0:01

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Slackware

0:03

Week! Get ready to dive deep

0:06

into the world of simplicity and stability. Leaving

0:09

no stone unturned, your host Brent has

0:11

spent all week preparing and we're excited

0:13

to say Brent has passionately and confidently

0:15

taken the reins on Slackware Week. Seriously?

0:19

He's demanding we call him the

0:21

King of Slackware. In just moments

0:23

Brent will explore its unique package

0:26

management system, reputation for a rock

0:28

solid performance and passionate user community.

0:31

Whether you're a seasoned Slackware Pro or

0:33

a curious newcomer, this week Brent will

0:35

expand your Linux horizons. Stay

0:37

tuned, Slackware Week starts right now!

0:48

We got a problem. Brent's not here. No,

0:51

chair is empty. Cat's unloved.

0:55

Anybody know where Brent is? I see

0:57

Alex is here. Hey Alex. Yeah,

1:00

your token imperialist person

1:02

today is me, not Brent. Well

1:05

that's good. That at least balances the show out

1:07

a little bit I guess. Quick hot swap, thank

1:09

you. I'm sure Brent will be here with Slackware

1:11

Week soon. In his honor, I had

1:14

pancakes with maple syrup for breakfast. And

1:16

was it good maple syrup? No.

1:18

He wouldn't have passed the Brent test. Okay.

1:21

So today on the show after months

1:24

of internal debate over in the NixOS

1:26

community, we're gonna cover the community's recent

1:28

internal struggles and examine what's happened, as

1:30

far as we can tell, and

1:33

then what's changing. And then we'll round

1:35

the show out with our boosts and our picks and all of

1:38

that. So let's say good morning to

1:40

our virtual lug, time appropriate greetings, El

1:42

Mumble Room. Hello. Hello.

1:48

Got a nice little showing up there in the quiet listening

1:50

area too. Thank you very much for

1:52

joining us in that live Mumble Room. You can too. Deets

1:55

on our website at jupiterbroadcasting.com. And

1:58

let's say good morning to our friends at Tails. Hello! Hello!

2:01

Hey Tailscale! Tailscale

2:05

is programmable networking software that is private

2:07

and secure by default, very

2:10

fast and this week they just rolled

2:12

out a brand spanking, rebuild, Android app

2:14

that just got a whole lot better.

2:17

So go try Tailscale for free on

2:19

100 devices at tailscale.com/Linux Unplugged, the easiest

2:21

way to connect your devices directly to

2:23

each other, for yourself or for

2:26

a team. tailscale.com/Linux

2:28

Unplugged. Alright,

2:30

so this week we want to cover what's been going

2:32

on with Nix as we've been getting questions into the

2:35

show, is Nix dying? Should I? We've

2:37

had several people ask if maybe they should learn something

2:39

else because they're concerned that Nix will be gone in

2:41

a couple of years. You

2:43

see it on various places on Reddit

2:45

and other social media as well. Seems

2:48

like something that for

2:50

Nix, which has remained relatively niche, somehow

2:52

the drama in the community is getting

2:54

more coverage lately than anything about the

2:57

fundamental project or technology or game changing

3:00

value that it brings. And I think this is

3:02

why we've kind of drug our feet on covering

3:04

it because we're so far over in the technological

3:06

value side of Nix and have

3:08

so little insight really into what goes

3:10

on in the internal area of the

3:12

community because we're on the

3:15

production end of Nix. We're implementing, we're

3:17

using, we're not on the development side, we're

3:19

very grateful, but that's just not a

3:21

side we follow very closely. And so when

3:24

internal rifts begin to build, we like to

3:26

follow them so we can stay informed, but

3:29

it's not necessarily our inclination to make content

3:31

out of them. But there does seem

3:33

to be confusion and even concern about the

3:35

long-term viability of Nix and Nix OS. And

3:37

so we thought, okay, all right, let's

3:40

address this. And it does seem like there is some

3:42

forward progress this week as we record as well. So

3:44

the timing happens to work pretty well. I

3:47

think to start, boys, we should start with kind of trying

3:50

to explain where the Nix OS and fits in. Again,

3:53

we're not Nix experts, we're enthusiasts,

3:56

so this is the best to our understanding. is

4:00

the NICS project is governed by the

4:02

NICS OS Foundation. That's a nonprofit organization

4:05

that handles the project's finances and legal

4:07

responsibilities. The kind of same thing we see in

4:09

a lot of software projects, right? You can

4:11

have the core project itself, which is governed by

4:13

open source licenses and the rules around contribution based

4:15

on the repo. But ultimately, you've

4:18

got to interact with taking donations and hosting

4:20

events and paying money and interacting with governments

4:22

around the world. And then you start to

4:24

need legal structure of some kind. And

4:27

so they got a board, and we met some of the folks on

4:29

that board. They all seem like they're pretty solid

4:31

individuals with good intentions for NICS. And

4:34

according to the board's page,

4:36

its responsibilities include handling administrative,

4:38

legal, and financial tasks, sponsorships,

4:40

and donations, funding

4:43

for community events and efforts. The

4:46

board is not responsible for technical

4:48

leadership, decisions, or direction, nor

4:51

is it expected to handle all decision

4:53

making. Yeah, instead, the board is responsible

4:55

for providing a framework for teams to

4:57

self-organize, including a duty to

4:59

hand out the credentials and permissions required for

5:02

the team's work. And I guess from

5:04

what I read online, this all seems pretty typical of

5:07

articles of association for a Dutch foundation, which is, I

5:09

think, the situation here. And

5:12

so this is the foundation's role in the NICS community.

5:15

So what is happening in the NICS community? The

5:18

gist of it is that the original creator of NICS

5:21

felt sort of thrust into a de

5:23

facto benevolent dictator for life role that he's

5:26

indicated he didn't necessarily want, but

5:28

sometimes I think there was a need for a decision maker

5:30

or something like that. He's now

5:33

formally stepped down. He remains a

5:35

contributor and works at Determinate

5:38

Systems. Yeah, I wonder, it seems kind of like

5:40

NICS has been small enough, niche

5:42

enough that things have been self-organizing pretty

5:44

effectively, and so this kind of just

5:46

could happen, but as more

5:49

tensions grow, as more people are using it, as businesses,

5:51

as we saw it, NICS kind of really sprung up

5:53

around it. There's just a lot

5:55

more pressure on that organization or lack thereof, and

5:57

not a lot of clarity, which seems like it's a

5:59

good thing. maybe had been all right before but

6:01

definitely not going forward. I think what's

6:04

interesting is where that phrase, benevolent

6:06

dictator for life, came from. We

6:08

haven't mentioned yet the open letter from

6:10

a bunch of disgruntled NICS

6:13

community members who in my

6:16

opinion did somewhat of a

6:18

character assassination towards Elko and

6:20

some of the other people

6:22

involved in kind of the governance structures

6:25

as they were before they wrote the

6:27

letter. Yeah, the open

6:29

letter I think is

6:31

like a rabbit hole we could really get into.

6:33

So this open letter I think does characterize Elko

6:36

as basically a public demand that he step down. In

6:38

the letter they publicly demand that Elko step down and

6:40

then about a week later Elko did step down. I

6:45

don't know if Elko was going to do that all along or if

6:47

he stepped down because of that letter. Yeah, it

6:49

seems like there have been rumblings of these concerns

6:51

and flare-ups and discontent sort of in the background

6:53

and at this point things

6:55

really hit a punctuated point and

6:58

yeah, then Elko steps down and

7:00

announces that they're going to appoint

7:02

a constitutional assembly which

7:05

will be tasked with setting up a new

7:07

governance structure run by the community that

7:09

is capable of serving the community's needs.

