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Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates.

0:12

A warning before we begin. This podcast

0:15

is explicit in every way, and

0:17

this episode mentions suicidal

0:19

thoughts. I

0:20

was over at a friend's house and

0:23

she was always having kind of like house

0:25

parties. And at one of her house parties, she had music video after

0:27

music video of Rico Nasty just playing. I

0:32

know for a fact that one of the music videos was Snackabitch. Definitely.

0:38

Yeah. The

0:49

music video opens with Rico alone in a

0:52

low lit hallway.

0:53

Chunky

0:58

black boots, smeared eyeliner,

1:00

and Rico's expression, that

1:03

smirk of defiance over screaming guitar

1:05

chords.

1:12

It makes it hard to look away. And

1:15

I just sat there in awe. And

1:18

when was this? Like, how old were you? Like 16

1:20

or 17. Rodney, we've all

1:22

had those moments in adolescence, right? Where

1:25

you hear a song and it just sticks with you forever.

1:28

It speaks to you.

1:29

Are you talking about that song that like shapes your

1:31

soul for the rest of your life? Exactly.

1:34

You know the one. Like for me,

1:36

I can definitely recite all

1:38

the lyrics to Nicki Minaj's Itty Bitty Piggy or

1:40

even her Monsterverse with the same type of,

1:43

as if I'm right around campus with my girls.

1:46

Oh, wait, see, I'm thinking Benita

1:48

Applebaum, Tribe Called Quest or

1:51

something like that. Oh, OK. I like

1:53

it. Well, for Talie Lajaro,

1:56

a recent college grad living in Portland, that

1:58

song was Rico Nasty's Smackdown. I'd

2:00

never heard music like

2:03

this from someone who looked

2:05

like me, so I was very enthralled in

2:07

her music with the very first time I saw it. The magic

2:10

of Smackabitch is pretty undeniable.

2:13

That simultaneous restraint and

2:15

warning shot in her lyrics is

2:18

low-key Rico's calling card,

2:20

just as much rap as it is punk. I

2:22

felt empowerment. Her voice just

2:24

in general, screaming the song,

2:27

it just awoken something in me to just feel

2:30

comfortable. And it's okay to be angry.

2:33

She kind of made me feel more comfortable in myself.

2:49

The message and sound of Rico's music

2:51

resonates so deep, and it's so

2:53

important for black girls to hear, because in

2:55

a world that paints you showing any emotion as

2:58

you being too much,

2:59

too loud, too difficult, too

3:01

ratchet, Rico's telling us to

3:04

lean into those things, channel

3:06

that anger instead of muting it. And

3:09

Solile wanted to be a part of it in real life.

3:11

When I saw that Rico Nasty is

3:13

going on tour, I was so excited.

3:16

This is the first time I'm

3:18

ever going to be able to see her. I was

3:20

just so pumped. I was like, I have to buy these tickets. I'm

3:22

going. In 2021, Rico went

3:24

on tour with Playboy Cardi.

3:26

It was a huge look. It was supposed to

3:28

be a triumphant moment for her career and her

3:30

fans, their

3:32

biggest chance to all rage together.

3:34

But that moment was taken from them.

3:37

So get it on your chest.

3:52

I'm Cindy Madden. I'm

3:54

Rodney Carmichael. And from NPR

3:56

Music, this is Louder

3:58

Than a Ride.

3:59

where we confront the double standard, that's

4:02

become the standard. On

4:04

every episode this season, we tackle

4:07

one unwritten rule of hip-hop that affects

4:09

the most marginalized among us and

4:11

holds the entire culture back. And

4:13

one that a new generation of rap refuses

4:16

to stand for. When the outlet

4:18

for your anger gets shut down, how

4:20

do you get it back? We go nasty,

4:22

keys are real about the tour that went left. I

4:24

don't care if you know how to fight or if you're the

4:27

toughest bitch in the world, it's about standing

4:29

up for yourself. It's about remaining

4:31

powerful throughout the draining.

4:34

On this episode, rule number eight,

4:37

what doesn't kill you makes you a strong

4:39

black woman.

4:45

Hey y'all, before we get started, we need

4:47

to acknowledge something. Since

4:49

we reported out this story, Playboy Carti

4:51

was arrested on assault charges related to

4:53

domestic violence. The case has

4:55

been dismissed, but because this all happened

4:58

after we wrapped our reporting, you aren't

5:00

gonna hear us talking about it in this episode. All

5:02

right, let's get into it. First,

5:06

let's start with where we're at right now. Right now

5:08

we are at one of my favorite studios and

5:11

I am here with you. This

5:13

is really like in the cut studio. It's at the bottom

5:16

of a hotel and stuff. I used

5:18

to stand up. Sid, I know you spent a lot of time where we go

5:20

nasty over the last year talking about

5:23

everything that went down on this Playboy Carti

5:25

tour.

5:25

Yeah, I did. We linked up

5:27

a couple times to talk about it. In

5:29

LA, we met at this moody underground

5:32

studio in West Hollywood. They had

5:34

candles burning everywhere and black

5:37

and purple decor.

5:38

Mm, very Rico. I

5:41

think I did my longest session in here. It was like 18

5:43

hours or something. Jeez, I

5:45

like long sessions. Okay. And

5:47

every time we talked, she stayed

5:50

hyping up her fans. She calls them

5:52

Nasty Mob.

5:53

They get to come to the show and they

5:56

get in a mosh pit and these

5:58

little girls that... Normally our

6:00

hella timid and shy, they get in the mosh

6:02

pit and niggas are like, oh shit,

6:05

this bitch is crazy. It's a

6:07

power. We are going to infiltrate

6:10

the male pit and we will

6:12

make these niggas die. They

6:15

are crazy. Hella powerful, hella

6:18

powerful. They're not scared. They've told

6:20

themselves Nasty Mob because they mob

6:22

out. For Rico and for each

6:24

other, online and in real life.

