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listening to Lift Kit? From

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Npr. Any.

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Table here in from Aerial Sierra. Do you

0:52

ever feel like your memory let you down?

0:54

Leave the hang and seemingly when you need

0:56

it most. Like

0:59

okay, you're in the middle of the

1:01

party weakening for friends that wild thing

1:04

that happened us week, but then poof

1:06

The name in that celebrity who grabs

1:08

your coffee by mistake is completely out

1:10

of reach. The come on memory. ah

1:12

you know she's in the show with

1:15

mystery and as and other guy with

1:17

a big hair you know or I

1:19

swear or what about this one. Either

1:21

walk into a room to get something

1:23

and then immediately forget why you're there

1:26

like brain. We had a plan a

1:28

mere ten seconds ago. You can

1:30

still recite every lyric of my favorite song

1:32

from middle school. How could you have already

1:34

lost the file of what we were just

1:36

doing? The most common misconception

1:38

is that memory is supposed

1:40

to be a complete and

1:43

faith whole record of the

1:45

past which is the weekend

1:47

replay the entire past and

1:49

anytime we want to. and

1:51

in fact memories selective it

1:53

can be buyers to can

1:56

be work in reconstructed in

1:58

many different ways. Read:

2:00

My designs are powerful and

2:03

fallible. Even knows of memory

2:05

researchers. Like Taran randomized, I'm

2:07

the director of the Dynamic Memory

2:09

Lab at U C Davis and

2:11

and professor in the Department of

2:13

Psychology and the Center for Neuroscience

2:15

and. Yasir, the author. Oh

2:17

Sorry gives us the mississippi of

2:20

us all against society of his

2:22

Sarin drug. And I'm the author

2:24

of the New York Times bestseller

2:27

Why We Remember. Times as

2:29

all too often people have unrealistic

2:31

expectations of their memories like determined

2:33

to preserve every moment of every

2:35

day and crystal clear Technicolor. Let.

2:37

Her brains aren't just. Storage containers If you

2:40

wanted to design a brain that

2:42

stored everything, you'd run out of

2:44

space Awfully fast. but also you'd

2:46

have a lot of trouble finding

2:48

the information you need when you

2:51

needed. And so as a

2:53

result is much better to be selected. And

2:55

we're going to teach you how to do that

2:57

in this episode. Like can. We

3:00

talk about again. Rights,

3:02

understanding and improving your memory?

3:04

Who discussed. Or it it seems really

3:06

talk to you for making memory stick which was

3:08

which have you. Read.

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5:46

How does memory even work? Yeah, it's

5:48

great question and one in which if I

5:50

gave you the conclusive answer, I get the

5:52

Nobel prize. At that, there's

5:54

still a lot better known about

5:57

exactly how and why are memories

5:59

are built. In a way to do. without

6:02

getting too tricky for their absolute.

6:05

Let's go over the basics he moved

6:07

to now to strengthen our everyday memory.

6:09

Neuroscientists an author Li said you know

6:11

that has memory creation is a fourth

6:14

step process to go on Strike. First

6:16

your brain. Takes an all

6:19

the sights, sounds, smells, the

6:21

case, the meaning, the and

6:23

most and the language is

6:25

what you perceives and paid

6:27

attention to and translates all

6:29

of that into neurological. Language

6:31

next, consolidation. Your brain

6:34

keeps. All the different neurons that

6:36

have been activated by that particular moment

6:38

in time and links that into a

6:40

single pattern. And let's take the memory

6:42

of you listening to The Spot Right

6:44

now. there's a networking for the sound

6:46

of my voice, maybe the feeling of

6:48

the headphones over. Your ears, the heat of

6:50

the sense. As you walk your dog around the

6:52

block, you. Bring me with all

6:54

of that information to gather. Third

6:57

storage, The connection as as move

6:59

and circuit court synopses in your

7:01

brain become stronger or weaker over

7:04

time depending on how much exposure

7:06

you have to the information. Sort

7:08

of. Listen to this episode every

7:11

day for the next week to

7:13

circuits are getting mighty strong. Finally,

7:15

Amber for later letters tomorrow, next

7:17

month, next year, Twenty years from

7:20

now when any part of that

7:22

woven circuit. Is activated. You can

7:24

retrieve that woven information and you

7:26

remember. Sounds simple enough in theory,

7:29

but in reality we know it's

7:31

rarely so. Are we from now? If

7:33

I asked you to recall, Taran spoke about memory, just

7:35

mention that the top of this else. Do you think

7:37

you could do it? Do.