7:12

Then once established, the foundation is

7:15

intending to delegate some of its power

7:18

to that new assembly. Yeah,

7:20

so that kind of some

7:22

expected next steps for where things could go

7:24

after the open letter and after there have

7:27

been a lot of complaints from both

7:29

sides. And that process has been playing out for the

7:31

last couple of weeks. So to

7:33

sum it up, to try to I think if I were to

7:35

zoom out at a 50-foot level, a

7:37

long time ago there was essentially this kind

7:39

of started from a disagreement around flakes and

7:41

how flakes should be included. That

7:44

failed to find a resolution that everybody was

7:46

happy with which left a bad taste in

7:48

people's mouth. This has festered into a long

7:51

turbulent discussion in the community that now it

7:53

goes into multiple areas in the community including

7:56

a failure to find any real solution or

7:58

direction around community moderation. This

8:00

led some to feel unsafe That

8:03

on that issue has snowballed into its

8:05

own entire problem And it's

8:07

created a vast amount of confusion and discontent

8:09

over the general governance around Nix Then

8:12

while this was brewing just this general discontent

8:14

around how Nix is moderated how it's governed

8:16

all these things while that was kind of

8:19

brewing A

8:21

sponsor came along this tied to the military

8:23

industrial complex Adderall And

8:25

drill and drill. Thank you. And drill

8:28

industries. They sponsored Nix con EU Some

8:31

in the community didn't like this the venue I

8:34

here also wasn't very pleased about it and

8:36

it provoked this discussion Around Nix

8:38

and its ties to the military industrial

8:40

complex and some felt that Nick

8:43

should be held to a standard that we don't hold

8:45

Others Linux distributions too and that is that they should

8:47

have no involvement with any military at all Which

8:50

in just as provokes a giant conversation and discussion

8:52

and when you don't have proper moderation and governance

8:54

In place it starts going in all kinds of

8:56

sideways Yeah, that kind of hits on it right

8:58

there right when you when you don't really have a framework for how to

9:00

handle these things and then you do bring in You

9:03

know very heated and contentious issues. That's gonna

9:05

stress those systems that Essentially

9:08

coming together is what provoked that open letter that

9:10

you were referring to Alex indeed

9:12

it was and if you look

9:14

at Nick's con EU which happened last autumn and

9:17

There'll was down as a sponsor for

9:19

that event and was dropped for whatever

9:21

reason But the event that

9:23

we went to in Pasadena Nick's con and

9:25

a the first one North America It

9:28

wasn't dropped. Yeah, I think that led to some folks

9:30

feeling like they weren't listening kind of like look we

9:33

made a big fuss and Now

9:35

you go go back and do it again And the other

9:37

folks were like look they want to give us money and

9:39

we're trying to make this first event in North America Happened

9:41

and we wanted to you know, we'll take all the resources

9:43

we can have and to be clear It's not just money.

9:46

They have people that contribute code and contribute to Nick's as

9:48

well. Absolutely And the

9:50

kind of alternative would be to say no

9:52

to them and then they could just fork

9:54

what they want and Then

9:56

the project gets or the foundation and the

9:58

project gets nothing Right and

10:00

it provokes you can see there's all these rabbit

10:02

hole doors you can open because it provokes the

10:05

conversation of. Should

10:07

the project outwardly take

10:09

an aggressive no military involvement

10:11

stance which is a political

10:13

stance. That has of

10:15

course created all kinds of debates internally some

10:17

of which have led to people

10:19

that are. Longtime contribute

10:21

to the project getting. And

10:24

by moderate by moderation which is another thing you

10:26

may have seen you know if you've been browsing

10:28

social media or watching from afar. People

10:31

getting band or whatever we

10:33

don't hold the Linux kernel itself to that

10:35

standard doing I mean I know

10:37

for a fact that there are huge

10:39

government contracts going through. Enterprise

10:42

Linux vendors as we speak and

10:45

you know so you have the Linux

10:48

kernel being used in all sorts of

10:50

places you have companies massive enterprise Linux

10:52

companies supporting those efforts. And

10:54

yet next to us it's a huge problem it

10:56

doesn't it doesn't compute for me quite.

10:58

Yeah we do kind of celebrate these days I

11:01

mean Microsoft maybe isn't directly a defense director but

11:03

they certainly are a large

11:05

vendor to the military. We've sort

11:07

of like wow look at these contributions from

11:09

Microsoft in the current right and AWS public

11:12

cloud is a thing and they have an

11:14

entirely separate. Government cloud division that's held to

11:17

an entirely separate standard like in

11:19

America at least I think you

11:22

guys said it in Luppert a few months ago that. It's

11:26

just not a reality to ignore that that

11:28

complex exists financially. Yeah

11:31

and this company in

11:33

particular is one of the more

11:35

technologically innovative companies in this space

11:37

and they have a very forward

11:40

thinking technological rnd policy and. This

11:43

goes up all the way to the ceo level

11:45

Palmer lucky is aware of this drama and.

11:48

He paints it as you know political reasons but

11:50

either way it's it's it's what

11:53

we were trying to watch in front of figure out

11:55

is how is this actually

11:58

impacting next the technology. and

12:00

the people that deploy and use it. And

12:03

this community stuff that's going on, is it a

12:05

sideshow? Is it directly

12:07

at the foundation of, I'm saying the metaphorical

12:10

foundation of how Nix is built? What

12:12

impact does this have? It's

12:15

especially hard because there's – I mean what is the

12:17

Nix community, right? You've got

12:19

at least three different logical projects in Nix,

12:21

the language itself, which is kind of where

12:23

the psych stuff was, but then to also Nix packages,

12:25

you have a client community managed package

12:27

repository to Nix OS, the Linux distribution.

12:31

Plus you have people that, you know, are

12:33

you involved with project governance and leadership? Are

12:36

you involved with just making, you know, maintaining

12:38

packages Nix packages? Are you a

12:40

promoter or someone who talks about Nix like we are? Like

12:43

who are the people in these roles? How do they

12:45

interact? And it's just hard to judge, especially when you're

12:47

relatively new. And that,

12:49

what you just articulated there was, indicate

12:52

wider issues with the

12:55

vacuum of leadership that Elko has

12:58

had to date. The

13:00

phrase benevolent dictator for life would

13:03

imply that he has been incredibly forceful

13:05

in a Linus Torvald kind of way

13:07

over the project and been

13:10

aggressive towards people and maybe

13:12

that's the case behind closed doors. I don't know

13:14

on the details of that, but the

13:17

very fact that we have Nix packages

13:19

and Nix language and Nix OS all

13:21

called Nix, it

13:23

speaks to like just something isn't quite

13:25

right in the leadership space along with

13:27

the whole flakes thing. I

13:29

don't know. But to me, it just highlights. Maybe

13:31

that's been an issue for a lot longer than maybe

13:34

we realized. We had an opportunity

13:36

to meet Elko at NixCon,

13:38

and he seemed like a

13:42

gentle person who just wants to focus on the

13:44

tech. Agree. And

13:46

I don't think he wants to be a dictator,

13:48

and I think that's why he was probably either

13:51

convinced or agreed or decided to step down. Yeah,

13:54

part of the complaint seemed to be both

13:56

as much like maybe sporadic versions of action

13:58

and decisions made, and then I'll... a lot

14:00

of times maybe people felt actually should have

14:02

been taken and listened. And then

14:04

you also have that Nix is like you mentioned earlier Wes,

14:06

it's at this part of its

14:08

life cycle where commercialization is beginning to become

14:10

possible. So we have the permanent systems and

14:12

kind of a community around them and Flox

14:15

and a community around them and they

14:17

also employ Elko and

14:19

Graham and they also

14:21

you know Flox employs Ron who works on the

14:24

foundation. Like there are these kind of cross

14:27

ties and some people would argue they

14:30

are conflicts of interest but to me they look

14:32

more like a nascent

14:34

ecosystem that is being built by

14:37

companies and by people that are passionate about it. And

14:40

you have these two different views, you have

14:43

this kind of this commercial view, this sort

14:45

of practical view where it's okay to work with

14:47

companies like Adderall or whatever it is and

14:49

it's okay to you know do those types of

14:52

engagements. And then you also then you have the

14:54

kind of freedom community side that

14:56

very much wants to go by moral ideals

14:58

and very outwardly say this

15:01

project will only engage with these types of

15:03

people, with these political biases, with you

15:05

know these types of stances we

15:07

consider military work you know anti-moral. And we

15:10

are going to outwardly state all that and

15:12

that's what we want the project to be and it feels like there is

15:14

sort of like this collision of two forces

15:17

even if the commercial interests aren't inherently the opposite

15:19

of some of these morals. In fact I think

15:21

they share some of them, in fact I think

15:23

that's why the moderation team is able to have

15:26

the breadth and operation they do is because I

15:28

believe a lot of these people share some of

15:30

the same moral understanding

15:33

but there are just still kind

15:35

of like two sides of a magnet here where there is

15:37

the commercial side and the community side that seems to want

15:39

to be very ideal and very pure. And

15:42

let's not ignore the issue of

15:44

who decides what's okay

15:47

and what's not. Like okay, and there

15:49

is very clearly a military contractor that's

15:51

one of their core businesses but

15:53

what about companies that are in a more grey area

15:56

are just a supplier to you know

15:59

say a military contractor. but they themselves

16:01

are not a military company. Like, where

16:04

does that line get drawn and who draws it? And

16:06

it's just a whole can of worms. I

16:09

don't understand why the sponsorship was

16:11

up for debate because it

16:13

seems like when we articulate the things that the

16:15

foundation is responsible for, which is not a great

16:17

number of things, sponsorships

16:20

and events are particularly

16:22

one of the things that are articulated in their

16:24

purvey. So it seems like

16:26

it's a subtle issue if the foundation wants to engage

16:28

with the sponsor. Yeah, I think

16:30

that's the legal interpretation, but I think this is

16:32

the community saying we don't feel represented by the

16:35

foundation making these choices. Okay, yeah.

