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Hey. Welcome back to let's talk about it

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with Jackie and Meghan. Are we like to talk about things that

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are messy awkward heart or

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controversial and create a space for healing.

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Hey, guys. Welcome back to let's talk about

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it with Jackie and Meghan. Today we're on with... I think this is

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the first catholic priest we've had on our podcast

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with my friend father, Michael, who I'm gonna let you introduce yourself father

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Michael. Intimidating territory for me.

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Father, Michael Mariner, priest of the arch size piece of Chicago,

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assigned to queen of pop Paris and Lincoln Square, Chicago,

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and I am... Let's see here.

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1 1 month in 1 year and 1 month, a priest. So

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so not quite a baby priest anymore, little bit.

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Over my past... My first year. So Yeah.

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No longer no longer a neo fight. But...

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And I I'm a... I'm not a little bit older, but I

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I worked for a while after college before entering seminary. So which is

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typical nowadays. So I'm

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34 turning 35. So, you know, this year.

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So, although,

1:20

I'm 1 year into the priest on on,

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little older. So, anyways, that's

1:29

That's me. Did you grow up Catholic?

1:32

Yes. Yes. Cradle Catholic as we call it, and then

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like, any good catholic, left my faith in college.

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Not really, like, not just just drifted pretty naturally away from

1:50

it at the good old Indiana university, and then

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somehow by the Grace of God came back to fakes. So...

2:00

And then the rest of history, I guess. Yeah.

2:04

When did you feel the calling to the priest to... What age was that?

2:08

That was Yeah. So you hear different...

2:13

Sometimes it... I'd say more or less commonly.

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People feel it from a, from an early

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age. I didn't even know

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I didn't know what a priest really was

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or about a vocation to the priest really growing up.

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I just assumed Priest kinda grew on trees somewhere and came

2:36

in and I, you know, I I never really knew anything about

2:39

what what it meant to become a priest or

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anything like that. So it it was never something that I ever even

2:46

crossed my mind. I was always going to get married and have a family

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that was always my plan. And then... And even when

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I So I came back to the church.

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I never really, like, reno my faith or

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anything, like, officially or anything, but III

3:06

solely moved away. And then when I when I kinda came back, kinda had a little

3:11

bit of a rev version. I

3:14

I still did not, of, I I still... It never dawned on

3:20

me that that that was a possibility. And so I came back and, you know,

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I I was like, this is great. I've I'm, you

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know, I've I've found a I found my fate again, and it's it's

3:32

and it's beautiful and and propelling me a

3:35

lot, and you know, I was listening a lot of

3:38

podcast podcasts and things at that time, Catholic

3:41

Radio, and, you know, it was always kinda talked about... I'm assuming they talked about

3:45

the priest stood a lot, but it... But somehow that was that was going right past

3:50

me. And so... But they certainly talk about, you know, as all Christians talked about just

3:54

the the the great the great

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thing that marriages and and family life and,

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having a family. And so that was that

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was something that was always like, okay. This is great. Like, I'm you know, wanna find

4:07

a spouse and you know, have a have

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a good family and then work, and

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I was working as a as a chemist at the time. And

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and I would I would pray off, and Lord,

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help me, you know, help me find a spouse. I'm just trying to do your will

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and and you know, help me help me

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find someone good to to start a family

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as as this common a common prayer for

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those, who are seeking that and

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and kinda 1 1

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evening. I prayed that and the the notion of pizza had never ever

4:39

ever ever entered entered into my mind. Never

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even as a as a fig of my imagination and

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and very clearly at about the age of 23,

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all of a sudden, I felt planted in my heart kind of a response from God,

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saying, yes, III

5:01

desire you to to have a family, but a but a different kind of family, a

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a much larger family. And so

5:09

And that scared scared me a lot, and I I fought

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against that pretty, fiercely for for 4 years.

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As I continued working and continue

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trying to date and trying to, just, like,

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leave that as this weird thing that that kinda showed up in my life.

5:26

And then I finally got the courage to

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to say, okay. I gotta a I gotta I gotta give us a try

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we're also gonna go crazy and they kinda

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talk about going to seminar areas like, you know, it's a good way to just, like,

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go and figure out whether you have a, you know, vote

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vocation or not kinda discern it in the seminary and take a step towards that just

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to see if if god responds to that.

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And, yes. I finally decided to quit my job

5:55

and and leave the city and go off the seminary.

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Once I... From the first day of seminary, it was

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it was clear, like, oh, this is this

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where I'm supposed to be. It it was I was

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going to seminary driving up there. Think, I'm

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gonna give it a shot, You know, we'll give it a year or whatever and see,

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hopefully, it, hopefully, you know, the vocation isn't there and The

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first day I got there. It was kind of... Which was a grace because a lot

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of guys do get there, and and they

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they still are wrestling with this what I'm

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called to, you know, for for a few years a lot of times and, you know,

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people leave seminar. So it's a great grace to

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get there and feel affirmed. Like, yep. This the where I'm

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supposed to be. This is where god's calling me and

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So a lot of guys, their their prayer

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life there is is, you know, Lord, is this what you're calling me to?

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And so it it was a nice thing to have my prayer life just be a

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more basic prayer life of getting to actually,

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you know, pray about things that matter and

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not about my own future. So anyway, so that's

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probably landed where I am. Oh,

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Thank you for sharing, and I'm happy because

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I think you're a great priest. You still... You text like a dad for

7:12

sure though. So you're you are a dad.

7:16

Yeah. Friendly Living into that father. Yeah. I I prefer not to even text

7:21

at all, And I prefer to have a landline, you know, it's just to...

7:25

But so I'm so my texting is...

7:28

Mh. Okay. It's okay. Then better.

7:33

Well, we brought you on today to talk about

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the Eu G. We did have... We had a lutheran pastor

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come on and talk about the eu. And we've talked...

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We had an episode more like the evangelical view versus the Catholic view, but We wanted

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to have a Catholic priest to come on and explain

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the view since I feel like you could explain it much better than me being a

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catholic priest. And actually having studied it. So I guess

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we could just start with, could you explain the Catholic view of trans

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pronunciation? Yes. That

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that long, mysterious word.

8:09

Please in, like, 1 second. Yeah.

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You know, it's a it's it's it it's a fancy word that that

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that by no means is it's required to be

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understood. It's kind of a a kind of word that was given

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to try to to sum it up in

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a word. If it can be done, but just with

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a word that kinda of best describes our

8:35

belief, obviously, the the trans just means change and

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subs substance, change of substance. And so it's, you

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know, it's a it's just to

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kind of define our view that that

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you know, Jesus said, this is my body, and this is my

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blood. And and

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therefore, we believe that that it's his body and

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his blood, but, of course, our our experience

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shows us that

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it doesn't look like his body, You it doesn't look like his blood. Still looks like

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bread and wine. And so how to how

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to reconcile those 2 thing trying to still

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remain faithful to what Jesus said

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and and take him take him at his word, but also,

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to describe. Okay. How do we describe this in

9:30

kinda almost philosophical terms and so kinda of

9:32

relied on on a client

9:36

a client, Aristotle talks about substance and accents. So so substance.

9:41

This substance, you know, if when we use that word nowadays, it

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it's just, you know, a substance is a, you know, it's a

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liquid or, you know, a couple of water. So somehow the substance is changing where where

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the way it philosophically is used is is

9:57

that that means the essence, the the

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the... We could almost say the

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the the redness or, you know, the the

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the that's oftentimes the way it's described

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is is changed. So the accident, that's a

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fancy word of the... That philosopher theologian use for meaning, you know, what

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we what we perceive, so we could take

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a... You know, we could take a book and say this is

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this is a book. The the the substance is a book. It has a book

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to it. It, at it's very core,

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that's what it's essence is. It's a book. But then the accident are are... The things

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we perceive that that show us that it's

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a book. So, you know, we we can

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smell the the the paper of it and we can feel the the leather binding and

10:46

the pages, and we see the words and and the colors of the words and and

10:50

what the words are. So those are all the the accidental properties of it.

10:55

That that lead up to that. And so fan

10:58

is just trying to get at. It's it's the accidents

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don't change, and and we're actually

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thankful that the accidents don't change because,

11:10

that would be as far as

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receiving the body and blood of Jesus, with

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it's something we enjoy doing, and it would

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be maybe something that we wouldn't enjoy doing if

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it was literal, not only trans subs differentiation, but trans

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oxygenation or whatever you wanna call it, where everything, the accidents, the outward appearance also changed

11:33

to the taste of flesh and taste of

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blood and appearance of flesh and appearance of

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blood and and so it's just kind of

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a way we try to try to

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nail down the mystery, but again, it's a mystery. And so at the end of the

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day, what's it's a certain word that we that we

11:52

attempt to to describe our position. But at the end of the day, we

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we more or less... Our our focus is is not on to the word the the

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and all the descriptions and putting into a

12:03

nice category, but especially we're just trying to say the

12:08

essence of what we're receiving is is no longer

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bread, we're not receiving redness or receiving

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certainly under the accidents of those, you know, things the appearance, but we're receiving is Ge.

12:20

And that's... At the end of the day, that's chances in Nutshell is just saying we

12:26

believe that we receive god. We received Jesus

12:31

we receive, his life and...

12:35

Yeah. So that's a that's

12:38

more or less some things on trans subs

12:41

that that famous or intimate word. Mh.

12:47

Curious from your perspective, what the difference would

12:50

be to, like, the lutheran view. So when

12:52

we had the lutheran pastor on, He described it As like, you know, oh,

12:56

lutheran do believe. This is... Jesus body and

13:00

this is Jesus blood. We just have no

13:03

idea how exactly that's going on and it

13:05

is completely a mystery. So would you say the difference being that

13:08

Catholics Do you sort of have an idea of

13:12

how that's happening? I would say it's actually

13:16

not that we have not that we have an idea. Again, I mean, our idea is

13:20

the same as anybody else is that it's...

13:24

God has the power to to

13:27

work miracles to to create to create the

13:30

heavens and the earth to to create us to do all these things and,

13:33

as God and so, certainly,

13:36

that's... We don't understand the the way God does

13:40

what God does. It's a mystery for for anyone. I think

13:44

especially, I don't know if all lutheran

13:48

use the term, like subs pronunciation. I think

13:51

that's typically a word that that I've seen Lutheran use, which is which is

13:56

which is more a... That ton meeting with. So so with the

14:01

substance and the sense of, the bread the redness and the wine

14:07

remain, but it... But in some, way,

14:12

God's substance joins up with the bread and the wine.

14:16

And I think really, the

14:19

The big thing is that is that

14:24

Catholics use this word to describe because also

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you know, we we we don't just...

