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requirements and to confirm eligibility for tax

1:02

credits. Hello

1:31

and welcome back to Lore Hammer. That

1:34

podcast you turn on me, you get a

1:37

little sad and lonely. I'm your host, Markino,

1:39

Papa Markino. Welcome boys. We got Trishan. Hey.

1:43

And also join. And me. I'm

1:45

here too. You are. Gene

1:48

Steeler James. Well, welcome back. I'm

1:50

known by many names. Some know me as

1:52

the Mantis Strip Boy. Some

1:55

know me as Gene Steeler Jim. Some know

1:57

me as the Servant of Logar. I

2:01

don't like any of those titles. None of them are

2:03

beneficial to me. All of them I would fight against

2:05

but I guess that's what we get a choice.

2:08

You got a choice. They're all my names. I choose them. Yeah,

2:13

today we are talking Thunder Warriors.

2:15

But before we get into

2:17

that, we got a little bit of housekeeping. We did that

2:19

30 minute promo episode the other week just so we didn't

2:22

have to do 30 minutes before it got to the topic.

2:25

But a little bit of housekeeping. Yeah, welcome to the

2:27

show. If you're watching live for the first time, this

2:29

is kind of crazy. We got all three of our

2:31

faces up. We got a chat room going kind of

2:33

interesting. I

2:38

don't know what to say about it. I want

2:40

somebody to yell at me already. You know, drop

2:42

memes in the chat. That's what I like to

2:44

see. But yeah, everyone's audio so they can just

2:47

jump in whenever. Yeah, exactly.

2:51

Wait, I think I want to listen to them is the thing.

2:53

I think I'm doing this whole pod. We're doing it backwards. Well,

2:56

we'll carry on regardless, I guess. So if you want

2:58

to join the live stream, go check us out on

3:01

Patreon. That's how you can do it. You become a

3:03

member. And then a couple minutes or, you know, half

3:05

hour before the show starts, we send out a link,

3:07

you click on the link. You're in the live stream

3:09

and it's pretty cool. If

3:12

you don't have a couple bucks to throw us, I

3:14

get that. It's all good. The Emperor doesn't forgive you,

3:16

but I do. The episode

3:18

will be coming out on

3:20

like the following Wednesday. So we're going

3:22

back to our biweekly recording schedule Friday

3:24

nights at 830 Central Standard Time. We

3:27

go live and then the following Wednesday,

3:29

the podcast version comes out.

3:33

Listener lore. I've had a lot of people

3:35

say is listener luck coming back to and

3:38

listable or lever left. It was always

3:40

deep in my soul, longing to be

3:42

read. So yeah, no, it's coming back. Me and Gerald are going to

3:44

be heading that off. So if

3:46

you have lore of your army or cool

3:48

campaign that you did or short story, which

3:51

is whatever, man, you can set into lore

3:53

hammer podcast@gmail.com. And then eventually I read it

3:55

on the show. I've read over like probably

3:58

close to 250 different people's stories. stories now.

4:00

It's been a lot. You guys have both been on there with me.

4:04

500. Yeah. I always

4:06

said that was my goal with the listener lore. You don't

4:08

have to be afraid until I hit 500, then I might

4:11

call it quits. So let's get

4:13

there, send it into lorehammerpodcast.com. And the final

4:15

thing before we get into the notes,

4:17

our Discord. It has been active even

4:20

for the last two years that we've been gone. People

4:22

are still modeling and hobbying and posting all their

4:24

stuff. And yeah, it's just a great way to

4:26

connect with any of us ideally. Or

4:29

you can do Facebook, Instagram, or any of that kind

4:31

of stuff. But Discord is definitely the place. Yeah, that's

4:33

where the party is. Yeah,

4:35

it's crazy how much activity there still is in

4:37

there, honestly. Like

4:39

I jumped in and man, it's people are

4:42

bumping in there. Yeah,

4:44

no, it's been a good, good two

4:46

years, even though lorehammer was on a slight

4:48

hiatus there, you know, the community's been very

4:50

active. So that's always, I think that's

4:53

part of why I came back. You know, one too many

4:55

people just that inbox filled up

4:57

of come back, come through

4:59

many threatening letters. Yeah,

5:02

I know where you live. I,

5:05

well, they don't know me where

5:07

I live now. They can pinpoint the Panama and

5:09

that's about it. Come

5:12

stay at my Airbnb. Then

5:14

you'll know exactly where you live. Yeah.

5:17

Yeah, let's jump into this, man. We

5:19

haven't talked 40k in like two years,

5:21

the three of us. We're talking the

5:23

Thunder Warriors. We're

5:25

picking it up right where we kind

5:27

of left off in the story. Our

5:29

last episode was episode on the Emperor.

5:32

And I remember doing it

5:34

and we, the siege of terror books hadn't

5:36

fully come out. They're on like book three or four.

5:39

So I haven't even updated myself on what actually happened

5:41

to the Emperor. I don't know. I really

5:44

don't, but we know what happens.

5:48

Is he going to spoil? You don't even know.

5:50

I don't know. Yeah.

5:53

No, so it's kinda gonna be a nice little, let's,

5:56

let's jump to something that we did do know about him

5:58

and then I can catch up. on what actually happened

6:01

with the Emperor. Kind of how we

6:03

kind of intended things to play out. Let's

6:06

do an Emperor 2 episode after

6:09

this. Yeah man.

6:11

Well okay, since you were talking about messages

6:14

and redos, there's a couple episodes we're redoing

6:16

just because people ask all the time either

6:18

because they're so shitty. They

6:22

wanted more but there would definitely be

6:25

an Imperial Knight episode redo. We had

6:27

bad audio quality for half that episode

6:29

unfortunately. Horse Heresy episode redo, definitely doing

6:31

that. We lost half that episode.

6:35

Space Wolf somehow those sneaky furries

6:37

sneak in again. How did

6:40

we do know like Space Marines

6:42

and yet somehow they

6:44

snuck in? Well this

6:47

is what happened. We're like Lorgham Resending okay so

6:49

we know we have five more episodes. What are

6:51

we gonna do? And Eric's like Space Wolfs. I'm

6:53

like you son of a bitch. So

6:59

Thunder Legion, we're talking about the first

7:02

kind of gene soldiers that the

7:04

Emperor created. The

7:07

Thunder Warriors also known as the

7:09

Thunder Legion or Ligio Cattages

7:11

were the genetically engineered warriors

7:13

of Terra created by the

7:15

Emperor of Mankind to unite

7:17

the homeworld of humanity beneath

7:19

his rule in the 30th

7:21

millennium. The Thunder

7:23

Warriors were elite super soldiers who marched

7:25

alongside the Emperor to conquer Terra during

7:27

the brutal wars of unification. The

7:30

arcane engineering used by the

7:33

Emperor to forge these Thunder Warriors created

7:35

superior fighters yet it

7:37

was less efficient than the methods later employed

7:39

to create the Space Marines. The

7:42

technology of the time was primitive and

7:44

the geneticists mere shadows of what they

7:46

would become were not entirely willing either.

7:50

These pro-dwar stardies were organized into 20 uh

7:53

20 regiments each numbering no more than a few

7:55

hundred warriors although as

7:58

we go through these this number changed a

8:00

little bit, but we'll get to

8:02

that. With

8:04

each regiment personally named by the Emperor,

8:09

the Thunder Warriors raged relentless war

8:11

through the Unification Wars, ultimately uniting

8:13

terror under the iron rule of

8:15

the Emperor for

8:19

the first time in a millennia. According

8:21

to Grimm legend, all the Thunder Warriors

8:24

met their end during the final cataclysmic

8:26

battle of the Unification Wars at the

8:28

Battle of Mount Ararat. Yeah,

8:31

so the Thunder Warriors are

8:34

kind of interesting because there's

8:36

a couple words I intentionally

8:38

used here like arcane engineering

8:40

and geneticists. They got this

8:42

combination of science and magic.

8:45

Yeah. Yeah.

8:48

Yeah. They're not quite

8:50

like the space marines. Yeah,

8:53

they're just weird. There's something different altogether.

8:56

And the interesting thing

8:58

too is the thing that they're not entirely

9:00

willing. So some of them are like, kidnapped

9:03

or, yeah, I

9:05

don't know, just like picked up from

9:08

somewhere and forced it and drafted

9:10

into becoming these monsters. Yeah.

9:14

And they're not like space marines where they

9:16

go on there and go all that hypno

9:18

indoctrination and all that kind of stuff beforehand

9:20

either. So yeah, they're very different in that

9:22

way too. Yeah, there is like a little bit more

9:25

of an indication to

9:27

that. They're not the

9:30

same way. There's almost a scientific process

9:32

to the Astartes. This

9:34

is just kind of like the Emperor throwing some

9:36

stuff together. It's a little bit less polished

9:40

in a lot of ways than the Astartes are.

9:43

Yeah. If we could turn

9:45

arcane into warp fuckery, you

9:47

know. Yeah. The space

9:49

marines, they don't have any of that in them. In fact, a

9:51

lot of them might even have that built in resistance

9:53

a little bit, almost like Grey Knights.

