around her. That's

22:30

a nightmare. I don't want that to

22:32

happen. So I decided I was really

22:34

going to quit drinking. And.

22:37

Like she's to sell. Never have any

22:39

memory of me drinking. I'm quitting drinking

22:41

and I you. Really?

22:43

Like after friend for help I

22:45

went to some like recovery meetings.

22:47

I really meant business. But. He

22:50

didn't do anything. Different.

22:52

I didn't. Get a sponsor

22:54

I didn't. Do

22:57

any reading As I was I go crazy.

22:59

You know who has like at a time.

23:02

For face, I'm a mom. like I'm

23:04

super busy, right? I? You guys are

23:07

so. Very

23:10

lazy only that seems like what you guys

23:12

are doing things like a lotta work. I

23:14

think what I'm gonna do is is not

23:16

drink and that is he dead. So.

23:19

For about six weeks, Stephanie goes without

23:21

drinking at all, even though she isn't

23:23

doing any of the work that might

23:26

help sobriety stick. And soon after she

23:28

finds out she's pregnant again, this time

23:30

with twins. Now, when she was pregnant

23:33

the first time for Obe, he told

23:35

her it was okay to have at

23:37

most two drinks a week or pregnant.

23:40

She could also eat sushi. I

23:42

mean listen, this was a different.

23:45

Time more loosey goosey that

23:47

the. Pregnancy hormones are making her

23:49

super nauseous, so any inclination she

23:51

has to drink is completely obliterated.

23:54

So. after seventy gives birth she's gone

23:56

nine months without drinking a drop

23:59

of out at all, and she's

24:01

been totally okay. Which

24:03

solidifies in her mind that she

24:05

is obviously not an alcoholic. So

24:08

obviously, it is totally okay for

24:10

her to drink again. And now,

24:12

with two newborns, two,

24:15

and a two-year-old, she

24:17

feels like she really needs it. And frankly,

24:20

deserves it. So I talked

24:23

myself back into, I can totally

24:25

handle this now, I'm going to

24:27

drink responsibly, and

24:29

then I was so relieved.

24:32

Oh, I had a glass of wine, and it was so

24:34

nice, and then I had another glass of wine, and then

24:36

I went

24:39

back to drinking

24:42

every couple nights, and

24:44

then that moved pretty soon.

24:47

I was drinking every night

24:49

again. And pretty soon, I was

24:51

like, you know what? I can't take a night

24:54

off. I had the flu one

24:56

time, and was like, you know what? Alcohol

24:59

is probably good for me. I'm going to make a

25:01

whiskey in tea. Somehow,

25:03

the games

25:06

I would play with my brain of like,

25:09

it's healthy. I

25:13

need to kill the germs. This is

25:15

the way. Exactly. He's an antiseptic. A

25:17

lot of people don't know that, but

25:19

they're not into the wellness like I

25:21

am. So yeah, I did that,

25:24

and I would have this nagging voice of

25:26

like, this can't be good for my liver.

25:28

This can't be good for me, but I really, I need it.