14:33

For us, the Eu Is is something that we do in the math in our in

14:36

our literacy, and we we were we received

14:39

comm, but we also... There... There's there's a sense of... Once once

14:44

Jesus, once we've once we celebrated mass, the sacrifice of the

14:49

mass and and Jesus, we've had this trans

14:52

pronunciation and Jesus is presence in the body

14:54

and you know, the body and his... His

14:57

body and blood, that that... That's that. It's a it's a

15:00

done deal. It it's it's it is that

15:03

until until it's digested by us or, yeah. And

15:09

so the... Like, we would we would say... And, you

15:13

know, so that's why we that's why we have

15:16

tab to to reserve

15:19

the cons species. That's why, you know, we do things like,

15:24

and and you know, we... When we go into a

15:27

church should be gen flagged because we we believe that that presence is still remaining. And

15:31

so it's it's kind of just described that.

15:34

I think that... That's part of it is just trying to

15:37

understand our views also, unlike like, the the the

15:40

way the presence remains there where I think,

15:44

the lutheran view doesn't have the...

15:47

Doesn't have that aspect. And so it's it's...

15:50

To say trans would be

15:53

maybe going too far because it would be

15:56

saying like, okay. This is, like, totally converted,

15:58

but, like, you know, there isn't anything that we do

16:02

to, like, un it. And so that that

16:05

that that, word really wouldn't make sense since the lu

16:09

you is more like Jesus comes into it, in in a certain way, and then and

16:14

and we receive him, but then, see he departs from it or something. So

16:19

it's a... I think that that notion is kind of where there's the difference

16:24

of of the word word choice given just kind of

16:28

the theology surrounding that aspect of it.

16:32

How that makes sense. Yeah. And so we we talked... We've talked about

16:37

the different views like evangelical view, Lutheran view,

16:40

for you, why do you find the catholic

16:42

view the most compelling in a lot of

16:45

ways because there's more explanation. Some can find the Catholic view to be

16:50

harder to believe. Because, I guess, I mean, it is

16:54

quite... It's still quite a mystery, but it can be hard to grasp.

16:58

So why is that still the most compelling

17:00

view to you versus cons

17:03

or real presence view or

17:06

well, very different as a symbol for just a

17:09

memorial. Yeah. Yeah. I'm memorial view. Right.

17:13

The there's a lot of different

17:19

answers to that. The... Certainly, we could take it, like like, a

17:24

biblical route I think, you know, Catholics

17:27

Catholics kind of,

17:31

you know, you you can look at John

17:33

6, and we we we take

17:37

Jesus saying in a very

17:40

literal way. You know, he in fact, you know, he

17:44

says, you know, you who you who eat

17:47

my my body and drink my blood, we'll we'll have life in you. And

17:52

even even in that, Bishop Barron talked about. He has his famous

17:57

Catholicism theories, and he has a an episode.

18:00

I think it's episode 7 or something that

18:02

he he talks about the Chris and kind of the the Catholic view, and and he's

18:05

talking about John chapter 6. And 1 of the things he points out

18:09

is that is that he... You know, when he says this... When

18:14

he introduces this to the crowd for the first time,

18:18

the the the crowd just startled, and they're

18:20

they're kinda questioning and going... If this guy

18:22

is gonna give us his body and his

18:24

blood to eat eat and drink. He wants us do that like that's

18:28

they're having kind of a reaction that's that's

18:30

nasty that that, you know, as as as

18:33

Jews that certainly would would not be kosher. They're not, you know, they they don't... The...

18:36

Blood is not permitted. And so, you know,

18:39

cannibalism is certainly not permitted. And so they're kind of reacting. Like, what the heck is

18:43

this guy saying and and Bishop bearing talked

18:45

about how Jesus had every every

18:48

every he he had every moment available to him

18:54

to to kind of say, oh, relax. Like, I'm just

18:58

I'm just I'm just using a figure,

19:02

bigger speech here. I'm just just speaking in

19:05

a in a metaphor way or whatever. But he actually kinda

19:09

double doubles down in that moment when they're

19:11

when they're reacting in that way. And, you know, so truly truly I say to you

19:15

unless you eat the about, the the body

19:17

of the son of man and drink his blood, you you will not have life in

19:20

you. And he actually Mister Bear likes to

19:23

talk about how he uses. There's there's there's 2 different Greek words you

19:27

can use for eats. 1 is, like, our normal kind of, like,

19:32

human normal eating, and the other 1 is is

19:35

really used for the way animal eats is

19:38

kind of, like, more translates, like, no, like

19:40

g on the bone of something, and and

19:43

and uses that no word for eats.

19:46

Very, very almost a graph would have been a a graphic term the way he doubles

19:50

down. And so just like script, we we

19:54

we, of course, and most people most people know that aspect

19:58

of the Catholic view is that we we

20:01

take Jesus words literally and and

20:05

and there's all kinds of, aspects from the old testament that we that

20:10

we... Believe leads instead, I think for my... To

20:15

answer your question of just my own view,

20:20

certainly, I I I've as as a priest and as a

20:26

former seminar and former, you know,

20:29

lake Catholic. I spent a lot of time

20:32

praying in front of the wes sacramento and and and

20:35

it's always been something very due to my heart and something

20:39

something that has been very affirming and that that there's something

20:44

special about being in that presence, and and

20:48

I don't know if it's unique. And and I think a lot of Catholic talk about

20:51

this. And

20:54

certainly, all the saints, Catholics are are are big on their saints,

20:59

and and you don't really you don't really find any sense that don't

21:05

aren't nourished by this understanding that that they're

21:08

receiving their Lord and savior, or Jesus in in

21:12

the concentrated species and and

21:15

who are being nourished by by being in its presence

21:18

in the tab angle and so just like a, you know, it's a it's

21:22

a personal kind of subjective view, but it's it it certainly has

21:27

just been something that has been, renewed in me that that it's just something...

21:32

It's something something I necessarily just believe and

21:36

because it's the catholic church teaches it, and I wanna stay in conformity with the Catholic

21:39

church, But, of course, I think we all have a experience of of,

21:45

wow, there's something there's something

21:48

real going on here. Saint Teresa of Ava,

21:52

commenting on people around who her who were saying.

21:56

You know, I really wish that I would've

21:58

been alive in the first century when Jesus is walking

22:01

the earth because I really would would like

22:03

to be in his presence and and and see

22:06

his miracles and then things like that, she

22:08

kind of says, you know, I think she she's speaking Spanish. She uses

22:14

some word like, you fooled or she says something maybe a

22:17

little harsh, but she says she says, you

22:19

know, we we truly have fully present to us

22:24

every aspect of Jesus, and and

22:29

she really believed that and and you know, it is kind of when you

22:33

sit there in in in in the church in front of in front of Jesus and

22:36

the Tab nickel. Of course, we believe, you know, a Catholic

22:39

just like anyone believes that that we can

22:42

pray everywhere, and indeed we should pray

22:44

everywhere at out at all times without ce

22:46

and and Jesus is is is truly present

22:48

to us. But there's something special about being

22:52

being promised that in his presence in a, in a even deeper way and

22:56

and you could ask, like, you know, that person

22:59

it says I wish I was there in the first century it whatever and it says,

23:02

well, well, what what would you

23:06

what would you say to Jesus or what what what would be different about that than

23:10

than Jesus in in the taro ankle? And

23:12

and And for my own experience, you know,

23:15

there's nothing I can't say to him, and and and I do feel his presence,

23:21

in that in that sacred space, and, you

23:23

know I think maybe sometimes they people

23:26

say, well, well, if I was if I was there, then, you know, I could I

23:29

could I could ask him something point blank and get an answer from him or something.

23:33

And... But, of course, Jesus, you know, the

23:35

the gospel... The gospel are full of people

23:37

asking Jesus point blank things, and it's not

23:40

like, Jesus was just, you know, walking around,

23:43

like, boom now you yeah. Now you get

23:46

it all. Now you get you understand everything

23:48

and you understand why this person died and

23:50

why this person is no. He he he

23:53

he simply came to desire people to to come to him

23:57

of their own free will through his grace

24:00

and faith in him and to to, of

24:02

course, to to to die for our sins

24:04

and to to to be our savior. And and and so,

24:10

we believe that, you know, when we're in his presence, we're we're it's not about, you

24:14

know, getting some answers to some question although, you know, we believe that he does through

24:18

his grace, you know, help us come to understand things, but it but it's about,

24:23

you know, he came to for people to to love him to fall in love with

24:26

him and and that is something that if if if you approach the

24:31

the blessed sac and Jesus presence and the blessed and sac in in faith, there... There...

24:36

There's no reason why that's not a very

24:38

fruitful venture to to be there and and feel that love

24:42

that, approach him in love and tell him,

24:46

I love him and and feel that love and return

24:49

in his present. So I think it's a... Democratic point of view, it's just a...

24:54

That is a that is 1 thing, you know, I think Love is 1 thing that

24:58

that it is like, man. If if I was present the first century and could, you

25:02

know, see, you know, love inca. Right? You

25:04

know, God is love, you know, love and inca. You know, if I can... I can

25:07

I could just be in that present? I if I could just touch his his ta,

25:11

right, and just feel that power, you know, that would be enough for me.

25:14

And if we didn't have the Eu Chris as

25:18

Catholics, we kinda would feel a little bit,

25:21

maybe jealous, But but we do feel like,

25:23

okay. But but He has promised to to

25:26

always be with us, not just in heaven

25:29

kind of out there or whatever or not in a just spiritual way, but We believe

25:33

literally, he he he came and walked to

25:36

the earth for a certain amount of time, and it was very comfortable

25:40

leaving, knowing that that or the last upper he

25:43

left us his his presence to to

25:48

call upon and and receive them into our

25:50

soul. So anyway, that was a a long

25:53

answer to simple questions. But

25:56

anyways, Is it a simple question though? No. No.

26:00

It's not. No. And as a as a priest. Right? I

26:04

mean, that's it certainly...

26:10

I remember when I was I was first thinking about the priest stood and certainly

26:15

trying to run away from it away, but I remember the vocation director at the time

26:19

telling me, you know, just give me, like, crack advice

26:22

of, like, how to, you know, continue to discern whether that was my call. And he

26:25

said, you know, you should you should try to go to math more often because

26:30

you know, the preset is pretty wrapped up

26:32

with, celebration of mass and and and and belief

26:35

in the Chris. And so, if you... If you don't grow in that

26:40

love and and and then then it doesn't make a whole lot

26:44

sense. So at the end of the day, you know, it's a, you know,

26:48

app priest... That's his kinda of number 1,

26:52

1 of his number 1, vocation and and and duties is to to,

26:59

remain devoted to that. And so obviously, any

27:01

priest they have called to to really foster a great

27:06

love for the blessed sac and because it's it's

27:11

part of who we are, part of our main job. So...