9:55

They have that little bit, but even

9:57

when you find the battles of against

9:59

evil. you're not going to have enough so they fall

10:01

all the time. But yeah,

10:04

that that's kind of that difference is that kind of

10:06

that that magic

10:08

aspect in creating these. And

10:10

then, yeah, they're they're prone to

10:12

fits of rage and they're not controlled because they

10:14

don't undergo any of that indoctrination or it. Yeah,

10:16

they pick up this like techno barbarian warlord and

10:19

his 50 men. Boom. You got

10:21

a sweet regiment of thunder warriors now.

10:23

Yeah, they're a lot more like savage

10:25

humans. Like if you gave like

10:28

juice up a person today or from

10:30

like the Bronze Age. Yeah,

10:35

yeah, yeah, yeah. That's almost kind

10:37

of like an interesting way to look at the

10:40

technology levels. You know, you don't quite

10:42

dial them into bronze

10:44

and iron and copper

10:46

and all that. But, you know, you could do

10:49

brass at a mantium is would be like

10:51

the highest. Maybe, you know, kind of a

10:54

cool way to differentiate the

10:56

tears of space marines, even anyways,

10:58

that's a crazy thought. We got

11:00

gold custard. So that's I'm sure

11:02

that's an age. I

11:05

need to work on this. All

11:07

right. Let's get into the age of strife. So

11:11

the age of strife, also known

11:13

as old night, was a time

11:16

of unparalleled destruction, anarchy and regression

11:18

preceding the rise of the Imperium.

11:21

This era followed the dark age

11:23

of technology, a bygone age

11:26

of immense prosperity and advancement. The

11:29

age of strife commenced in

11:31

M25 and endured until the dawning of M30. Terra,

11:35

along with the rest of the solar

11:37

system, was besieged by terrible

11:39

war storms, isolating humanity's

11:42

cradle for several thousand harrowing

11:44

years. Control

11:46

of the solar system shifted to a

11:48

multius leave between Terra and Mars during

11:50

the chaotic first half of the age

11:52

of strife. By the

11:54

28th millennium, almost all vestiges of

11:56

the civilizations on Earth had been

11:58

obliterated in the destroying

26:00

the subterranean power generators, feeding

26:03

the ethnarchies power fields. In

26:05

the ensuing assault on the attempt this galleries,

26:07

the 18th legion was victorious and was with

26:09

their force fields down. The ethnarchy was quickly

26:12

crushed by the forces of the emperor. So

26:15

there's a lot there, especially with

26:17

what we're talking about building your own factions,

26:19

like slave psykers, other

26:22

genetically enhanced super soldiers,

26:25

the Ur-Casis. Yeah,

26:27

there's just like so much potential there. That's

26:30

yeah, an aspect too in this time, the

26:33

age of strife, the whole reason why terror was

26:35

cut off was all these

26:38

crazy warp storms. So psykers are prime for

26:40

this era too. Yeah, there's

26:42

lots of factions where they have like

26:44

rogue psyker warlords or psyker slaves, and

26:47

then dark age of technology weapons, like that

26:49

could be anything, right? Like, again, there's so

26:52

much you could do with this and

26:54

the fact that they resisted the emperor the first

26:56

time. Yeah. Who

26:59

can say that? 20,000

27:01

thunder warriors killed. Like that's

27:03

pretty cool. On that number, so that

27:06

would technically be, I gave that first number

27:08

of 200 guys

27:10

in each regiment, then that would be everyone's dead,

27:13

all the thunder warriors. Yeah, like wiped out. That

27:15

was maybe his starting number that he walked onto

27:17

the field with, you know? Yeah, that's what

27:19

I'm not sure. But that's a good number.

27:21

Number 40k, man, you can't trust them. You can't

27:23

trust 40k numbers for sure. But

27:26

hey, man, at least we know they can lose 20,000 thunder warriors

27:29

and still keep going. I think

27:32

one thing to note is why they lost so many

27:34

or one of the main reasons

27:36

was that psyker thing. And we're talking about

27:38

the arcane engineering and we get later on

27:40

to the creation process a little bit. The

27:43

thunder warriors are psyker resistant to some degree.

27:46

So they're like blasting bolts and stuff and,

27:48

you know, they can shrug them off just

27:50

a touch better. And maybe it's more on

27:52

the lines of like mind control, psychic powers

27:55

that they can resist. Yeah, like they can't

27:57

be influenced or... Exactly.

38:00

about how strong Thunder Warriors actually

38:02

are in comparison to Custodes and,

38:04

you know, Astartes and other humans

38:07

and stuff. And, you

38:10

know, we'll get to that. But there are

38:12

no slouches. So, you know, think about this

38:14

battle and the Custodes fighting these guys when

38:16

we talk about those numbers. But another

38:19

thing that's interesting in this little bit is, yeah, it

38:21

makes sense why this

38:23

had to happen. These are not good warriors.

38:26

These are a bunch of techno-barbarian

38:28

savages, like, that don't listen

38:30

to you sometimes. Yeah, they might raise the entire

38:32

city, but you also said don't kill any of

38:35

the civilians. So it's like, well, they're all gone

38:37

too. What do you do?

38:39

Yeah, there's

38:42

kind of a debate about whether or not

38:44

the Emperor should have annihilated the Thunder Warriors.

38:46

And well, actually, before I get into that,

38:49

even the way this whole story is framed

38:51

is almost like pseudo legend. So it's not

38:54

even like super clear that this is factual.

38:56

Although I think most people agree that it

38:58

is to some degree, the

39:00

details are vague on purpose. It's kind of that 40k thing

39:02

of like, is it, isn't it? Yeah,

39:05

which is interesting, like narrative

39:07

setup. But just

39:09

going back to old earth,

39:11

like this would be the like, if ever

39:14

they did that and came out, this is

39:16

the final battle, man. This is like, what

39:18

actually happened there? This is like the Emperor

39:20

versus Horus of the Horus

39:23

heresy. No, no, no, you guys got it

39:25

all wrong. The last book ends just before

39:27

the end of this battle. And

39:29

that's where you leave it. Because I think that would be

39:31

an excellent like to leave it leave

39:33

it like the tension of did the Emperor like you

39:36

have to intentionally you know, like at the end of

39:39

of inception, where you don't know if it falls

39:41

over at the end or not. That's how I

39:43

want that battle to end is you don't know

39:45

if the Emperor kills them. Yeah,

39:47

since it's UW and they're money hungry

39:49

hookers, they would still sell that end

39:51

book and you open it up and

39:53

it just says redacted and you're like

39:55

son of a bitch. But it's also

39:57

part one's two and three. Oh

40:00

my God! 100

40:03

bucks gone. Curse you.

40:06

You got to get the leather bound collector's

40:08

edition of that though. Oh, $150 gone. It's

40:15

leather bound though, it's pretty. Yeah.

40:18

Yeah. This would just be such a cool battle, man.

40:22

The heroes, man, at this point, everyone

40:24

would be a hero in and of

40:26

themselves. Like everyone's got a hundred years

40:28

of fighting, even the Custodes, like

40:31

that's the all time rumble. Well, I

40:33

looked it up, it was 203 years. The

40:36

Magician Wars. Yeah. That's a long time

40:38

to get good. But I guess

40:40

Underwarriors have short lifespans and- I know,

40:43

but short is relative in 40k terms.

40:45

Like there's regular humans that break a

40:47

hundred years. So- Yeah, like how long

40:49

was Eisenhower around for? I

40:51

think it's over a hundred years. It was, yeah. Yeah,

40:53

so like, you know, and it's already, they don't

40:56

even know if they're immortal versus a Thunder Warrior,

40:58

maybe they only make it to 400 years, which

41:00

is like short, when you

41:02

compare it to a mortality, right? Yeah.

41:06

Yeah. We do know that there are

41:08

Thunder Warriors in the, well,

41:10

I guess we'll read the next little bit of

41:12

the notes here, surviving survivors fates. There were a

41:14

few that actually crept away somehow. Maybe they were

41:17

off on another assignment, or maybe they actually

41:19

did fight their way through a bunch of

41:22

Custodes, broke onto some jet fighter and flew

41:24

the fuck away, which is cool too. That

41:27

would be wild. Like, be like, you're

41:29

just, they're all getting slaughtered and somehow

41:31

you sneak away from Custodes. Somehow. Yeah.

41:35

Absolutely wild. Numerous accounts speak of the

41:37

lone Thunder Warriors and or groups who

41:39

evaded the Emperor's culling. Four such Thunder

41:42

Warriors that I'm gonna focus on, survived

41:44

on Terra, were forced to

41:46

serve in the gladiatorial, as

41:48

gladiator, sorry, they were forced to

41:50

serve as gladiators in the depths of the

41:52

maw, near the slums known as the swath.

41:55

Despite their physical decay, they

41:57

remained formidable warriors. the

46:00

Primarchs are not the Primarchs that we know, they're just like,

46:02

it's a rank of Thunder Warrior, not like

46:05

it's a special enhanced Thunder Warrior or

46:07

anything like that. However,

46:10

unlike the Astartes Primer, oh yeah, the

46:12

Thunder Warriors were not physically distinct from the

46:14

Warriors they led. Instead, they were super-relative warriors

46:16

elevated to their positions by the Emperor himself.

46:19

So just recognized for like just being a

46:21

badass pretty much. Yeah. The

46:24

legions of the Thunder Warriors appear to have parallels

46:26

with those of the Astartes. For

46:28

instance, the Fourth Legion of Thunder Warriors was

46:30

known as the Iron Lords, specializing

46:33

in siegecraft. This mirrors

46:35

the later Iron Warriors of the Astartes.