25:35

Eventually, Stephanie starts to listen to

25:37

that nagging little voice inside

25:39

her head, and does try

25:41

to cut back. She starts making bargains

25:44

with her cells. You know, she'll only

25:46

have one drink, or she'll only drink

25:48

every other night. So

25:50

I would just try to go, okay, I'm going to wait

25:52

until the babies are in bed, and then I'll

25:55

have a glass of wine. And then

25:57

I'd have more, and then I'd take my Xanax,

25:59

and then I would be passed out by like

26:01

9 p.m. and my husband would do

26:04

the lion's share of the nighttime. But

26:07

I told myself, you know, well, hey, he's at work

26:09

all day. I'm with these kids all

26:11

day. He can

26:13

do the middle of the night feedings. Like,

26:15

that's fine. I didn't feel that

26:18

bad about it. And at a certain

26:20

point, I was

26:22

like, you know, moderating is

26:24

exhausting. It's

26:26

making all these rules and then breaking all

26:29

these rules. And you

26:31

know what? It's not that bad. I'm

26:34

very high functioning. And if

26:36

this is just how I drink, then this is just

26:38

how I drink. And I think what I should do

26:41

is be kinder to

26:43

myself and just go, I'm

26:45

just some, I just like to drink. I'm just going

26:47

to drink every night. And I

26:49

think it's the trying to control it that

26:51

makes me drink more. So if

26:54

I don't try to control it and

26:56

I just have as much as I want, then

26:58

my body will tell me. Intuitive

27:02

drinking. Yes. Practicing

27:04

mindfulness. That's right. So that's how I

27:06

thought. I was like, I'm just

27:08

going to drink every single night, but I will

27:10

never drive drunk. For

27:15

Stephanie, this is the definitive line in

27:18

the sand. She'll only drink

27:20

in a safe space when her husband is around to

27:22

help keep an eye on the kids. But

27:25

in May 2009, her friend invites her

27:27

to a party and she

27:29

desperately needs to cut loose and have some fun.

27:32

So she leaves one of the twins at home

27:34

with her husband and takes the two other kids

27:36

with her, which is totally fine because

27:38

there's a nanny at the party specifically

27:41

there to watch the kids while the

27:43

moms hang out. And

27:46

I remember thinking, ah, this

27:48

is so fun. I'm

27:51

with adults. And she

27:53

was serving flavored martinis, apricot flavored

27:55

martinis. And I was having the

27:57

best time. My girlfriend had

27:59

brought me. And I think

28:01

her and with her daughter and we

28:03

were all just having fun and I had a martini

28:06

And I'm like it's early in the evening. I can

28:08

have a drink and then you know, I'll be able

28:10

to drive home later But

28:12

of course one drink felt

28:14

good having fun enjoying myself. She

28:17

pours me another drink. I'm like

28:19

drinking I'll be fine and

28:21

then I do remember Like

28:24

my girlfriend who was with me saying are you

28:26

gonna be okay to drive

28:28

and I found that so offensive

28:31

obviously Obviously, I'm not

28:33

leaving for a while Like

28:35

I would just get so annoyed if anybody was

28:37

trying to monitor my drinking I think I know

28:39

what I'm doing and then

28:41

my husband was trying to call me and I

28:44

was ignoring his calls because like What

28:46

is why does he need me? He's home

28:48

with one baby. He should be feeling good

28:53

But he always had questions for me. You know what

28:55

I mean? And I felt like

28:58

I'm enjoying myself I'm

29:00

having a good time. Let me just

29:02

have a good time and just stop

29:04

everybody leave me alone. I Remember

29:08

that feeling and then I had another drink

29:10

and I probably had one more and then

29:12

at some point My

29:14

friend was like you're John

29:16

is trying to call you You

29:19

need to call him back and I do

29:21

remember calling him back and saying I'm coming

29:23

home like enough And

29:26

I've gotten the car and then I drove home.

