0:41

Oh hi, hello there, this is

0:44

Let's talk about MIT's baby, and I

0:46

am your host, live here

0:49

with more of every correct

0:52

person's favorite ancient Greek playwright

0:55

Euripides.

0:57

Is it possible to love an ancient writer like too

1:00

much? If so, it's probably

1:02

me and this guy truly,

1:04

Like every time I think I've reached

1:06

peak Euripides, I read

1:08

another play and then he just like outdoes

1:11

himself just one more time. It'll

1:14

never stop until maybe I've read all of his plays. That's

1:16

the only time. So today we are

1:18

back with the second part of euripides

1:21

Ion. The Ion is particularly

1:23

interesting because, like I said last week,

1:26

all the characters of the play are found

1:28

in existing mythology before Euripides'

1:30

play was written, but the details surrounding

1:33

Apollo and this like missing identity,

1:35

seemed to be only found in this play.

1:38

That might mean he invented them, or it

1:40

just may be that a source is lost, but

1:43

a boy, is it fun to speculate? This

1:45

is also true? Remember of his Medea. The

1:48

most dramatic and famous plot point

1:50

of Euripides' play is the moment when

1:52

she kills her children, and this detail

1:54

does not survive in a source from before

1:57

the play, so Euripides, he

1:59

liked to play with existing mythological characters

2:02

and stories. He liked to make them bigger

2:04

and better, more dramatic and mysterious.

2:07

He liked to write realistic

2:09

women, not idealized women,

2:11

not some kind of ideal creature

2:14

in the eyes of the Athenian men, but

2:16

real, complex and convincing

2:19

women. Even

2:22

though this play is called the Ion, like it

2:24

is Creusa who is stealing the show over me. And

2:27

remember, this play features a traumatic

2:29

story of sexual assault, so do take

2:31

care. It makes it something to be cautious

2:33

of. But it's also such a rare

2:35

example of sexual assault by a god being

2:38

taken seriously by the ancient

2:40

author. It is

2:42

a real trauma that is being examined.

2:45

It is not just glossed over like a thing

2:47

that always happens. And so I think

2:49

it is just it's utterly invaluable,

2:51

and this translation by Cecilia Leshnig

2:54

has utterly it's it's

2:56

bursting with righteous

2:58

feminine rage, like both

3:00

Euripities and Cecilia have done some incredible

3:02

work here, and I'm honestly never getting over it. So

3:05

where did we leave off? Last week? We were

3:07

introduced to our places characters via

3:09

a god's monologue. Hermes

3:11

introduced us to the play and its setting,

3:14

telling the audience about Creusa, the

3:16

daughter of Erectheus, one of Athens's

3:18

most famous mythological kings.

3:21

Creusa was raped by Apollo near

3:23

the Acropolis of Athens, at a place

3:25

the Athenians call the Long Rocks.

3:28

She became pregnant, as is always

3:30

the case with gods and humans, and hid

3:33

the birth from her father, and when the

3:35

baby was born, she brought it to the same place

3:37

where she had been assaulted and left

3:39

the baby there to be exposed. Later,

3:42

she married a man named Suthus. He

3:45

wasn't an Athenian, which is a pretty

3:47

big deal, and Athenian citizenship

3:49

laws typically require the man to

3:51

be Athenian in order for any children

3:53

to qualify. Suthus and

3:55

Creusa were together for years, but have

3:58

remained childless, and eventually

4:00

went in search of guidance from the oracle

4:03

and a reminder because it comes up. Another

4:05

name for Apollo is Loxius, particularly

4:08

when referring to this like Delphic oracular

4:11

Apollo. And there

4:13

at the Temple to Apollo in Delphi,

4:15

Creusa meets a temple attendant

4:18

named Ion. What she and

4:20

Ion don't know, but the audience and

4:22

we do know is that he is her

4:24

son by Apollo, brought there by

4:26

the gods and raised at the temple. Creusa

4:29

shares a little bit of her story with Ion,

4:32

though she tells him that it happened to a friend

4:34

of hers. She's there in Delphi

4:36

to see if the oracle will share information

4:38

about her child, whether he lives

4:41

or died, and she encourages Ion

4:43

to also look for his mother. There

4:46

is so much kindness

4:49

and empathy between them, this shared

4:51

story of loss that is much

4:54

more shared than they realize.

5:11

This is episode two sixty

5:13

one. Keeping the Secrets

5:15

of Apollo Euripides is Ion,

5:18

Part two.

5:33

Creusa tells this temple attendant

5:36

what happened to her friend, that

5:38

she lay with Apollo and

5:41

in secret bore his child. The

5:43

attendant, who only Hermes

5:45

has by now called Ion and

5:48

not to his face, is incredulous.

5:50

He doesn't want to believe that Apollo would have

5:52

hurt a woman like that, that it must

5:55

have been a lie that she came up with in her shame.

5:58

Creusa insists it's the truth, and

6:00

Ion asks her what happened after then?