46:38

I don't know how I feel about that to be honest. I

46:41

hate it, but if I wanted to like it,

46:43

you could get really cool with it and we could

46:45

talk about oh, Raven

46:48

Guard Thunder Warriors and you know, you

46:50

could, but do we really need 40k,

46:52

30k, and old Earth

46:56

versions? I don't think so. Yeah,

46:58

it just seems like not creative.

47:01

Yeah, I think like, I wonder when this came

47:03

out, this piece of lore, because this is definitely

47:05

like within the last five years, I would imagine

47:07

this. When I did these episode notes, it's the

47:10

first time I ever read anything about them. Like,

47:13

and especially like how they're then, not

47:15

only are there 20 legions, there's also

47:18

Primarchs and then on top of that,

47:20

they also mimic their

47:23

counters. Like, yeah. Yeah.

47:27

What happened to the second and eleventh

47:29

Thunder Legion? Are they disappeared? Like,

47:33

fuck off. James,

47:35

what do you think about it? I

47:38

kind of agree. I think they, if they should have

47:40

had their own kind of culture, but

47:42

I guess maybe since there's nothing about

47:44

them, there's not

47:47

really like what else are they going to do? So,

47:50

what I would, if there ever was a time

47:52

where they do an old world kind of thing

47:56

or an old Earth kind of thing. You mean the

47:58

thing we're doing? Yeah, the thing we're doing. So

50:00

tactics are pretty cool. We're

50:02

gonna jump into that little thunder.

50:04

Warriors towering in statue are formidable

50:07

in combat. Employ direct assaults, leveraging

50:09

their immense strength to overwhelm foes

50:11

with unyielding aggression. Demonstrating

50:14

adaptability, they swiftly adjust tactics

50:16

to exploit enemy

50:19

weaknesses and secure strategic advantages

50:21

on the battlefield. Mastery

50:23

of close-quarter combats and utilization

50:26

of brutal chain weapons struck

50:28

fear into adversaries, sowing chaos

50:30

and demoralization before delivering decisive

50:32

blows. Coordinating with

50:35

other Imperial forces, such as custodian

50:37

guard and early Imperial formations, ensured

50:39

a unified front in the relentless

50:41

campaign to unify terror under the

50:43

Emperor's banner. Yeah,

50:46

so even any of that precision striking or any

50:48

of that stuff, they're leaving the important stuff to,

50:51

a very specialized regiment or the

50:53

Custodes. Yeah, they're kind of like

50:55

the brains and then they coordinate the

50:58

whole battlefield. Because again, you can't

51:00

forget there's other humans, other

51:02

Imperial regiments, it's not just

51:04

under warriors. Yeah, they're

51:06

too much of a blunt instrument to be thought of as

51:08

like, and I think if you were to

51:10

do this old Earth game, they

51:15

would just be like, have some hilarious

51:17

rule, they have to target the closest

51:19

thing or something. That's kind of

51:21

the way they are. They're like, I'm here to kill stuff.

51:24

They're not tactical things.

51:27

Yeah, if they can't assault, they have to

51:29

assault. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's good too.

51:31

Yeah, I like that. They're both

51:33

gonna kick some. Since it's our game and

51:36

we can do what we want, we'll

51:38

do like movie Marines, but movie

51:40

Thunder Warriors. So their stat lines

51:42

are like, they have five wounds.

51:44

They're all buffed out. So you're

51:46

playing them and you're putting your five models down against

51:48

15, 30, 50. A

51:55

thousand. It's a swarm versus just your

51:57

Thunder Warrior. It's how many

51:59

people. afford because remember you got a

52:02

3D controller. Yeah depends on

52:04

time and money. Exactly. Oh so

52:07

is that how you do how you balance the

52:09

battles is how many models you can afford to

52:11

put on a table. There's

52:15

actually a cool way to kind of

52:17

derailment here. There's like a

52:19

it's like a tabletop

52:21

parvigy game where you

52:23

create monsters out of like play-doh and

52:27

so they're your miniatures and you like you

52:29

can create as many miniatures as you have putty. So

52:31

you could do like a

52:33

horde and like do a lot of little guys

52:35

or do one big powerful guy. It's cool because

52:38

you can like mash them after and it's it's

52:40

a really cool concept. Save this for Dadhammer and

52:42

me and Migo. We gotta do Dadhammer. We can

52:44

do play-doh with stardies. I'm also thinking

52:46

we can do bedtime tales 40k

52:48

bedtime tales for our children. Amazing.

52:51

It could be a beautiful thing Dadhammer. Stay

52:55

tuned for that. All right

52:58

let's get into the abilities and

53:00

flaws of the Thunder Warriors. The

53:04

Thunder Warriors were colossal towering

53:06

over most space marines. Despite

53:09

their physical deterioration the few Thunder

53:11

Warriors who survived the end of

53:14

the unification wars remained formidable adversaries

53:16

capable of out matching even a

53:18

stardies and at times outperforming custodians

53:21

in combat. Severely

53:23

deteriorated Thunder Warriors could

53:25

still engage and overpower

53:27

multiple stardies simultaneously. They

53:29

were engineered to be highly resistant to

53:31

psychic attacks likely due to the sorcery

53:34

they regularly face during the age of

53:36

strife with any mental assault inflicting severe

53:38

pain on the attacking psyker. Their

53:41

upper body strength was unparalleled and coupled

53:43

with their early model power armor they

53:45

were virtually unbeatable in close combat. Even

53:49

a heavily deteriorated Thunder Warrior could kick

53:51

through the torso of a normal human

53:53

with ease. It's a very specific mark.

53:56

It's just that arc Taranis book I just remember

53:58

reading being like he's doing the prison

54:01

break and he's kicking through his stardis left

54:03

right and center like what the fuck is

54:05

happening here? Their

54:07

bones are thicker than those of an sardis

54:09

enabling thunder warriors to shatter an sardis skull

54:12

with a headbutt. The reflexes

54:14

were extraordinarily enhanced allowing them to

54:16

dodge plasma gunshots while simultaneously engaging

54:18

two other stardis in battle. The

54:21

genetic template of the thunder warriors was unstable

54:23

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55:13

details. As a stardis thunder warriors lived

55:15

as warlords in relished battle. Their

55:17

human emotions were not purged and they were

55:19

known for their dry humor. That's

55:22

a interesting ability

55:24

or flaw. It's

55:27

a flaw.

55:30

Yeah some of us suffer from that. Others have outrageous

55:32

humor but you know it's you'll get you in trouble

55:34

each which way about it. Yeah

55:37

like they are powerful these thunder warriors

55:40

they are capable of taking on custodians

55:42

and a stardis like it's a

55:44

coin toss up and if you know

55:46

if it's in a stardis I think I'm giving it to

55:49

the thunder warrior every time. Yeah if it's a one v

55:51

one. Yeah I think like if

55:53

a stardis can coordinate it's almost like a

55:55

custodis versus a stardis debate like

55:57

if the stardis can coordinate and use their tactics.

56:00

They would fight to their advantage and

56:02

maybe take down a squad of Thunder Warriors.

56:04

But if it's like a 1v1 cage match,

56:07

then the Thunder Warrior comes out on top. I think

56:09

that shows- For all

56:12

the Coomers out there, who do you think is the best

56:14

lover though? Of the three of them. Since

56:16

that's where 40k is going, I personally

56:19

think the Thunder Warriors, that's how I get down. If

56:22

you're into raw, passionate lovemaking. Oh yes.

56:24

These are more like the full romance

56:26

experience. You don't have a vasectomy

56:29

and then still have a kid if you're not

56:31

doing Thunder Warrior love style. I'll

56:34

tell you that much. So

56:36

what are the three categories? We had Thunder Warrior,

56:39

Astartes and- Custodian Guard. So

56:41

you know your Comforter, your support

56:43

role. You're

56:47

a good lover for sure if you're a Custodian. And then

56:49

we got the Astartes who is- He's

56:52

planning out all these extravagant events. It's

56:55

like, oh, he's taking me out to dinner first. He's

56:58

taking me to a nice restaurant. He

57:01

got me the flowers. The blood

57:03

games take on a whole new meaning. Disgusting.

57:07

Fuck me. Gross. See

57:11

what I mean about the Humors getting you

57:13

in trouble though? Dry Humor. That is

57:16

the flaw. That is the

57:18

flaw. It's undeniable. Yeah. They

57:20

never specify exactly what's wrong with Thunder

57:22

Warriors. It's always

57:24

like a vague, cancerous deterioration.

57:27

But what that actually looks

57:29

like, they don't really say it,

57:32

do they? Yeah. Do they zombie

57:34

rot or is it like- Yeah. Is

57:38

their skin falling off leprosy? Yeah, exactly.

57:40

They just don't specify what that looks like.