27:17

Yeah. How'd did you mentioned, like, iteration?

27:20

I know Catholics. There's even, like, almost procession too,

27:24

surrounding the G, which I feel is is

27:27

unique to catholicism compared to maybe other high church traditions.

27:32

I can't speak to orthodox. We'll leave that out for now. But

27:38

1 thing that when we were in doing the interview with the Lutheran pastor he brought

27:42

up was that in the institution, Jesus specifically said like, this is my body

27:47

take and eat. And so for Lutheran, it's super important that that's what we do is

27:51

we take we eat, and and he thought that anything

27:55

extra wasn't what Jesus

27:58

instituted. What would be sort of, like, your defense

28:01

of why Catholics do these other practices

28:05

surrounding the Eu? Yeah. I mean, the,

28:09

you know, we believe that there's that that the Eu is

28:14

is is very multifaceted.

28:18

The you know, we we, of course, like,

28:25

we we call we we call the Eu chris,

28:28

you know, it's it's that it's that greek word, which means Thanksgiving to give banks. And

28:33

so, of course, like, like, just add add mass itself

28:38

it's not like,

28:41

we're not being called to

28:44

receive comm kind of in a robotic fashion just because

28:48

that's what, you know, Jesus told to do, but, of course, we we we call it

28:50

Eu chris because it's it's this it's it's this it's a thing

28:54

we're doing that Jesus supposed to do. And and at the end of the day, it's

28:58

it's it's all about

29:00

giving thanksgiving and praise and

29:03

glory and honor and ado admiration to to

29:05

our God. And so

29:09

I would just say it's it's a It's... And, of course it it flows from

29:13

argument like we talked about the trans or

29:16

whatever. But indeed,

29:18

the the, you know, like, you're a recession,

29:21

for instance, it's it's it's more... I think sometimes it's

29:26

looked at like, oh, Catholics are just doing this this crazy thing

29:30

that they, you know, someone got this idea to do it and

29:35

But really, at its root, it's it actually,

29:37

you know, it it it's meant to be

29:41

kind of a symbol to the world of of what

29:45

of of that very thing that you said, which is, you know, to to to take

29:49

take take of this all of you and eat of it for this is my body,

29:51

and this is my blog. It's to kind of this this outward overflowing expression of thanksgiving

29:55

and and love, kind of selling it to the world,

30:01

here here is our Lord Jesus that we believe is is is present in the sacred

30:06

species. And and we receive him in holy comm and

30:12

all the world is called to receive in

30:14

holy community. And he desired every person created to to have that life

30:19

within them. And so the procession is is not about just, like,

30:24

kinda of doing, like, a, like, a cheap parade or

30:27

whatever, but it is kind of a meant to be an outward symbol, a a moment

30:31

where where the people don't just kinda do

30:34

their thing behind closed doors and, like, oh, you know, we get... You, we're we're Catholics

30:38

and and we just do this thing behind closed doors. It meant to be a kind

30:41

of moment Know we, you know, we... Our

30:43

our Parish, Chicago is

30:46

it's it's it's right there on a park, and it's a it's a busy area, and

30:51

you know, our our our Sunday masters can

30:53

can can go by without anybody noticing,

30:57

even really that that, you know, it's Sunday,

30:59

you know, and, you know, people go in. Like doors are closed. People come out, you

31:03

know, they might see them for the minute minutes before after. And so it's just a

31:07

moment that we take to it's almost a moment that we take

31:13

to show our lord to the world

31:16

and almost express our

31:19

it's it's not a... Sometimes we look at.

31:21

Like, hey. Look look look what we've got isn't this cool, but it's actually a...

31:26

Our lord Jesus said that he desires to

31:30

to to put his life into all of us and and to rob us to love

31:33

and worship him and and we we show this to

31:37

we show this to the world, because we we desire all the world to

31:41

to be in our church and come and receive holy comm with us and b b,

31:46

brothers and sisters, in in Christ. And so I think it's,

31:50

you know, it's just a... It's just been a a development of a a way to,

31:55

but also it's and we can we can get about this,

32:02

maybe get to this maybe later about, you, kind of the the, I think 1 of

32:06

the is what maybe talk about. It's gonna be the effects of receiving union, you know,

32:10

why it is even in the first place that we that we want to bring him

32:14

men to our soul in the first place

32:16

and and you know, as we believe that that Jesus is fully

32:21

present body blood full, we...

32:26

If Jesus kinda just appeared, you know, let's

32:29

say he miraculously appeared in Chicago and, you

32:31

know, knocked on our door whatever, as the king of the universe as the

32:36

the 1 who sits to the right hand of the father and will come again in

32:39

glory, you know, we would want to say, Jesus

32:42

I want I wanna take you out and show you to people, You know, like, you

32:46

who are my king, my savior.

32:48

I want I want everyone to c you c in the flesh and to I wanna

32:53

I wanna demonstrate you to all my neighborhood. I wanna

32:56

I want everyone to see you to come into contact with you to feel your presence

32:59

in their midst and that they might they

33:01

might come to love you as I love you. And so I think that's just, you

33:06

know, it's just a very simple

33:08

extrapolation of Okay. Jesus said he's, you know, he's giving

33:12

us his body his blood that he's present with us. And Jesus is God. That's who he says

33:17

he is. And so let's

33:20

let's let's let's bring him out and and and show

33:25

this king... The the king of our heart

33:27

to to all those around us. So it's

33:29

kind of a maybe also just an extrapolation of of of

33:33

that desire. You know, that's why we put him

33:36

in a monster. We don't we don't

33:38

just kinda hold him and say, hey, everybody, but we

33:42

we we put it gold monster as to

33:44

kinda of demonstrate. This is our king. This

33:46

is our king who who we are who...

33:49

We are bringing bringing around to show everybody, and we're we're

33:53

for we're holding candles at the side of

33:55

the king at a at a presence of God in our midst, and and we burn

33:59

inc as a as a fragrant offering to to

34:03

add to the glory of what we're doing to to to show up our king as

34:06

you would do with any any worldly king.

34:09

We we kinda take the position of if

34:11

if you're willing to do that in a in a parade with the with the president

34:15

or some king then then all the more, should we should we... Show off our our

34:19

great king of all of heaven an earth the, you know, the king of love, so

34:23

to speak. So... Yeah. I guess we can we can get

34:28

into that what the catholic view of receiving

34:31

what the significance is of receiving the. Also I just wanna say, I live right

34:36

next door to father Michael's michael's Parish for those watching that don't know. And I was

34:40

a part of the corpus Christi procession that

34:42

we did. Right behind father, Michael. In the park and I thought I was

34:47

struck by how beautiful that was. I hadn't done a eu procession in a while and

34:51

like, people in the park were looking over and interested, and we stops traffic

34:56

2 different streets, and I thought, like, what

34:59

a moment to show our reverence for the Eu And to show

35:02

the Eu, and I don't know. Maybe people

35:04

will think, like, what's going on there. So,

35:08

it was beautiful that I witnessed that. But, yeah, you kinda said we could get

35:13

into the the question of

35:16

what is the significance of receiving comm? Do

35:19

we receive grace, salvation?

35:22

I know we wanna specifically talk about, like, receiving forgiveness of the sins in the,

35:26

but, yeah, I know the Catholic church, there's a

35:29

few things that we... Well, several things. We

35:31

think we receive when receiving the Eu. Basically,

35:37

it it it's it's good. It's kinda relevant to, you know, I talked about kind of,

35:40

like our our extrapolation. So

35:44

you know, we we as we as we, you know, we say,

35:48

okay. And we we We believe that Jesus

35:51

is present. There's been trans subs pronunciation that

35:53

he's he's essentially substantially

35:56

present in our midst. Body blood, soul, and

35:59

so and we... Were called to

36:03

take a take his body and take up

36:05

his blood and eat it. And

36:08

we we... So we we extrapolate various things from

36:13

what it means to to

36:17

receive God into our

36:20

soul. What what what what that possibly could entail

36:25

for are live. And the

36:29

the the cat, I don't wanna, you know, we're

36:33

talking in a an ec medical way. So, you know, it's not always good to to

36:38

address the cat, but we have our our cat of the catholic church kind of, you

36:42

know, talks about all our different beliefs and

36:44

and and all our different,

36:48

but it but it... But it's it's it's

36:50

also not a bad tool to use just use just because it's it's

36:54

very much so it's very much so

36:58

dependent on scripture and the fathers of the church and whatnot. So

37:04

you know, 1 1 section is

37:07

the fruits of holy comm, the fruits of

37:10

holy comm. And

37:14

it says, I'll read this

37:17

Holy augment our union with Christ. The principal

37:20

fruits of receiving the Eu and holy

37:23

as an intimate union with Christ Jesus. So

37:27

that's that's that's the the simplified

37:30

view and we... You can extrapolate many things with that. But, basically, it's just saying, okay.

37:35

Jesus said, he's giving us his body and

37:37

blood, and more to receive that holy comm, and

37:41

therefore, so we're we're receiving Jesus

37:44

into our bodies into our souls, and therefore,

37:48

the principal fruit is Crises he's. We are we are united with

37:53

him. That's, no more needs he said so to speak.

37:58

And so then, of course, we You know, the Lord said, he who eats

38:02

my flesh and drink my blood of abide in me, and I and him, as a

38:06

living father sent me, and I live because of the father, so he eats me will

38:10

live because of me. So it's this kind of him abiding in me and I in

38:15

him. It's this it's this there's this union. And so... And

38:20

and that's what we desire as Christians to

38:22

be as close as possible to Jesus and

38:25

and this is why we take, you know, it's we, of course,

38:30

take many aspects of of uniting ourselves to

38:33

Christ as important reading the scriptures. Right? Reading the

38:36

gospel, especially being familiar with with all the

38:40

things that Jesus did and desire to reveal

38:42

to us about who he is and all

38:44

the all the things we can learn from the sacred scriptures has a has a deeply

38:49

profound, way of of uniting to him.

38:53

Having the fruit of of of intimate union

38:56

with Christ Jesus. And indeed, the more we... The more we

38:59

know and understand the scriptures, we believe the the deeper, our our our

39:04

fruits can be in receiving holy community, the

39:06

better. We understand who it is that's Jesus

39:08

that we take into our soul. But we you know, as we believe that it is

39:12

Jesus and and holy comm, that's kind of the

39:18

kind of the highest, the highest... The the most pure form you

39:23

could say, of, of, intimate union with with Christ Jesus.