7:39

Than remember the title right now. here's

7:41

the problem. If I could

7:43

just activates exacts populations of neurons

7:46

in the exact sequence that's happening.

7:48

Now if next week I could

7:50

react to read that exact same

7:53

set of neurons I would theoretically

7:55

have already experience of the Smith.

7:58

Known. Fact: We never really. Uda. We

8:00

only get little bits and pieces of.

8:02

It. But. It's enough to put

8:04

together a story about what happened. Think.

8:07

About when you're trying to recall how preseason. Like.

8:10

I was probably at home with

8:12

them at dinnertime. It's a memory

8:14

then is less than exact rendering

8:16

like a photo sign, and more

8:18

like a realistic illustration, like a

8:20

painting or cloths subject to some

8:22

interpretation. Which. Is to say making

8:24

memories can be a single tricky business.

8:26

So how do you make sure you

8:28

get the details right? Least. As

8:31

a baseline for us this

8:33

is cause like the core

8:35

of what are human brains

8:37

has been designed to capture

8:39

we remember was meaningful emotional

8:41

surprising new. Or. What we

8:43

repeat and practice. Can you remember

8:45

all that great? The let's learn

8:48

how to make some memorable memories.

8:51

Take. One so guess you can't remember

8:53

which you don't pay attention to says

8:55

the first necessary ingredients and creating a

8:58

memories that gonna last longer than this

9:00

present moment is attention. it's neurological fight

9:02

the we need that input of attention

9:04

and or to created memory otherwise it

9:07

doesn't get mates see won't remember was

9:09

right in front of you even if

9:11

your eyes C s I know how

9:13

obvious that sounds but Lisa says a

9:16

lot of the time the majority of

9:18

the time her opinions what people gripe

9:20

over as memory problems. Are actually

9:22

just attention problems? Like. When

9:25

you can't find your parking spot, say my,

9:27

leave them all I said oh my god

9:29

did I park on level three or level

9:32

for I can't remember ones. I am fairly

9:34

blaming my memory because my memory was ever

9:36

involved in this process to begin with, because

9:38

I never paid attention in the first place.

9:41

ever. Been driving home and suddenly realize you

9:43

have no memory of the trip so far

9:45

beyond on the pilots were allied. This is

9:48

because you weren't paying attention to your surroundings

9:50

even though you're I saw right. years. I

9:52

saw the church, the grocery stores, the intersection.

9:54

Like your he didn't crash the car right?

9:57

I saw everything. So this is people think

9:59

like of. By then I should

10:01

be able to remember it as as

10:03

know you have to pay attention to

10:05

it is a what's hatches Our attention

10:07

is things that are meaningful, emotional, surprising

10:10

new, or if we get intentional about

10:12

it with things like practice repetition of

10:14

focus. but what does more intentional focus

10:16

look like exactly. Presenters.

10:18

Be more aware of the obvious distractions and your

10:20

day. Technology. Of course is

10:23

a biggie. Things like hero or

10:25

alerts on your phone and you watch

10:27

the keep you away from what's

10:29

going on in your environment, the sights

10:31

and sounds they give you those

10:33

who need details. And then where

10:35

you can Lisa says slowdown just the tiniest

10:38

bit to let your brain catch up to

10:40

your senses. are you always miss placing your

10:42

morning brew for example, Don't forget

10:44

to use your eyes and your ears

10:47

are vision is so fast says I

10:49

said I'm putting. This. Much

10:51

as a T on my desk and

10:53

I say out loud my brains that

10:55

has chance to see and hear ads

10:57

and made a performance of it as

10:59

being else I sat here and then

11:01

I go off and zip off and

11:03

do a bunch of things my brain

11:05

had a chance to actually make the

11:07

memory of where I put that for

11:09

every forgetfulness with things like keys, shoes,

11:11

cellphones, homework, leases as you might consider

11:13

taking it one step further if you

11:15

just put it in the same place

11:17

every time that you don't have to

11:19

involve your memory because value. Have. Yeah,

11:22

you need actually semantic memory is made

11:24

serve like your address and your birthday.