57:44

On that note too, they are still combat

57:46

effective apparently because the ones that were fighting

57:48

in the arena pit managed to do it

57:51

while they were deteriorating. But

57:53

it doesn't lend towards reliable soldiers

57:55

on a battlefield. So that's why they're

57:57

not as useful instruments for the great-

1:00:00

remained unpowered, covered by padded breechers

1:00:02

or simple steel plates. Symbolism

1:00:05

and production. Named for

1:00:07

the Raptor Imperialis symbol used by the

1:00:09

emperor, the thunder armor varied in design,

1:00:11

reflecting personal taste and was

1:00:14

locally produced without a standardized

1:00:16

template, making it noisier and less

1:00:18

suited for stealth operations compared to

1:00:20

later models. So no Raven Guard

1:00:22

guys. They're out. The

1:00:27

Raptor Imperialis symbol is cool. I learned that

1:00:29

that was, Terran Marines will

1:00:31

wear that. So if you've served with, like

1:00:34

if you're a Terran Marine, you'll have that

1:00:36

on your armor somewhere. Yeah, that's super cool.

1:00:38

It's that eagle head with the thunderbolts, right?

1:00:41

Yep. Yeah, wrap your head,

1:00:43

but like

1:00:46

the bird wrapped, not the dinosaur. Are

1:00:49

they the same thing? Hard

1:00:52

to say, give it a thousand years maybe. Yeah,

1:00:56

we also got weapons that go with

1:00:59

them. In

1:01:01

their earliest days before the Imperial science

1:01:03

birth, greater weapons of destruction, the thunder

1:01:05

warriors wielded last rifles. As

1:01:07

time progressed, the thunder warriors were

1:01:09

equipped with an archaic yet formidable pattern

1:01:12

of what would become the standard Astartes

1:01:14

bolter. The thunder warriors

1:01:16

wielded brutal chain weapons such as chain

1:01:18

swords designed to instill terror in enemies,

1:01:21

the savage warror and visceral carnage

1:01:23

of these weapons

1:01:25

served not only as instruments of death, but

1:01:28

also as harboringers of fear, demoralizing

1:01:30

foes before killing blows was struck.

1:01:34

Yeah, like it's interesting too that like they kind of,

1:01:38

200 years is a long time and that's how

1:01:40

long this unification war lasts. So they have a

1:01:42

couple of variations. They first come out and they

1:01:44

have just padded breeches and lads rifles, but at

1:01:46

the end, like it almost looks like

1:01:49

they're wearing full power armor

1:01:51

at that point. Yeah, they start to look more

1:01:53

like Astartes. Yeah, they

1:01:55

got their bolters. James, there's one slide

1:01:57

in there with a bunch of blue thunder warriors, maybe

1:01:59

flip to the... taking

1:04:00

weapons away from people. Now you can't

1:04:02

use that. Has he said that ever? No,

1:04:05

here's what they, they'd probably be like a lot

1:04:07

of like, over cooking plasma, but

1:04:09

it's like always over cooking. And that's all

1:04:11

the weapons. Like they have like a high

1:04:13

chance of killing you. It only doesn't kill

1:04:15

you if you're realistic. Yeah. It

1:04:17

overheats on like one to five. If

1:04:20

it hits, by goodness, he still got to roll the wound.

1:04:26

Excellent. All right. Let's

1:04:28

go into some notable thunder warriors. Scanned.

1:04:31

Oh. Oh, sorry. Before

1:04:33

we go into that, could we just talk a little

1:04:36

bit? Like we've been doing the slides

1:04:38

show. So I haven't talked a lot about

1:04:40

the actual physical appearance, but like

1:04:43

they have helmet plumes on them, like helmet

1:04:45

hair. They got some like, what

1:04:48

do you call like the crest? I guess would be helmet

1:04:50

crests. Sometimes

1:04:53

they have full face plates. Maybe

1:04:55

just flick through some of these photos here, James, so

1:04:57

we can see a snap and maybe I can describe

1:04:59

instead of, that guy has

1:05:01

a cigar in his mouth. That's

1:05:04

standard issue. Standard issue. That's the

1:05:06

only thing that was standardized. Yeah.

1:05:12

Like the one on the right, like that guy has

1:05:14

like, like he killed like a white Puma. So

1:05:17

I'm gonna have his shoulders. That's

1:05:20

me. Yeah. That's Christian. Yeah. So

1:05:23

the left one is like, that's official GWR

1:05:25

though, right? Yeah. That's

1:05:28

Blanche art. I think

1:05:30

there's three notable Thunder Warrior artworks from

1:05:32

John Blanche. Is it with John Blanche?

1:05:35

Yeah. Whatever. He just, I'm

1:05:37

pretty sure he just started his own mini company. Yeah, he did.

1:05:40

Yeah. I haven't seen anything. I just heard

1:05:42

the rumblings, but I'll check that out. Yeah. I saw one picture.

1:05:45

I want to dig into it and see what that's about. But

1:05:48

yeah, as you were flicking through these pictures, man,

1:05:51

you can just see all the variation and like,

1:05:53

even though there's only like 10 pictures of Thunder

1:05:55

Warriors, there's such variation in each guy. Here's

1:05:57

a nice picture of my only fans. I

1:06:00

don't know how that got in there. Do you want

1:06:02

to go back to those blanche ones? I just want

1:06:04

to mention something. It's interesting on this

1:06:06

one that the helmet looks a lot more like an

1:06:08

Astartes. Like you would think you would be looking at

1:06:11

a Space Marine. Yeah, for

1:06:13

sure. And even though that

1:06:15

is like you said a John Blanche one, so like,

1:06:17

you know, pretty old artwork. Yeah.

1:06:20

I also like them in gold. I do like... I

1:06:22

don't like so much like the Ultra Marine colored one. Yeah.

1:06:26

Yeah, no, the gold's a thing. Why not? If

1:06:30

it's there, use it. Right.

1:06:33

You want me to roll into notable Thunderwars? Maybe

1:06:36

let's do one more slide picture here over

1:06:38

to the... Yeah, to the OnlyFans picture. Yeah.

1:06:41

Are you one of the OnlyFans? Yeah, there we

1:06:43

go. That's me. Okay,

1:06:46

because this is from the Patreon. This

1:06:50

is just a classic picture of some of the scales

1:06:52

of what go from left to right. A Custodian's, then

1:06:54

a Thunder Warrior, then an Astartes,

1:06:57

then a human. And you can

1:06:59

even just see that the Thunder Warriors is taller

1:07:01

and like... Like he almost looks

1:07:03

like a strongman, you know, where

1:07:06

they almost got a little bit of that gut, but

1:07:09

very like, you look like a strongman

1:07:11

build, where the Custodian's and the Astartes

1:07:14

are more like, you know, like Arnold

1:07:16

Schwarzenegger and his Prime type. Defined. Defined.

1:07:19

Yeah. A little more

1:07:22

meat to the Thunder Warriors. You know

1:07:24

what I mean? Noticable too on this is

1:07:26

how much less augmentation they have, like, as

1:07:28

far as like the things

1:07:30

that would go in their bodies, like the Black

1:07:34

Care Base. The Black Care Base is where

1:07:36

I was going with that. Get

1:07:38

out of here, Christian. Yeah, and then we just

1:07:40

have the feeble human on the right. I

1:07:42

mean, that dude's pretty jacked too, though, to be fair.

1:07:44

That is the worst mugshot of all time. And then

1:07:46

you go into prison with those three. To

1:07:52

be fair, this is an official art. So,

1:07:55

I mean, it's reliability. I trust it. Like,

1:07:58

it reflects pretty accurately. the

1:12:00

Thunder Warriors. Like his name is Gnome. I'm

1:12:04

trying to do this off of memory which is probably

1:12:06

a bad idea so feel free to fact check me

1:12:08

James. Fact check false. But

1:12:12

he really comes in to

1:12:14

the Outcast Dead book and

1:12:16

he's one of the survivors of the Purge and it's from

1:12:19

him that we learn a lot about the Thunder Warriors to

1:12:21

begin with. And he's got

1:12:23

some titles. Yeah he's got like and

1:12:26

he goes by different names too. And

1:12:28

even in the Outcast Dead because he's like in hiding,

1:12:31

he's like in charge of like the

1:12:33

slums and stuff as like a crime

1:12:35

boss essentially. And his

1:12:38

whole goal is actually to stabilize

1:12:40

the Thunder Warrior, not genie, but

1:12:42

like stabilize the Thunder Warrior genetics

1:12:45

to have him survive and

1:12:48

have whatever surviving Thunder Warriors. He has another

1:12:50

one that works with him. Is it is

1:12:53

his pseudonym Babu Dachal or is that the name

1:12:55

of the Thunder Warrior that works with him? There's

1:13:00

another Thunder Warrior that's kind of like his bodyguard. But

1:13:03

the two of them are like

1:13:06

also to speak to their so they

1:13:08

were great war heroes, survived the Battle

1:13:10

of Mount Ararat, became a criminal warlord,

1:13:12

and that's where that Babu comes

1:13:15

in. Yeah but that's the crazy

1:13:17

thing too is like they're on Terra. So

1:13:19

they're skilled enough to avoid like living

1:13:21

in the heart of the Empire and

1:13:24

still go on undetected. With

1:13:26

Custodes probably hunting them. Exactly

1:13:29

like that speaks I think a lot to

1:13:31

his abilities. And

1:13:34

then further to that like his whole noble goal

1:13:36

of trying to like stabilize genie. He isn't just

1:13:39

like a dumber, like he's

1:13:41

actually pretty smart. He's a scientist and

1:13:45

it's kind of left vague and open-ended. But he

1:13:47

does steal the genie from

1:13:49

a dead space marine or

1:13:52

marines plural. And it's

1:13:54

implied that he's going to use the

1:13:56

genie to stabilize whatever surviving Thunder Warriors

1:13:59

are left, including himself. Which

1:14:02

if you allow me it rolls into the army

1:14:04

that I created. Oh also

1:14:07

one thing too about Eric is

1:14:10

that he doesn't blame the Emperor

1:14:12

for what happened to

1:14:14

the Thunder Warriors. He actually is like very understanding

1:14:16

of what the Emperor did. He's like I kind

1:14:18

of I get it. I see why he had

1:14:20

to do that. So it's not

1:14:22

like he like holds it against the Emperor. He's still

1:14:24

loyal to the Emperor even after

1:14:26

everything. Even after the Emperor tried to kill

1:14:28

him. Yeah that's true loyalty. That's a

1:14:30

lot of words. Learn something about that James. Because I'm gonna

1:14:32

try to kill you. A jerk. My

1:14:36

wife tries to kill me every day okay. But

1:14:39

I'm still like you. Yeah

1:14:42

this might be one of the only Thunder Warriors

1:14:44

with like a clear and distinct goal

1:14:46

beyond just like survive the next

1:14:49

battle. Survive. Escape.