6:02

Like what happened to the baby. That's

6:05

what Creusa is at the oracle to ask.

6:08

Last she or rather her friend,

6:11

knew the baby had been exposed

6:13

in the very same place where the assault had

6:15

happened, but she'd returned to where

6:17

she'd left the baby and he was gone.

6:20

There wasn't a speck of blood left behind.

6:23

It was as though he disappeared, So

6:26

now she's seeking answers whether

6:29

he is even still alive. Like

6:32

I said last week, one of the biggest thrills

6:34

of a Greek play is not what secrets

6:36

will be revealed. The audience always

6:39

knows the truth right from the start, but instead

6:41

how they're going to be revealed to the characters,

6:44

and what will happen once the reveal

6:46

has taken place. We all

6:48

know Ion is Creus's son by

6:50

Apollo, but they don't, and so

6:52

we watch as they talk in circles,

6:55

talking about each other, without realizing

6:57

that is who they're speaking with. Ion

7:01

wants to find his mother, Creusa

7:03

wants to find her son. They just

7:05

don't realize they already have, which

7:08

is why the next question Ion asks

7:10

is how long has it been? How

7:12

old would the child be if he lived? Oh,

7:15

she says he'd be about your age.

7:18

And at this Ion is ready to find fault

7:20

in Apollo. He tells Creusa, quote

7:23

the god wrongs her to leave the mother

7:25

in torment ever

7:27

since, she says, the woman hasn't been

7:29

able to have children, to

7:31

which Ion says, quote, what if

7:33

Phoebus took him and raised him in secret?

7:37

What if Creusa's

7:40

reply quote taking for

7:42

himself the joy they should share

7:44

is wrong?

7:46

Oh?

7:46

How I mentioned lately how much I love euripidies,

7:49

Like, not only do we have this woman who

7:51

is basically a princess of Athens,

7:53

visiting the temple of Apollo alone and

7:56

in secret from her husband and having

7:58

to relive her trauma in doing so, but

8:01

she's there as the explicit master of

8:03

her enslaved attendance. Her husband

8:05

is off somewhere, hasn't been heard from yet,

8:08

and she shares not only the story

8:10

of her trauma with Ion this

8:12

attendant, but backs herself

8:14

at every turn. When

8:17

Ion wonders if the woman is lying, Creusa

8:20

insists. And when Ion even

8:22

proposes the idea that Apollo raised

8:24

this child, Creusa is ready to push

8:27

back on that idea too, to point out how

8:29

wrong it would be, and of course, you know

8:31

that's exactly what happened. Apollo

8:33

took that from her. She exposed

8:35

the child certainly, So that doesn't to suggest

8:37

that she doesn't bear some blame. But

8:40

I think all listeners of my show should understand the complexity

8:42

of assault and the reaction to it, let alone when

8:44

that assault results in a child. Anyway,

8:47

modern abortion is awesome, and the right to have one

8:49

should be protected at all costs. Oi

8:53

moi, the attendant, Ion

8:56

replies, her fortune is

8:58

in turn with my suffering. Creusa

9:02

tells him that she believes his own mother misses

9:04

him. They're just comforting

9:07

each other. They're sharing their star and their

9:09

traumas, their sadness and comforting

9:11

each other over it. And we as

9:14

the audience, know the truth that they are

9:16

mother and son, that their stories

9:18

resemble each others because they

9:21

are one and the same. But

9:23

well, this is the whole place, So it's going to be a while

9:25

before either of them realize the truth. Some drama's

9:27

gonna happen. Not to worry, Ion

9:30

isn't ready either. He is still too devoted to

9:32

Apollo to see too far beyond.

9:35

He asks Creusa why she thinks that

9:37

the God would tell her the truth about something

9:39

he so obviously tried to keep

9:41

hidden. He tells her that the

9:44

act the rape, shames Apollo

9:46

and so she shouldn't ask about it. This

9:49

is where they diverge. Creusa says quote.

9:52

Yet the woman who suffered this tragedy feels

9:54

it acutely because again,

9:57

this is one of the only narratives from ancient

9:59

Greece that features rape of a human woman by

10:01

a god and treats it as exactly

10:04

that, as an assault, a

10:06

trauma that left a lasting tragedy

10:08

on this woman who survived it. So

10:11

often I hear from other classicists that we shouldn't

10:14

read so many of these myths as assault

10:16

purely because you know, the ancient Greeks apparently

10:19

didn't conceptualize consent, or rather

10:21

just because our concept of it and rape

10:23

is generally different now, or

10:26

because they're gods, it can't be rape, Like I

10:29

call bullshit, because just because the myths don't

10:32

themselves don't feature the women's trauma

10:34

doesn't mean it wasn't broadly understood in that world,

10:37

like only that it didn't make it into

10:39

the myth thos, maybe

10:41

because it took someone like Euripides to examine

10:44

these instances, or or maybe because

10:46

too many other works are lost, but either

10:49

way, the ion is proof of so

10:51

much of the ancient psyche and how

10:54

that God's forsaken phrase lay

10:57

with can just be utter bullshit,

10:59

like even in the ancient world. Creusa

11:03

so desperately wants to ask the oracle

11:05

about her child, but Ion

11:08

knows Apollo. He tells her

11:10

that there is no one who will give her this

11:12

oracle, that if Apollo were made

11:14

to seem unjust, whoever uttered

11:16

such a thing would be punished. He

11:18

tells her to give it up, that no one can question

11:21

the oracle about the crimes of a god.