6:27

You can see it in the pits. Her fans

6:30

go hard and they aren't just there for themselves.

6:33

They want everyone around them to have a good time. I've

6:35

seen so many mosh pits where it's like a big ass six

6:37

foot nigga just passed out and the girls are like, please,

6:40

gently, don't drop him. Security.

6:43

They're so sweet to one another.

6:46

That energy of Rico shows, they

6:48

make some stand out. Oh

6:50

my sis, you are my queen. I love you,

6:52

I love you. We waiting

6:54

in this hot 99 in recent times, but

6:56

we gonna see. This

6:58

seems real, or something you really

7:00

do like me. I do, I really do. Let's

7:03

go! So

7:06

when Playboi Carti's team was looking to make the show line

7:08

up for his tour, Rico was a natural

7:10

choice. He's like, she rock her shows.

7:12

Don't no bitch rock a show like me.

7:14

And I would die beside that. Nobody

7:17

rock shows like me. And he saw that,

7:19

like he respected me. And it was respecting.

7:21

Rico was excited to get this look from Carti. She'd

7:24

always wanted a cross country tour. Plus,

7:27

it was a bag. So of course she

7:29

said yes. She started off the tour

7:32

vlogging the whole experience. It's no bitches,

7:34

it's gonna be niggas. Can't play Poppins. In

7:37

her first vlog, she's on stage in Nashville

7:40

doing a sound check.

7:48

Rico was feeling it. She was

7:50

having fun. Joking

7:52

around on her very first tour bus and getting

7:55

to meet a ton of fans across the country.

7:58

It's a dream to meet you.

9:45

So,

10:01

straight like that, if she not shaking ass,

10:03

we do not want to see this shit. But

10:05

that's what you go to the strip club for. Not a rap

10:07

show. So, have some cooth.

10:11

Rico

10:13

felt like she has a response, so after

10:15

the show, she started tweeting. We

10:18

got one of our friends to read out her tweets. Y'all

10:21

mothers should've swallowed you little pissy frogs.

10:24

Yeah, I said it. Not deleting shit.

10:26

Try me again. I have fly out the stage

10:29

and possess you. Anti-black

10:31

ass crowd, weak ass little boys

10:33

with blonde pubes. Ugh,

10:36

get me outta here.

10:40

I think what happened was, I disrespected

10:42

his fans. Plain and simple. All

10:46

right, hold up. We spent a lot of time

10:48

talking about Rico fans, but we need to talk about Cardi

10:50

fans. And as a hip

10:52

hop journalist, I know his music, but

10:55

his fandom, it's kinda foreign

10:57

to me. I'm not the one to tell you

10:59

about it. But luckily, we have someone on our team who

11:01

can.

11:02

What's up, Mano? What's up, Syd? Tell the

11:04

people who you are. So, I'm Mano Sonnaressin.

11:07

I'm a producer on Louder Than a Riot, and

11:09

I run a music blog called No Bells.

11:12

We basically cover a bunch of the

11:15

internet slash zoomer rap, artists

11:17

like Yeet, Ken Carson, and

11:19

of course, Playboy Cardi, the one who kinda started

11:21

it all.

11:22

Okay, so as our resident

11:24

expert on all this, if you can,

11:27

give me it in two sentences,

11:29

how would you describe a Playboy Cardi fan?

11:31

Two sentences, wow. Yeah,

11:36

I feel like, okay, there's a lot to unpack here, because

11:38

I think it starts with a

11:40

fan base in Atlanta.

11:42

His fan base back then was just

11:44

Atlanta rap fans, kind of

11:46

an alt scene. But it really morphed

11:49

into something a lot more unwieldy, especially

11:51

as you sort of reached more of this hype B status.

11:54

Now the image that just pops in my head is toxic

11:56

white, dude, honestly, but that's another

11:59

story. But tell me that story

12:01

though. Cardi fans are just, they're just different

12:03

honestly. And we're not

12:05

talking about all Cardi fans, right? But like, there

12:08

was definitely this contingent of them that really

12:10

deified him. They really go

12:13

crazy online. And, you

12:15

know, sometimes even trolling people on the internet.

12:17

Yeah, but it seems

12:20

like Cardi's fanbase, compared

12:22

to other rabid fanbases, their

12:25

actions take on this very purposefully

12:28

destructive quality. You

12:31

know what I mean?

12:32

Yeah, totally. Sometimes even

12:34

destructive to Cardi's own career. Cardi

12:37

fans, and I'm talking about a contingent of them,

12:39

not all of them, they have

12:41

leaked Cardi's music many,

12:43

many times. There's a

12:45

whole album's worth of material that we'll probably never

12:48

see the light of day for this reason. And

12:52

sometimes they can get really destructive

12:54

with other people online as well.

12:55

Yeah, and in real life. For sure.

12:58

Yeah.

12:58

I sometimes feel like what Cardi

13:01

represents is counterculture, but

13:03

when his fanbase is

13:06

so sort of mainstream and so center,

13:08

it feels a lot more like Rebellion for Rebellion's

13:11

sake.

13:11

Okay, okay.

13:15

Well, thanks, Mano. Thanks, Ed.

13:19

So that difference that Mano just laid out is

13:22

what Rico was confronted with on tour. With

13:25

those tweets,

13:26

Rico agitated his fans,

13:28

and some of them started trolling her online

13:30

hard.

13:32

Cardi let her know how they could be.

13:34

He's like, bro, they're crazy, bro. I'm telling

13:36

you, don't argue with them. Cardi, he's like, literally,

13:38

don't argue with them. They're fucking nuts.

13:40

They invade

13:42

my privacy all the time. Just

13:44

don't even pay attention to that shit.

13:46

Rico tried to say Cardi's advice and ignore

13:48

them,

13:49

which made Cardi's fans go even harder.

13:53

Three nights later, at the next show in San Diego,

13:55

they booed her again.