16:38

I do wonder if this is like the larger sign

16:40

of, something we've seen with the Linux kernel is the

16:42

era where it's dominated by

16:44

folks who are primarily either

16:46

just passionate about it or hobbyists or

16:49

folks doing it. I believe this is

16:51

the future and I'm gonna work on it in extra time to, as

16:54

you're talking about the- That was the transition I

16:56

was attempting to articulate. The commercial era where you're,

16:58

right now a lot of the people employed are

17:00

obviously also passionate about Nix, but you start to

17:02

have a little more of that, while we are

17:04

advancing both the business interest and also this is

17:07

something I'm doing professionally and in my daytime working

17:09

mode and those

17:11

are different goals sometimes and

17:13

different mindsets that now have to interact.

17:15

Yeah, this splintering that we've seen recently,

17:18

really to me feels like just the tip of

17:20

the iceberg. These fishes must run

17:23

pretty deep for some folks. I

17:25

will say that my experience contributing to the next

17:28

project, I've done one package to

17:30

Nix packages, so I'm hardly up

17:32

there in the top echelons of contributions,

17:34

but it was very welcoming. I

17:37

felt very welcome. The initial

17:39

process of opening a PR and people

17:41

guiding me through it was great. The

17:43

support I got in the NixOS and

17:46

NixNerd's JB channels on Matrix

17:48

was top tier. So

17:52

for me personally, the entry point

17:54

to being a contributor to Nix

17:56

was fine. I Felt perfectly

17:58

safe and welcomed. What? What

18:00

concerns me a little bit is your

18:02

qualifications Now match some of the people

18:05

that are moderating other folks that have

18:07

been much more significant contributors out of

18:09

the project. Ah, there are

18:11

people that have literally one or two contributions

18:13

in total. Some of them are from within

18:15

the last thirty days. To that way they

18:17

can participate in the Zyl Up instance and

18:19

participate in this new governance structure. And I

18:21

kind of am a little Sus. Of.

18:23

Their intentions and it looks like some of them are

18:25

going to be involved in the next steps moving forward.

18:29

And some people the habit like the release

18:31

manager. Nick. So as has no

18:33

release manager right now. While.

18:35

Because the current release manager right for

18:37

release was moderated out for a pattern

18:40

of behavior. That. Kind of behavior

18:42

is concerning to me. And I

18:44

don't necessarily think that's been resolved. But.

18:47

You. Know, I mean I wanna hear on the

18:49

outside of it. I. Am as

18:52

just as as somebody who's consuming and producing

18:54

like the end product, not the actual product.

18:57

I. Did I don't know if I can probably make

18:59

that judgment a d Say your fear that the project

19:01

is gonna be overrun by these folks? That. As

19:04

he as he put it into the gym experience and.

19:07

Maybe. Some emotional maturity if we would

19:09

say quote some things from the open

19:11

letter perhaps? Just. And just in general

19:13

the objectivity required to be at the wheel. I

19:15

think all of these things we talked about so

19:18

far reads them. Just. From a

19:20

lack of clear, authoritative leadership yeah, I'm

19:22

I'm still struggling to understand how much

19:24

it really matters, right? Like we can

19:27

continue to update or next systems. Yeah.

19:29

I mean they can be question or out

19:31

the impact as we certainly seen. You know

19:33

many prominent knicks are folks leave her change

19:35

their involvement or. Question. What their involvement

19:38

will be. But right? I think it's hard to appreciate the

19:40

other ones that have. You know either

19:42

quiet quietly are not quietly voiced, continued support

19:44

an an outstanding continue to work or even

19:46

just pump the brakes that nixes at week.

19:49

We felt it, we set off the scale

19:51

this is knicks moment in the sun and

19:53

he we are pumping the brakes a little

19:55

bit you know collectively saying well as to

19:57

see how the shakes out and it's entire

20:00

the the wrong moment I would imagine for.

20:02

Such. Fishes to become. Public.

20:05

There might be part of what's been bothering me. You might

20:08

be onto it a little bit. Is a

20:10

seems a little self destructive? yeah just at

20:12

the at the wrong moment. but again I

20:14

don't think like it really doesn't change to

20:16

thesis, it doesn't really change her He says

20:18

of this is the right way to build

20:20

a system. And doesn't

20:22

really change the thesis that this. Has.

20:24

A vast package repository that you can then

20:27

and saw the next package manager on just

20:29

about every O S and have access to

20:31

all of this communities work. And.

20:33

Then start building your own stuff immediately. Like none

20:35

of that changes because of any of this. And.

20:37

You know than the next project at this

20:40

point with because of some of that success

20:42

in I think it is had Had this

20:44

hit a certain level where there's enough and

20:46

farm an illness shared interests that it isn't

20:49

necessarily strictly defined by. Sets.

20:51

Of some of these from the people they are easier to

20:53

have been huge. Contributor: Some of them

20:55

and big influences, but it also. There's.

20:57

There's enough energy now. I think to the next

20:59

can continue to evolve. Whether. That is with

21:01

some compatible for it's or not but you know

21:04

others can be a lot of directions. that term

21:06

stuff continues to get. Developed. In a.

21:08

Success. Away and of course are open questions

21:10

we'll see about. Maybe. The next couple

21:13

next O S releases. What what does you

21:15

know Weiss look like after this new assemblies

21:17

established. And. It with the moderation in

21:19

particular has been a lot of upset on

21:21

the how many areas and there's been apologies

21:24

from the moderation team. It it like there's

21:26

some recognition at least that. This.

21:28

Is all been handled as a kind of sloppily

21:30

and not in the way that a lot of

21:32

the good intention folks really wanted us to have

21:34

to go down. But. There's kind of

21:36

sticking with the plan. There are definitely. And

21:39

if there's some folks on on there, some way

21:41

that people have questions about this, other folks that

21:43

are sort of beyond beyond the pale that everyone

21:45

seems to agree are. You. Know good

21:47

intentions and and with the best intentions of

21:49

next at heart. So

21:52

I think that's lot reason to think that. Things.

21:54

Might continue. Just. Glider.

22:00

Slash Unplugged. You probably heard me talk about Clyde,

22:02

because I think it's a tool that would have

22:04

changed the directory of my career, but you might

22:06

not have heard. They. Were just acquired

22:08

by one password and it's it's a big

22:10

deal. They're advancing their mission to make user

22:12

focus security the norm. Not. The

22:14

exception. These. Two companies really have

22:16

led the industry in creating cyber security solutions

22:19

to put users first and for over a

22:21

year. Clyde. Device Trust has helped

22:23

companies with octa. Is your the only known

22:25

secure devices can access their data. But.

22:28

Now they're doing it as part of one password.

22:30

So if you've got oct and you been mean

22:32

it's check out Live! There was a great time.

22:35

And Clyde comes with a library of prebuilt

22:37

device posture checks and you can read your

22:39

own custom checked Said you need to win

22:42

something that might compel you comes up. Like.

22:44

Of you Exit bless You can use

22:46

Clyde on devices the don't have them

22:49

Dm like your linux fleet like contractor

22:51

Devices are like every B Y O

22:53

D phone, tablet or laptop that comes

22:55

into your company. And. Clyde

22:57

gives you a single pane of glass to

22:59

manage all of it. Now collide is part

23:01

of one password. They're only getting better to

23:03

go. Check him out and support the show.

