0:00

Hi, everybody, it's Susie singer Carter. And I just wanted to

0:01

take a minute to tell you about

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documentary, No Country for Old

1:17

people and I thank you so much.

1:27

When the world has got shut down

1:30

and Alzheimer's

1:30

sucks, it's an equal opportunity

1:33

disease that chips away at

1:33

everything we hold dear. And to

1:37

date, there's no cure. So until

1:37

there is we continue to fight

1:41

with the most powerful tool in

1:41

our arsenal. Love. This is love

1:46

conquers all is a real and

1:46

really positive podcast that

1:50

takes a deep dive into

1:50

everything. Alzheimer's, The

1:53

Good, the Bad, and everything in

1:53

between. And now here are your

1:58

hosts Susie singer Carter and

1:58

me, Don priests.

2:06

Hello, I'm Susie singer Carter.

2:08

And I'm Don priests

2:08

and this is love conquers all

2:11

calls. Hello, Susan. Donald.

2:11

Hello, yes. Hello. You know,

2:17

it's interesting. I think this

2:17

if if you watch our episodes in

2:20

order, you will find that our

2:20

last three episodes your

2:23

background just keeps changing.

2:26

I like

2:26

variety. Yes, it looks to me

2:29

like this background.

2:29

It's real. It's not

2:29

virtual. It is real. It is you

2:33

could stand up and touch it. But

2:33

to do this.

2:37

Yeah. And I

2:37

put our I've put our illustrious

2:41

awards. Do you see our awards?

2:43

Fabulous. And the my

2:43

mom, the girl poster, girl

2:47

poster over there and delightful

2:47

pictures I have behind me have a

2:52

mirror and a lamp and tour a

2:52

bathroom door. And then a little

2:59

picture there? I think. So

2:59

mine's not as exciting as yours.

3:03

How are you?

3:03

You're

3:03

exciting. Yeah, I'm good. I'm

3:08

very good. We're talking about

3:08

you know, we're deep in the

3:11

trenches of of the documentary,

3:11

No Country for Old people. And,

3:16

you know, more and more and more

3:16

and more as we're editing. The

3:23

concept of ageism is at the

3:23

forefront of all the problems of

3:29

every single problem that's

3:29

going on. You know, it's all

3:33

occurring because of ageism.

3:37

Right. Absolutely. I

3:37

mean, you see it even in you

3:40

know, we always talk about, you

3:40

know, obviously the documentary

3:44

we're doing right now No Country

3:44

for Old people, but you see it

3:47

in, you know, we're trying to

3:47

raise money for this. It's the

3:50

hardest thing we've ever done

3:50

because people the ages and

3:54

comes in, they want to close

3:54

their eyes to it. They don't

3:57

want to hear about it. And

3:57

that's to me, that's a sign of

4:03

huge sign of ages and because

4:03

they feel oh, it doesn't affect

4:06

me it's or I just don't want to

4:06

hear about it. Bla bla bla bla

4:09

bla bla bla. And I think that's,

4:09

that's so telling, you know, as

4:16

to what our society looks at the

4:16

people you know, we should be

4:21

revered and not

4:23

to revere them all. Because some of them are no only

4:25

those who are cool.

4:30

People

4:30

Yeah. Not the yucky old people

4:33

just the nice old people. No, we don't like them. But no, but I'm just saying

4:36

like, just do you know, as I'm,

4:40

as I'm, you know, organizing all

4:40

of our research and trying to

4:46

put this puzzle together and you

4:46

keep going how is this

4:49

happening? Like it's so

4:49

egregious and you really comes

4:52

down to the fact that people are

4:52

just not paying attention to

4:58

what's going on and Our guest that's coming up

4:59

today. She's been talking about

5:06

this for this past decade. She's

5:06

amazing. And she's you know,

5:11

you're going to introduce her

5:11

but I am she is preaching our

5:17

word and singing to the choir

5:17

and by doing it much more

5:19

elegant, elegant,

5:21

Eloquently,

5:22

that's the word

5:23

just like that.

5:25

Just like that, like Don just did.

5:27

And elegantly too. I

5:27

think you've kind of crossed,

5:30

elegantly, elegantly and

5:30

eloquently.

5:33

Both those e words

5:35

and so the word you

5:35

said was a combo. You've created

5:38

a word and it's fabulous.

5:39

That's called a spoonerism.

5:41

Yes, a "suser-ism".

5:42

a

5:42

"susie-ism". Yeah, so I think I

5:46

Yeah, so I'm excited to have

5:46

this guest. I've been following

5:49

her on Instagram, and I feel

5:49

like, you know, I felt like she

5:55

would be so busy not to be to

5:55

come on our show. But here's she

5:58

lo and behold, lo and behold, we

5:58

we have some good karma. Got

6:03

her. So, Don, without further

6:03

ado.

6:07

Today, our guest is

6:07

Ashton Applewhite. She's a

6:09

journalist, humorist TED

6:09

speaker, and anti ageism

6:13

activist who is boldly leading a

6:13

grassroots movement to raise

6:17

awareness of ageism, and how to

6:17

dismantle it. She's the author

6:21

of numerous wonderfully crafted

6:21

books, including The

6:23

groundbreaking this chair rocks

6:23

a manifesto against ageism. The

6:28

Washington Post calls it one of

6:28

the 100 best books to read at

6:32

every age and Forbes raves about

6:32

it says one of the top 10 books

6:36

to help you foster a more

6:36

diverse and inclusive workspace.

6:40

And you know what? It's also a

6:40

great fun read. Ashton is also

6:45

the co founder of the old school

6:45

ageism Clearing House, which

6:49

provides free anti ageism

6:49

educational resources. And on

6:53

her enlightening blog, yo is

6:53

this ageist? She definitely

6:56

answers questions submitted by

6:56

readers about everyday instances

7:00

of ageism. The decade of healthy

7:00

aging, a collaboration between

7:04

the United Nations and the World

7:04

Health Organization recently

7:07

named her one of the Healthy

7:07

Aging 50, a group of leaders

7:11

transforming the world to be a

7:11

better place in which to grow

7:14

older, inspiring and empowering.

7:14

Ashton Applewhite truly wants

7:18

the world to know. It's time for

7:18

age pride. And we are proud to

7:22

have her with us today. So

7:22

please join us in welcoming

7:25

Ashton Applewhite. Hello,

7:25

Ashton.

7:28

I, Hi Ashton. and so happy to have

7:29

you here. So happy I've been

7:33

following your your Instagram

7:33

for a long time. And really, as

7:39

you know, I reached out to you a

7:39

couple of times, and just really

7:43

spoke to me and resonated so

7:43

much like like it does with I'm

7:47

so many other people. I

7:47

obviously think and, yeah,

7:52

you're welcome. Thank you. And,

7:52

you know, as you you might know,

7:56

I'm doing a documentary, Don and

7:56

I come No Country for Old

8:00

people. And, and at the root of

8:00

all this, the problems that

8:03

we're having in the nursing home

8:03

industry, and the long term care

8:07

system is ageism,

8:10

ageism and

8:10

ableism - stigma around physical

8:15

and cognitive capacity.