11:23

Mortals cannot force anything from a

11:25

god, and if they managed it, they would regret

11:28

it. Quote what they give us

11:30

willingly we live to enjoy.

11:35

Creusa isn't having this. She's not backing

11:37

down, and she's not going to let this temple attendant

11:39

tell her to stop her search. She

11:41

won't let Apollo wrong her

11:44

any further. Creusa's

11:58

denial after Ion tells her not

12:00

to question the gods, is utterly

12:03

badass and directed directly

12:06

to Apollo. She tells him

12:08

first and foremost quote

12:11

Phoebus, not just then and

12:13

there, but here and now you wrong

12:15

the woman who is not here, though

12:18

her words are through me, she

12:22

will maintain this separation she's created.

12:24

That she is speaking of a friend's experience

12:26

and not her own, but that doesn't mean she will treat

12:28

it any less seriously. She accuses

12:30

Apollo of not saving the son he fathered

12:33

even when he should have, and that even

12:35

now, though he is the prophetic god,

12:37

he refuses to answer the question of whether

12:39

the child lives. Fine,

12:42

She eventually agrees with ion quote,

12:44

I must leave off if I am prevented

12:47

by the God from learning what I need to

12:49

know. There, she

12:51

adds, there's my husband anyway,

12:53

Kazuthus is coming towards us. Keep what

12:55

I've told you secret from him so he won't learn

12:58

my secret search and the story of my

13:00

friend won't get back to him. Quote.

13:03

Women's issues are hard for men

13:05

to grasp, and the good women get

13:07

confused with the bad, so we

13:10

are all disparaged. We are

13:12

born to misfortune.

13:16

Euripides really like

13:19

just coming out here and speaking real truths

13:21

about the polite of ancient and let's be

13:23

honest, modern women. My

13:25

kingdom for a time machine, Like there's literally

13:28

no ancient person I would like to meet more than this man.

13:31

Xuthus greets Creusa and

13:33

praises the god. She asks him how

13:36

his own search for answers went. He

13:38

was at the cave of Trifonios, another

13:40

oracular sacred space, where

13:42

he was asking about their inability

13:44

to have children, something he will also

13:47

ask this oracle. That

13:50

oracle Xuthus says didn't want to step

13:52

on apollos oracles toes, but did

13:54

say that neither of us will return home

13:57

childless. Creusa's

13:59

happy with this or She appears to be at least

14:02

thanking leto the mother of Apollo and

14:04

noting, quote, whatever our

14:06

relationship with your son was in

14:08

the past, may its future fall

14:11

out better. Absolutely,

14:13

Suthus grees, having no real idea what she's

14:15

talking about. I'm ready to ask my question

14:18

of the god. So he prepares

14:20

to go inside the temple where the Pithias speaks

14:22

Apoulo's oracles to be interpreted

14:24

by the priests of the same god. But

14:27

before he goes, he asks Creusa to

14:29

go to the altars and pray to all

14:31

the gods that quote the

14:34

oracles we receive from Apollo's

14:36

household promise of children

14:39

with that suitas heads inside the temple,

14:42

Creusa agrees to go pray to the gods.

14:45

Quote. If Loxius is willing

14:47

now to atone for his earlier misdeeds,

14:50

he would still not ever be altogether

14:53

a friend to me. But whatever he

14:55

wants, he is a god I

14:57

will accept. Having

14:59

said that, she also leaves the stage.

15:02

Ion is left with the chorus and considers

15:05

everything he's just learned. It's clear

15:07

that for all he was kind and empathetic

15:10

to Creusa, he understood her

15:12

pain. He still is ready to

15:14

question her intentions. He wonders

15:17

about her, how she hated the god

15:19

and spoke in riddles, he notes, quote,

15:22

either she has deep affection for the woman

15:24

on whose behalf she is consulting the

15:26

oracle, or she is silent about

15:28

something that must be kept secret.

15:32

It's all about hinting to the audience

15:34

of what's to come, reminding them of

15:36

the truths they know, which the characters

15:39

do not, because the next lines have

15:41

i On questioning who Creusa even is

15:44

to him. She's not his family, he

15:46

notes. Yeah, he needs

15:48

to leave to poor water, he says, but before

15:50

he goes, he needs to speak to Apollo. And

15:54

here this

15:56

is a paragraph of ancient Greek text

15:58

that I never ever

16:01

thought I would read. In the seven

16:03

years I have been podcasting the stories of mythological

16:05

women, that I've been railing against

16:08

the gods for the sheer volume of rapes they commit

16:10

in the stories. In the seven years of specifically

16:12

calling out Zeus and Poseidon for their crimes.