23:05

Got a collide.com/on plug. That's. K

23:08

O L id.com/unplugged to learn and

23:10

watch a demo today. It's great

23:12

what sport the show and see

23:14

how the magic of collide could

23:17

work for ukolide.com/on plug. That's

23:20

collide.com/and. To.

23:26

Try to gets more perspective on a

23:28

recent developments. Reached out to a Gram

23:30

Christensen to foundered Term It Systems and

23:32

you He had a bit of an

23:35

email fans because. He. I wanted

23:37

to ask Ram a couple of just

23:39

high level points because he's been involved

23:41

for very long time. You know he's

23:43

been sitting next to Alco as they've

23:45

made some of these decisions, no doubt.

23:48

And. i ask graham on the community self governing

23:50

what what is his point of you and how that's

23:52

functioning right now because so far it's been mostly hands

23:54

off for that from their experience at may be worth

23:56

mentioning real quick we also reached out to number of

23:59

other folks on Many, you know, have been

24:01

involved in many different capacities and many

24:03

of them declined not to comment. Yes. In

24:06

fact, Determinate Systems is really the only group

24:08

that was willing to go on the record.

24:10

I had multiple conversations with people that then

24:12

refused to go on the record. So we

24:15

do really appreciate Graham actually responding. Graham's

24:18

first answered when I asked what he, you know, what

24:20

his point of view on how the community is currently

24:22

self-governing. He said, quote, the NICS community

24:24

is and has long been a collaborative group

24:26

and the people in it have done a

24:29

great job self-regulating. The results and

24:31

the growth and health of the project are the

24:33

best evidence of this. Like every

24:35

successful organization, it has reached a point where

24:37

a new level of structure and guidance is

24:40

needed to scale and to meet the needs

24:42

of an increasingly diverse set of participants. This

24:46

is why we are seeing and facilitating the

24:48

changes that are now underway. And

24:51

the foundation has been facilitating those. So

24:53

I had a follow-up question that says, does

24:55

Determinate Systems success depend on the

24:58

NICS community? And

25:00

if it does, does that mean that

25:02

many months of dysfunction has been bad for

25:04

Determinate Systems? Graham responded

25:06

that Determinate Systems and the NICS

25:08

community are inextricably intertwined and

25:10

healthily symbiotic and always will be. We

25:13

now see a period of growth in which necessary changes

25:15

are being made on both sides. These

25:18

changes will benefit both the NICS community

25:20

and Determinate Systems together and independently. I

25:23

do wonder, I could see either version. Do

25:25

things kind of stay

25:27

at a boil throughout, let's say,

25:29

the summer and into the fall? That's one

25:32

version of like, oh, this continues to be

25:34

very serious. Or do things kind of, maybe

25:36

there's little boil-ups here and there, but things

25:39

enter another period of growth

25:41

and relative stability. I

25:43

think it depends on the intentions of those involved. What do

25:45

you think, Alex? I think it's

25:48

interesting that Elko, by the

25:50

way, is a co-founder, or

25:52

kind of. Well, that's a whole controversy

25:54

in and of itself, isn't it? Is

25:56

that Elko's involved with Determinate Systems and

25:59

Was his... Involvement with the

26:01

company disclosed. At

26:03

the perfect opportunity. Perfect time for him

26:05

or for next. Oh, I was one

26:08

of the things pointed out in the

26:10

open letter at an Alka risk that

26:12

involved with to terminate systems as of

26:14

today. And but I do

26:17

think that. It. As a project

26:19

Next need something like Determined Systems to

26:21

push it forward in the same way

26:23

that Linux did with Canonical and Red

26:25

Hat back in the day. like he

26:28

just that. And of course Susie. Of

26:30

course it needs those. It's.

26:33

Just nice that leadership I keep coming back to

26:35

as we talk in a thing it just needs

26:37

that but pair of hands to grab by the

26:39

scruff When I can say yes, for example, we

26:41

are going to do flakes and. That's

26:44

just how it's gonna be and then

26:46

that means everybody can focus their efforts

26:48

around a certain things a certain set

26:50

of to ring and build the documentation

26:52

the everybody says is lacking in certain

26:55

areas around that to and increase of

26:57

option and ultimately meet the end goals

26:59

of the project. You know

27:01

another way to maybe frame it? Would.

27:04

Be correction because when I came to

27:06

understand having conversations with the folks are

27:08

determined systems is. There. Is

27:10

a lot of areas where next

27:13

doesn't work rate in a large

27:15

enterprise development model. And

27:17

there is a lot of value that a

27:19

company like to terminate. Systems can add to

27:22

make next work better in your work environments

27:24

and to make knicks work with your existing

27:26

Dev Ops work flow. And

27:28

not some sort of brand new technology that

27:31

the next person as to convince. Everyone.

27:33

At work to go adopt. Because. If

27:35

you go with their system you can. Just if

27:37

you get hub you can use. The. Determined

27:40

Systems Quite a workflow model. And.

27:42

So they're trying to and there's all these

27:44

things they do like with their magic cash

27:46

and the waited they address next store permissions.

27:48

In all of this, they're trying to solve

27:50

problems for people they're developing with Next at

27:52

scale and there's nobody that really does that.

27:55

And. In it's not necessarily process leadership, but

27:57

it's definitely cure ration and eight. Is

27:59

l go your he He wrote the white paper

28:02

and then you know if they create this and

28:04

then he later on works at a company that

28:06

can cure eight. And. Provision sister a system

28:08

like this that is useful in the enterprise. More

28:10

power to up with. That should be the go

28:13

to success story all over Open Source. I think

28:15

it's a damn shame we don't see more of

28:17

it. And free software? We really should. Because.

28:20

It's all out there. It's free. And

28:22

you can see they are. They're not. They're

28:24

not grabbing this as an opportunity to seize

28:26

control. This. If there was another

28:28

scenario, Determined Systems could have

28:31

used this as an opportunity to seize control

28:33

of next in the next community. Ah,

28:35

but instead, we actually saw them step back more.

28:39

And. Defer to the community

28:41

and defer to the foundation. To.

28:44

It's they have some of all that

28:46

but I think it's only appropriate process

28:48

which to me perhaps showed the a

28:50

original accusation of being at a benevolent

28:52

dictator was. Entirely. Not.

28:54

Anything that Elko was interested in whatsoever

28:57

because his. His. Stepping

28:59

down happens. Pretty.

29:01

Quickly after that letter was almost like

29:03

you ready internalized ingested it. Spent.

29:05

A week or two within them was like. Yeah, no

29:07

I don't. I don't really want

29:09

to do that. A gram had a

29:12

lot to say. I thought he spoke really

29:14

eloquently about how. The. Community Work

29:16

Together I wrote it's funny. About.

29:19

Next how the boundaries of the project and be unclear

29:21

to users. When. I was knew I had

29:23

a hard time knowing if I needed to read the

29:25

Knicks manual or next packages or the next oh as

29:27

manual to answer question. Is. Still true but

29:29

it's grown now. We have the next Darwin and

29:31

Home Manager in the whole suite of excellence offer

29:34

from the next community organization I get help. People.

29:36

On the internet occasionally talk about inscrutable airs

29:39

or broken behavior in Next When the Knicks

29:41

the project has nothing to do with it

29:43

actually in the issue. Tensile.

29:45

I solely on one of these projects. Similarly, folks will

29:47

say the same thing when they run Next, when they

29:49

actually mean next O S. collectively.