8:17

100% kind

8:17

of person. And, you know, I

8:19

witnessed it firsthand, last

8:19

year with my mom who had

8:23

Alzheimer's for 16 years, and

8:23

boy, was that a lethal

8:28

combination, that ageism and

8:28

ableism. At the very end, it was

8:34

lethal. I could not save her. I

8:34

couldn't sorry. Thank you. And,

8:40

and, you know, and, and it was,

8:40

it was daunting, the that I

8:46

really got a sense of what

8:46

ageism is, because it was you

8:50

know, you think about ageism,

8:50

I'm in Los Angeles. I'm in the

8:53

entertainment industry. And we

8:53

know what the ages of them is

8:56

there. Right. And, but But you

8:56

don't think about it in terms of

9:01

the healthcare system. You don't

9:01

think about it in terms of, of,

9:05

you know, your quality of life,

9:05

that you're having the actual

9:09

quality of life, the actual

9:09

motivation for people to even

9:17

acknowledge your existence?

9:20

Well, yeah,

9:20

and I would, I would posit that

9:23

you always have to zoom out and

9:23

look at the systems that are in

9:28

play. There's a great quote by

9:28

an African American scholar

9:31

named Amos Wilson that says, if

9:31

you want to understand any

9:34

problem in America, don't look

9:34

at who suffers from it. Look at

9:39

who profits from it.

9:41

I love that quote.

9:43

I know what's

9:43

really going on here is

9:45

capitalism is privatization.

9:45

There's a zillion studies, there

9:49

was just recently a huge one

9:49

about for profit hospices. Oh

9:54

yeah, we're where we have

9:54

already you know, commodified

9:57

birth now where we are

9:57

commodifying death because the

10:01

you know, the it's all being run

10:01

more and more with the bottom

10:05

line in mind and then zooming

10:05

out in another direction, but of

10:08

course it all intersects is is

10:08

capitalism reduces the value of

10:14

a human being to their, quote

10:14

unquote, productivity. Kids

10:18

aren't productive, right, and

10:18

they don't even vote. And a lot

10:22

of older people are not making

10:22

money anymore. So the assumption

10:25

is, if you know, you must be

10:25

useless, you must be a burden.

10:29

It's devaluing people simply

10:29

because of how old they happen

10:32

to be, which is pretty vile.

10:32

It's beyond vile, it's the it's,

10:38

it's definitely. It's

10:38

disgusting. Yeah, no, that's

10:42

exactly what my what our

10:42

documentary is about is, you

10:45

know, is the profit over people,

10:45

the wealthcare over health care

10:49

is what it is. Yeah. And it's,

10:49

it's, it's something that I

10:54

didn't know about, it's

10:54

something that the world, for

10:57

the most part doesn't know

10:57

about, until you're in it, and

10:59

then you're playing whack a

10:59

mole, and it's too late. It's

11:02

too late. So that my goal is and

11:02

I feel like you are you are

11:06

leading the way in this is to,

11:06

is to, you know, to make a

11:11

collective conscious conscience,

11:11

consciousness and conscience,

11:16

shift, and how we look at aging

11:16

and how we look at the value of

11:21

older people and how, and how

11:21

we've been able to desensitize

11:25

ourselves. And and, you know, as

11:25

a as a population, it's not just

11:29

here, it's global. Yeah, I mean,

11:29

it's really, it depends on where

11:35

in the world you are, it also

11:35

depends on how capitalist those

11:39

societies are. And it depends on

11:39

whether people of all ages live

11:43

in contact with each other, but

11:43

everywhere, you know, modern

11:49

systems have reached which is

11:49

pretty much everywhere. Now.It's

11:54

been harder for older people to

11:54

remain valued members of

11:58

society.

11:59

Indeed, I

11:59

found an article about with this

12:01

reporter who was discovering

12:01

this in African Garnet, and

12:05

talking about how you would

12:05

never see an elderly person on

12:10

the streets, you would never see

12:10

it because they just there was a

12:13

different kind of construct of

12:13

life and respect and reverence.

12:17

And, and, and it's now

12:17

prevalent, because it's become

12:22

the individualistic, you know,

12:22

paradigm has now moved into

12:26

that, which was more of a

12:26

communal paradigm. And now it's

12:30

become this everywhere. It's,

12:30

it's permeating it may not be,

12:35

you know, pervasive, 100%

12:35

pervasive, but it's certainly,

12:39

certainly moving into areas

12:39

where it wasn't even there

12:42

before. So.So first, I, I love

12:42

your book so much. I watched

12:48

your TED talk again last night.

12:48

And it's just so so inspiring.

12:52

And so, so, so much, it's so

12:52

true. Everything about it. Like

12:58

I get chills thinking about it,

12:58

because it's so true. And it's

13:00

so it boggles my mind. And I

13:00

guess I'm get to this age now.

13:04

And I think I had no idea

13:04

because I've never considered

13:09

aging, I just considered just

13:09

keep moving on. It's like,

13:11

well, you

13:11

know, I think I don't think it's

13:14

all ageism, I think it's hard to

13:14

imagine being old, you know,

13:18

especially ah, slowly. I mean,

13:18

as you're going, you know, I

13:21

remember being a kid and

13:21

thinking like, why are those

13:24

people just sitting in chairs?

13:24

Why would you sit when you could

13:26

run right, and so on. So it's,

13:26

it is hard to imagine our

13:30

futures. As, as we're as

13:30

species, we are not good at, you

13:35

know, Americans have trouble

13:35

saving, you know, we're, we're

13:37

not good at it. And we're not

13:37

culturally incentivized to do

13:43

so. We are short sighted, you

13:43

know, at collectively at

13:47

considerable cost. But, but

13:47

another reason we don't think

13:52

about it is because we tend to

13:52

think, you know, incidentally,

13:56

like IQ, it's all going to be

13:56

awful. the really fun thing,

14:00

since it's been sort of a gloomy

14:00

discussion so far, but I will

14:03

say that if you had told me 15

14:03

years ago, I would be fascinated

14:09

by aging, I would have said,

14:09

Ooh, why do I want to think

14:11

about something sad and

14:11

depressing that people do. And

14:15

aging is not what old people do.

14:15

Aging is a journey that we

14:19

embark upon the minute we are

14:19

born, right? And for a

14:24

generalist like me, it connects

14:24

to every aspect of being human.

14:29

It connects to every domain of

14:29

study from, I mean, maybe not

14:32

like astrophysics, but you know,

14:32

philosophy, economics, biology,

14:36

psychology, it's, it's, and, you

14:36

know, you made me think of this

14:41

because you say you don't want

14:41

to think about it. We don't

14:44

think about it much. But the

14:44

more you think about it, the

14:47

more interesting it is, and the

14:47

less fear. It holds, partly

14:54

because our our fears are so

14:54

huge. And I want to say very

14:58

clearly, those fears are notNot

14:58

without basis, there are real

15:02

things to worry about getting

15:02

sick, ending up alone running

15:07

out of money and I, you will not

15:07

hear me say oh, just you know,

15:10

have a good attitude or eat a

15:10

lot of kale do enough sit ups,

15:13

those things will go by by that

15:13

is not true. But we live in a

15:18

culture that profits in a

15:18

financial way and and

15:22

politically from those fears,

15:22

right? We never hear the other

15:26

side of the story. So the minute

15:26

you start actually looking at

15:29

aging, and please tell me if you

15:29

have a different opinion, but

15:33

you know, it's like, the scary

15:33

things are still there. But holy

15:36

crap, you know, all there's all

15:36

these other ways in which aging

15:40

enriches us and changes us and

15:40

informs us, let's tell the whole

15:44

side of the you know, the whole picture

15:47

100% I

15:47

don't disagree with you, I was

15:50

gonna wait to talk about your

15:50

you curve of happiness, because

15:53

you get touches on it, you know,

15:53

which really actually was very,

15:58

very appealing to me that

15:58

concept, because I didn't think

16:01

about that, that that actually

16:01

gave me a lot of hope. No

16:04

kidding.

