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A warning before we begin. This podcast

0:23

is explicit in every way. And this

0:25

episode includes profane language

0:27

and descriptions of sex.

0:32

I was at one of my friend's house and

0:35

we were just hanging out. We just always

0:37

hang out. And Trick caught.

0:40

This is Trina.

0:41

The Miami rapper goes by many names.

0:44

The baddest bitch. Diamond

0:46

Princess. Trina Rockstar.

0:50

And when we sat down with her in Miami, we

0:52

asked her about this one night in 1998 that set

0:55

her on the path to earning all those titles.

0:58

He happened to call

1:01

my friend and her name is

1:03

Janie. She was the one answering

1:05

the phone for him. And he was like, what you guys

1:07

doing? And she was like, oh, we just hanging out chilling. He

1:09

said, come to the studio. And so I'm in the background

1:11

like, for what? On the other end of the line

1:14

was Trick Daddy Dallas.

1:16

Miami dade Mainstay and

1:18

a friend of Trina's from her Liberty City neighborhood.

1:20

He was like, who is that Trina? She was like, yeah, he was like,

1:22

put on the phone so I can get on the phone. And

1:25

then he was like, man, y'all come to the studio now. I

1:27

got something I want you to do. I was like, what is it? He was

1:29

like, just come, just come. He's like, I can't explain

1:31

it.

1:32

Now when Trina and the rest of her girls pulled up,

1:35

Trick was kicking it in the studio with a bunch of dudes.

1:38

We know all the guys, so it's like it's always family. It was

1:40

a family thing, so it was cool. And then he goes,

1:42

come in the studio. I want you to hear something.

1:45

["I Want You To Hear Something"] And

1:48

we go in the studio and he plays

1:51

the Nairick. You don't know, nigga,

1:53

that a represent like me Who say some

1:55

shit like me, one who a lady dick like me

1:57

I'm a bitch, you don't know I'm n***a Who

2:00

do the shit that I do? Run through your whole

2:02

little truth. Pay for it, if I got two of

2:04

you, no real niggas. Then he

2:06

was like, I want you to get on the record. Now I'm

2:08

thinking, oh, maybe I'ma say, you

2:10

know, it's Trina or something like, what's up, it's

2:12

Trina. My name's just a real little

2:15

intro-y thing. You know, a little skit, a back

2:17

and forth. He goes, so

2:19

he plays his verse, his eight

2:22

bars. And

2:25

then he goes, now I need you to come in right here.

2:27

And I was like, listen, I

2:29

was like, play what you said again. And

2:31

then I was like, and what am I supposed to say? Heh

2:34

heh heh. At first she didn't want to do the

2:36

record. And I was like, Trina,

2:39

you got to do the record. That's

2:41

Trick. Trick had already laid down

2:43

a verse on NAMM that had some out-of-pocket,

2:46

thugged-out bounce to it. Exactly

2:49

what the Day County mayor was known for. Like,

2:52

he was running through a whole clique of baddies, killing

2:55

a man, and then buying rounds for everyone in

2:57

the club afterwards. But

2:59

still, it wasn't enough to set the track

3:01

apart. He wanted it to be

3:04

a call and response.

3:05

And for that, he needed somebody

3:07

he could go toe to toe with. He want me

3:10

to like be combative with

3:12

him, go like girl versus guy. And

3:14

I gotta like kill

3:17

him in my part. He was like, and it gotta be nasty. You just

3:19

gotta talk and da-da-da. He was just selling

3:21

this stuff.

3:21

Yeah, Trick was not letting up. And

3:23

she was like, I

3:25

don't know how to rap. I said, we're not rapping.

3:29

I was like, all we're going to do is be ourselves. And

3:32

I was like, just be you, cuss me out.

3:35

After all that, Trina was gassed

3:38

up enough to give it a shot. Now,

3:41

there's a lot of studio sessions that have become

3:43

hip hop legend. The wet and wild

3:45

Miami anthem, Nana Gitt, is definitely

3:47

one of them.

3:48

So much so that the story of

3:50

his making has been told a million different

3:52

ways, and usually giving credit to

3:54

Trick Daddy as the one who wrote the raunchiest

3:57

parts of Trina's iconic clap.

4:00

But

4:00

this is how Trina tells it to

4:02

us. We were the only ones in the studio. Just

4:04

me and my friends, I made him get out. I was nervous. I didn't want

4:06

to do it in front of him. So I just had the girls in there.

4:09

So if I sounded crazy, they could be like,

4:11

nah, that's lame. You ain't going to say that. You got to say

4:13

it like this. So that was my

4:15

energy with my friends. And they just wowed. So

4:18

they was ready. With all the guys gone,

4:20

they got to work, thinking of the nastiest,

4:23

hardest lyrics they could to outdo

4:25

Trick's verse.

4:27

And so I was just like, oh my gosh, I'm not

4:29

saying it. Yeah, you gotta say that. I was like, no, I'm

4:31

gonna say this. No, say this. And I was like,

4:34

should I say this? That's true nasty.

4:36

It was like, no, that's perfect. My

4:38

friends, I have the nine

4:41

of fivers and I have

4:43

the all nighters. So in the balance

4:45

of both of them, there you go. That's

4:48

how the verse came.

4:49

Runnin' it back on studio speakers,

4:51

she had the guys come back in and listen.

5:07

So when Trick came in and Corby

5:09

and all the guys, Ross, everybody, they

5:12

went crazy. This joint

5:15

was so far, it got Trina a

5:17

record deal that night.

5:31

She

5:35

wasn't even looking for one. This song

5:38

was the start of Trina's career. a

5:40

career that would have a lasting impact on

5:42

hip-hop. Because even though she

5:44

didn't know it right then, she wasn't

5:46

just speaking for herself and a couple of girlfriends.

5:49

I was raw, unapologetic, I

5:51

stood on what I meant.

5:53

I believe in who I am. The game didn't

5:55

make me, I made the game. I made it. That's

5:57

why I breed a whole unit.

6:00

of bad bitches.

6:02

I'm Sydney Madden. I'm

6:05

Rodney Carmichael. And from NPR

6:07

Music, this is Louder Than

6:09

a Riot. Where we confront the double standard

6:12

that's become the standard. On every

6:14

episode of the season, we tackle one

6:16

unwritten rule of hip-hop that holds the entire

6:18

culture back.

6:20

And one that a new generation of rap refuses

6:22

to stand

6:23

for. From

6:26

the moment she stepped in the game, the game. Trina

6:28

was pushing P in ways nobody

6:30

ever heard before. She raised the bar

6:33

on raunchy lyrics and put Miami hip

6:35

hop on the map. But birthing

6:37

the whole universe of bad bitches didn't

6:39

always come easy. As Trina was wiping

6:42

her Gucci pumps on dusty old stereotypes

6:44

of a black women's sexuality, rap's

6:46

old guard was constantly trying to drag her

6:48

through more dirt, reducing baddie

6:50

bars to the pejorative of pussy rap without

6:53

hearing the real message. It's

6:56

still

6:56

a double standard because we can say this,

6:58

that, and the other, and this could be sexual,

7:01

whatever, and it's a look down upon. But

7:03

the guys say the same thing, and everybody's celebrating it.