13:58

I'm not gonna hear nothing the other way, I'm gonna fuck you. Her

14:04

DJ kept dropping bombs and her artist

14:06

tag to offset the Cardi chance. After

14:11

Rico left the stage, the

14:13

lights went dark and Cardi came

14:15

out.

14:33

Bouncing

14:38

around almost like a little puppet

14:40

vampire.

14:45

He didn't say a word and the

14:47

show went on like nothing happened.

14:54

A couple of TikToks of Rico getting booed that night

14:56

went viral. One video

14:58

got millions of views and tens of

15:00

thousands of comments. Some

15:03

media outlets aggregated those social posts,

15:05

but the coverage didn't go much deeper than that.

15:09

This tour was not going how Rico had dreamed.

15:21

It was very horrible to see. It really

15:23

broke my heart because I really

15:26

do love Rico and to see somebody you love

15:29

get mistreated like that, it was just the disrespect

15:32

was just on another level. After seeing

15:34

those videos,

15:35

Flo Milly knew she would need some

15:37

support. I just felt the need

15:40

to reach out to her because I

15:42

didn't like what I was seeing on the internet and

15:44

we had a long talk about it. This is crazy.

15:47

How is this even being allowed to happen

15:50

right now?

15:51

I let her know that, girl, fuck with these

15:53

people. Then you have people out here who actually

15:55

love you, who you're actually touching every

15:58

single day.

15:59

in mind that her community had her

16:01

back. But it was getting hard, because

16:04

even though she knew she had fans out there in the crowd each

16:06

night,

16:07

they were getting drowned out by Carties, and

16:09

that made the hate feel even louder.

16:12

Two nights later, the

16:14

tour bus rolled into Portland.

16:17

My little sister, the day of the concert was

16:19

her birthday, so I was like, yo,

16:22

I have an idea for your birthday. To

16:25

Lile,

16:25

that fan from the beginning of the episode

16:28

was excited to celebrate their sister's birthday

16:30

by going to see one of their favorite artists.

16:33

At the same time, though, they were nervous.

16:35

I'd seen on social media,

16:38

especially on TikTok, that there were videos of

16:42

Playboy Cardi fans is what it looked like,

16:46

kind of like booing her off stage, just

16:48

having this animosity for her for

16:50

no reason. And I kind of thought, I

16:53

hope that this is not how Portland is going to show up

16:56

and show out for Rico. But

16:59

to

16:59

Lile knew how Portland could be. This

17:02

city, people call it a liberal safe-haven

17:04

type of vibe, but it is definitely

17:06

for white individuals

17:09

to have this, I

17:11

don't know, white savior aspect,

17:14

white women wearing shirts protect black women in

17:16

Portland.

17:17

And then they'll come to my job and they'll yell at

17:19

me. They have the face of it. Like,

17:22

I'm a whoa, I'm liberal. When it

17:24

comes down to actually seeing a black

17:26

person in person, they are

17:28

shocked, afraid. Like, you can tell

17:30

just by looking at their face, like, they

17:32

are uncomfortable with you being there.

17:35

Regardless, then we're going to let all that

17:37

noise get in the way of their good time. The

17:39

night of the show, she got ready with

17:41

friends. Before we went to

17:44

the show, we got our outfits

17:46

together. We tried to go for something

17:48

punk. We tried to go for something

17:50

that Rico would like. We were listening to her

17:53

songs and we were dancing in the mirror and,

17:55

you know, we were so excited. When

17:58

they all got to the venue, though, things

17:59

felt off. There were like large

18:02

crowds of white boys

18:04

probably between the ages of like 14 to

18:08

freshman in college and they were all

18:10

just kind of like had this

18:13

like height mentality. There were so

18:15

few of us Black women there.

18:17

There were some and we did make friends

18:19

with a few people too but the

18:21

vibe was uncomfortable. The lights went

18:23

down and Rico's set was about

18:26

to start. When the music started and

18:28

that tension

18:29

got thicker and thicker I was like

18:32

this is this is insane. I got on stage

18:34

and I was just performing. I was performing

18:36

like regular rugs just a regular show. People

18:39

were singing it was some armpits. It

18:41

was fun. It was lit. I was bouncing around. I was jumping

18:43

up and down and I had seen like in this

18:46

corner it was just niggas

18:48

and they wasn't dancing and they wasn't doing nothing.

18:50

They were just looking at me and they made me like a

18:53

foot away from the stage. Like it's three

18:55

rows of people in front of them. Cool

18:58

and they was white.

18:59

The people that I'm talking about keep saying niggas but they was

19:01

white. I know. I

19:05

was up out of my seat. My sister was

19:07

up out of her seat. All these Black women

19:10

and then

19:11

rows and rows behind us people are just

19:13

sitting. All the rows in front of us

19:15

people are just sitting. You can tell it's

19:17

like they're bored. They're kind of like just

19:20

get over this kind of energy. As

19:22

Talilah watched from her section that

19:24

crowd went from being bored

19:26

to straight up disrespectful. Talilah

19:29

pulled out their phone and started recording.

19:32

They were chanting Cardi. They were saying

19:34

get off the stage trying to

19:36

cut her step short and then just

19:38

move on and they had to doing

19:41

it like you know what the fuck is going on. You

19:43

could hear like this rumble. The people

19:45

who are fans of hers are waiting for the next

19:48

lyric next week. We're all kind of like what's

19:50

going on. You could tell something

19:52

happened. Someone threw something

19:55

at her. We had no idea what it was from

19:57

our angle. And then a bottle

19:58

like hit me in my arm. and

20:02

I looked up. She

20:04

was looking at the crowd and she started pointing.

20:07

I'm gonna get this nigga. Go,

20:14

go, bitch.

20:15

We got to go. Oh, bitch.

20:20

This is gonna sound so, like, wild

20:22

of me, and it was wild of me to think like this,

20:25

but I just had thought it came

20:28

from right where I had seen them. So

20:31

I just said, who the fuck did that, and

20:33

they start pointing. And

20:35

as they pointing, the nigga's just running. You

20:38

can tell she's about to fight this person.