16:05

Yeah, it's

16:05

the it's the finding that people

16:08

are happiest at the beginnings

16:08

and the ends of their lives. You

16:12

know, I think that as the

16:12

population ages, we need to do a

16:16

better job of taking care of

16:16

ourselves and each other in

16:20

later years, or that curve might

16:20

change. But it's it is true

16:24

across cultures, it is true,

16:24

whether you are wealthy or poor,

16:28

it is true, whether you are

16:28

married or single. So it's not

16:32

just you know, they didn't just,

16:32

you know, I was so skeptical

16:36

when I encountered this

16:36

statistic, you know, I'm like,

16:40

Oh, they must have, you know,

16:40

grabbed two lucky eight, eight

16:42

Okay, this

16:42

is so good for our audience,

16:44

year olds and given them a

16:44

cookie and said, How are you

16:48

doing, and it is a function of

16:48

the way aging itself affects the

16:52

healthy brain. And this is

16:52

despite living in a society that

16:56

that you know, has a lot of

16:56

negative messages about getting

17:00

older. So you know, when I, you

17:00

know, I remind my friends in

17:05

their 50s, I say, you know, this

17:05

is this is the trough, this is

17:09

where you are juggling maximum

17:09

responsibilities, maximum career

17:13

responsibilities, you know,

17:13

teenagers driving you crazy, et

17:17

cetera, et cetera. And one of

17:17

the things that makes midlife so

17:22

hard is the presumption because

17:22

of ageism, that of it sucks now,

17:26

it's just gonna get worse, and

17:26

it doesn't get worse, it gets

17:30

better. I think that is the

17:30

perception is that you know,

17:34

we're all going to end up you

17:34

know, in firm did lying in a

17:38

bed, you know, suffering. And

17:38

according to the statistics, you

17:42

show that that's not necessarily

17:42

the case that even remotely I

17:47

mean, don't take it from me take

17:47

it from let's I think most

17:51

people's darkest fear is

17:51

dementia. And Alzheimer's is

17:54

only one type of dementia, but

17:54

it is the most common and go to

17:59

the Alzheimer's Association

17:59

website. One in 10. Americans,

18:03

they estimate, it ends up with

18:03

Alzheimer's, that's a lot of

18:07

people. It's a terrible disease.

18:07

But speaking of the other side

18:11

of the story, you never hear

18:11

that rates of Alzheimer's are

18:15

declining, which they are and

18:15

that people are being diagnosed

18:19

at later ages. Again, not to

18:19

poopoo it, you know, there's

18:23

because I'm telling you, anybody

18:23

that's been a caregiver for

18:23

more older people. So there are

18:23

more cases, but the odds of you

18:27

or me being diagnosed with

18:27

Alzheimer's have gotten lower.

18:31

And yes, one out of 10 is a lot

18:31

of people. But if you look at a

18:36

curve, the incidence and age is

18:36

the greatest risk factor.

18:40

Absolutely. Again, you know,

18:40

don't want to soft pedal that.

18:44

But the older you are, the

18:44

greater the risk, most of those

18:48

people are in their 80s and 90s.

18:48

So the effect on most of us most

18:52

of the way is minimal, right.

18:52

And our fears make us more

18:56

vulnerable to exactly what we

18:56

fear. I mean, this, I'll just

19:00

say, one study, there's more and

19:00

more data. And this what when I

19:05

started thinking about this, I

19:05

could not say ageism makes you

19:09

sick. And now I can. There's all

19:09

sorts of data. And by the way,

19:13

if you don't want to buy my

19:13

book, I have been writing out

19:17

loud thinking out loud about

19:17

this on my blog, this chair

19:21

rocks.com/blog. So search health

19:21

search Alzheimer's, search for

19:25

levy because most of the

19:25

research has been done by a Yale

19:27

somebody with Alzheimer's. It's

19:27

a minute, the minute I can't

19:29

psychologist and epidemiologist

19:29

named Becca Levy. And one of her

19:30

think of a word, my heart goes

19:30

like this.

19:34

studies shows that people who

19:34

have she says a more positive

19:38

attitude towards aging. I like

19:38

to say more accurate attitude

19:42

because I don't want to ever

19:42

seem to be like cherry picking

19:46

the happy stuff. People with a

19:46

more accurate attitude towards

19:50

aging are less likely to get

19:50

Alzheimer's, wait for it, even

19:54

if they have the gene that

19:54

predisposes them to the disease

19:58

and her latest studies knows

19:58

that it can reverse, mild

20:02

cognitive decline, having

20:02

positive, accurate age beliefs

20:06

reverse. She's a really cautious

20:06

scientist. She has the data. So

20:10

when we think you know, if you

20:10

have long glasses one morning

20:14

and you think, Oh God, you know,

20:14

terror like, what if this means

20:19

the early stage of dementia,

20:19

that anxiety is what makes you

20:23

more liable? Because stress is

20:23

bad for us.

20:36

And that's

20:36

just human, you know, that is

20:39

human. No, I'm not dissing

20:39

anyone about when he percent of

20:43

the population escapes cognitive

20:43

decline entirely, physical

20:47

decline is inevitable, some part

20:47

of your body is going to fall

20:49

apart. Most of us do experience

20:49

some loss in some kinds of

20:55

processing speed and capacity,

20:55

the name of the movie that you

20:59

saw with what's her name last

20:59

week, but that's all you lose,

21:04

right? It takes us longer to

21:04

find our slippers. I mean, I

21:07

stand up, you know, my little

21:07

hack is when I realized, like,

21:12

I've left my computer downstairs

21:12

already to order the cloud, I

21:14

will stand up and name the

21:14

mission, I will literally say it

21:17

out loud, to increase the odds,

21:17

when by the time I get to the

21:20

bottom of the stairs, I'll

21:20

remember what I went down there

21:24

for now, I don't love having to

21:24

do that. You know, I don't love

21:27

having to spend longer trying to

21:27

remember. But if it comes back

21:31

to me, and I know that the odds

21:31

are really, really, really,

21:35

really, really excellent that

21:35

I'm not going to get that

21:38

ability back. But it doesn't

21:38

mean I'm not going to remember

21:42

what my computer is for. By

21:42

Thursday, right? The fear is

21:46

right for us.

21:48

That's such

21:48

a good point that you said, you

21:50

said in the in your TED talk, I

21:50

think it was about about, you

21:54

know, I'm 64. And I've got a bad

21:54

knee, I'm getting old. Well,

21:57

your other leg doesn't have a

21:57

bad knee. And it's just as old.