7:06

On this episode, rule number four.

7:10

It ain't chicken if you got it.

7:28

There's just

7:30

something about Miami. The

7:33

vibrancy, the Caribbean flavor,

7:36

the heat. where humidity

7:39

from the swamplands mingles with the sweat

7:41

of the nightclubs, only to be washed

7:43

away by salt water and frozen liquor. As

7:47

the plastic-surgery capital of America, it's

7:49

a place where sexy reigns supreme.

7:52

One of the only places, as Trina says,

7:55

you can go to the supermarket in nothing but a bikini

7:58

and not get looked at sideways. And

8:01

it's where everyone else comes to play

8:04

and tap into their sexy. Let

8:06

their freak flags fly.

8:09

And the hip hop this city has given

8:10

us definitely reflects that energy.

8:14

When we flew down south to meet up with Trina before

8:16

even speaking, she reminded us

8:18

why she is the baddest bitch. She

8:21

pulled up to the Slip N Slide studios in a burnt

8:24

orange Rolls Royce Wraith,

8:25

making as look super broke in

8:28

our Toyota Corolla Uber. And

8:30

she agreed to start the interview only after

8:32

she got a full face beat, ate her

8:34

delivered soul food, and got all the

8:36

sauce off her neon acrylic nails.

8:40

Once we settled in, she

8:41

laughed while reminiscing about what

8:43

happened after she laid down her verse

8:46

on NAMM all those years ago. Let's

8:50

talk about it. I'm sorry. I'm

8:52

sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay.

8:56

In the summer of 1998, Nan

8:58

N***a dropped as the lead single off Trick Daddy's

9:00

album. And Trina didn't know it was such a

9:02

big deal until the night Trick invited

9:05

her to his birthday party.

9:08

Get to the birthday party, we're in like this little VIP

9:10

little thing in the back and Trick

9:13

is about to go in and perform. Okay, we gonna,

9:16

I'm behind the curtains. I'm standing up here with my girls.

9:18

We standing up there, we bopping this up. Shrena and her

9:20

girls were running up the table tab and

9:22

they had the whole VIP section going up for Trick.

9:25

But then Trick's team interrupted them. Then

9:28

they came and said, we're gonna

9:30

bring you up and do now. I was like, no. I'm

9:33

not gonna go out here in this club in front of

9:35

these people and do this song. Even though she laid

9:37

the verse, it never occurred to her

9:39

she'd actually have to perform it. She

9:42

had never done that before. And

9:44

it was like, yes you are, come on, you got this out and

9:46

I was like, oh no. And

9:49

this is his birthday party. They was like, oh, you can't let him

9:51

down. This is his birthday party. Everybody's here. It's

9:53

a big old thing. These girls gonna be waiting. They gonna love

9:55

it. And I remember when the sun was coming up.

9:58

I think I had the most anxiety.

10:00

Because like, this is the first

10:02

time I'm going to be in a... This

10:05

place was packed. This

10:07

was a big moment for Trick. He was bubbling

10:10

out of control. And he was up on stage

10:12

performing his songs,

10:13

acting like the king of the city. Then

10:16

the beat for Nan dropped. And

10:19

they played the song. Now he's

10:21

doing his part, the hook comes on. Now I can

10:23

hear when it's time for my part. I

10:26

did not step out behind

10:28

the curtain.

10:29

Trina's friends didn't want her to miss her moment.

10:32

They literally pushed her through the curtain

10:34

onto the stage. I did

10:36

not say one word. My

10:39

eyes was closed. I was so nervous.

10:42

I didn't say nothing. I was

10:45

just standing there. All I could

10:47

hear was

10:48

every word for word from the girls

10:51

in the club. I

10:53

was terrified. Screaming

10:56

it, screaming it, screaming. It felt like I was, I

10:59

don't even know where I was at. The girls in the club

11:01

were so hyped to see Trina.

11:03

It didn't even matter that she wasn't rapping. They

11:06

were rapping her verse for her.

11:20

Trina smiles as she remembers their faces now.

11:23

Those girls helped check off her stage fright because

11:26

she saw in their faces what her

11:28

lyrics were doing to them, smashing

11:30

the culture of shame around women's pursuit of

11:33

pleasure.

11:34

She saw the joy and the power it gave

11:36

them,

11:37

and something really clicked. She

11:39

knew she could work with this. From

11:41

there, Trina was thrust onto a year-long

11:44

tour with Trick, doing nah, night

11:47

after night after night.

11:49

I mean we're going into 1999

11:52

and the whole 99 we was on a tour so I

11:54

was just on the road working doing the song so at that

11:56

moment it was always treating

11:59

us screaming the girls going

12:00

We travel everywhere, all over the

12:02

world, and it would be the same reaction

12:04

from girls. It doesn't

12:06

matter what race, what size, what color.

12:09

Everybody scream. I'm talking about all the way

12:11

in Tokyo, Japan. Like,

12:13

everywhere you go, they were, like, addicted to

12:15

this verse and this record. It

12:18

was just beautiful women everywhere, like, crying and...

12:21

Well, I want to talk about the reactions.

12:23

Like, you're saying, like, you went all over the world, and you could

12:25

tell how people were locked in and really

12:28

feeling this verse, Not just because it was... Raunchy.

12:31

Not just because it was raunchy. It was also just

12:33

like a point of,

12:35

like, Eureka, sexual liberation

12:37

on a whole nother level. Never level. Fuck

12:40

five, six best friends? Yeah. Who

12:42

was saying that? I got that from my friends. But that's

12:44

what I'm saying. But I'm saying,

12:46

like, you weren't afraid to say it. No, because I was like,

12:48

I'm going to be like, yeah, mess with one or two. She was like, girl,

12:50

that's not enough. And I

12:53

was thinking, is it just us that has this

12:55

mindset? My friends just waved

12:58

out of control. Like, that was my

13:00

first

13:00

thing. And

13:03

then once the record came out, I was

13:05

like, well, all these girls

13:07

is out of control. Everybody's

13:10

out of control because even

13:12

if this is not your story in your life

13:14

and you haven't even talked to five

13:16

or six different people in life, you

13:19

are saying this with conviction. You

13:21

know, so it was beyond the sexual part. It

13:23

was just, I think it was more like just

13:26

that woman, that girl, like that

13:28

beastie of it of like, I'm just finna tell it

13:30

like it is and say what I gotta say.

13:35

We

13:35

talked to a certified Trina scholar

13:38

to break down where that conviction comes from. The

13:40

only way I can categorize how I felt as an adult

13:43

when I first heard Trina's name verse is

13:46

that I

13:48

understood in that moment that I

13:50

could either like be the

13:53

kind of girl that people expected

13:56

me to be and wanted me to be, or I could

13:58

just do what the fuck I wanted to do.