11:26

It's like my keys always go in

11:28

this ball on as a rule on

11:31

a habit. Ah, semantic memory. Did I

11:33

forget to explain at once? You said

11:35

this is the Wikipedia of your brain?

11:37

This is this. Information that you

11:39

know the sex and and knowledge.

11:41

So it's what. Six, Ten Six,

11:43

Who is the First President? It's your

11:46

address, your birthday, all that biographical information.

11:48

The other type of memory we're working

11:50

on today is episodic. memory is

11:52

the hallmark. As an episodic memory is

11:55

a memory that you can mentally time

11:57

travel to where if you close your

11:59

eyes if you might have and you

12:02

think about this memory of something

12:04

on haven't used the if you can

12:06

bring back and what did it look

12:08

like when I was thera? Like what

12:11

was a hearing selling? See a

12:13

like? Who was I West? What happens

12:15

next? Monica Chew, A postdoctoral scientists Emory

12:17

University. She studies human cognition and emotion.

12:20

Those kinds of things are. All the

12:22

features of an episodic memory. you have

12:24

to bring up that perceptual information and

12:26

kind of we experienced the as she's

12:29

going to help us with. Take away

12:31

to More is more to make a

12:33

memory sticky. immerse your senses. But.

12:35

First, it's time for a

12:38

memory pop quiz. This

12:40

type of memory is like the

12:42

wikipedia of your brain species are

12:44

the five qualities least you know

12:47

the says make something memorable for

12:49

gain. Your parking spot often isn't

12:51

a memory problem, it's ah, this

12:53

type. Of problem. If.

12:55

This little trivia test as you sweating

12:58

Don't fret, Monica is just the person

13:00

you need. Absolutely everyone can make their

13:02

memories from them as practice so come

13:04

on. I always tell people is if

13:07

you can choose between something with. Nice

13:09

detail and more details to the thing

13:11

with more. Detail as possible. In

13:14

addition to her research, she's also

13:16

to put it mildly, a trivia

13:18

enthusiast. Monica has been invited on

13:20

a Tv show Jeopardy four times

13:22

To date her very first appearance,

13:24

she won the Jeopardy College Championship.

13:27

At just eighteen years old. So.

13:29

It's safe to say monica remember as

13:31

a lot about a lot of different

13:33

topics. I think everyone has their sort

13:35

of home court heard of like things

13:37

that. You might just catch me reading

13:39

the Wikipedia page about just like on random.

13:42

Tuesday because I like it. And then there's

13:44

things that I do feel like it's like

13:46

taking my vitamins or it's. Like okay,

13:48

let's let me study. You know

13:50

the world's longest rivers and lakes

13:53

and. Things like that. The secret to her

13:55

super memory. She talks it up to

13:57

a natural curiosity. A. Love of reading

13:59

of true and being someone for

14:02

whom trivia just sticks. But. She

14:04

says you don't have to be a trivia champions,

14:06

Have a strong memory if you want your brain

14:08

to hold on to something, just immerse yourself in

14:10

the subject as much as possible. To

14:13

are you studying a certain air of

14:15

history? Say. Try making

14:18

a playlist. Opt for the picture

14:20

books at the library. so much the movie

14:22

it's look of videos on youtube. Or

14:24

if you have the option between

14:26

watching something online or going in

14:28

person. Go in person to look at

14:30

it because you're gonna get rich like three.