39:27

It's kind of like, not to get

39:33

you know, married spouses. Right? You know, like,

39:36

they... There's great union that occurs when they're

39:41

calling each other and texting each other and talking with each other and and and

39:45

hanging out together or whatever. But, of course, you know, we we we talk in a

39:49

in a in a a way about. Obviously, the the the highest, you know, union, literally,

39:54

of, of spouses is the is the con

39:56

union. Right? The the coming together

39:59

as as husband and wife, and and and that and the 2 becoming 1 flash. That's

40:03

no other union can compare to that intimate

40:06

unit. Right? We would literally call that an intimate union. So there... There's kind of a

40:11

a use of that idea in and there

40:14

are there are so many ways to come to yum with Christ jesus. A very deep

40:18

June Christ Jesus. But this this...

40:22

The 2 becoming 1 flash, we would say, you know, Jesus flesh is is coming into

40:27

our flesh and we we are we are... It's the most intimate, union, so we kinda

40:31

of say that's the the principal goal is

40:34

that that is that union just as the the highest

40:38

principal fruit of of, being spouses is is

40:41

coming together and being 1 flesh, literally,

40:44

that's kind of where the Catholic stands.

40:49

I think 2, like you saying, like, it's such an intimate union. I think 1, it's

40:53

such a beautiful gift

40:56

that god allows us to not only receive,

40:59

but also to participate that there is such an active element in

41:03

our faith that we are called to, because he could've have very easily just had

41:07

it something that we sort of passively, like, just our receiving. And instead, we're called to

41:12

actively participate in this relationship. So I think that's... So what's,

41:17

like, really beautiful about the sac. But also just that he took

41:22

the passover meal where they were literally consuming

41:25

the lamb that was slain to, you know,

41:29

have the the angel of death passover over

41:31

them. And then he saying, no. I am,

41:34

like, the greatest fulfillment of this lamb take

41:36

eat me. Like, what an intimate act too. Like, as

41:41

humans eating is so important to us. We

41:44

come together and, like, culturally, it's so important.

41:48

Relational it's so important and for him to take this extremely intimate

41:53

act and to say, you know, not only

41:55

is this a remembrance, but it's also me it's me, like, take eat me. Like, that's

41:59

just so significant. And so crazy that he would he would

42:04

give that to us. I know. Yeah. We... We we

42:10

the cat what if like comes from

42:13

some other person, but it it talks about

42:16

the that analogy of the of of the of

42:20

the... You know, it's no surprise that it's

42:23

it's in this meal, you know... And and

42:25

1 of the fruits we say we cat says what material food produces in our

42:30

bodily life, holy wonderfully achieved in our spiritual

42:34

life. And as spiritual people. It's it's it's

42:37

it's no surprise that jesus, you know, wants to try to use

42:42

something that that we understand. We understand the

42:44

way food, you know, nurses our body, but

42:47

also as as spiritual beings that that aren't just, you know,

42:51

animals, you know, walking around and kinda just...

42:53

But we we have AAA spiritual hunger as well. And so,

42:57

using that that way. Like you said, like,

43:00

you know, he probably could have instituted some

43:03

other way to fulfill our spiritual hunger on

43:06

this level whatever, but it's a it's a,

43:09

you know, he didn't... It's it's easy for us to to understand what he's trying to

43:13

do and and to to to feed up with his, word literally, you know,

43:20

Yeah. Something that came up that I wanted to

43:24

address specifically was about receiving forgiveness of sins

43:28

in the. Sure So that's

43:33

like a comment... Something that came up that I didn't realize was a disagreement or a

43:37

kind of disagreement. We had the Lutheran pastor

43:39

on who was saying, you know, Jesus says

43:41

that the primary benefit of receiving Eu is forgiveness

43:45

of sins and Catholics go against that because we have, you know,

43:50

confession for forgiveness of sins, is necessary to go to confession

43:55

for forgiveness of mortal sins before receiving you.

44:00

And, yet, kind of, like, are explaining our

44:02

view of that. And I know we do believe that you

44:06

receive forgiveness of sins, of v sense. In the Eu, but...

44:11

Yeah. Yeah. The... So

44:16

this was It was 1 of the

44:22

1 of the... I guess it was Luther probably that that

44:25

that talked about that I think 1 of

44:28

it's right where this is the the principal

44:30

fruit is is the forgiveness of sins,

44:34

and then the council trends in response to

44:36

that and as that thing, the principal fruit

44:41

is not the principal, fruit of receiving holy to me. So, you

44:48

know, like, and so the catholic position we just talked about is. The principal fruit is

44:51

is a union with Christ. And And and then from that, we extrapolate, well

44:58

or what is what is union with Christ

45:00

entail, and and we would say, we would say,

45:05

all these other things, even even Luther what they will. Well, what is what is the,

45:09

you know, what is this prince fruit of forgiveness of sins and entail, and then he

45:13

would say, well, well, it means, you know, you you with Christ and and and being

45:17

full of as well and and all these things. So it's just kind of a

45:21

a different ordering, but we basically... It's it's just a

45:25

thing of we more say, forgiveness of Sins is is is an effect

45:30

of the intimate union with Christ. Price where Christ

45:34

is present. He he he takes away sins.

45:39

But the... I think also, you know, with the Catholic

45:44

position because we have the Sacramento to confession

45:46

where we believe that's that's the place

45:49

that's... And that's a whole other topic, obviously,

45:55

but, we say that's that's the place

45:59

where where sirius sins are

46:02

are forgiven We could say, well why?

46:07

If the Eu can, you know, forgive small things or whatever,

46:11

You know, what is what is our rationale

46:13

for you know, saying that, you you know, Jesus

46:16

can't forgive large with the Eu or...

46:20

And really, it's Nick this actually even goes back to,

46:25

1 of our first questions which just like,

46:28

what why do I believe the Catholic view is right in Trans association

46:33

and the different teachings that we have on or whatever. And

46:37

the the the fathers of the church,

46:42

talk a lot about the Eu, and and

46:44

we have Catholics take them very seriously, not just because

46:49

we think what they wrote is in line with us or that that there was

46:54

cool what they wrote whatever, but just just their their early presence,

47:00

their closeness to the apostles and

47:03

just kind of their closest to the practices of the early church. We take very seriously

47:08

what they say. And you know,

47:12

the you know, the the first recorded, you know,

47:17

saint ig niches of Antioch is is

47:20

is he wrote his letters of the romans around

47:24

ad 01:10. You know, So he's he's quite

47:26

close to being, you know, you know, pop... An a apostle of an apostle, and,

47:31

he he, you know, says there, I have

47:34

no taste for corrupt food, nor for the

47:36

pleasures of this life. I desire bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ.

47:40

Who is the seed of David. And for I... And for drink, I desire his blood,

47:44

which is love inc. So

47:47

you know, we get a lot of our views of of trans pronunciation not just from

47:53

the scriptures that we believe point towards chances

47:55

of pronunciation just from the early practice of

47:58

the church, church father after church father just is recorded

48:02

saying, what we receive in Eu is is

48:06

substantially Jesus body and blood. That's that's what

48:09

we received. And so just on that point,

48:11

the Let's see who is it? I think it's

48:17

ci... Yeah. Sip... Saint sip of cart. So

48:20

he... He's a little later. He's, like, writing

48:22

in the year, like, 02:51. And

48:26

he quotes s saint. Paul saying, Paul threatens

48:28

moreover, moreover over the stubborn and forward and denounce

48:32

them saying, who whoever eats the bread or

48:34

drinks the cup of the lord un is

48:36

guilty of the body and blood of the lord. And he says all these warnings

48:40

being scorn and the despise last Christian will often take immune before their

48:46

ex needed before confession has been made of

48:48

their crime before their conscience has been purged

48:51

by sacrifice, and by the hand of the priest

48:54

before the offense of an angry and threatening lord has been appease. And so violence is

48:58

done to his body and blood and they sit against their lord more with their hand

49:02

and mouth than when they denied. The Lord. So

49:06

there's lots of writings just about,

49:09

based on Paul just saying, there's an understanding in the early church that

49:14

we don't we don't we don't approach the

49:17

Lord. You know, we don't we're not supposed to

49:20

drink un, you know, Paul said, somehow, you know, he said very clear that

49:25

who whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the lord un is guilty of

49:29

the body and blood. And so he's saying there is a way to approach

49:33

the Lord un, and and that kinda gets into, you know,

49:38

closed mean versus open commune and things like

49:40

that, but the basically, the the category view

49:43

is how is it possible for someone to not

49:45

be worthy of eating the body and blood

49:48

of jesus? And drinking the body blow christ, and we would say, well, well, it's a...

49:51

If they have serious sin on them. They've

49:53

done something to offend God that that that

49:55

they need to reconcile within themselves before they

49:59

are are are prepared to receive him to

50:01

have that intimate union. It's going back to

50:04

that that, that analogy of the husband and wife. It's

50:08

kinda like, you know, if if there's a grave

50:12

between the 2, you know, there's nothing stopping them from coming

50:17

together, but the... You know, the their union does not

50:21

it doesn't take care of that. Their intimate union, you know, It's something that seriously needs

50:26

to be reconciled, and and the reconciling of

50:29

that is what is what returns them to

50:32

that ability to participate in that great union

50:34

in in the way that it's supposed to be done lovingly between 2 spouses that have

50:39

become 1 flush. So it's just kind of

50:41

a an understanding that that we feel is is

50:45

pretty well reported and and and has progressed very very,

50:52

regularly throughout the church is just that

50:54

there's this misunderstanding that that we're not all

50:57

always worthy of of or already to receive jesus

51:02

into her soul. So I mean, whole, like, mortal thin v film whatever and we call

51:06

Big or loft whatever, But, you, we we

51:08

call those V just things that okay. Like,

51:12

I haven't been perfect. I'm a simple, you know, human

51:15

being. That that needs the love and forgiveness of

51:20

Jesus christ in my life. And

51:22

by Jesus in and and that's why Jesus

51:24

came, and Jesus loves to

51:27

to, you know, lift us up and forgive

51:29

those sins very readily. You know, we we

51:31

believe that there are many ways, not just not just receiving the body and Blow Jesus

51:35

Christ, but but our prayer and and and

51:38

praying and asking asking for forgiveness of our

51:40

small faults doing the sign across. Various different

51:43

things are ways that Jesus is is is thrilled

51:46

to to make up for those little shortcomings that we

51:49

have as we try to live our lives

51:51

as good pediatricians. But as Catholics, we believe,

51:54

there there are certain things that we can do that are that are

51:58

bigger than Just is like, oh, whoops like

52:01

Sorry, Jesus. Like, you know, and can I get back in your good races? There's there's

52:05

need for, for, something greater than that, which is why we

52:08

have the document their compassion in the first

52:11

place for when we have those those... You know, I can I can I can

52:16

be mean to someone and, you know, in that, I haven't, you

52:20

know, the there's? I haven't clearly, like, you

52:23

know, denounced my Christian vocation. Yeah. I haven't

52:26

lived up to to being you know, to following after Christ super closely

52:30

and and being another Christ in the world whatever. But it's not like I've I've broken

52:34

charity to the point of where, like, I'm clearly... Where it's... If I've killed someone. Like,

52:39

okay. Like, that's a that is a an offense against God that that any Christian in

52:43

the right mind who's trying to follow Jesus

52:47

should not commit. And so I... I've done

52:49

something to to sever that relationship in a

52:52

way that that that needs to be healed before Jesus comes in to me, and I

52:56

have that union with him and he he He works his love in me. You know

52:59

It's like, he wants... He wants his love and meat to thrive, and

53:04

he doesn't coming into a soul that has

53:06

serious sin on it. It it it it's

53:09

it hard them to thrive. Not not just because he can't work that miracle. If jesus

53:12

just wanted to be able to work at

53:15

miracle. If he worked at miracle, But also he wants us to be...