14:00

And like, I

14:02

was like, oh, I think I want to do what the fuck I want to

14:04

do. Like, period. Cecily

14:07

Bowen is the author of Bad, Fat,

14:09

Black Girl, Notes from a Trap Feminist,

14:12

and the host of Purse First, a podcast

14:14

about the girls and the gays in rap. I

14:17

think when we talk about

14:20

how sexuality is like denied

14:24

for women, and I think particularly for black

14:26

women, It's this idea

14:29

that it starts so young

14:31

that we just

14:34

don't even get to consider that sex or

14:37

like our sexuality is something that we can really

14:39

enjoy and like

14:41

enjoy experiencing, enjoy developing,

14:44

enjoy exploring,

14:47

defining,

14:49

almost immediately is just really

14:52

meant not to exist.

14:54

denial of women's sexuality makes

14:56

sense, given the way men are

14:58

assumed power in society and taught

15:01

that their gratification is what should be prioritized.

15:04

And for black women specifically, this

15:07

denial goes deeper

15:08

because of adultification bias and stereotypes

15:11

like the Jezebel

15:12

that render black women and girls as

15:15

promiscuous deviants only

15:17

existing in service of of men's sexual

15:19

needs. There is

15:21

a freedom in sexuality, in

15:24

like sexual expression, just like in

15:26

creative expression, or intellectual

15:29

expression, you know, in

15:31

dance, body expression, you know, whatever

15:33

kind of like

15:36

expression that there is to have. Like,

15:38

I think the sexual

15:40

language is right up there. And the

15:44

assumption for so long is that that is

15:46

a freedom that only like men have gotten

15:48

to experience. And those

15:50

freedoms are not only reinforced in hip-hop,

15:53

they're glorified and rewarded.

15:56

A lot of the ways that men in hip-hop

15:58

talk about sex. is essentially

16:01

representative of how they've already achieved

16:05

the freedom that they seek from those

16:07

heteronormative ideas because they relish

16:09

in the fact that they can fuck who they want, when

16:12

they want, period.

16:13

And bet not nobody question them about

16:15

it, right? Trina's verse on there completely

16:18

changed the narrative though and showed

16:20

that freedom off to women.

16:22

Told them to hope for it.

16:24

She wanted to keep that same energy on her debut

16:26

album too.

16:27

Like, what am I gonna do? This is a whole album. It's not just

16:29

a record, it's not a verse. This is a real thing.

16:32

Now what am I going to do? I got to captivate

16:34

all these women that are screaming.

16:43

The first album, the label was all involved. It

16:46

was all in the studio. Everybody was there, like, we were

16:48

trying to create records. We had all these producers.

16:50

Everybody sending me different kind of stuff. And

16:53

I remember this

16:56

is new for me. So I'm

16:58

all ears. Any suggestions you guys got, let's

17:00

just do it. Unless it's something I totally feel

17:03

uncomfortable about, I'll be like, mm, but

17:05

I didn't have that really. It was just all about a

17:07

whole team building, myself, Trick, Ross,

17:10

Trey plus Six, everybody on the label.

17:11

Because they're creating me

17:14

now. Like this is the girl from

17:16

the only girl on Slip and Slide and we

17:18

got this big deal with Atlanta. We got to make this gotta

17:21

be right.

17:22

One of the biggest influences on the album was

17:24

Trick Daddy. And he knew what the streets

17:26

wanted. If Kim and Foxy were

17:28

mixing their femme fatale sex appeal with

17:31

New York attitude, Trick knew the

17:33

secret to Trina's sauce had to be reppin' the

17:35

South to the fullest.

17:37

So he told her, straight up. I said, Trina,

17:39

the only way you can compete with this shit

17:41

is you got to go straight Miami.

17:44

If you stick to your shit, be

17:47

able to hold a conversation that sound

17:49

exactly how you sound on your record.

17:51

That's exactly what she did. Trina

17:54

dropped her debut album, The Baddest Bitch,

17:57

in 2000.

18:00

and don't be scared, cause if you curious, just

18:02

ask me hoes and yes, dicks, like the times quite natural,

18:04

cause I'm the baddest bitch, run up the store.

18:07

The baddest bitch came out and it was

18:10

just like, the

18:12

baddest bitch. That's

18:15

a title I aspire to. Like

18:18

that, that term bad

18:20

bitch,

18:22

to me is a direct result

18:24

of Trina's impact, among

18:27

other things. Like, truly

18:29

the blueprint, truly the blueprint for the girls.

18:32

The blueprint is right, because the point

18:34

of the song is not just to be raunchy. Trina

18:37

was giving game,

18:39

because to her,

18:40

it wasn't just about promoting sexual freedom, but

18:43

financial freedom too. Those two

18:45

ideals were intertwined. Okay, let's start with,

18:47

I got game for you young hoes, don't grow to

18:49

be a dumb hoe, that's a no-no. See, if you off

18:52

the chain, stay ahead of the game, save up

18:54

by a condo, set a pussy by the grins,

18:56

and I want you on the bins, another week he said a rims

18:58

like.

18:59

I got a game for you dumbholes, don't go

19:01

to be a dumbhole, that's a no-no. See

19:04

if you off the chain, stay ahead of the game, save

19:07

up by condo, sell a whiskey by the grass,

19:09

and they want you on the bed, another week

19:11

he said a rims. See if I had the chance

19:13

to be a virgin again, I'd be fucking by

19:16

the time I see y'all.

19:16

It's literally like the building block. It was literally.

19:19

It's like a financial class. It was like set a goal. He

19:21

was like, don't be an idiot, set a goal

19:23

for yourself.

19:26

Work to attain that, but also the

19:28

people you were fucking should be helping you attain that.

19:31

Set a high price so that you can reach the goal faster.

19:34

They need to throw a little some extra and get you some rims

19:37

on that bitch. There's something so methodical

19:39

about that recipe for

19:42

success that is... She

19:49

made it sound so

19:51

simple. To

19:55

set you up on square one, the broke

19:57

nigga has to like exit the equation.

20:00

As an album, the baddest bitch

20:02

kicked in the door. She

20:05

had Pearl Clutcher as extra pressed and

20:07

free clothes flocking. Yeah, it was booty

20:09

based from a woman's point of view. And

20:12

coming from Miami, at a time where Uncle

20:14

Luke and two live crew were basically using

20:16

women as props to sell album covers,

20:18

Katrina refused to be used as an accessory.

20:22

Mm-hm, she was breaking out of the boxes

20:24

that women and rap had been put into,

20:27

refusing to teeter on some Madonna

20:30

horsey saw.

20:31

She toppled that thing over completely. And

20:34

the real key to her titillating word play,

20:36

she never let anyone else dictate

20:39

her worth. But as she got more comfortable

20:41

as an artist, Trina wanted to grow,

20:43

to wrap about topics besides her sexual

20:46

prowess. It was an obvious shift

20:48

away from the original raw image,

20:50

but it wasn't a shift away from what Trina naturally

20:53

liked. It was about being

20:55

nasty as she wanted to be, when

20:57

she wanted to be. I just wanted to challenge

20:59

myself to see if I could do different

21:02

than the baddest. I

21:04

just wanted to, I wanted different sounds. I wanted

21:06

to try just different stuff that I wouldn't have normally

21:09

tried from the first album because I didn't even know to try

21:11

it. I didn't know the tempo was gonna change. I didn't know

21:13

my mindset was gonna

21:14

change. So Trina started experimenting

21:16

a little bit and working with other producers

21:19

like Missy Elliott, Just Blaze,

21:21

Kanye West, and in between

21:24

flexing joints like B.R. Wright.