29:29

It's probably like a five-minute drive and

29:32

then I got out of the car my husband was

29:34

in the driveway and he was super

29:38

pissed and He

29:40

was I just never seen him. My husband is

29:43

a very low-key Even-tempered

29:45

man and he was

29:47

furious Which made

29:49

me furious? Because I

29:51

was like, I just I just wanted

29:53

a night to like enjoy myself Why can't I

29:56

just have a night to enjoy myself and he

29:58

was like you're drunk You're drunk,

30:00

you can barely walk. And I

30:02

didn't think I was drunk, I did not feel

30:04

drunk. And I went

30:07

in the house and he put the babies, the kids

30:09

to bed and I clearly

30:12

slept on the couch because that's where I woke up. And

30:16

I was like, what the

30:18

fuck did I do? Memories

30:21

of the night before start to come back to her

30:24

in flashes and Stephanie

30:26

realizes that she has crossed her

30:28

own line in the sand. Thankfully,

30:31

her kids were fine and are

30:33

still fine. But the realization that

30:35

she drove drunk with them in

30:37

the car was earth shattering. I

30:41

was incredibly hungover. I was going back and

30:43

forth to the bathroom. I had an insane

30:46

migraine. I was throwing

30:48

up. I was

30:50

so humiliated. I knew that he'd

30:54

been right the night before. I was like, oh, I

30:56

was drunk. And

30:59

I was trying to piece back together what

31:02

my thought process was because

31:04

I'm not somebody who would drive

31:07

drunk with my kids in the car. Yet

31:10

I did that. I did this thing and

31:13

I thought from outside of my body. I

31:17

saw myself and I thought,

31:20

who is that person who

31:22

would do that? I would have so

31:24

harshly judged another mom

31:27

for doing that. So what is it

31:29

about me that I

31:31

keep making these bad decisions that when I

31:33

think I'm not going to, that even this

31:35

thing, this line in the sand that I

31:37

drew that for good reason,

31:40

I would never cross. And then I just

31:42

crossed it with no regard,

31:44

not even any forethought. No, like,

31:46

oh, I'm about to, if I have another

31:48

drink, I'll end up being drunk and then

31:51

I'm gonna drive. None of that came into

31:53

my head and I did that. And

31:56

I just felt such deep

31:58

shame. And I thought like, what's,

32:01

what's going to happen? Is my husband, does he

32:03

want to, is he going to want to divorce?

32:06

Like I thought who would do this? I felt

32:08

like the worst person

32:10

on the planet and

32:12

who could forgive that. Stephanie's

32:17

mind is racing. The

32:19

shame she's been carrying around her

32:22

entire life has reached

32:24

a fever pitch. And

32:27

she finally realizes that from this

32:29

point on, she only has one

32:31

option. The

32:35

only thing I can do is

32:38

not drink. That's the only control

32:40

that I have. You know,

32:43

cause once I drink, I don't

32:45

know what's going to happen. I know I'm unpredictable.

32:49

So the only thing that is within my

32:51

control is not doing the thing

32:53

that makes me go out of control. So

32:55

I just had a moment of bravery and I went in and

32:57

I sat down on the bed, my bed

33:03

next to my husband and he was still

33:05

mad. You

33:08

know, he opened his eyes and he just stared at

33:10

me and I just started crying. And

33:12

I was like, I have, I must have a problem.

33:15

I have a problem. I have a problem. I

33:17

think I'm an alcoholic. And

33:19

then he was like, no, you're not an

33:22

alcoholic. You didn't mean to like, just sometimes,

33:24

you know, you drink too much. You gotta

33:26

just not drink that much and you can't

33:28

drive when you've been drinking. And I said,

33:31

I know, but I did. I

33:34

drove. I know I'm not supposed to do

33:37

that. Of course I'm not supposed to do

33:39

that. I did it

33:41

though. Why did I do it? I,

33:43

the only explanation I can give you is

33:45

that I have a drinking problem. It

33:49

was horrible. It was a horrible

33:51

morning. I had to

33:53

convince my husband that I have a drinking problem

33:56

and I called my friend And

33:59

I was. Crying and I said I

34:01

need help. Because.

34:04

I can't. Do this

34:06

by myself. I just can't. I don't know what

34:08

to do. I don't know to

34:10

do. I'm scared to make this change,

34:13

but I can't go on the way.

34:15

I can't go on like this. I

34:17

did not want to ever feel this

34:19

feeling again. This sad.

34:22

This embarrassed. This ashamed

34:24

I was like I don't want to feel

34:26

the ceiling anymore and the only way I

34:28

can avoid silliness feeling is to not drink.

34:31

And I told her what happened. And

34:34

she. Said I'm going to help you. Seventies.

34:37

Friends who was actively an addiction

34:39

recovery herself at the time takes

34:41

her to a Tuesday meeting. Bears.

34:44

Stephanie cries and shares her

34:46

story and she is welcomed

34:48

with open arms. But. An

34:50

undercurrent of discomfort. Remains.

34:53

She is not one hundred percent

34:55

sure that this is the place

34:57

for her. She isn't even sure

34:59

she is an alcoholic. It's

35:02

so hard to explain, but it was like. I'm

35:05

not what I think of an

35:07

alcoholic, but I'm also so unpredictable

35:09

and I've never been able to

35:11

get back the predictability. Ever.