14:33

The experience of being there and so. Any

14:35

time you have an opportunity to learn

14:37

something in a richer way, I would

14:39

say. Do it because

14:41

plenty. Of evidence suggests that memory

14:44

in general is better. The more

14:46

detail is. Available to us. Let's

14:48

repeat again at those five qualities

14:50

our brains remember meaningful, emotional, surprising

14:52

or new and what we repeat

14:54

and practice and more. those boxes

14:56

you can check the stickier a

14:58

memory will be com. Remember those

15:00

synopses Lisa talked about earlier. the

15:02

more details you give your brain

15:04

to little into the stream couldn't

15:06

circuitry becomes easier. The memory is

15:08

to find leader so if you're

15:10

setting for it has for example

15:12

and you find the vocabulary just

15:15

isn't landing on it's own. You

15:17

might consider going outside the box of it. Try

15:19

a silly story and unexpected story like

15:22

make it disgusting, make it surprising, may

15:24

get absurd on it until elicited and

15:26

motion out of you and self we

15:28

can have to story or something emotional

15:30

to what you're trying to learn that

15:32

will help it to you could also

15:35

enhancer said he faced with sense or

15:37

music or both to give your memory

15:39

more keys to work with. Any part

15:41

of the memory conserve to be a

15:43

trigger of the other parts of i'm

15:45

in the same physiological emotional state if

15:48

I had the same kind. Of que

15:50

el there was this sense there was the south

15:52

I was listening to do a Lisa and I'm

15:54

like of I have a chance to like was

15:56

at a dual lethal i take the test it

15:59

might help me remember them the tabloids and if

16:01

you really want to he said has made sure

16:03

to speak out you're studying over time. Learning

16:06

an hour a day for five

16:08

days will be more effective for

16:10

your memory and five hours a

16:12

night before test and of course

16:14

actual documentation helps to taking a

16:16

picture, bringing home a keepsake journaling

16:19

in this A Lisa Says technology.

16:21

Though often and attention cease to be

16:23

a great age memory when I go

16:26

to ah Yellowstone National Park and I

16:28

see a bison am I take a

16:30

picture of that and and I'll revisit

16:33

that memory of on remember that we.

16:35

Saw the place and and

16:37

because it reinforces memory so

16:39

you're of social media. Could

16:41

actually be lovely memory reinforces for

16:44

what happened in your allies. Speaking

16:46

of reinforcements, let's not forget the

16:48

tried and true memory practice. City

16:50

or is it works. Some of the

16:52

best trivia experts I know to have

16:55

bought a flash parting and. One final

16:57

tribute it for five hundred. Alex by

16:59

me and Monica Watching Jeopardy a lot

17:01

is a great way to learn things

17:03

because they tend to ask about same

17:05

questions over and over. Or

17:07

it. Thus far we've talked a lot about building memories.

17:10

Now. Let's talk about ways to recall him

17:12

when you need him take away. Three. Break.

17:14

It down to bring it back. Remember

17:17

better with memory devices. When. You have

17:19

watch and information to remember at once.

17:21

Turn has a few strategy sneak memorization

17:23

a more manageable the first is called

17:26

sunken. So if I have a

17:28

phone number like five, Ryo five five

17:30

five, one to one to. That's

17:32

ten digits, which is a lot

17:34

of information for me to juggle

17:36

around my minded given time, but

17:38

I'm really remembering that is three

17:40

numbers are Ryo! By. Five, Five,

17:43

One, Two and Two. And so

17:45

that takes up much less space

17:47

and memory if I group them.

17:49

The way to Three Trunks: acronyms.

17:51

Worth the same way Organizing information

17:54

to reduce your mental load. Weekends.

17:56

essentially take white letters like

17:58

f b i And

18:00

if I use that as an acronym for

18:03

this one thing which the Federal Bureau of

18:05

Investigation, I've taken this complex set

18:07

of words and chunked it into one unit.

18:09

This is the key to all sorts of

18:11

memory strategies. Just using what you know to

18:13

reduce how much you have to hold in your mind at

18:15

a given time. Or pairing unknown

18:18

information with things you're already familiar

18:20

with. Which is hugely important because

18:23

now it gives us more pathways

18:25

to access that memory later on.

18:29

One popular way to do this is the method

18:31

of low-side, also known as a mind palace. It's

18:33

a method a lot of memory champions use. The

18:35

basic idea is you have a place you can

18:38

visit in your mind that you know really well.

18:40

Your childhood home, say. So when you're trying to

18:42

remember something, or a lot

18:44

of something, maybe a really long

18:46

grocery list, you can imagine

18:49

yourself going into different areas in this

18:51

well-known location and placing the things

18:53

you have to remember in those spots. So

18:55

the milk goes on the kitchen counter. Eggs

18:58

on the coffee table. The creamer on the couch.

19:01

By coupling something super familiar with a thing

19:03

you're trying to learn, that new thing becomes

19:05

stickier. So what happens is later

19:07

on, I have a context. It's not

19:10

just a thing of milk, but

19:12

it's a thing of milk that I saw in

19:14

this particular room. It's locking

19:16

in all the things that I need

19:18

to buy, which is

19:21

kind of arbitrary, but locking it into

19:23

something that makes sense to me, which

19:25

is this mental nap of my childhood

19:27

home. Pretty cool, right? But

19:29

you also don't have to do all that. If you're

19:31

not trying to be a memory champion, you can always

19:34

just write it down. Take away

19:36

four. Learn when to let go and outsource

19:38

your memory needs. Let's

19:40

start with a classic example. That

19:43

tip of the tongue phenomenon where you know

19:45

you know that word. You

19:47

know that famous surfer's name lives

19:49

somewhere in your brain, but it

19:51

just will not surface. Lisa

19:54

says often people feel the need to suffer

19:56

through this state, to make their memory stronger.