20:40

So I jumped off the stage. She

20:44

just played, like, four songs about fighting

20:46

somebody, and I don't know why you would throw

20:48

something at her. And

20:50

I grabbed the person that I seen,

20:53

and

20:55

I... I

20:59

hit them, and

21:01

then they were a fan. You're

21:03

a fan? Yeah. And

21:06

that's what I knew, that I can't really do

21:09

anything. You

21:12

could see her as a whole security team, like, surrounding

21:14

her, like, trying to get her. It

21:16

was like, you know, men in black uniforms just

21:19

trying to salvage the situation.

21:22

Security grabbed me. He

21:24

folded my ass like a chair. You can see it in the

21:26

video. He folded me. He got my ass quick as

21:28

hell, and then I just, like, walked

21:31

off, and I was like, what the fuck did I just

21:33

do? Like, what the fuck? Like,

21:36

why did I do that? Why the fuck did

21:38

I just do that? Why the fuck did I just say something

21:40

funny or, like, make light of

21:41

it? It wasn't even a big bottle. Like,

21:44

why did I do that? Why did I stop the show?

21:47

I just was so mad at myself. My

21:49

heart, like, broke for her. I was sad.

21:51

I was hurt. I was upset. I was

21:53

mad at why would someone do that? Everybody

21:56

was trying to figure out what happened, and

21:58

then...

21:59

The internet was like blowing that shit

22:02

crazy. And then everybody was calling

22:04

me like, what the fuck is going on? And

22:06

I'm like, oh, nothing.

22:10

Just a crazy show. It

22:13

was one of the hardest shows I think I've had

22:16

to go to because of

22:18

that energy in the room. It was one of the most

22:20

hostile shows I think I've ever been to.

22:23

It's not an energy I wanna be in

22:25

ever again or space I wanna be

22:28

in ever again. The other girls with

22:30

me are a genuine fan of hers. We wanna

22:32

see her succeed and we wanna see her have

22:34

a successful concert, but all these people are

22:36

out here ruining it for us. She's

22:38

worked hard, she's earned her place, and

22:41

she deserves a seat at the table.

22:43

This doesn't make any sense. We

22:46

were just kind of like so, so,

22:48

so drained. Talilah

22:51

posted a TikTok of what happened that night. Once

22:53

they got home, all they wanted to do was

22:55

put their phone to charge and go to bed. By

23:02

the time she woke up, her TikTok

23:04

was part of a much larger conversation, one

23:07

that was gonna clock what went down that night as

23:09

more than just fleeting controversy.

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slash 360.

23:48

Rico jumping off that stage in Portland ignited

23:50

a storm online.

23:52

It spread from TikTok to Instagram

23:54

to Twitter. Never disrespect

23:57

the crowd. She has a lot to learn. I feel

23:59

so bad.

23:59

Rico sucks though, not bad. We all spent

24:02

a year inside and forgot how to act in public.

24:04

But when her sick and racist and misogynistic...

24:07

Bruh, they're making Carlillo fuck off.

24:09

She's a fucking queen. I love

24:11

to hate a black woman, for real.

24:14

There was one person watching this go down that

24:17

knew it went a lot deeper than this internet

24:19

chatter. I start to see these

24:22

videos that literally are like, you

24:24

know, maybe like six or seven or eight hours

24:26

old. This is Musani Musa, internet

24:29

commentator, and the creator of Culture

24:31

Unfiltered,

24:32

a hub for pop culture and music discussions,

24:35

especially hip-hop. I saw like

24:38

all of these bad things

24:41

happening to Rico Nasty and it was video

24:43

after video after video. It was kind

24:45

of shocking. The crowd was just disrespectful,

24:48

inconsiderate, immature,

24:50

and just lacking in coof. Seeing

24:53

all this, Musani was angry

24:55

for Rico. Rico Nasty is

24:57

an artist who has worked her behind off to be

25:00

in this space performing, you know, her

25:02

art. And it came off as anti-black

25:05

woman because it's like

25:07

they're not even giving her a chance to

25:09

perform it. And I just thought that was extremely wrong.

25:12

I just knew like, you know, deep down

25:14

in my soul as a black woman, like she did not deserve

25:16

that treatment. And I

25:19

think in situations like that, it's important

25:21

to speak up and speak out about it. So

25:23

she did. So over the weekend,

25:25

Rico Nasty called Playboi Cardi fans anti-black

25:28

because they were disrespecting her as she was opening

25:30

for him. I think this situation makes it obvious

25:33

that yes, alternative hip-hop

25:35

realm of music can be very anti-black

25:37

and

25:37

isn't welcoming to black women. Let

25:39

me know what y'all think about this. Musani's reaction

25:42

video circulated all over. TikTok,

25:45

YouTube, and Twitter. A lot

25:47

of the responses that I got were like,

25:49

Playboi Cardi fans, I called them the Playboi Cardi

25:51

Hive. A lot of those comments. I

25:53

didn't even give energy to because

25:56

that same audience that was disrespecting

25:58

her, you know, was the same.

25:59

audience that was showing up in my comments section.

26:02

And I feel like for some people, unless

26:05

you put yourself in a

26:07

black woman's shoes, you will

26:09

never understand, you know,

26:11

where we're coming from. And I think

26:13

that audience is dedicated to

26:16

misunderstanding black women as a whole. I

26:19

stood 10 toes down on what I said. Trolls

26:21

weren't the only ones in our comments, though. Some

26:24

people were curious about how a

26:26

white Playboi Carti fan coming

26:29

to a Playboi Carti concert

26:29

in Buen Rico Nasty would

26:32

be deemed anti-blackness if Playboi

26:34

Carti is black himself. That

26:37

opened the conversation for how

26:39

you can fetishize a single

26:41

black person and still be

26:44

considered anti-black and

26:46

especially anti-black woman. That's the

26:48

main reason her video went so viral, because

26:51

Massani was one of the first people with

26:53

a platform to call out Rico's experiences,

26:56

what Carti's fandom was doing to her

26:58

as misogynistic. How are these instances

27:01

of casual sexism?