35:14

From the time I was fourteen, two. now as

35:16

I'm like I'm forty two years old, it's never

35:18

gone in a good direction. Is

35:20

only been going in a bad direction. For

35:23

a long time, I just didn't want to see

35:25

myself that way. I didn't want to. Be

35:29

like. You. Know the person

35:31

who got for do you eyes or the

35:33

personally love custody their kids or I was

35:35

like but i not the boss. And.

35:37

As others see, I'm a very special

35:40

case and I think there should be

35:42

special meetings for special cases like me,

35:44

You know? I

35:46

said I felt very special house and I

35:49

used to share about it right in my

35:51

meetings and they'd be like well I'm

35:53

very like. Hi bottom you

35:55

know once I was very high functioning

35:57

and one day this woman came up.

36:00

The and she was like. You. Do.

36:02

Drove drunk with your kids in the car.

36:04

snuff that fancy. I

36:07

was like oh. She's.

36:10

right? I just I

36:12

set myself apart. you know? I'm

36:15

like a deer. I'm cooler, I'm not

36:17

like you but it all comes from

36:19

this insecurity that like I'm a piece

36:21

of shit. So. It. Was

36:23

as I had to keep reminding myself

36:25

that it really doesn't matter. It really

36:27

doesn't matter. Why I'm here are when

36:29

it matters that I don't wanna drink.

36:32

What helped me was hearing other people

36:34

be brutally honest about themselves. And

36:36

so I to I got real on us.

36:47

Meet. Jeanette Mccurdy. She's an author, writer, and

36:49

a big sealer. So much so that she's

36:51

making a podcast about all of her feelings.

36:54

Tennis memoir. I'm glad my Mom died. Welcome

36:56

the world into the story of Jeanette and

36:58

all of the intense life experiences that molded

37:00

her into the person she is today. But

37:02

how does she managed to hold the messy,

37:04

hard feelings she's feeling right now? in each

37:06

episode of Hard Feelings? Her new podcast with

37:09

Lemon on a Media will tell you all

37:11

about it. Jealousy, same social anxiety. She wants

37:13

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37:15

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37:17

Why. These hard feelings are a big part

37:19

of the human condition. They unite us all

37:22

but only ones we're willing to say some

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using Listen To Hard Feelings on Amazon Music

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Can't.

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Get enough of your favorite Lemon on a

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our exclusive subscriber audio. check out a free

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trial of Lemonade, a Premium Snow, and the

38:01

Apple Podcast app by clicking on our podcast

38:04

logo and then the subscribe button. Stephanie.

38:12

Has spent most of her life denying

38:14

that she has. A drinking problem

38:16

and. Now she is getting

38:18

real honest about the fact that

38:20

she does. She. Is

38:22

in fact an alcoholic?

38:25

a pivotal realization for

38:27

her personally, but potentially

38:29

kind of sucked for

38:31

her professionally. Your.

38:34

Entire brand was drinking and being a mom.

38:36

I mean. That's also. Part

38:40

of. It right like there's that

38:42

yeah, you agency your career.

38:45

As. A writer as the cool

38:47

mom. Is sort

38:49

of sitting on top of this. I

38:52

drink I blog. I

38:54

saw can talk real shit

38:56

about motherhood. Yes. Yeah.

38:58

And. Dollars of

39:01

really scary moment. So. Of.

39:04

A couple days after I. Made

39:07

the decision to quit. He. Knows

39:09

what kind of blogging regularly at that point.

39:11

and like you said, guy was known as

39:13

that. I had bravado and I like to

39:16

drain get it was fun and it was

39:18

edgy and I had an edgy sense of

39:20

humor and you know, called everybody bitch and

39:22

I'm still do by the way but I.

39:27

Did then do now But you

39:29

know, yes. talks about drinking So

39:31

all of a sudden I'm like

39:33

oh no I wanted update my

39:35

blog but. I'm known for

39:37

being honest and how am I

39:39

gonna not say that I quit

39:41

drinking? Side. Decided that

39:43

I was going to. Tell.

39:46

My blog readers. But.