16:15

I never thought a paragraph like this

16:18

existed or could. I'd

16:20

never imagined it as possible. Have

16:22

I built it up enough? Jesus? Fuck,

16:25

that's it's going to deliver. It's

16:27

probably longer than I should read aloud, but

16:29

I see no other option because the speech, this

16:31

and this fucking translation of the speech,

16:34

they just go. They go too hard. So

16:37

Ion wants to have these words with Apollo

16:39

right just indirectly, standing outside

16:41

of Apollo's temple, who he has dedicated his

16:44

entire life to, and speaking aloud

16:46

to the god. Quote,

16:49

what is wrong with him? Does he abandon

16:52

young virgins after raping them?

16:54

Is he apathetic to the deaths of

16:56

children born from these affairs?

16:59

Don't do it? You have power.

17:01

You should pursue virtue. Whenever

17:04

mortals do wrong, the gods punish

17:06

them. How can it be right that you,

17:08

who write the laws for mortals are

17:11

guilty of transgressing them. If

17:14

I know this won't happen. But for the sake

17:16

of argument, if you and

17:18

Poseidoned and Zeus, who rules

17:20

the sky, had to pay the penalty

17:23

to humans for rape, you would

17:25

empty your temples atoning for

17:28

your wrongs. You do wrong

17:30

seeking pleasure without forethought.

17:33

It is not right anymore to speak

17:35

ill of men. If we imitate what

17:37

the gods consider fine, But

17:39

for those who teach us these things,

17:41

it's another story. I

17:46

just okay, let's say one piece again.

17:48

You have power, you should pursue

17:51

virtue.

17:53

What a concept, What a concept

17:55

that those people with power should

17:58

use it for good? And

18:01

then there's another line that I have to say once

18:03

more because it just hits so fucking hard. It

18:05

also is just it's still like the other two

18:07

reel. If you swap out the word you

18:10

for, say, the Western

18:12

imperialist complex, how

18:15

can it be right that you, who

18:18

write the laws for mortals are

18:20

guilty of transgressing them.

18:53

The chorus of women sing for

18:55

Creusa. They sing prayers to Athena,

18:58

herself childless save for Athens.

19:01

They sing to her, and to Artemis,

19:03

sisters of Apollo. They pray to these

19:06

goddesses, singing of mothers

19:08

and motherhood, of childless women

19:10

whose support matters whether they've given

19:12

birth or not. They sing to goddesses

19:15

while noting their relation to the God

19:17

whose prophecy they seek, but they

19:19

don't sing or pray to him.

19:22

They pray to these goddesses that quote

19:25

the ancient line of Erectheus, with

19:28

clear oracles meet at last

19:30

with lasting fertility. They

19:33

sing of the happiness that children bring

19:35

their parents, how they shine a light

19:38

on their ancestors and pass down

19:40

the wealth to future generations. But

19:43

even then they pray that quote,

19:46

the caring for children come before

19:48

wealth and royal halls.

19:52

They sing of being blessed with children

19:54

and living modestly, how that is

19:57

more than enough. And

20:00

remember they're a chorus

20:02

of women. Then

20:04

the song turns. It turns to crews as

20:06

past and what she's been through. So they

20:09

sing to the daughters of Aglawis, who

20:11

danced in the grass before Athena's

20:13

temple, while Pan played his pipe

20:16

and quote where

20:18

a sorrowing virgin gave birth

20:20

to Phoebus's infant and exposed

20:22

it a bloody feast for birds

20:25

and beasts. The crime of

20:27

a violent rape.

20:30

It's horrifying this part of their song.

20:33

It's meant to tear at heart strings

20:35

and wrench at the audience. An audience

20:38

of men. Remember, written

20:40

by a man for an audience

20:43

of men. It's not fair

20:45

to say there were no women in the audience, but officially,

20:48

officially, there were no women

20:50

in the audience. You

20:52

cannot convince me that Euripides

20:55

wasn't one of the best men in the ancient

20:57

Greek canon, that he wasn't a man who cared

21:00

deeply, so deeply for the things

21:02

that women went through in his world. He's

21:05

writing of terrible things, but that he's

21:07

writing them at all and politically

21:09

is so rare and meaningful that the

21:11

horrors just fall away. What

21:13

were left with is proof that not only

21:15

did the ancient Greeks have the ability to conceptualize

21:18

the horrors of assault by men or gods

21:21

because duh, they did, but that at

21:23

least some of them recognized not

21:25

only that it was bad, but how even

21:27

the mythos would have affected the very

21:29

real women around them.