21:26

Me and Lula in the cut supreme, you want

21:28

things to touch the cream. So many cats want to

21:30

touch the queen, I'm living life out the chest of

21:32

the tree. I'm money right. She

21:36

dabble with getting vulnerable and introspective

21:38

over sold samples. Me and you, Trina, who

21:40

asked the same question. We decided

21:42

when and which hoes we could fuck with, shop

21:45

with, club with, get into some nug shit.

21:47

Turn them on to niggas who was deeper to that drug

21:50

shit, get money, fuck them. Trina knew the

21:52

guys at the label would not understand

21:54

that. They would be like, Thini, what are you

21:56

doing? Let us hear the records. Don't come with all these R&B slow

21:58

records. So I stopped them. listening to the music,

22:00

I would just record the songs, put them together,

22:03

and then let them hear the songs. But she couldn't

22:05

keep quiet when she was cooking up forever.

22:08

Once it got closer to me turning my album in, we did like a

22:10

studio in session. So I would let the owner

22:12

take on a couple of guys that work at the label, my

22:14

people, everybody,

22:15

and we would play the

22:18

records. And everybody

22:21

would just voice their opinion of what they like, what they don't

22:23

like, whatever, whatever. And I would just sit there and listen,

22:26

taking all the notes, taking all the stuff.

22:27

Taking in all this feedback from a room

22:29

full of guys, Trina saw her perspective

22:32

and her artistic vision were not

22:34

being taken seriously. And then

22:37

I started having like

22:40

this thing where I got

22:42

to make sure I

22:44

stand on what I believe, like my say so

22:46

got to matter. I don't like it or love it. I'm

22:48

not doing it. Nobody's

22:49

not going to force me to do nothing I don't want to do. Nothing.

22:52

I'm not going to do it because it's going to please you. If I don't really

22:55

feel it,

22:56

I'm not going to do it. Once

22:58

I overcame that, nothing could phase

23:00

me. Because I was

23:03

in control. It's my narrative, I'm going

23:05

to control it. Choosing

23:07

when and where she wanted to be sexual,

23:10

that's the liberation that gave her agency.

23:13

That's how she cemented herself.

23:15

To be bigger than one verse, one

23:17

song, one album. So

23:20

she broke the mold with her sophomore release,

23:23

Diamond Princess.

23:33

Doing her own thing on Diamond Princess was

23:36

an even bigger flip of the script than fans

23:38

even knew. Because

23:39

growing her sound

23:41

also meant outgrowing the person who

23:44

first put her on. They was only used to this one

23:46

thing, this one lane, the trick daddy lane,

23:49

the hood, the rod, that's the lane. Everybody

23:51

came out that way. Trick is a whole thug. I'm

23:53

not a thug, okay? I

23:55

don't want to be a thug. I never wanted to be a thug, so

23:58

Trick's gonna do his thing. and

24:00

I'm gonna do my thing.

24:02

I said boy, rewind that back

24:06

If you talk sh-t, yo, you might get slapped

24:08

But nothing's ever quite that simple Especially

24:12

when it comes to trick that Boy,

24:13

rewind that back Up

24:17

in the spot, you got your blocks on lock and hey

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started at RosettaStone.com. So

24:55

how much time do we have to talk? Fast. How

24:58

long y'all need? We need an aisle,

25:00

man. There ain't nothing to talk about

25:02

in a whole aisle. Yeah, we going in depth. I need good answers.

25:05

You're not going to need an aisle. You can. We going

25:07

in depth. We want stories, man.

25:12

This is how Trick Daddy Dollas

25:14

welcomes us to his humble abode. And

25:16

actually, it's anything but a

25:18

neighborhood located in the Miramar section

25:21

of Miami. full of suburban

25:23

mini-machines and palm trees. It looks

25:25

like the Rest Haven, where Florida rappers

25:28

go to live the dream.

25:29

Apparently Uncle Luke stays a couple streets over.

25:34

Inside Trick's house, there's a

25:36

Scarface-sized aquarium and

25:38

a life-sized mural of rap's favorite

25:40

fictional drug lord hanging on

25:42

the wall. But Trick's the king of

25:45

this castle. It munition its pit bulls

25:47

one second, talking trash

25:49

to his girlfriend in the kitchen the next. in the next.

25:59

you and Trina's relationship.

26:01

You said she's your little sister, but tell her. Like

26:03

my little sister, but Trina is, both

26:05

of us is obnoxious, that very

26:08

obnoxious, right? Both of us is

26:10

high-natured freaks.

26:12

We have arguments about everything. Brother and sister argue

26:14

about everything. We

26:16

argue about everything. I mean,

26:20

but it's like, did

26:23

you, you can't argue with her. I can

26:25

argue with her. you better not say nothing to her. Their

26:30

relationship was actually semending long

26:32

before rap. Back when Trina dated

26:34

Trix older brother Hollywood. Trina

26:36

was still in high school when Hollywood got murdered. And

26:39

Trix, he was in prison at the time

26:41

on some drug related charges. And

26:43

losing someone they both loved is sealed their

26:45

bond. Just like real siblings. It

26:48

changed the trajectory of both of their lives too. But

26:51

even after all their shared success, Trick

26:53

and Trina still argue like brother and sister,

26:56

and nothing between them is more contentious

26:58

than Trina's second album,

27:00

Diamond Princess.

27:03

I have nothing to do with the Diamond Princess. I don't

27:05

like the Diamond Princess. Why not? I

27:07

took, cause the baddest bitch, everybody could be the baddest

27:09

bitch. Everybody can't beat the Diamond Princess, and I always

27:12

told her that.

27:13

So with the Diamond Princess is somebody

27:16

that's, oh, glitz

27:19

and glamor, you know, High

27:22

end clothes, high profile

27:25

boyfriends, but

27:28

the baddest bitch,

27:30

the baddest bitch can be a bitch who got a set,

27:33

who not a wallow.

27:34

The baddest bitch can be a bitch who do fraud. Everybody,

27:37

anybody can be the baddest bitch. How

27:39

did it feel to have to see her grow

27:44

in a different direction creatively than what you thought

27:46

she should go in? She

27:48

started hanging around new people. She changed

27:51

her management team and they was, they

27:53

was on some UUU and I'm telling her

27:55

us, us, us,

27:57

Because us is more powerful than you,

27:59

you, you. Now these weren't just creative

28:01

differences they were having. What Trick

28:03

was seeing in Trina was growth, autonomy.

28:07

The baddest bitch was blossoming into her own boss.

28:09

The best thing Trick could do

28:11

was move out the way. I don't know if she ever

28:13

went in a different direction. I

28:16

just know that the people around her never

28:19

wanted her to share none

28:21

of her fame, none

28:23

of her stardom

28:26

with me for some reason. I'm gonna tell you how

28:28

big it was, how deep it was. Two

28:33

months after Nan came out, had a

28:35

big show lined up. Trina

28:40

took my hype man, my DJ, my security,

28:42

cause she had a show. I was sitting

28:44

there, couldn't go to my show. But

28:48

weren't y'all performing together? She,

28:50

this was her first show. Her management

28:53

was separate from mine. They were so excited

28:56

that she was getting bookings without even having

28:58

an album out that they wouldn't hear them book

29:00

the show and they asked my DJ

29:03

and my management and my team,

29:05

they go, yeah, we'll go with her, man, just

29:07

go and show us what to do. And

29:10

it's to the point where now it's like,

29:12

you go on in an hour, I say go on where, where

29:14

who? Who gon' hype me? Who gon' be my DJ? And

29:16

they looked around like, oh shit,

29:19

my bad, bruh. That's

29:23

how fast it happened.