1:14:51

Survive. Yeah so

1:14:53

he's pretty cool. Victor

1:14:57

of Galladier, the last rider,

1:14:59

the Butcher of Scandia, and the

1:15:01

Throne Slayer. Some pretty cool titles he

1:15:04

has. Yeah so like he he's obviously

1:15:06

done a lot in his career. Like

1:15:08

he's known. Should

1:15:11

I roll into my like fanfic now or later

1:15:13

Mark? Yeah now quitting.

1:15:16

Yeah so when uh not

1:15:18

Thunder Warriors. What do you call the fantasy?

1:15:21

Sigmar. I was gonna

1:15:23

call him Sigmar. What are they called actually?

1:15:25

Stormcast. Stormcast with Terranolz. Yeah so

1:15:28

with the whole Thunder theme and everything I was like oh these

1:15:30

would make great Thunder Warriors.

1:15:33

But instead of doing like the old world thing I was like I

1:15:35

want them to be in 40k. So kind of

1:15:38

like my fanfiction lore that I made

1:15:40

for them was that um

1:15:43

Eric Taranis like escaped. He stabilized

1:15:45

the not genie but whatever process

1:15:47

they used to make Thunder Warriors. He hit off

1:15:50

into like the dark reaches of the galaxy and

1:15:53

created an army of like neo-Thunder

1:15:55

Warriors. Who would kind of

1:15:57

like roll out into the 40k universe and just

1:18:00

We could say that about a lot of shit

1:18:02

GW does great models horrible fucking Lord. What would

1:18:04

they do? James

1:18:08

I did have one mine was

1:18:10

the okay. I'm gonna butcher this

1:18:12

pronunciation. So just bear with me

1:18:15

the Zula Woot That's

1:18:18

what I'm going with He's the

1:18:20

guy that got killed in the

1:18:22

gladiatorial rings Because I just

1:18:24

think it's hilarious that he managed to survive

1:18:27

the slaughter and the culling only to end

1:18:29

up getting killed in a gladiatorial Fight I

1:18:32

think that's hilarious Do

1:18:34

you think he was happy with his outcome?

1:18:36

Yes Is he

1:18:39

like an orc? He just was happy. I do

1:18:41

you know what he loved. Yeah committing violence and

1:18:43

war crimes. I Guess

1:18:46

I mean if you're a thunder warrior, that's what you're in

1:18:48

for. Let me a war crime the first time No,

1:18:52

it's never a war crime. No, you don't know it becomes

1:18:54

a war crime after Or

1:18:56

is that like the thing where like every

1:18:58

time you kill a murderer you just increase the number

1:19:00

of murders? Not if I kill a lot of Was

1:19:15

when psykers attack thunder warriors it

1:19:17

actually hurts the psyker Yeah,

1:19:20

okay interesting. Yeah, so just like

1:19:22

bounces their attack back at them

1:19:25

Which has cool tabletop implications, but also is

1:19:27

just like cool war wise, too

1:19:30

Yeah, yeah I'm telling

1:19:32

you that would be sweet You

1:19:34

just put down five on the side and every turn you

1:19:37

roll both you guys like please don't come in and fuck

1:19:39

up I'm like if a little kid comes in and just

1:19:41

flips your table. You like All

1:19:46

right, let's talk about the important

1:19:48

things in life the finer things and that's

1:19:51

culture the cultural impact that the

1:19:53

Thunder Warriors had on Tara It

1:19:56

was pretty significant as you would believe Plenty

1:20:00

of destructions of old culture, so the

1:20:02

eradication of local traditions. The

1:20:05

Thunder Warriors with their brutal efficiency

1:20:08

dismantled the varied cultures and traditions

1:20:10

of terror's fragmented states. Cultural

1:20:13

homogenization. Imposition of

1:20:15

imperial culture. The Emperor's vision

1:20:18

included a homogenized culture that

1:20:20

eradicated regional differences. Impact

1:20:23

on art and expression. Marital

1:20:25

themes in art. The dominance. No

1:20:31

marriage. The eradicated

1:20:33

marriage. Marital

1:20:36

themes in art. The dominance of the Thunder

1:20:38

Warriors, man that really gives a different tone.

1:20:42

The dominance of the Thunder

1:20:44

Warriors influenced art and literature

1:20:46

shifting themes towards Martin. Marshall,

1:20:48

Laurie, and the Emperor's divine

1:20:50

right to rule. Suppression

1:20:53

of dissent. Any

1:20:56

form of artistic expression that questioned

1:20:58

the Emperor's rule or lamented the

1:21:00

loss of pre-unification cultures was ruthlessly

1:21:03

suppressed. Social

1:21:06

hierarchies and power structures. Rise

1:21:09

of the elite warrior. The Thunder

1:21:11

Warriors themselves through eventual, though eventually

1:21:14

purged, set a precedent for new

1:21:16

warrior elite. This warrior class

1:21:18

embodied later by the space marines and

1:21:20

kustos became a new societal ideal. Power

1:21:22

and respect were increasingly tied to martial

1:21:25

ability and loyalty to the Emperor. And

1:21:28

finally, the suppression of religious practices.

1:21:31

Concurrent with the rise of

1:21:33

imperial hegemony, the Emperor initiated

1:21:35

the ruthless campaign against religious

1:21:37

institutions and beliefs. Temples were

1:21:39

raised, sacred texts burned, and

1:21:41

religious leaders purged as the

1:21:43

Emperor sought to establish his

1:21:45

secular imperial truth. So

1:21:48

basically, he just took the planet and made

1:21:50

it his in every way. Took away anything

1:21:52

special and made it his. Yeah,

1:21:55

it's super interesting, like the idea that,

1:21:58

okay, this is like the most pure

1:22:00

embodiment. embodiment of the Emperor's imperial truth.

1:22:02

Like no religion, no uniqueness.

1:22:05

Everyone's going to be

1:22:07

this atheist commune

1:22:10

of culture where everyone's exactly the

1:22:12

same. And it's so funny that I

1:22:15

guess the irony of it being holy

1:22:17

terra later where this is now the

1:22:19

center of religiousness

1:22:21

in the universe is hilarious also.

1:22:24

Yeah. Yeah,

1:22:26

like if the Emperor came back, how many more

1:22:28

temples would he burn on terra alone? Well,

1:22:31

that depends. Maybe he wanted the temples to be

1:22:33

built. Yeah, man. He's

1:22:36

ascending to Godhood. Just like Horace said,

1:22:39

just as planned. It's all

1:22:41

according to plan. Yeah, there's

1:22:43

a lot of cool things that he kind of did

1:22:45

and like how how it really affected like the rise

1:22:47

of the elite warrior is interesting because yeah, then all

1:22:50

of a sudden space brings roll up and all of

1:22:52

a sudden you want to be recruited as a space

1:22:54

brain. If your if your planet has potential

1:22:57

recruits, you're tied non

1:23:01

apt now, which means you don't pay. So

1:23:03

that's like a benefit. Like it's it's it's

1:23:05

privileged for sure. Yeah, warrior

1:23:08

elite, not to get into real

1:23:10

stuff too much. But like

1:23:12

our modern society doesn't really like elevate warrior

1:23:14

cultures, right? Like we live in relative peace

1:23:17

and stuff. But if you go to like

1:23:19

Bronze Age cultures, like their

1:23:21

stories, their songs, their heroes were

1:23:23

like great warriors, right? Like, that's

1:23:26

something their culture and society valued.

1:23:28

And that's what they imposed on Terra. So like,

1:23:31

you know, you have different barbarian warlords

1:23:34

with different cultures and whatever. But

1:23:36

I'm sure some of them are like brutal, you

1:23:38

know, hero warship of warriors. But

1:23:41

others probably like that dancing civilization you

1:23:43

were talking about. Yeah,

1:23:46

Mark. Yeah, like,

1:23:49

who knows what they value as a culture, but

1:23:51

it doesn't matter anymore, because it's in ruins. So

1:23:55

now it's only thunder warriors. Yeah. tragic.