20:00

That's not how it works. See,

20:02

with a tip of the tongue, you

20:04

can think of proper nouns as living

20:06

in neurological cul-de-sacs. Okay,

20:08

so ultimately there's only one road that's

20:10

going to lead to that specific address.

20:13

Unlike common nouns, which you can imagine

20:15

living on Main Street, USA, with hundreds

20:18

of roads that lead to them. Right?

20:21

So a tip of the tongue happens because those

20:23

proper noun words are a lot harder for your brain

20:25

to reach. And you end up spinning your wheels.

20:28

Like, what is the name of that famous surfer? Starts

20:30

with an L, I think. Is

20:33

it Lance? Uh-oh, now I'm thinking

20:35

about Lance Armstrong, Torte-de-France, Cheryl Crow.

20:38

So this is why it's okay to Google it,

20:40

because you're just in the wrong neural neighborhood. So

20:42

you can Google it, find out

20:44

that it's Laird Hamilton, and then you can move

20:46

on with your conversation, and

20:48

your brain can do something useful. You can also

20:51

just let it go. Easier said than done, Lisa.

20:54

But we hear you. Sometimes your memory

20:56

is just going to need a boost.

20:58

Specifically, Lisa often feels concerns from people

21:00

not being able to memorize certain things,

21:02

like new phone numbers or the names

21:05

of old elementary school teachers. Look, life

21:07

is now an open book test. I

21:10

grew up in a time where you'd ask questions

21:12

about how the world worked, and they

21:14

just float into space. No one in the house could

21:16

answer them. But now we can ask

21:18

questions and we say, well, let's look it up.

21:21

We can shift from

21:23

memorizing information to understanding

21:25

information and using what you're

21:27

learning to critically think. So

21:30

don't be scared of search engines, and

21:32

don't be wary of a good, old-fashioned

21:34

to-do list. Because in the case of

21:36

prospective memory, that's memory for things you

21:39

need to remember for the future. Your

21:41

brain just needs a lot of help. It's

21:43

not cheating to keep a to-do list.

21:45

Everybody can take that off

21:48

that mental anxiety of, oh

21:50

my God, I have to remember everything I need to do later

21:52

on my own, or there's something wrong with me. Nope,

21:54

you're human. Go write it down. Go.

21:59

Let's Do It. Out with how

22:01

to keep that freshly bogeys memory healthy

22:03

and strong. Ugly. Five, Practice and nine

22:05

she'll be. Routine first term memory, get

22:07

lots of rest, And challenge yourself

22:09

daily. First tricky know if

22:11

you forgetfulness might be a problem. Here

22:14

is one distinction Lisa makes to help:

22:16

If you can't find your keys on

22:18

my the where my kids that like

22:20

again you didn't pay attention normal. If

22:22

you find your keys in a very

22:24

strange place like in the refrigerator, other

22:26

microwave or somewhere that we've never for

22:28

keys that's a moment to consider something

22:30

I think I have. If you your

22:32

keys and think I don't know what

22:34

these are for a are not normal

22:36

memory problems for those are the kinds

22:38

of things to to pay attention to

22:40

My team coaches everyone whether or not

22:42

you have a concern. To check

22:45

in with your doctor about your brain

22:47

health and now it should be part

22:49

of our I think our annual exam

22:51

said like how's your cognitive, how's has

22:54

your brain, how's how's your memory of

22:56

rather than going for the first conversation

22:58

in a state of something might be

23:00

wrong. Other than that, everyone can and

23:03

should engage in greatest everyday memory health.