21:32

At least this man set out to share that empathy

21:35

with others, tried to emphasize to the

21:37

men of his city that women faced

21:39

unique threats divine

21:42

or mortal. That's

21:45

not to say that rape wasn't

21:48

illegal then it was, but it

21:50

was more about spoiling

21:53

your possession, not about

21:55

actual trauma. That's why this

21:57

means so much. The

22:00

chorus's final lines of this prayer

22:03

song are quote. Not

22:06

in my weaving, nor in other tales

22:08

have I heard that children born to

22:10

mortals from gods have a share

22:13

in happy life.

22:16

It's a beautiful and sad line

22:19

in itself, but I want to bring attention

22:21

to a couple of things in it. These

22:24

are meant to be women, right this chorus. They

22:26

would have been played by men. Everyone

22:29

in this play would have been a man. But listen

22:31

to what they're saying, like, they aren't just relaying

22:34

events of the play or providing commentary

22:37

here, they are representing women

22:39

broadly. The audience

22:42

isn't just told that they're women.

22:44

They are hearing women's

22:46

voices here. They say that, not

22:49

in their weaving or other tales

22:52

have they heard? That is

22:54

an acknowledgment of the real lives

22:56

of women, not mythological lives,

22:58

not men's ideas of women's lives.

23:00

But instead, it's a statement that real

23:02

women would have made, because real women

23:05

of Athens would learn each other's stories

23:07

through weaving and telling

23:09

tales. These are the voices

23:11

that I think about all the time, like the women

23:13

who were alone in their homes all day, with

23:16

only their friends, other women to

23:18

speak to and learn from, to share stories,

23:21

good or bad, warnings or

23:23

praises to each other, not

23:25

for the men to hear. This

23:28

is Euripides, not only acknowledging

23:30

that but appreciating its value.

23:48

Ion returns to the stage and speaks

23:50

with this chorus of women, first

23:52

noting how they keep their watch and

23:54

wait for Creusa. Then he

23:56

wonders about suit this and asks

23:59

if he's still inside the temple, asking

24:01

after the oracle's prophecy. He

24:03

is, they say, but as they're speaking,

24:06

he finishes and he exits the temple, joining

24:08

him on the stage. Casuthus

24:12

is happy. He's excited.

24:14

He he goes to Ion and greets

24:16

him, quote, my boy, be happy.

24:19

This is a fitting way for me to address

24:21

you. Ion

24:24

is a little confused. He tells

24:26

Suthus that he's happy enough. Xuthus

24:30

then asks to embrace Ion. He

24:32

wants to hug him again.

24:35

Ion is confused. He asks if

24:37

the God has sent him some kind of madness.

24:40

Xuthus tells him that, of course not, no, he's

24:43

great. He just wants to quote

24:45

to embrace what is most precious to

24:47

me. Again.

24:50

Ion is confused. He tells

24:52

Suthus to stop. He says no,

24:56

that he might damage any of the sacred dressings

24:58

that he wears as this attendant to the God if he

25:00

were to be embraced by this stranger again,

25:03

though Suthus wants to hug, noting

25:06

that he wouldn't be grabbing another's property but

25:08

his own, which

25:11

is of course a very weird way of getting his point

25:13

across. I won't spoil it for him,

25:15

but oh is he being a fucking weirdo and

25:17

borderline abusive? Ion

25:20

is not having it, thankfully. He

25:22

even threatens Suthus with an arrow

25:24

in his ribs, to which Suthus

25:27

asks why Ion quote

25:30

refuses to acknowledge me, your

25:32

nearest and dearest again,

25:35

Southus, you could be going about

25:37

this in a better way, but he doesn't,

25:39

and I think that that is so deeply on purpose.

25:42

Suthus is an incredible

25:44

contrast to both Creusa and

25:47

this Chorus of Women, where

25:49

Creusa and the women were kind

25:52

and calm and empathetic.

25:54

They were inherently warm and good

25:57

to Ion. Suthus

25:59

is just full on. He's coming

26:01

at Ion without explaining himself. He's

26:03

emotional and irrational, he's possessive,

26:06

and while he's being a man, a distinct an

26:08

intentional contrast with the many,

26:11

many women who've already been on the stage

26:13

to share their stories, their traumas,

26:16

their hopes and dreams. Only

26:19

for this bumbling man to come out of the

26:21

temple to Apollo where he just literally and

26:23

figuratively was speaking with this god

26:25

whose assault of his wife is

26:28

the plot of the play, and it starts trying

26:30

to force an embrace on a boy who

26:32

doesn't want it, telling him that he

26:34

is Xuthus's property.

26:38

The messages that Euripides is conveying

26:41

with this play are just again like

26:43

they are bigger and better and more powerful

26:45

than I even thought possible for Euripides,

26:48

I'm honestly just like incomplete awe that

26:51

it just keeps getting bigger and stronger than more of this that

26:53

I read, and we're waugh. Aon

26:55

tells Casuthus that he won't be humoring

26:58

this madness, to which Xuthus

27:01

says, quote, do

27:03

your worst, but if you kill me you

27:05

will be your father's murderer.