29:51

Whether we like it or not, these things

29:53

are next and the community is essential and

29:55

irreplaceable. The collective burden carried by the volunteers

29:58

who contribute to the project is as. astronomical

30:01

and watching Nick's packages continue to be the

30:03

best package repository on the planet is truly

30:05

a marvel Completely agree. I'll

30:07

link to his entire email in the show notes

30:09

if you're curious I thought it was

30:11

well written and a good response to my questions a few more

30:13

questions I'd asked him in there and

30:16

I get the sense that They're

30:18

gonna just trust the process and the work continues

30:20

from their perspective and that's

30:22

sort of how I feel about it, too is Well,

30:25

just let the process work out and Just

30:28

continue to get the work done seems like

30:30

there's enough hands. There's enough interested folks There are

30:32

people with financial backing There's people with you know

30:34

who've now deployed Nick's in a lot of scenarios

30:36

and have committed some of their business or their

30:38

projects to it that There's just a

30:40

lot of people I think that are willing to help

30:43

out and maybe take take the reins where needed even

30:45

if there's Some growing pains to do so. Yeah

30:47

and Boost in if you think we've

30:49

missed something in our analysis If

30:52

you think there's a bit that we left out that is important

30:54

for people understand also include that as

30:56

well I was I will say that Wes

30:58

mentioned briefly about forking the project

31:00

one of the I

31:02

want to say demands in that original open letter

31:04

was If you don't comply

31:06

with our demands, this was the general sentiment. Anyway, if

31:08

you don't comply with our demands We're gonna fork the

31:11

project and yeah, yada. Yada. Yada Since

31:14

that's written there have been a couple of

31:16

forks popped up. What is called licks l

31:18

ix Another one is called orcs

31:21

orcs a UX computer so

31:23

there are a couple of forks have happened already and We

31:27

know from Linux history that this bifurcation

31:29

of effort will eventually sort itself

31:31

out one way or another whether it's one

31:33

Of these new projects becomes the new de

31:36

facto standard or just fizzles out.

31:38

I mean look at Debbie and in dev one for

31:40

example All

31:42

right, please adjust your seats into the

31:45

upright position as we go a little

31:47

bit further up into actually using nix

31:49

and I want to

31:51

share a setup that I have been extremely satisfied

31:53

with and not gonna blow

31:55

anybody away But it is a combination of

31:58

engine X ACME and nix OS the just

32:00

sing sweet, sweet music to

32:02

me. And on my little

32:04

home system, I've played

32:06

with various ways of doing port forwarding.

32:09

I started with traffic on my ODROID,

32:11

and then I actually switched over to

32:14

Nginx on NixOS, because it

32:16

was so, so simple. Yeah,

32:18

the module is pretty darn nice. I will

32:20

link my config, and

32:23

I think for each host

32:25

that I'm doing a reverse proxy for,

32:27

it's like five lines of

32:30

Nix code. And what it does is

32:32

it goes out and it gets an

32:34

SSL cert. It sets up port forwarding,

32:36

and it does it all for me

32:39

when I just build the config, all

32:41

on the backend. There's nothing

32:43

particularly groundbreaking and new about this, but

32:46

the repeatability of it is ridiculous.

32:49

You just, when you wanna add a new host, you

32:51

just highlight those five lines in your

32:53

NixOS config, tweak the name, tweak

32:56

the port, and then rebuild,

32:58

and you now have Nginx reset

33:00

up again, all fully configured. It

33:02

does all of the cert stuff

33:05

with Lego, right? Yep, Lego under

33:07

the hood. And of course, a whole bunch of system

33:09

T setup, as we've said, NixOS ends up being the

33:12

super duper system T distro in some ways. Do

33:15

you think you could give a real, just brief

33:18

high level overview of what it's doing on

33:20

the backend when I'm actually building? So you tore into it

33:22

a little bit, the script that it's actually executing. Yeah,

33:25

well, it's got Lego to do ACME and talk, or

33:29

whatever your DNS provider is, or do stuff, I guess, with

33:31

the HTTP challenge, if you wanna go that way. So

33:34

I think it mostly just sets up the system T

33:36

timer and service that can go have Lego run on

33:38

this Google, the check

33:40

when your cert expires, go get a new one when

33:42

it needs to. And then of course, you can wire

33:45

it together with system T so that when that happens,

33:47

it can tell Nginx to reload the certs. It's

33:49

more like the system T and the NixOS stuff prepare

33:52

so nicely, because you've got stuff happening at build

33:54

time in the Nixiverse, and

33:57

then system T keeps adding all of these

33:59

handy runtime options. that you can configure

34:01

from your config during build. And

34:04

then it sort of just ships them off and systemd

34:06

actually does the handles executing the cron

34:08

functionality of like, oh yeah, hey Lego, you're gonna

34:10

need to run again. Yeah, by the time systemd

34:12

gets the information, it's got all your stuff filled

34:14

out because you put it in your next config

34:16

and the next config generated that output. And

34:19

it's just, it's so solid and

34:22

so slick and you solve it once

34:24

and it's done. These modules are

34:26

really, they are just so

34:28

slick when they work. And

34:30

I'm reminded of in

34:33

the Ansible world at least, yeah, here I go

34:35

with Ansible, is Ansible

34:37

Galaxy. This was supposed to be what Ansible Galaxy was

34:39

doing for people. It was supposed to be a bunch

34:41

of predetermined building blocks that

34:43

you include into your playbook that

34:45

spits out a fully configured system

34:48

at the end. But the

34:50

difference with Nix is the fact that

34:52

you can switch out the entire Simlink

34:54

tree that forms your NixOS system as

34:57

easily as if you could switch out

34:59

a kernel in Grub. It's

35:02

just amazing, really, technically. And

35:05

filling out a five line

35:07

NixOS config to me just seems so

35:09

much simpler than actually configuring Nginx, it's

35:11

funny. You know, I

35:14

no longer configure Nginx directly. I configure it

35:16

through Nix config and Nix config is simple

35:18

to read and repeat and you do it

35:20

with five lines. And then

35:22

it does everything else for you. You know what's funny

35:25

is initially that put me off the project, you know,

35:27

the air quotes, the Nix way. I think this

35:30

was when you were first talking about it and I was

35:32

sort of sat over here like a bit of a Luddite

35:34

going, yeah, nah, not for me, bro. And

35:36

then you wouldn't stop talking about it for years. And

35:39

I was like, you know, okay, this time I need

35:41

to try it again. I think it was while Brent

35:43

was with me for that spring a couple of years

35:45

ago, he forced me to pull out a Raspberry Pi

35:47

and put Nix on it. And we tried it that

35:50

evening and I was like, you know

35:52

what, this single configuration file

35:54

is so elegant and so

35:56

straightforward. You know, I could give

35:58

this to my wife who's not. Linux Node

36:00

and say right! Just put this one

36:02

file, type this one command and your

36:04

entire system is done. In a. Is

36:07

just. It's just beautiful. Oh

36:14

yeah right, This is slots always. Felt

36:19

his friends not here. I'll mention the haven't

36:22

tried a new podcast app. Recently got a

36:24

new podcast app Zoc com. Try out the

36:26

new fountain or pod verse were now live

36:28

in the app on Sundays seat and listen

36:31

either once we post or when we're screaming

36:33

at all to be right there you don't

36:35

pending notification when the stream has been scheduled

36:38

is really really like a which is what

36:40

you tell me. The fountain recently got back

36:42

the ability to were you can. Use it.

36:44

Just have said boosts with a Qr code.

36:46

Even if you are rather have a found

36:49

account you can do it from the south

36:51

and west. Let's say to go to Fountain.fm

36:53

and you look for linux unplugged. You can

36:55

actually boost their and you don't even have

36:57

to use the app or switch. He just

36:59

need anything that supports lightning like striker tapper

37:02

anything in a thank you for the sports

37:04

and thank you. And

37:06

of those with. And

37:14

I think we're going to try something new

37:16

on the boost today. And

37:19

now it is time for new

37:22

post. Ah, No sound

37:24

effects was ah arm except for

37:26

the biologist. But. No of this and

37:28

and let us know. What? To think we want

37:30

to hear your feedback. Is you know often

37:32

people will kvetch about the sound effects. I.

37:35

Don't fly without without doing him. But. I

37:37

think it adds to the fund some time so we want to get your

37:39

feedback so we're going to try it this week. With. The

37:41

exception of a bollard because priests author comes

37:43

in with seventy thousand says. Boosting

37:49

to Say No other Linux podcast has covered

37:51

all the recent events like yours. As.

37:54

A new linux user gave me a better picture of

37:56

the wider community. so thank you! Are.

37:58

But if you could only do if you could

38:00

only do one next year, which would you choose?

38:03

Ah, Ah

38:05

ah, you're asking me to pick a

38:08

favorite fast Now I think if if

38:10

are several. I love all my children.