23:06

A lot of the basic practices for

23:08

having a strong mind are the same

23:10

for having a strong body so we're

23:12

not gonna spend a ton of time

23:14

on them here but you know the

23:16

drill Exercise every day he to nutrient

23:18

rich diet engage in social interactions and

23:20

avoid stress as often as he can

23:22

and then of course they're sleep here

23:24

at least shit. We have been many

23:26

many episodes preaching the importance of sleeps

23:28

and you should definitely listen to some

23:30

if you have any questions of we

23:32

practices but for the purpose of this

23:34

episode just new sleep. Is extremely important

23:37

for a lot of things, especially your

23:39

memory. One of the key things on

23:41

your brain is doing a while since

23:43

is forming the stable neural circuits as

23:45

making memories of i don't I don't

23:48

get a full seventy nine hours of

23:50

I don't get the right stages. As.

23:52

Of sleep a quality and quantity then

23:55

some of my memory. some today won't

23:57

be fully formed or they might not.

24:00

Formed at all and I'll forget

24:02

some us today tomorrow. So get

24:04

your rest, secure those memories, and

24:06

then go out and use your

24:08

brain. I would say that for

24:10

folks, I would encourage you to

24:12

be lifelong learners and in doing

24:14

so, you you would actively use

24:16

your memory every day For a

24:18

million ways to do that. Wiki

24:20

Roulette is one that I love.

24:22

It's just when it sounds like

24:24

a website that serve you completely

24:26

random Wikipedia pages, but there's also

24:28

crosswords or sudoku. Luna. Sport learn

24:30

language, then a final protip.

24:33

To make sure you really learn that

24:35

information, test yourself on it. But here's

24:37

the twist. Test yourself before you even

24:39

learned that lesson as well as after.

24:42

We learn the most when we

24:44

challenge or cells and so if

24:46

you test yourself francis as the

24:48

ultimate way to do it's it's

24:50

has to. So before you learn

24:52

the information of ancestors of after

24:54

you've learned the information and that's

24:56

an extraordinarily powerful tool for retaining

24:58

informational long run. That's so interesting.

25:00

So like if I'm saying for a science

25:02

tests the best thing I could do is

25:04

go to the end of the chapter where

25:06

the quizzes read the questions and try to

25:08

answer them first before going back. To read

25:10

the chapter of the but that's exactly right.

25:12

Yeah, that's exactly right now kinda. Come to

25:15

think of it, I should tell my students

25:17

the Earth. So. With that in mind

25:19

friends let's to little more remembering before

25:21

we go, I bring back our memory

25:23

with. This type of

25:26

memory is like the wikipedia of

25:28

your brain. get semantic memory One

25:30

hundred points least you know the

25:32

says for getting your parking spot

25:35

isn't a memory problem is when

25:37

I attention problem finally to remember

25:39

something you should make a meaningful

25:42

emotional surprising new or repeat and

25:44

practice it. Let's go

25:46

ahead and do that now with a recap. take

25:49

away line so guess he can't remember

25:51

which you don't pay attention to italy

25:53

to one of memory to stick there

25:55

are lots of ways to do it

25:57

the mercer senses make a smelly funny

26:00

or surprising or all of the above.

26:03

Then put it on flashcards and repeat.

26:05

Takeaway 3. Break it down to bring it back.

26:08

When trying to remember a lot of information at

26:10

once, organize it into smaller units and

26:12

pair what you know with what you don't know. Takeaway

26:15

4. Learn when to let go and

26:17

outsource your memory needs. It's not cheating

26:19

to make a list. Takeaway 5. Challenge

26:22

yourself. A healthy memory is one that's

26:24

well rested and used every day. For

26:30

more LifeKit, check out our other episodes.

26:32

We've got one on Debunking Common Sleepness

26:35

and another with Charin on How to

26:37

Be More Open-Minded. You can find those

26:39

at npr.org/LifeKit. And if

26:41

you love LifeKit and want more,

26:44

subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org/LifeKit

26:46

newsletter. Also, we'd love

26:48

to hear from you. If you have

26:50

episode ideas or feedback you want to

26:52

share, email us at lifekit at npr.org.

26:58

This episode of LifeKit was produced by Margaret

27:00

Serino. It was edited by Megan Kane. Our

27:02

host is Mary El Segura. Our visual

27:05

editor is Beth Harlan. Our

27:07

digital editor is Malika Garie. Megan

27:09

Kane is the supervising editor. Beth

27:11

Donovan is the executive producer. Our production

27:13

team also includes Nee Candy Kegel, Mary

27:16

Schneider, and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering

27:18

support comes from James Willis and

27:20

Tiffany Baricah. I'm Annie Tagle.

27:23

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