22:01

So it's, and I love that if you

22:01

can frame it like that and keep

22:04

positive about it. You know,

22:04

because you're right. There's so

22:07

much pressure and

22:09

positive but

22:09

accurate, like accurate. Yeah,

22:11

right. Think about we all have

22:11

this tendency, no judgment, to

22:16

blame stuff on how old we are.

22:16

I'm too old for that, well,

22:20

maybe your knee is too messed

22:20

up. Maybe you're too lazy. Maybe

22:24

you're too out of shape. Maybe

22:24

you're too smart for it. Maybe

22:28

you did it when you were 50. And

22:28

you're gonna need to do it

22:30

again. It's never about age, it

22:30

is about physical capacity in

22:36

that context, and the decline of

22:36

physical capacity. does it

22:41

relate to age, it's not that age

22:41

is irrelevant. It's that we have

22:45

to break the habit of saying,

22:45

Oh, this is what young people

22:48

do. This is what old people do

22:48

the whole idea of age

22:50

appropriate. If the person is

22:50

like, over the age of consent,

22:54

there's no such thing.

22:57

Amen. I

22:57

believe that. I want to go

23:01

scooch back to the beginning

23:01

now. So because I just want to

23:04

frame this for our audience. So

23:04

because I am getting I'm

23:08

grasping with this, I'm grasping

23:08

how to figure out how to do this

23:11

this collective advocacy, as you

23:11

said, you know, like how, how

23:15

can we because because the

23:15

nursing home crisis is so it's

23:19

broken, our system is broken.

23:19

And people because of ageism,

23:23

don't look at it, because it

23:23

doesn't affect them yet. But

23:26

really, my mom's story is

23:26

everybody's story. It's yours.

23:29

It's mine. It's Don's It's everybody's

23:30

story of someone you care about?

23:32

Absolutely.

23:32

We're at one point, we're all

23:35

going to be a caregiver or

23:35

needed caregiver, just that's

23:37

the way it is.

23:38

Right and thinking of

23:38

it as just an old people's

23:41

problem, you know, or they're

23:41

old people, older people you

23:44

care about, you know, yeah, and

23:44

younger people and young people

23:47

you care about, right? And so I

23:47

would like not to be

23:49

circumscribed by being it's I

23:49

mean, caring for people is a

23:54

beautiful, valuable, important

23:54

part of being human. What makes

23:58

it a burden is going it alone

23:58

without support and under

24:04

neoliberal capitalism, it's like

24:04

it's your problem as an

24:08

individual and it's shouldn't be

24:08

a course it's it's your problem.

24:12

No one loves your mom more than

24:12

you do. But it's all should be

24:16

not just a family issue, but a

24:16

social issue right where we have

24:21

systems because one of the

24:21

reasons our fears are so great

24:25

is because there is so little

24:25

social and political support

24:29

now there

24:29

are no and and what is is very

24:32

you know, it's it's it's

24:32

performative at best, it's

24:36

fairly it is politically and

24:36

monetarily motivated. There's no

24:40

oversight, it's it's just really

24:40

wrapped against human rights.

24:44

Basically, it's it's, you know,

24:44

for to be crude about it. There.

24:48

Were warehousing are vulnerable.

24:51

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you

24:51

know, these are human rights,

24:55

and human rights should not

24:55

expire with them.

24:58

Yeah. And

24:58

capitalism. And and care

25:02

coincide. Is it possible for

25:02

capitalism and care to to act to

25:08

work together? Where?

25:10

Yeah, if we I mean, it

25:10

would mean, that court that we

25:14

would have to choose and put in

25:14

enact policy, that that has a

25:21

priority other than corporate

25:21

profits. You know, so that's, I

25:28

mean, I mean, don't get me

25:28

started on the colossal

25:32

benefits. I mean, just even

25:32

with, you know, with two oil

25:35

companies, despite the fact that

25:35

the the, you know, the planet is

25:39

frying, and they are making

25:39

colossal profits still, rather

25:45

than putting any money into

25:45

corrective measures, or, you

25:48

know, these the people who own

25:48

the, you know, hospitals and

25:52

hospices, they're making buckets

25:52

of dough. If they made less

25:56

money when we're not, you know,

25:56

then yes, that money could be

26:00

diverted, it's doable, but we

26:00

need the political will. And we

26:03

need the political mechanisms,

26:05

the political mechanism is not going to happen until the people stand

26:07

up and demand it because right

26:10

now, it's too it's too

26:10

advantageous. And there's no,

26:13

they're not incentivized at all

26:13

to make any changes. Because

26:16

that it's basically they're

26:16

just, you know, CMS, don't get

26:20

me started because to be there,

26:20

there's like, there's zero

26:23

oversight, they're handing the

26:23

money to the foxes who are what

26:26

looking at the chickens and

26:26

they're going, Hey, you go go on

26:29

in rent a room there, nothing

26:30

changes, except by the

26:30

end unless people literally get

26:36

in the streets and demand it.

26:36

That is literally that is what

26:40

compels social change, laws

26:40

don't shape behavior, behavior,

26:45

shapes, legislation, behavior,

26:45

forces, policy and legislation.

26:49

Listen to that. Listen to that, my friends, because that is so

26:51

true, right, Dawn that

26:54

we've seen it and it

26:54

and we've seen it done before.

26:57

And we have no reason it can't

26:57

be done now.

27:01

I just read a great

27:01

quote in the context of, of

27:05

patriarchy with a lot of all the

27:05

discussion that the Barbie movie

27:08

has people talking about

27:08

patriarchy, which regardless of

27:12

what you thought of the movie is

27:12

fantastic. Because it's for

27:16

it's, it's IT people, when

27:16

people talk about patriarchy,

27:19

they are zooming out and looking

27:19

at the system that oppresses all

27:25

women. Right, you know, and

27:25

that's, that's so important. You

27:29

know, there are systems here

27:29

that we need to recognize, so

27:32

that we don't get squabbling

27:32

about about smaller things, and

27:34

who has a better, you know,

27:34

piece of the pie or worse deal

27:38

or whatever, we need to join

27:38

forces across difference to

27:41

force to build coalitions and

27:41

compel change and

27:45

patriarchy can also

27:45

you know, we it shouldn't be so

27:47

tied to gender, patriarchy is

27:47

now much bigger

27:52

than for men to the

27:52

quotes I've spaced and forgot

27:55

the quote, the patriarchy, you

27:55

know, can't want a woman said,

27:58

Can Can we change patriarchy?

27:58

And, you know, and the answer

28:02

was, people created these

28:02

systems and people can change

28:05

them. That's right. You know,

28:05

they are, they are, you know,

28:09

sociology speak, they are

28:09

socially constructed. You know,

28:13

like, race is a social

28:13

construction, it is not biology.