38:13

I'm a the selfishly say that if

38:15

there's another next car and co located

38:17

with scale. and might tip. How

38:20

do you say no to that, right? And we love

38:22

linux us north. Why do. You have

38:24

a keep. The commute for you boys is is tough

38:26

but yeah linux west northwest is pretty good. Dang

38:29

dang dang it. I'll. Have

38:31

to go it were remix con as though probably

38:33

the least for the next year. So does gonna

38:35

be some the watch? Maybe maybe. There is

38:37

another one I want to try. Casey Dc

38:39

in Kansas which is a Swiss. We're pretty

38:42

good open source. Com. Ah, Kansas

38:44

meet up on at Asda. Hybrid.

38:47

Sarcasm comes in with forty two

38:49

thousand sets. Oh with the tail

38:51

skill question. Perfect. I'm going

38:53

to hear about your user authentication

38:55

retail scale. It's really easy

38:57

to get up and running with get hub

39:00

google cetera, but he end up tying yourself

39:02

to one of these third parties and this

39:04

no way to change later on. The.

39:06

Sleeves: A custom Oh I D C Solution.

39:09

But that seems a little daunting.

39:11

Thoughts: A custom oh I D C

39:14

solution Be like a custom identity provider.

39:16

Yeah, Yeah. Thought about rolling my

39:18

own. So I'm get this is a

39:20

point when going to put lincoln center it's and said he to

39:22

read the. As manual or

39:24

T F M M, there is a

39:27

a link on the task at augmentation.

39:29

Talk about signing up with an email

39:31

address and specifically it calls out White

39:34

House Get doesn't do that. By design,

39:36

Tesco is not an identity provider. There

39:38

are no tail scale passwords by using

39:41

external providers. We think it's not any

39:43

more secure than an email and password

39:45

that we would be in charge of,

39:47

but it also allows us to automatically

39:50

rotate connection keys, encryption keys, and follow

39:52

security policy set by. your team for

39:54

multi factor and so much more

39:56

i will say also it is

39:58

possible to chain identity providers

40:00

for almost all of the

40:03

major ones that are supported

40:05

with the exception of GitHub

40:07

and or Apple. I didn't

40:09

realize Apple was one. Interesting. See

40:12

for me it always made sense to just use our Google app

40:14

stuff because we use that for the back end email. That

40:16

always just kind of made sense for me. But that's a

40:18

good question. Yeah and you know it does kind of make

40:20

sense too that for I think a lot of folks in

40:23

some of the value from tail scale is that convenience. So

40:25

having those super convenient options is there and of course there's

40:27

a whole bunch of crazy wire guard mesh

40:29

solutions out there or things like Nebula if you

40:31

want to go totally rolling your own you don't

40:33

want to be tied to any third party. I

40:35

would agree rolling your own OIDC solution might

40:38

be a little daunting because we were

40:40

talking about this in self hosted just

40:42

this week with a self hosted bitwarden

40:44

versus a vaultwarden for example. Like there

40:46

are just certain pieces of infrastructure that

40:48

just need to always be up and

40:51

with the best will in the world we all know that self hosting

40:54

sometimes the number of nines is less

40:56

than we would like in terms of

40:59

availability. So yeah

41:01

just be careful with that one. Yeah

41:04

it's a tough one. I think it's easy. It's

41:06

easy if you're a business or an enterprise.

41:09

It's a little bit harder. Like you just have to ask yourself

41:11

okay which one do I want to go with or do

41:13

I want to stand up my own if you're a home lover. Sam

41:16

Bauer comes in with 31,000 sets. First

41:18

time boost. Hey Sam right on. Good

41:21

job. Well done sir. Thank

41:23

you for introducing me to NixOS. P.S.

41:25

I listen at 1.5X. I am

41:27

loving these speed reports. Me too. Thank you everyone boosting

41:30

it. Yeah I want more speed reports. 1.5 is that's

41:34

about at the max of my willingness

41:36

to listen. Yeah.

41:38

I'll do like 1.5 for a lecture or

41:41

like if we're gonna cover a talk or something

41:43

and we're looking for clips. Yeah it's two hours

41:45

long. Yeah I gotta. Yeah I'll

41:47

do it. I'll do I'll even do I'll even bump

41:50

it up a little bit. 1.5

41:52

is maximum comfortable listening for me.

41:55

Oh we got a five boost pack from our pal Gene

41:57

Bean. Oh look at that pack 9,300. $240

42:01

total hey gene well genes reporting in

42:03

that Bought a regular

42:05

Anna CMOS battery for an

42:07

old XPS laptop from parts people calm parts

42:10

dash people calm. That's right All right, so

42:12

check them out for your parts need if

42:14

you're trying to make that old Sputnik Stay

42:17

alive they got they got stuff for Dells right

42:19

here on the front of the page XPS laptop

42:21

I'm already there. I know we're not

42:23

doing effects today, but it's probably worth pointing out that

42:25

all of jeans They're either elite sets or a row

42:27

of ducks. Okay, you made it right. We want some

42:29

ducks, right? Don't we can we do the ducks? I

42:32

think Jean earned it Yeah,

42:34

Jane deserves the ducks. I'm sorry. No, I said

42:36

no sound effects Love

42:38

those ducks and then jeans just reporting in with

42:40

stuff One X listener

42:42

always okay Fast

42:44

fetch fan which is sort of in response

42:47

to talking about neo fetch go away fast

42:49

plus one to fast fetch Orientation

42:51

lock is off 99.9% of the time for me Yeah,

42:57

um, oh he's on iOS. I bet yeah,

42:59

that's that's more common on iOS I think

43:01

I'm willing to bet that I don't mean

43:04

to be controversial here But I

43:06

think Android users need to lean on

43:08

orientation lock a lot more than iOS

43:10

users because first of all There's

43:12

no like there's no Sideways mode

43:14

for the home screen right so there's just less

43:16

scenarios where your screens flow. It's actually going to

43:19

yeah And then the last

43:21

boost from Jean just to say I really enjoyed the coverage

43:23

of Red Hat Summit Now to go read

43:25

up about image mode. Thank you You

43:27

know I always expect the event coverage to get

43:29

the least amount of boost because there's not a

43:31

lot to comment on But

43:34

yet on the backside it takes so

43:36

much damn work that it's

43:38

like from a value point like we really hustle

43:40

hard So I appreciate the

43:43

value there Jean Chrisia comes

43:45

in with space balls boost one two

43:47

three four five sats Which

43:50

is the combination on my luggage and they write

43:52

I listen at 1.5 times speed when you guys

43:54

really just sound like you look Like

43:56

a bunch you took it you guys sound like you took

43:58

a bunch of Adderall and then start started a podcast, but

44:00

it makes it so that I can consume more podcasts in

44:02

a short period of time. That's

44:05

definitely true if you do the remove silence

44:07

option as well. Yeah, right. Just smash it

44:09

together. Oh, I, you know, as

44:11

an artiste, I feel like the answer

44:13

here is just listening to less podcasts and just listening

44:15

to ours. Actually, I'm just getting in the face of

44:18

truth. No,

44:22

I definitely get it. Thank you. Hey,

44:24

listener, Jeff Busan with 12,345 cents.

44:29

You're bummed I missed joining Mumble with the

44:31

live Drew, that's a lapse up last week.

44:34

One of these days, I will say hello in real

44:36

time. As for the listening

44:38

speed, all JB shows are one X.

44:41

Attaboy. The conversation and speaking cadence is just

44:44

right, but there are some other podcasts I

44:46

enjoy that I listen to at 1.75X. Those

44:52

other hosts just tend to speak too slowly or

44:54

the shows are just too long. JB

44:57

has set the standard for me probably because

44:59

last was the first live action web show

45:01

I watched regularly as a young Linux newbie.

45:04

We got a story out of this too. You know what,

45:06

I feel like we're going to have to go right

45:08

to ludicrous speed. I know I'm breaking my own rule,

45:10

but come on. Come on. So

45:12

when you say no sound effects, it actually means like

45:14

five or so. Yeah. We're just setting

45:16

up the translation. There's no judgment. You know, you can't go

45:19

cold turkeys when I'm discovering. You can't go cold. You got

45:21

me cold sweats over there with you. I

45:23

got the itch and everything. I

45:26

appreciate that Jeff. You

45:28

know, 1.75 though. Whoo!

45:31

That's really something. Big

45:34

Cook 254 comes in with 10,508 sets and this is a reverse zip code boost.

45:40

Reverse? Yep. Yep.