29:25

I think Trina's trajectory is different

29:28

because of the fact that she eclipsed

29:30

the person that kind of

29:33

like totally made her. That's Shanita Hubbard,

29:35

a professor and hip-hop journalist.

29:38

I think Trina should get more credit for

29:40

the fact that in order to be able to eclipse trick daddy,

29:42

she had to make a pivot. She had to pour into

29:44

herself a way and pour into her career

29:47

some more. She'll be in an interview and you don't hear

29:49

her even talk about a man sometimes. Sometimes

29:51

she just straight up just talking about her career, talking

29:54

shit. She has no problem centering

29:56

herself fully, right, showing up for herself

29:59

fully.

30:00

It feels like her giving herself her

30:02

own flowers. Trina given herself

30:04

flowers for being able to change up her

30:06

creative direction, for being able

30:08

to pour into herself. That's

30:11

not just a rare opportunity for a rapper. It's

30:14

rare for a lot of black women, period. Especially

30:17

those who get trapped and tripped

30:19

up in the ride or die trope. Shanita

30:22

wrote a whole book about it called

30:24

Ride or Die, a feminist manifesto

30:27

for the wellbeing of black women. The

30:29

Ride or Die is the one that

30:31

does everything and everyone for

30:34

everyone else, right? She gives love

30:36

with no expectation of reciprocity.

30:38

She gives labor with no expectation

30:40

of reciprocity. She gives of herself

30:43

until there's nothing left to give. This

30:45

is unique to black women because

30:49

they have ramifications of,

30:51

the implications and ramifications of mass incarceration,

30:54

right? Systemic

30:57

racism and how we're shut out, right? and the

30:59

way that impacts our family, and the way that

31:01

impacts our finances, has caused

31:04

a lot of black women, a lot to

31:06

be matriarchs, whether they want it to or not, right?

31:09

This is what black womanhood looks like,

31:11

right? Black womanhood looks like giving everything

31:14

to everyone because, you know, holding

31:16

the whole community and everybody down on their back. This

31:18

is what black motherhood looks like, being

31:21

the absolute most for your child and doing,

31:23

this is what good, quote unquote, good mothering looks

31:25

like if you're

31:26

exhausted and there's no social life, right?

31:28

So we start to see these things modeled and

31:31

then we start to internalize it. And it

31:33

is really embedded, it's really celebrated

31:36

in our culture, right? That part.

31:39

And nowhere is the Ride or Die trope more

31:42

celebrated than in rap.

31:44

I need a ride or die chick I

31:47

like the rock, clodder suits and my stash and bag I

31:49

need a ride or die chick I

31:51

push the Cadillac truck with my friends in the bag I

31:54

need a ride to dodge it Can

32:08

I'm the operative, you are the

32:10

enemy. You sound like you're supposed

32:12

to be the O3, Bonnie and Clyde,

32:15

Hovin' B, Hollow whore, I lead

32:17

in his life and say, It's me and

32:19

my girlfriend. Me and my girlfriend.

32:21

Down the rhymes, in the very

32:24

end. You say you're my boyfriend. Me and

32:26

my boyfriend.

32:26

Those standards are not expected

32:29

from men, right? To be called

32:31

our king, you don't have to be down for whatever, right?

32:33

To be called our king. And this is kind

32:36

of laced all throughout so many different hip hop

32:38

songs. We could probably go back and forth over and over

32:40

and talk about the different languages that's

32:43

used to reinforce the same trope. The

32:45

idea that women are nothing without a man,

32:48

that women need to be put on, guided,

32:50

protected. Even the expectation that

32:52

women in rap will always be less than the man

32:54

who put them on.

32:56

Trina transcended all of that. And

32:58

that was her prerogative. She elevated

33:00

and evolved while Trick staged Street.

33:03

And even though Trina and Trick have stayed down

33:05

like four flats over the years, collaborating

33:08

on a half-finished album, a morning radio

33:10

show, and a storyline on reality TV's

33:13

love in Hip Hop Miami,

33:15

it doesn't take much to this day for Trick

33:17

to be reminded that Trina is not

33:19

the ride or die chick sculpted in his image.

33:22

Sitting there in the sunken living room with his crib,

33:25

it started to become clear how he really

33:27

feels about that.

33:29

Let's start by talking about this recent BET

33:31

Hip Hop Awards. BET Hip Hop

33:33

Awards, I didn't get a award. Did

33:36

you notice that? We did. I'd

33:38

never been nominated for award on BET. Did you notice that? And

33:42

I was really mad at BET until

33:44

they gave Trina her award because ain't

33:47

no sugar in my blood. I ain't

33:49

no pussy. I ain't pressed. I ain't friendly.

33:52

I ain't lonely for no attention. As long

33:54

as they gave her her flowers while she was living,

33:56

that's good enough for me too. an

33:59

award.

34:00

as much as Trick might see Trina's award as

34:02

something he can lay claim to, the truth

34:04

is he doesn't own her success.

34:07

And this is something they've fought about countless times

34:09

before. One of those times

34:11

was caught on camera during the Love and Hip

34:13

Hop Reunion episode.

34:14

And this audience have heard Trina

34:17

over the last 10 years. So we heard Trick Daddy,

34:19

hell no. So let's talk about it. It

34:22

wasn't for Trick Daddy, it wasn't for motherfucking

34:24

Trina. It wasn't for the motherfucking

34:26

Trina. There was that clip on Love and Hip Hop Reunion

34:29

where you said without trick there would be no motherfucking

34:31

Trina. And she called

34:33

you out for that. No, that was me

34:35

calling her out. She listened

34:37

to the wrong people. They don't know nothing about music. Listen

34:40

to the one that got you in the position you

34:42

in, the one that helped you, who told you that this

34:44

would work. No, listen to them.

34:47

So from that point on, she

34:49

was mad. Then she said something like, I

34:53

must be scared because I once saw her verse

34:55

was harder than mine. And I was like,

34:57

girl, it wasn't for Trinket,

35:01

there wouldn't be no Trinket.

35:04

But my whole thing was Trinket.

35:06

Listen to me, don't listen to them. They don't know the fuck they

35:08

talking about. The thing

35:10

I think about that comment that

35:13

you made on the reunion show is

35:16

like for a lot of people, I think it

35:19

confirmed a

35:21

lot of either the suspicion either the suspicion

35:24

or like the assumptions that

35:26

people have in the industry about

35:30

prominent women at a time in hip hop that

35:32

were always linked to a dude.

35:34

Right, their entry into the game came

35:36

through a dude. And a lot of time

35:38

the assumption is, oh, that's the puppet

35:41

master. Oh, he's writing all the lyrics.