39:49

Just say you know. Even though

39:51

I had written a book and it was, it

39:53

was a pretty big book. my

39:56

blog was still really small it

39:58

wasn't blogging was not as popular

40:00

probably at that time by then.

40:02

So I was like, I'm

40:04

just gonna, these are like my core readers.

40:07

I'm gonna tell them my decision.

40:09

So I wrote out this blog

40:12

post and I was like, I

40:14

didn't say anything about the drinking and

40:16

driving, but I was like, I, you

40:19

know, I know I'd talk a lot about, I

40:21

don't remember exactly what I said, but it was,

40:23

you know, I've been drinking too much. And

40:26

I decided on Friday that I

40:28

quit and I don't drink anymore.

40:31

And I voiced for

40:34

impact. I just thought, Oh gosh,

40:36

what are these people gonna say?

40:39

And everybody was

40:41

really positive. People were like, Oh

40:43

my gosh, I've been worried about

40:45

my own drinking. Wow. Good

40:48

for you. Congratulations. I

40:51

remember one commenter was

40:53

like, you know, you

40:55

think everybody drinks, but over here

40:57

on the other side of the fence, there

41:00

are a lot of moms who don't drink

41:02

or don't drink to excess that are shop

41:05

running your kids Girl Scout trips that are,

41:07

you know, that, and we're happy

41:09

to have you over here. And I

41:12

was like, Oh, wow. Oh God.

41:15

That sounds like a nightmare. Yeah. I

41:18

was like, you don't know me. No, no, no. So

41:21

I felt I was like,

41:23

okay. Okay. This was good. I

41:28

got it out there. And now I can

41:30

talk. I can talk about this and I've

41:32

been open and everybody was really nice. And

41:34

okay, cool. Like

41:36

maybe a week after that, my

41:39

phone started blowing up. I started

41:41

getting emails and phone calls from

41:44

talk shows and from Dr. Phil

41:47

in particular called me. They

41:50

all were like, Oh, we heard that you quit

41:53

drinking and you want to come on

41:55

the show and talk about it and the sippy

41:57

cups mom and, and you stopped drinking.

41:59

And And I was like,

42:02

what? What is

42:04

going on? I mean, I was

42:07

10 days sober at this point. What

42:10

was going on is that a columnist

42:12

for The New York Times has found

42:14

Stephanie's blog post and written about it

42:16

in her column, essentially outing her to

42:19

the world. And the

42:21

world is not as kind to her

42:23

as her small group of loyal blog

42:26

readers. People were like,

42:28

she should have her kids taken away. She's

42:32

horrible. Oh, my God.

42:34

Oh, and a lot of them were like, something

42:38

about like these stay-at-home moms and like,

42:41

all they do is drink and like, you know,

42:44

so spoiled and she should try having

42:46

a job. And, you know, she's so

42:48

selfish. It was just, it was very

42:51

jarring and very awful. And

42:54

of course, I said, no, I didn't want to

42:56

do any interviews. And I was very

42:58

freaked out. It

43:02

was just like a hard time. Yeah.

43:06

And I cried and I was like, I didn't ask for this. But

43:09

I had outed myself on

43:12

my blog, but still to like

43:14

a few hundred readers. And this went out to

43:16

like, you know, a million

43:19

or more readers. And

43:21

then the book continues to refuse the interviews

43:23

and the buzz eventually dies down. And

43:26

then four months later, a different writer

43:28

for The New York Times reaches out

43:30

for a proper one-on-one interview. Not

43:32

the kind of sensationalized gotcha segments that

43:35

you'll see on Dr. Phil, for example.

43:37

This is kind of sensationalized

43:39

gotcha segments that you'll see on Dr.

43:41

Phil, for example. This is a

43:43

real interview. Stephanie's

43:47

still a little wary, but she figures this

43:49

is her chance to tell her own story

43:51

in her own words. So she

43:53

says yes. I thought it

43:56

might feel, I'd feel

43:58

very exposed, and I did. But

44:01

it also helped me because

44:03

I felt accountable. And also

44:05

a lot of people started reaching

44:07

out to me and saying, thank you for

44:09

your honesty. And I started hearing from

44:12

a lot of moms saying I relate

44:14

and I think I might

44:17

have a drinking problem too. What should I do? I

44:19

was like, I don't know. Here's

44:21

the work for me. I don't know.