1:24:00

Really? Is it? Well,

1:24:02

it is because this is the end of the

1:24:05

old earth. As we know, the

1:24:07

Senate that we have come to love in the last hour

1:24:09

and a half. You see? We

1:24:12

birthed it and destroyed it in the span of an

1:24:14

hour. Well, just to

1:24:16

add in, this is like, this is

1:24:19

the idea that we're talking about, like this purging of all

1:24:21

the culture. This is where that last

1:24:23

church episode or last church book

1:24:26

comes in. And it's such

1:24:28

an interesting way, unpacking

1:24:31

what the emperor's goals are. And

1:24:35

as it seems like the further the great

1:24:37

crusade goes along, the more it kind of,

1:24:39

the this pure idea that it starts with

1:24:42

on Terra kind of starts falling

1:24:44

apart as it gets further out. Once

1:24:46

you get 200 years

1:24:48

into the crusade, there's like little cults

1:24:50

popping up everywhere. The lodges themselves are

1:24:52

popping up. There's all this stuff that

1:24:54

kind of breaks down as the emperor's

1:24:57

vision to conquer the universe and make it all just

1:24:59

one thing. And like, it can't

1:25:01

even survive the great crusade, but this is like the start

1:25:03

of it. This is where it

1:25:05

initially is created. Yeah,

1:25:07

I think it speaks to like

1:25:09

the bigger truth that like humans are

1:25:12

naturally like spiritual and whatever sci-fi setting

1:25:14

or fantasy setting

1:25:16

you go into, there's always some type of

1:25:18

spiritual or ethereal or unknown elements that we're

1:25:21

always drawn to. Yeah,

1:25:23

and humans are naturally divisive. Yeah,

1:25:27

that's right, and we won't. Yeah,

1:25:29

we're like, ah, peace,

1:25:31

love and harmony, but also war and

1:25:33

vengeance. It's

1:25:36

fun, it's a good time being a human. Now

1:25:40

we just need to elevate ourselves to thunder warriors. Yeah,

1:25:43

I never stood a chance as a

1:25:45

stardies. I was too old by the

1:25:47

time I learned about them, but

1:25:50

I could be a thunder warriors, I think, I could. All

1:25:57

right, any closing thoughts? My kind of.

1:26:00

closing thought on this whole

1:26:04

kind of theme and topic is

1:26:06

the saga of the

1:26:08

Thunder Warriors is the legendary

1:26:10

primordial giants of the unification

1:26:12

wars stands as a brutal

1:26:14

testament to the Emperor's relentless vision another

1:26:16

corpse in the pile of the corpse

1:26:18

god yeah

1:26:21

just more bodies man and even

1:26:23

them themselves like the tool gets used

1:26:26

to kill and then it also gets

1:26:28

discarded in turn and

1:26:30

then that carries on into how we treat space

1:26:32

marines and then that causes the horse heresy and

1:26:34

then so on and so forth yeah I

1:26:37

do have an argument against

1:26:42

I know that that's like one of the motivations they're

1:26:44

like okay what what function do

1:26:46

the space Marines have in the new Imperium

1:26:48

right that was a big question that like

1:26:50

was circulating amongst the legions that

1:26:53

caused some of them to fall they're like when

1:26:55

war is done what happens with the warriors the

1:26:59

thing with that is that space Marines were

1:27:02

also like enhanced humans

1:27:04

they had interests they were

1:27:06

really good at other things they

1:27:09

had other talents like ultraman their

1:27:11

great administrators you know

1:27:13

they could have had a whole life

1:27:15

like you could have a 50 year old

1:27:17

Thunder Warrior who was then recruited you know

1:27:19

and who has had 50 years of human

1:27:21

experience before he became this demigod yeah

1:27:26

yeah well the other thing too is that space Marines

1:27:28

like could have I don't

1:27:30

know if this is like necessarily directly

1:27:32

pulled out but it could have been

1:27:34

the Emperor's goal that the space Marines

1:27:36

would have just defended the the

1:27:38

galaxy from external threats like there would

1:27:40

have still been the Necrons

1:27:43

obviously that wasn't a thing yet

1:27:45

but like that yeah that would have been

1:27:47

a threat that the space Marines would have had it

1:27:49

to been there to deal with the tyranids would eventually

1:27:51

come and that would have been something that the the

1:27:54

space Marines would have had to deal with

1:27:56

so like there's nothing you can't get rid

1:27:58

of like unless the emperor found

1:28:00

a way to upgrade and then I could see him

1:28:03

like, okay, now I don't need space marines anymore, I'll

1:28:05

purge them all. But I don't know if it was

1:28:07

a really fair thing, like there would have always been

1:28:09

something else to fight. Maybe they didn't know that though.

1:28:12

Because those other threats don't come in. There's

1:28:15

always gonna be another cult to suppress in

1:28:19

an empire of millions, planets. Billions,

1:28:21

yeah. Short-sighted Astartes,

1:28:24

fisticed. I do like that

1:28:27

concept though. And that's why I guess they were

1:28:29

replaced with Primaris. Get

1:28:31

outta here. Go on, get. It's

1:28:35

okay, they had an upgrade function though, that

1:28:37

made it okay. There was no upgrade to

1:28:40

space marine from Thunder Warrior. Huh,

1:28:43

okay, okay. Primaris

1:28:45

Thunder Warriors. Oh, what if it was

1:28:47

like, what was the one you mentioned that

1:28:49

was your favorite? Eric Karanis. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:28:51

What if that guy did live and then he

1:28:53

became a space marine, that's how

1:28:56

he survived. And then he became

1:28:58

Primaris through Rubicon crossing. He's still

1:29:00

out there somewhere as a Primaris.

1:29:02

Thunder Warrior. Yeah, and he's just

1:29:05

like a regular intercessor,

1:29:07

nobody guy, he was just hanging

1:29:09

out. Just very powerful for

1:29:11

no explicable reason. Who

1:29:14

is this guy? I don't know, where did he come from? Yeah,

1:29:18

where does that come from? It's

1:29:20

like quietly sitting there like three times the size

1:29:22

of everyone around him. Oh,

1:29:26

yeah, I like it. All

1:29:28

the Earth lives. We made

1:29:30

it. It's the next setting,

1:29:32

Mark. Do you guys have any closing

1:29:34

thoughts? I don't know

1:29:36

how I felt about the Thunder Warriors when

1:29:39

they came out. So like just

1:29:42

in real life timelines, like the Thunder Warriors were just

1:29:44

like mentioned in passing and then kind of around the

1:29:46

time of the outcast dead, they started to flesh out

1:29:49

the whole thing about them. And

1:29:51

that's where the whole thing of them being more powerful than the

1:29:53

Sardis were, that's where it started. And

1:29:56

I don't know how I felt about that initially. I

1:29:59

felt like it was... kind of crapping

1:30:01

on the authorities. But

1:30:05

I've come around to it now. Like

1:30:08

they're cool as like a, just this brutal

1:30:10

machine as like a singular purpose,

1:30:12

but they're not really fit for the great crusade. And

1:30:14

that's what they kind of get disposed of. But

1:30:17

at the time I was kind of like, I don't

1:30:19

know. That was just

1:30:22

my general feeling. Yeah. But

1:30:24

I'm okay with it now. I'm in the warmup

1:30:26

with Thunder Warrior and his humor styles. I get

1:30:29

you. His dry humor. Yeah.

1:30:32

Take the second. Yeah. James,

1:30:34

you got any thoughts? I mean, I

1:30:36

kind of was alluding to it earlier with kind of the way

1:30:38

it sets up. I think it's

1:30:40

a good setup. They have their own

1:30:42

unique style.

1:30:45

They have their own unique approach to

1:30:47

like how they do things aesthetically. They're

1:30:49

quite different from Space Marines, but

1:30:51

they do kind of feel like the first version.

1:30:53

So I feel like they do the job quite

1:30:56

well of being, yeah, this is the initial thing.

1:30:59

It didn't work very well, but it had

1:31:01

all the basic raw materials for what became

1:31:03

the Space Marines after. So I

1:31:05

kind of like it in that. I like it showing

1:31:08

like the Emperor just being an absolute jerk

1:31:10

to people that serve him. I think that's

1:31:13

a cool aspect of it too. Like, yeah,

1:31:15

you use, I mean,

1:31:17

and that's how he treats the Primarchs too, is just

1:31:19

like, oh, you're a tool of mine. I don't care

1:31:21

about you. And sometimes you can debate

1:31:23

it. I don't want to come in with you. No,

1:31:25

no. I won't

1:31:28

take it. Cause he usually uses

1:31:30

his sons as like a tool and like anything

1:31:32

else just seems to be like an

1:31:35

Arthur doing a unique thing. I don't

1:31:37

know. That seems to be the way

1:31:39

he treats things. It's like, I have this vision and I

1:31:41

don't care who I'm gonna like. Step over to get

1:31:43

it. Yeah, I'm gonna mow down anything in order to make

1:31:45

my vision happen. So I think that

1:31:47

works. I agree with you conceptually, but

1:31:49

I'll fight with you on the Primarch episode.