35:44

Oh, if it wasn't for him, she

35:46

wouldn't be in the game. Oh, she'll never surpass

35:49

his level of achievement. But

35:52

with Trina, it seemed like a lot of that just

35:55

ain't true.

35:56

So when you made that comment- But you understand. you

35:59

understand. A

36:03

lot of these people are characters. Our

36:08

rap name, Trina, name

36:12

is Katrina. Like

36:15

you understand what I'm saying? This is

36:17

Trina, this ain't

36:19

her alter ego.

36:22

This is Trina, Katrina

36:25

Laverne Taylor. I know her, this

36:27

is Trina. Now this

36:29

is where it started to feel like Tric was trying

36:31

to dodge the conversation. That's

36:33

when Sydney asked him, point blank. What

36:36

is Trina Tachu about misogyny

36:38

though? I don't think

36:40

I'm misogynistic. I think I'm realistic.

36:44

She called you misogynistic. I'm realistic.

36:46

I'm an entrepreneur. I'm realistic. I

36:49

don't know. Listen,

36:51

I know what I don't like. A bitch that throw rocks

36:54

and miss. Then when I throw rocks and

36:56

bust them in the head, now they want to call the police.

36:58

Oh, he hit me in the head with the rocks. We were throwing

37:01

rocks at each other, officer. You understand

37:03

what I'm saying?

37:05

Don't make me out of the bad guy. I'm

37:07

not the bad guy, but

37:10

you can turn me into the bad guy. Keep on

37:13

doing what you're doing. Keep on not

37:15

appreciating me. Keep on

37:17

talking slick like you a nigga. So

37:20

finally we found ourselves at the root of it all.

37:23

You may have put Trina on there, but he was

37:25

still a man who feels passed over

37:27

by a woman, even if it is his

37:29

sister, a man who was really

37:32

tired of having to talk about that woman.

37:35

Let's get back to your relationship with Trina,

37:37

right? Your brother-sister relationship, where

37:39

she came- Yeah, and I gotta go, which over

37:41

our end, this whole conversation is about

37:43

Trina. Okay, so- I thought y'all

37:45

wanted to interview me. Y'all asked me everything about Trina.

37:49

have an area like I understand

37:51

you y'all treat me but go ahead

37:53

we gonna ask about three four more questions cuz we

37:55

over an hour already now for the record

37:57

y'all I I swear we did not sit

37:59

out.

38:00

the trick trick daddy. His team

38:02

knew the assignment straight up. And

38:04

by this point it was obvious we

38:06

weren't gonna get any deeper with trick so

38:09

we wrapped up the conversation. I'm

38:11

curious how do you hope to

38:14

be remembered in terms of your your

38:16

work and your collaboration with Trina?

38:20

I like to be remembered as

38:23

I'm the one that was on the NAND nigga. I

38:25

am the originalator, the creator

38:28

of the baddest bitch and that I had a wonderful

38:30

time. I created

38:32

the baddest bitch. If I

38:35

help you get the platform, then I'm your

38:37

creator. I'm Jesus

38:39

Christ. So you think... I'm

38:41

gone. Okay. Compensation over.

38:43

I'm Jesus Christ.

38:46

I created the baddest bitch. And

38:49

this is the point where Trick, in full on

38:52

reality TV mode, stomps out

38:54

of the living room like he's storming off his set.

38:56

Yeah man, dude really walked out on us.

39:00

I know, but not before

39:02

getting one last thing off his chest.

39:22

Talking to Trick was a lot. If

39:24

we thought that having this face-to-face would

39:26

be an opportunity for him to, I don't know,

39:28

maybe take some accountability for the way

39:31

he's treated Trina and talked

39:33

about her over the years, well,

39:36

nah. We were dead wrong.

39:38

He wasn't even trying to hide it. But

39:40

you know what? When we talked to Trina,

39:43

she wasn't fazed. She's been dealing

39:45

with him all her life. Trina's

39:47

my brother. So of course, we

39:50

always have back

39:51

and forth. It's

39:54

and I'm always gonna come out on top because I'm always

39:56

correct and and you're

39:58

misogynistic

39:59

and I'm always gonna call you you out and you know

40:01

that and you could

40:03

play that game with anybody except me. You didn't

40:05

make it, you didn't create me. Right? I did

40:07

a favor for you as my friend. Okay?

40:10

That's what happened. You didn't pay me. I

40:12

did a favor for a friend that turned

40:15

out to be a masterpiece.

40:17

Okay? I made me. Okay?

40:21

You gave me the platform to do what I

40:23

do. I always, I'm always gonna be credit

40:25

for that. I'm always to acknowledge you for that. But

40:27

it took hard work, dedication, writing,

40:30

learning

40:30

how to completely write, learning how

40:32

to form bars. I did NAM for you on one

40:35

album. I'm six albums later. You

40:37

did not make me. I did. I

40:39

worked to make me. I was consistent.

40:42

For all these years, that's what made

40:44

me. I had to let him know that. Don't ever try

40:47

it.

40:47

Trina does acknowledge

40:49

that NAM was a big deal. Especially

40:52

in the era when women's careers depended

40:54

on the power of a man's cosign. Trina

40:58

broke out of that paradigm. Point

41:00

blank period.

41:01

And Miami's queen of getting freaky

41:03

on her own terms will serve as the

41:05

blueprint for the next generation.

41:07

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41:51

How do you feel now, 20

41:54

years on, that a lot

41:56

of the blueprints you've set, like

41:59

your style? is now more like the

42:01

center of gravity. Oh, is it now?

42:03

Yeah. I mean, at some point,

42:06

at some where, hmm,

42:09

even if the new generation has

42:12

not had the experience or

42:15

have went down the same path, it

42:17

was some form that

42:19

put them in formation to have that

42:21

same tenacity, that same

42:23

bite, that same energy, that same

42:26

girl dominance, that same pussy

42:28

power, that same let me talk my talk.

42:31

I came with it. It's

42:35

a family of them now. Do

42:37

you understand what I'm saying? All

42:40

you ladies pop your pussy like this. Check

42:42

your body, don't stop, don't miss. She ain't wrong.

42:45

From Kaya to Nicki to

42:48

Cardi, Megan, City

42:50

Girls, Baby Mother, Sukeana,

42:53

Glorilla, Ice Spice, and

42:55

more.

42:56

Trina has no insecurity about her

42:58

influence.

43:02

She

43:05

knows she set the tone.

43:11

But now the new generation is coming up with totally

43:14

new ways to talk about blowing checks

43:16

and having rich sex. And

43:18

they're not afraid to say when the D doesn't measure

43:21

up either. I

43:27

hear it.

43:34

All

43:39

the girls' music today. All the girls... That's how all the

43:42

new girls. I hear it. Everything they talk

43:44

about. I'm not the only one now. We got 50 girls

43:47

out, right?

43:48

Talking about the power

43:50

of the P. The power of this,

43:52

bad bitch, this, bad bitch. Everybody's the baddest bitch.

43:55

It's so like, did I create like a

43:57

legacy of this? because it just

43:59

is. constantly growing. And I

44:01

can't make this up because when you hear these girls

44:04

speak, they always bring it up at

44:06

some form. Bad bitch music,

44:08

pussy rap, whatever you want to call it. Serving

44:11

up sex in your bars with your pleasure

44:14

purely in the center has become more

44:16

popular than ever.