27:20

Suthus has just told Ion

27:23

that he basically has to hug

27:25

him because he's his

27:28

son, to which

27:30

Ion unsurprisingly basically says, what the

27:32

fuck are you talking about? Suthus

27:36

just says, quote, a running account

27:38

would make the story clear to you, Like,

27:41

okay, dude, then share that account

27:44

and yeah, Ion is us and essentially says

27:46

that. So Suthus, again being

27:48

the patriarch, says

27:50

simply quote, I am your father and you

27:52

are my son. Says

27:55

who? Ion asks? Xuthus

27:57

says that Apollo brought him up, but he's

28:00

south as his son again, just

28:02

making statements for Ion to take us backed.

28:05

So Ion says, basically, you're

28:07

telling me to leave you, but only with

28:10

yourself as evidence. So

28:12

Suthus admits that that's true,

28:15

and it's only since speaking with the god

28:17

that he can even say that much. So

28:20

I was like, okay, there, it is

28:22

like this the oracle was a riddle. You've

28:25

been tricked, Sutha says,

28:27

quote, then I didn't hear it right. Ion

28:30

asks, quote, what were Loxius's

28:33

exact words? Ion

28:36

is being very patient, explicitly

28:40

displaying character traits

28:42

and demeanor that do not resemble

28:46

Suthus, but Creusa.

28:49

He keeps asking questions, pulling

28:51

information from Suthus with

28:53

quick replies between the two. Through this

28:56

back and forth, it's eventually

28:58

revealed that the oracle told him that

29:00

the first person he encountered when he left

29:03

the temple was his natural son. But

29:06

when Ion asks quote her

29:08

own child or the gift of another, Soothus

29:11

admits, quote, a gift, but still my own.

29:15

And when Ion asks who his mother would

29:17

be, then Southus

29:19

just says, quote,

29:22

I was so overcome by this news that I didn't think to

29:24

ask, And

29:26

that's when I actually screamed out loud when reading this.

29:29

But wait, it gets better. Ion

29:31

asks, quote, was I born

29:33

from mother Earth, to which

29:36

Xuthus says, quote, soil

29:38

does not give birth to children. And

29:41

there it is. There's so much going on here,

29:44

But before we look at that, okay, Ion's response

29:46

to is to ask how Suthis

29:48

could be his father, to

29:51

which Southus just says that he doesn't know. He

29:53

just trusts the God. Like Southus

29:55

doesn't want to learn, he doesn't want to understand,

29:57

He just wants to possess. But

30:02

back to that being born to the soil bit

30:05

the entire mythos of the city of Athens, which

30:07

is deeply, deeply sacred

30:10

to the city and its citizens, all of

30:12

whom claim Athenian lineage.

30:14

Like explicitly states that Athenians

30:17

are born from the soil of Athens.

30:20

They are Atoxenus. It's

30:23

a mythological means of establishing

30:25

indigeneity, being quite

30:27

literally born of the

30:30

earth itself. So Xuthus

30:32

is making a really egregious

30:35

insult to all Athenians by

30:37

saying this line as like a throwaway

30:41

and given Euripides to Athenian and the play

30:43

would have been performed in Athens in front of an audience

30:45

of Athenians. This is a very

30:47

intentional slight But

30:50

of course it's not just that. Through

30:53

this entire character of Xuthus,

30:56

Euripides is creating a man who

30:58

stands in complete contrast to

31:01

Ion's character, who

31:03

instead explicitly resembles Creusa's

31:06

character. And Uthus

31:08

is not just like bumbling in this interaction,

31:10

but like intentionally patriarchal,

31:13

and I do mean that in the big

31:15

sense of the word. In addition to the small

31:18

Suthus is being patriarchal by establishing

31:20

himself as Ion's father like quite literally

31:23

the patriarch, but he's also being patriarchal.

31:25

And how he does it, how he

31:28

is claiming Ion as his son, because

31:30

he's not doing it out of love, He's not showing

31:33

an actual like affection for

31:35

Ion. He's claiming ownership.

31:38

Where Creusa asked Ion

31:40

questions about his life and his story

31:42

and his family, where Creusa

31:44

showed empathy for his story and his background

31:47

and thought about Ion's mother and she was

31:49

sad, and Suthus

31:52

just takes Suthus

31:54

asks no questions. He doesn't want to know

31:56

anything about Ion. He just hears he has a

31:58

son and immediately wants the possession that

32:01

comes with that. He wants to

32:03

possess a son because of everything it

32:05

means for Athenian men. He you know,

32:07

Ion is a son and not a daughter. And so

32:10

Suthus, through Ion, feels like

32:12

he's being granted an heir, someone

32:14

to carry the citizenship, someone to carry Suthus's

32:16

name and his wealth. Where

32:19

Creusa wants a child to love, Suthus

32:23

wants a child to possess because

32:27

and here is where I intentionally generalize.