53:18

We have a cooperation in that thriving. And

53:21

it's not just magic that he comes in and all of a sudden, we

53:24

you know, oh, okay. Good. No. We believe

53:27

that. That we've gotta have a certain repentance

53:29

and and sorrow for our things and and

53:31

we do pen and we we we make up for that, And we we apologize to

53:34

people. And then Jesus says, okay. Now you're

53:37

ready to to let my love thrive in you and and and,

53:41

you know, be my instrument in the world. So anyways, not a long answer to

53:45

question. Yeah. I think a difference that we see between

53:50

other, like the protestant church in the Catholic

53:52

church. We see in confession and in our view

53:56

of the Eu is that role of the

53:58

priest. I think that's very unique. I think

54:01

it is also an orthodox, but it's, you know, very unique in catholicism.

54:05

And why is it important for a priest

54:07

specifically to cons concentrate the body and blood of

54:11

Jesus? Like, why is that something that only the priest can do?

54:15

The... Yeah. All of Orthodox has that,

54:20

and, and and I was just told recently,

54:25

is it, tell me if this is true? Or maybe

54:29

it's different in different denomination or... But but at least III heard

54:32

that in and lutheran, the the the priest

54:35

is... If it's not necessary for the priest to be there. Is that right?

54:39

Megan? For like for protestant.

54:41

Yeah. Those are specifically. Lutheran they're specifically, I

54:44

don't know... So they they would say they would say, that is how it ought to

54:48

be done. But then it's not, like, that is more of a, like, a church ordinance,

54:53

Okay. Not necessarily, like, in order for the sacramento to take place. So... Okay. So then

54:57

so typically the pastor will lead it, but it's not...

55:00

Okay. Yeah. I mean, so

55:05

there's there's lots of probably long answers having to do with old testament

55:10

theology and and the priests of the old testament and

55:14

who are who are set aside to to offer the sacrifices to the lord

55:19

as being the only people that are allowed to do that. And so there's a there's

55:22

a there's a history in in our in

55:24

our studio judeo Christian history of of of having

55:28

priests that are... That are put in charge

55:31

not because of their own worthiness, but, you know, in in the old testament, it was,

55:34

you know, it was just a certain family. The levi levi's that were that were just

55:38

the the the the family that was chosen by God to be the ones, the the

55:41

ones that that did this duty that needed to be done,

55:45

not because they were fancy anyone else, but because it you someone

55:49

needed to do it and and we want someone to to be really devoted to that

55:54

and and and

55:57

just have it as their duty and and be the ones that know how things work

56:01

and and keep it from confusion and and

56:03

just be the ones that that Gods appointed to to take care of that. On behalf

56:06

of all the people. And then, you know, you can follow that through and,

56:13

certainly, Jesus, we believe

56:17

asked the apostle to do this and and sort of instituted a priest to be the

56:21

ones, you know, he he he doesn't say

56:24

to to, you know, on the sermon on the mount

56:27

or teaching to the to the multitude take this all of you in need of

56:30

this for this is this is my body. He he says it last supper with his

56:35

with his possible. He the they're the ones that are given that that divine command. And

56:39

so there's just something connected to. Okay Jesus.

56:42

Jesus seems to wanna be continuing this tradition

56:44

of changing the tradition in the sense of

56:47

you know, the old levi priest hood. It's finished, you know Jesus

56:52

Christ, the high priest has instituted AAA new pre... You know, just like

56:57

we talked about the the passover. You know, he's he's he's... They've had the lamb, but

57:01

but he's he's ins something new. And so he's ins

57:05

he's not saying there is no need for any sort of appreciated whatever everybody saying I

57:08

am the new high priest that that that all these priests in the

57:12

past fore s, and and I instituted a

57:14

new priest hood. And so

57:18

there's those aspects of it. I think just...

57:21

Not getting bogged down by any of those. I think I think, you

57:25

know, those are good conversations for biblical scholars

57:28

and there's been millions of books written on

57:30

all kinds of add different aspects of of the priest and the old testament roots and,

57:34

you know, the Kathy priest versus everybody else. But but also, I think it's

57:39

just the Catholic encyclopedia

57:42

of 19 13 or something. There's an older version,

57:46

that that I have a copy that I like to read from time to time. And

57:50

it just points out, just kind practical notion of,

57:55

you, I I think 1 of our themes today is it's just been kind of like

57:59

things are just we're trying to make common

58:02

sense extrapolation from our belief, that Jesus is is

58:06

truly present body blood zone affinity in the. And

58:09

so, a lot of these things are are

58:11

that not necessarily because we're just trying to be rigid. No. Jesus said only these guys

58:15

get to do it, so so nobody else. But it's more just in line with... Okay,

58:19

We believe as Catholic that Jesus said the these certain things about about the Eu Christ,

58:24

and we we desire to

58:27

to safeguard that. We desire to safeguard that

58:30

into to keep what's precious to us

58:33

in in in safe hands. And so

58:36

you know, if it was a if it was possible,

58:41

that that the priest wasn't required for it, but

58:44

that it, but that that somehow the church was able to brook claim.

58:49

Anybody can do it, you know, get a copy of the of the math and just

58:52

read through the prayers of the math. You know, every person

58:55

you know, we... As establish agree say everybody

58:57

is baptized priest profit and king. So everybody

59:00

has a priest to every every person

59:03

is is baptized as pre king. So there's

59:06

this ministerial priest preset that we call it that

59:09

that has been set aside as by the church saying, We we want your

59:13

your work, your your duty to to do this. That

59:16

that... That's your job that we assigned to you

59:19

to safeguard it. And so, you know, we would kind say,

59:22

you know, as as Catholics, we're always we're always cognizant that there's there's there's abuses

59:29

against the Eu Chris. People steal the Eu Chris, people people

59:33

will come in into Catholic church do all kinda of weird stuff and

59:37

it's just this... The church would have no ability to safeguard

59:42

any of, what we believe about the Eu.

59:44

If any person could just take the book

59:47

and say this is my body, and this is my blood. And now we have, you

59:51

know, it it would be it would be

59:54

completely out of our peer... Purview view to to

59:57

safeguard what we believe is is a great treasure

59:59

of the church. And so I think also, it's just it's just a practical thing of

1:00:04

of it's a good way. Just like the logistical priests. They they had all these duties

1:00:08

and they were trained in it, and they would hand it down to their first son,

1:00:11

and and it was a way you know, is that that story in the

1:00:16

old testament of of you know, the

1:00:20

the levi levi's carrying the arc of the covenant and and and a random guy who's

1:00:24

not a levi. Goes he sees it's falling

1:00:26

and goes up and he's struck down dead. And to say, well, that's, you know, that's

1:00:29

just crazy, but these levi levi's are the ones that that

1:00:33

have been in charge to to make sure

1:00:35

that things are done according to, especially in the old testament that had lots of prescriptions

1:00:40

from from god to make sure things were done in a proper way and had right

1:00:43

worship. And so it's... Even for them, it

1:00:46

was it was just a practical thing of how do we how do we make sure

1:00:49

we have right worship that that the the

1:00:51

norms of God are follow that the things that we've we've we've discern as a church

1:00:55

to the guidance of the holy spirit or the right thing to do. How do we

1:00:58

just make sure that that we can follow those that we

1:01:03

continue to have this presence of Jesus among us in a in a beautiful way. And

1:01:07

so I always just go back to a practical thing of...

1:01:11

It's just it's a

1:01:14

the way the church can can keep what she believes in in

1:01:18

good hands. And and I've got, you know, not to say that It always isn't in

1:01:22

good hands because not all priests are

1:01:25

you know, not all priests have have word

1:01:27

carried out there priest stood, and so it's not a not a full proof plan even

1:01:31

with that even as or gaining preset that

1:01:33

is that is called by god to to

1:01:35

make promises to to be faithful to these

1:01:38

things. There's still problems even with that. And so

1:01:41

it... It's not perfect, but it's at least

1:01:44

a way that the church tries to keep

1:01:46

things on a in a good place so

1:01:48

speak. Mh

1:01:53

I'm curious too. So I think another difference,

1:01:57

that it was funny. It was something I never thought about until I interacted more with

1:02:01

Catholics. Was that you don't always receive in

1:02:03

both kinds. So, like, I had never been to a

1:02:07

church that wouldn't you wouldn't receive both,

1:02:10

like, the wine and the bread. Even if,

1:02:13

like, super low church where they're giving you

1:02:15

the little cups of grape juice. Like you

1:02:17

still always have both. Yeah. That's very important

1:02:21

for protestants. But for the for the Catholic perspective,

1:02:26

is it necessary to, like, receive both the body and

1:02:29

the blood, like, in in both kinds? And

1:02:33

why would you say it's sufficient to only consume, like, 1 element?

1:02:38

Yeah. The that's a great question. I think it's a

1:02:42

don't know if you guys ordered these questions to to perfectly flow into

1:02:46

1 another, but but it's a good older

1:02:48

a good job. I like, the thank you. Would've have been hard to talk

1:02:54

about this this question have we started with it. Some. But the

1:02:58

the... Again, it it it's another thing that, of

1:03:01

course, we we we go back to

1:03:07

trans. So so

1:03:12

where to start? Okay. So the the...

1:03:17

We would say, actually, in, you, in early church that with the common practice.