44:18

That's the agency of all of it. It's

44:20

uplifting, empowering, and highlights

44:23

loving yourself in ways you've historically been

44:25

told to suppress. This

44:27

bitch taught the city girls how to hit

44:30

a big lick. Baby Tate says

44:32

Trina taught her how to ride.

44:33

And Off-Glass shattered the barrier for

44:36

Cardi to get even more salacious.

44:39

And not only are the girls enjoying

44:41

their sexuality and making money off it,

44:44

phew, the guys are sick

44:46

about it. But it's true, mostly about

44:48

female artists. They're cosplaying

44:51

as rappers. They're nothing but IG

44:54

models That's literally

44:56

getting co-pelled. The lyrics is just

44:59

the same fucking lyric, every album.

45:01

Pussy good, wet, deep, pay for my

45:03

bag. Like, yo,

45:05

you gonna fuck your pay. Oh,

45:08

it's like strippers rapping.

45:11

And I don't, as far as

45:13

rap goes, I don't.

45:14

And that hagginess is making the girls go

45:16

even harder.

45:21

And we talked to one artist in this renaissance feels

45:23

like she's cut straight from Trina's club. Big

45:33

Lotto. When

45:36

she came into the studio in LA

45:38

to chop it up with us, she had on this Mariah

45:40

Carey brown check suit and Y2K

45:43

sunglasses. It was cute. Such

45:45

a vibe.

45:45

And after getting settled,

45:48

we got straight to it. I liked those

45:50

raw bitches like that. Some bitches

45:52

from the South, they was sexual in their

45:55

lyrics, but they had this aggressiveness

45:59

said.

46:00

same time and masculinity intertwined

46:03

with that like sexual liberation. So

46:05

I like those type of females. And

46:07

Lotta wanted to bring some of that strength to her own

46:09

music. Listening to her early cuts,

46:12

she comes through with that same bougie, bossed

46:15

up bravado. Then,

46:20

when her single, Bitch From The South came out, one

46:22

of her idols took notice.

46:24

Trina liked the track so much, she hopped

46:26

on it.

46:41

Oh my God. I still,

46:43

to this day, nobody understands. Because first of

46:45

all, I was independent when

46:48

Trina did that. I was independent. Like

46:51

she just seen the vision. believed in me

46:54

when nobody else did. So I

46:56

forever loved Trina for that stamp. That

47:01

approval at being an independent artist

47:03

and coming into the game as

47:06

a grown woman,

47:07

her approval meant the world to me,

47:09

especially at the time. But even to this day,

47:12

I love Trina the deaf. Nobody ever, ever

47:14

gonna speak on Trina Ill in my way.

47:16

In my presence, hell no, not gonna. I

47:19

know. I feel like- to

47:21

us in the South. That's what people don't understand. She's

47:23

a legend to us. Yeah, she's

47:25

a legend, period.

47:27

As a mentor, Trina encouraged Lotto

47:29

not to fear being raw with her bars, and

47:32

unapologetic about letting her music show

47:34

who she was. You can feel Trina's

47:36

influence on Lotto's official debut too, 777, when

47:40

she built on the baddest B's recipe for

47:42

success with her own bossed up

47:44

anthem. Let's talk about, first let's talk about

47:46

Is Given. Yes, Is

47:49

Given.

47:51

Never ever play me like I'm

47:54

average Never bring a

47:56

nigga over where I lay my head Lady

47:58

in the streets, put a free Why was this important?

48:06

People...

48:09

Tell me about the song. It's so important and people look... see

48:11

that's the shit I'm talking about where people be so

48:13

simple minded and just

48:16

short attention span because

48:18

if you just want to hear it's giving

48:21

or just read the damn title and be like,

48:23

ah, fucking

48:25

Instagram, bad bitch music, I

48:28

see the comments, my ass can't stay out them damn comments.

48:31

Whatever. But yeah, if you

48:33

get past it and you listen

48:36

to the record with an open mind instead

48:38

of going into it, they already... You

48:41

know how they do female rap anyways, but listen

48:43

to the record, watch the video. It's

48:45

so empowering. It's so empowering.

48:48

So I do my part. I don't

48:50

give a fuck. You don't got to give me

48:53

my credit, whatever. I know I

48:55

do my part. Yeah, but you're saying like, how

48:58

you're saying empowering? I bring the

49:00

table to the table, nigga, why would I need you?

49:02

Why would I need you? I say working

49:05

nine to five and she trying to finish school. I

49:08

bring the table to the table, nigga, why would I need

49:10

you? I'm really talking that shit. I'm

49:13

lifting women up, but people,

49:16

they stigma with

49:18

female rap. As soon as they hear pussy

49:20

or anything just putting down a

49:22

man, they just, they throw it all

49:25

in the same category. Mm-hmm.

49:26

Lotto didn't let being labeled a pussy rapper

49:29

stop her. She made an album that pushed

49:31

the line even harder. But when it

49:33

dropped, that wasn't what most people were talking

49:35

about. Lotto is in the neighborhood, ladies and gentlemen.

49:37

Welcome to the neighborhood, queen. How are you doing? I'm

49:39

doing good. I heard that. I'm

49:42

a little exhausted. Really?

49:43

They were talking about an interview Lotto

49:45

did to promo the album. Why do you stay still

49:47

to this day? You

49:49

know, you got let downs. You got, you

49:51

know, being a female rapper. I'm clearing

49:53

my album right now and it's been difficult

49:56

to

49:57

deal with these men. You know what I'm

49:59

saying? and know how to keep it business and

50:01

then they want it like... What do you mean by that? So,

50:04

I don't care. Baby,

50:07

I'm just going to keep it 100. It's a feature on my

50:09

album that

50:11

it was difficult to clear and they

50:13

trying to

50:14

drop their nuts on me because I won't respond

50:16

to a DM. Wow. Really?

50:19

Is it, and without saying a name, but is it artist

50:21

or producer or somebody? Artists. Oh, wow.

50:24

Artists, yeah. And they'll still be on the album?

50:26

Yeah, just because I love the

50:28

song so much and I had to turn it in

50:30

yesterday so I didn't really have a choice so I was like

50:32

back into a corner like bully. But I wish

50:34

more females would speak up on stuff. I know like the label

50:36

and stuff they say you know, don't do

50:39

that bad business whatever. Man these folks

50:41

be trying to drop nuts on female rappers.

50:43

I'm not gonna shut up about

50:44

that. And when Lotto says drop nuts, she

50:47

means it literally. A big name

50:49

collaborator who went unnamed in Lotto's

50:51

interview tried to charge her way

50:53

more than a monetary fee for his feature

50:55

verse. So that was what was on my mind

50:57

when I did that interview. They

50:59

asked me how was the process being and

51:02

that's what was on my mind that morning because I just

51:04

had to make an executive decision to leave

51:06

something that I did not want to be on there.

51:10

And just,

51:11

you know, like, yeah. Even

51:15

though she didn't say no names, Speculation

51:17

ran wild online.