32:30

He is representing men

32:33

patriarchy, and Creusa

32:35

is representing women and

32:38

I don't want to say patriarchy, but I really do mean it

32:40

as a way like as opposite

32:42

to patriarchy, where

32:46

broadly women are wired to be

32:48

concerned with kindness and care and

32:51

understanding and empathy. And men,

32:53

and again I'm intentionally generalizing, men

32:56

have proven that when in control, they are

32:58

primarily concerned with power and more control

33:01

possession. Suthus, who

33:03

is quite literally standing in for the patriarchy

33:05

here, has proven that he doesn't

33:08

care why or how ion

33:10

is his, just that he is. He

33:13

wants to take what he thinks is his to

33:15

possess it without question, let alone

33:17

the consent of the one that

33:19

he is seeking to possess,

33:23

which is of course why patriarchy.

33:26

Big patriarchy spawn imperialism.

33:29

Under patriarchy, the main concern is power,

33:32

control and ownership over land

33:34

and wealth. Imperialism is

33:36

the only way that the people in power believe they

33:38

can continue to hold that power. They must take

33:40

it by force, no matter the damage it does

33:42

to the people or the earth. There is no

33:44

concern for the actual land. That's

33:46

why they bomb and destroy, why they burn

33:49

thousand year old olive trees while claiming

33:51

to be the true inheritors of that land. But

33:53

how can anyone claim to be the wardens of a

33:55

land when they show no desire to care

33:57

for it, when they will burn ancient

34:00

trees and bomb the earth with chemicals and

34:02

damage that will last for generations to come,

34:04

all to establish more power,

34:06

to take more land from those

34:08

who have cared for it for generations,

34:11

just so they can extract its resources

34:14

to build more wealth. There's

34:18

a lot to debate about what exactly it means

34:20

to be indigenous to a land. I

34:23

am born of a colonizing group. I exist

34:25

as a colonizer on land, and that was colonized

34:27

by patriarchal imperialism. So I won't pretend

34:30

to have the answers, but I will

34:32

say that it is difficult to see how anyone can be indigenous

34:34

to a land when they slash and burn a land

34:36

where they plant invasive trees on mass

34:39

in order to keep other people out, where they

34:41

destroy and balm and soak with the blood

34:43

of children. It's difficult to see how

34:45

those people are meant to be that land's caretakers

34:48

when they show no intention of caring for

34:50

that land. In order

34:52

to claim ownership of land, the intention

34:55

should be to care for it. To love it

34:57

and cherish it for its natural state. The

34:59

intention should not be to bulldoze and set it on fire.

35:03

That's just more imperialist destruction.

35:06

But I guess I was still talking about I on and his

35:08

father, right. Ion

35:25

refuses to accept Suthus's claims

35:27

without evidence without asking questions,

35:29

because he is Creusa's son, so

35:32

he says, well, you must have had

35:34

an affair then if I was your child.

35:37

Suthus concedes that that's true,

35:39

and he blames his youth because

35:41

we're not meant to like suit this. That much

35:43

is very clear. He doesn't. He

35:46

does clarify though, when asked that the affair

35:48

that he had that could have resulted in a child

35:50

was before he married Creusa. Okay,

35:54

Ion says, quote, that

35:56

was when you fathered me. Sutha

35:59

says, quote, the time matches. Again.

36:03

He is uninterested in the evidence

36:05

or the details. He's basically just like, yeah,

36:08

sure, I mean, like, I had sex at least one

36:10

time before I married Crisis, so like that must be

36:12

it. And when Ion

36:14

is like, okay, well how did

36:16

I end up here, Suthus

36:19

might as well just say I don't know, but

36:22

don't worry. It gets better. Ion

36:24

keeps pressing. He does actually care to understand

36:27

this new information. He wants to know

36:29

the details, So he's like, okay,

36:32

so have you ever been to Delphi before? Soothus

36:35

is like, yeah, one time with for a Dionysian

36:38

festival. Okay,

36:40

Ion continues, so did you stay

36:42

with sponsors at the temple? Yeah?

36:46

I met some girls here too. Suthus

36:48

says, were

36:50

they initiates? Then? Ion

36:52

asks, which is when

36:55

Suthus says that the women he met back then

36:57

were main ads devotees to Dionysus,

37:00

which says a lot about where this is going. Ion

37:03

asks if he was sober or drunk.

37:06

Suthus just says, quote enjoying

37:09

the pleasures of Bacchus. So

37:11

basically, Euthus is revealing that he got drunk

37:13

at a presumably orgiastic festival to

37:15

Dionysus, and he very well could have fathered a

37:18

child during that time. This

37:20

bit of the story is so fucking modern, isn't it

37:22

Like a man being told he has a son and now

37:25

he's just going back in his memory trying to figure

37:27

out how it could have happened, And the answer

37:29

is a drunken night at a party that he barely

37:31

remembers humanity

37:34

never changes. Ion

37:37

keeps trying to ask questions, but Casuthus doesn't

37:39

seem to have any other answers, and

37:41

slowly, though it's clear that it's not

37:43

something Ion is ready to easily accept,

37:46

he does finally say that, like it would be wrong for

37:48

him not to believe Apollo, so

37:50

he's basically having to concede this new information

37:52

purely because of his devotion to the god. So

37:55

finally, eventually they do seem to kind

37:57

of embrace in some way. But even then

38:00

Ion is clearly so uncomfortable

38:02

with the whole situation, Like he has

38:04

to ask if he should touch Suthus

38:07

if he was his father, or to it Becauzuthus

38:09

tells him yeah, because he should

38:12

listen to Apollo, Like it's

38:14

just so icky for everyone.