1:31:52

So that's fine. Yeah, it's like he goes

1:31:54

into personally name things and then

1:31:56

he just wipes them out. Okay. That

1:32:00

sounds like maybe he just has like, oh,

1:32:03

I no longer need these things. They don't

1:32:05

serve the purpose. And maybe he just thinks

1:32:07

is like, oh, in order to create loyalty,

1:32:09

in order to create the heroism, in order

1:32:11

to create my army, I need to show

1:32:14

these things. It's all strategic. Yeah, and he doesn't

1:32:16

care. As soon as he's done with it, it's

1:32:18

like, okay, exterminate. So.

1:32:20

Yeah, exactly. It works for me. Fits

1:32:23

the emperor's character. Yeah. So,

1:32:26

we're not quite done the episode yet, boys. We

1:32:29

are bringing back, who knows how

1:32:32

often, but we're bringing back a tales of the warp

1:32:34

segment. And basically the concept of

1:32:36

this is like, what happens out

1:32:38

there in the warp to some of these ideas

1:32:40

that we have? They get fucked with and twisted,

1:32:42

and what happens out there?

1:32:44

Conspiracy corner. The

1:32:47

question we're raising, and I've had this question

1:32:49

asked me many times, so that's why I

1:32:52

chose this one. Did

1:32:54

the old ones create the Tiranids to

1:32:57

defeat the Necron? I

1:33:00

will lay out some of this, and then we'll

1:33:02

kind of discuss it. So,

1:33:06

this apocalyptic struggle,

1:33:08

this theory posts that one of the

1:33:11

old ones forged the Tiranids as a

1:33:13

devastating bio weapon. Engineered

1:33:16

evolution. The rapid

1:33:18

devolvement and unparalleled ability of the Tiranids

1:33:20

might result in one of, might

1:33:23

result in the old ones, supreme

1:33:25

bioengineering, crafted to counter any conceivable

1:33:27

threat and adapt to any battlefield.

1:33:31

And the final one, kind of pro

1:33:33

for it, kind of reason for doing this

1:33:35

is galactic cleansing. Another dimension

1:33:38

of the theory suggests that the Tiranids were

1:33:40

designed to scour the galaxy of all life,

1:33:42

including the Necrons, to deny them their victory

1:33:45

or to reset the galaxy in preparation for

1:33:47

the old ones eventually to return. So

1:33:50

those are kind of the three big things. Anything

1:33:52

jump out to you? Oh,

1:33:56

I got ideas here. Should

1:33:59

I carry on with the... argument supporting and then

1:34:01

counter-arguments? Yeah, lay out the whole case. Lay

1:34:03

out the whole thing. Okay. Argument

1:34:07

supporting this theory. Sophisticated

1:34:09

bioengineering. The Tyranids exhibit an

1:34:11

advanced level of biological engineer

1:34:13

engineering that could imply

1:34:16

the hand had a crater

1:34:18

race with immense scientific powers.

1:34:21

Purposeful design. The

1:34:23

Tyranids relentlessly focus on consumption

1:34:25

and assimilation of biomass can

1:34:28

be seen as a deliberate design to

1:34:30

ensure the annihilation of any opposition, a

1:34:32

hallmark of the old ones desperation. And

1:34:36

the counter-arguments that I could find were lack

1:34:38

of canon evidence, obviously, that's not stated so

1:34:40

we got to just say that right away. There's

1:34:42

no official lore about this. I think that's the

1:34:45

argument right there, but go on. Sure,

1:34:47

Christian. There's not

1:34:49

one word that even has Tyranids and

1:34:52

old ones in the same sentence, let

1:34:54

alone paragraph, like Tyranids origins. The

1:35:00

canonical scripture suggests that the Tyranids hail from

1:35:03

another galaxy. So this

1:35:05

is pretty big holes in this

1:35:08

theory. Driven by insatiable hunger

1:35:10

rather than purpose-driven purposeful creation

1:35:12

by an ancient race. And

1:35:15

finally, the ineffectiveness against Necrons. The

1:35:17

shadow of the warp does not affect

1:35:19

the Necrons and the Tyranids gain no

1:35:22

biomass from them, undermining

1:35:24

the idea that they would design specifically

1:35:26

the counter the Necrons. I

1:35:28

rest my case. Okay, okay,

1:35:31

let me jump in here. Okay,

1:35:33

so the Tyranids don't

1:35:35

make sense evolving on their own.

1:35:38

They're too, like they don't, like

1:35:40

a lot of life forms form

1:35:43

equilibriums with their environments. Because if you

1:35:46

had something that just dominates and eats

1:35:48

everything, if the Tyranids

1:35:50

had no way to get off of a planet,

1:35:52

like in their evolution, they just consumed the whole

1:35:54

planet and it'd be gone. And there'd be nothing

1:35:57

to do and then they just die out on their own. So there's...

1:36:00

There's an element of, okay, this doesn't seem

1:36:02

natural because it doesn't form that equilibrium to

1:36:04

like, simple James, you're walking on like, no,

1:36:06

no, no, shut up, shut up, shut up.

1:36:10

If the other like

1:36:13

even viruses evolved to be less lethal over

1:36:15

time, right? Because otherwise, if they were too

1:36:17

lethal, they'd kill all their, all their hosts,

1:36:19

and then they just die out. So burnout.

1:36:22

That implies to me very strongly that the Tiranith

1:36:24

had to have been created on purpose as a

1:36:26

weapon. I don't see

1:36:29

it as necessarily a drawback that they

1:36:31

came from a different galaxy, because the

1:36:33

old ones conceivably could have gone to

1:36:35

the other galaxy to form, to build

1:36:37

this thing, and then send it back.

1:36:39

That seems totally reasonable to me. Yeah,

1:36:42

they have web way technology, they got

1:36:44

all this crazy tech, like they could,

1:36:46

sure, galaxy hop. Sure. Yeah, I don't

1:36:48

see that. Yeah,

1:36:51

that was all conceivable to me. So the

1:36:53

only real thing that I find is good

1:36:55

evidence that this shouldn't be the thing is

1:36:57

the element of the Necrons in them seem

1:37:00

to just avoid each other. So like, what's

1:37:02

the point of, of doing that?

1:37:04

So that is that is a fair one, that

1:37:06

it isn't the old ones that did it. But

1:37:08

I think it's pretty, I think it's

1:37:10

pretty hard to imagine that this was a

1:37:13

naturally evolved species. Yeah.

1:37:17

Yeah. Do you want to say something before I

1:37:19

jump into my theory about this? Christian?

1:37:23

Yeah. Other than the fact

1:37:25

that there's no evidence

1:37:27

in any of the canonicalist scriptures

1:37:29

of this being an issue

1:37:31

at all. So

1:37:33

point one and two, you're

1:37:36

sticking to those two. Yeah,

1:37:38

kind of a derailment. Oh,

1:37:40

god. This

1:37:42

matches and I don't know what came first, but

1:37:45

Halo has a very similar story. And

1:37:47

I wonder if this fan theory was

1:37:49

lifted from the Halo stuff or

1:37:52

not, or like, what came first? That's like

1:37:54

the essentially Halo. What? That's

1:37:57

like the flood, right? Yeah. And Halo.

1:37:59

has like a precursor race that

1:38:02

fought against the forerunners and

1:38:04

the precursors actually turned themselves into the

1:38:07

flood. Oh, I didn't know

1:38:09

that. Yeah. And like as

1:38:11

a bioweapon, because they were desperate in their war. So

1:38:15

like it sounds eerily similar.

1:38:18

Yeah. Which

1:38:20

makes me not want to make a cannon. Okay,

1:38:23

but do you agree that it doesn't make

1:38:25

sense that the Tyranids could have just evolved

1:38:27

on their own? Dude, this is 40k nothing

1:38:29

makes sense. Well, that's your argument. No,

1:38:31

no, no, no, no. Things can make sense.

1:38:34

I like this is

1:38:36

supposed to be a creature that exists in

1:38:38

nature or a set,

1:38:40

a species that exists in nature. The

1:38:43

way it works is just

1:38:45

like a locust going across things,

1:38:47

going across the whole universe. How

1:38:49

before they had space travel, how

1:38:51

could they exist that way? Do

1:38:53

locust exist? Yeah, locust exist.

1:38:55

Yeah, well then that answers your question. They

1:38:57

don't have the ability to conquer a whole

1:39:00

planet the way it's a way. Sure, but

1:39:02

they didn't have to start that way. Maybe

1:39:04

they evolved interplanetary travel first, and then they

1:39:06

started annihilating planets. Then they're like,

1:39:08

we'll collect resources from every planet. And that's the

1:39:10

equilibrium that they've achieved. And

1:39:13

maybe millions of years they'll come back around again. Yeah,

1:39:16

they're on the planet and like they're not space

1:39:18

faring, but then all of a sudden the population

1:39:20

hits 10 billion, and all of

1:39:22

a sudden the warp takes notice of them. And

1:39:25

that gives them like, maybe some additional warp powers

1:39:27

obviously, and all that kind of stuff. So

1:39:29

through like maybe with some warp fuckery

1:39:31

sprinkled in there, you could get that

1:39:33

natural evolution. Yeah, and it could

1:39:36

be that the tyrannids are also like, there

1:39:40

is some intelligence in them, right? With

1:39:42

the whole just all consciousness. So

1:39:44

like humans, humans are really terrible, but

1:39:46

living in equilibrium with their environments. Maybe

1:39:48

in their galaxy, they were like the

1:39:51

dominant species, they created a consciousness. They're like,

1:39:54

hey, let's just eat things forever

1:39:57

and there you go. They're just like a metaphor

1:39:59

for. humans and

1:40:01

satiable less never

1:40:05

ending consumption. Yeah tiny plastic

1:40:07

soldiers I know. Exactly. So

1:40:10

here's part of my work on theory. So I

1:40:14

think they were made and I've said this on

1:40:16

a very old episode of lore hammer so some

1:40:18

of you might have heard this theory. So

1:40:21

yeah they were made but they were made from who

1:40:24

knows what in another galaxy and their purpose

1:40:26

is so you have

1:40:28

a galaxy spanning empire. You still need

1:40:30

resources. Your galaxy is millions of years

1:40:32

old and you've had this empire going

1:40:34

for millions of years. You run out

1:40:36

of resources so you create this race

1:40:39

that can go to other galaxies. They're

1:40:41

basically drones that go to other galaxies

1:40:43

feed on all the biomass all the

1:40:45

resources and then bring it back home.