44:24

But like, I'm glad that helped in some

44:26

way. But then that kind of got me

44:28

thinking, OK, well, maybe I can help just

44:30

by telling my story. But

44:33

I did not want to reveal the drinking

44:35

and driving part. I was really scared because

44:37

I was like, if these people are freaking

44:39

out, I was basically

44:41

admitting to drinking too much wine every night at

44:43

home. Well,

44:45

my kids were safe in bed and, you know,

44:47

right. These people want my head

44:49

for that. And then when

44:52

I tell them that I drove drunk

44:54

in my car and that's what caused

44:56

me to quit drinking, I was like,

44:59

oh, I'll be crucified. So

45:01

I just kept that part to myself. And

45:03

I rationalized it. I was like, you know, I

45:05

am telling my story and it

45:07

is helping people. So like, can't

45:09

I keep part of it private? I

45:11

don't owe anybody. Like that's

45:14

my that's my story. And

45:17

nobody else needs to know that. My

45:19

friends, other sober people in

45:21

my community, like they all know

45:23

that, but they understand and people

45:25

other people wouldn't understand. Four

45:29

years later, Stephanie is hosting a

45:31

parenting show for Nickelodeon called Parental

45:33

Discretion with Stephanie Wilder Taylor. It

45:36

comes on every night between the hours of 10

45:38

p.m. to 2 a.m. She

45:40

still hasn't publicly shared the drinking and driving

45:43

part of the story. And

45:46

I got asked to do Katie Couric. She

45:48

was going to simultaneously promote my new

45:50

talk show. And also, I was going

45:53

to be weighing in about the mommy

45:55

wine culture. So like

45:57

two nights before I'm going to go on the

45:59

show. One of the producers calls me

46:01

and says, hey, we found

46:03

this YouTube video where you

46:06

talked about drinking and driving with

46:08

your kids in the car. Now,

46:10

I had done this show called Listen

46:12

to Your Mother. It was a charity

46:15

show. I didn't know it was

46:17

being recorded. I mean,

46:19

if I did know they were videotaping it, I

46:21

didn't know they were putting it on YouTube. And

46:23

I had told this story because it wasn't like

46:25

no one could know about it. It's just that

46:27

I hadn't talked about it on TV. So

46:31

I said, oh, oh, like,

46:34

OK. And

46:37

she was like, well, Katie really wants to talk

46:40

about it. And I said, no,

46:42

I don't want to talk. I've

46:44

never I've never shared that. I

46:48

don't want to. And I was really

46:50

scared. And I I

46:52

said, I was like, no one will understand

46:54

that people will be really mad. And I

46:56

don't want to do that. And I'm

46:59

like, I'm hosting a show

47:02

for moms about parenting like a like

47:04

that's not going to be a good

47:07

look. No. And

47:09

then she was like, OK, well, I just I

47:11

really think you could help other people by telling

47:13

this story. And will you think about it? And

47:16

I said, OK, I thought about it. No,

47:19

I don't want to know. And

47:21

then I said, listen, you have time. You can

47:23

book somebody else like. But if you're going to

47:25

ask me about that, I'm not coming. So

47:28

then she was like, no, no, no, don't

47:30

worry about it. It's fine.

47:32

We won't ask you that. So

47:35

I was like, OK. And so

47:37

I went and did Katie Couric. And sure

47:39

enough, she immediately she was like, so I

47:41

heard you got drunk and drove your kids

47:43

in the car. And.

47:45

It was it

47:49

was just an awful, awful moment. I just

47:51

felt like time stopped. It

47:55

was like slow motion, you know, where you're

47:57

just I was like, OK,

47:59

I'm. On TV, representing

48:01

a show, I froze for

48:04

a minute. So

48:07

I was like, yeah, I did. And

48:10

that was, you know, a wake up call for

48:12

me. I never thought that was something I would

48:14

ever do. And it was awful. And

48:17

I never drank again. That

48:19

was the last time I drank. And I

48:22

braced what is gonna happen

48:24

now. It was another one of those moments,

48:27

like after I blogged about it.