28:18

You know, there is not they're

28:18

not the patriarchy piece running

28:21

around. But of course, women are

28:21

complicit in patriarchy to were

28:25

brainwashed, we're all complicit

28:25

in ageism, we all grow up

28:29

surrounded by these systems. And

28:29

the first and hardest step is to

28:33

look at our own our own

28:33

perceptions of these systems and

28:37

our own bias and the way in

28:37

which we contribute to them and

28:41

need to, you know, re re align

28:41

ourselves. That is hard, that is

28:47

unpleasant. The good news is

28:47

that the next step and the next

28:50

step, there's nothing automatic

28:50

about understanding, you're

28:56

acknowledging that you are

28:56

biased, which we all are, and

29:00

it's not a fun realization. The

29:00

next step is fantastic, because

29:04

it happens automatically. It's

29:04

like letting a genie out of the

29:07

bottle. Once you start to see

29:07

ageism in the culture around

29:11

you, or patriarchy and the

29:11

culture around you. Boom, you

29:15

start to see it everywhere,

29:15

right? That's what consciousness

29:18

raising does. You start to see

29:18

like, oh, it's not because I'm

29:23

to fill in the blank, too, you

29:23

know, too unwell, too bossy, to

29:31

whatever there are blondes to

29:31

two blonde. I mean, with women,

29:36

you know, too smart or too

29:36

quiet, too old or too young.

29:39

You're never you're never the

29:39

right thing. And so it's not

29:42

about you. It's about systems

29:42

that profit from our divisions.

29:49

Exactly.

29:49

Exactly. Did not just just pivot

29:53

a second Did you? Did you see

29:53

the Barbie movie? I did. Did

29:56

what do you think I loved it. Me

29:56

too. Amen. Yeah, we did too. I

30:01

thought that I thought that

30:01

America Ferraris monologue which

30:04

just kicked ass that, you know,

30:04

I thought that you might like it

30:08

after listening to what you

30:08

you're reading what Yeah,

30:12

it's about the

30:12

contradictions of being a woman.

30:16

And I just you know from a nerdy

30:16

your perspective, the Harvard

30:19

Business Review just published a

30:19

piece about women in leadership

30:23

positions talking about why

30:23

there are so few good news,

30:27

there's always a reason why

30:27

women are not promoted, you are

30:30

either too single, too divorced

30:30

or too married, you are too

30:34

sexy, or not sexy enough, you

30:34

are too assertive, and annoy

30:39

people or you're not assertive

30:39

enough, therefore can't possibly

30:41

be a leader. And there's no age

30:41

wise, there's no sweet spot,

30:45

fertility wise, there's no sweet

30:45

spot, men get a promotion, if

30:49

they're going to become fathers,

30:49

women get sidelined. Because of

30:53

patriarchy and capitalism, the

30:53

gender wage gap benefits the

30:57

bottom line, it works for

30:57

corporations, if women are

31:01

competing for two seats at the

31:01

table, instead of insisting on a

31:04

crack at all 10 of them.

31:06

And then what it does is it pits women against women. That's what I

31:08

grew up with, you know, pitting

31:11

women against women. So I mean,

31:11

I did a whole I did a

31:14

documentary for the Writers

31:14

Guild couple years ago, just

31:17

about that, you know, about

31:18

right, stay at home

31:18

moms arguing with moms in the

31:21

paid workforce about who's a

31:21

better mom, instead of coming

31:26

together to force, you know,

31:26

collective actions to close the

31:31

gender wage gap. So women could

31:31

choose

31:34

right not to stay while the guys are having their boys club and just

31:35

climbing up the you know,

31:38

failing upwards. We were you

31:38

know, we're trying to break the

31:42

glass ceiling at every chance we

31:42

can get. And as soon as one

31:45

woman does, they, they're, you

31:45

know, they're they're blocking

31:48

it back up, they're taping it

31:48

back up, because they're really

31:51

not.

31:51

And that's Yeah, yeah,

31:51

but I hear you, I know, you're

31:54

not I, I hear you. And I just

31:54

want to put in make the point

31:58

that as white women, much of

31:58

mainstream white feminism has

32:04

benefited other white women, and

32:04

at the expense of women with

32:09

disabilities, of women of color,

32:09

and that we really need to be

32:14

conscious that the changes that

32:14

we want to see are done in

32:19

consultation and collaboration

32:19

with women who don't look like

32:24

us, who may have ideas that

32:24

don't make sense to us, or that

32:28

we don't agree with but they

32:28

are, that doesn't make them

32:31

wrong or not legitimate. And in

32:31

fact, you know, they may make

32:35

some especially important

32:35

because they're missing from the

32:37

conversation, we need to be

32:37

aware of that because, you know,

32:41

if those women, women with less

32:41

privilege do not enjoy equity,

32:46

none of us are free.

32:47

Agreed. I mean, I feel like you know, in our in, at least in my little

32:49

social circle, you know, in my

32:54

workforce, it's there is a big

32:54

shift. And then yeah, there's a

32:58

very, very big conscious, F

32:58

conscious, it's been going on

33:02

for I want to say the last four

33:02

years, where women of color

33:06

women of disability are really

33:06

coming into their own power and

33:09

past and and it is it's

33:09

evidenced by the kinds of

33:13

content that we have, by the by

33:13

the leadership of women is been

33:18

really it is it is really Don't

33:18

you agree, Don? It's very,

33:22

I think you

33:22

definitely yeah, it you see it

33:24

more and more literally every

33:24

day. And then then you get into

33:29

the issue. And this is all you

33:29

know, the same thing about, you

33:31

know, well wait, now we're going

33:31

to go too far that way. So the

33:35

other people like Susie doesn't

33:35

have a chance now, because now

33:39

it's all going you know, and that's

33:42

and we've talked about that we've talked we talked about that all the

33:43

time. It's

33:45

not zero sum. Now. You

33:45

know, Ruth Bader Ginsburg was

33:49

asked how many women she shot

33:49

thought she'd be on the Supreme

33:52

Court. And she said, nine you

33:52

know, which she didn't mean, it

33:56

should write it needs to be all

33:56

women. But women need to think

33:59

why are we thinking in terms of

33:59

the traditional share that's

34:02

gone to women, or even 50%? Men?

34:02

Don't men don't think that way?

34:06

Because they don't have to?

34:06

Because and they're not. They're

34:09

not? They're not used to doing

34:09

so because the system doesn't

34:13

compel them to think that way.

34:13

Right. And, and so, but those

34:18

systems are not good for anyone

34:18

you know, patriarchy is why we

34:23

have toxic masculinity and men

34:23

who are, you know, unable to be

34:27

vulnerable publicly and in

34:27

cells, you know, the most

34:31

radical and, you know, you know,

34:31

literally shooting women because

34:36

they're, you know, not, they

34:36

shouldn't be able to, you know,

34:40

have all the power, and they

34:40

resent when it will. But you

34:43

know, all this, the pushback

34:43

that you mentioned, is a sign

34:47

that we are getting somewhere

34:47

you know, to hear people talk me

34:50

to was a failure. Black Lives

34:50

Matter is over occupy was a

34:54

flop. I disagree. I think those

34:54

ideas are living on powerfully

34:59

in the culture She agreed. And

34:59

you know, it's incredibly

35:02

demoralizing to see the pushback

35:02

on women's rights. Let's pass

35:05

the Equal Rights Amendment. How

35:05

about that one. But the fact

35:10

that there's pushback is a sign

35:10

that these movements are

35:13

beginning to threaten actual

35:13

power structures.

35:16

I agree. Yeah. And

35:16

it's and it's can be incremental

35:19

in that, even like, with our

35:19

documentary, we're like, you

35:21

know, when we know when, when

35:21

this is over, we are not going

35:24

to solve the entire problem. But

35:24

if you can chip away, and you

35:29

had the Legos, chip, chip chip,

35:29

and we said leaving if look, if

35:32

we if we make two people's lives

35:32

better, that's better.