27:03

How does it relate to the inherent misogyny

27:06

of hip-hop? I think that has

27:08

been a thing since the beginning of

27:11

hip-hop, unfortunately. And

27:14

hip-hop being an art form,

27:16

being a culture that everybody has contributed

27:18

to, in a perfect world,

27:21

black women would get celebrated for their contributions

27:23

just as much as black men, but

27:26

they don't.

27:27

Instead of celebration,

27:29

it's a fight for the most basic forms of respect.

27:32

As a woman in the game, Rico knows

27:34

this too. This pattern pops

27:36

up all the time, like with JT

27:39

from City Girls, who was clown when she got

27:41

arrested for scamming, just as City Girls

27:43

was on the rise. And people thinking that shit

27:45

is funny. Yeah, yeah.

27:47

And like... There's nothing funny about that. Same

27:50

thing with Megan. There's

27:52

nothing funny about that. I

27:54

mean, what does that say about... It

27:57

say that they don't care. That's

27:59

why we have to care. We care about ourselves. That's

28:01

why they so mad that we pop our pussies

28:04

and we pop our shit because

28:06

who else will?

28:07

Y'all not going to pop our shit. Y'all

28:10

not going to tell us that we the baddest bitch.

28:13

Y'all just going to keep breaking us down. Who is going to tell

28:15

us we're the baddest bitch? We have to tell

28:17

ourselves.

28:18

We have to. And that's why you

28:20

get the music that you get. This confident,

28:23

cocky ass shit that the niggas can't

28:25

stand. They hate it. Hate

28:27

it. It's not for you. It's

28:30

not for you, bro.

28:33

Rico's music and attitude specifically

28:35

not being for the bros,

28:37

it's what built Nasty Mob up. But

28:39

it's also what created this clash

28:42

on tour.

28:43

Every time Rico got back up on that stage

28:45

and was defiant, it became like a challenge

28:48

for this segment of Cardi fans to shut

28:50

her down.

28:52

The tour rolled through Seattle,

28:54

Vancouver, Salt Lake City. And

28:56

each time Rico went up,

28:58

she felt this pressure building. Even

29:00

though she was downplaying it, she started

29:03

to feel unsure of herself. She

29:05

didn't know how the crowd was going to react to her. I

29:07

was already trying to make

29:10

light of what had just happened. So

29:13

I'm trading lightly as it is. In

29:16

mid-November, the tour stopped in Morrison,

29:18

Colorado. This is at fucking Red

29:20

Rocks. It's just one of the best venues

29:23

ever.

29:24

Yeah, Red Rocks is pretty iconic.

29:27

It looks almost like the stage was dropped

29:29

right in the middle of the Grand Canyon.

29:31

And for some artists, it's like a bucket

29:33

list type of show. But it was far

29:35

from that for Rico. If anything,

29:38

this show made things worse. They

29:40

fucked my sound.

29:45

The speakers blew out and the crowd started booing

29:47

again. And then... This

29:49

one was more fun. It was a glass

29:51

bottle this time. I

29:53

had on my moon boots. So it just

29:55

hit the front of my boot. I

29:58

just was on the mic. mad for

30:00

it. And I

30:03

remember turning around and my

30:05

manager grabbed me. I'm

30:07

like, let me go. Like, I

30:10

don't give a fuck. And then

30:12

my other tour manager is like, give me the mic.

30:14

So I took the mic and

30:17

I smiled at the nigga that didn't sound like, fuck

30:19

you, basically like you're a bitch ass nigga.

30:22

And I took the mic and I threw it as far

30:24

in the air as I could. And I remember when it came

30:27

down, it made the craziest

30:29

sound.

30:33

On the cement? On the cement. It

30:36

completely like shattered. And they

30:38

had to like get a new mic and

30:40

do all this shit. And I didn't give

30:42

a fuck because I don't care. Like,

30:45

what? Y'all want to break shit? I don't break

30:47

shit too. We could break

30:49

shit all night. Rico's

30:51

set ended. But later that night,

30:54

John Playboy Cardi set, Cardi

30:56

brought Rico back out.

30:57

He

31:01

picked her up and hugged her. And then

31:03

as he performed his song Sky, Rico

31:06

stayed on stage and hopped around in the smoke

31:08

with him.

31:16

Now there's a weird sense of irony in

31:18

this moment, because from the video,

31:21

the crowd actually looks hyped to see Rico.

31:23

This is the same crowd that was just

31:25

booing her a few minutes earlier. Remember

31:28

how our producer, Mono, described

31:30

Cardi fans as being rebellious

31:32

for rebellion's sake? This little

31:34

recording sums that up completely

31:36

to me. The crowd is so worked up by

31:38

Cardi, they don't really care about anything else.

31:41

Especially not that Rico is the person they were

31:43

just heckling.

31:45

In this moment, it becomes so

31:47

clear

31:48

that to them,

31:49

rebelling against the opener,

31:51

messing with Rico,

31:53

it's just something to do.

31:55

Behind the ego and audacity of

31:57

monopolizing a space meant to

31:59

be shared. They're really just oblivious.

32:02

What a privilege to be so absent-minded

32:05

in the damage you caused. And

32:08

as for Cardi, I'm not gonna lie, the

32:10

hug was nice. But after weeks of

32:12

harassment by Cardi's fans, it did

32:14

not make things any safer for Rico.

32:17

Or fans like Talilay who felt uneasy

32:19

in the crowd.

32:20

In fact, it downplays what just happened

32:23

and it sidesteps the impact. You

32:28

could definitely tell. It was because of racism,

32:30

it was because of misogyny. Misogynoir,

32:32

obviously, that's exactly what was going on.