45:43

And the math is real, so that's not a sound effect. Yeah. So

45:46

80501. That's

45:49

a postal code in Boulder

45:51

County, Colorado with the city

45:53

of Longmont. Oh, Longmont. Longmont.

45:55

Hello. Uh, first Linux

45:57

box was a little server with an Intel

45:59

Celeron J. G1820 and

46:02

for get just I don't know it personally, but

46:04

it sounds slow. Yeah, you don't start

46:06

a fast CPU with a G He

46:13

says it's still running today My

46:15

first daily driver is my surface

46:17

pro 7 starting on fedora 37

46:19

workstation and using the Linux dash

46:21

surface kernel Oh Wow, oh this

46:23

this CPU is a beast boys

46:26

Yeah, two cores two threads 2014

46:30

at 2.7 gigahertz. Oh,

46:33

no. Oh, yeah, but that's real

46:35

fun. Mm-hmm Yeah,

46:37

two cores. Well, you'll definitely be using all of

46:39

your cores. You never have to worry about right?

46:41

I'm gonna do another utilization standpoint. It's a very

46:43

efficient CPU. I Recently

46:47

moved to ublue and build my own bootable

46:49

image based on their surface image handy. Yeah

46:52

I build a second image based on their Nvidia

46:54

image from a desktop. Yeah, that's kind of what

46:56

I was talking about Mm-hmm. I even switched my

46:58

steam deck to bazette tile or a bad light

47:00

eyesight Seeing red hat embrace this

47:03

new tech is exciting. I agree. I

47:05

agree. It's nice to see it's nice to see them come along

47:07

with this Some good fundamentals

47:09

in there distro. Sue comes in

47:11

with twelve thousand three hundred and forty

47:14

five. So the combination is one

47:16

two three four five Concerning

47:22

your mention of getting media from your home

47:24

desktop to your Android I've only

47:27

got something for you. All right, tail

47:29

scale has a built-in web-based file server

47:31

No need to install PHP long-running services

47:34

or nix configs I just

47:36

run tail scale serve and then the path

47:38

to the media now when your

47:40

tail that you can just visit your tail scale

47:42

DNS name and get a file list Even

47:45

better using funnel you can make it public if you need to

47:48

Perfect for sharing that one gigabyte video of

47:50

the kids to mom without needing to upload

47:52

anything anywhere Well, she sends the

47:54

heart emoji control C and that server is

47:56

gone This

47:59

is really neat I got a. The around with the the how

48:01

I think this is a relatively new like public featured. As

48:03

yeah I do this a lot where I'm

48:06

at home. I've. Got a

48:08

movie? Here. At the studio. I.

48:10

Have my blu ray copy of War

48:13

Games. We. Watched it last night. oh

48:15

fun And I realized around two o'clock I'm gonna

48:17

want to get war games because it's I get

48:19

it out the full blu ray Mk Vi I'm

48:21

when to get war games or my local media.

48:25

An. Item pulled down about three megabytes

48:27

two point eight megabytes a second on

48:29

the Starlink. So it's gonna

48:31

take a bit to pull down. You know,

48:33

a sixteen gig or eighteen gig Mtv file?

48:36

So. Ah, I. Saw this

48:38

cross my mind this method but I wasn't sure

48:40

how it works so I it's I logged in

48:43

yeah I started as Lg session or whatever it's

48:45

called and just use magic wormhole like I always

48:47

do between the two. yeah I think this Lg

48:49

session still running on both of them flu season

48:51

with the completed magic where most as and still

48:53

be there for the next five years. Is

48:57

my be a little sleep slicker? Brain.

48:59

And L comes in with two thousand

49:01

and one sets. I usually listen at

49:03

one point two five, sometimes one point,

49:06

three, three alone. If a player supports

49:08

a more granular playback speed by one

49:10

point five comprehensive and retention start to

49:12

suffer for me. Listen.

49:15

Is a fine grained this here

49:17

One to five or one three

49:19

surreal. Wow. Brand

49:21

and your dial in that and I

49:23

will say. When. I

49:25

listen at One Five for something that I'm trying

49:27

to remember. Because. It goes faster.

49:30

I actually think my retention as better like it

49:32

forces me to pay attention a little bit more

49:34

eager to do very active listening. Yes, as a

49:36

business. Couldn't do the pod our. Topic.

49:40

Or the See Seasons Three thousand, Four

49:42

Hundred and Sixty nine cents. Listening.

49:45

On one point, one x I mostly listen

49:47

in the car and I'm not in a

49:49

hurry. Ah, I like that

49:51

because I can. we are a little drunk would

49:53

and sober at one one. that's true and ten

49:55

percent per episode menace me A for a little

49:58

drank is not as bad enough. Okay,

50:02

network Rob comes in with one, two, three,

50:04

four, five sats. Just got back

50:06

from a work trip and listening to you guys along the

50:08

way. I normally sat stream, but when I got back, I

50:10

realized the wallet was empty. So here's

50:12

to make up for it with the great value y'all provide.

50:15

To answer your question on playback speed, I stick with

50:17

1X. I like listening to the

50:19

conversation as if I'm with you all. Keep up the great

50:21

work. Thank you, Rob.

50:24

Appreciate that. Moona Knight comes in with 12,345 sats. This

50:29

has been driving me crazy, and I'm

50:31

done staying silent about it. You're

50:34

pronouncing Nixos wrong. It's

50:36

pronounced Nix-o-s like the

50:38

cereal. Oh. If anyone knows

50:40

about pronunciation, it's our boy Chris. Yeah,

50:43

yeah. Nix-o-s. Get

50:45

your daily dose with fortified

50:47

Nix-o-s. On a similar note,

50:50

Tomato, I'm going to say. Tomato comes in with

50:52

a row of ducks. Yeah,

50:55

Tomato. I appreciate

50:57

the inconsistency in pronouncing my handle.

50:59

We've tried. Well, I

51:01

think it might be Fomato then. There

51:04

we go. All right. Also,

51:07

another vote there for covering what's going on with Nix.

51:10

Thank you, sir. Forward Humor came

51:13

in with also another row of ducks. Oh,

51:15

come on, Wes. That was Wes. That

51:17

one snuck in. That was Wes.

51:20

Forward Humor writes, I don't normally listen at

51:22

anything above 1X unless there's a bug that

51:24

starts playing the podcast at 1.2X, which happened.

51:27

Life moves too fast. My favorite moments in the

51:29

week are slowing down and enjoying some Jupiter shows.

51:32

Here's more moments to pause and take a breath and

51:34

admire the good things in life. Forward

51:36

Humor, that's really nice. You know, one

51:38

of the good things in life has been we're actually getting

51:40

some sunshine again. Things are growing.

51:43

This is like the time of year when the Pacific Northwest

51:45

really starts to get pretty. Just got

51:47

to appreciate that. Just go for a little drive if you're

51:49

in the area. Listen to the pod. Um,

51:52

Wes? Oh, it's Morse code.

51:55

It's more off in 1984. Okay,

51:58

I got a translator working. That's

52:00

this translates To

52:03

boost all right so I'll

52:05

be 94 comes in with four thousand

52:07

sets and just simply says Thank

52:10

you, happy appreciate that Morse code. That's

52:12

our first Morse code boost VT

52:14

52 comes in with a row of ducks Already

52:17

those whips win amp is

52:19

going open source in September It

52:23

really whips the long as as I'm so

52:25

glad you had that sound effect ready good

52:28

boy I think I think this is like

52:30

one of the top stories sent into the show this

52:32

week They

52:35

know we care it's awesome How

52:38

long until flat-packed you suppose great question? I'm

52:40

gonna say two days two days Okay, when

52:42

I'm the original AI app by the way,

52:44

you know power That's

52:51

a that's a solid dad joke right there. Thank

52:53

you. I'm very impressed Monkey

52:56

rotter comes in with a row of ducks boosting

52:58

from Phoenix to say how much I appreciate you

53:00

guys I just up to the Jupiter dot party

53:02

awesome and realized I've also saved

53:04

enough sats on fountain to send some ducks

53:07

Well, here you go I've

53:09

only been listening since October But I've learned so

53:11

much from the shows and I finally got the

53:14

courage to ditch windows for Ubuntu back in January

53:16

I haven't looked back. Yeah Congrats.