35:37

I completely agree. We

35:37

I'm, I am a co founder of a site

35:42

called Old School, which I will

35:42

just say is the it's hundreds of

35:46

free vetted resources to educate

35:46

people about ageism, old school

35:51

dot info. And we have a weekly

35:51

meetup, anyone can join, go to

35:55

old school dot info and find out

35:55

how it's easy. Um, but we end

35:59

each meeting with it's, you

35:59

know, it's no step is too small,

36:03

no step is too late. We are not

36:03

going to end ages, we are not

36:06

going to end racism. But a

36:06

formulation that I find really

36:12

helpful, is it you know, it can

36:12

seem I don't like to talk in

36:16

terms of ending it, you know,

36:16

we're helping to end it, we're

36:18

moving the needle. Yeah. And it

36:18

can feel like a really heavy

36:23

load, when you realize that, you

36:23

know, these systems depend on

36:27

each other and reinforce each

36:27

other, right, this idea of

36:31

intersectionality of this, you

36:31

know, weight layer of weights,

36:34

but just exactly what you just

36:34

said, Dawn, that when we chip

36:38

away at any form of prejudice,

36:38

we chip away at the fear and

36:43

ignorance that underlie them

36:43

all. When you are being anti

36:47

racist, you are helping in

36:47

ageism, you are making life

36:50

better for older people of

36:50

color, when you chip away at

36:53

ageism, you are helping everyone

36:53

because all people who are

36:57

lucky, right, and aging should

36:57

not be a privilege, it should be

37:02

a right. But it's not because of

37:02

all these forms of oppression.

37:06

We're working constantly with

37:06

the littlest movements to to

37:11

undermine them all. So it's not

37:11

zero sum, you know, that

37:14

activism is, you know, is is

37:14

intersectional. Also,

37:19

yes. I love

37:19

that. Yeah. And I got never too

37:23

small, thank you to remind me

37:23

that because, you know, in this

37:26

in this world, where we're

37:26

living right now in the world of

37:29

healthcare, and you realize that

37:29

every second that goes by

37:33

someone's suffering, because of

37:33

the of this, this system that we

37:38

have created, which really, you

37:38

have to blame it on ages, and

37:42

because if the if everyone in

37:42

the public knew what was going

37:47

on and really knew, I mean, we

37:47

give more, we give more grace to

37:52

pets, and children and

37:52

prisoners, and yet we've got

37:56

people warehouse, and they're,

37:56

they're suffering, it's torture.

38:00

What's going on? And I'm not I'm

38:00

not exaggerating. I mean, it

38:03

really is.

38:04

I mean, I wouldn't want

38:04

to say we're, we treat prisoners

38:08

better. But a rather than

38:08

getting into an argument about

38:11

that, which I know you're,

38:11

you're with me on this, let's

38:13

look at the same forces that

38:13

profit from the prison

38:17

industrial complex. You know,

38:17

yeah, they are related, which is

38:21

why the umbrella of capitalism

38:21

is so useful.

38:24

Yeah,

38:24

you're right. You're right. So

38:28

what are the roots of ages? And

38:28

just give us a couple? What do

38:32

you what is it all come from?

38:35

Um, well, you know, it

38:35

comes from the culture around

38:40

us. And I think, um, you know,

38:40

we already touched on the fact

38:46

that it's hard to imagine

38:46

growing old longevity, this

38:49

longevity is new, you know,

38:49

humans in the last 100 years are

38:53

living everywhere longer than

38:53

ever before. When people life

38:57

expectancy average life

38:57

expectancy in the US at the turn

39:00

of the 20th century was 47. So

39:00

there's a lot more openness. And

39:07

in the 20th century, it started

39:07

to be conceived of as a problem

39:12

to be solved, which is when

39:12

retirement villages came into

39:17

being, it's when nursing homes

39:17

came into being. It's when

39:21

Social Security came into being

39:21

which has lifted millions and

39:24

millions of Americans out of

39:24

poverty, but it also othered

39:28

older people, and it made it

39:28

easier to conceive of us as a

39:32

problem as an economic burden.

39:32

So you know, the answers to all

39:36

these things are really, really

39:36

complex. I mean, longevity

39:41

represents a triumph of public

39:41

health. Again, the issues are

39:46

real, you know, because of

39:46

ableism because of the loss of

39:51

physical and cognitive capacity,

39:51

which is not synonymous with

39:54

aging. Lots of older people are

39:54

sharp as a weapon active to the

39:58

end, but they do relate ate,

39:58

right. And because of that an

40:03

older population is going to

40:03

require support. And that's

40:05

complicated. And the extreme end

40:05

of the supports that they need

40:09

is exactly the subject of your

40:09

important work and your

40:12

documentary. Right. So we need

40:12

to acknowledge those things, but

40:17

we need to, we need to

40:17

understand where the fears come

40:23

from, and what purpose they

40:23

serve. And, you know, ableism,

40:29

which is a stigma and prejudice

40:29

around physical or cognitive

40:33

capacity. You know, I think most

40:33

of what we think of as ageism,

40:38

most of our apprehension about

40:38

getting older is about that

40:41

loss. And that is not actually

40:41

again, it's related to age, but

40:46

lots of younger people have

40:46

disabilities, lots of older

40:49

people do not and we need to

40:49

understand what they are, where

40:53

they're different, how they

40:53

overlap of the information other

40:56

in order to understand what

40:56

we're up against coalition

40:59

building, think there's, there's

40:59

a fantastic Disability Justice

41:03

Movement, mostly led by young

41:03

queer women of color, who

41:07

identify proudly as disabled who

41:07

are doing all sorts of amazing

41:11

work. You know, I think what we

41:11

olders who are aging into

41:15

disability could learn from them

41:15

about adapting and identifying,

41:20

and you know, they could learn a

41:20

thing or two from us, right?

41:23

Yeah, instead of just going to,

41:23

I'm maybe old, but at least I'm

41:27

not disabled. And from the other

41:27

end, I may just say, be

41:30

disabled, but at least I'm not

41:30

old. You know, that's a whole

41:33

little thing, like people not

41:33

wanting to use canes and

41:37

walkers, because it makes them

41:37

look old. And by the way, most

41:40

of those people are 6070 and 80.

41:40

They don't want to go to work,

41:43

you know, senior joint, because

41:43

it's full of old

41:47

people, people. Yeah,

41:48

yeah. Can't have that

41:48

PS, you're one

41:51

of Yes,

41:51

exactly. Right.

41:53

I mean, huge tell is

41:53

how many people who have more

41:57

road behind them than ahead.

41:57

Still talk about older people

42:02

as them. Right.

42:04

And as long, you know,

42:04

ageism is a distancing from your

42:08

own future older self and it is

42:08

not healthy. To go through life.