32:35

And now when I enter a concert space,

32:37

I'm trying to imagine

32:40

the kind of group that'll go there. And if I'm even

32:42

comfortable being there at all,

32:44

regardless of if I'm a fan of their music,

32:46

because it's like, I think

32:49

not understanding that

32:51

two artists have different fan bases,

32:54

but it's a clash, definitely. And

32:56

the fact that he couldn't even stand up

32:58

for her by hugging her on stage,

33:00

that's one thing we understand.

33:03

But it's like, you need to say some words too. These

33:05

people were saying some words to her. As

33:08

of this recording, we reached out to Cardi's

33:10

camp multiple times for comment on this

33:12

story

33:13

and have yet to get a response. A

33:16

week after Red Rocks, Rico shared

33:19

that it was becoming too much. We

33:21

had someone read her tweets again. My

33:24

dead ass need at least two hours out

33:26

of each day to just cry. Crazy

33:29

how I wanted to tour bus my whole life and

33:31

now I just be on the tour bus, crying

33:34

myself to sleep every night.

33:36

Y'all win. I wish I was dead

33:38

just as much as y'all do. Trust me. Rico

33:42

later deleted the series of tweets,

33:45

but Red Rocks was only the halfway point of the tour.

33:48

It was more than 20 stops to go. The

33:50

end felt really far away

33:52

and Rico's team was worried for her.

33:54

After the glass bottle, they were like, girl, get

33:57

the fuck off this tour. You gotta get off this

33:59

tour.

35:45

Somebody

36:00

just

36:01

hurt me. Yes, it's terrifying. But 10

36:04

years from now, when that shit happens to another

36:07

girl,

36:08

she won't feel alone.

36:10

And she won't feel like she need to give up either.

36:12

I don't care about being safe. I

36:15

care about people understanding

36:17

that you can do what the fuck

36:19

you want, whether or not they like you. You

36:22

gotta be strong in life,

36:25

not even just in music. You gotta

36:27

be strong in life. You have to. You

36:30

have to.

36:33

Being strong in life can get you through a lot.

36:35

But sometimes, strength gets used

36:38

against you, weaponized

36:40

to justify hurting you even deeper.

36:43

Because you can take it, right? Her

36:46

staying on the tour and dealing with that

36:48

treatment was an example

36:50

of the strong Black women trope. That's

36:52

Masani Musa again. People

36:55

buy into the fact that Black

36:57

women possess less emotions

37:00

than everybody else, that they

37:02

can handle the

37:03

harassment. They can handle

37:05

the name calling without

37:08

really thinking about how it would affect the

37:11

actual person. I think

37:13

it points to the

37:15

dehumanization of Black women. A

37:18

Black woman's existence, if she is

37:20

in the mix of any type of drama or anything else,

37:23

is like comedy. It's like entertainment.

37:26

Entertainment and rationale

37:29

to disregard Black women's pain

37:31

and ultimately flatten us into

37:33

characters. A savior

37:36

like Stacey Abrams or a martyr

37:38

like Toe and Salau. A scapegoat

37:41

like Janet Jackson or a spectacle

37:44

like Megan Thee Stallion. The

37:46

strong Black women label is packaged and sold as a

37:48

compliment. And it's been internalized

37:50

by many Black women as such for a long time.

37:53

But really, it's

37:54

an insult for even being asked to withstand

37:57

all this in the first place and to

37:59

do it alone. It stems from

38:01

survival, and I think

38:03

that can be attributed

38:06

back to how we

38:09

had to survive emotionally,

38:11

physically, and mentally during

38:13

slavery. You know,

38:16

we weren't seen as

38:18

women, we were seen as Black women, thus

38:20

being able to take the abuse, you

38:23

know, take the harassment,

38:26

and all the other unsavory things that

38:28

women in slavery had to deal with, and

38:31

just keep it truckin'.

38:34

Along with being too loud

38:36

and too angry, it's one of the

38:38

most pervasive stereotypes in America about

38:41

Black women. I think a lot of

38:43

Black women may have to deal with that in private,

38:45

but Rico Nasty was dealing with it

38:47

in public, with, you know, the whole

38:49

world watching. I don't blame

38:51

her for sticking it out. Also, at the same time,

38:54

I don't think Black women should be conditioned to

38:56

feel like we have to stick things out.

39:01

When I talked to Rico about all of this, it was clear

39:03

that she was holding onto strength as her coping

39:05

mechanism to stick things out

39:08

and to survive to her. But

39:10

I wanted to go deeper than that. I

39:12

want to go back to something you just said about

39:14

not quitting and not dropping off the

39:17

bill despite all this shit happening to you.

39:20

I think that's something

39:21

very within your character, very

39:24

within a lot of Black people,

39:26

a lot of Black women. But my

39:28

line of question is more about why

39:30

does it have to be that way? Why do

39:33

I have to be the guinea pig? Why

39:35

do Black women have to be the strongest,

39:37

most resilient, put up with anything,

39:40

sacrificial? Type of people. Oh my gosh.

39:42

You know what I'm saying? Why we gotta be so tough? Why

39:44

does it have to happen in the first place?

39:47

Because we

39:49

get the short end of the stick. We

39:52

just do. And

39:55

you're either gonna be victim or you're

39:58

just gonna be a fucking warrior. Like,

40:00

bro, I just feel like I

40:02

spent a lot of time feeling like that.

40:05

Feeling like, why me?

40:07

Why I gotta be strong? Why

40:10

I gotta fucking do this? Why?

40:14

Why? Why do I always have to keep a safe

40:16

face? And why? And

40:19

then it's just like, because

40:21

you do. Unfortunately.

40:29

It's just crazy, bruh. Niggas don't have

40:31

no respect. They don't give a fuck about us.

40:33

And I'm not gonna go blue in the face trying to prove

40:36

people to love us and care about us.

40:38

I'm just gonna love us. I'm gonna care

40:41

about us. I'm going to do it.