1:03:21

And and the

1:03:26

I'm gonna read AAA quote from Paul here

1:03:28

in a second, but, I believe the the

1:03:31

word for the people that are against... So it this came up in

1:03:35

the church as a, you know, I think it was called a a controversy or whatever,

1:03:39

but, it was called to

1:03:43

ut. That's the that's the belief that that

1:03:45

1 must receive the body and blood of

1:03:48

Jesus in order to to fulfill the his command

1:03:52

where he says, take this all of you need it, but

1:03:57

this is my body, which is give him a few. Take this all of you in

1:03:59

drink. This is the blood and the new covenant. So so,

1:04:03

you know, they would say, well, well, Jesus

1:04:05

said this and you guys, usually take him at his words seemingly, that's

1:04:10

1 of the things you guys kinda fall back on and so, you know, he he

1:04:14

clearly said, take both of these.

1:04:19

And the... So there there's lots of different angle to

1:04:24

to get at this person we would say in the early church that that's that's likely

1:04:28

what they did. They they they would always

1:04:30

receive under both species. And I wanna just because we were talking

1:04:35

about the the practical aspects of the priest

1:04:37

preset. 1 of these things is just a is

1:04:39

a... It's just a practical aspect,

1:04:42

in the sense of, you know, there's 2 things that

1:04:49

2 practical aspects that we could talk about

1:04:51

as far as as far as receiving under

1:04:55

under both species. So we would say, we would say reverence

1:05:01

due to the sac and facilitating an encouraging

1:05:05

frequent and fe reception. So so the the church,

1:05:10

you know, some people go to daily mass, you, the church always says,

1:05:14

it's a great thing to receive holy comm

1:05:16

and and and do it often, do it regularly

1:05:20

because it's it's it has its as its fruit, the the

1:05:24

the union with Christ, and that's what we want for everybody to assume with Christ And

1:05:28

so it's a good thing to desire to

1:05:30

do that off and to to receive Jesus

1:05:32

into our hearts. And so

1:05:36

there was, especially maybe nowadays, maybe we're advanced enough to to

1:05:40

make this happen, but, certainly, it got to a point where this

1:05:45

is This is hard. Like, like, if we're gonna

1:05:48

get everybody, the body and blood Jesus,

1:05:52

under the appearance of Brent wine, like, you know, when we have 2000 people gathered,

1:06:00

how do we do this, like, regularly? How do we do this regularly in places

1:06:05

that that don't have access to much wine or

1:06:09

you know, don't have many ministers of all...

1:06:11

There... There's all these different things of just trying to to

1:06:16

encourage people to receive frequently also with the

1:06:19

fact that it's not always practical to to

1:06:22

have everybody drink from the cup. The other is is

1:06:26

safeguard the reverence due to this most holy

1:06:29

sac, which is is again, another just practical thing,

1:06:34

and I'll get to why this is even, you know, permitted in the first place.

1:06:39

But the other practical thing is just that

1:06:43

it is just due to their very nature,

1:06:46

1 being a solid and 1 being a liquid, distributing holy comm

1:06:52

under the 4 bread, the body of Christ

1:06:54

is a very easy thing to do without

1:06:57

any sort of problem of of

1:07:00

lack of reverence. It can be carried very easily. It can

1:07:04

be received very easily. Whereas in,

1:07:07

you know, I think like, you know, Catholics,

1:07:11

we have gatherings of millions of people at

1:07:13

masses, you know, large masses where,

1:07:16

maybe an arch d somewhere is doing a

1:07:18

large mass or a certain cause or the

1:07:20

pope visit somewhere or whatever we have these large

1:07:23

massive. Mh. And we would just say from

1:07:26

a practice point of view, sending...

1:07:29

It's it's it's it's it's difficult just to

1:07:32

to have, you know, make the safeguard,

1:07:36

the blessed ackerman sending out, you know,

1:07:39

you know, 200. You know, however, many ministers

1:07:42

of holy comm holding, you know, Sa, bull bowls of the the

1:07:47

value of priced to go out and to

1:07:49

to safeguard that they usually go out with an usher that's that's there to make sure

1:07:53

nothing happens or whatever, and it's fairly easy

1:07:55

to. But but sending 200 cha out into

1:07:59

fields is some the church is kinda like

1:08:01

this is... You know, I I spill my

1:08:04

glass of water, you know, going from the sink to the table often. And so it's

1:08:08

just a... It's just a thing of Okay. This is, like,

1:08:11

this is not easy to do. It's not easy to have 200 houses. It's not easy

1:08:15

to have that much wine. It's not easy... And so

1:08:17

it's not easy to you know, there have been problems whether, you

1:08:22

know, once when you say the value of price and someone receive it, they're given 1

1:08:26

host body of christ. When you say the blood of price, they

1:08:30

take the cha, and they can abuse it. They can down the

1:08:34

whole thing. They can run away with it. And

1:08:37

so it's it it's... There's just practical aspects

1:08:40

with the church through the years discern... Okay. How do we

1:08:45

how do we keep people receiving comm and

1:08:47

and keep there from being problem. And so it really goes back to,

1:08:53

you know, we trans transplantation, we we believe that it's it's

1:08:57

fully Jesus present and you know, we believe

1:09:00

in 1 of the the the terms is the union, you know,

1:09:04

Jesus, his body and at d, you know, they're

1:09:07

they're inseparable. Jesus is not sep. There's nothing

1:09:10

no aspect of him that it's sep. It's not like, Jesus

1:09:14

walked to the earth, and he had a line down his his, you know, body and,

1:09:17

you know, this part was divine. And this part was human or whatever, and he, you

1:09:21

know, experienced half his things as human and

1:09:23

half his divine other the church said very

1:09:26

clearly, no. Jesus is is... Yeah. This un divided

1:09:29

unity of of body and blood. I... Excuse me.

1:09:34

Body was on the mine. Human and and and divine. And so, there's

1:09:39

this this unity of Jesus know, just like we talk about

1:09:43

the unity in the trinity. There's this this

1:09:45

un undervalued unity. It's an aspect of our

1:09:47

face of even even, you know,

1:09:51

when when when Jesus as human and divine when he walked the earth,

1:09:58

it wasn't like, the holy Trinity

1:10:00

wasn't participating in in in something there. Right? If

1:10:03

he has the d as the fullest, the... There's no there's no D can't just

1:10:08

be locked off and sent down to Earth and that, you know, that that would be

1:10:12

that would be a heresy. So so we would say they're there's this there's un divided

1:10:15

unity in God. And and and in Jesus between

1:10:19

his d Humanity. And so we would just

1:10:21

say, like, to say that

1:10:24

that I've got I got

1:10:27

half a jesus over here and half of jesus over here is is... We would say

1:10:31

that that's a problem because, we believe that that wherever

1:10:35

either of those species is. 1 is receiving

1:10:38

Jesus and 1 cannot receive Jesus. You can't

1:10:41

receive part of him and then be like, oh, man. I only got of them I

1:10:44

gotta get the other half of them whatever, there... There's this just kind of this this

1:10:48

common sense logic that we try to make that that

1:10:51

if 1 1 receives 1

1:10:53

1 receipt 1 is receiving all the graces of Jesus Christ and and and and and

1:10:57

attaining that union with him. And then

1:11:01

We know there's various, like... Well, let's let's go back to the last

1:11:05

supper. You know, he says, he said,

1:11:11

to 12 people. Right? You didn't say this to...

1:11:15

He didn't say this everybody he said, you know, take this all of you need of

1:11:17

it for this my body, which be given up to you. Takes us all of you

1:11:20

and drink from it. You he says this to the 12.

1:11:23

And then he says, do this in comme of me.

1:11:28

The... I think maybe a more pause view would

1:11:31

be he's saying, do this as in

1:11:34

receive the body and receive the blood. And we would actually say,

1:11:39

you know, we we we use words like

1:11:41

like, The priest is offering the sacrifice of

1:11:44

the mass and then cons concentrating the body

1:11:46

and the blood. And so we would actually say, jesus Jesus is not saying

1:11:50

do this as in receive my body and

1:11:52

blood and tell everybody to do exactly the

1:11:54

same, but more do this as in celebrate math,

1:11:59

and memories do this, as in as in take take bread and

1:12:05

take wine do what I have just done, not just

1:12:09

not just eat and drink the body and blood,

1:12:13

but but do all of this. Do this

1:12:16

what I've just done with you. And so and so we say, well, well,

1:12:19

jesus wasn't necessarily saying, we've... He wasn't commanding

1:12:23

us to do this and comme contamination of

1:12:25

him as him drink his by drink his blood, but he commanded that we that we

1:12:29

continue this this passover meal this this

1:12:33

sacrifice this this this,

1:12:36

this sacred meal coming together. And so that's 1 aspect

1:12:41

saint Paul, we talked about says, whoever, shall eat this body or drink the

1:12:47

cha of the lord on we're the least shall be guilty of the body and and

1:12:49

of the blood of the lord. And we've always looked to that. He says,

1:12:54

we ever shall eat the this bread or drink the cha

1:12:59

of the lord on where they shall be guilty. And so, you know, Paul saying, you

1:13:03

know, either 1, you know, it's not like

1:13:05

if you if you receive half of it. Okay. You're you're... You've only had half of

1:13:09

Jesus into you and so you're only guilty of half, you know, halfway of what, But

1:13:13

but don't but don't eat the other 1 because then you'll be fully guilty There's this

1:13:17

we we kinda have just this understanding of

1:13:19

of 1 can receive either and and and

1:13:24

receive foley the grace And likewise, if someone

1:13:26

is is not a part of the church

1:13:28

and does not profess the the faith hold on. I gotta a sneeze.

1:13:35

Never mind it went away. So there's just a,

1:13:41

there's just an aspect of of we we want to

1:13:46

receive him mortally. And and the church does

1:13:50

especially nowadays. It it was it was

1:13:54

through the development of the church, it it it pretty early

1:13:58

became okay. Certainly,

1:14:02

in order to celebrate the mass, the priest

1:14:04

needs to do as Jesus did as he

1:14:06

told us to take the body and take the blood, as

1:14:10

he told the apostles to do, the priest, you know, being a representative of of his

1:14:15

bishop who's representative the apostles. He does that. It would be extremely.

1:14:19

It's it's... We call it in invalid mass.

1:14:21

It would be a a grave to... For

1:14:24

for the priest to just

1:14:26

cons concentrate the bottom the bread into the

1:14:28

body of christ and say this is enough. You know, with Jesus, you know, we can

1:14:32

just... We can... We got all the deals we need here. And we can always receive

1:14:36

this. That would be a a grave offense. Which terms interested said, you've always... The priests

1:14:40

must always do it together because That's the

1:14:42

way Jesus did it, and he told us to do this in remembrance of him.