48:29

And I was really scared and

48:32

embarrassed. And I cried, you know,

48:34

after the show. The

48:36

publicist for the TV show was there

48:38

and she wasn't mad. She was

48:41

like, well, it was fine. It was good. I

48:44

was like, it was? I

48:46

just said that I drove drunk on TV.

48:49

She was like, no, it's okay. You're

48:51

sober now. And then

48:53

I started getting all these emails

48:56

after that show aired. And they were all

48:59

nice. Like, oh

49:01

my gosh, I feel the same.

49:03

I just started getting more of that. And

49:06

that, I

49:08

think that's when I truly felt like,

49:10

okay, I'm not the worst person

49:12

on the planet. Like

49:15

many other people have felt the way I

49:17

do. I just felt

49:19

so much less alone and so connected

49:22

to other people. I think that was

49:24

like that last piece that

49:27

I still felt secretly like I was

49:29

some kind of freak. You know, that

49:31

yes, other sober people understand it and

49:33

sober moms understand it, but nobody else

49:36

would understand. And I was

49:38

just, I think I was just carried around still shame

49:40

about it. And I was still so mad at myself,

49:43

you know? But I do think

49:45

that even though

49:47

I didn't wanna do that and I didn't wanna

49:49

say that, I do think it helped me. It

49:52

freed me up a little bit. And

49:56

like ever since then, I've been pretty open about

49:58

it. It's not

50:01

like I go announcing it everywhere I go. Hi,

50:03

I'm Stephanie, I drove drunk with my kids in the car. So

50:08

nice to meet you. What's the worst thing you've ever done? I

50:10

don't do that. My

50:15

brother, his whole brand was like, I do

50:17

drugs, casually. I'm the

50:19

drug guy. And

50:21

then he died. You know what I mean? It's

50:25

hard, I think, when you tether

50:27

yourself to something like

50:30

that. And you've been able

50:32

to sort of get yourself out of it and

50:35

continue on with this, as a writer,

50:38

and evolving, and

50:40

all of that. And I

50:43

didn't mean to make you feel bad with that. Did I

50:45

make you feel bad? I'm like, my brother died. No, but

50:48

you know what I mean. Yeah,

50:50

I just came up when I was reading

50:53

your book. Well, I never set out to

50:55

be the wine girl. So

50:57

I do look back and go, I hope

51:00

I wasn't encouraging people

51:02

to drink. And I

51:05

probably was. I probably was making

51:07

it OK. But you

51:10

know better and you do better. That's

51:13

right. I don't regret

51:15

writing that book, because the book wasn't

51:17

about, hey, everybody should drink. It was

51:20

giving people permission to be imperfect parents.

51:22

That's right. So I don't feel

51:24

bad about that. But I did blog

51:26

a lot. And there were a lot of

51:28

alcohol jokes in the book. So I did

51:31

feel like I owed it to

51:33

my audience. That sounds so like

51:35

my audience. But to the people that followed me,

51:37

I did feel like I owed them, if I'm

51:39

going to be honest about stuff, I owed them

51:42

the truth that I take it back.

51:46

But some of those women, it started

51:49

a new little trend. I'm

51:51

a trendsetter. What can I say? You

51:53

are. We set your trailblazer. A

51:56

bunch of these mommy drinker wine

51:58

people also got

52:00

sober, all of us around the same

52:02

time, like one after another, like

52:05

Domino's fell. And

52:08

I think it's, yes, there is

52:10

still mommy wine culture, there's still the

52:12

Rose all day and that

52:14

that is still alive and well. But

52:16

I also think it's a valid choice.

52:19

There are other women like me that

52:21

are not drinking and talking about that.

52:25

And so I feel

52:27

like people can have examples of both things.

52:30

Whatever the world thinks of Stephanie, at the

52:32

end of the day, she is still a

52:34

mom who's just trying to figure

52:36

out how to be a human who was

52:39

raising three other humans.