40:44

I'm just one person, but I

40:47

can be in control of. You know what

40:50

I mean? Like, I can preach the good word

40:52

till I'm blue in the face. Respect women. But

40:54

niggas just don't. They don't give a

40:56

fuck about us. And

40:59

it makes me want to cry saying that crazy

41:02

statement because I know people gonna hear it and

41:04

be like, that's crazy to say because we do. But

41:07

it don't feel like y'all do. So until it feel

41:09

like y'all do, I'm gonna

41:11

love us. Rico's

41:15

love and commitment to being strong for our

41:17

community is real.

41:20

On this tour, it was also lonely

41:24

and exhausting. It

41:26

was gonna take a whole new environment with

41:28

whole new energy for her

41:31

to feel that love

41:32

back.

41:52

Nothing

41:56

sits in muggy warehouses. Nothing

41:59

sits in muggy basements of stores.

42:02

When you order it, you're getting your product

42:05

made fresh for you, and people

42:07

love that.

42:08

To learn more, go to s-double-a-t-v-a-dot-com-slash-n-p-r.

42:20

It's a year after Cardi's tour, and

42:22

Rico's back on the road again. This

42:24

time, as a supporting act on

42:27

Kehlani's Blue Water Road Tour. And

42:29

Talila's back too, at the

42:31

same venue where that first bottle

42:33

was thrown at Rico in Portland. I'm

42:36

glad that she decided to come back. Talila

42:38

was worried Rico wouldn't come back. But

42:41

this tour has very different energy to it. With

42:43

Kehlani as the headliner, it's much more

42:45

queer, much more black, and

42:48

just more inviting.

42:50

When this show was announced, Talila jumped

42:52

on the tickets with her friend. She's a Kehlani

42:54

fan. We kind of made our outfits.

42:57

I was dressing for Rico, and she's dressing for Kehlani.

43:00

Our producer Sam J. Leeds

43:02

meets up with Talila by will call. Talila

43:04

walks up in a black crop top, red

43:07

bootleg pants with cutouts at the hip, bold

43:10

eyeliner, and of course, some

43:13

Doc Martens. So how does it feel to be

43:15

back knowing you're gonna see Rico? My

43:18

adrenaline is like pumping. I am

43:20

so nervous and so excited. She's

43:23

iconic. But before Talila and

43:25

Sam head to the mosh pits, Sam

43:28

has a surprise. Okay, so tonight,

43:32

we have organized the opportunity for you to

43:34

meet Rico. Oh,

43:37

shit, okay. How

43:39

are you feeling?

43:40

I'm nervous. I'm

43:43

sweaty. I

43:45

still hope she likes me besides those

43:48

two facts. Oh

43:51

my God, okay. Sam and Talila

43:53

start walking to meet up with Rico's tour manager.

43:56

My jaw is to the floor, and

43:58

I'm shaking, so.

43:59

Yep, yep. I'm

44:02

excited. Yeah, okay. I'm ready.

44:05

Let's do this. This is a deep breath. She's

44:10

just a regular person with talented talents. Okay.

44:13

Well, I'm

44:13

bringing her in, like, two minutes. All

44:15

right. Well, hang tight. Thank you. Backstage,

44:18

they're in the cafeteria space that all arenas

44:20

seem to have for the people who work there at the venue. Tables, tile floors,

44:22

empty

44:23

buffet stations, and

44:27

these vinyl booths up against one of the walls. So

44:29

maybe I should sit in the booth, but will she sit in the booth?

44:32

So we would never sit here, maybe. Oh,

44:35

yeah. Like, we're just two old friends catching

44:37

up.

44:38

Yeah, just catching up. No.

44:40

Okay. Casual.

44:43

As Celile plops down into one of the booths, she

44:46

talks about how she just got off work a few

44:48

hours ago and on the car ride home

44:51

listened to Smackabitch, the same

44:53

song that first put them on to Rico. This

44:56

song really hits after work. And

44:58

right as they're saying that. Oh, my God.

45:02

Rico strolls in. Oh, my God.

45:05

Hello. Rico. Blunt

45:07

in hand. Oh,

45:09

my God. Your outfit is beautiful. Thank

45:11

you. Rocking a red wig, black

45:14

leather jacket, mini skirt,

45:16

and

45:16

a trucker hat. Rico slides

45:18

into the booth right next to Tili-lei. How

45:20

do you feel, like, right before your big concert? Second

45:23

time? I

45:25

don't know. I was really nervous. I was like, how am I gonna...

45:28

You're Rico fucking nasty. What?

45:30

Come on. What? I mean, you're a

45:32

person, too. But, like, you know.

45:34

They start to talk about

45:36

the last time they were both here, what

45:38

they both went through. Yeah.

45:40

And I feel like the last tour was weird,

45:42

so... Oh, yeah. I got that vibe, too. It

45:45

didn't come for Cardi, so I was just like, I came for you. That

45:48

sucks. Yeah.

45:51

Yeah. It's just kind of, like, terrifying.

45:54

For you, like, being in the middle, like, hearing

45:56

them. Because I know at Red Rocks... Yeah.

45:59

...they was...

45:59

It was like a crowd full of white people. And

46:02

they was calling me a nigga bitch. They was calling

46:04

me a nigga. They was calling me all

46:07

types of shit. So I always wondered,

46:09

bro, is it my black girl

46:11

fans in the fucking crowd listening to niggas

46:13

be like that? And the crowd is like, I

46:16

want, because you can't, you a woman, and

46:18

there's all white men around you, and you black?

46:20

Bro, you can't say nothing, bro. You really can't

46:22

say nothing. It's just exhausting.

46:25

OK, so keep going. Before

46:28

the concert even started, these girls were just sitting

46:30

down, and these white boys kicked them

46:31

out of their seats, even though they bought those seats. They

46:34

started making up shit like, oh, those are fake tickets,

46:36

and then the girls were thinking of getting security,

46:38

but they didn't want to be snitches. And I was like, no, no, I'll do it.