42:13

You know, in in that with that

42:13

kind of distance is a four

42:19

letter

42:19

word is is older for

42:19

us. Is it something that we

42:22

should just banish from our

42:22

vocabulary, or it'll tell us

42:25

about is, is bad,

42:27

we'll know things are

42:27

old antiques are old, we love

42:30

you know, Europe's old. We love

42:30

that shit. You know, what's the

42:34

problem is the negative

42:34

connotation attached to old. I

42:39

mean, if you think about dyke,

42:39

right, or queer, those used to

42:44

be deep pejoratives. And they

42:44

were appropriated by the gay

42:49

community and gay women, as you

42:49

know, and crip is another one,

42:54

that many people with

42:54

disabilities now identify with

42:57

proudly, if you know, I'm old, I

42:57

don't have a problem saying

43:01

that, but it took me a long time

43:01

to get there. If you don't want

43:04

to call yourself old, no

43:04

judgement. We each need to do

43:09

this in our own way at our own

43:09

time, but it shouldn't be

43:13

pejorative, it should be just

43:13

another word like, you know,

43:18

Indonesian, or, you know,

43:18

vegetarian. That is it, we

43:23

can maybe we need another pronoun like they,

43:26

or maybe let's

43:26

embrace it young or old. We're

43:29

just a

43:29

person and we're, we're on a

43:31

journey. I believe we

43:32

embrace it. But

43:32

honestly, the world I want is

43:35

not. It is a world in which age

43:35

is neutral, right? It's there.

43:40

It's a crucial part of our

43:40

identity. But it doesn't have

43:43

any value attached to it. It has

43:43

information, but not value. And

43:49

just one point about the

43:49

information. The older we age at

43:55

different rates, right? And each

43:55

one of us in a sense, we're

43:58

socially at some level,

43:58

psychologically, another

44:00

physically another

44:00

developmentally. So then each of

44:04

those is sort of a variable

44:04

component of in each of us. So

44:08

the older the person, the less

44:08

their age, their chronological

44:13

age says about them. The you

44:13

know, gerontologists

44:17

geriatricians Who are you know,

44:17

doctors for old people say, and

44:21

I've heard them say it, if

44:21

you've seen one, octogenarian

44:24

you've seen one octogenarian

44:24

there could be it's, you know,

44:28

this whole argument about

44:28

whether you're too old to run

44:31

for office, you know that the

44:31

health profile of a single 80

44:36

year old especially if you are a

44:36

well off white man who has the

44:38

best you know, health care and

44:38

fitness and diet available to

44:42

them says nothing you know,

44:42

about the likely you know, the

44:46

health status of another. So, I

44:46

want a world where age is not

44:52

just a number, we can't dismiss

44:52

it. We shouldn't wish to put it

44:55

under the rug but where it's

44:55

stripped of any positive or

45:00

negative connotation. It's like

45:00

what kind of car you drive where

45:05

you live, who you sleep with,

45:05

it's part of who we are. And we

45:10

shouldn't be discriminated

45:10

against it and we shouldn't be

45:12

put on a pedestal or dumped in a

45:12

nursing home. Well, we're, by

45:16

the way, sorry, one more or

45:16

less. But people don't end up in

45:20

nursing homes because they're

45:20

old. They end up in nursing

45:23

homes, because they're disabled.

45:23

So y'all could do some really,

45:27

really interesting advocacy

45:27

around that, because people who

45:32

think institutional care is fine

45:32

for old people, but not okay for

45:37

young people. Right are being

45:37

ageist. And we, it's the same

45:44

cause no one at any age should

45:44

be dumped in a shitty

45:49

institution. We do they do. If

45:49

you need, you know, professional

45:53

nursing care, you need a

45:53

facility that can provide it

45:56

right. But it shouldn't be, you

45:56

know, understaffed and all those

46:00

things. You know, that's already

46:02

how you might

46:02

build coalitions with the

46:06

disability justice movement

46:06

around the de

46:08

institutionalisation which we

46:08

saw a lot of in the 20th

46:12

century, you know, of people

46:12

with disabilities living in

46:15

community, where is that ethos

46:15

when it comes to older people,

46:19

because age should not

46:19

disqualify you from that ethical

46:22

standard. Right, right. We and I

46:22

think that come and I agree with

46:27

you, 100%, we we interviewed

46:27

people that are of different

46:32

ages in in nursing homes, just

46:32

so that we can make that point.

46:37

But but still in all and I

46:37

always talk about it on our show

46:40

about you know, Benjamin Button,

46:40

which is my greatest references

46:44

that, you know, we, we, you

46:44

know, children babies don't have

46:48

language for sometimes for two

46:48

and a half, three years. They

46:50

don't use words. They don't

46:50

articulate, but they certainly

46:53

they certainly communicate. And

46:53

we give them grace and we

46:57

communicate with them. And we

46:57

can we can we know when they're

46:59

happy. We know when they're sad.

46:59

We know when they're mad for

47:01

sure. We know how they're hungry

47:01

and and in discomfort. Well,

47:06

that's the same with someone

47:06

who's lost their ability to to

47:09

articulate, you know,

47:09

physically, they will. Yeah,

47:14

another study of Becca Levy, she

47:14

coined the term elder speak,

47:18

which is that sort of

47:18

derogatory, condescending, Oh,

47:22

honey, it can be benevolent and

47:22

intent, but it's still

47:25

condescending and not okay, that

47:25

even people with profound

47:29

dementia grew more agitated.

47:29

When people spoke

47:33

condescendingly 100%, and the

47:33

education in our, in our world,

47:38

you know, in terms of that, in

47:38

terms of aging, in terms of what

47:40

you just said, is, is so

47:40

deficient, because the even the

47:45

people working within the

47:45

industry are so under educated,

47:49

you know, I mean, I had they

47:49

can, they can be there often, it

47:52

was a huge surprise to me, you

47:52

know, when I because I came to

47:55

this with no background in the

47:55

field whatsoever. And when I

47:58

sort of, you know, drank the

47:58

Kool Aid and went, gee, we

48:01

really need to call out ageism,

48:01

that was before I understood

48:04

that ableism was also a big

48:04

piece of it, they're going to be

48:07

so happy to hear from me, well,

48:07

not so much, because and I'd say

48:10

this with no disrespect at all,

48:10

the work that people do in

48:15

nursing homes, and other you

48:15

know, institutional settings,

48:18

care in general, is incredibly

48:18

important, and incredibly

48:23

undervalued. And it is hard.

48:23

And, and it is really hard. And,

48:28

you know, caring for the people

48:28

at the most debilitated end of

48:31

the spectrum, in it is really,

48:31

really hard to reconcile that

48:37

piece of getting old with what

48:37

you hope lies ahead for

48:41

yourself. You know, that's a

48:41

tough psychic task. And, you

48:46

know, I respect that they are

48:46

embarked on it and doing the

48:49

best they can. Absolutely, we

48:49

just need to give them the

48:51

support that they need to which

48:51

they're not education. Yeah. And

48:55

education. So we have we had a

48:55

huge exodus of, of, you know,

48:59

frontline workers and providers

48:59

who have just can't deal with it

49:02

because there's moral injury,

49:02

they can't do the job they want

49:05

to do. And so they're not being

49:05

paid. There's not enough

49:08

benefits, they're being

49:08

disrespected, and they're being

49:10

overworked. Because, you know,

49:10

that's where they cut corners on

49:14

cost Agree, agree. And that's why

49:15

the work is you know, done by so

49:19

much of it by women, so many of

49:19

which are not, you know,

49:22

registered citizens who are ripe

49:22

for exploitation. So I mean, you

49:27

know, all this already, but it's

49:27

yeah, the reasons so many older

49:30

people died in institutional

49:30

care was because care workers

49:35

had to have several jobs in

49:35

order to put food on the table

49:39

for their kids. So they

49:39

unintentionally became vectors

49:43

for the COVID virus. We could

49:43

talk for 17 hours and I love

49:48

stuff that we didn't even get to

49:48

but I don't care I like always

49:51

the way I love you so much. You

49:51

are my you're my queen. You're

49:55

you're speaking so well for us

49:55

and I so proud to know you and

50:00

I'm so proud of the work you're

50:00

doing. So thank you

50:03

You're so welcome.