1:14:45

But then from that, once we once we

1:14:48

do that in memo... Remembrance of him, we

1:14:52

we have him imprisoned and and people can,

1:14:56

receive him under

1:14:59

both forms either forms. And so, you know, it progressed as as being especially in the

1:15:03

early church, you know, it wasn't like you had

1:15:06

wine everywhere. You didn't have maybe all your

1:15:09

wine ones really nasty and spoiled or or

1:15:12

so and so it it was it was a hard thing, and so the church very

1:15:15

quickly decided. No. This is this is... The priests

1:15:18

definitely need to have them both, but the

1:15:21

faithful, certainly are receiving all the graces of Jesus

1:15:24

Christ body blood soul immunity on, receiving just

1:15:27

under 1 species. And then, it wasn't until

1:15:30

that that continued for most of the history of the church and and then it wasn't

1:15:34

until the second vatican and comfortable where it said, let's... We feel like we're in a

1:15:38

place where, you know, we we we have

1:15:43

good comm line readily available that we that

1:15:45

we can get enough of, and and we have

1:15:48

good churches built and we have good capacities

1:15:51

to to be able to offer this, not required, but but but but when we

1:15:56

can, it's it's it's a good thing. And I think the,

1:15:59

the church says something along lines of,

1:16:03

we have a we have a greater participation, like, in the... The understanding of, of our

1:16:09

participation in the last upper. And so we

1:16:12

do have a belief that, like, this is

1:16:15

it's a good thing to receive both, but it's but it's by no means,

1:16:19

like, a required thing for for salvation for

1:16:22

the forgiveness of our sins for union with christ. It's

1:16:25

it's if we were free... If we receive him

1:16:28

in either species, it's it's it's gonna do

1:16:30

the job. So anyways, another

1:16:34

long answer, but that's kind of that's kind of our

1:16:38

our dual. Yeah. It's a it's a it's

1:16:40

a if it can be a bizarre thing.

1:16:44

I I've talked to talked to other problems. They're like, what? And is it's like, you

1:16:47

just received the body price and like... Mh.

1:16:50

Yep. That's That's a pretty normal thing.

1:16:55

And I a lot of clarity. I think

1:16:58

the. I think 1 of the things I read

1:17:03

was also just a in the practical sense of

1:17:10

you know, we don't... You know, like, during Covid.

1:17:14

Mh There the cha was was

1:17:18

it became very impractical

1:17:20

for everyone to drink out of a challenge together

1:17:24

because of, like, you know, peep people didn't wanna do that. And Yeah. Like, I'm not

1:17:28

doing that. And we don't want, you know, it's not like, you know, we're saying well,

1:17:33

then, you don't get to have, you know, intimacy which jesus us in the the you

1:17:36

know, in the Eu chris, it it's more...

1:17:39

No. That's that's that's that's totally appropriate. And

1:17:43

I think, like, depending on, you, like, that there are maybe

1:17:48

some prize and denomination that that bleed more

1:17:50

in the like, the symbol of the, Chris, and it's

1:17:54

and it's a it's a spiritual reality. It's not, you know, it's not trans pronunciation. And

1:17:58

so, you know, they may have, like, the

1:18:00

individual you know, grape juice or wine and individual

1:18:04

hosts, and so there a very sanitary way to do that. And and so it

1:18:09

it there was no need to like, have

1:18:11

these practical norms. But just given our... You

1:18:14

know, we have rules about, because we believe it's the body and blood

1:18:19

of Jesus, you know, the the... We call

1:18:21

the sacred vessel, the cha, the the patent,

1:18:24

the bore, like, these things, we always have

1:18:27

plated with gold as, like, just, like, Jesus,

1:18:30

you are you are king, and you are... You've made

1:18:34

yourself present to us, and a little plating of gold is is cost

1:18:39

a little bit of money, but it's it's it's kinda 1 of our best... It's the

1:18:42

best we can offer you to, as as you're dwelling as you come down. Right? You

1:18:47

you came down originally in a manger, and, didn't have a great go of it,

1:18:52

and, had nowhere to lay your head, but

1:18:54

but we as as your as your

1:18:56

as your faithful lovers, we we we have this goal available and

1:19:01

so... And so just like in the so it would be not permitted to people

1:19:05

you know, say, why don't we just get, you know, a bunch of dixie cups and

1:19:09

and, you know, put it, you know, just put them out on a table, and we

1:19:12

could we could do... You know, for dog practical, even comm, like, you know, we could we

1:19:17

could just put those up and ziploc back bags or whatever and and the church is

1:19:21

very hesitant to to just throw Jesus in a Dixie cup

1:19:26

because not that, you know, it it wouldn't

1:19:29

it could happen. It probably did happen. It probably it probably has happened plenty times where...

1:19:33

But the church just says,

1:19:37

This is in order to help us remember

1:19:39

that this is god if we're talking about

1:19:41

this this god that the universe can't contain

1:19:45

we just to keep our minds kind of

1:19:48

keeping that in perspective, we we try to

1:19:51

to to not put him in Dixie cups or or,

1:19:55

you know, Ziploc bags, but to to have

1:19:57

this this reverence thrown for him that that that... And, of

1:20:02

course, bill would say, like,

1:20:06

well, you know, but then you you receive

1:20:09

them into your digestive system. Right? So, like,

1:20:11

he can handle it whatever. And it's, like, absolutely. Jesus can handle it. Jesus can handle.

1:20:15

But there there's something different about, like, our digestive

1:20:19

systems, like, like, like, we are God's creation.

1:20:22

We're the image... You know, we are the image of god. There the there's something there's

1:20:26

something different about Dixie Cup and you know,

1:20:29

our digestive... You know, we could say, oh, the their stomach acid or whatever, but it's,

1:20:32

like no. Like, like, all of that, like, Jesus redeem all of that. Like, like, like,

1:20:36

we believe in the resurrection. Like, like, there's

1:20:38

something about these bodies, you know, ugly or

1:20:42

beautiful or whatever that that that Jesus desires

1:20:44

to to be a part of in and in in the darkest places of it, and

1:20:48

and and in the most beautiful places of

1:20:51

it. So that there's something different there and so we try to,

1:20:54

in the in the earthly things that we use to to hold our lord. We try

1:20:58

to try to give him, a certain level of reference. And so it's

1:21:02

not... It's not exactly easy to have you know, there'll be hundred individual, you know,

1:21:07

gold, you know, plated, you know, cups or

1:21:09

whatever that people can use that have kinda

1:21:12

become too difficult. So... You should get on that

1:21:15

father, Michael. You can buy for the church

1:21:17

to get on it. Yeah. I'll open your big page funny me. So

1:21:21

go find me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gate. Jackie,

1:21:24

can be my number 1 supporter. Okay. Perfect

1:21:27

for Queen Impossible. Yeah. So we'd had 1 more question that I

1:21:31

know we're short on time, but whatever you answer.

1:21:34

I think I wanted to hit on why do Catholics have a closed table for

1:21:39

comm. Like, why can't a or an An

1:21:42

or If you're not Catholic, why can you not

1:21:45

show up and receive comm even if you're

1:21:47

in even if you're a Christian? The

1:21:52

I remember I once had a threatened that

1:21:56

who wasn't Catholic, and I said something. This is way back in

1:22:00

the day, but I I said something about... I think it was a married situation. And

1:22:03

so they were a married... Or they were going to a marriage. There was a Catholic

1:22:06

marriage, and they asked a question about her or something. And

1:22:09

and You know, you said something about not being

1:22:14

able to receive comm or whatever. He wasn't practicing anything

1:22:17

anyways, but, you know, they didn't believe in in anything about price or anything like that.

1:22:21

But, you just said, like like, I'll do

1:22:24

whatever I want. Like, and it was just kinda like.

1:22:26

Alright. Like, that's that's kinda sometimes the attitude.

1:22:29

But, it's it's just a, you know, just

1:22:31

to go on what been talking about and. First of all, the,

1:22:34

we're not, like, completely closed. So like, for instance,

1:22:38

you know, the the Orthodox who Mh.

1:22:42

We believe, you know, they they they still have valid sac, and and they still, you

1:22:47

know, have a priest that that, you know, does the divine and whatnot, We we

1:22:52

we actually are are

1:22:55

closed to them in the sense that for for

1:22:58

them to go to a Catholic church and

1:23:01

receive our holy comm is is a grave

1:23:04

offense against their own religion. And so

1:23:07

we we say... We have the position towards

1:23:09

them saying, you you allowed to come, you know,

1:23:14

especially Tandem law says, like, if if if it if an Orthodox,

1:23:18

Christian is is in an area where... Where

1:23:21

he has no access to an Orthodox church. He very much so can can present himself

1:23:25

to the church and receive comm in our church. He has to do it at his

1:23:28

own accord and he has to be cognizant some of the facts that

1:23:32

he should maybe tread tread carefully because that's

1:23:35

that's that is not necessarily permitted for the

1:23:38

Orthodox church. We permit them to come because we believe,

1:23:41

hey, you're desi with Jesus, and and you you don't have

1:23:46

a place you can go, and and we

1:23:48

believe your sack are valid, You believe ours are valid. And so Yes. Come. But you

1:23:53

must come up your own, you know, accord

1:23:55

and goodwill and and be aware that

1:23:58

this could be problematic. You know, you maybe

1:24:00

shouldn't tell people. I don't know. Some of the

1:24:05

further for the rest of, you know, Christian, it's it's more just a,

1:24:11

that's that word comm. I mean, I think

1:24:13

people talk about this a lot. And I I think most christians don't necessarily have a

1:24:19

difficulty kind understanding. Like, it's... I think most protestants don't necessarily

1:24:27

want to... Maybe maybe some do, maybe feel

1:24:29

like, well, you know, based on my belief,

1:24:34

you know, if a president that doesn't believe in any sort of real presence, you know,

1:24:39

therefore, they believe they should go to... Be able to come to have church and they

1:24:42

don't believe that it is anything that we say is. It's just brandy wine and they

1:24:45

wanna participate in the bread and wine just like they would on way. But

1:24:49

there's just a... But but there's also plenty of process that that appreciate. Okay. Like, like,

1:24:53

they believe something else is going on. It's some weird Traffic stuff. And so, you know,

1:24:57

I don't mind not participating in the way they're doing things, I'll do it, you know,

1:25:00

the way we do things whatever. But it's just a, you know, we call it comm.