46:40

If you want me to do it, I'll do it. Yeah. I was like,

46:43

oh, we don't want to be snitches. Ladies, ladies,

46:45

be snitches. Be bitches. Fuck

46:48

these niggas. We don't trust these niggas.

46:50

We definitely don't love these niggas.

46:52

We don't have sympathy for these niggas, these

46:55

weak-ass niggas, get these niggas in

46:57

trouble.

46:58

Get these niggas in the fuck trouble.

47:00

Do you fucking hear me? I just think at

47:02

the end of the day, all of it is just, speak

47:06

up. Like, for real, speak up. I didn't want

47:08

to tell nobody. Tell. Tell,

47:10

bitch. Tell. Because

47:13

nobody's going to fucking stand up for us. Like, you're

47:15

going to crowds of these men that are supposed to protect

47:18

us. They're not going to protect us. Protect your fucking self.

47:20

Well, I feel like you made us like

47:23

black girls who dress alternatively

47:26

or feel like weirdos. You made

47:28

us feel comfortable and safe. I

47:30

feel like when all of that shit was going on, I feel like that was

47:33

stripped away from me. I feel really weak. I

47:36

felt very like I

47:38

couldn't be that for y'all. For everything that I stand

47:40

for, for you guys, and everything that I stand for, in

47:44

this rap shit, literally for black

47:46

women, it's just like, that would have been so pussy.

47:48

I have to do it for us and anybody coming

47:50

after me. Rico's scene signals she has to get

47:52

ready to get on stage.

47:54

Thank you. Thank

47:57

you. What the hell? Thank you. This is

47:59

cool. Hearing your perspective was... Yeah,

48:01

no problem. Wow. Sorry,

48:04

I had to go through that. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm

48:06

sorry. Had to go through it. Shit. For

48:09

Talilay and Rico, being able

48:11

to say they got each other, it

48:13

doesn't change the past. It

48:16

doesn't solve everything. But

48:18

it is a reminder. When the world

48:20

tells us to deal with Massage Enoir alone,

48:23

community shows us we don't have to.

48:26

Thank you. Have a great show. Right

48:29

away. But don't.

48:31

No, just right away. Sam

48:33

and Talilay make their way back to meet up with Talilay's

48:35

friend in the pit. Okay. It

48:38

was... Okay, yeah. I got

48:40

to just meet Rico. Talilay

48:43

and her friend break away from Sam and

48:45

wade into the crowd.

48:46

The

48:49

lights go dark. Rico, Rico, Rico. And

48:51

Rico's DJ starts the chant.

48:54

Repeat after Rico, man. When

48:56

I

48:56

say Rico, y'all say nasty.

48:59

Rico. Rico. Rico.

49:02

Rico. Rico. The

49:06

whole pit screams for Rico and

49:09

starts to bounce. Talk

49:12

sick shit. You gonna have

49:14

to show me. You gonna have to

49:16

show me. All the way back in the stands,

49:19

people are up out their seats. You

49:22

gonna have to blow me. The crowd is here

49:24

for Rico. You gonna have to

49:26

blow me now.

49:29

And Rico knows it. You gonna

49:31

have

49:32

to blow me. You gonna have to

49:34

blow me. Talk sick shit.

49:37

You gonna have to show me. You

49:39

gonna have to show me. You gonna

49:42

have to blow me. Fizzy,

49:44

classy, rich, nasty.

49:47

Butter, yeah, girl, down. As

49:52

y'all know by now, this season is

49:54

about Massage En Noir and how it holds

49:56

us all back. So even the people with

49:58

the most power,

49:59

power in this culture, cis

50:02

straight men are tangled up

50:04

in it too. How has it

50:06

opened your eyes to the

50:08

inequality in the industry in

50:11

a way that we didn't already

50:13

know?

50:13

The way we've modeled ourselves after

50:16

our oppressors in so many ways is

50:18

just, that's the hardest nut to crack

50:20

in all of this. When you start

50:22

to think about how deeply ingrained it is, then you

50:25

start to think about ways that

50:27

you might have played a role without even

50:29

being conscious of it. Next episode,

50:33

we'll be doing something a little different. I'll

50:35

be taking us through rule number nine and

50:37

how hip hop shaped my own sense of

50:39

masculinity.

50:41

That's next time on Louder Than A Riot.

50:45

Louder Than A Riot is hosted by me, Sydney

50:48

Madden, and Rodney Carmichael. This

50:50

episode was written by myself and Sam

50:52

J. Leeds, and it was produced by

50:55

Sam J. Leeds.

50:55

Our senior producer is Gabby

50:57

Borgerelli. And our producers are

51:00

Sam J. Leeds and Mano Sundaresan.

51:03

Our editor is Soraya Shockley, and our engineer

51:05

is Gilly Moon. Our senior supervising

51:08

producer is Shira Vincent, and our interns

51:10

are Jose Sandoval, Teresa Shia,

51:13

and Pilar Galvan, with help from

51:15

Jerusalem Truth.

51:15

And the NPR execs are Keith Jenkins,

51:18

Yolanda Sanguini, and Anya Grundman. Original

51:21

theme by Casa Overall, remixed

51:24

by Suzy Analog. And scoring for this

51:26

episode was provided by Suzy Analog

51:28

and Casa

51:29

Overall. Our digital editor is Jacob

51:31

Gans. Our fact checker is Will

51:33

Chase. And shout out to our social media

51:35

voice actors. Alante Serene,

51:37

Brianna Scott, James Sneed, Andrea

51:40

Gutierrez, Juma Say, Bobby

51:42

Carter, Alex Curley, and Janet Lee.

51:45

If you liked this episode and you want to talk back,

51:48

hit us up on Twitter. We're at Louder

51:50

Than A Riot. And if you want to email us,

51:52

it's louder at NPR.org.

51:55

From NPR Music, I'm Rodney

51:57

Carmichael. And I'm Sydney Madden. This

52:00

is Louder Than a Riot.