38:17

Ion isn't happy about this. He isn't

38:19

happy to have this father, let alone someone

38:22

who is clearly not looking for a meaningful relationship

38:24

but like an answer to a problem.

38:27

Finally, after he seems to like

38:29

reluctantly accept that like this must

38:31

be true, he doesn't ever

38:34

turn affection toward Xuthus or

38:36

even like really acknowledge anything.

38:39

Instead, he directs his words to someone

38:42

else, quote, dearest

38:45

mother, will I ever see your face? I

38:47

love to see you now more than ever before,

38:50

whoever you are. But

38:52

it could be that you are dead and we cannot

38:54

see you even in a dream.

39:12

Oh, Nerds, this fucking

39:15

play, I'm completely obsessed,

39:17

Like it might be my favorite ever, not

39:21

even halfway through, but fuck everybody's

39:23

going He's going so hard on anti patriarchy,

39:25

Like, I don't think I'm reading too much into this. I think it's

39:27

fucking clear on the page, the

39:30

symbolism in Creusa and suit This

39:32

as these like wild contrasts

39:35

of power and family,

39:38

Like I'm fucking fascinated. I also

39:40

love that Ion kind of lacks

39:43

gender, or rather is

39:45

fluid, Like we know he's

39:47

a boy biologically, but he's

39:50

been raised at this temple, so like he

39:52

hasn't been socialized like a boy

39:54

would normally. He's been socialized

39:56

to be a temple attendant more than anything else.

39:59

So instead of fitting into one gender,

40:01

he's sort of taking on this role

40:03

of an in between, Like he's like

40:06

a blank slate through which we

40:08

can see the contrast between how

40:10

Creusa feels and how sooth This feels,

40:12

and how they both behave so

40:14

that the gender dynamics at play are like

40:16

exclusively between those two, with

40:19

Ion as this kind of like mediator.

40:24

The idea that I picked this play purely because

40:26

there's like a weird moment with Gorgan Blood

40:28

that we haven't even gotten to yet is so

40:30

wild to me now because I'm truly not

40:32

sure how I've I've just I don't

40:35

think I've ever been more in awe

40:37

of your Ypandies's work. The number of

40:39

times my jaw just fucking dropped or I've

40:41

shouted something out loud while reading this, like

40:43

I can't quite believe it's real, quite honestly,

40:46

and surely that's also in small part

40:48

to the translation. It's really fucking beautiful. And

40:50

also it's free online if you're curious. I've

40:52

linked to an absence description, But maybe

40:55

wait until after I finished with the series, because

40:57

I have a feeling these episodes are only going to get better,

41:00

Like this is exactly what

41:02

I needed. I knew Your Ypandies would bring you back into

41:04

this world that I love and like remind

41:06

me why the ancient world this was fucking fascinating

41:08

and meaningful in how these stories remain so relevant

41:10

today and oh he was all I needed.

41:14

Let's finish off the episode with a five star review

41:16

from one of you amazing listeners in

41:19

this one, well that's pretty fitting. It's

41:21

from a user in the States called Telephone

41:24

CMN best

41:27

mythology podcast. I love this

41:29

podcast so much. Well researched

41:31

and hilarious. Live is an engaging storyteller

41:34

who doesn't shy away from acknowledging the brutality

41:36

and general horror of women's lives in

41:38

the ancient and mythological worlds, while

41:41

at the same time making her love for the classics

41:43

very clear. That's right, folks, two things

41:45

can be true at the same time. She

41:47

draws astute parallels to modern life and somehow

41:50

manages to keep it all incredibly funny. Live

41:52

is doing her part to dismantle the CIS hetero patriarchy

41:55

through storytelling. She's a queen and you should

41:57

listen to this podcast. I

42:00

mean, I hope it's clear, but that one made me really

42:03

happy, like just our

42:06

real joy. Le's talk

42:08

about Mith's Baby is written and produced

42:10

by me Live Albert Nikayla

42:12

Smith is the hermes to My Olympians.

42:15

My assistant producer, Laura Smith is the

42:17

audio engineer and production assistant.

42:19

The podcast is part of the iHeart podcast

42:22

Network. Select music

42:24

in this episode was by Luke Chaos. Listen

42:26

on Spotify or Apple or wherever you get

42:29

your podcasts and help me continue bring

42:31

you the world of No Still.

42:33

If you were gonna donate to my Patreon,

42:36

give it to Gaza instead. Thank

42:39

you all so much. I

42:42

am live and I love this shit.