Phil Circle and Singer-songwriter-guitarist and videographer Ian Leith meet for lunch in Chicago's South Loop to discuss their experiences in Chicago music. Ian also talks about working in Los Angeles, moving to Chicago to work for The Jerry Springer Show, and what it was like playing music on the cruise lines.

Phil and Ian also spent time digging into the despair of wanting to quit what you love, and how to climb out by gaining a perspective.

Here's a video Ian produced about Phil, from the In The Loop playlist of Circle's YouTube page.

This was recorded at Flo and Santos on South Wabash Avenue in Chicago on March 26th, 2019.

If you're enjoying Phil Circle's discussions, check out his award-winning book,

The Outback Musician's Survival Guide: One Guy's Story of Surviving as an Independent Musician, available in all formats.