50:03

so, so much.

50:05

Thank you.

50:06

Thank you for making this movie making a documentary is hard, you know?

50:07

So

50:10

Indeed.

50:11

All right,

50:11

good luck to you.

50:12

Have a great day. Take care, take care.

50:14

Well, that

50:14

was an amazing interview. I love

50:18

that woman. And I hope that

50:18

everyone got a lot out of it,

50:22

because I got so much out of it.

50:22

And if you if you didn't get

50:25

enough of her on this podcast,

50:25

do go and watch her TED Talk.

50:30

Listen to her TED Talk. It's so

50:30

good. It's so invigorating and

50:36

smart.

50:36

It's amazing how she

50:36

changes you like the way she

50:40

speaks. She changes your

50:40

perspective. And changing that

50:42

perspective is everything. You

50:42

know, when she's talking about,

50:46

you know, one out of 10 people

50:46

may get Alzheimer's? Well, if

50:51

you look at it as nine out of

50:51

10, won't. That sounds? I mean,

50:57

that that kind of takes some of

50:57

that worry away. And she said

50:59

that worry is what leads can

50:59

help lead to that, you know, so

51:04

if nine out of if nine out of 10

51:04

adults are worrying about being

51:08

the one out of 10. You know,

51:08

then I mean, it's so just

51:12

changing that viewpoint is

51:12

amazing, and everything, and she

51:15

does it in a way that you just

51:15

see it right away.

51:18

I agree. I

51:18

think that how how we view

51:22

ourselves is always going to be

51:22

is always going to impact how we

51:27

feel, how we how productive we

51:27

are, what we put out into the

51:32

world and what we attract,

51:32

right? So if we're feeling

51:35

negative, we're going to attract

51:35

negativity, we're going to

51:37

attract we make you know that we

51:37

know that our that our mental

51:41

state is how it always affects

51:41

our physical state. That's

51:45

that's just a given. So if we're

51:45

going to stress and lament about

51:50

some construct that isn't even

51:50

relate to us about aging, that's

51:56

just shooting ourselves in the

51:56

foot. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. doing

52:00

hip hop to the day I die. That's

52:00

the way it goes. I've been

52:06

thinking negativity

52:06

is doing the thing. It's

52:09

creating the thing you're

52:09

worried about. It's that

52:12

negativity. It's yeah, I mean,

52:12

it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

52:15

Exactly. Right.

52:17

Yeah. It's

52:17

a self fulfilling prophecy. It's

52:19

like, it's like in any

52:19

relationship. If you're worried

52:22

about that person leaving you?

52:22

Well, you're gonna, you're gonna

52:25

worry them out the door. Yeah, I

52:25

gotta push him right out. You're

52:28

gonna push him right out. So

52:28

there you go. There's our

52:30

there's our profound words of

52:30

the day from Don and Susie.

52:34

So, brilliant. You're welcome.

52:37

We are terrific.

52:38

You're welcome. But that's because we love you.

52:41

And that's because

52:41

love is powerful. Love is

52:44

contagious, and love conquers

52:44

all. So we so appreciate you

52:48

watching, listening. Please

52:48

subscribe. Also, Susan, we're

52:53

working on something pretty

52:53

important. And that is No

52:55

Country for Old people. And

52:55

we're still looking for that.

52:59

That push to get us over the

52:59

edge. So if you if you want to

53:03

be part of our movement, please

53:03

go to our GoFundMe and help

53:07

support the production of this

53:07

very, very important film. See

53:12

you next time.

53:21

Hey, this

53:21

is Susie singer Carter. And I

53:23

just wanted to take a minute to

53:23

talk to you about bed sores. I

53:26

know but if you're like I was

53:26

you probably don't have a clue

53:29

what a bed so really is. Most

53:29

people don't. I mean, no one

53:33

told me and I really just

53:33

assumed it was part of the body

53:36

that was like the name says sore

53:36

from lain in one position too

53:40

long. And then if you change the

53:40

position, all better. Wrong.

53:44

That sore is really a euphemism

53:44

for more appropriate names such

53:48

as pressure wound, and to keep

53:48

it as ulcer. Unfortunately, I

53:52

discovered what a bedsore really

53:52

was. When my mom was admitted

53:54

into the hospital last year with

53:54

a stage four ulcer, that is the

53:58

worst level, you don't ever want

53:58

that to happen. bed sores can

54:02

develop quickly and worsen

54:02

rapidly and can lead to serious

54:05

health issues, even death if

54:05

they're not properly treated, or

54:09

properly treated. And that

54:09

includes cleaning and dressing

54:11

the wound, but most importantly,

54:11

reducing pressure off the sore

54:15

by frequently changing the

54:15

position of the person off of

54:18

their wounds so it can heal and

54:18

that can mean propping the

54:21

person up 30 degrees to the

54:21

side, far enough to be off the

54:24

lower back, but not too far as

54:24

to be on the side hip where

54:28

there isn't much cushion right

54:28

between the skin and the bone.

54:31

This is why I'm so excited to

54:31

tell you about bedsore rescue,

54:34

which was designed by an amazing

54:34

woman when jewel a nurse who was

54:38

tired of fooling around with

54:38

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54:41

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54:41

are rescue positioning wedge

54:44

cushions are uniquely designed

54:44

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54:48

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54:48

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54:52

touching the sore and the

54:52

curvatures and bilateral angles

54:55

make it possible for the bedside

54:55

cushion to be used to support

54:58

many other body parts as well. You can put the heels you can

55:00

put it under the head, you can

55:03

put it under the arms behind the

55:03

knees, both sides. You can even

55:06

use it as a breakfast in bed

55:06

table, the curvatures of the bed

55:09

so rescue fit the curvatures of

55:09

your person's body and it's made

55:13

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55:13

safeties, and bed bound

55:16

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55:16

and long term care facilities. I

55:20

wish I had it for my mom, I

55:20

really do. So chances are if you

55:23

have a loved one in long term

55:23

care facility, or at your home,

55:27

you may become a pressure injury

55:27

soldier too, but bed sores

55:31

should never never get to stage

55:31

four. And one way to ensure that

55:35

they don't is to make sure that

55:35

as soon as one begins to

55:38

develop, you keep the pressure

55:38

off. You can do that easily with

55:41

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55:41

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55:44

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55:48

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56:01

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56:05

Country for Old people, which

56:05

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56:08

navigating the nursing home long

56:08

term care crisis that literally

56:11

began with an unreported

56:11

untreated pressure wound. So

56:14

take the pressure off yourself

56:14

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56:17

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