51:19

And one rapper who was featured on Lotto's album

51:22

and his crew started taking

51:24

shots at her and things

51:26

just kind of spun out of control a little

51:29

bit.

51:30

Honestly, that's not even the half

51:32

of what I've dealt with in this industry. That

51:35

is some fuck shit, but it's not the

51:37

half of what I've dealt with in the industry. So

51:39

I was also just blindsided by

51:41

people's reaction to it because I'm like, oh,

51:44

y'all really don't know what the fuck be going on behind

51:46

closed doors with female rappers. It's really

51:48

not shocking to be honest. Right, tip of the iceberg.

51:51

Yeah, that's the tip of the iceberg. A lot

51:54

of the times people don't know what they're proposing

51:56

us to do in exchange for these features.

51:59

Thank Cats!

52:00

Bullying female rappers behind closed doors,

52:02

they be damn near bullying us. Half

52:05

the time, these niggas don't be interested in doing no

52:07

song with us if you don't come with no pussy.

52:10

But people online didn't see it that way. They

52:13

accused Lotto of lying, clout chasing,

52:16

and doing the most. That reaction

52:18

kind of soured the album release.

52:21

I think your honesty in that moment

52:23

and your... It was

52:25

so important because it did kind of,

52:28

even though it is, I believe it is

52:30

very much the tip of the iceberg. It opened up

52:32

a whole conversation of

52:35

what you deal with, what being

52:37

a woman in this industry as a black woman, period,

52:39

right? Like what we deal with. And

52:43

I think it opened up more

52:45

conversations about the

52:46

inherent misogyny that

52:49

still is allowed to operate in

52:51

this space. Oh my God.

52:52

I'm appreciative for the way

52:55

things are shifting for female rappers, but

52:57

people, they still don't know, y'all see all these thriving

52:59

female rappers, that's beautiful, but I know so

53:02

many of them have stories like mine, similar

53:04

to mine, maybe even worse than mine.

53:06

That's the thing about exercising your sexual agency

53:10

in an inherently sexist world. One

53:13

thing you can't control is how people

53:15

will or won't respect it. As

53:17

more artists enter the game and follow and treat his

53:19

footsteps, the girly sexual expression

53:22

is used against them

53:24

to justify men's aggression. And

53:27

on top of that, nobody calls

53:29

them out on it.

53:30

We need the men. We need them to

53:33

speak out and call these niggas out when they do some

53:35

lame shit. Yeah, that might be your partner. Y'all might

53:37

be from the same hood. Y'all might got a mixtape

53:39

together or a feature, whatever. But we need

53:41

them to speak up for us and call them

53:43

out on they shit because the

53:46

shit these These niggas we doing and getting away with

53:48

publicly and nobody speaks up,

53:50

that shit is, that's foul. You

53:52

know what I'm saying? So we all have to be on

53:55

one page and work together to rewrite

53:57

that. rewrite it yep yep

54:00

Yeah. One person who knows this

54:02

better than anyone is the Diamond Princess

54:04

herself. People, speaking of Lada really fast,

54:06

I was trying to bring her down with this latest record, getting

54:08

clearance for that. What are your thoughts when you heard

54:10

that and have you experienced any issues with male

54:13

rappers trying to do other things and

54:15

not keep a professional with you? Honestly,

54:18

I was really... I'm me personally,

54:21

I was really happy that she said that. Because

54:24

that happened to me a lot. Wow.

54:26

A lot. And I got six hours. So

54:29

it's happened to me before, me just being,

54:31

I'm an OG,

54:33

I'm always keep it gangsta, I'm always pushing

54:35

P to the fullest. Yes. So you

54:37

never name calling, you never name dropping.

54:39

But as a woman in this business,

54:42

there are some guys that will try

54:44

to hold you and suffocate

54:47

you and not let you go up, put that record

54:49

through because you didn't answer

54:51

a DM. You didn't answer somebody

54:53

gave you a number, you didn't write back on the text, you didn't respond

54:55

in the Twitter. I've been in that situation.

54:58

I had to push through. I've been hurt in that situation

55:00

with some of y'all like, that's why I'm not opposed to... Trina

55:02

also reached out privately to Lotto

55:05

to give her some advice. She told

55:07

her, Just be you. Don't let people

55:09

silence you and stand in your

55:11

truth and stand... Yeah, literally stand in

55:13

your truth. Just,

55:15

you know, don't let the people intimidate you from

55:17

your experiences. This is shit that you experienced.

55:20

No one can invalidate that.

55:23

That advice that Trina gave Lotto, it

55:26

ain't just for Lotto. It's for every

55:28

person Trina's outspoken rawness inspired.

55:31

It's for the whole movement of bad

55:33

bees who find power through talking that

55:35

talk. Me and Cain

55:37

invalidate them. And me and definitely

55:40

Cain invalidate that power. Because

55:42

of Trina, how women can show up on

55:45

mic has completely changed. But

55:47

Lado's backlash proves progress and

55:50

perfection. If anything,

55:52

it shows why the world needs bad bitches more

55:55

than ever. I feel like the baddest bitch

55:57

is just like a strong, confident woman.

55:59

is not about. It's about looks, it's about strength, it's

56:01

about intuition, it's about determination, focus.

56:05

Some of these situations we be in as black women, we're not protected.

56:07

We out here by ourselves fighting a race

56:09

of just trying to have people respect

56:12

us. You have to be firm and strong. There's something that's bothering

56:14

you, something that's not making you in this industry. Speak up about

56:16

it. It doesn't matter who feel like they can cancel you,

56:18

talk trash about you. None of that matters.

56:21

Unless you are not living and breathing, none of that

56:24

matters. Nobody can stop what's inside

56:26

of you. Nobody can stop your determination. Nobody can stop your

56:28

drive. Nobody can stop your hustle.

56:30

Nobody can stop you from walking through that door

56:32

if you don't want to be stopped. Only thing can stop you is you.

56:40

But what happens when you do speak up and

56:43

call out king makers in hip-hop journalism?

56:46

And she said, girl, they will tear you down

56:48

by the pussy hairs in this business. The

56:52

source magazine's former editor in chief, Kim

56:55

O'Sario, takes us through rule

56:57

number five. That's next time

56:59

on Louder Than a Riot. Louder

57:10

Than a Riot is hosted by me, Sydney

57:12

Madden and Rodney Carmichael.

57:15

This episode was written by myself, Rodney

57:18

and Gabby Bulgarelli. And it was produced

57:20

by our senior producer, Gabby Bulgarelli.

57:23

Our producers are Sam J Leeds and

57:25

Mano Sunderesin. Our editor

57:27

is Saraya Shockley. Our engineer

57:30

is Gilly Moon. Senior supervising

57:32

producer is Cher Benson. Our interns

57:35

are Jose Sandoval, Theresa

57:37

Sheehan, and Pilar Galvan.

57:40

And the NPR execs are Keith Jenkins,

57:43

Yolanda Sanguini, and Anya Gremen.

57:46

Original theme by Casa Overall, remix

57:48

by Susie Analogue. And the scoring for

57:50

this episode was provided by Susie

57:52

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57:54

Our digital editor is Jacob Gans.

57:57

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58:00

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58:13

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