53:18

Yeah That's

53:20

great Maybe a few

53:22

more months and I'll be dabbling with Nick you

53:25

could always throw nicks on a bunch of that's right Just

53:27

get you know, just double let us know

53:29

how it goes. It's just a K exec away anyways That's

53:32

right. It's not Rotter by the way

53:34

West. Okay monkey otter Where

53:38

did you get an R in there? Okay

53:43

in our last regular boost here from

53:45

torped 5,150

53:48

sats by a poppers This

53:51

past tax season in the US

53:53

I learned you can donate stocks

53:55

to charities They can receive

53:57

the full value of that stock without the

53:59

capital games tax that would occur if

54:01

you sold the stock and then gave the

54:03

proceeds to charity. So I'd

54:06

like to buy stocks in listed

54:08

open source companies and donate them

54:10

to nonprofit open source organizations. Do

54:13

y'all have any suggestions for good picks

54:15

for the former or

54:17

the latter? GameStop? No, just kidding.

54:19

GameStop? I mean

54:21

I can't think of a lot of public

54:24

open source companies. I can obviously think of

54:26

a few examples but I can't think of

54:28

a lot. IBM isn't that? I'm gonna use

54:30

my phone a friend and you phone the boosters maybe

54:32

people can boost it if you had ideas. Yeah, what

54:35

we need is some good and mean tokens. No,

54:37

I'm totally kidding. I know

54:39

obviously there's gonna be IBM and

54:41

you know there's companies they're definitely

54:43

open source adjacent but kind

54:46

of makes me really wonder if

54:48

we could ever see a canonical IPO here in the States

54:50

and see canonical listed on the US

54:52

stock market. That'd be really cool. Raspberry

54:54

Pi is making moves. Yeah,

54:56

that's true. Yeah. Although are they

54:58

open source now? Yeah, pretty

55:00

much. Would you buy stock in them though? No.

55:04

If you listen to the old Chris? The

55:07

old Chris, yeah. He was

55:09

stacking those Raspberry Pis. We're past the

55:12

boost limit but we did get a few more reports

55:14

of various listening speeds in here. You're right, we did

55:16

didn't we? 1.4? 1.5 slash mostly 2x? Jeff

55:23

of the jungle listening at 2x? You don't sound

55:25

stressed, he says. You sound excited. Oh

55:30

my goodness. Sometimes 2x

55:33

from nacho Linux? I'm

55:36

a little surprised by how high these like I expected

55:38

them to be over 1 obviously but I was thinking

55:40

like yeah somewhere between like up to maybe 1.3 maybe

55:42

the 1.5 but between

55:45

1.5 and 2 is well represented. Yeah, 1.5 to 2 is way more represented.

55:47

I see

55:50

a 1.7 in here again. Are

55:52

you all 20? Is anybody

55:54

like 40 listening at 1.7? And

55:56

The only way I can get up to like 1.7 to 2x is... I

56:00

gotta like turn it up slowly. You know I

56:02

can start by just one two and one five

56:04

and I got to chill out there for bit

56:06

like and crank it up but it takes Marietta.

56:09

I. Imagine somebody psychopaths are just jumped in

56:11

the current hidden plate full to X. Yeah,

56:14

not. Analytics justifies it Was you subscribe to

56:16

Thirty Plus podcast. You don't really have a

56:18

choice s way. I'm a I'm I admire

56:20

your endurance. That's impressive he said

56:23

dad Just a really yeah. To.

56:25

Make it to extra town and get the members version

56:27

so it's. Super long, so think everybody

56:29

who booths and we really appreciate it. Had

56:31

twenty eight boosters and we stack two hundred

56:34

and sixty thousand, one hundred and nineteen sets.

56:36

But. We really appreciate your buddy Who Bousson.

56:39

Yeah, not only are you supporting the

56:41

show, but unlike. I any

56:43

other podcast app. The booths also help support

56:45

the developer who creates the app so they

56:47

don't have to come up with his cockamamie

56:49

schemes. They. Get a little bit

56:51

of that. Also, the podcast index does. It's a

56:53

great way to support the podcasting to the community

56:55

way. Also, boosting this here show. We.

56:57

Really appreciate think everybody does that are

57:00

also streams those sets. We.

57:02

Really appreciate you and a shoutout to

57:04

our core contributors. And. Team

57:06

members. You. Don't get a boost in here,

57:08

but we do think of you constantly. West.

57:10

Has a tattoo it says infected but

57:12

it's definitely a pretty sweet test. Was

57:15

tasteful but dies shouldn't pay more than

57:17

fifty bucks for that's that's definitely problems.

57:20

And that's what happens when you are to

57:22

when you're drunk. Or.

57:26

I have a pick for you this week that

57:28

isn't gonna blow your socks off, but one day

57:30

you're going to thank me. You're going to take

57:32

me because it takes our clone. And. It

57:34

puts it into a D T K for gooey. That.

57:37

Just makes it nice and approachable. And.

57:39

You can have multiple different types of our com connections

57:41

I guess is she backup if you're not familiar with

57:44

our clone. It. Had some believe

57:46

it. Yeah, get familiar because it's a

57:48

great tool to move data on the

57:50

all different types of cloud storage from

57:52

like S Three to S Ftp at

57:54

Web Dev, everything individual services as well.

57:57

And. Then What? are what i what

57:59

I'm picking today is RClone Shuttle, which is

58:01

a GUI that sits on top of that

58:03

and you can upload files to any of

58:06

the supported cloud storage providers that RClone can

58:08

talk to. You have

58:10

a column on the left side that

58:12

lists each one of those cloud providers and on the

58:14

right side you can browse that directory in a GUI,

58:16

upload and download files to it. It

58:19

can handle encryption. It can

58:21

open up remote files locally just by double clicking on them, pull

58:23

them down, open them for you. It makes it

58:25

really approachable. Man, it's already packaged

58:27

on FlatHub. It's written in Rust. This is

58:29

a great pick. Yeah, darn you. Thank you.

58:31

You like it? Good. All

58:33

right. I do. I

58:36

got it. Yeah, I just thought, so the back end

58:38

is I've been playing around with RClone a little bit more to

58:41

move data between systems and I just thought, you

58:43

know, what if I wanted to just

58:45

browse that now really simply? And then

58:47

that's how I discovered that. RClone

58:50

Shuttle, yeah, it is on

58:52

FlatHub as well. It's kind of

58:54

a nice way to layer it too, right? You kind

58:56

of get the GUI functionality

58:58

for the task that makes sense, but the core

59:00

tool is still optimized around the command line and

59:02

set up for automation and all kinds of different

59:05

workflows. I'd love your feedback on our

59:07

coverage of the Nix situation. And if you feel like

59:09

there's an area we need to do a little bit

59:11

of follow-up or correction, please do

59:13

let us know. And also

59:16

check out the most recent self-hosted. Alex

59:19

and I got into image getting full

59:21

support by FUTO. So

59:23

they're going full time over there. And

59:25

I know some of you in the audience have been submitting

59:27

that story about image getting full time support. Alex and I

59:29

broke down what's going on over there and a bunch

59:32

of other stuff over at selfhosted.show. If

59:35

I may as well, I was just

59:37

on changelog and friends with Adam over

59:39

at changelog, changelog.com,

59:42

episode 44 under the friends feed. And

59:45

links to what we talked about today will

59:47

be at linuxunplug.com/563. I'd

59:50

love to have you join us live. We do

59:52

it Sundays at noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern. See

59:54

you next week. Same bad time,

59:56

same bad station. And if you

59:59

do have a podcasting, tune in. You can just

1:00:01

listen in your app. Otherwise, join us at JBLive.fm.

1:00:04

And, you know, thanks y'all for being here for

1:00:06

Slackware Week. Yeah, it was a special one. Yeah,

1:00:09

I guess so, right? We

1:00:12

enjoyed it, I think. I'm sure it'll

1:00:14

all come out in the editing, so... I'm

1:00:17

sure they'll sort it out. I bet it was

1:00:19

great. A 12-hour marathon show, of course, about Slackware. It's

1:00:21

going to be edited down to under an hour. It's

1:00:24

unbelievable. I'd love to know what you think, which distro

1:00:26

we should do next. Let us know.

1:00:29

Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of

1:00:31

the Unplugged program. I will see you right back

1:00:33

here next Tuesday. Thank

1:00:59

you.