1:25:05

We you know, we use that word in comm,

1:25:09

like, you know, if we say, you you don't receive comm. If you're not in comm

1:25:14

with those, You know, we when we say, when a person comes up and we say

1:25:18

the body of Christ and then they say, I amen as in I believe, I believe

1:25:22

that this is the volume price. I believe

1:25:25

in the body of christ, the teachings of the value price, the the people around me

1:25:28

who that faith. I believe that I'm be

1:25:30

becoming united, in a, in a, serious way

1:25:33

with them. And so it's just kind of the position

1:25:36

that, we're saying, if you if if you don't wanna those

1:25:41

things, then then don't go up and say, amen. It's just kind of a,

1:25:45

like... I don't know. Think I think we take

1:25:48

a hard wrap. Spelled it's probably different, but it's,

1:25:52

like, I wouldn't... It if it was laid out to me,

1:25:56

if there was some similar thing and some other religion or something

1:25:59

that at the end of the day, it's just

1:26:02

if if you have your own conviction, it's

1:26:05

And so the so the church, I mean, plenty of people

1:26:10

go up and receive comm who, like, are,

1:26:12

you know, not in comm or whatever. It's not like, we're up there. Like, looking for

1:26:16

a baptism certificate, and, like, you know, like

1:26:18

saying, like, this is close to Union. You're

1:26:20

not on the list. Bring your license with you. Yeah. People are

1:26:24

free to do whatever but but we're just saying,

1:26:30

this this is this is a serious thing this intimacy with Christ, and and and we

1:26:34

believe a lot of things about Christ that that other people don't necessarily. And

1:26:39

and so we don't we don't recommend

1:26:43

coming up and and receiving him and saying, amen because you're saying amen everything would believe

1:26:48

and that it's just just kind of a it's kind of AA2...

1:26:53

It's too... It's a dual situation where where

1:26:57

it just doesn't Jesus Jesus

1:27:01

wants our amen to mean amen and and

1:27:04

and to to profess all that. And so

1:27:07

like, I wouldn't go... Again, maybe it's easier for me because, you

1:27:11

know, we have all these, you know, rules as Catholics whatever. But,

1:27:15

and I don't know how they receive things or whatever, but but I wouldn't I wouldn't

1:27:18

go receive in another denomination just because there's just a sense of

1:27:24

that's a I'm kind of I'm cheap what they believe

1:27:27

in the sense that I'm coming to say, give me some of that and and and

1:27:30

I don't believe anything you guys say, but but give me some of that. It's like,

1:27:32

well, well, No. It's... I respect what you guys believe

1:27:36

and and we have disagreements on that, and

1:27:39

and it is what it is. And and and

1:27:42

I think close union. I mean, at the end of the day,

1:27:45

and the most important point of it is that that

1:27:50

the church's of main view is that union

1:27:53

is open to all. We desire everyone to

1:27:56

to to understanding things the way we understand them and

1:27:59

to receive Jesus and have into his with Jesus and to receive his salvation to believe

1:28:04

that he's the son of God sent for forgiveness of sins and and

1:28:08

we are we are very open to that, But,

1:28:11

what we're not open to is we we

1:28:13

we don't given, you know, what Paul says and things. We don't we don't

1:28:17

the church fathers talk about this a lot. Obviously lots of people that were not, even,

1:28:20

you know, Christians. And so it came up a lot of of, you know, should we

1:28:25

should we just bring them in and they invite people and they... And they say no,

1:28:28

the the... There's a comm with with Jesus and 1

1:28:32

needs to be prepared in a way for

1:28:34

for that community. It just doesn't come in

1:28:36

and, you know, get rid of all our understanding and, you know, kinda tries us like,

1:28:40

robot. We we need to come to him of our own free will and prepare ourselves

1:28:44

for that union and and and

1:28:47

let him work his grace in our life. So

1:28:51

anyways, that's a kinda at least eat somewhat answer closed commune

1:28:57

or closet quasi closed community. Yeah.

1:29:01

I'm curious why the orthodox are allowed? What's that?

1:29:05

I'm curious why the Orthodox are allowed. Or why you would? I mean, I understand

1:29:09

why they would it, but... The

1:29:14

why why we let them? Or why they're Yes open to them. I

1:29:18

mean, so it's open to them. Even, like, like, other sac are

1:29:24

I think of the 6, maybe even concession.

1:29:27

There's there certain rules on,

1:29:30

like, danger of death things like that where, like, if a, you know, a protestant

1:29:35

is diagnosed the hospital and Kathy Preach is there and says,

1:29:37

hey, I want the an of the sick, which which is just not a separate the,

1:29:40

like, you know, protestants have anything like that. But if they ask for it and, you

1:29:44

know, good conscience or whatever, and it's something they

1:29:47

want. Like, we don't deny them of that, and

1:29:51

we pray with them and and give them that sac in danger of death.

1:29:55

I think it's just a it's a... It obviously, it has to do

1:30:00

with our separation, so, like just the history of

1:30:05

of, you know, separation of Kathy Church and

1:30:08

Oil jack church is different than than the

1:30:10

pros churches, I think

1:30:13

the Prize churches were were were

1:30:16

the the the this the separation between the

1:30:19

Ortho orthodox and the Catholics was much more

1:30:21

a, like, hierarchical hierarchical struggle and and and various different. There

1:30:27

were some, you know, the a few different

1:30:29

harris, you know, that they... With or view

1:30:32

that they disagreed on or whatever. And so But but it was there was nothing about

1:30:37

it was nothing about the Eu That that,

1:30:39

was being argued about or or that that

1:30:42

that led to that separation. With the protestant, that was a huge point

1:30:46

of contention was, like, we are breaking off

1:30:49

from you because we do not believe what

1:30:51

you believe. And so just kind of a

1:30:53

natural thing. We're like, okay, If you guys are... If you guys are clearly

1:30:58

saying that, like, what we're doing is is a bunch of nonsense, then Okay. We're we're

1:31:02

just kind of completing the sentence and saying, okay. Well then don't me. Don't... You you

1:31:06

guys have have have have changed your views

1:31:08

on the thing and and and and maybe shouldn't if you do wanna receive our community,

1:31:12

well, then we need... You, we should probably have to talk about, like, what we believe

1:31:15

about that and why you want to receive that and and and what what's going on

1:31:18

there. Whereas, you know, the we believe

1:31:21

the the Ortho orthodox,

1:31:25

you know, maintain from before their separation, they maintain

1:31:30

their their understanding of that, and they

1:31:33

maintain our understanding of that. And so we

1:31:35

say, okay. I mean, we are separated, but but the fact that

1:31:40

that they in a way can at least

1:31:43

come up and say, man in the sense of, like, I believe that Jesus is presence

1:31:46

here, body blood own immunity, and and

1:31:50

I'm not, you know, again, it's it's it's in case of necessity in the sense of

1:31:53

Charity always always Trumps any sort of, any sort of

1:31:58

like, division in that regard. So, like, you know, even though they would say the pope

1:32:01

isn't the pope, but we understand that a

1:32:03

certain capacity out of charity. They they believe

1:32:06

in desires that that intimacy with Jesus. And

1:32:08

so Charity Trump said in a sense of

1:32:10

you have a need for this, and although we disagree on some other

1:32:14

matters. We don't disagree on this, and you can

1:32:18

have good conscience to come your your church does not want you to.

1:32:21

But... And we are not allowed to go to them. Like, they would... If I showed

1:32:25

up there, our church tells us

1:32:28

like, if we're in the opposite the situation, ortho orthodox church is the only church for

1:32:32

a hundred miles or whatever. Our church say you can go there

1:32:36

we give you permission to go and receive comm there.

1:32:39

But, you might wanna be careful because they don't

1:32:41

want you there. So you might wanna, like, talk to someone and see if, like,

1:32:46

they will make an exception or something and

1:32:49

not just go up in the line and get stared at by the priest lake through

1:32:52

the heck you. So anyways.

1:32:57

Yeah. It's always been my understanding is that

1:32:59

we were... We believe the same thing about the, chris. So we have comm in that

1:33:03

way. So, like, they could receive because they

1:33:05

do believe in trans subs. And also that we think their sac are

1:33:09

valid. Like, there's still some connection with the

1:33:11

the bishop, like, the succession from

1:33:15

the apostles that we still believe is in the Orthodox church Is that correct? That's also

1:33:19

in the Catholic church? Yeah. Like, like,

1:33:22

like, their priests are still pre so, like,

1:33:25

in for instance if, I don't know what how it would happen

1:33:28

if 1 of us convert orthodox, but like, if if a

1:33:31

if an orthodox converts to catholicism,

1:33:35

I believe their their coordination

1:33:39

they're still priest. So, like, they... We we respect their we respect their coordination

1:33:45

and and respect them as... Whereas if you

1:33:48

come from a denomination where you have enough

1:33:50

of a different view on, like, what being

1:33:52

a priest or a pastor is, then the

1:33:54

church to say, well, the there's something lacking

1:33:57

here and there's... You know, if you have a desire to become a priest, then there

1:34:00

there needs to be some... There needs to be an orientation basically.

1:34:04

Mh. Because a lot of times there isn't... Maybe

1:34:07

there's always an coordination. I don't know, but it's very different. I don't know.

1:34:11

Yeah. We you have other questions, Megan?

1:34:17

No. I I think that was that was helpful. I think it was a good follow

1:34:20

up too, in our discussions.

1:34:23

I feel like, Jackie and I have grown a lot since

1:34:26

we first did our little podcast talking about this? What

1:34:30

4 years ago? It's been going. Is that is that right 4 years ago?

1:34:33

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And we did our own episode talking

1:34:38

about the you, chris, the 2 of us, and I feel like our understanding is they're very

1:34:44

different. When does it when did it start?

1:34:47

What was the? We started posting at the

1:34:49

end of 20 20. Okay. So it's almost been 4 years. Yeah. Okay. Like, the fall

1:34:53

of 20 20. Yeah. Gotcha you. Gotcha. Yeah.

1:34:58

So... Yeah. Yeah. I I know personally, I've

1:35:01

grown a lot just even understanding the catholic

1:35:03

view. I I think way the beginning, it

1:35:05

was so confusing to me. And so... Yeah.

1:35:09

Even this has been has been helpful too.

1:35:12

So thank you. Thank you for coming on. Absolutely. Thanks for inviting me. I would I

1:35:16

was I was nervous all week.

1:35:20

Okay. On. I was like, man. I'm just a I'm

1:35:23

just a lowly associate priest doesn't know whole

1:35:26

lot. So you guys need some important Very lot intimidating.

1:35:30

Me. If Jackie I about it. Yeah I

1:35:32

think you can. That's right. That's the... That's...

1:35:35

Again, it's it's good to have conversations.

1:35:38

But there's a reason they're not teaching in a seminar or anything like that, You know,

1:35:43

Well, say... Yeah. Well, you explained things a lot better

1:35:46

than I did. I think, like, there were

1:35:48

some things I felt like I butcher and answering the lutheran pastor. Like, asked me questions

1:35:53

I wasn't ready for. I was like, I don't know. So you I think you clarified

1:35:57

a lot of things that yeah, explain them

1:36:00

in a better way than I ever could.