52:42

And those humans have very much

52:44

been a part of her recovery journey

52:46

and they continue to be. How

52:49

old are your kids now? My

52:51

twins are 16 and my older

52:53

daughter is 19. Wow. And

52:56

what do they think about all this? How are

52:58

they like, where are they in a story now?

53:00

Do they know about all this? Oh

53:02

yeah, I've been open with them

53:04

since early on. When I first

53:07

started talking to them about it, I said,

53:09

this is an allergy. Mom has an allergy.

53:11

I don't do well

53:13

with alcohol. I can't have it.

53:15

Because I have a reaction where

53:17

I forget everything I did and drive drunk. No, I

53:19

don't say it didn't say all that when they were

53:22

younger. But then I did. I was very honest with

53:24

them. I said, you know how I am with sugar?

53:26

When I have a little sugar, I just can't stop

53:28

and I want more and more and more. And I

53:30

have like no control over it. Well, that's how I

53:32

was with alcohol. So that's why I just don't have

53:35

it. And then I would

53:37

take these breaks from sugar. I'm on

53:39

one now. I haven't had sugar in like six months.

53:41

But I would, when it

53:43

would get bad, I would take a break and I

53:46

would tell my kids like I'm on a sugar break because

53:48

you know, I was getting a little crazy with it. I

53:50

couldn't stop. So I'm just not having it at all

53:52

right now. And so

53:54

my kids just came to understand it. And

53:58

they just got used to it. But I also don't

54:01

go, drinking's bad. My

54:03

husband drinks. It's very much

54:05

in moderation. It's never been a problem. They've

54:07

never seen him drunk. And

54:09

they also know, my older daughter, I was

54:11

like, look, you're going to experiment with drinking.

54:14

I did. I drank at 14.

54:17

It wasn't great for me. But if you drink,

54:20

you need to call me and my

54:22

daughter has drank. And guess what?

54:24

It did kind of trigger me. I didn't tell

54:27

her that, but it upset me. It

54:29

got scared. But

54:32

I worked it through with somebody else that

54:34

I trust. And I talked to my husband

54:37

about it. And I was like, she's not

54:39

me. We'll

54:41

see what happens. But kids

54:43

are going to experiment. And I can't freak

54:46

out about it. And so I didn't with

54:48

her. I was very calm. I talked

54:50

her through her hangover. And

54:54

she's 19. She's been

54:56

really responsible. And who knows? I

54:59

don't know. My kids could all end up as addicts. I

55:01

don't know. But they'll be able to talk to

55:03

me about it. I

55:10

guess I've done this show about addiction for so long. Why

55:12

do you think some people relapse

55:15

and some people don't relapse? Like how

55:17

have you stayed? I just I'm always

55:20

looking for it. I

55:22

think people relapse because they

55:24

have a drinking problem. Like

55:27

I always people are

55:29

always people that are in recovery are

55:31

always so embarrassed. Like if they have

55:34

a relapse, but like it's not a

55:36

weakness of character. It's not we're not

55:38

doing this on willpower. Nobody's doing anything

55:40

wrong. People relapse because they're

55:42

addicts, you know, because this is a

55:45

hard thing we're doing. And I don't

55:47

know. This

55:49

like makes me emotional. I don't know. I don't

55:51

know why I've been

55:54

able to maybe because I have

55:57

privilege and I have a lot of support.

56:00

And I've, you know, have, I

56:04

don't have the same hardships that other people

56:07

do. Or maybe, I don't

56:10

know, maybe it's just luck, you know?

56:12

I don't think it's because I'm doing

56:14

anything better than other people

56:16

are doing. I think that people

56:20

who have relapses, like, have to

56:22

forgive themselves and then

56:24

move forward. So

56:26

you no longer think that you're the special,

56:28

the special alcoholic? Oh no. You've

56:32

retired that label. No, yes. I'm

56:34

just a garden variety.

56:37

I was a garden variety, why no. I'm

56:41

so glad. It's really exhausting feeling special,

56:43

trust me. There's

56:56

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