1:40:47

So it's that too they

1:40:49

have two parts they're part collector and part

1:40:51

soldier. That

1:40:54

makes sense. Okay in your

1:40:56

mind does the sending out race

1:40:58

control them or did they get

1:41:00

taken over by them and accidentally

1:41:02

kill themselves too? I don't

1:41:05

go too far into it but like it could go either

1:41:07

way but I like to think that no

1:41:10

it's working as planned and maybe like

1:41:12

the the hive synapses

1:41:14

like the psychic communication of

1:41:17

the people from another

1:41:19

galaxy like the original creators and that's

1:41:21

what I mean. Could it be tyrannids

1:41:24

themselves? It could

1:41:26

be tyrannids. Oh oh like tyrannids for tyrannids

1:41:28

to do this? It's all tyrannids all the

1:41:30

way down. Well that

1:41:33

was some sort of like maybe like the warrior

1:41:35

is what they actually look like. Right

1:41:37

exactly and then they branched off. Yeah

1:41:39

they just created evolutions of themselves to

1:41:41

go out and yeah like once you

1:41:43

unlock bioengineering like does your base form

1:41:46

matter even anymore? Maybe only to that

1:41:48

the elite or the religious rank or

1:41:50

whatever you know. That's kind of cool

1:41:52

actually. I like

1:41:54

it because it that actually kind of works well

1:41:56

with like everything

1:41:58

about them is consistent. consuming, but it has

1:42:01

a purpose other than just replication.

1:42:03

Yeah, because if your goal is to make

1:42:05

your species survive, just

1:42:11

consuming everything and then leaving

1:42:13

husks everywhere, that doesn't

1:42:15

do that. So the idea that

1:42:17

it's a harvesting makes much more sense. I like

1:42:20

that. Yeah.

1:42:24

I've never been a super big fan of this old one

1:42:26

thing. To me, there's just nothing really

1:42:28

of substance there, but so many people mention it

1:42:30

and really like it. And I would love to

1:42:32

hear maybe somebody join the Patreon next episode and

1:42:34

join our live chat, and you can tell me

1:42:36

why you like this one. Did I do a

1:42:38

good job kind of describing it? Because

1:42:41

to me, there's just nothing really there, really. Like,

1:42:43

you got bioengineering, but even the way

1:42:45

the old ones bioengineer, they seed. They

1:42:49

seed planets in hope that a race sprouts up

1:42:51

that they can then use. Sometimes it's orch, and

1:42:53

you're like, oh, what did we do? And sometimes

1:42:56

it's Eldar. That

1:42:58

makes sense to you, because the way the

1:43:00

Eldar made things, or not the Eldar, the

1:43:02

old ones made things, is a little bit

1:43:04

more uniform, and it

1:43:06

doesn't have this, I

1:43:08

don't know, tyrannism are a little bit more horror looking,

1:43:11

whereas the stuff the old ones makes

1:43:13

is a little bit more in

1:43:15

keeping with the aesthetic

1:43:17

of a lot of bipedal.

1:43:19

Two eyes and nose and mouth.

1:43:21

Yeah, they look fairly normal, as

1:43:24

far as the human is concerned. Whereas like

1:43:26

the tyrannism is completely alien. And

1:43:29

you're like, oh, what's a good thing to

1:43:31

make for warriors? We're frogs. Let's make these things that look

1:43:33

like they would eat us all the time. Perfect. Yeah,

1:43:38

I don't know. I've never been a fan of this one, but

1:43:40

I'm glad we were able to share it. If you guys have

1:43:42

any arguments or counter arguments, send them on in. I'd love to

1:43:44

read them on the Discord or however we get them. Do

1:43:47

you guys have any other thoughts on that? Just the

1:43:49

ineffectiveness of them specifically to target

1:43:51

Necrons just doesn't make sense. That

1:43:54

is a good argument. That's the only one. Like

1:43:56

I said, in my affirmation

1:43:58

of the argument. I

1:44:02

don't think there's any evidence to say it's old

1:44:04

ones specifically, but I do think they were created.

1:44:07

That's the only way that makes sense to me. Look

1:44:09

at this creationist over here. Well,

1:44:15

that was an episode of Lorghammer, boys. How

1:44:17

do we feel, Lucy-Goosey? Pretty

1:44:20

nice. I feel cleansed. Feels

1:44:24

good. It feels good to be back in the seat. Shoulders

1:44:28

are stiff. I

1:44:30

got a little fear pucker going. Fuck,

1:44:32

the whole time. Do

1:44:34

you ever guess when you're painting and you

1:44:36

hunch a little bit, do you ever get

1:44:38

that line in your belly where it's like...

1:44:41

I've been hunched over for too long. Yeah, you

1:44:43

hunch your line and you get that fold in

1:44:45

your belly that gets red. I got

1:44:47

that right now. And then

1:44:50

you have to lift the fold down and get the

1:44:52

jam and stuff out. Yeah, that happens. Or

1:44:55

hammer players are going to evolve to be like hunchbacks.

1:44:58

You know it's true. You're not

1:45:00

reproducing. Come on. I

1:45:03

am. Dude, this is dad hammer. We

1:45:06

are reproducing. Dad hammer. We are. Cool.

1:45:11

Well, closing thoughts on the

1:45:13

whole episode I guess. Thanks for joining in. I'm

1:45:15

not sure, honestly, I haven't looked in that chat

1:45:17

room to see how that went. Maybe James, let

1:45:19

me know. This was our first time doing it,

1:45:22

so we were kind of experimenting. Yeah,

1:45:24

we had a few people in there, people chatting

1:45:26

in there. Cool. Yeah, cool. Come.

1:45:28

Well, if you guys want to do that, it will

1:45:31

be cool. We eventually want to break

1:45:33

into having one call in on the show and

1:45:35

like, hey, what did you think of the

1:45:37

old one? You can actually then yell at us what you thought.

1:45:39

So that'll be an interesting dynamic. But

1:45:41

in order to do that, you have to go to Patreon and

1:45:44

go to Lorehammer Patreon. And you can throw us a couple

1:45:46

bucks and that really helps the show. And you get some

1:45:48

extra kind of cool goodies with it. You

1:45:51

can also go check out the

1:45:53

listener Lore podcast. And that's

1:45:55

on a separate podcast feed and sending your lawyer

1:45:58

to that Lorehammer podcast at Gmail dot com. Chris

1:46:01

Offison, what do you got to say for yourself? Yeah,

1:46:04

hopefully you'll have me back for the

1:46:06

next episode. And I'm

1:46:08

reaching out, I'm already putting feelings out on

1:46:11

the internet. Like who else can I get

1:46:13

in this chat room with me? So we'll

1:46:15

see. Yeah, I mean Christian can't even

1:46:18

get a solid internet connection. Come

1:46:22

over here and use yours. That's right. Yeah,

1:46:26

that's the craziest thing. I'm down in Panama and

1:46:28

Christian had worse internet than

1:46:30

me. That's fine. He's

1:46:33

not even just in Panama. You're on an island.

1:46:37

Yeah. Yeah,

1:46:41

if you like Christian, I don't know why you would go

1:46:43

check out Star Wars, but Jordan's there. You like Jordan, so

1:46:45

go check out Star Wars. Fun

1:46:48

show about Star Wars, which

1:46:50

is gay now apparently. The

1:46:52

force is a woman. Lesbians

1:46:55

are giving immaculate conception now. I'm sure you

1:46:57

tell us all about the goodies over at

1:46:59

Star Wars. And if you want

1:47:01

to get ahold of James. James

1:47:04

Complaints@gmail.com. You

1:47:06

know where it is. It's hot mail. It's hot

1:47:08

mail. Yeah, yeah, yeah. James Complaints at hot mail.

1:47:11

Send me your complaints. Tell me I'm an idiot. Cool,

1:47:15

man. This was a lot of

1:47:17

fun, boys. Awesome. Like I said, go join

1:47:19

the Patreon. Our next episode, I'm thinking we

1:47:21

dip into, we carry this story on. We

1:47:24

kind of talk about Malkador the Sigillite. How

1:47:27

do you feel? It's a big topic. It's a

1:47:29

big topic. He's like the father of everything, so. He's

1:47:32

a cool guy. Yeah. If

1:47:36

ever the Emperor had one compassion for one,

1:47:38

or one care for one person, it was

1:47:40

him.